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52056114 No.52056114 [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

When a space marine joins the Deathwatch, do they stay with the Deathwatch permanently, or can they be reassigned back to their Chapter of origin?

>> No.52056165

>>52056114
Death Watch army player here.

Death Watch Marines are 'acquired' from the various chapters via the Ordo Xenos to go on 'the long vigil'. This is a set time in which the Marine will be a Death Watch member. Once the vigil is over and the Marine isn't dead, he is allowed to return to his chapter of origin, never to speak of his missions during his time in the Deathwatch with anyone within his own chapter. He is allowed to keep wearing his Deathwatch pauldron because he's badass enough to not only join the Deathwatch, he's badass enough to return as a Marine rather than 2 pieces of Geneseed.

>> No.52056196
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52056196

>>52056114
So in closing: If you have a Spehs Muhreen army, feel free to add that one Veteran with a Death Watch shoulder pad to make him look absolutely badass. (Try to trade for one from a Death Watch player if you don't intend to buy the upgrade pack)

>> No.52056226

>>52056196
the old command squad sprues had a single deathwatch shoulder pad

>> No.52056266

>>52056165
>via the ordo xenos
Apparently that's no longer the case. New fluff says they're not related to the ordo xenos, although the two groups obviously cooperate frequently.

Of course this new fluff doesn't explain why they're covered in inquisition symbols. gj GW

>> No.52056276

>>52056165
The usual length I've heard is 10 years. Occasionally one is 'asked' to stay in the Deathwatch until they die.

>> No.52056296
File: 45 KB, 498x558, Purges.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
52056296

>>52056226
Those are very old tho'.

I'd recommend just getting one of the new ones. They look damn fancy.

>>52056114
Also, forgot to mention: Space Marines are allowed to just say "Fuck you" to their old chapter and stick around in the Death Watch. Not many /do/ that, mostly due to them being kinda /dead/ when their Vigil is up, but they can if they so desire/think they're more useful sticking with DW.

>>52056266
The inquisition is still one to pick up Marines they fancy and go "You know who could use a big strong guy like you? This little chamber militant we got going."

They're separated due to the Marine Chapters not enjoying the idea of Purely inquisitorial Marines. As such they're controlled by Watch Master which is always a Marine. Though they still count as the chamber militant of Ordo Xenos.

>> No.52056376

>>52056296
>do you know who could use a big strong guy like you?
"uhh...."
>the Deathwatch
"oh thank god"

>> No.52056392
File: 1.54 MB, 320x180, Raging monarchy.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
52056392

>>52056376
Ahem...

Please rephrase that last thing you said.

>> No.52056477
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52056477

>>52056296

>allowed to say "fuck you"

>> No.52056490
File: 34 KB, 400x300, 1436106407044.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
52056490

>>52056477
"Of course, grand master... They are indeed Digga Nobz."

>> No.52056995

>>52056296
>I don't like working under some Inquisitor, I'm a proud brainwashed child soldier of a despotic regime
>what's that, Mr. Inquisitor?
>there's a group that's organized by the Inquisition
>supplied by the Inquisition
>works with the Inquisition
>recruits via the Inquisition
>but there's a Marine leading it (most likely answering to the Inquisition)
>where do I sign up?

>> No.52057323
File: 80 KB, 223x199, Raging loyalty.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
52057323

>>52056995
Well the Watch Masters are a bit more independent in their works. They're expected to extend their own webs of communications and allegiance, separate from their inquisitorial allies. This is what gives the chapters even a small form of trust between them and the Death Watch, as their 'brothers' are the ones giving commands.

It is true that the inquisition can 'ask kindly' (read: Demand) for Veterans from the chapters. Though this usually causes more distrust in the Death Watch and as such makes them be real bitchy about it. (Or, you know, send the asshole vets that they didn't like themselves.)

Chapters can also lose trust in the Death Watch and stop giving marines if the Watch Companies fail to retrieve and return geneseed of their fallen brethren.

>> No.52057333

>>52057323
>>52056995
I should also note that such refusal to send their valued veteran battle brothers to the alien slaughterhouse is almost always temporary, as a complete refusal is HERESY. ...Or, you know, being a bit too much of an ass if you let the Imperium get flooded with greenskins and Om-nom-bugs.

>> No.52057653

>>52056196
As a fellow death watchplayer, i give my stash of spare shoulder pads out freely, but when i witness another players marine perform exemplary in combat with the xeno menace.

I also do the same with the small deathwatch seals for guard players.

>> No.52057695
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52057695

>>52057653
I do tend to use my own small Death Watch Icons... Much to my Dismay as I constantly need more of them. (Like right now, I need one for my DW captain in Cataphracti Terminator armor.

Life is suffering... But at least I don't have to suffer the alien to live.

>> No.52057701

>>52057695
God-Emperor damn it... I'm back to excessive capitalization...

>> No.52057765

>>52057323
So the Inquisition uses their time and resources to equip and recruit a group they got no real control over? Thanks, Obama Sherlock Clousseau.

>> No.52057829
File: 38 KB, 318x472, 1436108049798.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
52057829

>>52057765
Well they're supplying the one force capable of tactically eliminating the greatest alien threats to humanity. The Death Watch are so damned indoctrinated in PURGE THE XENOS that the inquisition considers their lack of direct control a minuscule issue compared to having their assistance when doing their own investigations.

It's a middleman option that keeps the two sides complacent whilst everyone benefits from 'the shield that kills'.

>> No.52057892
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52057892

Most definitely recommend this book and the few short stories concerning Kill Team Talon.

One of the best 40k books I ever read, and and excellent font of information about the DW. Haven't read the new novels that were published around the new release though.

>> No.52057905

They do their service and then if they survive take the knowledge on how to kill xenos back to the chapter they come from. They may elect to do another term of service as they can become estranged from their chapter due to learning so much.

>> No.52058456

According to Goto marines that served in the deathwatch still kept the pauldron, or even the colours, when going back to their chapter, because they could be called back again.

>> No.52058522

Calato, Just saying.

>> No.52058552

>>52057892
What are the shorts? I remember reading a deathwatch one in a collection, are they the team where the inquisitor leads by radio and every marine has a codename?

>> No.52058576

How exactly do Blackshields make it to the Deathwatch in the first place? I can't imagine it's that easy for a random marine to obtain intergalactic transport.

>> No.52058626

>>52058576
Read: >They're fucking Space Marines.

It's not that hard to imagine that, if the marine manages to get out of dodge from his Chapter (Whom is now destroyed or treasonous or both), he probably knows how to get himself to a watch fortress.

>> No.52058637

>>52058576
Marines do tend to go around alone or in small groups all the time, it's just that it's not that big of a point in most of the fluff.

Think about all the sentries that travel to distant systems to keep guard over a relic or a monument of significance for the chapter; the ones that move to honour debts with rogue traders, the inquisition, navigator houses or other chapters; the ones that move around for other diplomatic reasons; and of course, the ones that go in exile. I don't think they have strike cruisers ferrying them over every time.

If anything, how could a marine NOT get some way of transport?

>> No.52058656

>>52058626
How? Does he just wander around whatever planet he's stuck on until he happens to find a chartist captain willing and able to fly him to the nearest watch station?

>> No.52058672

>>52058656
The first thing a marine learns in and out of the field is gathering intel

>> No.52058693
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52058693

>>52058656
See >>52058637 and >>52058672

Also, Marines aren't just soldiers through and through. Each has the mental abilities to figure out how to get off planet.

They might not have the technical know-how, but they sure as hell know how to find space ports and transport, and the 'where' is hardly an issue for a 7'+ guy in power armor.

>> No.52059197

Figured this was the relevant place to ask:

When fielding Deathwatch, would you guys recommend CAD or their unique formations? ObSec seems like too much to throw away for the minor benefits of the formations, but I do like the idea that I can mix things up more with the different varieties of Kill Team, too.

>> No.52059329
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52059329

>>52059197
Formations are small and can be useful for their rerolls if you feel you're shit at shooting. If you feel like getting ObSec, get yourself an allied detachment of something cheaper.

You /really/ don't want DW marines baby-sitting objectives. If you play them right, you should be punching enemies off objectives anyway.

>> No.52059372

>>52059329
I suppose that's valid, but really it's going to depend on what I'm fighting. I plan to magnetise pretty much every marine's arms because I can mix and match and make lists all day to plan for every given eventuality, which seems like a very Deathwatch thing to do.

I mean, I can't table everything I encounter, so sometimes I'll need ObSec to secure a win.

>> No.52059393

>>52059372
Forgot to add this little point, I've been looking at the Fire Raptor from Forgeworld and I'm pretty sure my club will let me use it. Would it be a good addition to a Deathwatch list? I figure it'll give me some much needed long range firepower.

>> No.52059423
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52059423

>>52059372
True. But again. ObSec is nice and all, but you will be forced to take at least two regular units of Veterans in transports to get them to the desired objectives. And an HQ to make it a CAD.

If you're planning to play ObSec + regular formations, you can't take a regular Allied detachment due to the "not 2 of the same army" restriction.

>>52059393
I do not know what the Fire Raptor does, so I cannot say. But it's Forgeworld, so it's probably good.

Point in case: The formations let you kill stuff with more ease, CAD's will give you the objectives but you're risking losing whole squads of expensive doods.

Don't forget that Death Watch Vets have the survival chances of regular marines, so they can get cut down with relative ease.

>> No.52059464

>>52059423
The main reason I'm thinking of making an ObSec list at all is because I play with a guy who runs pure knights, at basically every points level. And he runs them in tournaments. He's pretty good, and most of his losses are due to people sitting on objectives.

These are the rules for the Fire Raptor. I feel it's one of Forgeworld's more reasonable offerings, it's just a Storm Eagle with no transport capacity and more dakka:

https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/resources/fw_site/fw_pdfs/Warhammer_40000/Space_Marine_Fire_Raptor_Gunship.pdf

>> No.52059713
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52059713

>>52059464
Understandable, though you should note that getting ObSec with an allied CAD of DW will put you back at least 400~ Points, and you won't be adding much more to that since only the troops get ObSec.

I'd advice just taking Guard infantry platoons from an Allied Detachment, their minimum cost is 130 points for 3 units of 25 ObSec models + whatever commander you throw in with them.
Add a transport here and there and you can rush over the field and grab the objectives with those while your DW marines do all the killing and distract your enemy from killing the measly guard.

As for the Fire Raptor, a bit much for a gun-turret that comes in on turn 2 at the very least, I say.

>> No.52059857
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52059857

>>52059713
Also, more fun than just cheapo Guard is the less cheapo guard that can kill stuff hard.

The Warzone Damocles: Mont'Ka supplement for guard gives the Emperor's Blade Assault Company, which is 1 Company command + 3 Veteran squads, all in transport, with 1 - 3 hellhounds or hellhound related vehicles.

They get PE against any enemy within 6" of objectives and ObSec. Combine this with Plasma Vets (reroll Gets Hot! and to wound rolls of 1) and a Bane Wolf (Poison 2+ AP 3 flamer, so always rerolls to wound and ignores cover like a badass) You can kill anything on the objective and then take it from them, even if they're still alive.

Will cost a bunch more, tho'.

>> No.52059907

>>52059713
>>52059857
It's a lot to think about, but I'm happy to just scrap ObSec most of the time and frag his knights with a storm of Frag Launchers out of a drop pod. Shame there's no anti-LoW Killteam, that kind of sucks. As for the Fire Raptor I was mostly taking it to be fluffy and because I love the model, I like the idea that the Death Watch have these archaic toys lying around, and it would make sense for them to have mobile fire support on demand.

>> No.52059917

>>52059907
Frag Cannons, I mean. Those things.

>> No.52059977
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52059977

>>52059907
Reminds me of my friend, whom has every marine army, though styled like Grey Knights.

>"Brothers... How did you obtain those... giant wolves?"
>"We found them."
>"...Where?"
>"Oh, some ice planet. It's not important.

>Meanwhile on Fenris, the pens.
>"BY THE JARL! WHERE ARE THE WOLVES!?"

Also, my current idea for death-from-above is a kill team with 4 frag cannons + storm shield sargeant to tank wounds, 2 Terminators with Assault cannons or Cyclones, and a librarian with Divination for that sweet, sweet reroll to hit primaris. And maybe the 4++ invun artifact, since you're not moving that Libby much anyhow.

Pic related, me when those bastards drop in and shoot something expensive to shit.

Sadly, this formation is by itself also damn expensive.

>> No.52060088

>>52059977
Death Watch pay a fucking lot for how flexible they are sadly. But they are damn flexible.

>> No.52060180

>>52060088
Yep yep.

Though, come to think about it. That Emperor's Blade Assault Company would probably murder-fuck my formation to absolute shit. And still be cheaper.

Glass Cannons... Each and every single one of them.

>> No.52060181

>>52056114
>can they be reassigned back to their Chapter of origin
"Brother Sorcerus, are you really going back to your home chapter?"

"Yes, my friend. My time with the Deathwatch is over."

"But.. you're a black shield."

"Look, mate, I hate to break it to you, but this is all your fault. You had to go hire those hookers for my birthday, and now they're still finding bits of thousand sorcerer dust all over the carpet. Fuck it, I'm out of here."

>> No.52060221
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52060221

>>52060181
If that relates to the Thousand Sons, their Spehs Wizards are the ones that are /not/ dust.

>> No.52060274

>>52058552
Headhunted and Exhumed. That sounds like it indeed.

>> No.52060286

>>52060180
I get attached to my Deathwatch marines. It feels wrong somehow to put them back on the field after they've died in previous encounters because they're so personalised.

>> No.52060331
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52060331

>>52060286
Not what I meant.

Those Marines have 1 wound and only termies + 1 storm shield to protect them. The libby can tank 1 whole wound extra but has no shield otherwise.

If they stand too close to an objective, those Plasma vets + AP3 Poisoned 2+ template will just wipe them out.

>> No.52060354

>>52060331
>>52060286
Point in case: Those cool ass DW Marines will keep dying and dying and dying. As it's their fate and duty to do so.

>> No.52060391

>>52057333
Codex: Om-nom-bugs

>> No.52060758

>>52058693
Plus, most right thinking imperial citizens literally worship them. So it's not even like they'd have to pay in anything but a token way.

>> No.52060882

>>52057765
Personally, I think it's kinda dumb too. Older fluff was more explicit about the Chamber Militant serving the =I= directly, iirc. It wasn't so much that they could get the Marines to do whatever they wanted, but the Chamber Militant did have serving the Ordos as their primary job. Deathwatch might refuse to answer a particular call for aid because they don't have the men/think it's excessive/have good evidence the Inquisitor calling them is a heretic, but they were not completely independent and would get things like intel from the Inquisition.

>> No.52061026

>>52060882
Under the old lore, there was no refusal. Even a Watch Captain was still considered below the assigned Inquisitor. That is not the case anymore and instead it puts the Deathwatch on the same level as the Grey Knights in terms of independence.

>> No.52061411

Who's better at melee? DW or GK?

>> No.52061642

>>52061026
At least GK got made by the Emperor and probably have a mandate from him. Don't remember DW getting a slip of paper like that. Any rights they'd have would come from the Inquisition.

>> No.52061704

>>52061411
GK considering they get AP3 on /everyone/.

Not to mention hammer hand.

>> No.52062825

>>52061026
There was no old lore! They have ALWAYS been the Chamber Militant; they have ALWAYS had their own say over when to act, just like all marine chapters. They were ALWAYS the independent 'grey knights' fightan xenos.
And there's NOTHING special about them (unlike the grey k's with their aura of demon doom): they are just veterans who kill ayylmaos good.

Everything else you hear is lies.

>> No.52062881

>>52061642
Alien hunters have been around a lot longer than grey knights: gk's got made after big E died, but humans have been killing xenos since the Dark Age. Remember: the first duty of the Legions was the extermination of aliens threatening mankind. Blackshield groups (pretty obviously the precursors to the Deathwatch) were independently killing xenos throughout and after the Crusade. They predate the Inquisition.

>> No.52062941

>>52056165
>never to speak of his missions during his time in the Deathwatch with anyone within his own chapter.
What, they afraid the chapters are going to find out that Aliens exist?

>> No.52064165

Hey guys since youre talking deathwatch id like your advice. I recently bought the death masque set with a friend and i really want to build a dw army. What should i add next? (Im very new to the game btw)

>> No.52064320
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52064320

>>52062941
It's more about the damning secrets the Deathwatch hold and the Veterans see during their long vigil. The refusal to speak of what they experienced is one part oath, another part indoctrinated through hypnotherapy, which DW Marines undergo A LOT.

They do share knowledge on /how/ to eliminate alien threats. Not doing so would be incredibly dumb.

>>52064165
1. Go to your locan GW and have some introductory games before splurging your cash on models.
2. Lots of marines.
3. Lots of Drop Pods to put Marines (And your dreadnought) in.
4. Patience, Deathwatch is a harder army due to it's low model count and the reliance on mission tactics. Failing to understand the army will get you curb stomped.
5. A pathological hatred of any and all aliens that threaten humanity.

...That's about it. But really, learn the game, read the rule book (I assume you got one in Death Masque), and just play the game and have fun. Don't get frustrated if you're blown off the table the first few times, ask what you did wrong and how to improve.

...Oh, and, don't buy more than you're willing to paint. I learned that the hard way.

>> No.52064397

>>52062881
>people been killing aliens for ages
>ergo Deathwatch the organization has existed for ages under the direct mandate of the Emperor of Mankind and independent of the Inquisition

This is now the most grasping of straws I've seen.

>gk's got made after big E died

Emperor made their gene-seeds and approved of the people to herald the Grey Knights. Titan was hidden and GK were being trained when Terra was being besieged.

>> No.52064433
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52064433

>>52064320
Local*

Also, during those introductory battles, try to find out what play-style you like. Death Watch is an army that focuses on blunting the enemy before they can lay the hurt back down on you, so it'll often need you to play aggressive and push your opponent (not literally, unless if you're good friends) around the board to where you want him.

If you find that defensive play is better suited to you, /don't/ but a whole Deathwatch army. Keep it like 2 Kill teams (5 vets + specialists) and the Dread in transport as an allied army. This way you don't splurge on an army you don't like to play.

>>52064397
This guy knows what's up.

Deathwatch is post heresy. And was the brainchild of one of the first chapter masters after the second founding (I /think/ it was the imperial fists... Can't remember) But his powers over the 'chapter' were given to the Watch Masters because he was getting too powerful.

That's what I remember, at least. Could be totally wrong.

>> No.52064449

>>52064433
Don't buy* a whole Deathwatch army...

Emperor dammit...

>> No.52064463

>>52056114
From what I know, they can be sent back to theri chapter.

>> No.52064534
File: 51 KB, 300x189, Le heretic.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
52064534

>>52064463
Read the thread.

But thank you, based anon. As you clearly desire proper knowledge to be spread. So do continue with providing the information you are sure of.

...But, really. Please read the thread before replying to OP.

>> No.52064666

>>52060221
Their terminators used to be psykers, now they're also dust.

>> No.52064851

>>52064397
>>52064433
The confusion probably stems from Blackshields, who do originate during the heresy, and the fact that Malcador did start the inquisition at that time as well
(And used some blackshields when doing so)

>> No.52064961

>>52064433
>Deathwatch is post heresy. And was the brainchild of one of the first chapter masters after the second founding (I /think/ it was the imperial fists... Can't remember) But his powers over the 'chapter' were given to the Watch Masters because he was getting too powerful.

The Deathwatch was founded by Koorland (The last OG Imperial Fist) and Vangorich (The only competent High Lord) during WAAAGH! Beast, when it became obvious that charging head on to da orkz was not working.
The power to overseer them was given to the Inquisition, but the tactical decitions was given to the Watch Masters, who MUST be Space Marines.

>> No.52065005

>>52064851
They originated from the Heresy, yes. Though they also were chosen /prior/ to the siege on Tera.

So yes, GK are /just/ prior to the emperor's ascension, DW was probably a tad after.

>>52064666
Nahbro. A great majority of the Thousand Sons were psykers, very powerful ones at that. Though, yes, you needed to be of a particular level of psychic potential to become a Scarab Occult member (And as such gain the right to wear Terminator armor), that level was not sufficient to protect the marines from the Rubric of Ahriman.

Only the most powerful sorcerers in their ranks were spared the fate of having their souls bound to their armor. As such, the Scarab Occult that did not survive the ritual are now simply more advanced husks. They must be lead by a fellow sorcerer (usually a more prominent and powerful one) to battle, just like the rest of the Rubricae.

In addition, the TS often take in psykers they deem worthy to become their apprentices and servants, sometimes these are granted the chance to become Marines (and as such, true sorcerers.), these are often tasked with mobilizing the battle brothers, while the Exalted sorcerers take their place as commanders of the armies.

>>52064961
Thanks, based anon.

>> No.52067231

>>52056296
Yeah but the new ones have that doofy missing chunk.

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