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56092450 No.56092450 [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

I have a theory. I think the reasons GURPS gets this much fanboyism is tied to D&D, 3.5 to be more precise.

Think about this, all these fanboys were brought up on 3.5. The sweet feeling of nostalgia about all the crunch and going through dozens of splatbooks. Sometimes later they realize that D&D is just a meme and then behold, they see GURPS, they get to relive their nostalgia fantasy with a billion of splatbooks and crunch.

Can any system which requires you to have a five to ten hours of pre-session preparation be considered a good system? Is this what attracts of the people who tried and failed to create theirs on systems? Is GURPS the biggest RPG meme after D&D?

>> No.56092465

Some people just like the game OP, chill out.

>> No.56092473

My theory is that no one who plays 3.5 brings it up anymore unless someone else mentions it.

>> No.56092482

>>56092450
Nah, you're just salty because people like fun that you don't.

You are why /tg/ is shit.

>> No.56092486

>>56092450
>Can any system which requires you to have a five to ten hours of pre-session preparation be considered a good system? Is this what attracts of the people who tried and failed to create theirs on systems? Is GURPS the biggest RPG meme after D&D?

Yes.

>> No.56092504

>>56092450
You’re pretty off-base I think.
Not even that many people play GURPS from what I’ve seen in real life despite it’s infamy on here, but it definitely works as a lazy meme answer to “what system can do [blank]” because GURPS actually CAN do pretty much anything if you work at it enough and use the right rulebooks since you construct everything near from scratch.
You notice you never find anyone defending it or extolling the glories of the system most days because most of the time on here people use it as a way to pretend like they’re participating in a conversation, or even just to post because they’re stuck on 4chan and they don’t have anything better to do but post anymore.

>> No.56092533

>>56092482
No, I am genuinely curious as to why people always answer all /tg/ related questions with"GURPS" without adding relevant information.

>What is a good beginner system for my group?
>GURPS

For fuck sakes, I have seen this happen too many times. Have any of you faggots who actually recommend GURPS, even played it?

>> No.56092711

>>56092450
But I only ever tried 3.5 after GURPS and didn't like it.

>> No.56092723

>>56092533
>Have any of you faggots who actually recommend GURPS, even played it?
Of course not you fucking idiot. People just answer GURPS all the fucking time because telling OP to play GURPS is a meme.

You'll notice there's also a lot (comparatively few, though) of posts proposing GURPS, and saying why it'd fit or how they used it for exactly OP's idea in the past, or which of the thousands rulebooks would fit.

>> No.56092739
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56092739

>>56092450

>> No.56092769

GURPS is /tg/'s version of Gentoo. It was originally a purposely obtuse answer just to fuck with normies and casuals who happened to stumble upon /tg/ but over time it got elevated to something /tg/ people sincerely play.

t. /g/entooman

>> No.56092794

>>56092450
>five to ten hours of pre-session
how the hell are you managing that?

>>56092533
That's called a joke. Like how you post "Is that a FAMAS?" everytime you see a bullpup that isn't a FAMAS on /k/. Or "THIN YOUR PAINTS" when someone asks for painting tips.
It could have been any of the main universal systems; Palladium, Savage Worlds, Open D6 or FATE, amongst others, but it's GURPS. That's all.

And besides, GURPS is a system with good gunplay, and is good for running modern and sci-fi games, with the modularily being a nice bonus if you want to do something like modern fantasy or wierd war two.

>> No.56092847

>>56092450
I started with GURPS when I was 15 in 2013, and it was 3rd Edition at that. Before that point, I only had a passing interest from when my dad gave me a copy of the Rules Cyclopedia a few years prior to that.

I read the GURPS rules like I read the Rules Cyclipedia, and concluded on my own that if I wanted to run or play a game that I would use GURPS because the rules were clearer.

>> No.56092924

Here in Brazil we got conditioned to hate girls in the late 90s and early 2ks, because our only source of information was a terrible magazine run by terrible people. One of the editors wrote a book about some magical realm aliens and asked Peter Jackson for a GURPS of it's material, which was denied for obvious reasons. The guy then made a monthly effort to insult the system and it's players by refusing to create articles with GURPS in it and the multi-system ones would have a note telling why no GURPS (a Matrix adaptation for instance, said that the system was too realistic for such surreal scenario). This made most readers fall for it and despise the system, while those that were aware did nothing until dnd 3.0 came and the magazine became almost dnd only, until everyone got bored and stopped buying it. GURPS became a symbol of resistance against "the one system", a joke commonly spread in that time.

>> No.56092935

>>56092924
>Hate gurps
Damn autocorrect.

>> No.56092976
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56092976

>>56092924
>we got conditioned to hate girls

this whole paragraph

my sides

>> No.56092989

>>56092924
>that typo
Thanks for fighting the stereotypes, brazilbro.

>> No.56093075
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56093075

>>56092924
>Here in Brazil we got conditioned to hate girls in the late 90s and early 2ks, because our only source of information was a terrible magazine run by terrible people. One of the editors wrote a book about some magical realm aliens and asked Peter Jackson for a girl, which was denied for obvious reasons. The guy then made a monthly effort to insult them by refusing to create articles with girls in it and the multi-system ones would have a note telling why no girls (a Matrix adaptation for instance, said that women was too realistic for such surreal scenario). This made most readers fall for it and despise the system, while those that were aware did nothing until dnd 3.0 came and the magazine became almost dnd only, until everyone got bored and stopped buying it. Girls became a symbol of resistance against "the one system", a joke commonly spread in that time.

>> No.56093096

>>56092924
All jokes aside, this is actually fascinating and thanks for taking the time to type it up.

obligatory >hate girls

>> No.56093156

>>56092450
Simulationism was a big thing until around 2000, and it's not a surprise that games up to that time have a certain intersecting audience. The push for different game philosophies is more recent, which explains the later reactions.
(No, oWoD was not a narrative game despite the public perception, see the Forge).

>> No.56094347

>>56092450
>five to ten hours of pre-session preparation
this is what non-gurpsers actually believe

>> No.56094435

>>56092847
I have a similar story. GURPS was my first RPG ~15 years ago. I've played a ton of different games since then of course, but it's still my go-to to system. I get why many don't enjoy it though.

Personally I never suggest GURPS without including the sourcebooks, optional recommended rules or streamlining, etc. I also have no difficulty recommending other systems.

Anytime someone just answers flat-out "GURPS" in a system req. thread I tend to assume it's either someone meme'ing or baiting.

>> No.56094459
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56094459

>>56093075

>> No.56094583
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56094583

>>56092450
>fanboys
Did you just gender me?

>> No.56094589

Honestly, the appeal of GURPS is the "pointbuy" over character classes, customizable perks, and being heavily modifyable. Also, unlike 3.5 vs 4e, or oWoD vs nWoD, the GURPS 3rd to 4th was pretty skub-free, especially since it got rid of the 3rd ed Vehicle rules meme.

>> No.56094654
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56094654

>>56092504
This, it's a good system for everthing but it's not the pinnacle of ttrpg.

>>56092450
No one really goes into it because there's so many books to use. Biotech, fantasy, robots, whatever. I just use them to modify my homebrew and get ideas.


I'm reading biotech right now and it even goes into microbes and using these genetically modified cells in commerce.

https://issuu.com/kaltses/docs/gurps_bio-tech

>> No.56094828

>>56092450
That only really applies to the fanboys on /tg/, who don't play the system but endlessly promote it and plan for campaigns that will never actually happen. People who play GURPS can generally give good reasons to play it outside of not being 3.PF
>>56094589
>Lack of edition wars is a selling point for the system
See what I mean?

>> No.56094928

>>56092924
>Peter Jackson
No wonder he got a letter saying "no"

>> No.56095054

>>56094828
I like how you completely ignore the first half of >>56094589

>> No.56095106

>>56092450
GURPS is hardly a one size fits all system but with enough rules modules you can make it do just about anything, though you'd have less headache with a specialized system.

Also, it works fine out of the box for modern or grittier futuristic and fantasy games

>> No.56095233

>>56092450
Having work for the gm to do doesn't make a system bad. If that where the case then everyone would be playing Risus.

I like gurps because of...
>3d6 is elegant and works great
>infinite ideas for characters
>comfortably knowing my characters strengths and weaknesses
>ability to homebrew and worldbuild until I die
>runs literally anything and doesn't require you to learn other systems
>each and every piece of the game is well designed to work amazingly alone and with other parts of the game.
>that combat
>that character creation
>etc

>> No.56095309

whats GURPS?

>> No.56095330
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56095330

Yeah, GURPS is great OP. You're really missing out.

>> No.56095357

>>56095330
Oh please. I could kill that guy with 40 points.

Please go and stay go.

>> No.56095386

>>56092450
Any system is good as long as you people have fun with it.

>> No.56095397
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56095397

>>56095386
>fun

>> No.56095407

>>56094654
even for people that don't play or have any plans on playing GURPs I'd still recommend them to people who do heavy home-brewing because the splatbooks are just that good

>> No.56095435

>>56095397
Hahaha

What might be fun for him might not be fun for you.

Doesn't matter in the slightest.

>> No.56095450
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56095450

>>56095309

>> No.56095469

>>56095330
>Point buy generic system = broken system

This ain't your babby class game of choice anon. You're required to work with your Gm when building a character, so if you are allowed on making 80gun man as a valid character (and, god, i would actually see that explanation) rest assured that such game would cover even more broken opponents and challenges

>> No.56095476

>>56095330
>throws glass of water onto ground
>it shatters, spilling water and glass shards all over
>lmao what a shitty glass, it can't even hold water

>> No.56095489

>>56095330
Imagine being so butthurt about an RPG necessitating GM oversight, that you take the time to cobble together an image of your pitiful argument and post it anytime you see someone post GURPS.

It's especially pitiful because there are actually many good reasons for disliking GURPS and there are ACTUAL flaws in the system itself which could be discussed instead.

>> No.56095505

>>56095330
i was wondering when you would show up riflenon

how has your day been so far?

>> No.56095510

>>56092450
>five to ten hours of pre-session preparation be considered a good system
D&D sucks, AND GURPS suck, AND this statement I disagree with, with every fiber of my being.

I love preparing lots of material for my games just because I find it fun.

I think what YOU need to understand is that there are just people with different opinions than you.

>> No.56095539
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56095539

>>56095450
N-no really, what is a GURPS?

>> No.56095653

>>56095330
I don't know grups but isn't this example of retarded idiot gun savant that can shoot his rifle like one fo best snipers but needs party help to shit himself without drowning in his own shit?

>> No.56095676
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56095676

Inside a GURPS book you find all manner of information that can help any GM, working with any system, and in any setting.

Not content with making the best manuals in RPG literature, their authors happen to have made a system.

GURPS is the latest iteration of the system made by the creators that write the best RPG books.

>> No.56095681

>>56095489
>ACTUAL flaws in the system itself which could be discussed instead.
Like what?

>> No.56095700

>>56095469
You're missing the point of the image.
The game designers encourage lateral character building.
Their skill costs encourage the opposite.
They are morons who don't know how to design toward a goal.
Instead of creating an elegant system that rewards the behavior they are trying to promote, they just put the same old "rule zero" shit in the book on one page and let it go.

>> No.56095715

>>56095407
Agreed! There's nice bits of thought, morality, philosophy tossed in there. The biotech one I'm reading talked about playing god and at what point do you stop being human.


I'm running a sci-fi rpg that starts in post nuclear fallout. Slowly introducing them to higher tech. I wanted to bring gene editing and synthetic parts and upgrades to it. It's loosely based on shadowrun, fallout, GURPS with a sprinkle of other systems.

My group loves it! They're invested in it pretty well. I brought in an engineering skill to have them build stuff from junk. Like a long pipe, gas tank, hose, binding, igniter and motorcycle handle to make a flamethrower.

I didn't know if they would travel or stay local. So I have a rough world map and the possibility to upgrade settlements. In the before-fore time the world was in three factions. One heavily using coal, gas, oil, steam; second is the renewable energy hippies; third is the nuclear group. So they can get solar panels or a nuclear core if they want to power the settlement.

>> No.56095722

>>56095653
You don't need skills to take a shit.
Stop acting like you need X points in Y to be able to do basic tasks like even cooking.
I can prepare basic meals for myself but I definitely do not have even a stat - 1 in cooking when it comes to GURPS.
This stupid "I can only do what's on my character sheet and my character is an incompetent shithead otherwise" is retarded crap that goes all the way back to when they introduced the rogue to Dungeons and Dragons.
Before skills were even a part of the game.
Skill checks are almost universally shit, anyway, but that's another matter.

>> No.56095750
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56095750

>>56095539
>filename
your waifu is a shit

>> No.56095836

>>56095700
Hmm... One sentence lines. I'm keeping an eye on you.

>> No.56095886

>>56095700
>an elegant system that rewards the behavior they are trying to promote

Gurps isn't build to reward any behavior at all: it's a plain, old school, generic system. The basic manuals give "parameters" about heroic realism but the rest is gm-players choices.

It's a TOOLBOX to wich build a FRAMEWORK to wich execute the game of choice

>> No.56095907

>>56092450
Some people are very tied to facts and rules. They see everything like math, where there is a single correct answer. When they are playing tabletop games, they want to have an answer to point to for every question. They don't like it when something isn't covered or isn't clear. Those are the sort of people who like GURPS, because it gives them what they are looking for, a lack of ambiguity.

>> No.56095932

>>56095330
This is stupid.

No sane GM would allow this a normal game. And gurps is built with the assumption that GM's are sane and reject characters that don't fit the setting.

Plus I could beat this character with 40 point intangibility (always on) and telekinesis 8 and there is nothing he can do to me.

>> No.56095936

>>56092473
Confirmed.

>> No.56095938

>>56095681
Strength/damage scaling issues, vague wealth/status interactions, extremely large/small or very powerful characters, advantages priced by intended rarity rather than practical utility, flawed core guidelines like Hiking or Listing ST I can go on. Granted many of GURPS' issues are edge cases, but some of these can be real problems and are worthy of mention and active discussion.

>> No.56095971

>>56095907
You're pretty much entirely wrong about what I, and many others, enjoy about GURPS.

That said, it does involved more mechanics than many prefer which is entirely understandable.

>> No.56096050

>>56095971
Then I guess you are different from the people I have played the game with.

>> No.56096059

>>56096050
Yep. I guess I must be.

>> No.56096806

>>56092533

You've answered your own question.
>> Is GURPS the biggest RPG meme after D&D?

Yes, it's a meme. People who post "GURPS" in recommendation threads are mocking the system. If anything bait threads like this encourage the practice.

>> No.56097427

>>56095907
That's not why I play.

I like being able to play any genre and my inner homebrewer comes out whenever I play.

It's just really fun to play in the sandbox sometimes.

>> No.56097789
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56097789

That is entirely wrong, but you are free to believe that. 3.5 and GURPS are on opposite ends of the spectrum with regards to what you can do. 3.5 assumes that all splats are available at all times for character creation, and has rules written like a legal document. Meanwhile GURPS specifically asks that you offer your players only what is appropriate, and has rules that actually encourage creativity. Telekinesis in GURPS has text encouraging you to use the ability to pull the pins on the grenades of your enemies, while D&D is explicit in that you can't use telekinesis on objects that your enemies have on their body.

tldr; kill yourself OP.

>> No.56097852

>>56092769
Gentoo is legitimately good though. You have out of the box options like CloverOS if the set up is a problem, just like how GURPS has out of the box options like Dungeon Fantasy or Transhuman Space if you don't like the frontloading.

>> No.56098113

>>56097852
Yes, but the point is that Gentoo is legitimately too complicated for most people to reasonably use. Just like GURPS.

In the games I GM, most players have trouble following even 3.PF rules. Can you imagine dropping GURPS on them?

>> No.56098162

>>56095886
>It's a TOOLBOX to wich build a FRAMEWORK to wich execute the game of choice
Translation: if you homebrew this shitty game a lot, it will actually work.

>>56095932
>Plus I could beat this character with 40 point intangibility (always on) and telekinesis 8 and there is nothing he can do to me.
Except that's supernatural. My 30 guns character can be played in a modern setting with no magic.

>> No.56098176

>>56092450
Nah, most of the GURPS fanbase have been hanging about since 3e got huge in the 90s.

>> No.56098177

>>56097789
>while D&D is explicit in that you can't use telekinesis on objects that your enemies have on their body.
Have you ever had a character in D&D use telekinesis? They destroy everything. Fuck telekinesis.

>> No.56098204
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56098204

>>56098162
>My 30 guns character can be played in a modern setting with no magic.
"No, he can't."

>> No.56098220

>>56095932
>no sane GM
Subjective, therefore not an argument.
There is no reason why the skill ranks are as they are, if the developers care about lateral character development.
The skill costs should be 1 3 6 9 15 21 instead of 1 2 4 4 4 4 4 4 4. Shifted around, of course, for difficulty. If you look at the skill cost table that I included in the image I posted, you will understand. Linear skill progression encourages the exact opposite of what the developers want to encourage, and relying on ebin rule zero to put a cap on that, is just lazy game design.

>> No.56098234

>>56098220
The developers don't give a single shit about lateral character development you dumb cunt.

>> No.56098236

>>56098204
Yes he can, nigger.
Show me EXACTLY what is magical about my character.
Nothing he does requires magic.
You cannot prove he is magic or supernatural in any way.
He has no supernatural advantages or disadvantages.
Or supernatural equipment.
The worst you could accuse me of is a high TL for the gauss gun I used in the example above.
I don't need it.
If I get a 150 point character, I can easily make someone able to snipe enemies on the moon.

>> No.56098242

>>56098113
GURPS is legitimately more simple than 3.5 though. I don't see what you are trying to claim.

>> No.56098249

>>56098162
Not really, you just have no idea what a toolbox is. Which isn't uprising for a basement dwelling neet.

>> No.56098258

>>56098204
>"No, he can't."

Why not?

>> No.56098267

>>56098234
This. SJG isn't trying to make League of Legends where they are trying to balance out "Builds" catering to the WAAC crowd. That would be Paizo.

>> No.56098278

>>56092450
I'm going to guess you're a 4e fan, strictly because you tied it to 3.5 and nobody else spergs about 3.5 anymore.

>> No.56098280

>>56098236
>Yes he can, nigger.
No, he can't. I am GM, and I am telling you to get the fuck out of my house.

Besides, the game takes place in Japan, and you are arrested for having a gun.

>> No.56098286

>>56098220
What's lateral character development?

>> No.56098293

>>56095469
>can't optimize in the game
>this is somehow a good game

No.

>> No.56098307

>>56098234
I don't think you actually know what the fuck I am talking about.
But they do.
They don't want you to sink all your points into one thing.
Pretty sure B172 explains how skills past 20 get less and less useful.
Which is true, with a base 3d6 roll.
They say to take skill techniques and "complementary" skill instead.
What they fail to take into account is that with range penalties and movement penalties you can jack up your guns skill to do insanely stupid shit.
Entirely within the rules.
This is because there is no punishment, no diminishing return for increasing a skill.

>>56098267
No one brought up League of Legends.
No one brought up power-creep mini-tweak balancing bullshit.
That is not what this is about.
This has to do with the core system being shitty for encouraging well-rounded characters.

>> No.56098319

>>56092533

Install Gentoo.

>> No.56098327
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56098327

>>56098307
>No one brought up power-creep mini-tweak balancing bullshit.
But OP explicitly compared GURPS to 3.5. If anything GURPS is a game where the minmaxing mentality is discouraged.

>> No.56098331

>>56098280
Please continue your power fantasy somewhere else.
>Japan
So it's weeb trash. I wouldn't have wanted to play anyway.
Do you think I am actually intending to play this character?
Do you think I intend this as a way to say "haha look how clever I am"?
There is nothing clever about dumping your points into one skill.
But GURPS allows it.
And, in fact, rewards you for it.

>>56098286
Please look up the word "lateral" in a dictionary.

>> No.56098334

>>56098286
Not him, but basically it's where your character becomes capable in other fields rather than growing in they one they're focused on.

>> No.56098345

>>56092533
I played GURPS before 3.5 came out. The draw wasnt splat glory because 2e had splat glory. The draw was to be able to play non-fantasy/ non-high-fantasy games. But the system isnt penetrable by casuals. So the trick is to steal ideas from the GURPS sourcebooks and then put them into a system people already know. "GURPS" = "GURPS fluff over rules you already know, (usually D&D)"

>> No.56098349

>>56098162
There is nothing that is homebrew about using the system exactly how it tells you to use it.

>> No.56098353

>>56098327
You can't even seem to tell what I am talking about.
I am talking about the fact that the developers did not build their system to encourage well-rounded characters.
This has nothing to do with D&D 3.5.
>If anything GURPS is a game where the minmaxing mentality is discouraged.
Not at all, as I just showed in the image above.

>> No.56098354

>>56098280
>we can't discuss the flaws of a system because the GM can just fix any problems present therein

You are part of the problem.

>> No.56098366

>>56092450
More like you get to spend all those hours coming up with the perfect character build. Go back to Dungeon World if you hate options so much.

>> No.56098376

>>56098280
>the game takes place in Japan,
Okay. Do I get a sword? I'll just dump 80 points into my swords skill and have a Parry of like 15 or something. Or I could do the same kind of shit with a bow and arrow. You think this is limited to guns?

>> No.56098379

>>56095676
You could just read actual books about the subject matter and not have to deal with a game made by pedants for pedants.

>> No.56098380

>>56098331
>power fantasy
Anon you worthless retard THIS IS HOW YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO GM LITERALLY ANYTHING.

>> No.56098381

>>56098353
>Not at all, as I just showed in the image above.
Which was already disproven. It's almost like actual groups who play the game aren't minmaxing faggots like your average 3.5/PF group.

>> No.56098396
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56098396

>>56098331
Wew lad.

>> No.56098403

>>56098380
>the GM is supposed to power trip over the players

"No."

>> No.56098429

>>56098403
>wow anon the GM can't tell the players that some character options are not available that's power tripping now let me play a paladin tiefling even though you explicitly said that neither of those are present in the setting what's that you won't god you're such a power-tripping shitter

>> No.56098438

>>56098381
Nothing in my image was disproven.

>>56098380
>THIS IS HOW YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO GM LITERALLY ANYTHING.
By getting salty and switching campaign settings because a player showed how shitty the rules are?
I was only responding to the other anon LARPing as my GM, implying that I would participate in a Japan campaign. That was the only part that offended me.

>>56098349
D&D and loads of games tell you to make new content and house rules to fit your game.
It's still homebrew.
This is nothing new.
Oh sorry did you think GURPS was special because it said it in a slightly different way?

>> No.56098444

>>56098376
"It seems that you want to play a shonen protagonist. The rest of the group does not want anything of the sort, however, so I'm going to have to ask you to make a new character."

>> No.56098449

>>56098438
Try reading the thread (And the rulebooks for that matter) next time.

>> No.56098456

At its core, the actual mechanical underpinnings, the GURPS system is unremarkable, a basically functional 80s roleplaying game that makes no particularly interesting or innovative mechanical choices. What GURPS has to offer is a bunch of options for the sort of GM or player that feels everything, absolutely everything needs to be put to paper and modeled in some fashion (even if in 90% of cases, the actual mechanical effect isn't much more significant than apply +2 or -2 to something in D&D). If you want a game that does the job "well enough" and can handle not having every detail fussily modeled, it offers very little as a game besides a bunch of extra work every time you want to start a campaign or prepare a session.

>> No.56098472

>>56098354
It's not like 3.5 where class levels and feats are expected to be completely balanced.

Characters are encouraged to build their characters to fit the story, because gurps is about telling stories, not about grinding and leveling. If your character doesn't help the story, then just leave.

Plus there is the wonderful advantage called unusual background, being +11 skill points above a grand master sniper would call for a 120-80 point unusual background. That is literally in the game, with no DM fiat involved.

>> No.56098473

>>56098267
>Paizo
>trying to balance builds

Really now?

>> No.56098474

>>56098429
Except a paladin tiefling implies (1) there are paladins, and (2) there are tieflings.
All I am doing is taking a skill that (presumably) would be available anyway.
No obviously I wouldn't build a gunslinger in a medieval japan campaign.
(I also wouldn't play in a medieval Japan campaign because I'm not a degenerate).
The point is, and was, to show a problem with the GURPS system.
I can easily show that flaw in a medieval campaign with an archer character who can headshot from 1/2D range without issue.
Probably wouldn't require as many points, either.
Changing the setting does nothing to escape the overall, larger problem.

>> No.56098482

>>56098444
This so much. If I am running a game about Scooby Doo esque adventures, I am not going to let a faggot run a trained marksman. He can get a disadvantage that makes him afraid of bats or something instead. GURPS isn't a game where every single option is available at the same time like 3.5, it's a game where you use what is appropriate to build a character rather than a bunch of positive modifiers that can let you bypass challenges without thinking.

>> No.56098483

>>56098429
>the players are just there to be a captive audience to the GM's story, and he should never have to collaborate with them or change his game to suit them in any fashion

>> No.56098486

>>56098444
How about you make your character for me, then, Captain Small Dick?
Since you're on such a power trip you can't seem to handle people making their own PCs.
Maybe if you didn't want powergamers you should have chosen a system that isn't criminally easy to powergame in.
It's easier to break GURPS than 3.5, and that says a lot.

>> No.56098497

>>56092533
GURPS lite is 32 pages, for free and contains all the basic rules you need.

At that level, it only simulates fairly "realistic" settings, but it's for free and only slightly more than three tens of pages - only two more than the number of cakes Lex Luthor stole.

>> No.56098500

>>56095330
>Well yea you can play the best gunman in the world, but you have to pay for an 80 point unusual background to justify that.
>you don't have enough points? Well then build another character.

>> No.56098516

>>56098482
>skills aren't available because I'm butthurt
>getting a disadvantage instead of 100 points worth of skills
???
>GURPS isn't a game where every single option is available at the same time
No one said it was.
But if guns are going to be a thing in your campaign, I sure as fuck am going to be as good at using them as possible.
Not sure why you faggots keep trying to drag this into settings where it wouldn't fit.
>"you made this specialist character that breaks any semblance of realism, with the talent level of a low-tier adventurer"
>"but he sure wouldn't do well on Gordon Ramsay's cooking show, would he? Checkmate, faggot!"
Stupid argument.
If I am going to play a gunslinger, I am going to do it well.
Stop using shit like Japan campaigns and ScoobyDoo shit that nobody plays anyway.

>> No.56098526

>>56098483
anon, would you let a player play a superhero in a black ops game?

Wow so railroady.

>> No.56098528

>>56098483
>the GM is just there to be a slave to the players' whims, and they should never have to collaborate with him or change their characters to suit the game in any fashion

>> No.56098533

>>56098500
>adding rules that don't exist because you're asshurt about the skill system
>"build another character"
Play another system, moron.
The game encourages me to do this. Since the cost to increase a skill remains the same past the first few increases.

>> No.56098540

>>56098516
Nice strawman. The rulebooks says that you are supposed to veto inappropriate characters. Even if you are tacticool operators (A great thing to run in GURPS by the way) no one will have 80% of their points dumped into guns as that wouldn't make sense. What you are saying is possible IS something that nobody plays anyways, which would be a settings where everyone is an inhumanly good marksman.

>> No.56098544

>>56098533
>adding rules that don't exist
Unusual Background is right there you poor excuse for a human.

In the extremely unlikely event of your GM actually wanting characters like this, the system can provide. In the far more likely event of your GM hitting you, the system also provides.

>> No.56098545

>>56098526
>black ops game
That reminds me.
Don't most black ops characters start out with 200 points or so?
Hell, I do remember seeing a few 500 point characters. A lot with shooting in the mid to low 20s.
I'm sure you could find a couple skills on that sheet to dispose of.
Black Ops is a team, anyway.
It'd still be a very well rounded character, but with its shooting score increased by +20 or so.
Look now I have a 47 Guns skill.
I won't even get into what I can do with that.

>> No.56098557

>>56098528
>I can't even come up with an original greentext strawman.

>> No.56098558

>>56098540
>The rulebooks says that you are supposed to veto inappropriate characters.
Every game has that rule.
Does that excuse D&D 3.5 wizards being broken as shit?
>no one will have 80% of their points dumped into guns as that wouldn't make sense.
Why not? I had a lot of practice.
> What you are saying is possible IS something that nobody plays anyways, which would be a settings where everyone is an inhumanly good marksman.
Not everyone. Just me.

>> No.56098566

>>56098533
>The game encourages me to do this.

The GM will probably ask you how you plan to integrate your a paranoid loner who's probably also a murderer into the game and the group and tell you to make a new character after you're stumped because you figured that it's just maths without consequences.

>> No.56098571

>>56098544
>Unusual Background is right there you poor excuse for a human.
And why would it apply here?
It doesn't.
Nothing in the rules prevents me from playing this character, besides you being salty because I broke your precious system without an ounce of sapient thought.
You're yet to make a convincing argument for why different skill cost structure would be bad.

>> No.56098572

>>56098516
If it doesn't fit the genre then go make a different character.

No game involving guns would be ok with a dude spending 80 points in guns would be a superhero game.

If I can block a ghost from showing up in my historical drama, then I have no reason to no stop the best gunman ever from showing up. Just because a system has an option doesn't mean I have to allow it and that is no fault of the game.

What special kind of brain cancer is this?

Plus unusual backgrounds exist and I'd cost "the best gunman ever" around 240 points.

>> No.56098581

>>56098558
No setting would have any human start off as a marksman that good. And the GM decides the setting, I am sorry that fact doesn't register to you. It's ironic that you complain about people running settings that nobody plays, when you are doing it yourself.

>> No.56098599

>>56098571
>why would it apply here?
Because you have Guns 31 you stupid fuck.

>> No.56098607

You know, 80 guns guy is right. The game does tacitly encourage you to optimize like this, because it makes these routes the optimal path. Doing otherwise basically requires you to tie one of your hands behind your back, and that's definitely a mark against the system (for instance, Shadowrun, which GURPS players like to insist their game is better than, does not in any capacity require that the gun-bunny characters hamstring themselves to avoid breaking the game, nor do most games for that matter). It is in fact actually impossible to play GURPS as a game (with a sense of competition and victory as a goal, like what you might see in the OSR scene) because you have to hobble yourself to play it at all, and thus can't *really* play it.

>> No.56098611

>>56098474
Why not just use skill cost inflation then, ala 3e or Tbone's 4th edition houserules, if it's such an impossible obstacle?

I see what point you're trying to make, I just don't understand why. For all the reasons people have already mentioned.

There's a difference between the implicit assumption of all RPGs that the GM is ultimate arbitrator above and beyond the rules, and an RPG which is built around GM oversight as a necessity from the start. GURPS falls into the later category, making your point meaningless and unimportant for groups comfortable with that fact.
For those who aren't, there are rules I mentioned above.
While you may take issue with those not being 4e "RAW" and therefore tangential to your point, I do think they make your point more or less a practice in meaningless semantics in combination with the core toolset assumptions of the system.

>> No.56098614

>>56098566
>paranoid loner
I think you're projecting.
Plenty of psychopaths manage to function quite normally in society.
And there are plenty of ways to integrate them into the game.

>>56098572
>redddit spacing
Nothing about my character is supernatural.
This is fact. Deal with it.
This is nothing like a ghost showing up in your historical drama.
Ghosts are supernatural. Guns 31 is not.
>Just because a system has an option doesn't mean I have to allow it and that is no fault of the game.
No one said you had to. Only that the option being there is stupid and broken. Which, by not allowing it, you confirm my argument for me. Thank you.
Rule zero exists in every game. GURPS is not special. And it is not an excuse for the astonishingly poor game design from the morons at SJG.
>Plus unusual backgrounds exist and I'd cost "the best gunman ever" around 240 points.
Except that's not in the rules, that's just you using your GM dick because you're asshurt that I outsmarted your crappy 20 year old game with minimal effort.
You morons are still missing the original point I tried to make by screeching "RULE ZERO" over and over like trained monkeys.

>> No.56098615

>>56098571
You are like 20 levels above the best military snipers ever!

That's as unusual a background as can come, I'm not even sure humans can reach that point.

I'd expect a huge backstory showing how you got this good, that still fits my setting. AND cost you 240 points for even THINKING about pulling this bull crap.

>> No.56098625
File: 349 KB, 715x590, gurps.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
56098625

>>56092504
This is actually really insightful.

>> No.56098639
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56098639

>>56098614
>not in the game

Oh hi page 96 of the basic set.

>> No.56098641

>>56098581
>No setting would have any human start off as a marksman that good.
Prove it.
> And the GM decides the setting
And nothing in his setting says I can't play that character. Except the bullshit he pulls out of his ass.
Again, I can make a setting for D&D 3.5, where wizards don't exist.
Does this change the fact that wizards are not incredibly overpowered in 3.5?
Answer my question.

>>56098599
And why does that mean anything?
Why does Guns 31 mean I can't play?
Is guns 30 okay? Guns 25?
It's all arbitrary and it's all bullshit.
It's just whatever the power-tripping faggot GM wants.
I've run quite a few GURPS games and I don't behave like this. No wonder GURPS has such a reputation of autism. You guys throw a shitfit whenever someone makes a character because "DOESN'T FIT MUH SETTING"

>> No.56098655

>>56098615
>in other words, I'll egregiously abuse rule 0 to cover up the system's shortcomings

You and I both know you wouldn't let a 3.5 player away with this kind of defense of the system. Just because the writers foresaw that they'd need to model out "kill it with rule 0" (because this is a game for pedants, they had to model everything) doesn't mean it's any less that.

>> No.56098675

>>56098641
>No wonder GURPS has such a reputation of autism.
Yeah, especially with people like you playing.

>> No.56098687

>>56098611
>the implicit assumption of all RPGs that the GM is ultimate arbitrator above and beyond the rules, and an RPG which is built around GM oversight as a necessity from the start.
There is no distinction between these.
The implicit assumption is there in ALL multigenre systems.
But if you look at other multigenre systems like Savage Worlds, they don't have this problem.
GURPS basically hands you 1000 bucks and lets you spend it all at the candy store if you want.
>Why not just use skill cost inflation then, ala 3e or Tbone's 4th edition houserules, if it's such an impossible obstacle?
Not sure why these weren't included, seeing as you have to look at / memorize a table for the skill costs, anyway. Triangular numbers are easier to learn than a table. At least, they are if you aren't a brainlet.

>>56098615
How the fuck is that a background?
>I'd expect a huge backstory showing how you got this good, that still fits my setting. AND cost you 240 points for even THINKING about pulling this bull crap.
Piss off you entitled fuck. I don't give a shit about your setting. No one does. Your entire argument basically boils down to a dissolution of the social contract of RPGs. Kicking me out of your game because you're on too much of a power trip to follow it's rules.

>> No.56098696

>>56098639
There is nothing special about spending points on a skill that the game allows me to do.
It's not supernatural.
It doesn't violate the setting.
And you can't prove that it does.
All you have is your GM fiat hammer.
Which you have in any system, not just GURPS.
Q.E.D. bitch.

>> No.56098703

>>56098687
>follow it's rules
Isn't the point of GURPS is that the system allows the GM to switch out and replace rules as needed to run a specific kind of game?

>> No.56098706

>>56098687
>Kicking me out of your game because you're on too much of a power trip to follow it's rules.
>following the rules and slapping people with Unusual Background to justify things greatly outside the norm is breaking the rules

>> No.56098709

>>56098641
>>56098655
Your whole argument is "wizards in 3.5, hurr durr"

The whole reason wizards where unbalanced was because they were stronger than other characters.

Other people focusing on other skills/powers can easily match or beat your austism sniper argument.

This isn't gurps sniper vs d&d fighter
This is gurps Austim fighter vs gurps austim fighter.

They are balanced internally but you seem to miss that point.

>> No.56098713

>>56098696
Give it up man. GURPS players wont admit fault in their system except in any backhanded "these are mostly just edge cases" sense because their game is to them, perfect.

>> No.56098738

>>56098696
>Hitting someone from miles away isn't supernatural.

you must be fun at parties.

>> No.56098740

>>56098709
>The whole reason wizards where unbalanced was because they were stronger than other characters.

t. I haven't actually analyzed the system. They were a problem because they disrupted the game and the game tacitly encouraged people to play them. Like GURPS tacitly encourages people to optimize by providing no sound reason not to.

>> No.56098745

>>56098696
>It doesn't violate the setting.
>And you can't prove that it does.
But I made the setting.

>> No.56098756

>>56098738
It doesn't have the SU tag.

>> No.56098767

>>56098687
Savage World's also doesn't cover the same breadth in power scale that GURPS does, nor does it do so in a way that is designed to shift scale so significantly with regards to density of mechanics. Fate handles this with no problems for similar reasons. GURPS acts the way it does out of necessity for it's design goals.

As far as the alternate skill scaling, I dunno why it wasn't included as an optional rule by default. Perhaps as a part of the effort to streamline 4e, but I can really only guess. In any event, they are trivial to re-import into the system if one desires.

>> No.56098768

>>56098703
>Isn't the point of GURPS is that the system allows the GM to switch out and replace rules as needed to run a specific kind of game?
That also applies to Savage Worlds.
And FATE.
And PbtA games.
Fuck, it applies to pretty much everything.
Yet, those systems still made fair and balanced rules.
Hmm.

>>56098706
>following the rules and slapping people with Unusual Background to justify things greatly outside the norm is breaking the rules
You're yet to give a logical justification for why I can't have a 31 Guns character that isn't "I'm ass hurt."

>> No.56098774

>>56098740
It also encourages me to put 40 points into intangibility and if we are judgeing this with no rules, then my ghost beats your sniper.

>> No.56098782

>>56098738
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Longest_recorded_sniper_kills

>>56098745
>But I made the setting.
That means absolutely nothing.

>> No.56098798

>>56098768
>can't provide an answer besides I'm mad
Nobody in my setting can teach someone to shoot above 20.

Boom

>> No.56098799

>>56098767
>Savage World's also doesn't cover the same breadth in power scale that GURPS does, nor does it do so in a way that is designed to shift scale so significantly with regards to density of mechanics.

GURPS can't handle high power levels worth a damn and Savage Worlds has a fairly robust supers supplement that handles higher power levels pretty OK.

>> No.56098807

>>56098767
>Savage World's also doesn't cover the same breadth in power scale that GURPS does
Actually it kinda does.
There's a superhero book, you know.
I've yet to find anything Savage Worlds can't do.
The thing it's worst at is gritty survivalism shit, and that's only because the fatigue/starvation system is absolute ass.

>> No.56098817

>>56098774
Ok, but who cares? It's not a versus contest. The sniper has already disrupted the game.

>> No.56098833

>>56098782
You realize gurps has rules for taking time to aim shots and other sniper tactics.

A skill of 15 and a few seconds of aiming can get you a mile away kill easy. Scopes help too.

>> No.56098836

>>56098807
inb4 the anti-Savage Worlds copypasta

>> No.56098847
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56098847

>>56092450
It's just a meme, my dude.

>>56092533
>For fuck sakes, I have seen this happen too many times. Have any of you faggots who actually recommend GURPS, even played it?
No. It's a meme, not a game. A lot of us have read the books, but nobody's crazy enough to try running anything with GURPS. That's like huffing glue and expecting to remain sober.

>>56092723
Anon gets it.

>>56092924
>Here in Brazil we got conditioned to hate girls in the late 90s and early 2ks, because our only source of information was a terrible magazine run by terrible people.
Yeah we know they showed up here in Murica and some of us were even forced to marry them. It's awful. All of that ass and we're tit men.

>>56095330
Now on blast: GURPS.

Also remember that occasionally someone who actually plays GURPS will appear. When they do keep in mind that some people just like the taste of shit.

>> No.56098848

>>56098782
>That means absolutely nothing.
>having made the setting doesn't mean you can tell me what does and does not fit the setting
You're just falling apart, man.

>> No.56098850

>>56098798
>Nobody in my setting can teach someone to shoot above 20.
Why 20?
I need a logical justification here.
Why can I learn at a very steady, linear rate, but suddenly stop at 20?
There are people in the real world who arguably have skills at higher level than that.
Again, it's just your arbitrary GM butthurt that is behind that rule.
Although, you are trying to patch holes in a terribly-designed skill system, so I can't fault you that much.

>> No.56098859

>>56098817
No he hasn't. Because he can't get into my game without paying a 300 point unusual background to allow for his privilege to be that good at shooting.

Gurps literally has a rule to stop people from being disruptive to a game. It's not even rule zero, it's straight up written into the game.

>> No.56098879

>>56098709
>Other people focusing on other skills/powers can easily match or beat your austism sniper argument.
Yeah. Supernatural ones. My entire point is that this character is not supernatural. Actually, my point is a game design one, but only two people in this thread have actually had the intelligence to figure it out.

>> No.56098883

>>56098850
Humans can't get to that point because nobody can train beyond that point.

Theorically aliens or fae could teach you above 20 but you can't get above that without an unusual background.

>> No.56098886

>>56098859
>No he hasn't. Because he can't get into my game without paying a 300 point unusual background to allow for his privilege to be that good at shooting.
>I'll kill it with rule 0.

You lost.

>it's not even rule 0

Yes it is, just because the designers were so insecure that they thought to put a name to the mechanic, doesn't change the fact that it follows the exact same form and function as an application of rule 0.

Why can't GURPS players just admit that their system falls apart if you look at it funny, and this is a mark against it (because there are plenty of generic systems that do not)?

>> No.56098898

>>56098848
So an NPC in your setting can fly while standing on one toe, because you said so?
And the speed of light is 674,000 miles an hour instead of 674,000,000 miles an hour, with no changes to anything? Sounds like a great setting.
>having made the setting doesn't mean you can tell me what does and does not fit the setting
I mean, you can do whatever you want. You're the GM in this hypothetical. But you're doing the same shit that 3.5 DMs would do to try to "balance" wizards. I find that interesting.

>> No.56098899

>>56092794
>Or "THIN YOUR PAINTS" when someone asks for painting tips.
I've genuinely never seen somebody ask for painting tips on /tg/ who didn't unironically need to thin his paints, though. If it's good and relevant advice every time I'm hard pressed to consider it a meme.

>> No.56098900

>>56098883
>Humans can't get to that point because nobody can train beyond that point.

Why not? Prove it.

>> No.56098911

>>56098886
Anon, this is not the system falling apart, this is the system allowing you to do something dumb and then you complaining because you've been allowed to do something dumb.

>> No.56098912

>>56098879
Nope.

A dude who puts 80 points into appearance will literally be unshootable by your character simply because the social character makes anyone who looks at him neutral at worse.

No supernatural or special stuff.

>> No.56098932

>>56098900
>list of humans with skill above 20 trained by humans
>.........

>> No.56098938

>>56098911
But it is the system falling apart. This system can't be pushed the way... basically every other modern system can be. Just admit that it's a flaw.

I mean, if we're going with this, we could claim that CoDzilla is just an option that you don't have to use as well, but that doesn't excuse the existence of CoDzilla.

>> No.56098940

>>56098859
>240 points
>now 300
Jesus, is this an auction? Can I get you to 1000 points so that it's not even worth it anymore? You're getting more and more angry.
>his privilege to be that good at shooting.
The rules say that I can. With no supernatural aid. A completely mundane character. There is no reason why I couldn't play that character. (There's an argument you could make here that would tie back into my overarching point I've been trying to make, but I know you won't because you're just going to keep repeating your rule zero shit).
>Gurps literally has a rule to stop people from being disruptive to a game. It's not even rule zero, it's straight up written into the game.
So does every other game. And most of the time, it is written straight into the rules as well. Get. Fucked. GURPS is nothing special.

>> No.56098951

>>56098932
>list of rules prohibiting humans from training above 20
>...>>56098932

>> No.56098953

>>56098883
>Humans can't get to that point because nobody can train beyond that point.
Why.
>Theorically aliens or fae could teach you above 20 but you can't get above that without an unusual background.
Why the fuck do I need aliens? I just keep practicing. The rules say I can.

>>56098911
>Anon, this is not the system falling apart, this is the system allowing you to do something dumb and then you complaining because you've been allowed to do something dumb.
Explain why 31 Rifles is dumb. I don't see any problem with it. I learned and practiced. Why are you punishing me? Great GMing.

>> No.56098975

>>56098932
IRL I would probably say Jerry Miculek's got a Guns (pistol) around 25. But, go ahead and slap an arbitrary rule like that in. A nice bandaid for the bleeding sore that is GURPS skill system.

>> No.56098983

>>56098940
So your whole point is "just because the rules don't say my character can't do anything while I'm dead, I can do things while my character is dead"

>gurps is the same as any other game
Yep, it is just as good and as fun as any other game, and there is nothing you can do to prove otherwise.

>> No.56099011

>>56098953
>keep practicing
Yep you can, and I'm not going to stop you

Just because you don't start with 31 in guns doesn't mean you can't get there.

>> No.56099048

>>56098975
>arbitrary rules
So you are saying that blocking superpowers from non-supers games is arbitrary.

>> No.56099076

Gurps is literally a 1-1 simulation of real life with a super computer called the human brain running it. Nothing else even comes close. If you combine gurps with Google maps it's basically like having your own alternative version of reality and until we get truly immersive matrix style VR it's the closest we will ever get.

>> No.56099088

>>56098807
Sure, but SW does not accomplish this under the same expected differences in the variety of supported resolution levels or the breadth of diverse mechanical options to choose from in order to model something for a given game, which is where GURPS excels as a generic system.

Yes, GURPS isn't Savage World's or Fate or even HERO. I don't think anybody would dispute that. It doesn't scale as nicely. But that is at least partially intrinsic in it's very nature due to its design.

>> No.56099100
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56099100

>>56099076
10/10 analogy anon.

That's how I think about it as well.

It's not so much a game as it is a physics engine.

>> No.56099107

>>56099076
Or you can just cut the middle man and go LARPing.

>> No.56099109
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56099109

>>56098614
>I think you're projecting.

Nig, that's basically an Unabomber/Breivik right there.

>> No.56099118

>>56099011
>Just because you don't start with 31 in guns doesn't mean you can't get there.
Except, I can start with 31 in Guns.
I only need, what, 4200 hours of training? According to the core rules? That's two years of full time work. Let's cut it down to 8 years. Ten hours a week of practice. That's probably too little, actually, given the "use it or lose it" rule. But, that's not unreasonable. A 12 year old character could be a master marksman by age 20.

>> No.56099140

>>56099118
>4200 hours of training a week

Sure does sound like an unusual background to me.

>> No.56099144

>>56099048
No, because that actually has a valid logical reason in the setting.
Limiting a skill number is arbitrary. Why is 20 the cutoff? Why not 23? Why is it a hardcap, when that is not at all the way things work in real life? (The way things work in real life, ironically, is what I am advocating for).

>> No.56099157

>>56099140
Oh man, I'm an idiot.

But anyways having a parent that forces your character to put in 4200 hours of training in sniper rifles is a hugely unusual background.

>> No.56099159

>>56099109
What?

>>56099140
Read the post again. More slowly this time.

>> No.56099178

>>56099144
20 is about peak human. A character with 21+ doesn't fit in my setting.

How is this different than blocking superpowers from a low fantasy game?

>> No.56099212

>>56099157
Did you go to college, anon?
10-20 hours a week of classes, plus more of homework, for four years?
My own experience was a little unusual so I don't know the norm.
But my friends made it sound like college was pretty much a full-time job...and then some.
Four years of even part-time training in something, easily comes to 4200 hours.
Yes it is split among many skills.
But it doesn't have to be.
4200 hours of training is nothing at all.
I think airline pilots have to go through far more than that.

>> No.56099229

>>56099178
Not familiar with gurps, is 20 the books definition of peak human or your own?
Just trying to understand the conversation a bit.

>> No.56099233

>>56099212
Instead of arguing in circles with random people to get a rise out of them, if you intend to have a real conversation about this subject why not continue with ours?
>>56099088

>> No.56099237

>>56099178
What's so special about 21+?
Does that unlock some secret god mode? No, it's just where you in particular decided to draw the line. Arbitrarily.
There is nothing special about 20.
You only chose it because it happens to be demarcated by the number of fingers we have.
Whereas, superpowers objectively do not exist in a fantasy setting. This can be proven by the expectations of the setting, independent of the GM.
If you really want to know the crux of the difference, it comes from the fact that skill numbers do not exist in-world the way superpowers do.

>> No.56099255

>>56099212
And?

You yourself said that losing skills over time would make the time far larger.

Plus pilots or doctors aren't only learning to be pilots or doctors. They are learning arial law, basic mechanics, training in multiple different vechiles, biology, anatomy, chemistry so on and so forth.

>> No.56099257

>>56099100
On an unrelated note, back in college, I ran GURPS: Dwarf Fortress as a campaign. Dorfs being defined by the Fantasy template, modified with a quirk that Dorfs invert sobriety and alcohol (as in, they need booze to stay sober).

The game was about said Dorfs reclaiming a hold, rebuilding it, seeking trade, etc. I found that the relative lethality of the system (low hp thresholds, plus impaling damage, plus "shock" penalties to rolls) made things brutal fast, yet the system made it easy to improvise rules on the fly for things. Converting REF to knockback to collision damage, things like "explosive booze minecart with spikes on it" could be mathed out. A kobold was butchered and its innards replaced by a microbrewery in a strange mood, resulting in a stand that menaced with spikes of bone. And there was a certain pleasure in randomly generating Hidden Fun Stuff, from the simple ("Frogmen, with a Giant Frog with ballista serving as siege engine"), to a gremlin infestation that started flipping switches in the fortress.

GURPS is fragile and easy to break, but it was incredibly hilarious for crunching out things dying in suitably messy fashion.

>> No.56099291

>I want to play a character that's really really good with shooting.
Fate
>Okay
Mutants and Masterminds
>Go for it.
Savage Worlds
>Knock yourself out.
GURPS
>WTF YOU CAN'T DO THAT YOU'LL BREAK THE GAME!

>> No.56099300
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56099300

>>56099229
>>56099237
Oh you know the fact that most professional snipers have 18

>> No.56099309

>>56098938
The difference is that CoDzilla shows up in natural play.

>> No.56099315

>>56099212
So what you're saying is, everybody should have Guns 31.

>> No.56099322

>>56099159
Those quirks are basically on the profile of every single right-wing white terrorist we had to deal with the last couple of decades.

That's not the sort of person you'd put into a midly stressful situation with other people being around.

>> No.56099325

>>56099291
You absolutely can do it. It doesn't break the game having a skill that high, just breaks suspension of disbelief in a realistic campaign.

>> No.56099343

>>56099233
>>56099088
You're not wrong.
Actually, in many ways, GURPS is far, far more elegantly designed than Savage Worlds.
Savage Worlds is a game full of tagged-on mechanics that have barely any relation to each other.
The raises and aces are probably the best-implemented mechanic in the entire game.
Half the rules are just attempts to cover up the system's core failings.
It has the disadvantage power gaming issue GURPS has, except even more so.
In many ways, Savage Worlds is a far inferior system to GURPS.
In other ways it is better.
But overall I would say GURPS is the better system from a game design standpoint.
FATE starts out with a few strikes against it, then weighs down its interesting ideas (zones, aspects, consequences) with meaningless bullshit and horrible structure.
I haven't looked at HERO much.

>> No.56099358

>>56099300
Nice table. Wish THAT was in the core book.

>> No.56099372

>>56099343
I don't expect a GURPSfag to understand what Fate is about.

>> No.56099377

>>56099291
I want to play a guy who can shoot a dime falling in midair at fifty miles per hour without aiming from half a mile away, in the plausibly realistic Navy seals game you guys are playing.

Fate:
>"No"

Savage Worlds:
>"No"

M&M:
>"No"

>> No.56099382

>>56099358
Choosing Your Skill Levels, p172, is similar but more generic.

>> No.56099384

>>56098162
>Translation: if you homebrew this shitty game a lot, it will actually work.

Fine, i'll chew the bait: a toolbox system means that within the core manuals i have all the rules and the elements to do almost everything. A framework is when i make a list of said things to contain the flavor for a specific game. None of above entail a process of homebrewing.

In short eat a dick or go fuck yoursef (wich way you prefer)

>> No.56099400

>>56099377
GURPS:
>"No"

>> No.56099414

>>56099309
No it doesn't. You have to specifically optimize a cleric or druid to do it. Even a wild spell druid won't qualify without digging for unbalanced animal forms.

>> No.56099429
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56099429

>>56095330
Nice character but don't assume that you are the only one with 31 in a skill

I can't wait until you have to deal with 31 in stealth and knife guy.

>> No.56099430

>>56099384
>None of above entail a process of homebrewing.
Fine, go ahead and put a cap on shooting. I'll still max it out.

>> No.56099438

>>56099414
Yes it does, it's incredibly easy to notice how many buffs they have and how a lot of them are Personal.

>> No.56099454

>>56099343
>But even more so

You can pick three, are expected to pick three, and get two edges or ability boosts for it. That is much less bad than the unwieldy monsters you can make in GURPS. Are GURPS players required to lie?

>> No.56099455

>>56099309
So does Mr. 31 guns.
Do you think "how can I max this out" requires any brainpower, or is something that would be ignored by players?

>>56099315
Now you're starting to understand.

>> No.56099469

>>56099429
He won't have to, because that character's unlikely to leave his hut innawoods until he's prepared for his war on the feds and other commies.

>> No.56099473

>>56092450
>GURPS
>much fanboyism
it's just a handful of vocal people, dude.

>Can any system which requires you to have a five to ten hours of pre-session preparation be considered a good system?
this isn't. also, i believe most of the fanboys have played GURPS, just like me, before 3.x came out.

>> No.56099483

>>56099455
>Now you're starting to understand.
That just means all your enemies also have Guns 31. Even higher if they're meant to be a boss type of enemy.

>> No.56099484

>>56099343
Well, I'm admittedly not as familiar with SW as I am with GURPS, but I would say at the very least GURPS probably has many more potential points of failure and weirdness due to unforeseen mechanical interactions between it's various subsystem options regardless of design elegance. However, I do think that GURPS is fairly well designed at the foundational level. SW I couldn't say, but my limited experiences suggest that it plays well within its comfort zone at the very least.

Fate I genuinely think is very poorly designed and written for a variety of reasons, but I won't get into it much here. I love a lot of its ideas, if not their implementation.

HERO is basically GURPS if it were locked to a certain resolution and built to scale to any level properly (though it's the opposite of GURPS' in that it struggles more at the low end, instead of the high end).

Also, thanks for responding.

>> No.56099513

>>56099438
And most of them won't matter with something like persistent spell and Divine metamagic die to the action economy.

>> No.56099531

>>56099430
I mean you can do that but I'd do things like throw tanks at you and commandos like >>56099429 said.

I mean if you want a metal gear game, we can have a metal gear game.

>> No.56099553

>>56098607
No, you're wrong
GURPS assumes that people that GM can talk with their players about what character concepts are valid. The rules state what levels of skills and attributes are within human norms a few times, so your "have to hobble yourself" argument is invalid. If I tell my players to have normal human level attributes, and someone gives me a character with DX 20 and 30 in Guns, that breaks the rule of "normal human level" (which is 8-14 for "heroic realism").

It's not that having high skill level would break the game, it's that having high skill level would be unbelievable for a realistic character. If the game's premise was unbelievable, one-trick ponies, then the idea of a guy with 30 in guns fits.

That's the problem with 80-points-in-guns Anon's argument. He says "I can do it in ANY game of GURPS, just because it doesn't explicitly say no." Which is wrong because GURPS says that GMs are free to veto any character concepts that do not fit the rules of the setting. It's equivalent to pulling weapons from a splatbook that the GM doesn't use.

I think of GURPS more like a system than a game. The GM sets the rules of the game, and uses the system to build it. It's like if you were designing a realistic shooter video game: sure, you can put any value you like for the damage output of a firearm, but if you're not obeying the rules you set yourself as a developer your game will not end up being realistic, will it?

>> No.56099613

>>56095330
Dude, I just have to go first and have a decent firearms skill.

>> No.56099616

>>56099372
I understand what it's about. But most of its mechanics bore me. The ladder is just a collection of arbitrary adjectives. Apocalypse World is a much better narrative game. It gives you a few quick and easy, hard rules for affecting the narrative. Whereas FATE gives you a dump truck load of soft rules.

>>56099377
>>56099400
GURPS is the only system that says yes.
Because GURPS skill system is completely unbounded.
Lacking hard caps is a good thing, because hard caps are inelegant and lazy. They show a weak structure.
Lacking soft caps, especially when hard caps are also missing, is a recipe for disaster. ESPECIALLY in a game where chargen is based around a fluid currency. Note that you cannot exchange skill points and ability points in Savage Worlds. Which is, overall, a flaw. But SW also has escalating costs. So do a lot of generic homebrews I see online. GURPS could stand to learn a lesson.

>> No.56099619

>>56099430
You're free to do a minmaxed gunslinger guy as long that character fills a concept and a role relevant to the game setting.

Shit you can be even 80gun man (in the right campaign) as long you still have enough point to spent for making him a believable full rounded character

>> No.56099632

>>56099483
>That just means all your enemies also have Guns 31.
All my enemies have the same CP value as me? That sounds like a recipe for disaster no matter how you slice it. Keep in mind that "average" people are supposed to be in the 25 to 50 category.

>> No.56099659

>>56098836
Please post I have never seen it

>> No.56099660

>>56099632
>directly comparing character points
This tells you nothing about balance.

>> No.56099689

>>56099632
CPs are for characters, not the bad guys the GM throws at the players.

>> No.56099702

>>56099613
I mean, I can take some more disadvantages and pump my Basic Speed. Or I could just rely on being far away, which was the entire point of the build.

>> No.56099750

>>56099689
>CPs are for characters, not the bad guys the GM throws at the players.
They still have CP values, if you back-work their stats.
No shit you can easily kill my character if you send characters of equal skill against him. This isn't D&D where I have maxed hit points for plot armor or whatever the fuck.

>> No.56099757

Why do people still bother arguing with the 80gun troll? Are you guys enjoying your anger?

>> No.56099758

>>56099702
Your build is shit for any challenge that isn't "shoot shit from far away." I'd allow it in my game only so I can shit on you with things that an otherwise well-rounded character could deal with.

>> No.56099773

>>56099616
While there are rules out there for inflating skill costs out there (and also rules for maintaining high skill levels; see Basic Set p. 294) I do see your point and I can agree with what you're trying to say. I would also posit, though, that you've gone about it in a fairly destructive and divisive way, which I think is kind of silly and unfair, even if your methodology was intended as a critique of the 4chan GURPS fanbase (which can be toxic at times, I won't disagree). Anyway, not that it matters to you or that it's my call in any way; I just dislike this method you picked for creating meaningful and gainful discussion.

>> No.56099774

>>56099750
>No shit you can easily kill my character if you send characters of equal skill against him.
enjoying your anger?
You don't need a character to kill your character. You'll die to the first claymore you come across.

>> No.56099788

>>56099632
Rifleanon, what are you exactly trying to prove? I've been seeing your posts for a while and I'm not sure what your point is.

That being superhumanly (not supernaturally) skilled at using one of the deadliest weapons in existance is very powerful? Is this an attempt at pointing out some perceive flaw in balance?

I don't get it honestly

>> No.56099794

>>56099702
You still have overestimated the value of high Gun skill, especially in an urban setting. Also, youre okayish perception isn't good enough to spot skilled assassins.

And wait until you see my NPCs loaded up with disadvantages - boy, you'll be surprised.

>> No.56099808

>>56099758
He fails to realize that he goes last in initiative and cannot afford to tank a single hit.

>> No.56099817

>>56099788
He's trying to prove that you can "break" GURPS, but he hasn't actually playerd the game so he's not good enough at it to break it in any believable way that could actually slip by a GM because they look reasonable at first glance.

>> No.56099818

>>56099794
NPCs shouldn't even use point values in GURPS unless you're statting them up as an Ally or similar. I realize that's tangential to what you two are talking about but I felt like it was worth mention.

>> No.56099833

>>56099702
I mean I can spend points on an armored car or tank and just run you over initiative or not.

Car-fu is the best.

>> No.56099867

>>56099758
>I'd allow it in my game only so I can shit on you with things that an otherwise well-rounded character could deal with.
You sound like the shittiest GM ever.
>Your build is shit for any challenge that isn't "shoot shit from far away."
Well, I've only got 100 points to work with.
>>56099774
>You'll die to the first claymore you come across.
Claymores require more than a 16 Perception to spot? I mean, I guess I would die. But so would most GURPS characters that don't have a 16+ Perception. Which is pretty high, by the way.

>>56099794
>I'm the GM so I can just make you fight what are essentially clones of your character, and since you're outnumbered 6-1 you'll die right out.
Okay.

>>56099808
So? I'll see my enemies and shoot them before they even get to attack.

>> No.56099884

>>56099817
He's not trying to "break" GURPS or say it's a shit system at all. Read the thread, brainlets.

If everyone on 4chan had the capability of rational thought and measured discussion we'd probably only ever have like three active threads though I guess.

>> No.56099905

>>56099867
>Claymores require more than a 16 Perception to spot?
Traps default to Per-5 to spot, plus any modifiers for conditions. So yeah.

>> No.56099908

>>56099833
Oh I did the math modern battle tanks cost 350000. With signature gear and TL 8 I get a mobile death machine with 165 dr that laughs at pitiful bullets.

It costs me 35 points.

A few points into engineering and driving and I could win with 40 points.

Simply speaking 80 points into guns isn't nearly as good as he makes it out to be.

>> No.56099927

>>56099905
Okay. Well I got a good 50/50 shot at it with a 16 Perception. But I'm sure you'll throw in modifiers just to fuck me over.
Or, y'know, since I'm part of a party, I'll have the guy who actually has experience with booby traps keeping an eye out for them, since that's not my job.
But apparently it's not my job to fill every role in the group, when I clearly went for a marksman.
I bet you get mad at fighters in D&D for not being able to disarm traps. It'd be the same bullshit logic.

>> No.56099929 [DELETED] 

>>56099867
No, you won't see them, because your perception is shit. Also, you forget that even if you cannot miss, they can still dodge.

>> No.56099933

>>56099867
>I'll see my enemies and shoot them before they even get to attack.
Consider that an M198 howitzer can shoot over the horizon.

>> No.56099937

>>56099884
Well then the other anon is right and he has no point besides trolling people who are not familiar with his "lol 80 guns" spiel.

>> No.56099940

>>56099929
>No, you won't see them, because your perception is shit.
No, it's 16. That's not exceptional for a PC, but it's far from shit.
>Also, you forget that even if you cannot miss, they can still dodge.
Not if I am 2000m away and they have no clue I am there. Read the rules.

>> No.56099954

>>56099927
>Or, y'know, since I'm part of a party
Making a lot of assumptions there, bud.

>> No.56099959

>>56099933
>"b-b-but a howitzer can shoot indirect fire farther than you and your small arms can!"
I think you're just proving my point more. If you're comparing rifles and artillery for range, then that is either a really good rifle or a really shitty piece of artillery.

>> No.56099982

>>56092533

Because GURPS CAN fill any role, so it's funny to give it as an answer. There's your mystery sokved- people like giving unhelpful answers

>> No.56099987

>>56099959
>proving my point
What point?

>> No.56100011

>>56098899
Telling someone to have a look at the biggest universal systems isn't a bad idea either.

>> No.56100019

>>56099867
You assume that you are always on the defensive. What if you actually have to go somewhere where they can use cover and concealment in their favour? Preferably not to an open plain

Even if you cannot miss, they can still dodge.


Though my main issue with '80guns' is that it is impossible to achieve skill level 31 for an average human in a realistic setting, just like it is impossible to achieve 25 strength.

>> No.56100038

>>56099937
I mean, to some extent yes. But he's also doing it for demonstrational purposes to show not only an area of improvement, but the close mindedness of the GURPS 4chan fanbase (though close mindedness fan communities is hardly unique to GURPS; pretty part and parcel of being on this site in general) and as commentary about room for improvement in the way GURPS fans handle criticism and critical thinking.

I don't necessarily approve of the way he's gone about it, but I understand the points he's attempting to illustrate (even if they're intentionally buried so you have to dig for them a bit).

>> No.56100039
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56100039

>>56092450

>> No.56100040

>>56099987
That without a GM present anyone can break any system because all rules are decided on by the player.

>> No.56100044

>>56099867
>I'll see my enemies and shoot them before they even get to attack.
Yeah, except in a building, an urban area, a suburban area, a dense wooded area, any sort of enclosed structure with rooms smaller than a gymnasium, so on. I hope you don't think every campaign takes place in an empty field

>> No.56100055

>>56099927
>since I'm part of a party

>Uncongenial
>Callous
>Bloodlust

And since such marvelous character is a practically a bordeline sociopath you assumed he has 'friends' ready to cover his ass? If so i'm sure not for long

>> No.56100061

>>56099867
>You sound like the shittiest GM ever.
Providing challenges for the players is apparently shitty GMing.
>Well, I've only got 100 points to work with.
I can build a well-rounded character that has a good chance to detect traps, shoot his gun, drive his car, and talk to people with 50 points.
>Claymores require more than a 16 Perception to spot?
No, but you are penalized if the trap is concealed.

>> No.56100064

>>56100038
You'd maybe have a point if his criticism was in any way valid, instead of a transparent troll.

The only thing he's making a commentary on is the self control of the 4chan community when it comes to trolls.

>> No.56100103

>>56100044
Or if someone decides to pull a tank or plane out of storage.

Especially considering they cost less points than his one trick pony. As shown by>>56099908

Seriously even a stealth team could probably take him because the team would beat his perception.

>> No.56100151

>>56099867

I dunno dude you've made a pretty good marksman
if you can get to a high place with good visibility on an open field, using no movement skills of any kind
if you can avoid getting shot with no dodge
if nobody manages to get lucky and sneak up on you

but its pretty good at shooting people
it should be since you spent 80% of your points on that

>> No.56100220

>>56098379

That would mean I would have to read 10-20 books on the subject matter for every subject matter. It also implies I understand the subject matter, it was written to be understood by a layman and doesn't use specific terminology.

Or you know, I can read ONE book that summarizes context on the subject, they are there because most rpg players would like those specific parts and has most of it ready to be implemented. And if you want more then you can go around and read REAL books on the subject matter. And even more now you know what to search for.

>> No.56100282

>>56099616
>Fate
>Soft rules

Ok, you really don't get it.

>> No.56100379

>>56100040
No, they are decided by the game.

>> No.56100398

>>56100055
Fucking McVeigh had Nichols. Harris had Klebold. For christs sake there are plenty of instances of psychos working together. Again with the "your character sheet says you're a loner so you have to work alone." Fine, I'll pick another quirk faggot.

>> No.56100425

>>56100061
Okay. I can adventure with that 100 point character, and do better than he would at combat, while he handles the traps.

>>56100151
>if you can avoid getting shot with no dodge
I can outrange them. Unless you actually do throw 31 guns enemies against me out of spite/realism, most of them will be in the 13-14 range. At 100m they will be rolling against 3 to hit. Maybe 7 or 8 if they aim. Yeah I'm okay with my chances. I can shoot them even if they are behind cover.

>> No.56100439

>>56100282
Explain it, then, moron.
Gonna say it's a "toolbox" like Fudge was, a 98 page document of "here's some shit you can do"? Utterly worthless. I can homebrew my own system, you know. I buy these games to save myself that time.

>> No.56100494

>>56092533
Yes I play GURPS it is fucking easy.

>> No.56100525

>>56092533
I started with gurps.
10/10 good system.

>> No.56100539

>>56092533
GURPS is better for beginning groups since it's actually a very easy system to learn and play (but it helps if the GM is experienced) and new players haven't been tainted by D&D yet and have no preconceptions.

>> No.56100591

>>56100539
>over a gazillion choices at character creation
>good for beginners

shigidigi etc.

>> No.56100596

>>56100103
A tank or plane is overkill. 80guns can be killed extremely easily by a normal human. 80guns's entire shtick is that he can effectively hit any target, that's it. Any situation where someone can shoot back and hit reliably (And rifleanon, don't fucking say "I'll shoot them before they can get in my range", see >>56100044) can go in their favor. There's multiple stumbling blocks here:

>80guns within the range of someone who goes first
>80guns within the range of multiple people
>80guns within the range of someone who knows he's coming
>80guns ambushed in close quarters
>80guns needs to reload
>80guns runs out of ammunition (!!!)
>80guns is asleep, wiping his ass, or otherwise unready for combat

Unless the entire plan for this character is "take potshots at everyone from my little hut in Kansas", he can very easily die

>> No.56100642

Lol this faggot
>>56098438

>> No.56100651

>>56100591
>year of the lord MMXVII
>not using templates to help newer players

>> No.56100715

>>56095330
>My name is Forrest
>Forrest Gun

>> No.56100783

Why do you even answer that retard at all.
Stop being so easy to bait /tg/. That's unbecoming.

>> No.56100809

>>56100783
I just like stupid internet drama that has no baring on reality.

Perfect for passing time on a long car trip.

>> No.56101328

I unironically read the rule books, made templates for my players and played my first game of GURPS last week. I had fun

>> No.56101446

>>56092450
Its not fanboyism. I have read the GURPS modules.

It can do anything. Whenever someone asks, I send them to GURPS. Because it can do it. I haven't ever played a GURPS game, it is a bit too complicated for me. But I know it can do whatever an anon is asking. Because GURPS might be the most complex system ever made

>> No.56101829

>>56101446
>gurps is the most complex system ever

That's not how you spell VTNL

>> No.56101977

>>56101446
>It's too complicated
It's literally not, it has a TON of options which makes it very overwhelming, but at it's core it's not that complicated. GURPS lite is basically the core rules of GURPS, read that and tell me it's complex.

>> No.56102029

>>56100439
Do you really think Fate is like Fudge? That was four editions ago.
I won't try to explain a narrative game to a GURPSfag, especially not to one who's hostile like you. Know however that it's not a "soft" game, it doesn't have a lot of rules but those are very precise and regulate all facets of the game. It comes to the settings from the side of "what is needed to tell this story" instead of "what is needed to simulate this world", which is clearly very different from where you are coming from. No need to houserule, no need to kitbash.
But please, feel free to disregard my post. Clearly your game is superior, your opinions are the objective truth, and all other ways to play a game of pretend are wrong.

>> No.56102171 [DELETED] 

>>56098641
I say the cut off is 15, where a character is defined as being close to a world champion in that particular skill. Anything beyond that requires unusual background.

>> No.56102305

>>56099616
Gurps says no to that senario. because you broke the main rule about the setting. Its realistic. You need some social skills with at least 1 or 2 ranks, professional training in pistols and armory for it, then some hobbies, then the capability to use computers and telecommunications. I assume your character has a driving license? Few ranks there. Now you need the physical fitness to be able to join the marines. So at least 12 STR and 12 DEX. A IQ of 11 might be needed as well. Your swimming needs to be higher, as does your navigation and survival. Also, you need to be able to drive a motorboat. If you can get these in using a 200 point background, and have the points left over for your 31 guns, go ahead. Oh, also, pay for your Military rank, and your wealth status, because you are earning more than the base level of wealth, being a member of the navy seals. Oh and you need to pass a psych eval to join the marines. You can't have bloodthirsty as a disadvantage, or sadistic

>> No.56102531

>>56102305
That sounds so tedious.

>> No.56103103

>>56102531
That's why we have templates. So you don't have to do all that yourself.

>> No.56103189

>>56102029
I'm not even a GURPS fag. FATE just seems weak and vague and boring. If you're going for narrative games, Apocalypse World actually does something interesting and has a good setting to start you off.

>> No.56103201

>>56102305
Who said I was in the Marines you dumb faggot?
Also, there is no hard rule in GURPS preventing this.
You morons have been making up bullshit for over 200 posts to try to deny a simple undeniable fact.
Just so you can avoid admitting your precious game is flawed.

>> No.56103217

>>56100596
>he can very easily die
So can anyone in GURPS.
The point is that he can snipe people from 300m in the head running without aiming and have a 90-something percent chance of hitting.
That's stupid bullshit. If he gets overwatch on an enemy camp he can snipe them all before they can fire back, more than likely.

>> No.56103219

>>56103201
GURPS is flawed, but not for the reason you presented.

>> No.56103245

>>56103217
Yea and?

Good lot of good that does him if the enemies have mobs or tanks.

>> No.56103310

>>56103103
Why don't I just play something less pedantic?

>> No.56103378

>>56103201
Gurps isn't a game, it's a toolset.

Yes a game where a GM lets people buy skills to 31 sucks. But some games don't let that happen. Some games don't even have combat.

Everything in gurps is optional, I could only use wildcard skills which would solve this problem completely. Or not use combat. Or put a skill cap. Or balance enemies vs the min-maxer.

Gurps is entirely dependent on the GM because it's the GM is the one to make the game, gurps are the tools.

>> No.56103468
File: 787 KB, 1920x1237, park-pyeongjun-100-101r.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
56103468

>>56095330
I know this is suppose to be a knock against GURPS, but being able to make a character like that actually just seems really cool.

If a GM would allow the game to be broken like this I don't really see the problem, - surely everyone would be able to make extremely powerful characters and fight equally powerful villains?

It's not like there's even a martial vs. caster thing going on here considering it's classless. Is it 'realistic', no - but I suppose if the group wanted realism they would just limit disadvantages and lower the power level, right?

http://powerlisting.wikia.com/wiki/Enhanced_Marksmanship

So, what are the other consequences of it being like this? Genuinely curious as I want to run GURPS some day - though probably not in a setting where this would be appropriate.

>> No.56103517

>>56103378
Everything you said in that post describes every game. It's a deflection.

>> No.56103588

>>56103517
So your whole argument is that gurps lets you pour points into things and make them strong right?

You realize that literally every point build game does this right?

Plus there is also the point that points in gurps don't stand on equal footing, a thousand point scientist can be chopped to pieces by a forty point warrior. If you don't agree with this then you can go play a different game, and no one will care

>> No.56104091

>>56092465

fuckin /thread

>> No.56104133

>>56103588
I didn't make an argument beyond that, I am not him, but Mutants and Masterminds seems to manage by having effective caps, power levels, etc. These serve to make it so points somewhat function as a balancing mechanism, as they do not in GURPS and prevent dumb things like this.

>> No.56104176
File: 63 KB, 600x469, Bagpipe frog.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
56104176

>>56092450
Nice, quality post OP.
You should play GURPS.

>> No.56104267

>>56103245
Same with 90% of characters that go into combat.

>>56103219
You haven't even looked at the reasons I presented, stupid fuck. Either explain some other flaws, or explain why what I displayed is not a flaw, or else fuck off. Sick of these non-argument responses.

>> No.56104672

>>56098768

Most games have an assumption that you're playing with people that aren't trying to be an asshole and screw up the game.

If the person your playing with is an asshole, he can just punch you in the face, and there's nothing the game system can do to make that fun for you.

You seem to be under the impression that the game system should keep you from being an asshole, but that's not what game systems do.

The proper response by a GM is to just not hang out with you (and certainly not play games with you).

>> No.56104834

>>56099867
>>I'm the GM so I can just make you fight what are essentially clones of your character, and since you're outnumbered 6-1 you'll die right out.
>Okay.
jokes on you, this is what you deserve before you get removed from my gaming group. this is system-independent, btw.

>> No.56104865

>>56098236
It's the same stuid argument that Batman is a realistic character. No he's not, he's just not overtly inhuman

>> No.56105028
File: 171 KB, 1200x1197, IMG_3474.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
56105028

>>56098486
OR maybe just don't be a powergamer

>> No.56105146

This thread is about 200 posts of
>RRRREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
and 100 posts of
>lol what a sperg

The reason GURPS works is because it relies on the GM and the players cooperating. The kind of munchkin attitude that makes that sort of character...and this thread...is bred by the idea that the player and the GM are out to get each other.

They're not. They're making the story together. And any group that doesn't understand this basic fact won't survive the first session.

>> No.56105159

>>56098319
correct

>> No.56105163

>>56098204
>The GURPS book is magical

>> No.56105615

>>56100398
>Fine, I'll pick another quirk faggot

>Good. Now for crying out loud spent some point in other skills. I said that this cinematic campaign is solely based on the Metal Gear series but that doesn't mean you have to come up with a complete joke of a character. Calm down an keep in mind he has to work with other 3 agents.

See, another couple of rounds like this and you can play your precious super marskman

>> No.56106093

>>56098486
>It's easier to break GURPS than 3.5, and that says a lot.

You can't break it since there is NOTHING to break: 3.5 has a framework per se, Gurps hasn't. In 3.5 the framework dictates that i'm expectet to have a specific ammount of gold in equipment for a specific level, that i can't access a specific power until i hit that specific level, that my attributes have to be around the elitè stats (15, 14, 13, 12, 10 and 8), etc..

Gurps DON'T. Why you say? Because it's a generic system, so it is expected from the Gm and the players.

You're on the assumption that 80gun man, clearly a ridicoulous cinematic character, is a completely passable character for a moundane enviroment. Bitch a character like that will be firing bullets at fucking cyborg ninjas crawling out of nowhere. And that is even besides the point that it will be not approved for such campaign, not because the 80 points in gun skill, but because it is not a full rounded, believable character

>> No.56106135

>>56100379
No, they are not.

GURPS specifically tells you "the GM decides what rules are and are not in effect" and "what is acceptable as a character in the game he is running".

By your reasoning I can use Lensman to build a viable character for any game, which is flat out incorrect.

>> No.56106153

>>56092450
I have never played with the system or even read any GURPS rulebooks:
I'll still meme the shit out of it.
GURPS is life.

>> No.56108101

GURPS requires everyone to be reasonable, which is the most unreasonable thing you could ask

>> No.56108852

>>56095653
People who can do daily around-the-house tasks generally have a single point in Housekeeping, since that's what you use to clean your house, make minor repairs, cook basic food, etc.; So this character only has a 50% chance to cook edible eggs. Imagine a six-year-old on a step stool making pancakes for the first time, or trying to scrub their crayon drawings off the wall with brillo pads. If they critically failed trying to clean a bathroom, a possible outcome could be mixing ammonia and bleach. That's how incompetent they are.

>> No.56109543

>>56092450
GURPS is genuinely a great RPG that can run most settings very well, often better than systems dedicated to said settings. GURPS being suggested for every thread is a bit of a meme, but in all honesty that's because most of the time there's some truth to it. Honestly the biggest meme surrounding GURPS is that it's complicated when at it's core it's really not. GURPS is only as complicated as you make it because it has a lot of optional rules that are really easy to get carried away with trying to use them all on your first game.

>> No.56111406

>>56098497
Eight fewer, you mean.

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