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56330131 No.56330131 [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

Salamanders on Terra edition.

>Previous thread
>>56273741

>Thread FAQ
http://pastebin.com/iUqNrrA8

>Official HH 7th Edition Errata (not updated since January 2016)
http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/resources/fw_site/fw_pdfs/Horus_Heresy/Horus_Heresy_7th_Edition.pdf

>30k TACTICA & TIPS
What to include in a HH list, how to format it, what makes each legion special (crunch), tactics, Tutorials for Heresy-era minis and more
http://pastebin.com/Tm2P4QLp

>HH Books, Novels and Rulebooks galore
http://pastebin.com/k9uvqsub
https://sys.4chan.org/derefer?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.docdroid.net%2Ffz1OuHK%2Fcrusade-imperialis-army-lists.pdf.html
https://sys.4chan.org/derefer?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.docdroid.net%2FZTK72gs%2Flegiones-astartes-age-of-darkness-army-list.pdf.html
https://sys.4chan.org/derefer?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmega.nz%2F%23F!BxI1HSgI!0tKymKh9RZTzGpgIA5EyCg

>/HHG/'s Legion demographics
http://www.strawpoll.me/10558764

>/HHG/'s allegiances
www.strawpoll.me/10663447

>Primarch Popularity Poll
http://www.strawpoll.me/11458318

>NEW Mega Folder
https://mega.nz/#F!gaBiVTKI!HTOuNx5zzNxHqT-ny-AU3A

>> No.56330164

1st for the Emperor.

>> No.56330322

Second for the fourth legion

>> No.56330416

Third for reply to this post or your primarch will die in his sleep.

>> No.56330440
File: 199 KB, 1108x1129, IW Group.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
56330440

>>56330322
My bitter brother!

>> No.56330496

So which primary was more beloved by his brothers? Sanguinius or Vulkan?

>> No.56330534
File: 132 KB, 1024x920, Danger Dog.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
56330534

>>56330416
Not today.

>> No.56330718
File: 916 KB, 2424x1966, Constantin Valdor.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
56330718

>>56330416
You Astartes are such immature creatures. No surprise you ruined everything our glorious king had achieved.

>> No.56330804

>>56330718
Didnt Valdor almost go down to some TSon blademasters without their psychic powers? Kinda embarrassing tbqh.

>> No.56330825
File: 99 KB, 723x960, 20155996_1795795037309610_5473749829600864078_n.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
56330825

>>56330416

Joke's on you because he never sleeps.

>> No.56330856

>>56330804
As far as I can remember he fought 30 1k sons blademasters at same time.

>> No.56330928

>>56330856
While being surrounded by his bodyguard and some Sisters of Silence though. I means its not like TSons are known for their martial skill is it?

>> No.56331062

>>56330928
He was alone fighting against 30 blademasters.

>> No.56331108

>>56330928
That's Micheal Jordan syndrome right there m8. He was so fucking great at basketball that he would never be known for anything else. Does anyone even remember how well he did playing baseball and golf? Who the fuck cares if he was great at either of them their notoriety would never reach his basketball career.

>> No.56331231

>>56330928
>Of the hundred, less than thirty managed to fight their way past the Custodians and Sentinel Guard that surrounded Valdor. Those thirty closed on the First of the Ten Thousand as a single body, each wielding long blades that, even without the psychic charge normally provided by its user, could still cut ceramite armour asunder with ease. Valdor slew them all, but at great cost to himself, for at least one of the crimson warriors had left his mark upon the lord of the Custodes, red blood staining his gold armour.
Seems to me he fought them alone, it isn't clear though.

>>56330928
>I means its not like TSons are known for their martial skill is it?
Lucius was once almost beaten by a TS swordmaster, so I guess the Khenetai are more than decent with a blade.

>> No.56331256

>>56331231
The Sisters of Silence were definitely working, as they couldn't psychically charge their swords.

>> No.56331329
File: 51 KB, 736x555, 1cc07058ca6cc530d1c46d49d82e2fa9.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
56331329

>>56330825

Corax paced slowly to the first cell door on the Red Level. He paused for a moment, repulsed and driven on in equal measure.
It had to be done.
Inside, he found a creature crouched in the corner, its skin white beneath clumps of thick black fur, its eyes round, ebon discs that stared at him without any obvious intellect. Even so, he could not ignore the similarities – the pale flesh, and the dark eyes.
They had fought the war, and they had won. Now was the time to put right the assertion he had made to the sorcerer Nathrakin, on the forge world of Constanix II.
‘I have made several oaths in my long life, but I have been careful to swear only those I could fulfil – except for one,’ he told the beast. He crouched next to the pitiful thing and it shuffled closer, comforted by his presence, though the sight of it broke the primarch’s heart. ‘One I now think may be beyond me. I looked into the face of our enemy, into the heart of the force that had corrupted them. I knew that, even if we killed Horus, that power could not be eradicated completely. Chaos will return with ever greater strength if we allow it, if we give it the vessels it seeks and feed the ambitions that drive the weak to its embrace.’
Corax recognised the adoration and trust that radiated from the deformed Raptor. He laid one massive hand upon the former legionary’s head, and the fingers of the other curled around his throat. The creature’s mouth worked a few times, and drool dribbled over Corax’s hand and fell to the floor in thick gobbets.
‘I remember everything, and I remember my exact words before I sent that fiend back into the warp-vortex that had birthed it...’
Tears stung the primarch’s eyes.
‘I... I promised him that I would destroy every warp-spawned, Chaos-tainted creature in the galaxy before I die...’
The mewling, groaning thing that had been Navar Hef met his gaze.
‘And I have always kept my promises, my son.’

>> No.56331363

>>56330804
Less embarrassing than endless daddy issues and constant dick contest tbqh.

>> No.56331410

>>56331363
If the Emperor in his glorious wisdom did not seek for the legions to improve themselves through constant contests of fatherly dick length, he would have made femarchs.

>> No.56331466

>>56331256
They are still 30 elite swordmen with power blades. At once. And Khenetai are known for fighting as a single body and mind, even without psychic powers they're not a joke.

>> No.56331523

>>56330496
Probably Sanguinius, even Curze liked him.

>> No.56331587

>>56331410
>Implying the Emperor was not a total retard when dealing with human psychology
Primarchs were a mistake

>>56331108
The question is : how good are they without precog, biomancy, etc. ?

>> No.56332010

>>56331231
>Lucius was once almost beaten by a TS swordmaster
>Somebody lost to Lucius
Its confirmed Thousand Sons are the worst legion.

>> No.56332056

>>56332010
Yeah that may be Lucius' only victory now that I think about it

>> No.56332087

>>56332056
>>56332010
Lucius doesnt even win does he? Pretty sure Ahriman stops the fight.

>> No.56332098

>>56332056
Lucius suffers fucking horribly from the Worf effect, at least Fulgrim is enough of a cocky but successful dick to balance out Lucius' constant failure.

>> No.56332114

>>56332087
I mean he won the fight, he just wasn't able to strike the killing blow. Still I get the feeling that the Thousand Son wasn't really trying. Honestly short of killing a primarch I don't think anything can bring Lucius back from being a complete joke.

>> No.56332361

>>56332098
Fulgrim also benefits from the single highest primarchs kill count

>> No.56332367

>>56331587
I'd say still pretty high up the totem pole as far as regular marines go. Against other dedicated melee units they'd lose without their psychic powers.

>> No.56332425

>>56331108
>Does anyone even remember how well he did playing baseball
Everyone remembers, because he was getting soft-balled by opposing players who were fans and he was still bad.

>> No.56332499

I know this is more 40k related but I just finished burning of prospero and it's stuck in my head

Who would win if space wolves faced off against the minotaurs?

>> No.56332525

>>56332114
Has he carved himself up and lost to Cyrus yet? Because I imagine they could revitalize him after that.

Though, his whole gimmick was always about him losing.

>> No.56332544
File: 1.14 MB, 1000x904, Navar Hef.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
56332544

>>56331329
Sad.

>> No.56332566

>>56332499
The Wolves almost jobbed to the TSons of all people even after Magnus sabotaged the defences, while the Minotaurs are literal whos who are the bottom bitches of the High Lords.

The only victory would be if someone else put them both out of their misery.

>> No.56332813

>>56330440
>Primaris
>Horus Heresy
That actually hurts to see.

>> No.56332814

Legionary Fighting Ability Power Rankings:

Tier 1: Sigismund, Kharn, Sevatar
Tier 2: Abaddon, Corswain, Azkaellon
Tier3: Lucius, Sharrowkyn, Argel Tal

Can't think of many others at or near that level.

>> No.56332823

>>56332814
Put Amit up there in tier 1.

>> No.56333097

>>56332813
>That actually hurts to see.

Does it hurt any more than people using Indomitus legs to make truescale marines?

>> No.56333246

>>56333097
No, doing that just makes 'em look ridiculous. But I moved exclusively to HH because I hate what they've turned 40k into, so seeing those models in 30k colours annoys me more than it should.

>> No.56333327

>>56332814
Pretty much any of the first captions it appears. Amit should be second or first teir though.

>> No.56333497

>>56333097
Maybe if you are going to make truescale marines actually put in effort.

>> No.56333521

>>56332525
>Though, his whole gimmick was always about him losing.
Before the Heresy series started his whole gimmick originally was that he was the best swordsman who had never lost a duel until Cyrus killed him after the heresy. Now he's just a guy who writers have their favourite character defeat to prove how badass they are.

>> No.56334156

>>56331329
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xN0VAsJElX4

>> No.56334542

New 30k player here and starting a Thousand Sons army soon. Where can I find a list of all the Psychic powers?

Also, any tips in general for a new player?

>> No.56334678

>>56334542
Read the tactics page on 1d4chan. Also check the OP for resources

>> No.56334734

>>56332814
I: Sigismund > Kharn > Lucius

II: Abaddon > everybody else

>> No.56335107

>>56334734
I AM MAD TO BE MELEE COMBANTANT

>> No.56335436

>>56332361

Killing fifty clones of Ferrus Manus is just respawn camping like a bitch.

>> No.56335466

>>56332499

Okay, I have been a Wolves fan since before some of you were born, and it comes down to 25 years of plot armor vs the late Alan Bligh's IA10 fanwank of mysterious loyalist Iron Warriors.

All decided by who Gee Dubs wants to pimp harder for sales that year.

>> No.56335578
File: 995 KB, 882x1038, Sevatar.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
56335578

To the anon in the last thread who insisted that Sevatar died in the battle of Terra, I object- assumes facts not in evidence. He is still in a detention cell on the Invincible Reason in the current plot.

Theories are:

1. Since he is a psyker now, he gets picked up by Malcador for the GKs. ADB hinted at that with the tomb scene in The Emperor's Gift.

2. Gets kicked out into the void with scraps of loyalist NLs, the ex-XIX Legion Ashen Claws and other Terran RGs, and they become the Carcharodons (an anon posted once that Alan Bligh told him that before he died)

Or 3. Like the Joker, or his daddy Konrad Curze, he magically escapes, and ends up back with the NLs to die on Terra.

No one knows yet. And since ADB whines on Facebook to the Sevatar fans how much he actually dislikes Sevatar, I don't expect a happy end.

>> No.56335715

>>56334542
guard of the crimson king

>> No.56335724

>>56335578
He's dead before Curze in the Night Lords trilogy.

>> No.56335805

>>56334542
>Also, any tips in general for a new player?
Make an army you enjoy building and playing over making the strongest army list possible. If you like tanks, take tanks even if your legion doesn't get bonuses to tanks. If you like hordes of space marines take hordes of marines even if your legion doesn't benefit much from them.

>> No.56335816

>>56335436
Well he did almost kill Guilliman, and the fight was so one-sided that skill wise he might as well have. Even without that he still has the first primarch kill and was the first or second daemon primarch (unsure whether he or Angron was first).

>> No.56335845

Do we know when the new rulebook is being released?

>> No.56335920

>>56335816
He DID kill Bobby G. He only got better because of plot magic

>> No.56336013

>>56335724

Reported dead. Did anyone see it? Or was he believed dead in the fighting on the Invincible Reason? Mercutian said he believed Sevatar still lived, which would have been a fine fucking trick after all that time.

>> No.56336584

Which is better, Castellax or Domitars?

>> No.56336684

>>56335920
>He DID kill Bobby G
no

A fatal injury for sure, but the dude never bought the farm. Don't count your dead chickens until they actually die.

>> No.56336798

>>56336584
Castellax except against dreads or mc. But with darkfires castellax work for that to.
- Castellax are troops (im putting this as a negative as they can't score.)
+ much better shooting naked against inf
+ cheaper, allows for stuff like eta and power blades typ make em even better.
The domitaur however has defensive grenades ok anti mc / light vehicle shooting and concussive without giving up a melee attack. Its also slightly faster then castellax as long as you keep it in controller range.

In the end i think the price is the deciding factor as while their attacks are potent. They lack the numbers required to not get swamped by tacs or worse and domitars are 100% less useful then an artalax.

Both however are much better pom recipients then a lone castellax. (If you don't have a thanny - But is argue that they don't really need pom

>> No.56337401

Are Coronus (Coroni ?) grav carriers worth their points since you can deep strike any Custodes infantry unit instead for cheaper ?

>> No.56337466 [DELETED] 

>>56336684
Well in the end Yvraine turnde off Bobby's life support and he died.
Sh he died.

>> No.56337588

>>56337401
Id argue that transports are almost always neccesary. Especially for low mobility infantry that costs hundreds of points. They allow you to bypass your primary weakness of tarpits and typhons / vindis / dusas.

>> No.56337592

>>56337401
coronus grav carriers are hands down the most undercosted unit in an already OP army list so you should take at least one of them. remember you don't have to deploy in the dedicated transport so you can just have a giant golden monster dildo with a flare shield shooting shit on its own.

>> No.56337597

>>56336684
Well in the end Yvraine turned off Bobby's life support and he died.
So he died.

>> No.56337688
File: 3.99 MB, 4128x3096, 20171108_223538.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
56337688

Hey guys, brand new 30k player here. After years of owning the books i finally put together a Sons of Horus army. Ive got 90 bolter dudes, 10 Chainsword dudes, 2 dreadnoughts, 1 kheres contemptor, 20 cataphractii, 5 tartoros, 5 justaerin, 5 reavers, 2 drop pods, 1 rhino, 1 land raider, 1 predator (executioner, c beam, melta), 4 centurions, 3 praetors, and abaddon/loken combo. I only recently got back into 40k (using the home brew it edition 30k). Is what I have any good?

>> No.56337702

>>56337688
OH and 2 javelin attack speeders.

>> No.56337907
File: 5.48 MB, 4128x3096, 20171105_181826.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
56337907

>>56337688
And here's a closeup picture of some. I'm trying to decide whether o not with my new guys to give the sergeants centurion plumes. I think it really helps them stand out and maybe top knots for one or 2 guys in each squad. But I don't know if that would make them look like loyalists more with centurion plumes instead of the gang pack members they're supposed to be.

>> No.56338032

>>56337688
Looks pretty nice collectionwise, might wanna beef up the reavers and tartaroses and get some more armor stuff. Nice having so much of it painted as well. What's the latest thing you painted? Im surprised you didn't improve more then what you show in the progress of having almost 200 marines.

>> No.56338183

>>56330416
pls don't die Lion

>> No.56338229

>>56335845
Every fucking thread, check the FW community website.

>> No.56338758

>>56332361
One? He's on par with Dorn.

>> No.56339029

>>56338758
I think it's fair to count Guilliman as a kill too.

>> No.56339068

Does anybody know when the Horus Heresy books reach the Terra War??

>> No.56339089

>>56339068
no

>> No.56339303

>>56339068

By the time that happens we'll have probably already reached the 31st millennium.

>> No.56339355

>>56335816
Magnus was the first deamon primarch.

>> No.56339379

>>56330416

FFFFFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUU

>> No.56339615

I only have the two red books, but do Primarchs count as your compulsory HQ?

>> No.56339626

>>56338032
Latest thing was just putting another wash on absolutely everything to darken them up. The guys in the second pic, including loken, I got off ebay. So 90%of my forces don't match them. And I have a bunch of forge world sons of horus and lupercal green to use, but my airbrush has been broken for so long I couldn't use them. Having so much infantry and a lack of anti-tank kinda worries me, but the only non expensive option I see is getting a bunch if heavy support squads. But again, that's a ton of infantry my opponent could just focus on.

>> No.56339668

>>56339626
Speeders are excellent at And you have plenty of lascans in threads

>> No.56339680

>>56339668
Not sure I understand, I think autocorrect got you. I know I have the 2 speeders, and the predator that I can put out a melta and my landraider has some lascannons, but I've NEVER had good luck with lascannons. They always whiff a roll or something and then my infantry in my renegades army have to do all the heavy lifting, which is hard for untrained muppets.

>> No.56339724

>>56330131
Was he right?
"All empires are forged in blood,’ ‘To pretend otherwise is naïve. The rule of law cannot be maintained by the blind hope that human nature is inherently good."?

>> No.56339754
File: 3.51 MB, 4128x2322, 20171110_081807.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
56339754

>>56338032
Here's the paint difference

>> No.56339781
File: 202 KB, 600x700, 7c6.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
56339781

>>56339754
>dat left marine
That's some great improvement but how did you start out so bad?

>> No.56339793

>>56339615
No, they are a LoW choice, but the Primarch's Chosen FoC makes them HQ.

>> No.56339931

>>56339303
Are they not done with Ultramarines/Battle of Calth stuff? Terra War should be the next step, right?

>> No.56340012

>>56336684
What happened to Big G is equal to what happened to Horus in Davin.
He was practically dead, only the powers of the warp managed to bring him back to life

>> No.56340063

>>56339781
That was ebay

>> No.56340525
File: 550 KB, 1000x1096, Some one begs to differ.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
56340525

>>56338758

>> No.56340543

Rate my list lads. I'm the retard from yesterday who will have two Proteus regardless of if they're shit.

Sons of Horus / Rite of War: Primarch’s Chosen

HQ

Horus the Warmaster - 500

Elites

10x Justarin Terminators - 455
2x multi-meltas - 50
5x power fists - 25
chain fist - 10
= 540

Contemptor-Mortis Dreadnought - 155
2x Kheres pattern assault cannons - 25
extra armour - 5
= 185

Troops

10x Veterans - 160
10x combi-weapons - 100
artificer armour - 10
= 270

10x Veterans - 160
10x combi-weapons - 100
artificer armour - 10
= 270

Fast Attack

3x Jetbike Sky Hunters - 135
multi-melta - 10
melta bombs - 5
= 150

Heavy Support

Land Raider Proteus - 180

Land Raider Proteus - 180

Sicaran Battle Tank - 165
lascannon sponsons - 40
armoured ceramite - 20
= 225

Total: 2,500

>> No.56340560

>>56340525
Meant for >>56339029

>> No.56340563

>>56340012
Yncarne is not related to the Warp though.

>> No.56340798
File: 21 KB, 600x620, 99590101261_LegionReconSquad06.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
56340798

How does /hhg/ model recon armour? Do you just put big boy marine heads on scout bodies, or is there more to it?

>> No.56340874
File: 724 KB, 1213x1280, scout concept.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
56340874

>>56340798
Old school with some spare bits lying around.

>> No.56341404

>>56340563
Yncarne is a fucking daemon.
And Ynned who ressurected Guillman after he was killed is a warp god, just like Slaanesh.

>> No.56341583

>>56330928
Most of the legion got a special tip top melee special unit.

Anyways the TS are still astartes, it's easy to forget that. Astartes first, psykers second.

>> No.56341635

>>56332814
Eidolon is good too, he didn't become lord commander because of nothing. He's a huge dick, but still lethal as fuck.

>> No.56341715

>>56332814
Sanakht, tier 3

>> No.56342223

>>56339680
Vets and reavers are the SoH's bread and honey. Justaerin are just a bonus.

Some advice from a long time SoH player. Bully your opponent like a Night Lord and benefit from better shooting and reserves. That means take care to send your units to eliminate something you know they can eliminate. Don't send them into a fair fight unless you absolutely have to interdict that enemy unit.

Reavers. I know a lot of people run them cheaply with chain axes. I run mine somewhat expensive in two ways

1. Full squad (15) with jump packs, chain axes, and volkite chargers. 30 BS5 St5 shots. 65 st5 ap4 attacks on the charge plus merciless fighters attacks (sometime all 15) at initiative step 1 means a lot of wounds that have to be saved against most infantry. These guys work best against mechanicum thallax, ursarax, scyllax, vorax, adsecularis, and secutaris. They just delete those units with aplomb. But they're also great at taking down rapier crews, tactical squads, or any other non assault-oriented marine unit. Assassins eye is great at lumping your 6s to hit (both shooting and assault) on that powerfist wielding sargeant to limit the recourse to your guys.

2. 11 reavers. Jump packs. 5 Combi-meltas (for tackling vehicles). 5 combi-plasma (for tackling heavy infantry like terminators) Chieftan has combi-flamer. All have banestrike for ap3 rending. This unit can tackle exactly one heavy infantry unit with bs5 plasma, one vehicle with bs5 melta, and as many typical marine squads as they like with banestrike (assassins eye makes the banestrike even better as you can somewhat target your to wound rolls by allocating some hits and therefore rending to a degree). Basically they bounce around the board and delete a vehicle, then maim or delete a heavy infantry squad, the go looking for softer targets.

>> No.56342370

>>56342223
*61 attacks on the charge

>> No.56342489
File: 2.39 MB, 1365x661, oAocXNO.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
56342489

>>56342223
>1. Full squad (15) with jump packs, chain axes, and volkite chargers.
It would pay off to add an apothecary w/volkite to that squad.

But yeah, the SoH have the fierce bravado that really jigs my jimmies.

>> No.56343027

>>56342489
At first glance I couldn't tell if these were IV, VI, or XVI legion.
Then I saw the Eye.

>> No.56343128

>>56342489
Yeah that works too. If I'm running black reaving I like to attach a Master of Signals to one of the two aforementioned units. With the first Jump Pack, volkite charger, and power axe (I know that means no merciless fighters bonus but it adds ap2) With the second, I run a jump pack and two plasma pistols.

He bounces with the squad for a turn or two depending on the circumstance, adding to their shooting and assaults then leaves to drop an orbital bombardment or bounces to help another squad's shooting.

>> No.56343261

>>56343128
Also 5pts hand flamer on Chieftain won't hurt, as he retains bolt pistol for gunslinger surprise.

>> No.56343374

>>56343261
I don't really care for hand flamers. I've seen em work en masse with ashen circle (just a ton of dice being rolled essentially) and they tear up auxilia and militia with their t3, but even as a reactionary measure against charges, I don't like em. If I'm being charged with my SoH army, it means it's my fault and I didn't position correctly, especially if they have jump packs.

>> No.56343762

>>56342489
>fierce bravado

Yeah. They hit HARD inside 12" with death dealers and merciless fighters. Veterans with marksmen or machine killers become that much better. Chain axe reavers are brutal. Super aggressive.

It's like they don't excel at any one thing like artillery or vehicles or assault or shooting like some legions. Justaerin are rock hard but aren't terribly focused and are quite versatile (in a good way). Reavers likewise. They really suit their aggressive ethos and are really good if you use em that way. Up close they shoot better and attack more. With the right loadout it's a tough combo.

>> No.56343788

>>56340543
Can Justaerin score? I assume Horus is going with the Justaerin? Overall not too bad, although it has very few squads. I might recommend splitting the Justaerin into two squads of 5 simply to spread out your firepower or maybe go 5 justaerin and 5+ generic terminators. Right now your list has a weird triple death star thing going on, which while not inherently bad can be very easily countered by some lists.

>> No.56343832

>>56340525
>Guilliman vs. Fulgrim
>Goddamn why did I get tricked by Fulgrim?
>Goddamn why did I try to fight Fulgrim 1v1?
>Goddamn why did I order a company of marines to their deaths to rescue me?
>Oh go the poison feels so fucking relaxing.
>I just want to take a nap.
Fulgrim vs. Guilliman was a hilariously one-sided fight and perfectly illustrates that even after his fall Fulgrim is a masterful fighter and general.

>> No.56343852

>>56343788
Justaerin are always counted as scoring so long as it's a mission where normal troops are counted as scoring (almost all the time).

>> No.56343901

>>56343832
It's interesting. I'd say out of all the legions, the EC and UM are the most similar. Both primarchs treated their legion like a toolbox rather than a tool. The use of combined-arms full-spectrum warfare with the right proportion of elements for the job.

>> No.56343917

>>56340563
Of course it is.
Remember, warp does not imply in chaos

>> No.56343929
File: 1.70 MB, 3264x2448, The reports of my death may have been greatly exaggerated.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
56343929

Will GW retcon iconic events for dosh?

>> No.56344007

>>56343901
Both also had a thing for formalized doctrines, with the EC rivaling the UM when it came to doctrine autism. Had Guilliman gone traitor and Fulgrim stayed loyal I could easily see Fulgrim writing his own equivalent to the codex astartes.

Overall though I would consider Fulgrim (and many other primarchs) a bit of a mix of two others. Fulgrim is a bit like Guilliman and Sanguinius (and has the colours to match); Fulgrim has the same focus on diverse capabilities in warfare and formalized doctrines of Guilliman but had the same focus on doctrine, aesthetics, and idealization of humanity of Sanguinius. Before his fall I don't think there were many if any primarchs who were as pro-human as Fulgrim.

>> No.56344075

>>56343929
Eeee it was this way since... always.

>> No.56344336

>>56343929
As a NL player, I hope not. Curze being alive would destroy his tragic story.

>> No.56344348

>>56344075
Speaking of, why was it generally accepted that he's dead, when the video shows him smiling at the camera?

>> No.56344386

>>56344007
>pro human

That's why he was opposite Ferrus, Ferrus strived for strength and perfection by eschewing human-ness, Fulgrim by embracing.

Opposites:
Horus: Pure talent and skill, extroverted
Lion: Pure talent and skill, introverted

Fulgrim: See above
Ferrus: See above

Perturabo: Strategic and logistic genius, selfish
Dorn: strategic and logistical genius, selfless

Khan: Insular, open-minded, loner, upfront and direct.
Alpharius: Insular, open-minded, loner, deceitful and indirect.

Russ: Strength through talent, instinct, and impetuousness.
Magnus: Strength through skill, knowledge, and prudence.

Curze: Achieves goals through setting an example, uses massacre, terrorist.
Corax: Achieves goals through setting an example, avoids massacre, freedom fighter.

Sanguinius: Ethical and restrained outright martial prowess
Angron: Unprincipled and unbridled outright martial prowess

Gulliman: Leadership and success through logic, doctrine, and experience
Lorgar: Leadership and success through emotion, Ideology, and faith

Mortarion: Strength through self sufficiency and indoctrination
Vulkan: Strength thought self sufficiency and understanding

>> No.56344396

>>56344348
Because Curze was happy for dying.
Besides, in the Night Lords trilogy Talos mentions that he saw his father dying.

>> No.56344573

>>56344348
Curze wasn't afraid to die, in fact, he welcomed the relief from his fevered precognitive dreams.

>> No.56344667

>>56344386
These are fairly good comparisons, though I've always pinned them more like this:

>Horus vs Guilliman
Both "exemplars" of political leadership and tactics, both fond of humblebragging and relatively egotistical.
>Fulgrim vs Sanguinius
Both exemplars of aesthetics and skill, but Fulgrim does it tryhard and vaingloriously where it just comes naturally to Sanguinius (the selfish vs selfless dichotomy). The other difference is Fulgrim denies his dark side but ends up reveling in it, while Sangy is aware of it and fights it.
>Russ vs Angron
One is Conan the Barbarian without any real problems, the other is Spartacus with survivor's guilt and a supervillain-tier curse that basically forces him to be evil. Both embody the "barbarian" mindset and image, but the truth is Russ is a mercenary brute who enjoys it for its own sake, while Angron had a sense of justice and was pushed into it by injustice.

The others are either correct (Dornaturbo and Curze vs Corax), or less on-the-nose because they didn't build two characters around the same archetype, or in the case of Khan don't really have much going on character-wise.

>> No.56344721

>>56344667
>Russ is a mercenary brute who enjoys it for its own sake
I see nothing wrong with this as long as the one doing it doesn't end up a stray.
>Angron had a sense of justice and was pushed into it by injustice.
Two wrongs don't do a right.

>> No.56344767

>>56344667
>Angron
>Justice
He was a certain kind of idealist, but I don't really think he cared about justice

>> No.56345270

>>56344386
Analogs:

Lion & Curze: While their notions of right, wrong, honor, and justice are different, they behave according to their extremely high standards regarding them.

Fulgrim & Gulliman: Proud, use of combined arms, master administrators. Cult of personality (even though Gulliman would never admit it).

Perturabo & Ferrus: Fondness for direct pitched high-intensity conflict. Engineer mindset with voracious appetite for knowledge. Tinkers. Denigrate the weakness they see in others. Close ties to mechanicum.

Khan & Magnus: Better the devil you know regarding psykers. Mature and prudent, but irresistible once committed. Both have proclivities to mobile fluid warfare.

Russ & Angron: Dogs of war. (Wolves and War Hounds). Destroyers. Impetuous. Geno(xeno)cide experts.

Sanguinius & Horus: The exemplars. Aggressive, political, everyone likes them. The operate their legions similarly, overwhelming decisive engagement.

Corax & Alpharius: Subterfuge, misdirection, and the precise application of force. From the shadows or an unexpected quarter, secretive.

Need help with Dorn, Lorgar, Vulkan, Mortarion.

>> No.56345514

>>56345270
Curze & Sanguinius: One sees the future and believes existence to be futile, the other sees the future and has hope for the hereafter.

>> No.56345727

>>56345270
Mortarion is a destroyer as well. The reaper of worlds. Unrelenting until the scythe has fallen.

>> No.56346228

>>56345514
To be fair, Sang isn't having HORRIBLE NIGHTMARE VISIONS It's called life Dib,
sit down
on a regular basis. Of course he had trouble wrestling with the idea that Horus, his beloved brother, would one day kill him, Curze was going through a Clockwork Orange montage of the horrors of humanity and the universe at large.

>> No.56346446

>>56345514
>One sees the future and believes existence to be futile
That's not true at all.
In fact, one of the reasons he went rogue is because he saw what the Imperium would become and thought the Emperor was the cause of it. He really only got hopeless during and after the heresy, as his dreams devoured his sanity.

>> No.56347104

>>56343832
Ive never read any details on their fight. Is it Dark Imperium?

>> No.56347129

>>56332361
But that's Russ.

>> No.56347181

>>56347129
>this is what space yiffs actually believe

>> No.56347236
File: 194 KB, 960x609, russ.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
56347236

>>56347181
Pls no bully space corgi supreme.

>> No.56347259

>>56347236
>some say

>> No.56347273

>>56347236
SOME SAY

>> No.56347309

>>56347259
>>56347273
>/hhg/ splits their time between complaining that BL ruined the heresy by removing all the mystery and assuming anything that isn't confirmed by word of god is bullshit
Sad!

>> No.56347379
File: 68 KB, 468x707, ObviouslySecondPrimarch.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
56347379

>>56347273
>>56347259

>> No.56347390

>>56347309
We already know that one of the primarchs got #Rangdan'd. This makes the statement that "some say" false.

>> No.56347502

>>56347236
>horus heresy isn't as low a low as the lost primarchs
Man, those two must have REALLY fucked up badly.

>> No.56347541

>>56347502
I wouldn't put too much thought into that graph. Same people that said Death Guard were the 7th legion.

>> No.56347593

>>56344386
>Ferrus and Fulgrim
>Opposites

The fuck dude.

EC were the velvet glove to the Iron Hands. EC are one of maybe three Legions that count them as Sworn Brothers and their gameplay focuses synergize fairly well. Its a bit of a surprise if you aren't actually familiar with their relationship, but the two legions had an intense respect for their shared perfectionism even if they had equal and opposite approaches to it. The entire REASON Ferrus Manus flipped his lid and rushed into the dropsite massacre was that he was maddened with rage by the fact that Fulgrim was one of the few people he counted as a friend, making his betrayal much more personal.

>>56344667
>The other difference is Fulgrim denies his dark side but ends up reveling in it, while Sangy is aware of it and fights it.
Fulgrim didn't really have a "dark side" personality wise, he was flat out possessed. Its why I count EC as one of the few legions who didn't really gain anything narrative wise from the HH books, the closest thing they get to tragically ironic story arc is:
>"hey kids, don't talk to any alien swords you meet because they're probably daemons".

>> No.56347739

>>56347104
Yes. First chapter

>> No.56348001

>>56344386
How was Mortarion about indoctrination?


Hell, that's the imperium of mankind in a nutshell.

>> No.56349585

How do you model your Cyber-familiars or Cyber-occularis

>> No.56349649

>>56341635
I love that despite being the first captain of the Emperor's Children, quite possibly the most sword-obsessed legion, he wields a fuckoff hammer instead

An extra layer is added when you remember that Fulgrim, when competing with Ferrus to make the "perfect weapon" made not a sword, but a hammer

>> No.56349683

>>56349585
40k cyber-eagles or the small 25mm AoS gryph hound from Silver Tower.

>> No.56349701

>>56349649
Fulgrim with the hammer that he made is scary as fuck.

>> No.56349780

>>56347104
Yep long story short
>Fulgrim lead Guilliman into a trap
>Fulgrim and Guilliman 1v1
>Guilliman realizes he is horribly outmatched and calls for reinforcements
>Fulgrim pretty much calls Guilliman a pussy and calls in his own guys
>Guilliman get cut with a poison blade
>Guilliman is semi-conscious while his marines evacuate him
>Fulgrim kills them in droves as Guilliman's sons scramble to teleport him to safety

>> No.56349877

>>56342223

Unfortunately I have just the 5 reavers, no jump packs. It leaves most of their common usage out for me. And my models only have the chain axe pistol combo. And I try and always play WYSIWYG. I've got tact squads by the boatload. With what I stated I have in my first post, what strategies for SOH will work best?

>> No.56349905

>>56349701
Isn't he ridiculously powerful with it?

I mean, using a rule called "sublime swordsman" with a hammer ignored for the moment, it's ridiculously good with him right?

How do you cost that, anyway? 40+, a la Ferrus, or +35 a a Pert (I guess 5 is for Unwieldy?)

>> No.56349928
File: 377 KB, 1664x936, IMG_20171011_203127286-1664x936.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
56349928

>>56349585
Cyber-familliar is just another bit of miscellaneous Admech on my Archmagos somewhere. Occularis are pic related, which I'm about halfway through painting and botched the flesh slightly. Still passable, but looks slightly too much like someone's rubbed butter over the outer coils.

>> No.56349940

>>56349905
Concussive plus his ability to get extra attacks depending on initiative difference is insane in challenges.

I would put it around 45 to 50.

>> No.56350066

>>56349940
Even if you give it Unwieldy like it is for Pert, or is that ignored

>> No.56350322

>>56330440
End yourself.

>> No.56351601

>>56336013
Talos chases him and gets his head back.

>> No.56351612

>>56351601
Oops nevermind I'm extremely stoned and though you were talking about Curze, not Sevatar.

>> No.56352342

>>56335578
God, I hate ADB.

>> No.56353705
File: 375 KB, 718x538, 1326092782484.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
56353705

>‘Please, sir. They’ll kill us all,’ he said. His voice cracked.

>‘Yes. I expect they will.’ Oquin smiled sadly. ‘A harsh reaction when refusal is given, but far from abnormal in a compliance action. That’s what this is. A compliance for the Warmaster’s new Imperium.’ Oquin deliberately turned his back on Spall. ‘But as I learned when I took part in the slaughter of the Bathranin, Spall, some things are worth more than life. Perhaps worth more than the life of an entire world.

>‘Now, I am going to walk out of that door and give them my answer. Feel free to shoot me in the back. I am confident you won’t. Not if you remember even dimly what we were fighting for.’

>Oquin strode down the gallery, his bearing proud. Spall made a strangled noise in his throat. He kept his gun trained on the governor the whole way. The weapon wavered, his aim blurred by tears.

>He couldn’t do it.

>Mayder Oquin disappeared through the doors.

>Spall was still staring dumbly at his weapon when the din of boltgun fire echoed up the palace halls.

>> No.56354102
File: 61 KB, 1280x720, cum.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
56354102

>>56349928
>"We are sorbitol, maltitol, xylitol, mannitol, calcium, carbonite, lecithin, triglyceride & talc... You can call us Gum."

>> No.56354456
File: 39 KB, 1000x385, D69E2711-F787-4590-B697-E864BDBA8BBB.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
56354456

Wow these look terrible. Literally 3rd party “Viking Space Warrior” knockoff tier.

>> No.56354607

>>56354456
What's with FW making terminator power axes into chainaxes? I thought the frost axe was suppose to be some blade of space diamond ice while the frost blade was a chainsword.

>> No.56355165

>>56354456
They definitely look out of place for forgewprld, but I wouldn't say terrible. A lot of work went into them, but maybe that's the issue. Too unique, too much work put into the poses. The models are really detailed, but again, maybe overly so. My justaerin look like play dough men in conparision, or plebs standing next to some intricate looking viking gods.

>> No.56355326

>>56354456

It's the pube streaks of fur that do it for me. Why no sexy cloaks?

>> No.56355353

>>56354456
FW have given up on HH, so they're putting all their C grade sculptors onto it.

>> No.56355431

https://discord.gg/aCxDFuM
Join Wargames General, lads. It's a good time.

>> No.56355445 [DELETED] 

Do YOU play TTRPGs?
Do YOU like Warhammer 40,000?
Then /wgg/ is for (You)!

https://discord.gg/J8A3ZnS

>> No.56355512 [DELETED] 

>>56355445
>>56355431

Oh god I fucked up and double posted. Sorry mates.

>> No.56356126

>>56353705
I fucking love that story.

>> No.56356148

>>56330440
oLYMPUS Has FAELLEN

>> No.56356693

>>56356148
Nah, you're thinking of Caliban.

>> No.56357534

>>56354456
WOLFEN MAC WULFEN WULVES

Fucking FW failed to deliver decent norse Space Wolves and instead went the GW McWulfen route.

>> No.56357552

>>56357534
Lore-wise they were alright in Inferno

>> No.56358152

>>56356693
NOTHING HAPPENED ON CALIBAN

>> No.56358293

>>56358152
>when the custodes, grey knights, and the emperor all know you have fallen traitors but don't give that much of a fuck and tease you for hiding the fact.

Now they might not know the modern dark angels went full retard and blew up/scattered the fallen in the first place through a totally heretical time machine but still. Do they still have it btw?

The stupid part is there are traitors for every chapter so its not even a big deal.

>> No.56358329
File: 4.65 MB, 4128x2322, Not sorry.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
56358329

>>56339754

>> No.56358515

>>56343788

Is it too OP? I don't want to be the dickhead in our group, at the same time I want to make those Proteus worth it.

>> No.56358830
File: 26 KB, 220x290, pgtte_v3_race_altmer.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
56358830

>>56351601
Talos doesn't exist.

>> No.56358875

>>56358152
PLANETS JUST EXPLODE SOMETIMES, IT IS A COMPLETELY NORMAL THING

>> No.56358901

>>56358830
But the talons do

>> No.56358958

>>56354456
1 wound lmao

>> No.56359011

>>56354607
better yet if they allow wuffs to into chainaxe why the fuck didn't they allow world eaters termies?
>>56354456
i think it's the posing, they've got the worst poses of any termies to date the rest is actually fine

>> No.56359153
File: 50 KB, 600x620, 99550102261_ThousandSonsPraetor01.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
56359153

>Terminator with wizard robes
>FW actually doing it right
What are some other wizard archetype motifs, and what would be the wizard hat equivalent on a terminator?

>> No.56359529

>>56359011
>if they allow wuffs to into chainaxe why the fuck didn't they allow world eaters termies

Because those are frost weapons. Also, regular cataphractii power axes also got chainblades on them.

>> No.56359953

help me out lads. I can't pick a legion.

All infantry, no transports if possible, absolute minimum vehicles. Dreads and bikes are okay. I do like ZM and have plans for it, this is separate.

I like a fair chunk of the legions enough to paint them, but none of them except maybe Alpha Legion seem to be able to do what I'm after. (No Raven Guard.)

>> No.56359988

>>56359953
>All infantry
fists, ultramairnes, iron warriors, or world eaters

>> No.56359989

>>56359953
World Eaters, Blood Angels, or White Scars.

Go, go, go.

>> No.56359999

>>56358515
Not at all I was suggesting ways to make it slightly more competitive (or at least flexible). Death stars aren't a bad thing but they are concentrating a ton of points into small units making them prime targets. Your list currently has
>2 squads each with 10 combi-weapons
>1 Squad of 10 Justaerin
While any one of those units are good they are huge point sinks, for example a single vindicator if it can survive for long enough can absolutely destroy a huge chunk of your list. You might benefit from splitting up your army a bit, maybe taking two smaller units of Justaerin instead of one big one, since as long as your opponent doesn't have power fists Justaerin can outlast practically anything in CC between WS 5, 2 wounds, and AP 2 weapons

>> No.56360163

>>56359988
>>56359989
>all the foot legions have the difficult and/or metal schemes
naturally

Well, I did have my eye on Vigil Opertii for a bit, maybe I'll go that route.

>> No.56360176

>>56359953
>>56359988
>>56359989
>>56360163
How about death guard?

>> No.56360280

>>56360176
I personally don't dig the aesthetic of Death Guard. Part of the complaint I levy against Ultramarines, too, but they somehow got the rite that Alpha Legion should have, so... Yay?

>> No.56360338
File: 132 KB, 460x700, 1509872823157.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
56360338

>>56359999


>>56360280
Space Wolves are heavily infantry focused, power armour mostly if that's your thing.

>> No.56360381

>>56360338
I do like the 30k Wolves aesthetic, but I already have two and a half armies that are primarily grey or red.

>> No.56360382

>>56360338
Their compulsory infantry also has the ability to run/shoot bolters and assault, pack tons of power weapons, combat shields and some combi-weapons.

>> No.56360395

>>56360381
So paint them in the minty fresh style of their 40k brethren.

>> No.56360466

>>56359953
>All infantry, no transports if possible, absolute minimum vehicles. Dreads and bikes are okay.
Some ideas

World Eaters
>Hordes of CC marines
>Can pump up tac squads to strength 5
>No particular benefits to dreads but also no limitations fluff or rules wise
>Due to extra attacks their bikers are solid in CC

If assault marines are okay, Night Lords
>Terminators can deepstrike (no need for transports)
>When they outnumber the enemy (bulky models count as two guys for these purposes) you add 1 to hit and wound rolls in CC
>Raptors are solid units
>Can force Night Fighting to keep you safe from fire while you close the gap

Imperial Fists
>Terminators can deepstrike
>BS 5 bolters and heavy bolters all around (makes tactical squads a good bit better)

Iron Hands (paradoxically)
>Dreads can take blessed autosimulcra
>Characters can take cyber familiars (2+/3++ terminator sergeants, praetor can get a 3++ without sacrificing attacks)
>Count all shooting against them as -1 strength (bikers can't be IDed by str 10 weapons, regular marines can get an FnP even when being shot at by str 8 weapons)

>> No.56360587

>>56360466
Iron Hands are what I started working with, but I keot hitting a wall of how to get them across the damn table, since they can't reliably run and don't allow much in the way of fast units.

I'll have to give World Eaters closer consideration, though I don't care for white schemes much.

>> No.56361102
File: 198 KB, 810x987, tumblr_oknzh07dPd1w1b71do1_1280.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
56361102

>>56360587
do what I'm doing and keep it OG

>> No.56361155

>>56361102
How do you deal with the nerfed rules?

>> No.56361240

>>56360587
You could always make a shooty list.
>Terminators with reaper autocannons
>Lascannon dreadnoughts
>Autocannon heavy weapon squads
>Tactical blobs
>Apothecaries and primus medicaes everywhere you can

>> No.56361449

>>56359953
Blackshields using the Outlanders option.
50% of your infantry w/o transports may deepstrike
All your characters can buy rad grenades for cheap
Your basic infantry (Marauder squads, your unique unit) are basically veteran marines and can take Chainaxes, which means they are effectively S6 with the rad grenades.
They also get a few other fun toys.

Downside: no RoW, no Praetors, no Tactical Squads, no Drop Pods.

I'm not sure if much of that will even phase you.
All-in-all, I think Blackshields are what you're looking for.

>> No.56361498
File: 222 KB, 1984x728, 1506811061939.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
56361498

>>56349585
Aetherwings work pretty well, I think.

>> No.56361676

Titanicus interview bit:
>fully plastic because resin incapable of meeting projected demand
>initial hope to include the entirety of 30k was dashed because each model shrank down took "at least" a month of effort--"we'll do big robot battles and go from there"
>a warlord titan is 8 inches tall
>1-5 titans with a handful of knights per side, it slows badly beyond that
>amalgam of the oldest editions of AT/Epic
>early next year, something at Open Day?

>> No.56361808

>>56361676
>projected demand

Well, there are many people looking forward to it, but I myself can't get over the scale change.

>initial hope to include the entirety of 30k was dashed because each model shrank down took "at least" a month of effort--"we'll do big robot battles and go from there"

Perhaps this could have been avoided if they stuck with 6mm.

>1-5 titans with a handful of knights per side, it slows badly beyond that

Truly epic battles indeed.

>amalgam of the oldest editions of AT/Epic

I played the original Adeptus Titanicus and it was never that slow.

>> No.56361974

>>56361676
What interview? When?

>> No.56362000

Made a Thousand sons list for a 3000pt tournament

RoW:Guard of the Crimson King

HQ
Magnus
Praetor in Tartaros, paragon blade, ML3, Raptora

Elites
10xVeterans, Vexilla, Rhino, Asphynx shells, Sergeant w. Artificer, Power axe, Corvidae, ML!
10xVeterans, Vexilla, Rhino, Asphynx shells, Sergeant w. Artificer, Power axe, Corvidae, ML1
Terminators Cataphractii 4x Pair of LC, Sergeant w. Chainfist and Combi-bolter
ML1, Raptora
Terminators Tartaros 3x Power fist, 1x Chainfist, 1x Reaper AC, ML1, Raptora, Asphynx shells

Troops
Sekhmet Terminators 4x Force sword, Sergeant w. Force Maul, Raptora, ML2
Sekhmet Terminators 4x Force sword, Sergeant w. Force Maul, Raptora, ML2
Tactical Squad, Vexilla, Sergeant w. Artificer, Power Weapon, Corvidae
Tactical Squad, Vexilla, Sergeant w. Artificer, Power Weapon, Corvidae
Tactical Squad, Vexilla, Sergeant w. Artificer, Power Weapon, Corvidae
Support Squad, 5xPlasma, Rhino, Corvidae

Just the way I like it, a lot of infantry and psychic powers

>> No.56362009

>>56361974
Someone on dakka made this link to it:
https://youtu.be/5VONU2Ug5xU?t=3327

>> No.56362018

>>56361808
>Well, there are many people looking forward to it, but I myself can't get over the scale change.

But its not epic, no?

Personally I prefer bigger models. Usually much prettier

>> No.56362078
File: 448 KB, 479x738, Consul_Opsequiari_Bercim_Ovkul_II.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
56362078

>>56361102
I guess it's legit to use "chaplains" for disciplinary officers, we also got a scheme and heraldry for them.

>> No.56362094
File: 1.39 MB, 892x1200, Consul_Opsequiari_Bercim_Ovkul.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
56362094

>>56362078
>>56361102
Wrong pic

>> No.56362118

>>56362000
I prefer Biomancy Magnus so he wrestles dreadnoughts personally

>> No.56362160

>>56362118
Not decided on his psychic loadout yet. But been thinking of either biomancy or pyromancy. I guess it depends on the match up.

>> No.56362196
File: 17 KB, 320x320, skitarii-arc-maul.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
56362196

>>56362078
>>56362094
Skitarii arc maul might make a nice disciplinary shock maul for such a unit.

>> No.56362454

can buffs only be cast on the "self" unit, or can they be cast on any unit?

>> No.56363364

>>56362454
Does it have a range?

>> No.56364841

Looks like I can fit 25,900 points into the standard force org chart with a generic legion list, excluding fortifications or a lord of war (which could be worth just over 4,000 points - a psi-Warlord and a Redoubt).

Basically you take dedicated transport Land Raiders in every slot but Heavy Support, which is Malcador Squadrons.

>> No.56364981

>>56363364
I dont know, I dont have the book. but I'm thinking of all the biomancy powe

>> No.56365207
File: 148 KB, 573x1533, Biomancy.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
56365207

>>56364981
>I dont know, I dont have the book. but I'm thinking of all the biomancy powers

see image attached.
Iron Arm and Warp Speed are self-only, but Endurance has a range, and as such can be cast on others.

>> No.56366753

Playing Dark Angels, pretty set on Ironwing Protocol. What sort of tanks am I going to want for my army? Preferably stuff that even when my specific rules come out in the next book, I can still make use of most of it if I change my RoW.

>> No.56367196

Were nukes a common weapon during Heresy?

>> No.56367324

>>56337688
90 bolter dudes are pretty great because you can fill your FOCs with Combi-Plasma Vets, of which Sons of Horus have the second-best version.

>> No.56367389

>>56367196
Salamanders get melted at Istvaan V by one and it atomised Vulkan.I'm surprised none of the Primarchs died during the Crusade to those, but whatever.

Iron Hands exemplary battle had them getting the shit kicked out of them by small tactical nukes until Ferrus shows up. Otherwise they're not really present in Imperium forces, although I suspect that the Admech has absolutely no qualms about using them because of their second motto after "Ave Deus Mechanicus":

> "I am an Archmagos. I can do whatever I want."

>> No.56367447

>>56367196
No, because more powerful and reliable weapons exist. A barrage of melta and cyclonic torpedoes can destroy a planet, while it took 500 years of nuking to just make Kriegers angry.

Radiation weapons are another thing and used by legions and especially Mechanicum and later by Mechanicus. Admech even has a skitarii force that just irradiated everything around them.

>> No.56367513
File: 3.03 MB, 2304x1296, Destroyers.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
56367513

>>56367196
The Imperium does have nukes, but they rarely use them. In most cases, a nuke would cause too much collateral damage to a planet they're trying to bring into compliance, or settle at a later date. In addition, when the Imperium needs to go for the 'nuclear option', they have infinitely better weapon choices, most of which are capable of leveling cities without radioactive fallout. or flat out destroying the entire planet.

However, like Destroyer units, I they keep them on hand and use them in special cases.

>> No.56368133

>primarch is immortal
>primarch is just as tough as any other primarch
>authors proceed to murder said immortal primarch a million times to prove said immortality

Why is this allowed?

>> No.56368310

>>56368133
It’s the Wolverine Effect. If a character can regenerate then he’s coincidentally the one who constantly gets killed off. Hack writing, basically.

>> No.56368440
File: 335 KB, 320x218, Hint.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
56368440

>>56368133

>> No.56368445
File: 967 KB, 671x634, Bringers of Blessed Ruin.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
56368445

>>56367389
>"I am an Archmagos. I can do whatever I want."
"I am Archmagos reductor I can do even more and am strength 5."
Phosphex, phosphex everywhere.

>> No.56368491

>>56368445
The idea and concept of Phosphex makes me rock hard.

>> No.56368497
File: 55 KB, 625x262, joke.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
56368497

>>56368133
>primarch is for killing other primarchs
>lets not even acknowledge him killing anyone
>lets have him get his shit pushed in by everyone

Who said the Emperor didn't have a sense of humor?

>> No.56368523

>>56365207
If an independent character joins a unit and casts, say, iron arm on himself, does it affect the whole unit?

>> No.56368533

>>56368491
It's 30k N-Stoff.

>> No.56368571

>>56368533
Son, I don't know what that is.

>> No.56368610

>>56368571
Chlorine Trifluoride, which burns at 2400 degrees Celsius - twice the temperature of lava and almost enough to Boil steel - and can set fire to things that shouldn't burn like glass, wet sand or asbestos. The Nazis discovered it of course.

>> No.56368627

>>56368610
That makes me rock hard.
The burning at 2400 C not the Nazi

>> No.56368692

>>56368627
The Nazis manufactured it as a poison gas. But after an accident in which a spill burned through 30 cm of reinforced concrete and 90 cm of gravel beneath that, they went nope.

>> No.56368748

>>56368692
Me gusta.

>> No.56368843
File: 36 KB, 371x479, Angron_updated.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
56368843

Admit it; he did nothing wrong.

>> No.56368863
File: 134 KB, 947x843, AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
56368863

>>56368843

>> No.56368917
File: 313 KB, 1280x906, Warhounds.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
56368917

>>56361102
Warhounds for best World Eaters.

>> No.56368986

>>56368917
Hard men from Terra before they lost their mind with their primarch and nails.

Truly the best iteration.

>> No.56369066

>>56368843
I mean, he kinda borked Horus' entire plan for an easy victory at Istvaan III. Because he was pretty much braindead from the Nails at that point, he rushed in and prompted months of siege warfare trying to dig out loyalist forces from the Choral City, resulting in thousand of additional casualties for the traitor forces before they had even left their first battlefield.

It's like trying to blame a mentally retarded person. Sure, they might do something wrong, but their brain doesn't function the way it's supposed to so they can't do much about it even if they wanted to.

>> No.56369082

>>56345270
Which legion match ups to people like to see most from an ideological perspective though?

I like UM and AL because it's all about discipline and marshal prowess but always a question if the ends justify the means.

Also I think these legions actively antagonize each other the most. With UM always wanting to state build and AL always promoting anarchy as well as UM deifying their primarch and AL using his name as a tool.

>> No.56369083

>>56368627
It also releases hydrochloric acid gas when reacting with inorganic material, making it corrosive to inorganic material as it burns. When reactive with organic material it releases hydrofluoric acid, making corrosive to organic material as it burns.

It's self oxidizing so it can burn in a vacuum.

It's so reactive that it violently reacts and burns stuff that has already burned, like ash, or even fame retardant materials like asbestos.

Chlorinetrifuoride is as close to phosphex in real life as there is.

To paraphrase a NASA scientist who was looking into the substance as rocket fuel, the best safety equipment for chlorine trifluoride is a good pair of running shoes.

>> No.56369099

>>56369066
>months
Has that ever been confirmed?

>>56369083
I came.

>> No.56369328

>>56369066
>It's like trying to blame a mentally retarded person.

Yeah you don't blame him, you blame his handler.
If you don't want him to bite strangers you have to give him his nap by 3 and don't allow him any soda during lunch.

>> No.56369371
File: 114 KB, 911x671, 1366934805268.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
56369371

>>56369099
Not sure about months, but it's at least in the span of weeks. Still far more time than Horus was planning to spend.

>> No.56369402

>>56369328
The fact that anyone trusts a person named Angron with a critical decision making is just hilarious to me.

>> No.56369449

>>56369371
>span of weeks
>Still far more time than Horus was planning to spend.
I don't dispute this. I just thought that given the Legions who were the victim of the Massacre, the smaller legions, that they would have been "done for" given the weight of numbers stacked against them once the Betrayal was known.
Yes
>Astartes Resistance
>Astartes Pockets of Resistance
>Astartes
I understand that Medusan rallies the shattered legions and harries the Warmaster but he doesn't come close to opposing Horus on open ground like the remaining loyalists could.

>> No.56369493

>>56369083
So it's literally IRL Phosphex?

>> No.56369706
File: 3.57 MB, 1920x963, 1480999163567.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
56369706

>>56369449
Which case are you talking about? On Istvaan III, the loyalist forces that survived the virus bombing only held out as long as they did because they dug into a densely packed and ruined city that they could prepare defenses for, and because Angron ran in, preventing Horus from just bombarding the site from orbit. In the span of a few weeks, the remaining loyalists were down to (according to Galaxy in Flames) a little over 100 marines from the Sons of Horus, Emperor's Children, and World Eaters (no Death Guard were present, thought if any did survive they were completely separated due to landing in the outskirts of the city)

On Istvaan V, the Iron Hands, Salamanders, and Raven Guard deployed almost in full. A few thousand survived from each Legion, largely due to the sheer chaos of the Dropsite Massacre and luck in slipping past the blockades. The Dropsite Massacre itself was considerably shorter, but it took much longer to 'finish' due to pockets of Loyalists escaping into the ash wastes and waging a guerrilla war until they were either wiped out or rescued.

>> No.56369733

>>56369493
>IRL Phosphex

Phosphex has the additional effect of lingering and tainting the affected area forever (basically)

>> No.56369791

>>56369706
I'm trying to get a more accurate timeframe.
Istvaan III would have been a total blind-side and near white wash
Istvaan 5, less so, but the three loyalist legions were hammer and anvil'd decidedly.

>> No.56369956

>>56369066
Counter point. The battle on Istvaan III served to temper the traitors in blood and mindset. By the end of hostilities there were no more fair-weather traitors. All the surviving legionaries were committed, if only by the blood on their hands, and could never go back.

>> No.56370110

>>56369066
>giving your legionaries marked for death the opportunity to die honourably, taking personal responsibility for the purge instead of nuking them from orbit.
>doing something wrong
Pick 1. Also, what >>56369956 said.

>> No.56370124

>>56368523
Self means only the individual model casting the spell. I suppose if an entire unit with brotherhood of psykers or whatever rolled Iron Arm that would work but it feels like extreme bullshit (fuck you I have a unit of 10 S/T 7 terminators).

>> No.56370136

>>56368610
>Still can't come close to melting Tungsten
Is there any metal better than Wolfram?

>> No.56370161
File: 1.01 MB, 768x959, tumblr_maxv0rjOPt1r4nmedo1_1280.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
56370161

>>56369956
Horus only decided that after the fact. Angron did not land the remainder of the World Eaters, forcing the Sons of Horus, Death Guard, and Emperor's Children to commit as well, with some manner of plan in mind. Angron saw survivors and immediately ran off the leash.

Horus decided to make the best of a shitty situation that Angron created for him. And in the end, they still pulled out of the Choral City and bombed it from orbit once they were convinced they had killed off most of the loyalists, which was Horus' plan in the first place.

>> No.56370399
File: 745 KB, 1800x941, 1356121596121.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
56370399

>>56370110
Virus bombing the planet had already dashed any idea of an 'honorable death'.

>> No.56371741
File: 1.40 MB, 1366x768, 1436854667819.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
56371741

>> No.56371981

>>56369083
FOOF (or Difluoride Dioxide) is another good candidate, it's the most electron negative substance known to man.
If it comes into contact with water it tends to explode in a cloud of Hydrogen Fluoride gas which is nasty to put it mildly.
It makes mustard-gas look like perfume.
As far as I know it's only reasonably stable at -160 degrees Celcius (decaying at 4% per day into oxygen and fluorine), but even then it will light shit on fire on contact, including stuff like water ice.

This article is a short explanation what this substance is actually capable of: http://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2010/02/23/things_i_wont_work_with_dioxygen_difluoride

>> No.56371992

>>56369371
An EC dreadnought with a sword?

>> No.56372031

>>56371992
Death is no excuse to become less of a swordsman.

>> No.56372066

>>56372031
True, but it has no model or rules, so just an interesting conversion?

>> No.56372133

>>56359999

Nice quad mortars. I may have to pray to the Warmaster that anything that big a threat is dead before the veterans disembark. I originally just wanted to put tacticals in them.

>> No.56372617

>>56368610
>Nazis discovered it

It was discovered in Germany in 1930, Nazi Germany didn't become a thing until 1933.

>>56368692
Actually, the stuff was specifically intended to be used for those properties against the Maginot Line. But since they found a way around it, there was no need for it. I also believe they weren't able to even make that much of it.

>> No.56372659

>>56372617
All Germans back then were Nazis in waiting. haven't you read Goldhagen?

>> No.56372689

>>56372617
>Actually, the stuff was specifically intended to be used for those properties against the Maginot Line. But since they found a way around it, there was no need for it. I also believe they weren't able to even make that much of it.
Considering how insanely reactive and unstable it is, that's not surprising.

>> No.56373158

>>56372133
Honestly I think the primarch bomb is a bigger "issue." I mean if you enjoy your list go for it, but Horus and the Justaerin cost 1040 points alone, nearly half of your entire list. The idea behind splitting up the Justaerin is essentially "hey maybe don't have quite such excessive overkill." Since Horus and the Justaerin won't just kill everything in a single turn but they will kill anything in a single turn far too easily. Essentially you are wasting your firepower, like taking an entire 10 man heavy weapons squad with lascannons when your opponent's list is just a bunch of tactical squads in rhinos.

>> No.56373279

>>56340543
You've got a hell of a lot of artillery bait in that list. It's intimidating, but the problem is that you don't need 10 Terminators or 10 rapid-firing BS5 plasma guns + lascannon to kill most things whereas you're painting a massive target on three or four of your units. Horus alone will roll through pretty much anything, adding 10 2W 54ppm Termies is just begging for a Haywire squad, Medusa volley and/or grav out the ass plus literally anything that can Intercept doing so. Same with the Vets and their Raiders, although less so and I can see those being scary once in range.

>> No.56373754

>>56370136
>Still can't come close to melting Tungsten
>Is there any metal better than Wolfram?
It violently reacts and creates a flurode when it comes into contact with tungsten.
Store it in quarts, everything else goes south pretty quick.

>> No.56373784

>>56369402
That's the problem of the HH novels.
Primarchs are supposed to be geniuses far smarter than humans, but the writers completely failed in depicting it. It's impossible to write a character that is smarter than the writer himself

>> No.56373919

>>56373784
The problem? More like one of the less important problems with the novels. The whole series is a lesson in how not to write.

>> No.56373947

>>56373784
I wouldn't say impossible, since the writer has far more time to consider decisions than the characters may in the story allowing them to compensate for being less intelligent. Of course most authors just go the easy route of having the intelligent characters succeed through dumb luck, by knowing something they had no way of knowing, by making all their opponents idiots, or by simply telling us the character is a genius but never illustrating that genius in the story.

>> No.56375144

>>56373158
>>56373279

Well this list is costing me an insane amount of money... so I may drop 5 of the terminators and reduce it to 2000 points.

>> No.56375283

>>56375144
Honestly at 2k points I may suggest running Horus solo. He's survivable enough to deal with enemy fire on his own and being a primarch can deal with anything in CC that isn't fearless (so keep him away from tech thralls so they can't tarpit him for three turns).

>> No.56375877

>>56373919
How so?

>> No.56375933

>>56375283

I wouldn't feel comfortable dropping him by himself but I might just use some normal terminators.

>> No.56376021

>>56337688
I wish I had a large cohesive army like this. Instead I got a clusterfuck of about 1000 pts of IW & DG, and the odd half strength unit of NL, AL, WE and EC.

I just like painting different things, and can't stick to one big legion projected for a long time.

>> No.56376403
File: 1.62 MB, 3264x2448, IMG_0344.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
56376403

Hey lads! I recently have come into a small death guard army trading some stuff, only problem is I don't really want it. Pic related is what I got, it has as follows;

>20 tactical marines
>5 tactical support with flamers
>5 tactical support with meltaguns
>shitty BaC dread with converted head and twin assault cannon
>5 grave warden terminators
>2 quad launchers with crew
>set of the FW power scythes

Now I remember back from my /hhg/ days there were quite a few DGanons, so maybe one of you wants to buy it?

It's all in top shape, most primed and a few guys painted, so that's all good. I was thinking something like 220 for it all, don't really know how to price everything but it seems about right. Would anyone be interested? If not, where should I sell it, eBay or similar? Thanks in advance bros

>> No.56376459

>>56376403
Oh I should add I'm keeping the Tartaros for myself (they're not the best but I love em) and if you want more pics, I'm out of the house for the next few hours but would be happy to take them tonight.

>> No.56378030

Have BL putted Necrons into HH? We have Tyranids but what about Necrons?

>> No.56378109

>>56378030
I'm pretty sure there some story where some primarch (wanna say Sanguinius) met with some Necron character.

There's also the line in the Necron codex about Trazyn the Infinite having in stasis "a giant of a man clad in baroque power armor."

>> No.56378419

>>56378030
Necrontyr technology is around, the Alpha Legion even had the ability to construct some of the stuff.
The warp distortion that isolated the White Scars at the start of the Heresy was caused by an Alpha Legion station using a Necrontyr pylon cluster to becalm the warp around it, and spring up a storm near the White Scars.

Not sure if any tomb complexes are active, but it wouldn't be unlikely that the Crusade came across some on their conquests, and a Tomb World will start to wake up when disturbed.

>> No.56378665
File: 733 KB, 800x1200, Fulgrim.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
56378665

>>56378030
It's entirely likely they've shown up, even as some sort of cameo. Although most tomb worlds didn't start waking up until around 40k, there were occasional run-ins with Necrons for millennia, largely due to people poking around too intensely in Necron ruins.

So it's quite possible that a Legion woke up some 'Crons during a compliance action or while investigating a world to claim it for the Imperium, took some losses, beat the 'Crons up enough to send them back to sleep, and never thought about it again.

>> No.56378882

>>56376403
How much would you want for the two quad launchers/crew?

>> No.56378975

>>56378030
Ferrus Manus fought necrons and got his arms from the dragon/thing/necron thing he killed.

>> No.56379300

>>56378030
Hvarl Red-Blade literally had the techmarines remake a Necron Lord he killed into an axe.

>> No.56379353

>>56378109
Sang possibly met with the Silent King to talk about the tyranid threat, but it also sounds like it never actually happened and the Silent King was just making it up.

Making yet another pointless and confusing story from Laurie Goldberg.

>> No.56379711

I know they’ve said they wouldn’t do xenos in 30k to keep from losing focus on the heresy civil war.

With that said, I’d really like to see Rangdan, Orks, and Laer in 30k. Leaving eldar out because they’re probably still sorting themselves out from slaanesh’s birth. Neurons because they haven’t really started awakening yet and tau out for obvious reasons.

>> No.56379734

>>56379711
Necrons

>> No.56379868

>>56379711
Maybe include some Corsairs as allies to Blackshields.

While at Blackshields, it's implied in the Blackshield audio that Endryd Haar is a former Thunder Warrior. The Callidus that's on Xana, and privy to the Sigilite's knowledge, asks him, after commenting on the nature of the source of his rage: "Do you dream of thunder?"

>> No.56379966

>>56379868
He’s be one of maybe 3 total surviving thunder warriors. The other two being Ghota and Arik.

>> No.56379981

>>56379868
He’d

>> No.56380010

>>56379711
Xenos in 30k would be cool, but first they need to do all Legions and other Imperial stuff.

>> No.56380081

>>56380010
This. Finish Blood Angels, Dark Angels, and White Scars with every legion having it's special units and primarchs before anything else.

>> No.56380618

>>56379711
Even if they didn't physically add xenos to 30k, I'd love to get more fluff involving them (and by extension, the Great Crusade rather than Horus Heresy all the time). We know next to nothing about the Rangdan Xenocides, besides hints that it resulted in the elimination of an entire Legion as well as heavy losses among the Dark Angels and others that came to assist them. Plenty of other battles and events have been hinted at or glossed over, but the battles between Space Marines and Xenos are relatively few compared to HH material.

>> No.56381088

>>56378882
Don't really know. Each one is 33 pounds, so like 80~ burgerbucks for both. However buying secondhand is obviously the best, so like 60-70? I think 70 sounds good

>> No.56381098

Tabletop/modeling question, would it be legal to play Fulgrim if I modeled him with Forgebreaker?

>> No.56381144

>>56381098
It ain't strictly WYSIWYG, I'd say no.

For friendly games, yes sure.

Why not magetize the sword and the hammer? Best of both worlds.

>> No.56381193

>>56381144
I didn't think of magnets. As for game play, I read 1d4chan's Fulgrim mathhammer and I want to see if the numbers hold up on the table.

>> No.56381200

>>56378030
Mars and the Void dragon.

>> No.56381267

>>56379966
That part of Outcast Dead really bothers me. Given, one or two of the lesser TWs might be missed in the Emperor's victory slaughter, but thinking "Eh, the leader of the Thunder Warriors is not accounted for, fuck it"

>> No.56381268

>>56379711
DE was a thing back during the Crusade, Vulkan's homeplanet had a big DE problem for sometime.

>> No.56381331

>>56381268
Yes, but to the Imperium they were all Eldar. They didn't know that Eldar come in multiple flavors.

>> No.56381341

>>56381088
Bit too rich for my blood, then.

>> No.56381675
File: 91 KB, 800x450, 1493585777298.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
56381675

>>56379711
>>56381268
All Eldar were. Fulgrim and the Emperor's Children ran into Eldrad and a council from Ulthwe on a paradise world in Fulgrim. In one of the short stories a squad of Marines fought guerrilla actions against Dark Eldar that were pretty much farming a planet of human colonists (and then the marines killed the colonists once they won because they didn't want to be part of the Imperium). During the Great Crusade though, I imagine actual conflicts with Eldar were relatively limited (i.e. Dark Eldar raiding on backwater planets, Craftworld negotiation parties) because yes, they were still reeling from the birth of Slaanesh, and the Eldar didn't have the strength to deal with Great Crusade Imperium in force.

>> No.56381744
File: 221 KB, 666x675, tumblr_mj8d0u5aTW1rue4a1o7_1280.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
56381744

>>56381341
Not the seller, but unfortunately that's the price of Rapier batteries. Pretty damn expensive for such a small and relatively low point-cost piece and FW knows it so they keep the price up. And unfortunately, no one really does good support battery pieces that are the appropriate scale and armament.

>> No.56381823

I got mine for $15 each from China. Fuck FW if they wanna gouge.

>> No.56381824

>>56381744
FW is kind of dickish that way. I understand the premium for their stupidly broken super units, but they overcharge for everything, even the 'basic' units.

>> No.56381837

>>56381744
Aye, but with that small of a discount I may as well get 'em direct from FW when I do my next order.

>> No.56381938

>>56381267
Maybe Arik was in on it. Due to his loyalty was willing, understanding that it was necessary.

>> No.56382071

>>56381938
Then why hide in the slums? Given, that whole book is a gigantic clusterfuck of retarded without Arik saying "OK Emperor, kill them all, but let a few of us escape to suffer from your half assed engineering". It's a plot twist too far.

>> No.56382079

>>56372066
It's a dreadnought weapon for close combat, how does it not have rules?

>> No.56382147

>>56382079
He means no special rules.

>> No.56382149

>>56382079
This is GW. They wouldn't be what they are if they were competent enough to cover all the bases.

>> No.56382207

>>56382071
You’re probably right. Just trying to come up with something to tie up the loose ends.

>> No.56382307

>>56379711
the majority of orks in 30k could be represented by 40k orks. Not enough difference for a new list.

>> No.56382390

>>56382307
>7th orks

>> No.56382460

>>56337688
> chair force
Pls leave

>> No.56382495

>>56381837
Well what sounds good to you? I'm happy to sell at a good discount, does 60$ sound good?

>> No.56383146

>>56382307
Give them a few new units like big 'uns and maybe a near primarch ork unit to represent the really scary orks warbosses.

>> No.56383561

>>56352342

Why

>> No.56383830

>>56383561
One could write a small book on the subject. But that's pretty much any of the BL writers. Everyone has their own issue with them, whatever they may be.

>> No.56384136

New
>>56384131
>>56384131
>>56384131
>>56384131

>>
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