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56454751 No.56454751 [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

Pathfinder General /pfg/

What are you going to do now that Paizo has managed to produce a halfway decent gun using archetype?

/pfg/ Link Repository: https://pastebin.com/YLikTing

Current Playtests: https://pastebin.com/vK9njh31

Previous thread: >>56443914

>> No.56454849


Which one was this?

>> No.56454855

I would use it if my group didn't already have a dude with guns as his thing

>> No.56454868

The Gun Chemist from People of the Wastes.

>> No.56454890

I'll note that the Gun Chemist is perfect for a tiefling; it requires nothing so much as high dexterity and intelligence (Favoring intelligence) and has charisma as a dump stat. Tieflings also have a Racial FCB that improves bomb damage.

So that's my plan.

>> No.56455002

Any advice on making a more caster-y Hedgewitch? All I ever hear about is the melee builds.

>> No.56455015


gallows fixed

>> No.56455085
File: 61 KB, 900x454, fantasy gun user.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

>What are you going to do now that Paizo has managed to produce a halfway decent gun using archetype?

Struggle as I now have ANOTHER character I want to play, but at least now it would fit the next game my GM wants to run, which has the potential for commonplace firearms and "alchemist with a gun" fits the goofy "magitech-punk" aesthetic he might be going for. The archetype itself looks like it needs a few minor tweaks (why does it keep poison use what the fuck), but those tweaks will be easy to ask about, so I'm stoked.

>> No.56455174

If I'm not mistaken, it's an Alchemist that uses poison bullets. Poison Use seems like it'd be helpful.

>> No.56455288
File: 52 KB, 600x318, Skeleton Skritch.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

>If I'm not mistaken, it's an Alchemist that uses poison bullets. Poison Use seems like it'd be helpful.
It doesn't explicitly use "poison bullets" though? It uses explosive bullets, though Pitted Bullets do exist.

>it trades away fast poison and all the other poison resistance stuff which implies it DOESN'T want to use poisons
>it doesn't say anything about poison immunity, but that's presumably folded into the resistance block
>on the flipside, with pitted bullets, an alchemical cartridge, and Cartridge Savant, one could extrapolate adding to the poison DC if they really stretch
I don't know how to take it, to be honest. I'd still consider it more a "explosive bullet" archetype though, and think swapping out Poison Use for something would make more sense for it. I'll have to spend some time fiddling with it before I make any final decisions, the potential new game is still months away.

>> No.56455308

Okay /tg/, need to know how badly I and my group deserved what happened here:
>another player offers to GM on the side so I can take a break from it
>sounds good, I make a wizard cause I never get to play wizard
>other players want me to play fighter/barbarian
>say no because I am sick of being the martial cuck, and I say we'll be fine without one
>party is rogue, cleric, sorcerer, and wizard
>first session goes pretty well
>second session, we go to retrieve dagger from some goblins, find 5 in the woods
>there are only 3 of us this time (the cleric isn't feeling well)
>I have 2 sleep spells prepared
>manage to sneak up on goblins
>rogue sneaks up, throws dagger
>rolls a 2
>gets hit repeatedly despite 19 AC
>goes to 0
>I cast sleep because it might be my only chance to save him
>he fails his save, all three of the goblins pass
>send my owl familiar to peck him awake
>meanwhile one of the goblins charges the sorcerer and gets 2 crits on him
>I cast sleep again, 3 gobbos fall asleep
>now have no level 1 spells
>goblins start shooting at me
>sorcerer goes down
>goblin hits me with arrow reduces me to 2 hp
>also world is constant rain so all ranged attacks get -4
>but I have 11 AC
>realize I cannot run far enough and I am about to die like a bitch
>charge with staff because it's the only thing I have a positive modifier to hit with in this fucking rain
>even daze is basically useless because there are too many of them
>roll a 2 to hit
>say fuck it and run for my life
>rest of party gets pissed at me for not playing a fighter, and saying we should go into combat
>sorcerer doesn't even have sleep, just magic missile and burning hands
>I craft a sleep scroll for him to cast when we go back but he says he's done with playing for the day so we leave off the session there
>everyone seems asshurt because we had to run away due to shitty luck
Is this my fault? Or just bad luck?

>> No.56455349
File: 225 KB, 960x746, 58ffbad5fd249eb65bac2a3eaedb3724.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

How would a Mystic Theurge do for a Summoning build? Sure the spell level progression sucks compared to going purely into one class, but you also have more spell slots. Granted I guess there's not much point in doing MT when so many classes can summon more than enough with certain archetypes.

>> No.56455350

>rusty dagger shanktown

>> No.56455357

If you want to 'summon' shit just play a summoner you dumb idiot

>> No.56455392


Oh, sorry, I'd actually gotten it mixed up with Toxic Sniper. Don't know what I was thinking.

>> No.56455415

Gee, I sure hadn't thought of that. Real glad you pointed that out to me Captain F. Obvious.

>> No.56455417

Is there a pdf of Ultimate Wilderness up?

>> No.56455430
File: 160 KB, 1192x792, Alchemist mutagen.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

Because there's almost a dozen Alchemist archetypes that give up Poison Use, and players might want to combine this archetype with them.

>> No.56455463
File: 68 KB, 700x700, 1432259490310.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

>DHB actually app'd for North High

>> No.56455489

Apparently you hadn't because you made that dumb fucking post

>> No.56455500

Why do you care?

>> No.56455509

Well I'm glad you took your sweet time to point that fact out.

>> No.56455521
File: 532 KB, 893x768, Thinking Favaro.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

Which of those archetypes would even stack though? How many of them ONLY give up poison use and not some fragment of the resistance portion? How many of them don't touch bombs, Brew Potion, Throw Anything, or swift poisoning, in addition to that? Ctrl+f on Nethys puts there at a whopping 20 archetypes that trade out poison use, I'll have to get back to you on how many of those (and which ones) stack. Hopefully at least one does, though the chances of it being worth taking might be slim.

>> No.56455527

You're welcome faggot

>> No.56455625

What do you gestalt with an inquisitor?

>> No.56455644

Something else wisdom based, maybe cleric, UC monk, or ranger.

>> No.56455679

If I was thinking about initiating, would it be better to take something like warder, or do the archetype, and take something like maybe soulknife?

>> No.56455685

Monk, maybe fighter? Perhaps a Barbarian? If 3pp is on the table, then Ordained Defender Warder, Stalker, Mystic, Medic, and Guru all make excelent choices because Wisdom synergy.

>> No.56455711

Le OD/ZS warder meme

>> No.56455721
File: 211 KB, 1244x836, PF - Imrijka Buying In.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

That depends on what you want to play, and what the group needs.

>> No.56455726
File: 161 KB, 1200x724, Goofus_gallant_infowars.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

>Upgrading a magic weapon with plain ol' +N enchantments.
Goofus or Gallant?

>> No.56455751

Also! Pathwalker Psywar prestiging into Awakened Blade. Because Psywars can do that.

>> No.56455756
File: 13 KB, 164x276, Marceline Worried.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

Alright, a quick look, and out of 20 archetypes which replace Poison Use, only Mindchemist and Oenopion Researcher can stack with Gun Chemist. Mindchemist is a pretty good one for you though, since you'll likely want to pump your Int anyway for that sweet sweet gun damage, but Oenopion Researcher looks kind of awful unless you just want to chuck your mutagen at allies. Losing Swift Alchemy hurts since you'd really want to be able to quickly make your bullets and shit.

Two out of TWENTY that replace Poison Use. There's still a shitload of archetypes besides that, but most of them don't stack and I can't think of any offhand you would WANT to stack.

>> No.56455757

At certain levels a caster can learn a new spell in exchange of an old one, can you do this with cantrips?

>> No.56455760

Hunter if you don't mind keeping track of two spell lists.
I'm playing a Hunter | Sanctified Slayer/Preacher Inquisitor and it's great.
Shared Outflank with the animal companion means you hardly ever feel the problems of 3/4 BAB, you get good progression on all 3 saves, and you can buff yourself basically all day with how many spells you get.
The only really problem is the d8 hit die with only medium armor making you a little frail, but you can do a lot of damage to make up for it.

>> No.56455775

That's the ordained defender warder right? With zweihander sentinel? Why is that a meme?

Divine fighter with a silver tongue was the basic idea, but beyond that I hadn't thought. Most of my group hasn't decided either, so it's probably fine with whatever.

What are medic and guru? I don't see those on the srd.

>> No.56455777

It's the smartest way of spending those +s unless you need something specific for your build

>> No.56455785

Has anyone had experience with the Troop creature type? Going to do some larger combat but want to ideally use something more abstract for units of troops. Does it work well for this kind of thing? I know it was specifically created for this but asking more whether or not it's actually any good. Is there any better alternatives (1PP or 3PP)?

>> No.56455787

People throwing around gold pieces like those things were candy drives me up the fucking wall.

>> No.56455793

>Why is that a meme?
OD/ZS is considered to be much stronger than base Warder, since it trades so little away to get so much in return.

>> No.56455798

OD/ZS warders are objectively superior to normal warders in every way and there's no reason not to be one

>> No.56455800

It's a meme because it's really good and is used incredibly frequently.

>> No.56455807

>app is literally ‘demon in my left arm’
What the fuck.

>> No.56455812

They're both DSP classes. Guru should be on the Akashic Mysteries part of the SoP wiki, Medic is in it's own separate PDF, which might be in the trove.

>> No.56455823

That's what we all do in my group when we're trying to get some information from a bartender or something like that. Usually around 10gp

>> No.56455833

Its DHB. This is literally what he does.

>> No.56455844

Is that bad for an archetype to be always better? Don't people do that with some magus and barbarian archetypes?

>> No.56455852

If an archetype is always 100% better than it has failed at the purpose of being an archetype. They're supposed to be sidegrades, not upgrades.

>> No.56455856

It isn't. But some people get butthurt about being outshone when they intentionally pick bad choices.

>> No.56455870

This looks exactly the same?

>> No.56455878

It's the smartest, but also the most boring and most minmax-e dealio, so gallant wouldn't do it because he is an upstanding citizen who'd choose flavor fitting his character without crippling himself.

>> No.56455883

Yes, and most of them are just this but slightly different which irks me more. I Like them much better when they change the playstyle completely

>> No.56455888

>Don't people do that with some magus and barbarian archetypes?
The difference is that Warder is a pretty good standalone class capable of a good deal of variety in its niche, and the magus is a steaming pile of shit. Barbarian I dunno though.

>> No.56455895

Thousand dollars is a lot of dough hombre. That information better be vital.

>> No.56455907

Dude, there's always like 40 homebrew archetypes here for """""Fixing""""" shit classes like the kineticist. Sometimes shit is just better because it's needed or, get this, more fun. Warder in all honesty should have been designed to use two handers as its base, with a dedicated shield archetype. That way it plays into the normal paradigms that pathfinder uses, while also creating a design space for shields to be more than just the shit ac and gimmicks for Iron Tortoise they are.

>> No.56455927

>implying PoW needs fixing outside of deleting its garbage balance and starting over again

>> No.56455930


>> No.56455933

Shields need fixing.

>> No.56455944
File: 24 KB, 660x641, smuge rabite.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

today i will remind them

>> No.56455961

I know, but outside character creation, nobody in my group cares about anything under one gold. So just look at it like inflation doing its wonders

>> No.56455999

You did nothing wrong, if they wanted a fighter that badly one of them could've played one.

>> No.56456029

Don't, your summons will always be at least one spell level behind.

>> No.56456054


It's their own fault. If they're so adamant about a tag along martial bitch boi then maybe they should play one. Also I get 'playing what you like' but perhaps trying to be a suboptimal character right out the gate (aka the 'blasting' Sorc) isn't exactly advisable on your friends part. From the looks of things, the Sorc didn't do shit in that fight and without your sleep spell you'd have probably all died.

>> No.56456114

True. And while Spell Synthesis would be a fun way to cast Summon Monster twice in one turn, that's a lot of levels before that actually happens.

Honestly I've just been tempted to try a MT lately. Thought about using Elder Mythos Cultist Cleic, maybe combining that with Sorcerer, but even then I'm unsure what kind of spells to snag.

>> No.56456121

What if there aren't any enchantments that really fit the flavor of your character? Wouldn't not having a nice to hit/damage bonus cripple you more if you take it in exchange for some bullshit """fluff"""".

>> No.56456139

Someone give me the skinny on the new DHB app.

>> No.56456150

There are so many different enchantments that the notion of "not finding one that fits your fluff" is frankly absurd.

>> No.56456167

No it's not, honestly. I hate most of the weapon enchantments out there from a purely fluff perspective.

>> No.56456184


How would you fake your own death?

>> No.56456186

It's an app. DHB made it.

Skinny enough for ya?

>> No.56456189
File: 1.09 MB, 500x140, 69b.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

Pic related

There's a ton, but most are either far, far too situational to seem smart, or are the standard elemental or alignment ones, which are cool enough. Things like Keen, or the one that gives bonuses while raging are really nice, but sorta limited more by class and build.

>> No.56456190

Then grab furyborn and get that +5 to hit and damage at the cost of a +3 weapon as long as you aren't fighting against mookscicles the entire game.

Well then do as you wish as long as it isn't just because a guide or /pfg/ told you to/not to.

>> No.56456220

Worthless, if you aren't one to shotting enemies you're a failure of a martial anyway.

>> No.56456288

Depends on how much preptime I have and how long I have to stay "dead".
If it's just about quickly playing possum for a few hours, I would throw Magic Jar.
Can't really answer off the top of my head when it comes to other situations.

>> No.56456310

Please help, the Hedgewitch has all the class features I want for a concept but I don't want to melee.

>> No.56456354

How high tier is the smug ojou-sama laugh?

>> No.56456386
File: 401 KB, 617x514, paizo why are you hurting me.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

>notice some of the stuff from villain codex isn't on nethys or the pfsrd
>go to check it, notice that alchemical cartridges that change the damage type of the gun exist!
>they're magical ammunition whose effect is either a +1 or a +6k price tag (160*50 for a full set of ammunition)
>to add insult to injury, the cartridges are also 1.5x as expensive as normal (18 gp vs the 12 of a normal alchemical cartridge)
>there's no way to get an endless supply of a particular ammunition if you buy a full set by RAW, that I know of, so if I bought these things (and had to upgrade them SEPARATELY) I would have to beg a DM to let them be functionally infinite.

god damnit paizo, fuck your shit, I'm making my own alchemical energy damage cartridges, with blackjack and hookers.

>> No.56456392

still waiting on legendary gunslingers to come out

>> No.56456394

If you don't want to Melee it up: pick literally any two traditions that aren't Combat and Charlatanism. If you really want to meme it up, take Academia+Spiritualism

>> No.56456408

Early game? Yes. Anything beyond the point where the average enemy has 80+ health and five times that as the game goes on in a single attack? What are you taking and where can I get it because that shit sounds like the hardest drug on the planet.

>> No.56456442
File: 38 KB, 839x416, THIS HAND OF MINE.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

allow me to extrapolate a little

>> No.56456469

Nah, I want memes.

>> No.56456480

Someone should tell him that size change doesn't work like that, you don't get monster size change stat boosts, you just get the mauler boosts

Enlarge person works the same way.

>> No.56456524

Incorrect. The Mauler Size change gets size bonuses in addition explicitly. What is the point of contention is whether it uses the Monster Advancement Chart or the generic Polymorph Chart. There has been a lot of debate on this. So it's either 24 Str or 28 Str depending on which chart you're supposed to use.

>> No.56456540

> Battle Form (Su)
>At 3rd level, a mauler gains the ability to transform into a larger, more ferocious form and back at will. In battle form, the mauler’s size becomes Medium and the mauler gains a +2 bonus to Strength (this stacks with the normal Strength adjustments for increasing in size).
>(this stacks with the normal Strength adjustments for increasing in size).

>> No.56456544

Wrong. Mauler foxes get 16 STR for that same reason.

>> No.56456546

What is this like level 1? It's always going to be high risk at low levels. Sleep spell got you out alive, you would've been dead as a Fighter.

>> No.56456571
File: 806 KB, 1242x1773, Ultimate Wilderness Familiar Archetypes 03.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

Remember that the Mauler was reprinted in UW with a clarification.

>> No.56456586

According to the designer its supposed to use the polymorph chart.

neat, that settles it

>> No.56456611

Good clarification, I suppose, but nobody will use UW for anything ever.

>> No.56456668

You mean that people are going to discard the entire book just because shifter is a steaming pile of shit? Yes it is, but the books is not a barrel of apples and one rotten shit doesn't spoil the batch.

>> No.56456688

The book is an entire barrel of rotten apples, with a few oranges mixed in that haven't been spoiled as badly. It's shit, sonny.

>> No.56456697

Huh, well looks like DHB is wrong. Still it's a very strong hand. A 24 Strength hand.

>> No.56456723

I don't know why anyone would ever think it used the monster chart unless they were stupid

>> No.56456732 [DELETED] 

...how can the Crawling Hand be a Mauler when the feat says it doesn't get Deliver Touch Spells?

>> No.56456750

I would agree, but I have learned that /pfg/ is full of shit, so I will not.

>> No.56456754

It doesn't normally get Deliver Touch Spells, except if you make it your familiar:
>If you have the familiar class feature, you can choose for your possessed hand to become your familiar, granting it all familiar abilities as normal. If selected as a familiar, your possessed hand grants you a +3 bonus on Sleight of Hand checks.

He's getting a Bloodline familiar with his Bloodrager bloodline and making the hand that familiar so it qualifies.

>> No.56456775

The reasoning would be that it isn't a polymorph effect and that the polymorph chart is essentially only used for the polymorph spell, no shape change spells actually use it either. Also because unless otherwise stated Su abilities are Universal and not any particular school, in this case transmutation.

>> No.56456784

Yeah, just realized that once I kept reading...

>> No.56456796

There is never, ever any time a PC should be using the monster size advancement chart

>> No.56456866

There has essentially never been a time that a PC uses the generic polymorph size change chart either, except for the spell polymorph.

>> No.56457003

Some anon a few weeks ago pointed out a way to qualify for MT with a single level of cleric and five in wizard, some sort of workaround involving familiars and feats to be able to cast one lvl3 divine spell

>> No.56457071

Abuse Full Pouch to have an endless supply of ammo with a higher DC to boot

>> No.56457079

Spirit Whisperer 5 Wizard in order to get access to a Shaman Spirit from Arcane or whatever, which will let them gain a spell of 2nd-3rd level that is cast as a Divine Spell, which means you take a 1 level dip in Cleric or something and boom you're a Theurge.

>> No.56457095

But it IS a polymorph effect now.

>> No.56457108

It is now, so it's clear what you use now. It wasn't clear what you used before.

>> No.56457139

Does... Wow does that even work on magical ammunition, since it's called an alchemical item? It'd require downtime and a bunch of boro beads to stock up at a reasonable rate, but holy shit, so long as you have a single bullet you'd never run out. I think a GM would slap your shit if you actually maxed out a bullet's +1 bonus on top of the normal effects but if you buy the regular shit for your gun and just have a couple bags full of the specialty ammos I might be able to get away with it.

>> No.56457162

Would the Lore Spirit's Arcane Enlightenment spells actually be Divine? Seems like it'd be Arcane since it's gained via a Wizard ability.

>> No.56457174

Arcane Enlightenment specifically says it's cast as a Divine Spell

>> No.56457192

Grab a Rod, then take talents in the more castery sphereres.

What kind of spheres were you thinking of?

>> No.56457233

You're right, I must've skipped over that. So I guess going that route you'd have the respective CLs be Wizard 15/Cleric 11, with 4 more levels to go whichever class? That doesn't sound too bad.

>> No.56457266
File: 116 KB, 401x333, Boner of the year.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

>checking out SoP for the first time in a while
>Hedgewitch animal companion has 6 Int
>companions with more than 3 Int can have any feat their body shape allows
>including Transformation, Basic Magic Talent, and Extra Talent
>mfw you can have an animal companion that transforms into a human and can cast some

This is a dumb idea and probably sub-optimal but I now need to try this, just to see the shenanigans that could ensue.

>> No.56457276

Things to keep in mind:
>There is a Half-Elf ART that lets you get +1 to caster level in two spellcasting classes, if you have two spellcasting classes
>Magical Knack can be put on Cleric to shore up missing CL

This means you can get full CL on Wizard (one spell level behind) and have an end result of Caster levels of Wizard 20 (19 for spell slots) and Cleric 14 (11 for spell slots)

>> No.56457287

>Summoning build
make a Magaambyan Arcanist instead

>> No.56457371

Nature, Death, Alteration, and Mind in roughly that order, going for a classic witchy vibe.

>> No.56457487

Str or Dex for a dual-wielding Stalker going in to the Dragon Fury PC? Brutal Slayer gives up Thrashing Dragon but that can be grabbed again with traits/tradition.

>> No.56457493

Those are good ones

>> No.56457535

strrength. Rippling muscles. Also take stupendous strength and prodigious twf to dual-wield butchering axes/2-hander of choice

>> No.56457540

Right, I was simply going off of level progression. Only real problem I see is having to deal with two different casting stats. I mean you could go Living Grimoire Inquisitor instead of Cleric for pure-Int, but then you're dealing with a weaker spell list.

>> No.56457550

Are there bad ones?

>> No.56457560

Mid Casting is a poor choice for anyone not gishing unfortunately.

>> No.56457567

Yeah it was level 1.

Effectively, we did all die. The GM basically let the rogue crawl over to the sorc and stabilize him, then crawl away while the goblins couldn't see him. Otherwise, I would have been the only one to escape (and even then, the goblin could have shot me like a bitch as I ran).

>> No.56457569


>> No.56457593

Yeah, spheres with DC's tend to be less good if you are midcaster. Some spheres give a way to get full caster, and you can shore up with sphere focus and that trait.

>> No.56457609

In general or for midcasters? Because shape specailization (whatever it's called) can really help.

>> No.56457619

Pretty good even for a Midcaster, since you'll be primarily using it for battlefield alteration and utility
You may lag behind a bit in that, but you'll still be able to have some undead minions to do work for you. Won't be too great for comat though.
Pretty good utility, especially if you have allies that can benefit from you casting it on them.
Might not be too effective due to lower CL, though a Staff should help some with that. May want to focus on only 1-2 different types of effect. Haven't looked at all the new stuff from the Mind book yet though so there might be some options for you there.

>> No.56457629

Some classes do, none of them are Hedgewitch outside triple goddess. But as far as I'm aware there are no talents that do that.

>> No.56457633

stupendous strength? Whats that from?

>> No.56457643

Destruction is shit, unless you optimize it at which point YOU AM BECOME DEATH DESTROYER OF WORLDS.

>> No.56457650

Focused Blast Type Group

Prerequisites: Destruction sphere

Benefit: Choose one blast type group. Treat your caster level as 5 higher for this blast type group. This bonus cannot cause you to have a caster level greater than your HD.

>> No.56457664

I'm well aware, it's just that Hedgewitch's traditions give me class features that fit well with a character concept I have, and I was hoping to optimize it.

Destruction is fine as a one-off if you have a talent to spare, or as a full-on focus, but generally I agree that it's lackluster.

Mind is quite low on my priority list as far as spheres go, it's more for flavor than anything.

>> No.56457680

bloodforge infusions iirc. Barring that either bloodforge 1 or 2

>> No.56457690

Monster Classes: Savage Races I

>> No.56457844

There's also a trait that does the same thing for +2

>> No.56457891

Is there a consensus on butchering axe/fauchard/elven curve-blade/nodachi or is it just pick your favorite?

>> No.56457895

The vast majority of them are made by Paizo though, so they're useless shit.

>> No.56457963

Falcata is highest DPR one keen. Falchion until you have the money for the ioun stone for EWP. Butchering axe is strong early game when you don't have a massive damage modifier to multiply on crits. As you're TWF crit fishing is your best deal and that's why you use the falacata.

>> No.56457965

Butchering axe is great for size-stacking, especially when Akasha (Armory of the Conqueror) and Bloodforge (Powerful Build) are allowed. Psionics (augmented Expansion) help too. Even without all of that it's still good though you have to get the proficiency-granting ioun stone (preferably in a wayfinder or implanted) or a feat.

I think nodachi is better than greatsword but only once static modifiers to damage pass some threshold and crits start to bump your DPR considerably.

>> No.56457988

You're a bitch unless you multi-wield all of them at once.

>> No.56458028

Falcata stays on top even when you can TWF with 2-handed weapons?

>> No.56458042


>Autists fixate over optimal DPR when they'll never get to the point that the differences are even pronounced.

>> No.56458055

Yes, because you're not getting 2-h bonus to damage. even if you're getting 2h damage to damage falcatas can be 2-handed and the point becomes moot.

>> No.56458094

Quads Nodachi is pretty out there though.

>> No.56458131

>DHB’s new character doesn’t have a demon in his right hand
>it has a Moon thing
I feel as if I was lied to.

>> No.56458154

Why is DHB such a colossal faggot? Why doesn’t he just off himself.

>> No.56458205

Why do you people keep bringing him up here? Literally the only time I see him mentioned here is when people moan about whatever stupid shit he's pulling in one of your stupid roll20 games!

>> No.56458209

come on now cabalfags, you can be a little less obvious about your shitposting

>> No.56458226

Okay, I need some math stuff done by people who understand probabilities better than I do. If I have an ability to roll twice on a d20 and take the higher option, how does that factor into the probability of success? Will the increase to my odds of success increase as my bonus changes (in other words, is it a bigger benefit if I'm going against DC X than DC Y)? What kind of static bonus would it be most comparable to?

>> No.56458247
File: 172 KB, 848x1200, DOxERVXUIAAFpnc.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

how do you control your mine impulses of making a total weeaboo snowflake character?

>> No.56458274

Okay, so you stop being such an autistic faggot, and you should be good.

>> No.56458281


IIRC it's worth about +5

>> No.56458282

Why contain it?

>> No.56458300

Cabal has absolutely no problem with DHB or at least nobody there publicly admits to any gripes with him.

Unless you mean "cabal" as in some nebulous group of "people I don't like."

>> No.56458336

By killing myself, because I'm not a huge faggot like you anon.

>> No.56458403

The average dice result of a 2d20 take lowest is 13.82 or so.

The average result for a 1d20 is 10.5

Having a +4 bonus to your attack, on average, is better than a 2d20 drop lowest, not including factors such as "avoiding crit fails" and such.

>> No.56458425

I channel them into making weeaboo campaigns instead

Thanks for the help, and especially for the explanation of the math behind it.

>> No.56458483

I don't. But there are ways that I channel that impulse.

>Use art that isn't blatantly weeaboo. No Touhous, no CLAMP proportions, no lolis.
>Make sure your character has an excuse to be in the setting with the equipment you want. Second-generation immigrant, trained by an expatriate, or whatever else.
>Make them an actual character with flaws, desires, and interests rather than just "muh anime waifu"

>> No.56458510
File: 74 KB, 704x1000, Afro Samurai and Kuma.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

Make him fit into the campaign, and not come from fantasy Japan.

>> No.56458632

What even is akashic stuff? I see people talk about it but never about mechanics.

>> No.56458635

You should be able to find the probability of rolling by taking the probability that you'd roll under a specific threshold twice, then subtracting that from 100%.

>> No.56458671
File: 74 KB, 1400x1070, fh_menu-shugoki_ncsa.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]


Are fat guys with big metal clubs weeaboo?

>> No.56458698

By recognizing I wouldn't enjoy actually playing such a character because weeb characters are generally flat and react to the world in nonsensical ways that would normally result in death. It doesn't fully quell the desire, but it's for the best, I think.

>> No.56458700

I think that's less weeaboo because it's actual japanstuff, not just anime garbage. Still a little weeb, but acceptably so.

>> No.56458751


>> No.56458758

It's the 3.5 Incarnum stuff for PF. Basically you have a pool of points you can bind to your item slots for various effects.

>> No.56458819
File: 538 KB, 935x682, ashigaru.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]


Are peasant footsoldiers with matchlocks weeaboo?

>> No.56458883

Basically the question is

>Is it based off anime/manga


>Is it based off actual japanese history/mythology

One's a weeb, one's not.

>> No.56458887
File: 84 KB, 1000x573, Gunner-girl.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

More like they're the only way to make "common guns" work. Firing lines actually makes a gang of level 1-2 gunslingers a serious threat versus level 5-7 players, which is actually kinda cool, given that's a level when most heroic style characters aren't at serious risk to mobs of enemies that aren't equal or greater level.

>> No.56458910

So guys, what’s your favorite north high app thus far?

>> No.56458943
File: 367 KB, 1920x1080, sIKGE2C.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

Some folks are born, silver spoon in hand


>> No.56458994
File: 121 KB, 500x698, Kuniyoshi_Kuzunoha.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]


Are shapeshifting fox ladies weeaboo?

>> No.56458996

>6 open games at once again

>> No.56458999

>Guns are best against people in full plate because they target touch AC

What the fuck

>> No.56459053

I know. Pathfinder isn't exactly great with historical accuracy.

In fact, it really pisses me off how many GMs ban guns out of hand for being too "modern". Like, bitch, no it's not - guns were first in development before full plate became a thing. There's a shitload of armor that were specifically bulletproofed for exactly that reason, and modern bullets - of the armor piercing variety - may go through metal plate armor, but the medieval shit didn't. Guns should actually target flat footed AC.

>> No.56459058
File: 65 KB, 507x579, 1477385612070.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

DSP's new big power creep with Rajah and Batal.
Fuck those two, they're stronger than a Zealot.

>> No.56459082

>Guns should actually target flat footed AC.
>Fucking over dexfags and earlygame wizards

Dude lmao

>> No.56459092

Between them all there are less apps than any one meme game would have in the Good Ol' Days

>> No.56459129
File: 142 KB, 960x959, ANGER.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

It drives me up the goddamn wall. When was the last time you say someone dodge a damn bullet in real life?

>> No.56459209
File: 83 KB, 384x313, 1510510451770.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

Some are simply born to wear the crown.

>> No.56459239


When my brother realized he should give up on his ex instead of trying to figure out her on-again-off-again relationship hangups.

>> No.56459256

I like you, anon. You've made a shitty day somewhat better.

>> No.56459271

I mean, one could argue it's about prediction, but that's kind of a meme.

>> No.56459281

Wouldn't that make it a wisdom modifier, instead of Dex?

>> No.56459292

The same could be said about Initiative

>> No.56459322

People around here used to shit on Akashic until "totally not overpowered" Rajah came along

basically for all their whining about PoW and shit, /pfg/ just wants to play overpowered characters that are immune to harm

>> No.56459350

What the fuck was DSP thinking when they went "Hmmm, you know the Zealot? We need an even stronger version of that!"

>> No.56459365

When you use Astral Projection, is your soul in the "spirit" that projects, in the body you leave behind, in the silver cord connecting the two, or somewhere else entirely?

>> No.56459369

Go ask the Rajah developer himself. He hangs out in discord.

>> No.56459391

>/pfg/ just wants to play overpowered characters that are immune to harm

Uhh, I can't have my precious snowflake original character ever be at risk of death, anon.

>> No.56459417

>/pfg/ just wants to play overpowered characters that are immune to harm
IS that why people bitched about SoM?

>> No.56459443

The spirit. The silver cord is your connection back to your body.

>> No.56459473

What's with this Rajah hate? Didn't people like it not too long ago? It's not even THAT strong, it has clear weaknesses, as does Radiant Dawn, and the playtest isn't even over yet (though it's probably close to it.) I, for one, really like how useful Rajah can be outside of fights, between good face skills and utility from Heraldries.

>> No.56459548

You can get rid of those weaknesses by being a Batal.
And you don't even have to use Radiant Dawn. Shit, the rajah gets any one discipline free.

Have you seen the bullshit a Batal can do?

>> No.56459615

are you telling be a d6, 1/2 BAB class focused on strikes managed to get broken when they tried to make it not be support-based

>> No.56459628

Ah yes, Radiant Dawn.
"You want free essence for your Armory of the Conqueror? Here, go and take it!"
What the fuck. How come ANYONE can pick up Radiant Dawn for free? What in the fuck.

>> No.56459653


You don't need to bother with full attacks when you can blow away the whole fight with Zenith Strikes, Rapid Strike/Dual Crash/Rapid Current, Reflected Blade Style, Sunstroke, etc. etc.

And I'm still talking about nerfed Sunstroke. The bullshit damage you can do with Ruby Zenith Strike/Rapid Current is insane.

>> No.56459781

It's almost like PoW is terribly unbalanced

>> No.56459807

Probably something along the lines of, "Nobody pays attention to akashic mysteries. We will MAKE them pay attention to akashic mysteries."

>> No.56459935

Rapid Current is multiple attacks. Only the first attack gets the effect of the boost, right?

>> No.56459974

Guess you're right.

I guess it's Rapid Current+Reflected Blade Style or Ruby Zenith Strike+Sunstroke.

Really helps that Rajah gets Cha to Sense Motive, so it's better at Zenith Striking than a zealot.

>> No.56460034

So it's a problem with Scarlet Throne and Shattered Mirror first and with Rajah second. As always, good developers have to deal with mistakes of their predecessors.

>Armory of the Conqueror
Was made by Ssalarn and was a mistake.

>Have you seen the bullshit a Batal can do?
And did you actually see it in action?

>> No.56460088

No, but have you actually seen a Shifter in action?

Also this bugs me but they made the Beast Talisman or whatever it's called that lets wild shapers boost the enhancement bonus on their natural attacks and you know who can't use it? Shifters! You'd think they'd have a little more tact than that, releasing an item for wild shapers that doesn't function on the most recently released wild shaper.

Also did that official hot fix hit yet?

>> No.56460169

Isn't any initiator capable of at least one of these combos?

>> No.56460189
File: 173 KB, 500x649, PZO9067_500.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

So I'm about to run "Reign of Winter" for some friends over the 'net. I know that in itself poses some challenges, but I also want to use it as a test before running it for my IRL gaming group. Any advice/suggestions specific to these adventures on how to handle it?

>> No.56460316
File: 624 KB, 800x1200, f94e1c5d0069b766352e9c5367e833ea.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]


>And did you actually see it in action?

I have GMed four battles so far with two 6th-level batals in the party. One was a Dexterity batal with the the sword of the sun king for great amounts of automatic damage. The other was a lion catfolk Strength batal with a Large butchering axe and a 3-essence Armory of the Conqueror with least akashic catalysts; they also had the sword of the moon queen for high movement speed and obnoxious AC. They were playing alongside a vanilla, unarchetyped rajah.

I can safely say that the batal is significantly stronger in a fight than the regular rajah, because vassalage's close range is inconvenient to use when everyone wants to rush towards enemies in melee, and titles deactivating outside of close range is such a bother too.

All three rajahs were restricted to Radiant Dawn as their only discipline available. Despite this, all three rajahs were incredibly powerful, and the batals were even stronger and less restricted by the regular rajah's weaknesses.

I have also seen a zealot in play in a previous high-optimization game, and that zealot made liberal use of martyrdom. With this in mind, I would take a rajah (batal) over a zealot any day of the week from 1st- to 7th-level. At 8th-level, it would be a closer contest between a rajah (batal) and a destruction zealot, but that alone speaks great things of the batal.

Veils and essence are quite powerful.


The rajah has more convenient access to overloading an Armory of the Conqueror with its built-in essence (and, later, regality at 10th level), and using Charisma for Sense Motive certainly puts it a step ahead of a zealot for zenith strikes. Furthermore, since a rajah has access to any one discipline for free on top of other tradition swaps, it can more easily assemble cheesy combinations than most other initiators.

The veils and binds available to a rajah (which a batal can place on themselves) place them several steps ahead of most other full initiators.

>> No.56460327

Read ahead. Way ahead.
Get used to being the voice of a woman because those are a-plenty in the AP.
It is deceivingly hard for the players, so pull punches of the party is into that. The lodge in the first book is a good example of an infamous TPK spot.
Make 100% sure that the players know what they are getting into. Give them the guide, talk to them and most importantly know how to keep the pace or how to keep up with the PC pace.
Choke your friends if they read ahead in the adventure, for it's really well written and them spoiling themselves to the story and encounters should be punished with a slow death.
And most importantly: Have fun.

>> No.56460341

Where can I find this Gun Chemist? My curiosity has reached an all time high hearing about it

>> No.56460378
File: 128 KB, 1920x1080, 1491208063418.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

>The lodge in the first book is a good example of an infamous TPK spot.
Maybe if your party is total fucking pansies.

>> No.56460380


Ultimate Wilderness, isn't it?

>> No.56460430

Alright, go ahead and explain further and if it's because you had gestalt PB 25 all 3pp allowed no items Fox only then your argument shall be disregarded and placed into the bin designated for it in the corner.

People of the Wastes.

>> No.56460491

Was there pages posted by leakanon? I wanted to take a look at the archetype

>> No.56460521

Think it was a thread or two ago. You'll need to scavenge them yourself, young anon. It is your test and your destiny to do so. Sometimes called testiny,

>> No.56460556

That's pretty fair. I'd say the addition of veils is more the problem, then. It's added gravy to something that's already initiating. Pulling cheese from multiple sources like AotC and Zenith is likely suffering as well. Thanks for the analysis.

>> No.56460565

Awesome just found it. What did I win? Where's my damn Lambroghini?

>> No.56460621

You win enlightment, peace of mind and a year's supply of free toast delivered as one giant ball of dough rolled through your door at midnight of the next thursday

>> No.56460656

So Rajah's main problem that it allows you to mix akashic cheese (Armory) with PoW cheese (Zenith strikes, RBS etc.) while retaining relatively high out-of-combat utility.

I think that being able to easily swap disciplines around was a mistake. It makes it so that every discipline has to be designed with every other discipline and class in mind, quickly leading to combinatorial hell and people being able to pull unexpected combinations off. Adding veils into the mix makes it worse.

All that said, I would still take Rajah over something like Warlord any day and not because it's stronger but because it's simply way more interesting.

>> No.56460674

>Alright, go ahead and explain further and if it's because you had gestalt PB 25 all 3pp allowed no items Fox only then your argument shall be disregarded and placed into the bin designated for it in the corner.
I fuckin lold

>> No.56460712

What happened, did I lose? Those aren't prizes, I can't ride any of those to work or used to pay the bills.
Gun Chemist is pretty dope.

>> No.56460758

Well suck it up, because in Who Wants to be the Owner of Mental Stability and a Giant Ball of Dough those are the only prices. Maybe you can invest into getting a member of Cirque de soleil to teach you how to balance on it so you can roll it down the streets to your work.

>> No.56460762

Swapping disciplines is nice because it lets you pick and choose flavor, but I wouldn't say that it's the swapping that's at fault, more that the combos could ever happen. There's plenty of maneuvers that should have been one or two levels higher, if not out right written out. Also Warlord is just boring to be honest.

>> No.56460869

>Gun Chemist is pretty dope.
It really is. I've been playing a grenadier up to this point, and my GM is letting me redesign my character because of just how fucking nice it is, including the fact that there's finally a gun using archetype that isn't horseshit.

I expect it to be nerfed within two months, but i will ride that time out as long as possible.

>> No.56460903

How do zenith strikes interact with critical hits?

When it says double damage does that mean effectively a x2 crit, rolling and adding modifiers twice, and critting with an x2 weapon would make the total damage tripled?

>> No.56460919

Zenith Strikes cannot crit, because they are skill checks, not attack rolls.

>> No.56460955

>Gun Chemist is pretty dope.
It's really fucking nice, though I'm still of the opinion its unjam ability should work like the actual quick-clear (clear as a standard for free, spend a use to clear as a move) and that it should replace Poison Use with LITERALLY ANYTHING ELSE. Can't have it all without houserules though.

>I expect it to be nerfed within two months
As soon as it hits the PFSRD I'm saving a copy of it to GDocs as-is, but I highly doubt it'll get anything but a ban from PFS unless it gets reprinted in a mainline book.

>> No.56461089

Grenadier was my first alchemist and after that I stuck to it but basically replaced the rogue in terms of scouting and skill monkeying. Never tried the psudo barbarian route because it never appealed to me. But now with this boomstick archetype, it's going to be a ton of fun.
The only thing missing now grit
And Cartridge Savant is fucking boss.

>> No.56461129
File: 1.58 MB, 1698x2904, Half-orc_marksman.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

My answer to missing Grit is taking amateur Gunslinger. Sure, it's not as good, but at least it gives you Quick Clear if you really need it, or one of a bunch of other deeds if you're not concerned about Quick Clear

>> No.56461134
File: 46 KB, 633x323, 1474113366760.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

>warlord is nerfed to hell
>they push out the batal, which is warlord++++++ and stronger than zealot

Th-This is balance in a way... right?

>> No.56461154

>The only thing missing now grit
Nothing would break if you could get Int-based Grit as a discovery

>> No.56461203
File: 328 KB, 420x360, 1350337551276.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

I don't know anymore, man. This shit is whack, but I still find it the most fun to use from a mechanics perspective. Changing things up round to round just feels better.

>> No.56461250

You can Share Spell an Enlarge Person on it too, and with the draconic sorcerer bloodline you can give it flight.

This sounds like a perfect villain monster though.

>> No.56461319

Warlord's problem isn't that it's nerfed, it's that it's bland and generally uninteresting. Gambits were a neat idea but they are too easy to pull off and aren't even a serious risk.

>> No.56461376

Let's see what stacks here.
Gun Chemist replaces: Weapon and Armor proficiencies, Bombs, Brew Potion, Throw Anything, Poison Resistance, and Swift Poisoning. Poison Immunity is technically part of the Poison Resistance ability, and discoveries are actually unmodified by this archetype.

For class features remaining we have: Alchemy, Mutagen, Poison Use, Swift Alchemy, Persistent Mutagen, Instant Alchemy, and Discoveries.

So for stacking archetypes we have:
>Alchemical Trapper (Kobold archetype)
>Bramble Brewer (Half-Elf archetype)
>Crimson Chymist
>Dimensional Excavator
>Inspired Chemist
>Mad Scientist
>Oenopion/Visionary Researcher
>Saboteur (Gnome archetype)
>Sacrament Alchemist
>Winged Marauder (Goblin archetype)

>> No.56461452
File: 696 KB, 1553x1200, goblin_thief_by_cribs-d5jcwl6.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

I completely forgot about Amateur Gunslinger, thanks for that. I also dig your pic there. Character concept I'm guessing? I'll stick to my goblin scumbag rogu- I mean alchemist.
Good ol' smoke-sticks/thunderstone breach and clears, now with guns!

Man that would be awesome. I'll consider asking him about this, I'll just keep my fingers crossed

>> No.56461475

>Winged Marauder (Goblin archetype)
Don't goblins have that one feat that lets them use guns as if they were a size larger? Might be worthwhile.

>Character concept I'm guessing?
Surprisingly no, just something I grabbed out of the drawthread something like two years ago. My actual character is being done up by someone in the current drawthread.

>> No.56461591

I'd be more interested personally in the shenanigans you could get up to with poisoned bullets as a Toxicant.

>> No.56461627
File: 200 KB, 1014x1014, Hut.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

-For some godforsaken reason, the first book involves a series of like ELEVEN 'random' encounters trudging through the snow, separated only by a short boss fight. Skip some or do something to sort it out to prevent it from being deeply boring.
-The AP is obsessed with throwing romantic interests at the party. Between the first two books alone there's like four or six. If players want to bring them along- and they probably will since they'll never return ingame- then there can be issues.
-Get the PCs used to the fact that the AP is on the move. First you're in Taldor then for one and a half books you're in Irrisen and then you never return.
-As written, the game occurs over a really short time period IC. By my calculations, at an average speed, a party can be expected to complete the entire AP within 28 in-game days. This messes up people with crafting. Keep this in mind.
-The AP has a ridiculous amount of dungeon-clearing. I know most APs are this, but it feels even more so like it with Reign. Looking through the books, so much of it is 'go here and fight through this and then you're done'. Write some additional, overarching story to keep the players interested, maybe relating to their backstories. Also consider adding in some noncombat challenges.

>> No.56461635

>Man that would be awesome. I'll consider asking him about this, I'll just keep my fingers crossed
I'm honestly tempted about asking my DM about a bunch of stuff, but it'll have to be way later. Dropping Poison Use for ANYTHING I'd take Quickdraw, even, not having to suffer the Infusion or Point-Blank tax, and having the ghetto quick clear work like the real one are up there though.

>> No.56461757

What if it's combined with an ally's Butterfly Sting feat?

>> No.56461769

Nope. It's still a skill check, and a skill check cannot crit.

>> No.56461940
File: 464 KB, 500x338, 1393726134545.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

>tfw you houseruled something in favor of your player and then when he DMs and you ask to do the same thing he houserules the opposite way

I mean it's not like I did it because I expected a "you scratch my back I scratch yours" deal but it just feels kinda rude. Why would someone do something as a player that they wouldn't let someone else do as a GM, except for if they felt like they were getting away with doing something they knew they shouldn't?

>> No.56461959

Dont make the three fairies use color spray at the same time.

>> No.56462011

What items and spells are useful to an assassin (not necessarily of the class assassin)?

>> No.56462052

When do you begin to get magical items?

>> No.56462082

anachronisms in fantasy settings is pure trash.

>> No.56462143

You take that back!

But seriously I think they can be done well. Maybe not an anachronism in a traditional sense, but if it's really a part of a setting instead of just "look they have magitech cars and cell phones!" it can work. You have to actually give consideration to how it would affect the world though, and at that point maybe it's no longer appropriate to call it an anachronism, at least as most people understand the term.

>> No.56462173

Slumber Hex from Witch if you can go undetected.

>> No.56462181

I'd like to point out that when WW1 rolled around, there was still people doing cavalry charges on horseback, in spite of the fact that there were tanks on the field. There's also what we can basically call "Barbarian tribes" in several parts of the world even to this day.

The real world is anachronistic.

>> No.56462184

He's wrong by RAW, but he's fine by Chargen.

>1pp things - Nerfs from Ultimate Wilderness reprints will not be in play.

I think this would count as that?

>> No.56462198

How can you have anachronisms for a world that never happened?

>> No.56462255
File: 46 KB, 768x576, Safe-House-Mace-Sowell-1.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

How would you pull a safeguard method like, "if you kill me, I will release all I know to the public and court" or something like that?

>> No.56462338

Who makes the best bankers?

>> No.56462375

Jews, typically.

>> No.56462392



>> No.56462397


Centaurs. I know, it surprised me too, but they have a solid grasp of economics.

>> No.56462399

Clerics of Abadar

>> No.56462528

Jewish Half-elf Centaurs Clerics of Abadar

>> No.56462567

As someone from the cabal I can confirm: Yeah, nobody there actually dislikes DHB, or if they do they're completely silent on the matter when (if) he comes up. We bitch about Rory and Vult, and really who doesn't?

>> No.56462570
File: 144 KB, 1126x593, study.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

It's a thankless job.

>> No.56462598

Are those supposed to be her arms she's reading her head on, or her boobs?

>> No.56462608

>bitching about Anachronisms
>but still likely to have a Rapier-wielding rogue in a pseudo-medieval setting when they weren't invented until the mid-Renaissance

>> No.56462645

I'd imagine trying to sleep on your tits like that gets uncomfortable after a bit. Or at the very least waking up wouldn't be pleasant.

>> No.56462653

Contingency + Teleport Object, with the object teleported being a container with the documents to be delivered to the public or court.

>> No.56462671

Why is everyone hating on the Batal all of a sudden?

>> No.56462672


>> No.56462673

I thought the cabal loved Vult.

>> No.56462741

Bibba, they kicked him out months ago.

>> No.56462771

I'm pretty sure you always start knowing all cantrips, there'd be no point in trading them.

>> No.56462781

because it's a meme to join the hating PoW bandwagon at any opportunity.

>> No.56462820

Because 2hu shows up once a thread or so to bitch about it.

>> No.56462831

The fuck did he do that was bad enough for that? I mean I don't like him, but I assumed he was way more chill with them.

>> No.56462861

You don't as a sorcerer; wizard is the only class that knows all cantrips, to the best of my knowledge.

Yes, you can swap cantrips.

>> No.56462878

I want to play a Ghoran character, but for reasons I'm not yet sure, it feels like a terrible idea.

>> No.56462905

>all this denial that rajah (Batal more so) isn't overloaded

Yes please I would like a shitload of veils and essence and noncombat utility on top of my full initiator.

>> No.56462978

Then go bitch to DrowAnon/Shoka, faggot. Oh, wait, I bet you didn't at all before and never even looked at it, and have only started bitching because other people are talking about it, aren't you?

>> No.56463006

God no, the dude is a racist fuck who thinks he's better than everyone else despite clearly having no clue how PF actually functions (being a 5e-er instead; nothing inherently wrong with that, but he very obviously doesn't know how the math differences are so major).

>> No.56463030

>vult is racist
I think you need to back that claim up with some evidence, buddy boy.

>> No.56463038

>being this much of a caster fag

>> No.56463051

>People while at PoW not having out of combat anything
>Then people whine when Rajah has out of combat stuff


>> No.56463065

Tell me EVERYTHING that's wrong with the shifter. My system mastery is shit and I want to make sure I'm not Ivory Towering my poor ass if I play it.

>> No.56463126

We were asking for classes that were strong in combat and also decent at noncombat.

Not classes that were fuckoff strong in combat (like full initiators usually are), even STRONGER because of veils, and with a heaping of noncombat as a cherry on top.

>> No.56463133

>implying that rajahs aren't casters

>veils are magic and can be dispelled like magic
>almost all of their class features are (Su)
>they get spells like Tears to Wine

Rajahs are casters in disguise.

>> No.56463143
File: 387 KB, 800x533, moose.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

The problem is that it has NOTHING that cannot be done BETTER by two other classes.

The Shifter has the following: Full BAB, 4+ skills, d10 Hit Dice, animal aspects (3+level in minutes per day), wildshape, claws.

the Feral Hunter archetype for the ranger has all of this, save for the class, full BAB, and d10 HD. It makes up for these faults by having weapon proficiencies that the shifter lacks, spell buffs to make up for the BAB and Hd loss, and animal aspects that last permanently rather than a limited duration per day. It is equivalent in power as far as wildshaping goes. Hunters also have 6+ skill points, and a greater range of skills to use.

Druid has the same BAB and HD as Feral Hunter,, superior spellcasting, and wildshape only a single level later. In exchange, it gets a slew of ribbon abilities, and even better spellcasting than Feral Hunter, going all the way up to 9th level. this isn't even getting into the fact that being a druid gives you an animal companion, which if used correctly can add a near PC-equivalent melee combatant onto the field, making you one and a half characters outright.

As far as the claws go? they have a far, far shittier unarmed strike mechanic than even the monk has (as Monk has Flurry of Blows and full BAB if you're playing unchained), lack iteratives, and don't have even the damage of monk unarmed strikes, making them inferior in every way. Monk also has a an equivalent "wisdom to AC" mechanic, making it superfluous on the Shifter.

The reason the Shifter is bad isn't that it does nothing. It's the fact that it does absolutely nothing that other classes don't do better and lacks the supplementary mechanics that make those initial mechanics work. It is, in fact, worse than vanilla rogue.

>> No.56463163

Something worth noting that I forgot to mention: Druid and Feral Hunter aren't limited in their selection of animal forms when they wildshape, while the Shifter is. In this game, versatility is power, and having the ability to choose what you transform into is immense. In particular, Shifter has no aquatic shapeshifting options, which is a massive oversight, but Druid and Feral Hunter can pull one of those out of their ass on the fly.

>> No.56463297

>Arrow Champion downgrades all relevant Swashbuckler talents
>It's the best Swashbuckler archetype
fucking bows

>> No.56463358

How would you change it?

>> No.56463442

He decided to get into a fight with Broodie.

>> No.56463447

I'm not sure about the racist part but the superiority complex he has is fucking unreal.

>> No.56463659

I really like the original 3 akashics. The only flaw was they needed more veil choices that granted abilities as a base rather than a bind. I dont get why a pow veil hybrid is a class, shouldnt that be a prestige thing?

>> No.56463703

The devs said they didnt want to outshine the fighter. They then pointed out how druids already outshine fighters, but that was different because it was "hidden". This is bullshit, no druid player reads "I get to be a bear and have a pet lion" and doesnt realize how good thats is, its not a sekrit optimization trick.

>> No.56463745

To be honest, if you're using "weaker than fighter" as your balance point, you're doing something HORRIBLY wrong. ESPECIALLY if it's core fighter.

>> No.56463768

There's also the fact that a number of other characters out there can get extra bodies on the field, plus their own optimization. Summoner in particular is the epitome of that; I've never met someone that hasn't realized that summoning is kinda bullshit powerful.

>> No.56463804

Its crazy too because fighters get multiple 2hander attacks or bow bullshit so shifters would even if they were good need optimization to beat a fighter in damage or ac.

>> No.56463962

I mean isn't that the thing?

Shapeshifting isn't necessarily meant to be 'do the most damage' it's about having weird abilities and shit.

>> No.56463976

Exactly, meaning in super retarded player groups fighters would still shine even if shifters were 5 times as powerful.

>> No.56464026
File: 239 KB, 823x962, Greatsword_Warrior.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

The first character I ever made, way back when I was like fourteen and got invited to my first DnD 3.0 campaign, was me making a human fighter with power attack, cleave, and great cleave, to be used while wielding a greatsword.

Even stupid players with absolutely no system mastery tend to play optimized fighters, just because "oh, that increases damage. That's cool" is such a common reaction, and the greatsword is clearly a superior weapon to most.

>> No.56464168

Nearly every greatweapon, greatclub, greataxe, greatsword just werks. It just does.
On the subject of rajah, nearly every archetype for a psionic or casting class in pow trades away casting/manifesting. Pow is designed so that to hybridize those systems you take a prestige like bladecaster. Pathwalker is the exception forsome reason I think? I really think rajah should drop veils, instead just using essence, like zealot uses pp but doesnt manifest.

>> No.56464189

>I really think rajah should drop veils
Do you even know how the fucking class works?

>> No.56464208

No but if anyone said an arcane 6caster 6initiator existed I would suggest they stop outright, redesign their whole concept.

>> No.56464238

soooo rubato?

Like i agree rajah and all of that entire new discipline are retarded but so are you

>> No.56464262

Des someone have a link to the Rajah? I'd like to look it over myself.

>> No.56464336

Rubato gives up casting.

>> No.56464341

Rubato doesn't have spellcasting

How you gonna call people retarded when you say shit like this

>> No.56464343


disregard that, i'm the retarded one here

>> No.56464376

That's more a sign you don't know how veils work. There's no 'full veilweaver' or 'half veilweaver'.
Akashic mysteries already has a full bab focused veilweaver as well, so veil using =full casting makes no sense.

>> No.56464380


As others have said the Rubato loses spellcasting. It's only the Polymath and Warpath followers that keep 6/6, though to be honest I think they lose too little for their progression. It events out if you give the likes of the Myrmidon, Knight Disciple etc full 1 - 9 manoeuvre progression (if you're playing PoW anyway then you might as well). It's not like the base of those classes are so powerful compared to the Warder/Warlord that they deserve such a restriction.

>> No.56464459

The Dread nightmare gets 6/6 manifesting and initiating. Also I'm pretty sure there's an alchemist archetype that can initiate.

How is initiating and veils considered overpowered exactly? I haven't been following the akashic stuff, but last I checked veils were pretty underwhelming for anything but dealing damage.

>> No.56464646

>the Feral Hunter archetype

Honestly this is the 'shifter' class as far as I'm concerned if you're restricted (or don't want to) to not playing 9th level casters. Few replacement feats for the summon pack shit (or at least doing something to make it slightly better) and you're good to go. No '''Shifter''' class needed.

>> No.56464967

>last I checked veils were pretty underwhelming for anything but dealing damage

Hoooooooooooooooooo boy, you haven't seen the rajah veils.

>> No.56465153
File: 1.02 MB, 939x1139, Gnollandhuman.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

Pack Savvy (Social): You have learned how to gain the respect of gnolls in your region, and you know something of their social structure. You gain a +3 trait bonus on Charisma based skill checks when dealing with gnolls.

Nice to see some Gnoll support in People of the wastes even if it is small

>> No.56465176


Stuff like this sounds nice, if situational, but with how the rules are actually written, does this do anything? Say you're in an area with a hostile band of gnolls, unless they decide to talk with you, you can't make diplomacy checks in combat, it takes too long.

Traits like these, and feats for that matter could do with being a bit more vague or something like "Shift the starting attitude of gnolls in X region by one step"

>> No.56465243

again its situatonal but if you have The Diplomacy Skill unlock or http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/call-truce/ you can attempt diplomacy in combat

>> No.56465434

Who uses skill unlocks, honestly?

>> No.56465475

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