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[ERROR] No.52102094 [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

D&D 5th Edition General Discussion
Remote Location Edition

>New Unearthed Arcana: Traps Revisited

>Give feedback on the previous Unearthed Arcana:

>New Plane Shift: Kaladesh

>Official /5eg/ Mega Trove v4b:

>Pastebin with resources and so on:


What kinds of exotic and remote placesdo you like to see in your games?

>> No.52102140

I like going to places themed off of ancient southern and central american civilizations. It's fun to explore around them and get in fights with blood-thirsty notMayans.

>> No.52102158

The most exotic of all in a dungeons and dragons game: complete rustic normalcy.

>> No.52102181

>he DOESN'T ask his players to give an actual home / nice farm / family for their background
I mean, do you have your players be literal murderhobos with no place to call home, not even a back alley?

>> No.52102227

Funny enough, a game I'm DMing soon is going to be just that.

However, for the other games I play in, there's little of that.

>> No.52102229

I don't know why murderhobos get so much hate. That's the life right there.

>> No.52102247

Because realistically, murderhobos are the first thing the level 10 Captain of the Guard is going to crack down on and might even call in the help of the level 12 visiting Knight Commander. Also because from a semi-historical angle, anyone who's a murderhobo is probably not on record, which means they don't pay taxes, which means the government hates their continued existence as murderhobos.

>> No.52102272 [DELETED] 

Post your best /5eg/ homebrews, I'm bored of the pastebin PDFs
They don't have to be perfectly balanced, my group is pretty dumb in regards to minmaxing and DVD logic.

>> No.52102304

Realistically speaking, they are probably going to be granted some sort of title to placate them.

>> No.52102305

Post your best /5eg/ homebrews, I'm bored of the pastebin PDFs
They don't have to be perfectly balanced, my group is pretty dumb in regards to minmaxing and D&D logic.

>> No.52102321

>guard captain
>level 10
Pffff no.
Besides you can be a murderhobo without upsetting the law. Just kill monsters and shit.

>> No.52102335

I gotta make a support character for an upcoming game, and since half of the party is made up of nobles, I have decided for kicks that I should play a caster stylized as a personal assistant.

My question comes down to this: What is the best way to make a magical party secretary?

>> No.52102345

>some sort of title to placate them
1. They wouldn't be murderhobos
2. I generally don't let the PCs be the strongest people in town until late game. There's going to be CR13+ people in the Imperial Court.

They're hobos though. What were they doing BEFORE they were killing monsters?

>> No.52102349

>only killing monsters and not upsetting laws

Those are adventurers, anon; murderhobos break both of those rules.

>> No.52102357

A Conjuration Wizard that fabricates all the little doodads that the nobles need at any given moment.
Downside: It's not support as in Cleric/Bard.

>> No.52102377

Then what I have been describing as murderhoboing is very wrong.

>> No.52102380

Nothing even 0.00000000000000001% anomalous about a level 10 guard captain, D&D hasn't had a pretense of low powered normies for, what, 3 whole editions over nearly 2 decades?

>> No.52102397

you can't murderhobo without, well, murdering.

>> No.52102403

Murderhobos are the peopple who decide to solve the fact that they don't have enough money for the Sword of Amazing by killing the weaponsmith.

>> No.52102420

>They wouldn't be murderhobos

Murderhobos are generally a decision the DM makes rather than the players.

>There's going to be CR13+ people in the Imperial Court.

Well an archmage with 9th level spells is CR12, so what the fuck is a CR 13 person gonna be?

Nah, murderhobo = adventurer. They:
1. Kill = murder
2. Wander around with the only possessions being that which they carry = hobo

>> No.52102440

"Murderhobo" is just a satirical term cooked up to refer to player characters in general (they are hobos who go around murdering), not a specific kind (other than that 99% of PCs are homelses people who wander around killing).

>> No.52102443

Anon, all murders are killings, but not all killings are murders. If what you said were the case, King McNoble would be pressing charges against you for killing that Beholder trying to decimate the land.

>> No.52102448

>Kill = murder

>> No.52102460

>Well an archmage with 9th level spells is CR12, so what the fuck is a CR 13 person gonna be?
An archmage with 9th level spells covered in the Imperial treasures, maybe? A level 20 royal champion (fighter) covered in stupid strong equipment and magic items?

>Murderhobos are generally a decision the DM makes rather than the players.
No, DMs can make a campaign conducive to murderhobo'ing but actually playing as one is the choice of a player.

>> No.52102468

>Level 10 guards

Jesus Christ, what is this, a town bordering a portal to Hell where all the villagers have to be 5th level fighters just to fend off the daily demon incursions?

>> No.52102469

My DM allow use to multiclass with UA.

Should I go nuclear druid? Is it actually fun? Will the novelty wear off?

>> No.52102488

if you don't like "murderhobo," would you prefer "person that is between housings who terminates life?"

>> No.52102495


>> No.52102500

>level 10 guards
Captain of the Guard, I don't think this is really that out there for a major city.

>> No.52102501

murder and killing are not the same terms. There's a reason they're called murderhobos and not killhobos.

>> No.52102505

Level 10 Captain OF THE Guard.

Also a level 9 veteran is CR 3, so a military force of CR 3 veterans doesn't strike me as abnormal a lot.

>> No.52102519

Murderhobos are people who kill people for apparently no reason beyond their personal gain, or just for enjoyment, people being defined as non-hostile intelligent entities, so the guy who attacks the merchant after you complete the quest to loot his shit.

>> No.52102521

Nuclear Druid is by far the most broken thing in the entire game pre level 17~ when it comes to the whole wargame murdercore aspect of the game. Your DM 200% doesn't even know Nuclear Druid exists, and will not initially understand why you're doing [Top Tier Damage for your level] without rolling to hit.

>> No.52102522

I believe the politically correct term these days is "killwanderer" or "people of dungeons" ("dungeon people" is considered offensive nowadays)

>> No.52102548

>There's a reason they're called murderhobos and not killhobos.

Solely because it sounds funnier. Murderhobo is just an irreverent description of the adventurer lifestyle (wander around homelessly and solve the majority of problems with violence), the dissection of the term to try to use it to refer to BAD adventurers came much later. It even refers to PCs in video games that have no moral choices or whatever.

If there is a distinction between murderhobo and non murderhobo PCs, its not on the basis of how "nice" or "mean" they are, but whether they are fundamentally homeless people being dragged by the plot between one violent encounter and another, ie the vast, vast majority of adventure paths and "save the world from the BBEG" plots.

>> No.52102558

Level 10 is the level you fight the final boss of SKT at. I don't see anyone hiring random guard captains to fight the ancient blue dragon.

>> No.52102560

and man, all the people who aren't killwanderers just don't get why they can't say murderh*b*. Like, I don't care if your granpappy says it, it just not okay in these modern times.

>> No.52102566

>or "people of dungeons" ("dungeon people" is considered offensive nowadays)

>> No.52102576

The captain of the guard is the cream of the crop. I've always found it fucking stupid that your average adventurer team is worth, after maybe five sessions, easily the entire guard of a major city.

>> No.52102577


>> No.52102613

>why don't CR 9 giants just hire CR 3 humans to take down CR 17 dragons?

Woa... really... mkes u tink...????

>> No.52102615

IIRC, Level 5 Hexblade nova will beat it.

>> No.52102630

Hexblades have to worry about actually hitting.

>> No.52102666


There are many, many adventurers where "murderhobo" would be an improper description.

One of my early 3.5 characters killed a hobo for the pure purpose of becoming an assassin. That character was a murderhobo murdering hobos.

>> No.52102668

But that is exactly what happens. Maybe use your brain next time.

>> No.52102679

PCs are superhuman mang. They're like Beowulf or some shit, beyond normal human capabilities.

>> No.52102682

goddamn hobo-murdering murderhobos.

>> No.52102694

Cleric 1/Druid 4 can do two 3rd level magic missiles (5d4+5)x2, and add 2d10 to each missile.
This adds up to (10d10+5d4+5)x2 which equates to 72.5 average damage per spell, 145 total.

Hexblade 5 can do [greatsword+str+magic weapon invocation + 3rd level spell slot + prof from curse] (2d6+6 + 6d8 + 3)x2 which equates to 43 average damage per attack, 86 total. And you have to roll to hit.

>> No.52102726

Yeah, but things get messy when you start playing around with that kind of stuff. You only need a handful of decently levelled guards to pretty much outmode adventurers. After all, why hire a bunch of seedy strangers when you can just call on your trusty guardsmen instead?

>> No.52102737

So I was thinking about how different draconians could be used as, preferably, high tier antagonists -- ignoring the obvious fact that many of them are not so high tier afterall, but I enjoy the fact that they are tough, end game foes in Dungeon Crawl.

Auraks are particularly interesting to me because they remind me of warlocks. They even cast 2 spells of levels 1-4, have unlimited energy blasts, and even have a form of mental control that requires unbroken concentration!

On the other hand, I can't think of any ability remotely like their whole "go into a nonmagical frenzy upon 0hp." OF course, this is for a kind of antagonist, not a PC, so I can be fast and loose with abilities.

>> No.52102769

>things get messy
Not really, all you have to do is for there to be a shortage of guards. It's not like a shitty village is going to send 5 of its 20 guards off to raid the gnoll cave when they might not come back alive.

>> No.52102817

Adventurer things are too dangerous, too much guesswork, too much time or the guards don't rightly care about attacking an Orc village to save one farmer.

>> No.52102822


Its usually better to imagine that the end comes for psychotic murderhobos when another set of adventurers is hired to match up to them

The logical consequence of a group of high powered serial killers is that they will eventually be treated like the Liches Dragons Demons and Beholders out there as a great evil that must be stopped

>> No.52102838

I've actually had one group of PCs meet their end via a coalition of wraiths and lichs, because their leader (another lich) reasoned that getting rid of the great evil that's been murderhoboing around the country would be a good way to earn the trust of the foolish fleshbags

>> No.52102841


>Yeah, but things get messy when you start playing around with that kind of stuff.

I can't imagine how.

>After all, why hire a bunch of seedy strangers when you can just call on your trusty guardsmen instead?

After all, why send your own dudes when you can """""""""""hire""""""""""" people literally for free who have fantastic powers and that are equipped with amazing mystical relics, and only have to be paid once they return, if ever?

And a payment that will make adventurers FURIOUSLY JACK OFF and be super grateful is simply letting the captain of the guard train them for a month or so (DMG suggestion).

>> No.52102861

The whole no down payment thing is really an edge adventurers have

>> No.52102937

That just makes adventurers into cheap sellswords, getting scraps that guards don't have time for. I can appreciate if you're going for a tone or something, but it does inevitably downgrade adventurers from superhuman heroes to basically just mercenaries.

>Not paying adventurers

That's how you get your town burned down by the CN sorcerer. Better hope all those overlevelled guards are good firefighters too.

>> No.52103003

Reposting my question from the last thread, since noone answered that one.

Need someone with Adventurers League experience.I'm trying to get the League going in my town in the literal middle of nowhere. Got a bunch of players (both frequents in my home campaign and newcomers) ready for a test run. Guys and gals are pretty excited about the whole thing and especially the factions. But here's the problem.
One player wants to pose as a Harper while being Zhentarim. One doesn't want to reveal his faction to other players at all. Is this kind of thing actually permitted in the League play? Or should they all be explicit about their allegiances?

>> No.52103026

>That's how you get your town burned down by the CN sorcerer.

what? the point is that you only have to pay them if you succeed, and you lose nothing if they lose.

If you send your private retinue, on the other hand, you risk losing your best dudes.

>but it does inevitably downgrade adventurers from superhuman heroes to basically just mercenaries.

I care nothing about the LEL SUPERHUMAN ADVENTURER 200 FOOT FALL xD HP = MEAT POINTS maymay, its a fucking retarded meme. That level of stupidity needs to die.

>> No.52103037

But you can survive 200 foot falls. And that's because your character is superhuman. It's in the mechanics of the game. Do you consider the rules of the game a meme?

>> No.52103056

>Power levels described in the PHB and DMG

>> No.52103059

>But you can survive 200 foot falls.

Solely because of an editing mistake decades ago.

>> No.52103068

>ctrl+F "superhuman"
>no results

>> No.52103093

Wow that's a really stupid thing to say.
You do know that a lot of the rules of the game have actually changed over the last couple of decades right?
Like, that's why the game discussed in this thread is the "fifth edition"?
There's no reason to suspect the falling rules would have never changed.

>> No.52103113

>Wow that's a really stupid thing to say.

Its a correct one. I care nothing for your opinion.

>You do know that a lot of the rules of the game have actually changed over the last couple of decades right?

Sure, yet the amount of falling damage you take is owed solely to some sub-moron editor. Because of that one sub-moron editor, people furiously masturbate about how D&D is "supposed" to be a superpower RPG and not Swords & Sorcery.

And yet, because of that sole piece of evidence (falling damage), anons take that one bit of proof and extrapolate it to nonsense like "human armies could NEVER do what our guys do... because they can't fall 200' comfortably!"

>> No.52103127

Trying too hard.

>> No.52103157

ah yes, if someone has a differing opinion, it must be trolling

>> No.52103166

Dank quibbling, my friend. The point is that PCs represent a height of strength beyond the average human. They're supposed to be great heroes. At least that's what the book implies.

But everyone can play how they want to. If you prefer less fantastic PCs, that's your prerogative.

>> No.52103169

I'd probably make the guard commander of a town or city a Veteran, so CR3

>> No.52103184

>The point is that PCs represent a height of strength beyond the average human.

Nobody in this thread disputed that, however briefly.

Nothing about towns that have veteran guards and warlords (or whatever) for guard captains interferes with that.

>> No.52103186

Anyine have a pdf of Nord Games critical hit / fail decks for 5e yet?

>> No.52103211

If you were serious it would be much more pathetic. I have more faith in you than that anon.

>> No.52103225

oops someone with more knowledge about the history of the game disagreed with me, better become furious

>> No.52103236

Both of you are pathetic, go find a chatroom and take your bitchfit there.

>> No.52103258

See, the problem is that once you start doling out levels it does become disputed. PCs aren't really special when every town has a handful of guards that are as strong as them. They're just mercenaries at that point.

And again, it's fine if you want your PCs to be nothing special. That can be interesting if done well. It's just not what the default assumption is in the books.

>> No.52103265

Well I was gonna stop but since you're such a cutie...
You have low standards for what counts as furious.

>> No.52103279

So I'm going to be playing Wizard in my group's next campaign, after almost a year and a half of playing purely martial characters (a rogue and a fighter, to be specific). With that in mind, what are some of people's favorite wizard spells, from a fluff and mechanical standpoint?

>> No.52103289

Find Familiar is always great.

>> No.52103297

Feather fall is always amazing. You can escape so many situations simply by being able to jump from somewhere high (at least at a level where everyone doesn't have flight yet).

>> No.52103307


The first thing I'd recommend you do is pick an interesting school of magic - Illusion (OP, but creative), Transmutation (makes you tough, gets lots of the most entertaining spells), Necromancer, etc. Try to avoid Divination and Evocation as they're not that interesting IMO.

In my opinion, you'll usually have a more interesting time focusing on debuffs/buffs than straight up damage as a wizard. Take Fireball and magic missile, they're both great. But don't be afraid to use stuff like Enlarge/Reduce, getting creative with Invisibility, and so on. Using spells out of combat can be much more interesting than their obvious combat uses, such as using Hold Person to prevent a guard from shouting for help.

A good primer on spells can be found here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ZHzEjiHvtDItZE2ixfoYwqi7brTO-ag8uBJndE5saro/preview

>> No.52103308

>See, the problem is that once you start doling out levels it does become disputed.

Out of curiosity, why did you respond to a post without comprehending it?

The post pointed out nobody is even remotely arguing that PCs should only be of average strength.

Meanwhile, you are arguing that the very presence of anyone but the PCs equaling their strength, let alone exceeding that (despite that being perfectly normal in D&D history) is some sort of odd deviation from the rules. Fuck that.

>It's just not what the default assumption is in the books.

It is in D&D. The DMG even directly states that the 50 or so soldiers the PCs hire to protect their strongholds will be an undefined mix of guards (2 HD) and veterans (9 HD).

Try again.

>> No.52103318

Alright, thanks. I was initially leaning towards Evocation since that seemed the most useful (my group does lean pretty heavily on the "kick open door, stab orc in the face" approach), but I'll definitely give the other schools a second look.

>> No.52103337

If you just wana blow stuff up, you're probably better off going with sorcerer for meta-magic options like twinned and quickened spells. Evocation as a school is one of the worst wizard schools, and the only ability that really ends up being useful is the one that lets you avoid hitting allies. Wizards are for battlefield control, Sorcerers are for blasting.

>> No.52103338

How is having an army of 9 HD goons working for you evidence that PCs should be nothing special?

>> No.52103348


Well Evocation is definitely useful, but everyone's first impulse with Wizard is just to go pew pew everything. That's like, the least interesting way to do it. You can make things big, or small, bend light around creatures, mind control people and then make them forget about it. While you should always have fireball and magic missile readied because sometimes the world just needs explosions... you'll probably find it a much more appealing experience coming from a martial if you focus on all the utility and control spells wizards get. Because those are the things that MOST distinguish them from martials. Focusing primarily on blasting will just make you feel like a squishy, more versatile ranged battlemaster.

>> No.52103367

That if 9HD guys are just normal skilled hirelings and not LEGENDARY EBIN EARTSHATTERING HEROES THAT MAKE GODS SHIT THEMSELVES, then towns having them as protectors isn't a big deal.

>> No.52103377

We're just willfully misinterpreting each other now, I think. I can't make my point clearer on my part and I disagree with your point as you've articulated it. On my part, I'll play as I see fit and hope you'll do the same.

>> No.52103397

What page of the DMG is that?

>> No.52103406


copypasta'ing from pdfs yields "interesting" results

::.:astles and keeps employ soldiers (use the veteran
and guard statistics in the Monster Manual) to defend
- em. Roadside inns, outposts and forts, palaces, and
·emples rely on less-experienced defenders (use the
;;uard statistics in the Monster Manual). These armed
arriors make up the bulk of a property's skilled

For some reason, palaces have shittier protectors than keeps? Okay.


>> No.52103423

>For some reason, palaces have shittier protectors than keeps? Okay.
More or less makes sense. A palace is a place of luxury and casual rule, while a castle is fortified against attack above all else. A keep is in places where conflict can easily arise on borders and such.

>> No.52103437

>The point is that you only have to pay them if you succeed, and you lose nothing if they lose.

What kind of low rent adventures are you doing that don't have some payment up front? Lawlful Good Crusaders might run after the Orcs up in them hills sight unseen, but anybody with a brain is going to see that the town has enough resources for good guards and leverage for contract pay.

>> No.52103444

A competent level 20 party could beat Tiamat, who is a god. Probably wouldn't take an insane number of veterans to pull it off. I guess the gods are just weak.

>> No.52103449

When you're checking stats against traps or surprises, do you check perception (to see it) or dex (to dodge it) or both?

Like, not before you arrive at it (which would be obviously perception) - the trap springs, but they wouldn't know about it just because they're in danger, because it's silent.

>> No.52103450

>What kind of low rent adventures are you doing that don't have some payment up front?

over 20 years of DMing *and* reading modules in which nobody finds it the least odd that rewards are given for doing things?

>> No.52103457


If they've triggered the trap, then just do the normal save. The save assumes that they notice it in the split second before it does it's damage or whatever, which is what the save represents. If they pass, they managed to dodge out of the way or deflect the blow or whatever.

>> No.52103502

>A competent level 20 party could beat Tiamat, who is a god

Well yeah, especially if Tiamat is being stupid.

>be queen of all evil dragons
>leader of an evil secret society dedicated to ushering in rule by dracoliches
>be in control of all abishai
>grant powers to evil clerics all across the world
>use no dracoliches, evil dragons, or abishai in your boss fight


>Probably wouldn't take an insane number of veterans to pull it off.

Q. How many 5 damage veterans does it take to beat a goddess who is immune to nonmagical weapons?
A. All of them.

Q. How many 5 damage veterans does it take to beat an ancient red dragon (darkvision 120') at night?
A. All of them, unless someone manages to cast Faerie Fire on it. Range is 60', so you can't see it. Its breath is 90'.

>> No.52103508

Cool, thanks.

I was also thinking about orphans patting down adventurers while pretending to be begging. Insight to realise what they're really doing, or Perception to see them doing it?

Is it overkill to have players roll for whichever is higher?

And even more overkill to have them roll whichever is higher, then if the higher was Insight, roll a Dex save with advantage to stop them, and if Perception was the higher, with disadvantage (as they're slower to stop them if they have to spot them doing it)?

>> No.52103517

I'd say insight to know what's up or perception to catch them in the act, but no changes to the save either way. Maybe not even have a save, it's a fairly minor thing, and a competent, reasonably athletic adult (even the wizard qualifies) should have little trouble catching a kid under normal circumstances.

>> No.52103528

Cool shit. Much obliged.

>> No.52103563

How many strong minions Tiamat has isn't really relevant. I was just talking about how deadly she herself is.

I forgot the immunity to nonmagical weapons, but ignoring that she would probably want to think twice about fighting anything even resembling a small army.

>> No.52103585

Sure, but ANY individual should probably avoid an army. 5e is designed to incorporate attrition of resources and a number of enemies, and a god is going to have minions of her own. In Tiamats case, even one or two would be enough to make a huge difference.

>> No.52103612


Yea I mean, Bahamut could probably be TKO'd against an army too if he was by himself... but he always has 7 ancient gold dragons with him as well. Those 8 together would shit on most mortal armies.

>> No.52103628

It would be very, VERY difficult for even an army of relatively competent opponents to do anything whatsoever to her. She can use her choice of two 120' lines (acid or lightning) or two 90' cones (fire, cold, poison) a round, and could do so until any true seeing/devils sight or good drow type foe would be dead, Divine Word any swarm of conjured pokemon back to the other planes, regenerates fearsomely fast, is immune to almost everything and is crazily fast. 9HD veterans aren't gonna cut it.

>> No.52103695

I guess that unless something was keeping her from flying away, should could easily just heal any damage they could do to her.
Yeah this is seeming less doable by the second.

>> No.52103696

Lets not forget the DC26 240ft Frightful Presence.

>> No.52103737

That DC is high enough that a veteran can't even succeed.

>> No.52103780

Of course the meat of the reward is given at the end, but if you're contracting adventurers of any business sense they're going to want some upfront expenses unless it's a charity case. If your town of competent guards ain't that, your adventurers are naive idiots.

>> No.52103804

Yup. It would probably take about, I don't know, 400 magic weapon attacks per round per hit (assuming a +5 bonus to hit or less), 200 (+6 to hit) or 100 (+9 to hit) from frightened people, which would probably be all of them, to score each hit.

On the plus side, if the PCs lose, Faerun is fucked up forever by a tsunami of hundreds of chromatic dragons led by Tiamat, and the PCs can fuck off to a demiplane, Sigil, or somewhere else, so its not all grim.

>> No.52103817

I wonder how many parties have legitimately defeated Tiamat in straight combat.

>> No.52103880

Its probably much easier to catch her as she stumbles confusedly from the portal from Avernus while the PCs can dogpile her and hit her with close ranged spells (not that these are likely to do much to a magic resistant, everything immune dragon bitch) than when she's flying around on the wind as an insane tornado of 20 fire, ice, lightning, acid, and poison blasts per 60 seconds.

With her immunity to level 1-6 spells, enemy casters have about 3 spells per day (1 7, 1 8, and 1 9) they can use on her at all.

Not even sure what would be best to use.

>> No.52103887


Does the spell immunity work against a level 9 magic missile? If not there's a few tricks with that we all know that could do it.

>> No.52103901

I spell cast in a higher level slot becomes a spell of that level.
9th level slot magic missile is a 9th level spell.

>> No.52103912

So nuclear druid can drop her in one round. I guess if I ever run through that adventure I'll spend 19 levels as a twilight druid then take one cleric level at 20.

>> No.52103931

Well yeah, unofficial dndwiki tier shit can work, but its more interesting to wonder how real PCs could do it.

>> No.52103935

Do you have a reference for that? The spellcasting feature and the spell descriptions don't say it, but i don't have my phb on me atm to look further than 5etools.

As for>>52103880 assuming level 7,8,9 specific spells
Prismatic Spray is probably your best bet, indigo is great, Feeblemind to cut off tactics/strategy, and maybe Power Word Kill to deal the last 100? OR imprisonment of some variety.

>> No.52103947

PHB 201. There's a section titled "casting a spell at a higher level" in the general spellcasting rules.

>> No.52103952

Wish? Can we just wish the 5 headed bitch back to the nine hells?

>> No.52103972

You misunderstand, in order to kill her you need to be in the hell anyway. Wish isn't enough to kill a god, unless your DM goes full retard anyway.

>> No.52103990

I've never gotten past level 14 and haven't played earlier editions of d&d, didn't know much about wish. If you manage to get rid of her 5 auto-saves and either get really lucky or have a Diviner with you, you could try a Quivering Palm? Unless I'm missing something in her shit ton of immunities.

>> No.52103992

Martial parties strangely have an easier time since all their hits count. If I recall correctly, there's a battlemaster centric party that does it.

>> No.52104022

Quivering Palm is one of the best strategies, as she "only" has a +10 to Con save. A level 17 monk would have a whopping 45% chance to kill (banish) her, whereas virtually every form of spell would probably have a less than 5%.

Level 7 Banishment or Divine Word spells would be the second best route. As I personally believe that an awesome foe like Tiamat should have minions, I'd probably give her at least 1 ancient dragon of each type, and so the level 7 Banishment, even when it didn't work, would have the added advantage of giving you a chance at banishing some of her flunkies too.

But yeah, Quivering Palm is dope.

>> No.52104044

Makes perfect sense.

Way I'd do it is to try to create a Prismatic Wall (sphere form) at her feet, and trust in my battlemaster, paladin, and monk buddies (hopefully at least 2 of them have Sentinel) to try to keep her in it. It wouldn't do much against her, but whatever hordes of ancient dragons and other friends she has would be unable to do much to you.

Hit her with 2-3 Quivering Palms and its over.

>> No.52104048

I'm going to be playing a Water Genasi Tempest Cleric, who believes he is the son of a sea god He isn't, destined for greatness He probably isn't, and the chosen one esque prophet for his religion. What sea god would be best for this? Is this character concept too annoying (its not for a super serious campaign but also not a joke campaign).

>> No.52104062

Kinda want to try and get my group to play through the campaign next now. I've heard it's not great but the she's the only god with stats so far right?

Also how long would it take to play if you were doing like 5-6 hours a day? Most of us don't have jobs.

>> No.52104075

Make him kinda secretive about it so when you finally tell the party they might actually believe you for a little while.

Also I don't know about what god to choose but make sure you pronounce his name wrong and dump Intelligence.

>> No.52104080

Since you are not actually the God's son then it is alright. I like the concept and it can become in many cool or funny character moments.
Have him realize the truth somewhere in the middle-end of the campaign and roleplay his reaction. That could be pretty fun to do for everyone.

>> No.52104113

>Also how long would it take to play if you were doing like 5-6 hours a day?

No idea. These modules which have 101 scene changes as they race all across the land puzzle me.

>> No.52104141

I'm still unsure on the god, leaning towards Istishia or Poseidon
I was planning on making him a very devout priest of a sea god. If he comes to trust the party sufficiently he would probably tell them that he believes himself to be the son of the sea god.
I hope that by middle to end he realizes it, and has an identity crisis. The at some point the god might recognize him (not as a son but as a fairly high level cleric and missionary). He thinks he the son of a sea god because he overheard his parents arguing, and his dad claimed he wasn't even his son (He is either the son of a Genie or his father has some genie blood way back in the family).

>> No.52104168

The UA Warforged seems lacking. Is there a better one out there?

>> No.52104176

Yeah, I think it's ok.
If it was otherwise, good2shoes from Gauntlet wouldn't like to go around with the Zhentarim fella.

>> No.52104187

not that i know of but it shouldn't be hard to homebrew something. i just feel like they need a solid feature or two, perhaps being able to add their CON mod to any saving throws once per short rest? i also had ideas about built in armor or weapons but those are kinda iffy to balance

>> No.52104229

Keith Baker, the creator of the Eberron setting, has his 5e stats for them up on his website.

>> No.52104245

A Kaladesh pyromancer Sorcerer can 4 mean as fuck Fire Storms on her and each does an average of 385 damage while ignoring resistance and immunity. The way I read it you need to target each hit in a different square she's in and she saves against them separately so her Legendary resistance won't help much. It uses unoffical content but I think most people would allow a pyromancer in their games.

This is the first time I've seen the spell Firestorm and it's dope as fuck.

>> No.52104288

The area consists of 10 cubes, and creatures in the area make a DEX save. Nowhere it says it's a save per cube. It's just a fireball with a more customized aoe.

>> No.52104296

Yep. Realised that soon after posting, I thought it was way too good to be true and some research backed that up.

Kinda felt like they should've put in a note like Meteor Swarm for us slow people.

>> No.52104302


Uh, what DM allows a level 7 spell to do 70d10 damage. Pretty sure "in the area" in the spell description means "in the area of the spell"

>> No.52104356

Anyone had any luck finding players/groups on Meetup? I would prefer to collect players for the game I'm wanting to run by just suggesting it to friends/acquaintances so I can pre-vet them but I'm impatient.

>> No.52104412

I did, in London. But it's a regular meeting place with tables, you'd have to go along to theirs and try and DM there.

>> No.52104515

A DM following RAW? Heat metal at that level can deal 77d8 damage.

But you're not wrong about the area thing.

>> No.52104525

What features should a Dexbarian focused archetype have?

>> No.52104540

Heat metal, spike growth and silence were mistakes.

>> No.52104542

Resistance to all damage aside from psychic or giving advantage to all allies attacking enemies within 5ft of you.

Considering dexbarians are the ultratanks or are supportive in some way and need a way to support other than just being really hard to kill.

>> No.52104586

One of my players want to play a Metal Genasi Sorcerer. I think I saw something about their lore once but I'm not sure what book, it was a 4e one with a bunch of elemental stuff.

Also anyone have suggestions for the subclass features? I was thinking a +1 STR, something like +1 HP per level and some kind of ribbon ability.

>> No.52104605

I would 100% refluff draconic sorcerer for it. Better AC due to stone skin, elemental themed abilities are a good fit for a genie-blooded guy (though as to what element metal would be, I'm at a loss), just lose the wings in favor of standard floaty genie flight and you're good.

Stone sorcerer might be a decent refluff as well, since metal is basically stone, but bendable.

>> No.52104609

Vs one target, and they must be wearing armor. And your party has to be on the ball, ready to flee with you.

Only thing remotely level appropriate for a 17th level caster that'd be wearing plate is a CR 17 death knight (who can dispel it) or a CR 15 vampire warrior (who can hit you with charm).

Got no problem with it.

>> No.52104617

He's already playing a Stone Sorcerer, wants the race as well though. I did offer to let him just call a human or earth gensai one but the bastard insists on the race as well.

>> No.52104632

>Playing UA
>Insisting on something that would need to be homebrewed

I think that player might have something sinister in his back pocket.

>> No.52104651

Nah my players are all retards to be quite honest.

The rest of the party's a Dual-wielding Dragonborn Eldritch Knight (He plays the same character every single time), a Gnome mountain land druid and a Human Conjurer.

>> No.52104676

If you do, make sure to either pick players who have never played before, or heavily vet experienced players.

If an experienced player is looking for a game online, it's either because they've just moved to the new location, or because they've burned all their bridges with previous groups. On the other hand, new players are generally either already pretty cool, or they'll pick up on good vs bad TTG behavior/etiquette from their first group - provided you've got a decent base group they usually end up being great.

My group recruits exclusively from my city's subreddit, and we've never had a problem. Each time we've had to recruit a new member we'll get around 5-10 replies, usually saying "never played but always wanted to" or similar. The account system actually works in our favor - because it's a forum with usernames, we can go through post history to find out about a person then PM them if we like them, and if they're shit we can just ignore them completely.

>> No.52104711

Officially, metal genasi have never had stat blocks, but I guess.

Yeah, additional HP per level is ok, and then maybe have the ribbon ability be something like being able to fix metal items as if you had mending cantrip.

>> No.52104721

Oh, I misunderstood.

>>52104711's suggestion seems alright.

>> No.52104722

Metal only Mending's a good one, would giving him a utility spell like or Darkvision be too much?

>> No.52104737

Ignore the utility spell thing, I fucked up.

>> No.52104744

Is there a mega for random stuff from the dms guild? Or is there any recomendations of adventures worth buying from there? Don't have a lot of money to spend maybe up to 10$?

>> No.52104747


Thanks, that makes sense. Favorite group I ever DMed for had never played before. Picked it up quick, pretty much never metagamed.

>> No.52104753

Maybe not darkvision, doesn't make much sense with metal.

I wanna say poison resistance (damage and saves - have you ever tried to poison a robot?) but I dunno if that's really all that fitting.

>> No.52104772


+1 STR
+1 HP per level, because he's tough.
Mending on metal objects, because metal.
Poison Resistance, because he's a fucking robot'

Looks about on par with other options

>> No.52104866

Friend of mine is about to DM a one-shot and I was thinking of playing a Awakened Mystic. As we're not hitting that level cap, I don't think there will be any problem.

Are there any big design/balance problems in the class that i should be aware of to adjust properly?

>> No.52104940

Nah, it's good. People would say it's too bursty, but after the warlock ua it isn't as impressive as it was.

>> No.52105200

You can also find other ways of sticking metal in them.

And any half-decent team should actually know when running away is a good idea, and easily be able to facilitate it. Though I'll admit, it's harder to make this happen than it sounds with people insisting on playing melee hero and all that.

Still, heat metal is on a similar level to power word: kill at level 2 if you get the situation right with an armour wearing mob.
Heat metal should be used for making enemies drop their weapons and force them to fight other ways, or to leave someone unable to attack properly because of their armour, but not to seal doom for anyone wearing armour.

>> No.52105201

There's a mega in the copypasta. There are also some good Pay What You Want adventures I know of if that's not enough for you

>> No.52105213

Some of the mind control is bullshit.

Particularly that one that makes someone believe anything.

It's a spammable 'okay, you now fight your teammates' button.

>> No.52105257

Forgot about that fucking spell. Is it reasonable to make it at least require LOS to cause the recurring damage?

>> No.52105310

I'd say it's perfectly reasonable. You don't lose concentration, but can't use the bonus action if you can't see them.

>> No.52105315

>>52102140 My DM runs something like this, there is a great sand sea to the north of our city and there's loads of temples and Yuan-ti to fight, it's sick af, I burst down a mummy lord at level 3 in like 2 turns too

>> No.52105317


For a long time, I actually forgot Monster Hunter existed.

>> No.52105420

>have chill touch
>[optional] have spell sniper
>be far from enemy
>use familiar/arcane eye/scrying to locate enemy
>attack with chill touch
>the enemy can't locate you because distance

Find me a problem with this logic /tg/.

>> No.52105432

Are you trying to say there is legitimately no distinction between killing and murder?

Because I'm sure you'll understand why that's retarded

>> No.52105443

Chill touch is not a touch spell.

>> No.52105445

So pretty much a dwarf, huh?

>> No.52105471

A creature with total cover can't be targeted directly with a spell, PHB 196

>> No.52105496

The enemy still has total cover from you, the caster.

Even if it didn't, you're poking the enemy with a relatively weak cantrip from a great distance and alerting them to your party's presence. What's to stop them from uniting with the other encounters in the area and going on a hunt for your ass?

>> No.52105560


Less powerful chilltouchery:
>cast silent image to create tens of spectral hands like chill touch produces
>actually cast chill touch once to attack the target
>target thinks tens of mages are attacking him

>> No.52105605

>physical interaction with silent image reveals it to be an illusion because there's no other sensory information, just visuals
>chill touch hand grabs the target

>> No.52105618

I hit level 3 with my Bard who is against armour, and thinks it is stupid. Mostly thematic, and didn't read the rules that much in depth, thinking it was just too fitting to pass up.

We got to a scary BBEG type of guy for our low level campaign, a "Black Orc" with a huge plate armour equipped. He was introduced as killing 5 guards we knew were about as strong as we were. I cast heat metal hoping it would slow him down, the Warlock knocked him back, and we ran.

5 turns later he died after a few repelling EBs and heat metal.

The GM said we weren't intended to kill him. He kept asking what the saves were, and how he could avoid it. When I said the spell required dropping the affected piece, he sat there, reading through his book for 5 minutes or so, and just asked us to roll a couple of times as the orc pursued us.

I actually feel bad about it, and are trying to reason my switch to another spell, as my Neutral Good character feeling extremely terrible about the act of slowly burning a living being to death in his own armour.

It just felt like cheating. We were intended to run, not kill him, but heat metal + running is apparently quite capable of killing any metal armoured enemy...

>> No.52105675

Out of curiosity and being fairly new to dnd, what is a nuclear druid, or any nuclear class (e.g. I've seen nuclear wizard being thrown about before)

>> No.52105678

The enemy could try to sunder the straps of their armour off (Probably at a disadvantage due to disadvantage on skill checks and leaving them poorly armoured afterwards)

If it's a lone enemy, the problem is that a single, lone creature is weak. Why would a boss go around by himself? Does he think he's some cool edgy anime dude boss? No, he needs back-up support. Everybody does. The support them attacks the one concentrating on the spell, or the guy himself tries to attack.

I'd also houserule that you have to be within 60ft of the target and have line of sight to use the bonus action to inflict more damage. Though you won't lose concentration just for leaving the 60ft range. This prevents the one using heat metal from just teleporting to another plane and dealing completely unavoidable damage, and allowing the one in armour to try to flee somewhere safe other than just a pool of water.

Repelling blast is also part of the problem because if it's a single enemy just endlessly charging at you, you can easily keep them from getting to you simply by hitting and running.

>> No.52105712

Arcana Cleric 1, Twilight Druid 17 (From Unearthed Arcana), Fighter 2.

Cleric gives you Magic Missile. Druid gives you Harvest Dice.

Harvest Dice give you an extra 1d10 damage on a spell. Magic missile launches several projectiles, but every projectile uses the same damage roll - so if you spend 5 harvest dice, every projectile is doing an extra 5d10 damage.

Then Fighter's Action Surge lets you do it twice.

I don't have the maths to hand, but it lets you OHKO pretty much everything. There are no other nuclear classes.

>> No.52105716

There's two different methods of doing damage in D&D. Either sustained damage, which is a high amount of damage sustained over any number of turns, or burst/nova damage, which is a huge amount of damage that can be done only once or twice every short/long rest. The prefix 'nuclear' is used to compare the character to a nuclear bomb - it's absolutely devastating but it only has one use.

So the nuclear druid is a character build that does an insane amount of damage in a single turn, once every long rest. An average of over a thousand force damage that very few enemies have a method of avoiding.

See image for details.

>> No.52105750

Nuclear Ghandi is a more convoluted way of getting a similar effect with Monk, and once Lore Wizard was released people were thinking of ways to try and maximize the Harvest Scythe damage, but that doesn't actually work, so nuclear wizard never really existed.

>> No.52105751

Hey guys.

Been out of D&D for a bit, could someone get me the short list of what has come out since the Out of the abyss adventure?

>> No.52105757

Note that it requires an obviously not RAI combination of multiclassing and UA, references a different ability on sage advice, while ignoring the sage advice that clearly says UA isn't tuned or worded for multiclassing anyway.

>> No.52105799

Its less that "Multiclassing UA is not RAI", but rather "YMMV". Plus, it seems like they found better wording once Lore Wizard came around, so no doubt they've payed attention to what might happen. Those are necessary find if they ever plan on releasing UA as published content.

>> No.52105812

>Be tranquility monk
>Get angry when someone hurts something
>Nuke the fuck out of them
>Enslave world with nuclear magic missile wands and force people to make more
>Whenever someone pisses you off, they get nuked

It was fun until nuclear druid took the throne.

>> No.52105922

>be level 20
>countered by shield spell

Seriously now, if shield can nullify magic missile, why not eldritch blast as well?

>> No.52105946

>Counterspell the shield
Wow, hard. Have extra counterspellers or a sorcerer for subtle counterspell if you're worried about the enemy having counterspell too.

Shield is probably intended to be one of very few counters for magic missile, while eldritch blast can be countered by not being hit in the first place. In a way.

There are rings of 'immunity to magic missile' somewhere, though. So you cast heat metal on said rings.

>> No.52105966

That's the point retard. Only the real chill touch grabs the target. The others pretend to miss. There is no way for a fighter-y type to find out if all these are real or not.

>> No.52105984

Brooch of Shielding, not a ring.

>> No.52105987

>Wow, hard. Have extra counterspellers or a sorcerer for subtle counterspell if you're worried about the enemy having counterspell too.

A sorcerer casts subtle shield. No way to counterspell that.

>> No.52106058

*rolls nat twenty for perception*
*beings foaming at the mouth and starts spewing memes*

>> No.52106061

>An enemy with both the subtle metamagic and shield
You're more likely to see an enemy that has the terrasque's reflective plating.

You could simply try to bait the enemy into using their reaction by triggering an opportunity attack, however.
Or hit them with shocking grasp or dissonant whispers.

Close enough. Only problem is if there's no physical contact with the person wearing it.

>> No.52106081

They can on a natural 20, which always automatically succeeds.

Still, that means 1 in 20 veterans in the army are standing their ground, while 19 in 20 are fleeting for their lives.

>> No.52106086

Which could be argued, with a broach. Brooches rarely have direct skin contact.

>> No.52106088

>They can on a natural 20, which always automatically succeeds.
Only on attack rolls, dumbass.

>> No.52106146

Instead you need a single level 11 paladin to make rounds and cure them all of fear unless you don't become fear immune after the first save.

Or, even, a level 8 paladin just using +5 to everyone's saves with an aura of better saves.

>> No.52106150

I don't mean to pry, but...do you happen to have six fingers on your left hand?

Inigo Montoya killed four men in five seconds with as many sword swings from a single weapon. That makes him...terrifying, in D&D terms..and exactly the kind of guy I'd send after any PC murderhobo who did this.

>> No.52106182

Hmm, I must be letting my 3.5 slip in. We've been running with "natural 20 on a saving throw is an automatic success" in HotDQ/RoT.


>> No.52106224

A level 2 fighter can make 4 attacks in a round, easily. PAM. Normal attack, action surge attack, bonus attack, reaction attack.

Or GWM with GWM's bonus attack and some reaction attack as someone runs.

If it's against commoners, you can easily kill with each hit.

So that guy's probably about a level 5 fighter.

>> No.52106253

Yeah, but Inigo isn't using a polearm or a great weapon, he's using a rapier.

>> No.52106261

>Running Ravenloft for Fifth with Curse of Strahd splat over Google Hangouts/Roll20
>Realize very quickly all the flavor text and "Read this" stuff is going to take fucking forever to do aloud
>Rip the pdf, copy and past every single room and location description in the ENTIRE valley of Barovia directly from the book into a vast web of player handouts that can be summoned with a click
>Now when they enter an area I can say "You see this" and up pops the flavor text
>Kind of feel like this is cheating but fuck me if I'm going to read an entire book of purple prose over my laptop microphone

Am I lazy, autistic, or a genius /tg/?

Also, Barovia is great. The players ran away from Count Strahd the moment they saw him (they're level 3) except for the cleric who just hung around throwing spells at him for 5 rounds. Strahd was very amused by this.

They also used Command to hitch a wild pig to their wagon and now they have a pig-wagon for maximum shenanigans. Ireena Kolyana is utterly baffled by them.

>> No.52106280

You're lazy with a touch of autism.

>> No.52106292

That scene was imo one of the better examples for whirlwind attack in 3e.

>> No.52106294

Nothing ruins the atmosphere faster than a DM who can't even be bothered to read/type out flavor text. I've DMed CoS twice before, and your laziness offends me on a personal level.

>> No.52106296

That just means he's at least 5th level for Extra Attack.
>Am I lazy, autistic, or a genius /tg/?
Possibly lazy, probably autistic, definitely a dumbass because the book says you can just paraphrase those sections if you want. End of the day, though, you're conveying the information to the players, so who cares.

>> No.52106307

Guys, anyone has official printable maps from hoard of the dragon queen?
like picrelated

>> No.52106311

not him but have you tried Trouble in Waterdeep, and if yes, is it any good?

>> No.52106318

Just paraphrase. I would literally only skip the descriptions if I was sick.

>> No.52106348

It's great until your party gets to level 7/8 and they can easily defeat strahd.
In my version he has a death knight and a load of ghouls as a body guard just to make sure they don't alpha strike him down in 2 rounds.
My big problem with Ravenloft/Barovia is it has a balance that assumes things are done in a certain order.
For example there's an event in Vallaki that will easily rip a level 3 or lower group to bits, but the closest dungeon is a walk through for the same group.

Also I think the amber temple is by the book vastly more dangerous than castle ravenloft.

My group enjoys it when I read them the flavour.

>> No.52106383

In the Mega trove, you'll find the link in the OP.

>> No.52106404

>Also I think the amber temple is by the book vastly more dangerous than castle ravenloft.
Definitely. I had a near TPK there (killing two PCs, knocking another out and nearly killing an NPC, with the two remaining PCs surviving cause they weren't bunched up on a small balcony).

>> No.52106415

>That just means he's at least 5th level for Extra Attack.

Attack Action
Action Surge
Extra Attack

That leaves him shy 2 attacks. None of Count Ruger's minions did anything that would have provoked a reaction attack; and you can't make attacks with a bonus action unless fighting with two weapons (which Inigo wasn't) or you have a class feature which says you can (which he doesn't)

>You can take a bonus action only when a special ability, spell, or other feature of the game states you can do something as a bonus action. You otherwise don't have a bonus action to take.
- PHB pg. 189.

To make 5 attacks with a single weapon on his turn he'd have to have three Extra Attacks total, not one. Which would make him 20th level.

>> No.52106483

No reason they might've gained a bonus action attack from somewhere. It's everywhere. And, at least, battlemaster can riposte to make a reaction attack, so unless the minions were not even trying to attack at all then that's a possible reaction attack.

And didn't you say they made four attacks? A level 5 fighter easily makes four attacks.

>> No.52106498

Hahahahahahaha. Go read the book, anon. Once a fighter reaches level 5 and gains Extra Attack, their Attack Action is comprised of two attacks, and Action Sure allows for another action, which can be the Attack Action for two more attacks.

>> No.52106499

wow, thanks

>> No.52106546

>And didn't you say they made four attacks?

I said "Inigo Montoya killed four men in five seconds with as many sword swings from a single weapon." So that's 5 swings. I counted both the seconds and the swings.

Specifically he sliced minion 1, stabbed minion 2, stabbed minion 1 (who was behind him now), stabbed minion 3, and then stabbed minion 4.

You can see it here, starting from 1:15, and it's over by 1:20


>No reason they might've gained a bonus action attack from somewhere.

No reason he can't be 20th level, either. That doesn't mean the same thing in 5e that it did in 3.PF.

>> No.52106556

Which would still leave him shy 1 attack. So, fine: he's at minimum 11th level, which is still probably a higher level then a murderhobo who kills swordsmiths rather than pays them is ever likely to reach.

>> No.52106780

Has anyone had any experience with homebrewing archetypes? I want to try my hand at making a Paladin archetype but I'm not sure how to go about keeping features in step with the general progression of the archetypes in the game.

>> No.52106826

There's literally a UA about this. Hang on...

>> No.52107039

action surge at level 20 gets you 8 attacks by itself anon. at level 5 it gets you 4 attacks before somehow using your bonus as an attack.

>> No.52107150

Not every movement is represented by an attack roll. This is made a lot more explicit in older versions, but a lot of movements in combat (e.g. the initial slash) are feints, swings meant to reposition, even parries. At the end of the day, Inigo "attacks" 4 times, which any fighter can do at 5th level.

>> No.52107212

>Not every movement is represented by an attack roll.

But each attack on a separate creature is, and the sequence is important: Minion 1, then Minion 2, then Minion 1 again. I.e., 3 attacks right there.

>> No.52107376

What do you prefer as your players´ homebase and general center for adventuring? A single, small country of group of countries, or on the road stuff like merchant caravans, as in old school Darksun and Al-Qadim?

>> No.52107440

Having a place to come back to and be able to afford the cool things we saw earlier is pretty neato. It gives a feeling of improvement.

>> No.52107471

Nah, the first one is a defensive movement of some sort. If you HAVE to have it be represented mechanically it's probably some sort of Battlemaster thing (Parry or Riposte). Frankly I'm surprised nobody in this dumbass argument mentioned all the reactions Battlemasters get.

>> No.52107504

Inigo could be a Battle Master, but I think I prefer him as a pure Champion. He's highly skilled and has studied extensively, but his expertise in anything not relating to swords is completely lacking (i.e., when he's told there's 30 men guarding the gate, and figures that he could take 10 and Fezik could take another 10, he has to count on his fingers to determine how many would be left).

>> No.52107606

I want to argue that fencers are typically Battlemasters but he does use the Champion's Survivor feature.
Inigo is level 18+ confirmed
(I was new to the argument and playing devil's advocate; I actually do think they're all very high-level characters)

>> No.52107680

Hiya /5eg/. For my group's next campaign, I plan on playing a draconic sorcerer with a silver dragon ancestor. Since that means I get bonuses to cold-damage spells, what are my best options in that regard? Cone of Cold seems like an obvious pick, but what else?

>> No.52107756

Alright, so what are the level of most of the civilian NPCs of a setting? I feel like most people on Earth would be between level 1 to 4 with experienced professional soldiers and hedge wizards being like around 6 to 8.

Though I kinda feel that even level 1 Adventurers should seem competent by peasant standards.

>> No.52107779

Why don't you read the Monster Manual and see for yourself? Your average city guard is worse than level 1, a knight or an experienced veteran is roughly comparable to level 5.

>> No.52107797

Thank you, forgot they had sample NPCs desu.

>> No.52107815

Also, when did this website start turning the t b h abbreviation into desu?

>> No.52107841

...literally years ago.

>> No.52107852

You're new, and don't try to pretend you aren't desu senpai

>> No.52107853

When people like you who commonly use it started coming to this website.

>> No.52107915

Just never used it before been here for about a year and a half, so yeah relatively new. Just didn't notice it on other boards before.

>> No.52107979

>didn't notice
Cause it doesn't on other boards. Which are you from ?

In before /v/

>> No.52108011

/his and /lit mostly but this was the first board I browsed.

>> No.52108019

Worth taking storm sorcerer 5 or 6 on a tempest cleric for lightning bolt?

>> No.52108046

Theres a pathfinder campaign I'm in which for a number of reasons is switching over to 5e. My chars a two handed fighter armed with a scythe and I'm not quite sure on how to keep his 'heavy crit' identity through the conversion. Any ideas?

>> No.52108071

Might wanna just homebrew something and check with the dm.

>> No.52108101

It's more likely you saw "desu" and just thought people were using it on purpose.

>> No.52108154

Champion Fighter gets crits easier, Barbarians get larger crits.
For the scythe, ask to use the Glaive statblock, I guess.

>> No.52108159

How the hell do I come up with a name for my character that I won't regret by next week?

>> No.52108295

So I know that Warlocks tend to pair hex with eldritch blast, but what other cantrips can it help with? I feel like hex's disadvantage can really boost poisonspray. What are some good uses for Hex besides boosting the warlock's damage?

>> No.52108401

So I have a friend constructing a mildly homebrew darkest dungeon setting. The premise is essentially the same as the game. I decided it would be cool to make all the classes in the game as playable 5e characters. They come with back story and fluff so all that's need is:


This is what I'm considering so far:


Fighter sharpshooter

>Bounty hunter
Fighter/Rogue with plenty of NETS

Paladin Oath of Vengeance

>Grave robber
Straight rogue assassin

Barbarian berserker

? rogue with hand crossbow instead of pistol?

>Hound Master
Ranger beast master, not sure what weapon to give him?

Bard/rogue or straight bard with a sickle as primary weapon

Fighter Champion/Monster hunter. With a broken great sword of course

Fighter knight

? Warlock old one patron?

>Plague doctor
Artificer alchemist

? Cleric or light?

Equipment will be easy enough the some of the characters wont take full advantage of their starting class feats. A lot of martial too, but I assume the game will be fairly low magic.

Any thoughts or suggestions?

>> No.52108475

>I feel like hex's disadvantage can really boost poisonspray
its disadvantage on ability checks not saving throws

>> No.52108576

Get levels in rogue and use Reckless Attack to Sneak Attack all the time.

>> No.52108587

Hex for disadvantage on insight checks was what I used on my face warlock. Higher level casts meant i could just fool them even longer, disguise self plus beguiling influence meant that I was pretty much the bard.

>> No.52108602

If your setting has items for it, Wand of Lightning Bolts is a rare item.

>> No.52108624

Alright gentlemen!

How do we Make Strength Great Again?

>> No.52108633

>the only spell that actually does dick to casters
>a mistake

>> No.52108636

have you tried being a Fighter or Barbarian

>> No.52108662

Anybody else at a loss for good adventure ideas and just blatantly steal the plot from a game or book you know your players have never seen?

>tfw I ran Witcher Hearts of Stone with only minor differences and no one noticed over the course of 6 sessions and everyone loved it.
>Plan on doing the same with plot elements from Legacy of Kain.

Feels good man.

>> No.52108672

Stop believing in bad memes?

>> No.52108702

Nothing is original, everything is an adaptation of something else, the only difference between an original and a rip off is how much work you put into making it something else.

Everyone does it and it's awesome.

>> No.52108812

If in your experience you feel that strength is underpowered after playing for hundreds of hours as a strength based martial I guess you can make a change. I don't believe it's underpowered but I'll put you in the right direction.

>Follow Through: Strength based weaponry is about hitting hard and breaking through defenses, if your total attack roll including bonuses is under the target's AC, but over 10, your attack does minor damage as it hit's the opponent's defenses but not effectively.

>Deal damage equal to half your Strength Modifier, rounded down. This damage is the same type as your weapon, either bludgeoning, piercing, or slashing. Spells and abilities that rely on dealing damage such as a barbarian rage or hunter's mark, do not activate.

>> No.52108890

It is RAI. Why do they let Magic Missile apply damage multiple times? The whole 'simultaneous means one damage roll, obviously!' thing barely makes sense, but they morphed the game to be this way when they could have let it gone in any other direction.

>> No.52108922


I ran Knights of the Old Republic set in Faerun. Heavily modified like having Revan as a villain group to accommodate the PC party numbers but the same ideas and plot structure.

Realizing they were the bad guys before had them reeling.

Also tell more on your Heart of Stone, anon? I just recently beat Heart of Stone and LOVED it and was thinking of stealing shit as well. How did you run with Not-Gaunter?

>> No.52109017

Can 5e run operators operating in operations?

>> No.52109027

Carry capacity.

Make more dynamic combats (thus, grappling/shoving is more useful)

Magical heavy armour.

Take away compulsory feats, add in free parts of the compulsory feats (because people who go strength who don't take feats are honestly not making any good use of being strength)

>> No.52109071

What are some shenanigans you have done with magical items? I got one.

>Be a conjuration wizard, fighting a celestial with a powerful Morningstar. I got my air elemental. I speak Auran and tell the elemental to disarm him. On Elemental's turn the celestial drops their morning star at their feet. My turn comes and I run over, free action pick up the weapon, action to stow it into my bag of holding, bonus action misty step away.

Fight is a cake walk from there on.

>> No.52109150

>Fight is a cake walk from there on
What, it didn't then think 'Oh crap, I'd better get out of here'?
Sounds more like a generic monster than a celestial.

>> No.52109165

Does anyone else think the Spelless Ranger variant makes the Battle Master useless?

>> No.52109184

It actually tried to do that but Air Elemental followed and uppercut it. Was pretty simple though.

>> No.52109202

This is why you always carry with you a vest full of bombs.

>> No.52109218


I don't hate what you have going on there but 1/2 str modifier is too little to be meaningful. That's 2 at best.

>> No.52109279

>stack up on a door
>Ranger throws Silence into the room
>shit-stirrers with Darkvision bumrush the occupants and beat the everloving shit out of them
The story of my PotA game. Add Hypnotic Pattern for Flashbangs.

>> No.52109293

Yeah I don't think strength is underpowered at all but the OP does. So small little boosts like that is all I could recommend with a clear conscious.

It is almost guaranteed damage though, and makes big enemies, especially Giants, more powerful. That's more concentration checks even with shield on.

>> No.52109391

what alignment is a character who is works for an organisation that they believe is a force for good in the world, but is actually super evil and destructive, murderous etc.? but the character thinks theyre doing the right thing

>> No.52109444

He follows the rules laid out before him in pursuit of helping people. Lawful Good.

If he's doing it for financial or personal gain but is happy he's doing some good as well, more neutral.

If he's doing it completely for his personal gain and doesn't care for who it helps unless it can help him, Lawful Evil.

>> No.52109456

Chaotic neutral? Remember morality in DnD is objective. An evil character that believes he/she is doing the right thing is still evil.

>> No.52109457

Strength's problem isn't that it's underpowered when you need it for your class, but that it's underpowered when you don't need it. Wisdom, dexterity and con are all 'god stats' in a way. They each are the most important saves, con gives +1 HP, dex gives +initiative, wisdom gives +passive perception, and then dex and wis also have a bunch of skills attached.

Strength is better off than int and cha generally, but still way below the top three.

>> No.52109488


It doesn't matter if they do evil by mistake, if their intention is 'Support others and civilization' then it's be lawful good, even if their actions actually hurt people and promoted chaos.

>> No.52109516

If the DM sticks to enemies in the Monster Manyal then I agree strength doesn't do much, but in the game I run people often make strength saves to not be knocked prone by martial enemies and soon I'll be throwing disarms at them.

The Monster Manual has mostly wolf enemies forcing strength saves but other than that not much.

Strength is only as good as DMs let it be, most let it fall to the way side and that's why people think it's underpowered. It's strong when your DM wants it to be, like everything else.

>> No.52109519

Oh, but, think of it this way:

'The organisation asked me to kill this innocent looking man. I -'
Refuse. - Chaotic Good
Make sure to question him and work out what's going on before carrying out action. Lawful Good
Kill him, because that's what I was told to do. - Lawful Evil
Kill him, because I honestly don't give a fuck I just want that fucking paycheck already - Chaotic Evil

>> No.52109559

Alignment is a non-mechanic in 5e. There's no point arguing over it.

>> No.52109616

Innocent looking is subjective and you are getting into the grey areas where 9 options are showing their weakness.

Killing him no questions asked can be seen different ways but it's how he feels. If he kills no questions asked, it could be because he trusts the organization, he can be lawful good then, it could be he doesn't care and just wants to get paid, lawful neutral or lawful evil depending on other things.

Remember that alignment is short hand for a character's personality, it isn't going to be perfect. It's best to forget about it and focus on the character unless you are homebrewing in an alignment mechanic.

>> No.52109648


Most D&D settings, like Forgotten Realms, have an objective morality. Intention DOES NOT matter. There is a list of shit that is Evil and a list of shit that is Good and the thing in charge of it doesn't give a hoot what your end-goal is, how you're feeling at the moment, or whether someone or something "deserved" what you're doing to it. Mind-control, true accidents, and consequences that could not be reasonably foreseen make the whole thing not count.

>I blew up the orphanage to kill the lich
>but I killed the lich
You also killed a hundred orphans. Evil.
>but the lich was going to kill them anyway
That would have been on him, not you. Evil.
>but I saved the entire kingdom as a result
Doesn't matter, you don't get any Good for that. Evil.
>the orphans were real shitters though
Still doesn't matter. Evil.

>I blew up the lich's lair to kill the lich
>but there was a child in the basement
Unfortunate. You did some Good, but you also did some Evil.
>no one knew, though; there was zero indication any innocents were inside the lich's lair and no one had any reason to suspect it. in fact, divination magic failed to find anyone else in the lair except the lich, so the child must have been shielded
Then you're right back on to only Good. There was no way for you to know. Congrats. The only punishment is your own conscience.

>> No.52109666

if he's doing it because he thinks he's doing the right thing and in support of law and order he is LG. If the true nature of things is revealed to him in a way he cannot refute such a character should by the rules you have laid out in their creation abandon the evil organization they're supporting.

If you're trying to use this to be a faggot to a player in a game you're running, don't.

>hurr durr you killed a lawful good guy so you fall Paladin

>> No.52109700

The alignment of the person you're killing doesn't matter. You can't gruesomely murder or torture some NPC just because he's Evil instead of Good. Hell, you shouldn't really be murdering people to begin with. If you're truly all about that Goodness, you wouldn't even be killing them in a straight-up fight if you could avoid it; subdue and turn them over to the authorities.

>> No.52109715

I find this is an interesting take on alignment, I didn't realize Forgotten realms has a callous view on good and evil.

One evil action doesn't mean you are turned evil in this case I believe? You can be good and do something evil but that doesn't mean you are automatically evil, just not as good now.

>> No.52109725

I just became a level 10 Divination Wizard, and although I have very powerful Concentration spells (Polymorph, Animate Objects, Wall of Force) I am lacking things to do in-between.
I feel a scorching ray or a fireball just don't do that much anymore.

I am now preparing Mirror Image, and I even considered Blink (neither require concentration) simply because I thought staying alive and maintaining concentration is so much more powerful than a stupid 10-15 damage scorching ray.

What do you guys suggest?
I also don't know what to pick as my two new spells, Cone of Cold? It's just another dumb damage spell. Hold Monster maybe? It's yet another concentration spell.
I actually think I might find more use out of Modify Memory in out of combat situations than a damage spell.

>> No.52109735

I'm the guy you called right. I kind of disagree. Even good characters are allowed to do 'utilitarian calculus' to see if the ends justify the means. Certain types of good characters would balk at doing evil for the greater good, but I can conceive of a good character that would have no problem justifying killing orphans to save the kingdom. Like an Oath of Vengeance Paladin.

>> No.52109752

thanks satan

no its for a new character i wanted to make, the idea is hes a thief in a secret guild thats sent out into the world to steal magical artefacts and the like. he thinks that the guild is storing the items away for the safety of the world or whatever, but theyre actually stockpiling and selling them to an evil empire in the game

>> No.52109780

Next level you can select sunbeam, concentration but with blink or mirror image it could work well, 6d8 radiant damage every turn for 10 turns just need the room for it. Other than that you are kind of in the same spot as me, no real constant damage sources that aren't concentration, focus more on debuffs than anything else I guess.

>> No.52109795

Your alignment reflects the sum of all your actions.
There's just about nothing that you could do on your own that would instantly drop you into Evil territory from dead-center Neutral, let alone Good. Effects that do that are like, artifacts and Deck of Many Things-type shit.

So a Good character can do Evil and not become Evil. Hell, they can still stay Good if it's just a tiny Evil thing and they're overwhelmingly Good.

It also isn't a zero-sum game. The same act can vary in the amount of Good or Evil it is for a PC based on how Good or Evil they are to begin with.

A (classical, non-5E) Paladin who murders a child takes on more Evil than an already hideously-evil Lich who murders that same child in the same way. Evil prefers Good to be corrupted over Evil just getting worse. On the flipside, a devilish necromancer who goes out of his way to save a poor child stuck in a well and return him to his parents without reward takes on more Good for himself than if the Paladin had done the same thing. Good prefers Evil to be redeemed, rather than Good just getting even more holy.

>> No.52109806

That wouldn't be lawful good unless the man clearly shows the signs that he might be able to escape and fuck you over if you ask him.

Even if your organisation tells you to, being good rather than evil means to make sure you put others before you.

You'd have to be really, really naive, to the point of 'Uhh, people don't have feelings, so I don't have to worry about just killing someone because I was told to?' at which point you're innately evil through other means.

And, yes, it's just a simple form of personality.

>I've just saved the fucking planet by making a few sacrifices
Woah there.

>> No.52109819


I think the main thing is that it sounds like you should just use more spells out of combat. Enlarge/Reduce is low level, but one I find immensely fun for chicanery. Rary's Telepathic Bond and Wall of Stone might provide you more out of combat options to mess around with as well. In-combat, if you don't like damage spells, then you're only really going to be selecting one concentration spell and using that. Bigby's Hand is amazing both in and out of combat.

>> No.52109823

That's the rub: the real Greater Good (or Evil) exists on a scale beyond what mortals perceive. Because of the shit at the end of >>52109795, a Paladin doing Evil "for the Greater Good" is actually harming universal, cosmic Good far more than if he'd just let that a bunch of other Evil shit happen on its own.

Bro, it's "Good", not I'm A Nice Guy When It's Convenient.

>> No.52109886


You're making the choice between letting the guy get away because you didn't just kill him then and there (Thus allowing them to go on and kill more people) or killing them (Thus preventing further deaths).

You have to weigh up how unsure you are about who the person is with the danger of finding out who they are.

You're not stopping being nice by killing him without questioning him. You're just choosing between two questionable choices.

>> No.52109916

I think one of the best parts of DnD is that these things can be argued about (preferably in-game, in-character). The best RPing I've seen out of my characters is when a no-easy-way-out moral decision is on the line.

>> No.52109917

I am a psycho and I hate laughter and fun.
Are there any good D&D podcasts that are more serious and not all comedy and jokesters?

>> No.52109966

As long as in the end it's
'This is what my character would do, and he does this because it will help others' then it's good, I suppose.

So you could honestly do all sorts of things and argue it be good, as long as it's not at the level of 'People like to die I guess so I'd better kill everybody' at which point the inhuman morality sets you to evil.

>> No.52110008

You don't perform any Evil by letting this lich run around and destroy a kingdom. You DO perform Evil by slaughtering orphans.

You don't get alignment points for sitting on your hands. If your concern is your immortal soul, you let the lich get away with it. If you view things on a more myopic level, okay, stop him and justify it however you want to yourself.

Remember: just because this shit is cosmically true doesn't mean the PCs have to A) know it to begin with or B) care about things at that level.
The universe operating under an objective morality doesn't mean a civilization's subjective morality goes away. It just means alignment shifts aren't happening due to the latter. PCs can argue and act however they like.

>> No.52110012

No matter what I build it's just seems to be another way to fluff rolling a d20 at someone. Are there any interesting builds or characters that you guys could suggest? I want something unsual and fun to play.

>> No.52110029

Anyone play a melee Dex battlemaster?

Rapier/Shield, Dual Shortswords, Dual/Rapiers etc.

How did it go? Any difference between strength?

>> No.52110064

"I don't want no trouble" Monk:

Unearthed Arcana Tranquility Monk. At will sanctuary and healing. Bonus points for calling him Jack Ichan, and running around with improvised weapons for when sanctuary fails.

>> No.52110143

You perform evil through inaction.

A cat is burning in front of you. Do you put it out, or do you just leave it there?
Apparently, just leaving it there is okay, because it's not YOUR fault, and it's not YOUR problem.
Which is a fine evil/neutral philosophy.

Now, just put in a suitable sacrifice to represent the death of the orphanage in comparison to the death of the whole kingdom (including the orphanage). Say, having to amputate one of the cat's legs for some reason in the process.

Well, I don't even know why I'm using that analogy. The point is, if you're going for 'Alignment isn't personality' then, if anything, not killing those orphans is a reflection of personality - even though this is an objectively evil thing to do (It will result in the deaths of many), your emotions about killing people have overcome you and you can't do it.

>> No.52110176


Well, welcome to a d20 system?

>> No.52110202


>> No.52110248

Nope level 5 hunter ranger with horde breaker

>> No.52110272

Not only do they get all the Ranger abilities and archetype abilities, they also get the same superiority dice. They only get 2 maneuvers as opposed to 3, but the amount of utility and abilities they get still is way more than the fighter.

>> No.52110331

>You perform evil through inaction.
You're conflating objective morality in D&D with subjective morality.

Letting a cat burn isn't Evil. Setting it on fire is.

evil with a lowercase e != Evil with the uppercase E

>> No.52110357

Anyone have link to some concise reviews of the various 5e adventure books?

My group is finishing up Rise of The Runelords soon and would like to do a 5e game next, but im not sure which one sounds the most interesting to run. Im guessing probably not Storm Kings though since my group will be Gianted out by then.

>> No.52110376

It's alright I guess, trading in combat for out of combat abilities. Second Wind and Action Surge keep your action economy running smooth, extra feats for your combat feats to make what you do better, and you can get heavy armor, so rangers are forced to Dex to be in comparison, and you won't do the most damage in a turn being a Dex player that isn't a rogue or a revised ranger.

Cool but not explicitly better.

>> No.52110380

Leomund's Tiny Hut

>Creatures and objects within the dome when you cast this spell CAN MOVE THROUGH IT FREELY.

>All other creatures, and objects are barred from passing through it. Spells and other magical effects CAN'T EXTEND THROUGH THE DOME OR BE CAST THROUGH IT.

Besides, Dispel Magic, Anti-magic zone, etc...

Is this thing an 8 hour invulnerable force field? Just poke your bow or half your body outside it to cast a spell, duck back inside for protection.

Front liner fall down nearby outside the dome? Drag him back in for healing.

I think this spell just gained some new combat utility in sieges.

>> No.52110394

CoS is great, the others are not bad I have been told.

>> No.52110408

He just second winds after getting stabbed

>> No.52110431

Champion fighter 3
Barbarian 17

>> No.52110441

is there anything overly strong or weak for warlock in 5e? i hear bladelock isn't very good?

>> No.52110485

It's pretty good but any DM worth their weight in salt will have the enemies:

>Hold action until something appears from the dome, then fire on reaction.

10 elfs firing at your head and arm as it leaves the dome are gonna hurt.

Plus if the siege fails, you are gonna have enemies all waiting around the dome for you to come out. High level magic like dimension door teleportation circle or teleport can get you out, but that's high level magic and enemy magic users should be present if you are doing that shit.

>> No.52110505

Pact of the Blade Warlock simply doesn't have the defenses a martial does and may do damage but gets tanked easily. Unearthed Arcana archetype hexblade makes it competent.

Warlocks are reliant on short tests but their are strong, albeit simple, relative to other full casters.

>> No.52110522

Obviously the image is a joke but people who believe in Pro-life don't consider sperm a human. Only when the sperm fertilizes an egg is it considered a human. So really its a no-brainer. But also the 3 week old fetus can't survive without a mother, don't believe it can survive at that age without life support either. So its already day.

>> No.52110523


Generally speaking, the later the season the better they are. I'd recommend Curse of Strahd, personally. Dark and spooky gothic world, a legendary D&D foe, small and dense setting... it's a great game with several powerful magic items for the players to enjoy.

>> No.52110528

Just failed a check to steal a poition so I kept walking and keep the movement going to slick back my hair and shoot finger pistols at the guy I was trying to rob. He was preplexed by this so I got away

>> No.52110546


Bladelock isn't terrible, it's just that without some lucky itemization or reaching very high levels they aren't as powerful as the other martials. They are, however, overall fine especially with Volo's races which help mitigate some of their weaknesses depending on which race you choose.

A yuan-ti fiendpact tomelock is probably up there as one of the more powerful lock builds.

>> No.52110555

UA stuff varies wildly in balance - it's how you get things like str-save Hold Person and nuclear druid.

Core content? Casters are slightly above martials in power level, but much less so than 3.5. Classes to avoid are beastmaster ranger and Wot4E monk. Bladelocks require some system mastery to work with but are viable (hint: use your spell slots for non-ac defenses.)

>> No.52110584

Pretty much what this guy says, though I believe the slight caster advantage depends on the DM and your ability for utility spells.

Every option is fine except Beastmaster and Wot4E

>> No.52110634

Can I get some opinions on a feat idea? It's probably shitty but whatever.

Minor Pact: You have forged a contract with a lesser eldritch being.
-You gain +1 Charisma.
-You gain a Warlock Invocation. Use your character level for your Warlock level. If the invocation requires you to expend Warlock spell slots, you may expend any spell slot to use it.

>> No.52110692


You might want to balance any invocations that expend Warlock spell slots with any spell slot with an equivalent spell slot level equal to or greater than the invocation's effect.

Or am I worrying about balancing this aspect too much?

>> No.52110722

You gotta change the level of spell slot you use for it. Certain invocations wouldnlet you cast high level spells with a first level spell slot.

+1 Charisma and an Invocation that does not have prerequisites for Warlock Level or features.

Seems pretty strong but fair then. Beguiling influence makes it a slightly weaker skilled feat. Eldritch Blast Invocations need the cantrip which can be taken with magic initiate. Warlocks gaining one addition invocation wouldn't be that bad.

Strong but not OP. Consider making it just an invocation and it would fit right in.

>> No.52110728

I was holding concentration on a spell and then cast Suggestion on an enemy, who was immune to charm and the spell failed.

Did I lose my original concentration spell or not? Suggestion requires concentration but the spell never really happened as the target was immune. But I did try and I did spend the spell slot.

>> No.52110751

You cast a spell that is concentration so the concentration drops, it's a risk but it means you just have to think about it in the future.

>> No.52110756

You lose concentration the moment you cast another spell that requires concentration, regardless of if you maintain that concentration or not.

However, I'd personally allow you to keep concentration on the previous spell if your casting failed.

>> No.52110775

Pretty much all of the feats that expend spell slots are also once per long rest. I don't think a once per day confusion would break much, but it's still a good call.

Cool. I kinda want to keep the +1 cha since that seems to be a theme with most other feats, makes giving up an ASI not quite as painful.

So reworking it would be something like this:
-You gain +1 Charisma.
-You gain a Warlock Invocation. Use your character level for your Warlock level. If the invocation requires you to expend Warlock spell slots, you must expend a spell slot of equal or higher level to use it.

>> No.52110879

Seems pretty fair to me. Don't add anything else to it and it's good from here. Disguise self at will is strong on its own for rogues or bards.

>> No.52110890

Okay thanks.

Another question, a monster is grappling (biting) a friend, if I cast wall of force to trap the monster in a dome, can I separate them and end the grapple?
Wall of Force says you choose which side of the wall to push each creature if you cast it on top of them, and the grapple status (PH.290) says grappling ends if the creature is out of reach, such as being pushed away by a spell.

But my DM said I couldn't separate them and if I chose which side of the wall the monster would be at, the player being bitten would be on that side as well.

>> No.52110964

There's no such thing as Warlock Spell Slots, or Paladin Spell Slots. It's superfluous how the book puts a class name on it. You'd have to create a new classification like "Spell Slot granted by the Pact Magic feature".

>> No.52110986

Rules as Written the monster would have let go of the being, as only it is being pushed not him, but DMs rule is law and blah blah blah if you want the rules such and such way DM yourself blah blah blah.

>> No.52111050

maybe just stipulate that you have to expend a slot high enough to actually cast whatever spell you're duplicating?

Not that anyone would take those anyhow. They'll go for the at-will stuff.

>> No.52111123

Crusader should be oath of conquest

>> No.52111127

I'm sure this has come up before but has anyone thought up a way to homebrew The Outsider as a Patron?

>> No.52111132

>Standing by a railroad watching a baby get run over despite having plenty of time to save it isn't evil
Philosophically, it's actually pretty hard to draw a distinct line between action and inaction. Both are decisions.

>> No.52111160

>mfw with this feat an oathbreaker can get double CHA to his attack damage and only needs to three dip warlock, a class that's already a great multiclass with paladin

not broken but it's definitely on the more powerful side of feats.

>> No.52111164

Forced movement breaks a grapple.

Still, as other anon said, I can't blame a DM for saying 'Well, normally a grapple is broken, but this isn't a hard push like thunderwave, their grappling is too dynamic to reliably wall and it affects both ofthem. As such, if you want to try, you can cast it and make a plain int check DC 15 to try to seperate them, but if you fail you'll cast it to either one side of them.'

>> No.52111224

The cosmic arbiter of Good and Evil doesn't really care about philosophy. That's why it's OBJECTIVE morality.

>> No.52111226

Basically a more directly involved old one patron based on fluff. The abilities are gonna have to be approximated with spell selection.

See it's things like this that make me post my shitty homebrews here. I didn't know oathbreakers got cha to damage.

>> No.52111245

Just make him a great old one.

The DMG states that powerful enough warlocks can become patrons for new ones.
I don't remember too much about the outsider but for in-game fluff you could say he used to be a warlock himself but is just now strong enough to grant powers.

>> No.52111267

>You don't perform any Evil by letting this lich run around and destroy a kingdom
Why is killing innocents to stop evil Evil, but letting innocents die by inaction not? At the end of the day, you're still making a conscious decision to say "I am okay with these innocents dying". And arguably, it's better to say "I am okay with these innocents dying, so that evil can be stopped" than "I am okay with these innocents dying, so that I don't have to cause innocent deaths directly".
>If your concern is your immortal soul, you let the lich get away with it.
Isn't it selfish to be more concerned with the fate of your immortal soul than with the fate of the world as a whole?

>> No.52111275

I don't think anyone cares what cthulu thinks alignment is.

I think people care what humanoids think alignment is, and they think 'evil is being selfish' and 'good is being selfless'.

Otherwise, we get into bacon necktie morality again where the cosmos sees jumping three times within five seconds as absolutely evil (necktie) but throwing stones at a buddha statue as good (bacon)

>> No.52111308

Hey /5eg/, I got a question that your probably hear all the time, but any advice for a new DM?

I played a few times, so I have a rpugh idea of what to do, but I'm running an original campaign in my own tweaked setting, so I'm a little nervous.

>> No.52111381

Yeah Old One seemed like a good jumping off point, Outsider mostly hands out marks out of sheer boredom and apathy.
The trickiest part would be the movement abilities . Blink is obviously NotDimension Door but it needs to be borderline cantrip-tier spammable.

>> No.52111383

Don't prepare everything that you want to have happen in any given session. You can have ideas, and backlogs for an emergency, but if you're putting yourself on a script only you know then you'll get flustered when the players decide they want to leave town instead of attend the festival you've spent all week planning.

Basically don't plan some kind of jail break scenario when the players get caught smuggling their baby dragon. You know that they COULD go to jail, but players often resist the railroad.

>> No.52111384

We're talking about alignment, though. We're talking about whether an action makes you more Evil or more Good. Literally all that matters in this situation is what "Cthulhu" thinks.

If you're worried about what humanoids' opinion on morality is, there is zero point to ever bringing alignment into the discussion. These are not numbers they can see or do things with.

Mortal civilization deals with an extremely subjective morality.
Cosmic arbiters and far more knowledgeable planar beings deal with alignment and an objective morality.

Again, your fucking band of peasant warriors is free to believe that doing X bad thing is "good" because of some Greater Good nonsense, but they're wrong. Fortunately for them, the only one who's going to tell them that are the fucking angels and devils they will never meet. except they should, because you're playing FR and devils pop in for tea literally every week

>> No.52111412

Forgotten Realms has the most retarded cosmology and nothing will ever convince me otherwise.
Mast of the Betrayer should have let you destroy the wall.

>> No.52111420


Otherwise you could go with Hex -> Bestow Curse and the DM's big bads would be fucked.

>> No.52111441

Don't over homebrew things. Don't hand out a lot of +AC items, and don't put massive +damage on hit bonuses on weapons if you give those out.

It's better to give fun utility magic items than 'wow, you get a direct upgrade to your stats' magical items.

Read the damn PHB and understand it better than your players.

Don't overplan. Do plan, and get things like names of areas and key locations and maps done, but keep lots of room where you know you can confidently improvize instead. It's bad to think 'Oh, no, I can't introduce this or let the players do this because that would completely alter my plans ahead' and it's instead better to say 'Yes' to ideas, unless they're downright stupid, or to at least let people try things.

A single lone monster is much weaker than a group of monsters.

Let players have their moments, even if it's not all the time. The barbarian who likes intimidating should actually get to intimdate things sometimes, not 'My super edgy original character sneers at your intimidation because he's 10 levels above you, ho ho'

Personally I like the idea that a lot of NPCs aren't super strong, but since they're in a society the real threat is that they'll call the police or other authorities or back-up and beat you that way, rather than using overpowered abilities to kill everyone.

5e combats need spicing up to be interesting. Make sure to populate areas with furniture and such that could potentially get used in a fight.

>> No.52111466


It won't feel like your standard gaming sessions with a GM, but more like an RPG MUD.

>> No.52111481

The Wall is dumb but the rest of it's okay. It's not like objective morality works any differently elsewhere. That's the whole point of it--it's fucking objective. FR doesn't even have a specific entity named for who the hell decided what's "Good" and "Evil", unless it's Ao.

>> No.52111522

Well, if the Forgotten Realms wants to support bacon-necktie alignment, that's fine. Even if it's the main 5e module, the way 5e is set out is much more suited for evil people being selfish and good people being selfless and things we as humans would call evil actually being evil. There's no proper 'detect evil' - Detect evil here simply identifies the planar beings associatied with these odd alignments.

But, I don't know, isn't FR the one where you actually have to have the god let you into their realm when you die? I'd expect gods to have the sense to say 'Actually, compared to what would have happened if you did nothing, you didn't kill anyone and you saved everybody and you did it for reasons of helping everybody out, so I'll let you into my own lawful good sect'
Fuck whatever Bahamut says. That prancing faggot. I'm sure the dwarf gods would be better.

>> No.52111592

Is there a 5e equivalent to the Pathfinder spell Summon Swarm?

>> No.52111595

Oh, and on that last point, 'need spicing up to be interesting'
I don't mean 'I pick up the table and smash enemies with it instead of the axe' is supposed to be viable.

The environment gives many things - places to hide, cover, ways to improvise difficult terrain, emergency weapons if you lose yours, places to pin an enemy to, hidden treasure, hints toward plot points, a simple way to add depth and scenery and sometimes it might even come subject to spells like 'animate objects'. Or maybe the players will make a bonfire out of it in a time of need.
Don't expect it to get used all the time and don't put tonnes of effort into it until they want to examine it in detail, and that's when you can improvize unless it was already important and you intended to draw their attention to it or something.

Otherwise, combats might turn into 'I walk up to monster, attack. He attacks. I attack.'
Also, have monsters behave like their int/wis/cha score. A really unwise monster might stay in a hopeless fight and fight to the death, less courageous or more wise foes might try to run or such.

Also players don't tend to die much unless you make monsters actually walk up and stab downed players. But that's kind of dickish.

>> No.52111605

This wouldn't work cause you need the pact of the Blade feature for it.

>> No.52111619

Gods generally try to snag the souls of anyone who was even moderately faithful to them in life. You don't necessarily have to have aligned with them wholly; someone can worship Ilmater and still be an Evil douche, for example. Souls can also get snatched up by the planes themselves if the soul was particularly well-aligned with them.

Basically, you've got to be a real tit to wind up in the Wall. Not cool enough for planar reincarnation, not sensible enough to realize that the Gods that are everywhere and constantly doing shit are real and can give you eternal life and shit. Like, Jesus stops time, descends from the clouds on a golden chariot, cures you of all your ills, tells you that bad shit in the Bible and what went on in the world was really Satan's doing, and you kick him in the balls and spit on him anyway.

>> No.52111633

Insect Plague?

>> No.52111684

thats why i said after a three level dip in warlock. learn to read

>> No.52111727

Like where, for example?

Regardless, "objective morality" is just a synonym for "someone said so and we're using the words 'good' and 'evil' for his system." It may be objective but that doesn't make it moral.

>> No.52111759

*blocks your path*

>> No.52111770

>telling the guy who runs the universe what morality REALLY is
Man, Gods probably sit around and shoot the shit with each other all day about these fucking mortals and their coked-out ideas on how things must be.

>> No.52111813

If good is literally 'not killing people even when necessary' and evil is 'killing people' then the gods have really, really not put any thought at all into it on any basis, unless they view the world like some sort of laser tag game where only direct kills matter.

It honestly only drives me to think D&D would be better without gods.

>> No.52111833

Could I substitute rats for insects? Trying to brainstorm a spell list for >>52111127

In particular I need
>summon a swarm of rats
>brief mind control
>a mesmerizing illusion
>a 'Windblast' that would let you Shove enemies from a short distance and break things like wooden doors
>'Domino', let's you mark 2 nearby humanoids and forcibly 'link their fate' (kill/incapacitate one, same happens to the other)

>> No.52111846

>If good is literally 'not killing people even when necessary' and evil is 'killing people'
Fortunately, it's not. Also, the Gods aren't the ones who implemented this. Gods are fucking small-time.

>> No.52111851

Playing a revised ranger beast master.
Doesn't seem bad, don't know what the big deal is.

>> No.52111861


>Don't see the big deal
>playing the REVISED ranger

Yea, try playing the vanilla PHB one.

>> No.52111875

>Morals (n.)
>standards of behavior or beliefs concerning what is and is not acceptable to do

When the universe itself is set up in such a way that there is a system of objective Good and Evil, and consequences for engaging in actions aligned to those objective positions, then it stands to follow that there is indeed an objective morality to the universe, regardless of the moral compass of any particular societies.

The complaint about beast masters has only ever applied to the PHB version. The Revised ranger is rather good, though it needs some fine tuning before it gets officially published.

>> No.52111895

Then what even is the point? What does it measure? What does it even mean?

Do you get cosmological brownie points and that's it?

Why not just replace it with a metaphysical currency? How about dogecoin?

>> No.52111902

You should just play Mystara, where all the gods are previously mortal creatures who attained immortality and run around manipulating every mortal into participating in their grand soap opera.

It works like this:
1) become so rad that you achieve Immortality, somehow
2) get thrown into one of five Spheres with other Immortals, based on weird non-elements like Matter and Time
3) forge alliances within your Sphere and also outside of it based on your personality and what shit you got up to in mortal life
4) incarnate yourself as a super-powerful mortal and try to raise an army of not-divine-but-certainly-genetically-superior children by fucking all the mortals
5) gain followers under your full Immortal guise and send your Clerics and worshippers around to fuck with those of the other Immortals
6) manipulate non-worshippers into fucking over the machinations of the Immortals of other spheres and also retrieving ancient artifacts that power up your Sphere
7) get fucked by a spaceship
8) no seriously there's a spaceship

>> No.52111963

You may as well ask why the gravitational constant is what it is, or why the physics surrounding atoms are such that carbon does this and helium does that. It doesn't matter what the reason was (if any) at the beginning, but now that it is there, mucking around with that can only change things.

Obviously the forces of Evil would very much like Evil to become the dominant power in the spherespace and Good would like the opposite. Like, okay, killing all those babies and stealing all that shit and helping out Orcus for amazing magical power was great, but now He and His forces are risen and demons stalk the realm, devouring the innocent and regurgitating them as skeletal minions whose only impetus is to shed blood so that it may coat the world and freeze beneath the sunless sky and make a planet-sized skating rink for the Dark One. I mean, good job, real aces there. What's the point of Good and Evil indeed.

>> No.52112037

What level are you looking at senpai.

>> No.52112057

How would I remake the sentinel druid in 5e?

>> No.52112059

Just because they're in charge doesn't make them fair rulers. Mao Zedong was in charge once. Doesn't mean his rules were ethical.

Perhaps, but there's nothing that makes it morally superior to the standards of my home village. Just because rules have consequences doesn't make them right; it makes them laws. Laws can be unjust.

>> No.52112084

>there's nothing that makes it morally superior to the standards of my home village
Have you considered that your mortal, dirt-tilling ass knows less about the nature of reality than timeless beings who exist within multiple dimensions simultaneously and aware of everything within a hundred feet of you any time you say their name?

>> No.52112100

Well then you might as well start complaining that gravity and electromagnetism are unjust.

>> No.52112144

Just because gravity is currently rooting me to the ground doesn't mean that it's correct or the way things ought to be. I can jump and cast Levitate and Fly so clearly there's another way. #iftheplaneofaircandoit

>> No.52112157

The gravitational constant is just a number.

It's not an entire philosophy of 'If a living (What is it to live?) creature (What is a creature?) were to kill (What is it to kill?) another creature (What is another creature?) then that is evil.'
And if you want to put that on the same level as a number, you have to keep refining the concept of what a creature is down to the point where it has numbers beyond even DNA can encode. And eventually you realize this isn't just a number, but a concept clearly an intelligent humanoid has thought up, because if it was something completely otherworldly there's no reason for their involvement.

I guess the best explanation is there's some sort of corruption and hallow, and it infects people and drives them to do things typical of Evil (corruption) or Good (hallow) and doing these aligns you more to one of the types of corruption and all that, but when you think about it, corruption would just be like corrupting a file. It just ends up as gibberish numbers.

That's all cool up until number seven where we need to initiate the X-COM project.

>> No.52112183

You can just hide from the spaceship inside the Hollow Earth, which is also a thing in Mystara. it's got dinosaurs
one of the dinosaurs is one of the aforementioned Immortals

>> No.52112232

I haven't watched it, but I feel as if this is a reference.
Pierce the heavens, yadda yadda.

>> No.52112321

Are there any monk players here? What has it been like for you? I'm quietly considering an open hand monk.

>> No.52112394

Yeah, it'll work great until it gets hit with Dispel Magic.

>> No.52112420

I rate monks d8/10

>> No.52112428

I've seen a lot of other people play monks, though I haven't done one myself.

Just the standard on the mechanical standpoint -
Remember stunning fist is your key feature.
Attributes are important, don't skimp.
You're not a conventional tank. Mobile grants extra survivability.
Open palm is somewhat supportive. Grapplse and shoves and more shoves and more shoves.

Monks are the easiest class to fuck up on.

Flavourwise? Generally people seem to like it. I'll admit they don't get to use cool magical powers or supernatural abilities much, but they... At least get to run all over the place and talk all monkishly, for what that's worth.
Nobody ever manages to play an actually wise monk, however.

>> No.52112442

No, I was saying people call them murderhobos because killvagrants sounds much less interesting.

>> No.52112443


I played a monk through all of Curse of Strahd. I played open hand, would have preferred Shadow simply because Open Hand gets their best features at 3rd and 18th levels while Shadow gets something cool every time they get a new archetype feature. I also had mobility so that colors my opinion.

Monks are, overall, pretty rad. Stunning strike feels great and is incredibly powerful, you get all kinds of cool and wacky powers that have no limitations (like running up walls) and you get to throw endless barrages of strikes. I really, really liked mobility on my open hand monk as it turned my character into a super fast hit and run machine which felt very monk like.

>> No.52112456

lots of extra cold spells in the Elemental Evil Companion's Guide

>> No.52112510

5e doesn't use objective morality. 2e doesn't use objective morality. 1e doesn't use objective morality. 4e only barely uses it (specifically: the Chaotic Evil alignment has objective qualities and stems from the shard of evil placed that is the heart of the Abyss)

I dunno why people keep referencing a defunct 3e concept in 5e threads, its of no relevance.

>> No.52112523

You can always use the G R R Martin method for """originality"""
Take a reasonably traditional sounding name and make marginal changes to it, like it were copyrighted and you were producing a knockoff
Geoffery = Joffrey, etc

>> No.52112526


Chromatic Orb, Cone of Cold, Sleet Storm, the Elemetnal Evil stuff. Honestly I'd just ask your DM if you can replace the fire damage of stuff like scorching ray with cold damage. It won't break the game at all (Cold is the 3rd most resisted damage type) and will be very flavorful for you.

>> No.52112547

How does 2E not have objective morality when the outer planes exist? Since one goes to the plane of their alignment when they die, there must be an objective criteria for determining who goes where.

>> No.52112560

Ice knife, fantastic to twin.

>> No.52112570

Where do you guys go for some quick campaign ideas? I forgot to create one for my group for tomorrow and I need something with haste.

>> No.52112630

Newly formed party travels to a remote island to participate in a grand scavenger hunt. The winner of the scavenger hunt is awarded ownership over a castle on the mainland. The party returns to the mainland to find that said castle is in disrepair and overrun by goblins. Furthermore, the castle and the land it governs is wedged right between human and elf kingdoms who have frequently traded the land back and forth over the course of several hundred years of war. It turns out the lord giving out the castle was desperate to get rid of it in the first place.

>> No.52112634

So Lore Wizard casts fly, goes a mile in the air and casts a cone spell extended to a mile straight down. Did he just carpet bomb an entire mile radius?

>> No.52112635

It's not setting-dependent, it's Forgotten Realms. Since FR is the default setting in 5e, it's relevant.
It's still retarded, but it's relevant.

>> No.52112649

Strength gives HP as well as Constitution.

>> No.52112652

Don't cone spells have a range of self.

>> No.52112659

No, he just dropped a cone of cold a mile down. That's it.

Range =/= area of effect.

>> No.52112664

True. I'm retarded.

>> No.52112675

>twinning Ice Knife
How many times do we need to have this conversation?

>> No.52112685

>How does 2E not have objective morality when the outer planes exist?

2e is the edition that introduced the idea that good has no absolute values, and the outer planes were created for a cosmology in which good and evil were subjective anyway.

>> No.52112691

Carry capacity is more than enough rather than just making a second con stat that everybody avoids dumping.

If you do carry capacity right, it won't be obnoxious but it'll also make people considerate of what items they have.

>> No.52112692

RAW it works but they did say somewhere it's not meant to.

>> No.52112752


>Since FR is the default setting in 5e

It isn't. The FR cosmology doesn't get so much as a mention in core. Nor are there any elements in FR that reference alignment/morality being different even if they were.

>> No.52112776

I was unhappy the first and only time I played one in 5e. I have always had a love affair with monk despite their shittyness in older edition so I was hoping for a good experience in 5e. But to be completely honest I rolled like garbage for stats with 14 being my highest after racial mods. Plus the DM ran a slightly lethal game and everything seemed to constantly save out of my stun. I also feel you never have enough ki especially early on.

>> No.52112778

yeah we just put every adventure except curse of strahd in forgotten realms
but it's not the default setting or anything


>> No.52112818

>the outer planes were created for a cosmology in which good and evil were subjective
>planes full of angels and demons are for a subjective morality

>> No.52112828

>People actually playing adventures at all in 5e
>Not just homebrewing up shitholes where rivers flow up mountains and oil costs 8000gp a barrel
>Implying the PHB is going to mention a lot of world-specific things when 5e is supposed to be less strict of a system

>> No.52112838

"Hollow earth" is a long-standing fantasy device, from back in the days when sci-fi and fantasy were one and the same.

>> No.52112853

weird that the "default" cosmology isn't mentioned anywhere in core, huh?

>> No.52112858

>Implying the PHB is going to mention a lot of world-specific things when 5e is supposed to be less strict of a system
Maybe it fucking should, because we get people in here every other day asking who the fuck their Cleric should worship and how one goes about doing that because the books give Z E R O fucking information about them aside from their name, domain, and symbol.

>> No.52112870

Read the DMG.

>> No.52112896

Don't know.
Hypnotic Pattern.
Gust of wind?
And broken as fuck, mark Blackadder the BBEG and Baldric the turd farmer you brought with you.
And explotation aside it turns a fight with two guys to a fight with one, if it maybe had a long spellcast the closes I can think of is Geas?

>> No.52112903


>> No.52112936

>sci-fi and fantasy were one and the same.
Not exactly. Fantasy was usually also sci-fi, but there was lots of sci-fi that wasn't fantasy.

>> No.52112941

I mean, you can like or dislike it, but Gary Gygax, the one who added most of the kinds of celestials (not counting unicorns etc., all celestials added in during 1e were added by Gygax in MM2), as well as the NE daemons himself, and who added good and evil to the alignment system at all, was the one who explained it was subjective in the article introducing good and evil to the alignment system. So... yeah.

>> No.52112957

Not only is that wrong, but you don't seem to understand what "default" means.

>> No.52112964

That was sarcasm, retard. Of course the default cosmology in 5e is mentioned, and its not FR.

>> No.52112982

ATTN: theorycrafters

How would you go about fleshing out a Bladelock with three levels in rogue for Arcane Trickster?

>> No.52113000

I know, but it's with reference to aliens as well. Otherwise it'd just be the classic.

But I don't even know if the reference is about alien problems. Might as well be.

>> No.52113003

"Default" =/= "Enforced"

>I was merely pretending

>> No.52113010

When you don't understand a post, follow the reply chain.

>> No.52113018

5 levels of bladelock, rest of levels in rogue

Or, if you REALLY want more warlock and expect level ~14+ play, you could go 12 levels warlock + 8 levels rogue, but you might as well just be a full warlock at that point for level 9 spells.

>> No.52113051

No, the alien problems were long ago and they mostly bred into the human population or started magical frog cults.

The real spaceship problem was oops we nuked the surface, but that got resolved, but then it became oops our radioactive security dish is eating magic and threatening to unravel the world.

>> No.52113055

Are you inbred? The DMG talks about what the default cosmology is.

>> No.52113097

For a char who may spend a lot of time solo, is 3 rogue and the rest in hunter ranger a bad idea?

>> No.52113131

Swashbuckler is the only viable solo rogue. And even then the first 2 levels would be suffering.

>> No.52113203

You want
A) Stealth
B) Utility and Escape
C) Fucktonnes of Burst
D) If possible, an anti-save

You need either lucky or portent.

Rogue isn't a bad idea, but you'll probably want to be an assassin (Grant self advantage and crit sneak attack, then fucking run, probably use hand crossbow) or swashbuckler (Easy fleeing/kiting and easy sneak attacks and such) or, if you really know what you're doing, AT is actually probably still a better option than swashbuckler unlike what >>52113131 says. You have a familiar that can check things for you, mage hand that can check things for you, all rogues can hide as a bonus action for advantage and a familiar can grant you advantage without you even using an action.

>> No.52113262

Actually, take it one step further.

Dex barbarogue.

Good str, dex and con saves. Get lucky feat. Grab a shield, grab a rapier. Be tough. Be fast. Be sneaky. Consider swashbuckler/assassin/arcane trickster again, but consider bear barbarian for your barbarian choice.

Fuck things up.

It takes a while before it really sets into motion, though, so I wouldn't entirely recommend it unless you start with a good number of levels.

>> No.52113286

Swashbuckler is the best way to consistently get sneak attacks alone. Familiars are liable to die at any given moment if they're close enough to help you.
Without sneak attack you're basically a sitting duck in combat, which let's face it, is always the most important thing to be good at in D&D.

>> No.52113407

It's very easy to get sneak attack.

Barbarogue has reckless attack that can always grant them sneak attack if needed. But that's 5 levels of barbarian.
Familiars... If you had warlock levels, you could just hover a hidden, invisible familiar next to an enemy doing nothing and get advantage. Or if that doesn't work, it's not like an invisible familiar granting advantage through help gives their position away. But that's 5 levels of warlock.

Assassin's deal is that they don't NEED reliable sneak. They shoot once, murder the fuck out of the target then get the heck out of there.

AT's deal is eventually they have mage hand to grant theirself advantage, they have spells that can potentially grant themself advantage and they can always get a familiar considering they'll be going against a lot less encounters in a day and have plenty of time to re-summon an owl.

Swashbuckler is definitely a solid pick as it has kiting, easy sneaks and better initiative which are all great, but if you know what you're doing it's not essential.

I'd say swashbuckler is a definite pick if you don't know 5e very well and want to go solo. Even solo however, other choices are probably better if you know what you're doing.

>> No.52113448

Oh, forgot to mention hiding a second time and barbarogues (or, heck, anyone with extra attack) shoving enemies prone.

Can also take levels of fighter for extra attack + the battlemaster thing that grants advantage. Or samurai.

>> No.52113500

2 levels of barb or warlock, not 5.

>> No.52113541

Actually, paladin.

>Great sustained damage
>MASSIVE burst damage, rest a lot
>Good AC, 1d10 hitdie
>Multiclass potential into bard, warlock and sorcerer or maybe even rogue or this or that or all sorts of things
>Great saves, possible immunity to charm/fear
>Spells for utility
>Action super-second-wind if needed
>Everybody loves you, get all the bitches
>But probably too busy to fuck them

Your main issue however is you're not very stealthy and probably slow, so you need some sort of GTFO button.

>> No.52113557

You take 5 levels for extra attack, which helps a lot.

>> No.52113607

Oath of Treachery really helps the mobility issue, especially when you're getting your Sauron-mob-smashing on and suddenly take a big hit.

>> No.52113721

>Lore Bard 3/ Gunsmith Artificer 3
>16 Dex, 20 Cha, 14 Int
How shit is my multiclass?

>> No.52113745

Not seeing the synergy, also
>rolled stats

>> No.52113750

>20 cha with no ASIs
Super shit.


And, I mean, I really don't get what you're trying to achieve mechanically. Hoping for quick quiver or something somehow?

>> No.52114218

I'm thinking of making a Necromancer. Thoughts?

>Lore Bard
>Magical Secrets- Animate Dead, Aura of Vitality

>Going to be a clearly foreign person, perhaps even someone who's civilization was once kings and shit
>The desert oasis their empire was built on dried up, turning the region into Dark Sun-lite where the people needed to become extremely careful not to waste resources of any kind, leading to Necromancy becoming less taboo by necessity since skeletons are laborers that can work in desert heat without water or risk of heat stroke
>Rather than pure necromatic energy they're animated by "spirits" or some other mumbo-jumbo (If the DM allows it anyway) so while they're still likely to go berserk once you lose control they're more likely to cause mischief and shit instead of just going full "kill all humans"

>Character themselves is a "spirit talker" or some other title that's come to generic not-Europe hunting magic secrets to bring back home for family and national honor in an attempt to restore the Oasis they lived in, like a black version of that guy from Full Metal Alchemist.

Thing is I'm not sure if I want to go Lore Bard as a way to clearly differentiate their magic style from Wizards or go Wizard refluffed since Necromancy school is, unsurprisingly, the best way to go about getting skeletons.

>> No.52114300

>classical Negromancer
Do it m8

>> No.52114312

Well, necromancer is way better and that's a big hit to tank as a negotiating chip in making your skeletons more CN than LE.

>> No.52114338

It could work. Instead of instruments/signing you could do short chants in honor of the deceased. And you could refluff Bardic Inspiration as a spirit coming to aid an ally with a task.

>> No.52114372

>Animate dead but it's fey instead of evil stuff

Eeeeeeeeeeeeeh. Sure, if it's a bard. Animate dead is kind of powerful, but since it's not on a necromancer wizard it's probably fine since the summoned things are weaker.

But usually the fact you're summoning hordes of evil fucks is one of the main detriments to one of the strongest things you can do in the game.

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