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49387424 No.49387424 [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

Is Robert Jordan a weeaboo?

>> No.49387436


>> No.49387593

No, but OP is a faggot.

>> No.49387685


>> No.49387984

was for >>49387436

>> No.49389558

He was sexist, so probably

>> No.49390282
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>> No.49390346

Matt was such a shit

>> No.49390819
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>Matt was THE shit

>> No.49390990

My wife keeps tellong me she cant wait untill HBO picks up WoT. Deep down though I know it would make a better anime.

>> No.49391034


I think to be translated into any visual medium there would have to be big changes. There's too much stuff in the books about people being able to sense things that most other characters can't.

>> No.49391108

I know, that is why I think it would make a good anime. Anime has an easier time showing off a characters inner thought and weeb magic and the like. Its overly stylized and so is WoT.

>> No.49391166

I think it's gonna cause a shitstorm. The books are full of women embarrassing themselves and men embarrassing them further. At least as an anime no one would care

>> No.49391178

Is there really? There's just the Saidar glow from what I remember

>> No.49391214
File: 202 KB, 900x1501, Character-Stages-the-wheel-of-time-9115626-900-1501.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

>implying the men waren't equally dumb

>> No.49391293
File: 2.15 MB, 1280x810, Spin_on_Wheel_of_Genders.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

>thirst for mulled wine intensifies

>> No.49391494

I loved the Wheel of Time to death, but I think it was book 4? Maybe 5? When theyre searching for the bowl of the winds, I actually had to skip those chapters. Nynaeve, Egwene, and Elayne were so fucking infuriating I could not bring myself to read their chapters.

>> No.49391545

stuff like the flame and the void and how the man-magic was sickening etc. i guess

>> No.49391552

yeah, the art was horrible. but anime ver could fix that.
>not basing toun on the child-like empress from the never ending story
such a big loss. but appearances are just that- appearances.

>> No.49391619
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this, a thousand times this

>> No.49391628

my bad, didn't notice the fine at print at first.
you forgot
the whole 'wot is sexist' memes well and it helps keep the story on people minds, but it just ain't true.

>> No.49391823

I think it's the opposite of sexist. Switching the gender roles and having the women think the men are silly and not capable of leadership is an interesting commentary.

>> No.49391916

Been listening to WoT on audiobook and I got to say it is GOAT. I don't have anything further to contribute.

>> No.49391921
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>mfw still no official TV announcement

>> No.49391976

have you ever found a woman that does not think that man are not capable and stupid?

Also the one 'ye wanderer for the win, with his poky spear of death.

>> No.49392078
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Egwene never bothered me much. But Perrin was the bane of my reading experience. Fucking wolf dream was so boring.

>> No.49392151

He was ok till the faile+angst. Egwene wasn't terrible, but her "I know better than everyone, You should respect me because I'm the amyrlin (even though I got the position as a joke)" attitude really pissed me off some times.

>> No.49392206
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Well she needed to hammer it in because her position was weak.

>> No.49392515
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>> No.49392532

More of a hindu fag

>> No.49392669
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>> No.49392781

That isn't switched though, thats pretty much the doting mother/schoolgirl stereotypes ramped up to 11

>> No.49394712

I don't get the acclaim for WoT. I'm five books in and just doesn't seem that great. The characters range from uninteresting to infuriatingly annoying, the romantic plots are just awfully handled, and the writing itself seems repetitive. I'm tired of being reminded in great detail how super awesome/terrible channeling the one power is and of hearing how Lan's color shifting cloak makes him look like a floating head. And the fucking women. Like gossiping schoolgirls, always babbling some shit about how silly men are, while proving themselves awful human beings with their incessant bickering

>> No.49394816

I guess it's just not for you

>> No.49396100
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>> No.49396138

Its weird, David Eddings has roughly the same problems and i love his books, but Wot was sorta meh for me

>> No.49396247
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>> No.49396265


>> No.49396321
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>> No.49396363

>Is Robert Jordan a weeaboo?
Yep. His obsession with the thousand folded katana as the greatest sword ever and a take on Hollywood Samurai culture in most of the badass groups would suggest as much.

He also had a Pillar Man as one of the minor antagonists, so I wouldn't be shocked if he enjoyed a bit of manga.

I agree with other anons that think WoT would make a better anime than live action show. The magic system alone would translate better into animation, showing the weaves and other things like that.

>> No.49396651
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The heron swords were never powerful though. They were just symbols. So no obsession over thousand folds. I don't even recall the forging process mentioned.

>> No.49396693

The first book goes into a long rant about how the design of the heron swords is superior to the 'clumsy, heavy, doubled edged broad swords'. And the 'thousand fold katana' is clearly what Jordan was emulating by the design and ability of the power forged heron marked swords.

>> No.49396766
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Fairly standard fare for a weapon that is worthy an explicit mention in a fantasy story, of course the stuff of the protagonist is better than your rank and file stuff. He wasn't being excessive. Any elven work item in other fantasy gets as much.

>> No.49397110

I don't see how you're disputing Jordan being weeb as fuck. He picked the Japanese aesthetic and lauded as superior for a reason.

>> No.49397272
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You might have a different definition or threshold of weeaboo.

I think the required severity isn't given. Simply describing one thing as better than the other doesn't cut it.
If he had described Broadswords as superior weapons to the alternatives in setting it would be westaboo by that metric.
One thing can always be better than another simply by virtue of things being different. I think he freed himself enough from japan and doesn't wank it. It is just Japanese aesthetic plugged in one spot.

>> No.49397546

The heron marked blades weren't seanchan though, they were forged with the one power in the age of legends. Also the one culture with asian aesthetic were unambiguous badguys and were founded by king arthur.

>> No.49397626

>I think he freed himself enough from japan and doesn't wank it.
The entire warder culture is based on bushido, and the majority of the borderlands is based on Japan. The Aiel have a similar code to bushido as well.

The Malkier and Shainar also have strong Japanese aesthetics, and the Aiel and Warder code of conduct draws from bushido.

The Seanchan are based on Imperial China, not Japan.

>> No.49397681

>The Malkier and Shainar also have strong Japanese aesthetics
Care to elaborate?
>the Aiel and Warder code of conduct draws from bushido.
Bushido isn't the only code of honor, chivalry for instance.
>The Seanchan are based on Imperial China, not Japan.
Elaborate, also I said aesthetic i.e. similar style.

>> No.49397705

Where do you think ridiculous anime bullshit originated from?

>> No.49397706

>The entire warder culture is based on bushido
not european knights and vassels?
>Aiel have a similar code to bushido as well.
w all know aiel are based on Dune which in turn are based on arabs.

>> No.49397795
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Warder code of conduct is basically "guard Aes Sedai with your life". That is hardly a philosophy so straight forward is the notion, let alone exclusive to bushido.

>> No.49397871

> chivalry for instance
>not european knights and vassels?
Not at all, particularly the warrior culture of subservience to a lord is very different from the European vassalage system. Nothing in any code of chivalry demands the kind of subservience to authority that bushido or the bushido-esque code found in WoT does.

Add to the fact Carheinan wear literal back-banners similar to the Japanese Samurai and that's another weeb point.

There's a bit of Dune in the Aiel, but there's also Zulu and again, Samurai culture there as well.

Japanese stuff is so deeply wound into WoT don't see how you guys are able to argue against it. Jordan was never shy about his influences.

Jordan lifts almost direct quotes on bushido and Samurai history during the White Tower warder scenes. The whole 'I die before my Aes Sedai' is deliberately drawing on the supposed fanatical loyalty Samurai had for their masters.

There's a shit load of visual and cultural stuff drawn from Japanese history (or the distortion of it Jordan was probably more familiar with)

>> No.49397895
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Furthermore, there is no conflict between a weeaboo faction and a non-weeaboo faction in the book in wich weeaboos would demonstrate their superiority. All asian elements are dispersed across factions.

>> No.49397932

He dismisses the non-Weeb stuff in pretty much the first chapter as being 'crude and ineffecient chump stuff'. If anything that makes him a triple-weeb. Everyone uses a katana if they use a sword (because why wouldn't you? They're the best), everyone has some splash of Japan in their outlook and culture.

I don't have a problem with it, I just think its weird /tg/ won't accept that Jordan was a bit of a weeaboo.

>> No.49397974

ok now you are shiting me. Carheinan = franch, andor= britain. no, i don't care andor is inland.

>> No.49397990

A France that wears back-banners and have other strong Japanese imagery. They have a renamed version of 'mon'.

>> No.49397993

/tg/ likes him and hates weebs, so clearly the two cant be the same

>> No.49398010


Are you guys seriously arguing about bushido and chivalry as though they were real things(well, real things properly related to honour and such)? Theyre both essentially things that were applied to events retroactively to keep the nobles from looking like murdering assholes.

>> No.49398019

Yes, I know that, but Jordan didn't necessarily know that. He was from the pre-Internet age. It doesn't matter about the objective facts of bushido and chivalry, only how Jordan was most likely familiar with them.

>> No.49398042

you can say 'all the swords are katana so he is a weeb', but you can't say 'his franch have a little side-influance to not be completly france so he is a weeb'. theres a differeance in volume.

>> No.49398063

The fact that its in so many places that its essentially everywhere increases the weeaboo, not diminishes it.

Again, I have no problem with the weeb aspects of WoT. I consider it a defining trait, if anything, and I like WoT. I just find it funny how aggressively you guys are trying to dismiss it.

>> No.49398105
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we were starting out at
>weeb as fuck

A little bit I can reasonably concede, but for me weeaboo still denotes are more heavy negative thing, not a bit of nerd appreciation.
And he doesn't dismiss non-weeb stuff. He has Genoese crossbows, English longbows and canons wrecking shit. The awesomeness of Heron blades is by virtue of magic not intrinsic value and they aren't alone in that (Perrins hammer). Only heron blades are explicitly not!katanas and that doesn't preclude other weapons from being used with similar effectiveness.

It's real enough in that somebody wrote the thing and it's a warrior code. Seems applicable.

>> No.49398131

>Only heron blades are explicitly not!katanas
That's not true, the majority of Warders and Borderlanders use notKatanas and most of those aren't heron marked or power forged. Remember, not every heron marked blade is a power forged one.

>> No.49398146

Mat also uses a naginata.

>> No.49398149

We would actually need to be able to see the One and True power's weaves since so much actual story is invested on how they work and how visible they are. We need to be able to get a sense of how the Aes Sedai/Warders and the like can sense things, dream states, foretelling, the Taint etc etc. There's way too much shit that is felt or sensed that would be difficult to transfer to a screen methinks. I don't like anime all that much but I agree that's probably the most effective way to transfer the books to tv or film.

>> No.49398179

what about non-anime cartoon?

>> No.49398188

Actually the most infuriating thing for me for all the characters was their sense of their own importance. "Hurr I'm the queen/amyrlin/empress/etc and the literal saviour of all mankind, the most powerful person to ever live directly reborn in front of me should realize how insignificant he is in my presence". It would be like the mayor of some village in Somalia being pissed that the literal second coming of Jesus isn't listening to what he has to say.

>> No.49398197
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I might have forgotten that. I kind of filed most stuff under "this individual guy has this"

I never got the impression that all swords were katanas. Would be unreasonable for a whole subcontinent. Let's be honest, mostly it is just "swords" and multiple styles were established to exist beforehand. So it's ultimatively up to the reader what to imagine.

>> No.49398231

That's just part of Jordan's "women are bitches" motif

>> No.49398264

And Perrin uses a warhammer, the Saldeans use sabers/scimitars, the Children of the Light are clearly some type of Templars, the Warders may be bushido types but the Aes Sedai are supposed to be the Catholic Church. The most respectable and powerful kingdom is an England stand-in, and the main Japanese culture stand-in is a shadow influenced fascist police state. There's no question that he likes Eastern culture specifically Japanese but he definitely borrowed his imagery and themes from a thousand different sources and seemed pretty fair at spreading them out evenly.

>> No.49398269

>everything is japanese if I stretch hard enough
No doubt he took inspiration from Japan, but if you believe that he took inspiration from there any more than anywhere else you're being intellectually dishonest.

>> No.49398279

Possible, but would be difficult to capture the right kind of style I think. I feel animation either way is the best way to get this across, but since so much in it is so surreal and hard to visualize Anime style is probably gonna be better at conveying the more abstract stuff.

>> No.49398326

Believing something wrong isn't being dishonest. That would be willfully misrepresenting something you know better.

If western animation wasn't so dead maybe. But Anime would fuck up too.

>> No.49398359

that mottif was almost as strong as the 'men are woolheads' motif.

>> No.49398382

>western animation is dead
im sorry?

>> No.49398400

Did men actually behave like it though, or was that just something the women like to project onto them?

>> No.49398427

Well, you know about all the other real world cultures he takes inspiration from and the ratio at which they appear compared to the Japanese ones. I suppose it could be due to your definition of weaboo being someone who has a positive view on anything from or based on japan.
There are quite a few instances of men making boneheaded mistakes because of pride.

>> No.49398461

>the women like to project onto them?
>women thinks men are woolheads
and men think they will never understand women, and leave it at that without even trying.

>> No.49398508
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Well, relatively speaking. I sure as hell don't want Pixar or Dreamworks Wheel of Time.

I think you mean another Anon. Cause I didn't define it that way.

I'd say overly positive to a cultish degree, coupled with a compulsion to inject and preach that positive view. But it's one of these wobbly internet terms.

>> No.49398573

>Pixar or Dreamworks
dude, im weeaboo as they come but even i know /co/ exists

>> No.49398644
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Ok I was being egocentric and ignored stuff that hasn't catered to my tastes in a decade. And I couldn't name cartoon producers.

>> No.49398966

I remember dropping WoT somewhere around Book 4/5. I was so busy at the time and it was starting to get dull. I think I'm glad I did, since I hear Sanderson really shit the bed when he tried wrapping everything up.

Does /tg/ have any recommended newer books? I need to read some more fantasy for inspiration, but everything I pick up that's newer just seems like more of the same old shit trying to cash in on Game of Thrones. It's a shame Swordy and Sorcery is dead as a genre, or rather that modern readers/writers seem to think all Fantasy falls under Sword and Sorcery.

>> No.49399219

There are stories of women telling Robert Jordan that he did a very realistic job of portraying women in Wheel of Time.

Granted, that was before the rise of the current SJW crowd, so who knows what reactions will be now?

>> No.49399474

try anime.
not kidding.
not kidding.
outbreak company.
not kidding.

not kidding.

(Enchantress from the stars)
(try it)

>> No.49399599

I see more examples of foolish pride from female characters, especially Nynaeve amd Faile

>> No.49399608

Noble dead saga

>> No.49399622


Sanderson was actually a huge improvement in quality at the end. Robert Jordan really hits his stride of absolute shit around book 7

>> No.49400113

Faile is worst WoT, but Nynaeve had a good standing in her sociaty from a young age, its understandable that she will become snobish

>> No.49400301
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This thread isn't /tg/ related.
lets make /tg/ related.

lets post our characters for WoT tabeltop!

>> No.49400344

I haven't read any high fantasy (empires, the end of the world, extremely powerful protagonist, etc) in quite a while.

But if you're just looking for good fantasy in general there are some excellent lesser-known books out there:

Name of the Wind series, this is probably my favorite book actually. Which is not something I say lightly, it's written absolutely beautifully.

The Lies of Locke Lamora: Thief-fantasy. There are three books out in the series now and it's actually going downhill, but the first book is so great and the subsequent ones are good enough that it's worth starting.

The Assassin's Apprentice: I get a lot of disagreement about this one for a lot of different reasons. One friend read the whole thing and refused to read more because it was too depressing for her. Another hated that it doesn't follow the standard heroes' journey. I'm not a fan of sadness but both of those things were plusses for me; I think it's really well written and bucks the trends of standard fantasy very well.

>> No.49401472

>lesser-known books
>Name of the Wind
That's a popular series and regularly makes top fantasy books lists

That said, fuck Kvothe and his stupid name

>> No.49401757

did anybody besides wotc do a wheel of time rpg?

>> No.49401867

not that i know off, but i guess you can use other fantasy based tabletops to recreate wot.

>> No.49402095

I enjoy the books, but man, fuck Kvothe, and fuck his unbelievable abiity to massively fuck up, repeatedly, for stupid-ass reasons and yet still come out of it somehow better off when all is said and done

>> No.49402754


Jordan's problems with books 7 through to like 10 or 11 was that he was trying to show the Light losing the war from a meta perspective. Basically shit all happens, characters move around and do nothing, and the world just keeps getting shittier the whole time on purpose to demonstrate how close the Shadow was to actually winning.

The problem was that he didn't actually do enough to demonstrate how dire the situation was, but instead spent too much time trying to be subtle about it. Not to mention actually making the books slow is a hell of a gamble and cost him a lot of readers who simply ran out of patience for such a tactic.

I've always appreciated the attempt I guess, and liked the series enough to continue and still love it, but I always get bored reading large segments of those books and wish that he had simply gone a bit more GRRM and had a bunch of primary or secondary characters get killed to keep the tension up and various misfortunes to show the state of affairs.

>> No.49402968

I've been enjoying the black company series.

>> No.49404364

I'm on the last book and at no point has it ever described the style of swords the warders use. In fact, it has barely described the shape of any of the swords other than specifying that Bashir(sp?) and his men use sabres.

>> No.49404402

Faile was one of the highest noble daughters of her nation. It's pretty reasonable that she would act as she does.

Most of the complaints I'm seeing here are of characters that act in annoying ways and do stupid things. I like that. It's realistic, people do stupid shit because they don't know the whole story and get over-confident. All of the characters are flawed and that isn't a bad thing.

>> No.49404495

please. faile kiled her aiel shield by stabbing him in the back. she is a bitch. this is beyond conniving and arrogant; this is darkfriend-tier dick move.

>> No.49404559

Joe Abercrombie. To quote a friend I introduced to him. "After reading Abercrombie other fantasy just isn't as good." It spoils you.

>> No.49404573

Yeah woulda been much smarter to let him fight her husband and potentially kill him, and literally cause the shadow to win.

>> No.49404603

she is able enough to have him recruited or at least leave peaceully.

>> No.49404636

If you remember the scene it was literally a case of he had raised his veil and Perrin was in a beserker rage and neither was in any mood or interest of backing down and turning non violent.

>> No.49404682

she could have pushed the aiel aside and charge towards perrin. she just didn't want to deal with another men in her life now that alpha wolf is back, so she solved the inconviance with murder.

>> No.49404731

I actually met his neice once and asked her if he had problems with women, and according to her he was a boisterous, loud, somewhat bullheaded man who had always had strong women in his life.

In other words, He was projecting the women he knew as ALL THE WOMEN in his books, and projecting HIMSELF as all the men.

All the women were bitches because all the women he knew HAD to be bitch to deal with him. All the men were considered by the women to be idiots because all the women he knew considered men to be idiots. Because of HIM.

nothing is written in vaccume

>> No.49404836

Could've maybe. But I hardly feel bad. He had joined the Shaido, taken slaves, pillaged and murdered the innocent, turned his back on what it meant to be Aiel, and was now raising weapons against Perrin. He was only just barely worth saving, and certainly not worth risking Perrin's life and one of the Light's main warriors over.

>> No.49404911

> taken slaves, pillaged and murdered the innocent, turned his back on what it meant to be Aiel
you just described the majority of the aiel men.

>> No.49405004
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>wish that he had simply gone a bit more GRRM and had a bunch of primary or secondary characters get killed to keep the tension up

>> No.49405560
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>> No.49405954

>it has barely described the shape of any of the swords other than specifying that Bashir(sp?) and his men use sabres.
I'm on book five and they just described the blade Aveindha gives Rand. It goes into great detail about the ivory hilt and gem encrusted scabbard and heron marked blade with a slight curve and one edge. It does this with every heron marked blade and then some others. Even the fire wrought one is described

>> No.49405982

His grimdarkness is oppressive. I had to break from his stuff to find something where everyone didn't end up dead/insane/suicidal/enslaved to a megalomaniacal wizard by the end

>> No.49406163

>Is warned not to take anything from the city of super evil shit
>Steals a fucking dagger cause lol shiny
>Spends the rest of the book going insane and slowly dying
>Only makes it cause his childhood friend drags his dumb ass through it all
>Gets cured and only responds with suspicion towards his healers
>Has no gratitude towards Rand for putting up with his shit and only complains about how he wants to run away and fuck bitches
>Gets himself in even more shit by touching more magic shit he's too dumb to use properly
>Gets fucking hanged and saved by Rand AGAIN
>Still a thankless piece of shit
>Starts speaking in tongues and confusing his memories
>Calls Rand the crazy one
Mat is an asshole

>> No.49406196

ATM I'm reading the series and I'm at this part.

Up to this point, literally all Nynaeve and Elayne chapters are infuriating. Especially those from Nynaeve's point of view.

You can make a drinking game with them, take a shoot every time a word "fool" comes up.

>> No.49406301

funny, nynaeve is my fav fem character in wot. i ind her reasoning very plausible considering her character and what is known to her at the time.



>> No.49406375

I liked Nynaeve at the beginning. She seemed to be the most no-nonsense tough bitch in the story, then she just becames progressively more petulant I couldn't tolerate it anymore

>> No.49406430

>Nynaeve tugs her braid
I don't know why but that shit makes me so mad

>> No.49406559
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The only good female characters are the Wise Ones. Mainly because they're the I ly ones that aren't super domineering bitches.

Aiel are the best thing about the series, period.
Plus I love how absolutely foreign their sense of humor is. It's so charming.

>> No.49406653

>he doesn't understand aiel humor
seriously? well, now i undetand why you can't see the charm in the girls.

>> No.49406664

IMO, Moiraine was pretty decent.
Yeah, she was manipulative, but at least she wasn't a retard. I am at the Book 6 and she's still the only competent female character.

>> No.49406696

what about birgite? siuan? min?

>> No.49406706

Siuan is too busy being humiliated

>> No.49406716
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siuan a cute

>> No.49406737

ATM, none did anything really big. Siuan got fucked but is in the process of doing something, while Min and Birgite are just following others' lead for now.

>> No.49406751

Did anyone hope for Rand to give Lanfear a lawful good dicking?

>> No.49406780

>for now
yeah, for now
if you only look look t the now, you wont find much impressive. the dragon reborn is killing forsaken and fullilling propecies left and right, but right now?

>> No.49406795

Is WoT worth reading at all if the middle books suck and the ending has a shitt writer?

>> No.49406802

Sanderson is better than Jordan

>> No.49406845

I have no idea what you want to say.

>> No.49406945

Let's be real, half of them did die in the last book all at once so there wasn't really any impact felt. I would've much preferred that most of those who died in AMoL had died in earlier books to demonstrate how poorly the Light was faring, and to give a better sense of impending disaster.

This would've both increased the sense of dread and tension in those books, and also allowed us to feel a greater impact at their deaths rather than having a good 10-15 main/secondary characters all die within a few hundred pages in the very last book.

>> No.49409184

>slight curve and one edge
>therefore it's a katana
I see.

>> No.49409338

The Way of Kings by Brandon Sanderson
The lies of Locke Lamora by Scott Lynch
If webcomics also interest you, there is some great fantasy-esque stuff in
Rice Boy
8-Bit theater
Stand Still, Stay Silent

>> No.49410427

Sanderson needs to get book three out, i want some savory dalinar backstory

>> No.49413136

i want to say that til now siuan was pretty neat, as was birgitte.

>> No.49413352
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I never warmed up to Birgitte.

>> No.49413471

neither did I, but i think she's pretty competent.

>> No.49413506

>being this willfully obtuse

I see

>> No.49413621
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>> No.49413635

nope, it's obviously a katana.

>> No.49413661

Sickly little "recovering from the daggers influence" Mat DID beat sense into Galad and Gawain 2 on 1 though didn't he? That was pretty good.

>> No.49413713

It is obviously a katana the same way Mat's spear is obviously a naginata. You have to be willfully ignorant to not realize that's what Jordan was going for.

All of those suggestions don't fit the description Jordan gave for the heron marked blades. He even differentiates sabres later on when he's going on about Saldaean weaponry.

>> No.49413807

My opinion of Nynaeve was an arc, where I liked her despite being a bit annoying early on, then she started to just get annoying, until I stopped reading (I forget what book I was up to) where she actually started doing things and "maturing" I guess where I started liking her again. (even if she did still do dumb things, but that was par for the course in a series where literally two of the most important characters were in 10 feet of eachother repeatedly but refused to trust eachother enough to reveal it.)

>> No.49413813

The only details they have in common is a curved one sided blade. With the crossguard Tam's sword has more in common with a cavalry saber. You're grasping at straws m8. You also seem to be unaware that heron marked blades come in various shapes and styles.

>> No.49414098

What were these characters?

>> No.49414118

> crossguard
> cavalry sabre

Okay, I see what's going on here. You don't know what you're talking about.

>> No.49414184

A crossguard is certainly closer to a cavalry saber's handguard than a katana's tsuba.

>> No.49414309

While Perrin was building an army and the queen had run off from her city, she hid herself in his army as a servant (I think it was servant, it's been a while). All the while Rand was off making a mess of things because "I absolutely know how to do politics, I'm the Dragon Reborn."

It did make sense for her not to reveal she was the queen, but I was still a little annoyed because I wanted someone to slap Rand around until he stopped being such an annoying prat (which I did get eventually, and there was a noticeable improvement in my enjoyment of the books), and the queen was under enough misconceptions that she probably would have until there was a chance to explain.

>> No.49414342

Right, I remember now. I figured it was just because the reveal would force Jordan to actually do something with Perrin besides have him fuck around in the woods for seven books.

>> No.49414545

The big thing I remember was that despite Mat being a horrible human being, his bits were entertaining due to being devoid of relevancy to Rand's whole "Give the throne to the daughter, because he thinks the queen is dead" "Elayne is insulted because nobody 'gives' the throne away" "the queen thinks Rand killed Elayne".

While Mat was off flirting with a different queen (and getting bullied, which is funny because unlike other characters, Mat deserves his suffering), and doing better at the warband thing than Perrin was.

>> No.49414779
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>> No.49415039

>when Rand accidentally triggered the mass suicide of literally everyone on Tremalking

good times.

>> No.49415058

wtf, that was a thing? What book?

>> No.49415092

I can't remember if it's after the cleansing of Saidin or after Rand destroys the access key, but the giant Choeden Kal statue which was buried on Tremalking lit up while it was being used. This fulfilled some prophecy of the island inhabitants that the second Breaking / Last Battle / end of the world was nigh, so they all commit ritual suicide. It's mentioned in some throwaway line that a Sea Folk ship went there and just found everyone dead.

>> No.49415138

...I somehow remember that line about them being all dead. Weird. Thanks, btw.

>> No.49415770

Functionally a tsuba and crossguard are more similar

>> No.49417574

>Black Tower

This is going to backfire on Rand spectacularly, isn't it?

>> No.49417649


>> No.49418940

With a name like that, what do you expect?

>> No.49419319

With all the foreshadowing how shit will hit the fan with the Black Tower, I was hoping the writer will surprise me and NOT make turn into a disaster.

>> No.49419474

hey, there ware plenty of ashman on rand's side, in the end.

>> No.49419526

I don't know about weeaboo, but he's definitely a shit writer.

>> No.49420366

Black tower had two of the previous false dragons.
Spoiler is one of them backfires, other works out very in the light's favor.

>> No.49420464
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still better than the ones you like.

>> No.49420502

Given the fact the man was about 30 when he wrote WoT I'd say no.

>> No.49420629

Considering how much Christian shit, Hindu shit, Tolkien shit and Medieval shit he used as well, I'd say Japan was far from the biggest inspiration.

>> No.49420670

Fuck Kvothe and his possibly unreliable narration.

>> No.49420723

Sanderson is actually pretty good. That said though, he is rather boring after a couple of books.

>> No.49420747

im 29 and i watch anime all day every day.

>> No.49421179
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anybody got any recommendation for older "innocent" fantasy stuff that is quite obviously derivative to a certain extent, just pure sword and sorcery and escapism?

>> No.49421466

It's super important to remember that Kvothe is a ducking bard recounting his tale to a biographer. If only half the shit he claims is bullshit he's decent but who knows how much is actually true? Remember the only times we see old Kvolthe do anything he's usually getting the shut kicked out of him like he's not impressive. I used to scoff and think the shit was stupid and over the top right until I remembered that and then I realized how clever it was.

>> No.49421494

Unless you like autistic levels of worldbuilding, In which case, Stormlight Archive is a wet dream

>> No.49421590

World building is the best part of fantasy. Fantasy gives you a blank slate to build on. Why would you ever just make expys when you could make totally unique shit?

>> No.49422350
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>tfw you pick up a new fantasy book and it turns out to be shit

Title of "free the darkness" was a red flag, but I was a starved fool.

>> No.49423067

>The Assassin's Apprentice
Hobb likes to really put her characters through hell and back and through hell again.

>> No.49423151

I think she was the most sensible character in the books

Everyone else was a fucking tard.

>> No.49423988


Perrin looks operator as fuck.

>> No.49424521

>____ is going to backfire on Rand spectacularly isn't it.

I haven't read the whole series, but I'm pretty sure the answer to that question will always be yes. To anything, Rand doesn't even have to be in the vicinity for that to happen.

>> No.49426609

You're a weeb because you where young when anime exploded during the late 80's and early 90's. Jordan was older when that started to become popular.

>> No.49426738

I have no real grasp on their quality relative to other fantasy books, but I enjoyed the King's Blades series.

>> No.49428431

>who knows what reactions will be now?
The same they've always been since time began

And the people in between won't talk about it at all.

>> No.49428675

No, I hoped he'd give her a lawful neutral dicking after growing tired of his the shitheels that fill his continent.

>> No.49428689

>This is going to backfire on Rand spectacularly
Story of Rand's life m8

>> No.49428751
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>> No.49429457
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So, how does everyone rate the big three Ta'varen?

>> No.49429703

In terms of what?

>> No.49429739

Just as characters.

>> No.49429777

Mat's the best. Perrin starts good but gets derailed into nothing. Post-Two Rivers return he gets boring and it feels like Jordan didn't have a clear plot thought out for him. I like Rand but he gets harder to read the more he starts going crazy and suffers.

>> No.49429887

Perrin is definitively the weakest.
Between Mat and Rand I'd say they are about equal.

>> No.49430207

As characters? Rand weakest, Perrin my favorite, Mat as the most fun to read.
As pure power? Mat and Perrin tied, Rand winning. Hard.

>> No.49430258

IMHO, I think it's mainly because his illness flared up during that period, which caused most of books 7-10 to be effectively written by his wife, which also might explain why the dip in quality. Book 11 was his last gasp of air and burst of creativity before he shuffled off the mortal coil.

>> No.49430326

Mat's a shitheel, Perrin's too whiny, Rand is crazy.

>> No.49430771

Personally, I'm irritated at how Rothfuss spent 50+ pages in his magical realm of fairy sex with the hottest woman around, and skipped over a kickass pirate adventure filled with feats of ingenuity and daring and greatness in a single fucking sentence.

Also, Kvothe should have told Meluan Lackless who his parents were in WMF. She's his aunt, the moron.

>> No.49431262

While on the first trilogy, i enjoyed perrin the best of the three
That said, once Mat becomes the GOAT character nothing is ever the same in terms of fun, and perrin getting boring doesn't help his case either
Rand is not a bad character at all but just can't compete with how fleshed out as a "normal" human mat is

>> No.49431303

I hate Mat's character because he got good characterisation, but he's always fun to read (he deserves his suffering, and gets awesome moments too).

I like Perrin as a character despite it falling apart and only getting one or two chapters a book where he actually gets something interesting (that he doesn't pursue because Faile) and his whole "thing" just doing nothing at a certain point (I'm still not fucking sure what purpose Berelain serves after Perrin very firmly and repeatedly says "no, I'm picking the falcon/hammer" and doesn't even seem tempted).

Rand just pissed me the fuck off in all respects after the Aiel stuff, where he walks around acting like he wasn't just given a quick lesson from Moraine about politics, with the only justification for his actions being "I'm the Dragon Reborn!" or "I'm doing what I must for the good of everybody" and just acting like a petulant child.

Then that one Aes Sedai shows up and treats Rand like the child he is and calls his bluffs on "you should fear me blah blah". I'm pretty sure she's going to turn out to be evil at some point, but I stopped reading before it happened if it does.

So Mat > Perrin >> Rand

>> No.49431761

>I'm pretty sure she's going to turn out to be evil at some point
She doesn't.

>> No.49431804

>with the only justification for his actions being "I'm the Dragon Reborn!" or "I'm doing what I must for the good of everybody"
You say that like those aren't good justifications. Rand is literally the only person who looked at the big picture. Everyone else (besides two rivers crew) was too busy with petty squabbles and protecting their power to work towards preventing the imminent doomsday.

>> No.49431890

And Moiraine. You know, the one trying to save the world from day one.

>> No.49431910

Can we all agree that the romantic subplots are all shit?

>> No.49431913

My problem with "I'm doing what I must for the good of everybody" was that he wasn't even trying to just "do good". Most anti-heroes go through at least a short hero stage first, before jumping into "the ends justifies the means" level, but Rand just seemed to go "okay I'm the dragon reborn... I guess that means I've got to be a dickhead.". It wasn't all bad, "I'm the Dragon Reborn!" is great for intimidation factor, but when he pulls it on people he should be trying to get along with instead of intimidate, it makes him seem like an ass.

Which was pretty good characterization if he was SUPPOSED to be making mistakes and being overly reliant on his title, but it really seemed to just make the other plotlines stagnate, and rehash "no this group too, thinks he's the bad guy" constantly. It's why I liked that Aes Sedai that didn't give him the time of day, she reigned him in just enough that he actually seemed to be thinking things through.

>> No.49431921

What was the point of Cadsuane anyway? She said that she wanted to nock Rand down a peg, but he's fairly modest for the savior of mankind and she just seems to pop up randomly to be a cunt. I haven't gotten around to reading the sanderson books yet, does she play a more prominent role?
Oh, yeah. Her too. Maybe the wise ones as well.

>> No.49431943

It seems we have incompatible interpretations of his character, would you mind posting some examples of when you thought he was being a dick?

>> No.49431950

As I mentioned earlier, wasn't Berelain supposed to be important to Perrin's destiny? Maybe I didn't get far enough in the books (or just missed it completely), but it went from "prophecy of Falcon vs Owl(I think)" to "He picked Falcon because Owl was completely un-involved with anything" and finally "Owl won't stop pestering him despite him already picking Falcon".

I did kinda like Mat and Tuon, if only because it happened by accident and to piss Mat off.

>> No.49432030

It's been a while (and I'm the anon who doesn't remember what book he's up to), so I don't actually remember a lot of the specifics. And thinking about it I can't actually remember any actual moments where he was unusually dickish.

Everything I remember disliking was after he "took" the throne in the capital, and everybody in the world went "oh no the Dragon Reborn took the capital... oh he doesn't want the throne? THE HORROR he's so horrible he doesn't think the throne is worthy of him! Also he probably killed the queen, or her daughter or something and can't be trusted." I'm pretty sure he seemed pretty aggressive to some Aes Sedai or political ambassadors or something that showed up instead of trying to stop them worrying about him being a tyrant, despite them not having done anything to provoke him yet.

It's one of those things where it just kinda bothered me that he didn't seem to be trying to be anything but the dragon reborn, sure it's reasonable to get mad at Aes Sedai meddling, but at least try to be civil until they step out of line. I actually can't remember anything concrete though, so it might be worth a re-read through some of the books, I just know how thankful and happy I was when that Aes Sedai showed up and kept pinching him on the butt whenever he "stepped out of line", and he calmed down a bit, everything after that was fine with him though.

>> No.49432041

Remember he was going insane at this point.

>> No.49432088

Yeah, I definitely remember waiting for the ball to drop on the "going insane" thing, because he still seemed to be normal Rand, just occasionally talking with the voice in his head (mostly shouting it down) and dealing with what at the time seemed to be budding paranoia.

Maybe the progress of insanity was a bit too subtle for me at the time, considering I guess I just saw it as him suddenly deciding to stop being nice, to anybody really. My friend who told me about the series kept telling me that he was going to go insane, so I guess I kinda overlooked it thinking it was still "going to happen" and it was building tension.

>> No.49432496

>Rand is literally the only person who looked at the big picture.
The problem with how he looked at the big picture was that he started looking too big, and was trying to fulfill prophecies (like the fake "kneel to Crystal Throne" one) while going insane at the same time.

He needed to be less domineering, and instead just... be.

>> No.49432505

Moiraine basically wound up as the only one he trusted, but that was largely because she swore an oath to obey him and at the time he was going on another rant at her Lan finally had enough and pulled him up short.

Moiraine also best Aes Sedai, though.

>> No.49432531

>just occasionally talking with the voice in his head (mostly shouting it down)
The voice in his head is a part of the insanity, that was confirmed. It also actually is Lews Therin speaking, maybe the madness bleeding through and breaking down the barriers between Rand and his previous incarnations.

Lews Therin only started speaking AFTER he entered Tel'aran'rhiod to fight Rahvin, remember, and where do the Heroes, including the Dragon, wait in between their reincarnations? In Tel'aran'rhiod. I think there has to be some sort of connection there.

A big part of his growing insanity was also the list he kept of women who had died for him, starting with Moiraine. He recited it over and over like a mantra of madness, and it started hardening him because he thought he had to be hard and not feel anything to win. Min mentions in Book 9 that she can feel him hardening from the stone he was to basically riven iron through the Warder bond.

>> No.49432576

I knew it was Lews Therin and that it was PART of the insanity, just the fact that for the most part he didn't seem swayed by the voice much more than getting increasingly angry at it, and I suppose I was waiting for it to burst.

I did forget the list of women who had died for him though, which I suppose I just overlooked at the time. Insane Rand was still my least favourite part of the books I've read though, I'm not saying it doesn't make sense, or wasn't justified. I just didn't enjoy his chapters for the most part.

>> No.49432621

It starts bursting around book 10-12. Lews Therin even starts being able to channel the Power through Rand, unless Rand starts channeling first. Which of course accelerates the madness.

>> No.49432711


I THINK the last big plot relevant thing was the cleancing of Saidin/dar (the male one). Also Perrin found some tower in the wolf dream after following some guy or something (that feels like it was much earlier, and just never got pursued as a plotline yet). I have no idea what Mat was doing, his thing with Tuon had finished though. Galad had got his heron-marked blade in one of the epilogue bits I think. So if any of that helps understand around where I stopped reading and my opinion comes from, there's that.

>> No.49432746

>I THINK the last big plot relevant thing was the cleancing of Saidin/dar (the male one).
Yep, right after that is when Lews Therin starts taking more and more control and bleeding through continually stronger.

>> No.49432814

I'm looking for a new stupidly-long fantasy book series and I'm considering Wheel of Time. How big a deal is the gender-bickering thing? I've heard that it's basically nonstop
>girls are so silly
>boys are so dumb
from every character 24/7 but I don't know if I'm being memed. I think I'd find that uniquely tiresome.

>> No.49433014

It certainly has its flaws, but it's still one of my favorite fantasy series. The gender thing is very noticable, but it's very much worth putting up with for some of the characters. Mat >>>> everyone else.

>> No.49433039

Anons, you would overreact too when the women who've you treated cordially put you in a box and take you out only to beat your sorry ass 5 times a day.

>> No.49433153

It's constant. I'm on book five and I'm considering just quitting cause I don't think I can deal with another chapter ending with Nynaeve/Egwene/etc contemplating whether or not men exist solely to annoy women
I don't get all the Mat love. When does he stop being garbage?

>> No.49433200

Not him, but he pretty much treats Moiraine like shit until she swears an oath to not try to stop him if/when he goes full retard, and even after that he just sort of treats her more like an annoying servant than an advisor

>> No.49433228

To be fair, she only swore that oath because she finally realised, after seeing the future with those pillars, that continuing on as she had been wouldn't work because he didn't trust she wasn't manipulating him, and that she was going to get fucked over anyway (and didn't have much time left). It was desperation that drove her to do it.

>> No.49433233

In my experience Mat never stops being garbage, he just starts doing cool stuff and getting caught up with people who give him shit for being garbage. His personality also shuts down a lot of bullshit simple manipulation people try to use in the series. By pure virtue of him wanting to tell everybody to fuck off.

>> No.49433276

His character shifted to "I'm the dragon reborn, deal with it" after he drew Callandor and just got progressively worse. The thing I didn't get though is why that whole period of going from Rand to Dragon was just skipped over. For like a whole book it was just a "where in the world is Rand?" adventure and then he shows up and declares himself the savior of everything. It seemed like he was going crazy all the way back then but it was just sort of skipped over.

Also, there was the incident where he decapitated the female darkfriend that he met on the road. The thing was, it wasn't all that clear she actually was one. Does anyone remember if there was some kind of confirmation on that I'm forgetting, or whether he'd just become a paranoid loony?

>> No.49433514

>Everything I remember disliking was after he "took" the throne in the capital, and everybody in the world went "oh no the Dragon Reborn took the capital... oh he doesn't want the throne? THE HORROR he's so horrible he doesn't think the throne is worthy of him! Also he probably killed the queen, or her daughter or something and can't be trusted." I'm pretty sure he seemed pretty aggressive to some Aes Sedai or political ambassadors or something that showed up instead of trying to stop them worrying about him being a tyrant, despite them not having done anything to provoke him yet.

I'm reading this part now (or right after it). Remember, that Aes Sedai visit happened soon after Allana bonded him as Warder without his consent, which all Aes Sedai consider to be equal to rape. The guy was already on edge because of that.

>> No.49433534

He was asking for it

>> No.49433614


Not his fault Allana is a thirsty slut.

>> No.49433881
File: 673 KB, 1680x1050, Boke!.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

It's better if you think of pic related instead.

>> No.49433894

>While Mat was off flirting with a different queen (and getting bullied, which is funny because unlike other characters, Mat deserves his suffering), and doing better at the warband thing than Perrin was.
>Mat deserves his suffering
Mat never raped anybody!

>> No.49436892

inb4 4o4

>> No.49437085

Perrin's hammer was actually notnunchucks, debate me

>> No.49437155

>using nunchucks as smithing hammer
i propuse middleground- hammer chucks.

>> No.49437215
File: 80 KB, 807x711, rf_shino2.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

>perrin must choose between the hammer-chucks and the axe-chucks.

>> No.49437416

the two birds ware faile and manteheren, and they waren't ighiting each other but working together to bind him. faile wasn't in min's visions.

>> No.49438422
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>> No.49438450
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>> No.49438470
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>> No.49438509

>because he didn't trust she wasn't manipulating him
Which is smart because she was that whole time

>> No.49439667

>looks like a vagina
>didn't notice til now

>> No.49441965

He needed to be more domineering instead of letting literally everyone in ten feet scheme and plot.

>> No.49443820


Because if she's not furiously tugging her braid at anyone who makes her angry (which is everyone in sighting distance), she's tugging her braid in apprehension about Moghedien getting even, or she's tugging her braid out of frustration at not being able to channel when she wants, or she's tugging her braid because she's angry at Lan for making her moon over him. The inconsiderate prick.

>> No.49443902


Nah. Verin is.

>> No.49444292

I disagree with you, but respect your alternate opinion.

>> No.49444307

I hated Robert Jordan to death.

>> No.49444356

Nynaeve ends up a submissive, though. Sort of.

That Sea Folk wedding, mang.

"One is dominant in public and must be obeyed as such, the other is dominant in private and must be obeyed as such."

>> No.49444514

What about after death?

>> No.49444562

Not to the same extent as before, but yeah he's still a bastard. At least he can't string along his readers now that he's worm food. Wheel of Time was the first series I ever rage quit. It is also the main reson I refuse to get involved with Game of Thrones.

>> No.49444582

>It is also the main reson I refuse to get involved with Game of Thrones.
he did you a favor than.

>> No.49445483

>World building is the best part of fantasy

This, why even write fantasy if you aren't gonna pour blood and sweat into the "fantastic" aspects of the setting you are creating? Plots? Character Arcs? 9/10 times when I want those I find superior versions in Lit. Fic. Fantasy is for intricate magic systems, laboriously described creatures, and detailed fictional histories of make-believe kingdoms

>> No.49445761

Both genders were absolutely fucking retarded, and i'm pretty sure watching them all discredit each other based on gender nearly gave me an ulcer....still read them all though.

>> No.49446600

Nynaeve was my first experience with "Angry at Lan for making her moon over him, the inconsiderate prick." characters, and I found it hilarious and really liked it.

>> No.49447806
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>> No.49449589

Do you not know that the Yin Yang symbol was first a Roman symbol?

>> No.49449820

The taijitu is Chinese anon

>> No.49451841

I made it up to about book 8 before I threw in the towel and couldn't take it any more.

Malazan Book of the Fallen >>> Wheel of Time

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