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/tg/ - Traditional Games

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>> No.51377911

nth for Imperial Armor 14 news when?

>> No.51377924

Does anyone have the Chimera bridgelayer conversion that was on the Games Workshop website in the long long ago?

>> No.51377932

So yeah, any idea how to make the commander more Khorne-like?

>> No.51377947

Nth for bring back Knarlocs

>> No.51377955

Cultist head, chaos star freehand on trenchcoat, severed head on belt

>> No.51377963

first for Eldar are delicious~

>> No.51377969

>(DEAD) Freshest Rules in Epub
well fuck

>> No.51377972

Without looking at the picture: more spikes, more blood and gore

After looking at the picture: more red, more blood, more spikes, replace sword with an axe, make edgier in general.

>> No.51377974

Oh boy, sure cant wait to fuck this up. I think I`ll just do a mark of khorne, its easier.

>> No.51377976

Cut the aquilla off his chest for a start, add some crudely painted khornate symbols, maybe replace his pistol with another sword.

>> No.51377979

IA14 is either going to nerf the shit out of the 30k stuff, causing all the AdMech players to whine, or it will get printed in all its OP glory, meaning that nobody is going to play against it.

>> No.51377987

Building a Dark Biologis Admech army using the 30k rules, need some bio-bits. Getting a Nid Armoured Assault box for small bio-guns, crushing claws and some other stuff. What are the best Tyranid kits in terms of options and modularity and such? Would be nice to have a source of parts on hand to use when I think they'd look good, rather than having to plan everything out exactly. Also,, I need greenstuff and plasticard. Any good online stores to get that from the UK, or can I just Amazon it along with the magnets?

>> No.51377988

So how much would change for Orks if they're vehicles and walkers had a 12 inch movement by default?

>> No.51377991

Yes they are

>> No.51378005

So has anyone else run the Adeptus Astra Telepathica version of the Astropath? I ran one in a game the other night.

Holy SHIT.

>50 point ML2 psyker
>Divination AND Telepathy
>roll INVISIBILITY but decide not to lose a friend so I swap it for pic related
>Prescience for other power
>Turn 1
>channels prescience, twin links an entire battery of 5 lascannons
>dies to deep strike
>turn 2
>all 4 of my reserve units come in thanks to reroll
>opponent gets stomped by deepstriking scions on all sides
>we both agree not to proxy, this motherfucker deserves his actual model

Any Imperial Army that uses more than one reserve unit needs this guy.

>> No.51378007

They could nerf the Triaros down to an oversized Rhino and I'd still be glad to get a dedicated transport.

>> No.51378025

Well, some of it could use a little nerf, but looking at the Chaos stuff from them in IA13 they're decent at doing ports like this. They have the Castellax, Thallax and Vulturax decent and hopefully the Macrocarid and I'll be happy.

>> No.51378061

I always wondered why they didn't implement the Ork Klans more into the game, like giving double movement if you're part of Evil Sunz.

Though that might make them too Space Marine clone-y.

>> No.51378078

is the Start collecting nids even good?

>> No.51378089

Is it ever advisable to take hellblades instead of heldrakes?

>> No.51378092

It's good value-wise, but you're unlikely to be taking Warriors or Gargoyles.

>> No.51378096

post yfw slaanesh gets squatted

>> No.51378099

Just do a quarter circle from hem to hem and then a few spikes coming out.

>> No.51378113

Yesss. IA books so good to read some new good book after all this shitty campaigns that GW is giving to us.

>> No.51378157

It's a 15/12/12 transport (Lots of people seem to forget that Flare Shields only work on the front arc) with no fire points.

It's good, but no way near cheese levels.

>> No.51378160

This may be obvious but the rule about a bike HQ allowing bikes as troops. Does that apply across the whole army or just the formation the HQ is in?

>> No.51378171

Post rule.

>> No.51378174

20 transport capacity, built-in regeneration and a way to drive weaker units over like roadkill is plenty strong. Wouldn't be surprised if they changed it in some way.

>> No.51378181

It also has excellent firepower, super mega ram, 20 man transport capacity, and built-in reroll DT.

It's OP as fuck, but I don't really expect AdMech players to admit it. They still try to pretend their army isn't excellent post-FAQ.

>> No.51378184

Fuck yeah!!!

>> No.51378194


>> No.51378197

Just the detachment the HQ is in.

>> No.51378205

The 6+ IWND might go, but removing the shock ram would be too far, it's part of the model. Replace the Volkite chargers with something more 40k suitable (It's supposed to be locked up 30k tech anyway so Volkite would make sense but people would whine so eh)

>> No.51378215

I don't have the book with me at the moment but i know it's a thing

>> No.51378228

Thats a good idea my man, thanks.

>> No.51378230

Thanks anon.

>> No.51378233

Excellent firepower? It's one twin-linked Mauler Bolt cannon and a couple Volkite culverins, pretty much the same level of firepower you could expect to be shot out of your average transport.

>> No.51378238

Don't see a problem with Volkite. The Tech-Priest Dominus has it, wouldn't be out of the question that they'd use Volkite weaponry for planetary defense on their Forgeworlds, which is where IA 14 takes place.

>> No.51378242

are hellions decent at all?

You basically get 10 for free with the new box game

It just seems like they would be ok if they didnt hog precious FA slots

>> No.51378243

That's not average transport firepower unless we're talking Land Raiders.

Triaros is fucking good, REALLY good, I say this as an AdMech player, it makes me rock fucking hard.

>> No.51378245


>> No.51378246

>Buy the Deldar bundle for killteam playing
>Need to pack band-aid with my models now
How can small plastic men (and grills) be so fucking stabby.

>> No.51378256


>> No.51378273

for extra effect you can paint the glyphs with blood for the blood god, but use too much so it runs, BAM! improvised chaos dedication from the dead.

>> No.51378285

I'm talking firepower from the firepoints that most vehicles have and this doesn't.

And yeah, it's good and could actually make Electro Priests semi-viable but it's not the king of transports, I've only seen them used in 2 battles and they pretty much just functioned like any other transport, move shit from A-B whilst taking pot shots at shit on the way.

>> No.51378286

Anyone have any ideas for what I should add to make 1500 points?

>> No.51378292

Why does it seem some of the worst armies have the best value bundles Also thank you for posting this. I don't think ill be using the warriors or gargoyles so i probably wont pick it up. Why the fuck is the hive tyrant so expensive

>> No.51378308


>> No.51378316

>10 points - kustom mega slugga - 12" s8 ap2 pistol/gets hot
>5 points - kustom mega blasta - 24" s8 ap2 assault1/gets hot
what did gw mean by this?

>> No.51378321

The answer to any DE "What can I add" question:

More Raiders.

>> No.51378323

How about cyanide

>> No.51378330

More Blasterborn, maybe a Razorwing.
Also, split your Reavers into two squads of three unless you want to add another FA choice.

>> No.51378336

pistol gives +1 attack in melee?

>> No.51378345

>not more reavers
Fucking pleb

>> No.51378353

>No SoB

Fucking kill the faction already and end the suffering

>> No.51378359

Oh, by the way, should I make the places where I got rid of imperial symbols smooth or leave them a bit scratched, to showcase that they were formen guardsmen?

>> No.51378371

It's a relatively big model with a lot of options.

>> No.51378377

>new wave of sets made up of specifically-picked plastic models only
>expecting a SoB version
You don't even play the faction, do you? Or you do and you're the Sistersfag stereotype we all hate.

>> No.51378378

up to you

>> No.51378381

Even if Slaanesh gets squatted, Im still gonna play my mono slaanesh army on the tabletop, Ill keep the faction alive no matter what the rules say.

>> No.51378389

>15 points - plasma gun - 24" s7 ap2 rapid fire/gets hot
>15 points - plasma pistol - 24" s7 ap2 pistol/gets hot

Probably that GW doesn't understand balance / thinks the +1A from two weapons is way better than it actually is.

>> No.51378392

>it's half a squad and a heavy bolter sister

>> No.51378396

I'd rather have a squad of 6. And that extra choice of FA slots is always there for me.

Reavers are great. I love cluster caltrops mmm and hit n run mmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
You should have half scratched the imperial aquilas off

>> No.51378398

Where did you source these helmets? 30k? Fantasy?
They look pretty nice anon.

>> No.51378402

>still a 40£ savings

>> No.51378411

Definitely fantasy Warriors of Chaos heads.

>> No.51378412

Dammit why does it have to be such a detailed mini

>> No.51378414

fantasy chaos warriors, I quit fantasy shortly after 8th made my khornate warriors terrible because of absolutely no magic defense and magic being OP.
Also magical terrain was completely retarded.
Those models are also all reposed at the legs, I hate the squatting position GW puts all marines in.

>> No.51378433

Remember that's a lot less effective in 40k where for the most part there's no convenient 20 man unit for it to carry about, although a whole bunch of Peltasts in that thing would be fairly scary. It's good, but it's also an £80 Forge World toy. Not many people will be running around with more than one or two tops.

Personally I want a Macrocarid. Nicely big enough for some Kataphrons and an Inquisitor, or a Skitarii squad, nice armour, cool grav roof gun and Torrent Fleshbane AP3 templates as a sponson choice. Also worth more than 1.5 points per GBP.

Probably going to have my Vulturax and Castellax converted up then, which means I can take less deathstary Cybernetica and that adorable flyer to fix quite a lot of problems with the army.

>> No.51378442


>> No.51378448

Because that's all we fucking have as nid players right now, okay?

>> No.51378455

I fucking love the old nid models. They are so funny looking.

i know anon i know

>> No.51378463

Anon, before you assemble your mini's take a few minutes with a hobby knife/exacto blade/other name they go by and carve off those aquilas!

>> No.51378464

>starting collecting orks
its like they picked the 3 worst units in the book.

>> No.51378466

Maybe if they made plastic, like every army was having during third.

Is there any reason why there isn't any plastic SoB?

>> No.51378484

Can somebody recommend me units for a 1000 point Night Lords list?

>> No.51378485

I first assembled them as normal guard CCS, thats why they are all painted and assembled. The rest that I have will be all "fixed".

>> No.51378491

Ask GW

>> No.51378500

raptors and heldrakes

>> No.51378504

Son did you just got triggered? By someone asking for SoB?

>> No.51378508

Does anybody think they will release the Triumvirate as individual models?

In my experience they tend to release group things but then repackage them individually after a couple months.

I just want some confirmation other people think this way to quell my anxiety about not getting it right now as I do not really want giant robot man and to foot the extra $20-30 for the privilege of owning a model I will never paint.

>> No.51378534

GW doesn't know, I'm starting to think the rumour of "we don't do marketing research" is true

Anyone has the Vyridian mail showing how confused they where about her popularity?

>> No.51378535

Sisters weren't popular enough to get a plastic release back in the day, and never have been. That's why they stayed metal, and why they will stay metal unless GW decides to surprise reboot the faction.

>> No.51378555

Buy the models(s) you like from Ebay, or buy the Triumvirate and sell the one(s) you don't want/split it with a friend.

There, done.

>> No.51378559


There was debate about which was better in 4th edition. The cost of both are a relic from that age.
Back then, the plasma pistol:
>Allowed you to fire twice if you were stationary, but overheated on a 1 or 2
>Let you charge afterwards
>Gave the +1 attack in assault, back when assault armies were king

Back then, the plasma gun:
>Only allowef you to fire outside 12" if you were stationary
>Fired twice inside 12", but overheated on a 1 or 2

>> No.51378602

>I quit a game everytime im not playing the most OP brokenshit anymore

>> No.51378619

They are actually not too shabby on the offensive side of things. Decent amount of poison shots and s4 melee attacks with FC later and possible s5 from drugs make them okay when dropping the hurt. However, they have tshirt for saves and are t3 so unless you're deepstriking them, they will likely be giving away first blood turn 1. My verdict? Use with extreme caution.

As for the FA slots problem, just run the realspace raider detachment. 6 FA slots is more than enough outside of 2k++ games.

>> No.51378625

depends on how u make it.

>> No.51378636

>plays CSM
>has done since WHFB 8th
Dude if he was WAAC he'd have picked Tau or some shit. CSM a shit. A SHIT.

Until TL made them decent.

>> No.51378651

I'd go with more more raiders and reavers. 2 more start collecting boxes should be sufficient for your needs.

>> No.51378666

what is his actual model?

>> No.51378669

Back in 3rd everyone had at least their troop choice in plastic.
The only exceptions where DH and WH.

While the rest of the armies where getting plastic kits and new models.

It is a case of models didn't sold because they where already old and expensive. They continue to this day to be the oldes un updated army.

TL:DR SoB when 3rd was release and WH codex was release they already had old models.

>> No.51378706

I won't be surprised if GW doesn't do marketing research. They don't have easy access to the kind of data they need (playtesting data, who plays what and in what percentages) and are really only working with whatever feedback they get from their stores in the form of sales and possibly manager feedback (likelihood: unlikely).

If they'd run more events, they'll get a better idea on things, but right now they are pretty handsoff about market research which limits the data sets they are working with

>> No.51378712

Yes, and why didn't they get a plastic release in 3rd? They did not sell well enough. I mean fuck, the codex hit at the tail end of 2nd, you'd think if there was ever a time they'd have been popular it'd have been back then.

Sistersfags need to stop deluding themselves into thinking anyone but them cares about their faction.

>> No.51378726

whats the value of the new commorath gangs of box

>> No.51378754

>11 BS4 S6 shots
>average transport
See, utterly delusional. It's an extremely cost-efficient MBT that just so happens to have an enormous transport capacity.

>> No.51378769

Can I have another army CAD as an allied force?

>> No.51378773


it doesn't have culverins, it has chargers.

3 str6 ap3 shots
4 str5 ap5 shots

>> No.51378788

hey there /tg/ I'm pretty new to 40k and I feel like I've made a grave error in picking Orks. I don't mind not winning a whole ton, but why the hell are my nobs worse than or barely equal to a tactical marine in almost every way, but cost more?

>> No.51378793

I don't immediately see why not.

>> No.51378800

still with crazy BS levels depending on the turn; I would 100% buy one if it wasnt buttfuck expensive

>> No.51378802

I do, and I play tau and IG.

>> No.51378809

If that was true just kill the faction and stop this nonsense then.

They have done it at least 4 times already with different armies and even killed entire games.

Why not do it with SoB?

>> No.51378813

Hold onto your models and hopes, if 40k is getting a reboot one of the first armies to get revised are Orks

>> No.51378816

>worse than or barely equal to a tactical marine in almost every way, but cost more?

It's like that for nearly every faction anon, don't fret

>> No.51378820

Everyone loves Orkz. GW, however, hates Orkz. If you can have fun with them, try to, but they're so underpowered as to be laughable.

They're really fired up!

>> No.51378821

I would like to switch from my marine list to playing dark eldar so I can experiance the game from the strongest to the least forgiving.

My question is, would it be good to start buying my army the eldar triumvirate box and gangs of commoragh/start collecting?

I don't own Fall of cadia but would the previous Triumvirate fly as a starting box for a new army?

>> No.51378827

Not a get started box.
but 79£

>> No.51378829

Obviously with dedicating to my original forces warlord benefits it'd be legal right?

>> No.51378830


>> No.51378837

>Everyone loves Orkz
that's a mighty big statement on behalf of everyone you're making there

>> No.51378845

Box: £35
Reavers: £48
Hellions: £15.50
Models value: £63.50

Savings: £28.50

>> No.51378852

Almost always the answer to this question is 'more Trueborn'. Scourges are good too if you prefer them, but personally I feel like blasterborn offer more effectiveness.

Building most good Dark Eldar lists, at least with the base codex and in my experience, has very little variety sadly. You're either going to want to bring more Kabalites, Trueborn, Reavers or Scourges. Most other units aren't really worth your time, unless you're running corpse thief claw, which you should generally do if you can.

Basically, just work towards solid army redundancy and you should be building as effectively as you can with Deldar.

>> No.51378863

It's also not an average 30-60 point transport but costs 135 points and is supposed to be a middle-ground between Land Raiders and Rhinos.

>> No.51378868

Because having 2 wounds is massively overvalued in a lot of cases for infantry. Sometimes it helps, sometimes it doesn't.

Nob Wargear prices in general are basically all a wash though. You're better off with Mega-armor versions for assaulting, or normal bike squads for shooting.

>> No.51378870

the imperial triumvirate is definitely not an army box, its 3 snowflakes

>> No.51378874

tac marines arent even good tho

>> No.51378875

Oh shit I forgot Hellions come in boxes of 5 so Gangs actually includes 2 boxes worth of them.
So the models value is actually £79 and you actually save £44.

>> No.51378877

Jesus, there are too many rules and rolls to make when setting up and playing a game.
But after scanning the rulebook, you can have any combination of any detachments you want.

>> No.51378888

its not legal in 40k though right?

>> No.51378895

>Sisters weren't popular enough to get a plastic release back in the day, and never have been.

Thats bullshit. Grey Knights didn't get a plastic release back in the day either, and they didn't become popular until they went plastic.

Metal models are off-putting to customers, and Finecast is even worse, and still people will buy SoB. They're the worst supported army in the entire setting, and people are willing to invest in them.

If GW doesn't see money in plastic SoBs then that is because they're fucktards. They didn't think anyone wanted Mechanicus models or 30K either. They're incompetent businessmen who mistake the massive appeal of their product for evidence that they're decisions are good.

>> No.51378896

We've literally been discussing about if it's going to be in IA 14 or not.

>> No.51378899

Gangs of Commoragh alongside start collecting might be a bit heavy on reavers, and you'll have a ton of fast attack units with the hellions with it.

Hellions aren't too great compared to the other options in that slot. I would say 2 start collecting boxes might be the better purchace.

There's no clue as to how the Trimverate box will be, but you'll probably want to start smaller than going for 3 likely 200 point HQs.

>> No.51378900

I remember GW doing a market research.
About EIGHT years ago.
It was basically "what kind of non-wargame products do you want us to make?"
The result was Ultramarine: the movie.

>> No.51378901

Guy from previous couple threads ago last night who had orks and sallies and wanted to start a new army.

It has come to my attention that a country with a huge population in asia has started producing warhammer "tribute" models.

I was curious what the best way to search for these is on google as it seems most Aliexpress sellers have shut down.

Was thinking of getting 2-3 start collecting eldar boxes and a "tribute" wraith knight and warp spiders or just "tribute aspect warriors. The one thing turning me away from eldar was the cost of old finecast aspect warriors.

Alternatively they seem to have lots of Tau stuff cheap if I wanted to do Farsight.

How bad of an idea is this?

Pic possibly related.

>> No.51378906

I can guarantee that you won't have volkite on the 40k version of it.

>> No.51378911

yeah but peltasts are 40k

>> No.51378913

Not sure that everyone loves them.

But GW thinks they are not under power or over costed for what they do.

>> No.51378914

Think I could sell the hellions out of the Gangs box for $20 usd?

>> No.51378925

>you'll have a ton of fast attack units with the hellions with it.
if you take the raiders detachment its basically all fast attack

>> No.51378933


How the fuck do you not like orks?

>> No.51378934

>finally finish to read fall of cadia
>know that I will never suck on celestines pure breasts while I rest my head next to her perfectly trimmed and smooth pussy hair

emperor save me

>> No.51378936

You couldn't pay most people to take them.

>> No.51378941


>> No.51378942

>Grey Knights didn't get a plastic release back in the day either, and they didn't become popular until they went plastic.
Thank you for proving my point.

>GW are retarded, Sisters would be super popular if they were plastic, etc.
In other news the sky is blue.

>> No.51378952

How are those related to the Triaros?

And they're also not formally introduced yet. They're legal, but still experimental rules.

>> No.51378964

If anything will have Volkite, it's the old Mechanicum toys. I'd give it a coin flip, seeing as the Dominus already has one they may not restrict it. Personally, I just want to shoot something with it that isn't 3+, 2+ or AV14.

>> No.51378965


hail hydra

tfw the FAQ says you cant do this anymore

>> No.51378966

>not railing qt Greyfox as she eyes you suspiciously

>> No.51378967

Quit being a skub loving faggot and support the hobby

>> No.51378974

Two SCs and a GoCs would be a good start.

>> No.51378987

What's wrong with it?

>> No.51378991


Harlequins are less forgiving than DE.

>> No.51378999

They're a meme faction.

>> No.51379004

How fucking big is your head?

>> No.51379007

Unlikely. Hold on to them for bits and/or a new book a couple years down the line.

>> No.51379010

What does that even mean

>> No.51379012

Get laid guys.

>> No.51379019

Is it me or does the Trukk need to go down about 15 or so more points?

>> No.51379020

Did you forget the part where I am buying GW plastic kits and supplementing?

>> No.51379029

>bit heavy on reavers
No such thing.

>> No.51379031

Where do you think we are?

>> No.51379033

>2 hours
what the actual fuck

>> No.51379037

Is hoping to get a 2k list finished and fully painted, mainly infantry with like 4 vehicles, too much to do in 6 weeks?
The current rumour is that the global campaign kicks off end of March/April, and i really want to get it all done

>> No.51379038


It's impossible to have to many reavers. You'll need 18 just to bring the bare minimum to fill a RSR detatchment

>> No.51379053

I'm hoping to build and at least partially paint a 1,500 point Imperial Guard army in a single night before the game.

>> No.51379059

Depends on what you want to do M8
If you are going venom spam then there's no need for the SC

>> No.51379061

The FAQ is retarded and should be largely used as fuel for discussion instead of accepted blindly.

>> No.51379071

Wasn't your point that only SoBfags cared about them?

People care about SoBs enough to pay the for metal and old models, enough for a kickstarter of not! SoB and even third party sellers.

There is a market might not be Marine large market but there is one.

For some reason there are people here that have a hate boner against SoB, but then again people love to hate here

>> No.51379081

Yeah how dare the company who developed the rules change them. What gives them the fucking right???

>> No.51379083

Depends on the army. We talking a hundred Imperial Guardsmen plus tanks, or are we talking half a dozen Disc Sorcerers and some Dreadnoughts?

>> No.51379109

About 60 guys, 18 jetbike sized models and 3 vehicles

>> No.51379113

Probably not that far, though it could use some extra bonus to make it more worth its points instead.

>> No.51379117

The Alpha Legion thing isn't even close to the only issue with the FAQ, but it's pretty retarded. Based on the FAQ, the Alpha Legion detachment is pretty much useless.

>> No.51379120

MWG is probably one of the worst batrep people on youtube

>> No.51379121

>9000 hours in ms paint

>> No.51379128

Basically anything that isn't Marine or an army anon does not like.

>> No.51379130


miniwargaming needs to improve their editing if it takes them 2 hours for one battle report

>> No.51379133

It'll be tight, but you could get them all to a 3-color tabletop standard.

>> No.51379135

that's your interpretation, since the rules have different names they never stacked, they both trigger

>> No.51379172

Forgeworld hates the idea that volkite survived into 40k. They won't write rules for it.

>> No.51379174

There are countless batreps out there that dont show dicerolling, pick one of those

>> No.51379179

Poor Huron Blackheart. He was getting pushed to the moon as the alt-Black Legion CSM bossman. Now, renegades are almost a non factor because Traitor Legions exists and Abaddon got his shit together.

What do you guys think of the Red Corsairs? Do you think they have a future?

>> No.51379192

depends what standard you're painting to and how expensive your models are points wise

>> No.51379196

That the FAQ is so absurdly open to interpretation is a massive issue in and of itself. The purpose of an FAQ is to answer questions, not just confuse everyone even more.

>> No.51379197

>volkite survived into 40k.
doesnt the dominus tech priest in the skitarii starter box have a volkite blaster?

>> No.51379207

60 guys what kind, space marines? what legion

some guys you can get away with spray-paint, wash, highlight, pick out the guns and eyes

also do you have an airbrush

>> No.51379212

i wish there was more batreps that showed dicerolling

>> No.51379226

I asked my local GW's manager and he said that "FAQ are rules clarifications and can be wrong because FAQ aren't written by rules writers, Errata is rule changes and is written by rules writers"

>> No.51379231

Too many red and bronze CSM factions, shit name, kinda bland.

Maybe we'll get lucky and see a Renegade Astartes supplement or something, but I doubt it.

>> No.51379249

>I asked my local GW's manager
so did I, and he said, whatever, its just a game

>> No.51379250

Yes he does

>> No.51379252

Stick to just basecoat/one wash for dudes and basecoat/one drybrush for tanks and it should be doable. Try to think about how you can cut down colors and pick them to work with the all over wash you want to use. Probably earthy colors and Agrax Earthshade.

>> No.51379253


I swear they get rules wrong deliberately just for attention.

>> No.51379254

I'm pretty sure there is no distinction in terms of who's doing the errata versus FAQ, and the words of red-shirts are notoriously unreliable.

>> No.51379255

I've seen armies larger than that done to a reasonable standard in a single week.

That said, it takes dedicated effort to actually finish a project like that.

>> No.51379264

Just normal TT standard, i know i'm not yet great at painting

Something simple like IH - i really like Metal Men, and yeah i do own an AB, so i could just base them all in 1 go

>> No.51379266

>That empty board

>> No.51379273

that sounds like a local gw manager lol

>> No.51379274

How best do you run assaulty Chosen /tg/?

>> No.51379285

base coat them, zenith highlight, 2 passes for the whole army with an airbrush, then you can paint wash into the recesses and line highlight and finish the army in a weekend easily

>> No.51379291

As Not!Palatine Blades

>> No.51379294


>> No.51379306

Yeah the biggest thing holding me back is myself and inability to focus on 1 task until its done

>> No.51379317

I would say to go for Slaanesh marks, as they already have a good number of attacks, and throw in a couple of power swords or mauls hidden in a larger unit. They can get pretty expensive fast, and loading up on a bunch of special melee weapons can end badly.

>> No.51379326

Most based Chaos faction

Will likely get rules in the future

>> No.51379335

>345 points for a squad of 9 space marines, about 38 points per guy
>100 points for the dreadclaw which will eat some of them
>dreadclaw might eat the icon of excess banner bearer

cool list

>> No.51379347

General rules question, can an Officer of the fleet (CCS officer) use his special rule regarding reserve rolls while embarked on a chimera Transport? It has the command vehicle special rule, but I forgot if the special rule for OOF is an "order" or not.

>> No.51379363

Important 40k question;

Are there any other variations of these?

>> No.51379368

I think he means the old metal one from regimental advisors of the astra militarum, it comes together with a Master of the Fleet and a Ordnance officer

>> No.51379382


>> No.51379383


>> No.51379384

Illegal but good attempt

>> No.51379400

did gw ever put out a how to paint black legion?

>> No.51379405

For my Guard I usually take a ML1 IA Astroapth to put with heavy weapons quads to use Prescience, but I always bring a ML2 version with Infantry Blobs and Conscripts. If I bring Bullgryn, I run a Primaris Psyker with Biomancy.

But yeah, they are amazing. I usually have about 4 in my army. Psychic Shriek is amazing, so are Guard blobs with Forewarning. 4++ on 30-40 models and 4++ re-rollable in close combat. Invisibility and Shrouding are also fuck yeah if you get them.

Biomancy is super fun with Bullgryn though if you manage to get Endurance. They just never die.

>> No.51379411

I made this as a meme, but how is it illegal?
Is it the Dreadclaw?

>> No.51379440

It is chaos as fuck though. Will not fight how horribly expensive chosen are

>> No.51379472

Is there a reason as to why the Leman Russ Plasma Cannon's coils are painted metallic, but the sponson cannons are "plasma blue" like how GW usually paints them?

>> No.51379478

Dread claw is legal. Not sure what the other guy is saying isn't allowed. I would drop the rhino on the havoc though

>> No.51379491


>> No.51379499

Too many weapons on the Chosen

>> No.51379502

One weapon is activated, the other isn't?

>> No.51379505

Is the Renegade army good at all? I really want to run a Death Guard Vectorium with them and have the option to fire all my artillery into my nigh unkillable nurgle units locked in combat with rapier lasers throwing out much needed AP2

>> No.51379507


>> No.51379522

Renegades are good.

>> No.51379526


Which one of these would be best to buy for a new player just looking for play kill team?

>> No.51379533

The one for the army you want to play.

>> No.51379536

Tyranids are good at killteams

>> No.51379537


>> No.51379581


>> No.51379597

>Pick out details with brass colour of choice
>Drybrush bolter metallic of choice

>> No.51379606

So what kind of Skitarii army would prefer to invest the extra points into Rangers over Vanguard? There must be a niche that they fill way better than Vanguards.

>> No.51379608

That's the one. I'm gonna greenstuff a blindfold onto him because I don't want to paint empty sockets.

>> No.51379620

So Im done scratching my guardsmen. Guess all I need is a brass paint.

>> No.51379627

having a few rangers is always handy - that 30" range is great

>> No.51379663

What's that model in your pic?

>> No.51379680

I myself am only just getting into the amazing power of Guard and Psykers.

I have. Primaris, and I snagged the old Inquisitor Coteaz model from a friend, but I just hate the look of the Wyrdvane psyker models. They're usually better as ICs anyway.

What makes Guard so great with Blessings is the same thing that makes them great with Orders. With one dice roll you can give a buff to SO MANY models!

>50-man lascannon battery
>add in Primaris Psyker and put a CCS nearby
>2 dice rolls later
>5 twin-linked, cover-ignoring/tank-hunting s9ap2 shots going riiiight up your butthole Morty
>b-but I can charge them
>sure lemme pick up ~90 dice and REROLL them

>> No.51379681

What kits have good bits to mix in to my renegade guards dedicated to khorne? I wanted the normal cultists, but they are snap fit.

>> No.51379688

GW was actually going to squat them, it's Andy Chambers fault they got into Codex: Witch Hunters.

>> No.51379689

Vanguard are just more effective as a core unit. I usually have two 5 man units of Rangers sat somewhere where they can get good fire-arcs with their two transuranic arquebi.

Other than that, I don't see what use they are. Their rifles are good, but not as good as cancer guns and they don't knock a point of T off of anyone who attacks them either. Move through cover is meh and not worth their increased points, at least as a unit to build your army around.

>> No.51379704

You may want to look towards some fantasy kits, maybe look towards a bits site to just some more simple stuff like axes, swords, and spikier helmets

>> No.51379717

Well thanks for the feedback, shame i'll never run it unless i won the lottery and had THAT much free time and money

>> No.51379740

Outside of a more long-range gunline style army, I think Vanguard are usually the better option, and if you're being mobile, you'll want more of them instead.

Perhaps with an Aegis line or something similar for them to bunker down in with bigger guns.

>> No.51379741

>2017 still "alive"
>New HQ
>Only that

I want to believe you, but GW loves their IP too much.

>> No.51379745

If you're cool with FW, there's the renegade guardsmen upgrade kits that look rad.

>> No.51379766

It was from an interview with Andy Chambers a while ago, in which he stated that were it not for his begging and pleading, they would be gone as a playable army, or something along those lines, iirc. Too busy right now to dedicate time to look for the actual thing, sorry.

>> No.51379769

I know, it looks really good, but Im just a poor boy, I need some chinaman...
I know you cant post it here, but I have no idea where to look.

>> No.51379771

Where do I get me some alternate cultists? I was considering equipping skeletons with spikey bitz, CCWs, and pistols but I don't actually have that many skellies.

>> No.51379798

Since its renegade guardsmen, Im doing a more shooty army. But what I need are heads and skulls to show that they are khornates, maybe some ragged clothes or something.

>> No.51379806


>> No.51379827

Agreed. Orders plus Psychic Powers is amazingly fun. What's also nice is that if you have a big blob Guard squad dedicated to melee or counter attacking, you can put in an Imperial Agents Priest with Book of St Lucius to make him auto pass his War Hymns. Sure, it's only one per army, but if that's the dedicated anti-melee unit, that's the unit to get the auto War Hymns. Especially if they get Forewarning. You could also be extra spicy and get a Xenos Inquisitor with all those bonus grenades, lowering the enemies toughness. Or you could get that one Inquisitor upgrade that requires a Leadership test to give the unit bonuses like Counter-Attack.

I regret not buying the old Coteaz warband back when I played Witch Hunters in 3rd. I've been using old Inquisitor models as Astropaths and Primaris Psykers. I think I'll just get the Wyrdvane Psyker models and count them as both. Maybe painting them different colors to show the difference.

>> No.51379833


Just a heads up anon, fellow renegades player here. Standard men come at BS 2. You have to pay for an upgrade to make them average.

>> No.51379854

Yeah, but Im going with Bloody Handed Reaver. So that means militia training for everyone.

>> No.51379855

Ah Reddit.
>Please do not share our information.
>Share the information

>> No.51379863

Understandable, though knives and pointy bits for bayonets might help.

I'm not sure if there's a good kit just for loose skulls.

>> No.51379873

>BS 2
>mfw a lack of faith in the God Emperor actively degrades your marksmanship

Traitors, not even once.

>> No.51379894

I was thinking just some skellies, but I never played Fantasy, so I dont know if the heads are loose.

>his vets dont have BS4 and WS4
Why even try loyalist?

>> No.51379900

Nah, more just that the army starts with the freedom to run them as civilians who are rebelling, with an upgrade to run them as actual traitor guard.

>> No.51379915

Might just want to try 3rd party bits for piles of skulls. Just a quick search gave me this:


>> No.51379935

Cant someone just use 10minute mail and like give a link? I`d be very greatful.

>> No.51379941

>his vets dont have BS4 and WS4

Jokes on you, I'm Skitarii, three turns of basic troops with a WS or BS of 5+

>> No.51379961

I was thinking vamp counts zombies, they have nice heads to hang on my vets and the weapons might be useful to make some muties or just something for the basic infantry.
At least we have transports, stupid tin cans.

>> No.51379967

>average transport
Is your other army eldar by chance?

>> No.51379975

Zhadsnark makes bikes into Troops, and joins the warbike mob of 6. Zagstruk joins the stormboyz. Tankbustas ride in the battlewagon. Feedback appreciated.

>> No.51379988

sure you would GWlegal

>> No.51379995

>At least we have transports, stupid tin cans.

Pfff, got Crusader and Scout, enjoy dying when your metal bawkses explode tho.

>> No.51380004

Now you reminded me that castellans formation has a Skitarii in the background but no S or CM options.

Quality control is an overrated concept for GW

>> No.51380020

>+1 attack
>bs 2
I think it's pretty obvious

>> No.51380024

>Deploy my SoB army
>Opponent gets first turn, np
>His bikes/jetbikes move forward at maximum speed
>his vehicles do the same, flat out straigth to me
>His whole army has crossed half the distance between us
>My turn, hold my positions and shoot with all my weapons
>kill several infantry but no big deal
>Turn 2
>Opponent moves forwards, runs and charge my squads
>His melee oriented army rape my poor girls
>He takes no casualities in close combat except a few from overwatch
>my turn: everyone is locked in combat so I can't shoot anything. Charge with what I have left, but this is already too late
> Turn 3
> Get table'd

I can't have more than one shooting phase, two if I rolled for first turn, but it's still not enough.
What am I supposed to do /tg/?

>> No.51380028

regular slugga is free

>> No.51380050

[email protected]
if somebody would like to help an anon out

>> No.51380057

First, check if your opponent can actually move, run, and charge out of their transports, because often they probably won't have enough reach.

Second, you need more Melta dominions or heavy flamer teams to help pop transports and burn assault units.

You also may need to try backing up to try and deny him just enough charge range. Putting some difficult terrain in between you can help.

Also, try Exorcists for long-range firepower.

>> No.51380072

Gw is a business, production costs money, and while we all love to wank off at expertly drawn Sob fan art, no one actually wants to buy them and play the army

>> No.51380078

More flamers. When they try and get in CC they'll get roasted (especially Deldar/Harlies).

>> No.51380081

What is your list? Girls on foot in this edition and how games work is rather suicidal.

You need transport and never leave them unless they blow up.

>> No.51380084

gargoyles are part of the tyranids' best formation, so you won't be unlikely to use them. the warriors however...

>> No.51380100


>> No.51380105

I would play. Hell I have a kitbash SoB army just for fun of it.
Playing with SoB right now is like playing in hard mode and for some people that is fun.

>> No.51380116



Harpy tax is way too high and the FAQ nerf on reserves took away the main thing that made obsec gargs useful.

>> No.51380127


It sounds like you're not even running any transports, which is your problem. Castle up against shit like that and use terrain to your advantage. Remember that bikes take dangerous terrain tests in all terrain.


Eh, Sisters are solid mid tier. There are definitely worse, armies to be playing, but you need the models for it.

>> No.51380149

Please Im poor

>> No.51380161

then warhamer is not for you

>> No.51380170

Let me phrase is diffrently
Im too poor for FW

>> No.51380178

This, everyone looks at marine fluff and thinks they're op, the reality is that tac marines are pathetically weak on the table top.

>be marine
>get shot
>be double or triple the points of every other basic troop in the game

>> No.51380193

If we can find chiman's contacts on the internet, then you can too. Put some effort into it and look around.
They repeatedly ask us NOT to share their contact information.

>> No.51380208

not disagreeing with you, your post merely triggered my curiosity.
How many factions basic troops are *actually* ~5-7 points? most of them are closer to 9/10, are they not?

>> No.51380217

I guess so. I just dont know where to start. At least a hint and I`ll shut the fuck up.

>> No.51380228

>wanting to have sexual relations with a living saint
>not wanting to have sexual relations with fictional characters

>> No.51380232


>> No.51380239

Guard, LatD, nids, orkz. If you count cultists as basic troops, then CSM.

>> No.51380252

> Internet anonymous guy refuse to give an information that everyone should be able to get on the internet because it is top secret information

>> No.51380256

Why did they change the gender of Ynnead from a female to a male?

>> No.51380300

Enid has a tit, good enough.

>> No.51380301

Anybody take the knot recently?

>> No.51380312

>Odds of guardsman dying to bolter round hitting him
>2/3 or 4/9 if in cover
>odds of marine dying if hit
>1/6 all the time
>4/9 divided by 1/6 is 2.66667
>Marine also has BS4 WS4 S4 and I4

The costs make sense when looking at survivabilty and strength regarding infantry weapons.
In the age of D blasts though, any infantry is shit.

>> No.51380315

I krumped them last time i faced them.

>> No.51380319

Leman Russ, please leave.

>> No.51380321

Sisters are better than Orks, Tyranids, Dark Eldar, most CSM legions, and Grey Knights.

>> No.51380343

>In the age of D blasts though, any infantry is shit.
Except big based small prices

>> No.51380344

Yeah. The problem with marines is more due to how cheap high volume AP 2 shooting is nowadays.

>> No.51380428

Honestly every ap 3 ranged weapon should double in cost and every ap 2 weapon triple. If they got templates, increase the multiplicator by one.

>> No.51380441

I miss when Assault was king.
You could still survive in a metal box if shooty enough but at least 3+ and 2+ saves meant something.
Even when all power weapons were AP2 Terminators seemed decent.

>> No.51380446

But ap4 is A ok

>> No.51380448

>t.Grey Fag

>> No.51380468

I hate when Marine players bitch about fucking AP3 and 2. You have no clue how lucky you are with the saves you have.

>> No.51380475

Anything to preserve them marines

>> No.51380486

4+ Infantry isn't nearly as overcosted as 3+ infantry and AP4 weaponry is usually shitty already (Heavy Bolters, Autocannons)

>> No.51380491

>tfw your Ren Vets will never get to save a wound becasue everything is AP4

>> No.51380493

There are so few AP 3 weapons as it is, and most of them are already quite overcosted for what they do.

Some AP 2 weapons are similarly fine, but pretty much any AP 2 weapon that gets more than 2 shots either needs to be a lot more expensive or have it trimmed down.

Yeah, that's basically it. Armor saves don't mean anything thanks to more powerful shooting, so now it's all about cover saves, invlun saves, and feel no pain, which is harder to ignore.

Of course ignores cover, instant death, and things that ignore invuln saves are only getting more common.

>> No.51380525

I'm sorry your T3 5+ models cost half what ours do and are more maneuvarble thanks to better transports or can load up on more special weapons point-to-point.

>> No.51380527


>> No.51380540

marines are on average 2-3 points more than 4+ and that doesn't' take into account better stats, atsknf

>> No.51380549

Slaanesh can't get squatted. If he dies there is nothing that could stand in the way of the Eldar taking the galaxy back under their control, bar the Tyranids (possibly, but not likely).

>> No.51380574

Oh what a load of bollox. You are one of the best armies in the game with every other army trying to compete with you/is compared to you. Fuck off with "muh too much AP3/2" weaponry. I'm sick of hearing that bullshit

>> No.51380577

What about ap5 weapon?

>> No.51380584

>Some AP 2 weapons are similarly fine, but pretty much any AP 2 weapon that gets more than 2 shots either needs to be a lot more expensive or have it trimmed down.
AP2 weaponry should never be spammable. It's just fucking retarded if a 250 points unit of terminators gets plasma'd to death by fucking guardsmen

>good against infantry

Marines also have huge unit taxes in the form of very bad access to special and heavy weapons
Compare Devastators to IG Heavy Weapon Teams

>> No.51380622

How awful is this list? The list builder doesn't have Renegades so sorry for the eyesore. The ordnance tyrant allows all of my artillery to shoot into combat which sounds like a good time

>> No.51380628

I was exaggerating but you get the idea

>> No.51380630

>Compare Devastators to IG HWTs
>One can take Grav, one can't

Seems to be in the marine's favor, bruh

>> No.51380647

1. it's a god
2. wasn't supposed to be male first
3. how can you tell they are elves

>> No.51380678

>One of the best
>Only viable thanks to gravspam
>All codices without grab are mid tier at best
Yeah, Marines are totally top because of their 3+ saves base

Also, I only play chaos marines when not playing guardsmen.

>> No.51380708

The Eldar don't have the numbers. Even if Slaanesh went poof tomorrow, the Eldar would be in no position to take back the galaxy. perhaps if all the Eldar subfactions reunited they'd have a fighting chance, but even then it wouldn't be anything that would be happening soon.

Besides, with Slaanesh out of the way, the Dark Eldar would be free to completely revert back to their ancient hedonistic ways. They'd sit around in the webway and do fuck all unless the mood took them.

>> No.51380724

Remember when Marine Infantry didn't give free Razorbacks? Nobody used them, everything was scouts or bikes.It takes 600 points of free shit and global rerolls to make marines on foot good, so go fuck yourself.

5 Devastators with Grav cost as much as 6 Heavy Weapon Teams with Laser Cannons, or if you factor in the platoon tax (which is still useful) 3 Laser Canons and 25 scoring bodies.

Two HWTs have twice as many wounds, greater range and will kill most tanks more reliably while sitting in a comfortable cover save on an objective (they're troops)

>> No.51380726

Yeah, they are one of the best actually.
>Only viable because of gravspam
As much bullshit Grav-spam is, it doesn;t make Marines fucking viable. And yes, marines are good because of their 3 up saves. Try being other armies where 3 up saves are barely a thing.

>> No.51380729

>Only viable thanks to gravspam
I'll take what are free transports, Skyhammer and superfriends for 500.

>> No.51380746

By not making them viable I meant they are viable already without Gravspam

>> No.51380769


'12 inch movement' doesn't really mean anything when you're talking about vehicles. Most vehicles can move up to 12" in the movement phase anyway.

Assuming you mean (a) all non-walker, non-flier vehicles become fast vehicles and (b) all walkers move like super-heavy walkers, then battlewagons become much better, deff dreads become good enough that you might take them if they didn't use battlewagon slots, killa kans and the morka/gorkanaut are better, but probably not good enough to take in a competitive game, trukks become out-competed by battlewagons, buggies stay about the same because it isn't their speed which makes them good.

If the planes could slow down to 12" combat speed, that would be a significant buff for the shooty ones.

>> No.51380781

>tell DEldar o fuck around like space rabbits
>use their pre-fall knowledge/tech and your psychic powers
>in the 42nd milennium, there is only spehss elfs

>> No.51380787

>600 points of free tanks or 20 pt a piece lascannons are viable
>that means 3+ Infantry is good

>Assaulting from Reserves and free pinning, deepstriking relentless heavy weapons are strong
>that means 3+ infantry is viable

>ridiculous deathstar combos with 2+/3++ rerollable/FNP is viable
>that means 3+ Infantry is viable

I bet you think Kroot and Devilfish and Howling Banshees are good just because Riptides and Wraithlords exist you retard

>> No.51380813

Aside from low birth rates, high attrition, infighting, and the needs of the plot?
Crons and nids.

>> No.51380815

Play a game with orks using those options then.

>> No.51380833

I don't know how I forgot about that bullshit either.

Marines are only good because cheese, not because their statline. They get access to so much freeshit and the most broken infantry guns in the game. After all that shit they only pale to undercosted monstrous creatures that should be vehicles, powerful psykers and armies where every gun has pseudo rending. Their armour doesn't save them from that shit but it does put them above Orks, tyranids and DE.

>> No.51380834

Even at their height, it seems the Eldar didn't directly control and colonise the galaxy like Humans do.

The DAoT, with Humanity spreading out and colonising all over the galaxy, coincides with the Eldar Empire. I guess when you can create custom paradise dimensions in the Webway, the material universe can be a bit messy and bland to colonise, hence why the Exodites were seen as such kooks for going out and digging the mud to found actual colonies.

Without Slaanesh, I doubt the Eldar would suddenly conquer the galaxy in sort of pointy-eared version of the Great Crusade.

Craftworlders just don't have the numbers to challenge the Imperium, and won't for a long time, even with Slaanesh forcing them to limit births to soulstone availability.

Exodites will carry on doing what they do; being irrelevent.

And Commorites will just continue what they do, although I imagine real-space raids would dramatically increase due to the threat of having their soul nommed being removed, but still no real annexing of territory outside of the Webway.

Angry slave-Banshee wat do?

>> No.51380838

>X is worse than Y
>so you shouldn't complain about Y

People out there have cancer, you shouldn't complain tat Orks are underpowered

>> No.51380848

You clearly have no idea what you are talking about.

>> No.51380876

Space marines are literally on par with eldars right now on the cheese-o-meter. ON PAR.

>> No.51380881

>implying DEldars don't already.
Getting you soul nommed isn't an issue for them as long as they have slaves to torture, and they won't change their way of life because Slaanesh is dead (they didn't change it when shi appeared in the first place,so...). They got sex, drugs, and rock & roll, they're already living the dream.

Not to mention the eldar subfactions mostly hate each other.

>> No.51380884

Oops, translation fuckup, Wraithknights

>> No.51380885

I think in some ways Deldar raids might actually decrease, as the reason they raid in the first place is to top off their souls for Slaanesh. They may spend more time there, but they'll probably just sit in the webway for the most part now that they don't need to go to such extremes just to survive.

I feel the Eldar may have largely learned their lesson and not go full pre-fall insanity, but they'll probably still loosen up a fair bit as they rebuild their population.

>> No.51380892

The point is you're complaining about how much AP3/2 weaponry there is when other entire factions have to deal with much, much worse. That's all Space Marine players do, fucking complain.

>> No.51380917

>The kids in Africa arestarving, you shouldn't complain because I just punched you in the face

>> No.51380946

Oh what a bullshit comparison. You're implying that a 3 up save is bad.

>> No.51380957

>battle focus
No one is on par with eldar right now. Guardians are the best basic troops in the game

>> No.51380960

A more apt metaphor would be complaining that your free burger & fries had no ketchup, while the rest of the table only got a salad.

>> No.51380979


Same renegade Anon here, Anon. Sorry, but you only get one mob of zombies.

If you want to run them, take an allied contingent of Typhus + plague.

>> No.51380988

>ITT: Space marines complain that other armies can beat there saves

>> No.51380992

Having large numbers of AP 2 weapons floating around hurts everyone. It makes vehicles easier to blow up, and it denies everyone armor. It doesn't make things better when such things can also ignore cover or are giant pieplates to clear out hordes as well.

Shooting being too strong is a universal problem. Guns have only gotten better and cheaper as things have gone on. Grav is a culprit there, but not all marines get grav.

>> No.51380993

it's overcosted and on its own not worth it

>> No.51381003

A 3 up save in a meta of firepower that ignores that save is nothing more than a shitty consolation prize. Tac squads are awful for their point cost, and I will only suffer the bitching of ork or nid players that say otherwise

>> No.51381024

>your only advantage is your superior armour
> that advantage gets taken away
>lol stop crying fag

>> No.51381033

Since when did Marineshitters not complain about shit? They're probably just pissed this month because a faction that isn't them is getting a release.

>> No.51381035

>only advantage
Sure thing

>> No.51381037

At least be happy that the shitposting has to do with the game this time around.

>> No.51381038

And bs 4 and t4 and all their formation, and meltas, and plasma, and grav, and psykerspam

>> No.51381049

>he doesn't know about Skitarii Vanguard
Guardians are great, but they aren't the best.

>> No.51381052

+++ What was that? +++
Oh, please run the squishy 5+ Spess Elves into my giant metal monsters backed by radium rifles that can tear down bio-titans FASTER. Much obliged.

(Yes, I know I can't hold a candle to Eldar as a whole, but I suspect that Admech could probably beat them in a troop fight.)

>> No.51381054

>Sonic Dreadnought


>> No.51381057

Hey nids and eldar can do psyker spam also

>> No.51381063

Almost stopped reading at Zagstruk honestly.
You already have 3 fast troops, you don't need stormboys.
Give those goddam tankbustas some squibombs, give the nob a Tankhammer instead of the claw and throw them in a trukk, the battlewagon costs more than they do ffs, you could get TWO 5-tanbkustas units in trukks for the same prce.

>> No.51381066

The real issue isn't "lots of AP 2" per SE, it's that there are weapons like grav and D stuff that are good at everything. Theoretically you should have to make choices and sacrifices when you choose which weapons to bring. Boone complains about Lascannons because their single shot and high cost mean they have obvious weakness against certain targets. GW used to have things in a pretty good spot even when people spammed LasPlas. But new toys have fucked things up.

>> No.51381080

Coming from a Dark Eldar player, of fucking course. Vanguard are great, and pretty too

>> No.51381082

Because marines are the only bs 4 troops right???

>> No.51381095

Very few factions don't have Melta or Plasma equivalents.

>> No.51381108

I legit have never played agaisnt skitarii or any admech armies so yea I have no clue what they're capable of

>> No.51381130

Why thank you. I need to get a whole bunch more, actually, since the 20 I currently had were the first models I ever did so they look a bit shoddy. Once the WarConvo is painted I'll probably go back and touch up them, the Dominus and the Dunecrawler.

>> No.51381148


How many have ALL of it at once?

>> No.51381160

Sounds great. My friend ALWAYS goes for Rangers because he thinks they're better in every way. Shame he'll never take my advice for Vanguard

>> No.51381174


Seems like GW dropped the whole elves hate other factions of elves along time ago. These days it's more like odd relatives coming together when needed. You've got the one that went to school and keeps a schedule really well, the drugged out satanist, and the one that got really into theatre. The other cousin has been living in the wilderness for so long no one's seen him in over a decade.

At the end of the day though, they are all family. Mon-keigh and the other xenos are lesser beings.

>> No.51381181

>The real issue isn't "lots of AP 2" per SE, it's that there are weapons like grav and D stuff that are good at everything.
It's both, honestly. 90% of all low-AP shooting attacks in the game are at least half too cheap. High-Shots of Template low-AP even more so.

>> No.51381194


Easily. Plus, they have more allied factions and optional formations

>> No.51381198

Vanguard guns are S3 Ap- and 18" range, but they are Assault 3 and do 2 wounds on a wound roll of 6, even if they couldn't normally wound the target.

Their dakka power is insane, and they can buff up their BS at any time.

>> No.51381209

Play SoB, you'll see how it is to have an army whose only advantage is their armor. the other advantage, acts of faith, being so ridiculously lame that it's hilarious
And I haven't seen any sisterfag complain about the 3+ save or the AP meta.

>> No.51381219

Sisterfags are busy complaining about needing to spend like 300 dollars on a 500 pt army.

>> No.51381222

18", Assault 3, S3 AP5 with a special rule that means all their to wound rolls of a 6 automatically turn into two wounds, even if they normally couldn't wound the target.

Plus they can boost their BS to 7, then 6, then 5 once per game respectively.

And anyone attacking them loses a point of Toughness. And they have 4+ save and FNP 6+.

And they're relentless.

>> No.51381227

>I am upset that the faction that receives the most attention and has multiple books at any given moment for their sub-factions isn't buffed and pandered too more
>It's only right that everyone else aught to be inferior to us

Just play 30k

>> No.51381241

I want to build Rangers because I think Vanguard look stupid, but they're just so much worse.

This must be how Ork players feel ALL THE TIME.

>> No.51381248

AP5, friend. Drop Misfortune on a Wraithknight or Riptide or something, unload a couple Vanguard squads into it and watch them rage as they for once lose their cheesy snowflake machine to something far cheaper and more stylish.
Sallet helms, hell yes.

>> No.51381252

You mean all 3 of the sisters players? Can we maybe just forget about sisters for the sake of decent argument?

>> No.51381261

if i play my shoota boys as skitareeeeee do you think people will be mad at me?

>> No.51381279

This is a red herring, because melta and plasma basically don't matter when you have grav. There's a reason that nobody takes las-plas anymore.

>> No.51381284

Depends how well you convert them.

>> No.51381298

I feel like even though Deldar will insist on being edgy hedonistic fucks and never stop fucking baby skulls or whatever, given the opprotunity, they'd at least pitch in on an attempt to make the Eldar the dominant universal power again.

After all, they hate the Necrons and think humans are pants on head retarded. Being in a position where they can hang out in real space, develop psykers again and return to the halcyon glory days of Pre-Fall Eldar fuckery, I feel like even the most self absorbed dark eldar would have some interest in doing it, even if they need to coexist with craftworlders.

>> No.51381305

>assault 3
That's the knd of shit I'm talkng about. 3+ armour sounds great until you run into enemy troops that have
>bigger squads
>more shots
>rending or some other bullshit
>cost less than the tac squad to boot

>> No.51381309

Nice, one 'tide down, 5 to go.

>> No.51381338

>The classic units of this army are all shit and the way to be competetive is to use ridiculously broken formations or spam shiny new units that look disgusting
>People complain because they'd rather have the old stuff be viable instead of new stuff directly outclassing it, and want to play the army in a fluffy way instead of just having guardsmen with pauldrons judging by how fast they die
>you're butthurt about that

I'm a marine player and I'd be 100% in favor of putting all marines into one codex and removing the spotlight from them. I just want to able to use footslogging Tacticals and Assault squads again again.

Also 30k marines are weaker than 40k marines, the meta is just better balanced overall.

>> No.51381340

>3+ armour sounds great until you run into an enemy that are better than them.

>> No.51381343

Is Dark Vengeance the best thing to get if I want to play CSM?

>> No.51381345

Nobody runs six riptides.

Six riptides is not even a good WAACfag build.

>> No.51381359

I want to try this. What do you reckon the fluffiest/easiest way to add a psyker to Mechanicus is?

>> No.51381360

>3+ armour sounds great until you run into an enemy that are better than them and cost half their points

>> No.51381361

>4+ save
>all stats are 3 save bs, I,A, and LD
>cost 1 point less than a marine
dont get me wrong, tacs are hot garbage, but the grass is always greener, and min scouts exist

>> No.51381364

>>your only advantage is your superior armour

>> No.51381384

Why cant archons take bikes or hellion boards or jump packs of any kind?

>> No.51381399

Yeah, two units of Vanguard with BS7/6/5 can feasibly wipe an entire marine unit per turn just from the sheer number of rolls they can force.

Small, elite units like terminators come off even worse.

Then there's the whole 3x Assault 3 Plasma Caliver with Prefered Enemy Skitarii Warlord squad shenanigans.

>> No.51381405

Guardians are 9 points, Rangers are 11 and Vanguards are 9.

what the fuck are you talking about?

>> No.51381408


So many space marines in those Cadia releases

>> No.51381411

Someone who is good with numbers wanna do a crunch real quick? Tac squad vs equivalent from every other army? Don't bother including guardians cause we already know they win.

>muh 4 stats
>muh 3+
None of that matters on the table top, marines are shit

>> No.51381414

In a Butcherhorde. Don't bother giving them any other upgrades besides the Mark of Khorne and some meltaguns and accept that 25 S5 attacks on the charge for 100 points is pretty solid overall, especially when you get a free 2d6 move and re-roll charge distance.

>> No.51381415

Because those are only for the street gangs/gladiators/mercenaries.

It is impossible for a Kabal to actually buy one for use by their own members, let alone an archon. It would be against the Codex Elfstartes

>> No.51381423

>Can we maybe just forget about that hole in the argument so I can keep acting like a victim?

>> No.51381429

The fuck have guardians got to do with anything?

>> No.51381431

True, most of them capped at 5.

ctrl+f riptide

>> No.51381439


It depends on how the rule is written. That kind of thing was mostly used before detachments became a thing so they say 'army' which means it affects your entire force. Anything written after detachments were introduced probably says 'detachment', but you need to check the rule. Also, using it the first way without your opponent's permission is probably being a dick and your next codex is likely going to remove the option of moving stuff to a new battlefield role in favour of formations allowing you to take more of a unit without the usual troops and hq.

It's actually one of the better units in the codex, so probably not more than 5 points overcosted at the moment. Although virtually any unit that you can put in it is overcosted by at least 10 points.

Bolt Action infantry are nice and small, which makes your marines look appropriately sized next to them but still 'heroic scale'. The nazi ones are a decent match for some of the older chaos artwork. Just need to give them the usual spikes, swap the weapons for something more high-tech, etc.

Frostgrave cultists look fucking fantasic, but need shooty weapons, although you will need to find them for pretty much anyone you choose.

Wargames Factory do some greatcoat guys who actually come with space weapons, but they are kind of stumpy-legged, even compared to GW. Possibly a good choice to mix and match with the frostgrave cultists, as they have a lot of spare guns.

WF also do some modern day / post-apocalypse 'survivors', but they are pricey and apart from the bike gang look a bit too current to blend in to the 40k setting without significant conversion work.

You realise that marines are way more survivable than those ~5 point troop choices, right? Yes, they die to high-strength, low-ap weapons, but those usually cost a lot of points. They just get used a lot because people playing orks, guard, etc. are relatively rare.

>> No.51381443

We talking barebones?

>> No.51381444

I have honestly no idea what unit you're referring to in

>> No.51381447

How many?

>> No.51381452


There are 3 squigbombs.


>> No.51381462


Play a space marine army before you talk faggot. Your 6 point models may suck but at least they're only 6 points. Try picking up 14, 20, and 35 point models off the table with no save allowed

It's like you dumb faggots hate marines so much you don't even notice the tau and Eldar actually ruining the game

>> No.51381466

points equivalent

>> No.51381472

Reminder that tyranid warriors equipped for close combat cost 50 points per model.

>> No.51381479

Were not even talking about tau and eldar. We are talking about Ap2 and 3+ saves

>> No.51381488

Sure, guess i can scavenge my old VS riptide spreadsheet.

>> No.51381498

Well, the two twin-linked Kataphron Destroyer squads (Also troops, and now sometimes BS6 because Cawl) can probably handle another 2 with buffs, Cawl himself can slowly kill another one if he can reach melee or drop a -1T on it and melta, my Kastelans can back one into a corner and steal it's lunch money while pelting it with S6 that can light it up for the Kataphrons and the Knight Warden can do much the same thing and then run about smacking any that haven't died yet in the face.
Infiltrators can horribly bully some marker drones and feel sidelined, Ruststalkers can gleefully Zealot into one and shave a few woulds off before dying and the Dragoons can tarpit the fuck out of them as they have to slowly smash through a 2HP 45pt walker that they hit on a 5.

Only problem is reaching them, but hopefully we will soon have Land Raider equivalents mounting Grav and AP3 torrent and Dune Trains of glorious 145 pts.


Personally I throw in a couple Inquisitors, since Coteaz fixes a lot of problems and an Ordo Xenos with grenades makes a nice addition to a countercharge Sicarian squad.

I do kind of want to make some brain-in-a-jar Magi or something for a cool fluffy Librarius Conclave, but that would be a bit of a dick move.

>> No.51381501

No, vanilla marines are ruining the game too. It's just that they're doing so with Gravspam and busted formations.

The only difference between Marines, Eldar, and Tau is that it's actually possible to build a shitty Space Marine list.

>> No.51381507


Eldar and daemons have more tops than vanilla. I like how you faglords say marine when you mean vanilla only when talking about cheese but when talking about releases suddenly even GK and DW and even fucking CSM count.

>> No.51381508

Reminder that tyranid warriors are hot garbage all the time

>> No.51381519


well seeing as guardians have a 5+, and vangaurd are 3 points less than a marine, so take a guess.

though vangaurd also would follow what i said, save a different point cost

>> No.51381525

Back home, we call that moving goalposts.
The size of the SoB's playerbase isn't relevant to this argument.Unless you think marines should get more advantages because they're the most played of all armies, but deep down I know you're not that kind of faggot.

>> No.51381534

they didnt used to be
they didnt, used to be

>> No.51381540

Siege of Vraks supplement allows you to take as many as you want, same supplement you get the Ordnance Tyrant

>> No.51381550

shooting or melee, if melee who gets the charge, what chapter marines?

each option is a full double array vs 15 different enemies.

>> No.51381552

Anon i'm a new tyranid player and i already feel like im a spong for pain for playing a swarmy army

>> No.51381557

Grav weaponry was a mistake.

>> No.51381561


Which both those armies feature in droves

>> No.51381574

Yes. A problem exacerbated by the fact that their default equipment is trash and you need to buy upgrades for them to do anything at all yet they already cost 30 points base, for a troops choice.

>> No.51381589

my first army was nids. Can you imagine going from upper-mid teir to what we have now

>> No.51381595


Pretty much everything right now in 40k is a mistake. We haven't had anything BUT mistakes since 6th edition.

>> No.51381598

Oh and do IG/miltemp/Skitarii get orders?

>> No.51381603

For the charge thing, just give both sides half an attack, that should balance things out, no?

>> No.51381625

>I can't remember the last time Warriors were actually really worth using, except maybe a brief segment of 6e when Nids got BRB psychic powers and you could give them Endurance or so.

5th ed? Slow anti-infantry in a game of mass light mech.

4th ed? Nidzilla, you took Carnifex Elites. Maybe 3rd ed? Except you cared more about mass rending and the odd weapon beast here and there. And back then they had 2 wounds and couldn't even take Power Weapons.

>> No.51381631

Furious charge disagrees.

>> No.51381638

I was more trying to make a south park joke because sisters are so irrelevant to any conversation about warhammer.

>can we just forget about the gelgameks for a minute please

>> No.51381655

Skitarii get Doctrina Imperatives which fuck about with their BS/WS states.

>> No.51381661

Yeah, because a Crisis will roll to save on something that allows no save on a MEQ.
Or like termies are overpriced compared to the 2+ choices in other armies.

>> No.51381712

The problem isn't that marines die to high str low ap (str 6 ap 3 is hardly difficult to get btw) it's that they get out shot by fuckng everyone. Even gaunts with flesh borers can get 60+ shots from one squad, anything with high numbers will also destroy marines through averages. Plus all the fuckng rending I n the game now, it's ridiculous.

>> No.51381722

Oh in that case yes, but generally?

>> No.51381726

Meh, haven't built an orks list with the online builder yet, expected them to be on models wargear.

>> No.51381758

This, play a marine army and you will understand why we all have to resort to grav spam and bikers, it's the only way to fuckng compete

>> No.51381788

No. The best thing to buy for a new CSM player is a couple of Desolator Squads, their Armored Assault Box. That will gives you dudes and transporta for the CSM in your Chaos Warband as well as more dudes to convert into Havocs and potentially Chosen. Normal CSM + Forgeworld weapon packs are the best way to do Havocs these days.

>> No.51381795


>> No.51381823

Most of them. And generally if their missing something it's only one. Plus those are completely arbitrary. Tau have neither psykers nor standard BS 4 and still do JUST fine.

>> No.51381894

>Armor saves don't mean anything thanks to more powerful shooting...
That 'more powerful shooting' isn't free. It's just used as much as possible because 3+ save models are so fucking efficient that everyone takes them. Just look at some of the hideous shit which a force optimised against hordes can use; have you seen how fucking cheap whirlwinds are.

>Of course ignores cover, instant death, and things that ignore invuln saves are only getting more common.

Ignores cover is fucking rare on anything AP 3 and all that shit affects everyone except marines more.

>...can load up on more special weapons point-to-point.

Special weapons are only desirable because they are one of the few things that go through 3+ saves. Plasma guns cost more than a marine to turn a guardsman into something that can almost kill marines as fast as a marine with a boltgun can kill guardsmen.

>Remember when Marine Infantry didn't give free Razorbacks? Nobody used them, everything was scouts or bikes.
Yeah, because the fact other units in your codex are overpowered totally proves that the rest is weak.

>It takes 600 points of free shit and global rerolls to make marines on foot good

No, it takes that much free shit to make them as overpowered as every other option they have and allow marines players to continue dominating the entire game.

>Two HWTs have twice as many wounds...
But effectively no armour and low T, making them easy to wipe out with any set-up optimised against them.

>...greater range...
...and no ability to survive if assaulted.

>...will kill most tanks more reliably...
And the grav devastators will kill heavy infantry and monstrous creatures better, which is far more useful in the current metagame.

>...while sitting in a comfortable cover save on an objective

Holding an objective in your own deployment zone isn't difficult. Being troops doesn't help, because OS only matters when the enemy are close and the guard are dead anyway.

>> No.51381895


GW doesn't want Archons to be able to turn into godlike marine slayers.

>> No.51381953

Say it with me.


>> No.51382001

ive got
>2 archons
>4 raiders
>20 kabalites
>20 wyches
>6 incubi
>1 venom
>24 reavers
>1 ravager
>various archon court models

Anything else I need?

>> No.51382009

Look in the siege of Vraks book if you want to spam plague zombies. There's a slightly different army list in that one.

>> No.51382029

oh, i forgot, also have a Tantalus

>> No.51382231

>A 3 up save in a meta of firepower that ignores that save is nothing more than a shitty consolation prize.
> that advantage gets taken away



>Try picking up 14, 20, and 35 point models off the table with no save allowed
I pay 15 points for burna boyz and lootas which have 6+ saves and barely more offensive capability than a marine. Marine players complained that they were overpowered, while wiping them off the board with whirlwinds. Fuck you and fuck your codex.

>(str 6 ap 3 is hardly difficult to get btw)
Really? What's the cheapest option that gives that and how does it compare to something with say S 4 AP 5 in terms of availability. What army has S 6 AP 3 guns with 24" range on 15 point troops?

>> No.51382633

SoB pay 2 pts/model less for basically the same troops, get twice as many special weapons, and ride in Razorbacks that have a Twin-Linked gun, Invulnerable save, double the transport capacity, and cost 15 points less. They've got a lot going for them apart from the 3+ save.

That said, 3+ armor really does make a difference, mainly in the fact that it's basically impossible to take meaningful numbers of AP3 templates. Apart from Land Raiders, Heldrakes, Super Heavies, and a certain incredibly cheesy Eldar unit that I'd prefer to pretend doesn't exist, there's not really anything that can wipe entire Power Armored units off the table with no saves allowed. Single target weapons like Plasma and Melta Guns are far less scary to AP3 models than Heavy Flamers are to AP4.

>> No.51383191


>SoB pay 2 pts/model less for basically the same troops
WS/I3/S3 means melee is almost never an option unless we want to tarpit with out 3+ saves. We're either S4 Ap2 with an Axe, S6 Ap4 with a mace, or S6Ap2 with a Chainfist, which was taken away from everyone but the canoness because reasons. T3 means we take a lot more wounds and thus a lot more saves than Marines against basic weaponry. The the difference there becomes less apparent against Grav/Plasma, which is more of a problem with the abundance of those weapons than the units themselves. Oh, there's also the whole ATSKNF thing.

>get twice as many special weapons, and ride in Razorbacks that have a Twin-Linked gun, Invulnerable save, double the transport capacity, and cost 15 points less. They've got a lot going for them apart from the 3+ save.

For starters, Immolators don't have twice the capacity. They carry 6 models, which is a minimum squad plus an IC if we want one. Second, their weapons are twin linked, but limited to a Heavy Flamer (which isn't fast), Heavy Bolter (yay?), or Multi-Melta. Third, they have a 6+ invulnerable save, which is not something you can rely on ever. However, immolators are good because they also have a firing point.

The fact that we get 2 weapons is a new thing to this Codex. Before, we were limited to 10 model minimum per squad, which was bad because that meant troops had to go in rhinos. Even with getting 2 weapons at 5, we still don't take many vanilla troops. Dominions get 4 specials, Retributers get 4 Heavies, and now we get command squads for our only source of combi-plasma, which cost the same as space Marines base.

We don't get drop pods, we don't get grav, we don't get long range power, we don't get tough units, we don't get Deathstars, we don't get psykers, we don't get jet bikes, we don't get high volume of S6/7 shots, but what we do get, we get a lot of.

We get melta, we get immolators, we get T3 bodies with a 3+ save.

>> No.51383498

Hi tg 100% new to 40k and I can't decide between a skitarii force w sob allies or elder corsairs, help a scrub. Has to be one or the other though as I'm p enthusiastic about both

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