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[ERROR] No.46656890 [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

Pathfinder General - /pfg/

Hail Ole Queen Hale and Vibrant edition

Unified /pfg/ link repository:
http://pastebin.com/YhdxTQS6

Previous thread: >>46648055

>> No.46656942

So I'm going to be in a campaign where literally anything 1pp is allowed.

How do I break Sacred Geometry? Also is Calculated Mind worth it? I want to be as much of an awful person as I possibly can.

>> No.46656988

>>46656942
Anon, think of it this way.

>Do you like the GM and the other players?
If yes, then why are you doing that shit to them?
If no, then why are you playing with them?

>> No.46656992

>>46656942
Why would you do that?

>> No.46657025

>>46656942
>How do I break Sacred Geometry?
Don't use the app.
Also take arithmancy.
Be a wizard or arcanist.
Take false focus.

>> No.46657045

Why does /pfg/ hate rogues?

>> No.46657046

>no Hell's Vengeance game to play in
>my main group won't ever do an evil campaign
>no other groups within an hour's drive
>I will NEVER get to woo Queen Abrogail

>>46656942
Calculated Mind literally makes you worse at the thing it's supposed to improve, that's how bad at math the Sacred Geometry dev was.

>> No.46657058

>>46656988
>>46656992
Because everyone else will be using the most broken thing they can think of, but I like math and none of them do.

>>46657025
What app?

>> No.46657068

How is Hell's Vengeance and Hell's Rebels?

>> No.46657098

>>46657058
There is a sacred geometry calculator app.
You put in what you roll, eventually failure becomes impossible I forget what level though.

>> No.46657109

I wanna play a Cavalier who dual wields Swords and Spears. How would you do it?

>> No.46657112

>>46657046
>wooing a Thrune
>the ones who literally sold out Aroden's glorious empire to Hell
>not forming your own secession government in the name of the Last Azlanti, blessed be his name even in death

>> No.46657113

>>46657068
Hell's Vengeance run as a Brownshirt Simulator is pretty good.

>> No.46657116

>>46657068
Hell's Rebels is garbage and just shows how badly Paizo grasps alignment.

>> No.46657125

>>46657068
Hell's Vengeance is fairly fun, the balance on the last dungeon's a bit off, make your DM take a look at those last 3 fights. 2nd book shoehorns in ultimate intrigue mechanics.

Hell's Rebels is laughably bad.

>> No.46657127

>>46657068
Rebels is fine past the first book, but BOY is said first book a fucking slog.

Vengeance, who knows, books past 2 aren't out until ShareAnon says they are, he has this power.

>> No.46657129

>>46657109
Be an aegis and max out your number of arms.

>> No.46657156

>>46657112
Reminder that Aroden is literally the reason Earthfall happened, because he couldn't resist waving his dick in the aboleths' gross faces.

>> No.46657167

>>46657045
We don't, Paizo does.

>> No.46657196

>>46657156
>trusting a Chaotic Evil Wizard (who already have no sense of right and wrong, just that the Good ones are the harmless sort of madmen you hope to encounter) to tell a story with anything resembling truth and veracity
>trusting the Runelord of Pride to ever admit to anything being his own fault

>> No.46657210

>>46656942
Calculated Mind actually HURTS your odds, because higher != better. 2-6 is more usable for the numbers you aim for.

There are calculators and phone apps you can use, though, so no worries there - and after 9 ranks in K:Engineering, you literally can never fail even 9th-level ones.

Granted, you should never use it, because it's 100% meta-mechanics; the dice don't represent ANYTHING, they just test your ability to do arithmetic against how fast your group can stand watching you sit around fiddling with dice.

No, the way to be good and properly awful is joining a Magical Guild with Wizard 2/Cleric 1/MT 10/Wizard 3/Cleric 4. This gives you double 9ths by 20th level via the Guild's Esoteric Magic - just be sure to never become the guildmaster because that turns you into a bureaucratic chumpster. There are Guilds RAW in Golarion that you can RAW join and gain points for prior to character creation if you're starting off past 1st. Oh, and you'll need Equipment Trick (Sunrod) to qualify for MT at 3rd level via free-Heighten shenanigans.

Downtime is the second way to become cheeselord mceverybodyhatesyou; the third way is to engage in the Soul Economy. Both of those things effectively halve the cost of magic item creation (Human Slaves cost 50gp each, but their souls are worth 100gp; Magic Capital points are worth 100gp of crafting materials each, but only cost 50gp to make), and stack with each other if done properly. Yes, this is indeed a way to use savvy business techniques and the harvesting of innocent souls to become a Lich for just 30k, and because a phylactery uses the normal rules for Craft Wondrous Item, you can add +5 to the spellcraft DC to ignore the CL requirement of 11, allowing Lichdom at as early as 8th level by WBL.

>>46656988
>>46656992
Some people like to play bombastically high-powered games. Sacred Geometry is NOT the way to do it, but the principle has merit.

>> No.46657222

>>46657156
Are those goddamn peacock feathers?

>> No.46657264

>>46656890

Because nothing says evil queen like guards with bootyplate.

>> No.46657327

>>46657109
Is there a way to get a sword to count as a shield? There's 1pp support for wielding a 2h reach weapon in one hand with a shield in the other, now that Armor Master's Handbook exists.

>> No.46657351

>>46657210
>Sacred Geometry is NOT the way to do it, but the principle has merit.
Free meta-magic is never bad.
Especially free quicken and free heighten, oh look every spell I ever cast is always at my maximum spell level and I can drop two spells a round, for one feat.

>> No.46657374

>>46657109
I really hate Cavaliers in Pathfinder but das a cute gril.

>> No.46657375

>>46657327
In 1pp? the craft your own weapon rules.
>Shield (1 DP): The weapon counts as a light shield made of wood or metal and can have armor spikes (your choice). Add the gp price of the shield and any armor spikes that the weapon gains from this quality to the weapon's gp price. This quality can be added only to one-handed melee weapons.

>> No.46657392

>>46657127
Do you think ShareAnon could produce Book 6 of Strange Aeons for me, if I pray to him really hard?

>> No.46657421

So this just came up at my table. How many undead skeletons can you fit inside a bag of holding type 3?

>> No.46657491

>>46657327
Make it count as a shield while also using to attack? Most things I've seen make it so that using the hand to attack would deny you the bonus to ac, and if you don't swing that hand might as well just use a buckler on your sword arm.

Weapon master custom weapon should let you build a weapon with the shield quality, instead of getting those exotic sword/shield combo weapons, but again making an attack with that hand should deny you the ac bonus.

>> No.46657500

>>46657421
Like, two? It's 150 cubic feet, which is one 5x5x5 foot cube, so two Medium skeletons squeezing.

>> No.46657520

>>46657421
If they are animated? probably around seven 250 cubic feet is not really that much volume when you start shoving people sized things inside it, also depends on if you can sort them in straight unmoving lines or not.

>> No.46657531

What's an interesting but purely mundane way to build an unarchetyped warder? Both path of war books are allowed as well as everything from Paizo.

>> No.46657545

>>46656890
I wouldn't mind forcing some illegitimate bastards into that one.

>> No.46657566

>>46657109
>>46657327
That's just a spiked shield, really. It says spikes, but stuff like the Shoanti klar which clearly includes a blade is given the same stats.

>> No.46657625

Posting again from last thread, though I don't want to spam it too much.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1M7P2mxetPD0NFmC-wo_YbooLosZLCB1rdBmmI9UlZ_E/edit

Familiar-granting flashy mystic mini-archetype, stacks with Knight-Chandler.
Now renamed from Arcane Emissary to Mystic Star.

>> No.46657632

>>46657500
What if you first disassemble them, and then pack their bones in tighter than blocks in a Tetris game?

>> No.46657684

>>46657632
How are you going to put them back together after? If they're bloody, they'll reanimate inside the bag, and...
>If a bag of holding is overloaded, or if sharp objects pierce it (from inside or outside), the bag immediately ruptures and is ruined, and all contents are lost forever.

Overloading the bag is the big risk of trying to pack it tight. Honestly, just trade up to a portable hole ASAP.

>> No.46657743

What PoW would be best to do pic related?

>> No.46657755

>>46657531
Wear really heavy armor and invest in Broken Blade.

The armor comes with gauntlets. Get 2 signet rings. As long as you do at least 1 point of damage by punching with your gauntlets, you can mark them.

Your Armiger's Mark is literally your symbol on their foreheads.

Alternatively, you can skip the rings and put a word or symbol on your gauntlets.

>> No.46657774

>>46657743
Fiendbound Marauder with Chimera Soul, I guess.

>> No.46658024

>>46657743
Brutal Stalker.

>> No.46658066

>>46657531
Depends on how you want your warder to function.
What weapons/armor do you want to use?

>> No.46658101

>>46657500
They aren't fighting each other, you can squeeze more than two in there.

>> No.46658132

What are some aggressive, dangerous fey creatures to stick in a cursed forest that I want to throw some PCs of anywhere from level 7-9 into?

Is having an underground city/santuary guarded by initiator kobolds too out there or should I not give a shit about people's lore expectations when I'm homebrewing?

>> No.46658154

>>46658066
Well the campaign takes place in Taldor but the GM is being a hardass by not allowing zweihander sentinel. I'm thinking of some kind of piercing thunder and iron tortoise user so far.

>> No.46658165

>>46658132
Any animal with the Fey Animal template works. It's CR +1.

>> No.46658177

Is there any way to increase Hex DCs other than increasing Int or CL?

>> No.46658212

>>46657392
I'm pretty sure Paizo doesn't even have that yet.

>> No.46658331

>>46658177
Corset of Dire Witchcraft, I think it is. That or a witching gown. I forget witch it is that does it, but one of them lets you boost one hex's DC.

>> No.46658402

>>46658177
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/monster-feats/ability-focus

Ability Focus might work. Some DMs might not let you take feats from the Bestiary.

>> No.46658494

Pick a random song from your personal playlist, or just a song at random if you don't have a personal playlist, and then pitch a character concept and/or build for a PC who has that song as their theme song. Do it!

>> No.46658509

>>46657351
It isn't free, the cost just isn't one that's in the game, it's a cost to you in terms of time - and if you use a calculator, you still have to roll your bucket of dice and input it every single time you use it. It's not worth it.

>> No.46658540

>>46658402
It should be noted that you need to use Ability Focus on each Hex, since each is its own Special Attack (denoted by the (Su) marker).

>>46658177
CL doesn't increase Hex DCs, Witch level does.

>> No.46658566

Can I cast a target spell (like Charm Person) on an enemy with concealment (Blur, Displacement).

Do I have to roll miss chance?

>> No.46658672

>>46658494
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aQAMHnmGZZ4
Android Constable Cavailer with the Order of the Penitent, specializing in grappling. Also has a Decanter of Endless Water.

>> No.46658693

>>46658494
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7XmDYJBZZdc
I'm not actually sure how to build him. Stalker (Vigilante), maybe?

>> No.46658710

>>46658672
>Order of the Penitent
Wait, the Switchforce girls use to be thugs?

>> No.46658718

I'm a 10th (soon to be 11th) level wizard, and will soon be building a construct that requires a DC38 knowledge engineering check. Obviously this is pretty tough but I've cracked it:

11ranks+3class skill+6intelligence+10knowledge pendant = +30 bonus. If I take 10 I can make DC38 no trouble - however, I would like to rush the construction so I'd finish the construct in half the time, which means I'd need to beat DC43 knowledge engineering.

So, my question is: how could I manage to find an extra 3 bonus on my skill check?

I'm half tempted to take the skill focus feat so I can reach +36 on my check, or if the DM has a problem with me using the knowledge pendant's once per day ability on crafting then I'll have to find an extra 2 points to beat DC43. I know that cyclops helm isn't allowed for crafting, so it's very possible that knowledge pendants aren't allowed either.

Any ideas on other sources of knowledge bonuses that I have feasible access to?

>> No.46658721

>>46657109

Use a shortspear.

>> No.46658753

Hey where's the beguiler conversion?

>> No.46658759

>>46658710
You didn't know that? They're called the Hooligan Sisters, in the first game they were escaped convicts.

>> No.46658777

>>46658494

https://youtu.be/YSshQu9rQLc

Thinking female elf mesmerist, delightfully friendly, slightly yandere.

>> No.46658787

>>46658718
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/t/tears-to-wine

You're welcome.
Not sure if this stacks with the pendant, but it should?

>> No.46658798

>>46658494
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPghnoIpLCM&nohtml5=False

Oracle with tongues curse and max ranks in Perform (Song).

>> No.46658815

>>46658759
Oh. No, I knew that, I just thought you were statting the police officer or fire fighter lady, not the Hooligan Sisters. I only ever played the first Switchforce.

Good to know they reform though, I guess.

>> No.46658816

What's your favorite character sheet? I've tried Dyslexic Studios, a few automated ones, but nothing has really hit all the walls for me.

>> No.46658839

>>46658494
The Black Mages - Those Who Fight Further
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fzQUkfnhP-E

Zweihander Sentinel with Primal Fury maneuvers for limit breaks. VMC into Sorcerer with one of the bloodlines (Impossible, Abyssal, or Abberant) for JENOVA cells.

Ignore the abilities Cloud had from the movie and Dissidia.

>> No.46658987

>>46658494
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bzdw1MVJQME
Yeah I've got no fucking clue.

>> No.46659013

>>46658718
Why don't you makes Cyclops helm first?

>> No.46659040

>>46658718
Crafter's Fortune?

>> No.46659045

So I rolled up a pretty fukken good stat array for an upcoming Wrath of the Righteous game, and I want to play a Muscle Wizard. How would you go about making a Transmutation/Enhancement specialist focusing on shapeshifting?

>> No.46659057

>>46658787

Getting hammered whilst crafting a giant scorpion made out of corpses, love it.

>>Creatures that drink the mead or wine created by this spell become sharp-witted and clear-minded, gaining a +2 enhancement bonus on all Intelligence- and Wisdom-based skill checks.

I don't see why it shouldn't - the only real issue here is whether the buff will last long enough for me to benefit from whilst crafting. Worst comes to worst I can use create water and then use several prepared casting of tears to wine and drink them immediately over the 8 hour/day crafting time.

The +2 enhancement bonus is on the skill check, not an attribute, so my headband of intellect won't clash.

The pendant gives +5 competence and maybe +10 insight, so there's no conflict there.

Awesome

>> No.46659063

>>46658132
>Is having an underground city/santuary guarded by initiator kobolds too out there or should I not give a shit about people's lore expectations when I'm homebrewing?
The latter, Paizo's lore is shit anyway.

>> No.46659093

>>46658132
Maybe not Initiator. Go to the Trove and see if the Vauntguard from DDS is there. It's like it was made for martial Kobolds.

>> No.46659108

>>46658494
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WNLb1NACeVs

>Half-Elf Order of the Lion Honor Guard Cavalier
>One of the last loyal survivors of a kingdom that recently fell to an invading army
>What's left of the loyalists are fleeing to seek asylum with an old friend of the now-deceased king's
>Fighting desperately to protect the last surviving heir, who is just seven years old
>The Cavalier himself the second-highest-ranking person there, considering almost all of the nobility either died at not!Hastings or defected to the enemy side

>> No.46659127

>>46659045
Shapeshifting Mastery.

Done.

>> No.46659131

>>46659040
Only apply to craft:X skill not spellcraft or knowledge : engineer.

>> No.46659138

>>46659013
Cyclops helm is banned for crafting since it's too OP

Knowledge pendant is fine though kek

>>46659040
I'm needing to boost knowledge engineering unfortunately, I'll definitely use that if I need to use a craft skill though.

>> No.46659156

>>46659045
Brown-Fur Transmuter Arcanist is best Muscle Wizard. Go Half-Orc too.

>> No.46659175

>>46659045
First make sure you have the right class. Are you SURE there's no Cleric domain combo that gives you both the spells and abilities you want? Are you sure you don't want to just be a Druid? Are you sure a sorcerer bloodline (which an Arcanist would be ideal for) wouldn't be helpful? Or any of the Arcanist's awesome archetypes? Even Magus deserves some consideration.

>> No.46659204

>>46658710
There's only one girl, Officer Patricia Wagon.

>> No.46659205

>>46659138
>automatic 20 roll on any chosen roll
vs
>+5 to knowledge checks and +10 to a single skill check roll
Not really a good comparison there.

>> No.46659267

Hello /pfg/

It is an oft-repeated fact that Wizards can warp reality and bend it to their will, but I remain unconvinced that is the case.

I offer you the opportunity the prove me wrong:

How would a wizard, having only access up to 6th level spells, prevent a teammate from dying?
I do not mean in a proactive manner (buff them to high heavens, disable enemies etc) but in a completely reactive manner: your BSF just got crit into unconsciousness, how do you get him back to fighting within your next standard action?

Use of items (as long as they do not copy 7th level spells or higher) is allowed.

>> No.46659271

>>46659138
four-leaf clover will gives you +2 luck bonus.

I guess a cracked Scarlet and Blue Sphere Ioun stone will gives you +1 competence bonus?

>> No.46659288

>>46658494

https://youtu.be/AD6V9GNvVhc

This seems like this is either a Paladin of Vengeance or an Invulnerable Rager's tune.

>> No.46659297

>>46658816
I'm pretty fond of these, at least for building characters. I make googledocs out of them after the fact, because I like using monster-style statblocks for my characters. It feels like it's easier to have everything on one place. If I played in meatspace, I could then check the sheet with my phone, instead of messing around with pen and paper.

>> No.46659307

>>46659267
Scroll of Breath of Life

>> No.46659309

>>46659267
Touhou, you keep coming back here every couple of days with this "wizards aren't OP you're all just memers" shit. Do you really think that we won't realize it's you because you're using Magic today?

>> No.46659311

>>46656890
is there a way to make a game breaking barbarian?

>> No.46659314

>>46659063
>>46659093
The idea would have been that most of the kobolds were shitty NPC classes and live in the deeper caves, while the guards were all like, level 5-6 initiators or casters. Then the party would get into the massive central chamber and fight a half-dragon.

>Vauntguard
I don't want to go digging through the trove right now, can you give a TL;DR on it?

>> No.46659336

>>46659311
Depends entirely on your definition of game breaking

>> No.46659354

>>46659267
UMD a scroll of Breath of Life

>> No.46659362

>>46659336
like just to fuck with the other players and gm

>> No.46659391

>>46659311
You can make a Barbarian who does silly amounts of damage and is very hard to kill. If your group is 100% combat, then this Barbarian would shine like a star.

He's still only T4 though, because the more non-combat stuff happens, the less he's equipped to deal with it.

>>46659362
Fuck with them how? If "killing things good" makes your party mates and GM mad, then they probably shouldn't be anywhere near PF.

>> No.46659406

>>46659362
In what way though? Barbarians can't do much of anything outside of combat, so unless your definition of fucking with other players and the gm is DPS, you can't

>> No.46659443

>>46659267
Summon Monster V > 1d3+1 (Average 3) Bralani Azata

All 3 of them use Cure Serious Wound. 9d8+18 = 58.5 HP heal.

I means.. you are a Wizard, you do have academae graduate as a feat right?

>> No.46659453

>>46659309
Can't be touhou, it's too familiar-sounding and relaxed. Not the stilted, precise language used by him.

>> No.46659521

>>46659453
Does that mean we now have a new shitposter to hate on? hurray!

>> No.46659563

>>46659057
Read closer: Now that you're caster level 10, it's actually a +5 bonus to everything.

Yep, it's a really good spell.

>> No.46659697

>>46659307
>>46659354
While that works, it does imply you relied on the work of a cleric, which defeats the purpose of the proposed thought experiment -- though I agree I stated it poorly to begin with.

>>46659309
I'm sorry friend, but I am not the fag you speak of, I am in fact not a known fag from this board, I sporadically come to ask random questions about PoW and I automatically ignore every posts which include avatars, so I really don't know who Touhoufag is.

>>46659443
This is a very satisfying answer, though I would counter that summoning requires a full-round, hence your BSF friend has had the time to get coup-de-grace'd.
I understand that Acadamae Graduate allows you to summon as a standard action, but it is not something that every wizard can afford to pick up.

>> No.46659775

>>46659697
False Life would probably work

>> No.46659849

>>46659775
Scratch that, thought it was for a creature touched.

>> No.46659869

>>46659697
>>46659267
As long as you can get within touch range, Greater Heroism would work, which buffs them and grants temp HP. Since you're next to them, you could also just use Emergency Force Sphere to cover both them and yourself, which should give you enough time to Full-Round Summon Monster as above without them dying.

>> No.46659905

>>46659697
Depending on how far below zero they are, Bear's Endurance could give them enough of a boost to hp to bring them to consciousness

>> No.46659930

>>46659697
How does it defeat the purpose of the thought experiment? You EXPLICITLY ALLOWED the use of items. Go put your goalposts back where they were faggot.

>> No.46659957

>>46659267

infernal healing. Gives them fast healing 1 for 10 rounds. Fasting 3 if you use Greater Infernal Healing.

>> No.46659971

>>46659869
Emergency Force Sphere is exactly the sort of thing I'm looking for.
Is there a way to meaningfully improve its range, or have it centered on a target that isn't "you"?

>> No.46660007

>>46659267
Well, my particular wizard actually prestiged into Arcane Savant to get Restoration and Raise Dead added to his spell list (among a few other select spells). Pumping them out with Blood Money feels good. But I suspect you're just talking about a single-classed wizard.

If you just want to stop them from DYING, all you need to do is cast Deathless on them. If you want to see me be cheeky about the wording of "get him back to fighting within your next standard action", you can use Marionette Possession. If you want to "restore" his HP, you can use summoning tricks like >>46659443 suggests. But since not every wizard can be assumed to have the needed feat, you could also try any spell that boosts CON or gives temp HP. Bear's Endurance works in a pinch.

>> No.46660043

>>46659971
It has a range of 5ft, so you could exclude yourself technically. You can also widen, to increase it's area to a 10ft emanation instead of 5ft.

>> No.46660195

>>46659971
Fool's Teleport pretty much guarantees that you and your friend will be safe for the full round it takes to summon, unless the enemy can see invisible creatures or identify your spell

>> No.46660225

>>46657392

Reply hazy try again

>> No.46660289

>>46658753
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6bKY5cuGjh9VFA1OF8xVmtqWjA/

If you want to keep up to date with the conversion this thread on the Paizo boards is updated regularly with changes and concepts: http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2qmqe

>> No.46660297

>>46660007
I did not know about Arcane Savant!

Is there any way for Wizards to get spells from other classes without taking a level in another class/prestige class?
Archetypes, feats and sacrifices to devils are OK.

>> No.46660343

>>46660297
Samsarans have an alternate racial trait that lets them add any spells to their class' spell list, IIRC. I think there's some mythic junk that does it too.

>> No.46660344

>>46660297

There are some archetypes, if I recall correctly, that also get to steal shit from cleric and druid spell lists, but I don't remember what they're called now.

>> No.46660372

>>46660297
Sadly (ish) not really, no. At the high levels, Shades can duplicate Miracle (I think? might have been a 3.5e Shadowcraft Mage thing) which can grab Cleric spells freely.

Arcanist, however, has an Archetype specifically for doing this, and the Spell Sage Wizard archetype can kinda-sorta do this via crafting scrolls etc. of them with his 1/day Cleric/Druid/Bard any-spell-I-want ability and high UMD.

>> No.46660387

>>46660297
Some Improved Familiar options can cast Cure spells

>> No.46660402

>>46660372
Shades can only copy 8th level or lower sorcerer/wizard conjuration spells

>> No.46660417

>>46660344
That's the Magaambyan/Collegiate Initiate archetype for Arcanists.

>> No.46660432

>>46660297
Gate a Solar for 20th-level Cleric casting the old-fashioned way!

>>46660402
Yeah, after I posted I realized that trick required a feat that isn't in PF, Arcane Disciple, which could add things to the list based on what domain it was from.

>> No.46660441

>>46660417
That's actually based on a prestige class that both wizards and arcanists can take.

Anyway, Samsarans and that are both the easiest ways, costing practically nothing.

>> No.46660525

>>46660297
This is another class and isn't on-demand as a standard action, but the Daivrat prestige class bears mentioning because of its flexibility- you get a little genie buddy who can grab ANY spell for you in 10 minutes, limited only by spell level (which scales up to 8th as you progress in the class)

>> No.46660576

>>46659297

The non-fillable version of this is my new sheet of choice. I love how much you can fit on it.

>> No.46660592

>>46659314
McGuyver meets Fred Jones, meets Sterling Archer, except with Magic instead of tech.

>> No.46660619

>>46660576
I have 2 and 6 page fillable versions, if you want.

>> No.46660648

>>46660297
A Spirit Whisperer with the Life Spirit can channel energy as a Cleric of his Wizard level. That would probably be the most direct method of getting your friend up.

>> No.46660729

>>46660619

The fillable versions are super laggy on my machine for some reason. I like pen-and-paper sheets better, anyway.

>> No.46660772

>>46659314
>>46660592
>I don't want to go digging through the trove right now, can you give a TL;DR on it?
Actually, if I have free time tomorrow, I can dump screencaps from my copy.
Would anyone be interested?
I can't right now because I just finished fapping and am about to fall asleep.

>> No.46660791

So my GM seems to have a dislike for Path of War's more supernatural disciplines, IE Veiled Moon being able to teleport everywhere and walk through walls. He says this is stuff that only casters should be able to do. How do I convince him that this view is wrong?

>> No.46660814

>>46660772
If only a crossbow bolt to the base of the neck could actually take someone out swiftly and quietly in PF...

>> No.46660818

Is Amiri a lesbian?

>> No.46660846

Thanks for the many answers regarding the Wizard question, I appreciate your help and have taken notes of many options of which I was not aware.

Now I come to you with a completely different request.

I plan on having my players go through the Sunwrought festival (I know, >playing on Golarion)
On this occasion, a reenactment of the Dawnflower's battle with Rovagug takes place, and I figured that would be a neat way of introducing the players (most of which are new to the setting) to the lore and the major gods.

I plan on introducing one of the first villain by having him intrude on the reenactment: just as Sarenrae and Asmodeus cast Rovagug down into the earth and the illusion which simulated Rovagug is supposed to disappear, the townsfolk will realize that it has instead become alive as it goes on a rampage.

Now for my question: what would be an interesting creature to pit against a group of 4-5 lv3 decent (i.e. not optimized but not helpless) characters? I will refluff it so it fits the narrative, but I'm looking for interesting mechanics, and I am woefully uneducated regarding bestiaries.

>> No.46660851

>>46660791
Ask him to define exactly what "magic" is, what determines a Caster, what is the nature of magic, and what exactly restricts how Magic does and doesn't work.

>> No.46660859

>>46660818
Everyone is a lesbian, Anon. Even the guys. Even you.

>> No.46660886

>>46660851
The fact that doing abilities similar to spells like that don't act as spells that can be done all day irks him.

>> No.46660887

>>46660791
You're not going to. You can try (say, explaining how Irish mythology is weeaboo as fuck and PoW doesn't even properly portray how weeaboo those guys could be) but he'll be MUH CASTERS and you'll have gotten nowhere.

Fuck 3.x for ruining a whole generation of gamers who now think that the dude with the sword shouldn't be able to do anything, while the dude with a staff should be able to do everything.

>> No.46660897

>>46660818
>Is Amiri a lesbian?

No, there are multiple pieces of art that display her with male stud slaves of a probably sexual nature.

Just because she's a tough barbarian doesn't mean she has to be lesbian.

>> No.46660915

>>46660814
That bolt might. Vauntguards can learn to apply the affects and powers of thier supernatural traps to their weapons. That bolt is probably coated in magical C4 for all intents and purposes.

>> No.46660929

>>46660897
need these

>> No.46660938

>>46660915
>magical C4

That still doesn't sound very quiet...

>> No.46660963

>>46660886
Point out how they are generally weaker, are gained slower, and have less scaling than spells. Also, how limited in scope they are compared to magic

>>46660938
You can put it on a timer, or a remote detonation.
You can go 200% Nuclear

>> No.46661028

>>46660289
Thanks!

>> No.46661036

>>46660846
Advance Owlbear?

>> No.46661185

What weaknesses does Path of War have? There's a Warder in the party and he almost never gets hit, and when he does he just counters it away. I like the class and system but my GM seems to get annoyed by it.

>> No.46661232

>>46661185
Warders have no defense against ranged attacks after their counters are gone, and AoE spells murder them

>> No.46661255

>>46661232
Could you elaborate?

>> No.46661273

>>46660929

>> No.46661277

>>46661185
They generally are susceptible to large numbers of dude, since their resources are encounter limited. Also, AoE spells and ones that don't rely on attack rolls also hurt them. Breaking/taking their gear also sets them back a tad.

>> No.46661282

>>46661232
>after their counters are gone

That's a think that happens?

>> No.46661321

>>46661273
Wait, Amiri is one of the Iconics that canonly does Kingmaker? What do the other ones do, post-campaign? Do they have pictures for that too?

>> No.46661325

>>46661255
Warders are only proficient with melee weapons; not a problem if they multiclass, but pure Warders are restricted to melee only.

They have a poor reflex save, so AoE spells tend to be very effective on them, and they can't counter them easily.

>>46661282
Ever been against full attacking archers as a Warder? If they can stay out of your reach, you're fucked.

>> No.46661332

>>46661282
You can't use a maneuver more than once per encounter, nor can you prepare a single maneuver more than once. If you force them to blow their loads early in the combat, they become slightly better Fighters.

>> No.46661343

>>46661321
>Wait, Amiri is one of the Iconics that canonly does Kingmaker? What do the other ones do, post-campaign? Do they have pictures for that too?

Nope! Amiri is the only one shown to "advance" as a ruler, and in fact Amiri being a ruler is "canon" in-universe as she's shown on a throne in Kingmaker *and* Ultimate Campaign.

>> No.46661360

>>46661185

I'm not an expert on PoW, but you only have a set number of maneuvers with each encounter, right?

Seems like the same principle that holds for RAGECHARGEPOUNCE and similar uber-charge builds holds true here; many-mook battles will be a trickier thing to deal with than a couple bigguns they can focus their firepower on. Individual mooks that are very little threat but come in numbers that mean there is not a lot of HP focused in the small spaces martials prefer it to be in can make it very hard to just wade through to the actual threats, and since your players don't know the level of the individuals they might be blowing some of their shit on things they could just swat and don't realize it until they're starting to run low.

>> No.46661367

>>46661325
>getting to actually play a Warder
>Ever talking about Pathfinder things I have actual experience with
>Not armchair theory-crafting in a white void forever

>>46661332
I know that, I'm just making jest about how people seem to talk like they think their PoW martial will always have a counter ready for every attack that can get past their assorted other defenses.

>> No.46661389

>>46661332
To be fair, the Warder can always Defensive Focus up or move and recover a single maneuver as a standard action. It's probably not the best plan if all your enemies are WAY the fuck out of range and you're getting focused, but it's an option.

>> No.46661451

>>46661332
Isn't there a maneuver or stance that lets you use a given counter an unlimited number of times in one turn, though? I think it's Iron Tortoise, but I'm not actually sure- it's just something I think I remember hearing other people mention before.

>> No.46661487

>>46661451
>Isn't there a maneuver or stance that lets you use a given counter an unlimited number of times in one turn, though?

Extended Defense lets you activate a Counter and keep it on until your next turn (meaning it works on Full-Attacks or multiple attacks!)

Scarlet Throne Dignity lets you turn *any* maneuver you have prepared into an Iron Shell-tier Counter.

>> No.46661778

>>46657222
You have a problem with looking FABULOUS, Anon?

>> No.46662074

What classes do the things path of war can (IE jumping through walls, flight, hitting touch AC and doing more damage than a gun) without expending a resource? Spells are a resource, before anyone pulls the caster card.

>> No.46662081

>In hunting tournament with
group(15)
>2 Direbores and a golden fox are the game
>Driud got the golden fox with ease
>Me(fighter) and the barbarian found on of the bores
>Barbarian hits it for 60 and kills it
>ineedit.jpeg
>tried to bash him (non lethal)and run with the bore
>nat 1
>ohshitnigga
>he retaliates with a lethal attack
>nat 20
>60 x2
>Breaks armor, now I was there with 1 ac. I had two choices, roll a new charcter or run and pray for him to miss
>thats when I realized I had pouch of dry sand
>I threw the sand
pocketsand.jpeg
>nat 20
>Blinded him, now he couldn't attack of opportunity
>I got out of there faster than a black man running from court dates

>pic is sorta related

>> No.46662118

>>46662074
None of them, that's the whole point.

>> No.46662174

>>46661185
Action economy.
Make sure the gm knows the fine wording on the counters too.

>> No.46662187

>>46659127
Cool beans. Not to be confused with Shifting Mastery either. Goddamn it Paizo.

>>46659156
I'm assuming go Half-Orc for the bite attack? Or is there more to it? I was planning to go Human to push both STR and INT with Dual Talent.

>>46659175
I'm pretty sure. We already have Divine casting mostly covered. I'm looking for a Wizard with all the versatility of his spell list, with the option to activate a mid-level spell and be competent in melee (I definitely won't be outshining the Warpriest emitting Starknife radiation). The DM also suggested Dragon Disciple, which has its perks but I don't want to be a whole spell level behind the 8-ball.

I'll check out Brown Fur Transmuter, though I've mostly avoided Arcanists so far. They always struck me as trading a whole level of casting progression for what amounts to a few small conveniences. I also really like the Knowledge is Power discovery for Wizard to add INT to CMB/CMD.

>> No.46662245

>>46662118
>>46662174
So you have to build encounters around them instead of around how the game normally goes? Totally balanced, not game breaking at all.

>> No.46662256

>>46662187
Look at the Potent Magic, Quick Study, Greater Metamagic Focus, and Dimensional Slide exploits for the Arcanist. I think those can make up for the progression difference in the long run.

>> No.46662267

>>46662245
No different to building encounters around a wizard. You should ALWAYS be tailoring your encounters to account for the party's strengths and weaknesses, because that's how you challenge them.

>> No.46662287

>>46662245
If by "build encounters around them" you mean "spread some of the system onto the enemies too", yes. Literally giving them one or two strikes and a counter is enough. Path of War isn't, unfortunately, just a slot-in system, but that's mostly because martials _suck_ and there's no way to fix that without distorting the game.

Frankly I just pick a strike, a boost, a counter, and a stance for each enemy. Identical enemies get identical maneuvers... most of the time (gotta keep 'em on their toes). It works fine.

>> No.46662292

>>46662245

>Instead of around how the game normally goes?

You mean around how many spells the casters have left?

Because that's been what the encounters have been built around in every game I'VE ever been in because nothing else fucking matters besides HP totals.

>> No.46662335

>>46662245
No but I have a lot of people misuse their counters, also remember, counter =immediate action, means one a turn, and no swift next turn.
Extended defense is limited by uses/day. And they have to use it the first time they counter a turn, otherwise they have used up their immediate and can't use it.
Also by using immediate to counter it means they don't get boosts, and can not change stances, as well as they are unable to do any other swift actions they might have.

>> No.46662384

>>46662187
Orcs (and Half-Orcs due to subtype rules) can gain a benefit to STR instead of damage from the spell Boiling Blood. It's a low duration, but is Morale and thus stacks with Enlarge Person and Bull's Strength; Brown-Fur Transmuter can add +2 to each of those for a total of +14 STR with two 2nd-level spell slots and one 1st-level spell slot, for 1 round/level (and +10 for 1 minute/level, since Boiling Blood's +4 is the short one).

Don't use it if you have a Skald in the party, though, since it doesn't stack with that.

>> No.46662489

>>46662267
>>46662287
>>46662292
>>46662335
Is there any reason as to why they shouldn't be bound to daily resources like the game is already balanced around?

>> No.46662510

>>46662489
Because they do have daily resources, maneuvers are just not chief among them.
Also because a sufficiently leveled/equipped caster will not have much problem with spell slots if they play smart.

>> No.46662561

>>46658987
goblin alchemist

cause chaos

>> No.46662566

>>46662510
But he will run out eventually, meanwhile the path of war guy does everything all day.

>> No.46662610

>>46662566

Martials are supposed to be a class that is good in combat no matter how long the day goes.

>> No.46662630

>>46662566
Except he doesn't do everything all day. Unless he actually bothered to learn those maneuvers that allow him to fly, walk through walls, etc, he's not going to be able to do that at all. At the end of the day, he's saving money if he chooses utility options (saving up so he doesn't have to pay for flight for instance), or he's having the solution to the occasional problem, about as often as an Alchemist or a Bard will have the solution to a problem. For many classes they also still have a mechanic to keep track of when it comes to dailies; Warders and their Mark, Stalkers and their Ki, Mystics and their "I can't use Animus outside of combat", and so forth.

>> No.46662631

>>46662566
Pathfinder is balanced around having either very few encounters per day, or many extremely easy ones.

>> No.46662670

>>46662566
Considering a caster at level 1 can make 15 gold per a casting of a level 1 spell I think that is fine.
Yes in pure combat a PoW is strong, in pure able to do everything a full caster will outshine a PoW class every day of the week.
Also PoW has far less access to save or suck then a full caster does. Most save or suck are really high level, and each maneuver can be done once until recovered. Recovery is usually a standard or swift (With a few exceptions).

>> No.46662730

>>46662670
Which spell is that?

>> No.46662758

>>46662610
>>46662630
So he should be getting better mobility, damage, and utility than a normal martial all day? You still haven't convinced me this is balanced.

>> No.46662763

>>46662730
Fabricate bullets, you can spend two gold to make your net profit 13 or you can just use false focus to make the full 15 every casting.

>> No.46662815

>>46662758
A normal martial is less powerful than a PoW martial, that is intended. Fighter, Rogue, Monk, even things like Slayer and Barbarian aren't going to be able to keep up with the utility (although they can usually outdamage) things like Alchemist, Bard, Inquisitor, Magus, etc. and especially can't keep up with fullcasters like Druids, Clerics, Wizards, and Psychics. A PoW martial is more akin to a powerful Barbarian, or things like Inquisitors and Maguses; balancing them against Fighters is a fool's game, because the Fighter is already weak.

>> No.46662829

>>46662758
You shoulden't be compairing them to a 'normal' martial, compare what a full caster can do, yes they are more sustainable easier, but they also don't have the versatility or the ability to just rewrite how the game works, PoW has nothing on the scale of dominate, charm, wish, ect.

>> No.46662837

>>46662758
Well, duh, you shouldn't be using normal martials.

>> No.46662845

>http://www.d20pfsrd.com/psionics-unleashed/races/half-giant
I'm really tempted to play one, but I'm stuck on what class I'd actually like to play as. Any suggestions fellow fa/tg/uys?

>> No.46662854

>>46657156
>those aren't rune tattoos
>Sorshen snuck in to his room at night and doodled on his face
>he's too proud to admit someone slipped through his defenses
>they're the Thassilionian equivalent of writing "PENUS"

>> No.46662857

>>46662845
What do you want to do?

>> No.46662868

>>46662845
They make great Inquisitors, Psychic Warriors, Brutal Slayer Stalkers, and Rangers, if you're just going by stats.

>> No.46662879

>>46662815
At least you admit it's overpowered bullshit.
>>46662829
Yes, but path of war won't get fucking one shotted by a monster like a caster will.

>> No.46662897

>>46662879
A good caster won't get one shotted. If they are in a position to be one shotted they fucked up.

>> No.46662914

>>46662879

>like a caster will

I've played with decently leveled casters in my game, and bullSHIT they get one-shotted. PF mages are the least squishy mages I have ever fucking seen in an RPG, particularly clerics and druids. Even a fucking arcanist tanked a goddamn full attack from a half-fiend minotaur by himself.

>> No.46662944

>>46662914
Don't know how that happened, I saw a level 17 sorcerer get taken down by a lesser reaper in the first round of combat.

>> No.46662947

>>46662868
An Inquisitor sounds like it could be fun. I've never played as one before or seen one in action.

>>46662857
I'm not exactly sure at the moment beyond wanting to play something other than martial. I usually go for barbs or monks and I want to switch things up.

>> No.46662964

>>46662879
It's not "overpowered bullshit", any more than any of the classes I listed the first time around are. They're competent and can survive to do what they were designed to do, without breaking the game in half outside and inside of combat.

Can they fly, can they teleport short distances, can they lead? Yes. Can they drop a meteor on people, can they warp them to the Elemental Plane of Water for drowning, can they decide to rewrite reality on a whim? No.

Most importantly, they are generally stuck with mundane skills outside of combat, with little in the way of being able to simply create a solution with a single resource spent. One of the most basic of clerical abilities, the ability to create fresh and drinkable water, is completely outside of the abilities of every single Path of War character, no matter what maneuvers or stances they choose. Similarly, nobody is going to suddenly want to drop and give even a Warlord a blowjob, whereas the 7 CHA Wizard can wave his hand and cast Charm Person.

And finally, mages aren't expected to be in a position to get "one-shotted", and if they are they have spells on spells on spells that they'd have up already. And that's just Wizard/Sorcerer/Psychic; that's not even including classes like Clerics and Druids, who are already more capable to take a hit and smack right back.

>> No.46662969

>>46662879
Let's also not forget how strong summons can be, oh look perminant invisibility, equal to or greater combat potential then the fighter, on top of their ability to drop spells like greater invisibility, deep slumber, hold monster, and cast two attacks per a round using quicken spell.

>> No.46662973

>>46662944
If it was by raw hp damage, then it was the Sorcerer's fault. If it was from some crazy effect the reaper can do, that's because high-level PF is initiative based rocket tag

>> No.46662977

>>46662944

That seems a statistical impossibility unless it critted him a whole bunch. By level 17 even mages have a fuckton of HP.

>> No.46662988

>>46662854
>snuck into his room
Unlikely, they were probably fucking at the time. One of their allied phases.

>> No.46663037

>>46662947
Well if you want to avoid being a martial I would say give cleric, druid, or vitalist a try. If you want to try a hybrid I would lean to paladin, psychic warrior, or marksman.

>> No.46663044

>>46662973
How was it his fault? He didn't choose to fail a perception roll.>>46662964
Didn't you deliberately leave out wizards need to make a charisma check for that?

>> No.46663088

>>46663044
Anyone squishy enough to be taken out in one round should never be within someone's threatened range.

>> No.46663103

>>46663044
>This charm makes a humanoid creature regard you as its trusted friend and ally (treat the target's attitude as friendly). If the creature is currently being threatened or attacked by you or your allies, however, it receives a +5 bonus on its saving throw.
>The spell does not enable you to control the charmed person as if it were an automaton, but it perceives your words and actions in the most favorable way. You can try to give the subject orders, but you must win an opposed Charisma check to convince it to do anything it wouldn't ordinarily do.

Well isn't that funny, it says you have to win an opposed Charisma check to convince it to do something out-of-the-ordinary. "Let us through guardsman, we've done nothing suspicious and you've no reason to stop us" is nothing out-of-the-ordinary unless all the guards in your setting are VERY paranoid.

>> No.46663129

>>46662977
Let's see a level 17 sorceror, depending on hp, let's just assume average rolls with a 10 con.
62hp, that is before con boosting gear, or just not putting a ten in con (which you shoulden't really do in most cases anyways 12 is usually the minimum) So with a 12 con that would be 79 hp. Either way a lesser reaper has these attack statistics
scythe +14/+9/+4 (2d4+3/×4 plus death touch)
So assuming it hits all three attacks, with max damage (no crits)
33 damage and it fails every negative level roll and takes average so 6.5 we will round upto 7, that is another 35 damage so 68 that would not drop a level 17 sorc with 12 con and average hp rolls.
That is also max damage and average level drain on every hit.

>> No.46663155

>>46663129

Right, that makes sense.

And usually by level 17 mages have geared up into 16 or more CON, and most of the ones I've played with tend to be walking around with a big ol' wad of temp HP on top of that.

>> No.46663195

>>46662489
hit points are a daily resource

especially for fighting types

>> No.46663209

>>46663155
Also that involves the sorc standing there and letting the thing full attack it, assuming the reaper moved and attacked the absolute max damage would be
44 (max damage scythe crit) 20 (4 negative levels)
64
Still not enough to drop a level 17 sorc in one hit, and not likely to occur anyways.

>> No.46663215

>>46657264

It's funny because she's a lesbian

>> No.46663904

Which is a better gestalt option? Magus//Warder, or Alchemist//Warder?

>> No.46663929

>>46663904
Alchemist, magus has too many swift action issues to mesh as well with PoW as alchemist. Although note that you shouldn't build the alchemist side for bombs, try and archetype those out. They're incompatible with maneuvers.

>> No.46663979

>>46663929
Vivisectionist//Warder would be weird.

>> No.46664018

If every PC is forced to Gestalt Unchained Summoner along with their chosen PC class, what would the consequences be?

>> No.46664035

>>46664018
JoJos part 3+

>> No.46664181

>>46664018

2 hour combat rounds

>> No.46664245

> Thirteen of the 17 base classes in the Core Rulebook and Advanced Player’s Guide use magic or have some kind of magical ability.

>> No.46664258

>our DM wants to run tomb of horrors
>I asked him whether I can play as an awakened red panda (recreated them in the race builder)
>waiting for his reply
I so hope he agrees. It'd be the cutest thing ever seen by the tomb of horrors.
I'd build it as a mouser/monk of many styles/ranger.

>> No.46664261

>>46664245
Every class should use magic ffs
Just don't call it magic for the martial classes

>> No.46664272

>>46664261
That's an actual quote from Ultimate Magic.

>> No.46664430

>>46660648
You can also be a necromancer and take http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/versatile-channeler

>> No.46664456

Whats the best class for stealing other people's weapons mid combat?

>> No.46664507

>>46664456
Wizard. Quicken True Strike > Telekinetic maneuver disarm.

>> No.46664518

>>46664261
Bloodrager is a good example.

>> No.46664840

So I'm joining a new game as a Paladin and will probably end up going sword and board for it.

I was thinking of focusing feats on improving the crit range of my weapon and using the feat tree based around shield bashes.

Any tips on what other feats I should take? We are rolling for stats though so hopefully i get the 15dex required for TWF.

>> No.46664846

>>46663904
>>46663929
Investigator is good past 4 because Studied Combat has a ton of synergy with your strikes -and- gives you something to do with your move action on rounds you only need to 5-foot-step.

Of course you can't do tentacle or tumor familiar shenanigans like an alchemist but if you're not into either of those then consider it.

>> No.46664869

>>46664840
>sword and board
>shield bashes

Don't do it. It will almost never be as good as a big two-hander, and will definitely never be better.

>> No.46664897

>>46664869
With smite giving bonus to-hit and a big bonus to damage per hit, TWF is actually kind of good for Paladins, if you don't mind it taking up all your feats.

>> No.46664910

Shadow necromancy fucking when?

>> No.46664928

>>46664507
You misspelled Arcanist.

>> No.46664935 [SPOILER] 

>>46664018
Isn't it obvious?

>> No.46664981

>>46664869
Oh damn. I was just going with the archetypical paladin concept. I could always just go with the greatsword if TWF with a shield really is trash. I guess I'll wait to see what the rest of the party make up is. atm all I know is that we have a wizard and a rogue and 2 or 3 others undecided. If one of them rolls fighter or barbarian then I don't really want to start competing with them for the first adamantine flaming greatsword that pops up.

>> No.46665058

>>46664981
TWF Paladin is really hard for roll stat.
You needs STR,DEX,CON and CHA.

I thinks you should have plan B ready, just in case

>> No.46665066

>>46665058
>STR
>not using deadly agility or agile weapons
Top pleb.

>> No.46665113

>>46665066
> sword and board
> agile or deadly agility
????

>> No.46665122

>>46665113
>not going dex all day every day

>> No.46665137

>>46665122
Both doesn't work with Longsword.

>> No.46665145

>>46665137
Then don't fucking take a longsword.
Take a scimitar or two and worship Sarenrae.

>> No.46665163

>>46665145
Dervish dance doesn't work if you wear a shield

>> No.46665173

>>46665163
DEADLY
AGILITY

>> No.46665193

>>46665173
Doesn't work with scimitar.
Are you retard? Read the freaking feat that you suggest.

>Benefit(s): You may add your Dexterity modifier in place of your Strength modifier when wielding a light weapon or a weapon that gains the benefits of the Weapon Finesse feat (such as the rapier) when determining additional damage inflicted upon a successful attack

> when wielding a light weapon or a weapon that gains the benefits of the Weapon Finesse feat

>> No.46665206

>>46665193
Wait, a scimitar isn't finesseable? Our group always treated it as finesseable.
Whatever, a rapier also works just fine.

>> No.46665215

>>46665058
Yeah If I don't get the stats needed I'll fall back to a greatsword or something.

>> No.46665225

>>46665193
Effortless Lace?

>> No.46665240

>>46665206
It isn't. Dervish Dance get around this by granting the bonus on both attack and damage roll.

>> No.46665286

Yoon is the sexiest.

>> No.46665387

>>46664507
Pilfering Hand is also an option. Though it can be used for long ranged Disable Device and Sleight of Hand, it's literally meant for stealing an opponent's weapon. Also if I'm not mistaken, Knowledge is Power should stack with the spell.

>> No.46665414

>for some fucking reason my GM thinks path of war is tier 1 on par with optimized wizards
>decide to play a wizard in the upcoming campaign
>they tell me that optimizing and using exploits for power as a wizard don't count
How do I wreck a campaign as a wizard from level 1 through 20? 20 point buy, Paizo only. I intend fully to show how powerful tier 1 gets.

>> No.46665437

>>46664897
TWF can be workable, because of Smite like you said. TWF + shield shit is way too many feats for a Paladin.

>> No.46665455

>>46664456
that spell that lets you teleport touched shit + reach spell

>> No.46665478

>>46665286

> O P P A I L O L I?

>> No.46665695

>>46665414
How good are you at playing tier 1? You know how to leave your spell slot open and use Fast study? You know how to scout with familiar?

Anyway... I would go with Shadowcaster. Spell Focus (Illusion).

Early level use Color Spray to end an encounter.

Use Silent Image to control stuff (Creating mist,wall etc.) and utility. It's really up to your imagination how you would use this spell.

>> No.46665727

If you had the choice between a free disarm attempt or a free bulrush attempt which would you choose?

>> No.46665755

>>46665727
depend on campaign. how often are you going to fight stuff that can't be disarm?

>> No.46665775

>>46665695
Is Shadowcaster an archetype?

>> No.46665791

>>46665775
Yes. Wizard Archetype.

>> No.46665815

>>46665286
son visage est le beurre

>> No.46665816

>>46665791
This looks interesting. Any other tips I should know? Any recommendations for a guide?

>> No.46665835

>>46665695

Not who you were talking to but how good is the Shadowcaster? It seems like there isn't enough good Darkness spells to take advantage of the associated feats for it and the base effects don't seem that massive.

>> No.46665879

>>46665755
I honestly have no idea. It will be an undead heavy campaign apparently.

>> No.46665904

>>46665835
You don't care about those. What you want is Solid Shadows metamagic feat.

>> No.46665914

>>46664456
At high levels, Fiendbound Marauder Warder. Stance of the Infinite Guardian+Defensive Focus, next turn the level 9 counter+Hammer of the Immortal, disarm all enemies in a 60+ foot radius, or 45 foot radius with the last two only.

>> No.46665976

>Studying applied linguistics
>Can't stop thinking of how to translate every term and concept into a Lawful-Neutral outer plane of language with a separate layer for each of one of the levels of language, complete with planar traits, geography and themed fauna

>> No.46666028

>>46665835
True value of Shadow Spell is versatility.

Also stuff like Spell Perfection affects everything you emulate with shadow spell. And Spell Focus (Illusion) now works with 3 school (Evocation,Conjuration,Enchantment).

Also 120% real Illusion is funny.

>> No.46666050

>>46663129
Never heard of an arcane caster getting less than 14 starting con unless its like 15pb.

Chances are your average sorc will have 20 con by that level, maybe 28 if cast elemental body and turned into a water elemental or fotd III if he wanted access to blood money.

>> No.46666223

>>46663929
I'm actually playing a Internal/Reanimator Alchemist || Fiendbound Marauder Warder right now. Everything he does is fluffed as crazy mutations and alchemic shenaniganry.

I decided to keep bombs because Warders have fuck all for ranged capability, and bombs are actually a damn good ranged weapon to carry around. Even if they only do 1d4 fire damage.

>> No.46666239

>>46656890
When did best girl get new art?
Well, almost best girl. Still second to Shalelu.

>> No.46666246

>>46664981
Shield bashing is literally the best kind of TWF. Even if you ignore that autistic assumption that Shield Master removes the Power Attack penalty and such, wearing two shields and bludgeoning the fuck out of folks is better than any other form of TWF for your feat investment.

Using a big 2H is just WAY less feat intensive and easier to build around.

>> No.46666247

>>46662879
A martial gets to do something and actually be compitent at it. Wizard player screams its "OVERPOWERED BULLSHIT", despite having massive amounts of save or sucks, save or dies, encounter solving / trivializing abilities and the ability to say 'lol fuck u reality' on the fly.

>The full bab class gets to attack twice at 6th level turn how is this fair!
Says the wizard as he's flying and invisible

>WAAAH THE MARTIAL CAN ATTACK THREE TIMES A TURN NOW!
Says the wizard, who just teleported / plane shifted away as a standard action

>FUCKING MARTIALS FOUR ATTACKS PER TURN!
Polymorph any object, wish, etc

Keep in mind these are the 'low powered' but 'valuable' utility spells, there are much, much more powerful spells in every single tier.

>> No.46666260

>>46666239
Curse of the Crimson Throne Anniversary Edition is coming out in like 5 months or something.

>> No.46666273

>>46661273
Is her chained man candy a random npc or was it a major kingmaker character?

>> No.46666282

>>46662988
See, I maintain that Xanderghul is the only Runelord Sorshen never actually fucked.

Not for lack of trying, but because EVERY TIME the two would try to arrange something, it'd turn out to be a 120% real illusion on his part or a clone on hers. Sometimes both at once! Sometimes even crazier things!

Mythic wizard romance is hard.

>> No.46666300

>>46666282
It's canon that she fucked ALL the Runelords at one point or another.

That said, it's also canon that her relationship with Xanderghul wasn't solely "I'm just in this to fuck you (over)", they were actually sort of genuinely friendly at least some of the time. Being that they were the two oldest Runelords, ruled their domains from the beginning to the fall, and knew each other even back when they were apprentices to Xin, all probably helped.

>> No.46666358

>>46666300
I'm not sure which is the more bizarre image: Sorshen fucking fat-disgusting-lich Zutha, or Sorshen in lesbians with Belimarius.

>> No.46666408

>>46666358
Sorshen was not very right in her mind.
Just read the background of her Champion's Sword.

>> No.46666410

>>46666358
Maybe she did it before they were undead/old?

>>46666300
>magephone rings
>"Hey, Xandy, remember like a thousand years ago when that idiot Wrath guy tried getting Baphomet to kill me?"
>"Yeah, whatever happened to that guy?"
>"Scry Baphomet's realm, guess who's there, and guess who fucked up and went lich like a bitch."
>the trapped first Runelord of Wrath suffers projected images of Sorshen naked, sent by Xanderghul, for the next hundred years
>why?
>because he can
>WIZARDS

>> No.46666440

>>46666282
Isn't there a mythic ability that literally lets you turn your illusions into complete, solid, tangible reality?

>> No.46666654

>>46666246
Yeah i will probably stick with the shield stuff. it feels wrong to me being a paladin without a shield.

Human - Two Weapon Fighting (Dex 15)
Level 1 - Power Attack (BAB +1)
Level 3 - Improved Shield Bash (Shield Proficiency)
Level 5 - Double Slice (TWF)
Level 7 - Shield Slam or Snag (TWF, BAB +6)
Level 9 - Furious Focus (STR 13, BAB +1, Power Attack)
Level 11 - Shield Master (Shield Slam, BAB +11, TWF)
Level 13 - Bashing Finish (BAB +11, TWF, Shield Master)
Level 15 -
Level 17 -
Level 19 -
Shield focus? crit focus + crit feat? imp critical?

this is what i have so far. i honestly have no fucking idea. it's been years since my last pathfinder campaign.

any input appreciated.

>> No.46666704

Want to run an adventure with Hell's involvement, what're the strengths and weaknesses of Hell's Vengeance and Hell's Rebels?

>> No.46666755

>>46666654
if you have the dex get the extra twf attack feats.

>> No.46666763

Does Thuvia have ANY gimmick at all beyond "we live in a desert and we sell shit that makes you live forever"?

>> No.46666764

>>46666704
Hell's Rebels weakness is that it is hilariously bad. The only strength is probably that the BBEG is so pathetic you can't help but laugh.

>> No.46666778

>>46666764
Hell's Vengeance is also a resounding meh.

>> No.46666821

>>46666764
>>46666778
Fucking really? That's testicles

>> No.46666897

>>46657045
Most GMs are too lazy to accept they (and other T4-T5 classes) require encounters suited to them and actually have to do their job balancing their particular game.

It also doesn't help that most people have a toxic view of an optimal rogue as a clunky twf martial reliant on precision damage when they are not. They really are just meant to be jack of trades, they can do just about anything decently but certainty not the best. Problem is the Bard is the King/Queen of all trades and does it better.

>> No.46666899

>>46666654
Don't forget that smite is limited resource per day and only work on Evil opponent.

>> No.46666910

>>46657109
Sword in main hand, Javelin/Shortspear in offhand.

>> No.46666927

>>46664518
Meaning what?

>> No.46666938

>>46666654
Maybe take a look a shield style?
http://i.4cdn.org/tg/1460304295063.png
http://i.4cdn.org/tg/1460304366595.png

>> No.46666979

>>46662245
>So you have to build encounters around them instead of around how the game normally goes?

What is a GM anyway

>> No.46666990

>>46666979
The guy who run AP?

>> No.46667008

>>46666979
Depending on who you ask, either a person who should have to do ALL THE WORK and is a dick if he doesn't, or a person who shouldn't have to do a damn bit more than read what the AP says, draw lines on the maps, and pretend to be an NPC occasionally. People seem to have wildly differing expectations of a DM.

Personally, I think a DM should be doing a fair amount of work and should be building encounters/dungeons with the party in mind though, so I still agree with your point.

>> No.46667015

>>46666979
A MISERABLE LITTLE PILE OF DICE

BUT ENOUGH DIPLOMACY CHECKS, HAVE AT YOU

>> No.46667019

>>46666990
APs are all shit.

>> No.46667052

>>46662964
But Charm Person doesn't work that way.
Dominate would...

>> No.46667082

>>46667008
I dunno, I don't think it's fair on a DM to EXPECT them to have the time/inclination/ability to make initiating opponents.

I feel like PoW would be better if it didn't play best if everyone was using it.

Snap thought, I think it might be Counters. Potentially.

>> No.46667169

>>46666990
APs are balanced around fighter, skillmonkey rogue, blaster wizard and healer cleric. More efficiently build parties will require encounters to be amped up somewhat.
I'm running a HV's game for 5 players at starter level 4, so the tannery heist changes like this:
-Skill DCs increased by two
-Abbie is now accompanied by two other riding dogs, but with the advanced template
-Umbre couple now are Umonk 1/Warsoul Soulknife 2, taking advantage of old people +2 to Wis.
-Jabral is now a level 7 Ambush Hunter (With the fatigued condition to offset his significant advantage over the party) with Archie as his pet.

>> No.46667191

>>46663103
Or unless they're remotely competent guards who don't do out of the ordinary things like letting their new non suspicious buddy walk right by them and not do their job.

>> No.46667205

>>46667082
I think it's fair to expect the DM to be well versed in whatever material they're allowing for a game, and able to use it. If they're well-versed in PoW, building the occasional notable or especially powerful opponent as an initiator shouldn't be too much of a problem. The other thing I expect a DM to do is to fudge things here and there though, so what I'd personally end up doing (if I wanted my players to be fighting mostly against PoW-capable opponents) is to have most of them just give some mocks certain manuevers 1/encounter. They're mooks, 1/day is probably all they'll have the chance to do. And then, of course, the mookiest of mooks don't get any initiation at all.

As far as not having the time or inclination to do it... Well, I can't disagree with the idea that a DM using PoW doesn't need to be inclined to have NPCs using PoW. Otherwise, I'd basically be saying "no, that's not how you have fun". But as for time, half of me feels like saying "If you don't have enough time to DM properly, don't DM." and the other half of me wants to say "Again, just slap a couple maneuvers on some mooks as 1/encounter abilities and you're good."

>> No.46667267

>>46666778
>>46666704
Vengeance isn't horrible so far (it's better than Hell's Rebels was at this point in its release) but it's also not awe-inspiring. Expect that you'll want to rework several encounters just to account for how shit Paizo are at design.

Vengeance also only has two books out, though, so it could get much worse or much better, depending on which way the dice fall.

>> No.46667290

>>46667205
It also makes me a little annoyed that even against martial characters that are actually good, PoW characters would pound them into the dirt.

So if the DM wanted to have a Mageknight fighting the party, he'd also have to be an initiator or get pulped, despite Mageknights being all-around pretty dang solid and getting really swanky abilities.

>> No.46667294

>>46664840
Consider a wand or something of Bless Weapon since you're focused on improving the crit of your weapon. You'll auto confirm against most evil enemies.

If you don't get the dex you need I would recommend disregarding two weapon fighting and just getting the shield bash feats. Settle for alternating your normal attacks with the sword or shield.

>> No.46667360

>>46667290
When you say "martial characters that are actually good" I assume you're talking about classes like Barbarian or Magus, not Fighter. I don't have the practical, hands-on experience with PoW yet to say whether or not that actually happens in my experience, but if that is common I can see why you'd find it irritating. If it's turning out to be a major problem, I would just raise the party's effective APL to compensate and throw more or stronger opponents at them.

>> No.46667403

>>46667191
To be fair everything you say is taken in the best possible way by them, sure it still requires a cha check, but unless your leading an army in, it shouldn't be impossible, or even that hard to do, especially if said wizard has a decent cha. But I doubt that's what you were originally arguing over, just felt I'd add that in.

>> No.46667514

>>46666247
Maybe it's not the class, but the quality of people you play with?

>> No.46667548

>>46667514
If the Wizard isn't doing that, the player is either too stupid to realise, or he's deliberately letting you feel like you're worth more than the dirt on his boots. Assuming he has dirt on his boots, which he probably doesn't since he uses prestidigitation to clean it off.

>> No.46667556

>>46666763

It doesn't even make you live forever, it simply resets your death clock back to your race's equivalent of the 20s.

>> No.46667596

>>46667556
>>46666763
Worth noting that the grand discovery for most alchemists? Never age again.

Capstone for Thuvian Alchemist, the PrC that enhances and capitalises on Thuvian methods? Never age again.

Grand discovery for Thuvia? Reset age to 20s, keep on aging.

Artokus Kirran is a shitty alchemist.

>> No.46667644

>>46667548
Well if that's your frame of mind then I can't exactly argue on this, all I can say is that if your wizard isn't there to compliment the parties abilities you might want to find a better player, I know you can't always directly, but if they aren't even trying, either wizard isn't for them, or the game isn't.

But that's just my point of view, as a wizard player.

>> No.46667651

reminder that unchained summoner is a bullshit class that doesn't actually change what made the class broken (ability to summon monster a billion times per day) and than nerfing the ediolon just made the class really boring

reminder that if you want a "fair" version of summoner you should just play spiritualist

>> No.46667680

>>46667651
Anon I don't think anyone here would ever disagree with you.

>> No.46667687

>>46667680
there hasn't been enough bile directed at PFS, sorry

>> No.46667690

>>46667680
I'll disagree with him just for the sake of disagreeing. That's the spirit of /tg/, after all.

>> No.46667700

>>46667687
>>46667690
Oh you

>> No.46667756

>>46667644
>compliment the parties abilities
I'm pretty sure you meant "complement" there, but this one is so much funnier because it implies a patronising asshole.

>> No.46667772

>>46667651
> GM ban Summoner
> play Monster Tactician Inquisitor instead

>> No.46667951

>>46667651
At least unchained fixed the summoner's broke-ass spell list.

>> No.46667957

is there any real reason for alchemists and ESPECIALLY investigators to not take the polymath archetype if it's available (or you really want some other archetype it can't mix with)

full martial progression (and one that lets you drink potions and recover maneuvers in the same round) seems very worth losing 1 spell level per day, especially since alchemist casting is only Pretty Good as is and martial maneuvers make all their other abilities work better

>> No.46667971

>>46667957
*losing 1 spell per level per day, that is

>> No.46668031

>>46667957
There's no reason not to take it because it has literally no downside. DSP balance at its very best, lads.

>> No.46668230

>>46657125
Is hells rebels the one with the teiflings everywhere and shitty pseudo adventurers that you have to mentor and a shitty theater bit?

>> No.46668319

Is there any way to get a Warlock Vigilante's mystic bolts to add an Ability Score to damage?
Because otherwise it seems fairly lackluster.

>> No.46668352

>>46668319
No.

>> No.46668374

>>46668031
pathfinder would be improved spectacularly if you removed every single class besides alchemist/investigator DESU, they can be built/fluffed to do basically anything without having stupid design that makes them broken, overpowered or filled with useless chaff or weird gimmicks that need you to dog ear the rule book every five minutes

>> No.46668431

Is there a way to get mind-affecting immunity for a low-level character (up to 6-7 lvl)?
No 3pp. Not undeath.

>> No.46668446

>>46667756
I may have meant both, just because your being helpful doesn't mean you can't also be an bit asshole as well.

>> No.46668533

>>46668374
Well that's what being top of teir 3 does for a class

>> No.46668653

>>46668374
It doesn't sound like you want to be playing pathfinder, senpai.

>> No.46668884

>>46667651
Only two things I liked about the unchained summoner are the spell list and pounce being 3 points instead of one (i.e. let's wait a few levels before invalidating the martial)

I HATE the flavorlocking.

>> No.46668900

>>46668230
That's Council of Thieves

>> No.46668959

>>46668374
I'd be okay with this if you also include occultist and aegis/soulknife/cryptic

then you have all the pseudo-science classes or ones that can easily be fluffed into one

>> No.46669055

>>46668374
baka senpai just because they're your pet class doesn't mean there aren't those of us who don't find them mechanically boring as fuck desu

>> No.46669154

>>46668431
Be a Wyrwood. They're Constructs.
Be a Ghoran. They're Plants.

>> No.46669309

>>46660297
Spell Sage

>http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/advancedClassGuide/classOptions/wizard.html
>Spell Sage (Archetype)

>Spell Study (Su): At 2nd level, the sage's understanding of the spells of bards, clerics, and druids is so great that he can use his own magic in an inefficient, roundabout way to duplicate those classes' spells. Once per day, a spell sage can spontaneously cast any spell on the bard, cleric, or druid spell list as if it were a wizard spell he knew and had prepared. The casting time for this spell is 1 full round per spell level of the desired spell (using the lowest spell level if the spell is on more than one of the spell lists indicated above) and requires expending two prepared spells of that spell level or higher; if the spell's casting time is normally 1 full round or longer, this time is added to the spell sage's casting time. For example, if a spell sage wants to use spell study to cast cure light wounds (cleric spell level 1st), he must spend 2 full rounds casting and expend two prepared wizard spells of 1st level or higher.

>At 6th level and every 5 levels thereafter, a spell sage can use this ability an additional time per day (to a maximum of four times per day at 16th level). This ability replaces arcane school.

>> No.46669319

new bread when?

>> No.46669372

New thread:
>>46669363
>>46669363
>>46669363

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