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[ERROR] No.53111916 [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

Rolled 12 (1d26)

Word Bearer Problems edition
Paragon Chainmace subedition

Imp Fists forgot their Terminators, HH is for awesome, robot bullying occurred and SW are considered worst Legion. Lorgar got smacked down by Magnus and Ferrus but still did a better job. Emps is a dog person and Praetors argued about swords or hammers. Ashen Circle are lackluster choppy but excellent bullies, and Erebus and Kor still can't find a purpose in life. All this and more in the last thread >>53095866

>Thread FAQ
http://pastebin.com/iUqNrrA8

>Official HH 7th Edition Errata (not updated since January 2016)
http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/resources/fw_site/fw_pdfs/Horus_Heresy/Horus_Heresy_7th_Edition.pdf

>30k TACTICA & TIPS
What to include in a HH list, how to format it, what makes each legion special (crunch), tactics, Tutorials for Heresy-era minis and more
http://pastebin.com/Tm2P4QLp

>HH Books, Novels and Rulebooks galore
http://pastebin.com/k9uvqsub
https://sys.4chan.org/derefer?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.docdroid.net%2Ffz1OuHK%2Fcrusade-imperialis-army-lists.pdf.html
https://sys.4chan.org/derefer?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.docdroid.net%2FZTK72gs%2Flegiones-astartes-age-of-darkness-army-list.pdf.html
https://sys.4chan.org/derefer?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmega.nz%2F%23F!BxI1HSgI!0tKymKh9RZTzGpgIA5EyCg

>/HHG/'s Legion demographics
http://www.strawpoll.me/10558764

>/HHG/'s allegiances
www.strawpoll.me/10663447

>Primarch Popularity Poll
http://www.strawpoll.me/11458318

>STUFF ANONS ASK FOR
http://www49.zippyshare.com/v/aYWlVV9f/file.html
http://www32.zippyshare.com/v/heDZWytT/file.html
http://www.mediafire.com/file/sc266oa6al1jb7o/the-binary-succession.mp3

>> No.53111926

First for anybody got ideas for a good IF list? Tryina encompass all the aspects and themes that make them oh-so-loveable, while still keeping a solid list overall.

Imperial Fists: Pride of the Legion
>Praetor: Terminator Armor, Paragon Blade, Storm Shield, Digital Weapons

>Templar Brethren: 7 Templars, Solarite Power Gauntlet, LR Phobos
>Templar Brethren: 7 Templars, Solarite Power Gauntlet, Rhino
>Apothecarion Detachment: 2 Medicae, Power Swords
>Legion Rapiers: 3 Laser Destroyer Arrays

>Terminator Squad: 3 Power Fists, 2 Chain Fists, Iliastus Assault Cannon, Teleportation Transponder
>Terminator Squad: 3 Power Fists, 2 Chain Fists, Iliastus Assault Cannon, Teleportation Transponder
>Veteran Tactical Squad: 7 Veterans, Combi-Weapons, Rhino
>Veteran Tactical Squad: 7 Veterans, Combi-Weapons, Rhino

>3 Javelin Landspeeders

>Deredeo Dreadnought: Plasma Cannonade
>Sicarian Battle Tank: Lascannon Sponsons, Dozer Blade
>Vindicators: Dozer Blade, Machine Spirit

So I like it a lot, my only thought/concern is that the rhino Templars might be a bit useless, maybe it'd be a little more advantageous to grab a third terminator Squad and some nuncio-voxes instead?

Also it's really disappointing Champion Consuls suck so much, 35 points for effectively nothing (especially with Fists since the power gauntlet is better and has MC base) suuuucks. At least with like UM or something you can grab one of those swanky axes.

>> No.53111978

>>53111926
>templar brethren in a rhino
Honestly, probably better not to take the squad at all if you can't afford the points for an assault vehicle for them.

>> No.53111997

>Praevian finished
>Vorax and Castellax Achea on their way over
oh baby

>> No.53112032

>>53111997
Which legion's robutts?

Actually, which legions particularly like their robutts , and what robutts do they prefer in particular?

Presumably IW and IH, but who else?

>> No.53112091

>>53111978
Yeah, good point. Thanks friendo

>> No.53112099

>>53112032
The other Thousand sons players by me are doing the same Sehkmet terminator lists so I'm going to mix it up by tossing in robots

>> No.53112124

>>53112032
>being a powergamer
PLASTIC WAS A MISTAKE

>> No.53112670

>>53112124
How on earth did you get that from that post?

>> No.53112751

Why was the Emperor so anime in Master of Mankind with his flaming sword and teleporting?

>> No.53112844

>>53112751
inb4 adb hateposting

>> No.53112906

>>53112751
inb4 hate adbposting

>> No.53112918

So I'm redesigning that >>53111926 list without the second Templar squad, and with the extra 90 or so points I put some power weapons in my vet squads. Is this a good idea? Power swords/axes make a as a good charge deterrent as anything, but at the same time I doubt it'll be all that effective. Ideas?

>>53112751
inb4 posting adbhate

>> No.53112927

>>53112670
It's simple. Nothing bad ever happened in 30k when it was just resin, ergo everything bad came to it because of plastic 30k kits.

>> No.53112943

>>53112927
All the robutts are resin tho

>> No.53112972

>>53112751
GOSH DO I HATE ADB.

>> No.53113024

>>53112943
Doesn't matter, there's plastic 30k Marines, so 30k is shit now.

>> No.53113037

>>53112918
A hidden (i.e. not on the sergeant) axe or two can help, but you may be overspending on them, with combiweapons & powerweapons and so on when you don't even have full squads. Don't forget, 10 IF marksmen vets with just bolters are still pretty darn effective. Most people only put combiweapons on every model when they intend the unit as a suicide team (drop in, kill something costing more than them, die). So, what role do you actually have in mind for those two squads?

>>53113024
I blame ADB.

>> No.53113055

>>53112943
As are quad-mortars and Spartans, which I would argue are considerably less fun than the tac blob lists that Calth and Prospero encourage

Also, why are boops considered cancer? They have very little dakka or choppy for cost, honestly, and they're predictable and easily tarpitted since they can't Sweeping advance. I play Reductor, but the Vorax I like to use tend to be gunned down fairly easily.

>> No.53113082

>>53113055
>PotL lists that Calth and Prospero encourage

FTFY

>> No.53113137

>>53113082
>Chosen Duty lists that Calth and Prospero encourage

FTFY

Joking aside, I don't think plastic marines are the main cause of vet spam, I honestly think the red book is. Vets are so damn economical for what you get, and tacs are so pants at anything not standing on an objective getting shot in the face, that it's not a surprise people swap out their tacs for vets.

>> No.53113147

>>53112844
>>53112906
>>53112918
ADB A SHIT

>> No.53113167

>>53112032
>Presumably IW and IH, but who else?
Kek. IW Legion Inductees gives nothing to the bots, since they're already Fearless and lack meltabombs. It's weird how Narik Dreygur functions better as a Sallie mind-slave than as a regular IW legionnaire.
Best robbuts is like asking for best LA rules. Not only it's asking what is the best combination of ranged, melee and positioning, but it's more about what you want. If you want "best" then play Memestodes or something like that.

>> No.53113279

>>53113037
My thought with the vets was to either give them sniper/tank hunters based off what I'm going against,

For the combiguns, I just figured melta would be good, though plasma/flamer could be fun too (that sillyass sniper-flame thing is hilarious imo). IDK of maybe it's better to do all power weapons with a few combis, or all combis with a few weapons, or just base, or somewhere in between

>> No.53113287

>>53113082
Well, that is what you can get out of the box, but I don't think making it possible to get lots of marines cheaply is going to exactly discourage the builds that use lots of Marines. Vets are just too good for cost.

>> No.53113362

>>53113137
>I honestly think the red book is. Vets are so damn economical for what you get, and tacs are so pants at anything not standing on an objective getting shot in the face, that it's not a surprise people swap out their tacs for vets.
Agreed. Tacticals aren't even the best at holding points, that's a job mortals do better (36" Lasrifles of rerollable Ld10, 50 Stubborn/Fearless Levies or Fearless+FnP+Revival thralls). Bolters just don't cut it, despoilers are pretty much assault marines on foot, and the biggest offender is that the only squads that matter, 20-man ones, need an attached Elites/Fast/Heavy option to be viable, lest they're shot off the squad by the AP3+ artillery the Ispace Gstartes are known for.

Meanwhile, Veterans are tacticals that only cost +15pts when compared to a similarly equipped tactical squad, swap Fury of the Legion for Sniper & Outflank / Machine killers and have access to power and special weapons, and don't need a huge transport or apothecary to be able to reach the enemy.

Who wouldn't want them?
This is FW's fault, and they will NEVER fix it. Not even 8E will, mark my words.

>> No.53113445

EC-dude here. I've been working mostly with Calth sets because MkIV marines, but I was able to pick up a box of Tartaros termies for $40. Should I go full lightning claw with them, or kit them out slightly different?

>> No.53113452

>>53113167
>If you want "best" then play Memestodes or something like that.
That's a fair point - I think Bio-Corrosive Vorax would be cool in DG - don't know if it'd be all that good, but I can never resist an opportunity for chem/bio weapons

>> No.53113648

>>53113452
Going by the cool factor, now that's something I can comment on. DG really up the biochem scope of their weaponry.
Battle Automata gain a FnP against poison on top of their rerolling of poison damage. Bio-corrosive rounds will mean you can only shoot prior to the assault, but Vorax' Scout is a good complement to the slow DG in the Reaping. Give the Praevian rad grenades and Vorax S6 will scythe the enemy.

>> No.53113696

>>53113362
Also also, you can stick an apothecary with a vet squad and still fit them in a rhino, if you want objective campers.

>> No.53113789

Why does Hvarl Red-Blade have a heavy bolter if he's in tartaros armour?

>> No.53113848

>>53113789
Why does Polux have a storm shield when he's in power armour?
Special characters do what they will and generics suffer what they must.

>> No.53113887

>>53113789
Rule of cool.
Also maybe a reference to the 3rd Edition wolf codex where Wolf Guard Battle Leaders could take heavy weapons.

>> No.53113902

>>53113445
Full Lightning Claw is certainly going to make a dent in something with all those attacks, but you may want to include some fists to prevent them from getting bogged down by dreadnoughts and the like.

>> No.53113905

>>53113848
The man speaks truth, although I'll admit we Mech generics have it better than most.

>> No.53114001

>>53113445
they traitors right?

>> No.53114051

>>53113902
How does three claws and two chainfists together with flamer and plasma blaster sound?

>> No.53114075

>>53113902
So maybe 3 2xLC 2 PF? I'm planning on using my Tartaros more for infantry CC mulching, while I have my Cataphractii outfitted with chainfists for armor killing (2nd squad being built, 5 powerfists so I can mix and match the two).

Also, is it worthwhile giving one of the Tartaros an autocannon, or should I stick to combi-bolters?

>> No.53114083

>>53113905
Besides Scoria, your characters (all three :^)) give up something, so no not really.
Satarael has a Djinn Skein and is an Archimandrite but with a worse-than-Angron save of 3+ and no real invuln. Even Kastellans have a better invuln than him.
Decima get his scrapcode scream and EW, but has shit stats and can't get a 3++ like generic characters, and corrupted his force with his anger despite lacking a Djinn-skein. He's only good for suicide drops and the Droplites are better at it.
And Draykavac's former job was to be a Scoria, so now nobody even thinks of him.

>> No.53114090

>>53114001
Only loyalists here my dude.

>> No.53114093

>>53113648
When you think the death guard will be slow, but then their asshole captain scouts out of fucking nowhere (did mortarion teach him that) with his fucking bug robots and now you're going down in a hail of radiation and bio-acid bullets

>> No.53114112

>>53114090
From now on you're the Honour of your Legion. Carry that with you wherever you go.

>> No.53114123

>>53114112
F
Never Forget Isstvan

>> No.53114127

>>53114090
you the guy with the tumbler?

>> No.53114168

>>53114112
>>53114090
whats with all the loyalist EC doesnt anyone want to seek perfection through ecstacy
>all hail slaanesh/fulgrim
also Ideas for traitor marines like conversions i've added some flayed skin to some marines what else would show they are traitors

>> No.53114175

>>53114112
>Carry that with you wherever you go.
First stop, Isstvan III. Future tour dates cancelled.

>> No.53114222

>>53114083
Ah, fair point. I'm trying to decide whether Xander uses the rules of a generic Archimandrite or Satarael. Archimandrite is tougher and doesn't waste points on Cybernetica bonuses, but Satarael is more on theme with his teleport trick and lets me bring those bane-mask bio-Castellax as an honour guard.

>> No.53114251

>>53114168
>whats with all the loyalist EC doesnt anyone want to seek perfection through ecstacy
GLORY IS LOYALTY PERFECTED
One thing is the completely understandable pursuit of perfection, and other is the unhealthy obsession with it. Ideals may deal in absolutes, but execution must never deal in extremes.
>Ideas for traitor marines
For ECs? Grills, faces, xenos blades (even if they're not traitors). Medals stitched on flayed skin.

>> No.53114255

>>53114051
You're only allowed 1 special weapon, unless you're going for a 10-man squad.
Or did you mean a Combi-flamer?

>>53114075
something like that yes, the fists are purely there to kill stuff that's too hard for your LCs.

>> No.53114339

>>53114251
yeah good idea. I may be the only Traitor EC cause no one likes depraved perfectionists or slaanesh in general, but I think the themes are a beautiful drama and I love fulgrim.

>> No.53114346

>>53114251
I love this bit of lore.

>> No.53114363

>>53114127
are you?

>> No.53114393

>>53114255
Wew my bad I should sleep more. I meant a heavy flamer and the sergeant carrying a volkite charger

>> No.53114416

>>53114339
Traitor is always best.

>> No.53114419

>>53114393
That'll work, sounds like a plan.

>> No.53114433

>>53114339
I'd say there are more traitor EC than loyalist out there. Lots of people love being able to run Fulgrim, Eidolon, and/or Kakophoni. Loyalists just show up a lot here in /hhg/ because I've been posting my very slow poor-fag army building process, and I don't hesitate to rep my colors.

>> No.53114507

>>53114251
>>53114346
loved the audio dramas expanding the Massacre
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VUhIGp08XYE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4r-e8miAn68&list=PLL9EzFPYdLAMk1xV-5IqTZdo7BkNDPeGQ
Traitor Legion Loyalists still the most tragic tho

>> No.53114516

>>53114433
I don't know, man, sometimes it seems like there are more loyalist armies from traitor legions than there are traitor armies.

>> No.53114533

>>53114433
I like being the Traitor EC around here makes me feel like a special snowflake. i've always loved the darker and more dramatic armies like dark eldar and eldar. I had been playing 40k EC for a while with daemonette allies. but I for some reason started to find HH really interesting and filled with sad Drama. btw do you have apic of your whole army I just started HH and only have a 10 man of mk III marines but i'm planning on getting betrayal at carth

>> No.53114539

>>53114516
Has anyone ever played traitors from loyalist legions?

>> No.53114596

>>53114539
Those guys don't exist. It's only Loyalists fro traitor legions, traitors and everloyalists.
I could easily help fluffing them if someone claims "that's hard", but I myself am not really interested in those.

>> No.53114675

>>53114539
No. Because the only justification that can be given for loyalist going traitor is "I'm too stupid and/or scared" there's no Freudian neglect dynamic in play and people are naturally inclined to side with authority over rebellion unless the authority treated them like shit.

>> No.53114719

>>53114539
>>53114596
>>53114675
Some Spoilers
One of the Garro audiobooks has a bunch of White Khans that sided with Horus tho
Also in White Scars a lot of the hierarchy was pro Horus and even killed some brothers while trying to contact him (Khan was on Prospero at the time)

>> No.53114744

>>53114719
Yeah, but no one plays white scars

>> No.53114746

>>53114596
>>53114675
It must be because the Emperor was right in everything He did.

>> No.53114767

>>53114746
Don't you try to turn me into ADB

>> No.53114768

>>53114596
>Those guys don't exist
There are some after the Heresy, like the Red Corsairs, but that's a different matter.

What I want to see, though I know there's no such thing and why, is Loyalist Word Bearers.

>> No.53114771

>>53114719
I mean it as in, the guys that would play traitors from loyalist legions don't exist. Except that elusive traitor RG I've heard of.
>>53114746
>It must be because the Emperor was right in everything He did.
He did make the yiffs :^)

>> No.53114775

>>53114744
A curse on FW for pricing bikes even more horrendously than everything else they sell, and also for making their jetbikes look the shittiest way possible.

>> No.53114804

>>53114771
>He did make the yiffs
Friendly reminder that the Vlka Fenryka are automatically in the top 9 legions no matter what anyone says about them.

>> No.53114821

>>53114804
bjorn plot armor duh

>> No.53114825

>>53114804
Sorry anon, there are only three legions that can be said to be better than the others.

>> No.53114855

>>53114825
He's saying top 9 because they remained loyalists, anon.
>>53114804
I love this pic. But man, last thread was savage on SJWs.

>> No.53114864

>>53114825
I agree completely.
Basically there are four tiers.
>defenders of Terra
>loyalist but poor at time management
>traitor shits
>word bearers

>> No.53114912

>>53114864
I know what you did there anon and to answer your unasked question:
Yes, Word Bearers are the best

>> No.53114913

>>53114825
Ultramarines, Ultramarines and Ultramarines

>> No.53114940

>>53114913
I really want to read nuScouring, and Dorn disowning his Ultrabrother.
>You.Weren't.There

>> No.53114962

>>53114940
Nah. Dorn failed his dad and he knows it. He's too dutiful to blame others.

>> No.53115017

>>53114913
Nice try bucko.

>> No.53115030

>>53114962
Are you Dorn? Because you appear to not be listening.
Never said he didn't fail the Emperor. He blames himself more than any other on the Imperium, even more than Horus.
But that doesn't mean he's not angry at his brother for not bothering for showing up, especially after Sanguinius did arrive and gave his life for the Emperor.
And Dorn is prone to disowning stuff, just ask his First Captain.

>> No.53115034

>>53113137
>
hypocritical faggots like radio faggotry intensifies are the problem - answering every list question with "take sniper vets" "take drop pods"

>> No.53115052

>>53114507
Me too. Anyone got the Unspoken short story, or the Shattered Legions collection?
It's about a Salamanders squad left trapped on Isstvan V, sequel to Unforged from Meduson.

>> No.53115079

>>53115034
>answering every list question with "take sniper vets" "take drop pods"
A truly balanced rulebook would not have those problems. FW doesn't have the excuse of not knowing what it wants to do of the heresy anymore. Fix when?

>> No.53115095

>>53115017
40kscale marines as primarchs in the HH Boardgame, good idea?

>> No.53115125

>>53115079
no game except Chess is balanced, never gonna happen.
It comes down to the players and encouraging people to play the broken shit just makes things worse

>> No.53115143

>>53114596
Every Legion had traitors, just like every Legion had loyalists.

>> No.53115166

>>53115143
We're talking about players

>> No.53115179

>>53115125
>no game except Chess is balanced
White is OP in chess.

>> No.53115187

>>53115125

>> No.53115231

>>53115187
> Numbers within 4% of each other
>Uses poorly proportioned chart to make it seem one sided
>Pretends that it's unbalanced

Nice try, newfag

>> No.53115275

>>53115187
52:48 is still more balanced than the vast majority of miniature wargames. I think it's impossible to make a perfectly 50:50 game, since one side always have to start, and that side decides what happens later in the game.

>> No.53115286

>>53115125
Then we could try for a less "Vet as Troops" approach. Because there's little incentive for using tacticals. Again, even mortals hold points better than them, and they're overshadowed by almost everything in their codex.

>> No.53115297

>>53115187
that's why both players get equal games playing white/black...
typical /tg/ retards once again showing their mental prowess

>> No.53115322

>>53115297
>Typical "Typical /tg/ retards" typicalling a /tg/ retard for all of /tg/
Typical.

>> No.53115325

>>53115297
Clearly then, to balance 30k we just need to institute a second game where both players fight with each others armies.
Hell, this works for 40k too.
40k and 30k are now balanced, and anyone who says otherwise is an idiot.

>> No.53115333

Life is unfair, let's cry about it while also promoting murder and corruption...
Good idea retards, keep blaming FW instead of the retards and hypocrites on all the podcasts and FB groups

>> No.53115334

>>53113279
I find to get the very most out of my vets is to keep em focused. Combi meltas, two missile launchers and machine killers means st9 spam, will usually take down some heavy stuff. Combi plasma with marksmen to outflank and delete heavy infantry and light vehicles. Combi flamers with marksmen to outflank and delete meqs with rending flamers.

Bonus points with alpha legion. Infiltrate from mutible tactics, combi meltas, bane strike ammo, and machine killers. You've got a squad that can now blast vehicles with st9 ap1 shots and blast meqs with ap3 rending from banestrike to make up for not having marksmen. If you really need to take down vehicles up close, give them tank hunters with mutible tactics. 10 st 9 ap1 shots that refill armor pen. Brutal.

Makes headhunters look expensive and useless.

>> No.53115359

>>53115333
Looks like the recent rise is podcast hate claims a trips.
Have you considered, y'know, not listening to them?

>> No.53115389

>>53115333
It's simply wrong to blame podcasts as the promotors of the meta when any fag with a spreadsheet and the rulesbook will reach the same conclusion, regardless of whatever podcastfags may blabber about.

>> No.53115396

>>53115325
good idea. make it so

>> No.53115434

>>53115389
genuinely believes ppl read the rulebook or use spreadsheets.
hint: they don't
they listen to podfags and youtube, then use battlescribe.

>> No.53115485

Given last thread this seems on topic. Do you think Angelus will have some glorious Word Bearer buffs? If it's going to add Daemon units to a lot of Traitors they might get something to stop them losing their only gimmick, right?

>> No.53115492

>>53115434

>> No.53115493

>>53114804

Friendly reminder that Ultramarines are in the top 1 greatest legions

>> No.53115507

>>53115493
Where's that from?

>> No.53115530

>>53115434
>battlescribe
If I had a penny for every time some chucklefuck blindly believes battlescribe over actually reading the books to find out what the points costs/options are, I could get a set of 10 shoulderpads from forgeworld.

>> No.53115543

>>53115507

not sure, it's the only profile picture i could find of praetor armor

>> No.53115555

I'm going to make my whole legion out of MK 3 with MK 4 heads and there is nothing you can do to stop me.

>> No.53115582

>>53115389
I work in corporate finance and I'd love to know if you made that template or if you got it somewhere. I'd love to do some points analytics on my army.

>> No.53115585

>>53115485
I wonder if other traitors will be forced into using one or two particular rites of war to unlock daemons, (a bit like dark brethren,) while word bearers will be able to take them alongside any army build without whatever restrictions the ROW applies. I do wish diabolists unlocked daemons though, not everyone wants to take named special characters.

>> No.53115588

>>53115555
You think your quads scare me?

>> No.53115601

>>53115493
>dad doesn't answer his calls for 10 seconds so you assume he's dead and build your own house
>best legion

>> No.53115615

>>53115555
Post pics when you're done, quads-kun, would be interested to see how that turns out. I think that Dantioch bloke did something like that, but those were legion-specific heads.

>> No.53115639

>>53115555
Does this mean you a friend with good taste who does it the other way round?

>> No.53115641

>>53112751
ADB killed my dog.

>> No.53115643

>>53115493
>Vetegap Selgept Julius Tgajlp
It's even more irritating than when people use the cyrilic "d" Д as an "a". Plebeian image, do not post it again.

>> No.53115666

>>53115601

>So strong, intelligent, and competent that you can build an interstellar empire at a moments notice to continue your fathers legacy.

Truly, Ultramarines are the best legion(and chapter).

>> No.53115667

>>53115582
I make my own spreasheets because I trust no one else's assumptions. You're that guy who answered "Master of Signals" on the Consul aptitude test back then, yes?
What army?

>> No.53115669

>>53114775
Yeah, I'm not sure what ForgeWorld's deal with phallic-shaped vehicles is. The Sky Hunter jetbikes, the Custodes jetbikes, the Sisters of Silence transports.

>> No.53115671

>>53115601
Basically this. Instead of racing for terra, Bobby G was more than happy to be numero uno in imperium secundus .

>> No.53115685

>>53115666
>That tiny head.

>> No.53115693

>>53115666
>have to get blood angels to actually lead it
>still didn't show up for terra despite being in the same room when they figure out emps is alive

>> No.53115694

>>53115667
are you talking about the master of signals with jump pack, power sword, and plasma pistol? If so then yes that's me.

>> No.53115699

>>53115034
So are drop pods unbalanced? I'm a bit new to the heresy, and I was going to make a drop pod list,but I don't want to play something that's too powerful.

>> No.53115707

>>53115669
Nature designed them to be ideal at penetrating defenses and letting loose an army. Why not emulate nature?

>> No.53115733

>>53115694
UM, then. I'll go get some food, but state your question. The Dodeka/tg/on's purpose is to discuss battle theory, after all.
>>53115707
This analogy makes me more scared of Power fists.

>> No.53115768

>>53115396
>>53115325
Time to bust out my good luck powder of cheetos.

>> No.53115781

>>53115693

>not wanting Glorious Sangy to be the figurehead of your new empire, while gully does the real work behind the scenes

Guilliman knew the recipe for perfect Governance

>>53115693

>still didn't show up for terra despite being in the same room when they figure out emps is alive

That's because they didn't even have to show up to help. Their impeding arrival was enough to make Horus panic and lower his shields in a desperate attempt to win, which led him to defeat. A feat only possible by
Emperor's finest

>> No.53115801

>>53115781
>wasn't even in the fight
>emperor's finest
???

>> No.53115810

>>53115768
May your models be sharp and carcinogenic.

>> No.53115825

>>53115781
>we were only pretending to be late/retarded!

>> No.53115835

>>53115781
>Guilliman knew the recipe for perfect Governance
He only asked Sanguinius to be Regent because otherwise the Lion would have seen him as the separatist he was, forging a secluded Empire for his own.

>> No.53115837

>>53115781
>absorbed the failed astartes of the shameful II and XI legions
>emperor's finest
???

>> No.53115871

>>53115835
Underrated

>> No.53115873

>>53115801
>>53115825

Its on such a high level of tactical brilliance that you lesser legions could never hope to understand it.

>>53115837

A logistical feat only the Ultramarines could achieve

>> No.53115884

>>53115733
Looking at your tables I think I have enough to work with. Thanks!

>> No.53115888

>>53115837
Shhh.
Horus may have betrayed the Emperor and all he stood for, but traitors still won't talk about the [REDACTED] legions ;^)

>> No.53115894

>>53115873
that one guy doesn't even have his helmet on
0/10 no discipline

>> No.53115914 [SPOILER] 

>>53115873
>Its on such a high level of tactical brilliance that you lesser legions could never hope to understand it.
I can't even tell if you're bein-
Hang on.

Now wait just one second here.

>> No.53115934

>>53115894
Agreed. This proves the UMs needed tons of discipline officers to control their hordes, and even with many of those and the pacifying effects of their genejizz they were found wanting :^)

>> No.53115977

>>53115914

Don't insult me by mistaking me for our third rate nemesis

>> No.53116003

>>53115585
Yeah, and having Lorgar doesn't let you take them, which is a bastard when you don't want a RoW or want to use a generic one. Maybe something where you form a Word Bearers battleline and then Daemons deepstrike in turn 2, with buffs to reserves and some form of offensive buff the turn they land? Like Sacrificial Offering, but with more damage-focus.
Say you can join Word Bearers Daemons (and anything with Burning Lore/Lorgar) to a Daemon unit in reserves, and those units are guided in to make reserve rolls on Turn 1 or Disordered Charge the turn they arrive. Landing units do something to fuck with your opponent or boost you, too, so you can drop in Lorgar with Gal Vorbak and a mixed force of Daemons in to suddenly be all up in their faces after taking a turn or two of hits on a weakened force, or bring them in Turn 1 at the cost of offensive output. Penalties are that you must put all your Codex:Daemons units in Reserve and there bust be at least 4 units in reserve, and the primary force must have one or more Psykers rolling or selecting from Malefic Demonology to call them in. Also, no mundane deepstriking from stuff like Ashens because Warp Storms fuck with that.

>> No.53116070

>>53116003
Last of the Gal Vorbak should give their deepstrike an explosion on arrival like the Dreadclaws, instead of forcing them to take dreadclaws.
And there should be a way to turn ICs other than Diabolists into daemons, so they can deepstrike alongside Vorbaks.

>> No.53116097

>>53116003
>>53116070
Argel Tal rules when?

>> No.53116126

>>53116070
I mentioned letting every Burning Lore character do that, but yeah, that makes sense. Gives some incentive to actually take WBs rather than min tax and then 12 MLs of Tzeench heralds to summon.

>> No.53116135

>>53116097
W-we already had this argument, WB-kun.
Your brother still lives in our hearts.

>> No.53116182

>>53116135
HE'S NOT DEAD DEMONS LIVE FOREVER EREBUS IS A SHIT

>> No.53116221

>>53116182
HE STILL LIVES IN OUR HEARTS, ANON. CARRY THAT WITH YOU WHEREVER YOU GO :'(

>> No.53116305

did traitor EC still deploy palatine blades?

>> No.53116373

>>53116182
Erebus did what was needed. It wasn't Argel Tal's fault but his old masted had to do everything at his hand to make sure the war wouldn't end in defeat

>> No.53116420

>>53115143

I haven't seen any IF traitors. I'm sure they must exist, right? Is there any fluff on Heresy era IF traitors?

>> No.53116450

>>53116305
Yeah, though I don't know for how long before they went full cocaine. They probably didn't get too many replacements as the Heresy wore on.

>> No.53116512

>>53115389
Whoa ho ho myrmidons OP?

>> No.53116561

>>53116512
You get what you pay for, and you're paying a lot. I wouldn't say OP, but the phased phrase "marine woodchipper" comes to mind.

>> No.53116608

>>53116373
It's one of the interesting divides between lorgar and erebus as the heresy goes on. More and more lorgar seems to use normal planning and his primarch's mind to make decisions, while erebus increasingly follows the signs and portents rather than his own military experience.

>> No.53116636

>>53114539
I fluffed up my Fist as traitors. The look when I play against my loyalist counter parts is always great.

>> No.53116679

>>53116512
They're not op, but good. I see them in most admech lists. They don't have the durability you might expect at first glance though. Plasma toting outriders or a well timed vet outflank can ruin them. It seems you have to kind of chess-piece them around. Making sure the enemies in range, or should I say, potential enemies in range can't really hurt them or the myrms can delete the threat that can hurt them to survive your opponents recourse.

>> No.53116846

>>53114768
Since Lorgar was the first to turn chaos, he purged his legion early, slow and quiet. The only explanation that kinda works are loyal word bearers that return after being thought lost in the warp.

>> No.53117035

Can someone post the big convoluted flowchart of the order to read the Horus Heresy books in?

>> No.53117097

>>53117035
The BL guide? If that's what you're talking about, here's the one I have saved.

>> No.53117347

>>53116679
I have destroyers, haven't got secutors. A myrmidon cult would be a fun taghmata theme to run.

>> No.53117393

I have a lot of old 28mm scenic bases, I've just noticed. I take it no one uses them at all anymore and it'd be a waste of time?

>> No.53117409

I'm leaning towards focusing my drawfagging on the femarchs, since they're more recognizable. Thing is, I have more development and background lore built up for my OCs, and also the femarchs might come across as a Warhammer High ripoff.
Thoughts? I promise anything I draw of anyone will at least be a slight improvement over this.

>> No.53117465

Why must Marauders be the same cost as ten Tacs for only five models. Why are Reaver Lords 40 points more than Praetors for the same profile. Does FW hate Blackshields?

>> No.53117527

>>53117347
Sounds sweet. The admech savants of war commit to a battle en masse. Myrmidax magos for sure.

>> No.53117536

>>53117409
>I promise anything I draw of anyone will at least be a slight improvement over this.
Bueno

>> No.53117556

>>53117409
Start off with a fem First-Company commander or two.

>> No.53117565

>>53117347
>A myrmidon cult would be a fun taghmata theme to run.
Myrmidon Cults are canon as well, but unlike Reductors they are condemned to be forever in the background.

>> No.53117581

>>53117393
I still use 28mm bases, because fuck switching hundreds of marines' finished bases and spending enough money on new bases to get two/three new armies.

Also 32mm bases are ugly as sin.

>>53117465
Well a Cortus Contemptor is only 10 points more than a boxnaught and gets +1 AV and 5++ front, and a special rule that makes it even better.
Custodes shield captains can take down primarchs without fear of ever dying to them for only slightly more than half the points.

FW point values are just as random as those from GW, maybe even worse.

>> No.53117672

>>53117556
FemSevatar and FemSigismund should be in the same picture.

>> No.53117695

>>53117581
Shield captain. I mean I kind of understand the reasoning. If they made the shield captain cost his value, the army would be even more points limited.

With that being said, shield captains are arguably the best HQs in the game for their points.

I stay the hell away from them and prefer to shoot them down like some animal who's time has come. It triggers my opponent and I get a sick satisfaction from it.

>> No.53117705 [DELETED] 

Cancerous thread here. Avoid it. Do not clic this link :^)
>>>/bant/215664
But srsly ugh

>> No.53117776

>>53117672
2nd.

>> No.53117795

>>53117556
>>53117672
>>53117776
>fem-First Captains
Could do, noted.

>> No.53118344

What's your favourite legion-specific unit? What would you change of it?
I mean maybe it's not Banestrike's fault. These guys used to have PE(Infantry).

>> No.53118403

So I have a question about 30k in general.

The era always interested me, but how do I get started collecting it? I'm guessing all the GW stuff I bought doesn't apply and I need to use FW's models? And are the rules contained in those 7 books?

>> No.53118478

>>53118403
GW started making horus heresy stuff id recommend that to start and buy FW models to fit your specific legion


>>53118344
palatine blades I wish they after the heresy got a little more obsessed with the blade maybe undergoing genetic modification or using alien weapons maybe even grafting blades into their arms

>> No.53118496

>>53118403
The GW stuff is perfectly fine, but of course if you can get the real deal from FW it's even better. If you're a poorfag like me, you can still make a perfectly fluffy army with GW bits and creativity.

>> No.53118518

>>53115835
>implying the Lion didn't
Lion did phosphex Macragge after all.

>> No.53118574

>>53118478
>undergoing genetic modification or using alien weapons
But they do get Sonic Shriekers, and using alien weapons is something the EC already did. The extinction of the Katara in HH1 was a great piece of fluff, and Abdemon end up being killed by his traitors captains in the end, using kataran weapons like plasma spears, obsidian swords and such.

>> No.53118609

>>53118574
true I guess I feel once they turned that they could go even more overboard into the perfect swordsmen thing the more lust for perfection the EC are the cooler they are imo

>> No.53118673

>>53118403
Default gateway nowadays is to get whichever of the Calth or Prospero sets fits your vision for your army. Read what is in them and pick. Those are GW plastics.
Then you switch to FW or recasters to complete your list.

>> No.53118831

The Auxilia needs some love. Or specialist weapons besides flamers. Or mortals with heavy weapons.

>> No.53118979

>>53118344
Ashen circle. The option to take Volkite serpentas for all, and the option to take full flamers or melta guns for one in five. That way if I want to load up on st5, I can have st5 deflagarate pistol shots before charging with st5 hammer of wrath attacks before hitting with st5 axe rakes. Besides, volkite is a kind of heat ray and so suits the ashen circles MO.

>> No.53119285

waifu sarrin angrons mommy such a cute realtionship

>> No.53119355

>>53119285
Did someone say cute relationships?

>> No.53119369

>>53119355
can I be invited back curze

>> No.53119484

>>53119355

>> No.53119751

>>53119355

>> No.53119776

Punchy with three new homies. Obviously some work to be done on the mortiat yet.

>> No.53119843

>>53119776
I request more images. Especially Moripics

>> No.53119866

>listen to latest Geno Five Two podcast
>they discuss the Custodes rules in-depth
>talk about Valdor giving everybody deep strike

(in grungy drunk british accent) "honestly if somebody told me they read the rule that way and were going to deep strike their Coronus grav tanks I'd just pick up my toys and leave"

are these guys retarded?

>> No.53119882

>>53119843
just have one more of the tart.

>> No.53119904

>>53119866
>are these guys making a podcast retarded?
Yes.

>> No.53119957

>>53119904
do podcasts on hobbies trigger you anon

>> No.53119974

>>53119882
Looks real good, I bet he plays Crusade of Duty. I get the same situation when I plug my mouse and there's like a meter of cable I don't need

>> No.53120064

>>53119957
>do podcasts on hobbies trigger you anon
No. Just generally I've noticed that people who think they're able to speak with authority on a topic are more likely to be a idiot on said topic.

>> No.53120210

>>53120064
The older I get the more I notice this. There are a lot of know-it-alls in the world, you know the kind, and they're objectively incorrect about most of what they talk about. The worst is most are hooked on saving face. Most of them have experienced some success, or perceived success in life and therefore think that they're now experts on things they just simply aren't. It's why you see a lot of lawyer and doctor types get killed in small aircraft accidents. Nobody can tell them what's what.

>> No.53120216

>>53117409
It is a Warhammer High ripoff. There is zero difference between teenage Femarchs, and Teenaged Primarch Daughters.

>> No.53120250

>>53120064

>> No.53120278

>> No.53120297

>>53120278

I am
I betrayed my father because I had nothing better to do
I betrayed my brothers because I'm an edgy faggot
I like being scary because I have no friends and cant make being a 15 foot tall superhuman intimidating
I am the eighth
Day fearer
self-righteous
unable to fight a fair fight
I am Conrad Kurze
I take the knot

>> No.53120305 [DELETED] 

>>53120278
Yes Konrad-senpai, please come for me~

>> No.53120328

>>53120210
>It's why you see a lot of lawyer and doctor types get killed in small aircraft accidents. Nobody can tell them what's what.
I did not know this.
>>53120064
If it helps, this is why I believe in the wikis. There's simply enough people that we can catch wrong/unlikely bullshit and edit it away.
I started editing on 1d4 when I saw wrong shit in it. Just couldn't let it stand.

>> No.53120342

>>53120297
DELET

>> No.53120369

This place is full of cancer.

>> No.53120435

>>53120369
We do the best with what we have. Others shitpost. This place is only bearable for those that can enjoy their anger.

>> No.53120449

>>53120369
You're on 4chan. Cancer is inescapable.

Anyway, first Tartatos termi mostly finished, still gotta do highlights, add a wing piece or two, and some other bits of clean-up.

>> No.53120463

>>53120328
Yeah man. Small private aircraft (not jets usually but single or multi engine props) have accident rates as high as automobiles... and the accidents have an extremely high fatality rate. Usually the kind of people who own and operate these planes are 1%ers which is predominantly made up of lawyers, doctors, bankers, and entrepreneurs, with some c-level executives.

>> No.53120467

>>53120449
I fucking love the wing on the shoulder of those Cataphractii. How did you do that?

>> No.53120500

>>53120449
my EC friend will loyalist scum friend hello!

>> No.53120555

>>53120463
Nah. True they're not as safe as the tell you to be, but that's true to everything. Luckily there are less drunk drivers up there, but it's easy for air traffic controllers to fuck up.
Too bad parachutes aren't magical bail-out devices either.

>> No.53120556

>>53120328
>If it helps, this is why I believe in the wikis.
Its also why I come here. The anonymity reduces the ego factor (yes its actually worse in other places) and if youre wrong others are more then happy to show you how and why youre an idiot.
Podcasts have issues with co-casters saying something retarded an the others just letting it slide so its not awkward. And as the conversation moves faster it never gets pulled up.

>> No.53120606

>>53120467
They're actually greenstuff, made with a greenstuff press-mould of an aquila. I have two smaller moulds of the individual wings too if I just need single pieces too

>> No.53120622

>>53120250
This should get more (You)'s due to how true it is.

>> No.53120632

>>53119355
I love genuine friendships between traitors. Are there any other notable examples?

>> No.53120773

>>53119285
Such a terrible character
>The commander of this expedition has become a literal demon chained in the bowels of the ship
>3 decks have metamorphosed into flesh
>everythingisfine.jpg

I like ADB generally, but Betrayer had so much inexplicable behavior where he clearly wrote himself into a corner and just decided to roll with it.

>> No.53120922

>>53120773
Other than a newly acquired taste for skull-based furniture daemon Angron isn't all that different.

>> No.53121147

Is this color ok for Sons of Horus or is it too teal?

Ignore the bases, they'll be all sand, I'm just using a white sand paste.

>> No.53121381

>>53121147
Looks fine to me. They're just not grimy, dirt covered SoH. If you really think it is too bright, just give it a single wash of Nuln Oil to knock it down a shade.

>> No.53121569

>>53121381

Hey, thanks for that picture, looks close enough to mine.

Will add some weathering powders to grime them up just a little, mostly on their feet and lower legs.

>> No.53121849

I finally had my game on 30k channel, I was faced off against a real nasty WE's army. Game went great, thanks for everyone who gave me some advice. Essecially the m8 that suggested I run a third Malcador with Command Tank, it they absolutely wrecked face.

>> No.53121915

>>53121849
No problems, I've never seen a triple malc in action but it seems murderous on paper. Any good moments to share?

Also post your final list pls

>> No.53122126

>>53121915
I managed to size initiative and a free turn pouring on all the firepower made the difference. I focused fire hard and managed to kill a major unit turn 1 and several other threats. The anti-flyers weren't needed but ended up kicking ass for a couple of turns. The Dorito made it's points back real fast.

Ironwing Protocol 3500 points
>HQ
Preator+Command Squad in tartaros terminator armor. Paragon blade and iron halo on the preator, power fist and a chain fist on the command squad in a Land Raider Phobos with armoured ceramite and a multi-melta.

>Elites
Contemptor-Mortis Dread with kheres.

>Troops
2 Tactical Squads, Sergeants have calabnite warblade, meltas, and artificer. Rhino's have hunter-killer missiles.

10 man Tactical Support Squad with volkite chargers. Sergeant equipped as above.

>Heavy Support
3 Predator Tanks with lascannons and machine spirits.

Dorito Dread with aiolos missile launcher

3 Malcador Assault Tanks with demolisher siege cannons, lascannon sponsons, armored ceramite and a command tank

>LoW
Typhus

>> No.53122193

>>53121147
Can somebody explain the
>highlight line around the interior shoulderpad
meme to me?

>> No.53122232

>>53121147
Those look absolutely fantastic man!

>> No.53122318

>>53122193

When all armour panels are highlighted leaving the shoulders without a highlight makes them look darker than the rest of the model.

Also, highlighting the middle of the shoulder takes way more effort and will in many cases be covered up by the transfer anyway.

>> No.53122339

>>53122126
uhhhh, you mean typhon, not typhus, right? And yeah, looks mean overall. How did the Praetor fare?

>> No.53122555

>>53116182
>>53116373
Erebus did nothing wrong in offing that whiny, cowardly, "muh literal whore waifu" bitch-ass excuse for a marine.

>> No.53122620

>>53122339
Autocorrect on my phone ignored a lot but that. Typhon yes. The Command Squad was tar pitted but did well. Probably the least effective unit I had in the game. Executioner melts marines with combi-bolters.

>> No.53122636

>>53122620
Does that mean you won?

>> No.53122860

Which legion is the most vaporwave?

>> No.53123195

>>53122636
I was told the video would be out in two weeks.

>> No.53123239

>>53122860
Alpha Legion for memes, Thousand sons for nerds, Blood Angels for aesthetic, musical people

>> No.53123273

>>53123239
Blood Angels for 40k aesthetic and unimaginative faggots

>> No.53123309

>>53122860
World Eaters because it's full of retards and criminals

>> No.53123393

>>53123239
Blood Angels have memes, it's mentioned they need them when creating new marines because their gene-seed is fucky

>> No.53123430

>>53122126
All fully painted and legion colours?

>> No.53123838

I was just thumbing through the basic army list in search of something to do with a spare tartaros and just noticed the staggering wealth of options the Forge Lord has. No idea how I missed that until now.
How would you gear a tartaros Forge Lord for TS? I kinda want a HQ to hang out with my tartaros Sekhmets and I thought the Forge Lord might make for a solid lead.

>> No.53123860 [DELETED] 

>>53123430

>> No.53123874

>>53120632
Horus and Mort were really close - to the point of Horus weeping over his body when he got injured

>> No.53124280

>>53123874
When did that happen?

>> No.53124405

>>53115666
>Ultramarines are the best legion(and chapter)
Not chapter. Horus heresy Ultra was cool, but this fucking Merry Sue are disgusting

>> No.53124455

>>53118344
Red Butchers. I like Poweraxe and like Cataphract Armor. They are both of them. Also this combination red and white is magnificent

>> No.53124517

>>53118344
I love the Gal Vorbak but the fact that they don't have Legiones Astartes makes them less appealing

>> No.53124649

>>53124405
>muh Ultrasues
Back to 1d4ddit for you.

>> No.53124704

What are all the reputable 3rd-party bits companies for legion stuff? I know about Kromlech, and Chapterhouse so far.

>> No.53124718

>>53124649
Fuck off nigger

>> No.53124763

Welp, turns out my original list was actually illegal, so I'm giving it another go.
Still dont wanna be using vehicles

RoW: Logos Lectora

LoW
Guilliman
400 pts
Suezarian Guard x5
200 pts

HQ
Centurion
Artificer Armour, Refractor Field, Legantine Axe
90 pts

Master of Signals
Artificer Armour, Refractor Field, Melta Bombs
115 pts

Master of Signals
Artificer Armour, Refractor Field, Melta Bombs
115 pts

Elite
Apothecary x3
135 pts

Fulmentarus Squad x5
x5 Autocannon, x5 Power Fist
350 pts

Fulmentarus Squad x5
x5 Autocannon, x5 Power Fist
350 pts

Troops
Breacher Squad x10
Melta Gun, Melta Bombs
240 pts

Breacher Squad x10
Graviton Gun, Melta Bombs
240 pts

Breacher Squad x10
Graviton Gun, Melta Bombs
240 pts

Fast Attack
Loctarus Storm Squad x10
Power Axe, Melta Bombs
290 pts

Heavy Support

Heavy Support Squad x5
Lascannon
235 pts

Total: 3000 pts

Guilliman goes with the Suzarians, Centurion goes with the Meltagun Squad and the MoS's go with the Terminators
The plan is that the Graviton Breachers camp objectives further back along with the implacable advance terminators, using their cannons to pepper the tougher stuff and their fists to smack attack dreadnoughts. The Meltagun Breachers will push further ahead with backup from the Loctarus coming in from reserves. Guilliman stays in the backfield with the lascannons to boost their WS, prevent infiltrators and deep strikers from getting too close and counter charging dangerous shit that gets through.

>> No.53124780

>>53124763
Oh and the Apothecarys go with the Breachers

>> No.53124880

>>53124763
The problem with not taking any tanks is that there are now no tanks for your opponent's anti-tank guns to shoot at, if that makes sense. In other words, there's going to be a lot more high-strength/low-AP fire coming at your expensive terminators than there otherwise would have been.

>> No.53124914

>>53124704
Anvil Industries do good chainaxes and shit.

>> No.53125124

>>53124455
>that World Eater
Since I am just assembling my WE I gotta ask: Is that color scheme aceptable for a whole force? I *really* dig it, but I fear it has very little of the customary blue...

>> No.53125150

>>53125124
Mid to late heresy world eaters wore he red instead of the blue to symbolise the new alignment of the legion

>> No.53125178

Question about the Osirion Dreadnought: When I upgrade one contemptor in the talon to an Osirion, do I have to upgrade the others as well? The rules say nothing to that effect, but it feels like it should...

>> No.53125186

>>53125150
Red-white it is!

>> No.53125306

>>53125150
WE never changed colours they just stopped washing the blood off

>> No.53125353

>>53125186
>>53125306
Read that Kharn novella set right after the Siege finishes, most of the WE in it have switched to red and brass, the others are still in the white and blue, it depends on how devoted to Khorne they are.
The red/white is a transitional scheme for those who went to red/brass first.
So your WE scheme depends on your own fluff for your force.

>> No.53125404

Do people tend to stick gal vorbak in a transport, presumably a dreadclaw, or just natively deep strike them in?

>> No.53125415

>>53125178
>Current year
>Rolling with more than one Contemptor

Just do what the rules say, man.
>Any Contemptor Dreadnought Talon...may be upgraded to an Osiron Dreadnought for +50 points each.

The FW TS Contemptor Talon bundle contains one Osiron and two ordinary Chucks and is in the Elites choice of their website

>> No.53125444

>>53125404
I've mostly seen people running them in that deepstrike RoW, with Drop Pods

>> No.53125488

>>53125404
It depends, i've seen a guy deepstrike five units of them at 2k with only one scoring unit, some vets. It worked for him because it's hard to kill a bunch of dreads hiding behind a building, but at higher points levels where you can't over-saturate targets you'll probably get focus-fired down ASAP custards will slaughter you like the abominations you are no matter what you do. Whenever they're being used as an entourage, its been in a kharybdis with either lorgar or a chaplain/diabolist.

>> No.53126052

>>53125306
The author who wrote that tidbit clearly didn't realize that blood dries brown.

>> No.53126083

>>53126052
>not killing something long enough for your blood-paint dry

>> No.53126106

>>53125488
The odd thing is that without equipment Gal Vorbak are almost exactly equal to Custodes, Gal Vorbak get Rending and 5++ and a couple advantages from being Daemons, Custodes get 3" Coherency and improved Stubborn. I would suspect that had the WB actually given GV Termie armour and decent weapons they'd be a very good match.

Also inserting a slight lament that everyone taking SoS to deal with the 1kSons player has basically stopped my idea of an Ashen Circle/Daemon support WB fast list from being a thing, since I can't justify taking psykers or daemons and AS suck on their own a fair bit. Guess I'll stick to the Genetors until they stop freaking out about psykers so much.

>> No.53126145

>>53126106
By the time everyone actually understood what was happening to the Gal Vorbak it was too late to remove/change their armour. There is a section in The First Heretic where Argel Tal monologues about his armour being his skin now or something. Still though, Gal Vorbak terminators would be amazing.

>> No.53126157

>>53126106
Custodes player here. I will randomly take an Oblivion Knight-Centura in my Custodes just because it looks good; the majority of us prefer to run purely Custodes or randomly take SoS for fun and rarely take them for anything other than just cheap bodies to hold objectives or annoy opponents.

Make your list how you want, worrying about SoS is silly.

>> No.53126163

>>53126106
>everyone taking SoS to deal with the 1kSons player
How's that working out for them?

>> No.53126164

>>53126145
Did the chapters that were made into the Gal Vorbak not have any Terminators or Assault Marines, then? It would seem like a there'd be a few around. If those are just possessed Tacticals then golden boys ain't got shit

>> No.53126201

>>53126164
Do the GB rules represent the first group who got powerful big dick daemons or the later generations who got little bitch daemons?

>> No.53126217

>>53126164
>>53126145
>>53126106
We only have rules and models for the possessed (mostly tactical) marines of the Serrated Sun and the ones turned to Gal Vorbak by Argel Tal under Lorgar's command who were produced like burgers just to have lots of annoying shit thrown to the Ultramarines in the shadow crusade. We could see more elite possessed troops in the future rather than standard marines and some commanders like Argel Tal or Xaphen which we don't even have rules for

>> No.53126261

>>53126157
No, the Custodes dude here is chill and keeps his lists to nice fluffy extents when facing Legions, he kinds of likes fighting my Mechanicum because he gets to cut loose against the Reductor. He started the last game by reciting that Superman World of Cardboard speech and putting down Tankibune at the end of it, was kinda fun. He bogged down in Thralls after a lucky barrage downed three Hetaeron out of five. Sure as hell not fighting him man to man.
Anyway, they ally in two or three squads of SoS and a Centura and use them to screen.

>>53126163

Haven't seen many of the games yet, but one of the two I watched had the 1kSobs guy levitate a squad of Sekhmets w/Praetor straight past the Sisters and dropped Psychic Maelstrom onto the enemy Gorgonstar next turn. In the other they just got shot to bits because Shredding vets still work wellish even with Machine Killers.
>>53126217
Well, that answers that question. Suck it, Emprah Spartan ripoffs.

>> No.53126286

>>53126261
Show us your models mechanic-wordbro

>> No.53126314

>>53126286
On lunch break at the moment so they're a way away, but I have a pic of a Knight I'm working on magnetising. House Malinax transfers on the way finally.

>> No.53126380

>>53126314
Full traitor? I like you anon

>> No.53126558

>>53126106
Ashen circle are good in the right role. A ton of str5 attacks with st5 hammer of wrath ain't bad. They just have to go after plain stuff to work well.

>> No.53126575

Would it anger you if this was used as cataphractii, and between games changed to tartaros just to try things out

>> No.53126601

>>53126575
Nah. I'm not bothered by that if it's a "for fun" or "what if" match because you're trying stuff out. If it's competitive play then I'd be a little miffed. I'd expect you to have your shit sorted.

>> No.53126704

>>53126575
Why does that cataphracti have tartaros shoulders?

>> No.53126744

>>53126575
>>53126601

Depends on the models and bits you're planning on buying, but if you magnetise the arms you could do a pretty convincing imitation of either. Even more so if you put a magnet in at the waist as well, but by that point you might as well have just built both.

>> No.53127176

>>53118344
These sweet psychic bastards.

I would bump their cost up to 280-295pts, make them 45 per additional dude and allow them to take heavy weapons per 5.

>> No.53127253

>>53126704
I don't like generic Cataphractii shoulders that much/I can prepare my anus for 8th edition and FW fucking over the benefits of terminator armour types.

>> No.53127288

>tfw the 1kysons players all come spamming Guard of the Crimson King vets/snipers/sekhmets can't kill jackshit in my armored breakthrough list

It's a good feel, though seriously wtf is this reroll 1's on an invuln of 3++? At least Vindicators ID the fuckers

>> No.53127321

Newfag question
I'm starting to put together ideas for conversions from plastic shit. I know of about Mk 7 being a big nono, but are there any symbols or items that are absolutely not acceptable, like purity seals or the aquilla or whatever?

>> No.53127375

>>53127321
Crux terminatus

>> No.53127376

>>53127321
Not really. Crux Terminatus is a no-no, but all the other stuff exists, though it's a lot rarer- equilas and seals were really only 'common' on EC and IF

>> No.53127433

Well then.

>> No.53127441

>>53127321
Aquilas on the chest unless it's emperors children is also a nono

>> No.53127458

>>53127441
Or a generic dreadnought.

>> No.53127462

>>53127433
Better than a huge matrix showing s vs t for every single combo

>> No.53127502

>>53127288
Sekhmet can pick Molten Beam and Psychic Maelstrom and all equip combi meltas for cheap breh

>> No.53127525

>>53127441
>this model cannot be used in 30k

>> No.53127579

>>53127525
Into the trash it goes.

>> No.53127673

>>53126380
Of course full Traitor. Beep Boop fuck the Loyalists, right? Also I figure Admech loses every battle anyway, so nothing to lose by joining the actually sane side.
>>53126558

True, I just see a lot of Legion-specific stuff in my meta with minimal Vets or Termie tax, so I tend to prefer heavier ordnance over risky melee fights. When over half the enemy is Terminators, Medusae and Levy blobs start looking damn shiny.
>>53127433
That seems stupid, given there's a lot more high T stuff around and they've tried to emphasise single shot AT with multiple wounds.
The old chart wasn't exactly hard to work out, I'm continuing my opinion that they've gone a little too far in pursuit of simplicity. RIP templates for one thing, this just seems a little superfluous.

>> No.53127720

>>53127525
That's not an Imperial Aquilla it's just an eagle. It doesn't have 2 heads, you nonce.

>> No.53127759

>>53127525
>each post must list every possible exception otherwise you are a wrong dummy
>t. reddit

Also wrong aquila, chump. EC's used the Palatine Aquila which was the Emperor's symbol. Single headed aquila as fine and Garro used that since before the heresy.

>> No.53127783

>>53127502
Well, these guys didn't. I got lucky cause the second fag brought laser Rapiers which I only barely managed to kill before he demolished my leave Sicarian.

Looking at it now though, I wormer why they didn't grab combi-weapons. I guess it helps my group runs that sekhmets have to roll, not pick

>> No.53127826

Terminator Bodyguard. Axes or thunder hammers? I like both visually, but I can't decide if I should go with the cheaper option or the stronger option.

>> No.53127954

What's the current fluff on when Land Raiders became Marines only? In Index Astartes it says that Emperor made the decree as Horus' forces were overrunning Terra, meaning vast majority of the Heresy Land Raiders should have been available to Army with no restrictions.

>> No.53127965

>>53127783
>houserule to nerf unit, especially against tanks
>act smug when unit is shit against tanks
Okay.

>> No.53127983

>>53127826
Depends on the legion and unit.

>> No.53127990

>>53127954
>Index Astartes
Sorry anon, that got torn up and set on fire because it interfered with Laurie Golding's vision for the lore.

>> No.53128035

>>53127990
I know THAT'S NOT FUCKING CANON.gif, but I'm just interested in knowing what the replacement fluff is, if any. What justification is there for denying Army the widespread use of Land Raiders?

>> No.53128055

>>53127983
>legion

Worst.

>unit

Terminator Bodyguard.

>> No.53128091

>>53128055
>Worst
word bearers, space wolves, night lords? Lots of contenders for that title.

>> No.53128095

>>53128055
>Worst
Don't the Wolves like axes?

>> No.53128097

>>53128055
Why not take varagyr instead? They can take double axes.

>> No.53128120

>>53128091
>WB
>NL
>worst

There is only one that's THE worst.

>>53128095
Yes, but hammers look nice too.

>> No.53128122

>>53127965
>>>>>houserule
Okay friendo, sure. It definitely isn't just shit writing leading people to think they get to choose powers rather than choose the tables of powers.

But that fights been had enough, so no need to continue it here

>> No.53128158

>>53128097
They're expensive for what amounts to S5 Stubborn & Fear Terminator Bodyguard, can't be taken as Command Squad for a praetor, and minimum squad size is 5, so they won't fit into a land raider with a praetor.

>> No.53128160

>>53128035
Based on the fact militia can buy Land Raiders in very specific circumstances, I would not be surprised if the old fluff actually still applies.

>> No.53128167

>>53128122
"Choose" is crystal clear. The only people who think you can't choose are turbofags in denial who willfully disregard RAW because they don't like it and then act superior to those who actually follow the rules of the game.

>> No.53128183

>>53128035
I'm running from memory, but iirc there was some bit of fluff that the primary forge world for Land Raiders for the Imperium (and one of the only) was either seriously damaged or destroyed during the Heresy, so Big E decreed that all remaining LRs would be for Astartes use only to make better use of the limited quantities left.

>> No.53128189

>>53127826
Thunderhammers are expensive for what they do, but what they do can sometimes mean the difference between losing an assault slightly and winning one bigly. I keep my th on my praetor and the bodyguard have fists and chain fists. I only take axes if the unit can't otherwise take fists or chainfists.

>> No.53128201

>>53128122
Unless you're not a native English speaker, there is no way you could interpret "may choose" not to mean they...can choose. If you want to houserule to nerf armies you're butthurt about, fine, but don't pretend your houserule is the correct RAI or some bullshit.

>> No.53128219

>>53128160
Index Astartes says the LR was popular and used by almost every human force. A bunch of power armoured humans getting to field a few proteus variants doesn't exactly convey that sentiment. Especially when the creme of the crop SA can't take them.

>> No.53128269

>>53128183
Yes, that's mentioned in IA, happening at the onset of the Heresy, but it also says that the decree that only Marines can use LRs came as Horus' forces were conquering Terra, which were towards the very end of the Heresy.

>> No.53128331

>>53128122
literally ever other unit in inferno says roll powers and it's all worded exactly the same, magnus and the space wolves included. Sekhmet are the only ones which say choose powers. You are house ruling, Sekhmet can choose their powers from Pyromancy and Telekinesis.

>> No.53128346

Worked on an objective marker. Some cool dudes suggested I use legions as marker numbers, so here's boys of the first meeting a grim end hauling some ammo.

>> No.53128353

>>53128183
Yes, Anvilus IX. I think the old fluff suggested it fell to the Dark Mechanicus early.

On another note - White Scars breachers, should I give them boarding shields, breacher shields (harder to get by themselves), or round shields? Round ones are more Mongolian but I'm not sure how far I want to carry that theme.

The Path of Heaven mentions breacher squads and, on a separate occasion, storm shields.

>> No.53128366

>>53128346
Hate to be that guy, but what legion are you going to use for objective marker #2?

>> No.53128393

>>53128366
black shields :^)
No but seriously I'll just make a banner or a mystery box.

>> No.53128409

>>53128353
>round shields
Please don't. The White Scars have so far avoided taking their mongol theme to Space Wolf "wooden viking shield" levels of retardation.

>> No.53128450

>>53128353
Don't know how historically accurate it is, but other games (both tabletop and vidya) often have mongol infantry with these big rectangular shields. So, I'd just go with normal breacher shields, as they're that shape.

>> No.53128466

Ooh, just found this "ML Shields" FB store.

>> No.53128471

>>53128409
>so far

Sorry to be the Word Bearer of bad news...

>> No.53128528

>>53128409
>>53128450
Thanks, I like the rectangular shape anyway. I'd get the FW kit but goddamn those prices, and I'm not even sure I'll use these breachers often. More of a "I liked them in the books" thing, and I'm going to have those 10 BoP dudes left over.

>> No.53128568

>>53128471
>40k
Also those shields are used for decorating bikes not actual combat. We're nowhere near yiff tier.

>> No.53128615

>>53128528
Someone linked a 3D printing store months back (on Shapeways maybe?), dude who ran it had made designs for several Legion specific breacher shields cheaper than FW.

I'd search for a link, but I lost it when my PC crashed, and I'm in a rush atm

>> No.53128757

Any idea how I could go about making an Admech-style Mr House? While breaking up my old and useless laptop I found some circuitboards that would look pretty good repainted as screens and such, so I thought that I would do that and build in Xander's latest clone into the bridge of the Filiketos. Have them around the casket and such.

>> No.53128838

>>53128615
Pop Goes The Monkey. Although just looking now they don't have breacher shields specifically for the "Scared Legion".

>> No.53128929

>>53123393
Battle memes at the ready!

>> No.53128966

>>53128838
>Scared Legion
I find it weird how he dances around certain trademarked names but then will just have
>Tzeentch Shoulderpad

>> No.53128990

>>53128615
>>53128838
He makes cool items, but the 3d printing is absolute shit.

>> No.53129070

>>53128990
You get what you pay for. And from what I've seen, it's not bad enough that you can't take care of it with a bit of handiwork

>> No.53129083

>>53129070
>You get what you pay for.

You pay a fortune for those things, you are not getting something amazing in return

>> No.53129094

>>53128990
Those would look perfectly fine with some delicate sanding.

>> No.53129105

>>53121147
They look great! What's your recipe?

>> No.53129204

>>53128471
>>53128568
Those are buckler shields, which were common in Europe and Asia for a time though mostly for infantry with one-handed swords, I think. They were obviously not for missile fire but they were good for parrying and punching (i.e. dueling). A google search gives vague references to Mongols using them, but without details. I'm not sure how cavalry would make use of them.

>> No.53129326

i'm converting a mk3 techmarine into a legion praevian, any suggestions for a bit to represent the augmented targeter (instead of where the claw is)

>> No.53129351

>>53126575
I'd be angered if you play TS anyway.
>>53127176
WHY DOES HE WEAR THE MASK?

>> No.53129395

>>53129351
I have 2x10 Sekhmets all with combis in my GOTKC 2k points with Magnus. Doh ho ho ho.

>> No.53129440

>>53129083
$24 for a set of 10 shields is a little over half of what it costs for 5 Breacher marines from FW ($45 at current conversion rates), and that's not even factoring in international shipping. So I'd consider the fact that I can get a box of plastic MkIIIs ($50 MSRP, $35-40 online) and 10 breacher shields for notably less than FW (again, before shipping costs) well worth the 5 minutes it'll take me to clean up a shield.

And that's if I ever wanted Breachers. Since they're basically garbage until they get some sort of buff, it'd be purely for aesthetics.

>> No.53129481

>>53129326
Get a telescope from the Dwarf Cannon or Empire Celestial Hurricanum kit and make him into something similar to Solar Auxilia Strategos.

>> No.53129482

>>53129326
Do you have antennae/telescope bits?
Also, try to add lots of bits to the ranged weapon: that's the actual main part of the Cortex designator.

>> No.53129533

>>53128409
>all round shields are made of wood
Are you feeling ok anon?

>> No.53129561

>>53128409
Hey, that's not just any wood, that's fenrisian wolfwood, which is harder than even ceramite.

>> No.53129612

>>53129561
>Wolfwood
You don't fool me. It's called Ironbark, but I think the shield generator inside does most of the work.

>> No.53129637

>>53129612
Then why not just carry a shield generator?

>> No.53129640

Anons, does anyone know how much time does it take to get FW stuff to France or Spain?

>> No.53129660

>>53129481
Oh that looks so fucking nice.

>> No.53129775

>>53129637
A point shield generator must be mounted somewhere. It's a directional non-newtonian field that, like its name suggests, hardens on impact, but hysteresis limits it's power to a certain degree.
You'd need a different kind of generator if you wanted 360° 24/7 bodily protection, and that kind of power costs. Iron Halos and refractor fields aren't that common, without those you need the bulk of terminator armour and dedicated generators to fuel those power-hungry systems.
Mount the shield generator on whatever bit of hardened material you can find. I mean, the big boarding shield you're thinking of? That's ablative material, not meant to last the whole campaign without repair.

Fluff it

>> No.53129823

>>53129775
>spess wulf
>Fluff it

oh anon

>> No.53129845

>>53129612
>ironbark
It works on so many levels.

>> No.53129859

I wish the EC had a model who looked like this its sooo sexy

>> No.53129870

>>53129481
That would have been so fucking perfect, but it's too expensive.

>>53129482
Something like this maybe, for the bolter part?

>> No.53129898

>>53129105

Incubi Darkness -> Kabalite Green -> 50/50 mix of Kabalite & Sybarite Green -> Highlight Sybarite Green -> Finer highlight of Gauss Blaster Green

Paint thinned down Incubi Darkness into recesses for shading.

>> No.53129936

>>53129870
Moar antennae, more cables, more bitz!

>> No.53129968

>>53129870
>it's too expensive

How? The telescopes are like a few bucks. And I didn't even remember the new steampunk dwarfs, which most likely also have some sort of telescopes.

>> No.53130056

>>53129870
>>53129936
omnispex

>> No.53130167

>see the gross oversimplification of the 8th ed. rules
>the autist in me wakes up to make proper rules
>mfw

>> No.53130528

>>53129898
Thanks m8, I'll save it simply because it's simple and cool.

>> No.53130537

>>53130167
you realise that the rules just announced are very, very nearly identical in nearly ALL contexts that you would've played previously?
Oh wait, you don't, because you work at mcdonalds and have the math education of a french fire

>> No.53130630

>>53130537
>French fire
So you're saying that countries have different kinds of fire? Enlighten me

>> No.53130745

New bread
>>53130736
>>53130736
>>53130736

>> No.53130746

>>53130537
>you realise that the rules just announced are very, very nearly identical in nearly ALL contexts that you would've played previously?
They tend to what AoS looks like.
>Oh wait, you don't, because you work at mcdonalds
citation needed
>have the math education of a french fire
Prove it, you homoturd.

>> No.53130904

>>53115643
I'm glad another Russian speaker got confounded trying to read this.

>> No.53131010

>>53130904
I actually just know how to read greek letters because I'm interested in etymology, but I do get what you're saying.
Didn't know we had a russian speaker among us.

>> No.53131024

>>53115643
>>Vetegap Selgept Julius Tgajlp
>V?T?GLP ??LGG?PT JVLIV? TGLJLP
Also the text is cringey as shit.

>> No.53131097

>>53131024
Kek I know right? He wasn't even using Sigmas!

>> No.53131804

>>53129859
They already do

>>
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