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56424936 No.56424936 [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

What is the difference between rice and wheat agriculture? Is one superior to a low tech society?

>> No.56424960

>>56424936
The amount of available standing water.

Rice requires large amounts of water to stand in to germinate and grow,. No standing water, no rice.

>> No.56424966

>>56424960
But in exchange, I think rice bears a much larger harvest than wheat.

>> No.56425063

>>56424936
Rice can be harvested repeatedly from the same paddles and doesn't require crop rotation, gives larger harvest and doesn't require as intensive care as wheat does.
On the other hand, rice requires irrigation.

It's dangerous to go alone, take this.
www.reenactor.ru/ARH/PDF/Adamson.pdf

>> No.56425090

>>56424960
actually, rice doesn't require standing water to grow, but it does grow in it, so it is done that way for weed control

>> No.56425109

>>56425063
Not OP, but which is more versatile as a food though? I know rice and wheat can be made in a variety of other food products, but which has the most variety?

>> No.56425119

>>56425090
nigga you just taught me something

>> No.56425130

>>56424966
by weight, yes
by nutritional value and potential reuse, no
plus, rice patties are a hotbed for parasites, and waterborne illnesses and also rice concentrates arsenic in it.
>>56425063
but, ease of growing is certainly a thing to consider. a few generations of families working the fields will build up immune responses.

OP, i suggest you consider quinoa. Its a grain that is super fucking high in protein and vitamins. is a fucking superfood and about the same difficulty to grow as wheat, but it may require slightly warmer climates.

>> No.56425171

>>56425109
They are pretty similar as far as the function goes.
They both can be used for noodles, bread, cereals, alcohol etc.
The main difference I can name off the top of my head is that rice is only used in flatbreads, while wheat can be used both in flatbread and regular (yeast) bread. Don't quote me on that, though.

>> No.56425172

>>56425109
the largest difference between the two is that rice doesn't contain gluten. Gluten, as a viscoelestic protien, is incredibly important in a ton of baking processes, but that's about it.

>> No.56425224
File: 258 KB, 720x679, bubbies-mochi-3.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
56425224

>>56425172
>>56425171
You can make mochi with rice, which is fucking good shit

>> No.56425304

>>56425224
That's not really unique to rice, as similar wheat delicacies can be made, provided wheat is glutinous enough. The wheat strains required just weren't available until recently (and no one bothers with growing it besides a few Asian countries, because durum is objectively superior), but it's not reaching too far that OP's world might contain such a wheat strain.

>> No.56425440

>>56425119
>>56425090

The ponds that rice are kept in are also part of the reason rice doesn't need to be babied as much: frogs, crayfish, bugs, and other doodads all live, shit, die, etc.. In the rice paddy and cycle a bit of those nutrients.
Some cultures even go the extra mile and DO go through a very basic crop rotation of rice, fish, and shrimp to maximize gains.

>> No.56425445

It has more to do with climate. Rice grows in wetter areas with standing water, where wheat grows in drier climates

>> No.56429154

Where is the flora and fauna more abundant - in a savannah, or in a marsh?
And what are the predominant types of crops one can grow in a savannah or in a marsh?

>> No.56429161
File: 944 KB, 264x320, [Screams externally].gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
56429161

>>56424936
Go back to school

Seriously, what the fuck is even this question? Are you retarded or something?

>> No.56429186

>>56425130
>2017
>Rice has less nutrition than wheat
Anon... Did you get a memo 19th century ended?
Also:
>Produce 6 times more grain
>B-but it has lower calories value
How? You've just produced 6 times more grain, which is inferior in sheer calories-to-weight by about 4%. And 2.5% is the threshold of statistical mistake. So explain to us all how the FUCK producing 5.76 times as much of calories is somehow less than just making 1.

Did you drop out of school just like OP did?

>> No.56429221

>>56429186
But rice grains are small

>> No.56429237

>>56425130
Wheat is the least land efficient grain imaginable. Literally ANYTHING else is better: rice, barley, maize, rye, sorgo... And then there are non-grain plans, that are even better. Nothing depletes soil as fast as wheat does, nothing puts as much water stress on land as wheat does (not even rice!), nothing is this weather-sensitive as wheat does and in the end all those requirements do not translate into any increase of anything at all. Wheat is just awfully wasteful plant that doesn't provide any "bonus" for the strict requirements, long germination and heavy impact on soil degradation.
The only reason why it's still in use is Europeans being used to eating wheat-based products and thus importing wheat-based agriculture all around the world, usually leading to amazing mismanagement and crop failure due to high requirements of wheat and its inability to grow in given situation, while in the same time removing local plants and varieties. By the time anyone wised up enough to notice, it was already 1970s and it was too little too late.

You can get more nutrient from the same area by planting fucking common walnuts than setting up a field of wheat, that's how bad it is at feeding people.

>> No.56429263

>>56429221
Jesus Christ... Not him, but are you seriously this dense? Grain is always accounted in WEIGHT. Meaning the final weight of yearly rice crops weight six times as much as wheat. By the sheer virtue of having 2 or even 3 harvests of rice a year, you can easily outpace wheat. Which is one of the reasons why wheat is so bad - you can only have single harvest of it yearly and it grows for so long you can't plant any other grain, even if the local climate supports multiple harvests.

>> No.56429340

>>56424936
Rice is always superior, but especially in low-tech situation

Rice
>Two harvests per year (can even be three if you are in tropics)
>Can be stored unmilled for decades
>Replanting grants futher increase of yield
>High labour requirement for setting up fields, low maintance
>Relatively easy for winnowing
>Non-machine threshing barely affects grain loss
>Requires only green manure to stop soil degradation

Wheat
>Single harvest per year
>Can be stored only for few years, wheat has shelf life of two decades tops
>Impossible to replant
>High labour requirement for setting up fields, medium maintance
>Requires machines for efficient winnowing
>Non-machine threshing is the main source of grain loss
>Depletes soil in quick succession without heavy fertilization

The only situation where rice is inferior is climate that makes it impossible to grow it. But they you are better off planting barley and rye than wheat, as they come with much higher yields, shorter growth and much slower soil degradation.

>> No.56429353

>>56429154
Depends on the marsh, depends on the savannah.

There are savannahs which are just a rainy day away from being Gardens of Eden, with most of the flora and fauna "sleeping" until such days, and there are some which are barely a thin layer of grass roots on top of sheer bedrock. There are marshes which teem with life above and below the water level and there are some where plants have to resort to be carnivores to get at least some nutrients, with most of their food washed out of what's left of the soil long ago.

>> No.56429371

>>56429221
>t. someone who never saw husked wheat
Let me guess - coconut is full inside, right?

>> No.56429385
File: 34 KB, 425x340, it depends.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
56429385

>>56429154
Pic related
There is climate, soil composition, amount of seasonal and yearly rainfall, daily temperature differential...

>> No.56429435

>>56429237
>Wheat is the least land efficient grain imaginable. Literally ANYTHING else is better: rice, barley, maize, rye, sorgo..

That... is fucking stupid. If wheat was so bad, Europeans would have abandoned it in favour of oats, barley, spelt, rye etc, but they didn't. Nobody keeps growing a sub-optimal crop for thousands of years when it's the only thing you have to eat on a regular basis.

Rice is a mid-tier grain: It takes more work to acquire smaller grains, than wheat, and doesn't have all the necessary vitamins, which is why we've had to genetically engineer golden rice with added nutrients for poor fag asian countries with no better staple to stop them suffering vitamin A deficiencies

Rye is susceptible to ergot infestations, which makes people go crazy

Maize has the problem that if you don't soak it in alkali water and it's your only staple, you get pellagra because your body can't get any niacin from it

>> No.56429653

>>56424966
>>56424936
Wheat is superior in pretty much every meaningful way.

>> No.56429740
File: 88 KB, 722x990, 79532_990x742-cb1399576770.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
56429740

>>56424936
Climate

>> No.56429810

>>56425130

>superfood

hipster murderhobo detected

>> No.56429827

>>56429435

>That... is fucking stupid

People... are fucking stupid

>> No.56429950

>>56429237
>>56429435
Most europeans did eat barley, rye and oats for most of history. Wheat was a cash crop for consumption by richer folks while the majority of peasants made do with other grains. In any case crop rotation mitigated soil depletion to an extent and provided fodder for livestock, which is an advantage over most rice farming communities.

Which brings us to matter of why go to all the trouble of growing a crop with low yields and vulnerability to climate? Wheat just tastes better than other grains. People like eating wheat bread more than barely bread for the most part. Which is exactly why wheat was a luxury for those who could aford it but most people ate less tasty but more productive and affordable cereals.

The same actually holds true for rice as well. Barley and millet were the primary food crops for the ordinary farmer in China or Japan while rice was the luxury cereal for the wealthy in most areas. Rice didn't become the staple in Japan until well into the 19th century.

People want to eat tasty food even if it less efficient when they have the option so sterile facts about cultivation requirements and yield don't tell the whole story.

>> No.56430129

>>56429435
>Being this fucking stupid
>Complaining about others
Let me guess - you know that all from reading wikipedia, right? Never even saw a farmland IRL

>>56429653
>Wheat is inferior in pretty much every meaningful way.
Here, ftfy
It's the worst cereals you can cultivate when it comes to productivity, calories or just about anything else. A luxury that due to truly staggering technological advances managed to become a stample in past century or so, but can remain as such solely due to related tech and machines. But since OP asked for low tech society explicitly, you are going to starve while planting wheat. Assuming it will grow at all.

>>56429950
And this anon gets it.
It's like beri-beri. You get it from lack of B vitamins, that you could easily get from eating unhusked rice. But since husked rice requires extra labour, it's also more expensive, which makes it a luxury in pre-modern milling. Which make beri-beri a rich man disease. Nowdays it's the exact opposite - due to how cheap dehusking is, it's the poor people who eat white rice, because it's cheaper than unprocessed grain, which would require special shipment.
Ironic, if you ask me.

>> No.56430210

>>56429435
>If wheat was so bad, Europeans would have abandoned it in favour of oats, barley, spelt, rye etc, but they didn't
What if I told you nobody planted wheat on anything even resembling wide cultivation until mid 19th century? Hell, the whole Central and Eastern Europe to this day plants barley and rye, so they make kasha out of it and use rye flour extensively in their cuisines. In fact, a bread baked from rye-wheat flour mix is the best thing imaginable, both nutrient- and taste-wise, while also being able to retain rye-only ability to stay edible after more than two days.

And from all the diseases and issues you've mentioned, you somehow managed to ignore the fact wheat can't grow in most climates, has lowest yield per hectare of all stamples (nothing is this low) even in extensive modern agriculture, requires the same amount of water as rice (despite not growing on a paddy) and leaches nutrient from soil so hard you just can't plant it without heavy fertilisation. And without heavily machined threshing, dehusking and milling process, about 2/3 of already meager yield is going to be simply lost.
Also, just like dehusked rice, wheat lacks any sort of vitamins. Guess what kind of wheat is the ONLY edible form of it.

>> No.56430217

>>56429237
>Rye, on the other hand, was the grain most easily grown in the British Isles and northwestern Europe (Scandinavia, Germanic lands, Netherlands, much of France), and remained the most common cereal crop until the end of the eighteenth century.
>William Ashley, The Bread of Our Forefathers: An Inquiry in Economic History. (Oxford, 1928), p. 2
Wow you're retarded. It's only been since the 1800s (you know, post-agricultural revolution) where wheat really took off as a grain, before then the aristocracy loved it, but everyone else ate what was easiest to farm.
>Muh "europeans are literally the worst" rhetoric

>> No.56430327

>>56429435
>Rye is susceptible to ergot infestations
So is wheat. Along with few other very common diseases (known also as blights) that either kill your entire crop in late stages of growth (but all the soil nutrient was already drawn) or make the grain unedible, unless you plan on dying or going mental.
Wheat is susceptible to more diseases than barley and rye combined.

And like already pointed out by other anons, nobody was planting wheat. It wasn't even a true stample until tractors became a thing. Next thing you are going to be surprised maize wasn't popular outside US before interwar period.
Want a better one? Kale, widely considered currently a part of "hipster cuisine", was European stample up until WW1.
How about this one - Korean "traditional" cuisine can't exist without a trainload of imports from New World that reached Korea in late 18th century.

Pro-tip: think before you post.

>>56430217
Not even him, but it's like you deliberately missed the point, then wrote exactly what the point was and jumped on him for missing the point. Are you by chance off your meds?
And yeah, European agriculture up until imports start coming in was fucking horrible. A fall-out of Greco-Roman god-awful agriculture.

>> No.56430393

>>56430327
Anon was trying to say the europeans were all retarded and used wheat as a staple crop everywhere despite it being bad, and ruined the world.
I'm saying everyone but the aristocracy ignored wheat until the agricultural revolution, when it became a feasible crop due to advanced farming techniques.
It's indisputable that wheat is inefficient as a crop, and the only reason it's eaten so much is because it's tasty, but anon was rambling something about europeans already being used to eating when when they started global empires, and spread it everywhere because reasons, when that's just wrong.
I mean my country lives off of potatoes and beef.

>> No.56430432

>>56430217
>>Muh "europeans are literally the worst" rhetoric
God-awful farmers, yes. Dutch plough and Dutch winnowing machine are literally Chinese tools transported by VOC to homeland to copy. Poles made a literal fortune by planting just a bit of wheat to sell it to Western Europe, while eating themselves barley and having grain-to-crop ratio almost twice as high thanks to not wasting time on wheat for anything else than cash crop.
And let me riddle you this one: how do you think China reached such high population historically, looooong before mechanised agriculture? Same applies to rest of East, South East and South Asia, but China is the most prominent one in pre-modern period.
>muh superior europeans rhetoric
Deal with it, we were the bottom scrubbers for most of history.

>> No.56430458

>>56424936

What is the difference between whites and Asians? Wheat can be cultivated by a single individual, but rice farming requires a community.

>> No.56430485

>>56429653

>contains inflammatory lectins, increases gut permeability
>superior to rice

Pick one.

>> No.56430486

>>56425440
Can't you also use those doodads to supplement the cuisine if bigger, meatier shit isn't around due to shortages?

>> No.56430494

>>56430393
I guess we read two different posts then, at least regarding the first part.
But the part about forcefully introducing wheat is actual and sad reality. Starting with scramble for Africa and full-blown colonialism, up until the post-Green Revolution, all sort of institutions, private initiatives and what not was pushing wheat. Not because its superiority, fitting into local ecosystem or whatever else. Not even the taste. Solely because it was believed to be known enough to plant it efficiently.
So if you put it in chronological order, it does make sense. Like Germans forcing wheat in Tanganyka not because it was suitable for realities of Kenya, but because it made a great cash crop, at least on paper. Before they figured out this shit won't work, they've already lost their colonies... but Brits decided to continue the program, since infrastructure for it was already in place, perpetuating the whole issue another 30 years. Then post-colonialism happend and up until early 80s, Kenya was busy trying to feed itself with wheat. Since it was unsuitable for Green Revolution varieties, it only further aggrevated the whole issue. It doesn't help that UN itself in its early relief programms was force-pushing wheat too, until they've started to hire actual experts rather than running on wild assumptions of "if it grows in Kansas, then it will surely do fine in Ghana"

tl;dr it all boils down to how cheap something appears to be

>> No.56430509

>>56424936
Potatoes are king.

>> No.56430519

What about more rare crops? Like buckwheat or millet or sorgo or amaranth?

>> No.56430520

>>56430129
Spaghetti and bread are both made wheat.
Wheat wins.

>> No.56430529
File: 10 KB, 225x225, concern.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
56430529

>>56430494
>mfw relief programmes do more harm than good
Maybe we should just leave that particular continent alone for a while, guys.

>> No.56430531

>>56430458
>Wheat can be cultivated by a single individual
... who owns a fuckload of machines

Jesus Christ, people like you never stop to amaze me. How the FUCK do you think the so-called agricultural revolution happend? From where all the sudden masses of cheap, unqualified labour came to fuel industrial revolution?
A single farmer, unless owning a seeder (so at least a seed drill, but anything above also works), threshing machine with winnowing fan, a horse with steel plough, a horse-drawn mower and a handful of other applications (along with the horse, of course) is not going to farm anything at all. Because, surprise surprise, it also requires a communal effort to tend fields, you stupid motherfucker. And rice can also be planted by an individual if proper tools are at hand.
Guess from where the masses of cheap labour in early 20th century Japan and modern China came from.

>> No.56430534

What has this to do with /tg/?

>> No.56430540

>>56430520
You could make noodles and breads with a load of other cereals.

>> No.56430544

>>56430520
Kasha is made out of barley. Bread is made out of rye. Both make a great feeder.
Barley and rye win.

>> No.56430547

>>56430534
>hurr durr, worldbuilding in MY /tg/?
Granted, I expected the likes of you to pop up much sooner.

>> No.56430555
File: 96 KB, 736x981, disgust.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
56430555

>>56430520
>He eats wheat-only "bread"

>> No.56430568

>>56430432
>Deal with it, we were the bottom scrubbers for most of history.
You're fucking retarded.
Jesus fucking christ these selfhating hipsters who construcz their worldview from bits of trivia get worse every year.

>> No.56430581
File: 497 KB, 500x202, potato.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
56430581

>>56430509

>> No.56430590

>>56430568
Not bottom scrubbers, but definitely worse off than the East, be it Middle or Far

>> No.56430596

>>56430540
>>56430544
Inferior

>>56430555
I eat mostly protein and some fat nowadays, carbs are for pleasure

>> No.56430603

>>56430529
No.
Solely because they've finally figured their shit in late 80s and early 90s. It's FINALLY working. Abandoning it right now, when it started to show effect for real would be the worst decision imaginable.
But honestly, the whole Sahel is fucked precisely thanks to white people "helping" from late 40s to late 50s by drilling fuckload of wells, in a stupid assumption of more water => more livestock => more food, entirely forgetting the animals need also feed on something and not just drink, so a sudden spike of water made herds grow, herds eat out everything in their vicinity and in late 50s the cyclical drought (for every 40-45 years Sahel either gets drier or wetter, currently it's slowly getting wetter again) started, killing of remaining plants and Sahara started moving south.
But nobody cared, since they've packed their toys and left, as all those places got their "freedom" and "independence" from colonial masters. When it started to be a global issue, it was already late 70s and it was waaaaaaay too late to do anything about it other than sending food and pacifying situation until rain will start again.
Which in turn goes to global warming, as this made the rain late for a fucking decade.

This goes in circles, really. But at least in current stage the relief effort for Africa finally works at max efficiency considered the funds at hand and how it's all handled. At least they've stopped doing it top-down. Agriculture never works out when run top-down.

>> No.56430623

>>56430568
>Complains about retards
>Is absolutely ignorant to history
Europe was a complete shithole until mid 17th century. EVERYONE was better than it up until that point. It started to catch up and for another century finally did so. It didn't become any sort of power or a semi-good place to stay around for ANOTHER century.
But sure, we wuz sailors and explorers and shiet.

>> No.56430626

>>56430520
>Spaghetti
>not inferior to buckwheat noodles

>wheat bread
>not inferior to rye or rye-wheat bread
Hah!

>> No.56430635

>>56430590
The middle eastern fetishism is also garbage, Muslims conserved knowledge from greece and transported it from india, but every great “muslim“ scholar was either a Zoroastrian who was forcefully converted (especially in math and astronomy) or a christian/jew.
It got a tiny bit better later on, but pretty much all “Arabic“ inventions, like algebra or their numbers come from india and Greece.

The tech level of the middle ages was higher in many regards than people think and the “dark ages“ are a retarded, outdated myth only perpetuated by wannabe historians

>> No.56430647

>>56430520
>Wheat bread
Which is only good for making toasts. And as much as I like toasts, I can't imagine eating them constantly.
Wheat-rye and rye bread, on the other hand...

>> No.56430652

>>56430623
Nope.

>>56430626
Mixed bread my man.

>> No.56430661

>>56430635
Please explain to us all why you are sperging now about dark ages meme?
Because I fail to see how the fuck any of your rambling related so anything. Especially agriculture, which in case of Europe was shit-tier until Dutch brought bunch of tools from China and English started to experiment around breeding farmstock.
Which was all 18th century and utterly unrelated with Middle Ages at all.

>> No.56430666

>>56430596

>fell for the low carbs meme

Enjoy your low testosterone.

>> No.56430667

>>56430626
Buckwheat noodles are fucking radical.

>> No.56430674

>>56430652
>It's dirty Pollack wanking about his golden age
Like pottery.

>> No.56430680

>>56430494
To be fair, adapting to an entirely new crop package is hard expecially the further back you go. Sticking to what you know is the natural instinct particularly when you are only two failed harvests away from famine. It's not an environment that encourages risk-taking and innovation. Look at how long it took for Europe to adopt the potato, it turned out to be the wonder crop that ended regular famines and caused the population to explode but to farmers at the time it was a new,strange and untested crop that they'd be starting from scratch in understanding. Meanwhile they know what they are doing with wheat, rye and barley so it's not until everyone is starving to death and Old Fritz literally orders them to start eating potatoes that it catches on.

This is not restricted to Europeans by any means, but colonialism and early exposure to new world crops do provide us with some dramatic examples. Civilisations tend to stick with the crop package they know even in areas where they are sub-optimal.

tldr: farmers are generally conservative and new crops are scary and new.

>> No.56430688

>>56430666
The only thing testosterone is good for is getting bald.
Are you enjoying your headbeam already?

>> No.56430758

>>56430680
tldr: poor people are generally conservative [with their livelihood] and new [unproven] crops are scary and new.

Fixed that for you.

>> No.56430765

>>56430680
>Sticking to what you know is the natural instinct
Unless of course you are saying "either you start planting what we tell you, or we stop the relief effort". UN did some really fucked-up psyche job in the early days of post-colonialism.
So it's not about famers being conservatives and new crops being scary and, well, new (even if that's how agriculture works most of the time), but about how the whole thing was handled. It's one thing to prepare a solid analysis for a agriculture resturcturisation and relief like the so-called Green Revolution, which was a project running for almost 30 years before the first batch of grain was implemented at all, and still as a test and completely another story when you roll in all cocky and starts ordering people with thinly-veiled threats backing your actions, while never planning anything ahead at all.

I think the worst thing done in this particular case (agricultural help) in Africa was top-down handling combined with lack of training. Rather than explaining to anyone why and what for this or that is supposed to get planted, it was simply delivered, almost forcefully planted and then everyone waited for 5 years to collect data about crop yield, all while people were actively starving to death.

>> No.56430769

>>56430666
I'm between low and mid carb and very happy with both my gains and my testosterone, anon.

>>56430674
Learn to read, nigger.

>>56430661
Read the whole thread, think, then respond, you're not the only person here.

>> No.56430772
File: 6 KB, 235x206, miss the point.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
56430772

>>56430758
Sure, smartass, sure...

>> No.56430791
File: 458 KB, 333x250, 8wYOL91tec.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
56430791

>>56430769

>> No.56430812

>>56430769
Oh, so you are just a dense motherfucker?
What a lack of surprise...

>> No.56430828

>>56430791
>>56430812
>angry, selfhating lanklets
;^)

>> No.56430847

>>56424936
I think potato’s are pretty good.

Onions too.

>> No.56430870

>>56430680
>>56430765
Another is the whole maize-bean co-planting. It can work, and it does work pretty well, but it assumes everyone knows what they are doing, plant in tight schelude and most importantly, the field is relatively small, rather than being above 10 hectares. Otherwise the bean yield will barely cover seeding, while also depleting (rather than increasing) soil nutrient. One of the doctors in my university made his habilitation about this, but used freshmen instead of untrained farmers and actual, well-instructed farmers for the test group. It was really hilarious watching it all and documenting it for him. Either way, if people don't know how to handle this or only know the basic concept, the crop yield is disastrous and the costs of it all increase significantly without any profit whatsoever.

>> No.56430880

>>56430769
>>56430828
This is the power of a meathead

>> No.56430899

>>56424936
Corn is frikken sweet.

>> No.56430911

Where does Sour Dough fall on this entire "Wheat, Rice, Barley, Rye" thing? Because I love me some sourdough.

>> No.56430929

>>56430911
Sourdough is just regular dough except with extra fermentation isn't it?

I don't know shit about baking though so I could be wrong.

>> No.56430941

>>56430847
>>56430899
Add to it barley and raddish/turnips and you are set. A vegetable garden to get supplementry food and/or cash crops. I also heard them champignons sell pretty well for something that grows on horseshit.

>> No.56431015

>>56430929
Correct. Sourdough is a method of making bread, not its own type of grain.

>> No.56431033

>>56430880
Venting on the internet won't get you a gf, anon.

>> No.56431050

>>56429810

I bet you eat bologna

>> No.56431101

>>56431033
Trying to get buffed won't get you one too.

t. married guy

>> No.56431141
File: 20 KB, 306x306, 0vm22PRG1spsojg.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
56431141

>>56425130
>rice concentrates arsenic in it
>This meme again
Yes, and plums contain Prussic acid, so? You know, the extremely poisonous hydrogen cyanid

>> No.56431230

I suppose the best take away from this thread is most cultures will plant a mixture of grains depending on need, climate, and sophistication. A low tech civ will cultivate one or two, quick growing crops while more advanced cultures will grow a small variety for various needs, with highly advanced societies will focus more towards monoculture, with specific crops choices focusing more towards desirability than need.

Fair enough?

>> No.56431233

>>56431101
I already am and already have one.
How are your kids?

>> No.56431310

>>56431230
>A low tech civ will cultivate one or two, quick growing crops while more advanced cultures will grow a small variety for various needs
It's reverse

>> No.56431378

Wasn't rice the go to crop in Japan due to how mountainous the region is?

>> No.56431397

>>56424936
Rice requires more labor and care. Wheat is a plant and forgot crop. It results in different farmer personalities.

>> No.56431420

>>56431233
>>56431101
>tfw anons start talking about their kids, make friends

We can dream :3

>> No.56431428

>>56424966
Rice has a lower per acre yield. Lower than most staple crops.

Potato is highest, wheat is middling high but is very tolerant.

>> No.56431437

>>56431397
>Wheat is a plant and forgot crop
I do not believe this is accurate, sir

>> No.56431491

has anyone made a space setting before? I want to do a game in space but my players are going to basically demand a whole host of alien races and i just get lost in everything stacking ontop of one another.

>> No.56431507

We all know that potatoes are the best crops.

>> No.56431532

>>56424936
Since this is now /farmgen/ I have a question.

I'd like the main agricultural deity for one of the cultures in my setting to also be a sun god, a combination which seems to actually be quite rare historically with Inti being the only major example I can find. What sort of crops and environment would prompt a solar/farming god?

Inti ruled over maize which needs lots of sunlight but I'm worried about the effects of introducing it into an iron age Mesopotamia-style setting. Sorghum seemed a good candidate for the staple crop since it thrives in temperatures above 90F and is very drought resistant.

>> No.56431551

>>56431378
Bit of the opposite, actually, especially as you went further up north.

>> No.56431563
File: 421 KB, 700x525, sad pepe in the rain.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
56431563

>>56431420
>tfw I have come to realize that I will never have kids because I am socially autismal creep who has never even held hands with a grill in my 24 years of existence.

I love children. Many of the most emotionally fulfilling moments of my life have been watching over my younger relatives. There is nothing better than witnessing the genuine joy, wonder, curiosity and affection of a child. My dream is that one day, I will have my own family with 3-5 kids, summer cottage by the lake on whose shores I spent my childhood summer's, and a doggo.

Too bad none of that will ever come true.

>> No.56431575

>>56431437
>literally bible verses about not pulling up weeds around grain fields because you'll reduce the harvest
>not sow and forget
Grains like wheat, barley and rye are the least labor intensive crops in the pre-industrial world.

>> No.56431616

>>56431437
>>56431575
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+13&version=NIV

MATT 13

27 “The owner’s servants came to him and said, ‘Sir, didn’t you sow good seed in your field? Where then did the weeds come from?’

28 “‘An enemy did this,’ he replied.

“The servants asked him, ‘Do you want us to go and pull them up?’

29 “‘No,’ he answered, ‘because while you are pulling the weeds, you may uproot the wheat with them. 30 Let both grow together until the harvest. At that time I will tell the harvesters: First collect the weeds and tie them in bundles to be burned; then gather the wheat and bring it into my barn.’”

>> No.56431635

>>56431397
>I have no idea about farming: The Post
I mean at this point of this thread posts like this are pretty disappointing, really.

>> No.56431661

>>56431532
I don't know about large scale farming but from simple gardening I can tell you that Tomatoes, peppers, beans and corn love having as much sun as possible.

Basically any type of guard or legumes love tons of sunlight.

>> No.56431708

>>56431575
>>56431616
Ever heard about such thing as "trampling"?
By going into a field while it grows and is not ready for harvest, you are going to damage your crops. I know all the Bible references get rusty once 95% of people stopped being farmers and herders in Western world, but the meaning of that whole allegory was "let them all live and when time is due, they will be judged, since we can do that later and don't have to do it now"

Also, neither Greek nor Aramaic original text says a word about wheat. This is what you get for reading Protestant fan-fiction.

>> No.56431722

>>56430529
>Maybe we should just leave that particular continent alone for a while, guys.
The Chinese won't, so we can't either.

>> No.56431735
File: 335 KB, 1300x979, agriculture-steep-hillside-rice-terraces-in-a-tropical-setting-with-AA0C2A[1].jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
56431735

>>56424936
From what I understand wheat is best if you have a lot of flat land to grow in, rice is better if you have hilly land and need to squeeze out every last square foot of growing space.

>> No.56431761

>>56431532
Legumes should work perfectly fine. Which were also planted in Mesopotamia pretty extensively.
And don't quote me on this, but indigenous believes of Malay region had deity of sun and agriculture as one person.

>>56431575
>Wheat
>Least labour intensive
Are you insane or have no idea about agriculture whatsoever?

>> No.56431788

>>56431722
The Chinese are there precisely because nobody else gave a fuck.
This is what you get for being apathetic. This is what you get for not giving a fuck - someone who does take over.

Why do you think there is a "West" backed relief effort for Africa in the current decade, even if both Europe and US just decided to shrug over Africa in the tail end of the 90s?

>> No.56431807

>>56431735
Terrace farming is just as good with any sort of plants you have, anon.
It just happens the people who had enough manpower and political stability to pull them extensively were rice planters.

>> No.56431816

http://nue.okstate.edu/Crop_Information/World_Wheat_Production.htm
>metric tonnes/hectare
>USA yields 7.8t/ha of corn
>China yields 6.73t/ha of rice
>France yields 8t/ha of wheat
Numbers are all over the place though

>>56431635
I am inclined to believe you know even less. There is an important difference between mass/hectre and mass/manhour and whatever additional resources the farming requires.

>> No.56431858

>>56431761
Please enlighten me on how Wheat is more labor intensive than rice. Because asian farmer folklore is obsessed with intensive care of rice fields while western farming lore is much more casual.

Also we're ignoring herders/ranchers who have the least amount of labor.

>> No.56431874

>>56431420
He ignored me :(

>>56431563
Why? Finding a grill isn't hard anon, what stops you?

>> No.56431876

>>56431816
Jesus, you genuinely have no clue about farming... Are you at least semi-aware how highly machined and automated French agriculture is? Those yields don't come from the plant itself - they come from one of the most, if not THE most well-oiled farming machine on this planet.
By your logic, we should abandon potatoes, since the yield per hectare is pretty insignificant in Russia.

>> No.56431909

>>56430688
>the only testosterone is good for is getting bald.
I never thought I'd see men proud to me low test rejects.

>> No.56431911

>>56431874
>Why? Finding a grill isn't hard anon, what stops you?
Being socially autistic and having literally zero experience in romantic relationships.
Like I said, I haven't even held hands with a girl.

I have nothing with which I could even attract a girl even if I tried. I am a weird asocial outcast and have been one all of my life.

>> No.56431932

>>56431858
Because both require the exact same amount of work, you idiot. What do you think people do with rice paddies after the rice is planted? They fucking WAIT for the rest of the time. The only labour-intensive part is planting and harvesting, which requires the exact same amount of work in both cases. Field preparation vs paddy preparation? Believe it or not, paddy takes less work, as long as you are not doing terrace farming.

Meanwhile, all you've got is fucking CULTURAL claims, starting with quoting badly translated Bible verse (which meaning you also don't understand) and backed by nothing at all.

>> No.56431950

>>56431876
Show me. Show me why the number one source of calories from Gaul to Mesopotamia is some magical pansy that withers if you don't sing sweetly to it every evening. Show me that Wheat is more work pre-industrial to rice which is sprouted and planted by hand into a field that is artificially flooded by a network of earthworks and small dams.

>> No.56431977

>>56431788
The West abandoned Africa, because they largely weren't wanted. With the end of the apartheid being anti-white/Western was in Vogue.

>> No.56431981

>>56431874
Didn't ignore you, I was making dinner. Expecting a child in early April.

>>56431911
If you won't start, you will never gain experience. I never understood the whole "I had no experience" bullshit. What the fuck?
With attitude like that you can already neck yourself and be done with it.

>>56431858
Apparently you know not only jack shit about farming, but also "asian farmer folklore" (what country? what region?).
Both are just as labour intensive. In fact, if you remove replanting from the picture, rice is less intensive than wheat. And both are "plant and forget" you idiot. That's just how food farming works, unless you need to apply irrigation. But then you are tendin water supply, not crops.

>> No.56432005

>>56431563
Tinder m8.
Also if you're alright with a "starter family" there are times of single moms out desperate for a man.

>> No.56432031

>>56431911
Literally just go up and say hi, strike up a conversation.
Once you can do that, ask one out for a coffee, casual.
Girls don't say no to that if they don't have a good reason.
Also, you're gonna fail, a lot, but that's okay.


>>56431981
Boy or girl?

>> No.56432050

>>56431950
Because the same wheat is planted by bunch of guys throwing grain with their hands over a field tilled with inefficient ploughs, just like rice is hand-planted. And unlike wheat, rice doesn't require harrowing. You know what harrowing is, right?
Speaking of ploughs - you know who invented the "modern" plough? The one lightweight and with option for regulation, while being fully made out of metal? Chinese. Because they didn't felt like dragging a heavy, wheeled bullshit device, just like they didn't like the idea of using pair of oxes for this, if a horse wearing a collar (also Chinese invention) could do four time as much work as said pair of oxes and ate 2/3 of what they did.
But hey, you quoted Bible, surely you know your shit!

>> No.56432084

>>56432031
It's barely the right time to even try to learn that, but we don't want to know.
>inb4 stop pushing gender meme
My best friend was expecting a girl. He and his wife prepared everything in advance.
Imagine their faces when a boy was born.

>> No.56432103

>>56431981
M8, I am 24. There are 14 year old kids with more experience with the opposite sex than I am. How do you suppose I "start gaining experience" when I lack even the basic competence that is expected of a man my age? At some point in one's own life, one has to realize that the train has already left the station.

>>56432005
I am disgusted by online dating.
And no, I don't have any interest in taking care of another man's child, unless that man is my relative or friend who has passed away. Then it is a matter of honor. But taking care of a mistake of another man, is a repulsive thought to me.

>>56432031
What part about social autism do you not get. I literally do not know how to strike up conversations with people. I have to be invited to a conversation otherwise I just stand around and don't say anything because of the voice in my head that tells me to shut up and not disrupt other people with my presence. The only way I get more talkative in real life is if I am drunk, and I only discovered this very recently, because I never drank alcohol until I was around 23, mostly because I found the taste bad, and also because I was afraid of what I would be like if I was drunk. I feared that my suicidal tendencies would overpower my drunken mind and that I'd fucking kill myself.

>> No.56432119

>>56431532
Water is usually associated with farming, because the sun is pretty constant. You don't lose crops because you had some extra cloudy months.

Rain is more "fickle," and as such has a much more demonstrable impact on farming.

>> No.56432127

>>56431981
>>56431932
>moving the goalposts to "they require the same amount of work"

Wheat
>Crop rotation (just requires more land)
>throw some turds onto the field
>Burn/till the soil with a plow
>sow seeds
>you're done until harvest where you scythe and thresh

Rice
>level the ground
>build earthworks around the paddy
>dig trenches and floodgates to divert a nearby river
>sprout rice
>plant each sprout into the flooded paddy individually and by hand
>periodicly flood or drain the field
>maintain earthworks/floodgate system throughout the year
>harvest and thresh the rice

Same amount of work my ass.

>> No.56432152

>>56432103
>the basic competence that is expected of a man my age
Such all?

Aside of course being a massive case of drama queen. Look, genius. Either you move your ass and start at least trying to look for social contact, or it will never happen on its own.
If you really don't feel like putting any effort into it whatsoever, there is speed dating. Works for most people, if not for the final result, then "gaining experience".

>> No.56432180

>>56429810
I dunno, kinda like the idea of using meme superfoods of the day in your world when building a setting.
'My elves all eat kale!"
And of course, if you want to go full hipster murderhobo, you can have dwarves brew their ale with nothing but Cascadia hops.

>> No.56432192

>>56432084
I hope you get a boy, they are more expensive early on but much less do later.
Plus, boys break your stuff, girls break your mind.

>> No.56432206

>>56432103
>And no, I don't have any interest in taking care of another man's child, unless that man is my relative or friend who has passed away. Then it is a matter of honor. But taking care of a mistake of another man, is a repulsive thought to me.
What happened to liking kids?
Send to me that beggars can't be choosey.

If you aren't already, I'd seriously recommend hitting the gym. It did a lot for my confidence.

>> No.56432228

>>56432127
>Implying you don't crop-rotate rice paddies
>Throwing manure on ground
>Not harrowing seeds
>Implying you don't need to level ground for wheat
>Sprouting rice in unspecified way
>Not knowing a single thing about irrigated farming
>Or paddy maintance

So like I've said, you know jack-shit about farming. Also, you prepare field ONCE. If by putting twice as much work into single preparation of field you can get two harvests a year, where is the problem, exactly? Because your work pays off in single year and anything after that is pure profit.
How the fuck you think there are so many people in rice-based agriculture, even in pre-modern times?

>> No.56432235

>>56432050
>harrowing
it is literally just plowing under a different name.
>lol you don't plow as deep and your goal is to break up the soil so it is totally different from when you plow slightly deeper with the goal of breaking up the soil
The distinction is if you want to create mounds or if you don't care about mounds and just want loose soil.
>lol I said harrowing, it is so difficult when we've already acknowledged plows

>> No.56432266

>>56432127
Not even him, but holy shit son, educate yourself. If you think wheat or just about any grass farming is this easy, I hope you will never have to rely on subsistence farming, or you are going not only to die, but waste the seeds others could use.

>> No.56432272

>>56432152
>Such all?
Being able to keep a discussion going, how to flirt, how to read behavioral signals as in the unspoken communication, how to talk about matters that don't actually interest me, how to be witty and charming and so on.

Basically, how to not be the autismal nerd who grew up browsing 4chan that I am. I spent most of my free time from the age of 15 onward here. I am a product of this site. How on earth do you expect me to able to do anything other than at best, not draw too much attention in the realm of regular people.

And I already said that I have accepted the fact that I will never have kids. I cannot conceive of a future in which I'd be able to reach my dream of having a family. It is too late for me.

>> No.56432286

>>56432206
I like kids that are my kin.
Not random kids that I am not related to.

>> No.56432299
File: 26 KB, 400x462, 9096726.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
56432299

>>56432235
>>harrowing
>it is literally just plowing under a different name.
Get.
Out.
Now.

Seriously, they even teach in elementry the difference between ploughing and harrowing. It's part of fucking history course when neolitic revolution is covered, along with three-field system in late medieval/early modern.

>> No.56432342

>>56432103
I did mean it exactly like I wrote it though, the process of walking up to a girl and saying hi only includes walking up and saying hi.
What follows depends on your relationship, if you don't know each other you introduce yourself and ask her name, then you can ask why she is where she is or why she does what she does.
You don't have to do much more at the beginning, once you've asked one or two questions and saud something about yourself just say that it was nice talking to her and that you've gotta go and leave.
Just don't speedwalk away like a turboautist. Once you can do that you have all you need to get a date. My girl is very shy and used to have social anxiety, just put yourself into social situations a lot and it improves in time.
Also, don't worry, aa a guy you can always get a younger girl.

>> No.56432357

>>56432235
>Harrowing is just different name for plowing
Way to oust yourself as ignorant faggot

>>56432272
Um... what?
You are trying to make a fucking rocket science with basic social interaction. You just talk. Ask people what they like. Then talk about it. If you have no clue about that, ask another question. Jesus, it's really easy.
I was shy for my entire childhood and teen years, but eventually I grow simply tired of always being too meak to even speak up. I forced myself to drop that and that was literally it. Eventually I've stopped giving fuck and by the time I was at the uni, everyone was laughing when I was saying I'm a shy guy.

>> No.56432380

>>56432357
>You are trying to make a fucking rocket science with basic social interaction.
Because for me, it is.

>> No.56432429

>>56432299
>Seriously, they even teach in elementry the difference between ploughing and harrowing. It's part of fucking history course when neolitic revolution is covered, along with three-field system in late medieval/early modern.

Not that anon but, American here - our history up until highschool doesn't cover anything earlier than the revolutionary war

>> No.56432437

>>56432235
Plowing prepares the ground for planting, by breaking the soil.
Harrowing covers the grain in said soil, so pests and birds won't eat it out.
It takes to be an A-grade moron to not know that or considering it the same action. Especially since it requires completely different tools. Even I know that and I've spend all of 28 years of my life in a 1.3mil city.
For a person constantly screaming about moving goalposts, you are amazing in diverting attention from the subject at hand and making everyone marvel how out of depth your are in even most basic stuff regarding planting grain.

>> No.56432443

>so many people replied to autismo and acted like assholes
Jesus
>>56432342
>>56432031
>>56432192
Me, sorry for getting the attention on you, friend.
>>56432286

>> No.56432446

>>56432429
Move was the opposite. Occasionally we got history up to WW2.

>> No.56432465

>>56432429
Also not the guy you are replying to, but this fucking sucks. And I was sure doing neolitic revolution three times over entire mandatory education was bad.

>> No.56432480

>>56432272
>It is too late for me
You're 24 dude, jesus christ.

>> No.56432501

>>56432429
Was about to say pretty much the same thing. As far as a lot of American school systems are concerned, nothing happened until the Pilgrims landed. What happened prior to that may be very briefly and very generally touched upon, but that is it.

Basically, nothing else matters but America. Which sucks and is totally wrong, but that is how it is.

>> No.56432523

>>56432272
1) Stop crying over non-existing issues
2) Start getting out
3) Getting fit doesn't help turning into chick magnet, but it DOES help build confidence

And like one of the anons mentioned, speed-dating is your easiest bet. It literally exists to cut out everything that's not essential and just jump to do or not.
Sitting and crying achieves nothing.

>> No.56432546

>>56432119
I know, and most cultures in the setting do have rain and weather deities strongly associated with farming alongside earth fertility types. You also have river gods for those lucky civilisations that have nice regular flooding Nile-style to water the crops, though of course this is still a water deity.

It's the exception which is proving harder to plot. I suspect the combination of a very sunlight dependant crop that requires the suns warmth at otherwise chilly high altitues to grow (sustained heay cloud could cause crop failure) and a mostly arid climate that made rain fairly unimportant in ensuring the harvest (and Inti did get some credit for rain even if was a very minor part of the portfolio) that meant that the Inca buck the trend. Do you need to have high altitude maize in a dry zone to get Inti, or can something similar arise in other circumstances with other crops?

>> No.56432553

>>56432501
Plus it's pretty hilarious how we go from the Revolutionary war, touch on the war of 1812 (no, we don't deny we got our asses kicked), and then skip all the way to the civil war, and then all the way to ww1 which we talk about briefly, spend more time on ww2, then it's on to the civil rights movement and MLK

I learned more history from cartoons and television

>> No.56432564

>/tg/ where farming methods employed by illiterates are so difficult to be considered impossible

>> No.56432565

>>56432119
>You don't lose crops because you had some extra cloudy months.
This is precisely how you loose your crops. Ever heard about "year without summer" and what happend because of it?

>> No.56432567

>>56432501
For that matter, the (totally optional) "World History" class I took in high school was nothing more than North American and European history. We never even touched on anything outside of those areas.

Hell, we learned more world history in the (also optional) mythology class than in the actual world history class. But even that was still mostly focused on America with a bit of Europe thrown in.

>> No.56432588
File: 71 KB, 700x467, 1437440618100.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
56432588

>>56431858
>>56432127
>>56432235
The state of modern city slackers...

>> No.56432613

>>56432480
Yes, and?
Most of my peers have experience in romantic relationship, especially women do. I am on the level of experience of a 12 year old boy, as in I got none. Why on earth would any girl my age waste time on me?

>>56432523
>1) Stop crying over non-existing issues
>realization that you most likely will never have children
>non existent issue
Yeah, right. It's not like without a family, I basically have no reason to invest myself at all to this society.
>2) Start getting out
Doing that, I go basically to every university party that is arranged, because I am desperate for socialization, despite my utter lack of skill at it.
>3) Getting fit doesn't help turning into chick magnet, but it DOES help build confidence
I have dropped over 20 kgs during this year, and am still continuing the process. I weight around 93 kgs now, but the weight loss has kinda hit a plateau and I don't seem to be able to drop it under 90.

And I got no interest in emotionless speed dating. The concept itself is creepy and disgusting to me.

>> No.56432655

>>56432553
>>56432567
Olderfag burgerlander here.
Back when I was going through the system, they still covered actual world history. But even at the time, heard teachers bitching about how they wanted everything changed - had one teacher talk about how the 'US History' class would start at the Civil War, and anything before that would be covered in middle school.
It sounded insane; glad to know it's panning out so well for us.

>> No.56432732

>>56424936
Depends strictly on the population and land.
Rice has a faster yeld and can grown in humid terrains. It helps because it's cheap, doesn't require much care and can feed large amounts of people with little problem.
Wheat has a big yeld, but needs to be cared after and is much more subsceptible to diseases and infestations. It is also exceptionally difficult to grow and requires a stable climate.

Polite reminder that the wheat we have today is not the same we had in the middle ages. It is actually a mutant creates by breeding different types of wheat together. Real wheat was very fragile and difficult to grow, while rice recieved minimal changes through history

>> No.56432753

>>56432127
Wheat
>Make sure the soil is not too acidic
>Slash the entire area, burn what's left
>Level the ground to avoid run-off erosion and mud deposits
>Plow entire area within single week, or it will be too late for planting, do this yearly
>Have at least 4 people and two draft animals strong enough to pull plowing, planting and harrowing, do this yearly
>You remembered to fertilize the field during late autumn, late winter and early spring, right? And had fertilizer for that, too. Do this yearly.
>Pray entire crop circle for good weather, do this yearly
>Prey no blight gets into the crops, as this is your only harvest this year, do this yearly
>Make sure it's not raining during harvest, or all your hard work is going to rot, do this yearly
>Harvest quickly all the fields before the grain falls off the stem
>It's all fungus-infected anyway, but you will only notice once you get poisoned
>After 10 to 15 years start looking out for new field, because you depleted the soil to the point where it can barely sustain grass, and that despite crop rotation, do it until you run out of good farmland
It's more like this when you take out tractors and harvesters out of the picture.

>> No.56432759

>>56432565
>year without summer
You mean the freak occurrence that happened once in the last three hundred years? The one that was caused by volcanic activity?

Do you know how rare that shit is when compared to a drought?

>> No.56432819

>>56432759
Here is a thing to consider.
Plants are more resilient to lack of water than abundance of it. They are also more resilient to excess sun than lack of it.
Average grain grass can resist lack of water for about two weeks no issues whatsoever in high temperature. But it will rot away in less than 4 days in case of being flooded.

tl;dr too much water is worse than no water at all. Which is also the main reason why so many newbies starting their gardens manage to kill all their plants first season. Because they overwater them and also make soil water-logged

>> No.56432897

>>56432759
Year without summer is an extreme case, but just having your average stormy late June is going to fuck-up all the crops in the worst moment imaginable. 10-14 days of heavy storms (no flood, just regular early summer storms) and you are done with it, since this will over-water your fields and also drop soil temperature significantly. Not a problem with, say, barley, but will fuck up your wheat, any sort of bush-grown fruits and if you still had potatoes, then say goodbye to them too.

>> No.56432921
File: 33 KB, 244x324, 1509693801254.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
56432921

>>56424936
Wheat is prettier.

>> No.56432932

>>56429950
>Rice didn't become the staple in Japan until well into the 19th century.

At which point the Japs crippled their Navy due to offering rice to their barely-paid sailors for free...but nothing else, resulting in vitamin deficiency and crippling, deadly malaise. The common ass grunts made it worse because the free rice was well liked and no one wanted to diversify with pleb food.

>> No.56432933

So, I'm still in the pretty early stages of building a setting and I'm looking for input on a couple things. Basically, the players will start as people from the mid-late 90s that end up getting transported to a different world. I'm still working on how exactly, but it'll likely be some sort of rift. When they get there, it's a fantasy world, but other rifts have opened in the past and things from our world have slipped through. This is the part I'm really looking for help with. The big faction of people from (or influenced by) our world I'm thinking will be a platoon of guys from Vietnam. I'm thinking they'll have integrated more or less with the local Human population. Other stuff I'm looking at maybe including would be Dwarves as Neanderthal descendants, Nazis in the underdark, and things like that.

Any suggestions or feedback would be appreciated, but I'm mostly trying to figure out what throwing a platoon from the Vietnam War into a typical generic fantasy Human civ would look like.

>> No.56432935
File: 132 KB, 391x310, andrewjackson_main_image.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
56432935

>>56432553
>war of 1812 (no, we don't deny we got our asses kicked),
Say that shit to my face.

>> No.56433002

>>56432437
>It takes to be an A-grade moron to not know that
Not him, and I knew they were different (and kinda that you had to cover seeds), but we never covered that in history or science - I had to look up what Harrowing was and be like "oh, it's that thing" - different countries have different priorities historically, we never had the neolithic revolution in school (I'm reminded of an anon a couple years back who was amazed that a lot of anons didn't know/give a shit about the revolution that was the potato)

Farming isn't huge to my country, we don't learn about it much - I assume it's similar for some other anons, including the US ones apparently

>> No.56433033

>>56432897
>just having your average stormy late June is going to fuck-up all the crops in the worst moment imaginable
Exactly why rain/storm gods are more prevalent in agrarian societies.

The sun is now of a generic cool guy who everyone likes because he does his job. That might change dramatically if you have a setting where the sun occasionally doesn't show up, because the sun God doesn't feel like getting out of bed.

>> No.56433224
File: 11 KB, 261x191, 5f0c3e22.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
56433224

>>56432933
>It's isekai
Man who came too early. I think that was the title. Long story short - a random Joe who isn't an expert in given field, doesn't gain any political backing (even on regional, if not just communal scale) and doesn't secure funds is not going to achieve much.
So if you have a journalist, an accountant and a feeelance ad designer, they are not going to fare too much. Well, maybe the accuntant, but that's jumping to a lot of conclusions.

>> No.56433287

>>56430129
>It's the worst cereals you can cultivate when it comes to productivity, calories or just about anything else. A luxury that due to truly staggering technological advances managed to become a stample in past century or so, but can remain as such solely due to related tech and machines. But since OP asked for low tech society explicitly, you are going to starve while planting wheat. Assuming it will grow at all.
Bollocks
At the start of the early modern period, the average daily diet for people in England was bread, made from wheat flour, 3 times a day. Everyone ate bread. The tastiest, whitest flour went to the rich folk, the every day folk got brown/'granary' bread and the poorest made do with whatever they could afford, which was made of husks and tree bark and other things.

>> No.56433296

>>56433224
Oh, and most importantly - trying to affect world big way without taking at least rudimenty steps is bound to fucking fail. While it was one of the ultimate Mary Sues guilty pleasures I ever read (and I mean extreme case of Mary Sue, this shit was just unnerving afte a while) was Crosstime Engineer. Because for all the countless and massive faults of the whole deal (it's a dreadfully bad novel), it does cover the whole "start small and grow from there" part, rather than trying to tinker out a machine gun in a village's blacksmith shop

>> No.56433314

>>56433287
Rye bread, you idiot. If you can't tell wheat from rye, you shouldn't even speaking up.

>> No.56433392

>>56433296
Yeah it was pretty bad, but I loved them. You can hand wave a lot when you've got a cabal of powerful time travelers helping out.

>> No.56433470

>>56433002
Farming is also not big here, it doesn't even translate to 6% of economy and last time it was important for anything it was 200 years ago. But someone decided it's important to explain to kids what a big deal it is to stop chasing after game and looking out for berries and instead plant things you are going to eat and keep animals around. You know, the very foundation of any sort of civics advancements - settling down and starting to farm.

>>56433392
That's what was so bad about them. I mean Stargard was already an amazingly bad and shallow Mary Sue, but the fact he constantly gets cheat-help from the future is what ruins the whole thing. I really liked the early stages, when he was busy settling up most basic machines and industries that still were few centuries ahead, while the author was busy describing them in autistic details. That lasted for about 2/3 of the first book. I only flipped pages from following ones and dropped it entirely when I've got to the anticipated Mongol invasion.
Also, if you happen to know just about anything about medieval history of central Europe, the series is just plain horrible from the start.

>> No.56433672

>>56430647
Rye bread only tastes good when toasted. I agree that mixed grain breads are superior, though.

>> No.56433744

>>56430129
>It's the worst cereals you can cultivate when it comes to productivity, calories or just about anything else.
It's the most protein dense grain commonly farmed. It's the reason wheat growing countries tended to be taller on average than their rice eating counterparts.
>Richman's food
Bullshit, the average everyday roman had a ration of spelt wheat flour to make their bread before that the first farming communities in Mesopotamia were growing einkorn and emmer wheat. Quit LARPing as a historian.

>> No.56434471
File: 182 KB, 1271x845, D72A2914-29E2-40F3-93E1-DFC280529072.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
56434471

>>56430432
Also japan was controlled for a while by wheat growing Americans

>> No.56434545

>>56424936
Rice :
> multiple harvest per year
> allows a bigger population (medieval cities where more populated in Asia than in Europe)
> you need more farmers per square kilometer than with wheat

Wheat :
> single harvest per year
> people are free during several months, which has been a huge boost for the industry in History (merchants would visit the peasants and give them work for the winter)
> you need less workers per square kilometer

Also something about disease with humidity.
All and in all, rice is good for numbers while wheat is good for the industry.

>> No.56436429
File: 68 KB, 534x400, diversity.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
56436429

>>56430765
Or they could have just not killed all the farmers.

>> No.56436433

>>56433672
Rye bread, untoasted, served with jam or honey is fucking fantastic. You should try it, preferably with currant jam. Bonus round if you combine rye bread, white cheese and jam/honey. Breakfast of the champions

>>56433744
>Wheat
>Most protein dense grain
You've spelled barley in a really weird way

>> No.56436484
File: 75 KB, 900x600, 102313_1.1.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
56436484

>>56436429
>Mfw /pol/ bumps thread from page 10 with their bullshit
Yes anon, let's pretend entire Africa boils down to SAR and Rhodesia.

>> No.56436575
File: 51 KB, 550x405, tubers1[1].jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
56436575

I've been waiting for this thread for a million years:


How does TUBER (starchy roots basically) agriculture differ from grain agriculture? By that I mean not just from a cultivation point, but also nutritional, cuisine, what it leads into if anything, etc..

>> No.56436584

How do you guys come up with city names?

>> No.56436788

>>56436575
Depends on tuber in question, anon. Potato is the most efficent crop in existence when it comes to calories/hectare. Nothing gets even close on a large margain. They also win in preparation, since all you need to do is just throw them into a fire (or boil them, if there is water at hand). On the other hand, there is stuff like cassava, which is extremely low in nutrients, but high in calories, with the main selling point is the ability to grow on shit-tier soils that nothing, not even memetic millet, can grow on. Yams are somewhat of middle ground - they have lower energy value, BUT are a reliable protein source. And there is also taro, which is the best of all tropical tubers, but has the disadvantage of requiring a lot of water to grow (it's planted next to rice paddies due to heavy water use).

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