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[ERROR] No.55322346 [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

"Alan Bligh was weak!" ADBaddon the Despoiler 2k17

Previous thread >>55272764

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>Official HH 7th Edition Errata (not updated since January 2016)
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>30k TACTICA & TIPS
What to include in a HH list, how to format it, what makes each legion special (crunch), tactics, Tutorials for Heresy-era minis and more
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>/HHG/'s Legion demographics
http://www.strawpoll.me/10558764

>/HHG/'s allegiances
www.strawpoll.me/10663447

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>NEW Mega Folder
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>> No.55322358

>> No.55322376

>> No.55322395

>> No.55322418

>>55322376
Posted the wrong one.

>> No.55322446 [DELETED] 

I guess all the people claiming "terminator armour" on Deathshrouds was not a copy-pasted mistake from the old book.

>> No.55322470

I guess all the people claiming "terminator armour" on Deathshrouds was not a copy-pasted mistake from the old book were right.

>> No.55322476

>>55322446
>models made years after the event for a different game rectify the mistake
Give it a rest.

>> No.55322514

>>55322476
So... 40k and 30k exist in different realities, one where Deathshrouds are in Tartaros and another where they are in Cataphractii?

>> No.55322522

>>55322418
How bloody are you gonna do his feet? considering he's gonna be wading through a shit load of gore.

>> No.55322664

>>55322514
No but the games use different rules and you can't use one games rules in the other.

>> No.55322776

>>55322664
So?

>> No.55322878

>>55322358
I think this pic has been reposted so much that "Very recently" is no longer accurate. good job though

>>55322470
Those models look great. Why would you want to put Deathshroud in Cataphractii anyway? Don't you want to sweeping advance?

>> No.55323032

>>55322878
I rarely take new images and I needed to bump the thread. Thanks however.

>> No.55323215

>>55322878
>Why would you want to put Deathshroud in Cataphractii anyway?

That you have to ask GW about.

>> No.55323339

>>55322878
>Why would you want to put Deathshroud in Cataphractii anyway?
For the 4++? Just a thought.

>> No.55323689

>>55322878
>Why would you want to put Deathshroud in Cataphractii anyway?

Well, I got grave wardens and regular terminators in cataphractii, so having my deathshrouds in cataphractii as well wouldn't hurt. Just suck that I already made my tartaros praetor and I sort of don't want to take him apart now...

>> No.55324136

I'm working on an Emperor's Children Maru Skara list (Fulgrim combat resolution shenanigans) and was wondering what I should use for anti-vehicle. The main four ideas I had were
>Use 2 or 3 Sicarans and hope that I either get lucky or can afford to ignore any land raiders or spartans.
>Use a talon of cortus contemptors to assault enemy tanks
>Multiple small squads of outriders with meltabombs assault tanks and transports turn 2
>Say fuck it, give my vets meltabombs and get another squad of vets and maybe either some more tacticals or a unit of bikers kitted out for melee
Right now my basic list is
>Fulgrim
>3 Champions with terminator armour and phoenix spears (I know it isn't efficient but I like it for the theme of the elite of the Phoenix Guard)
>6 Phoenix Guards
>40 tactical marines divided into two squads
>20 Veterans with some amount of power swords
I can have three elites and/or fast attack units outflank on whatever turn I want and don't inherently need any of my current units to be the outflanking units

>> No.55324850

>>55322346
Fuck previous thread died with 217 posts, not even bump limit.
HHG is truly dead :(.

>> No.55324969

>>55324850
I mean you could start topics of debate or add content instead of complaining about /hhg/ being dead. You know, post a list, post some WIP, talk about tactics, fluff, etc. Or you could make one post about how /hhg/ is dead.

>> No.55325309

>>55324969
Ok
What do you think is true identity of AK?
Amendera Kendel?

>> No.55325335

>>55325309
Avtomat Kalashnikova.

>> No.55325407

>>55324969
HHG is dead. And I don't see why we're bothering to keep this general alive.

>> No.55325660

>that moment the /hhg/ has become the board equivalent of 40k Eldar, lamenting and bickering over the dying of their game

>> No.55325713

>>55324850
>>55324969
>>55325407

Well then, maybe I can help.

I really like the models for Horus Heresy, and despite having barely known 7th edition before the switch to 8th, I'm interested in starting an army/legion as a side project and finding or helping create a community for it.
So for why not discuss how to help people get interested in the game? Maybe summarize the differences between armies and legions for new players, maybe ways to do the game at a more 40k like scale while still being good, ways to convert 40k models to fit better.
Got a whole thread and community, have to be able to find something you all can discuss that isn't ADB or Inferno.

>> No.55326036

>>55325407

>> No.55326065

>>55322470
Might buy these to use for deathshroud, have to remove most of the tentacles however.

>> No.55326092

>>55322358

>> No.55326525

>>55325713
Summing up the armies I play or play against a lot
>Emperor's Children: Strike hard, strike fast, and pray to Slaanesh that they kill their opponent in the first turn of an assault. They are generally an assault unit that has a lot of advantages to combat resolution and reserves timing. If you want to pull off a flawless victory this is the legion to try, although if you fail you will probably get raped horribly.
>World Eaters: Just like the EC except you should run on the assumption that you will take losses. They aren't as mobile with as many reserve shenanigans as the EC but they are more survivable and hit hard, against guard style armies they are the hardest hitting army by far.
>Alpha Legion: Your army has access to a ton of special rules such as infiltrate and scouts which makes them extremely flexible, especially when combined with veterans' special rules.
>Iron Hands: Their tanks can buy autosimulcra and their infantry count enemy shooting a -1 strength making them essentially T 5 when being shot at. Seriously these guys are annoying to shoot at.
>Mechanicum Cybernetica: Lots of big scary monstrous creature robots with big guns or bit fists to punch things.
>Mechanicum Ordo Reductor: Crappy overpriced infantry but they can take 4 heavy support and 2 lord of war choices making them THE army of massive war machines and artillery.
>Imperial Militia (+1S, +1T, -1I): A massive horde of shitty space marines in armour worse than flak armour. Also their Ogryn are S/T 6 and the guy who plays this army gives them power mauls making them strength 8.
>Solar Auxilia: A lot of volkite weapons, also BS 5 tanks that can pump out 5 Str 7 and 6 Str 6 shots

>> No.55326955

>>55325713
Luna wolves here (yeah I know sons of Horus but prefer Luna wolves colors).

When pulled off correctly they're one of the best, when not they are quite average. Great terminators, great special rules.

Basically the gist is this: surprise, speed, aggression. Never forget those three things and you'll do better than worse.

Death dealers makes them effectively BS 5 at 12ish inches. This makes specia weapons very powerful up close. Merciless fighters means you'll be getting a lot of extra attacks in.

I really dig using a somewhat expensive reaver squad with jump packs, volkite chargers, and chain axes. Basically an insane number of st5 shots and attacks. I use them to hunt thallax, ursarax, vorax, scyllax, vanilla marine squads and support squads.

Make sure whatever your pointing you guys at they can over power. If it's "even" or a tough fight you're sending your guys into, don't do it. It will be a waste. You want to bully your opponent like a night lord but with better shooting better flexibility and better reserves.

>> No.55327178

Why do so few people go full beakie force? Is Mk VI not as popular at it once seemed?

>> No.55327214

>>55327178
In HH setting only raven guard and alpha legion had them.

>> No.55327272

>>55327214
BS. There is art of Iron Warriors and blood angels using MK VI.

>> No.55327371

>>55327272
I'm just going by what the forgeworld books say. A lot of players try to keep their army thematic and "historically accurate" and therefore don't typically include mkvi unless they're raven guard or alpha legion.

>> No.55327385

>>55326525
Nice. Dare I assume you're the Emperor's Children?
I ask for general overviews because sometimes you see just the individual rules and then don't necessarily see how they tie together into a playstyle. At least I do.
>>55326955
SoH/Luna Wolves were one of the forces I considered, how viable is it going with loads of Volkite? And do Tartaros Terminators work well with them?
>>55327178
I quite like MkVI, I would probably use a few suits for well equipped Vets or something, maybe some assaults.

>> No.55328043

>>55327385
They're okay at running volkite. The half range bs5 means you'll get a crap ton of hits but ails means you have to be CLOSE and ready to assault.

I think Tartaros could be quite good. I haven't used them but their relative speed as terminators could make them quite good up close.

Veterans and reavers are the soh bread and honey.

Very powerful pride of the legion org chart.

>> No.55329468

>>55327178
>talks mkvi
>posts mkv

a shit, A SHIT!!

>> No.55329742

>>55327214
>>55327272
>>55327371

Imperial Fists also obtained huge portions of MKVI after raiding the Mars armories, but are only really known for fielding MKVII en masse at the Siege of Terra.

>> No.55330004

Finally got around to painting my Caladius' Heavy Arachnus Blaze Cannon turrets so I could switch up my options.

Happy to be done with them since they were sitting on my desk for so long.

>> No.55330577

>>55327385
>Nice. Dare I assume you're the Emperor's Children?
EC and Solar Auxilia. Allied they provide a good hammer and anvil with the enemy breaking against the auxilia and attacked from the flanks by the EC.

However IMO the best way for you to choose a legion is to tell us what interests you the most (eg. tactics style, aesthetics, or fluff) and tell us what you would like (eg. fast and hard hitting or slow and nigh impossible to break for tactics). Also if you already have a 40k army you could always try test games with different rules. If you have Imperial Guard you can easily enough port them directly into 30k as Imperial Militia, or using some count as try out Solar Auxilia rules. If you have a space marine army you could field a practice army by reshuffling some squads (eg. combine two tactical squads and remove all special and heavy weapons and you have a 20ish man tactical blob).

So since SoH interest you if you have a 30k community in your area or even if a friend who is also interested you can play a game where your 40k Lamenters or whatever count as 30k SoH. If after a game or two you realize you don't like SoH and want to try them as say Imperial Fists just count them as Imperial Fists. One of the nice things about 30k is because the only factions are Guard, Guard +, Marines, Marines+, and Mechanicum, if you have a guard or any space marine army you can test out the game without proxying too much.

>> No.55330597

>>55327371
>I'm just going by what the forgeworld books say.

At the onset of the Heresy a ton of the suit and their production materials were evacuated from Mars to Terra, where production and development continued, culminating in the MkVII by the end of the Heresy. Alphas also evacuated some suits from Mars and through them some of the traitors got their hands on them.

There is nothing saying only RG and Alphas used them.

>> No.55330797

Might as well post my experimental Fulgrim bomb list

Emperor's Children 2500 Points
The Maru Skara
HQ
3x Champion: 85
>Tartaros Terminator Armour
>Phoenix Spear
>Sonic Shrieker
130*3=390 Points
_________________________
Elites
6 Phoenix Guards
>Grenade Harness
>Sonic Shriekers
330 Points

2x 10 Veterans (Weapon Masters)
>2 Heavy Chainswords
>5 Power Swords
220*2=440 Points
_________________________
Troops
20 Tactical Marines: 225 Points
>Swap bolters for chainswords

20 Tactical Marines: 225 Points
>Swap bolters for chainswords
_________________________
Fast Attack
2x 6 Outriders
>Sergeant
>3 Power Swords
>Meltabombs
255*2=510 Points
_________________________
Lord of War
Fulgrim: 380 Points

This is very much a test list since I rarely field death stars at this point level and never this big (almost half my points). Basic strategy is outriders and tacticals start on the table with everything else in reserve, Phoenix Guard is joined by the three champions and Fulgrim. Basic idea is everything rushes up the table turn 1, turn 2 the Fulgrim bomb and the vets outflank. Fulgrim gives +2 to combat resolution and being close to the phoenic guard increases that by +1 meaning the combined Fulgrim bomb should be able to inflict about 6 wounds on WS 5 3++ terminators on the turn they charge, combined with the +3 to combat resolution means they should be able to win the combat and break the terminators, and probably sweep them. The vets and outriders should likewise be able to deal with any 3+ units they encounter as long as they get the charge. My tactical marines should be able to deal with their counterparts outside of some exceptions even if they don't get the charge.

My main worry is that my only real anti-tank is my meltabomb outriders and if I am lucky with his attacks Fulgrim.

>> No.55330812

>>55329468
Thats clearly a beakie head with Mk V legs champ.

>> No.55331000

>>55330797
Ye, your anti tank is really weak. You should add a missile or lascannon team. Drop one unit of veterans maybe? Also, you should give your tac marine sergeant meltabombs.

>> No.55331041

>>55330577
What are UMs good at?
I'm all about having an even mix of tools on the field, all comers lists are my jam.

>> No.55331101

>>55331000
>You should add a missile or lascannon team
HWS are really overpriced. I was considering taking some real anti-tank but am unsure what would be better. My main three considerations are
>Cortus dreadnoughts with chainfists
>Sicaran battle tanks
>Sicaran venators
I would naturally lean towards the dreads since the list is already extremely melee oriented but I would prefer to be able to start killing tanks turn 1 if at all possible. Overall I think the sicaran battle tanks are better since they can provide some AA, are cheaper, and are better at killing light vehicles. Of course I always could go one battle tank one venator.

Since my outriders are already more expensive than my vets I think that I should probably drop a unit of outriders and maybe drop the heavy chainswords on the vets or something to free up some more points. If I drop both units of outriders I could buy three sicarans or more likely could buy two sicarans or a sicaran and a venator and give meltabombs to my tac sergeants and modify my veteran squads so I can have three vet squads with like 3 power swords each.

>> No.55331261

>>55331041
UM's basic rules focus more on cooperation than flexibility really, so if you have three units shooting at the same target they will do more damage than identical units from another army, the same is true of assaults. Their rite of war however gives you tactical flexibility during battle (as opposed to EC or Alpha Legion who give you options but they need to be selected before the battle). Their units don't have much in the way of a common theme but could often be considered knock offs of other legion units
Suzerains are your elites equivalents to palatine blades really, except while palatine blades hit really hard and die horribly in turn 2 of an assault Suzerains lack the same offensive capabilities of palatines but are always AP 2 and have an invul save. Overall they make a good unit it capture and hold objectives since they have implacable advance and charging them is an unpleasant proposition.

Locutarus are like templar brethren who give up WS 5 for jump packs (honestly a pretty good deal), and are pretty much 40k vanguard veterans with artificer armour. Overall a good unit but keep them away from elites with AP 2 weapons because any true elite units will kick their teeth in.

Fulmentarus are overpriced siege tyrants with BS 5 and more heavy weapon options. One thing to note the red book seems to imply (probably unintended) that the unit can all exchange their combi-bolters for combi-meltas for 5 points for the whole unit. So BS 5 combi-meltas for relatively cheap could make them worthwhile as a unit assuming that the assumed typo hasn't been FAQed somewhere.

As for wargear they are pretty standard, they can buy artificer armour that gives FnP and they have AP 2 power swords that wound on HIT rolls of 6. Despite all the talk of legatine axes being OP they are pretty run of the mill legion special weapons honestly certainly nothing compared to power glaives (which can be given to sergeants) and perdition blades.

>> No.55332008

>>55322470
>regular bodyguards
>more than two at any time
>more than 49 paces away from their Primarch
>they talk

REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

>> No.55333349

>>55330597
Look, I'm just trying to help answer the question and why players don't typically field mkvi. Because they were most commonly fielded by Raven guard and Alpha legion. Not because other legions didn't have examples.

>> No.55333372

So I'm thinking of starting a Word Bearers army with Betrayal at Calth for obvious reasons, but I'd like to jazz it up a bit with Chaos bitz. I was thinking of doing some themed squads of Terminators/Gal Vorbak and using the new 40k Nurgle Marines, assorted spare Tzeench bits and whatever Slaanesh stuff I can greenstuff up to make four squads of GV for each god. What would go well with that if I was to keep the symmetry going? Couple Vindicators and melee Dreadnoughts because I like the look of those, plus Tactical blobs. Feels like I should make some Chaotic apothecaries too.

>> No.55333377

>>55330597
Book 3, page 95.

Apparently at the time of istvaan the only legion listed as having units of mkvi (it was so new it wasn't even called mkvi yet) was the raven guard and the alpha legion.

>> No.55333795

>>55333349
>>55333377
>"The new armour, later dubbed 'Corvus' armour in honour of the Raven Guard, was placed into full scale production only a few months before the outbreak of Horus' rebellion"
-Book 3, pg. 95

>"Mark VI, which at that time was only just entering service across the Legions."
-Book 6, pg. 83

>"In the aftermath of the fall of Mars, during which the Imperial Fists were able to extricate stockpiles of the new Mark VI Legiones Astartes power armour, the Knights-Errant were equipped with the very finest examples of this class of armour"
-Book 6, pg. 212

And of course there's sources outside of FW.

>> No.55333929

>>55326955
It goes Speed Aggression Surprise. SAS.

>> No.55333986

>>55327371
This discussion has been had before. Forgeworld states that all legions have access to all marks. And mIII could be equipped with jump-packs

>> No.55333999

>>55333795
So contradictory evidence. Hence nobody wants to really commit to mkvi unless they're alpha legion or raven guard.

And just entering service across the legions probably meant not many deployed. Civil War breaks out early during production, I bet it interrupts production/distribution, again making it uncommon.

I'm not arguing it didn't exist in other legions. I'm just trying to explain why players are reluctant to field it if they're trying to keep their armies within a certain scope.

>> No.55334295

>>55333999
It's only contradictory if you take one throwaway line about Isstvan as gospel and ignore everything else.

I thought HH players were suppose to be old grognards who were really into the timeline and all that shit. Now it seems like they're all just kids who only know the FW books and are really carnac about them.

>> No.55334370

>>55334295
>the evidence I like is real while the evidence I don't like is throwaway

>> No.55334383

>>55334370
carnac/10

>> No.55334402

>>55334383
Solid counter point there.

>> No.55334422

>>55334295
>>55334370
>>55334383
>>55334402
Imagine if there was 2 Carnacs and they were have an argue.

>> No.55334443

>>55334402
>line line of fluff trumps everything else, even newer sources, so much that you can't even consider them
>not carnac

>> No.55334495

>>55333999
Emperor's Children 2500 Points
The Maru Skara
HQ
3x Champion: 85
>Tartaros Terminator Armour
>Phoenix Spear
>Sonic Shrieker
130*3=390 Points
_________________________
Elites
6 Phoenix Guards
>Grenade Harness
>Sonic Shriekers
330 Points

3x 10 Veterans (Weapon Masters)
>2 Power Swords
>Phoenix Spear
195*3=585 Points
_________________________
Troops
2x 20 Tactical Marines
>Meltabombs on Sergeant
>Swap bolters for chainswords
230*2=460 Points
_________________________
Heavy Support
Sicaran Venator: 190 Points

Sicaran Battle Tank: 165 Points
_________________________
Lord of War
Fulgrim: 380 Points

I've modified my list to give it more anti-tank and I feel like what I have is mostly adequate. Venator can kill heavy vehicles and more importantly keep stuff like super heavies from shooting my army while they charge up the table, the Sicaran should be able to deal with light vehicles and transports well enough and tactical sergeants and Fulgrim could act as anti-tank in a pinch and him or any of the champions could split off from their unit to take out a rhino or something weak like that.

Since I now have four units that I would like to outflank my thoughts were to leave one of the veteran squads on the table at the start and have it rush up the table. My other ideas were to start with Fulgrim and co. on the tabl and put all the vets in reserves or to just scrap a veterans squad, buy another sicaran and give my remaining vet squads more power weapons (I could give each squad five power swords).

As for Fulgrim's warlord trait my main considerations were Night Attacker, Princeps of Deceit, and Child of Terra. Paladin of glory while nifty is probably excessive considering I am already getting +2 to combat resolution army wide and +3 within 6" of Fulgrim's escorts and I don't see much threat of losing combats so horribly that I need +4 to win.

>> No.55334557

Anyone used regular speeders? I was thinking 3 with HBs and havoc launchers.

>> No.55334778

>>55334557
Sounds like a good idea, just don't use them in a pure infantry list or they will get shot down before they can actually do anything.

>> No.55336038

>>55334557

They are very popular with Graviton Guns. A squadron is a decent alternative to Lightnings for dedicated Spartan-hunting.
Difference is obviously that the Lightning blows all it's power in one attack run while the Speeders can chip away every turn, at the expense of being more exposed to firepower.

Biggest turnoff is the lack of 30k models, as your pic highlights.

>> No.55338152

>>55333986
Even if they had access to them it doesn't mean they were widespread and it is largely inaccurate to field large amounts of specific armour in the "incorrect" legion. FW constantly emphasizes how specific forces had more widespread access to certain equipment.

>> No.55338632

>>55338152
Unless each legion had fewer than, like, 50 of the mark in question it doesn't matter on our scale. It's not like you have thousands of marines on the tabletop.

>> No.55338807

>>55338152
So, what constitutes as "large amounts"? Give us a number. Stop beating around the bush for the sake of shitting on someone doing something you don't like, and give us the amount of "wrong" suits in the "wrong" legion. I'm dying to hear.

>> No.55339067

>>55327385
>>55330577
Continuing this conversation, what's a way to get people interested in HH with the hopes of making a community for the game if there's not one around?
I imagine the game doesn't really work at kill team level?

>> No.55339331

>>55327214
>>55327272
>>55327371
>>55329742
The Raven Guard and Alpha Legion are the only legions that used them _in large quantities_. Most of our armies are small enough that you can use them elsewhere.

The Visions of Heresy art had an Iron Warrior in Mk VI because no one really thought about armor mark distribution at the time (2004 or so, shortly before the Black Library series and 8 years before Forge World jumped in). FW came up with a solution by saying that every legion got some examples for testing, and the Iron Warriors got a fairly large number (more than most, it sounds like). As a whole, they didn't like them. Doesn't mean they threw them out. And if another legion only received 50 to test, well, it's easy to make a 3000pt army with fewer than 50 power armored dudes.

There was also a lot of looting during the Heresy.

The Imperial Fists recovered a lot of Mk VI armor from Mars before it fell, and gave a lot of it to Corax when he visited Terra after Isstvan V. What does "a lot" mean? No one knows, so feel free to pass it out to the Fists, Scars, and Blood Angels for the Siege.

>> No.55339372

>>55330797
No one's going to let chainsword-weilding tactiblobs get within charge range. I worry about your veterans too, despite Outflank.

You may need anti-air and more anti-tank, too. Could one veteran squad have melta-things?

>> No.55339448

>>55333377
>>55333795
There's no contradiction. The legions were starting to receive Mk VI suits but hadn't formally re-equipped any units with them yet, other than the RG and AL.

If we're winning the current war (the Great Crusade), everything's looking positive, and I'm starting to get a new experimental suit, I'm going to wait until I have a lot of spare parts and some dudes have trained on it before telling those dudes to swap out their current gear for the new stuff.

>> No.55339607

>>55339331
>no one really thought about armor mark distribution at the time

Even in RT it said that MkVI was pressed into service early in the Heresy and that traitors got it through Alpha Legion.

>every legion got some examples for testing

Before the Heresy, though large scale testing was conducted by RG, and they made such good work of it that the suits were put into mass production before the outbreak of the Heresy.


This whole thing is like people losing their shit if someone runs an Iron Hands recon army, DG assault marines or terminator and tank heavy RG. Nobody can come up with a reason why those legions couldn't have those things (or why FW hasn't seen fit to deny those units), yet have to object to it because "muh feels" or something. It's like being in a cult.

>> No.55339608

>>55339067
>>55339067
The podcasts suggest that it's going pretty well. 30k events are still growing, especially those that are 'narrative' events.

I haven't seen 30k Kill Team sort of games, but a lot of people play Zone Mortalis at 750-1250 points (there are podcast episodes dedicated to creating boards on the cheap - the Eye of Horus had one about terrain, for example) and Centurion (infantry and dreadnoughts) at ~1400 points.

Betrayal at Calth gives you at least 1,000 points and you can probably stretch it to nearly 1,500 with some effort. Burning at Prospero is 600 points in the worst case (if you don't use the legion-specific characters or Talons of the Emperor) but you can get close to 1,500 points out of it iirc.

>> No.55339702

>>55339608
Mechanicum don't do well in Zone Mortalis do they?

>> No.55339731

>>55339448
So how long were you planning on sitting on those suits? How many years into the Heresy can we expect to start seeing MkVI in such numbers that people won't "REEEE" when you field some? Can we have more than a unit by the time Horus is nuking Terra?

>> No.55339751

>>55339607
>This whole thing is like people losing their shit if someone runs an Iron Hands recon army, DG assault marines or terminator and tank heavy RG. Nobody can come up with a reason why those legions couldn't have those things (or why FW hasn't seen fit to deny those units), yet have to object to it because "muh feels" or something. It's like being in a cult.

I get why it happens - legions DO have preferences and predilections, and most of us will only build one army for any given legion so we don't want to do the weirdoes doing their own thing. You miss out on the overall character of the legion, not to mention their special rules.

But you're right, every legion did have to do a little bit of everything. They also had inductees from a wide variety of places. Chris Wraight just wrote a short story, Restorer, in which a Chogorian travels to the homeland of a Terran WS and starts to understand why that guy's philosophy of war was so different from his own. (I can't say that it's worth the money given how short it is, unless you're a big fan of that story arc like me.) The legions weren't monolithic.

>> No.55339820

>>55339067

Zone Mortalis is a good shout.
Alternatively, could look into an Escalation campaign. Start out at 500-1000pts with some houserules about army composition, and slowly grow out. Split a BaC or two between friends and it's easily affordable.
I think Book 3 has a 'Victory is Vengeance' campaign which might be appropriate as well.

>>55339607
I think there is justification to run almost any army for any Legion. Rites of War are generic for a reason. Even if they aren't the standard approach, every Legion could and should engage in any theatre of war with a full armoury at their disposal.
I find it particularly irritating that the Raven Guard have a limitation on vehicles for exactly this reason. It doesn't fit the fluff of Pre-Istvann, and it's not really a balancing factor because nobody would use RG to run a tank list.
It just serves to limit what I can play with. I understand the need for a Legion drawback, but limiting unit access is a mistake.

>>55322346
> Blood Angels: 36%

Is this some kind of meme? What the fuck is going on to make them so popular?
I can easily imagine Alphas and Iron to be at the top, but that whole chart looks totally fucked.
Funny that the bottom 6 are all Loyalists though.

>> No.55339829

>>55339731
During the late Great Crusade I'd probably sit on them for a while. Maybe just give them to Seekers. But as soon as I hear about Isstvan V (assuming I wasn’t there), it’s time to activate *everything*.

So yeah, a little surprised we haven’t seen more Mk VI in the black books. Though only Books 4 and 6 have taken us beyond the start of the Heresy, and Book 4 wasn't really about space marines.

>> No.55339898

>>55339067
>what's a way to get people interested in HH with the hopes of making a community for the game if there's not one around?
Assuming the people you are trying to get already play 40k let them use their current army for practice games while they build their heresy army. Marine armies keep the same core units and Imperial Militia is just guard with 4th edition style doctrines except more excessive and with access to super heavy tanks.

However kill team should still work as the core system is the same as 6th and 7th edition 40k and the core units are mostly the same as those found in 40k.

>> No.55339928

>>55339751
>we don't want to do the weirdoes doing their own thing

They're not there to appease people's autism. If it's fluffy, then let them do it. Legions might have had their preferences, but they don't conquer the galaxy with an army that can only do one thing. They're not the Imperial Guard. Even the dumbest primarch must know that neglecting your recon elements, armoured support, artillery, etc. will not bode well on the long run.

>You miss out on the overall character of the legion, not to mention their special rules.

Maybe someone just likes different elements of the same force. You already showed how there's even official fluff supporting divergent things. Surely people like to explore those more than just making another poison huffer DG, full daemon WB, or memetic AL army?

>> No.55339995

>>55339372
The tac blobs have a bit of extra forward movement due to open blade which gives them +1" to move and run distances on turn 1 plus they roll 2 pick highest for run distances helping them out a bit. Statistically speaking my tactical squads should be able to move up to 14" on turn 1 or more likely about 10-12" on average meaning turn 2 they should move another 6 inches plus have the 2d6 for charging. Assuming averages for distance rolls they should be able to reach units 25 inches away by turn 2.

As for the outflanking units I've never had trouble getting into charge range with the outflanking units especially when I take three so that odds are at least one will end up on a favorable table edge. However, Fulgrim does allow for some tactical flexibility so I could give him the void walker warlord trait and give a veteran squad deepstrike to increase the odds of a turn 3 assault. Also consider the fact that I get +2 to combat resolution across my army and an extra +1 (or 2 if I want to give Fulgrim a specific warlord trait) and I strike first on the charge and add d3 to sweeping advance rolls. Pretty much anything my vets or terminators charge will die that turn if it isn't fearless since I get +2 to combat resolution and am pretty likely to sweep them.

I doubt meltabombs would be feasible for my vets due to the cost and I tend to dislike meltabombs for anti-tank especially on dedicated melee units who I would rather have charging infantry that wasting time killing tanks and transports. As I said if I need more AT I would rather just drop a vet squad and buy another vehicle such as a sicaran or venator I would lean towards the sicaran since they are better for eating transports and are cheaper. The only reason I see a need to use a venator is against spartans or land raiders, krak grenades should be enough against most conventional tanks as should 6 str 7 rending shots.

>> No.55340030

>>55339829
>During the late Great Crusade

You're an optimist, if you think your troops will last for years without bad enough losses that you need to break the seal on those MkVIs. What about MkVs? Are you going to break in those over MkVIs?

>> No.55340052

>>55322470
These new models make me glad that I stopped with 40k alltogether after the gathering shitstorm.

>> No.55340113

>>55339829
Mk VI wasn't THAT widely produced during the Heresy though. Sure it existed, and sure it was produced but most units didn't have a bunch of Mk VI suits sitting in storage nor did they find a warehouse of them sitting around. The way I do my EC
>Elites get Mk IV (they get dibs on the new shit)
>Grunts get Mk II (they get the leftovers)
>Anyone with hardened armour gets Mk III (since Mk III is the heaviest)
>Scouts prefer Mk VI but my army doesn't have any so moot point (Mk VI is one of the lighter models and has a better sensor suite)
>Mk V is used as a last resort armour and while canonically I probably should have some suits I haven't made any yet since Mk V doesn't feel very EC
>Mk VII would just be generic armour for regular marines but my army doesn't have any so moot point

>> No.55340141

>>55322346
Hey guys, how much do Chainaxes cost for World Eaters?

>> No.55340164

>>55340141
0 points, the rulebook is pretty clear on that.

>> No.55340206

>>55340141

A Despoiler is already charging you down with 5 S6/AP4 attacks. Is the Bolter really worth arguing about at this point? In what situation is firing a Bolter worth not-Running or Charging?

RaW it's probably still free, but FWs response to this stuff is normally 'Stop being a cunt, of course not'.
Alternatively, just field Veterans and dodge the question entirely.

>> No.55340467

>>55340113
>wasn't THAT widely produced during the Heresy though

What was? MkIV stopped being made prior to the Heresy and the MkVI (and VII) were planned to replace it. MkII was way too time consuming to make and maintain and MkIII was a specialist suit. MkV was mostly made when no other option was available.

>Mk V doesn't feel very EC
>mfw they're not breasts, they're molecular bonding studs

>> No.55340578

>>55322395
Where is his head from anon? Looks great

>> No.55340600

>>55340467
If only we'd realized that 'joke' episode was actually a mission statement.

>> No.55340720

>>55339928
>If it's fluffy, then let them do it.
That's what we're debating, isn't it - what does fluffy mean? It's reasonable to assume that the White Scars had techmarines, praevians, and attached cybernetica maniples, but is it fluffy to make a WS army full of them? It almost certainly happened at some point during the Heresy, but it doesn't portray the general preferences of the legion. Which is more important?

>> No.55340809

>>55339995
I was thinking combi-meltas, but point taken. I just wish the open blade movement bonus was better. The Space Wolves get a better one.

I'd only start taking Venators and other tanks if you also put your marines in Rhinos. Then you've got enough vehicles driving around that some of them will survive to fulfill their mission.

>> No.55340893

What do you guys think of Betrayal at Calth? I bought it just for the miniatures first but looking at the rules and trying a bit of it, it seems pretty fun

>> No.55340972

>>55340893

I think you are literally the first person to even read the BaC rulebook rather than use the box for FW-fodder.

>> No.55340995

>>55340030
It's standard procedure for new equipment. Even during the Battle of the Bulge, the Allies didn't have access to their newest tanks that had just entered production because crews were learning how to use them in England. You don't do what Hitler did when he rushed Panthers to Kursk and most of them broke down.

The legionnaires were all talking about the Great Crusade as something that was winding down, all but won. It wasn't high-intensity enough that you'd want to rush training and not wait for spare parts to pile up.

>>55340113
We don't really have details. All we know is that a small amount went out before the war started, and Mars did have stockpiles for the Imperial Fists to recover. Maybe the only facilities that had built thousands of Mk VI suits were on Mars and wherever the Alpha Legion was getting them, so other legions had only a company's worth of suits or less. That's what I assume happened.

Even the Raven Guard didn't start with a very large number... but most of those suits ended up in Traitor hands after Isstvan V.

>> No.55341087

>>55340141
Most people around here require you to actually take a chainsword/close combat weapon before you can upgrade it to a chainaxe for no additional cost (as opposed to "having access" to a chainsword without exercising that option). That means that they're not free for tactical support marines, who have to pay +2 points for the chainsword/ccw. Same if you want to keep the bolters on your tactical marines and also take a chainaxe (but it would be free if you're willing to swap your bolter for a bolt pistol).

>> No.55341088

>> No.55341102

>>55340141
see>>55341088

>> No.55341145

>>55340467
>What was?
MK V mostly. During Heresy there were problems with supplies and Legions must somehow replace their losses.
Also they just repair destroyed armours.

>> No.55341436

>>55340720
>what does fluffy mean

It's in the fluff?

>> No.55341544

>>55340995
>Allies didn't have access to their newest tanks that had just entered production because crews were learning how to use them in England.

MkV is just as new as MkVI to a person who has not used it, so if you're gonna use one, you might as well use the other. Also, there's plenty of last ditch weapons that were pressed into service because they were needed. Or armies buying/scrounging any weapon they can get their hands on when war is pushed on them unexpectedly. Sometimes you don't have the luxury or training everyone to be good at using something. Sometimes you need power boots on the ground. They even accelerated the marine creation process, when it was needed.

>> No.55341707

>>55341544
Maybe something got lost along the way... I've been talking about what I would do if there were no Horus Heresy.

>> No.55342639

For Mortarion and Terra

>> No.55342775

>>55342639
Glory to the XIV

>> No.55344836

>>55340809
My main issue with rhinos is that my army is heavily assault oriented weakening the impact of non-assault transports. At the same time transports, even cheap transports decrease the tooth to tail ratio of my army. Put simply a rhino costs 35 points, that's 35 points that if lucky will kill a marine over the course of the game, on the other hand I could instead invest those 35 points into two power swords and a phoenix spear that can easily drop 3 marines per turn they assault. Furthermore the mobility increase by transports is dubious as is the increased survivability. Marines in a transport only get like 6" of extra movement, not that huge a deal especially when it means capping unit size at 10 models. Furthermore 10 marines in a rhino are if anything easier to kill than 20 foot slogging marines for that dubious increase in mobility and decrease in lethality.

Honestly though I'm not too worried about the survival of a few tanks since they are fairly heavy tanks and serve a specific role instead of general support. If the enemy brings a land raider which is killed turn 2 and my venator is finished off later that turn I am happy, it has done its role. If the enemy brings a few rhinos and my sicaran battle tank kills 2 it has done its job since it has left the infantry in the open to be butchered by me vets even if it dies without making its points back. If I was bringing say some of those plasma predators or whatever intending to use them to inflict casualties on the enemy army and make their points back I would care more about survivability but my tanks are going into battle with specific targets in mind and are heavy enough (AV 13 3 HP) that I am not terribly worried about them dying before they accomplish their mission since each tank can survive over a dozen krak missile shots on average or 9 lascannon shots.

>> No.55345021

Hey there folks, Blood Angels player here about to drop some cash on starting my legion for an escalation league happening at my store.
Question: when going against Blood Angels, what mark, or marks of armour, would you anticipate them being kitted out with? I want to have my army play -and look- as fluffy as possible.

>> No.55345141

>>55345021
>Question: when going against Blood Angels, what mark, or marks of armour, would you anticipate them being kitted out with? I want to have my army play -and look- as fluffy as possible.
For the early heresy and much of the later heresy Mk II would probably be the norm as Mk VI wasn't widely distributed until later in the heresy, Mk V was everywhere and fluffwise the only factor is how far you are from major logistical support (if your army is wandering the ghoul stars Mk V would probably be more common, if you are with the bulk of your legion it would be less common but still would see some use. The only thing I can definitely say is that Mk IV and Mk VI would be pretty uncommon, everything else is up to your personal preferences, although generally people seem to look down on people using Mk VII perhaps because it is seen as lacking commitment (to spend excessive amounts of money).

>> No.55345363

>>55345141

I think its silly to argue about armor marks outside of MKVII, which has no place prior to Siege of Terra. Field the aesthetics you like for your boys. That's all that matters.

And if people still rail on you? Pull your those MLP Blackshields and beat the other guy silly with Leviaponies!

>> No.55345427

>>55332008
A force of deathshrouds going with Typhus at the end of the heresy has been a thing for aaaages.

>> No.55345431

Is Zone Mortalis fairly easy to teach to people with no Warhammer experience? I'm thinking I might set up two sides for it in an attempt to get people in.

>> No.55345539

>>55333372
so you are avoiding any resin? Old school 30k players will be so pleased to play against your grey plastic horde.

>> No.55345765

>>55345363
I mean yeah but at the same time many people care about fluff to a significant extent and for those purposes arguing about armour marks is valid. If you want to field a blood angels army that is pretty standard they should probably be wearing primarily mk II with limited numbers of Mk IV and VI since the former were primarily given to traitors and the latter were primarily in the service of the RG and AL.

>> No.55345924

>>55345765
>>55345141

>Mark 2 is most common
K
>Look at Forge World
>They no longer have Mark 2 upgrade kits on their site

Oh for fucks sake...

>> No.55346326

>>55345765
>>55345924

Theres this too, but then it quickly descends into a neckbeard fapfest over who drops the most on this super rare Forgeworld resinshit. Mastadons are an egregious example, as their owners have no choice but to treat it as a badge of honor and people in the hobby have no choice but to acknowledge it respectfully because its a huge goddamn brick that cost $400USD or something like that.

>> No.55347241

People go about this whole armour mark thing all wrong IMO. First choose an armour mark that you like and then think about what that tells you about the fluff of your army.

Playing an army where the armour of each marine is autistically selected to match the most generic version of their legion in existence sounds pretty lame to me.

Play what you like. Fluff it up afterwards. That's the way FW want you to do it or they wouldn't have gone out of their way to stress that each legion had access to everything everytime someone inevitably brings up this topic.

>> No.55347396

>>55342639
>>55342775
Neat !

>> No.55348015

>>55342639
>>55342775
Lovely!

>> No.55348178

So this might sound bizarre, but how many of you dislike using bareheaded Marines? I have well over 120 Imperial Fists and every single one is wearing a helmet because I think it makes them look rad. Also because I think a good space Marine is one who protects his head.

My Custodes have a few bareheaded dudes to break them up and give some minor extra personality, but even then I usually have them die first.

What do you guys do?

>> No.55348317

>>55348178
I have a bareheaded sergeant in a melta support squad, primus medicae, praetor and a chaplain. The sergeant and the chaplain are the only ones I deliberately made that way and I could actually see those guys take their helmets off in battle. The praetor and the primus medicae were simply modeled that way and I choose to view their appearance on the battlefield as I would view an artists rendition of a battle. They probably wear helmets in an actual battle, but I don't mind that the sculptor wanted to show their faces on a model that represents them.

>> No.55348408

>>55348178
I'm an all helmet all the time guy as well. Any IW without a helmet will be decimated on sight.

>> No.55348420

>>55348317
Very nice ravens you got there. Loyalists?

>> No.55348442

>>55348420
Yup.

Here's a group shot from a while ago. Still working on a storm eagle and Corax.

>> No.55349279

Beep boop, fellow magi.

Bringing this list to a game day in a few weeks, will be my second or third ever 30k game. Thoughts on upgrades? I can't change models because this is all I own.

2500pts Cybernetica list
HQ
Archmagos Dominus with Machinator array, Cyber familiar, Abeyant, PW and a serpentia

x2 Magos Dominus with Machinator arrays and PWs
____________________________________
Troops
x10 Adsecularis with las-locks, Induction, and Carapace armour
x6 Thallax with chainblades and plasma
x6 Thallax with two proton thrusters
x2 Castellax with Darkfires and ETA
x2 Castellax with Maulers and flamers
____________________________________
Fast attack
x3 Vorax in one cohort, with Bio corrosive rounds
____________________________________
Heavy Support
x1 Plasma Thanatar with ETA
____________________________________
Lords of War
Mechanicum Indentured Knight Paladin, with occular augmentics, autosimulcra, and bio-corrosive rounds.

>> No.55349776

>>55340893
Me and a friend tried it, it's decent-ish for playing once, but it grows rather boring and the missions are quite short. Make of it what you will

>> No.55349792

>>55348442
Needs more beakies, but that aside, truly a stunning army. Raven Guard are one of my favorite loyalist legions.

>> No.55349951

>>55348442
Looks tip top, anon. Nice to see termi claws too, fits the RG well.

>> No.55349987

>>55349279
What unit gets the magos and archmagos?

Also always give magos dudes an Augery Scanner. It's so worth it for the 5 pts. Also don't forget Cortex Controllers.

>> No.55349996

>>55340893
BaC is a game too? Wait what!?

>> No.55350020

>>55349996
Where the fuck have you been?
https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/The-Horus-Heresy-Betrayal-at-Calth-Book

>> No.55350303

>>55349279
Swap Induction for Fearless on the Thralls, since they do fuck all damage anyway and work better as roadblocks that way. Cut either the chainblades or the plasma weapons, Thallax are bad enough without overgeneralizing them. If you drop the plasma buy the Melee Thallax Ferrox, if you drop the chainblades buy the Photon Thallax Tank Hunter so as to reroll the Lance to chip through AV14 and such.
Ideally you want a djinn-skein and some Cyber-occularis to guide in the Thallax, the Thanatar bombardments and provide Interceptor, but that's an expensive package. If you have to, cut out the Adsec or three Thallax from one of the units to fit in them, and maybe buy the Archmagos a better gun if you have any spare points.

If you absolutely can't afford Occularis, buy the Magi Augury Scanners for some Interceptor coverage, way better than nothing.

>> No.55350576

>>55349951
>>55349792

Thanks! Might add some more beakies in the future when I add veterans or recon squads etc. Right now I've honestly kind of had it with all the black so I'm going to distract myself with a sisters allied detachment and then some Word Bearers for when I need to switch sides.

>> No.55351025

>>55349987
Probably the Castellaxes and Thanatar. I think cortex controllers come standard so didn't write them.

>>55350303
Thanks. Archmagos had a proton thruster but dropped it to spend points elsewhere. Serpentia is free, so. Plasmallax had chainblades since I expected them to be further up the field, but it's probably better to spend those points on other stuff as you say.

>> No.55351268

>>55349279
Seems fine I think you could use more AA but I don't see how you could get more in with your current models. Shouldn't be a horrible issue but its something to consider when you want to buy more models.

>> No.55351290

>>55349987
Eh, his thallax already essentially have augury scanners so I don't see them as vital for preventing infiltrators. Also he is right that for Dominus at least cortex controllers are free (which makes sense since their whole job is leading automata).

>> No.55351896

>>55345431
It's still 7th ed, but yeah, the restricted avenues of movement simplify things.

>>55345021
Even though Horus kept most of the Mk IV for his friends, he had to give some to the Blood Angels. Book 6 shows a pre-Signus dude in Mk IV. Same picture but different text as this one.
>His Mark IV Legiones Astartes power armour was newly issued at the time of the Nartaba muster, and Sabraham's suit is one of many such sub-types unique to the Blood Angels.

Also safe to assume that the Ultramarines could build Mk IV suits for them once they reached Imperium Secundus.

In other words, buy Betrayal at Calth. Or Burnibg of Próspero, why not. (Seriously, iPhone? You turn "armour" into "armpit" because of the u but leave "Burnibg"?)

>> No.55352120

>>55350020
The joke
I
I
I
I
I
V
You

>> No.55352148

Be me
>reading HH
>first 5 books are good
>get into this and read some more but not in any particular order
>some are good some are medicore
>read Legion
>utterly disappointed
>ok next book will be Master of Mankind, First Heretic and NL stories were good, so MoM should also be good
>SQUAD MORALE BROKEN
>decide never again to touch BL HH again

>> No.55352231

>>55351896
>Even though Horus kept most of the Mk IV for his friends, he had to give some to the Blood Angels. Book 6 shows a pre-Signus dude in Mk IV. Same picture but different text as this one.
I mean yeah he is certainly 100% able to justify Mk IV without stretching the imagination but canonically Mk II would have been given to the bulk of the legion through most of the heresy, with Mk IV being in relatively short supply compared to the traitor legions. Put simply assuming a generic force of Blood Angels (12th chapter, 8th company or whatever as opposed to 1st chapter, 1st company who probably get first dibs on gear) most of his army should be equipped with Mk II or else his force is an oddity.

Granted it is by no means impossible that the 12th chapter, 8th company could be equipped heavily, mostly, or entirely with Mk IV, or even Mk VI, but for most of those generic forces Mk IV would be in the minority. Since he specifically asked about fluff I feel it poignant to point out that no BA didn't have as much Mk IV as the traitor legions. Also I'm not sure if Imperium Secondus had much in the way of Mk IV production and even if they did if it was extensive enough to equip large portions of the Blood Angels.

Essentially the main marks
>Traitors barring exceptions: Mk II and Mk IV
>Loyalists barring exceptions: Mk II
>Raven Guard: Mk II and Mk VI
>Death Guard: Mk III
>Alpha Legion: Mk IV and Mk VI
>Imperial Fists: Mk II and Mk III
Of course anything can be justified but in general traitors got the new gear and loyalists were stuck with older equipment barring specific exceptions like the Ultramarine's modified Mk IV and Mk VI for the Raven Guard. Additionally I think the Ultramarines might have a higher ratio of Mk IV than most other loyalists.

>> No.55352474

>>55352148
I thought MoM was structured well, just didn't have enough likable characters. But try A Thousand Sons, Betrayer, and the White Scars stories by Chris Wraight. I liked the Tallarn stories, too, and a lot of the short stories. Oh, and The Eventh Serpent. Praetorian of Dorn is 95% good but the other 5% will drive you nuts.

>> No.55352495

>>55352231
But there's so much Mk III in the novels and the art. I'm not convinced it was used in specialized roles only

>> No.55352686

>>55352474
I will try Scars.

>> No.55352724

>>55352495
That is certainly possible and it could be left up to personal tastes in that regards. In that case it should be viewed much like Mk II as it isn't particularly new and all legions would have widespread access to it even if certain legions (thinking primarily of Raven Guard) would generally shun it. However the Space Sharks are members of the Raven Guard and I could totally see them using Mk III which leads to the ultimate answer that if you really like a certain vehicle, unit, or model of armour you can justify using it.

>My Iron Warriors use primarily Mk VI
They suffered heavy losses in Isstvan V and stripped off the armour of dead RG which they gave to new recruits
>My Raven Guard include lots of terminators and Mk III
Carcharodons pretty much
>My Emperor's Children are primarily scouts and destroyers
They are the rejects nobody else in the legion likes for being honourless cowards
>My World Eaters include several heavy and special weapon squads
The more sane members who have managed to resist the worst effects of the butcher's nails
>My White Scars have no bikes and lots of terminators
They are a breakthrough force so that the rest of the legion can exploit the breakthrough with bikes

>> No.55353246

What is the consensus on using 40k vehicles in 30k? And does anyone have any good tips/links on converting any of the vehicles to look more "heresy era"?

>> No.55353400

>>55353246
Rhinos, Land Raiders(normal lascannon ones) Drop Pods, Predators, Whirlwinds, Land Speeders, Vindicators and Dreds are ok to use just make sure you don't put on them any 40k weapon(assault cannons, stormbolter etc).

>> No.55353422

>>55353400
this

>> No.55353446

>>55353400
Depending on Legion ofcourse.
With Blood Angels you can use Assault Cannons for instance.

>> No.55353620

>>55353400
There's not much of a difference between vehicle combi-bolter and storm bolter. In 40k rules as is, there no difference in rules either.

>> No.55353731

>>55352724
>My White Scars have no bikes and lots of terminators

Motorized infantry is perfectly WS. They're not all about bikes all the time.

>> No.55353864

>>55353446
I will laugh if when Blood Angels get their actual books they lose access to assault cannons outside of terminators and predators.
>But my dreadnoughts with power fists and underslung assault cannons
>But my heavy weapons squads with assault cannons
>But my assault cannon predators with sponson assault cannons
>But my pintle mounted assault cannons
Truly no legion is more bullshit than Blood Angels
>What if we let Blood Angels independent characters take swords that are AP 2 and inflict two wounds per successful wound roll
>What's the downside?
>They aren't +1 strength so Blood Angels wound marines on a 3+

>What if Blood Angels could take assault cannons on any unit or vehicle with access to a heavy flamer
>How much should this cost?
>5 points, assault cannons are pretty much on par with heavy bolters

>What if we gave Blood Angels a Rite of War that gives them +1 initiative on the charge?
>Isn't that like 90% of the Emperor's Children's Legiones Astartes rules?
>Yes it is

>Should we make any attempt to balance Blood Angels moritats so two of them can't wipe out an entire squad of Justaerin with inferno pistols?
>Why?

>Should we mention that hand flamers can't use chainfire with moritats?
>Nah, nobody would try to abuse hand flamers and moritats for infinite wounds?

>Every legion needs a weakness what should be the Achilles Heel of the Blood Angels?
>Lets make it so they always have to try to do a sweeping advance, that should weaken their assault capabilities a bit

Why does Forge World still think being forced to sweep is a disadvantage?

>> No.55353877

Can someone explain to me what books are valid in Horus Heresy? I thought the Armies of Darkness ones replaced books 1-5 but Forgeworld still seems to sell them, are they updated?

>> No.55353881

>>55353731
I was implying foot slogging terminators.

>> No.55353951

>>55353864
>tfw your Space Crusade style AC marines are not kosher

Assault cannons in 30k were a mistake from the beginning. FW just didn't want to slay their golden eggnought laying goose with the Contemptor.

>> No.55354027

>>55353877
Maybe but they are primarily fluff books anyway. If you want the rules look for the red books, Age of Darkness Army List, Crusade Imperialis army list, Taghmata army list, and age of darkness legions.

>> No.55354477

>>55352686
Scars is a little odd because it was written for episodic release, and many of its characters first show up in the novella Brotherhood of the Storm which can be found in the Legacies of Betrayal anthology. I'd start there; if you don't like the author's style or the White Scars' character, you'll know in a shorter story.

Then comes Scars, then a couple of (imo, insignificant) short stories, Allegiance and Brotherhood of the Moon, then Path of Heaven (which is awesome, especially if you like Emperor's Children), then the short stories Last Son of Prospero (meh, but has Grey Knight hints) then Restorer (quite good).

>> No.55354652

>>55353864
>Truly no legion is more bullshit than Blood Angels
You would be correct if tsons didn't exist.

>> No.55355389

>>55354652
What is so bullshit about Thousand Sons except having an obscene amount of special wargear, units, and rules? My glances through book 7 haven't shown anything in particular that is real bullshit.

I'm mostly annoyed by how much better Grey Slayers are than tactical marines.
>Same exact cost
>Anyone can take power weapons for cheaper than normal (World Eaters have to give up scoring for strength 6 tactical marines)
>Get cheaper than normal power fists and lightning claws
>Give up fury of the legion to charge after running or shooting bolters
Yeah nothing bullshit about 20 marines with power swords or axes who have +1 WS on the charge and can charge after running.

>> No.55355440

>>55355389
And then the Ordo Reductor giggles to itself and obliterates them in glorious rad-flamer death, because they're still normal Marines. Anything that tempts the enemy to dump more points into big PA squads is rather good for shooty armies.

>> No.55355635

>>55355440
Its honestly not that expensive. 325 points for the 20 man power weapon, super fast, WS 5 blob. A Space Wolf player could buy three of those blobs and still not even be at 1000 points yet.

>> No.55355744

>>55350303
The Archmagos Dominus can't take a Djinn-skein, can they? I only see it as an option on the Archmagos Prime. Or am I missing something?

>> No.55355830

>>55355744
Yeah, my mistake. So used to having Archimandrite as the goto for every list I forgot the Dominus had different options. Get the scanners instead, then.

>> No.55355955

>>55355830
Would it be worth it to switch to a Prime instead? I think the main benefit of the Dominus is that he's dead 'ard and can join MC units.

>> No.55355989

>>55355955
Probably not, since you don't have anything he'd really buff with Cybernetica as opposed to my beloved Reductor and he's expensive. Stick with the Dominus.

>> No.55356071

>>55355989
Fair point. At any rate, +2/++3, T6, W4 with IWND and FNP 5+ seems pretty hilariously tough. I'm looking forward to putting Archmagos Kyros on the table.

>> No.55356109

>>55355389
With Thousand Sons it's basically Magnus being very good for the points, largely due to his ranged D attacks, and Sekhmets looking very good for their points. Justaerin and Firedrakes are considered top-tier units, and Sekhmet Terminators are also 2-wound Terminators plus they have access to a wide range of potentially very powerful buffs. In Cataphractii armor, with the right cult, they get a 3+ invulnerable save on top of their 2W, don't they? And that's before casting some of the crazier psychic powers.

It's really just those two units... which they can build an army off of using one of their legion-specific rites of war.

Other than that, they can swamp everyone else in warp dice and that's potentially a problem because 7th ed.'s psychic powers are kinda nuts. Some are mediocre, others are over the top. So they aren't consistently scary like SW (your points about Grey Slayers are spot on) or, to a much greater extent, Custodes.

>> No.55356125

>>55353881
White Scars board a lot of ships in their novels. Lots of ZM stuff.

>> No.55356264

>>55355389

> Guard of the Crimson King
> Sekhmet Terminators with Telekinesis, choose Levitate and Maelstrom
> Magnus rolls on Sanctic

> Compulsory HQ and Troops is a unit of 2W, 2++ rerollable Terminators who move as Jump Infantry / Teleport, throw an S10/AP1 Large Blast and a D-Nova every turn, while also having S7/AP2 Force Weapon melee attacks and Shredding shooting.

>> No.55356267

>>55356071
Oh snap, custom Mech fluff. Post it if you've got it, always nice.
I do know that AMagos durability is USUALLY enough to tank even the Paragon Blades Praetors like to swing at you, which is always fun when you have a cheap as chips chainfist.

Beautiful feat of transhuman swordsmanship manages to chip the paint on his chassis before the Magos backhands the Praetor across the room with S8. There was one Magos I saw with two power fists on the model from the Ursarax kit, which made me want to see him snapping a Space Marine in half Bane style. Maybe that's how I'll model Punished Treides when I eventually finish him. He can crash his whale-stormbird with no survivors.

>> No.55356295 [DELETED] 

>>55356109
>With Thousand Sons it's basically Magnus being very good for the points, largely due to his ranged D attacks, and Sekhmets looking very good for their points.
Bullshit doesn't really mean good for their price, bullshit is a mixture of OP and flat out retarded.

Getting assault cannons for 5 points more than a heavy flamer is a great price, but being allowed to put them fucking everywhere is retarded.

Being essentially strength 5 is just a good LA rule, but being able to be +1 I on the charge with a rite of war added to that is bullshit.

Having an AP 2 regular initiative 2 handed power sword is a fine weapon to give to consuls and centurions, but that sword inflicting two wounds per successful wound rolled is bullshit.

Inferno pistols would be a fine upgrade, until you give them to moritats who can ID terminators with up to 12 str 8 AP 1 hits

>> No.55356828

>>55356267
Archmagos Kyros of Cybernetica Cohort Alectryon. Avenger of Archmagos Alectrius, Purifier of Tainted Steel, and Ever-loyal to the Throne of Terra and Holy Mars.

>> No.55356876

>>55356267
>>55356828
And this is one of my two Magos Prime. I haven't nailed down his name yet, but his elevator pitch is Too insane to lead but too powerful to be replaced in an economicall fashion. Archmagos Kyros holds him on a short leash consisting of influence and his own martial prowess.

>> No.55357483

All y'all muthafuckas in the upper Midwest should take notice, renegade gt just posted their hh tourney rules:
http://www.renegadeopen.com/rules/horus-heresy-30k-tournament-format/

>> No.55357619

>>55356828
With a little more weathering he'd look very Blanche. I like it, although I have no idea where any of the parts are from or if it's some old model I don't know about.
Myrmidon guy is noice, although to be honest he looks somewhat more imposing than the Archmagos. Would be odd seeing the big chap scared of Mr. Compensating Axe.

Meanwhile I'm sitting here failing at assembling Arquebus Rangers from 40k. Sometimes the glue just doesn't want to work.

>> No.55357733

>>55357619
Archmagos is based on Iron Lich Asphyxious from Warmachine. Most of the mechadendrites are FW, servo arm is Dystopian Wars, flamer/infenro gun is FW, axe is scratch built from two bases glued together, some plasticard and various bits.

The best way to persuade fleshbags is to have something even scarier at your side. The axe inspires respect through awe, the idling eviscerator arm inspired respect through implied threat. The Magos Prime stays in line mostly through mutual respect, and Kyros knows what makes him tic. That said, you don't become an Archmagos if you can't crack a few harddrives along the way. Leave the logistics and data-collecting to his other Magos Prime (Who is basically the FW slug magos with a Myrmidon power fist instead of the massive claw it comes by default)

>> No.55358871

Who was worse?
Leman "can't do anything right" Russ
or
Lorgar "all I ever wanted was the truth" Aurelian

>> No.55358980

>>55358871
Russ didn't demolish the playground because someone took his plastic spade.

>> No.55359014

>>55353400
both assault cannon and stormbolter existed in the heresy, just weren't standard issue

>> No.55359024

>>55352495
Mk.IV was the most common armor design in the Heresy, but the III appears in fluff so much because it looks more distinctive and gives a "this happened 10,000 years ago" vibe.

>> No.55359059

>>55358871
Let me see. One of them fucked up, the other one deliberately orchestrated the destruction of everything. It's a toughie.

>> No.55359063

>>55322395
What paints did you use?
>painting for me is just a terrifying experience, pls no bully.

>> No.55359099

>>55359014
Rulewise you can't take stormbolter or assault cannon(exept IF-BA prototype ones).

>> No.55359136

>>55352495
I think a few legions (DG, IH, IW, and to a lesser degree IF) favoured it to such a degree that it became more or less a general mark for them. All the 40k DG are in mk.III, for example.

>> No.55359281 [DELETED] 

>>55359136
>All the 40k DG are in mk.III, for example
And 40k Deathschroud have Cataphractii when 30k have Tartaros.

>> No.55359307

>>55359136
>All the 40k DG are in mk.III, for example
And 40k Deathshroud have Cataphractii when 30k have Tartaros.

>> No.55359734

>>55358980
No he was just an edgy teenager who talked about how he once totally murdered a kid under that bridge.

>> No.55360136

>>55358980
>Magnus: "Horus is a traitor, please you have to believe me!"
>Emperor: "Russ go drag him back here to explain himself."
>Horus: "Uhmm... it's probably best if you just kill Magnus and his whole legion instead of bringing him in for questioning..."
>Russ: "Okey dokey, nothing suspicious about ordering the murder of someone who just claimed to have proof of your treachery."

Lorgar is still worse though.

>> No.55360163

>>55360136
In newest lore Magnus never got his warning off. Whole thing was for nothing.

>> No.55360244

>>55360163
Oh, I was just going off Prospero Burns where Russ got the message.

>*wet leopard growling intensifies*

>> No.55360970

>>55322376
so does he just have a small child dip his hand in red paint for that handprint on his chest or what?

>> No.55361328

>>55360163
Thats incorrect. Magnus always delivered his warning it was just overshadowed by the destruction of the webway project. Russ knew the contents of the warning in Prospero Burns and even Guilliman is aware that Magnus delivered a warning about Horus.

>> No.55363815

>>55361328
I believe it's the Collected Visions telling, where Magnus forces his way through Terra's defences and causes the webway to collapse. As he sees daemons start pouring in, he recoils in horrors and loses connection. The Emperor merely sees Magnus force his way in and flooding the place with daemons. No message was delivered. Can't remember if it's this version where Russ is the one who convinces the Emperor that Magnus is lost and must be dealt with.

I'll take murderhobo Russ over "gee, dad said not to, but you were always the smert oen, Herus. Yo! Magnus! Bro! It's yiffin' tiem!"

I believe there's also a version where Magnus delivers the message, but it's a short burst of garbled mess, and Emperor orders Magnus to brought in on grand sorcery charges.

>> No.55363879

>>55363815
There are many different tellings about Magnus' warning. However since the HH started getting books and material written about it Magnus has always delivered the warning. He and the Emperor psychically meet and Magnus shows the Emperor his warning, and the Emperor shows Magnus what he has destroyed. Here's an extract that shows Magnus delivered his warning and that it was passed it on to Russ

>My lord,’ said Hawser. ‘What… what did your brother do?’
>‘He performed an act of maleficarum that drove his sorcery right to the heart of Terra and into the presence of the Emperor,’ said Helwintr.
>‘But… why?’ asked Hawser.
>‘It was an alleged attempt to communicate a warning,’ said Russ without turning. His voice was a soft grumble, like thunder grinding in the far distance.
>‘A warning, my lord?’
>‘One of such terrible importance, Magnus felt it was worth exposing his own treachery to reveal it,’ Russ murmured.
>‘Forgive me,’ said Hawser, ‘but does that not speak to some loyalty in your brother? Has the warning been examined? Has it been taken seriously?’
>Russ turned back to face him.
>‘Why would it? My brother is a madman. A dabbling warlock.’

continues..

>> No.55363892

>>55363879
>‘Lord,’ said Hawser, ‘he was prepared to admit he was ignoring the edicts of Nikaea, and risk the censure that he knew must result from that admission, to relay a warning. Why would he do that unless the warning was valid?’
>‘You’re not a warrior, skjald,’ said the Wolf King in an almost kindly tone. ‘Strategy is not your strong suit. Consider the reverse of your proposition. Magnus wants the ruling of Nikaea overturned. He wants permission and approval to continue with his arcane tinkerings and his foul magics. So he manufactures a threat, something he can warn us about that is so astonishing we would have to forgive him, and set aside our objections. Something so unthinkable, we would have to thank him and tell him he had been right all along. All along. This is his ploy.’
>‘Do you know what was so unthinkable? asked Hawser.
>‘Magnus claimed that great Horus was about to turn against the Imperium,’ said Russ. ‘From the look on your face, Ahmad Ibn Rustah, I see you recognise how ridiculous that sounds.’
Hawser switched his gaze to Helwintr. The priest’s masked face was unreadable.
>‘Wolf King, great lord,’ Hawser began, ‘that’s not the first time that warnings concerning the Warmaster have been voiced. Please, lord—’
>‘Our skjald refers to the incident involving Eada Haelfwulf, lord,’ said Helwintr.
>‘I know of it,’ said Russ. ‘It seems corroborative, I grant you. But once again, consider the strategy. It involved maleficarum turning and twisting one of our own gothi, in the immediate vicinity of you, an identified conduit for the enemy’s power. Of course poor Haelfwulf would gabble out the same damned lie with his dying breath. It’s supposed to make Magnus’s story sound more credible by coming from a secondary source.’
Russ looked down into Hawser’s eyes.

continues..

>> No.55363907

>>55363892
>‘Truth is, it’s the proof I need that Magnus is desperately trying to coordinate a campaign of disinformation to support his ruse. He doesn’t need to answer through you, skjald. He’s answered already.’
>The Wolf King turned to Helwintr and the escort.
>‘Take him away, but keep him with us, right to the advance. I want that channel to my brother left open. My poor brother. I want him to see us coming. I want him to know it’ll never be too late for him to beg for mercy.

There's a reason Russ was upset after Prospero, and it wasnt just from having to kill his brother. He was used by Horus in the worst way possible for a legion like the Rout.

>> No.55364347

Legion Praetor /w Jump, Apothecarion /w Jump, 20+ Assault Marines, 2 Leviathans (drop pods), 2 Contemptors (drop pods), Fire Raptor ~ in 2k points sound Blood Angels enough?

>> No.55364656

>>55363907
I wonder how Russ was when Horus whipped his ass at Yarant.

>> No.55365206

Finished up some Sister of Silence Oblivion Knight-Centuras and a count-as Vindicare since my local group is cool with Assassins.

What are you working on?

>> No.55365260

>>55364347
>minimum troops
>2 leviathans
Sure smells like WAAC in here.

>> No.55365440

>>55363879
>There are many different tellings about Magnus' warning.

Yes, and as such, the statement "Magnus always delivered his warning" is incorrect.

>> No.55365608

>>55365440
>In newest lore Magnus never got his warning off.
>However since the HH started getting books and material written about it Magnus has always delivered the warning.
Here have some context.

>> No.55365626

>>55365608
So what does the "always" suppose to mean, if not referring to all versions of the story?

>> No.55365644

>>55365626
Time for your meds bud.

>> No.55365665

>>55365644
I'm not that guy but what you are saying doesn't even make sense.

>this is always the case
>except in the instances when it isn't

>> No.55365692

>>55327178
That hazard stripe on helmet can actually hypnotize

>> No.55367427

>>55356264
>buncha motherfuckin wizards

Don't see the problem here. Are they costed appropriately and just fucking supremely annoying? Or is this on top of legion things.

t. Anon who has 30k admech but no one to play T.T

>> No.55367613

>>55327214
>>55327272
>>55327371
>>55327385
It's kinda funny, the original marine sculpts were almost exclusively mk VI, and the whole civil war setting was due to the technical limitation of not wanting to produce different sculpts for both sides. Obviously ancient history.

I'm a pretty big fan of the SoH specific sculpts; they get close to that techno barbarian aesthetic from the "middle era" heresy art by Adrian Smith et al. After rogue trader but before the look became as well established as it is now.

>tfw not enough pickelhaubs
>tfw when no cataphractii style slab shoulders on power armor ever
>tfw pyramidal spikes/studs on greaves and shoulders appear often in concept sketches but on very few sculpts

>> No.55367688

>>55367427
"35 points per Stubborn Psyker Terminator with 2 wounds, +1 to invulnerable and a Force Weapon, only 5 points over a regular Terminator" - 1d4chan tactica. It would seem that the sons get a bit too much for too cheap.

>> No.55367760

>>55327178
I've never liked the beakies. Ever.

I know, I know; I embrace the hate.

>> No.55368445

>>55367427
>35 point 2 wound psychic terminators
>495 point Str 7(9 with weapon), mastery level 5 primarch, who harnesses warp charges on a 3+ and makes enemies have to roll 1 better to hit him AND hit unit (so BS 4 unit is essentially BS 3 when shooting at his unit)
I still wouldn't call TS as bullshit as Blood Angels because it is only two things that are really fucking retarded Blood Angels bullshit is everywhere from praetors and champions to rites of war and moritats to attaching assault cannons to everything to their LA rules. TS could be more easily nerfed by making Sekhmet terminators more expensive while to get rid of Blood Angels bullshit you need to outright remove wargear or or change how their legiones astartes rules.

>> No.55369427

>>55354477
>Restorer
Is there an upload?

>> No.55369682

>>55365260

WAAC would be Iron Warriors or Ultra termies wouldn't it?

>> No.55369790

>>55369682

WAAC would be Phosphex Rapiers, Arcii and Pride.
Obvious standout is that you only have 1 Apothecary. I assume you're also running a Rite? I'm not familiar with BA but I'd assume Revelations.

General rule of thumb is to have 1 decent Scoring unit per 500pts. You'll mob up on 2 Objectives but you are 2 Tank-Shocks away from losing them.

>> No.55370015

looking to jump in with death guard, using calth as a base with some additions, how does this look for a 1500pt starting line?
Rite of war; The Reaping
Preator with cataphractii, power scythe
Seige Breaker Consul
2 squads 14 tactical legionnaires with bolters, nuncio vox
7 heavy support legionnaires with missile launchers
2 thudd guns with phosphex
5 grave wardens with 2 chainfists and aheavy flamer with chem munitions
leviathan dread with storm cannon and grav-flux. chest heavy flamers with chem munitions, phospex discharger

Anything blatant I'm missing or will opposing forces just chew through this no problem?

>> No.55370069

>>55369682
No. Both units are extremely expensive and have limited defensive capabilities. Just fire some AP 2 or 1 weapons at them, don't even need ID.

Really any list that simply cannot hope to be beaten with an all comers list is WAAC unless the opponent is allowed to tailor against it.
>Take the rite of war that lets you take predators as troops and sicarans as elites
>BS 5 Sicaran as warlord/HQ
>6 Plasma Predators
>4 Sicarans
>3 Sicaran Venators
>Still only at 2190 points
>Have 6 executioner plasma cannons in AV 12 tanks
>Have 5 accelerator autocannons in AV 13 tanks
>Have 3 of those strength 10 two shot (cannot shoot if penned) guns in AV 13 tanks

>All your bolters are useless
>All +1/0 strength power weapons are useless
>Any poison weapons are useless
>Phosphex is useless
>Rad weapons are useless

Sure this list is perfectly fluffy but unless your opponent is given the ability to build his list in response to it (eg. drop paragon blades for power fists, get rid off all phosphex, dump his rad grenades in the ocean, give every single unit meltabombs) he will probably spend most of the game chasing around tanks and getting shot apart.

Another example is Knight Anon who would bring like two or three knights and the bare minimum of troops, because most people don't have the ability

>> No.55370111

>>55370015
>14 tactical legionnaires
>doesn't take 20 with an apothecary (3x7=21)
>2 thudd guns
>doesn't take 3 and put the siege breaker with them (2 crew per gun x 3+1=7)
>5 grave wardens
>doesn't find a way to get 2 more (or 1 more and put Praetor with them)

0/7, would not huff poison with.

Also, heavy flamer on the grave wardens is pointless, when their stock guns are good and they have a flame template attack.

>> No.55370256

>>55370069

Nitpicking: Only Autocannon Predators become Troops. If your opponent has filled his HS with Venators, then all of his Predators are toting S7/AP4 without anything nicer than a Sponson.
I'd also make the argument that the game was written with Meltabomb deathsquads still being a thing. The '1-per-phase' ruling has completely fucked certain upgrades, and simultaneously pushed the game into Mech-or-die alongside Phosphex being obnoxiously OP.

>> No.55370435

>>55370111
upping the squads to 20 (plus apothecary), adding in another quad launcher, adding another grave warden and dropping the heavy lfamer, and adding a contemptor brings this list to 2000 pts.
I was just trying to mainly stay with what calth gives me for the basis. This looks like a good growth option though.
Thank you fellow poison huffer.

>> No.55370532

>>55370256
Fair nitpick but that just means you could spend the saved points on triple lightnings with more multilasers, missile launchers, or phosphex bombs. Or you could buy yet more naked autocannon predators.
>I'd also make the argument that the game was written with Meltabomb deathsquads still being a thing.
The thing is that you need to carry out a ton of assaults to start clearing out the table with that and it invalidates so much of your list.

Another example could be blob Solar Auxilia. Unless you build your list around artillery good luck clearing out 360+ infantrymen.

Also knight spam is a thing

Marines can bring 3 fire raptors, 3 fast attack flyers, and an orbital strike wing, which are hard for armies without significant AA to deal with and cannot be ignored

Ordo reductor can take multiple scoring super heavy tanks

There is also the old phosphex spam which can cripple any army that has lots of foot sloggers

Imperial militia can easily take 30 T6 3 wound Ogryn

>> No.55370563

>>55369682
IW Siege Tyrants are good, but I wouldn’t say they’re broken. You’re paying a lot of points for both firepower and close combat capability, but you aren’t likely to use both (except defensively) so they’re not THAT points-efficient.

UM’s special terminators cost so many points that they’re broken in the bad sense.

>> No.55370593

>>55370256
>The '1-per-phase' ruling has completely fucked certain upgrades, and simultaneously pushed the game into Mech-or-die alongside Phosphex being obnoxiously OP
Doesn't everyone ignore that ruling and allow multibombing?

>> No.55370600

>>55367760
I don't like them either anon.

>> No.55370722

>>55367760
I'm indifferent about them, acknowledging that they're an iconic look and some units look good in them.

That said, they're the second most used armour in my army, after MkIV.

>> No.55370993

>>55352474
What about Angel Exterminatus?

>> No.55371061

>>55370993
I think Angel Exterminatus is great but it's fairly controversial. He listed all of the objectively best books.

>> No.55371065

>>55370593
Guess it depends on group. I know mine does it

>> No.55371081

>>55370993

Other than Nykona 'Reem Meme the Ninja Marine' Sharrowkyn, it's fairly forgettable.
Provides another aspect to Perturabo if you care about Iron Warriors, and Fulgrim is a massive twat like he does best.
Certainly not part of the Heresy A-team though.

> Opening trilogy, First Heretic, Betrayer, Scars, Path of Heaven. Thousand Sons, Mechanicum and Legion make a decent B-tier.

>> No.55371169

>>55371081
>omitting Know No Fear from the A-team
The opening trilogy is overrated. Their whole job was to sell Horus's fall from grace that sets up the entire series and it ends up just being
>had a bad dream, guess I'm evil now

>> No.55371212

>>55371169
>>55371081

> 'Make the pain go away' tier
> Outcast Dead, Fear to Tread, Battle for the Abyss, Nemesis
I loved Descent of Angels and Fallen Angels. Fuck you Gav for The Lion.

>> No.55371228

>>55370993
It isn't universally loved, but some people think it's great and most people agree it's above average.

>> No.55371234

>>55371169
Horus betray in book was realy stupid.
>>55371081
Also Legion was bad,
>some xenos show us their vision
>lol we betray Emprah because we are loyal.

>> No.55371337

>>55371212
Descent of Angels and Fallen Angels were pretty meh to me. I dropped Angels of Caliban right away after turbo cringing at the Dreadwing's "WE HAVE COME! WE ARE DEATH!" segment.

>>55371234
>The Imperium is the Eldar's biggest competitor
>we need you to kill the Emperor, here's some visions of the future for proof that we definitely couldn't have faked
Alpharius and Omegon confirmed for retarded.

>> No.55371347

>>55371081
I might toss Meduson onto the B-team pile. No masterpiece, but had some cool stuff about the Iron Hands and the Keys of Hel, aka Revenant Alchemistry Space Marines.

>> No.55371358

>>55371234
Yeah, it didn't quite work. But it was better than the old fluff in which Horus gets possessed by a daemon in that lodge on Davin. They still had him being tricked by one, but at least he had some agency in his own downfall.

The Cabal storyline in Legion still bothers me. It could've been a neat idea and a good fit for the Alpha Legion, but it just doesn't make any sense. Maybe if the price were the Imperium rather than the species... I could see them being okay with that.

>> No.55371379

>>55371169
>>omitting Know No Fear from the A-team
Like so many of Abnett's books, he runs out of space and rushes the ending. But it really is a good one.

>> No.55371436

>>55371358
>But it was better than the old fluff in which Horus gets possessed by a daemon in that lodge on Davin
That was better than the new fluff where it's made clear Horus chose to rebel with his own free will. At least being possessed by a daemon explains his 180 turn from bro-tier favoured son to galaxy burning patricidal psychopath.

>> No.55371469

>>55371436
They could've done a mix, with Horus getting possessed, but managing to throw it out but continue with the heresy because he's been corrupted in the meanwhile.

But no, they had to do that with Fulgrim

>> No.55371480

>>55371358
BL could just don't show how Chaos Gods(or Erebus) convinced Horus to betray Emperor.
That's why I prefer FW writting, they leave some mysteries, instead of giving some retarded motivations.

>> No.55371617

>>55371469
I like how CSM codex is ignoring BLack Library books.
All editions of CSM dex in Noise Marines part tell us that it was Horus who corrupted Fulgrim and EC, in BL we have some sword from chaos influenced xeno world.

>> No.55371689

>>55371617
I get the feeling that whoever is writing the CSM codex (Phil Kelly, etc) has a beef with Graham Mcneill, and therefore refuses to acknowledge or read his books

>> No.55371691

>>55371617
And the codex came out more recently so it overrides the novels. The Alpha Legion now joined Horus out of martial pride. Problem solved everyone.

>> No.55371837

>>55371689
I'm curious who is writing the new codexes. Remember when in first page of codex all persons who worked on it were listed?
Good times.

>> No.55372067

>>55359063
Not that anon, but I'm guessing you're talking about the red?

Looks kind of like the base is Mephiston Red washed with Nuln Oil and given a very fine edge highlight/drybrush of either more Mephiston Red or a similarly vivid red.

If what you're nervous about with painting is thinning, try to use Air paints where you can. Just pop in a few drops of tap water into the little container thing, shake vigorously before starting, and presto. You have thinned paint that can be used from the pot with tabletop results.

>> No.55372962

>>55371691
>The Alpha Legion now joined Horus out of martial pride
Yes, this so much.

>> No.55372994

>>55340141
FREE
R
E
E

>> No.55373059

>>55370015
Consider dropping the heavy flamer on the Grave Wardens, the nade launchers are good enough and more flexible. You already got some overwatch goodness.

>> No.55373621

>>55322346

Raven Guard player who has just bought BaC: What should I do with my Cataphractii?

> Paint them as Deliverers and accept that they will never see the table
> Paint them as Pale Nomads and run them in allied Blackshields
> Paint them up as World Eaters / Justaerin because they look tasty and might be future projects
> Sit on them for another rainy day
> eBay

Picture unrelated but inspiring.

>> No.55373828

>>55359063
Mephiston Red basecoat, wash with reikland fleshshade, another coat with Mephiston Red but leave recesses shaded. Then I use Evil Sunz Scarlett to highlight and lastly Bright Orange from Vallejo for specific fine highlights.
I also use nuln oil for certain recesses.

>> No.55373857

>>55373621
Deliverers. Take Furious Charge and power axes, along with a Forge Lord for rad grenades. Now you're Instant Deathing 2W Terminators!

Reastically, you'll only use them in ZM games but that's perfectly fine.

>> No.55373899

>>55360970
Every fucking time that I post the image, you come and comment on it. Also, the answer is yes.

>> No.55373948

>>55373621
Give them Raven's Talons and stick them into a Phobos, Dreadclaw or a Drop Pod (depending on your RoW).

>> No.55374030

>>55373857

Wouldn't it just be easier to pay the 5pts for Power Fists? Otherwise I'm banking on wiping them out on the charge, not to mention the Forge Lord costing 95pts on his own.

>> No.55374127

>>55374030
Yeah, it would be. I guess I had lightning claws in mind for some silly reason.

>> No.55375332

>>55373948

That puts them at 60/55pts each for something that does the same job as a Fury, but worse.
I keep trying to make them work but they are just horrible for RG. The closest I can find to a role for them is spanking Custodes/better Termies by rolling Power Fists and Rad Grenades in Cataphractii Armour. At this point, LA:RG is worthless and hence my interest in running them as Blackshields.
> Predation Fleet: Outlanders
> Blackshield Chaplain
> Marauders with Chainaxes/Shotguns
> Terminators with Rad Grenades

Talons are just crazy expensive. Claws are for mulching MEQs, which is done infinitely better at I5 by Furies. As said, the only role I can think of is in hulkbusting units that I cannot just hose down with Plasma.
I find that this happens a lot with Ravens; Anything that is not either in Power Armour or transporting them, is just a bit shitty in comparison to other Legions.

>> No.55375556

>>55375332
>Claws are for mulching MEQs, which is done infinitely better at I5 by Furies.
Furies aren't 2+/4++ and scoring. Just use the termis as a fire magnet for capturing the closest objective to your deployment and protecting it against deepstriking infantry. I would just leave them naked with axes they would be AP 2 and wound marines on a 2+ the turn they charge in.

>> No.55375876

If you're focused on close combat then you want Tartaros.

Cataphractii are ideal for coming down in a Dreadclaw, surviving a turn of shooting, and then unloading melta or plasma weapons into something. Then charging, because why not, but they're mostly about that round of shooting.

>> No.55375920

DEAD GAME GENERAL
DEADER THAN AOS

>> No.55376785

>>55375920
Nah, 30k events are doing better than ever. It's only FW's team that's dead and for the most part that's temporary.

>> No.55376829

>>55376785
> It's only FW's team that's dead and for the most part that's temporary.
Unfortunate choice of words there anon.

>> No.55376922

>>55375920
AOS isn't dead at all. WHFB is though.

>> No.55377052

>>55376829
Zombie Bligh will deliver us from 8E

>> No.55377053

>>55376829
"For the most part" either excludes Bligh or implies that he'll be coming back as a zombie missing some parts. He'll probably still be a better writer than most of the GW studio.

>> No.55377073

>>55377052
>>55377053
If he's on the lookout for brains he'll have to leave the office.

>> No.55377095

>>55376922
>WHFB is though.
their general moves way faster than ours

>> No.55377140

>>55377095
Theirs was a core game. Ours is niche because it's stupid expensive and we're idiots for buying into it. Not that I'd stop.

95% of us came over from 40k, so naturally we're all going to take a look at that game as it changes edition. I don't think 8th works as well as it was supposed to, so I suspect a lot of 30k players will come back here but it'll take time.

>> No.55377274

>>55371691
>>55372962
Thats what they want you to think

>> No.55377389

>>55377140
>mfw everyone always bitches about FW being expensive
>mfw I'm buying all the legit FW I want because I can literally buy dozens of kits from FW for the cost of a single performance upgrade for my track car that I'm too impatient to save up for

Either everyone that plays this game is scraping by paycheck to paycheck or has a wife. There's no way a working adult can't afford resin toys.

>> No.55377396

>>55377389
>Working
>2017

>> No.55377405

>>55377396
Even welfare checks can buy multiple kits a month, since you just use your separate food stamps balance to buy food :^)

>> No.55379212

>>55377389
It's not that I can't afford the kits, more that I have a hard time telling myself that it makes sense to pay $60 (US) for a single power armored character model. I have the $60, but goddamn.

>> No.55379622

Had a counts-as idea for Blackshields with pariah gear:

Primaris Reivers with Mk IV helmets and bolt carbines.

Yea/nay?

>> No.55380170

Legion: Iron Hands
Rite Of War: The Head of The Gorgon

Iron Father, Thunder Hammer, Storm Bolter, Digital Lasers, MC, Cataphractii Armour

Castrmen Orth

2 Apothecaries, Augury Scanners

7 man Gorgons, 3 chainfists and 1 heavy flamer

Sniper Vets, 2 Heavy Flamers, 3 Combi-Flamers, AA+Axe+Combi-Flamer sarge

Sniper Vets, 2 Plasma Guns, 2 Combi-Plasma, AA+Maul+Combi-Plasma sarge

2 Tactical Squads, Extra CCW, fist sarges, Rhinos with dozers+Combi-Meltas

2 Vindicator Squadrons, 2 Vindicators each, extra Combi-Bolter, PoTMS, Dozer Blades

Mastodon Heavy Assault Transport, Super-Heavy Command Tank, 4xHunter-Killer Missiles

Any thoughts on this? Its for a narrative event, too strong, too weak?

>> No.55380285

My Volkite carrying SA are gonna be black with white highlights and guns, Iron Hands style. What color should the "charge" on their Volkites be?

>> No.55380326

what would the most waac list for world eaters be?

>> No.55380416

>>55379622
(You)

>> No.55380457

>>55380170
Drop orth drop the gorgons for a temptor and normal termis and a primus

>> No.55380467

>>55380285
Orange

>> No.55380543

>>55380416
>And lo, Bligh gazed down from the heavens at the marvel of his life's work/and to the gathered angels uttered he,
>"fucking autists god fucking damn it all those shits"

>> No.55380672

>>55380457
particular reasons why?

>> No.55380689

>>55379622
Would be kinda neat, but would be even better if you had Fabius as a Primus Medicae to represent why they are so big. Plus Chymaere for glorious +1 s/t

>> No.55380712

>>55380689
>waacfag options

>> No.55380741

>>55377073
S A V A G E
A
V
A
G
E

>> No.55380839

>>55380672
Orth because you said it was a narrative event gorgons because normal termis do their job adequately for less point's temptor to make the unique ability of the mastodon more useful

>> No.55380898

>>55380712
It does make sense for the army, anon, why are you being a shitter.

>> No.55381207

>>55375920
the only things thats dead is your meme

>> No.55381322

Reporting in from yesterday's AGM, I had a chance to wheedle out some info about HH, much of it being stuff we already knew:

The writing side of things has been on pause while they update the rules (which are at the printers now) following the release of 8th and because of Alan's death. I don't get any sense that they're intending to update to 8th in future.

They consider themselves about a third of the way through and that there's another decade of material to come.

Nothing plastic is in the pipeline for HH. It's not impossible in future, but don't expect anything for at least the next year or two.

>> No.55381430

>>55381322
Sounds promising

>> No.55381476

>>55381430

>sticking in 7th
>no more plastic support
>promising

>> No.55381664

>>55381476
Not to drag up that discussion again but some people prefer 7th to 8th

>> No.55381726

What do anons use for making their lists?
I was trying with battlescribe, but it lags to infinity when I try (works well with 40k).

>> No.55381751

>>55381322
Rules at the printers is at nice to hear. I also like that this news implies that although 30k might be recieving less attention for a while (which is totally understandable), the game will still remain supported in the long term.

>>55381476
>My 3k points of RG will remain playable for at least another decade
>This is bad news

>> No.55381768

>>55381664

A pretty small minority of hardcore grognards, though they are very loud and vocal. They may account for the core of 30k players, but as experience with WHFB shows they're also a static group who spend less and less money on the hobby over time. Sticking with 7th virtually guarantees that the HH playerbase will shrink rather than grow, and GW's willingness to invest in the product is only going to continue so long as it remains profitable. In time it'll end up like LotR/hobbit - supported, but only minimally.

>> No.55381773

>>55381726
Personally, I use battlescribe for 30k, although it can be a bit laggy at times

>> No.55381791

>>55381751

The decade of material thing is just the amount they think they could squeeze out of it. I think he might have even used a phrase like 'if people keep buying it' when he said that. Like I say in >>55381768, a dwindling playerbase is the biggest danger 30k faces.

>> No.55381949

>>55381768
I agree hh might seem to have grown in recent month's but that was just the last 40k stragglers comming over- the rest and new blood are going to "grow up on 8th ed material and probably find the transfer to hh to be weird- but I'd argue that an even bigger problem going forward is seeing if French can keep it close to the Bligh style we all fell in love with. Or if we are going to look back fondly at inferno as the end of the good heresy and the beginning of the end

>> No.55381955

>>55379212
They need to sell those fucks without the huge diorama that you're not even supposed to use in game. That thing is easily 33% of the cost if not more.

>> No.55382309

>>55381664
It's 100% okay to hate or be unsatisfied with 8E.

It's 100% retarded to prefer 7E over 8E.

>> No.55382417

>>55371337
>I dropped Angels of Caliban right away after turbo cringing at the Dreadwing's "WE HAVE COME! WE ARE DEATH!" segment
It's like the entire legion is autistic.

>> No.55382521

>>55381949
Well, French wrote the Iron Warriors and Imperial Fists fluff for Extermination. So that gives you a taste of what his writing is like.

Also he has clear biases which will colour what comes next. Expect the Iron Warriors to be absolute retards when he writes the Tallarn book.

>> No.55382576

>>55381949
Just as long as Bligh had pretty much finished Angelus's fluff I can rest easy.

>> No.55382642

>>55382576
He didn't. He barely finished Inferno's fluff before he got too sick to write any more.

>> No.55382656

>>55382642
Great. Dangles, Bangles and Scars will get to eat shit.

>> No.55382663

>>55382417
MAn if you take out that section and Curze's 'babys taste nice' section you have a pretty good book.

>> No.55382679

>>55381949

I don't know, I struggle to see anybody who hasn't already got into HH deciding to go back to 7th now that 8th is out there, or any new players deciding to make the transition. That leaves the existing players, and the problem there is that a lot of them have most of their armies already. Is >>55381751 going to spend the kind of money he dropped on his 3k of RG all over again? Without new players sales will drop, and if sales drop then the resources that they put into the game might bleed away. The reason that they dropped specialist games in the first place was because they had a limited design team and decided to put their efforts into the most profitable ranges. GW have split off a dedicated specialist games team so that won't happen again, but that doesn't mean that 30k wont lose out to BB, Necromunda, Titanicus, BFG, Shadespire etc if those things are providing better returns.

>> No.55382735

>>55382663
>Curze's 'babys taste nice'
Why do people hate that line so much? Curze was probably just fucking with Lion.

>> No.55382763

>>55382735
Yes, we all know Curze prefers rat meat.

>> No.55382770

>>55382735
Because whether Curze was telling the truth or fucking with the Lion it's still a cringy thing to say. You'd think a 'genius' 200 year old demi-god would have something a bit more impressive to say.

>> No.55382838

>>55382679
My entire (4 People group) decided to stick to seventh instead of 8th so it's not impossible to play eight and choose to play seventh - especially if fw fixes the few core issues of seventh

>> No.55383068

>>55382770
Curze is mentally challenged and an edge lord from having eaten the brains of criminals instead of just stealing Nostraman Noodles TM.

>> No.55383657

>>55382679
I can't speak for others, but I prefer 30k to 40k because of the models and the story. Rules be damned. I still need to finish some stuff for my RG, but I've already got plans for a 3k WB force for fluffier games against loyalists.

>> No.55383689

>>55382309
What ways is 8th better than 7th?

>> No.55383720

>>55383689
Mostly so far it doesn't have any codex creep and lacks the game breaking formations.

>> No.55383755

>>55383689
I prefer the weapon profiles with armour modifiers and the to hit modifier for cover.

Most other things are imo a downgrade. Many people list the lack of formations as another positive but formations were never a thing in HH anyway so it's a non-issue.

>> No.55383808

>>55383755
I thought that there wasn't any to hit modifier for cover, doesn't it just give +1 to the armour save?

>> No.55383810

>>55383720
That's because they updated the whole game. Give it a few years.

>> No.55383840

>>55383810
Oh I will

>> No.55383846

>>55383808
Shit, yeah that's what I meant.

>> No.55385679

>>55352148
Prospero Burns and A Thousand Sons were my favorite so far, idk if that makes me a pleb or not but fuck it.

I think i started Legion, shamefully i havent done any /tg/ stuff in ages due to redecorating and only having time for vidya or sleeping in between work and house shit.

>> No.55386856

>>55383720

> What is Roboute Guilliman
> What are special characters being the same cost or cheaper than vanilla despite flat upgrades

>> No.55386910

>>55379622
The armor's too modern-looking for Blackshields, imo. Or for 30k in general.

>> No.55387147

>>55380285
Blue.

>>55381768
I prefer 7th and I'm just starting. Not much of a scene where I live, but the podcasts have helped me find stores about an hour away that do play it.

I'm not convinced that it'll be much harder to get new players after 40k's change. Most of the people coming into 30k were veteran 40k players who had played during 2nd-5th edition, rather than those new to 7th. That means that in the next five years, most of the 40k players who we'd expect to try Heresy would have played during 6th and 7th. We were never going to get the really new guys. After about five years... yeah, could be an issue. By then every army should be out, so it might be a good time for a rules change.

The bigger issue is going to be model scale. I don't see FW going to Primaris-sized (or even Deathwatch-sized) marines anytime soon, and that'll be a bigger stumbling block for new 40k players.

>> No.55387215

>>55381726
I can't stand Battlescribe. It takes a million years to assign combiweapons to a veteran squad because each dude takes a few steps to arm and there's lag between each step. It's often unclear how large you've made the unit (is the sergeant included or not?). The output is abysmal. The UI hasn't been updated in years.

I'm using Quartermaster. I think it's still iOS only, which sucks.

>> No.55387282

>>55386856
> Mostly

>> No.55387330

>>55381322
>don't expect anything for at least the next year

Just in time for Angelus.

>> No.55387394

>>55383689
It's not 4 editions worth of patches and guff piled onto 3e.

>> No.55387571

So I bought this guy on a whim, looks like I might be starting an Iron Warriors army!

any CnC would be nice

are there any plans for 30k to be adapted to the new edition? I only play with a few people and none of them have HH armies so I was thinking about calling my army a group of maybe-loyalists who fought in the heresy and through warp shenanigans ended up in the current era

>> No.55387984

>>55387571
Clean it up, rather sloppy job. And FW has no plans on making HH played by people in the near future. Also your excuse for playing HH with 40k armies is just dumb, play with them anyway without silly fluff.

>> No.55388030

New
>>55388027
>>55388027
>>55388027

>> No.55388035

>>55387984
alright fuck you too then

>> No.55388062

>>55387984
Cunt

>>55387571
A highlight on the brass edges would do a lot. Also getting more colours on the face to texture it a bit.
The hazard stripes on his crotchguard are a little wonky. You could neaten them, or to be honest it looks out of place. A black/heraldry one could be better.

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