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55434190 No.55434190 [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

What went wrong.

>> No.55434203

Due to some typographical oversight all Elves are called Merfolk.

>> No.55434213

lot of cards are just boring

none of the tribes really do something unique

>> No.55434273

>>55434203
They have really colorful fins, for elves.

>> No.55434298

>>55434190
They didn't want to break Merfolk in Legacy and Modern, so they made all of the Merfolk boring shitty.

>> No.55434332

>>55434190
>inb4 hurr durr muh diversity
>inb4 hurr durr muh NWO
>inb4 hurr durr muh MaRo

>> No.55434365

>>55434190
Finally almost nothing :)

>> No.55434371
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55434371

>> No.55434377

this set is full of dinosaurs and pirates how could anything have gone wrong

>> No.55434418

>>55434377
I'm really bothered by lack of intersection though.

Unless told, you would have no idea that both those tribes exist in the same set.

>> No.55434451

>>55434418
Maybe more in the second Set, after they established the tribes in the first.

>> No.55434462

The tribes are fucking boring

>> No.55434472

>>55434462
Dinosaurs? Boring? You are fucking boring!

>> No.55434482

>>55434418
They are purposefully segmented off, there are not going to be any Pirate Dinosaurs just because you think it would be cool.

>> No.55434490

>>55434418
So what you want fucking dinosaur pirates? What intersection did Vampires have with Spirits in Innistrad? The set actually looks good, the first one in a LOOOOOONG fucking time, and youre worried that rando jank tribal pirate commons dont mention dinosaurs specifically enough. Will you mother fuckers bitch about literally anything???

>> No.55434504

>Starting a thread off with a no-effort meme

What went wrong.

>> No.55434561

>>55434418
what game do you play? Lorwyn had like 5 cross-tribal creatures and that was a decade ago. Tribes have never had "intersection" in Magic

>> No.55434587

>>55434482
No, but if there's no common conflict there's no real reason for either to become prominent. Why make a set with half ideas when you can just flesh out two new ones?

>>55434490
Innistrad's monsters were all linked by human tribal.

>> No.55434621

>>55434273
Yeah, Elves get gimmicky like that. Lorwyn elves had horns. Mirrodin elves had those kinky metal bits. And so on...

>> No.55434671

>>55434587
How the fuck is there no common conflict? All the tribes want the same thing, and are clearly fighting each other on multiple cards. I don't even know what you're trying to whine about.

>> No.55434694

>>55434671
No they aren't. Why would pirates fight dinosaurs? Dinosaurs aren't a naval force with riches.

>> No.55434757

It's ok to demonize Europeans and celebrate Mesoamerican cultures.

>> No.55434769

>>55434694
Maybe not but apparently that sun cult definitively has some beef.
>>55434757
Yep. then again, the vampire conquistador dudes dont seem particularly evil for a faction of vampires imo.
Still not sure if theyre supposed to be spanish, english or french though.

>> No.55434778

>>55434418
To me, the intersections seem pretty nice where they occur thus far. Pirates and Dinosaurs in particular feel like they'd combo well with any other tribe. Treasure is good for color fixing and makes it easier to splash, and they can use some of their utility creatures for the WB vampires or put some of their cheap spells and flyers to work with Merfolk.

Dinosaurs work well as big curve toppers for basically anyone running the proper colors.

The main place there isn't much overlap is Merfolk and Vampires, and even then they might have some WU stuff going on with their flyers or going for lifelink and +1/+1 counters.

The links between tribes aren't as strict, but they don't really have to be.

>> No.55434784

>>55434190
>What went wrong.
this kind of thread for every new thing in every hobby. What bunch of change allergic pussies.

>> No.55434811

>>55434757
the vampires have bitching conquistador armor and mustaches, giant cathedral ships, and have paladins trying to reclaim an artifact that will save them from feasting on the blood of others, of which they try to limit to heretics and nonbelievers. Show me where on the doll the shadows of SJWs are demonizing them because right now they are the most badass faction on Ixalan.

>> No.55434823

Cards are too expensive, effects are underwhelming to such a point the set will be almost ignored in standard sans a few value rares.

>> No.55434874

>>55434694
Because they all want the Immortal Sun, and they're all trying to find it both on sea and land.

Jesus, do at least a little bit of research before you bitch about something.

>> No.55435004
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55435004

>>55434757
Frankly, their depiction of the "demonized" Europeans is pretty sweet.

>> No.55435019
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55435019

>>55435004

>> No.55435029
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55435029

>>55435019

>> No.55435043
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55435043

>>55435029

>> No.55435058
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55435058

>>55435043

>> No.55435072
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55435072

>>55435058

>> No.55435087
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55435087

>>55435072

>> No.55435096
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55435096

>>55435087

>> No.55435123

>>55434757
>We need to keep bigotry, chauvinism, rape, and other shitty things in fantasy settings because of historical realism
>White people aren't allowed to be the bad guys in a Mesoamerican setting
Pick one, /pol/

>> No.55435161

>>55434418
I'm kinda glad. We've had a lot of X vs. Y sets these days. This one feels more like just a place.

>> No.55435207

whole set feels very uninspiring.
nothing cool at all.

>> No.55435212

>>55435123
Or you could come up with an original setting that doesn't reminisce history and in where diverse group is the evil guys and another diverse group is the good guys.

>> No.55435224

>>55435212
What is it with /pol/ not even bothering to look up the basics of the setting? Like, are you seriously so lazy you can't even be bothered to figure out the basic setup of Ixalan before you shitpost?

>> No.55435232

>>55435123
>We need to make settings obviously based on history
why?
>Bad dudes have to belong to a single irl race
why?

>> No.55435239

>>55434418
If it's just a flavor concern, then just look at the art.

>>55434561
>Lorwyn had like 5 cross-tribal creatures and that was a decade ago.
Lorwyn had an entire tribe of cross-tribal creatures.

>> No.55435257

>>55435123
>bigotry, chauvinism, rape,
>in Magic the Gathering
Delicious bait

>> No.55435267

They found a way to make vampire conquistadors and dinosaurs and pirates really uninteresting from a mechanical perspective.

>> No.55435289

>>55435212
Except the conquistadors are possibly the most justified faction, once you look past them being vampires and realize they're reclaiming something they once owned for the good of their entire nation.

>> No.55435357

>dinosaurs cannot sacrifice other dinosaurs to get stronger

zzzzz

where is my foodchain you hacks

>> No.55435360
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55435360

>>55434694
>Doesn't look at the cards
>Doesn't read the lore
>Bitches about it anyway
Classic /tg/


>>55434757
Vampire Conquistadors are way cooler than Meso/Elf Merfolk, and honestly it's probably the most "good guy" portrayal of a whole Vampire faction I've seen wizards do; they're picky about who they drink from and are honestly trying to cure their bloodlust. I hope we get some cool characters out of them.

>> No.55435413

>>55434757
Ah the good old /pol/tards and their persecutory delusions.

>> No.55435427

>>55435360
It's almost as though these people who constantly bitch about identity politics don't actually play the game and aren't remotely interested by it. Where have I heard about those sort of people before?

>> No.55435431

>>55435360
>They're picky
Draining "enemies" is not very picky. You could say the same of Zendikar and Innistrad ones.

>> No.55435476

>>55435431
Until shown otherwise, they're certainly more benevolent than vampires from either of those planes. They only drink from heretics, enemies of the state and criminals. Judging from the lore that cites that vampires are the nobility of Torrezon, this means that they have a living lower class population that they don't actually feed on, that they rule over without sucking any blood. This is much more pleasant than Innistrad vampires, who protect humanity solely for the purpose of maintaining their food supply and Zendikar vampires, who required an apocalypse in order for them to work alongside mortals and gladly preyed on mortals before that.

>> No.55435491

>>55435476
>This is much more pleasant than Innistrad vampires, who protect humanity solely for the purpose of maintaining their food supply
And let's not forget that they were actually pretty bad at that.

>> No.55435517

>>55434332
But MaRo is literally the MtG devil that keeps things unfun and lame and expensive

>> No.55435564
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55435564

>What went wrong
Jesus Christ, the fucking set hasn't even been released and you're already complaining? How are you that utterly determined to shit on everything? Mother of fuck, dude.

>> No.55435580

>>55434418
There is intersection between tribes. There literally needs to be to make limited work. However, the intersection isn't as shallow as making pirates that care about dinosaurs or making Merfolk Vampires. Why do you think they decided to make treasure ramp?

>> No.55435588

>>55435564
I read the cards and it will have next to no effect on standard.

>> No.55435598

>>55435564
I've run six different simulations of Ixalan prerelease night on Cockatrice and after running the numbers, I can confirm less than ten Ixalan cards will see any play in standard.

It's garbage.

>> No.55435619

>>55435588
I remember when people said this about vehicles and energy.
I remember when people said this about Delirium.
I remember when people said this about the new Ulamog, Kozilek and Emrakul.
I remember when people said this about Converge.
I remember when people said this about flipwalkers.

>> No.55435628

>>55435357
Enrage mechanically represents this, though it isn't necessarily flavorfully related. Enrage encourages lots of fighting, blocking, and direct damage between creatures
>>55435267
What else exactly would you do to mechanically represent them that would be more "interesting" than what they did? Keep in mind both pirates and dinosaurs have like 3 things going on.

>> No.55435643

>>55434757
Let's lionize plunderers, looters, and war criminals instead, haha.

>> No.55435645

>>55435357
>>55435628
Not only that, but the Dinosaur tribal is inherently tied up with the Sun Empire and their tame dinosaurs. It isn't like Jund where you want them all to be eating eachother all the time.

>> No.55435654

>>55435619
Who ever said that about those cards that are obviously powerful? The only thing that will see play are the relics and some replacement removal and burn spells.

Name a card in Ixalan better than Bristling Hydra, Glorybringer, Scarab God, or Walking Ballista.

Sometimes it is just a shitty set, like Dragons Maze. Hell it mirrors Dragons Maze to a tee.

>> No.55435665

>>55435645
Well, their dinosaurs aren't tame, but the idea is that in general the Empire works in harmony with nature. It isn't flavorfully correct for them to have a mechanic like Devour (though what they DOES make perfect sense for the "noble savage" archetype they're trying to convey).

>> No.55435671

>>55434190

just one of the best blocks ever seen in magic senpai, dunno what you're talking about.

>> No.55435676

>>55435643
Is it seriously that hard for /pol/ to realize that there are no good guys and bad guys in this narrative, just a bunch of people fighting over the same thing? Is that too morally complex for them to wrap their head around?

>> No.55435683

>>55434190

Hodgepodge set made out of 4 things that couldn't fill a set on their own. Then slap a tribal/multicolor faction set on top, things that every normie under the sun loves.

And presto; Ixalan

>> No.55435694

Not enough trilobites.
No trilobite empire.
Too many card-thieves.
Community grown far too toxic for its own good.

>> No.55435695

>>55435123
If you like diversity so much make the bad guys the non-mesoamericans this time.

>> No.55435716

>>55435654
Just going with the most recent example, do you really not recall how a large portion of /tg/ insisted that vehicles would not see constructed play, not a single one?

Do you not recall the disappointment that Ramunap Ruins was not a Lightning Bolt reprint or invocation and that it instead was a trashy land that wouldn't even see play in the jankiest casual deck?

Do you not remember how all eight of the Amonkhet gods were considered completely garbage and absolutely unplayable?

>> No.55435746

>>55435716
No because I generally don't browse /tg/ and i just play standard on MTGO. And after playing 200+ matches and reading the spoiler I see next to nothing that's going to effect the field besides adding some new bad slow decks for Temur Energy and Approach to beat.

>> No.55435756

>>55435289
justifying the conquistadors and their looting is fucking disgusting senpai, It's one of my top reasons for hating this setting, haw haw haw.

Depicting the Spanish as vampires is absolutely on-point, though.

>> No.55435760

>>55435643
>It has to be A or B, is not like there's an entire abecedary of options
Or, you know, not make a setting obviously based on history so you can demonize one side

>> No.55435776

>>55435665
Hualti rides a dinosaur through a crowd of people without it attacking anyone, has it wear armor, and they have stables for their raptors.

That's literally the definition of tame. Granted, not all of the dinos seem to be that as depicted, but at the very least the faction as a whole is less 'wild animals' and more 'you stumbled upon a carefully arrayed ambush of dinosaurs prodded to your vicinity by the natives'

>> No.55435780

>>55435683
Everything besides the merfolk make perfect sense for the proposed setting, and the merfolk add an additional angle that many mesoamerican themed worlds lack, that is to say making at least a few of the different ancient mesoamerican cultures actually different rather than being an amalgam. It's a little disingenuous to say the tribal was "slapped on" (its not really a multicolor set not sure where the fuck you got that, having factions in multiple colors doesn't make you a multicolor set) because it makes sense for the idea for the setting is different factions vying for control, though you could argue the tribes themselves seem random. It's not really a "hodgepodge". It's at most two very clear themes which is EVERY set (a mechanical hook + theme to flavor the mechanics), the age of exploration theme and the tribal theme, and I reiterate that tribal makes a lot of sense here in the same way lands matter makes sense for a world about adventures like Zendikar, so the themes blend themselves quite well, to the point that before we got the Making Magic articles I for one couldn't tell whether the set was top down or bottom up.

>> No.55435787

>>55435746
Oh well, see you in three months time when you completely forget your predictions after they turned out to be wrong, only to shitpost Rivals of Ixalan next.

>> No.55435800

>>55435776
Fair enough and I suppose it's a little pedantic. It's just they seemed to want to make it very clear their dinosaurs aren't "tame" in the strictest sense in the worldbuilding panel and the flavor text. It seems more like the dinosaurs follow people when the people show they are strong enough. Kind of like, trying to link to their animal instincts and make themselves appear as strong leaders to convince the dinosaurs to help them.

>> No.55435802

>>55435760
I like settings that are based on history a lot in general but my favorite settings MTG has visited are Arabian Nights and Three Kingdoms, so I'm a biased fucker.

>> No.55435805

>>55435787
literally name a card that effects the format from the spoiler.

I'll wait.

>> No.55435830

>>55435805
You are a dumb dumb nigger if you think Walk the Plank isn't going to be a piece of premier removal even with its limitations

>> No.55435832

>>55435800
No, we've seen they are very clearly tame. The justification of them being in white is that they are tame. We just got in the latest story Huatli controlling her mount through some form of telepathy.

>> No.55435839

>>55435830
It's replacing black removal rotating out from BFZ/SoI it doesn't change the U/B Control deck at all.

>> No.55435840

I'm a little disappointed that there isn't a card representing the vampire queen.

>> No.55435847

>>55435805
I'm not dumb enough to try and predict something that I don't have all the information on yet.

So wait as long as you like, you won't get an answer until the middle of October, when it has become apparent you were wrong.

>> No.55435849

>>55435840
Why would she be away from the continent?

>> No.55435860

>>55435832
The justification for white is that dinosaurs follow strong leaders based on flavor text for that shitty big butt white vanilla. Dinosaur knights don't appear to have particular domesticated amounts, it seems like they call whatever dinosaurs are around. I assume that's why Huatli didn't get or make a legendary dinosaur.

>> No.55435864

>>55435840
>>55435849
Next sets. I hope.

>> No.55435865

>>55435840
She's not present on Ixalan, she's back home on the vampire continent.

Expect her to maybe show up in the middle of Rivals or for her to appear in one of the next EDH sets.

>> No.55435873

>>55435847
>I can't find a single obviously powerful card in the spoiler despite my supposed superior intellect and prediction abilities but you're still wrong

This is obviously your first rodeo if you think a weak constructed set is some sort of uncommon occurrence.

>> No.55435874

>>55435800
I think it's more that there's a mix, but in terms of Dinosaur tribal, them working together is the work of the Sun Empire. On a more savage plane, they might have had a setup based more around them eating eachother, but here the tribal interaction is going to be in the context of the natives using them to fight off invaders most of the time.

>> No.55435878

>>55435839
>NAME ONE CARD THAT'LL GET USED I'LL WAIT HURR HURR
>Name one
>D-DOESN'T COUNT IT'S JUST REPLACING AN OLD CARD

>> No.55435892

>>55435878
I said that effects the format, 4 Walk The Planks replacing 4 Grasp of Darkness is not an effect on the format cum guzzler.

>> No.55435898

>>55435860
Maro has literally said on blogatog that the justification for dinos in white is that they are domesticated.

>> No.55435908

>>55435892
Getting used is "affecting the format". By what shitty definition are you using to define "affects the format", and why are you backpedaling to a clearly much more narrow definition than your initial idiot post that implied no card from Ixalan was going to do shit?

>> No.55435910

>>55435865
Yeah, but do any of the faction leaders show up on a card?

>> No.55435911

>>55435873
Consider that you're stating that literally no card in Ixalan will have any impact on standard, whereas I am suggesting that at least one card, although I cannot say which, will probably have an impact on standard.

Which is the bolder statement?

>> No.55435921
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55435921

>>55435865
I thought that was the reason....
Wonder if they could make a flavor card about the queen.
Something like "she cant attack or block" because she isnt really there, but on other continent.
or dont know if she would show up eventually....
But I cant imagine why she would show up in person on Ixalan.
Maybe if the rest of the world exploded and the only save place at the moment is Ixalan..... but thats dumb

>> No.55435924

>>55435898
Literally said in the worldbuilding panel that dinosaurs are not domesticated because they were directly asked that exact question. I genuinely think the worldbuilding team knows more specifics about the setting than Maro does.

>> No.55435947

>>55435910
The Sun Empire's emperor has no card.
The Legion of Dusk's queen has no card.
We do not know if the River Heralds have a leader or who the leader is, but we might have gotten a card for them.
Similarly, we do not know if the Brazen Coalition has a leader or who the leader is, yet I am willing to place a bet on Admiral Beckett Brass being the closest thing.

>> No.55435948

>>55435908
Affecting the format means changing the distribution of decks at the top of the meta in a significant way. Changing the text on a doom blade does not change the fact Temur Energy will remain the best deck.

>>55435911
I'm not saying literally 0 cards from Ixalan will be played, I simply stated there are no new archetype defining giant cards that will challenge the meta in any particular fashion. Maybe you should get out of your armchair and play the format sometime.

>> No.55435963

>>55435924
Domestication is distinct from taming. Domestication implies that they're like dogs and are loyal out of the egg. Taming just implies that a dinosaur can be befriended and do things such as wear armor or rest in a stable or not kill random people.

There are dinosaurs on Ixalan that are 100% for certain Tame. That isn't up for debate.

>> No.55435966
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55435966

>>55435910
maybe?

>>55435948
maybe there isnt enough imagination in the world left to have new archetypes...

>> No.55435969

>>55435947
I suspect they are holding out for EDH shekels.

>> No.55436001

>>55435948
See you in the middle of October. Then we'll see if Ixalan has affected the format or not.

>> No.55436010

>>55435947
Actually I think the River Herald's leader does have a card (I believe it's Tishana) though A) they seem to have more than one and B) I guess there's the guy in the flavor text of Overwhelming Insight who appears he may be the main leader and he doesn't have a card yet so I guess it doesn't count.

I don't think there's an overall leader for pirates unless it's Beckett Brass though, it seems there are jut multiple factions each with their own captain.

>> No.55436014

>>55436001
When some removal and counter spells have swapped and some janky ramp deck just as irrelevant as G/W Ramp appears using Dinosaurs is all that changed I'll be happy to talk to you again.

>> No.55436023

>>55435840
Im more disappointed that vampires are going to get fucked hard by dynosaurs

>> No.55436032

>>55436014
I will be very surprised if there isn't some sort of UX pirate tempo deck. There is a lot of constructed level support for that.

>> No.55436033

>>55434504

Don't be lazy. You need to take a screen cap of the OPs post and then say "What went wrong."

>> No.55436059
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55436059

>>55434190
Major character in the set, the FACE of the fucking set, doesn't go with any of the tribes or any of the mechanics, and has been shoehorned into working for Bolas despite having no prior interaction with him and her whole character being based on, "I don't like being told what to do" in assassin form. Also nobody questions why she has snakes for hair.

Faction based on mesoamerican empire has steel age technology for some reason and is described as being an "empire" despite being monocultural and not having any other factions or states to expand against, making them an empire in exactly zero of the classic definitions.

No evidence of pirates committing piracy at any point, they're just standard pop culture "pirates" which are just edgy sailor people who spend as much time on land as the plot will allow.

Instead of the preexisting Gold mechanic we have a new, incompatible Treasure mechanic because they were worried it would break Improvise from AER - as usual making things shitty for eternal formats in favor of Standard. (I'm giving 3-1 odds that Standard breaks again anyway, any takers?)

Jace levels intensifying.

Yet. Another. Native. Planeswalker. This one's story introduction thing showed the moment she sparks, which would have been cool on paper except the thing that caused her to spark was literally just, "she was losing a fight." She's a warrior, described as one of the best if not THE best in the sun empire, and yet one brief scuffle with a Minotuar with a hot metal chain was so traumatic that she sparked. Compare this to, say, Lilliana being chased by her screaming tormented dead brother after she damned him to eternal suffering, or Chandra accidentally casting Fireball for 20.

No Masterpieces. In a set with a theme about treasure hunting, full of pirates and exotic ancient locations, if there was any damn set that should have masterpieces in the pack, it's this one!

Lastly, pic related should be an uncommon and NOT A FUCKING MYTHIC.

>> No.55436078

The sets mechanics are the big failing to me.
Explore had huge potential but it is limited to creatures only "for flavour" on top of being overcosted. Only one explore creature is costed normally (the 2/1 Merfolk).
Treasure has a similar fate - they would be fantastic if they didn't greatly increase the cost of all effects to get them. You know you messed up when the best looking cards for the mechanic cost 5 CMC (counterspell and black enchantment).
Enrage is the best by far but it is on extremely few cards. This should become a mechanic that gets brought back in the future like Raid, Madness, etc. Lots of design space and R&D should love it as it goes on creatures.
Overall the tribes are pretty bland. Not boring, but played very safe.

The most impactful card on Standard out of the whole set is Lightning Strike. Think about that.

>> No.55436097

>>55436059
>Faction based on mesoamerican empire has steel age technology for some reason
I won't argue with the rest but regarding this, they're purposefully avoiding a perfect copy of the Aztecs. They want there to be technological equality between the invaders and the natives, leading to the Mesoamerican-analogue having access to the means of making steel.

>> No.55436106

>>55435360
Flavor should be in the cards. A great example of this is Ravnica and Lorowyn, sets where you knew exactly what was going on without ever having to read a story.

Like you knew about the shift or the mazerunners just from the overwhelming presence in the art. If you glanced over the whole set in a couple of seconds you'd say "oh I get it". Even the Aether Revolt plane had this going for it.

This is just a place with injuns and pirates and vampires and dinosaurs. It feels like the devs just wanted "BADASS DUDE, PIRATES! DINOS!"

>> No.55436138

>>55434190
Jace is in the set = auto no buy.

>> No.55436140

>>55436059
I could pick apart literally everything here except the fact that Vraska is BG which is only a small niggling issue (but does clearly support pirate themes contrary to what you said) and I actually did notice her sparking was kind of weak. It was against a major and presumably very powerful planeswalker but eh.

>> No.55436142

>>55435004
>>55435029
>>55435043
>>55435072
>>55435087
>>55435096

Say whatever you want about the block, but these vampire conquistadores are fucking awesome.

>> No.55436156

>>55436078
>Explore had huge potential but it is limited to creatures only "for flavour" on top of being overcosted.
That's because the creature always either becomes on or above curve or draws you a card.

>> No.55436169

>>55436138
didn't wotc said that Jace is going to be in every set ever from now on?

>> No.55436179

>>55436078
>Explore had huge potential but it is limited to creatures only "for flavour" on top of being overcosted.
That's because the creature always either becomes on or above curve or draws you a card.
>>55436106
>Like you knew about the shift or the mazerunners just from the overwhelming presence in the art. If you glanced over the whole set in a couple of seconds you'd say "oh I get it". Even the Aether Revolt plane had this going for it.
The irony of this is palpable. The fact that the general public had no fucking clue what the story was for RTR/The Secretist from the card was explicitly one of the reasons they tried to change how they did story. I bet no one had a damn clue what Emmara's relation was to Jace or that Ral Zarek had it out for the Izzet Maze Runner because he was jealous.

>> No.55436198

>>55436169
Yep they did, wtf wotc

>> No.55436254

>>55436179
We've just replaced the story being vague with the story being hammered in on every card to appeal to the lowest common denominator. As though it's such a masterpiece that they want to make sure everyone is invested in the plot.

Of course, this is at the expense of actually making the world feel established and cohesive through art and flavortext. Ixalan's factions only feel connected when reading about them, while the cards themselves make everything feel incredibly disjointed.

>> No.55436267

>>55436179
It's almost like the story sucks and is completely irrelevant for 99% of players beyond flavor and vague plot points. The fact Planeswalker hate is so rampant should be a clue that nobody cares about the Secretists and that interplane smuggling society.

A good flavor will do Wizards better than a good story.

>> No.55436318

>>55435676

Honestly, I'm sorta expecting the next set to involve 'Oh shit, finding the gold city was a BAD PLAN/The merfolk were keeping it from us for a good reason' and to see some blending between the factions as they all try to avoid dying to whatever they released.

>> No.55436326

>>55436254
>Of course, this is at the expense of actually making the world feel established and cohesive through art and flavortext. Ixalan's factions only feel connected when reading about them, while the cards themselves make everything feel incredibly disjointed.
I disagree. In fact a lot of the cards show relationships and interaction between the different tribes, and that's just looking at art. I don't know the fuck you could say this with a straight face.

>> No.55436344

>>55436318
I think the Immortal Sun is still gonna be something they want, since the second set is still called "Rivals of Ixalan", which doesn't sound like the name of a set where everyone is trying to escape from a bad thing. But It's almost certainly the case that rather than being a good thing whoever has it will be able to do something very bad.

>> No.55436358

>>55436097
>They want there to be technological equality between the invaders and the natives
Why the fuck do you need technological equality when both factions have magic and one faction HAS DINOSAURS

Hell, this is fantasy land. If you tell me one faction has steel swords and the other faction has bronze or bone armor that can stand up to the steel swords "because magic or something, I dunno" I would probably be okay with it. MTG's sense of what can win a fight with what has always been kind of dumb if you look at it too long - remember that it only takes 15 squirrels to kill Emrakul.

>> No.55436363
File: 1.56 MB, 1060x1110, MtG_Immortal_Sun.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
55436363

>>55436106
The fact that the factions of the block are hunting for the Golden City and its Immortal Sun is present on at least ten cards.

>> No.55436387

I feel like WOTC kind of demonizes maleness, look at the fun loving, freedom centric pirate faction thats depicted as female vs the very male vampire faction that is shown as a pack of blood thirsty exterminators.

though the clearest evidence of this line of thought is the fact that angles are always depicted as women and demons always as men.

>> No.55436400

>>55436358
The problem is the real world setting Ixalan is inspired is controversial specifically in part because of the vast technological superiority of one of the factions involved. This mitigates this at the cost of historical accuracy which is so low on the totem pole I honestly can't believe people really give a shit they dared to give Aztecs steel armor. I'm more glad they gave it them for a reason rather than just giving them armor without knowing it was a historical inaccuracy. The creative choice was deliberate. The goal isn't to make an exact replication of real life, it's a world inspired by it.

>> No.55436420

>>55436358
To break the perception that these natives are primitive and backwards, instead trying to give the appearance of an equal playing field. Both factions have access to magic, powerful combatants (ancient vampire and huge dinosaurs) and (relatively) advanced military technology.

>> No.55436444

>>55436326
How about the fact that pirates are busy building flying machines and massive fortresses that pipe lava from volcanoes to use as cannons, while the vampires have the weight of an entire empire behind them and are struggling to build more than a wooden fort?

Apart from the fact that everyone hates eachother and are all after the one piece, it's very unclear how specifically each faction feels about the others from the cards. Compared to another tribal set with Lorwyn, it's a lot easier to get the impression of what the interactions between any given tribes would be. There are snippets of their day-to-day interactions, which are willing to work together, and which despise the others and for what reasons. Compared to Innistrad, you get less insight onto how the various factions think and how the different monsters are treated by humans.

There's no substance, only flash

>> No.55436493

>>55436156
The problem is that for constructed purposes you can't count on either effect. If you want the land thinning you are better of just using more card draw. You can already get "on curve" bodies for most colours - and these guys are not guaranteed to be that big. Explore is a constructed worthy mechanic that is only slapped on limited cards. Complete dissapointment.

>> No.55436557

>>55435780

No, the set is not multicolor, but it heavily features multicolor factions. I for one am sick and tired of Wizards aping Ravnica, but can also understand why people love it, ever since gold cards became an evergreen thing. And I dont think dinosaurs are a good fit at all. They just feel like they're there because neither they nor the Age Of Exploration thing were big enough to fill a set on their own.

The whole thing feels like a thrown-together filler to me. But that's like, my opinion, man.

>> No.55436560

>>55436344

I'm expecting the Red/Black Pirates to end up with it. At least, to start off/make things worse.

>> No.55436588

>>55436156
I think the issue is that since you're never sure which benefit you'll get, that the card needs to come out slightly ahead when compared to things with a similar cost, size, and effect. After all, why run Tishana's wayfinder and either get a 3/3 for 3 or a 2/2 with a card draw, when you could instead just play something like Ranging Raptors, where you're guaranteed more size and land for the same cost?

There needs to be a reward for the risk above just what you would get for the same price elsewhere. The uncertainty means it needs to be more pushed.

>> No.55436596

>>55434757
Agreed.

>> No.55436598

>>55436444
Again, I disagree. We have a very clear sense of how the tribes interact with each other. I think the biggest thing they didn't explain on cards was the relationship between The Empire and the Heralds. Otherwise, we both know from card interactions in flavor text and art, and ALSO because we know from history how the factions interact with each other. This is different form Lorwyn in the sense that that world was built from scratch. Ixalan has it easier because we can glean how, for example, the Sun Empire feels about the Legion of Dusk because we know the Sun Empire are Aztecs and we know the Legion of Dusk are spanish conquistadors and we know they feel about each other.

>> No.55436617

>>55436363
>Asshurt Wo*C fanboy detected

This isn't beaten into the feel of the set through box art or card art, it's in flavor texts, something people often don't read (Wo*C even says this in their own research). They could have had a golden city painted on a wall or on a map or something but instead it's written under the card rules on a smattering of cards where the art is dudes yelling and posing.

Ask the most casual MtG player what any of the last 4 sets were about amd I think you will find a shocking answer, that nobody knows or cares.

>> No.55436651

>>55436557
Dinosaurs + aztecs is a pretty common combination dude. It's not a weird thing. Also because they use feathered dinosaurs there's an aesthetic relation as well. They color code factions in sets because it makes them easier for people to categorize and relate to and also because archetypes in limited need to be spread through multiple colors, which means the tribal based factions also needed to be spread across multiple colors. That's really it. They know people really like color coded factions, and yes it is because of Ravnica. It's not really inherently a bad thing. Ixalan is distinct because it has a very unique color set up.

>> No.55436663

>>55436059
>because they were worried it would break Improvise from AER
But improvise is AFTER activating mana abilities, you can't double down in the way you're suggesting.

>> No.55436694

>>55436598
You're just explaining why it feels lazy though. Lorwyn feels rich because they had to take the time and energy to convey those relationships in the cards. Ixalan feels half-hearted because they're expecting you to open a history textbook to see where they stole their inspiration from.

Of course you can get that the Sun Empire doesn't like the Legion of Dusk. That much is obvious. They both want the same macguffin. The Legion of Dusk is invading. Very basic stuff.

But that doesn't tell me how these old-world vampires felt when they saw dinosaurs for the first time. It doesn't tell me how the Sun Empire felt about finding out these people drank blood. Do the Merfolk know about this weird bat god? Where does he stand in the Sun Empire's belief system?

It's all very surface level elements that's just relying on you to see natives and conquistadors and make assumptions.

>> No.55436723

>>55436617
Must you respond to genuine evidence that you were incorrect with insults?

In addition to that, ask the most casual MtG player what Dragon's Maze was about and I think you'll find a similarly shocking answer, that no one knows or cares about that set either, not when it first came out and certainly not now either.

Additionally, please point out the box art or card art of any Dragon's Maze cards that refer to the Dragon's Maze and what it actually is, since that is the cited example of "good" flavor representation.

>> No.55436733

Blandest tribes ever, especially considering the set is focused solely on them

>Timmy creatures with a lazy mechanic in Naya
>Fast tempo creatures without a particular common theme (also another lazy mechanic)
>Vampires with lifegain
>Generic +1/+1 mechanic n372642

>> No.55436764
File: 15 KB, 363x139, download.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
55436764

>>55434190
Kaladesh went wrong. The set is leagues ahead (powerwise) of the other standard legal sets. It's hard for anything else to compete.

>> No.55436796
File: 44 KB, 441x306, 1453752965821.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
55436796

>lots of playable commons and uncommons
>mythics arent pushed besides maybe Jace

I dunno, it seems pretty good to me, but I do hate that Dinos and Pirates are gonna come out with much better cards than Merfolk and Vampires due to the fact they are the newer tribes.

>> No.55436827

>>55436796
Vampires and Merfolk just feel like they have nothing going on for them. The lifelink idea doesn't seem to have much for it as a tribal theme, and Merfolk seem very confused on what their tribal theme even is. It's like having a watered down Simic and Orzhov with less +1/+1 counters and less life drain.

I can't see running either of them without also including a big helping of Dinos or Pirates to actually fill in the gaps, and in that case it feels more like the bigger factions snagging some specific cards for the utility.

>> No.55436836

>>55436796
I don't see Jace really fitting into any decks, he doesn't even seem very good, even for 3 mana.

>> No.55436840

>>55436694
We don't such specific details from Lorwyn as how the factions felt meeting each other for the first time" just from the cards either.

Also using real world inspiration to help make it easier for us to understand how the factions feel about each other isn't "lazier", it's "smarter". People like things they can understand easier. I also feel like you are way over valuing Lorwyn's worldbuilding. It's not especially compelling worldbuilding that "elves hate everyone because they aren't elves, nobody likes boggarts because they are ugly hedonists, kithkin are an insular community and prefer not to interact with other tribes" etc. It's more a conceit to explain tribal gameplay in general to be honest rather than deep or compelling worldbuilding.

>> No.55436871

>>55436059
>Not related to tribes and mechanics.
Vraska is clearly pirate related and her mechanics tie into using treasure (including the way you're meant to pay for green).

>Empire despite being monocultural and having no-one to expand against.
What are the merfolk?

>No evidence of pirates committing piracy?
Have you even looked at the set? Why don't you start with Hijack and work your way from there.

>Gold
Why does it matter what you name the tokens? Better to be safe than sorry.

>Native PW.
She was being burnt alive with chains moments after seeing her beloved pet murdered.

>No Masterpieces.
I agree it's a flavour fail. BFZ had them because Zendikar is an adventure plane. We get adventure plane 2.0 and apparently it's not the right place.

>Carnage Tyrant
Agree again. The justification for Mythic was always story relevance or complexity. This is neither. It's just evergreen keywords. I'd accept it as rare because it's a big creature but it's clearly a pushed mythic cash grab.

>> No.55436872

>>55435760
Good thing that isn't present in this setting then, eh?

>> No.55436885
File: 32 KB, 223x310, Image (14).jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
55436885

So, as someone who stopped playing in 2003, but still casually keeps up with the game, please help me. Looking at the card previews, how can you say this set will be worse than the "great" sets like Innistrad Draft or Ravnica Constructed? Is it card complexity, versatility of archetypes, or something as simple as flavor? Seeing guilds and tribes tend to go over well, I figured this set would look to be a smash hit.

>> No.55436887

>>55435096
This is a really nice piece.

>> No.55436890

>>55436827
Right now, vampires have nothing for their tokens to do, maybe next set will bring some aristocrat-type tools. Merfolk look like they want to get +1/+1 counters and then go unblockable, but you get a much better deal out of that using UB flying pirates. Better removal as well.

>>55436836
if UB pirate aggro takes off, he could slot into that, but he is dependent on your creatures' evasion.

>> No.55436898

>>55436840
Are we looking at the same Lorwyn cards? Because I remember far more details of them than the memes you seem to be spouting about them.

You could have just saved a lot of time by saying you don't know what you're talking about.

Either way, the fact still remains that them requiring additional reading leaves the set itself feeling lacking. That's true by your own admission, and it's not like they used that baseline to establish anything more complicated on top of it.

>> No.55436924

>>55436885
It probably will be a big hit, people like flavor.
I just don't see it influencing standard very much.

>> No.55436947

>>55436885
Its flavour is on point. It's just a weak set compared to Kaladesh (A set which has forced several bans already).

>> No.55436953

>>55436898
Point out a Lorwyn block card that depicts the Great Aurora, one of the greatest plot points of the block, in its card art.

>> No.55436969

>>55436898
>Are we looking at the same Lorwyn cards? Because I remember far more details of them than the memes you seem to be spouting about them.
>You could have just saved a lot of time by saying you don't know what you're talking about.
Prove it. Prove Lorwyn is deeper than Ixalan. You can't just say "Yeah you don't know shit and I won't say why".
>>55436898
>That's true by your own admission
I admitted no such thing. What I "admitted" was that Ixalan factions are easier to understand than interactions inherently because they are based on historical figures, not that by doing that they showed less on cards. This >>55436363 actually reminded me they did show more interaction between the empire and the heralds than I even remembered.

>> No.55437002

>>55436947
Artifact blocks have literally always ruined the game with no exception.
I don't know why WOTC keeps trying

>> No.55437019

>>55437002
People love artifacts.

>> No.55437022

>>55436947
This and Amonkhet are fantastic blocks for Standard, but yea the whole thing is still going to be held underwater by Energy cancer for another year.
Looking forward to playing again next year though

>> No.55437035

>>55436953
It's not really a matter of just showing it (though Ixalan also does better at that), the cards did explain there was an aurora iirc. The question is what in the world makes anybody think the interactions between the tribes on Lorwyn was somehow more interesting than the ones on Ixalan.

>> No.55437042
File: 116 KB, 223x311, Image.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
55437042

We just need the first line of this card on a body for 2 CMC and the format is saved

>> No.55437068

>>55437035
But no one reads the flavor text, the point of this is to depict through card art the plot of the block.

So I want to see some card art that depicts the Great Aurora and how it changes Lorwyn into Shadowmoor in a way that the most casual player can understand without misinterpretation, without the assistance of flavor text that they do not read. I mean, surely Lorwyn must have this, as it was such a masterpiece of visual storytelling in comparison to shitty new sets.

>> No.55437069

>>55437042

Why?

>> No.55437078

>>55437042
They probably started with that (the card is very obviously an energy hoser) and the card was too shit and limited to be worth a damn.

>> No.55437083
File: 96 KB, 1024x749, Phyrexian-unlife.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
55437083

>>55437042
>tfw

>> No.55437095

>>55437068
I was arguing from the perspective that the entire card was taken into account and I think the other guy was too.

>> No.55437108

>>55437095
Nope. See >>55436617. Flavor text doesn't count, only box art and card art is viable.

>> No.55437109

>>55436890
The vampire tokens are there more or less to power Vona to use her 7 life ability without great risk.

>> No.55437126

>>55437108
Oh I think that's a different guy than the one I was arguing with. Fair enough

>> No.55437142

>>55436890
The tokens are tools to generate life for life costs, though there aren't as many as I expected in the set.

>> No.55437214

>>55436663
They specifically said they were worried it would break improvise. You can tap it for improvise and then spend the mana on some other spell. You con't get double use for one spell, but you still get double use.

>> No.55437217

>>55437069
Shutdown energy decks

>> No.55437300

Whats with the overly meme themes lately? Cats, pirates and dinosaurs? Sounds like bad taste.

>> No.55437323

>>55436969
>"Yeah you don't know shit and I won't say why".

You want to know why? Because you tried to boil down the tribes of Lorwyn to your simple and wrong interpretations

Elves dislike things that are ugly. It happens that most things in that category are non-elves, but cards like Game-trail changeling show that there are some other shapes they find admirable, and Ambassador Oak shows that they ally themselves with Treefolk, even if they do see themselves superior.

Boggarts are disliked by elves for being ugly, though the main conflicts with other tribes involve them stealing or doing something obnoxious without having empathy for the consequences.

Your description of Kithkin sounds like you're thinking of Shadowmoor where they're paranoid to the extreme. Cards like Wellgrabber Apothecary, Cloudgoat Ranger, and Kithkin Greatheart show that they're more than willing to work alongside a number of other races, particularly to avoid the hunts of elves and annoyances of Boggarts.

Flamekin themselves show an intense hostility towards Elves and Treefolk by extension in many of their cards, though do so in a bid for freedom of all races. They too aren't above teamwork, as shown in Blades of Velis Vel. Of course, you also see their disdain for Fairies with Fencer Clique.

I could go on, but you see how the bits and pieces add up. How the way various tribes feel about eachother is built up across numerous cards and giving you a wider picture of the world as a whole and how things link together. And this is with a set where there are 8 tribes, rather than just 4. That's twice the number of relations to worry about and yet they still managed to make them more compelling and detailed rather than simply assuming the players had read a history book.

>> No.55437331

>>55436871
>What are the merfolk?
I wouldn't know, they didn't bother to give them an identity. They certainly aren't any sort of state an "empire" would have to worry about.

>Have you even looked at the set?
This is /tg/, none of us look at the set

>Why does it matter what you name the tokens?
Because we have effects that care about you having treasure tokens, but no cards from outside the set make treasure or care about treasure. It's a completely parasitic mechanic and that problem could have been avoided by just making them work like Gold and calling them Gold instead of Treasure. Clues from SOI had the same problem, but they didn't have an existing type of token they could have been, so there was no easy remedy.

>> No.55437356
File: 3.34 MB, 1655x2211, manateers.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
55437356

>>55434190
I fucking wonder what could it's MaRo

>> No.55437369

>>55437068
Declaration of Naught hints at it, but you don't see the Aurora mentioned in Lorwyn because it hasn't happened yet. Conversely, you see it mentioned on numerous cards in Shadowmoor, unambigiously pointing out how the races and people from Lorwyn were changed into these, and that it affected the entire world in that way.

>> No.55437414
File: 132 KB, 200x279, 636395124718694823.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
55437414

Love the flavor of the set, but I've got one big question: who are the Pirates stealing from? They have a theme of opposition, but who is the opposition to?

>> No.55437423
File: 264 KB, 1920x1882, viktor-titov-12-08-2017-girl2.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
55437423

>>55435123
>We need to keep bigotry, chauvinism, rape, and other shitty things in fantasy settings because of historical realism
>White people aren't allowed to be the bad guys in a Mesoamerican setting
>Pick one, /pol/
but white people were the good guys? before white people, the indians were literally skinning each other alive and eating each other. the aztecs were an evil imperial slaving cannibal empire. white people killed it. thats a good thing

>> No.55437440

>>55437323
Ixalan could be described in equally grand and generous terms, with cards to represent that as well.

>> No.55437441

>>55437331
>Merfolk
Well the merfolk are an empire and have conquered much of the Sun Empire's territory, including the City of Orazca, they key plot point.

>Tokens.
They still have major synergy with improvise (also in grixis colours) and the other Kaladesh cards which care about artifacts (cards like Herald and Unlicensed Disintegration) you just can't do degenerate shit with them.

>> No.55437443

>>55436764
>artifact set
>not broken

When will they ever learn

>> No.55437458

>>55437440
Alright. I'm waiting.

>> No.55437467

>>55437414
The natives, the vampires and each other.

>> No.55437481

>>55437414
the pirates are outcasts from the main continent ruled by the vampire church. they are stealing from the vampires, the indigenous merfolk tribes, and the sun empire. they are in opposition to the vampires mostly but want to plunder the riches of ixalan as well.

they probably steal from each other too, as there are multiple captains with relative autonomy.

>> No.55437485

>>55437414
Well, it couldn't be the vampires wearing a shitton of gold armor and weapons and hail from a country that can fund a massive invasion to find a rock, could it?

>> No.55437489

>>55437414
WotC went rather soft on the flavor of pirates because they're meant to speak for themselves. They're pirates, they plunder and raid and snatch up any treasure they find.

They're taking revenge on the Legion of Dusk whenever they find them for pushing them out of their homeland, they're pilfering the exotic jade of the merfolk whenever they can track them into their forests and they snatch up the fancy ornaments of the Sun Empire, with all of their amber and colorful feathers. Most importantly though, they're after all of the loot that the golden city holds, like everyone else that goes to the continent of Ixalan.

>> No.55437503

What are the odds this is just a continent on Dominaria?

>> No.55437526
File: 101 KB, 245x245, 1503074272148.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
55437526

>>55437414
They're pirates

>> No.55437530

>>55437489
>WotC went rather soft on the flavor of pirates because they're meant to speak for themselves.

Flavor is literally there so that the cards CAN speak for themselves, without needing people to read a bunch of backstory or try and guess what genre of pirates these are.

Maybe that's why you have so many people complaining that they aren't historically accurate, since Wizards didn't make it clear that these are Treasure Island fantasy pirates rather than actual maritime thieves that rob ships and don't really bury treasure.

>> No.55437531

>>55437323
I hope you know just exactly how comically hypocritical this post is. Like I'm not even certain this isn't a troll at this point. You boiled down Ixalan's interactions between tribes, so I boiled down Lorwyn's. You can't be upset that I did it when you did the exact same damn thing in order to make your own argument. If you genuinely think none of Ixalan's tribes can be described at least as "deep" or "detailed" as >Elves dislike things that are ugly. It happens that most things in that category are non-elves, but cards like Game-trail changeling show that there are some other shapes they find admirable, and Ambassador Oak shows that they ally themselves with Treefolk, even if they do see themselves superior.
From the cards then I think that confirms bait. Why you would go through the effort to type this up for purely bait purposes is baffling though.

>> No.55437552

>>55437414
>>55437530
We see that they steal from everybody based on their treasure tokens, showing booty from each of the different tribes.

>> No.55437581

>>55437531
I boiled down Ixalan's interactions. You said random statements that resembled Lorwyn's tribes, but weren't actually true at all.

But go ahead, prove me wrong. I backed up Lorwyn's flavor with actual cards, and that was just with the ones showing interactions between tribes. Feel free to show off some of Ixalan's cool flavor tidbits of the way the factions interact with the names of some of its cards.

>> No.55437662

>>55437467
>>55437481
>>55437485
>>55437489
Alright, cool. Pirates seem like they need a wealthy state figure to rebel against and I guess the Legion of Dusk isn't present enough in this set to represent it. Any cards actually say the pirates are outcasts from a Legion-controlled continent? I didn't pick up on that at all.
>>55437530
Being more ridiculous may have helped, should have saved Kari Zev's design for Ixilan if they wanted to do that

>> No.55437699

>>55437581
Arcane Adaptation shows pirates using Merfolk treasure to allow themselves to swim under water, Stormfleet Aerialists shows that they based some of their technology on flying dinosaurs, Angrath's Marauders shows them invading a Legion ship, Wily Goblin gives a particular succinct depiction of what exactly treasure tokens are, Ripjaw Raptor shows that dinosaurs are smart enough to deal with vampire armor, Slice in Twain shows a merfolk sabotaging a pirate ship, Arguel's bloodfast shows a vampire discovering an ancient god of the empire...

>> No.55437702

>>55437503
Considering this world seems to have exactly two landmasses with a maximum of two cultures on them each, it would make complete sense if this place we're visiting was one small part of a larger plane. It could be almost anything. Fiora, Kamigawa, fucking Mercadia, pretty much any plane that doesn't have some plane-wide "gimmick" that you have to include, like the aether in the atmosphere of Kaladesh, the great aurora on Lorwyn/Shadowmoor, or the plane-wide faith conduit on Innistrad. The creative team would have an easier off if some of the places we went to were part of the same world as previous places, so they can have the new stuff flesh out the old stuff and have the old stuff influence the new stuff without it feeling repetitive, but instead they're forced to reinvent the wheel every time.

Actually I take it back, I forgot Ixalan had a plane-wide gimmick in the form of the anti-planeswalking sigil. So they could add that to an existing plane that lacked a strong identity (my head goes to Mercadia again for some reason) or they could just make this the starting point for a new plane to set future sets on.

>> No.55437777

>>55437662
>Being more ridiculous may have helped
There are pirates decked out literally in parts of ships and nothing but belts and buckles. These parts are very over the top. The whole treasure and swashbuckling and swinging from ropes and shit thing is all the over the top pirates people are aware of. There is absolutely no question that the pirates are pirates. Even the goblins are like pirate monkeys or something probably just to make it so they would fit in better with pirates.

>> No.55437800

>>55437702
Mark confirmed Ixalan is both the name of the plane and the name of the continent, so there isn't a New Phyrexia/Mirrodin secret plane identity thing going on. Yes, it's weird that the entire plane is named after just one continent on this world.

>> No.55437803
File: 50 KB, 265x370, swashbuckling.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
55437803

>>55437662
A couple. But I guess the fact they aren't Mayans is supposed to give it away.

>> No.55437813

>>55437699
Aside from the first and last one, every example you gave was simply two different factions being depicted in the same artwork while not liking eachother.

If that's what passes as 'depth' for you, I can see I'm wasting my time.

Arguel's Bloodfast is the only thing of substance there, and that's a legendary enchantment showing a named character doing what seems to be a significant story event. And even that raises more questions than answers.

Other than that, what are those cards?

>Pirates steal from everyone else
>Dinosaurs eat people
>Merfolk are good at fighting in water

These are obvious statements. They don't tell you about what those people think of eachother. They tell you what they do to eachother. And when that's just 'rob, eat, kill' depending on who you ask, that's not very compelling.

>> No.55437871

>>55434190

Ugly women, ugly dinosaurs, Jace/Gatewatch/Planeswalker shit, Transforming cards (the worst mechanic), no valuable reprints of older cards.

>> No.55437929

>>55434472

Boring vanilla creatures with pretty pictures.

>> No.55437962

>>55437813
What the fuck, the stipulation was showing the tribes interacting. There's still stuff like Fire Shrine Keeper, Grim Captain's Call, or >>55437803 That's what I pointed out. Don't move the fucking goalposts. The cards also explain why they dislike each other. Lorwyn isn't better because a few of the tribes do more than dislike each other which I can only assume is the distinction, especially if your belief that it matters more why is true.

>> No.55437989

>>55434472

Dinosaurs are literally just worse Treefolk.

>> No.55437996

>>55437962
Oh i just remembered also the set's pacifism variant with a vampire proselytizing a fucking dinosaur.

>> No.55438016

>>55436827
Vampires are the worst offenders.
They set it up to where the vamps are all about gaining life but TWO whole creatures use the life.
Mono-white horse is a better life based deck than this
Token vamps are a bit better but without Westvale abbey, cuttthroat, and catacombs sifter you just vomit your hand then lose if clear it, plus zero evasion/buff mechanics means your tokens just get chumped.
Servos are stronger than them in all regards and don't see play either.

>> No.55438065

>>55438016
I was really surprised at the lack of life payment cards. Stoddard made an article where he said "we were trying to figure out how to make the vampires unique, and we realized life payment would be an interesting use for the lifegain". I only remembered like 2 cards that were unspoiled.

>> No.55438071

>>55437962
>Don't move the fucking goalposts.

The goalposts in entire time has been Lorwyn's lore feeling cohesive with lots of little details while Ixalan's feels shallow and lacking any real interactions.

You showed off some cards of people killing some other people. Now how does that in any way show off Ixalan's factions aside from 'they exist'?

Maybe the reason you can't see a difference is that you're a robot who takes things too literally. I can tell based on the fact that you gave all of those cards as your initial examples rather than >>55437803 which actually offers a reason why one faction hates another aside from both of them being after the golden city. Although now I am curious as to whether any of the cards actually mention the name of the Vampire's continent.

>> No.55438086
File: 236 KB, 1260x862, ThisWholeConversationMadeMeWantToDie.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
55438086

>>55434757

>> No.55438116

>>55438065

Yeah, it's really disappointing. Though I do love the cheap invulnerable vampire.

More of that shit and I'd be all over vampires. Or give some vampire lords (With all the white they have, there is plenty of room for a lord to hand out First Strike or Vigilance or Flying to vampires.)

>> No.55438151

>>55438116
Yeah. It feels like a lot of missed opportunities. They move Vampires into White, but all they do with it is make a couple White cards that pay life. There aren't a bunch of Black cards that pay life to tie into the lifegain/drain subtheme, and they didn't use White's focus on teamwork to actually make some Vampire cards that could work alongside and buff eachother.

Something that would have given Vampires vigilance or creatures with Lifelink First Strike would have been great, and also opens up more interesting interactions with vampires from previous sets who could take advantage of that.

>> No.55438193

>>55438071
Ixalan's lore has plenty of "little details" visible on cards. Your condition was, again, showing interaction on cards. I gave you cards showing you interactions, and all the cards had an interesting detail, that was why I chose them. Aerialist was showing how pirates were inspired by flying dinosaurs, Marauders was showing how some pirates only care to destroy and cause chaos, Wily Goblin again gave a simple and succinct explanation of what treasure was to pirates, Ripjaw Raptor showed the intelligence of the dinosaurs and how they could dismantle the vampire's armor, Slice in Twain I guess is the least so but a lot of the cards in the set list that went unspoiled went into detail about the elemental abilities of the Merfolk, like how they use totems to conjure elementals or how they uses jade because it strengthens their magic.

>> No.55438195

>>55438151

Or steal some old white soldier ideas since vampires are tiny. Have a white killspell that is 'Tap <Some amount> vampires, kill a creature and gain life equal to it's toughness' as they take it down with skilled tactics and feast on it.

>> No.55438221

>>55438193
Also there's a couple little stories told between cards, like there's a black card showing where a pirate stole the Dowsing Dagger from a killed merfolk.

>> No.55438268

>>55437800
I'm not saying that Ixalan being part of another plane is likely. They confirmed that's not how they do things and not how they're going to do things. But I wish it were true. Maybe some day?

>> No.55438269

>>55434190
Black has absolutely nothing beyond another Bob attempt. Its creatures are way below curve, it has a lot of extremely situational sorceries / instants and brings nothing to the table that other colours aren't doing better.

Blue and Green on the other hand have absolutely everything covered. Hell, Red has on curve aggro creatures (only took 25 years) and a good instant speed burn spell - it really doesn't need anything else. White has solid creatures, tricks and removal.

Apparently WotC thinks the combo of Walk the Plank + Vraska's Contempt is "enough" for Black.

>> No.55438272

>>55437423
Human sacrifice kicks ass and you need to stop being such a pussy.

>> No.55438305

>>55438086
Meh. Historical religions WERE pretty shitty.

>> No.55438307

>>55438086
Thanks,now I want to die too.

>> No.55438309

It reminds me of Un'Goro >.>

>> No.55438311

>>55438151

Yeah, white's teamwork theme would have worked fantastically with the disciplined conquistadors in comparison to the unruly dinosaurs or chaotic pirates.

>> No.55438342

>>55438086
>the only redeeming value of religion is to give my sword a target

What the fuck is the whole theme of the entire plane of Innistrad?

>> No.55438364

>>55438342

Everything you love will die or be corrupted?

>> No.55438367

>>55438195
That's exactly the sort of thing I would love to see. It also would have been great if we'd gotten sort of 'planeshifted' versions of mono-black vampires, altering the setup of a previous card to make it fit as a white vampire.

>> No.55438370

>>55438305
Not really, religions were the one centers of intellectual development historically and the source of the vast majority of enlightenment and secular idea ground work. At least Christianity. Only a retard would conflate the economic power games of historical empires with their religious excuses for war. Or to imply that historical imperialism is particularity inhumane or immoral is somewhat of a stupid standpoint to begin with considering such conceptions of human rights weren't even around until the 1800s.

>> No.55438380

>>55438342
Just let em feel victimized. It's easier than arguing.

>> No.55438387

>>55438364
Original Innistrad, before everyone went insane.

>> No.55438408

>>55438193
>Your condition was, again, showing interaction on cards.

And there goes your robotic logic once again.

>> No.55438426

>>55438269
>Black has absolutely nothing beyond another Bob attempt.

The Deathtouch+Menace Orc Wizard seemed neat. Might have to wait until Glorybringer rotates though

>> No.55438441

>>55438387

The original Innistrad was six years ago, Anon.

But the tweeter does mention that he thought the original Innistrad was a flavor home run (this was in response to Tolarian Community College boldly claiming that Ixlan was the best set flavor-wise since Zendikar)

>> No.55438472

>>55437581
>Feel free to show off some of Ixalan's cool flavor tidbits of the way the factions interact with the names of some of its cards
I know you're just a troll, but I can't stop myself from taking the bait sometimes.

>> No.55438518

>>55438367

Plane/Colourshift Bloodbond Vampire and they'd have something to make that Lifelink do something (Outside of just paying)

2WW - Bloodsworn Conquistador - Vampire Soldier 3/3 - Whenever you gain life, put a +1/+1 counter on ~

Plane/Colourshift Bloodline Necromancer and they'd not run out of gas so fast.

4W - Acolyte of Eternal Life - Vampire Cleric - 3/2 - Lifelink, When ~ enters the battlefield, you may return target Vampire or Human creature card from your graveyard to the battlefield.

There is a lot of good options, those were just the first that jumped to mind.

>> No.55438595

>>55438367
To be fair they kinda did stuff like this. Bishop of Rebirth feels like a card where they wanted to make a splashy white vampire that felt kind of "black".

>> No.55438627

>>55438367

A functional reprint of Drana, Liberator of Malakir would have been nice since they want you to horde 1/1 vampires at the other guy.

>> No.55438655

>>55438595
The vampire part of it makes Bishop feel more black but at the end of the day it's still an improved Custodi Soulcaller.

>> No.55438720

>>55438655
Well of course it had to be a version of the effect mono white could do. But I'm still certain it was meant to kind of "feel" black.

>> No.55438857

>>55438518
I just hope next set vamps are stronger so mono red has a counter part.
I guess for now I'll just build hapatra or Mono-White since everyone at my FNM runs ranumap.

>> No.55439034
File: 243 KB, 396x554, Ancient Warp Gates.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
55439034

Doing a pre-release gen and all I see are 1/1's for 1 color everywhere. It looks like pre-release is gonna be way boring....especially since rares can be just lands again.

>> No.55439340
File: 37 KB, 265x370, mtg-spindown-life-counter-black.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
55439340

Okay the spindown looks pretty neat.

>> No.55439528

>>55435694
>Rivals of Ixalan will secretly be all about trilobite tribal

>> No.55439671

>>55436106
So... no one gonna point out how Lorwyn did in fact have an overarching story following the pilgrimage of Ashling that is pretty much completely not alluded to in the cards at all?

>> No.55439676

>>55439340
>black and gold
nice. would be better if the black is a transparent dtk one.

>> No.55439836
File: 46 KB, 750x573, 1500976349455.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
55439836

>>55436796
>Dinosaur tribal
Requires humans to ramp staple cards out

>> No.55439849

>>55439836
It's going to be shitty just like dragon tribal in khans

Too slow to keep up

>> No.55439862

>>55439340
The skull doesn't make sense being "20" it looks more like you DON'T want to see it because it means you're dead.

>> No.55439879

>>55439836
You know, they could have just made them baby dinos and it would have made sense. But no

>> No.55439889

>>55434190
Vraska being a pirate is stupid. Jace being around is stupid. Anons finally sold me on the Vamps and Aztecs not being stupid but I still think Pirates deserved their own set and aren't the best fit here. Too many plot foci overall. Also the Vamps being 'grey villains' is tired as fuck. WotC's lore is just garbage anymore; the cards are only good for playing and for the art.

>> No.55440015

>>55439879
>dino tribe
Yes!
>that uses humans
n-no

>> No.55440022

>>55440015
Viashino would have been cooler, I agree.

>> No.55440048
File: 677 KB, 955x877, meme.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
55440048

ANYONE WHO PLAYS VAMPIRES IS A SHITLORD

>> No.55440228
File: 211 KB, 1468x364, which_is_your_poison.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
55440228

where are the ninjas ?

>> No.55440682

>>55437019
I just need an ensnaring bridge reprint.

>> No.55440794

>>55440228
You in NC?

>> No.55440882

>>55436400
How is historical fact controversial?

>> No.55440962

>>55434811
>Show me where on the doll the shadows of SJWs are demonizing them because right now they are the most badass faction on Ixalan.
On Magic The Garthering's facebook page, thankfully most of those posts (unsurprisingly made by well-off white nu-males from west-coast america) have been shot the fuck down by actual mexicans.

>> No.55440977

>>55440882
Obviously the historical fact isnt the part that could be percieved as controversial, you idiot.

>> No.55441069

>>55440962
Screen shots for those of us who don't have Facebook? I want to see the SJWs being BTFO by the minorities they claim to love so much.

>> No.55441152

>>55440882
Anon did you fail 8th grade English.

>> No.55441262

>New set
>What went wrong thread because it's le epic to not like things
Like pottery

>> No.55441341

>>55436400
Aztecs won every battle they fought to the death. There was more people in Tenochtitlan than in the entirety of Europe at the time. Almost every aztec soldier was a head+ taller than the average spaniard soldier and ripped as fuck. They also wore cloth armor that was as good as plate at stopping bullets to the point Cortez's troops starting wearing that instead of their armor.

Technology wasn't the reason Spain won, Cortez being a fucking genius, aztecs being hated by every single other nation in meso-america and smallpox were the collective reason why Spain won.

Mexicans are generally less bleeding heart about the Conquista than americans are about the pilgrimage and gold rush, because aztecs actually stood a chance and were very close to winning.

>> No.55441347

>>55435921
Enchantment involving people acting with the queen's authority, perhaps.
So you get a card with art of people bowing before the Queen (and thus, a depiction of the Queen), but it's not a creature card.

>> No.55441361

>>55441341
i hope you are jocking

>> No.55441363

>>55438151
>There aren't a bunch of Black cards that pay life to tie into the lifegain/drain subtheme
I just went through the set, there's 3 white creatures where you can pay life and 1 black enchantment. Not a whole lot.

Though the raid-bob looks like it would be good on a vampire deck

>> No.55441392

>>55441361
Some of the stuff seems dubious, but Tenochtitlan had a giant amount of people in it at the time, and there were waaay more aztecs than Spaniards. Disease, neighbors, and religion were the big reasons the aztecs lost

>> No.55441437

>>55438086
Catholics thought witches were bullshit and actually called "witch-hunters" heretics.

>> No.55441478

>>55438086
They would have tortured her because shes a dumb bitch

>> No.55441485

>>55441437
Initially, yes, but it got to a point where the fear was so widespread they decided that it's better to just go with the flow if it keeps the peasants happy

>> No.55441505

>>55441485
actually witch hunts were a protestant thing.

>> No.55441525

>>55437331
Making them Treasures instead of Gold does have a benefit - it lets all those cards that benefit from them (when you sacrifice a Treasure, sacrifice 3 Treasures, if you have 8 Treasures, etc) actually be worded that way, instead of the incredibly clunky 'whenever you sacrifice a permanent named Gold', 'sacrifice three permanents named Gold', etc.
Gold doesn't have a subtype, and giving it one would break the very compatibility you're looking for. Treasure DOES have a subtype, and can thus be referred to as just Treasure instead of 'a permanent named Treasure/Gold'
They almost certainly would've gone with a new token even if Improvise wasn't in the environment. It being there just lead to the decision faster, and made them tap. There are quite a few people who seem to believe that, had it not been for the tap, you'd be able to tap and sac for improvise. People are dumb. Obviously you can't, but making it clear means less constant judge calls for the entire year the two mechanics are together.
And yes, you'd have to state permanent named X each time, because of things like copying cards and things that fuck with types.

>> No.55441528

>>55441505
Mostly yeah, but I'm pretty sure the Catholics did some too.

>> No.55441564

>>55439671
Or about how Oona killed Oona to become Oona, because Oona had previously killed Oona before Oona was Oona?

>> No.55441568

>>55441528
nah, the main reason the church had a thight grip was to repress those kinds of irrationnal behaviors, most witch hunts happened in primarely protestant countries during the 16-17th century.

>> No.55441597

>>55441528
They didn't.
In fact you were less likely to be killed in a whim by the spanish inquisition than by civic courts unless you were a stereotipically miserly and unapologetically goy-hating jew.

Burning witches was a protestant and orthodox thing, and an irreligious thing in general. More people were burnt for forgery, bestiality, sodomy and arson than for "witchcraft". 13th-15th century europeans apparently just hated to dig graves very fucking much.

>> No.55441605

>>55441568
Ah. So I guess Luther really did ruin everything forever

>> No.55441622

>>55441597
Modern people dislike digging graves. Digging is a fucking pain man

>> No.55441628

>>55441605
not really since the state in those countries outlawed those practices pretty quickly

>> No.55441691
File: 507 KB, 664x1001, cauldron_by_regourso-d9ltxp1.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
55441691

>>55441437
>>55441478
>>55441505
>>55441528
>>55441597
>>55441597
>>55441605


Christ, /tg/ is bad at history. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malleus_Maleficarum
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Witch_trials_in_the_early_modern_period

COME ON. Don't just make shit up if you don't know. Do your research! Don't just guess. And whatever you do, don't assume /tg/ knows what it's talking about because it NEVER DOES.

>> No.55441897

>>55441152
What was wrong with my post?
>>55440977
Then why would that historical fact being represented in a fictional setting based on said fact be controversial?

>> No.55442099

>still 6 days
i want to crack packs dammit. i've been clicking on sealed generator for an hour.

>> No.55442190

>>55442099

My first simulated seal pool was perfect for Naya Dinosaurs. I think this is a good sign.

>> No.55442250

>not enough vampires
>minotaur planeswalker in part 2
>tribal hard to play in standard since you have only 1 set to work with

>> No.55442284
File: 139 KB, 1061x225, Untitled.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
55442284

juuuudge, why is my promo a common?

>> No.55442341

>>55435004
>just noticed the guy falling off the dinosaur

>> No.55442362

>>55438342
The point was that these dumb humans were worshiping angels that are just the creations of vampires. How foolish that these humans would put their faith is a creature presented as universally good. *tips fedora*

Zendikar was "lol your god was a tentacle monster, religion is dumb."

This time it's bad not just because Religious vampires (again.) but because they literally just made them Spanish conquistadors. It's lazy and uninspired.

>> No.55442477

>>55438086
Its funny, out of 120000 trials less than 100 ended in death for the alleged witch, Spanish Inquisition was probably one of the fairest courts in the time. They fucking had the innocent till proven guilty. But this people prefer to believe movies

>> No.55442510

>>55442477
I'm pretty sure she'd be one of the ones that gets punished though, since she flat out admitted it

>> No.55442520

>>55436142
I think we're working under very different definitions of the word awesome.

>> No.55442544

>>55442520
>t. Heretic

>> No.55442579

>>55436059
>an empire in exactly zero of the classic definitions.
The classic definition would be the "ruler of Rome" or "the ruler of Rome's successor state" which many of the countries that have claimed or been given the title failed to actually live up to.

>> No.55443291

So how will U/R or U/B control decks deal with mono red aggro?
They didn't print any new hate cards against that deck in those colors and with Grasp of Darkness leaving Hazoreth becomes even stronger.

>> No.55443355

>>55443291
Siren Stormtamer?

:^)

>> No.55443501
File: 140 KB, 1064x222, Untitled.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
55443501

This is your sealed opponent :^)

>> No.55443847

>>55443501
>triple R
>double W
>RGW
>no mana fixing

gg ez

>> No.55444083

>>55436617
The first thing Ivread is flavor text, is this autism?

>> No.55444155

>>55436387
The Angels of Amonkhet where all male. Also female angles are a classic fantasy trope.

>> No.55444169

>>55436387
Let's have a look.
>>55435096
>>55435072
>>55435029
>>55435004
Such masculinity, wow. Those aren't even the only female vampires of Ixalan.

>> No.55444328

>>55444155
The most important book, The Book of Mormon, doesn't have female angels.

>> No.55444619

>>55438272
You need to be over 18 to post here.

>> No.55444683

>>55434823

I think this is the big issue. I don't see anything bar 2 cards that are eternal format playable. It just sets up people to have a bad time come rotation to find out those cards are extra worthless.

>> No.55444787

>>55443501
>draft all red
>win just like in normal standard because mono red will still be top tier

>> No.55444806

>>55435004

I do really love that vanguard. The art is great and so is the mechanics. I just really wish vampires got more shit like that.

>> No.55445597
File: 138 KB, 350x350, Naamloos-2.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
55445597

>>55435029
More like Bishie of Rebirth.

>> No.55445757

>>55435654
I REMEMBER WHEN /tg/ BITCHED THAT FLIP JACE WAS A WORSE MERFOLK FUCKING LOOTER.

>> No.55445826

>>55434694

He thinks pirates didn't spend most of their time on land.

laughingbitches.jpg

>> No.55445854

>>55445757
I believe he was called second worst of the cycle even.
Chandra was always dead last, Gideon was thought to be THE BEST with iirc Liliana #2 and Nissa in the middle.

>> No.55445859

>>55434190
The only thing that went wrong with the set is that they put enough fuel on the race politics fire to grant us another cycle of bitching on /tg/.

>> No.55446042
File: 9 KB, 262x206, 1479186635001.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
55446042

No cards that are relevant outside of limited

>> No.55446046
File: 141 KB, 1062x220, Untitled.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
55446046

This is the guy sitting beside you's sealed pack. :^)

>> No.55446058
File: 140 KB, 1068x220, Untitled.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
55446058

>>55446046
This is the guy sitting on the other side's pack. :^)

>> No.55446169
File: 135 KB, 1060x214, Untitled.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
55446169

>>55446058
This is yours. :^)

>> No.55446215
File: 126 KB, 488x680, ori-83-whirler-rogue.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
55446215

To better illustrate why all of the Treasure producing cards are overcosted, compare any of them to Whirler Rogue.

Whirler Rogue produces 4/4 combinted P/T for 4 CMC. Thopters don't produce mana, but they can attack, block, be the target of effects, etc. Also, it has a built in mana cost free activated ability.

Now take a look at any of the Treasure cards and weep. Whirler Rogue isn't even from that far in Standard's past.

This isn't a corner case, either. Thopter Engineer has a useful body on top of producing the token and also has a secondary effect (giving artifact creatures haste) - also for no mana cost.

Treasure cards are a joke.

>> No.55446311

>>55446215

But anon if we had fast mana that would break standard :^)

Fucking Christ I hate what this game has become. I still remember when we had ANCIENT TOMB in standard.

>> No.55446507

too many kangs, not enough waifus

>> No.55446868

Ya'll know they always play it safe in the first set and then get cute in the second set.

>> No.55447949
File: 59 KB, 256x256, thinking-face.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
55447949

>>55434190
>>55434190
>>55434190
>>55434190
>>55434190
>Play Overwatch® Free September 22–25
>Ixalan prerelease happens the same weekend

Was this done on purpose...?

>> No.55447973

>>55447949
Always, what other reason is to have a free weekend?

>> No.55449083
File: 41 KB, 374x374, 1495851148361.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
55449083

Why are all of these new MTG sets so awful? What purpose is there in buying these new cards if the ones played in Legacy are simply better, more powerful cards? Why can't they just print cards that blow those legacy staples out of the water, or simply put some worthwhile reprints into these sets? This does not make any sense. Why would anyone want to pay money for cards that are objectively worse than what's been out forever?

>> No.55449702

>>55449083
I wonder why they just dont reprint BlackLotus.
Maybe will appear in Unstable.

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