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[ERROR] No.51178710 [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

The Emperor protects edition.

>previous thread
>>51174272

>List builder with nice pictures and shitty point values STOP FUCKING ASKING
https://webapplications-webroster.rhcloud.com/rc/web/#/rosterCreator

>Freshest Rules in Epub (Use Readium for PC or Kobo on Android)
https://mega.nz/#F!Wl5DAbCb!TYxZG4CgX_x-NJu7JBwbZQ!2tgBUTYI

>Not always current PDFs:
https://mega.nz/#F!BxI1HSgI!0tKymKh9RZTzGpgIA5EyCg
https://mega.nz/#F!pFgm0RKR!J06C1gVYcjzNGsF8YNLsjQ

>Up to date FAQs
https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Rules-Errata

>40K 7th Edition Quick Reference Sheets:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4104995/Games/7edRef.pdf

>Forge World Book Index:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/wiki/en/Forge_World_and_Apocalypse_Rules_Index

>The Black Library
https://mega.nz/#F!wx4BiKhD!YhnAf1BqSmAB8dO6xDM56Q!c4pGAJDb

>> No.51178755

>>51178710
First for the Dark Eldar! First for getting Commorekt!

>> No.51178756

>>51178710
Imperium sucks lmao

>> No.51178763

>>51178710
First for adorable Maulerfiends.

Look at him go!

>> No.51178776

>>51178763
The little mauler that could.

>> No.51178778

>>51178755
>>51178756
>tfw only I3 and 4 attacks on the charge
At least Maulerfiends are cute.

>> No.51178779

r8

>> No.51178787

>>51178763
Blood Pact did nothing wrong

>> No.51178794

>>51178710
http://www.strawpoll.me/12095750

http://www.strawpoll.me/12095750

http://www.strawpoll.me/12095750

http://www.strawpoll.me/12095750

Best strawpoll, spelling mistakes corrected, armies ripped from gw's site

>> No.51178798

Continuing with homebrew Sisters unit discussion from the previous thread

>>51178622
Seems good, although I think the Repentia would need to be more expensive depending on what sort of Shield they were given.

Right now it's looking like:

Judgement Heavy Weapon Team
2 Sisters in a team with 2 wounds, Avenger Mega Bolter, 45 points
Add up to two more teams for 45 each
Add up to 6 Acolytes for 5 points each
Add up to 3 Repentia with 5++ invuln (Brute shields) for ~8 points each.

An acolyte can spend their shooting to give one HWT rerolls of 1 for the turn.
Repentia can LoS for the heavy weapon team.

>> No.51178800

>>51178778
At least you can have them charge anything you want if you take the Butcherhorde Detachment.

>> No.51178805

>>51178787
>78787
>Khorne for IG
>Nurgle for CSM
>they know

>> No.51178812

>>51178779
too many berzerkers, not enough bikers or doggos

would not walk out of 10

>> No.51178815

>>51178794
I'm not taking you seriously until you call it the Imperial Guard.

>> No.51178822

>>51178787
>ranged Khornates
Nah.

>> No.51178823

>>51178815
post a picture of the front of your codex

>> No.51178826

>>51178794
>renegade knights a faction
wut

>> No.51178828

>>51178800
>tfw play KdK
That's a WE detachment, isn't it?

But I am Word Bearer at heart. Lorgar will double smite me for doing so. Already a smiting is deserved for favoring Khorne!

>> No.51178831

I can't wait for the day geedubs releases an updated guardsmen sprue and I can buy 500 old style Cadians on eBay for 50 bucks. Sure they won't look as cool as the new ones but I will finally be able to drown my enemies in guardsmen without selling my internal organs.

>> No.51178846

>>51178826
I went with what GW lists on their site, reading the factions I can already tell that they're gearing up for age of the emperor

Seriously, read the army names for 40k and then go look at age of sigmar, same philosophy.

Every "faction" is going to be an "army" no matter how small

>> No.51178847

>>51178815
>I'm not taking you seriously until you call it the Imperial Guard.
>people thing "astartes" is cool
>but "astra militarum" is dumb for some reason?
>!notLatin for "Military of Space"
>just like how their elite buddies are !notLatin for "Storm Military" aka "Stormtroopers"

>> No.51178857

>>51178794
>http://www.strawpoll.me/12095750
>Ordinary humans winning the day once again
>Fuck yeah

Also rename it to Imperial Guard you faggot, this is /tg/ not fucking Reddit.

>> No.51178858

So any TS-fags used Ahrimans formation yet? Or even come up with a good way to use it on the table?

950 points upgraded, more with relics, just seems like it'll never get its points back.

Back they look so good :(

>> No.51178859

>>51178822
I said it last thread, they don't have enforcers. FW renegades were not based on them. Hate on the neo-nazi, not them.
>Khorne too single minded and bloodthirsty for ranged
>what are butchers nails
>Khorne guardmen have them too, right?

>> No.51178867

>>51178822
khorne cares not from whence the blood flows

do you think he really cares how it was spilled either?

>> No.51178874

What's the largest game you've ever played?
Pic related is from our 40k point(per side) Apoc game on Saturday. We started at noon and called it quits on turn 3 at 4AM on Sunday. My team(Right side) lost by 2 kill points. We all unanimously agreed "never again" for a match that big. Maybe 20k points next time.

P.S. Fuck the Infernal Tetrad. Shit's nuts.

>> No.51178877

>>51178828
Lorgar isn't gonna do shit, he's too busy sucking his own dick on sickarus while we World Eaters are the only legion actually getting shit done.

And Black Legion doesn't count because Cawl deleting system 32 isn't a victory.

>> No.51178881

>think about friends long gone that used to play back in 5th
>closest friend played CSM since 3rd
>Emperors Children
>another close friend played Space Wolves
>fast forward to now
>shop is long closed
>haven't seen either in years
>grabbed the HH boxes for cheap
>making them NL because my friend always joked about the batmans
>the leader will use the SW claw from the BoP hero that he claimed as a prize

Memory of those days will live on.

>> No.51178885

>>51178858
>950 point
>For 4 sorcerors

Hnnnnng that's fucking expensive.

>> No.51178889

>>51178859
I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic there, but the Nails are WE only?

>>51178867
If a Wizard did it it doesn't count!

>> No.51178893

>>51178857
>Also rename it to Imperial Guard you faggot, this is /tg/ not fucking Reddit.

I will as soon as you show me the front of your codex (hint it says ASTRA MILITARUM)

>> No.51178894

>>51178798
I'd play that.

>> No.51178897

>>51178822
?

>> No.51178905

>>51178874
Dat unpainted Heirophant

>Drop $1000 on a piece of plastic
>Nah lol painting is hard

>> No.51178907

>>51178893
Do you know what it says on page 1? THE IMPERIAL GUARD.

Poncey High Gothic git.

>> No.51178909

>>51178885
three level 3 sorcerers and one level 4 sorcerer

that's 13+d6 warp charges, with spell familiars zipping around

>> No.51178914

>orks are a melee race
>I2
>bs2
>str 3
>6+

>> No.51178916

>>51178894
Glad you approve. I always have a really fun time homebrewing ideas for sisters units. There's a lot of untapped potential there.

>> No.51178920

>>51178779
>>51178822

>>thread begins with subtle, gradual ploy to rehash old but successful bait by walkers-aren't-vehicles anon

Back to painting I go. Good hunting, dudebro.

>> No.51178925

>>51178905
He got it after Christmas and assembled it just in time for the match.

>> No.51178926

>>51178877
Aren't the WB actually doing things and gathering powerful relics, while the WE are split up into many fragments that Angron gets angry trying to collect them all again?

>>51178897
Better version of it that can be taken in a Trinity of Blood to make it pretty decent.

>> No.51178931

>>51178859
What are you even talking about? You don't need the butcher's to fight in melee.

>>51178867
Every single bit of Khorne fluff says he favours melee over ranged. And for the 88888888th time he doesn't care about which FACTION gets it's blood spilled, not HOW it's spilled,

>> No.51178933

>>51178905
I assure you if it was given a shitty airbrush paint job people would be triggered harder

>> No.51178941

sharing a thing i found today

>> No.51178949

>>51178779
8/8.

You could increase this perfect score by finding a way to add Kharn.

>> No.51178951

>>51178920
I don't see it?

>> No.51178961

>>51178925
Fuck I wish I got a titan for christmas.

>> No.51178963

>>51178907
I wasn't aware page 1 was the cover

>> No.51178967

>>51178889
I think anon is implying that the mindless, ravening psychopathy we see in most Khornate Berzerkers (typically World Eaters) has more to do with their janky ass augmentations than their Chaos creed

>> No.51178971

>>51178779
Not enough Maulerfiends, though that's not your fault since you can never have enough Maulerfiends.

>> No.51178980

>>51178941
why doesn't she have a nose, is this tumlblr

>> No.51178981

>>51178963
Wow what a clever response.

>> No.51178990

>>51178920
>implying it's bait
It's literally stated in the rulebook, faggot.

>>51178926
Dominon of Fire. Doombreed's Crusade. Cholerecaust Blood Crusade. First War for Armageddon.

All of the above got the Imperium THIS close to getting destroyed by a single Legion, only getting saved by Deus Ex Machina every single time.

Only plot armor can halt Khorne's sacred destroyers.

>> No.51178994

>>51178916
Yeah, I bet you want to tap that potential, anon.

>> No.51178996

>>51178794
Why so many imperial guard players? It's an awesome army, but I've only ever met one person who actually plays them.

>> No.51179001

>>51178889
Tzeentch thwarts your attempts to shut me up through numbers.
I was implying you thought all Khorne are melee only, as the "mainstream" portrayal of his followers in 40k are Berserkers only who are compelled to be bloodthirsty fuck due to their butchers nails.

Which the Pact obviously lack. Therefore they have the minds and spatial awareness to use ranged weapons. Doesn't mean they don't approve of a bit of the old rip and tear every now and then, but Khorne and his followers ain't a one-trick pony, anon.

>yfw Gore Mages

>> No.51179002

>>51178951
>>51178836
>>51178758
run

>> No.51179003

>>51178996
I think it's a meme because cadia blew up

>> No.51179042

>>51179001
I'm the anon you originally replied to, and Gore Mages only do utility shit like bringing Daemons to reality, opening portals, etc.

Using psychic powers in combat is still forbidden. Kill all psykers.

>> No.51179056

>>51178885
Hell yeah it is. The only idea I've had that might work is first turn charging by soulswitching with infiltrated blue horrors. But as points go up there more and more chance of getting tabled by their first turn =(.

>>51178909
Any ideas on how to actually use it them though?

>> No.51179063

>>51179042
>the dam in the black lace dress does more witchery than that, son :^)

>> No.51179076

>>51178990
Huh, interesting!

>>51179001
I'm not the same anon you replied to previously, I was just commenting on your post. Besides, I run two CSM squads in my KdK warband with double meltaguns, icon of wrath, 9 CCWs, and power sword on my aspiring champion for challenges. Once they all get out of their Rhino with Dozer Blade and Havic Launcher, they take a turn to lay waste to any who stand before them, then charge and wipe out the rest because not being able to charge from Rhinos makes me sad.

>> No.51179083

>>51179063
?

>> No.51179084

>>51179003
No, there's always been a lot of IG players on here.

>> No.51179092

>>51178941
I just found some Rhino art for my EC army

>> No.51179094

Why do IG formations fucking suck?

>> No.51179097

>>51178941
...Source?

For science of course.

>> No.51179113

>>51179001
Don't forget the Teeth of Khorne (Heavy Bolter packing Havoc's)

>> No.51179119

>>51178926
Two questions: if I buy that from FW, do I only get the legs or do I get the rest of the bits as well?
Why do those chickenlegs look so bad?

>> No.51179123

>>51179113
Old retconned fluff. All World Eaters are Berzerkers as of the Traitor Legions book.

>> No.51179130

>>51179001
But only WE have the Nails?

Besides, you don't need the Nails to go into a Khornate Blood Rage or to become a Berzerker. Sometimes you just need to go insane from bloodlust.

>> No.51179138

>>51179083
>Only In Death
>Blood Pact
The dam in the black lace dress in those two books is most definitely a psyker anon.

>> No.51179141

>>51178980
>why doesn't she have a nose, is this tumlblr
no idea.
>>51179092
>I just found some Rhino art for my EC army
i want pics after you do it.
>>51179097
>...Source?
>
>For science of course.
pic related.. it was on facebook 30k page..

>> No.51179163

>>51179119
You get the legs and the top half, rather than the train lower half. It's actually cheaper to get the Kytan than the Lord of Skulls.

But seriously, Kytans in a Trinity of Blood sounds so awesome.

https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/resources/PDF/Datasheets/Kytan.pdf

>> No.51179173

Any army pics /tg/? That and what hobbying have you all been up to?
I'm right now trying to figure out how I'm going to convert some Pistollers into Rough Riders so if anyone had tips that would be the shit.
Any other Guardbros in the thread? Or am I the only one holding the line? And give me some feedback on the image size anons. I want to make sure it isn't too blurry.

>> No.51179174

>>51179119
You get the whole model. I think it looks iffy because where the knee is, is an additional joint.

>> No.51179182

>>51179138
Haven't read them, sorry. Though BL is known for canon rape.

>>51179130
>An individual bearing the Mark of Khorne is imbued with a portion of his patron's battle rage - he becomes even more ferocious in close combat and loses all sense of fear or self-restraint. Khornate warriors tend to eshew ranged combat in favour of slaughtering foes at close quarters with axes and blades. Often the skull rune of Khorne is branded or otherwise etched on the bearer's flesh. Amongst the most feared bearers of this mark are the Berserkers of the World Eaters.

>> No.51179185

>>51178916

I love brewing, too, like the Biker sisters that made it into that fandex.

>> No.51179187

>Creed stands alone on the ruined surface of Cadia. He sees a metal giant in a scaled cloak in front of him, hand outstretched. "Ursurkar E. Creed - This is not your end. Eternity Awaits"....

What did he mean by this?

>> No.51179191

>>51179141
Will do, but I need to buy the Rhinos first.

>> No.51179198

>>51179187
Gotta catch em' all!

>> No.51179202

>>51179130
sigh
>World Eaters
>aggressive by nature, martial, gladiatorial
>butchers nails + khorne worship
>becomes Berserker

>all other Khorne followers follow this same pattern because that's how I think

>> No.51179230

>>51179187
They're gettin the band back together.

>> No.51179236

>>51179173
Holy crap, he actually resized the image!

>>51179174
Tbqh I love it and would get three, but won't because Trinity of Blood isn't a KdK applicable formation, and I need to finish my actual army first.

>>51179182
I'm not sure what you mean by this?

>>51179187
Pok├ęballed.

>>51179202
Well, yeah, I get that bit, but the second bit isn't that true, I don't think. Lemme go check my codex.

>> No.51179240

>>51179185
I worked on some biker sisters myself. Gave them Hit & Run with Melta Lances, if I recall.

My only regret is that I'm nowhere near good enough at conversions to make most of the things I came up with.

>> No.51179241

>>51179182
>all followers of Khorne have the mark
>lexicanum, for all your lore needs

>BL is known for canon rape
It sure is, doesn't stop it from being fun/believable and narrative-forging.

Blood Pact are neato in the extreme

>> No.51179244

>>51179163
what is better a kytan or chaos knight?

>> No.51179292

Huh, all Berzerkers get the Nails, or something like them.

>>51179244
I dunno.

https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/resources/fw_site/fw_pdfs/Warhammer_40000/Chaos_Knight.pdf

Also, how do I into Mathhammer?

>> No.51179319

>>51179292
your ability to discern context from reading sucks ass.

>> No.51179357

>>51179292
reason i asked was i got an imperial knight as a late xmas gift. thinking of chaosing it up.

that or selling it. dunno if i want to do 3 more (one for each god)

>> No.51179360

>>51179319
Indeed. I am very tired right now, actually.

>> No.51179363

>>51178980
>why doesn't she have a nose
Are you serious?

>> No.51179368

>>51179357
chaos knights are like 200 points less than a kytan

>> No.51179374

Why the fuck are there two codex entries for each unit? It never ceases to fuck me off having to flip back and forward to read shit about the same unit. Why not all just on one page? I seem to remember my 4e Tyranid codex was like that.

>> No.51179377

>>51179240

I just went with power lances and HnR I think. There was something else, too. Maybe a combat shield.

>> No.51179384

>>51179363
>these garbage shit daemonettes are the baseline for all daemonettes

cool, I take it you're too young to remember any other sculpts?

>> No.51179387

>>51179357
Well, there's Renegade Knights in Traitor Legions(?), and FW Chaos Knights. They have different options, so I'd look at the Renegade Knight rules as well.

But at a very tired glance, Chaos Knights are better than Kytans just for points costs and special abilities. That, and no one's going to run a Trinity of Blood, ever.

>> No.51179410

>>51179374
Yeah, I was thinking about that earlier. Why not condense the codex by having it all in one spot? HQ section has your Space Marine captain with page of fluff and art, then on the next page is his stats and rules and options? Something like that, maybe.

>> No.51179411

>>51179384
As far as 4chan is concerned yes. 2nd. ed. Crab-nettes are too old to get fanart on the internet.

>> No.51179413

>>51178874

Tetrad looks beast makes me want to play daemons

>> No.51179421

>>51179173
Fellow Guarder here. Trying to make lists with what I have painted for tomorrow and Saturday. These are the two I came up with. I want to run all kinds of big lists, but I have a lot more painting left to do so it will probably be 1k games for a little bit.

I wish I had some advice on the Rough Riders bit. My plan was to use Scout bikers and maybe add Guardsmen heads/bodies or maybe Scion heads to be Rough Riders.

>> No.51179423

>>51179357
Just use it as a Renegade bro

>> No.51179426

>>51179387
thanks. i've heard good things about a chaos knight with mark of tzeench and near a greater demon of tzench with robes and cursed earth.

>> No.51179435

>>51179241
They are, but they don't really feel like a Khornate force, and by all means they shouldn't be.

>this is how a Khorneist looks like

>> No.51179436

>>51178874
what's the point on playing games like this

your units are all boxed in by one another, you just filled your deployment zone

it's like you wanted to play tetris instead of 40k

>> No.51179438

How are Skitarii Hoplites and Peltasts? Are they pure Forgeworld Shite or actually worth investing into?

>> No.51179439

>>51179423
>Just use it as a Renegade bro
i was thinknig of ordering upgrade kit off ebay to turn it into a chaos one.

>> No.51179452

>>51179438
>muh Skitarii
Shit taste.

>> No.51179456

>>51178826
Renegade knights are faction.
In BC Traitors Hand you have their detatchment. 1-3 LoW(renegate knight) and it can't be your primary detatchment.

>> No.51179468

>>51179435
I love the cover to the KdK codex.

>>51179438
Peltasts are really good and Hoplites are pretty okay, iirc

>> No.51179471

>>51179413
Dude, I swear, they're fucking UNKILLABLE. I think throughout the entire thing, the Daemon Prince of Nurgle took 1 wound. I managed to bring down Kairos with the 3 remaining D missiles on my Stormsurge. I got lucky and scored 7 markerlights out of like 20 while he was flying. I got even luckier when I managed to make the Daemons player roll two 1's in a row, a statistical impossibility for him because he always rolls so fucking well.

>>51179436
To see all our armies on the table at the same time. Sure it's a clusterfuck, but some hilarious shit came out of it. Like my Draigo being turned into a Herald of Tzeentch because the nearby Flyrant fucked my LD and I was forced to roll 3d6 for LD because of Warpstorm. I failed spectacularly.

>> No.51179486

Looking for input on an 1850 Death Guard CSM list. All models come with VotLW for free so I didn't include it in descriptions. What could I drop for 2 rhinos?

CSM 1831 points

Lord of the Death Guard Legion

Daemon Prince of Nurgle (1) - 335pts
Psyker (Mastery Level 3),The Black Mace,Daemonic flight,Spell familiar

Vectorium

Spawn

Chaos Spawn (1) - 36pts Mark of Nurgle

Chaos Warband

Chaos Lord (1) - 165pts
Puscleaver,Power fist,Chaos bike,Mark of Nurgle,Blight grenades,Sigil of corruption

Chaos Space Marines (5) - 110pts Mark of Nurgle
Combi-melta, Meltagun

Chaos Space Marines (5) - 110pts Mark of Nurgle
Combi-melta, Meltagun

Chaos Terminators (3) - 130pts Mark of Nurgle
Combi-melta(3), Power axes

Chaos Bikers (10) - 305pts Mark of Nurgle
Combi-melta, Melta bombs,Meltagun(2),

Havocs (5) - 130pts Mark of Nurgle
Autocannon(4)

Cyclopia Cabal

Sorcerer - 170pts
Chaos bike,Psyker (Mastery Level 3),Spell familiar,Sigil of corruption

Sorcerer - 170pts
Chaos bike,Psyker (Mastery Level 3),Spell familiar,Sigil of corruption

Sorcerer - 170pts
Chaos bike,Psyker (Mastery Level 3),Spell familiar,Sigil of corruption

>> No.51179527

Im fucking scared of GW trying to "advance the story", I can bet that the Emprah will die, and it will be another "chaos wins because grimdark lol".
t. Concerned IGfag

>> No.51179532

Help Requested: I'm trying to make an Ork list and I don't know whether to 1) grab a load of boyz and throw them in trukks 2) grab even more boyz and make them walk or 3) generally ignore the boyz, grab grots and spend the points elsewhere

>> No.51179539

>>51179292
>Also, how do I into Mathhammer?
Learn probability and statistics

Dice aren't hard

>> No.51179546

>>51179532
I should say that this is all leading up to eventually getting a Stompa, because I just really want a Stompa.

>> No.51179553

>>51179527
No one is going to win because they're not going to end their cash cow setting

>> No.51179559

Anons, how do I into Mathhamner and probabilities and stuff? I just don't know how it works, and I've always been terrible at math.

>>51179539
I was about to ask the same question as anon.

>> No.51179566

>>51179559
>>51179539
>>51179292
http://www.dakkadakka.com/wiki/en/Basics_of_Mathhammer

>> No.51179569

>>51179421
You need to drop a guy from each of those infantry squads with heavy weapons im pretty sure. Don't you have to drop two guys for the heavy weapon?

>> No.51179578

>>51179553
>Cadia falling
>All the implying that the Golden Throne is failing
>Nids going straight for Terra

Don't bullshit me like that, its gonna be the second AoS.

>> No.51179580

>>51179435
>this is how all khornates should look
t. you

>> No.51179582

>>51179546
Boyz on foot. Trukks are never going to be worth it in the end. They're free VP. I also advocate grot hordes to screen your footsloggers.

Also, Meganobz. Take as many as you can get. You won't hate yourself.

>> No.51179588

>>51179486
What could I drop for 2 rhinos?
DP Mastery levels.

>> No.51179600

>>51179582
>Meganobz
R-really? They just look like terminators without invuln saves, I had thought about skipping them entirely.

>> No.51179603

>>51179527
push and pull. chaos gets some wins but is ultimately unable to finish off the emperor. chaos will expand the eye but we'll see abaddon or someone mess up

we also learned something from this latest campaign book; abaddon can't help but do smack talk

>> No.51179606

Who could this be? Vect himself or an Incubi bodyguard of his?

>> No.51179613

>You'll never get an adeptus arbites army
>There will never be a hive ganger army for me to fight against

Kill me.

>> No.51179621

>>51179569
You do have to form 2 men into a single model, yes. You know, I always thought the list builder was the problem, but you just made me realize something. When I form a heavy weapon team, I have to delete one of the men from the squad in the list builder. I always thought it priced the Autocannons 5 points too much, but now I see it's that it doesn't account for the fact that 2 models become 1, so I have the extra 5 points from a Guardsmen. Thank you for essentially explaining that to me. I never would have figured that out since I just made a mental note that Autocannons were 5 more points than they should have been.

>> No.51179623

>>51179559
It's just a bunch of basic fractions.

If I have a weapon that hits on 4+, it hits on 4, 5, or 6 out of a sample size of 6. 3/6 = 1/2 or 0.5 chance to hit. If it then Wounds on a 5+, that's 1/3 chance to Wound. Multiply the first and the second to get the chance for a successful Hit then successful Wound, in this case 1/6. And so on.

When you have re-rolls just break the 6 into 36 to account for the first result multiplied by the second result, so for example a 5+ with re-rolls is 2x6 (because if the first result is 5 or 6 then all 6 results of the second die don't matter) + the number of failures of the first times the successes of the second, or 4x2 (in other words, rolling a 1, 2, 3, or 4 followed by a 5 or 6 on the second attempt), so you get 12+8 over 36 = 20/36, or 0.55 chance.

>> No.51179624

>>51179578
Pretty sure they'll just handwave it away

>Cadia fallen? K we'll just throw more ships and men at chaos
>DE fixed that throne for you in return for not going exterminatus on Commoragh/Billions of prisoners/Harlequins said so/fun/lulz
>Nids get BTFO by some stupid plot shit like how that inquistor infected the norn queen with a virus or some shit

>> No.51179638

>>51179606
It's already been stated a million times who that guy is.

Read Fall of Cadia.

>> No.51179650

>>51179606
New character

>> No.51179676

>>51179606

\What gets me is how the fuck are the black templars not tearing this dude a new asshole.

>> No.51179687

>>51179676
Because he just saved their fucking lives from being reamed by Chaos and they're following Cawl's orders.

>> No.51179696

>>51179623
Alright, I'm pretty tired right now, so I'll try and dogest this in the morning, but the first part makes sense, and te seoncd part will probably make more sense when I'm coherent.

>> No.51179702

My 40k list

[HQ]- Company Command Squad- Total=125pts
> Master of Ordnance, Officer of fleet
>Lascannon Heavy weapons team, Vox caster


[HQ]- Tank Commander Squadron- Total= 455pts
>Leman Russ Punisher
-Knight Commander Pask, Camo-nets, Melta sponsons, Lascannon
>Leman Russ Executioner
-Plasma Cannon sponsons, Camo-nets

[Troops]- Infantry Platoon- Total= 205pts
>Plt. Cmd. Sqd, 3x Infantry squads
> Vox Caster
>4x Flamers


[Troops]- Veterans- Total= 115pts
> Forward sentries, 2x Plasma gun, 1x Heavy Flamer, Vox caster

[Troops]- Veterans- Total= 155pts
>Forward sentries doctrine, 1x Plasma gun, 1x Heavy Flamer Vox caster
>Sergeant Harker

[Transports]- Chimeras & 1 Taurox- Total= 190pts
>2x Chimeras, 1x Taurox

[Elites]- Militarum Tempestus Scions- Total= 95pts
>2x Melta guns, Vox caster

[X]- Enginseer- Total= 40pts
>X

[Fast Attack]- Vendetta- Total= 170pts
>X

[Heavy Support]- Wyvern Battery- Total= 130pts
>2x Wyverns

[Heavy Support]- Manticore - Total= 170pts
> Manticore


Company Command sqd. & Artillery forms firebase, protected by Infantry platoon, broken up into small squads to slow down ambush & rapid assault units.
Using Emperor's fury Artillery formation.
Lots of artillery orders & OF gives rapid Vendetta deployment while MO gives essentially a Basilisk pot shot.

HQ Tank formation & Chimera's w/Veterans form offensive arm to steal objectives, assault key enemy points, and gain board control (supported by firebase artillery). Maybe have enginseer march behind tanks to provide support?

Vendetta & Melta Scions for Ace in the hole Anti-tank/ ambush units when needed.

>> No.51179715

>>51179650

But what is the parley?

>> No.51179716

>>51179650
the question is, if that's ahra then what does that mean for the dark eldar? update? supplement?

>>51179676
because they're not stupid to take on a character way more skillful and powerful at their time of crisis

>> No.51179737

I want Kasrkins because Scions look stupid but I still want those hellgun- I mean hot-shot lasguns.

They are impossible to find second hand in my country. Does someone make something that looks really similar?

>>51179702
Harker is fucking expensive, if you take him drop the Plasma gun, replace with a Heavy Wepon team with autocannon and three dudes with sniper rifles. Sit back in some good cover and deliver pain.

>> No.51179739

>>51179702
1850 pts btw.
Thoughts?

OH forgot to mention that the CCS is NOT deployed in the Taurox, Taurox is just used to complete formation, it will be moving fast up field to provide fire support/ give opponent something else to shoot at while my Chimeras move.

>> No.51179746

>>51179696
I didn't do the best job of explaining it but it's basically all just fractions and multiplication, and because it's all based on d6 you start memorizing certain functions after a time and it gets easier to do quickly. Like eventually you just know stuff like a 6+ re-rollable is 11/36 or just a hair under 1 in 3 chance.

>> No.51179749

>>51179716
I'd expect a supplement over an update. Model for the dude, maybe some formations that allow a more fluid mixing of crafworlders, dark eldar, and harlequins like the Imperial Formations for Fall of Cadia.

>> No.51179756

>>51179600
Don't skip them but don't binge on them like that anon said. A chap unit in a Trukk or Forgeworld reinforced Trukk with Killsaws isn't bad but not great either.
Bikes are the best bang for your buck, followed by Tankbustas (even after the grenades nerf), Deffkoptas (for flanking twin-linked rokkets) and some Forgeworld units.
A mob of 30 footslogging boys isn't bad per se as a distraction carnifex if you put a Painboy in there but the most you can ask of them is to shoot stuff with Shootas or tarpit something for a couple of turns. And you need the HQ's slots elsewhere.

>> No.51179764

>>51178846
Except those that get squatted.

>> No.51179770

>>51179737
Harker is expensive, but it gives me a relentless rending Heavy bolter. I threw it in because of extra points.
Though taking the Autocannon (due to relentless) may be a good idea instead of the plasma.

>> No.51179777

>>51179613
Heralds of Ruin have them for Kill Team

>> No.51179795

>>51179676
>hur durrr must kill all xenos XDDDDD
they aren't orks

>> No.51179802

>>51179716
>the question is, if that's ahra then what does that mean for the dark eldar? update? supplement?
The next Gathering Storm book will be based around Eldar/Dark Eldar/Harlequins.

>> No.51179816

>>51179770
The snipers are pretty much a must too, because it means that three more guys in the squad can keep up with the long-range camping. Pretty easy to model too. Just cut the barrel of a lasgun, extend it and slap the tip back on the end,

>> No.51179850

if any anons aren't able to learn mathhammer from the dakkadakka link I sent you, or you had more questions about probability (eg the psychic phase) we could start a second thread to discuss it

>> No.51179987

>>51179578

A portion of the Tyranid threat is distracted by the Orks at the moment.

>> No.51180005

>>51179001

Khorne-aligned Word Bearers are the devotees of their pantheon's war god, not necessarily psycho berserkers. There's nothing stopping them from using ranged weapons, all that matters is that at the end of the day, a blood sacrifice has been made in one way or the other.

>> No.51180009

>>51179756
>Painboy with 30 boyz
>but HQ slots
Isn't that what the Painmob is for? I was going to buy the get started box to, y'know, get started, unless y'all tell me it's a bad idea. Seems like good bang for my buck.

>> No.51180010

>>51179578
>>51179987
And Baal.
Leviathan is spread on half of fucking galaxy, they even attack tau.

>> No.51180016

>>51179850
you offering to mathhammer some stuff sempai? hell yes. hows my math look for this?

>10 guardians fire at 5 tactical terminators
>20 shots at bs4, 13 hits
>s4 on t4, 6 saves and 1 rend
>2+/5++
>2 wounds taken
>passed morale

>> No.51180042

>>51180009
Ork start collecting is pretty bad, I don't think there is a worse one desu

>> No.51180047

>>51180042
chaos space marines. where the bonus is "hatred"

>> No.51180080

>>51180047
Ok, that one is shit too. But in CSM one at least you get an actuall warlord, plus Hellbrute isnt THAT bad right now, unlike Deff Dread.

>> No.51180081

>>51180042
>>51180047
Wrathborn Formation

Requirements: 1 Chaos Lord, 1 Chaos Space Marine unit , 1 Hellbrute

Restrictions: The Chaos Lord must be equipped with Terminator Armour.

Special Rules:

Avatar of Spite: The Chaos Lord and all Wrathborn units within 12? inches of him have the Hatred special rule.

Source: Start Collecting!: Chaos Space Marines

>> No.51180091

>>51180042
It actually works well as a full nob suicide squad, keeping them in reserves and then driving them up in a trukk the same turn the deff dread hits their lines.
4 dudes with pks and a 3pk deff dread can hurt some serious shit if they don't need to love to do it.

>> No.51180096

>>51180042
How should I start then, just go for boxes of boyz?

It seemed like the box had lots of good stuff for (relatively) cheap.

>> No.51180097

>the orks I bought off ebay this morning will arrive on saturday since the seller operates in the same state
hot dog!

>> No.51180100

Tzeentch, Nurgle, Slaanesh daemons have nothing like the Skull Cannon and the Lord of Skulls.

Khorne is the patron god of artillery. Ranged Khornate daemons not only exist, they have rules in the codex. One can assume there are ranged Khornate space marines and cultists as well, in fact, you can do just that by giving a Havoc Squad the Mark of Khorne and charge after shooting your four meltas.

>> No.51180129

>>51180097
Painting that thing would be a fucking nightmare, jesus christ.

>> No.51180164

>>51179097
If it's anywhere, its probably here:
http://wh40kart.im/post/list/fap/1

>> No.51180168

>>51179241

"Mark of Khorne" in-game = a unit is devoted to Khorne enough to wear Khornate heraldry and get extra attacks

Mark of Khorne in lore = a champion of Khorne has his soul permanently claimed by Khorne and has Khorne's mark branded on his flesh

>> No.51180173

>>51179438

Hoplites are vehicle murder if you can get them in range of a vehicle. Otherwise they are not so great.

Peltasts are good at fucking up infantry from GEQ to MEQ and can be useful in a pinch on some other targets.

Get either of them in max squads so a single casualty doesn't lose you some of their special rules.

>> No.51180186

>>51180096
You can start with Start collecting u, but You will need some more boyz and a Warboss to get going. All and all its up to you.

>> No.51180193

>>51180168
It's both. It represents both.

>> No.51180197

>>51180016
why 13 hits?

>> No.51180201

>>51180047
>>51180081
Why do people shittalk Hatred? It's one of the better special rules in the fucking game.

>> No.51180202

>>51180129
how much money in kits would it take to build that thing? A baneblade, at least two trukks, some other space marine vehicles bits, maybe a chimera? I spy a chimera heavy flamer...

for what its worth, all I bought was a box each of nobz and flash gitz.

>> No.51180205

>>51180173
Peltasts seem like super rangers, with their variety of ammunition types. I like the idea of Hoplites because I love spears and shields, but I can see them not being super effective.

Would I be an ultra wiener for using them in common play?

>> No.51180211

>>51180096
start collecting box is fine, you get some stuff which is nice

add a armoured assault box and a warboss and you have a really solid start

>> No.51180212

>>51180010

Doesn't Baal also mean they'll be launching themselves into a war against the Blood Thirster Ka'bandha and his Daemonic Legions?

>> No.51180214

>>51180197
He rounded down clearly.

>> No.51180223

>>51179163

Never seen a better way to wipe a Green Tide.

>> No.51180226

>>51180212
Yes.

Expect the Daemons to get utterly shitrekt.

>> No.51180227

>>51180212
Daemons vs Blood Angels vs Tyranids.

>> No.51180233

>>51180212
Yep.
All Blood Angels successors vs Daemons vs Nids.

>> No.51180236

>>51180205

Maybe. Some people might take offense to them, but they don't have many answers to the larger cheese in the game, they can just stomp all over everyone else's regular, not cheese units.

>> No.51180248

>>51179802

Can we not include the CWE this one time?

>> No.51180254

>>51180214
right, no, yeah, I was thinking bs4 = 4+ to hit because I'm retarded

yeah no, hitting on 3s is good

>>51180016
uh I'd be worried about carrying forward your rounding, working with extended probability chains means you shouldn't round until the end but besides that you're not wrong

of course with rend the mathhammer kind of falls apart because you can't actually rely on getting that one rend, the dice will always fuck you, this goes both ways though because sometimes you'll throw tons of rend and wipe the squad.

but your math is correct

>> No.51180256

How's it look?

>> No.51180257

Am I reading the rules for Corvus Blackstar right?

>Transport capactity
>12 models
>May take jump infantry and bikes
>bikes

Can I put twelve fucking bikes in this thing?

>> No.51180260

Are Deathwatch inferior to vanilla Space Marines in every way?

>> No.51180268

>>51180257

They are at least bulky so they would take up two spots each

>> No.51180269

>>51180260
No, Deathwatch have Fragcannons out the ass.

>> No.51180270

>>51180248
Too late, we're already getting the rumours. Of course they're going to combine all the Eldar.

And I am surprised you guys aren't making the connections yet, honestly.

Age of Sigmar has four Grand Alliances.

Gathering Storm has 4 volumes coming out.

First volume was Imperium Grand Alliance shit.

Second one is Eldar Grand Alliance shit.

You see where this is going?

>> No.51180274

>>51180260
>yfw you can take a 10 man squad ALL armed with grav/plasma/melta guns

>> No.51180282

>>51180233

>All Blood Angels successors

I hope that includes the Lamenters then.

Apparently they're a bright spot in the annuls of the otherwise darkened genetic history concerning the Sons of Sanguinius, given they've (supposedly) somehow managed to avoid the Red Thirst and Black Rage.

>> No.51180287

>>51180270
The fuck are you going to do with Orks and Nids?

Combine them?

>> No.51180292

>>51180257
>bikes only taking 1 transport capacity
Bruv.

>> No.51180297

>>51180270
>Imperium grand alliance
>Misses the most important fucking faction of the entire Imperium

>> No.51180301

>>51180260
as a pure force? yes

but you can take a detachment of deathwatch that is literally just one squad

they cost the same as sternguard but get access to better weapons

they are sweet af

>> No.51180306

>>51180268
>>51180292
where does it say bikes are bulky?

the datasheet for a deathwing biker doesn't list bulky, the rulebook unit type biker doesn't say that bike units have the bulky type

I'm thinking that the fucking corvus can carry 12 bikes

>> No.51180307

>>51180287
The Xenos book will probably just split them all up but they'll share a volume for convenience.

>> No.51180318

>>51180254
so how should it be done then? yeah i rounded down to make it easier

>> No.51180322

>>51180282
Well, all Sons of Sanguinius except Lamenters.

>> No.51180325

>>51180306
page 63 of the big rule book, under "special rules"

>> No.51180330

>>51180306
In their unit type entry.

Bikes = very bulky
Jump packs = bulky

3 bikes..or six dudes with jump packs

>> No.51180331

>>51180287
>Ork genestealers replicate so fast they replace regular orks
Stand up now with your Alt-Waaaagh Allies. Say "NO!" to Green Genocide.

>> No.51180333

>>51180306
>the rulebook unit type biker doesn't say that bike units have the bulky type
>Bikes and Jetbikes have the Hammer of Wrath, Jink, Relentless, and Very Bulky special rules
Maybe try reading with your eyes instead of your anus.

>> No.51180345

>>51180274
>>or all storm bolters and assault cannons like a fucking maniac.

Actually fielding individual model squads of assault cannon terminators was pretty effective.

>> No.51180351

>>51180297
Astra Militarum was in there, buddy, I don't know what you're talking about.

>> No.51180361

>>51180333
>>51180330
>>51180325

thanks, my mistake, I was reading the bike part too fast, I was like "ok armoured steed, yeah yeah yeah, yeah I know all the movement shit, turbo boosting, ok done reading bikes"

corvus holding 6 bikes, is it worth it at that point?

>> No.51180364

>>51179532

The correct answer, sadly, is 3). Boyz are a trap option in the current codex; players think they need a pile of them because they're so iconic, and because they used to be effective 2 editions ago. The truth is that Boyz are just straight up poor. They're only good for holding objectives and grots do that better by being cheaper and smaller.

>>51179546

So long as you understand that you should only be doing this for love of the model. The codex Stompa is very, very bad.

>>51179600

MANZ are our best assault unit. You're not wrong that they're 2 wound terminators with no invul, but we have access to cheap, fast assault transports. There's two ways to use MANZ: the "MANZ Missile", whereby you stick a minimum size squad in a Trukk and point in the direction of what you want dead. The Trukk WILL horribly explode in short order but the plan is that the missile is now close enough to what you want dead for them to charge the next turn. And they more or less ignore exploding anyway.

The other way is in a Bullyboyz formation. This requires 3 squads of 5 MANZ, but turns them into a proper assault force. They gain Fear (meh, ironically most useful against other Orks), Fearless (fantastic, gets rid of the wretched abortion that is the Mob Rule table) and +1WS (fucking BRILLIANT). Basically if you want to run Orks in assault, this is the way to go, with Biker Boys backing it up.

>>51180081

Less tax in that. Ork box is almost exclusively tax.

>> No.51180369

>>51180282
They actually got the Black Rage. Also they won't be there, iirc.

>> No.51180370

>>51180361
Very Bulky actually brings it down to 4 bikes.

>> No.51180372

>>51180345
>storm bolters
don't the storm bolters lose the special ammo rule? why would you do this?

>> No.51180381

How funny would dropping 10 deathwatch vets all armed with frag cannons out the back of a Blackstar be?

>> No.51180396

>>51180381
You can take only 4 H weapons in 1 vet unit.

>> No.51180397

>>51180381

Really points expensive.

>> No.51180408

>>51180396
Ah my bad I thought it was a special weapon.

>> No.51180418

I've been binging on Duncan's videos for a while now and for the first time in a long time, I can say I'm excited to paint. That sounds ridiculous since that's part of the reason I never started this game in the first place.

This channel is truly a godsend, and, all of the paints they've added are really invaluable. GW has really stepped up their game since I last stepped foot into Warhammer territory.

>> No.51180423

>>51180381

expensive in every sense of the word

>> No.51180424

>>51180282
>Lamenters
>fighting Tyranids
You realized last time that happened Hive Fleet Kraken wiped out over 90% of the Chapter, right?

Lamenters hardly even exist anymore because of nids.

>> No.51180437

Why do all the Deathwatch vets hold their bolters like this...

why couldn't they carry them normally, not tackteekool enough?

>> No.51180451

Can anyone tell me why the fucking Exalted sorcerers box came with 2 Power/force Swords? what the shit is this?

>> No.51180455

>>51180424
> Implying Nids are even a threat to the Imperium at all
> Not when 3 thunderfire cannons are enough to stalemate the entirety of a tyranid hive fleet.

I still fondly remember once seeing an Apoc game where the tyranid player brought over 1000 gaunts in that apoc formation, where killed gaunts are placed at the back of the line. We made the mistake of just counting all 1000 of them as just one unit. There was a space marine player that brought 3 thunderfire cannons. He used it to single-handedly move the ENTIRE tyranid army back 10" at a time. The whole game ended after 2 turns because the tyranid player rage-quitted.

>> No.51180459

>>51180437
they want to pose for a photo

>> No.51180468

>>51180455
>comparing crunch with fluff
lol

>> No.51180473

>>51180451
Two Space Wolf players wrote your supplement.

>> No.51180481

>>51180455
>he thinks the gaunts that a player can put on an 8x4 table is "the entirety of a Hive Fleet"

Nigger that would bury the fucking LGS and several city blocks around it.

>> No.51180488

>>51180437
Don't even remind me. I had to go through all my spare bits to find marine arms that were holding bolters in a normal firing pose. It's so they can pose true-grit style with all the useless powerswords the sprue comes with.

>> No.51180495

>>51180418
New management, new GW.

The Community team's been really great though, not just Duncan.

>> No.51180506

What does an average Deathwatch detachment look like anyway? A few guys with frag cannons and some plasma guns?

>> No.51180514

>>51180468
I'm sorry fag, but if your crunch doesn't line up with the fluff, then there's something wrong with the fluff. Tyranids are a joke on the tabletop, therefore they should be a joke in the fluff just like the Orks are.

>>51180481
Nigga, space marine chapters have about 20 Thunderfire Cannons on average. 20 TFCs could very easily hold back even THAT level of tyranids. Even if you filled the entirety of Jacksonville florida with tyranid gaunts, there would still be a 72" radius around the space marine's deployment zone where no gaunts exist.

>> No.51180521

>>51180318
you just don't round, so you can like plug everything into one fuck huge equation, or partition it out in excel

20*2/3*1/2 (you actually need a partition here to find the rends)

6.67 (repeating use the full stuff)

branch the two paths because you need to calculate the rends and shit differently

you use 6.67 * 1/3 for the invuln save check and 6.67*2/3 for the armour save path
because you're wounding only on 4/5/6 and 6s rend so 1/3 chance to rend

which is 0.74 failed armour saves and 1.48 failed invuln saves

so it's not really 2 dead guys, it's usually 2, sometimes 1, sometimes 3.

>> No.51180522

>>51180514
>therefore they should be a joke in the fluff just like the Orks are.

Tell that to the Imperial Fists. :^)

>> No.51180530

>>51180514
All well and good until you run out of ammo.

>> No.51180534

>>51180506
the corvus isn't bad, but like, I dunno man

they're pretty much just allies, so you take like one squad of veterans, or like one kill team

lots of bolters (making their bikes REALLY good, and bikes have CHEAP power weapons)

lots of frag cannons

>> No.51180542

Is Z still using Nobz?

I've never ordered, but that's the one I have.

>> No.51180554

>>51180522
The entire universe knows that the Orks are a joke. They exist solely to provide comic relief like pic related.

>>51180530
Space Marines could just drop additional ammo for them via drop pod.

>> No.51180555

>>51180514 (You)
>baitfish.jpg

>> No.51180557

>>51180370
yeah I was looking at the guy who said six jump troops when I typed out six bikes

four bikes in a plane, that doesn't seem worth it it sounds really funny

but you're better off just running more bikers instead of the plane

>> No.51180561

So I wanted to get a lot of bang for my buck and I picked up this ditty for pretty cheap with a coupon.

But now I'm scared I'll be using the wrong paints. I'm not sure how much of GW's propaganda I should believe, but should I fork over the cash for their paints and not use Army Painter's? I'm still rather fresh in the painting business, but can I substitute this white for White Scar and the like? Or does GW's paint formula actually matter in the end for a lot of these colors?

>> No.51180588

>>51180561
GW puts out heaps of propoganda. Those will be fine.

>> No.51180589

>>51180514
>I'm sorry fag, but if your crunch doesn't line up with the fluff, then there's something wrong with the fluff. Tyranids are a joke on the tabletop, therefore they should be a joke in the fluff just like the Orks are.
You got it backwards, m8y.

The crunch is what's fucked up, and everyone knows it, and thanks to the amount of interaction with the community now, GW knows we know it.

When the guys that wrote GSC write the next Tyranid Codex you're going to shit yourself.

>> No.51180590

>>51180473
Just what the everloving hell

>> No.51180596

I think my Dark Vengeance buddy is likely to drop out.
My backup is shaky at best.

What do? :(

>> No.51180599

>>51180488

This sucks balls, I don't know If I have any spare, fucking hell.

>> No.51180606

>>51180561

Army Painter paints are fine but their colors aren't the same as GW's.

>> No.51180608

>>51180554
They almost killed the Imperium. They wiped out the Imperial Fists.

Yeah, they're light hearted comic relief, but only because the Imperium can keep them in check.

>> No.51180615

>>51180561
Every brand makes good stuff

pick and choose your favorites from each brand

>> No.51180618

>>51180561
I use Vallejo, everything goes well for me.

>> No.51180650

>>51180589
>When the guys that wrote GSC write the next Tyranid Codex you're going to shit yourself.

My CC tyranid list hopes so...

>> No.51180653

>>51180618
do you use vallejo model or vallejo game?

I've had a lot of great experiences so far with Vallejo Game Air, but my Vallejo Model has been kind of so-so.

My valejo model "flat blue" is really glossy for some reason.

>> No.51180660

>>51180606
>>51180615
>>51180618
I think what I'm worried about is getting the right paint for the job. I don't want to go about mixing my paint every time I want to use it, but I guess it's a 'make sure the shade matches' sort of thing with the other non-GW paints, and less about what they call them. Like Layer and Base and whatnot? Does that actually make a difference? I mean, I was right about to drop 60 bucks on GW paint tomorrow afternoon. I just don't want to shoot myself in the foot unless I need to, you know?

>> No.51180697

>>51180660
>Like Layer and Base and whatnot?

Nah it's bullshit anon. Just suggestions of which order to paint shit.

>> No.51180702

>>51180660
You can make colors with your eyes well enough, but I guess only if you are familiar with the GW color being references. I wouldn't worry about exact color.

GW base paints are extra opaque so you can apply strong base coats with fewer layers. Certain base paints, such as Averland Sunset, are amazing. Most are just as you would expect.

Where GW really comes into their own is:

>Metallics
>Shades, especially the gloss shades
>Technical and texture paint
>weird stuff like the dry paint

I like some of the GW Edge paints too.

>> No.51180709

>>51180660

Only buy GW paints if you want that specific color. As long as you buy a paint meant for miniatures like Army Painter, Citadel, Privateer Press, Reaper, Vallejo, etc, you'll be fine. Don't buy a large bottle of shitty acrylic for $1. You need the ones that come in tiny bottles for a lot more money like GW or Army Painter ones do.

>> No.51180720

>>51180653
Model and I've had no problems. Stick some matte varnish on it?

>> No.51180738

>>51180720
Well yeah. It might work out better with washes anyway. A glossy paint with a gloss wash will do some real work.

>> No.51180744

>>51180702
Well, again, the whole mixing paint bit scares me because I might not get the same shade the second time I mix it, you know. If I plan on buying more minis and painting them a different time? I might be worrying needlessly.

>>51180709
Oh yeah of course. I wouldn't dream of using that garbage. Mine's more of a 'should I just go buy GW and be done with it or should I go find a competitor'. I might have to drive quite a way to find the nearest GW, and I can't imagine their shipping costs are very decent(?)

>> No.51180752

>>51180653
>implying Vallejo Game Color hasn't always been the shit range and Vallejo Model Color the good one

Air always > non air, model always > color for Vallejo.

VMA > VGA > VMC > VGC

Although VGC is still pretty good compared to other brands.

>> No.51180753

>>51180372
>>like a fucking maniac.
I have a death pact with a friend to make a watch company worth of these guys. He mandated this of one of his squads, I am honor bound to oblige his madness.

Squad 1 (all templates) Furor Team: 5 Shotgunners, 4 Frag Cannons, Heavy Flamer Terminator
Squad 2 (snipers) Purgatus Team: Bolter and Dominus Aegis Librarian, Cyclone Terminator, 8 Stalker bolter veterans
Squad 3 (24' stupid stupid stupid) Aquila Team: storm bolters and Assault cannon Terminators
Squad 4 (heavy melee) Malleus Team: Blackshield with swords, 2x Heavy Thunder Hammers, 3x Stormshield/Thunder Hammer Terminators, Terminator Librarian, 3x power maul veterans
Squad 5 (light melee) Dominatus Squad: just a bunch of power weapons, vanguard vets, blackshield, etc.

...I'm a bit over a fifth done.

>>51180437
...Well, they're the short barrel one handed and linked-to-your-face pattern bolter, so I guess that's the fluff reason. So you can be wielding an overpriced power weapon in the other hand.

>>51180488
My brother. Show me what you've got. I was lucky I had so many rando fucking left hand bits to use from the thousand marine sprues in my sprue pile.

>> No.51180754

>>51178822
>not taking autoguns into close range for that sweet double tap

>> No.51180768

>>51180744
don't mix paint unless you are doing a one-off detail or trying to create a blend between colors

>> No.51180779

What colours are good for shading red? Purple seems good.

>> No.51180780

>>51180451
You can't even equip them on the damn sorcerers!!!

>> No.51180790

>>51180521
ohh, that's way more complicated

>> No.51180794

>>51180451

Because the company that made them thinks units are allowed to charge out of rhinos?

>> No.51180798

>tfw never brought a marine in your life
>but you need 10 Bolters for your IG Sergeants

Fucks sake.

>> No.51180801

>>51180780
sorcerers just have a "force weapon"

this weapon can take the form of a sword rather than a stick if you want.

>> No.51180808

>>51180744

The way I see it, you don't really have a lot of reasons to buy GW like everyone else does.

- You don't have an existing collection of GW paints you need to keep consistent with.
- You don't have a close by GW to conveniently by paint from.
- You're not following a GW paint scheme.
- You're not painting new models for an army already painted with GW paints.

In this case, I would actually recommend buying non-GW paints for the majority of your colors. If you see a GW color you like, go ahead and buy those, but for things like black and white, I wouldn't recommend GW. Other paints

- Have a tiny bit more paint for less money.
- Are cheaper than GW paints if you ignore shipping.
- You're buying online so GW paints will almost definitely cost more after shipping either way.
- Come in more useful bottles (except for certain situations, like if you prefer washes like Nuln Oil to be in a pot rather than a dropper).
- Are generally thinner than non-airbrush Citadel paints.
- Generally have higher quality for things like metallic paints.

I would choose any good brand that comes in a dropper bottle, like Vallejo or Army Painter. Also if you don't need to drybrush with a color, you should try to buy the airbrush version. Why? It's free thinning, and even though it is very thin, that forces you to paint multiple thin layers and achieves a smooth finish. With thicker, non-airbrush paints sometimes you get lazy or don't thin enough and end up with overly thick paintjobs. Especially Citadel Base paints, which are very thick.

It's really up to you the most important part is that the paint is high quality and the color is what you want. The rest is really just money saving or little quality of life things. If I could do it all over, I would buy majority dropper bottle airbrush paints and Citadel Airbrush bottles when I can.

>> No.51180815

>>51180798
look up a bits seller on ebay

>> No.51180837

>>51180815
>TFW you live in New Zealand
>eBay isn't a thing here, neither are bits sellers
>Unless you enjoy being raped for international postage

>> No.51180840

>>51180801
The sorcerers have a force staff!
not weapon
-for clarity i'm referring to the Brand New Exalted Sorcerers box, it comes with 2 power/force swords in the kit
buuuuuut they can't take them, wtf is happening

>> No.51180845

>>51180287

>Leviathan lured into Octarius system in desperate attempt to buy the Imperium more time
>Massive resulting conflict attracts Orks from across the galaxy, including Ghaz
>As the war rages on, Ghaz begins to notice something....familiar about the organisms he and his ladz are now facing
>Slowly but surely, the vast quantities of Greenskin DNA consumed begins to affect the hive fleet
>The Nids are turning green
>The inevitable happens. The Hive Mind is suddenly challenged by something new. Something alien. In fact, two things.
>Gork and Mork

>On the fringes of Imperial space, a garbled transmission warning of a Hive splinter fleet is detected
>The local authorities, still reeling from news of the loss of Cadia, prepares for the onslaught
>But when the first mycetic spores strike the ground, nothing can prepare them for what emerges
>The all too familiar sight of chitin....being ridden by roaring, laughing Orks

>> No.51180850

>>51180808
>Generally have higher quality for things like metallic paints.
vallejo model metallics have very coarse flakes and kind of look like ass. There are those other Vallejo metallics that look really good I guess, but those are oil based.

>> No.51180855

>>51180794
This is what i'm just going to have to accept... dear god... is this what i've become?

>> No.51180858

Can I equip a model IE: a Grey Knight Librarian with more than 1 relic? Like, Soul Glaive for weapon, Fury of Deimos as ranged weapon, and then the Domina Liber Daemonica as extra wargear.

>> No.51180864

>>51180858

No

>> No.51180868

>>51180840
I could have sworn the CSM Sorceror entry just has a force weapon.

Maybe the exalted sorcerer is different, or maybe I am mistaken idk

>> No.51180870

>>51180858
as per faq. (un)fortunately not. only 1 per man

>> No.51180873

>>51180599
It was totally fucking balls. I had to creatively rearrange at least one hand that previously held a pistol.

>>51180753
Learning GW had change to handless space marines after I'd purchased some FW combi weapons was an unpleasant surprise. Just 5 marines, I might expand to 5 more at most after seeing the god accursed sprues.

>> No.51180878

>>51180808
I mean, I am sorta following a GW paint scheme. I cobbled it together from GW Tutorials and just changed one or two colors. From what I've researched a little (people's reviews), Citadel Metallics are really good, and so are their shades. Beyond that, the other colors are just other colors as far as I know.

>> No.51180887

>>51180868

CSM sorcerer gets a force weapon, Exalted Sorcerers get a staff.

>> No.51180892

>>51180753
Whered you get that Librarian? If its a conversion, mind sharing the steps?

>> No.51180906

>>51180892
Looks like the librarian from the deathwatch box game

>> No.51180912

>>51180887
using the kit to build some regular sorcerers could be sweet I guess?

more than likely the kit was designed long before the rules, and the people writing wrath of magnus didn't give a single fuck

>> No.51180926

>>51180912
>guys writing wrath of magnus didn't give a single fuck

I'm feeling this more and more

>> No.51180929

>>51180864
>>51180870
Fuckin' hell. Anyway. How fast do you guys think this'd get tabled? Brought the Deathwatch in drop pod as an anti-vehicle thing because god help GK's if there's an AV13 anywhere on the board.

>> No.51180941

>>51180912

Again, they're too busy charging out rhinos like they did in the demo game where the 1ks got tabled in the match that heavily favored them.

>> No.51180949

>>51180929
>mfw you can make a nearly 2k points Grey Knights army with 30 models

>> No.51180972

Is Silas Alberec from the Exorcists a good HQ to fit with Black Templars? He seems pretty killy and good in close combat, and gives a bonus to morale with his warlord trait. All the Marines being able to re-roll Deny the Witch while also having Adamantium Will also sounds amazing, assuming I face down any psykers.

>> No.51180988

>>51180892
Sure - he's just Jensus Natorian (the blood raven librarian from deathwatch overkill) who is a lovely librarian model to begin with and very easy to mess with because neither of his arms is built into his torso. I just gave him a deathwatch bolter (so he can back up his squad) and a glitzy looking deathwatch stormshield from the regular veteran box (to represent the dominus aegis relic).

Those deathwatch stormshields are great by the way. While >>51180873 is 100% correct that making a squad that isn't fucking filled to the brim of power swords is hard and reliant upon your ownership of other sprues, I was pleasantly surprised to find they actually give you two storm shields per box, one for each arm so you can put it on either side you want.

>>51180873
So far I've also found some workarounds by shaving the power nodes off a sword here and there to just be a close combat weapon, and cutting the hilt and pommel off a sword hand so it becomes a fist (worth a try). Good luck battle bro.

>> No.51181065

>>51180929
it's not garbage. you can run over and kick av13+ with your monstrous creatures, shut is strong with that one.

but you're going to need a lot of practice with it, to not simply evaporate under fire

all that said, it doesn't look unfun to pilot. so i'd probably try it out
though i might scrap the interceptor squad for something else

>> No.51181076

>>51181065
It was either the interceptors or 2 Termie squads and a kitted out Paladin squad. I could drop the Grandmaster for another librarian, but that would take out one of my psycannons and stronger melee model.

>> No.51181080

>>51180753

Are you solo Deathwatch army anon? how are your games? what's your W/L?

>> No.51181107

>>51180790
thankfully even with rending hit/wound/save probabilities are really simple

I'm working on the psychic phase atm

hitting 6s ain't bad either, but trying to calculate perils for any doubles is like "why"

>> No.51181121

>>51180850

Pretty sure VMA metallics and their aluminum flakes are more finely ground than Citadel which has very coarse metallics. If even VMA is too coarse for you, you can try Vallejo Metal Color. Although if you are using Citadel Air or the new AoS metallics maybe that's why as those are better than the old Citadel metallics.

>> No.51181131

First game with muh plastic toys since 4e. How does my list look?

>> No.51181133

>>51181121
I've been very happy with the new AoS metallics, all of them have great cover and shine.

not liquid gold, but damn good

>> No.51181140

>>51181121
maybe that's why. I am using the AoS metallics and they are pretty sweet that's for sure.

>> No.51181148

>>51180345

DW are what MEQ should be, but minus the fancy shit like ammo and frag cannons.

Like what the fuck is this worthless 9 bolters 9 storm bolters bullshit on regular MEQ units?

>> No.51181161

>>51181148

I hope you're aware that in fluff, most Marines run with a bolter and melee weapon.

>> No.51181167

>>51178710
Running Imperial Fists and wanted to be fluffy, what do we think?

>> No.51181168

>>51181161

No shit. I'm saying make those weapons actually worth the fucking billion points you pay for them. A tactical squad cost 140 points. ONE FORTY FUCKING POINTS. WIth wargear it costs as much as A FUCKING RIPTIDE. But is 80% of those models going to be doing shit? No. They're just fucking ablative wounds and point sinks to unlock the grav gun.

>> No.51181178

>>51181168
the problem is with riptides not tactical squads'

>> No.51181192

>>51180753
how many points are these 5 squads

>> No.51181194

>>51180837

>save up money
>buy GW in bulk if possible, the most popular kits
>set up eBay shop
>distribute bits to aussies
>become aussie bits-seller of eBay

>> No.51181207

>>51181168
A nobsquad is 180 points with 6+ armour and ap 6 guns.

>> No.51181214

>>51181207
That's rough.

>> No.51181219

>>51180779

Purple / dark blue

>> No.51181224

>>51181194
it can be a lucrative business if you can buy things wholesale

grav cannons on ebay are over 10 dollars each, while the plasma cannons are only 3 dollars each

>> No.51181225

>>51181167
drop the HK missiles for dozer blades, take a meltabomb on your bike champ

>> No.51181227

>>51180779
Brown

>> No.51181233

>>51181214
no, riptides are undercosted cancer

>> No.51181237

>>51178914
>there are like five hundred of the fuckers on the table

>> No.51181244

>>51181233

>> No.51181245

>>51181224

People need more specific bits for their armies, things that aren't provided in the kit. Grav guns I imagine are a big seller. As someone buying admech bits for a kitbash project, I noticed that Skitarii Plasma Calivers are similarly priced, as you can have up to three per squad but a troop box only comes with one, and fucking everybody playing normal 40k is going to want all three in their Vanguard squads.

>> No.51181253

>>51181244
That's not even bait, just a fact.

>> No.51181261

>>51181178

This right here.

I don't know how to do it, but a Marine with a bolter should be a badass piece of work.

I'm not a marinefag by any stretch of the word, but 10 Marines on foot shouldn't be considered bad or vulnerable by any standard.

Honestly, I don't know if that problem is fixable without a widespread change.

>> No.51181284

>>51181261
The problem is the absolute proliferation of high rof, high str, low ap guns. Terminator marines suffer even more due to this. Reign in some of the more ridiculous imperial and xenos weapons with ap3/2 and 4+ shots and you'll start seeing power armour become relevant again.

>> No.51181290

>>51181261
Pretty much >>51181284

The fact that massed AP 2 fire is so cheap and easy to get makes high armor saves not really worthwhile.

>> No.51181298

>>51181080
I'm working on them but only have the one kill team, some terminators, and a dreadnought finished so far. I've jumped into a bigger team game with them and it was pretty fun. The purgatus kill team full of stalker bolters does very well. 16 specialist ammo rounds at 30+ inches with sniper is pretty powerful, especially with a librarian buffing them. They reroll to wound against squads with an hq type in it - which allowed me to lay down an excessive amount of saves into anyone hiding a commander in a mob of regular infantry and scare anyone who had a commander alone.

The gunner venerable dreadnought is neat. With mission tactics rerolling 1s to hit and BS5, he benefits pretty well. I'm excited about the start collecting box having a formation for a dreadnought inclusive kill team.

The mission tactics rule is cool in general. With just the one chance to switch them up I was able to lay down the hurt very effectively. I played a quick and goofy 1000 point game with a friend playing mono khorne daemons to try out my first painted stuff, and had 4 individual model squads of terminators with assault cannons and the dreadnought with an assault cannon. It was good fun. I got tabled at the end, but killed everything but a bloodthirster and a blood slaughterer. Light infantry do not stand up well to 5 assault cannons.

I'll post more about them as I get enough to field a full army. I'm finishing the silly stormbolter squad, then making a blackstar and a chaplain, then it's on to what I've been most excited about: shotguns and frag cannons.

>> No.51181305

>>51181261

The big change would have to make Marines intimidating on the field, and at 40k scale you'd have to give them the Movie Marines treatment or scale the game down to something where Marines can pose a threat, cutting the game down to the old Rogue Trader team size or Kill Team.

>>51181284

Also this. What does a 3+ save say about your unit when the top three armies can spam enough shots to just math their way through it or can just throw high-strength low AP large blasts everywhere?

>> No.51181306

>>51181253

You act like riptides haven't been a thing for long time and people are not fine with dealing with them.

>> No.51181307

>>51181244
Not even close to bait. like... not even a little

>> No.51181320

>>51181207
#orklifeisthehardlife
its sad that nobs are just so unfuckingplayble when they are supposed to be so good

>> No.51181321

>>51181305
>Movie Marines

That would be fucking cool.

>> No.51181323

>>51181261
I'd give bolters lesser shred (or whatever reroll 1s to wound is called)

Marine Chainswords with ap 5 or as above.

Make them absolute butchers of their lessers.

And take most AP in general down a notch.

>> No.51181329

2000pts world eaters.
Is it better to run 2x 20 man CSM squads or 4x 10 man squads?

>> No.51181331

>>51181306
still doesn't make them any less price toxic

>> No.51181337

>>51181331
>Toxic

Don't use that fucking word Redditor. We use the word Cancer around here.

>> No.51181339

>>51181237
if they were 2 pts a model...

>> No.51181341

Paint anon here. I went through my color-checking guide and I picked out a bunch of Reaper Master colors that match what I need. I think I have about 13 paints for 50 bucks with shipping. Is this a good deal? Are Reaper Master paints good?

>> No.51181361

>>51181337
fun fact. I've never actually been on Reddit. but i'll keep it in mind.

>> No.51181362

>>51181320
Well for all the "nobs r shit" big choppa nobs are fucking terrors if you don't wear terminator armour.

But yeah, Orks desperately need units that can go toe to toe with elites
As iss they're entirely too much based on bullying weak enemis but taking the knee to real opposition and relying on waves of bodies and showers of lead.

>> No.51181364

Hey guys, looking to get into some thousand sons here, does anyone have any good advice/ articles of interest that might be useful to me?
> inb4 "don't"

>> No.51181370

>>51181337
Cancer spreads in a community making it bad.
Toxicity kills communities and new players.

>> No.51181371

>>51181364
Don't

>> No.51181375

>>51181371

>in after "don't"

>> No.51181387

>>51181192
>>how many points, he asks
Yeah... it's uh. I'm not gonna lie to you man. It is excessive. You know the movie The Delta Force with Chuck Norris? You know how the delta force only attacks targets it heroically outnumbers a billion to twelve with dune buggies covered in rocket launchers while blasting patriotic music? I am going to put 2000 points of overloaded tacticool commando assholes on the board and murder one isolated ork boy at the edge of deployment, then fly away in blackstars. My expectations are slim. It should be a lot of fun though. I most likely won't be successful fielding mono deathwatch, but they'll definitely be effective when added as kill teams or as a small black spear to my other armies.

>> No.51181396

>>51181362
I still can't believe how much nobz pay for bikes.

>> No.51181400

>>51181284
>>51181290
>>51181305

I think scale has a big part to do with it for sure. It's like 40k wants to both be HUGE and small at the same time.

I think AP in general is a flawed system for this because why do things like 5+ and 6+ saves even exists? I like the Fantasy/AoS way of things were nothing has an AP value. Rend like it is in AoS wouldn't work in 40k, but something similar might.

Maybe AP weapons just forced you to reroll successful saves instead of out right ignoring them? I don't know.

>> No.51181409

>>51181396
it is painfully absurd

>> No.51181420

>>51181400
I think a better method overall would be if AP on weapons reduced an armor save rather than ignoring it entirely. Like say, a gun would give a -2 to a save to ignore Guardsman armor, but still leave a Marine with a 5+. That might require even more of a rework to function though.

>> No.51181421

>>51181396
Yeah.
17 points max.

>> No.51181426

>>51181364
What do you like about TS and how do you want to run them? Want Magnus? Daemons?

>> No.51181442

>>51181420

I thought that for awhile, too, but it actually makes things weaker. AP5 negates 2 armor, so now a pulse rifle wounds Marines on 3+ and gives them a 5+ save.

>> No.51181449

>>51181421
27pts per model for an upgrade is just wtf levels

>> No.51181485

>>51181400
Ap is the retarded "streamlined" version of save modifiers.

>> No.51181494

>>51181442
No. You'd have to rework it from the ground up. You'd need to make it so AP 2 was the thing reducing armor by 2. AP 1 by 3 and AP 3 by 1, by extension.

This does mean that bolters and plasma rifles wouldn't be blasting through guardsman with easy anymore, but in general it does make a lot of models more durable.

Again, it's the sort of thing that requires a pretty big overhaul of the AP and armor system as a whole.

>> No.51181510

>>51181442

Which means Rend would need to be applied sparingly. A Bolter or Pulse Rifle might only have Rend 1, and most guns are just going to be using flat Rend value.

However, melee might increase Rend, so Power Swords might have Rend 2 or 3 to show someone up close digging the knife into a weak spot in the armor. Of course, most cheap units are probably not going to get any bonuses. Although Chainswords could be given Shred or possibly at least Rend 2 to cut through most basic armor.

>> No.51181522

>>51181494
What?
Reversing effect with 2 as the centre?
So ap 6 improves saves by +3?

>> No.51181531

>>51181522
not, not at all
he didn't say that .... at all

>> No.51181540

>>51181522
Not reversing. Again, I'm talking a complete overhaul here. Like, just scrap everything you know about AP as it currently exists.

>> No.51181549

>>51181531
If ap 1 reduces by 3
ap 2 reduces by 2
ap 3 reduces by 1
What does ap 4-6 do then?

Nothing, just rules bloat?

>> No.51181563

>>51181494
>>51181510

True. That could work, which would require a much needed overhaul. From the sounds of it, that's sadly what we're not getting with 8th.

>>51181549

AP doesn't exist anymore.

Instead, some weapons would have Rend 1, 2, or 3, which ignores that much armor.

>> No.51181582

>>51181549
They don't exist. Instead, there's just an overhaul, with those weapons at AP 1, 2, or 3 being given those new values for convienience.

Potentially, some AP 4 weapons could be lumped in with the AP 3 guns for reducing it by 1. Marines would suffer a bit against Autocannons, as an example, but it also helps ensure there are more weapons in the category.

>> No.51181583

>>51181563
>AP doesn't exist anymore its Rend
Well that makes sense.

>> No.51181591

Ok 40k friends, I have a Skitarii Start Collecting Box, and an extra box of Skitarii Rangers/Vanguard.

How should I build the Rangers/Vanguard

I am thinking 1 10 man squad of rangers for the start collecting formation, and 2 5 man squads for the vanguard.

I have heard Vanguard are much better though (Personally I like the look of Rangers a lot more).

Should I go

>5 rangers, 15 Vanguard in 2 uneven squads
>10 rangers, 10 Vanguard
>10 rangers, 5x2 Vanguard

???

Heavy weapon loadout advice would be cool. I've read 1D4chan's page on Skitarii tactics back to front and have some in mind, but input and shared experience is interesting, and it will depend on the squad layouts...

>> No.51181592

>>51181563

Ahhh, just like 2nd edition.

I've always prefered that.

Autocannon shells harmlessly pinging off Marine armour.

Meaning they are as effective as shotgun pellets vs Power Armour.

It never made sense, I've been waiting since 3rd edition for this to change back.

>> No.51181596

>>51181582
They should.
My balls shrink up every time a autocannon bounces of as easily as a labgun.

>> No.51181600

>>51181591

20 Vanguard.

>> No.51181602

>>51181582
Ap 4 should probably be the start of it, with ap 3 at 2, ap 2 at 3 etc.
Otherwise most of the weapons that were intended to kill marines become really terrible.

>> No.51181613

>>51181600
My formation card had rangers on it so I think I have to have rangers. Also I really like the rangers so I am at least building some.

I have 20 vanguard planned in the long run, depending on how much I enjoy painting the models, so that might give weight to a 10 and 10 argument.

>> No.51181618

>>51181596
>>51181592

Frustrated that autocannons are effective as small arms fire vs 3+ - mind

>> No.51181621

>>51181582
I'd actually have the better AP:5 weapons go to Rend 1, the better AP:4 go to Rend 2, and the better AP:3 weapons go to Rend 3.

>> No.51181622

>>51181592
Cover as BS penalty (down to a minimum of 1)

>> No.51181624

>>51181602
Nah, I would say to just lump 3 and 4 together in order to keep the middle weapons sensible, but having AP 2 reduce it by 3 basically removes most of the point from the change.

The entire point was that AP 2 was too common and marines died in droves because of it. Going from no save to a 6+ save won't help matters. Going from 3+ to 5+ is a much more noticeable improvement, both for marines and terminators.

>> No.51181630

>>51181618

Autocannons are as effective as Tau Ethereals open hand slapping marines in power armour

>> No.51181640

>>51181624
Then you should reduce the number of ap 2 weapons, instead of having anti tank weapons bounce of marines.

>> No.51181648

>>51179187
>Creed, the master of deception
>Scaled cloak

Looks like Alpha Legion just recruited a blue chip prospect

>> No.51181650

>>51181624
Just start making some armor 1+ and 0+ and/or let some armor ignore a bit of rend.

>> No.51181653

>>51181624
I'd make termiex crux terminatus give them a flat minimum save which cannot be reduced.

Like what current ed inv does.

But I'm pro-layered saves so biased.

>> No.51181657

>>51181592

I'd like that, too. Keep in mind that this is wishlisting.

>Cover reduces BS instead of being a save.
>AP doesn't exist
>some weapons reduce armor saves
>ignores cover doesn't exist
>some weapons reduce BS penalties from cover

I think that would be a good start.

Personally, the number of BIG THINGS on the table is out of hand, too, but that's another problem entirely. The game can't decide its infantry, monster, or vehicle based, and instead fails at all three.

>>51181640

That's the point. We are.

>> No.51181669

>>51181207

Are you saying we need to nerf MEQ to Ork levels?

>> No.51181678

>>51181207
Yes, Orks are shit, we all know this.

>> No.51181681

Just increase (nerf) the AP of all guns in the game by +1. Easy.

>> No.51181682

>>51181669
Im saying "muh elites are literally completely worthless and unplayable" is tedious.

>> No.51181687

>>51181681
Except that makes a whole bunch of weapons garbage.

>> No.51181692

>>51181657
Makes snipers and auspexes great again.
Also let snipers bypass or reduce LoS.

>> No.51181698

>>51181687
Which specificly gets bad at their intended job?
Hellguns maybe?

>> No.51181705

>>51181698
Basically any of the high str low ap single shot weapons.

>> No.51181715

>>51181705
>melta AP2
>LC AP3

Not a problem to me.

>> No.51181721

>>51181705
A lot/most of those are intended for anti-tank.

>>51181698
Hellguns and Inferno Bolters. A lot of the Specialist Bolter roungs.

>> No.51181728

>>51181682
>tactical marines
>elites

>> No.51181736

>>51181721
And they're already poor at doing anti tank, due to how the damage table works. They don't need to get any worse.

>> No.51181737

>>51181705
No examples to dissect?
I can think of anti tank weapons having issues, though that's another rotten system.

>> No.51181739

>>51181715
>LC AP3
>Not a problem

Yes, it is....

>> No.51181743

>>51181687

Be real, how many of those guns are on the level of grav/scatter lasers right now? You're refusing chemo because it might cripple your pinky toe.

>> No.51181749

>>51181728
Don't you know each marine is worth a hundred of any lesser warrior.

>> No.51181752

>>51181705

They're generally already garbage because medium strength high RoF does their job better. What purpose does a Lascanon have in this game right now?

>>51181728

That's the problem.

>>51181743

Which is why the game needs an overhaul.

>> No.51181756

>>51181739

Were you honestly relying on LC AP2 to explode things? Because if so, that's merely another example of why the game's current design is flawed, and not a reason to keep all the guns as they are.

>> No.51181758

>>51181743
Scatter lasers already have no ap

>> No.51181760

>>51181743
Or you could explicitly nerf the weapons that are a problem.

>>51181752
So because lascannons are bad we should make them worse?

>> No.51181763

>>51181758

That wasn't the point you fucking idiot. Grav and SL were mentioned because those are the guns that actually see use. "Muh Hellguns" doesn't mean shit because NOBODY EVEN FUCKING TAKES HELLGUNS RIGHT NOW. YOU LOSE NOTHING FROM THIS CHANGE BECAUSE YOUR PRECIOUS WEAPONS ARE ALREADY GARBAGE BEFORE THE CHANGE

>> No.51181766

>>51181739
Amti tank weapons need an anti-tank keyword/effect.

Krak missiles are already at ap3

>> No.51181772

>>51181760

All your LCs are mounted on platforms that suddenly got better. LCs aren't currently competitive anyways so there's no way you were taking Lascannon Jetbikes or Lascannon Riptides. You were taking them on stupid Imperial shit, which ALL benefit from the change.

>> No.51181777

>>51181321
That was actually a thing back in the day

>> No.51181781

>>51181772
You know what else benefits from the ap change? Riptides.

>> No.51181790

>>51181657

Yah.

Used to be

S4 -1 sv, S5 -2 sv, S6 -3sv and so on.

I really liked it.

I never understood why remove it unless the obvious buff Marines answer.

>> No.51181819

>>51181777

It was supposed to account for their ludicrous stories.

>Sergeant Laertes swung his Power Axe and decapitated 30 Orks
>He raised his Bolt Pistol and squeezed off a shot, killing 84 more
>A Deff Dread pounced on him but he managed to tear the arms off before pulling out the Ork in side.

>> No.51181831

>>51181653
Layered saves are pretty disgusting. Having a 5+ for each save gives you like a 1% chance actually taking a wound.

>> No.51181844

>>51181371
On a rating of Ork to Eldar where do they sit

>> No.51181846

>>51181777
It's funny how those aren't even good.

>> No.51181847

>>51181790
Well S as Save reduction makes it hard to represent high penetration ammunition or low Pen scattershot.

It works well enough for games where you swing clubs and fling boulders, but even then guns and crossbows had extra save reduction effects.

>> No.51181857

>>51181844
With or withour Magnus/Daemons carrying them?

>> No.51181859

>>51181844
Tyranids. One useful model, the rest of codex to try and ignore.

>> No.51181861

>>51181847

True, although it was not the rule but just the general guide.

In 2nd edition Scatter lasers were S6, but -1sv

>> No.51181916

>>51181624
>. Going from 3+ to 5+ is a much more noticeable improvement, both for marines and terminators.
Terminators do that NOW with their 5+ inv.

What we need is high strength weapons having a chance to skip saves. Anything that wounds on a 2+ should skip saves on a 6+ (and this second value should improve by one for each point of Str after that). Fluff it as the concussive force of the weapon (or equivilent) incapacitation the wearer without piercing the armour at all.

>> No.51181923

>>51181857
Without Magnus and not spamming daemons, but moderation is okay

>> No.51181927

>>51181916
>Talking about how shooting is too deadly and needs to be toned down
>What we need is for shooting to be more deadly!

>> No.51181931

>>51181923
Beteween IG and Blood angels.

>> No.51181940

>>51181931
So it would be an improvement if an ork player were to switch?

>> No.51181951

>>51181940
Yes, though that's true of basically anything an Ork player switches to.

>> No.51181965

What are the new formations they leaked?

>> No.51181980

>>51181965
shit. thats what they are. only craw is good

>> No.51182023

>>51181940
No, that guys a moron.

Thousand Sons are awful. Magnus is overrated mediocrity. 650 points for a model that is entirely reliant on the rest of the army being built to feed his need for Warp Charge.

Without Magnus and Daemon batteries, Thousand Sons are barely above Orks. Solid Tyranids-Dark Eldar tier.

>> No.51182040

>>51182023
please, they are better than DEldar, if only because of the amount of actually good weapons they have

>> No.51182073

>>51178828
its a shame they will never make a model the looks that good.

>> No.51182085

>>51178867
its mentioned he likes ranged combat but doesnt like magic. if anyone says otherwise they dont really worship the blood god.

>> No.51182102

>>51182040
Yeah, that's what I think when I look at Thousand Sons. "Oh boy, those Hellfyre Missile Launchers are incredible. And, Christ, look at how OP those Warpflamers are!"

>> No.51182105

>>51182040
>the amount of actually good weapons they have
The fuck you smoking?

>> No.51182116

>>51182023
>Magnus needs to be fed WC meme

>Throw 2 dices on siphon
>You now have 3+3 dice from his Mastery level ignoring army casting around you
>Cast S8 AP 1 Melta, D6+4 AP1 Blast, AP2 template and D6 AP2 that effectively has 50% chance of insta killing flyrants for 7 dice total, 11 if you have some remaining and you want to make sure they go off

Unless you are throwing around Ds like a moron, he will probably end up spending less than 5 dice he gave out thanks to Siphon, all while doing pretty crazy damage.

>m-muh D

Can be saved with invu or cover just fine unless you roll 6, so you are better off using appropriate AP weapon. Only use it against LoW's, where it's actually worth it.

Plus you get to spam Chariots with 4 dice, which helps you control map despite spending 650 on one-man death start.

He is not overpowered, but you niggers need to stop talking out of your ass.

>> No.51182119

>>51182102
>>51182105

>good means always being compared to OP shit
the missile laucher is good, if worse than the CML, and the terminators can happliy have 3+, with the TL-ap 3 bolter.

the only shit weapon is the canon, and even then its shit because is so expencive

>> No.51182150

>>51180561
If you are experienced swap paints. If you have a clear idea of a colour scheme and how to make it work swap paints. If you are following Duncan it is easier to use GW colours in my opinion beyond anybody primer, black, white etc

>> No.51182155

>>51182116
>pretending that 650 points is worth a handful of witchfires
>blatantly lying about power statlines and odds of lethality
Figures.

>> No.51182165

What does the grav-backwash rule do and where can I find it?

>> No.51182166

Random bug made the Exorcist cost $350 gringo money.
Reload the page has normal price back.

Check my mail this morning this beauty of $350 is back.

>> No.51182169

>>51182119
>20 points for a worse CML on a base 250 point unit
>good
Stop lying to people. It's like you want people to join the game, get burnt out, and quit. Cancerous fuck.

>> No.51182183

>>51182165

Literally right above the weapon statline

>> No.51182193

>>51182116
Please show us a list for the TS with Magnus in it?

>> No.51182195

>>51181927
That was mainly a response to ap4 autocannons not hurting marines and an alternative to giving ap 4 weapons a -2 to all saves. Ideally it would be in tandem with massively, reducing the access to ap2/3 weapons through codexes and generally toning down shooting.

>> No.51182231

>>51182155
>>51182193
>get called on WC meme
>shift goals

Pathetic. Either admit that you are full of shit or fuck off.

>> No.51182248

>>51182193
Impossible to make a good one. Magnus needs loads of psychic dice to make himself useful and TS list just a) cant provide them b) uses them themselves.

So good list with magnus would probably be:

Cheap sorceror with MoT
2x10 Cultists with MoT
Magnus

Tzeentch Daemons with many many units of new horrors.

Maybe strap strap in allied inquisitorial detachment with I and 3x squads of henchment with single psyker. 79 points for three psychic dice is not bad at all.

>> No.51182253

>>51182231
The fuck? Post a list faggot. That was my first post so the fuck you talking about.

>> No.51182271

Do we have the pictures of the new formations from the fall of cardia book saved somewere?

>> No.51182296

>>51182169
>250 points is bad for a 2/3++ unit with ap3 a ML2 psyker,
no m8, you are the WAAC cancer

>> No.51182309

>>51182253
>>51182248
>>51182231
Other anon here. I would imagine this would be The List in 1500 if you want to get most out of your magnus.

Also watch out for those helfrost weapons!

>> No.51182322

>>51182309
ps: Opted to use Blue Horros since they cost 40pts less than pinks and they are still godawfully hard to kill. 6 units of pinks would go a bit of waste since nobody has time to kill every unit of pink horrors.

>> No.51182327

>>51182309
I was thinking more of a dual death star with Magnus on one side and then full squad of termies with Chaos Lord so they get 2+/3++ reroll 1s and Astral Grimoire on another, and then bunch of horrors for WC and objectives.

>> No.51182359

>>51182309
I know its a troll list but still 11 horrors gives 2 WC.

>> No.51182365

>>51182231
If you aren't taking him for the D beam, why the fuck are you taking him? Fateweaver and a ton of Horrors do the same thing but significantly better. Magnus is mediocre as fuck.

>> No.51182383

>>51182327
Hmm not super bad idea no but at 1500pts that would be very hard to do. You need to put atleast 500pts into that, maybe even more. Magnus is 650. Core cultists are 120. That leaves you with 230pts to get those needed psychic dice from somewhere. You could get herald of tzeentch and 6 units of Brimstone horrors.

Total of 1495.

So yeah. Not a good army really. Sadly Magnus costs too much and needs good support to be effective.

>> No.51182396

Hey guys what do you think of my TS list? It just feels so wrong to have such cheap HQs you know?

>> No.51182400

>>51182359
...Actually forgot completely about that. 11 horrors it would then be, just rip points off from somewhere else.

>> No.51182415

>>51182231
Explain to me how Magnus is better then this? From the same supplement btw.

>> No.51182419

>>51182396
Excellent shooting. Hellfyre Missile Launcher is probably the best ranged weapon in the game, especially on such a cost-effective platform. It meshes really well with the rest of the units firepower too.

Magnus is a beast. He's essentially entirely self-sufficient, and the firepower of most of a Devastator squad is nothing to be scoffed at.

Try to scrape some points to throw some Warpflamers on the Rubric Marines. All of these new Thousand Sons weapons are amazing.

>> No.51182426

>>51182231
I didn't shift shit. I pointed out how your "call-out" was garbage. Come back with a rebuttal that isn't 90% fabrication and we can talk.

>> No.51182445

>>51182419
>>Warpflamer
>+7 points to replace an ap3 Bolter youve already paid for with an ap4 FnP giving flamer on a unit with no overwatch.

Truly the second best ranged weapon after the Hellfyre missile launcher.

>> No.51182476

>>51182415
It's hilarious how shit Exalted Sorcerer is, especially when compared to new HQs.

>> No.51182484

>>51182476
Meant for
>>51182396

>> No.51182502

>>51182476
The biggest issue with the Exalted Sorcerer is that he lacks like half the CSM character options. Where's his bike, his jet pack, his terminator armor, his non-staff force weapons?

>> No.51182517

>>51182502
Thousand Son would have been 100 times better off being left to be updated in Traitor Legions then letting two Space Yiffers write their supplement.

>> No.51182551

>>51182517
Yeah, the difference in power/scope between the Traitor Legion "tactics" and the Thousand Sons tactics are absurd. Death Guard get free Feel no Pain AND Fearless AND Relentless. Thousand Sons get +1 Invuln while Blessed.

>> No.51182723

>>51180561
>So I wanted to get a lot of bang for my buck and I picked up this ditty for pretty cheap with a coupon.
>But now I'm scared I'll be using the wrong paints. I'm not sure how much of GW's propaganda I should believe, but should I fork over the cash for their paints and not use Army Painter's? I'm still rather fresh in the painting business, but can I substitute this white for White Scar and the like? Or does GW's paint formula actually matter in the end for a lot of these colors?

I stopped using citadel and vallejo to use army painter warpaints about 3 years ago, one month ago i got the Complete warpaints set limited and practically the only paintings that I still use that are not warpaints are ceramite white and shades that I like those citadel colors. I love the new mixing medium, until now I used the vallejo with the warpaintings, but the army painter mixing medium are very very similar.

>> No.51182764

So I've been messing around with the new Daemon formations in WoM lately. Seems pretty legit.

This list has 24 WC, 2 FMC and the units in the Pandemoniad all have a 4+ invun. Thoughts?

>> No.51182765

>>51179173
Must...convert...chimeras...faster!

Also, I need to decide if I want to give my Melta vets bazookas to stick with the theme or just regular meltaguns

>> No.51182810

>tfw not good enough at the game to use your favourite army

I want to play Dark Eldar, but I've been spoiled with starting with Death Guard. I can't handle T3 5+.

>> No.51182841

>>51182810
Well the problem is not that you cant handle Dark Eldar.

The problem is that almost every other army in the game can handle dark eldar fairly well.

>> No.51182842

Getting back in after 8 years. Mostly casual shit with Tau friend planned. Thanks for any advice, bros.

BA DC Strike Force - 1000 pts

DC Chaplain - 125
6 DC marines, Rhino - 165
7 DC marines, Rhino - 185
7 DC marines, Rhino - 185
1 DC Dread, Talons, Drop Pod - 170
1 DC Dread, Talons, Drop Pod - 170

>> No.51182853

It's hilarious how shit Rubrics are. Both their AP and invu are mostly rendered moot thanks to cover and not being able to overwatch is just slap in the face with their price-tag.

>> No.51182869

>>51182853
>implying
Thousand Sons are probably the best shooting army in the game after Tau. Their weapons are just balls to the walls insane. Guess how many armor saves a Tactical Marine cane make against an Inferno Bolter. None. Get good, scrub.

>> No.51182874

>>51182853
Dont forget that you have to take force staves as well now. Why? Because fuck you and your old models thats why.

;^)

>> No.51182938

>>51182869

>Thousand Sons are probably the best shooting army in the game after Tau.

>> No.51183031

Does anyone regularly watch the live streams on twitch?

>> No.51183032

>>51178859
>Tau are falling to khorne.
>Kharne has a plasma pistol
>You can shoot at danger close and still get the old blood a goin.

Why does everyone think Khorne is just axe murder? Some people take skulls with a gun better than an axe.

>> No.51183057

>>51183032

>Tau are falling to khorne.

source on this dank meme

>> No.51183083

If I have a guard squad firing a vengeance gatling cannon and give them the order to ignore cover, does the cannon's shots also ignore cover?

>> No.51183157

>>51183083
yes

>> No.51183174

>>51182853
>not taking the terminators, and having a 3++
git gud

>> No.51183192

>>51183174
Of course you are going to take 3++ instant death termies with Astral Grimoire, Telepathy and Biomancy and run people over.

That still doesn't make Rubrics any less shit

>> No.51183199

Is it just me or are the warlord traits in the new chaos book really good?

>> No.51183202

Guard player here, is this Cadia release considered our update? I don't understand, when wolves or tau or tzeentch or other factions get the eye of GW over them they get some cool units added to their roster. We got no new models and lost at least one, maybe two of our three special characters left.

Did I fuck up in my choice of faction.

>> No.51183219

>>51183192
but why would you even take rubrics? tzangors are much better

>> No.51183223

>>51183174
>250 points base
Sure thing boss.

>> No.51183232

>>51183223
>250 is expensive for SOT
i wish tau players would leave

>> No.51183245

>>51183232
>unit that is shit is called bad
>hurr WAAC Tau faggots
Your shitposting isn't going to make Thousand Sons any less of an embarrassment.

>> No.51183247

>>51178710

New leaks
>>51183238
New memes
>>51183238
New shitposting
>>51183238

>> No.51183263

>>51183202
GW probably considers it an update for the entire imperium. thankfully you can now field respawning guardsmen now thanks to the new detachment.

>> No.51183264

>>51183232
I cant tell if your trolling. Scarabs are fucking trash. TEQ is useless these days adn to get that 3++ you have to cast a buff on them making those 2 WC useless.

Why do they only have power swords? Why does the sorc only get a staff?

>> No.51183272

>>51183245
>unit that is pretty good, and fairly price
>'WAAAAH ITS NOT A RIPTIDE OR A WRAITHKNIGHT'

haha you are funny

>>51183264
>he dosent know about force

>> No.51183284

>>51178710
So me and 3 friends are setting up a 2V2 match soon, don't have many details but would like peoples opinions?

1000 points each, so 2000 vs 2000
>Me and ally - Death Guard and Night Lords
>Opponents - Thousand Sons and World Eaters

All I know is in the 1000 point list the WE player has chaos warband and raptor talon formation so I assume he is taking everything pretty bog standard.

How do me and my ally fair? Can we win? Fair fight? Stomp?

>> No.51183298

>>51183272
>pretty good
>250 points for some terminators stuck with power swords and AP3 bolters
>in an army of nothing but AP3 bolters
S.O. are trash. Would be a different story if they didn't lose two spells to Tzeentch and could take a Spell Familiar.

>> No.51183300

>>51183272
>>he dosent know about force
>HURR DURR

Fucking trolls man.

>> No.51183315

>>51183300
It's pretty sad that the pro-TS shitposters can't even bother to read what they're replying to and instead resort to stock responses.

>> No.51183417

>>51183083
How are they firing it? Vengeance batteries have automated fire and they cannot by fires by other models.

But yes. Works on other fireable guns.

>> No.51183688

>>51183284
no one?

>> No.51183735

>>51183284
Threads dead post in new one

>> No.51183853

>>51183263
>respawning a squad of guardsmen from the other side of the table on a 5+

you just need to get fucking four platoons.

its pretty shit senpai

>>
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