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55338293 No.55338293 [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

Lets talk and answer any questions about character builds or future campaign ideas.

Stories about past campaigns, awesome character moments or That Guy moments are welcomed.

Also who is the best clan?

>> No.55338786

Sure! Thinking about running a campaign set in the imperial capital, Otosan Uchi. Eager to hear anyones campaign stories or ideas for Otosan uchi shenanigans.
As for best clan? Every great clan is the best one when you are playing them. Out of the minor clans, I will say I am partial to the Wasp.

>> No.55338795

How should I go about making a Yasuki pirate?

So far I decided on skipping the Yasuki Courtier school in favor of either the Hiruma Bushi or the Hida Pragmatist school in order to pick up the Crab Knife-Fighter path as lore says the Yasuki and Crab sailors favor this type of fighting style.

Which school would favor a Yasuki or a pirate theme character more?

Would my pirate benefit from the Hida Pragmatist school and it's focus on unarmed and improvised weapon if he uses his free hand to strike opponents or is having a tanto impossible? Would his free-hand be considered unarmed or the tanto an improvised weapon?

Would the Hiruma Bushi school be the better option?

The Hiruma Slayer path sounds Viking-ish and a good option or would a more archer build benefit from the Yasuki's +1 Awareness and the Hiruma Sniper and Falcon Strike paths?

>> No.55338910

Silly crab san, yasuki lack the courage to be pirates, they are smugglers.
On a more serious note, none of the 4e crab schools seem a perfect match. So why not just make a straight up Hida bushi, a towering monstrosity in armor whose skill at sea (pardon the pun) comes from investing skills in sailing and other relevant skills. He would basicly be Victarion Greyjoy.
If you want to make him a proper pirate, have him end up ronin and through that way join up a kobune crew and rise through the ranks.

There are some marine alternate paths for some other clans you might want to check out.

>> No.55339265

Thanks anon!

A Hida PC seems like a good option as Hida Sadaharu was a sailor himself. Though I'm hesitant about making a bushi that relies on heavy armor, as it might act more of an anchor for him to drown rather than serve as protection.

Hey now! Two of L5R's (in)famous pirates were both Yasuki, Kojiro and Fumoki.

Fumoki's character sheet says he was 3 ranks in Hiruma Bushi. Although Fumoki didn't specialize in archery compared to his 3 in Kyujutsu to his 5 in Kenjutsu and Knives.

Where can I find the marine alternate paths of the other clans?

>> No.55339352

>Though I'm hesitant about making a bushi that relies on heavy armor, as it might act more of an anchor for him to drown rather than serve as protection.
Sort of the idea, he's just that crazy/at ease at sea. Especially if he has the blessing of the fortune of the Sea, Suitengu. Might have been the only survivor of a shipwreck and felt appropriately singled out/blessed by that. Though I get the mechanical fear of drowning, fair enough. There were a lot of mariner paths in Imperial Histories 2, in the shattered empire chapter. Doji marines, isawa seaguard, Kaiu seamaster.

>> No.55339967

I like the idea of the Crab being a ronin and picking up the Black Sheep Disadvantage. Never played a ronin before so any tips are welcomed.

The fear of drowning and maybe the ability to not be able to swim reminds me of One Piece and the Devil Fruit Curse, so that's cool.

>> No.55340446

Remember, Families have easy access to all of their clan's schools. Most Yasuki bushi are actually trained in the Hida School. Yasuki sailors are probably Hiruma trained most of the time, since the Hiruma and the Kaiu deal with sailing the most (To keep their bay clear and man their turtle ships).

>> No.55340616

>Hiruma and the Kaiu deal with sailing the most
Does that say in any of the L5R books?

Other than the Knife-Fighter, is there any other paths a Yasuki sailor should take?

>> No.55340774
File: 243 KB, 800x589, 53008822-lowres_800.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]


I think the Yasuki Courtier is pretty pirate-y. Not in a sea-born warrior way, but in a charming scoundrel way. Just boost Kenjutsu for swashbuckling and Sailing for ship-stuff, and you are good to go.

>> No.55340992

The Kaiu are the shipbuilders of the clan, and have an entire vassal family dedicated solely to ships and naval engineering. The entrance into the bay has an artificial reef that only select Hiruma pilots know how to navigate. You either wait for the crab to send a pilot out to guide your ship in (Along with his two bodyguards who are ordered to kill him as soon as any funny business happens so that the secrets of navigating the bay don't fall out of Crab hands) or break yourself against the reef.

>> No.55342875

Thanks for the lore!

Where is that pic from?! It's sweet!!!

Might have to look up Yasuki Courtier again.

Though I do like the idea of using a Parangu instead as it is more of a cutlass than the katana. Gonna get hit with honor loss due to using a peasant weapon.

Book of Water does say that there are Crab peasant weapon Sensei but doesn't specify which types of peasant weapons, would sai or tonfa work? Is the sai even peasant weapon? Book of water says yes but nothing on the core book.

Also I don't think the sai works with the Crab Knife-Fighter

>> No.55343454

Crab best clan
Clubman best bushi
Rkcejew best courtier
Ghostbuster best shugenja

>> No.55343495

Whipped up a blind Scorpion diplomat once that was a judge.... never actually got to play it since the group fell apart before even starting, but it seemed like I was setting myself up for a jolly good (everything was probably going to try to hate-fuck my skull) time.

>> No.55346093

I don't know much about L5R geography/lore. Besides in cities or, what are other settings players could play in?

>> No.55346482

Hida tech actually removes Heavy Armour penalties to everything except Stealth, so you would be able to swim in it no problem. You're just that tough.

>> No.55346771

Scorpion are always fun, especially if you are the only one in your party. Doubly so if they are good roleplayers.

>> No.55349103

How do I do a good Sword/Fan Akodo Bushi build?

>> No.55349507


The scimitar is the best for a cutlass.

>> No.55350057

I'll be running a solo prologue session, the player is a Seppun who will be graduating to become a guardsman. Because the Seppun guardsman school is kinda crap, he will be using the iron warrior school. My plan is for the session to be his gempukku ceremony, where he is essentially tasked with keeping a courtier alive and safe for a night. It will basicly be a scenario with "actors", who will test his diligence, perception and so on, all the appropriate skills. The charge will be in on it, acting delibaretely difficult. Looking for ideas on things that can happen to test proper seppun values. things i got so far
>Someone will be tailing them, roll to detect, roll to attempt to lose them in the streets. Bonus points for doing it in a non panicked manner, can't make the courtier look bad after all
>Protect courtier as he visits a tea house full of unscrupulous types. Maybe some "shady" types appear threatening
>Something where the Seppun has to protect his charge from his own behavior. Perhaps try to maneuever them from drinking too much without making it seem as if he's treating him as a child or overstepping his bounds, can't have the charge lose face
>Something where the Seppun will have to choose between saving the charges life by stepping before a blade (obviously dulled/enchanted not to cut blood, but he wouldn't know that) or putting his own skin first. Obviously a major dealbreaker
>A genuine attack happens at some point to derail things

>> No.55350301

Someone tries to serve the charge something "poisoned", the Seppun is supposed to notice their suspicious behaviour and subtly indicate for the charge to refuse.

>> No.55352031

Courtier takes the Seppun to a geshia house, where after a crazy night of partying, the courtier is abducted by the owners. The Seppun who stayed outside be didn't partake in the party must either follow the clues to the Seppun being held and must perform a questionable favor for the courtier's release.

Of course the shady owners and the courtier's are all actors and in on it. The test is to see if the Seppun is loyal and dutiful in return the courtier and his/her safety and see how far the Seppun is willing to risk or in danger his honor for his job.

It's pretty much L5R's Hangover

>> No.55352079

Isn't a scimitar more of a saber rather than a cutlass?

>> No.55352144

You don't need the crab knife fighter perk to be good with a knife anon (it helps!). Pick up Yasuki courtier and just buff your knife skill.

Ya might want to check out using a sai or jitte, rank 5 in knives will allow for free disarm. That'll come in handy when fighting bushi.

>> No.55352333

Yeah, it's always important to keep in mind that you do not need a relevant technique to do a thing. Stats and skills are more important, relevant techniques just give you an edge. Well, except for SAA. Those are proper gamechangers.

>> No.55352369

SAA? What's that anon?

>> No.55352569

Simple action attack. Every bushi gets it at rank 3 or 4. It's huge, because it opens the action economy. With SAA, you can draw your sword, use a kata, and swing in one turn. You can swing twice in every subsequent turn. In just three rounds, you can do more than other fighters can do in six or seven.

>> No.55352698

Ooooh that's cool but I don't think any of the crab paths offers the Yasuki courtier anything like that. Is is possible to take the multiple school advantage and have a few levels of a crab bushi school and Yasuki courtier school?

>> No.55352852

It's possible, but you have to start from rank 1 in your second school, you can't go back until you complete your new school, and there's a lot of social baggage. They don't offer multiple schools often or easily, and the sensei have to agree too. It's also a high-ranked option that the campaign might never reach.

>> No.55353138

Thanks guys. Can't promise i'll go down the hangover route precisely, but it's in the right direction. I'll get back with more after the session is done.

>> No.55353148

You don't need Crab Knife Fighter to be adept at landing a blow, but knives almost universally have a really poor DR, which the tech helps a lot with.

>> No.55354874

I was actually thinking of doing this with a Mantis. Start with Yoritomo Courtier and change over to Yoritomo Bushi after getting a level or two with the courtier school. Is the build worth it /tg/uys?

Also...Mantis is best clan and the Yoritomo best family. What other family can offer all 3 school paths; courtier, shugenja and bushi?

>> No.55356576


You might want to check out the Tortoise Clan anon. Their smuggler class is courtier-ish but there is two paths that can make it bushi class.

They're a minor clan but they're the best clan. Why? Cause you take a honor loss each time you badmouth them.

>> No.55358716
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Thank you Crain-San library and editor anons and crab anon.

>> No.55358888

Your post has some missing words and incorrect conjunctions in few places that make it hard to figure out what you are saying.

Did you copy paste the description from notes you have or did you type it up for the post?

>> No.55359035


How do Otomo marriages to non Otomo work?

They have to avoid inbreeding somehow, but i have a hard time figuring out how a marriage between an Otomo and a non-Otomo would work.

Does the clan or family of the outsider get anything for it or is it a sub-optimal marriage that they swallow the loss of so as to avoid the Otomo taking revenge later for being refused?

>> No.55359116
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Badger Clan best clan.

>> No.55359249

First of all, every "Family" is composed of multiple bloodlines, and there are people whose job it is to keep track of consanguinity and arrange marriages such that you can be wed to another member of your Family without it being an inbreeding problem, External marriages are most often for political reasons, rather than eugenic ones.

Second, the Otomo are an Imperial family, with all of the privilege and prestige that entails. Even forgetting any kind of dowry or the like, marrying your kid to an Imperial is a huge boost in glory and political capital in and of itself. Then there's the fact that people are supposed to shift their loyalty from their old Family to their new, but that doesn't mean they cut off all connections with their parents, siblings, or friends. So long as you maintain good relations with your children and try to be nice to your new in-laws, you have an inside track with some Imperials now, typically without even leaving the bounds of propriety or honour.

>> No.55359250

I have a question about L5R 1e. The Way of the Dragon introduces Ise Zumi who must be from the Togashi "family", but in the Core Book Togashi are a Dragon family who can be a bushi or a shugenja. So my question is are there members of the Togashi family who train at the Mirumoto, Agasha, and Kitsuki schools? And if so would these people be tattooed?

>> No.55359252

Well, they can marry the Seppun and Miya, and they gain every Hantei who isn't the direct heir. Keep in mind that Families are not all related to each other. The only Otomo related to Otomo himself is the ruling line. The rest are descended from his followers.

>> No.55359270

Well, they do adopt, so maybe a monk adopts some kid who just isn't cut out (or destined) to be an Ise Zumi. Still raised by and with the Togashi "family", but not a monk. I don't think it's ever really explained, like most things related to the Togashi.

>> No.55359376

That makes sense thanks. I don't expect any of my players to be a Togashi and not a monk, but I wanted a good explanation for why they could or couldn't.

>> No.55359381

Well, the only direct line is the ruling line. It's not unheard of to marry within a Family, so it's likely that other lines do carry a small degree of the Family founder's blood, just very diluted and passed down through the non-inheriting gender of the family in one way or another.

>> No.55359507

My pleasure

It was the first proper storytime I read, and the kinda participated in, leading to considering I might have a knack for writing, albeit very much lacking in practice

Speaking of, the campaign finished in the meantime. Gonna go sleep for now, but could write up the rest if anyone is interested tomorrow (if the thread is still alive, of course)

>> No.55359652

Yodotai stronk!

Rokugan is next!

>> No.55359712
File: 264 KB, 1632x1280, Shosuro Soba.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

My favorite story from when I got to play rather than DM.

>> No.55361942

>Speaking of, the campaign finished in the meantime. Gonna go sleep for now, but could write up the rest if anyone is interested tomorrow (if the thread is still alive, of course)

yes. and be of linking the previosly posted parts too.

>> No.55362005

what are good clans for first time playing l5r?

also what are good ideas to play if you are not wanting to play a social character?

>> No.55362246


good job being quite scorpion

>> No.55362303

huh. i thoguht the otomo were very limited in scale due to their family being based out of a grand but singular place since they don't own land and protect it with castles or town under their own name

>> No.55362402

Good middle of the night (for me)! Hope you don't mind, but I'm going to repost something from before the last thread died:
Hey there my fellow Rokugani, feel like helping an eta out? I got sucked into L5R by a friend who ran a short game before they moved for work, and now I'm bereft and crave more of the good stuff.
So I realized it's up to me to do the same to some others. I plan to run an introductory game with all pre-genned characters (a bit of a risk, but far faster and easier than if I make them build their own) which has duels, a kidnapped samurai-ko, and a ronin who attempts to commit seppuku in the Crane's Summer Court.
They sound enthused but as a group we're unsure how to keep the courtly stuff quite so engaging. They also would prefer if I could convert the game to Barbarians of Lemuria, which we've played off-and-on for years, but that's a totally different basket.

All of that is to ask these couple of things: What would you guys recommend as any sort of media that has some good inspiration for L5R's political/courtly side; do you think that converting the game to another system would really detract from the experience; and also how would I go about having the onna-bugeisha not just off herself when she either frees herself or is freed? Or should I let that be part of the samurai tragedy of L5R?

I did get one response, which was quite helpful

Anyway, I would just like some more assistance, suggestions, and even warnings or whatever else, if you don't mind.

>> No.55362419

so is auscultation a thing in rokugani medicine?

>> No.55362426

Are the kidnapped samurai-ko and the ronin the same person?

>> No.55362470

what clan are you most likely to encounter members of far and wide in the empire? not as in invaders, just samurai being there.

>> No.55362499

There's a Doji at any court that can even slightly aspire to the name, so if you run in court circles, probably Crane.

>> No.55363724

>that latest fiction
Warms my heart to see the City of Lies NPCs showing up again. I liked how the Scorpion agent took one look at Jotomon (er, Shomon now) and went "yeaaaaah seducing ain't gonna work."

>> No.55363745

Now I wonder if Magda is still canon, however.

>> No.55364098
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What the hell is Chiaotzu?

>> No.55365448

That is the most honorable Scorpion story I have heard.

Going through with what he said until the very end, all for the good of the empire.

>> No.55365904

I'll do you one better: the greentext, from its somewhat very cringey start as a copy of Ishigaki's writing style to my starting to write actually properly. It's not nearly as long as Ishigaki's story, and definitely not as good, but I had fun writing it, and people seemed to enjoy it

If you want the threads themselves, look up Stonewall in any of the archives, first post was always a link back to the previous thread until the first proper one

For first time? Any great clan, really

If you don't wanna go social, standard would be a Hida bushi, though it could probably be said of most bushi schools except the more duelist orientated ones

Not L5R, first of all, but as far as I know, based on Jiangshi, chinese-type vampires
Probably won't find one in Rokugan

I'll do a quick recap for those that currently don't have time to read through this .pdf in the next post, then write the continuation of the campaign in plaintext

>> No.55365931
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What are the chances of a Tsuruchi Bushi who's been ronin-d at insight rank 3 to survive and complete the Twenty Goblin Winters challenge to become a Crab?

>> No.55366104


Prologue: Daikakita Tatsuya, Daidoji Taichi and Doji Jiaying (later taking on the name Togashi Jiaying due to her school training) participate in the Topaz Tournament of year 1200 of the Old5R timeline. Tatsuya makes a rival in an imperial: Otomo Setsuko. Tatsuya comes second place, losing in the iaijutsu tournament to Daigotsu Hotoke.

Act 1: Since they're already in Tsuma, the party is summoned to Kakita Ikura's court, the daimyo of the Kakita family and Tatsuya's direct liege. Ikura proclaims Tatsuya as Clan Magistrate and Main Character of the story. They investigate a recent drug called Sweet Dreams, prolonged use puts people in a magical coma. They find the stash in Tsuma, thanks to a secret Scorpion torturing aid trace it back to Second City, are deputized Emerald Magistrates, and board a Mantis ship to the Colonies.

Act 2: The party investigate the lead in Second City, only to find that they need to head into the jungle to find the guy creating the drug. They get a tour guide in the form of Imperial Explorer and Topaz Champion Daigotsu Hotoke. While Tatsuya at first consider him a rival, he comes to realize he is surprisingly honorable for a Spider. They meet Hotoke's betrothed, Kitsune Yoshioka, and the 4th party member, Tsuruchi Yoshimitsu. Eventually, they find their lead, raised as a zombie by a Chuda maho-tsukai, killed by Tatsuya's blade and his own blood magic, trying to suicide bomb the party, almost killing Tatsuya in the process.

Interlude: The party returns to Tsuma, go and rescue the kidnapped betrothed of Tatsuya, Isawa Kitao, who's been put into a magical sleep as well (reminds me, gotta ask GM if it's connected to Sweet Dreams or a coincidence), then get gifts from Ikura: Taichi is to train to become a captain in the recently established Imperial Fleet, Yoshimitsu gets his training as Ivory Magistrate fast-tracked, Jiaying starts training as a Jade Magistrate, and Tatsuya gets sent to the Ruby Dojo to become an Emerald Magistrate

>> No.55366276


Act 3: The party are invited to THE Summer Court in Second City due to their heroics, part of their tale slowly starting to spread across the Empire and the Colonies. Fortunately, none of the party are in clans opposing each other. Unfortunately, Tatsuya is the only one properly prepared for how to act in court, and everybody wants to try and use the party as pawns, from governor Suikihime, to their own clans, to Otomo Setsuko, making his return from the prologue.

Courtly samurai shenanigans are had over 3 days, including Jiaying getting private sessions with a certain M'rika and Kuchika, Taichi getting himself endebted to a Moto Death Priest, and betrothed to a Spider on account of his lechery and her big titties, and Tatsuya properly shining in court: He defuses a tense situation between the Unicorn and the Phoenix over the recent in-setting scandal regarding the Moto Curse, gets his betrothal to Isawa Kitao annulled, tries to convince Yoshimitsu to marry a Crane.

This comes to an end on day 4, where, while Tatsuya's having a tense verbal spar with Otomo Setsuko, somebody attempts to assassinate the rest of the party. Tatsuya investigates, discovers someone is trying to frame the Otomo, but just to be safe states openly that they are the prime suspects.

Day 5 morning comes, Setsuko insults Tatsuya and the Crane Clan, Tatsuya becomes brash and slaps him in front of the entire Grand Courtroom of Second City Palace. A duel is to be had at midnight to end the Summer Court and deal with this problem: Tatsuya demands it be to the death. Then dies, because the Bayushi-trained Seppun acting as Setsuko's yojimbo was just about good enough to beat a Kakita duelist. Jiaying prays for his soul, Yoshimitsu decides to marry a Crane in honor of Tatsuya's memory, and Taichi swears vengeance before burning down the geisha house of a woman he got pregnant in Act 2 and planting evidence pointing to Setsuko.

I roll my next character, and Act 4 starts...

>> No.55366542


After the end of Summer Court, Daigotsu Hotoke and Kitsune Yoshioka marry, with their once-companions invited as well. One of the more eye-catching guests is an old monk of Kaimetsu-uo, who had a hand in Hotoke's education during his own travels through the Empire. The ceremony is small in comparison to the grandeur of Summer Court, but even here the slightly tattered, brown travelling robes of the monk look distinctly out of place. The one mostly drawn to him is Togashi Jiaying, and the first of many theological and philosophical discussions between the two is had, the younger strongly in touch with the element of Fire, the older preaching of harmonious balance between the Elements.

Yoshimitsu does however recognize the monk: a former Matsu gunso that during a foolish charge lost almost all of the samurai he was commanding, including his own son. The shame of losing his only child forced him to retire, and not much had been heard of him since.

Eventually, of course, the group has to return to their respective duties back in the mainland, where the monk Kaito is also heading, not yet finished with his spiritual journey. The ship they travel back on is conscripted as one of the escorts to the ship carrying the Imperial Heir himself, Iweko Seiken. Taichi carries with him the daisho of Daikakita Tatsuya, to bring it home along with the body, that he may receive his last rites at home. The body itself is on a separate ship, being watched over by the Death Priest Taichi is currently endebted to.

Partway through the travel, Kaito, as had become his habit, attempts to peer into the future with his kawaru coins, and sees a great amount of sorrow ahead in this travel. He tries to warn the captain of the ship carrying Seiken, but that captain cares not: it was Yoritomo Hiromi, the Mantis Clan Champion. He needed to show himself and his clan of value to Seiken, having supported Shibatsu before, even if it meant the death of many of his men.

>> No.55366635
File: 111 KB, 900x634, tsuruchi-akira-alberto-tavira.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]


If you have good Perception and Hunting then you pretty much auto-pass it. Just don't be a retard.

>> No.55366681

4 perception and 2 hunting... would that be good enough?

I also have 4 void and I can defend myself with jiujutsu if the little shits manage to outmaneuvre my 4 water movement.

>> No.55366710


More than enough. If I was your GM, I wouldn't even bother to story the event. You are simply overqualified for the competition, the only way you can have any difficulties is if you actively try to make your task harder.

>> No.55366786

I have a certain disadvantage that might actually hinder me while I'm in the shadowlands...

>> No.55366868

Anyone going into the shadowlands can have difficulty. Even if you can kill a goblin blindfolded with one hand, you rarely encounter one goblin at a time and often encounter things much more dangerous than goblins. You could wander into terrain that is lethal. You could stumble upon an ogre or two. You could be hunted in turn by a Lost or Oni. You could find an entire tribe of goblins complete with a shaman and warlord who are both capable of tactics and dangerous tricks.
Unless it's part of your backstory, 20 goblin winter's should always be played out, because there is no such thing as a safe trip into the shadowlands, and it's going to take more than one trip unless you find and kill something so dangerous that it's worth 20 goblins on your first foray.

>> No.55366873


Depending on your GM, you might get the chance to join the Crab without 20 Goblins, or at least "cheat" your way around it. The Hiruma would accept your fealty without question just to get your techniques, and I can't see the others being uncool about it. Your main difficulty would be keeping your techniques without offending your new masters, rather than hunting down 20 goblins.

If you are Cursed by Jigoku then this might come in for double, as you would be unfit for the Wall anyway, so there is no point in undergoing the 20 goblins challenge. The Hiruma would hire you and immediately put you into one of their dojos under the pretense of "meshing skills" and persuade/force you to teach Tsuruchi archery to their bushi.

>> No.55366897

No, they wouldn't. Techniques are really, really closely guarded. The Mantis would literally have justification to start a war, and would likely have imperial backing for it. At the very least, any family the traitor has will be executed, and assassins will not stop coming until he and any students are dead. Technique sanctity is an extremely big deal in Rokugan.

>> No.55366898


The point is that he doesn't actually have to enter the Shadowlands proper. A Rank 3 Tsuruchi Archer can snipe 20 goblins in a few days from the Wall itself.

But again, the Hiruma would probably gather the 20 heads for him and drop the package at his tent in the first morning. Just to get off on the right footing.

>> No.55366926

I don't know where you got the idea that anyone would steal techniques, but it's not correct. That's the kind of thing that gets everyone involved killed on imperial orders, and possibly even everyone related to them. Not even the Scorpion steal techniques. Hell, even the fucking Spider didn't steal techniques.

>> No.55366935


Dude is a Ronin. Once he becomes a Hiruma, he is a Hiruma. The Mantis can suck a fat cock, a Hiruma teaching other Hiruma is strictly Crab internal business.

The Tsuruchi wouldn't be happy, but they fucked this one up when they made the guy a ronin and didn't kill him on the spot.

Also, as I said earlier, it is up to the character to yield or try to work his way around it. The Hiruma WILL insist, they literally have no reason whatsoever to do otherwise (but plenty of reasons to go with it).

>> No.55366979

They have every reason to not go with it. It's a direct insult to their own school, it's justification for the entire rest of the country to declare war, its a direct statement that they have no honor whatsoever, and it's shameful on every level.
It also might not even be feasible, since techniques are not just neat tricks. Schools come with mindsets and philosophies that are integral to using their Techs. That's why you only get them at milestones instead of a more freewheeling system like kata use.

>> No.55367003


If Hiromi could prove his worth to Seiken by defending him from the grave danger Kaito foresaw, he would keep his course, despite the elder monks pleas. Not long after, a terrible storm came rumbling over the horizon, quickly enveloping the fleet. And with that storm came something horrible.

Gaijin ships, half-rotten, sails in tatters, and filled with undead sailors lost at the Sea of Shadows.

A great battle was had. Taichi's training as a sailor came in handy, leading the marines on our ship against the scourge we faced, cutting down one assailant after the other. Jiaying's fiery kiho blazed a glorious trail through the undead ranks while Yoshimitsu's arrows flew, and Kaito helped those among the crew that were wounded. Eventually, the undead were beat back, but at a great cost: not only had many lost their lives fighting, the ship carrying the body of Daikakita Tatsuya was lost in the storm.

The mood was dark on the rest of the journey back while wounds were nursed, but nothing else was encountered on the way.

Finally, the group returned to Tsuma, although they would not return to their duties quite yet. The ciphered text recovered from the Chuda in the colonies had been decrypted, and pointed the way towards a particular Scorpion. Yoshimitsu was to take a detachment from the Imperial Legions and journey to the Second Festering Pit, writing periodic reports of his advancements. If within 2 weeks a report would not arrive, the Scorpion Clan would be held accountable for this betrayal and the Legions would march into their lands.

Having taken a liking to the group, Kaito joins them, knowing his experience might be of use to the relatively young party. The journey to the Second Pit was rather uneventful, but nobody could deny the cloud of worry hanging over the group. More war was one thing Rokugan did not need, not at a time like this. But conflict always finds a way, and the Second Pit would hold much of it for the group.

>> No.55367056


This would be shameful to the Tsuruchi, actually, because it was them who let one of their archers join the Crab. At the bare minimum, the character's sensei would death-duel the guy who made the character into a ronin. Well, the guy is dead anyway, but the sensei will insist to cleanse the honor of his school with the duel.

Then the Mantis might launch a political/undercover campaign to somehow sabotage the character's newly earned loyalty. Maybe (most likely) assassinate him.

The problem is, that this would be "stealing" and thus shameful only if the archer remained a Tsuruchi. That would be a clear case. But the archer becoming a full-fledged Hiruma automatically shuts-out all his connections to his previous life, so he is free to do whatever his (new) family demands. This is why the Different School Advantage is such a big deal, and the Clan and the Dojo bury the student's knowledge under several layers of secrecy pacts.

>> No.55367072

>At the bare minimum, the character's sensei would death-duel the guy who made the character into a ronin.

...that's a hell of an assumption. So no samurai can ever actually become ronin in your version of Rokugan?

>> No.55367167

Wouldn't a missing eye be bad eyesight?

>> No.55367267
File: 418 KB, 1280x970, Kaiu_Fumiko.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]


People with legit unique Techniques like Tsuruchi Archers (or Shosuro Actors) cannot. Especially at Rank 3. Nobody cares if a Yoritomo Bushi teaches some dude how to fight with two kamas, his techs are not very valuable outside of his Clan. This actually happens quite a lot in Rokugan, when a bushi decides to teach their techs to others just because they feel like that's what they want (the newest L5R fic has it too with a Dragon swordswoman).

Alas, the Tsuruchi/Mantis would probably keep the situation under tabs and not bust it wide open. Admitting that one of your Archers just fucking left for the Hiruma would do unpleasant things to dojo/family/clan face, and it is not assured that the other clans would side with the Mantis of all people. Heck, even if they come under attack, the Hiruma has a solid defensive position and may legitimately question the Tsuruchi's attack - if not render it completely nonsensical.

But I don't think that the character's case worth this much game-wise. The Hiruma recruits him in an instant because free Rank 3 Tsuruchi Archers don't grow in bushes, end of story. Them forcing the character to share his techniques may be an interesting plot point, but they are well off without it too.

>> No.55367313
File: 296 KB, 1280x935, 1420872554184.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

You two bring up very good points... I hope my GM doesn't look at this thread, otherwise who knows what fun we might have in the future!

>> No.55367333


Yoshimitsu did not waste any time getting down to business when we arrived at the Second Pit, starting his investigation into the Scorpion we were looking for. This man however did not seem to be around anymore, and it was taking quite some time looking through the local military archives. The fact that the archivist did not take kindly to his demanding attitude did not make it any easier.

Kaito however had a way of endearing himself to most anyone.

Suspecting Yoshimitsu might need aid, he made his way to the archives, overseen by a young woman disdainfully looking at the Tsuruchi pouring over scroll after scroll.

"My, what a beautiful flower I find on this wall." The archivist was taken aback, not expecting such a compliment in this of all places. Kaito could tell despite the mask she was blushing.
"Excuse me, who are you?"
"Oh, I am just an old man who has travelled a bit too much lately. I must say, I have heard many rumours of the beauty of Scorpion women. I'm glad to see that even in a place as desolate as this pit, that is still true."
"Oh, well, thank you."
"Your parents must be quite proud of you, little flower. I have no doubt in my mind they've ensured a nakodo will find a fine young man for you to wed."
"Thank you, dear monk. My betrothed is indeed a good man."
"Why, I'm sure their pride must swell knowing their daughter works so diligently in a place like this, it must be why they found such a fine man for you. I would love to hear all about him, maybe over a nice cup of tea?"
"That would be lov-"
"Oh, but it seems like I will not be able to. My dear friend there is looking for someone, and it seems I will have to help him. Maybe another time."
"...One moment, please"

The archivist quickly managed to assemble all documents Yoshimitsu needed, drastically speeding up his investigation. The man we were looking for had left the wall roughly a month ago, returning to his family's estate.

The tea afterwards was quite lovely as well.

>> No.55367407

>This actually happens quite a lot
Find a single example.

>> No.55367424


The newest L5R fic? Like, I don't even have to strain my memory, it is that recent.

>> No.55367457

Except they do and they have. High ranking Ronin aren't particularly rare among their peers, since the vast majority of Ronin are formerly of clans. All techniques are considered unique and clan secrets. Similar to how most clans will execute any deserters, even their enemies, most clans will execute technique thieves, and they'll have a strong political position for it. Unless the emperor hates their guts, they and any clan that wants to jump in on it under the pretence of preserving honor can declare war, or blood feuds, or cut off trade deals.

>> No.55367474

Is she actually a Ronin? I haven't read it, but there's either strange circumstances or FFG is seriously changing the lore.

>> No.55367489

Is that actually a Technique or just a skill? Teaching skills is way, waaaay different from teaching a capital T Technique.

>> No.55367554

Default schools bury your knowledge under secrecy pacts. They don't want that knowledge spreading freely, and "he's in a different clan now" is not a workable loophole, because he's still known as a member of the School. At absolute best, he "dies", takes on a brand new identity, and all his students stay on the wrong side of the wall so that they aren't observed by any of the other clan soldiers on the Wall or in Rokugan proper, and then when one does get seen, all the questions of where he learned that come out in the open and he either has to spill the beans or dishonor his sensei. So at best you delay the shitstorm for a while.

>> No.55367648

>High ranking Ronin aren't particularly rare among their peers, since the vast majority of Ronin are formerly of clans.

Most of the Clan Samurai never pass to Rank 2. Rank 3 is considered rare even among the standard samurai, let alone the ronin.

>All techniques are considered unique and clan secrets.

Only within the authority of the dojo. Once a character slips out of that (like, he becomes a ronin), he is free to do whatever he wants, unless he retains his connections to his dojo (for example, he returns to learn a higher-ranking tech). This shit is specifically emphasized under the Different School Advantage.

>> No.55367674

My Tsuruchi archer would not give away the clan's secret techniques. She might teach them how to correctly use a bow, but even she has some honor left, even as a Ronin.

So this kind of conundrum would be very fun.

>> No.55367700


Worse, she is a full-blown Clan Samurai. She just showed up in Ryoko Owari of all places and opened her very own dojo, training the ->Scorpion<- to fight like a Mirumoto.

And this was always the case, even in Old5R. I'm actually not sure where the anon is getting his idea of general school techniques being a big deal. I guess it is a wiki thing.


It is the Technique. IIRC, it is even spelled out in the fic.

>> No.55367776


Oh, another thing: the Hiruma/Crab might be hell-bent on giving you a waifu and thus prevent you to bail out easily.

>> No.55367798

The different school advantage does not give you free reign to teach secrets, and the sanctity of techniques is universal.
Aside from all that, having a tech is not a prerequisite for teaching it. The Hiruma lost their original school precisely because the only survivor could not teach what he knew, and there are bushi sensei who are literally shugenja. Being rank 3 means you *might* be able to teach the rank 1, and then your student is sol, and their students are even more sol.

>> No.55367823

Name one old5r example then. Every primary source I've read says otherwise. Some even directly state that technique thieves are executed along with their entire family and students.

>> No.55367913

You know what? I bet that's a setup for the genesys system they're making. It's class trees are fluid and easily switched between.

>> No.55367920

No my idea is to have them as different people, but have the Ronin related in some fashion to the kidnappers.

Anyone else have issues posting of late?

>> No.55367993

Also, anyone who takes on the 20 goblin winter joins a specific vassal family of the Hida.

>> No.55368010

But anon... I am a waifu

With Benten's blessing and Stone Hands

>> No.55368162

Anyone else have issues posting of late?
I don't

>> No.55368282

In the original, Jotomon had developed her own Techniques which she taught at her dojo rather than the core Mirumoto Tech. It may well be the same here, since it's simply stated that the Scorpion insulted ''her style'' and mot explicitly the Mirumoto bushi school.

It's also worth noting that the story says her dojo teaches non-dragons "in defiance of all convention", so obviously it's not done all the time.

>> No.55368720


Their target's location determined, the group started getting ready to leave again. At that moment, horns sounded in a dire warning: a horde of monstrous oni was attempting to climb out of the Second Pit. Every capable warrior joined the fray, clan loyalty mattered little when facing demons from hell. They braved the hellish onslaught, or at least, the younger ones did. Lacking any proper armor, Kaito once more stayed back to tend to the wounded while the others slew oni after oni. Finally, a great monstosity emerged, a strange amalgamation of a centipede and a spider, leading the horde. It let out an ear-deafening screech, and started clawing with its many spindly forelegs at the defending samurai. Taichi managed not only to dodge such a blow, but with a mighty swing of his no-dachi, he cut off the offending leg. A hail of arrows from the archers led by Yoshimitsu finally felled the great beast, plunging it back into the depths of the Second Pit. No longer backed by its great momentum, the rest of the horde routed, and the survivors went to heal their wounds and purify themselves.

The party having rested after this fierce battle, once again they started getting ready to leave only to receive a summons. It seemed we had not gone unnoticed, what with the detachment of legion samurai joining us as well as several of the Imperial Legions amassing at the Scorpion border.

And so we met with Bayushi Nitoshi, Champion of the Scorpion Clan. It seemed to Kaito as though he was the only one aware of what this meant for the group, and of the potential danger. But it was not his place to tell them, so he simply prayed that they would not blunder before Nitoshi.

They proceeded to tell him why they were there, and of the evidence they had found. Nitoshi revealed he had taken a personal interest in the matter, and would help the group, as long as the traitorous Scorpion would be handed over to Scorpion custody. They had... ways of dealing with traitors, after all.

>> No.55368815

the problem with this line is those who join the Crab via 20 Goblin Winter become Moshibaru, a vassal family that are used as shocktroops beyond the wall. Unless the GM bends the lore for you, you'd be doing literally nothing except fighting shadowlands and breeding.

>> No.55368854

>when a bushi decides to teach their techs to others just because they feel like that's what they want (the newest L5R fic has it too with a Dragon swordswoman).

Just because a mirumoto is teaching kenjutsu doesn't mean they're teaching the secret techniques of the mirumoto bushi school. Even a ronin can have no techniques and 10 kenjutsu

>> No.55368858

The Moshibaru aren't necessarily all shocktroops. They're a valid Family alongside the other military Families. Just the fact that there are natural born Moshibaru makes that clear. The real problem is that vassal families are obscure and generally not important, making it difficult to really do anything of note.

>> No.55368962

Mirumoto is kind of and odd case, though, in that their Kenjutsu style is intrinsically linked to their two sword technique. Even then, though, Nite is a freely available book, and a student of Mirumoto kenjutsu might lose dual wielding penalties as in the rank one tech without also gaining the extra ATN bonus or the spell TN trickery.

>> No.55369065

practitioners of niten are perfectly proficient with just one sword, and can teach typical kenjutsu

>> No.55369096

At what rank are skills considered to be decent? Above average? Amazing?

>> No.55369107

dude. it's the shadowlands. it's never as easy as it should be. If I was his GM I'd be champing at the bit to make this interesting. either in terms of political ramifications or in terms of complications in the shadowlands. especially if you are an experienced bushi.

>> No.55369139

Original Ronin Tsuruchi player here: if I really wanted to become a Crab through the 20 goblin winters, would you let me have a swing at this?

>> No.55369142

If we're talking about mecahnically? 3 is decent, 7 is typically as high as you want to go, and only then for the mastery if you really want it.

If we're talking about the lore, you gotta keep in mind that samurai are "trained" in basically every skill. A samurai with 0 horsemanship knows how to ride a horse. Therefor 0 and 1 are "decent". 2 is when you're a cut above the crowd, with 3 being the threshold for "good". 5 and beyond is where the masters of the craft dwell.

>> No.55369188

A lot of the philosophical precepts of Niten work with one sword-- the virtue of walking, the practice of deceit, the muslin no shin stuff, the let-him-go-by stuff-- but a fair bit of the practical advice relies on having two swords. You certainly could teach someone Niten-influenced single sword kenjutsu, it just seems inefficient.

I mean, given that no
one ever attacks with the wakizashi anyway, even eating the offhand penalty isn't an issue using RAW. If you houserule that katanas need both hands or take a big penalty (as many do), *then* you'll run into problems.

>> No.55369279

>Taichi getting himself betrothed to a Spider on account of his lechery and her big titties

I don't remember this part.

>> No.55369424

I'm not your GM. I said "If I was your GM".

I'd consider it, since it is a canon way for a PC who became a ronin and was still playable to become a proper samurai again. Though I'd need to know more details about the kind of game that this was and what the party had been doing up to this point in order to figure out if this made sense and how to make it interesting.

Also how did you end up a ronin and how far away are you from crab lands?

>> No.55369443

Yodotai is never going to get used for anything since they don't have a way to beat them.

>> No.55369489

Is it a problem to start with Yoritomo courtier and jumping over to Yoritomo bushi later on?

I'm just looking to get the level 1 school technique of their courtier.

>> No.55369516

You have to buy the multiple schools advantage, but you're allowed to.

>> No.55369577

>I'm not your GM. I said "If I was your GM".
I'm aware.

But I'm glad that, if the game took that turn, you would find it interesting.

>Also how did you end up a ronin and how far away are you from crab lands?
This ronin game was supposed to be a one-shot to test out character archetypes for L5R: I didn't think too hard about why but I came up with this story. My character had a *very* bitter betrothal to a very dishonorable samurai (clan not specified) who would:
>kill peasants for minor things or if he was in a very particular foul mood
>lose his temper and therefore his 'go' in front of others at times
>place his failings on scapegoats that couldn't fight back to save face

My character found out about the failings of this abhorrent man but, since he outranked her, didn't speak up against him. She also didn't want to commit protest seppuku and fled from home taking her travel pack, resigned to the life of a Ronin, as opposed to a plaything for a man she hated.

>> No.55369586

It's doable, but you would need to make it work in your backstory. Figure out the in-universe reason for the switch, bearing mind mind that your starting school was your parents' first choice for you. Maybe you were always supposed to be a courtier, except shortly after your gempukku, your older brother, heir to the family dojo, died-- leaving with the duty of taking his place and forced to abandon courtierhood in order to study combat in order to take over from your father when the time came?

>> No.55369672

cursed by the Ream: Jigoku or something else?
Does your character know they have this disadvantage? If so how well d they understand it?

>> No.55369717

I'll avoid mentioning it because I game with elegan/tg/entlemen but it's not that: otherwise I would not even think of going near the shadowlands.

I'll storytime the game eventually, when I have time and more material thereof.

>> No.55369798

>This ronin game was supposed to be a one-shot to test out character archetypes for L5R

I would like to ask some questions for clarification. here are the first two. please answer them so I can figure out what to ask next or if I need to ask more.

You guys played a one-shot and enjoyed it enough to want to play a longer game, correct?

Are you saying all of the PCs were ronin or that the character you made for the one-shot was a ronin?

>> No.55369825

>You guys played a one-shot and enjoyed it enough to want to play a longer game, correct?

meant to say "to want to extend it into a longer game, correct?"

>> No.55369950

oh yes they do, Sun tao is supposedly the founder of the yodotai empire, all it would take to defeat them would be for the rokugani to contact his spirit and tell his people to chill. Also, that sun tao really got around.
Your reasoning is on point though, but from a meta point of view they always asspull a rokugani win. Even if it takes a plague to wipe out a continent offscreen.

>> No.55370049


I do seem to recall having described both his lechery and his betrothal to a Spider, though due to narrative constraints, might very well be I did not actually explain his choice, and it wasn't relevant to the two-post epilogue i did in Ishigaki's post-mortem thread

There were a few things I didn't describe due to the point of view I was writing in, because Tatsuya wasn't around to witness those things, such as Taichi getting the geisha in Second City pregnant, or what went on when Jiaying met with M'rika and Kuchika during Summer Court (although that's also because that was handled in solo sessions)

But for the most part none of them matter too much to the main storyline, or will be revealed as the story progresses

>> No.55370097


There are quite a few examples: Bayushi Aramoro teaching Shosuro Infiltrator techs to his not!waifu, Toturi teaching Akodo Bushi techs to the Legion of the Wolf. IIRC, Kakita Toshimoko also taught the Kakita Duelist techs while he was the Grey Crane.

You might be thinking about Wick's middle finger in the Way of the Wolf about how ronin can't teach their techs because ronin can't have anything good (and because he was obviously lazy to write proper rules for it). I faintly recall that this survived through the editions despite not being mentioned anywhere else (in fact, Emerald Empire straight-out contradicts it).

>> No.55370116


It is the Kami Akodo who supposedly founded the Yodotai, not Sun Tao. The Yodotai was already on a conquest spree when ST showed up in Rokugan.

>> No.55370192

>While away from the Empire Sun Tao may have had dealings with, or even founded, the Yodotai Empire. Sometime after the Awakening, the Yodotai soldier, Adrianna heard Duqaq say "A competent general attacks an enemy's army. A superior general attacks an enemy's alliances.". Adrianna recognized those attributed the same words to the Yodotai historical figure Augustus the Uniter, while Bayushi Tomaru declared them to be from Sun Tao. Duqaq told them, "No, both.", and said no more on the subject.
The source it's from is http://www.lowfierce.com/kazenoshiro/7/h7e03p100.htm just control f for sun tao

>> No.55370309


This reminds me my first character, an Utaku Battle Maiden who had both Dangerous Beauty and Curse of Jigoku. She turned into an intelligent skellington in the end and became the Utaku family daimyo in our Obsidian Empire.

>> No.55370405

Now I kind of want to make a meme NPC with Benten's Blessing and a nemuranai that lets him take on the appearance of one of ten different spirits.

>> No.55370560

Explorers in the supernatural Shinomen Forest.
Guardians in the Edge of the World Mountains guarding against yobanjin gaijin barbarian tribes.
Caravan traders in the western unicorn lands venturing into the Burning Sands to deal with gaijin merchants.
Garrisoned in the Spine of the World Mountains in the Beiden Pass that connects the Scorpion and Lion territory.
Protecting river travelers that sail through the ghost haunted Red Lake.

>> No.55370935

None of those are Ronin who started sharing their ex-clans school with another clan.

>> No.55370965


Both Toturi and Toshimoko were ronin.

>> No.55371108

And neither were sponsored by a clan that wants to steal their school. Because doing that is political and literal suicide.

>> No.55371180

Sounds like a good story and reason anon.

Is the first child always thought to be a bushi?

Due the Yoritomo family break away from this tradition or do they have their own regarding first born children?

>> No.55371286

The first born is typically the heir, so if wgat you have to pass down to your heir is a dojo, then the firstborn should be whatever it is your dojo teaches.

Otherwise, it varies a lot, though it's not unusual for the firstborn to follow in a parent's footsteps. Unless they have the shugenjas gift, of course. Then they're getting trained as a shugenjas no matter what schools the parenuts went to.

>> No.55371631

How about if he is the son of a Yoritomo bushi who became well renowned that his parents decided for a courtier school to ensure the land and wealth his family had won would remain for the next generation.

Like his father, he grew bored and wanted glory and adventure of his own. He managed to convince entry to one of the Yoritomo schools much to his mother's fear and his father's pride and secret blessings?

>> No.55371673

I think a better option in the same vein is that he had an older brother who was inheriting the renowned bushi bloodline. But then he died. So are they going to let that legacy (and those ancestral weapons) fall to some pansy courtier? No, of course not.

>> No.55371713

anybody have the pdf of stone wall?

>> No.55371932

wait... oh yeah he burned down the geisha house where a woman he had been seeing lived after he got betrothed to the spider clan woman right?

>> No.55371979


>> No.55372014


>> No.55372115

i liked the scorpion lady who ran the geisha house and the old woman who ran tea joint and gave your first character the jade object. they seemed like interesting NPCs. Were they interesting in the game when the GM used them or did they simply take on more life in the process of you telling to story here?

>> No.55372656

Sorry for the gap in posting, was watching Kurosawa's Hidden Fortress

Only started watching his films this summer, been quite the hoot, and helped scratch that L5R itch while I'm waiting for my GM to write the follow-up campaign

Yup, that he did, while, as i said, he planted evidence pointing the burning towards Otomo Setsuko

Funny thing is, though, that the pregnant geisha herself survived, and the bastard ronin will make a reappearance in the follow-up campaign


If anything, I probably underwrote them. Their scenes were among the earliest in the campaign, and while among the more memorable for me, the memory was still quite fuzzy due to having played that in early-to-late 2015

>> No.55372839

Please continue.

I think this is the first game I've ever seen story timed where the second festering pit is mentioned or visited.

>> No.55373001

That's because a lot of games aren't in an era where the second pit even exists. It's a pretty late development on the timeline.

>> No.55373016
File: 275 KB, 360x512, Female_Kenshin_(NAT).png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

>youngest daughter of chill-as-fuck Ide dad and asshole Bayushi mom
>considered useless even for arranged marriage, sent to become a Battle Maiden because her dad wanted to make her happy
>mom gifts her a daisho during gempukku: the katana is named "tall order" and the wakizashi is named "short comings" - did I say that her mother was an asshole?
>adventure all around Rokugan with her jolly party of an Akodo Bushi, a Bayushi Courtier, and a Ronin (Goju) Ninja
>party is later joined by an Agasha Shugenja btw
>eventually wind up with two suitors: an archetypical Hida tank and a suave Daigotsu dude
>join the Ide duelist school, become a pretty good duelist, acquire a daisho that does not tell her that she is a failure in her asshole mother's eyes
>save an orphan girl from Moto slavers, adopt her as daughter, unwittingly start a fuckhuge Unicorn Civil War between the Shinjo/Ide/Utaku and the Moto/Iuchi
>learn Yomanri Archery, become a pretty good mounted archer
>get drawn to the Second Festering Pit, befriend a Hannya, reveal a super-sekret Scorpion/Spider alliance+conspiracy
>return home, get eaten up by Taint, try to Sudoku, return to life as a skellington because apparently, that was her Shadowlands Power
>Daigotsu husbando gives superior disguise and marries her (yeah, he loved her that much)
>Opens dojo, trains Utaku girls for mounted archery, unwittingly taints all her students
>Obsidian Empire happens
>Approched by an agent of Daigotsu, she is persuaded to submit, kill her own family (dad+mom+siblings) as a show of loyalty, acquires OP Shadowlands Power and the ability to bestow this power to her followers
>adopted daughter is scurried away by the Hida
>forms the Utaku Dark Maidens and massacres the Battle Maidens, receives Utaku Family Daimyo position as a reward

The continuation of the story would have been her adopted daughter (my next character) returning to the Obsidian Empire to slay her fallen mother. Sadly, that game never dusted off.

>> No.55373029

because the old canon setting fucking sucked.

new canon setting is aight though

>> No.55373046

>If anything, I probably underwrote them. Their scenes were among the earliest in the campaign, and while among the more memorable for me, the memory was still quite fuzzy due to having played that in early-to-late 2015

I wish I could chat with your GM.
I'm running my second game ever and first one where having good NPCs in non-combat, non-stealth interactions are important and the first game I've run where politics is on it's way to becoming important, and I'm out of my depth. (the game isn't l5r, but l5r deals with all of those things to a degree many others don't so i figure asking someone who runs l5r for their wisdom is a good idea.)

>> No.55373085

The new setting has barely changed anything yet. It's vaguely got some different events in distant history and rearranged the chromosomes a bit. The era it's in is similar to the relevant era in old canon.

>> No.55373196

damn. that's quite a story.
not sure i would have enjoyed playing in it. (i get hung up on "should and should not happens" that my mind thinks it sees in offical lore which can make it hard for me to enjoy some things)
but pretty neat.

>> No.55373270

>The new setting has barely changed anything yet

The rough sketch of the setting is mostly the same, sure, but it has none of the stench of AEG. No Mantis. No Spider. No retarded fucking clan champions doing retarded fucking shit because wick thinks it would be badass

>> No.55373280


We played this in parallel with the canon timeline, and most of the "off-shots" were things that seemed to happen in the future (Scorpion/Spider alliance over the SFP, Unicorn Civil War). Our GM had to roll with a lot of waves as canon became the notorious mess that led up to the Obsidian Empire.

>> No.55373309


(As a last sidenote, this meeting was roughly when we started the almost 12 hour-long session that wrapped up the campaign because Yoshimitsu's player's internship took him to Congo for a good part of the summer)

Kaito scanned the party as Nitoshi made his case. While Yoshimitsu seemed to pay attention thanks to his training as an Ivory Magistrate, his mind seemed more focused on the continuation of his investigation and pursuit rather than its termination. Jiaying and Taichi seemed more itching for the next bit of action, and the latter in particular only spent a minimum of attention. Despite his better judgement, due to this being the Scorpion Clan Champion, Kaito decided to try and be the voice of reason, to make sure Nitoshi didn't have his way with the group without at least some resistance.

"Now, I'll have my men ready the best horses available. This requires the utmost speed."
"Oh, honorable Bayushi-sama, there is no need to get one of the best horses for a simple, humble monk such as myself. There's no need to make such a great fuss"
"Honorable monk, there is a great urgency here. When a leaf is sick on a bonsai tree, one must cut it off before the disease spreads."
"That might be true, but one must be careful not to cut off the wrong leaf, lest you hurt the tree too much."
"And if the disease spreads to the branch, a great many more leaves will be cut off along with it."
"One must still make sure the tree survives as unmarred as possible."
"Sometimes a few more leaves than necessary must be cut off to ensure the tree survives."

And absent-minded Daidoji Taichi commented "And sometimes a tree must be burned to save the forest."

It took him half a minute before he noticed how everyone was staring at him in disbelief.

>> No.55373321

Let's be fair, what Altansarnai did was dumb as shit. Though the whole situation was dumb - as some anon said, it hinged on the Ide family not existing.

>> No.55373325

Mantis is a later addition from a later era. Spider is an even more later addition from an even later era. Yoritomo has been namedropped already, and he's *the* Yoritomo. The one that they named the family after. He could very well pull the Mantis as a great clan out of his ass exactly like he did last time. The champions being stupid is coming right up, because this is the era literally months before they started doing that. Literally nothing major has changed yet except that Kachiko can't get knocked up by the Crane because they cut his balls off and replaced them with a vagoo.

>> No.55373372


I think the Unicorn story was the best of the bunch. With the Dragon being a close second.

>> No.55373399

You really should read the new fictions if you haven't already. The trajectory of everything is already wrong. Kisada doesn't resent the Empire. Shoju thinks a coup is a retarded idea. Hotaru mentioned that Yoritomo was leading a band of pirates, not heading a minor clan. Toturi is relatively passive and actually just wants what's best for the Lion.

Everything has changed.

>> No.55373419

I actually thought it was the more oldschool of the stories. The Dragon one was good, but my favorite was the Lion story. The one that did the least for me was the Crab one, even though they're one of my two favorite clans, because it really didn't tell us anything new.

>> No.55373449

What, no. Kisada resents the Empire in the same way as the old fluff.

>How much smoke would it take for the Emperor to act? Or would all of Rokugan have to be aflame for his majesty to notice?

>> No.55373463

I didn't say that it was going to stay the same, but right now, it pretty much is the same. And Yoritomo leading a band of pirates could very well just be the character's opinion. A minor clan that acts uppity could very well just be thought of as bandits by a great clan champion.

Nothing has changed yet, until these characters actually do different things and it plays out differently.

>> No.55373566

The Mantis were always pirates, and continued to be pirates even after becoming a Great Clan. Anyone in charge of them could be said to be in charge of a band of pirates, and the only thing wrong about that statement is that they're probably in charge of multiple bands of pirates instead of just one.

>> No.55373583

>"And sometimes a tree must be burned to save the forest."

i wonder if the scorpion chamion is going to interpret this as a threat or stark reminder that by guarding your machinations you may doom a whole section of the empire.

>> No.55374638


Even Nitoshi had been dumbstruck by this comment. Once he managed to regain composure, he finally replied: "That is precisely what I'm trying to prevent from happening. Now, if you please, the horses will be waiting."

Kaito couldn't bring himself to continue the conversation. He hadn't expected Taichi to drop such a thinly veiled threat so absent-mindedly, and although it certainly had an effect on the Clan Champion, Kaito wasn't sure it was the right, or the best, effect this group should have on him. Any Scorpion is an enemy you don't want to have, and the Clan Champion is worth at least ten scheming Scorpion courtiers by himself.

The ride to the estate of the man we were following was a short one, the group arriving in the evening. The lord of the house was there, his son, the man we were looking for, was not. While the others went inside to question the father, Kaito decided his time would be better spent enjoying the view over the small garden of delicate flowers in the estates courtyard. He could overhear some of the discussion, but did not pay too much attention to it either; the flowers looked quite beautiful in the setting sun. From what he heard, though, is that the man they're following has been quite bad at covering his tracks: several conflicting reports on his whereabouts, some proclaiming him dead 6 months ago in the colonies, dead at the Second Pit 2 months ago, and his own father having seen him leave a week ago to the colonies, so he would not even have arrived at Second City yet.

A gentle breeze wafted over the flowers as Jiaying joined Kaito at the flowerbed, and they had yet another of their philosophical discussions. Kaito tried to explain the importance of balance within one's spirit, because it was easy to see Jiaying's flame might burn too brightly for her own good. A sort of zeal had overtaken her, and it was easy to see it could blind her to what is important in the right moment.

>> No.55374680

It shows he's not content with the actions of the current emperor, though he's reverent enough to not question the emperor's authority even within the sanctity of his own mind. Whereas the old Kisada was full Hida-no-kami and thought the emperor and the empire was weak and ripe for the taking.

Do you really think that the champion of the Crane would stoop so low as to slander a minor clan by just calling them pirates? They were ordained by the Emperor to preform their duty, after all.

No, Yoritomo is just some guy in this timeline.

>> No.55374771

>Do you really think that the champion of the Crane would stoop so low as to slander a minor clan by just calling them pirates?
Yes, especially when said minor clan literally have pirates who regularly attack Crane shipping.
>They were ordained by the Emperor to preform their duty, after all.
They were ordained by the emperor because one of their leaders had the balls to put a knife to his throat in public to prove a point. The Mantis have no stated duty in this era, nor do they have a Family name. They're as low as a minor clan can be.

>> No.55374787

I think that reading is a stretch, considering that the Crab are the masters of the backhanded compliment ("Oh, how sincere.") At most, you can say that this version of Kisada is slightly more emotional and fragile than his original incarnation: he is genuinely horrified by Tomonatsu's death and feels the weight of years more.

>> No.55374789

Yoritomo was just some guy in the old timeline too. The Mantis were glorified pirates until the Minor Clan alliance happened.

>> No.55374848

>Aramoro and Asami

Aramoro and Kachiko taught Asami non-Technique level skills until she caught herself a Yogo Husband. Then once she was officially a Scorpion, he taught her the Infiltrator school.

>Toturi and Ronin

Toturi actually developed new techniques for his army. See the Wolf Legion, a Samurai's Fury, and the Path of Toturi. Though also at that the time the Akodo family was defunct which would technically put their school as a ronin one as the Lion would no longer have a claim to it.


I don't recall him teaching at all during his time as the Grey Crane. He was mostly incognito trying to track down the Goju.

>> No.55374861

depends on if the crane champion at the time had a drinking problem that finally slipped in court or not.

>> No.55374988

This is how the Mantis get recognized. They started as a band of Crabs upset by the order of inheritance, and don't officially exist as a clan to anyone but the Crab, who at least acknowledge them as being there. Then Gusai happens and they gain a Family name and proper recognition. Then they lose the Gusai name because they try this dumb bullshit again and just piss the emperor off. Then they gain the Yoritomo name because third time's the charm.

>Gusai was the first great daimyo of the Mantis Clan, the clan of sailors and merchants who live off the coast of our great Empire. Gusai was a powerful daimyo and a great lord, and he was called into the court of the Emperor to build trade through the Empire, for the Mantis were rich in those days.
>But Gusai sat in the court and said not a word, while all the courtiers of the Empire chattered and negotiated. Days passed, and still Gusai would speak to no one but the Emperor.
>"Speech and action," he said to the Hantei, "are the basis of governing. They can move heaven and earth, but they are not as strong as steel."
>The Emperor said to Gusai, "Show me that steel is stronger, and I will make you a lord of my court."
>With a warrior's motion, Gusai drew a blade hidden in his robes and leveled it at the Hantei's throat. "There is nothing that can take your life as easily as steel. If you do not know fear, then you do not respect steel."
>The Emperor smiled, and Gusai removed the blade. "Very good, Gusai-san," he said, and called forth his guard. "You have proven your point. Steel is strong enough to make you a lord." With a wave of the Emperor's hand, Gusai was made the first daimyo of the Mantis, from sea to sea. "Your children shall bear your name, and your clan shall be welcome in my court.
>"But, Lord Gusai, before you go," the Hantei smiled, "let me show you how much stronger words can be." With a pen stroke, he signed Gusai's execution warrant and that day, the sun sank into a bloody sea.

>> No.55375039

>You guys played a one-shot and enjoyed it enough to want to play a longer game, correct?

>Are you saying all of the PCs were ronin or that the character you made for the one-shot was a ronin?
All our characters were are ronin.

>> No.55375269

The truest Scorpion is the most "honourable";
He who keeps to his word, no matter the cost.

>> No.55375308


Ok so it's a group of ronin all getting masters again.

honestly if I were your GM I'd have everyone roll up new characters for the game proper unless I had something very specific in mind.

But anyway. is the GM planning to have all of the ronin PCs ship out for crab lands because things are bad and they ronin are looking to do their part or regain their place in the world by doing their part? and you are wondering how that would work with your character?

or does the GM have another plan for the group and you are suggesting 20 goblin winter as an alternative?

>> No.55375387

It's a plan of mine to propose to the group. My character would go for the 20 goblin winter since being a ronin is kind of suffering... I'll propose it IC the next session and we'll see what they say about this.

>> No.55375708

>Yeah, it's always important to keep in mind that you do not need a relevant technique to do a thing
It helps if you want to be better than average with it, or for A Thing™ to be a reasonable weapon when you still have access to your katana.

>> No.55375763

>I wanted a good explanation for why they could or couldn't.
They're the Togashi, and the Dragon are the most personal freedom orientated clan in the whole of Rokugan.

Or to paraphrase; other clans' schools train students to reach their sensei's expectations, while the Dragon train their students to reach their own.

>> No.55375814

Good ole Dragon. Only clan with a dojo for its sensei.

>> No.55375850


>The family had a specific purpose. They either were teachers of Hida's techniques and philosophies, or they were the students. Once the students had proven their worth and honor, they could be promoted out of the vassal family, or they could choose to remain to help train and develop other new Moshibaru. Therefore, not all Moshibaru were ex-ronin, as those who were born Moshibaru proved their worth at their gempukku.

>> No.55376023

ok so you are in a game where the PCs are still going to be ronin, and you are looking for a way to have your character not be a ronin anymore.

that's something that should probably be more of an arc goal than something you do off screen if the party are all ronin.

>> No.55376317

Is there any game similar to L5R but with more of a martial arts focus rather than strictly samurai?

>> No.55376380

I guess there's Legends of the Wulin.

>> No.55377131

Is there any info on when Scorpions take off their masks? Surely they have to take them off when they bathe and/or sleep? And depending on the design, possibly when they eat? I am very interested in how this might be handled, whether it's through actual lore or personal ideas/instances from individual campaigns.

>> No.55377175

I don't think there's any hard lore on it, but it's unlikely that they keep them on literally all the time. Even the Kuni don't maintain their face covering literally 100% of the time, and they're crazy. When they're in public, the mask is on. When they aren't in public, it can probably come off.

>> No.55377181

Generally I handle it as something similar to a hat around the late 19th/early 20th century in the West, i.e. a Scorpion will be "underdressed" without it in public and will generally be expected to have it on most of the time, but allowances can be made for stuff like eating though generally people keep more than one mask depending on the occasion (military minded Scorps go for stuff that is basically slightly more stylish menpo, while courtiers and duelists go for more fashionable, less covering masks and so on)

>> No.55377210

What kind of mask they have actually depends more on the Family. I forget which is which, but one prefers particularly fancy masks, one prefers very simple coverings, and one go out of their way to only wear the mask that they want to wear based on their own individual preference.

>> No.55377240

Coming to think of it, there's a couple of mentions of Scorpion bathhouses where everyone is expected to wear face veils, even non-Scorpion.

>> No.55377314

I had a Scorpion that NEVER removed his elaborate mask in public. Since the jaws weren't hinged it meant he never ate in public. When he traveled and could not eat in private, he wore a simpler mask that was mempo of his armor. There was one time at a regional court that the servants did not serve him food at a feast because the lord's son thought it would be wasted (which it would) and he took high offense. I turned it into a high shitstorm that nearly led to the sepukku of the lord's son and a handful of others. Instead I let it go for a favor to be called in later.

I called it in to deny a rival the ability to give that lord's famous sake as a gift to the host of the Winter Court we both attended. Shit was cash and totally worth it to ruin a guy's first impression as he bragged he could get that rare and highly sought after sake.

>> No.55377852


(Sidenote: just noticed that the guy we're looking for is called Soshi Kodanshi, or at least it seems like my notes suggest that, for anyone that wants to look up the name)

It did not take long for the next course of action to be decided. Due to the urgency of the task at hand, the group would be sent to Second City by a way much faster than by sea: They would travel through Chikushudo, guided by Bayushi Misaki, a fox spirit that had taken on the form of a beautiful woman, and accompanied by Bayushi Kahoku. Time and Space were quite different in the spirit realms: a mile walked could be but a step, or a thousand miles, if one were to simply enter and exit one of the realms at will, and any sense of the passing of time quickly faded to the otherworldly sensations one was subjected to. Therefore, it was extremely dangerous to travel through the Realms, unless one had a guide. There are certain point between the Realms that overlap with both each other and Ningen-do; the group was to enter one found in Scorpion lands, around which a gate had been constructed, and be guided to another near the colonial capital. Why Kahoku was to accompany us, the others could only guess, though most simply thought he was there to ensure Kodanshi would swiftly go into Scorpion custody.

The passage into Chikushudo through the gate was not noteworthy in and of itself, and nobody could even think of how it felt as they saw the splendours of the Realm of Animals: creatures of all sizes wandering through an ethereal forest. Misaki told the group to stay close to her, and not to stray from one another regardless of why. The animal spirits could easily trick a human, though none of them were as capricious as the tricksters of Sakkaku.

As she mentioned that last word, what seemed like portals opened up in the sky, with various shapes falling out of it. She turned back to the group, eyes wandering, and asked coldly: "Which of you has angered Sakkaku?"

>> No.55378094

>"Which of you has angered Sakkaku?"

Oh boy, here we go!

>> No.55379318

what is the primary fuel in Rokugan cities for heating?

>> No.55379603

Hinin corpses, duh.

>> No.55379686


From the Book of Fire, page 112.

>Charcoal is one of the most frequently used fuels in Rokugan, and like most of the Empire’s resources it is regarded with respect and reverence. While the Rokugani have access to other fuels, such as wood, various oils, and even coal, charcoal is the most preferred source for heating, cooking,band crafting. In a pre-industrial society like the Emerald Empire, the value of a relatively cheap fuel that burns cleanly and for a long time cannot be understated.

>> No.55379891

Wait isn't charcoal a fuel source that consumes a rediculous amount of wood to make in large amounts?

>> No.55379976
File: 9 KB, 200x110, IMG_3679.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]


>> No.55380033
File: 652 KB, 500x307, IMG_3629.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

Oh shit

>> No.55380172

According to wikipedia, "under average conditions, 100 parts of wood yield about 60 parts by volume", so it doesn't seem as inefficient as it could be, but that's still a lot of wood for large-scale production.

It's probably worth considering that, of the three uses BoF specifies, heating is probably the least common, since a lot of Rokugan doesn't actually get that cold even in winter, whereas you cook several times a day every day.

Peasants probably use other fuels more often, too, like raw wood or animal dung. Hell, plenty of Unicorns probably use horse dung still. I imagine that charcoal is the "default fuel" the same way rice and fish is the "default diet"-- only in earshot of a Crane.

>> No.55381103

I agree: I would like this to be my character's goal. I will ask the others if they agree with my sentiment

>> No.55381191

Why do eta supposedly rarely advance to being peasants when they reincarnate? I thought the majority of romugan't population was peasants why would the smaller number of non-persons below them be stagnant in the celestial order.

Is this just to make the threat of coming back as eta EXTRA frightening/unappealing?

>> No.55381240

Eta are spiritually unclean because of the work they do, which saddles them with a lot of negative kharma. Theoretically a person born as an eta who then avoided all of the spiritually unclean stuff would have better karma, but then, they'd be shirking their dharma and Duty, which is its own source of negative karma.

>> No.55381284

why is that ninja flashing her cooch at that orc?

>> No.55381523

>Theoretically a person born as an eta who then avoided all of the spiritually unclean stuff would have better karma
Eta are reincarnated with shit karma from previous lives. If they weren't, they would have reincarnated as a samurai or better.

>> No.55381602

The first go round, sure; a non-eta does something heinous and reincarnates as an eta. But life as an eta piles on more spiritual impurity regardless of moral conduct, even as you work through your previous kharma, until after a few cycles you have eta reincarnated from their past lives as other eta whose only "sin" was doing eta's unclean work. Even a perfectly virtuous eta who works with dead bodies will accrue negative kharma, that's what makes the state so appalling; it's a reincarnation black hole where virtue barely matters.

>> No.55381856

There are no virtuous eta by the definitions of the celestial order. Their entire lives are unclean and spiritually impure from birth to death, no matter how hard they try or struggle otherwise. It's in being good and faithful servants (aka observing the celestial order) that they are allowed to reincarnate as not!eta. Anything else needs citing to not be headcanon.

>> No.55382255

Is someone who touches an Eta automatically also an eta, if they die before they can be purified?

>> No.55382594


>> No.55383027

Why are the Kolat so shit?

>> No.55383177

OOC assumptions.

>> No.55383208

Their stats suck though.

They should have been legitimately wiped out a dozen years after starting.

>> No.55383757

see the problem there is the population demographics of rokugan don't support it.

>> No.55383980

There are an unspecified number of souls sitting in various afterlives waiting to be reincarnated. You literally wait in line to see Emma-O, and the wait is long enough that Meido has to induce a fugue state to prevent problems.
But eta aren't the kharmic black hole. Gaki and slaughter spirits are. It's actually mentioned as a distantly looming catastrophy, because slaughter spirits never reincarnate out of the realm of slaughter permanently, and Gaki often wallow a little too much to clear themselves. Eventually, Toshigoku is going to fill up, and perma-gaki aren't supposed to even happen.

>> No.55384163

Official npc stats are a mixed bag. Some writers assume pcs are awesome and better than everyone, and others do not. This makes for inconsistencies.

>> No.55384229

What client are you guys using to play the LCG online? Tabletop simulator?

>> No.55384640

This would explain the inconsistencies I found when I read the books...

>> No.55384787

I like how the reprint of the 1E Way books had some sidebar that went like "You may have noticed that the NPC stats don't actually give them the Insight needed for their rank, this is uh, completely deliberate" when it was just that they were assigned stats without paying any attention to the character generation rules.

>> No.55385130

geisha are eta. they typically avoid the gross stuff.

>> No.55385867

Your meaning is clear, but the class of people that geisha and eta fall into is hinin. They're both non-people, but only eta deal with literal shit and other unclean substances. Geisha are non-people for loophole reasons, and there is spiritual mobility associated with them. Young girls can become geisha, and their children can be heimin or samurai if their contract is bought for that purpose. Eta are always eta (unless they get away with a stolen or scavenged daisho, but that's not legal and might not be spiritually advisable if they can't live up to it), and their children are always eta.

>> No.55385953

>Young girls can become geisha
Only eta girls. Anyone else who becomes a geisha slips from their position and is now an eta.

>and their children can be heimin or samurai
Not in any legal capacity, and certainly not to the ease in which you're implying. Yes, there have been cases where samurai lie about the identity of the mother so their bastard children can be samurai, but that's not limited to geisha. The same can be said of peasants or merchants.

>> No.55386314

You are wrong. Eta and geisha are in the same class, but aren't the same thing.
Young girls of any group except eta can become geisha. It is a downgrade for samurai, but it's legal. Eta cannot because they're spiritually unclean and therefore not suitable for a companion position.
Concubines are completely legal, and can be geisha, peasant, or samurai. Their children fall into the father's line of succession.

>> No.55386861

A child is always considered to be of the highest caste among the parents. This is why bastards are a big pain in the ass: a male samurai can have a child with a peasant, geisha or even a random eta girl and if it's the first one he fathered he legally stands to inherit, whatever the nobles think of his heritage.

>> No.55386889

Not even the first born. Look at Osano-wo and the whole business of the Mantis.

>> No.55386937

I was going to bring Osano-Wo up, but people could always say it's a special case because it happened in the mythological past and it's fucking Osano-Wo. Even so, however, in "modern" Rokugan a half-hinin bastard has the same inheritance rights as the full-blooded samurai siblings.

>> No.55387255

What is this grim dark?

>> No.55387711

Jigoku is also a black hole, because it never lets go once it has you. Ever. The shadowlands and the Taint only exist because it's greedy and invasive, where other realms don't spread much if at all, and usually don't hold on for very long if they touch your soul.
Ningen-do is actually one of the clingier ones. Anything that enters the mortal realm without very strong protection becomes mortal and will eventually die. That's Ningen-do's "taint".

>> No.55387770

Only if they aren't made Ronin. They have to acknowledge the child's caste, but do not have to accept him into the family or acknowledge any birthright beyond his samurai status. I'd say that most born-ronin are bastards with a heimin mother.

>> No.55388096

Yep the mortal realm is the second clingiest realm after jigoku.

and yet by it's very nature it doesn't want to keep hold of your souls after you die.

So what would happen if rokugan had a pupulation of 2 or 3 billion. Would the soul turnover rate cause reality to crash and need to be updated or rebooted?

>> No.55388129

Restart y/n

>> No.55388495

Probably. The system is not perfect, and there is finite space in the realms where souls are piling up infinitely.

>> No.55388652

I think updated is more likely. Maigo-no-musha was made to place all those souls with completely thwarted destinies from the War of Spirits, so tptb would probably just add another Meido and find a few Fortunes to run coffee for Emma-O and the Lords of death.

>> No.55390275

>Yasuki pirate?
How about a Yasuki trained as a Yoritomo Bushi?

Could he have been sent to Mantis Isle to train as a sailor by his family as a political favor?

I know Hida can but could Yasuki have the Blood of Osano-wo?

>> No.55390432

By "modern" Rokugan, literally anyone could theoretically have it. There's a lot of marriage going around in the nearly/more than 1000 years between Osano-wo's time and "modern" times.

>> No.55391084

I wonder what Battle Hymns in Rokugan would be like.

>> No.55391360

im brainstorming a game about a subtle unmaking of rokugan's history. not literal but symbolic by the nothing to gain power.

exemples: the players meet a kitsu bushi who says his mom, a soden senzo got pregnant from ryoshun.

the boar clan is officially remade.

an old record of imperial lineage is found when the naga reawaken. this cause trouble because some want a descendant of hantei on the throne.

a massive population of ratling return to rokugan from far from the other side of the shadowlands to recolonize the shadowland.

this idea of setting is made from an alternate heroes of rokugan setting. the nothing was freed after completly taking over and killing the shadow dragon.

another issue in the game is that with the rising but subtle attacks of the shadow, crystal is missing more and more. stolen by mujina.

(some shugenja madmen are trying to create a crystal dragon to contain the shadow after it is defeated without realizing the are removing the primary weapon against the shadow)

>> No.55391378

taiko drums, lots of them

>> No.55391389

Is a Yasuki being trained as a Yoritomo unheard of? Any in lore examples?

I know Hiruma train with Shinjo and that the Unicorn open their dojo for the other Clans, though they get treated harshly by the sensei. Any examples of Mantis taking in other clan members or how they are treated?

>> No.55391476

All the schools that aren't secret or for very, very clan specific things (Like the Shosuro Infiltators, or the Kuni Witch Hunters) take exchange students. Most child hostages are trained in their host's school. Some parents who are married out of their clan retain enough ties that they can send a kid to their home school.

Also, I don't think the Shinjo opened their dojo to literally everyone. They supported the Hiruma to help them design their own scout school, and gave them the space, resources, and like-minded teachers to develop it, but I don't think they actually opened their own school up.

>> No.55391908


Not a single one replied until Misaki's eyes finally rested on Jiaying. "I'm guessing it must've been one of your past lives carrying over some bad kharma. Everybody, be careful. The tricksters are rarely malicious, but if they kill one of you, they'll just consider it part of the prank." Everybody took good care in following Misaki's exact steps after that.

It did not take long until the group reached a large lake blocking their way. Misaki motioned towards the massive lily pads spread out across it, then started leaping from one to another. "Only step on those I have stepped on. You don't want to fall into this water." Yoshimitsu was the first to follow, joined quickly by Taichi. Jiaying hopped next on a lily pad followed by Kaito, and Kahoku as the last one. Fortunately, most of the lily pads were close enough together that going from one to another proved simple enough.

However, some were a bit more tricky to jump to. After one such more precarious jump, Jiaying almost slipped, seemingly losing his balance. She would've been safe, were it not for the somewhat scaly hand that emerge from the water, grabbing her ankle, and dragging her down into the depths. Before anyone in front could even react, Kaito had sprung down into the water after her.

What he saw were three Kappa slowly dragging the struggling tattooed monk down further into the lake.

>> No.55391977

but where do I go for L5R ERP games?

>> No.55392110


>> No.55392441

I think it was in the way of the unicorn or secrets of the unicorn but it didn't specifiy. It just says the Unicorn welcome other clan to the dojo, though if they say one bad thing or talk down to the unicorn or their ways, they are asked to leave and never return.

>> No.55392584

What so you can only be a ransom child to go to another clan's school?

>> No.55392657

Being in the dojo and being in the School are two very different things. Many dojo take students from other clans. There are even clan-agnostic dojo that just teach skills (Often just kenjutsu or other weapon skills).

>> No.55392691

No? Kids are ransomed off to seal deals and treaties. Especially peace treaties. They're treated like guests or part of their foster family, but their lives are forfeit if the deal is broken.
Going to another Clan's school requires that you are either a hostage, or your training is part of a deal. The deal could be as simple as "You train one, we train one" or as complicated as any other agreement.

>> No.55392768

What if I want to run a court game where three players are scorpion sluts ruining everyone's marriages including their own?

>> No.55392911

F-List again, most of the L5R profiles I've seen are various flavors of Scorpion sluts.

>> No.55392948

Dojo and schools are different things?!

>> No.55393001

Yep. Schools are the collection of Techniques, skills, and in some ways, culture. The curriculum if you will. Dojo are just the physical campuses. A school can have many dojo all across the clan's territory and sometimes even beyond, and a dojo can have students and sensei of two or three different schools (As long as those schools are all friendly and in the same clan, of course). In older editions, attending a more prestigious dojo would get you bonuses.

>> No.55393132

Wow, that makes sense. Thanks anon!

It's like colleges in real life. You got the main campus but smaller universities in other cities but are still considered part of the university family and still have the name but they just slap the "at city's name" at the end.

>> No.55393284

It's how the Crane keep their cultural edge. Because of the fame of their Schools, their sensei and tutors are highly sought after. You don't have to be a Kakita-trained musician to be trained in music by a Kakita, if that makes sense.

>> No.55393324


While Jiaying was struggling against the three kappa, Kaito noticed that two of the trickster spirits were darker than the third. Forming a mudra with his hands, he made the brighter kappa endure a Rebuke of the Heavens. The spirit thus distracted, it loosened its grip on the hand it was trying to hold on to, only to have it punch the kappa straight in the jaw. No longer having any fun, the trickster let go and swam back down into the depths. The other two darker kappa dissipated; illusions the trickster had tried to use. Kaito swam down to Jiaying, both starting to struggle holding their breaths.

A glimpse of what looked like a fishhook caught Kaito's eye; he grabbed Jiaying, grasped for what he had seen, and caught the fishing line. Moments later, Taichi was pulling them up out of the water: it had been his fishing line that helped saved them from a dreadful fate.

Before long, the group started moving again, Kaito still trying to twist the water out of his beard like a sponge. Leaving the lake behind, they entered a forest, open and inviting. Little lights were dancing here and there, as though beckoning the people travelling through. Misaki warned everyone not to follow those lights, lest we get lost in these woods, and to keep closely behind her..

None spent many thoughts to the warning as suddenly, darkness enveloped the 15 samurai following Misaki. Kaito noticed how identical the 3 Jiaying in front of him were, and the Kaito left of him agreed, though the Kaito to his right expessed some doubt. Kaito thanked the one who agreed for his politeness, and all three remarked how this was a rather pleasant surprise.

>> No.55393465

>A child is always considered to be of the highest caste among the parents.
Only if that parent consents. There are plenty of samurai with bastard peasant children, and not all of those are samurai or ronin.

>> No.55394211

To be more specific, a father can deny any child as his. People are always at the birth, though, so the mother can't say "this kid isn't mine" even if she's the higher ranked of the two.

>> No.55394258

what happens if she fucks up and screws a hunky peasant?

>> No.55394284

She better get married quick-like or booze up her official husband and praise his sake-dick stamina next morning.

>> No.55394324

I mean, she can say she slept with whoever she wants, and it would be a good political move for the "father", he might even agree to the lie. She can also just not say anything about it. The kid might get made a ronin if her family are especially upset about it, but without evidence or witness testimony, there's no way to even say that she slept with a peasant in a way that would stick.

>> No.55394327

Kaito enjoys the company of Kaito.

>> No.55395195

A samurai can always provide testimony on a matter. They don't even need to have been present for the event. If no one of higher status provides testimony that overrides, and no one of equal/close to equal status contests the testimony, then it is officially the truth.

>> No.55395451

Are you saying that the mother can declare "this is not my child" even when half a dozen or more people watched her pop the thing out, including priests of the kami and her direct relatives? What are you arguing, exactly?

>> No.55395518

trickster spirits, man. sometimes their pranks go deep

>> No.55395588

No, look. A woman is pregnant for nine months, and visibly pregnant for a large portion of that. There are shugenja at the birth specifically to ensure spirits don't fuck things up. There are medical practitioners and family members, sometimes even family friends. You might, *might*, be able to get away with "that's not my baby", but the immediate fallout would be everyone present looking for the child that *is* yours and which is somehow missing-- a child which will never be found, because you're lying. That play is almost certainly worse than just having the damn bastard.

If a woman wants to disavow her child, she has to plan it from day one so she can go into seclusion before any evidence of her pregnancy becomes visible, and she has to find someone to help her give birth who will keep her secret, and she has to worry about the spiritual shenanigans that shugenjas and ritual normally prevent in family-attended births. If a man wants to disavow his kid, he can do it with zero forethought the day of the birth, and be instantly be believed in public perception.

>> No.55395622

You don't do it at the fucking birthing, you wait a few weeks and say a damn forest spirit switched your baby with some kind of shapeshifter and you tell everyone its going back into the woods, where it dies.

>> No.55395739

That seems like a bad idea. Even if you leave your kid in the woods to die before telling anyone about your "suspicions", you're still ostensibly missing a valid samurai child. What's to stop your family from calling in a shugenja to try to get them back, especially since kids are an important resource for your Family and Clan? Are you going to try to stop them, when you should reasonably be distraught over your "real" child being missing? It seems like the kind of thing that would piss off your honoured ancestors, too.

If you want to be baby-free, the better option is to abort it early than to kill it weeks after birth; it's not like it's hard to find a midwife with the right herbal concoction, and you can silence a peasant afterwards any number of ways.

>> No.55395957

Creating pretence to hide from the public spotlight for the majority of the pregnancy and hiding the event of the birth from wider knowledge is possible.

If no witness publicly states that the mother was pregnant and gave birth, for whatever reason -including but not limited to being asked and/or told so by the birth mother- then it's not her baby.

>the immediate fallout would be everyone present looking for the child that *is* yours and which is somehow missing
Only if the pregnancy was public knowledge, and you were stupid enough to make the birth known and then pretend that specific child is not yours. But that's stupid. You don't get to looking obviously pregnant, pump out a sprog, and then decide you want to hide the truth.

Start lying earlier. Go into religious seclusion. Don't take the baby with you when you leave.

>> No.55396066

That course of action is exactly what the second half of the post you're quoting says to do. And it does work if a woman doesn't want to deal with having a kid.

But to compare it to what the man can do is to compare apples and oranges. The woman gets away with it by ensuring the public never knows there was a child at all. The man simply says that the child that the public knows exists is not his. One is an involved undertaking, and the other trivial to execute.

>> No.55396207


Haven't played since 2e. My favorite character was a Crab Bushi that got tired of the Crab trying to kill evil with a tetsubo, so he became a tattooed monk with the dragon clan. He was a classic big mclarge huge crab guy with 5 str, etc.

He was a gentle giant, always trying to overcome evil with words and faith.

>> No.55396234

I know that if you can find the High House of Light, the Togashi will take you, but how does it work on the leaving end? Did you tell your Crab superiors where you were going, or did you just vanish?

>> No.55396434


I had become a ronin somehow before I ascended the mountain. I can't remember exactly what happened in the campaign that ronin'd me, but the GM pulled some heavy handed "you are all ronin now!" plot device early on.

My other two characters in L5R were an ungodly beautiful scorpion girl (took every attractiveness perk available) who was a Bushi that everyone suspected of being a ninja. She wore a perfectly blank porcelain mask. Her backstory was that she was actually a fox clan super wife in training, but her family was killed by rival scorpion merchants and she was forced to work in a "geisha" whorehouse. The mistresses realized that my unearthly beauty meant she should keep me a virgin to sell off later and that I'd make her a fortune running the Mahjong tables instead of "working in the back." None of the other players ever learned that I actually was a ninja, I had just taken the first rank of the scorpion Bushi school so I could cover...

>> No.55396465


... and a mega poor lion Bushi that took the "horrible equipment" flaw or whatever it was called. He was a total bon vivant, enthusiastic guy whose light armor was literally just woven straw and he used a chipped nagamaki because it was the only Bushi weapon his family had.

>> No.55396538
File: 774 KB, 1279x602, the_last_iron_sword__by_chasingartwork-d8vfcig.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

so I'm running a pre-Fall of the Kami campaign, and made some tables for generating tribes of proto-Rokugani, that the PCs and the Kami will shape into the Great Clans. Is that something people would be interested in me dumping?

>> No.55396664

Sounds pretty neat. Let's see 'em!

>> No.55396709

Where does the Tribe live? 1d10
1 The Jagged Northern Mountains (Phoenix Heritage)
2 The Wind-Swept Northern plains (Unicorn Heritage)
3 The Harsh Northern Mountains (Dragon Heritage)
4 The Lightning-Struck Coast (Mantis Heritage)
5 The Sunlit Central Plains (Lion Heritage)
6 The Twisting Valleys of the West (Scorpion Heritage)
7 The Fruitful Eastern Forests (Crane Heritage)
8 The Harsh Southern Hills (Crab Heritage)
9 The Hidden Garden (Minor Clan Heritage)
0 The Horizon (Nomadic Heritage)

How does the Tribe live? 1d10
1 Your Tribe knows you must strike swiftly to bring down the prey. (Agility)
2 Your Tribe learns quickly. The world changes, and you will control that change. (Intelligence)
3 Your Tribe stands above the rest, and the blood of your prey adorns your weapons. (Strength)
4 Your Tribe watches the winds, listens to the earth, and is always ready for what comes. (Perception)
5 Your Tribe is careful. You make few enemies, and never those you cannot beat. (Awareness)
6 Your Tribe always stays one step ahead of Death. (Reflexes)
7 Your Tribe has always survived. You always will. (Stamina)
8 Your Tribe shouts their challenge to the world. Your voice will echo through history, forever. (Willpower)
9 Your Tribe is varied, each member with their own part to play, yet you move as one. (Any one)
0 Your Tribe has attained Balance. (Void)

>> No.55396718


How many are the Tribe? 1d10
1-2 Dying tribe
Soon no one will be left to pass on the lore of your people. Already those who still live seek out other tribes, and are forgotten.
3-5 Small tribe
You are a true family, a tight-knit group, wary of outsiders.
6-8 Sizable tribe
You can defend against most threats. Your many fires can be seen from across the valley.
9 Massive tribe
Safety in numbers. Winter may prove difficult, with so many...
0 Clan
Already many flock to your banner. The name of your tribe is known far and wide.

How Long ago was it formed? 1d10
1-2 The Dawn
Your people trace their lineage back to the first humans, born of jade and obsidian.
3-5 The Morning
Your people lived among the Ancient Races, and weathered the storm of their passing.
6-8 The Noon
Your people claimed Rokugan as their own, and used the ruins to build new homes.
9-0 The Evening
Your people gather, even as the stars fall from the sky.

>> No.55396728


What does the tribe have?
1 Weapons
Your tribe has more advanced weapons than their neighbors, whether due to abundant iron or a particularly militant culture.
2 Domesticated Animals
Your people have tamed the beasts of the wild. 1d10: 1-2 Horses, 3-4 Dogs, 5-6 Oxen, 7-8 Falcons, 9 Lions, 0 Something Different
3 Defenses (reroll if nomadic)
Few would dare to attack your people, save the foolish and desperate. 1d10: 1-3 Natural Environment, 4-5 Walls, 6-7 Castle, 8-9 Warriors, 0 a Champion
4 History
There are secrets known only to your people. Legends, Monsters, Gods, things others fear, your storytellers know their origins, and their weaknesses.
5 Industry
Perhaps your people make the finest pottery in the world. Perhaps textiles. Perhaps shoes. Whatever your people have dedicated themselves to, they excel.
6 Instinct
While other tribes grow soft and weak, you remember that you are animals, and that you belong on the top of the food chain.
7 Wealth
Your people are not content to be self-sufficient, expanding their influence to other tribes with trade and contracts.
8 Agriculture (reroll if nomadic)
Some tribes will go hungry when Winter arrives. Not yours.
9 Magic
Your Shaman is powerful. Perhaps you have more than one. Powerful charms keep your people safe.
0 Law
Your people have discipline. Your unity makes you more than a match for any foe.

What do they eat?
The basis of your tribe's diet
1-3 Hunters
4-5 Gatherers
6-7 Fishers
8-0 Farmers

>> No.55396740

now the fun stuff.
What do they wear?
1 none
2 One-piece robe(skip pants table)
3-4 Kimono
5-6 Coat/Haori
7-8 Mandarin shirts
9 drapery
0 vests

1 none
2-4 Hakima
5-7 Square pants
8-9 gathered pants
0 tied skirt

1-4 sandals
5-6 moccasins
7-8 boots
9-0 toesocks

Loadbearing Accessories
1-6 sashes
7-9 bags
0 pockets

Fashionable Accessories

1-2 headbands
3-4 pointy hats
5-6 broad hats
7 fancy hats
8-9 scarves
0 turbans

1-2 sashes
3 armwraps/legwraps
4-5 cloaks
6 rings/bracelets
7 tattoos
8 facepaint/woad
9-0 Netsuke

1 tiny braids
2 big braids
3 don't care
4 bandanna
5 long and decorated
6-7 efficient
8-9 topknot
0 dyed

1-3 ring and pin
4-6 hook and eye
7-9 cords
0 however

1 Beads
2 Geometric Applique
3 Pictoral Applique
4 Geometric Embroidery
5 Pictoral Embroidery
6 Paint
7 Smocking
8 Fringe
9 Contrast
0 Shibori (Tiedye)

If Gatherers: Mulberry fibre, layered
If farmers: 1-4 linen, flax 5-7 cotton, labor-intensive, 8-0 silk
If hunters: hides/fur
If fishers: reeds/straw/whale intestine/sharkhide

>> No.55396758

and lastly.
Who do you worship?
1-2 Ancestors
3-4 Death
5-6 Kami
7-8 King
9-0 Old Gods

I'm pretty happy with them. Any additions you guys think I should make?

>> No.55396964

It's interesting, but I think you've made the tribes more primitive they they should be. Early Rokugan is a late iron age civilisation-- the Tribe of Isawa already had steel at the time, even.

>> No.55396967

Tangential, but can I ask you to post this in the OSR general later? They're suckers for this kind of table generators.

>> No.55397056

>I know that if you can find the High House of Light, the Togashi will take you
It's possible, but you will have to do more than just find your way there to join the order.

>> No.55397114

Yeah, I was imagining iron age too. How are they too primitive? I tried to base everything on the Yayoi and Kofun eras of Japan, with some Ainu stuff thrown in for good measure
I'll try, but feel free to steal it.

>> No.55397119

>the Tribe of Isawa already had steel
The tribe of Isawa aren't really a good example, considering Isawa was from the City Of Gold.

>Much to Temoru's shock, the symbol adorning the City of Gold was not the chop of Isawa as he had believed. Instead, the information he uncovered there indicated that Isawa may have been born within the city and adopted its symbol as his own when he left for Rokugan.

>> No.55397210

To start with, you can roll for them to be naked... and then still have pockets.

But more seriously, domesticated animals shouldn't be unusual, and neither should agriculture-- not large scale, perhaps, but certainly present enough not to be an option exclusive to stuff like having oxes or dogs

>> No.55397404

cool. Yeah, I'll have to make some of those options better and assume a basic level of tech.
>naked with pockets
yeah. oversight on my part that you can roll 1 twice in a row and have that happen.

>> No.55397720

>I'll have to make some of those options better and assume a basic level of tech.
Just don't take it too far. Isawa might have brought steel, but it took Kaiu's arrival before they started making semi-decent blades, and another 400 years before the hard/soft smithing techniques to produce katana were invented by the Agasha.

>> No.55397730

Not that guy but you should post some, I'm curious.

>> No.55398390
File: 252 KB, 600x450, Miya_Anzai.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

Only good can come out of a Hida marrying a Miya. Prove me wrong.

Protip: you can't.

>> No.55398860

>Prove me wrong.
Why? Prove nothing better can come out of the Miya marrying someone else.

>> No.55398895

>FFG resets the plot to pre-coup
>No Mantis as a great clan, possibly could end up not happening
>No Spider as a great clan, it'll be decades before they even get to the plotline where that becomes a possibility.

BASED FFG. The selloff was the best thing to ever happen to the IP.

>> No.55399033

You're assuming events happen with the same speed and order as before. They're already turning nu-Shahai into an imperial hostage, so there's a possibility nu-Daigotsu isn't as far off as some think.

>> No.55399100

Daigotsu and Shahai were both around for a VERY long time before the Spider were ever even an idea.

>> No.55399151

An L5R thread? What miracle is this?

Dragon clan best clan.

>> No.55399287

You know FFG is doing stuff with it, right?

>> No.55399355

I wonder if they'll do their own rpg or just continue with current rules. Either way I want to play a game.

>> No.55399513

There's a pretty good chance they'll adapt it to their genericized version of the FFG Star Wars rules.

Now I may be in the minority here, but while I love R&K and would miss it dearly, I actually think a properly adapted version of those rules would legitimately work very well for the kind of game L5R should be Certainly it'll be infinitely better than that unspeakably bad abomination that was d20 Rokugan

>> No.55400187

The 400 years thing is questionable. Kakita, the mortal from the dawn of the empire, claims to have made the first katana, and Kaiu, also a mortal from the dawn, is quoted in multiple places as having jumped from straight blades to curved katana-style ones soon after the first war.

>> No.55400312

Kakita lived the dream

>> No.55400391
File: 151 KB, 427x600, showimage[1].jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

>The 400 years thing is questionable
Kakita forging a perfect katana is more questionable. Rokugan is deliberately revisionist, but that works in covering things up and not being entirely precise about the nature of things that were compared to things that are.

>> No.55400413
File: 455 KB, 711x711, L5Rsmiths.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

Kaiu was blatantly awesome, but his greatest accomplishment to be passed on was his journals. Everything else left his contemporaries scratching their heads, but when his journals were discovered centuries later, people could start to properly learn from them again.

>> No.55400433
File: 378 KB, 524x742, AgashaSteel.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

Whatever the other smiths were doing to forge swords at the dawn of the empire with their crappy steel, the Agasha perfected it later on.

>> No.55400469

To be fair, Kakita was trained by a Kenku, who taught him swordsmithing, so the katana might just be an original Kenku design that Kakita got to use, and then it takes a long time for anyone else to rediscover the technique again. It's also possible the historians or bards made it up retroactively that he made a katana and it never happened.
>fuggs a literal godess

>> No.55401715

A question, do you guys think it makes sense for the unicorn being so un-assimilated despite two hundred years having passed at the beginning of 1st edition, and towards the end of the old timeline, three hundred years? It seems like their foreigness would make more sense if it happened only two or three generations ago at the most

>> No.55402043

The Moto are the most to blame, since they keep importing more of them fresh from the Sands. The other families were mostly just integrated with unique customs. It's the Moto who are blatantly foreign. Didn't help that they took over the clan.

>> No.55402059

remove moto
venerate shinjo

>> No.55402213

If this was played as straight as in the Scorpion in story screen cap in >>55359712 then it might lead to an interesting story. Through I'm left wondering what sort of situation would come up where it was decided one of the that one of the plans for dealing with it involved marrying off a number of clan members with orders to ruin several marriages, including their own.

>> No.55403202

That's not how hard and soft steel works. Hard steel takes forever to sharpen, and then remains sharp forever, but risks being brittle. Sharp steel takes and edge very fast, but dulls fast as well, with the virtue of being flexible, so your sword doesn't break when it can instead flex.

>> No.55403293

The motos only get reinforced with the last tribes arriving with Shinjo though, there was no continual flow of tribes as far as i know, just went over the wiki and way of the unicorn. That would have been a very good explanation though.

>> No.55403322

>It's also possible the historians or bards made it up retroactively that he made a katana and it never happened.
I prefer this, to be honest. One of the headcanon changes I make is that all the ancient clan swords are tsurugi instead of katana (with the pointed exception of the Crab, but no one is going to tell them to their face that the sword they claim as their ancestral heirloom couldn't have been produced until centuries after the birth of the Empire). Only the Lion keep any serious training with tsurugi, however, and there's still those who think katana are overly fancy crap and carry their grandfather's tachi instead (or at least they have katana mounted tachi-style)

There's so many cool Japanese swords, it's a shame to leave them aside.

>> No.55403351

Well, on a side note, I always found it interesting that the hantei ancestral blade was a no-dachi. Also, looked up tsurugi, looks neat.

>> No.55403377

can't cut the moon open with just a dinky katana. alternatively its a reference to how hantei had the biggest dick, which is why akodo resigned in shame.

>> No.55403401

It's definitely a reference to Kusanagi-no-Tsurugi, one of the three Imperial Treasures.

>> No.55403492

The kami's swords were brought from heaven, and I think they're supposed to have been katana; the famous mortal smiths are famous for bringing mortal smithing up to a near divine level and replicating those blades.

Other early figures should definitely not have katanas, though-- ancient swords from guys like Hiruma or Matsu or pre-kenku Kakita. But I don't think they should all be tsurugi; Mirumoto was already using his daisho technique when the Kami fell, so clearly people had access to paired blades like a tachi and kodachi. Maybe not universally, but certainly not unheard of.

Although a lot of people in the period eschewed swords altogether, preferring the spear and bow, so other "ancestral swords" could easily be fabrications later attributed to people like Bayushi Nissho.

>> No.55403756

That actually makes a lot of sense, thanks.

>> No.55404594

Hiruma did have an old style straight sword that Kaiu made for him before the fall of the kami, and Kaiu was constantly criticizing it and bugging Hiruma to let him replace it. Then Hiruma lost it in the shadowlands and Kaiu jumped on the chance to make him carry a proper curved sword.

>> No.55405712

Got a bit busier than expected lately, and still gonna be a bit busy, gonna continue in the next thread since we reached bump limit, maybe even create the thread if no one else does before i've got time to write again

Just so that the story on here is as finished as at the table

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