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[ERROR] No.46417558 [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

Post fucking awfully designed magic cards, but explain why you think so.

So many things wrong with pic related.

First of all I think that allied colors should be stronger together because that emphasizes the color pie philosophy, one of the most genius parts of the game. I think a good way to do this would be for enemy colors not to have duals or to have worse duals.

Secondly, they are cancer and combined with shock lands (which should not have land types) allow you to run as many colors as you want and not get screwed out of a color 90% of the time.

Finally they allow players to shuffle every single turn.

>> No.46417975

First of all it's better than Savannah Lions, which pisses me off.

Secondly, all of these transforming planeswalkers are stupid. There are already multiple PW versions of these planeswalkers at different points in time. All they needed to do to show the origins was make legendary creatures. The transforming is clunky and the "story-telling" aspect is faggy because A) this is supposed to be a big epic moment, but is going to go down every other frigging game if you have one of these in your deck B) because it trivializes the story when for example Liliana's spark is ignited because "lol another creature you control died".

Neo-Avacyn has nearly the EXACT same problems.

>> No.46418315

>>46417558
>First of all I think that allied colors should be stronger together because that emphasizes the color pie philosophy, one of the most genius parts of the game. I think a good way to do this would be for enemy colors not to have duals or to have worse duals.
Allied color fixing being stronger than enemy color fixing limits design space and deckbuilding decisions.

>Secondly, they are cancer and combined with shock lands (which should not have land types) allow you to run as many colors as you want and not get screwed out of a color 90% of the time.
Not true outside of low-power formats like standard. Modern has Blood Moon and aggro decks which punish excessive use of fetchlands and shocklands. Legacy has Wasteland and Stifle on top of what Modern has. You'll notice that neither format has many 4-5c decks. 4c delver in Legacy is only possible because of Deathrite Shaman.

>Finally they allow players to shuffle every single turn.
At the cost of life and vulnerability to Stifle, Blood Moon, and search hate, yes. It's not like this matters unless you're playing brainstorm.

>>46417975
>First of all it's better than Savannah Lions, which pisses me off.
Savannah Lions is a cool card, but it's weak compared to the creatures they print now. There's a reason that White Weenie hasn't been a force in standard for years. Even with the buffs, Kytheon isn't a staple in any constructed format.

>Secondly, all of these transforming planeswalkers are stupid. There are already multiple PW versions of these planeswalkers at different points in time. All they needed to do to show the origins was make legendary creatures. The transforming is clunky and the "story-telling" aspect is faggy...
This is inane criticism. Flavor is subjective.
I'm not a huge fan of the neowalkers or how all MTG storylines are invariably centered around them, but I thought the origins flip-walkers were a neat use of design space.

tl;dr you're a fag and you suck at magic.

>> No.46418457

>>46418315
>you're a fag
You're a fag, retard.

>> No.46418557

>>46418457
>you're a fag
I'm not the one the who started an entire thread dedicated to whining about modern magic's design when you could easily go into ANY of the current MTG threads and whine about it there like everyone else.

>> No.46418568

>>46417558
>OP has posted all but >>46418315 and this post
Feel free to play whatever you want dude. Fetchlands were made for constructed decks that want to do this shit at the cost of your life, and they are inherently powerful.

Emeny colors have slightly less colorfixing, and substantially less actual card support than allies, so you're first point is just how mtg is?

As for the flip walkers, I don't know why you chose Gideon specifically, but it's a neat use of transform, and implementing story related shit into actual card mechanics is never going to be perfect. I actually like that in my cards so there's some difference in opinion there.

I'm real curious as to what other reasonable shit you take issue with.

>> No.46418754

DUDE SIDEBOARD LMAO

FUCK THE GRAVEYARD

>> No.46420164

Wrath of God was designed to be a a very strong, but not quite degenerate staple of white decks. Unfortunately it nullified regeneration, the rarest and weakest ability in the game.

10 years later they reprint this white staple...the face of white...but with one small difference. They fixed the regeneration? No. They made it black. They printed the iconic white card...in black! With no nerfs or anything!

>> No.46420193

>>46420164
Why are you griping about a card violating the color pie in the block where that was the entire point?

>> No.46420974

>>46417558

The only issue with Fetch Lands in my opinion is that they're Rare. Only Legendary Lands should ever hit Rare or Mythic status since most effective deck builds NEED playsets of Fetches and other similar lands to just be viable, we're not even talking about an optimal build.

But sadly I also understand they push pack sales like nothing else.

>> No.46421147

>>46420974
That and all the extra shuffling time they add to matches, if they had any sense they'd be banned for the same reason top is banned. Fetchlands are cancerous, but it's the game time and money issues that are the problems, not OP's inane rant.

>> No.46421212

>>46420164
>They printed the iconic white card...in black!

That's the entire reason they did it.

>> No.46422962

>>46418754

Entire strategies destroyed by a 2cmc card. I thought they stopped printing this kind of shit wwaayy back in the day. Getting it off the field should return the graveyards back from exile at least.

>> No.46422985

>>46420164

>planar chaos
>bitching about it

found the worst person in human history right here. Literally Hitler 3000

>> No.46423224

I hated fetches they cause breaks in game play with the crazy amount of shuffling.

also cause they make the game pay2win but that not a game play reason.

>> No.46423522

>>46420164
http://mtgsalvation.gamepedia.com/Planar_Chaos
>The 45 timeshifted cards in Planar Chaos (also known as colorshifted or planeshifted) represent cards being reprinted from an alternate reality. They are each functionally identical to an old card, with the crucial exception of their color

>They printed the iconic white card...in black

mfw

>> No.46423560

>> No.46424107

>>46420164

It's like you missed the entire point of the Time Spiral block

>> No.46424155

>>46423560
Stop posting.

>> No.46424281

>>46420974
Well they are god damn ridiculous when it comes to color fixing. They're practically quint lands. When you splash a couple of alpha dual lands or some shocks in, any fetchland within the deck is capable of fetching you any color that you could possibly want.

God help us if WotC ever prints the "legendary dual land" idea where they're basically alpha duals except with the drawback of being legendary.

There are a lot of reasons they should be banned, but they're too valuable and you'd piss off too many people excising them now.

>> No.46424414

>>46420164
I'll start caring about black muscling in on white's mass removal game when black finally gets spot removal that can dethrone fuckups like pic related.

>buh muh exile fits white's fluff of getting rid of things without killing them
Mechanically exiling is super-death, so white's been outperforming black in the killing department since the game's inception. It took them long enough for black to start giving white a taste of its own medicine.

>meanwhile, in the corner, blue only does everything.

>> No.46425883

>>46424281
>They're practically quint lands.
They arent though, because once you grab a dual, you only get the two colors from that dual. It's "pick two of however many colors are in your deck" instead of tapping for all colors all the time. This doesn't matter much when you are splashing a third or fourth color with just 1 symbol, but it makes it really difficult to support uuu, ww, bb, and gg in a 4c control deck, for example.

The interaction between fetches and true duals (and cards like Blood Moon) is also a skill testing interaction, and it adds a lot of depth to designing mana bases for different kinds of decks.

>> No.46425896

>>46424414
>fuck up
>from the first set

Black gets removal that has no downside, plow has a minor downside but still has a downside.

>> No.46426156

>>46425883
>The interaction between fetches and true duals (and cards like Blood Moon) is also a skill testing interaction
> The interaction between fetches and true duals is also a skill testing interaction
> Realizing that a card can do what's printed right there in the words is a skill testing interaction
When your definition of "skill" is "basic ability to read a goddamn card", you're really scraping the bottom of the barrel.
Blood Moon et al are more excusable to claim as "skill tests". Barely.

>> No.46426221

>>46426156
Knowing what to fetch when. If you're playing 3-5 colors, you can't just fetch random lands and expect it to work out.

>> No.46426335

>>46423560

>I want all planeswalkers to be Jace the Mind Sculptor

>> No.46426390

>>46417975
You used "faggy" as a generic insult. After that, literally nothing you could say would give you any credibility. Please leave.

>> No.46426404

>>46424281
And yet Modern and Legacy are not ruled by five color decks. Why do you suppose that is? Oh wait, it's because the fetches are fine and you're a retard who should just stop playing this game because you're so bad at it.

>> No.46426453

>>46426156
>he's never been fucked over because he fetched wrong
Do you actually play magic? Or do you just complain about it on serbian woodcarving imageboards?

>> No.46426539

>>46426390
LOL

>> No.46426868

>>46417558
>irst of all I think that allied colors should be stronger together because that emphasizes the color pie philosophy, one of the most genius parts of the game. I think a good way to do this would be for enemy colors not to have duals or to have worse duals.

You're retarded. This simply makes no sense.

Secondly, they are cancer and combined with shock lands (which should not have land types) allow you to run as many colors as you want and not get screwed out of a color 90% of the time.

You're really retarded. Allowing flexibility isn't a bad thing, you retarded mongol.

>Finally they allow players to shuffle every single turn.
This is annoying, but annoying at most.

Your other posts are ridiculous, but I have better shit to do so Ima let you be.

>> No.46426942

>>46417558

>allied colors should be stronger together

Who decided that "allied colors" were supposed to be a thing?

Top-tier decks throughout Magic's history have run any number of combinations with no regard for whether they were comprised of "allied colors".

You're making the same complaint people make when they say "color X is better than color Y." The color doesn't matter; the cards do.

>> No.46427048

>>46426942
>The color doesn't matter; the cards do.
Not him, but isn't "color matters" an integral part of design philosophy for MtG? Or am I misunderstanding you?

>> No.46427062

>>46425883

>The interaction between fetches and Brainstorm is also a skill testing interaction

ftfy

>> No.46427184

>>46417558
Poorfag scrub detected. Git gud

>> No.46427188

Is it time for the weekly "Magic was only good when I was twelve and no one I played with new what they were doing" thread?

>> No.46427306

>>46427048

You're right, but that doesn't have anything to do with what cards people will put in their decks or why. Prosperity Bloom ran cards that worked together regardless of which colors they were.

>> No.46427541

This tacked on ability is so ham-fisted and dumb.

>>46424414
>wanting something even more degenerate than StP

No, you don't get that.

>>46426390
lol

>> No.46427575

>>46417558
These and the ally fetchlands are both poorly designed for the same reason the force of will cycle is, which is that it's using life payment as a color neutral cost. Paying life should stick to being a black thing.

>> No.46427595

>>46426390
Fuck off you faggy faggot.

>> No.46428363

>>46425896
Please direct me to the cmc 1 black instant that kills any targetable creature with no downside.

>> No.46428976

>>46418315
>>46421147
>>46426390
This is some next level samefagging, I can smell it.

>one person calls OP an inane fag
>one person is an SJW
>one person pretends to agree with OP but calls him INANE

It's like a fucking triangle dude.

>> No.46429101

>>46418754
>>46422962
DUDE SIDEBOARD LMAO

FUCK THE ENTIRE THEROS BLOCK

>> No.46429102

>>46418315
me
>>46421147
also me
>>46426390
me again
>>46428976
and totally me

>> No.46429115

>>46428976
>People don't agree with me, they must be samefagging!
Nice try loser.

>> No.46429141

>>46429101
>Hey Mark, we need a safety valve just in case the overcosted enchantments in Theros see play!

>TIME FOR ANOTHA...DWIVE TA WOHK

>> No.46429195

>>46429141
Truly expert design.

>> No.46430709

>>46428363
It doesnt exist. Because black has removal thats more limited in its targetting.

Furthermore, claiming that a card in the first set breaks the color pie is completely asinine. The color pie didn't exist before Plow. Plow, and the rest of alpha, defined the color pie.

>> No.46430887

>>46418754
The only thing worse than cards that shut down entire decks are the people who are willing to play them. Absolutely disgusting.

>> No.46430909

>>46418754
>>46430887
Maybe yall shouldn't play hyper linear decks

>> No.46430938

As neat as this card can be, what really bugs me about it is its pushed mana cost. Compare to most green wurms, and you'll find that not only does Wurmcoil Engine generally have better stats for the mana, but trades trample for the combination of deathtouch and lifelink. On top of that, it splits into two wurms, each with one of the abilities and not just vanilla. That generally ends up as twelve power over three bodies, plus a nice chunk of life if you get even one combat with him. Bonkers.

I get that it's from an artifact-heavy block and it's a chase mythic, but why did it have to completely blow out green wurms entirely while being easier and/or cheaper to cast? It's not a badly-designed card in a vacuum, but it's pretty much the best wurm ever printed, and it doesn't even need colored mana. What happened to color requirements influencing power levels? Imagine if it were printed in the Urza block. The thing would probably cost nine mana.

>> No.46431014

>>46430938
It was supposed to be the artifact equivalent of the titans. Its supposed to be comparable to Primeval Titan, which is a lot closer.

Also, if that were printed in Urza's block, you could sacrifice it to make each player set aside their hand face down, and draw seven cards. Then, at end of turn, each player discards his or her hand and returns to their hand each card set aside this way.

>> No.46431047

>>46430938
It was printed when the titans were in standard and they set the bar for 6+ drops as if it cost 6 or more but was worse than a titan why play it in the first place?

it and consecrated sphinx had to be pushed to even be considered at the time.

>> No.46432769

>>46430938
>>46431014
Everything about the titans was pure cancer. Fuck every standard format those shitters touched.

>>46428976
>>46429102
Try not having the opinions of a retard. Only one those is me.

>> No.46433086

>We want to make something that makes for fun and exiting gameplay
>You know what is really fun? Not casting any spells for the rest of the game

>> No.46435002

>>46433086
Usually I hate the FTV cards, but they gave trinisphere the best flavor text.

Turn one workshop trinisphere gg?

>> No.46435193

> 2 mana 2 color kill spell? That's fine.
> it can hit anything that isnt a land
B-better make it have a restriction. Hitting anything less than 4 cmc is fine, I-I mean what formats play pretty much all <4 drops?
>uncounterable
Who the fuck needs to test cards right?

>> No.46435381

>>46435193
they printed this specifically to stop the counterbalance menace in legacy. The irony of course is everyone plays decay and miracles is still the best deck.

>> No.46435400

>>46417558
>First of all I think that allied colors should be stronger together
I think the fetch lands were a mistake but this line of reasoning is wrong. Color pairs should be treated equally.

>> No.46435487 [DELETED] 

>>46417975
Linking cards with story moments is bad all around. Cards in your deck should feel like things you are making happen in the moment, not recreating already established story events.

>> No.46435603

>>46429101
>not playing pic related instead

>> No.46435668

>>46435381
The real irony is that even if counterbalance was banned miracles wouldn't even take that much of a hit.
I still don't understand why people think countertop is more egregious than terminus.

>> No.46435757

>>46435668
>even if counterbalance was banned miracles wouldn't even take that much of a hit.

>> No.46435803

>>46420164
Black has a long history of mass removal. Damnation is the least color pie breaking planar chaos cards.

I guess ITT we pretend we're retarded about the color pie?

Man, look at pic related. Jace's Archivist and Windfall were designed to be wheel effects, but they always had a disadvantage of being bad if every player was running out of juice. Then they go and print this sucker ... in red! With no nerfs or anything!

>> No.46435871

These fucking lands man. The problem is that they're so binary. Either the format has good ways to interact with lands, or it doesn't. If it does, these lands are terrible. If it doesn't, these lands singlehandedly destroy control as a viable archetype.

Wizards needs to dump the orb of stupification and reprint Rishadan Port and Wasteland in a standard legal format.

>> No.46435952

>>46417558
>First of all I think that allied colors should be stronger together because that emphasizes the color pie philosophy,

Dear you.
Fuck you.
The idea that "allied" colors should be stronger than "enemy" colors is retarded.
There's no reason for it "philosophically." While two enemy colors may oppose each other in some regards, there is more than enough room within the pie to not only find common ground, but for a combination of the two to end up having their strengths counteract each others' weaknesses.

For instance, while Blue suffers from the negative trait of Inaction, combining it with Red's trait of action makes quite a successful hybrid.

>> No.46435956

>>46435757
>If I post a reaction image that means I'm right
The deck would still be tier 1, there have been more decks with terminus that don't play counterbalance than vice-versa and there would still be a space in the meta for a UW control deck. If terminus was banned, the deck would take a much bigger hit.
It is a very nice reaction image though.

>> No.46435975

>>46435803

... How to say it...

>> No.46436671

>>46435193
Yeah, cause no one plays 1-3 drops in legacy or vintage anymore. So oppressive.

>>46435668
Miracles is fine. People who complain about it tend to be people who don't know how to play around wraths, or who think that as soon as counterbalance top is in play they can't cast spells anymore

>> No.46436805

>>46428363
murderous cut is close...

>> No.46436840

>>46435668
>not locking your opponent out on turn 3

>> No.46437037

>>46418754
>Grafdigger's Cage
>Ratchet Bomb
>Ash Zealot

Just fuck my Standard up familia

>>46433086
Salty storm player detected.

>>46435952
MaRo wrote an entire article way back in the early 2000s about how enemy colors interact that was pretty good (by MaRo standards)

>> No.46437091

Dual lands in general that don't enter the battlefield tapped.

Like, we get it, you want to breach the 'one basic land a turn' clause. Except objectively better lands don't do anything but make decks more expensive, so stop doing it, and just let everyone use the basic lands like men.

>> No.46437092 [DELETED] 

>>46435952
U a fukin retard dude

Alli colors got more ovalap den enemy color thass why they arranged on tha color wheel n thass why they allis in the first place. They wuz designed that way n thass how they iz.

FUGG OFF

>> No.46437419

>>46417558
How dare they print cards that help my opponent win: The Thread

>> No.46437802

>>46437419
????????
This has to be bait.

>> No.46438017

>>46417558
This fucker and Restoration Angel, aka, let's make slowest Standard Ever. Seriously, wtf.

>> No.46438537

>>46426335
You must be new here.

>> No.46438898

>>46437802
It's not bait.

If a card is good you're allowed to use it too faggit

>> No.46439022

>>46436671
I think you meant to respond to >>46436840, I implied I don't think countertop is a hard lock not that miracles was too good.
>>46437037
>Salty storm player detected.
Pretty much, though I hate playing against (or with) trinisphere with any other decks as well. It's not like I mind losing, my favorite matchups with storm are bug delver and mono black pox (even beat nether void the first time it was cast on me) which both have decent match ups vs storm, but trinisphere is just painfully stupid.

>> No.46439050

>>46438898
>If a card is good you're allowed to buy it too faggit

>> No.46439445

Fuck this gay earth

>> No.46439536

>>46437091
Then why is it that in the legacy deck that runs 35-36 lands, the land the deck wants most turn 1 is a basic forest

>> No.46439577

>>46439050
Assblasted poorfag detected

>> No.46439962

>>46426390
faggy faggot

>> No.46440931

>>46435871
No fuck that just ban Tron Lands, Tron is gay and bad anyway. Gets recked by burn and other aggro decks, then beats the anti aggro decks. Degenerate.

>> No.46441086

>>46440931
Nice try, Mishra. Stay salty about the fact that you'll NEVER EVER be as popular as Urza.

>> No.46441990

>>46421212
And because, you know, boardwipes/removal in general is a Black thing as well.

>> No.46442084

>>46441086
You want to say that to my face motherfucker

>> No.46442665

>>46435871
Please, let me port some standard kiddies to death

>> No.46442871

>>46438017

If thrag was 3GG and made the beast on death trigger it'd be a lot more reasonable and make sense.

>> No.46445734

"Its OK as long as its a creature" is a bit of a retarded design philosophy. Griselbrand and Emrakul might be costed reasonably for what they do, but the existence of cards that make them essentially 1-3 mana 'You win if this attacks' or 'You win if this enters the battlefield' cards.

>> No.46445777

>>46445734
Don't talk shit about big grizzy.

>> No.46445950

>>46438017
I get the impression they wanted to print something that worked with flickering, but didn't expect it to be THAT oppressive.

>> No.46445974

>>46445734
Fuck man, Griselbrand even comes with a built-in bottle opener. This demon means fucking bidnizz.

>> No.46446009

>>46423560
I want to fuck Nahiri.

>> No.46446163

>>46435803
wasn't there a red card called wheel of fate from planar chaos that did the same as you pic?

>> No.46446172

>>46446009
Me too. Kor are hot.

>> No.46446227

>>46435871
Tron did not destroy control. If it did, any deck which beat control, ie. fast uninteractive decks, would make control stronger in the metagame. Unfortunately this isn't that case, as not only does control lose to Tron, but control also loses to fast uninteractive decks. Control loses to basically everything in Modern because the cards don't exist for control to be viable.

>> No.46446760

>>46446163
>>46435803
Wheel effects are traditionally Red and Red does them best.

"Wheel of Fate" was printed in Time Spiral, and its gimmick is that it has time shenanigans due to it being a suspend spell.

Both Wheel of Fate and Magus of the Wheel are references to Wheel of Fortune, a red card from Alpha.

>> No.46446884

>>46446760
I hope we get a new-age wheel with Chandra, Flamecaller's 0 on it. 2r discard your hand and draw that many cards +1.

>> No.46446925

>>46446884

i feel like the most red aspect of the effect is that it gives your opponents 7 cards too

which is kinda sad

am i self-hating red fag?

>> No.46447475

>>46424414
>buh muh exile fits white's fluff of getting rid of things without killing them
That's not the only fluff behind white exile. Exiling removes things from the game without putting them in your opponent's graveyard -- you know, where the zombies come from. It's Magic's means of establishing as a mechanic things like Turn Undead, destroying the brain, staking the vampire, etc. It's made to keep things from coming back.
Pic obviously related.

>> No.46447528

>>46446760
I don't mean to turn this into another 'abloo bloo wizard hates my color' thread, but it still pisses me off that red got rituals immediately before wizards decided to never print competitive rituals ever again.
>black doesn't get rituals anymore
>still no red version of Dark Ritual, which remains the best ritual in the game
this is honestly just a travesty and an injustice

>> No.46447615

>>46447528
Red should never have gotten rituals

>> No.46447634

>>46447528
>still no red version of Dark Ritual, which remains the best ritual in the game
>this is honestly just a travesty and an injustice

>red decks are not fast enough for me

>> No.46447635

>>46447615
Why not? Rituals fit red mechanically and flavorfully. Also he's forgetting Manamorphose.

>> No.46447664

>>46447635
Manamorphose isn't a ritual though.

>> No.46447792

>>46447635
Manamorphose is R/G hybrid. It seems kind of stupid to me that mono-green can run it, but I guess the color-fixing part is kind of green. I'm not sure if that counts as a ritual, strictly speaking, but it's a cool card.
>>46447634
I will admit that I don't want RDW to run away with the game and just blow people out, so I can understand why they're cautious with them. But I feel as though rituals, properly designed, might actually help red as a color break away from the "all aggro all the time" schtick they've kind of been forced into. This is why I have a soft spot for the bigger, splashier rituals, like Mana Guyser, and I really like that ritual-enchantment thing they printed for red in SOI.

>> No.46448011

>>46447635
Not really. "Ree is impulsive, black kills shit" is a more modern change the color pie. Black cards were balanced around dark ritual. Red cards are not.

>> No.46448048

>>46448011
Uh... that doesn't explain how red should never have gotten rituals. Black cards WERE balanced around dark ritual. Red cards WERE not because they didn't have a ritual effect, and ARE NOT now because wizards doesn't like to print good ritual effects. The distinction that these are modern interpretations of the color pie doesn't change that with the modern interpretation of the color pie, rituals are well within red's abilities both mechanically and flavorfully.

>> No.46448082

>>46447475
Why is marit lage a better farmer than a squire?

>> No.46448086

>>46448011
>Rituals don't fit into red's color pie. "Red is impulsive" is a modern change to the color pie.

This makes no sense. It doesn't fit because it's been changed more recently, and the change now allows it to fit, but it doesn't "really" fit?

>> No.46448108

>>46448082
You know what they say, many tentacles makes light work.

>> No.46448141

>>46448011
>Black cards were balanced around dark ritual.
in what world is
>swamp, dark rit, necropotence, necro for 7
balanced

>> No.46448185

>waah waah waah

face it
none of the cards posted in this thread are as broken as a Perilous Myr

>> No.46448203

>>46448185
So broken they took it out of Magic Duels.

>> No.46448258

>>46448086
Black trades one resource for another.

Red deals damage, and punishes opponents.

>> No.46448273

>>46424414
"Removed from game" and gaining life fits a warrior going off to become a farmer.
The shoving Remove-is-now-exile rule change ruined this a little, but in the orginal design. This was prefect.

>>46447475
This, does not fit. As banishing from existence makes no sense. A better fit might have been
W,t: Destroy target ... Simulating killing undead.
AND also having a "Exile target creature in graveyard." for a cheaper cost. Simulating burning the bodies.
Same overall effect but more in line.

>> No.46448333

>>46448273
But that's NOT the flavor of the card. The card is supposed to be a magical undead slayer that is destroying them entirely, leaving nothing behind to reanimate. It's not just some dude stabbing a zombie then burning it.

>> No.46448337

>>46448258
Black can do damage and punish opponents, and red can trade resources for other resources. Coincidentally, those are some of the things they have the biggest overlap with. So I don't know what your point is.

>> No.46448524

>>46448273
>As banishing from existence makes no sense.
What a compelling and comprehensive argument!
It could have been better, though, if you knew how to write and read English.

>W,t: Destroy target ... Simulating killing undead.AND also having a "Exile target creature in graveyard." for a cheaper cost. Simulating burning the bodies.Same overall effect but more in line.
You do realize that the fact that it WASN'T formatted like this actually supports my point that exiling represents the destruction of undead, right? Seriously, "more in line" with what? YOUR idea of how flavor is supposed to line up with mechanics, or with Wizards'? Fucking dumbass.

>> No.46449127

>>46435871
i ran thse in an eldrazi deck and it was stupid, search for them and it was a quick gg, i remember managing to pop off a 3r'd turn emrakual

>> No.46449188

>>46449127
>i remember managing to pop off a 3r'd turn emrakual
Are you retarded

>> No.46449240

>>46429101
>played mono-green in THS-KTK standard
>have relatively small member pool
>like 4 people running constalation enchantments
>have 4 of these in the sideboard for the sole purpose of fucking them over
They got so mad.

>> No.46449262

>>46449127
Yeah, I don't think that's possible.
And why did you put an apostrophe in "3rd"?

>> No.46449368

>>46449262
Its absolutely possible to cheat out an Eldrazi within 3 turns, but through tron? Nahbrah.

>> No.46449386

>>46430709
>Furthermore, claiming that a card in the first set breaks the color pie is completely asinine.
>he doesn't know about prodigal sorcerer
Play shandalar senpai. It will give you an idea of the dumb shit Wizards did back then. I actually agree with you and like StP, but your argument is bad.

>> No.46449428

>>46449368
Well, yeah, that's what I'm saying

>> No.46449454

>>46449386
>prodigal sorcerer
>timeshifted card
>breaking color wheel

You trollin mate?

>> No.46449552

>>46449454
What are you talking about? Prodigal sorcerer is from the very first set.

>> No.46449586

>>46435803
Still pisses me off you have to sacrifice him. Compared to Jace's Archivist, it doesn't make any sense.

>> No.46449630

>>46449552
http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=108906

Nice try buckaroo :^)

>> No.46450212

>>46449630
Click sets and legality. Here:
http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Printings.aspx?multiverseid=108906
Wow look at that. Limited Edition Alpha.

>> No.46450883

>>46449630
>Nice try buckaroo :^)
Timeshifted cards were from earlier sets, honey-child.

You're thinking of Planar Chaos, which was alternate universe versions of cards.

>> No.46453674

>>46417975
>Kytheon, hero of akros fully written on the top paragraph
>Kytheon on the bottom ability
why

>> No.46453723

I have to agree with the shuffling thing, people don't realize just how much time it adds to games. Not just time but they really do feel like IRL loading screens. Ironically they are a non issue online.

>> No.46453974

>>46453674
Because legendary creatures only need to reference their full name once. Kytheon is far from the first one that does this.

>> No.46454534

>>46428363
Swords has a downside. If you want a comparable card, Vendetta makes the same life swing. Don't be an asshole.

>> No.46454561

>>46448185
Looking at current standard power level, this thing is actually ridiculous giving ~3 power for 2 colorless

>> No.46454588

mono decks would actually matter without dual lands

>> No.46454599

>>46426390
Take your butthurt SJW ass back to tumblr where it belongs.

>> No.46454604

>>46438017
I haven't played for a really long time.. gotta say, this card looks unimpressive.

>> No.46454623

>>46448203
It was broke as fuck in that game. The 1/1 you didn't want to chump, ever.

>> No.46454739

>>46454599
Not that guy but desu m8 I've kind of outgrown hating on faggots. Let people stick their dick wherever they want.

>> No.46454773

>>46453723

>> No.46454784

>>46454534
The player casting the spell losing 4-5 life is not the same as giving your opponent 4-5 life. Life gain on it's own is terrible, especially when the person casting swords is the control deck that doesn't care about your life total. When so many of blacks good cards require spending more life, it makes you want to play white for your removal in your black deck, this is fundamentally the issue with Swords to Plowshares vs. Black Removal in general. Black is perfectly good at killing creatures it's one of the single biggest things in it's color pie, but for some reason white has always been given better creature removal.

>> No.46455035

>>46454561
yeah and get a +1 counter on it and that motherfucker can take down a Craw Wurm

>> No.46455117

>>46423560
>got this as promo on pre release
>sole reason i won 3 games out of 11

fight me.

>> No.46455188

>>46454604
Both effects trigger on flicker, ie you can spam it's etb lifegain and exits for free tokens and when it finally does die to removal it still leaves another token behind

A single flicker effect is 10 life and 8 power on the board with upside

>> No.46455487

>>46455188
You forgot that if it actually DID die to removal you could just Unburial Rites it and do it all over again.

>> No.46455932

>>46454784
That's the color pie working as intended. Black has never been the best color for removal, it's always had situational removal or removal with a downside

>>46449386
Not sure what the problem with prodigal sorcerer is. Overcosted direct damage being blue isn't really a problem. Psionic blast and prodigal sorcerer are both fine.

>> No.46455978

>>46455932
"Any color can do it if it's overcosted" is not a good design philosophy. Colors having limitations to what they can do allows you to be creative about their slices of the pie to deal with and get around their problems. Letting colors do everything if it's overcosted doesn't mean anything in the end because if it's overcosted it's bad so it wont' see play, so the fact that it can do it is totally irrelevant. And prodigal sorcerer is not overcosted. It's the baseline for a pinger.

Psionic Blast is probably appropriately

>> No.46456835

>>46455932
Black's thing really isn't "situational removal", though.
White has situational stuff more often than not, and now usually has an aura-based "prison" to put troublesome creatures in.
White and black are both spot-removal colors and at various times throughout magic's history one has been stronger than the other. Just recently we had fucking Murderous Cut, which may as well read "B: Destroy Target Creature."
Black would rather something be dead than erased from existence anyways; being dead means it can be used later.

>> No.46456983

>>46455978
Actually, I think it is pretty good design. Look at Infinity the Game. All of the factions can do a good 90% of what the other factions can...just not as well or as efficiently. This hasn't led to all the factions feeling same-y. If anything, it's given more variation than there otherwise would be.

This is a lesson I think Magic would do well to learn.

>> No.46457229

>>46445734
>Not liking Grislebrand
>Not liking the king of blacks most famous and most powerful ability in the shell of blacks most iconic creature type

>> No.46457884

>>46456983
It's not an issue of feeling same-y, though that could be one. The problem is that if you make poorly costed effects in the colors that they don't normally fit in, they're going to end up being less good than the things the colors do naturally anyway. That makes the cards pointless. There's no reason to do it just because you can. So you can give colors more defined roles by just cutting out the concept of letting anything do anything if you just make it too expensive to matter. Besides that, the roles and abilities colors gets help accentuate the things they're good at it. Blue doesn't want stuff like Prodigal Sorcerer or Psionic Blast. Blue will play Rapid Hybridization or Reality Shift over Psionic Blast, or even bounce spells, because blue only needs to live long enough to drop its real threats, not pay a premium for a terrible burn spell or a utility creature killing dude.

>> No.46457964

>>46424107
Idiots like him are the reason Maro won't let us have another block like that.

>> No.46457980

>>46457964
To be real though Serra Sphinx is pretty mindboggling. Just feels wrong.

>> No.46458068

>>46429195
Do people still actually think targeting that thing is hard? Twenty-sided dice are fucking everywhere, I've got like 20 just from prereleases and shit.

>> No.46458245

>>46455117
And yet I won like 6 of my games because of a wonky-ass 4-mana enchantment.

>> No.46458429

>>46455932
>>46455932
>situational removal
What is Murder!?
What is Heroes Downfall?
What is Murderous Cut?
What is Plague Wind?
What is In Garruks Wake?
What is Ruinous Path?
What is Damnation?

Do you even play Magic? Black is literally the ONLY colour with non situational creature removal.

>> No.46458733

>>46418315
>>46418315
>Allied color fixing being stronger than enemy color fixing limits design space and deckbuilding decisions.
Ya think?

>> No.46458847

>>46456983
You and I clearly disagree so fundamentally, that I doubt I could ever see eye to eye with you on anything pertaining to MTG. But at the very least, you provided an example (though admittedly one I don't know anything about).

>> No.46458870

>>46458429
He's talking about old MtG, obviously. He wishes the color pie stayed how it was in alpha and therefore has no problems with Blue getting Amnesia and Black only getting Terror.

>> No.46460611

Tarmogoyf.

Because why have interesting, reasonably-costed big creatures that have synergy and can be built around when you can have vanilla 2-mana 4/5s?

And if you disagree, name a beaty creature played in Legacy that's older than Tarmo.

>> No.46461471

>>46460611
Nimble Mongoose is basically the same thing as goyf, big if shit goes to the graveyard, which it will.

>> No.46463140

>>46447475
>let's counter skeletons, one of the weakest tribes after gryphons!

Ugh.

>> No.46463244

>>46463140
Gotta hose those Reassembling Skeletons m80.

>> No.46463268

>>46454588
Mono decks would matter if there were more cards that require more than one of a specific color to cast. Interestingly, it's mostly black that gets higher devotion requirements than other colors.

>> No.46463319

>>46463268
It is a piss poor way of balancing cards though and leads to shit like Phyrexian Obliterator, a card that saw no play because of Dismember, but fuck did it ruin a lot of people's days.

>> No.46463350

>>46463268
I like that quirk, it's a neat combination of color philosophy and game mechanics.

>> No.46463947

>>46463319
Multiple of the same devotion cost should have diminishing returns, but still matter. I don't want everything to always be multi-colored. Sometimes it's nice to just slap a bunch of swamps and utility lands on the field and run over the opponent with zombies.

>> No.46463969

>>46463244
I immidiately imagined that "too chivelrous for this shit" paladin watering a skeleton with a garden hose. Thanks for the laugh.

>> No.46464022

>>46463947
In these sort of situations, I much prefer effects like corrupt over costs like invoke prejudice.

>> No.46464343

>>46427062
It actually is. There are a lot of decisions in blue legacy decks and you can certainly make mistakes with fetching.

>> No.46465104

>>46463140
Yeah, it's kind of crazy how busted she is situationally speaking, but if the creature isn't any of those types she's just a 2/2 for 3. Cleric, if that matters, but it usually doesn't.

>> No.46465128

>>46430909
>graveyard strategies
>hyper linear

>> No.46465152

>>46423560
>this card
>RW

>> No.46465223

>>46439445
At least they can still put cards in their gy unlike >>46418754

>> No.46465256

>>46439445
>exile
>black

Why doesn't it destroy the graveyard like a black card should?

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