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47495703 No.47495703 [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

Do you guys allow vaping at the table? Why/why not?

>> No.47495725


D&D generally revolves around a group of friends who get together to play. People who vape have no friends, so this is essentially a non-issue.

>> No.47495772

Sure. Shits cool, usually the host let's us try his different flavors
Fuck you man. Me and my crew love vaping round the table. We got thc oil for it it so it doesn't taste bad like smoking a joint

>> No.47495773

I treat it the same way I do smoking. Not at my table.

Course, I've only ever had one smoker in my group, and he would just have a smoke when we were grabbing pizza.

>> No.47495813


>> No.47495820

Is this a meme? I don't understand this. Vaping is basically inhaling liquid nicotine, why do people treat it like people who don't use coasters or something? I've seen a lot of pictures condemning the practice as gay (like the devices next to cocks) and I can't understand it.

I am neither smoking nor using these devices, can someone from the subculture explain? Is it like vegan hate or something?

>> No.47495822


Also, indoor smokers are the scum of the earth.

>> No.47495885

Vegans are whole another level of obnoxious.
But essentially vaping is the new fedora.

>> No.47495903

its a 4chan meme

vaping as a hobby is pretty gay as is spending 500 on a device so 4chan makes fun of it.

not sure how its been tied in to having no friends and being neckbeardy as if anything its more for trashy early 20 year olds, tools and douchebags

>> No.47495941
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>> No.47495947

My friend is playing a Vapeshifter in our modern fantasy game so I allow it as an In Character Prop.

>> No.47495953

I think the comment was only for the sake of making that burn, famalam. Don't overthink it.

Vaping is pretty gay though.

>> No.47495971

A shitload of people in the military vape, it's pretty weird.

>> No.47495976

It's entirely about forming outgroups.
>people who do [arbitrary inoffensive thing] aren't actually persons!
>if I exclude persons who like [arbitrary inoffensive thing] then I can be cool like my friends on the shitpost website!

>> No.47495981


It's mostly the subculture and less the devices themselves.

I've know vapers before, and they basically walk all over every measure of politeness smoker culture has ingrained in smokers. They smoke indoors like >>47495822 points out, blow fog in your face if you take exception, and are generally known for being rather obnoxious about their noxiousness.

Albeit, half the ones I know are mostly clueless and do correct their behavior, but for the most part it seems the culture that's buying into vaping, especially those who didn't get ingrained in smoker culture first, haven't yet learned how to be polite about it. Since vaping is seen as (and branded as) the "less unhealthy" option, it's probably garnering a lot of new nicotine users who otherwise wouldn't step into nicotine use and especially those younger since vaping has had a lot less regulation on its sale and public use.

>> No.47495986

Don't ask don't tell.

>> No.47495995

no question, anyone who is "into" vaping has always been some combination of trashy and poor and huge faggot all rolled into one person.

Without fail they'll have plenty of tattoos and facial piercings and generally they're also ricers as well.

>> No.47496010

Same reason that a lot of them dip: to cut back on smoking.

>> No.47496025

>why do people treat it like people who don't use coasters or something?
Because of vapers who are obnoxious about it and blow "vapor" in people's faces, vape in non-smoking zones, etc. on the justification that it's technically not smoking.

>> No.47496034

>no question, anyone who is "into" RPGs has always been some combination of trashy and poor and huge faggot all rolled into one person.
>Without fail they'll have plenty of unwashed stench and neckbeards and generally they're also sexual deviants as well.

>> No.47496035

Dont really give a fuck.

I wont allow smoking at the table, cigarette smoke fucks with my asthma and seeps into the fucking couches but vape smoke doesn't have the same properties in my experience.

>> No.47496039


Is it bad if you go from cigarettes to vaping to avoid the cancer?

>> No.47496048

>vaping is seen as (and branded as) the "less unhealthy" option
This right here. Vapers are the kind of people who want to smoke because they think it's cool, but don't want the icky bad consequences of smoking.

They're just terrible people.

>> No.47496058

I allow non-nicotine vape at the table, just because I don't want any of it second-hand.

>> No.47496060

There isn't enough data on vaping to know if it is harmful for you or not. It is almost certainly better for you than smoking cigarettes, so yes.

>> No.47496066

Yes, you're still a literally subhuman addict and deserve to be treated like an animal until society collectively puts you down like the weak willed faggot you are.
Also, enjoy popcorn lung you fucking poorfag.

>> No.47496077

good to see we're in agreement

>> No.47496090

You're not avoiding the cancer. You're just summoning it slower.

>> No.47496099

Vape if you want to dude. Dont let 4chan make your fucking decisions for you.

As to pros and cons, no cancer but you burn through that shit real fast. Like I know a lad tried vaping but gave it up because he burned through 2 weeks supply in 3 days.

As a note, if you drink, masturbate or eat junk food of any description, don't hold this sort of attitude. If you're gonna be this condescending, you better be fucking hardcore.

>> No.47496102

Just don't buy cigarettes. Going cold-turkey won't kill you, but it will with booze.

>> No.47496124

I meant, yes it's ok. No it's not bad.

>> No.47496136

No, because you're a faggot if you do something distracting while at the table

>> No.47496146

>drink, masturbate or eat junk food of any description
What do you take me for some half literate inbred low-class poorscum like the rest of these fags and probably yourself?

Don't lump me in with your vices.

>> No.47496157


>avoid the cancer

You're cutting out a pretty large swathe of carcinogens from cigarettes, but unfortunately nicotine isn't least among them. Unfortunately, vapor fluid has a whole new batch of chemicals in it that are much less understood, though a number of them are known carcinogens.

And worse, the companies that manufacture the fluid suffer some pretty terrible problems in batch consistency, many tested samples have inconsistent ingredients, more of some and less of others. Even some non-nicotine fluid batches were shown to contain nicotine, as much as the regular nicotine fluids. As industry oversight catches up to this, we'll learn more and screening will force quality and consistency standards on manufacturers, but for now it's the wilderness of an unknown quantity.

>> No.47496161

Depends on what the fluid is. If it smells nasty, then no. If it doesn't, then no problem.

Unless you're talking about actually vaping weed or tobacco, because that would be a no.

>> No.47496182

Anon, your on 4chan, YOU ARE like rest of us.

>> No.47496183
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Getting shot with a .22 is less lethal than smoking too.
Doesn't mean I'm gonna fire one off in my ass.

You're argument is Shit and you're retarded

>> No.47496211
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He's going to work his way up to cigarettes so he can avoid the damage.

>> No.47496231

Wasn't actually talking to you, dude, just making a general note. Sorry if it seemed otherwise.

As for vices, yes I have mine. Life is for living and I would rather enjoy it than restrain myself from things for a sense of superiority.

I mean, for fuck sake, we're on a board dedicated to playing make believe and/or arm-chair general in groups of varying sizes. Unless you're here purely to argue, your argument holds no water. Even TTRPG is a vice.

>> No.47496232

>if you drink, masturbate or eat junk food
Spotted the fedora.

Also fat as fuck or literal twigs.
Normal people don't vape because it's for trash people.

>> No.47496243

It's not an argument, it's just a factual statement.

>> No.47496247

Yeah, no, I'm sorry you and so many others are jealous that I have the money and education to afford to take care of my body.

Take a note, vapefags, the 'we're in this together' mentality is the sort of thing that keeps you people so poor.

>> No.47496262

>Spotted the fedora.

>> No.47496266

Because people who feel the need to suck plastic cocks are all hiding some kind of mental malfunction.

>> No.47496279

>Even TTRPG is a vice
Not my fault the game doesn't lead you to read historical, philosophical, religious, and anthropological material.

Sounds like you need a more engaging GM, which isn't hard if you're around people who got even half of a reasonable education (which won't be found in whatever shitty small town or suburb you grew up in).

>> No.47496283
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>> No.47496288

It's not even that, I know plenty of smokers who switch to it and are suddenly doing it inside and they'll just whip it out whenever as though it was completely different.

>> No.47496296

10/10 reply.

>Anon, your on 4chan, YOU ARE like rest of us.
Not that this attitude is also prevalent in metalheads who take head trauma 'for fun' and wonder why they can't progress past line cook. The overlap could be the topic of a research paper.

>> No.47496339

There is evidence that vaping will help a person quit cigarettes. There is no evidence that shooting yourself with a .22 will help you quit cigarettes unless you die in which case you will quit everything forever.

>> No.47496362

>all tabletop games are D&D
What the fuck is with you people, it's like you really do have brain damage

>> No.47496381
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>> No.47496384

You're in a thread with vapefags, what do you think?

Seriously these "people" are like crackheads but worse.

>> No.47496385

You need to think outside of the box.
>give .22 to another person
>instruct the person to shoot you every time they see you smoking
I'll wager my next paycheck it does help quit smoking.

>> No.47496459

%100 percent positive you have never met a crackhead

>> No.47496470

To be fair the most obnoxious people in the TTRPG scene do seem to migrate to D&D and Pathfinder. My guess being that constantly getting moved along means they only get to play the common systems.

>> No.47496471
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>> No.47496534
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I am beaten.

O, I die Horatio.

>> No.47496544

Vapers are more like crackwhores actually.
They're around but no one wants them except for the people using them to make a quick dollar.
Except of course for other crackwhores of course. Just so they can dish about crack culture and which hole tyrone tore open last time they needed a fix.

>> No.47496593

Because people who vape are like the kids who smoked in middle and high school but about 10 years older.
For the most part, nobody cares, but there's a specific group that makes it their job to make sure everybody cares.
T. Work at vape store

>> No.47496770

Sure, just don't be an asshole about. If we're at somebody's house and they want you to do it outside, do it outside.

It's not like they're smoking a blunt or anything. If they were they'd at least have to share.

>> No.47496865

>degenerate hipster weednigger invited to a game by one of me "friends"
>offers to drive out for food at break, players run with, he gets my players intoxicated
>they get back all red eyed, inattentive, and giggly, game trainwrecks
>wait for them all to filter out.
>memorize stonerfag's license plate number
>phone in a complaint that the vehicle almost ran me off the road and was swerving lanes, inform the police of stonerfag's general location, residence, direction, plates, make, model, etc.
>he gets pulled over
>and searched
>with all that weed on him
>goes to county
>had priors
>ends up he had enough to get sent to the fed for a couple years since he'd been in trouble before

Remember, /tg/, cleaning up society is in nobody's hands but yours and if you don't do your part, more kids are going to end up a waste like my "friends'" jailbird buddy.

>> No.47496869

In my experience, tabletop gamers exert their "alfa male dominance" by their overpowering body odor stench. The idea of someone producing a good smell (be it by vaping, cologne, air fresheners, or other means) is entirely emasculating and offensive to the neckbeards.

>> No.47497022


I don't allow vaping in buildings I'm in. If you need to inhale your satan-gas, do it outside.

>> No.47497049

You better be joking. Getting your friend high during a game was a bit of a dick move, but unless he was doing far worse he doesn't sound like he deserved that.

>> No.47497077

Don't do the crime if you can't do the time, you loser pothead.

>> No.47497083

He was breaking the law. He deserved it or he wouldn't have been sent up to the pokey.

>> No.47497084

>"Good smell"
I bet you sniff your own farts.

>> No.47497098

If you don't want Bubba in your ass
don't smoke grass!

>> No.47497119

A dick move but the guy was obviously already on thin ice. Can't say he hadn't been warned what would happen if he kept smoking.

>> No.47497143

Bet it would smell great if you injected some bleach into the liquid chamber while the vapefag goes to the bathroom.

It'd be such a shame if someone else died from improperly manufactured fluid.

>> No.47497144

>ruin peoples lives
>act like you did society a service

I'll bet you vote democrat

>> No.47497146

>You pothead loser

wow how old are you man lol wow

>> No.47497149

Yeah, because I don't give a fuck. Doesn't seem to be an issue and usually he goes over to an open window or blows it to the side.

>> No.47497157


Then perhaps it IS the device itself.

It should be placed rightly in its place among the fedoras for items which have inherent influence, either granted by memetics or because the function, purpose, and/or design all create a nexus from which influence from without can seep into the individual who communes with or otherwise uses the item.

>> No.47497169

^This, people who do drugs have zero impulse control and will wind up in prison anyhow, the best thing we can do is help along the process whenever and however we can.

>> No.47497178

I don't smoke. Nice projecting though.
I still feel like it could have been handled more maturely.

>> No.47497194

>dude ron weed paul rEOVLution lmao 420blazeit

>> No.47497199

I wouldn't go that far, just that I won't sympathize with you if you repeatably break the law.

Whether I report you or not depends on how negatively you effect me or others.

>> No.47497205

his life was already ruined if he was smoking that shit and driving tbqh fampai

>> No.47497207

That's a very general assumption. Do you think you're being a superhero or something?

>> No.47497213

You're right.
Only children turn people in to the authorities for committing a crime. He should have followed that fucker and gone pure Charlie Bronson on him.

>> No.47497216

He's not the hero people deserve. Or need.

>> No.47497217

>i don't care

That's because you're stupid. This board isn't about smoke or vapour, it's about TTGs. Ring tones don't "seep" into your furniture either, but blasting douche-scented vapour across the table is just as distracting. Vapeheads can vape outside during our regular session breaks just like the group's other "O2 isn't good enough" junkies. I bear them no malice for their weaknesses but, as the SJW poster says - NOT at my table.

>> No.47497224

Not saying it couldn't have been, but I will not sympathize with someone who is forewarned not to break laws again. Just because you personally disagree with the law doesn't mean you should consistently break it. You'll only hurt yourself.

>> No.47497238

no, because i dont want to die in 20 years from inhaling particulates

>> No.47497242

My gf vapes as a method to stop smoking. Device costs $10.

>> No.47497247

You just reminded me I work with asbestos.


>> No.47497251

>Just because you personally disagree with the law doesn't mean you should consistently break it. You'll only hurt yourself.
I hope none of you chums buy your GW minis off chinaman or pirate books :^)

>> No.47497260

He didn't do that, though. He reported a guy who was breaking a minor law indirectly by lying because he was butthurt and wanted to feel like he "Did the right thing.". Whether or not the action was good or not, the reasoning is childish, as is your strawmaning.

>> No.47497263

I heard a blowjob everyday you're clean helps as well.

>> No.47497264

No, I have this little thing called "a sense of civic duty" which used to be important in this nation.

But no, keep smoking your weed and then wonder why crime in your neighborhood is so high or the kids down the block never get anywhere and wind up as opiate addicted truck drivers at 55.

>> No.47497276

on top of this the vapor that you inhale creates smaller particles then smoking does, called particulets, and those are pretty damn harmful to your lungs, your lungs can get rid of smoke sized shit, but not the smaller particles from vapor, they build up and clog your bronchile tubes or whatever up, just as bad as cancer

>> No.47497279

>But no, keep smoking your weed and then wonder why crime in your neighborhood is so high or the kids down the block never get anywhere and wind up as opiate addicted truck drivers at 55.
But I don't live anywhere near blacks or mexicans?

>> No.47497291

>consistently break it
When I get caught and told this s my last chance I will buy them.

>> No.47497296

well /pol/'d my friend

>> No.47497297

do you wear a mask? i used to work at a place that made roofing shingles with asbestos, and the dude next to me never wore a mask

>> No.47497301

People fucking get plowed into all the time by weed intoxicated drivers, like, every fucking day.

So fuck you if you don't want another pothead off the street so he can't plow into a car with an innocent and socially productive family while lost in a giggle fit.

>> No.47497321

I do, I'm a welder.

No cutting, and good supervisors mean I'm pretty safe.

>> No.47497322

I don't smoke, Nobody I've known who smoked ended up a hardcore druggie with no hope, and you "civic duty" would make a great badge to put on your fedora.

You keep on that neighborhood watch, though, Ms. Peggy Hill, you sure are making a difference.

>> No.47497330

Of all the things that never happened, this never happened the most.

>> No.47497340

Never heard of it happening. Heard of drunk drivers, though.

I don't think you've ever smoked weed if you think it means you constantly giggle.

>> No.47497362

>I'm to uneducated to keep current with government research and news!
Try not to wear your ignorance like a mark of pride.

>> No.47497363

He probably has met his mother by now.

That's right, still making yo momma jokes.

>> No.47497412

They're about half as old as yo momma.

>> No.47497421

I don't vape, but I have several friends who do. And that shit smells fucking good. Ten times better than any glade plug-in bullshit. I don't get why people would find vaping indoors rude, because the reasons why it is for smoking is because the smoke is noxious and the smell gets into everything and never leaves. Vape has neither of those issues.

I'm with >>47495976, this is purely about neckbeards trying to feel superior about the scary new things they don't like.

>> No.47497431
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I dealt with it online. In my VOIP group the guy did not stop until the girl he was trying to impress told him to "stop fucking smoking in the mic you stupid twat, only spastics vape."

There is no reason to open up your mic just to blow smoke on the mic. At least people who did smoke had the politeness to step outside.

>> No.47497443
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Depends on the person/house, but overall i enjoy playing with a relaxed group who can drink / smoke as they please.
I play in a group though and one the guys is a asshole/retard vaper who blows in your face, vapes in stores, and wont stop talking about it ... I DM another group though with 3 people who vape(inside) / smoke(outside) who are very respectable with it and have actually turned me onto vaping myself. So i can definitly understand both sides but ..Most people i have met who are against vaping are also against drinking / strong language. . So i would much rather go with a whole group of asshole vapers.

>> No.47497449

forgot how virulent /tg/'s hate for cannabis and tobacco was

>> No.47497463

>Try not to wear your ignorance like a mark of pride.
Do you talk like this in real life? And how was I "wearing my ignorance like a mark of pride"?

Either way, while not very good for you, 12% is nowhere near 40% who drink. But you never tipped your fedora about how any consumer of that vile poison will ever be in your suburban neighborhood, when they can rot in jail for partaking in such evil beverages.

Do you go on /pol/?

>> No.47497466

As always depends on the setting.

>> No.47497474

Nah, this is just /pol/ leaking. Or one or two clever trolls.

>> No.47497478

>Trying to vape to impress a girl
>Literally opening the mic just to let everyone know they vape

Vapers are next level tistic

>> No.47497484


>> No.47497490

>blowing smoke into the mic

my fucking god

>> No.47497492

no i used to come here years ago (2009) and there was constant salt about smokers and weedfags

>> No.47497496

Want to know what I love about weed legalization? Articles like this:

>> No.47497502

Really depends, most people on /tg/ will take offense if you light up at the table (especially in their house) but are fine if you do it outside or away from the group.

>> No.47497517

That's more of a courtesy thing. Regardless of whether or not I'm fine with it, you should ask before you smoke in somebody's house.

>> No.47497527

No, if you do drugs on my property you're getting beat down and held until the police come to confiscate your narcotics and haul you off to where you belong.

You bring legal intoxicants and you'll be asked to leave, once, before I just jump on top of you and beat the dogshit out of you.

>> No.47497535

As long as it's not too strong smelling and you blow it down.

>> No.47497544

I'm pretty sure that's the general conscious on the subject on /tg/ whenever these threads pop up every 2 or so weeks.

>> No.47497546

You overstepped. Now it's too obvious.

>> No.47497547

I'm pretty lax about my table rules. Vapes are fine as long as you're not blowing it into everyone's faces, but don't you dare fucking smoke in my house because that shit sticks, especially to electronics. And if you don't use a coaster, you're out.

>> No.47497549

Please teach me your ways of autism, so that I may be as badass as you.

And then when the cops haul me away instead of the smoker, I'm sure they will be so impressed with the sheer level of testosterone that they'll completely drop the assault charges.

>> No.47497556

Literally all of my friends smoke some combination of weed, cigarettes, and vape. We don't give a shit.

People bring their asses outside to smoke butts, though.

>> No.47497563

How are you still biting? He's made it pretty obvious that he's only pretending to be retarded.

>> No.47497565

>I'm going to let you and your skeevy redneck addictions within 60' feet of my home, wife, or children.
Yeah, no.

>> No.47497566

I'm more generalizing the attitude of /tg/. Of course it differs by the person.

>> No.47497581

Let's be honest here, you don't have any of those things.

>> No.47497585

>not leaving when asked politely
In some states that'd give me license to blow a hole through your chest.
You'd be surprised how quickly family in the police force will make things go when faced with complex matters like self defense.

>> No.47497603

Then your family in the force are shit head criminals. At least the castle doctrine has oversight.

>> No.47497608

>ITT: Manlets trying to troll.

>> No.47497612

>has oversight
Yeah, my uncle :^)

>> No.47497631

The people who do it like that are fine, just the ones that blow it in your fucking face and try to make a cloud over the table and whatnot are obnoxious as hell

>> No.47497635

Who's also your brother.

>> No.47497640
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I know this is all just trolling, but I do run into people with these attitudes sometimes and it's astonishing that people can have such strong opinions about weed, considering I live in like Opiate Capital, USA

At least we grow all our own weed.

>> No.47497679

That just means double the protectionism and nepotism for me, anon.

>> No.47497875

You're an asshole for your sanctimonious "cleaning up society" mindset. That being said, if this did happen (it didn't), you were right to call the cops but you probably did it for the wrong reason. The RIGHT reason to call would be that this moron was driving while high. That is dangerous and will kill people.

>> No.47497876

Because it's pointless, looks retarded, smells horrible, and is really expensive. You're paying money to look like a prick and force everyone to smell your rancid dingleberry juice that you're inhaling. Even the name sounds retarded.

>> No.47497923

If everybody's cool with it, yeah. Because at least it doesn't smell like shit.

>> No.47497931

Your rationalization arouses me, my cognitively dissonant friend.

>> No.47497951

>people who have never been addicted to anything
>people who are currently thinking unclearly due to their addiction

Really it's quite a thing to watch.

>> No.47498003

Only if you're retarded do you not understand ultimatums. I will break minor laws that I personally see no harm in breaking (like jaywalking) if it conveniences me. But if I'm given an ultimatum with the risk of a prison sentence for doing so it's my fault for breaking the law again, and thus because I was retarded I'm getting arrested.

Nor is it like I play 40k or have PDF's. My computer is shit and I enjoy the books more.

>> No.47498036

>>Normal people don't vape because it's for trash people.
Smelling like old ash is so much better, uh.

>> No.47498040

Hope you don't mind my cigars then, friend.
>just got some genuine havanas from my boy, a cuban national
>people bitching about vaping, as though their vice is better than someone else's vice

>> No.47498067

Pretty sure he's saying don't do either.

>> No.47498081

There is a difference between being caught due to your own foolishness, and being sold out by some twat you don't even know.

>> No.47498083

Visible tattoos, vaping, cigarette smoking, lack of coaster use are all general indicators of lower socio-economic class. Some of these indicators have become fashionable among younger people as acts of rebellion. Try not to be trashy.

>> No.47498100

None of my players vape, but I wouldn't really care. Guy at my job vapes all the time and I've been partnered with him plenty of times before. Never bothered me.

>> No.47498122

Yeah, live your life clean, eat your veggies AND your soup, let it go on the belly of the wife when you got your 3 kids, and don't rattle the cage.

>> No.47498130

I only attend one con a year and that is GenCon. Disguisting smokers at every exit. Degenerate fatties and retards (not in costume) that dress like white trash scum (shop at Hottopic). Often am I ashamed to share some of the same interests as these "gamers".

>> No.47498139

Griping about social morays, economic status, habituation, and "proper" rather than good taste is generally indicative of a lower to middle class individual trying to signal as though they are high class despite not realizing that the people they're trying to score hypothetical points with don't give a shit about tattoos or coaster use or what college you went to because they're engaged in an entirely different sort of status signaling involving who can buy the fastest racehorse or which obscure Mediterranean island they vacationed at this summer.

>> No.47498147


Are you trying to say smoking for vaping is some sort of act of rebellion against societal norms and those that do it are bad ass rebels?

>> No.47498149

Nice trolling, or severe retardation. The guy was smoking and driving, could be seen by anyone, the guy got high in front of strangers who's to say they won't dob him in.

In no way is anyone else responsible to help you break the law, if they choose to report you it's not on them it's on you. If you're on thin ice be smart enough not to expose yourself committing crimes.

>> No.47498170


Im not trying to score points with rich people. I am trying to identify scum I would prefer not to associate with. The scum may in fact be good people but they purposely choose to mimic behaviors of deviants.

>> No.47498177

Good post.

Not at all.

>> No.47498186

Thank god cannabis has been decriminalized in my county.

>> No.47498200

>The guy was smoking and driving, could be seen by anyone, the guy got high in front of strangers who's to say they won't dob him in.
Except none of that happened, anon.
You are using hypotheticals to justify your own twaterry.

>> No.47498209

Weed's no more harmful than alcohol or cigarettes when treated with the same level of responsibility as those two substances are. So are you just a holistic, teetotaling prick or is your only justification for hating marijuana its decreasingly controlled status? Either way you're an idiot.

>> No.47498233

Motherfucker. You are on /tg/. You have no room to talk. You ARE a deviant, and a pretty big one at that.

>> No.47498236

I don't have a vice comparable to vaping. My biggest vice is indulging in junk food or masturbating, neither of which directly affect other people, or my presentation of myself, as vaping does.

>> No.47498271

Then why are you speaking towards a higher class of individuals, given your use of "scum"?

You're obviously not concerned about the scum, so telling them they're scum and you don't want to associate with them matters zero to the equation.

The only people who would actually care are those who see themselves as both above the people you're talking about and above you. You're either fishing for peers or adulation from those up the totem pole.

Now, what's interesting, is that unless you're obscenely wealthy or otherwise high strata, you're probably complaining about scum with a shelf of novelty glasses somewhere in the house, two or less bookshelves with little to zeroFerdowsi or Tantraolka or other "fine" literature, a toolset, multiple video game systems, maybe some model minis and display weaponry in your room, and other markers of "middle class" status which to be quite honest doesn't sound any more appealing than rednecks or hoodrats.

>> No.47498279

>degenerate hipster weednigger invited to a game by one of me "friends"
>offers to drive out for food at break, players run with, he gets my players intoxicated
>they get back all red eyed, inattentive, and giggly, game trainwrecks
>wait for them all to filter out.
>memorize stonerfag's license plate number
>phone in a complaint that the vehicle almost ran me off the road and was swerving lanes, inform the police of stonerfag's general location, residence, direction, plates, make, model, etc.
>he gets pulled over
>and searched
>with all that weed on him
>goes to county
>had priors
>ends up he had enough to get sent to the fed for a couple years since he'd been in trouble before.

The guy did.

>> No.47498281


I'd hardly call tg/ a deviant board but very well. My deviance is not on display like smokers and vapers.

>> No.47498291

B-but what if my only vice is a love of cream soda?

>> No.47498296

I didn't say I am cultured. I am firmly middle class. What I am not is tattooed, smoking, fat, white trash.

>> No.47498301
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>> No.47498304

As it is in mine. But the principle stands, it's your fault if you break the law, even more so if it's repeatably. Others will not cater to you and if you want to avoid jail time don't expect that everyone will.

>> No.47498315

This is a reasonable point of view.

>> No.47498324

That is the subject of my posts. Perhaps you've mistaken me for someone else.

>> No.47498337

>mistaken me for someone else.
>anonymous message board

>> No.47498340

Unless you're the 1%, you're always a trash person to someone.

>> No.47498341

>literally perjury
I see, I see.

>> No.47498344

Thank you.

>> No.47498398

It's from the post earlier up. Basically fault was in the stoner, in no way is anyone else obligated to protect you if you break the law. The guy was a bit of a dick for reporting him but don't expect sympathy if you don't change your behavior when jail time looms over your head.

>> No.47498399

Nothing wrong with smoking and vaping until you're doing it around people that don't want to breathe the tainted air. Hate to cite something as shitty as Wicca but "An it harm none, do what ye will." is a pretty solid code to live by. Is the person that smokes/vapes in a location that will prevent secondhand from getting to people that don't want to get it harming anyone? No. Leave 'em alone. Criticize them for something other than the actual vaping, such as their pretentiousness (if applicable).

>> No.47498411

It's not about reporting him, it's about lying to the fucking police.

>> No.47498421

I hope you realize Gardner cribbed that phrase from a smoker, drinker, heroin shooter, cocaine sniffer, peyote eater, pothead, and prolific bisexual.

>> No.47498438

But it's not lying.
>dude was driving intoxicated
>report him for driving intoxicated
>punished for driving intoxicated
This isn't rocket biology, anon.

>> No.47498440

Oh yes there is that, one of the reasons why the guy is a dick. I thought you were talking about reporting him as that's what everyone else bitches about.

In reality the guy could have just dobbed him in without a fake cover story. Retarded to throw one on for no reason.

>> No.47498474

Oh no he was, it's one of the reasons why he's a dick. Claiming that stoner almost ran him off the road. Still not going to sympathize with someone for getting caught doing something illegal and avoidable.

>> No.47498496

>there are people
>right now
>on this board
>as we type
>who would willingly
>gladly and eagerly
>purjur themselves
>to facilitate the imprisonment
>in a federal institution
>of fellow gamers
>for the felony crime
>of possessing a plant
>more harmless than alcohol
>or tobacco
>in their general vincinity

>> No.47498532

No, but I will not sympathize with you if you get caught repeatably breaking the law.

>> No.47498545
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allow anything as long as you dont spill it

>> No.47498559

It wasn't under oath, so it wasn't perjury.

>> No.47498566

>good smell
I wouldn't call them good. Not really bad, but more like an unpleasant version of a good smell.

>> No.47498570

Rock that misfit shirt buds.

>> No.47498576

Vaping smells vile, and gets this gross residue on everything that the vapor touches. Despite that, entitled assholes feel like they should be able to vape whenever they want.

>> No.47498647

>57 posters, 181 replies
Jesus Christ Timmy that's a lot of fucking salt, can you show me on the doll where the bad vaper man touched you?
You fucking come off like some guy blowing vapor bum rushed you into the handicap stall and had his way with you.

>> No.47498673

Okay? It's also a notion that extends back to the Declaration of Independence and likely far further back as well. That prestigious enough for you?

>> No.47498710

Honestly I dislike Vapefags because they act like they're hot shit and they are free of the restrictions smokers have despite it being the same shit.
When I worked at a fast food joint last year, there was a vapefag who would come in every day and blow that shit at everyone and try to be super cool about it. Like a long, overly drawn out exhale that took like 20 seconds.
He was at least 80 pounds overweight, and wore a Trenchcoat even in the summer.
The worst part of it is that he kept blowing that shit in my face too.

>> No.47498711

Back to Augustine ("Love, and do what thou wilt"), I'm just saying the guy (Crowley) most responsible for popularizing any iteration of that phrase after Gargantua and Pantagruel can be described as many things, but an advocate of conventional morality or adhering to laws ain't one of them.

>> No.47498729

It's like cyclists. You're on the road as well, just because you're not a car doesn't mean you are free from the road rules.

>> No.47498759

>Honestly I dislike /tg/fags because they act like they're hot shit and they are free of the restrictions video gamers have despite it being the same shit.
>When I worked at a fast food joint last year, there was a /tg/fag who would come in every day and blow his shitty game stories at everyone and try to be super cool about it. Like a long, overly drawn out tales that took like 20 minutes.
>He was at least 80 pounds overweight, and wore a Trenchcoat even in the summer.
>The worst part of it is that he kept running his mouth while I was trying to get my smoke break.

>> No.47498792

>free from the restrictions
Stopped reading there. Analogy failed, please try again.

>> No.47498823
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>tfw i dont have tattos, smoke or drinkand not white trash, but am a fatty
at...at least i shower every day and wear proper deoderant at all times so im not one of the smelly ones

>> No.47498841

In my years here I'm sure I've seen tens of dozens of people claim to get into P&P games because you get more freedom in them than in video format, but whatever.

My point is that if your argument can have a few nouns yanked out and turned into a form fill, it's probably not particularly strong.

>> No.47498842

Crowley was a moron and, again, I do not have enough time to fully articulate my contempt for Wicca or really any of this other New Agey trash. That being said, the guy it came from isn't really something I, nor anybody else, should care about, I think. You judge someone's character by their actions and ideas, not their actions and their ideas by their character. Doing so would be an ad hominem.

>> No.47498855

I honestly don't care if you're overweight so long as you're hygienic. 10/10 times I'll take a tubby over a skinny smelly guy.

>> No.47498903

>Earned enough credit at Trinity Cambridge for a degree but declined before publishing a corpus of materials that still sees serious academic research through today.
Again, you can call AC lots of things, but I don't think moron's one of them.

>contempt for wicca and other trash
You sound like you're totally interested in a good faith conversation on this stuff.

>> No.47498932

But any argument can have a few nouns yanked out and turned into a form fill.

>> No.47498942

Go pick an article out of the most recent Nature and do that shit.
I'll wait.

>> No.47499058

Sorry that I don't like hoodoo. And I'd consider anybody that literally thinks magic is real to be a moron on some level.

>> No.47499080

As long as he doesn't fog it up so bad that I actually start getting irritated vision/breathing he can mist all he wants. He even does tricks sometimes before the session.

>> No.47499083

Yes, because I play in a garage or outside, and we all smoke except for the one guy who "quit".

>> No.47499107

I don't allow sex at the table, so no sucking your robot dick at my table.

Honestly, though, I've seen some pretty cool vape devices, but you're still not smoking/vaping in my house. If it's your house, your rules, and I won't say shit about it.

>> No.47499117

Lemme guess. He quit so he doesn't buy them, but he will always bum them while y'all're smoking.

>> No.47499122

Well for one you barely sound qualified to speak on the matter.

Hoodoo is of Afro-Carib origin, commonly like Yoruba, Ara, Ifo, Igbo, etc., while Crowley's transmissions tend to come through the grimoire tradition, Golden Dawn, and his time studying Saivism and Buddhism with Bennett in India.

You can have any classification system you like but the bottom line is AC's probably better educated than anybody posting in this thread judging from the Yorke Microfilms, the problems in formal logic addressed by margin notes in Liber 333 and passed on to Russell, etc., whatever else you wanna say about the guy as a person.

>> No.47499223

Don't be pedantic. You know what I mean by hoodoo. The fact that Crowley was well-educated makes it even less acceptable that he was so foolish, as it makes a defense by ignorance impossible.

>> No.47499293

The problem with Vaping is that it was originally meant as a means to quit smoking, but very few people actually use it for that. They just replace smoking with vaping and never stop while thinking that they’ve accomplished something, which comes out in their attitude.

Then there are the dumb fucks who don’t smoke but still start vaping because they want to smoke but are too pussy to deal with the consequences (or some equally or more stupid reason, like as a "Hobby"). It’s also been associated with hipsters/millennials too, so they’ve given it an even worse reputation.

Finally, it's distracting and still pretty inconsiderate. You’re trying to talk to someone and they’re making fish faces and wafting vapor everywhere or even letting it blow in your face “Because it’s safe”.

If you use it for its intended purpose to quit smoking and you’re not a douche about it then then there’s nothing wrong with it, so long as you eventually stop.

>> No.47499324

>It's foolish to be interested in direct apprehension of the phenomenology of religious experience!
Yeah, William James, Aldous Huxley, and Sam Harris seem like rubes too.

I hope you realize there are entire academic fields devoted to studying various religious and magical systems in and of themselves, because you don't get far in studying something when you go "that's foolish" and stopping inquiry.

>> No.47499388

Looking at it from an anthropological or psychological perspective is perfectly rational, scientific, academic, valid, interesting, whatever you want to call it.
Looking at it from a perspective that literally thinks that magic is real is dumb. Magic isn't real.

>> No.47499454

But the anthropological perspective inherently does not care about what anybody but the culture or practitioners has to say on the topic of a given system of magic.

Go take your attitude into an Anth 250 course and see how far it gets you.

>"But magic's not real."

And just fyi, AC wrote extensively on secular and psychological interpretations of occultism as well...it would probably help your rhetorical skills if you were actually familiar with the corpuses of material you dislike so much. Because it's not AC who sounds like the fool in this conversation.

>> No.47499491

>/tg/ poster says spending 500 on a hobby is gay

actually lol'ing

>> No.47499587

Crowley founded a religion and established himself as its prophet. He was either lying to make a name for himself (in which case he's a shitty person) or he actually believed it, in which case he was not studying the perspective(s) of the religious practitioner(s) but rather was one and thus believed in magic, in which case I default to my previous point.

And no, I don't need to parse the incredibly dense and only marginally relevant works of Crowley to know of his belief system in great enough detail to discuss it in an intellectually honest manner. All I care about is whether he actually believed his rituals actually did anything or not. I am /heavily/ inclined to believe he did in which case I again default to my earlier point.

>> No.47499642

>smoking as a hobby
you're right, that's pretty lol worthy levels of pathetic.

>> No.47499689

/d/ is the spiritual sequel to /tg/

>> No.47499707

This is a little known life hack that will help smokers save money

>> No.47499752

Everyone I play with smokes, either cannabis or tobacco, so we don't have any issues.

>> No.47499819

Fuck off, /pol/

>> No.47499865

If you vape at my table I smite you

>> No.47499955

God, I can't wait for the FDA to start cracking down on this shit, so vapers can't be condescending shitheads about how "it's better than smoking"

>> No.47499976

You have to go outside to vape just like the smokers do.
I don't like having a room filled with noxious vape everyhwere.
The smokers may be gross but at least we go outside to smoke, don't blow smoke in peoples face and don't smoke 24/7 like some of these vape dudes.

>> No.47500006

I don't give a fuck what people do elsewhere but you're not smoking shit in my house, let alone my goddamned rec room.
We're here to play D&D, I've provided you with beer and food. You have the entire rest of your day to vape to your heart's content.
Quit acting like a victim and just don't be a rude asshole to your friend.

>> No.47500244

Are you retarded?

>> No.47500336

Vaping shits me to tears. I like the smell of good tobacco, but great voluminous clouds of tangy banana-cherry sodapop get my goat, particularly as vapers tend to ignore any social niceties that have developed around smoking.

>> No.47500407


You're retarded if you actually believe this.

>> No.47500420

>Error 404 argument not found.

>> No.47500428


What about CBD or THC vape?

I only vape CBD, I smoke cigarettes for Nicotine.

CBD is like THC, and gets you high, but is legal in every U.S. state / most of the world, and can only be done with vaping.

>> No.47500465

ITT, teenagers who still believe what DARE taught them and puritanical neocons getting together to share their pant-shitting fear of intoxicants by lashing out with impotent nerdrage.

>> No.47500482

Lawful Neutral

>> No.47500550

I just think the culture is a bunch of weedbro elitists.

If you're looking to get that head start on death/look cool and edgy, smoke if you don't care so much.

Go big or go home.

>> No.47500557

You tried the same bait last time this popped up.

>> No.47500591

LN verging on LE maybe.

>> No.47500649

Same rule as the bar I used to work at: Vaping's fine, but don't be a douche about it. No blowing it in faces or trying to obscure the entire room with epic clouds.

>its a 4chan meme
Nah, it's a meme with normies too. We give all kinds of shit to our friends who are really into vaping, mostly in good fun though.

>I don't get why
There is a sizeable portion of vapers who vape in a douchey manner. I don't really care if you vape indoors, but when you're blowing it in people's faces or making it look like someone threw a smoke grenade in the room it's a bit of a problem.

>> No.47500705
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Shouldn't you be off writing an article for Gawker?

>> No.47500752

As someone who works in a casino as a dealer and deals with smokers and vapers all day I can tell you right now vaping is about 100x times better then smoking.

It doesn't smell like ass
It doesn't linger on my clothes for years
It doesn't give me le secondhand smoke

Seriously, vapers are such an improvement I don't even mind if they blow their clouds everywhere. I'll call you old faithful.

>> No.47500765


>all those vintage cards
>around all those incendiary devices
>not a damn sleeve to be found on the table


>> No.47500791

No, of course not. Don't be a fucking degenerate.

>> No.47500829


What the fuck game are they even playing?

>> No.47501010

Is it that obnoxious in US?
Here everyone vapes and there are no subcultures about this and no one cares.
Are americans just insecure as fuck?

>> No.47501095

Speaking in generalities makes you look dumb as fuck, Anon.

>> No.47501109

Everybody does that

>> No.47501123

Not nearly so open and tactlessly.

>> No.47501292


yes, Americans are just insecure, at least the millennials are, and Americans older than millennials don't understand why they don't just smoke cigarettes / think vapers are pussies.

>> No.47501314


There are designated smoking areas on base. Imagine 4 dorm buildings arranged in a square or something with a courtyard in the middle with a bunch of picnic tables. One of those tables is the designated smoking area for all 400 residents there.

So when it's 30 degrees outside, 0200hrs, and you have to go down/up 2 flights of stairs just to smoke a cigarette, you get lazy with it. Dipping and vaping are popular because nobody gives a shit about doing it in the room.

But then again, I've been out for 4 years, they could have passed new regs banning them in rooms.

>> No.47501317
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>> No.47501322
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Of course I allow it. 3 of us vape, 2 are smokers, 1 is a pothead, everything goes.
We've got the windows open, too.
Some of our players even *gasp* drink beer at the table!

>> No.47501389


mostly a meme, most of the people I know/work with who vape are alright about it. One guy has a flavour that smells awful though, which bugs me. I still wouldn't want it at my table, but I wouldn't insult you for vaping, except for making puns about it.

>> No.47501391

>half literate
Considering you can't into punctuation?


>> No.47501408

>mfw I use e-cig sometimes I need to smoke but can't but turn off the cloud
what now

>> No.47501453

we literally buy pieces of molded plastic and books and pay hundreds of dollars to make them fight each other. when that is your hobby, you cant really give anyone shit about there hobby.

>> No.47501503

>Getting the double team threat of both a nicotine high and an adrenaline high
>Helping you quit

>> No.47501536

For the last few weeks I've allowed it but I recently put a ban on it. 5-6 of them are smokers. 3 are very chronic smokers. One is a broke as shit chronic smoker and I'm 95% positive he's there to mooch weed > play.
The others bring their own shit or they buy it from me.
The smoking has gotten way out of hand though and there's been a few sessions where they've gotten so fucking blitzed on herb/hash that they can't function on any part of the game.
Combat tactics are flat out gone.
Grasping what I just said is gone.
I'm sober and trying to explain shit to stoned people and repeat myself over and over again.
Stoner mooch has been banned from our playing sessions since last week.
One of the other players I don't expect him to show up anymore because he ends up knocking back three six packs in a 3-4 hour period. The seal breaks in around an hour or hour and a half and he's off to the bathroom every 15-20 minutes taking a 2 minute beer piss.
Then his in game judgement goes to shit because drunk him get's shitty drunk guy shitty with NPCs.
Think that one asshole at a bar that gets kicked out because he gets verbally combative with people. But his character's personality shifts from his character to drunk asshat. He's good when he's sober though.
Regardless I put a ban on heavy drinking at the table and he didn't show for last Thursday's game.
So I pretty much knocked the game back down to the original 4 players.
Although I have 2 prospects that have never played and I agreed to let them sit in and get started. They were pretty much met with reluctance at the local shitty game shop from the neckbeards there.
The other players are perfectly fine with new people as well.

>> No.47501550

>Do I have druggie friends
No, god damn it no. Dropped the last friend I had who started using drugs years ago.

>> No.47501559

>this fucking thread
I just want to make a few points that I'm sure everyone has made before:

>If you were a smoker, and you switch to vaping, the vapor is actually MORE unhealthy than smoking regular cigarettes in a volume proportionate to the amount vaped. It's the same reason you don't smoke an ice bong every day, the vapor accumulates excesses moisture in your lungs and that shit will fester/lead to respiratory illness.

>If you weren't a smoker, you're objectively a faggot for pretending to smoke some robot cock. Smoking isn't cool, it's a horrible life-ruining addiction. Vaping isn't cool, it's smoking for faggots.

>I have no problem with vaping personally, as long as it's done outdoors. I smoked for 6 years, and every time I see some fat cringey neckbeard in a "Y so serious?" shirt blow a giant cloud of "vapor" in the middle of a mall, I have an overwhelming urge to call them a faggot in public for making a giant display. At first they were neat because smoking was being pushed outdoors and smokers were treated as second class citizens. It represented freedom and the future, now it just represents try hard faggots who smoke clove cigarettes

>Any "Weed LMAO" posters are just degenerates. Do what you want, just be well informed, and most people who've posted in this thread about vaping thc/cbd really don't understand what they're talking about. It just gives recreational hobbiests a bad name, cut it out.

tl;dr No, go outside like a smoker if you smoke that shit. If you don't, you'll be politely asked to leave.

>> No.47501587

>One of the other players I don't expect him to show up anymore because he ends up knocking back three six packs in a 3-4 hour period.
Holy shit how big is he? I'd be pretty fucking blitzed if I did that.

>> No.47501656
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No, because the fire alarm in my room is sensitive as fuck and having to leave the room because the loud as fuck alarm that be tripping for little particles of vapor is annoying. We suck it up and smoke(or vape) outside.

>> No.47501697


I vape cbd every day,

I don't own thc oil, but I've vaped thc at parties,

how do I not know what I'm talking about?

>> No.47501705

>Not really bad, but more like an unpleasant version of a good smell.
Holy shit you hit the nail on the head. I could never figure out a good way to describe it, but that's perfect.

>> No.47501728

Because you're still lurking a thread about vaping almost 3 hours later, just to try to start an internet argument about your weed related habits. I don't particularly want to get into this discussion, but it's pretty obvious you're either very young, kind of retarded, or a massive try hard. I'll let you pick whichever is the most flattering.

>> No.47501825

If we had a physical table, I'd treat it like smoking at mine. Then again I think we only have one smoker out of all of us, and he usually sticks his head out of the window during breaks so he can still shoot the shit.

A lot of binmen were switching over from smoking too, mainly because it ended up costing less overall and they got their sense of taste back. Not too sure on the cost, but at least they weren't obnoxious with the shit.

I prefer the smell of actual smoke to vapour to be honest; less imposing on the senses. I seriously hold my breath if I see a vaper walking towards me on the street, because much against their constant protests, it does not smell good.
Then again I spent my childhood growing up around smokers, so maybe I just got used to that.

As an aside;
>look at my ebin tricks with the smoke
When you've got that much smoke to work with it's not really impressive desu senpai.

>> No.47501826
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Imagine, if you will, instead of regular vaping device a purpose-build face mask that keeps the vapor contained and filters the air the vaper (is that a word?) is breathing out.
Aesthetically akin to Savlar chem-dogs and such.
Obviously there's the question if it wouldn't impede speech, especially if the person already mumbles.

>> No.47501866

Not a big guy. I'm 6'2 and 180lbs.
The top of his head is up to my chin. I would put his weight at around 150. 160 tops.
It's a damn shame because he's one of the player's dads. Guy's been playing since since chainmail and fell out since 2nd edition AD&D. He shat bricks when I broke out old Karameikos books so he could nostalgia hard. For his bday his son swiped his old favorite character sheet/sketch and had it printed on a canvas for him recently.
Pretty much he's an old dude and likes to drink way too much.
Drinking with him is fun as hell.
So is hanging out and just shooting the shit. He's charismatic as hell and charming.
But at the game table it's caused quite a few problems in game due to dropping character and shifting over to drunk guy mode.
It's a shame it's the way it is but I have other player's enjoyment that's suffering (including his own son).
I've been on the fence about it but it's the lesser of 2 evils really.
The mooch is no loss at all because over the period of the last 6 weeks he's done nothing but disrupt games starting at a very mild level up to last week's shenanigans of purposely killing off 2 other party members plus himself when he was in a 100% death situation (with a neutral good character as well)
So actually a majority of the decision of kicking him was due to his increasingly crappy behavior.

>> No.47501887

>can't think of a witty file name
The spice must flow!

Also, you somehow made vaping both more obnoxious and less obnoxious at the same time. That's kind of neat.

>> No.47502021 [SPOILER] 
File: 485 KB, 2048x2048, 1464518549304.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

Do you guys allow vaporwave at the table? Why or why not?

>> No.47502032

I don't allow people to smoke in my house and I consider vaping no different.

>> No.47502110

No. It's rude to excrete anything from your mouth around other people unless you're all in on the activity. I'm not sure what it is about people and failing to understand this simple etiquette.

Other stuff is only limited for practical purposes:
-Smoking weed outside would be fine if the game at the table is light and not serious. Otherwise we don't need that disruption.
-Smoking tobacco outside won't work since it tracks in the house and causes me and my girlfriend to have an allergic reaction.

Otherwise I wouldn't give a shit as long as it's not going in people's faces.

>> No.47502160

I used to be like you. It terrified me all the time and felt like the world was closing in on me. Everyone was corrupt and I was alone, just with my fear and violent thoughts. Then I got diagnosed with PTSD. It's unclear the exact cause but apparently I acquired permanent trauma about any intoxicant. I got help. With supportive friends and a psychologist, I started Prolonged Exposure Therapy which worked to my surprise. I checked the numbers and PET actually works better than medication or seeing a psych every month for two years.


Get help anon. I know you don't want it right now but when you reach the breaking point just try to remember what I said.

>> No.47502163

Does it count if the only reason I masturbate is to reduce the frequency of wet dreams?

>> No.47502202

As long as he defends his own household and doesn't beat people at street, I don't see an issue. It's not like anybody forces the people to visit him.

>> No.47502231

Saw my first IRL vaper outside of work earlier this week.

An obese neckbeard in god-awful clothes.

Yay stereotypes?

>> No.47502236

i mean just in general anyone who's too much of a pussy straightedge sheeple to not smoke weed 4 times every day isn't worth gaming with in the first place. wake up people, pce

>> No.47502238

A lot of people are really annoying and blow huge clouds right in your face. Back when I was still vaping I went to all efforts possible to not get my clouds in anyone's face. If it's not possible to make sure it's not going into someone's face then I go further away from them.

I did the same back when I smoked cigarettes too. It's really rude to blow smoke in people's faces.

>> No.47502241

Only if it's a cyberpunk campaign.

>> No.47502246

I'm sure vaping is a million times better than smoking, but that is not much of an accomplishment. Smoke is very bad for you, even second hand, but the vapors aren't magically healthy just because they aren't real smoke.

>> No.47502327

No. Because even if it's not cigarettes, I don't want giant plumes of bullshit in my house. If they need to vape, they can step outside and deal with it then, but I aint gonna indulge their addiction inside where it becomes obnoxious and distracting

>> No.47502356

Vapers are bad people because being a vaper reveals a very important character trait, they are terrible with money. They are spending upwards to 200 dollars to get nicotine. I hate smoking, but at least smokers aren't dishing out half their income just to indulge in their addiction. Not to mention the fucking vapers at my work go on about their machines and oils like it's some sports car
>Aw dude, I got that new coil you told me about, aw, dude, it's so great
>Yeah man, I got this new oil too, it tastes like fruity pebbles bro, ya gotta try some

>> No.47502382

Vaping is cheaper in the long run for the majority of people.

People don't just buy one pack of cigarettes.

>> No.47502404

>smokers aren't dishing out half their income just to indulge in their addiction
either you know some strong-willed smokers, or your country has very tame tobacco taxes

>> No.47502409

I know that, I lived with two smokers my whole life, one who still smokes. You're still paying 200+ dollars to inhale nicotine, even if it's a one time payment of that much, it's still stupid as fuck. It would be like buying a funnel for several hundred bucks to drink alcohol.

>> No.47502413

Not disagreeing with you, but wargaming as a hobby can get pretty ridiculous, too. There's been times where I personally have rationalized spending $200 of my own money buying a couple plastic models for a game. If they aren't douchy about it and try to act like a compassionate human being, then they're not all that bad, but if they're the guy who walks into a shop with a huge cloud of smoke surrounding him and makes the entire place smell strongly like fucking maple syrup and chemicals, then they can go fuck themselves.

What am I saying? Vapers are faggots.

>> No.47502421

Both my parents smoked my whole life, one of them recently quit, but they usually bought cartons of cigarettes so they weren't running out to buy a pack every day, and eventually even bought their own cigarette roller to "save money"

>> No.47502427
File: 971 KB, 1250x1000, Notoriety art.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

Hmm, anyone got any pics of cyberpunk type characters with e-cigs/vapourisers?

I think of the cyberpunk smokers I have use regular cigarettes/cigars

>> No.47502465

>It would be like buying a funnel for several hundred bucks to drink alcohol.
Gramps has home distillery, he considers it one of best investments he ever made. I think it might be technically illegal, but as long as he doesn't try to sell the stuff, nobody can notice.

>> No.47502475

I think you can have a home distillery, but selling the product, or making moonshine, is illegal? Maybe?

>> No.47502481

>My point is that if your skeleton can have a few bones yanked out and turned into a bonepile, it's probably not particularly stable.

My point is if your ________ can have a few _______ yanked out and turned into _______ it's probably not particularly ________

My (noun) is if your (noun) can have a (quantity) (noun) (verb) and (verb) into (noun) it's probably not (adverb) (adjective/noun)

>> No.47502494

IIRC legislative on this varies country by country.

>> No.47502533

>a place where nerds call other people faggots for having expensive obnoxious hobbies
Fuck, I love it here. I agree, vaping is analogous with smoking the same way smoking weed is. Go outside unless everyone is explicitly okay with it, otherwise it is not acceptable to smoke inside someone's house. Their clothes/cats/kids are probably strewn about, and I don't think you would want nasty artificial cherry/death smelling thongs, regardless of whether you like to smoke or not.

>> No.47502553

No smoking of any sort in my apartment. If you want to shit in your lungs you do it on the balcony.

>> No.47502585

Smoking is a disgusting habit and vaping is no different. I'd never allow someone so degenerate to belly up to my table.

>> No.47502777

The host should decide wether you can smoke at his place or not.

>> No.47502819

Cyberpunks smoke real cigarettes. Vaping make you look like a retard sucking on a dildo.

>> No.47502869


Same. No room for that or actual smoking inside.

>> No.47502897
File: 737 KB, 1239x1000, raymond flint.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

Huh, that might be a moderately novel way to adapt the old noir trope of using matchbooks to track someone - if it's only the punks and lowlifes who stick to tobacco over the common e-cig, your detective could trace someone through analysing what old-fashioned smokables they use and the detritus they leave behind.
Seeing as cyberpunk likes to rework a lot of noir ideas anyway that's kind of fitting

>> No.47503099

Vic Turner wrote about the psychological efficacious of rituals in his "Ritual Process", which far from being a moron, is still a landmark work of anthropology, used in the classroom.

But I'm sure he's a moron too, and everyone else who doesn't share your *exact* same epistemology or even ontology. Way to live up to your namefagging.

>> No.47503164

>There is a sizeable portion of vapers who vape in a douchey manner. I don't really care if you vape indoors, but when you're blowing it in people's faces or making it look like someone threw a smoke grenade in the room it's a bit of a problem.
Those people are assholes. Why not call them assholes instead of coming up with a pointless, inaccurate shorthand so that you can turn off your brain?

>> No.47503268



>> No.47503276

No. Smell. Irritating vapor. If some one just assumes it's ok then that's a big factor as well, don't assume. If you can't show some basic empathy then you're out of the group.

If you want to smoke then go outside. Seriously though, why even?

>> No.47503281

Can you explain "cloudchasing" and other competitive vaping to me? Is it as profoundly douchey as i seems?

Its because lots of people who vape dont just vape, they do it in ways to try to make themselves look cool, and they spend all fucking day talking about coil packs and components. Its one thing to vape to get a buzz or put some flavor in your mouth, but faggots who make their whole lives about vaping are beyond salvation.

>> No.47503295

Just like we never allow smoking at the table, we never allow vaping at the table.

>> No.47503307

If I was a smoker I wouldn't put my smoked ciggies on display on the mantelpiece of my fireplace.

>> No.47503322

I tried to form your mom as an outgroup but she was too fat to go out.

>> No.47503339

>Blowing sugarsmoke laced with nicotine to look like "cool bob marly 420 cloudchasing dragon smokering lamao, 2020 coildeckpack snapback valve"

Its an obsession.

>> No.47503345

Nah. Shit leaves a bad taste in my mouth from second hand and it makes my living room smell like whatever the flavor of the day was. They can vape outside during breaks though. Not allowed in my car either as it tends to leave this weird dry residue on the windows unless everything is open and it smears when i try washing it off which is a fucking chore as i actually have to squeegee it.
Beyond that i don't care so long as its generally not around me, again that fucking metal and chemical taste at the back of my mouth from second hand.

>> No.47503365

There's not avoiding cancer and so far preliminary findings are that vape chems are more carcinogenic than tobacco.

>> No.47503378
File: 10 KB, 340x175, meerschaum pipe circa 1875.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

What about a fancy pipe?
There are some really elaborate pipes, even if some of them are not particularly practical, and it's not like this is a new thing

>> No.47503396

I would, but there is too much minis already.

>> No.47503413

I don't allow it.

I don't allow anyone to smoke inside, although if the weather is really bad they can stand in the doorway, rather than actually going outside.

But the 'culture' of vapers is stupid. Trying to get big plumes going, or trying to cover the entire table in smog, or blowing it in your face... The complete and utter belief of "But I've given up smoking mang", even if they're now constantly blowing smog rings. The refusal to ask before doing it, because "it ain't smoking, so I can do it indoors. There's no law against it", no matter where we are.
And within about twenty minutes, the entire room has a haze across it, and smells slightly of whatever stupid flavor they're on this week. Also, I had LASIK done last year, and whilst my eyes have basically healed completely, they do still get irritated.

>> No.47503420
File: 1.50 MB, 327x177, fucksgiven0.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

You are the Lawful Neutral hero that we were prescribed and tolerate.

>> No.47503426

It's literally a pointless toy for underclass scum and other undesirables. Nothing used as a toy bu the underclass looks "fancy" you fuckin' trash person.

>> No.47503448

Oh, and about two or three times a night "hey, why don't you get one, without nicotine? That way you can enjoy the flavors!".


>> No.47503459

This is the funniest shit I have ever read on /tg/.

Thank you.

>> No.47503471
File: 468 KB, 462x621, stallonecure.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

I quit smoking cold turkey 3 years ago. I watch people try to "quit" smoking by patches, by vaping all the time fail and go back to cigarettes and cigars.


Because until you have been miserable, throwing up, crying in a bathroom sick while your body ejects all of the shit smoking builds up in you, you will never have a reason to not smoke again. Now, whenever I think "Man, a cigarette would be great" I also think of those two weeks where I felt like I had hired two daylaborers to beat me with whiffleball bats. Then I decide that I'm good.

Also, I'm an alcoholic.

Tell me again how I don't have the right to say "vaping is incredibly stupid" and "you should quit smoking entirely."

>> No.47503487

We play at mine and i always smoke weed when I play. Vaping is allowed (the dude vapes to quit cigarettes, so its douchey but i don't bedrudge him of it). No tobacco allowed tho.

>> No.47503491

As someone who had to go through two lung cancer deaths in the family and had to be treated for it because some assholes can't give up their deathsticks, if you come into my home with anything that has to do with vapes or cigarettes or weed or anything of the sort, I'll tell you once to put the shit away, or you won't be welcome in my home again

>> No.47503495

Its $40 for a basic shitter that "real" vapers will laugh at cause you're a casual. Apparently "real" rigs cost a few thousand not including the $50 vials of "real" liquid. Its one of the reasons that vapers act like hotshit dickbags as they equate it to having a good car or, like the blacks, Nike's new $500 sneakers.

>> No.47503508

Yep, that's miniatures alright.

Oh, were you talking about the pipe?

>> No.47503512

>miserable, throwing up, crying
Someone who never went through nicotine withdraw detected.
Worst it ever gets is a tad headache-y and moody unless you're an incredibly heavy smoker.
>two weeks
Nicotine's gone from your system within 72 hours when the physical addiction symptoms cease. Anything beyond that and you had the flu too and though they withdraws were the same shit.

>> No.47503519

Either, really.
This board is infested with poorfags and other subhumans.

>> No.47503525

Cold turkey fags are still my favorite retard smoker trope.

Pointlessly grim and gritty background with details nobody gives a shit about to make you seem tougher, nobody's as strong as you but ooh noo you're still haunted by your past, still manage to come off as condescending despite being a moron in the first place.

Pssh, nothin personnel kid.

>> No.47503585

You're dumb. It's not the nicotine withdrawal. It's the purging of everything else that comes with cigarettes (you know, tar). I have no idea if quitting vaping cold turkey would be similar but I somehow doubt it.

Hey, fuck you asshole. You've never merited attention in real life and are clearly just searching for it here. I'm trying to help people.

So get the fuck off your high horse, you cock-gargling, ball-licking, nose-squirting thundercunt.

>> No.47503592

>know it all "i have the whole world figured out" fags are my favorite retard gamer trope. Pointlessly edgy and belligerent with complaints nobody gives a shit about to make them seem cooler, nobody's as smart as you but ooh noo you're still a nice reasonable person, but still manage to come off as condescending despite being a moron on the first place. [insert abrasive meme here].

>> No.47503594

Eh, we're all scum here, or else we wouldn't be here.
Of course you're here, so you're in an incredibly weak position indeed to judge.

>> No.47503617

You mean everybody in this thread?

>> No.47503622

You can reply to me when you start making grownup money and living in the real world away from your delusional trash-person habits.

>> No.47503644

Random anon here. Tar's permanent. You don't flush that shit from your system. Ever. Same goes for all those chemicals as well.
This also goes for the chemicals vaping makes. The water vapor and particulates you inhale while vaping and the particulates from smoking also cause permanent scarring of the alveoli. Its the whole "smoking causes permanent damage the first time" thing those cringy anti-smoking ads talk about.

>> No.47503645

No, drugs are bad for you.

>> No.47503688

>Tar's permanent
The entire human body replaces itself every six or so years.

I bet you're the sort of faggot who tells people LSD is stored in the spine forever or makes your brain bleed.

>> No.47503704

Yeah. Nothing wrong with it.

Hell, we sometime smoke weed together, I don't see why vaping would be a big issue.

>> No.47503730

>I don't see why vaping would be a big issue.
You've obviously never seen the sort of insane rage about inconsequential shit that people attracted to /tg/ appear to carry around.

>> No.47503787

Nah. Though alot of the chemicals it metabolizes into have provably sat in peoples CSF for life as well as small amounts of LSD itself that cause those weird highs you get occasionally a few days later as they slowly get metabolized.
you act like the whole lungs inner cell lining just sloughs off or actual deadcells sit in the lungs. The tar stays as the body can't actively deal with that, the dead cells don't as they get broken down when they do die. Try having some actual knowledge on a subject before you splerg.

>> No.47503801
File: 84 KB, 399x689, 1462876774060.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

Vapes are like fedoras for the mouth. I'd rather someone smoke clove cigarettes at the table than bring one of those hideous black-box looking fag-signalling devices to a game. I left California so that I would never have to see the vaporized jew again, I swear to God I will twist your head off like Moonman opening a bottle of grape soda. You could blow pitch-black pipe smoke straight up my ass and I wouldn't mind, but by the white Christ the only oil that will be used at this table will be to lubricate your virgin asshole before I thrust seventeen hit dice worth of Otyughs straight up your feat tree.

>> No.47503802

Tar is not permanent. It can take up to ten years to expel it fully from your body depending on how long you've smoked.

Despite the body replacing itself, many things damaged will not be replaced, obviously. Also, the body replacing itself has little to do with the expelling of chemicals from your system.

t. medical physician

>> No.47503855

There remains no consensus regarding the nature and causes of HPPD or flashbacks. A study of 44 HPPD subjects who had previously ingested LSD showed EEG abnormalities. Given that some symptoms have environmental triggers, it may represent a failure to adjust visual processing to changing environmental conditions. There are no explanations for why only some individuals develop HPPD. Explanations in terms of LSD physically remaining in the body for months or years after consumption have been discounted by experimental evidence. ( http://www.psyn-journal.com/article/0925-4927(96)02833-8/abstract )
LSD is metabolized by the liver, and has an elimination half-life of around 2.5 to 4 hours ( http://www.nhtsa.gov/people/injury/research/job185drugs/lysergic.htm ).

>> No.47503860

It's called Autism. In the real world, not many people act like this.

>> No.47503879

Wait, is this true? Was a stupid kid and smoked a lot, and I've felt an inability to breathe deeply for like a year. I quit after a really bad cold where I couldn't smoke at all, ended up going cold turkey by accident.

Is that normal, will my lungsies someday work properly again?

>> No.47503908

Yep, just takes a while.

>> No.47503934
File: 1.42 MB, 486x273, 1462543752877.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

I will sleep well tonight. Thank you magical /tg/ doctor.

>> No.47503946

If you rip a tendon do you think it will magically repair itself someday because the body replaces itself every 6 or 7 years? Of course it's true, however you should get most of your ability to breathe deeply back. Just don't expect to ever be an olympic level runner or anything. It all depends on the damage you did to your lungs. Everyone's bodies are different.

>> No.47503947

No. Tar is permanent and so are the scars. Your lungs capacity to stretch and its reduced viable surface area will never go away.
However, if you start a regime of cardio and healthy eating you can make your cardiovascular systems ability to readily absorb oxygen better and help it deal with the damage to the heart you caused by strengthening it. It's not a cure but you could achieve normal breathing and oxygen intake after a few years and eliminate most of your increased chances of a heartache. You'll probably never been a marathon runner however and you'll want to avoid high altituded depending on how much you smoked.

>> No.47503965

This. Scar tissue is forever. So is the tar that the body is physically incapable of dealing with.
Seriously just google it there's tons of well documented studies and medical documents on this to back it up.

>> No.47504028

After 12 weeks your lungs begin to recover their ability to self clean. In three months you recover 30% of lost lung capacity, with another 10% through nine.

By the time ten and fifteen years roll around your cancer and heart disease rate is returned to that of a nonsmoker (mostly, your risk factors will be slightly more weighted than others, but the point is it's never too late to quit and get your shit together, don't listen to fags like I'm replying too who tell you there's no point in quitting or you'll always be fucked).

>> No.47504054

Holy shit TAR IS NOT PERMANENT. It just takes like 8-10 years for it to go away. The damage IS PERMANENT. Just fucking google it jesus christ, it's so easy.

>> No.47504082
File: 187 KB, 1080x1080, 1462660215054.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

So, the damage is reversible or at least work-aroundable, and there is some natural recovery factor. That is enough for me. Time to start jogging.

Thanks /tg/. You've restored my desire to live, now I can follow my dreams to preserve a future for our white children without fear of shortness of breath.

>> No.47504107

>doesn't do cardio

>> No.47504142

>intelligent or strong willed enough to do cardio

Don't listen to the brain damaged fucks you're replying to, that shit's permanent and anyone idiotic enough to touch a cigarette deserves the slow painful cancer death they have coming.

Enjoy hospice, shit for brains!

>> No.47504146

Wrong. About 70% of the tar physically imbeds in the lungs. After 10 years what can be taken care of by the body will be gone(30-50%) after that whats left is permanent. You also don't keep getting back lung capacity beyond 5 years (60% at most) this is mostly due to the scars accrued that reduce viable surface area and also inhibit the lungs ability to stretch but also due to the permanent remainder of smoking. As mentioned earlier you can improve what you do have with cardio but like another anon said, you won't be an olympic runner.
Beyond all this i never said its not to late to quit. The earlier you quit, the less damage you take, the better the outcome. I'm just saying the damage done by smoking is entirely permanent and the idea that the body somehow has these magical properties of magical wolverine style regeneration is entirel absurd, it can only do so much.

>> No.47504162

Absolutely workaroundable and good luck on your journey.

>> No.47504215

The fact that the placebo effect exists doesn't justify buying into irrational nonsense like occultism.

>> No.47504269

Also, nice arguments from authority.

>> No.47504329
File: 71 KB, 723x820, 4fa075aed1b57cd056c76aed75f4a2826e818d2777c440d4a57a25898973f135_1.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

It's too late! You have restored my faith. I will write a small section in my autobiography, "The Man Who Was Always Right," honoring you. You will sign it right before you take an all-expenses paid trip on my helicopter pleasure cruise!

>> No.47504389

Your claim is that only a moron would study occultism in and of itself without the need to go "don't exist". I'm simply showing otherwise, and that entire academic disciplines are built around it; if these people are morons, I invite you to start a petition to defund anthropology and comparative religion from universities.

Placebo effect implies the taking of an inert substance under the impression it may be medicinal, and is likely an artifact of regression (progression) toward the mean.

There's serious fMRI work being done in religious states found in Buddhism and Kabbalah, the areas that are activated, and the societal and personal implications of these regions being activated.

Just because you personally don't like the subject doesn't mean the people doing the research are dumb or shouldn't be allowed to just because it makes your feelies hurt.

>> No.47504839

cancer is more a genetic thing.

>> No.47504898

Correction, genetics can lead to a higher risk of developing cancer. Cancer itself is endemic to multicellular life as a whole.

>> No.47505026


>> No.47505108

>without the need to go "don't exist"

>> No.47505139

>calls people deviants
>is a namefag

>> No.47505156

You wanna tell me that playing tabletop RPGs is normal?

>> No.47505184

Your claim appears to be that it's silly to study occultism seriously because it doesn't exist.

Neither does Grendel but that doesn't stop lit and cultural specialists from analyzing Beowulf.

We get it, you think anything having to do with magic is silly but this does not immediately translate into anyone studying it, from an internal anthropological or external secular perspectives, being a moron.

It always amuses me that people who seem to have a problem with the methodologies and studies of comparative religion seem to have no problem with any other treatment of fiction as internally consistent when it's done in a lit department.

>> No.47505204

>being a namefag is normal

>> No.47505207

>posting wew after every reply

>> No.47505220

and yet there you are doing it too

>> No.47505273

>Looking at it from an anthropological or psychological perspective is perfectly rational, scientific, academic, valid, interesting, whatever you want to call it.
>We get it, you think anything having to do with magic is silly but this does not immediately translate into anyone studying it, from an internal anthropological or external secular perspectives, being a moron.
You haven't been reading what I've been writing, have you? STUDYING it is completely valid. BELIEVING it is dumb. Crowley believed that his rituals were IRL magic. If he was simply studying the mindset and internal logic of said rituals, that'd be fine. But he wasn't.

>> No.47505308

> do as I say and not as I do

>> No.47505373

Your first mistake is assuming that I meant deviant as an insult.

>> No.47505423

didn't even read whatever you said

>> No.47505552

No, you seem to be the one who has a problem with apprehension.

My overarching point is that in the study of anthropology and comparative religion at an academic level, study of and authentic participation in rituals are often inextricable.

Also I would reiterate that folks like Crowley wrote extensively on secular interpretations of magic (which is self evident by flipping through AC's Lemegeton or Magic in Theory and Practice) that rely almost exclusively on psychological interpretation.

But sure, tell me more how stupid it is to think that something like occultism works at a psycho-social level.

Just out of curiosity, would you consider yourself an antitheist?

>> No.47505622

>often inextricable

>Also I would reiterate that folks like Crowley wrote extensively on secular interpretations of magic (which is self evident by flipping through AC's Lemegeton or Magic in Theory and Practice) that rely almost exclusively on psychological interpretation.
Yet he still believed the shit. You can look at things from other perspectives without believing those other perspectives.

>But sure, tell me more how stupid it is to think that something like occultism works at a psycho-social level.
No, I think it's stupid to think that occultism works at an objective level, which is what Crowley believed.

>Just out of curiosity, would you consider yourself an antitheist?
Obviously not out of curiosity. But no, I wouldn't. I am an agnostic atheist. I can't say for certain that anything is definitely true or false but, for the sake of not tripling the length of basically anything I say with nigh-meaningless caveats, I will speak plainly.

>> No.47505678

Because these fields are interested in studying cultural modes of action in and of themselves?

>Yet he still believed that shit
And? For over half his life he was a staunch atheist who believed in nothing supernatural while still practicing occultism. He wrote on the topic constantly.

>stupid to think that occultism works at an objective level
So what's your critique of Vic Turner's "Ritual Process"? Why is his seminal text stupid?

>obviously not out of curiosity
K, but oddly enough I'd consider myself the same as you; I just don't think people who think differently from me or who use other analytical techniques are dumb.

>> No.47505699


No. I don't care if it's just water vapor, it also has nicotine in it, so fuck you blowing that shit over me.

Spit's just water with some chemicals in it too, but you don't see me hocking a loogie in your eye.

>> No.47505847

>Because these fields are interested in studying cultural modes of action in and of themselves?
And this necessitates subscription to an unscientific and inherently irrational worldview because...?

>staunch atheist
>practicing occultism
Pick one. You aren't practicing occultism if you don't believe it and you aren't an atheist if you believe in magic, which occultism most certainly is.

>So what's your critique of Vic Turner's "Ritual Process"? Why is his seminal text stupid?
Does it claim that rituals work outside of the human mind? By objective level I mean that the sort of changes that the ritual purports to evoke work regardless of whether someone believes it works or not. This is the difference between healing crystals and penicillin. If I were to perform one of these rituals, would I actually see and effect that couldn't be explained by the inherently calming (and entirely secular) nature of procedure?

>I just don't think people who think differently from me or who use other analytical techniques are dumb.
There is nothing analytical about mysticism. I don't oppose different thought. I oppose irrational thought, and even then only vehemently when it is being pushed, especially when it is being pushed as fact. The notion of magic is unprovable and thus it is irrational, hence my opposition to those that tout it as fact.

>> No.47506042

Yes it is.

>> No.47506115

>And this necessitates subscription to an unscientific and inherently irrational worldview because...?
Let's say you're an anthropologist interested in studying the rituals of a pre-complex culture through immersion in the practices.

Do you:
>A: Engage in a good faith exchange with their culture while trying to make observations
>B: Tell them they're irrational morons for believing this garbage and try to teach them formal logic between observations

You don't get to force your epistemology on them just because you like other alternatives.

>Pick one. You aren't practicing occultism if you don't believe it and you aren't an atheist if you believe in magic, which occultism most certainly is.
So LaVey was lying about his secular and atheistic system of ritual magic? Did he actually believe in Satan objectively or did he not believe occultism worked at all?

>does it claim...objective
Sorry, I'd considered your use of 'objective' as 'measurable' rather than 'tangible'. Social changes and differences in affect can indeed be observed after certain rites.

>there's nothing analytical about mysticism
Over a thousand years of Buddhist and Kabbalistic discourse on the phenomenology of perception and consciousness undermines this position.

Good luck on your rationalist crusade, though, I'm sure you'll be a huge hit with the thousands of comparative religion and anthropology departments across the world.

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