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[ERROR] No.46305264 [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

Pathfinder General - /pfg/

Magical Child Did Nothing Wrong! Edition

Unified /pfg/ link repository: http://pastebin.com/YhdxTQS6
Ultimate Intrigue vigilante+archetypes+research: http://imgur.com/a/tlwEX
Ultimate Intrigue feats: http://imgur.com/a/PA4eT

Old Thread: >>46299525

>> No.46305384

Baneposting discipline commissioned to DSP when?

>> No.46305410

>>46305264
The problem is that it didn't do anything RIGHT either.

>> No.46305414

>>46305384
I get the impression that the total price of drinks Gareth needs to get him through writing it might rival the amount donated for it in the first place.

>> No.46305418

>>46305264
Wait, when has awoo stopped being the OP image?

>> No.46305422

>>46305264
NotHomu did everything wrong!

>> No.46305453

Let's say you had a vivisectionist alchemist in the same party as somebody with a familiar. What would be the best familiar to get a permanent Anthropomorphic Animal at 9th level?

>> No.46305478

>>46305422
Unlike actual Homu, who did everything for pure love

>> No.46305491

Poor Homu, she will never be loved

>> No.46305501 [SPOILER] 

>>46305422
You just don't understand AI YO

>> No.46305546

Best schools too oppose as a wizard?

I was thinking necromancy and enchantment. Then unbanning necromancy with opposition research at level 9.

>> No.46305562

>>46305422

Magical Child is not bad

It's main problems are that that it's not an Avenger or Stalker and if you wanted to play an arcane spellcaster why aren't you playing a wizard/sorcerer/bard/summoner/witch/etc

>> No.46305574

>>46305546
Those are fine. There are a few gems in Enchantment like Heroism that kinda suck to lose, but you can always make scrolls or wands. Dominate can be doled out to captured targets in downtime, so that's not much of a loss.

>> No.46305575

>>46305562

Compare this to the hulk vigilante which is just terrible bad no good wrong terrible worse than kineticist T6 class

>> No.46305594

Is there something like Winter Witch's Unearthly Cold, but for fire spells? I need some way to bypass fire immunity so my pyromancer won't be useless as shit when a dragon/demon/elemental/whatever comes along.

>> No.46305596

>>46305562
It's bad in the sense that it has the wrong spell list for a Magical Girl. It should really have something more like the Magus list, or an Evocation wizard list, but instead it has Unchained Summoner for some stupid reason.

>> No.46305613

>>46305596
I'd really expect a magical girl to either have support abilities along the lines of a Bard, or just pure straight-up blasting, but instead they got "GO FIGHT FOR ME, KERO-CHAN!", which doesn't even WORK until seventh level, your familiar will just get KILLED.

>> No.46305617

>>46305596

Technically it has the Summoner spell list

>> No.46305626

>>46305613

Make it a protector or mauler familiar

>> No.46305633

>>46305562
>>46305596
>>46305613

Magical Child is mechanically playable, it has spells and versatility in familiar.
People are angry because it's not what a magical girl class should have been. It's a Vigilante Summoner archetype given magical girl fluff for marketing.

>> No.46305639

>>46305633

"Magical Girl" can include anything from Nanoha to Bewitched

>> No.46305668

>>46305639
"Vigilante crusader" can also include a wide variety of things, from batman to watchmen to deadpool.
Vigilante was designed to be the most archetypical middle-ground masked crusader to build off. Magical Child should have been that too.

>> No.46305679

>>46305639
Name one Maho Shoujo where the fight is predominantly done by the cute pet.

>> No.46305684

>>46305668

It has magic, a mascot, and a colorful transformation sequence

>> No.46305685

You only really need a single dip into the magical girl archetype for the qt familiar and the transformation sequence.
Otherwise, skip it entirely and just buy a Sleeves of Many Garments and slap some Prestidigitation and Glammer Illusions on that shit.

You can then proceed to your main mahou shoujo class for everything else.
If you're a 'friend to all living things' mahou shoujo - roll a druid or witch
If you're a 'befriend someone by lasering them to death' - roll a sorc
If you're a 'I will fix all my friends' and families' problems with magic' - roll a wizard
If you're a 'listen to my soooooooooong' mahou shoujo - roll a bard, skald, rubato, invest in perform: song
If you're a clow card collector - roll an occultist
If you're a kickass mahou shoujo like pretty precures - roll an initiator and wear a frilly dress
If you made a contract with an eldritch horror like any of the Megucas - roll any DSP material
If you have a thing for several wardrobe changes and disguises with a handful of utility to top it off, ala Cutie Honey, St. Tail, etc. - then stick with Magical Child
If none of them suit your fancy, there's the Knight Chandler and Chosen One Paladin
If you want to save Madoka - kill yourself, you evil bitch

>> No.46305693

>>46305679
Magic Knights ReyEarth?

>> No.46305694

>>46305679

There's nothing about the archetype that is particularly geared around fighting with a familiar

>> No.46305712

>>46305685

>> No.46305715

>>46305685
How would you stat pic related?

>> No.46305726

>>46305715
Oracle. Also Homu v2
Just as gay and still did everything wrong

>> No.46305741

>>46305684

Sadly the magic doesn't really work too well with the other mechanics or the theme.

>> No.46305752

>>46305715
I don't know what pic related is, so.

>> No.46305767

>>46305752
Ever heard of Image Search?

>> No.46305770

Is ultimate intrigue any good?

>> No.46305779

>>46305741

>It has magic
>It doesn't give up any Vigilante abilities except some talents and specialization
>AND It has ALL of the Vigilante social abilities
>AND it has a stronger than normal familiar
>Whoa, better slow down this might get too powerful

Paizo's thinking process for it

>> No.46305831

>>46305596
>>46305613
I'm just going to play Warlock and fluff it as magical girl.

>> No.46305858

>>46305767
No.

>> No.46305861

>>46305779

Oh, it's a pretty good Vigilante.

It's just...there is like ONE magical girl you can actually make from it. The Dragon girl from the 3rd season of Nanoha.

Save for the part where she'd be 200% better done with a normal summoner so that she can call up Godzilla Dragon at high levels with her Eidolon. And you can't even have it be a dragon until 7th level.

I think it would have worked a lot better if they'd given it a much more evocation based spell list and let you cast from the familiars space as if it was your own. That would at least let you make more magical girls (If not as well as an actual other class)

>> No.46305863

>>46305453
Something with a fluffy tail.

>> No.46305886

>>46305831
I've been thinking about actually putting (mostly) ranged blasting discipline into numbers, but in 3.x your typical magical girl doesn't look that hot, T3 at best, T4 most likely. She flies, blasts things really good, and maybe blocks blasts and/or other damage, and that's it. She might have ONE T2-1 ability, but some of them are not really appropriate for PCs.

>> No.46305896

>>46305886

You could honestly get away with giving her 9th level blasting in 6th level spells like how the Bard gets 9th level enchantment in 6th level spells.

Blasting is generally weak for it's level at the best of times.

>> No.46305916

>>46305896
That's class design though. I though about a discipline you can slap on anything capable of initiating maneuvers, because for classes there's Tome of Radiance already. It's questionable, but I don't really want to fix it.

>> No.46305932

>>46305886
IMO, you can actually do a pretty good T3 magical girl with straight occultist.

It's got a spell list that includes classic evocations, it's got a handful of spells up to 8th or so included in the 6th level list, it's got enough gewgaws to fit the whole MAGIC HEART TIARA thing...

It just needs an archetype that trades out some stuff to reduce mental focus costs by 1, at which point you can use Energy Ray for up-to-10d6 blasts all day.

>> No.46305953

Is ultimate intrigue any good?

>> No.46305955

>>46305953

Gods no. The feats are mostly 'Did you really need a feat for this?' sort of stuff and the archtypes are almost entirely junk (The poor, poor Paladin)

>> No.46305966

>>46305886

That would be fun.

You could make a basic stance that gives ranged attacks without a weapon.

>> No.46305987

>>46305932
Also to swap it to Cha or Wis instead of Int.

>> No.46305998

>>46305685
>If you're a clow card collector - roll an occultist

More details pls

>> No.46306014

>>46305384

>> No.46306015

>>46305715

Hmm, perhaps a synthesist with some feat that overcharges your bond at the price of ability drain?

>> No.46306052

>>46305998
6th level casting plus some free magic circle/binding stuff plus a Magic of Incarnum-lite like system where you put points into different implements and get buffs based on how you divided it up.

>> No.46306064

>>46305955
Really? So the consensus is another failed supplement by paizo?

>> No.46306075

>>46306064
There are a few pretty cool things in amongst the archetypes; generally niche, but good for what they do.

the problem is that there's only like, 4 or 5 of them in amongst 25+ archetypes

>> No.46306097

>>46306064
Define "failed". /pfg/ has this weird habit of holding Paizo to higher standards than their beloved 3pp cock, and so when Paizo publishes a supplement where less than half the options are to any one person's taste, it's trash, but when DSP does it, it's a wonderment. Ultimate Intrigue brought us a suite of new T3 options and /pfg/ hates them all because... reasons.

>> No.46306098

>>46306064

Pretty much. Any decent ideas are ruined by terrible implementation.

>> No.46306122

>>46306097
>holding 1pp to higher standards to 3pp
lol

>> No.46306126

>>46306064
Mostly.

As with much of what Paizo produces, there are certainly some diamonds, or at least semiprecious stones, but you've got to shovel through the crap to get to to them.

Not unusual, really.

The Vigilante's not too bad for what it does, mind, but most of the archetypes (for it and other classes) are pretty average at best.

>> No.46306136

>>46306097
PF plagiarized core 3e in its entirety and their setting is a theme park, refused to listen to playtesters, and thinks that stereotypes of trannies is "appealing". That's enough justification to slap their shit every time.

>> No.46306141

>>46306097
People are retarded and obviously love playing favorites

Also 3pp and pf devs are too fucking smug, y'all can fuck right off

>> No.46306155

>>46306122
No, but really. Paizo gives us something like Intrigue, and we're brandishing our porches and titforks. DSP gives us something like, ugh, Bloodforge, and we're like "well, it's awful, but Gareth didn't really want to write it anyway, so who cares, it's fine, the feats are cool at least, we love you guys, kyaa~ <3"

>> No.46306162

>>46306064
I want to have high hopes for Armour Master's Handbook after Weapon Master's Handbook had so much good stuff, but after Ultimate Intrigue I'm just not sure again.

>> No.46306198

>>46306097

It's less 'Not to one person's taste' and more 'Almost none of the feats are usable' (And those that are usable are spellcaster feats) combined with 'Most of the archtypes are more limited than the base class' (Like the Paladin one that is utter junk)

>>46306155

Part of that is that Paizo is a much bigger company with a much bigger base of writers and an actual 'Budget'. So we hold people who have a lot more to work with to higher standards.

>> No.46306205

>>46306064
After some thorough lookin', I'm giving vigilante 3.5 out of 5, the other archetypes 2.5, and the feats 1.

Making Psychometrist Avenger Batman is pretty fun, and is probably the closest we'll get to a 1pp artificer while remaining in the T3/T4 safe zone. Might like it as an Occultist archetype better, but wishes and fishes, y'know?

>> No.46306207

Am I the only one bugged at how seamless guise gives you a straight +20 from the start? I would have expected it to be a bit lower early.

If I roll a detective, inquisitor or the like I expect to have at least a decent chance at sniffing out people with secret identities. Sure, they are good at their job, but so am I.

Also, lol at Shield of Blades "If the vigilante uses power attack on every attack to make melee attacks." That is how power attack works unless UI specifically provided a feat that lets you turn it on and off between attacks.

BTW, the zealot vigilante seems pretty decent as a pseudo-inquisitor. Has anyone tried it out?

>> No.46306224

>>46306207
>Also, lol at Shield of Blades "If the vigilante uses power attack on every attack to make melee attacks." That is how power attack works unless UI specifically provided a feat that lets you turn it on and off between attacks.

They've been playing super conservative with the wording. Like how a lot of feats that involve weapon finesse right now prevent anything but empty hand/weapon and require you to be using str to damage.

>> No.46306231

>>46306198
>Part of that is that Paizo is a much bigger company with a much bigger base of writers and an actual 'Budget'. So we hold people who have a lot more to work with to higher standards.
Exactly. If I buy a $10 pizza from a local place and a $20 pizza from a chain, I will judge the shit out of the $20 pizza purely because of their budget.

Higher budget = higher standards. It's why any so-called "triple a" game I review has -5 (out of 10) to everything right off the bat, purely because of its budget, and even minor faults I'd normally forgive result in further penalties. Same with "hollywood blockbusters" or anything else that cost more to make than I will make in my lifetime.

>> No.46306235

>>46305966
The idea was that stances give different barrier jackets and devices frilly dresses and maybe weapons that both grow in strength with IL and give passive benefits for other stances of the discipline, so low-level stances are still somewhat viable at higher levels and when you need to switch from high-level "blast good" stance to low-level "not die" stance. Because I have no idea what other things "magical girl stance", or whole six stances if we are aiming at complete discipline, would do.

The issue is of course not overtuning benefits too much above existing content; somewhat pushing the definition of martial discipline; and not falling into draft versions of Flux or Current where you either can't do what was advertised and/or need specific class (which I don't really want to design) or whirlwind-long feat chain to function.
All that while maintaining competitive damage output.

>> No.46306254

>>46306198
>>46306231
Except that Paizo's operating off a skeleton crew at this point, isn't it?

>> No.46306261

>>46306207
>Am I the only one bugged at how seamless guise gives you a straight +20 from the start? I would have expected it to be a bit lower early.
The +20 is for casual observation, but they forego it if they use any vigilante talents while in social mode, which is pretty much the standard for "hero gets his identity spoiled" scenes anywhere you look.

>Also, lol at Shield of Blades "If the vigilante uses power attack on every attack to make melee attacks." That is how power attack works unless UI specifically provided a feat that lets you turn it on and off between attacks.
I think it's meant to be emphasis on "make melee attacks". In other words, it won't work if you're TWFing with a ranged weapon, because SWORD AND PISTOL TOO STRONG NERF NOW REEEE.

>> No.46306264

>>46306235
You absolutely, 100% need a low-level stance that lets you jump crazy high and stand on things that shouldn't be able to bear your weight. That's just basic mahou.

>> No.46306267

>>46305886
I don't see that as much of a problem. T3 is a pretty good place to be; strong enough to be good at its job but not strong enough to break the game in half and invalidate the rest of the party.

>> No.46306279

>>46306141
Damn straight

>> No.46306281

>>46306155
>Paizo gives us something like Intrigue
Paizo gives us full book of Rumormonger, Obfuscate Story, Steal the Story, etc. I.e. things that happen when one retard says "PF doesn't support roleplaying" and other retards, who happen to be in charge of PF, "support" it with the only method familiar to them. That is, mile-long feat chains that don't do shit but imply you can't do that shit they don't do without taking them first.

>> No.46306282

>>46306254
So? I'm not changing my standards just because your staff walked out the door. That's not my problem.

>> No.46306284

>>46306264
>>46306235

I think the core of it is working out, mechanically, what you want the style to do.

I'd lean towards 'High mobility switch hitter'. It's not the king of melee or ranged but it does both well and 99% of it's things work with both.

People can then tailor more towards melee or ranged with their second/third sets of powers.

>> No.46306285

>>46306261

Hm, if it is just for casual observation, I can dig it. If someone starts seriously snooping, though, that is another story. I agree vigilantes need a feature that makes them hard to uncover, but the mechanic strikes me as wonky.

The wording on shield of blades definitely seems to imply the author thought you can choose to turn power attack on and off within a turn, though. That was... BS. Still, a pretty decent talent.

>> No.46306287

>>46306254
Come again?

>> No.46306292

>>46306282
>we expect less of third party because paizo has a bunch more people and money
>i'm not going to expect less of paizo because they have less people and money
?????

>> No.46306303

>>46306292
Contradictions at their finest, holy shit

>> No.46306343

>>46306292
>>46306303
Not that anon, but Paizo is still the highest grossing TTRPG publisher out there. If they have a skeleton crew, it's because they're not bothering to hire new people despite the fact they have enough money for it.

>> No.46306356

>>46306343
here's your [citation needed]

>> No.46306371

>switchblade knife has been a martial weapon since Adventurer's Armory because reasons
>Paizo wants to start making all their generic thug NPCs use switchblades, but doesn't want to change things to actually make sense
>BEHOLD THIS BRAND NEW NEVER-BEFORE-SEEN WEAPON, THE SPRING BLADE

>> No.46306379

>>46305767
>You should go look for who this person is, because fuck if I'm telling you!

>> No.46306383

>>46306292
If you fuck over your staff then that's your problem. I mean, if my kid cuts his hand off with the meat cleaver I'm still going to expect him to clean his room.

>> No.46306390

>>46306343
>implying paizo is making more money than fucking HASBRO

>> No.46306396

>>46306371
They forgot that NPC humanoids are automatically proficient with anything they're described as wielding.

Make what you will of that.

>> No.46306397

>>46306371
>not knowing the difference between a switchblade and an assisted-open

>> No.46306404

>>46306390

I dunno, depends if you do it like Hasbro has forced WOTC to do and track 'D&D' separately from 'Cardboard crack'. It's part of what killed D&D 4e. The inability to go 'Look at how much money WOTC makes!' like 3.5

>> No.46306412

>>46306390
Hasbro spends as little money on D&D as it can, according to Hasbro, if you can't turn a Magic: The Gathering level profit, you're shit and only worth maintaining for the property rights

>> No.46306413

>>46306397
Doesn't a switchblade spring out straight from the handle as opposed to being on a hinge?

>> No.46306420

>>46306371

Eh, I am still snickering that the greatclub is a martial weapon, and that is from core. Meanwhile, we have gotten the exotic bo staff.

>> No.46306425

>>46306413
>knowing the difference between a switchblade and an assisted-open

>> No.46306431

>>46306420
What kind of crazy-ass standards does Paizo use to judge whether a weapon is simple, martial or exotic?

>> No.46306443

>>46306420
>thinking you don't need training to not get killed while swinging a 15-20 pound club
You're a moron.
>not realizing that the bo staff is exotic because the curvature of the midsection towards the ends drives weapons towards your hands when you use it to defend against them
No, wait, you're an idiot, sorry.

>> No.46306444

>>46306404
>>46306412

Clearly WOTC needs to start adding bags of cocaine to each players handbook to get sales up.

>> No.46306446

Without Paizo and their shit, 3pps like DSP wouldn't exist
So they have that to be thankful for

>> No.46306477

>>46306444
They just need to borrow some of Magic's addictive ink reserves.

>> No.46306485

>>46306425
Th-thanks senpai!

>> No.46306489

>>46306443
Why are weapon weights in DnD and its derivatives so rediculous?

>> No.46306531

The article on House Thrune is pretty fucking cool
Cool job fuckers

>> No.46306535

>>46306489
Because idiots think swords are heavy.

>> No.46306634

Dumping the classes from Companions of the Firmament because I think they're cool.

1/23

>> No.46306642

>>46306634
2/23

>> No.46306656

>>46306642
3/23

>> No.46306670

>>46306656
4/23

>> No.46306672

>>46306371
Hmm.. So wrist Launcher aren't actually crossbow? No Rapid Reload / Crossbow Mastery TWF Wrist Launcher..?

>> No.46306675

>>46305264
>Never play pathfinder
>Now it has a magical girl + animal mascot class
finally it might be worth playing.

>> No.46306678

>>46306670
5/23

>> No.46306683

>>46306672
I'd rule them to work. They're just small crossbows.

>> No.46306687

>>46306678
6/23

>> No.46306691

>>46306672
Given that they share proficiency with hand crossbows, I don't think it's a stretch to assume they function as hand crossbows for feats as well.

>> No.46306699

>>46306687
7/23

>> No.46306705

>>46306699
8/23

>> No.46306717

>>46306705
9/23

>> No.46306725

>>46306717
10/23
Monk rebuild

>> No.46306735

>>46306725
11/23

>> No.46306740

>>46306725

>2+ Int

...eww...

>> No.46306746

>>46306735
12/23

>> No.46306757

>>46306725
>2+ int skills

>> No.46306758

>>46306746
13/23

>> No.46306763

>>46306489
Ever picked up a greatclub? No? Then shut up.

6 feet of 6 inch thick hardwood with metal in it is not going to weigh the four or five pounds a sword is, and the sheer inertia of it is a threat to the person using it (overextension). There's more to fighting than 'just hit it'. Greatclub as a martial weapon makes perfect sense.

>> No.46306771

>>46306758
14/23

>>46306757
>>46306740
Fuck me, didn't notice until now. Wonder why they changed it?

>> No.46306788

>>46306771
15/23

>> No.46306800

>>46306788
16/23

>> No.46306811

>>46306800
17/23

>> No.46306824

>>46306800
18/23

Dragon rider cavalier archetype

>> No.46306837

>>46306824
19/23

>> No.46306847

>>46306837
20/23

>> No.46306862

>>46306725

You know? All in all it's a pretty decent alternate monk.

I mean, it's got a scaling ranged attack and a LOT of versatility. Including the ability to shit over enemy ranged guys hard as you level.

If you can use Vortexes with Unarmed Attack stuff, it's not bad at all.

>> No.46306871

>>46306847
Oh fuck, it's saying there's embedded files. Give me a bit to sort it out

>> No.46306894

What's your favorite class that you feel doesn't get enough attention from its developers?

>> No.46306898

>>46306871
21/23

>> No.46306908

>>46306898
22/23

>>46306894
Ranger

>> No.46306910

>>46306894
I would say Gunslinger.

But then, it's Gunslinger. Any attention Paizo gave it would be negative.

>> No.46306919

>>46306908
23/23

Cheers for the UI leaks a while back, let me know if you want anything else from CotF.

>> No.46306938

Is Comprehensive Education worth the trade for skilled?

>> No.46306962

>>46306938
RAW, yes.

RAI, if you're gonna have all the knowledge skills and won't really be hurting for skill ranks, sure why not.

>> No.46306968

>>46306938
Only if you don't have many knowledge skills in class already, even in which case you probably won't be that great at knowledge-monkeying.

>> No.46306985

>>46306064

It looks like it had some interesting things going on with skills, and a number of archetypes are interesting for more social/urban campaigns, if rather narrowly limited to them for stacking up against the baseline classes in many cases, but I am rather annoyed that while there's some nice skill things this is yet another mainline supplement where nearly all of the feats are dogshit and there are a lot of useful new spells.

The good feats list is already a lot smaller than the good spells list and that gap needs to SHRINK, not expand whenever fucking possible.

>> No.46306989

I just had the coolest death ever.
>LE antipaladin in a mostly Good-aligned party
>boss fight against a super-stealthy boss we can't find
>get sick of that shit, slaughter a party member with gory finish and spend a hero point to splatter the boss in blood that reflects light (DM allowed this)
>yay, he's visible
>the party promises me gruesome death, whatever, I don't care
>chase the boss
>take off 2/3rds of his HP in a single charge, almost stunned him (he only avoided stun via hero point usage - bosses also get them in our games)
>surrounded by a group of invisible rogues who proceed to net and sneak attack the fuck out of me
>after their turn, I'm at 1 hp
>can't cast anything because concentration checks are at impossible level
>out of touches of corruption so can't heal myself
>okay, RNGesus, I believe in you
>attack a nearby dude
>nat fucking 20
>attack another dude
>nat fucking 20
>attack a third dude
>19, still a crit, but he survived
>attack him again
>not a crit, but he goes down
>the only surviving enemy nearby uses magic missile to down me
>rolls to stabilise
>several nat 1's in a row
>...

This was the badassest death in my pathfinder experience so far.

>> No.46307057

>>46306989
And this, kids, is why you should always have a bag of floor or chalk.

>> No.46307061

>>46306968
It's for Warlock (or Cabalist) Vigilante.

>> No.46307070

>>46307057
Meh. Blood works just as well if you're evil.

>> No.46307071

Other than Wand and Staff... Are there any cool spell trigger magic item?

>> No.46307087

>>46306989

>> No.46307115

>>46306989
Jesus man just lift up a girl's dress for an old pervert

If Dragon Ball has taught me anything, it's that

>> No.46307166

>>46307057
>bag of floor
Marble or granite?

>> No.46307179

>>46307166
I'm a fan of linoleum.

>> No.46307200

>>46306989
And a bit of tidbits.
The antipaladin's name was called Valeria Krupt (yes, female).
The sacrificed party member was a fighter called Nayl.
And the boss was a dex-based unchained rogue/unchained monk multiclass called Zygmunt with stupidly high stealth mod enough to easily beat the perception of anyone in our party. (he survived since only Valeria chased him as the rest of the team were incompetent shits)

>> No.46307281

>mfw the 6'4 Ulfen Warder had to carry our 5'2 Qadiran Sorceress to her quarters slung over his shoulder because she was too engrossed in yelling at the ship's captain
>mfw she continued to yell at him over the Ulfen's shoulder

>> No.46307298

>tfw my wizard has his familiar ride on his shoulders and do all the talking and he pretends to be her servant master blaster style

>> No.46307308

>>46307166
What about ceramic tile?

>> No.46307313

>>46307308
Stop with your magical realm

>> No.46307320

>>46307281
Go on

>> No.46307362

I have a problem with my weekly game. The anticipation leading up to it and starting every session off each week makes my stomach feel fucking weird. Like, it completely rends itself when I'm thinking about playing. I can't stop being nervous, which makes my bowels loosen.

The session is making me literally want to shit myself. Even typing this is making me feel like shitting myself. How the fuck do I stop this?

>> No.46307363

This is how I barbarian.

>> No.46307368

>>46307362
Wear adult diapers.

>> No.46307374

>>46307362

Sounds like anxiety to me.

>> No.46307405

>>46307320

They argued like a married couple in her quarters on what is and isn't proper behavior around your superiors, since as a woman of the Qadiran upper-class, she never *had* superiors.

And then they fucked, but it's assumed they're doing that on a nightly basis anyway.

>> No.46307417

Quick: which school is best for a sorcerer to put her spell focus in?

>> No.46307425

>>46307362
protip: skeleton PCs dont have bowels

>> No.46307438

Has Inner Sea Faiths been dumped yet?

WE NEED YOU QANON!

>> No.46307451

>>46307405
Excellent

I'm going to need to redraw this one with Helen's updated design at some point

>> No.46307454

>>46307417
I'm personally a fan of evocation, but that's because I like blaster sorcerers.

If you're one of the races that can get bonuses to a specific school of spell (Kitstune with enchantment, for example) do that. If that's not an option, just go for whatever your mainstay in combat will be; Evocation, Enchantment, Necromancy, and Illusion all have decent in-combat lists that could use a Spell DC buff. Enchantment and illusion tend to be shut down by mindless things or those that are immune to mind-affecting, and necromancy tends to have niche effects, so both subjective and objective, my vote goes to evocation.

>> No.46307468

>>46307438
I got that in the mail a few days ago.
I never realized there was a NG god of swoleness.
I know who my next character is worshiping.

>> No.46307477

>>46307417
Conjuration

>> No.46307478

>>46307362
Take Improved Continence at level 3

>> No.46307529

>>46307438
IT'S NOT BEEN LEAKED ANYWHERE YET
QANON'S NOT A MIRACLE WORKER, JIM

>> No.46307564

>>46307468

Care to text spoil some highlights?

>> No.46307579

>>46306383
Never have children ever.

>> No.46307580

>>46307468
If you got it in the mail, don't you have the PDF too for free? Why not pass it in for cleaning and leaking?

>> No.46307600

>>46305418
When we stopped being ruled over by Tohofag.

>> No.46307602

>>46307529
I need the winning lottery numbers!

>> No.46307608

>>46307579
Just because you're maimed doesn't mean you're absolved of all responsibility.

>> No.46307611

>>46307468
Is the shit on Naderi any good?
I need my daily dose of bitches in wet clothing carrying lilies.

>> No.46307618

>>46305422
>>46305491
RegularHomu did everything wrong. An unclear number of times, in fact.

>> No.46307637

Rolled 43, 5, 2, 46, 2, 34, 1 = 133 (7d49)

HERE YOU GO ANON

>> No.46307640

>>46307608
Yes, but if your kid's lost a fucking hand, you should probably be worrying about more important things, like GETTING YOUR CHILD TO A DOCTOR, or HELPING THEM ADJUST TO LIFE WITH ONE HAND before you start judging them for not cleaning their room.

>> No.46307650

>>46307637
>>46307602
FORGOT YOUR (YOU)

>> No.46307659

>>46307640

How long has Paizo been operating on a skeleton crew?

>> No.46307778

>>46307659
As long as they have hated Necromancers

>> No.46307857

>>46306675
>finally it might be worth playing.
The class is bad. As in, mechanically so and flavour wise.

>> No.46307892

>>46307857
Come off your memes, man. It's still a T3 arcane gish. It's not bad, it just have a disappointing flavor. The mechanics are solid.

>> No.46307914

Hello /pfg/

A player has been asking me about spell creation, and I found myself unable to determine exactly what, mechanically speaking, separates divine spells and arcane spells.
I understand that the spellcasters are different (one cannot cast while wearing armor, the other relies on their connection to their deities to have access to their spell etc.), however, strictly considering spells, I found it hard to specify exactly what kind of effects were the monopoly of either divine or arcane spells.

Arcane spells can heal (infernal/celestial healing) or remove some conditions (remove curse) and even bring back the dead (wish), and divine spells can summon stuff, modify the environment and control elements and play blaster as well.

I guess my question is:
Are there effects that only either divine or arcane magic can create?

>> No.46307976

>>46307857
What's wrong with you people? Complaining about T1 and T2 being too powerful and T3 being too shit.

>> No.46307982

>>46305546
I'd replace necromancy with divination as an opposed school. Most of the divination spells you really wanna use are either out of combat spells (Scrying) or spells you want to be permanent (Arcane Sight), both of which make the 'need two spell slots' issue moot.

>> No.46308003

Why do wizards get to take the nice things from the arcanist class but sorcerers don't?

>> No.46308028

>>46307914
If you take into account wish/miracle spell replication? Nope. However, as you stated there's things that arcane does better than divine and the other way around.

>> No.46308040

>>46308003
Because wizards.

>> No.46308058

>>46307976
Welcome to /pfg/ where if you don't play a wizard you're a cuck for not picking the most powerful class in the game, but if you do play a wizard you're an autistic edgelord for picking the most powerful class in the game.

>> No.46308098

>>46308058
Don't even get started on thinking how these mongs bay like retarded hounds if you dare to pick up a sub-optimal option for flavor (GASP) reasons instead of pure mechanical benefit.

>> No.46308113

Any good damage buff spell that work with mystic bolt?

Divine Favor (via UMD) is one. Any other recommendation?

>> No.46308131

>>46305594
Could ask about Searing Spell metamagic from 3.5, but that's about it as far as I know.

>> No.46308165

My wizard character wants to ease the daily burdens of the peasa-- citizens who live in the neigbhourhood of his tower.

How would I go about creating animated brooms, mending needles or enhanced ploughing apparatuses?
Basically, Unseen Servant for every household.

Craft Constructs seem crazy expensive/overkill to do the job, but I don't know of any spells that would fit.

>> No.46308297

I think I asked something like this a while ago, but I can't be added to dig around for the responses.

How hard would it be to stat and balance a "swarm" of tiny-sized, flying conatructs? "Swarm" is a bit of an odd way to put it since it would only be two early on, but how would one avoid absolutely shattering action economy when having 2+ familiar-like creatures on the field at all times? Making certain actions require the entire group to perform would make sense, but then you kind of defeat the purpose of having the swarm to begin with. If you let them only perform certain actions individually, which ones? How would you balance it out? Is having a swarm of, for example, tiny longbow users going to mechanically invalidate other classes trying to do ranged combat?
Yes trying to do this as a companion creature replacement is a bad idea, but exploring stupid options seems to help my writer's block.

>> No.46308673

>>46308165
You're not thinking big enough.

If you're going to create magic items, create guardians for the village. It can handle any low level threats like wild animals, so it prevents aspiring adventurers from gaining experience.
Trade spellcasting services to a Druid in exchange for helping with crops, or use your own magic.
Create potions or elixirs to help with diseases.

Besides, you don't want your neighbors to have too much idle time. It would only breed discontent and posting on their local bulletin boards.

>> No.46308694

>>46306155
Look, nail me to the wall on Bloodforge if you like. The only things - the ONLY things - I hold myself blameless for are:

> The race concepts
> The art orders

Everything else, if you've got a problem, lemme know. Race mechanics? Nail me to the wall. Templates? Well, nail /Matt/ to the wall, but I'll pass it along. Feats, items, prestige classes, spells? Use my testicles for modern art made with nails and hammers. Matt & I wrote the shit and we're accountable for it. We just didn't get, by and large, to decide whether or not we really wanted to write, say, fucking Blinklings. That shit was out of our hands.

I don't expect to be treated to an easier standard. If I fuck up, I wanna know. I've appreciated /pfg/'s honesty and it's concerning to think that it might be less than complete, y'know?

Mornin'.

>> No.46308744

I wanted to make a character who, as a minor aspect of his personality, played on the "I'm 1/32nd Cherokee" trope. Obviously this character would claim some form of Shoanti ancestry, but would there be a specific Quah that would be closest to the Cherokee?

>> No.46308752

>>46308673
>sauce pic
>harem fantasy
It looked so decent.

My wizard isn't high enough yet to provide magical guardians and free magical items for the villagers, but I figured Unseen Servant-likes would be in his reach.

>> No.46308775

>>46308694
Sorry, Gareth. You've befriended them. They can't be completely honest because they're afraid you'll leave and they won't be able to gobble your knob anymore. It's like how you're not supposed to feed stray dogs, except with your dick.

>> No.46308883

>>46305384
It was a baneposting CLASS, not a discipline.

>> No.46308893

>>46308752
It also has netorare and mind break, if you're into that. A few people on /a/ didn't like the last couple of chapters.

Have you put any ranks into Alchemy? Alchemical items don't cost as much to make as true magical items, but they can still buy influence and loyalty.

>http://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment---final/goods-and-services/herbs-oils-other-substances

They might be more useful than Unseen Servant.

>> No.46308897

Regarding the Black Wind / Piercing Gale / Piercing Shot Tempest Gale maneuvers:

"You unleash a mighty shot that thunders through enemy lines, knocking aside any in its path. When you initiate this maneuver, you create a 50-foot line that deals 15d6 points of damage.[...]"

Does the line start at an adjacent square, or does it start at your initial target?

>> No.46308912

>>46308883
Nah, it was a discipline. "Planar Crash" or something like that.

>> No.46308941

>>46308883
>>46308912
It is too early in the day for you people to be driving me to drink.

>> No.46308976

>>46308893
Heh, not my cup of tea.

I'll look into alchemical items though, thanks for the idea!

Still feel like animated brooms would be good, be they only for my personal use ; I may not feel like casting Unseen Servant every day.

>> No.46309022

>>46308941
So hand it off to someone else.

>> No.46309031

>>46308941
Chug, chug, chug, CHUG, CHUG!

>> No.46309039

>>46309022
Would it hurt if he handed it off?

>> No.46309041

>>46308893
>sorcerer has come to demand tribute
>paladin order and adventurers guild squabble over who gets to kill him
>local dragons check if he is related to any of them and if not who gets to eat him

>> No.46309113

>>46309039
For you.

Honestly though Gareth needs to fucking chill with his hatred of other peoples' ideas. There are more people at DSP than him, so he can just fuck off.

>> No.46309141

>>46309113
This. Hey, >>46308941 listen, you're not the only person who does stuff Gareth. It's fine to dislike other ideas, but you need to calm your shit when it comes to the hate. Not everyone is a gibbering idiot who refuses to bow to your staggering, all-mighty intellect or something. Harbinger is not the end-all be-all of initiators.

>> No.46309161

>>46309141
It is pretty fun, though

Is gareth even the one doing the disciplines? I thought he was just in talks with the person doing them.

>> No.46309181

>>46309113
>>46309141
Evidently it's also too early in the day to go for the drinking jokes. I'ma go get some coffee and caffinate until I'm actually funny again.

>> No.46309218

>>46309181
>again

>> No.46309220

>>46309181
Have you considered the idea that you're not actually funny?

>> No.46309265

>>46309041
Read the manga. The only problem for him might be a dragon.

>> No.46309266

>>46309181
The yelling was never funny. It was just tolerated because you were otherwise a decent PR rep.

When the yelling happens at the same time as shitting on ideas you personally don't like, it's a problem.

>> No.46309281

>>46309266
ARE YOU IMPLYING YELLING IS BAD ANON? I OUGHTTA SOCK YOU ONE RIGHT IN THE KISSA

>> No.46309293

>>46309281
Only if you're yelling HERESY at the top of your lungs. We love you qanon.

>> No.46309315

>>46309281
There's a difference between obvious parody and legitimate spite. You're funny because you bring us gifts and are obviously enjoying your self-joking alter-ego. Gareth is simply annoying.

>> No.46309323

>>46309315
Do we actually like anyone on DSP or do we just tolerate them?

>> No.46309345

>>46309323
I like Forrest. She's the nicest and most rational of them.

I don't dislike Gareth, but he needs to find new material beyond "I HATE EVERYTHING" and "I'M AN ALCOHOLIC". I'm legitimately worried about the guy.

>> No.46309348

>>46309323
Form your own opinion, anon. For example, I like Gareth, regardless of what the rest of the hypocrites here post.

>> No.46309349

>>46309345
Mhmm, I'm worried he drinks too much.

>> No.46309355

>>46309323
>>46309345
Yeah I like Forrest too. She seems like the one who tends to look at things with an idea of "how do we do this" instead of "NO," from the times I talked with her in other chats.

>> No.46309396

>>46309323
Gareth's like our grumpy Alzheimers uncle. We loved him before, and we still love him now, but he's losing everything that made us love him and now it's just a love of habit

>> No.46309416

>>46309266
Noted.

In tangentially related news, I'm mulling over ideas for the Embarassment Princess comm that made it through, wanted to poll the audience here on a particular subject.

Sometimes with transformative archetypes you end up losing access to support - such as feats and items - that work with with the base class or with other archetypes. With the "claims allies" concept of Princess, that might be Claim feats, if I can't word out a feature to handle it properly. How important is access to those for folks playing a Harbi?

>> No.46309436

>>46309416
I planned on taking all the claim feats when I play my harbinger. The ac one for allies should be pretty easy to transfer, just have all claimed allies get +2 ac (I think +2 was the number.) For the speed one you'd get +5ft for every ally claimed. Or at least that's how I'd do it with little effort or thought put in.

>> No.46309440

>>46309345
>>46309355
I thought Forrest was a dude tho, when did he become a woman

>> No.46309451

>>46309440
Fucking forever ago dude, keep the hell up. Forrest is our back-up princess now, in case the QAnon line fails to produce an heir.

>> No.46309457

>>46309440
Forrest is Forrest and that's all that matters.

>> No.46309468

>>46309440
Forrest quietly came out as trans on Giantitp and someone pointed it out here during one of those discussions on traps.

>> No.46309472

>>46309436
Individual feats getting swapped wouldn't be an issue except in terms of page space (which, I'm learning lately, is actually a pretty big issue), but what about ones like Dark Presence? Malevolence? In general, shifting from 'being Claimed is bad' to 'being Claimed is good' is gonna be tricky when it comes to the secondary content.

>> No.46309477

There is actually some schmuck on the Paizo forums actually trying to say the Investigator is gimped in combat...

>> No.46309480

>>46309323

I'm going to be brutally honest with you and give my conclusion based on seeing how they post here, and how the rest of the board seems to interact with them.

No, we tolerate them the same way we tolerate people who go on about fucking Greta or who has the best bust among the NPCs (it's Arueshalae, btw). They're idle amusements that make for good (you) bait and some mindless fun, but otherwise they're just white noise or a punching bag for people upset over their continued bungling of PoW:E.

>>46309451
>Forrest is our back-up princess now, in case the QAnon line fails to produce an heir.

Forrest can't produce heirs because Forrest lacks a functioning vagina, and since QANON is confirmed turbo-lesbian I don't think we're getting anything out of either of them.

>> No.46309499

>>46309323
See >>46309348.

We are not a uniform monolith, or at least we shouldn't try to be one. I think Gareth's okay because he's generally pretty reasonable and open to discussion about good and bad points of DSP material, alongside being helpful when folks have questions about it. He's not perfect, but neither is anyone else and I don't expect him to be. He also does a good job of being civil and responsive too, which earns any person a lot of points in my book.

Sometimes he's a stick in the mud about design things but it's not to the point where I'd rather him not be in /pfg/ or be DSP's official PR dude. If it were someone else, I think the process would repeat with them- you can't be a public figure without people starting to get annoyed with you.

>>46309396
I don't even follow what you're talking about. He's losing everything we use to love him for? I don't want to sound like I'm putting words in your mouth, but do you mean he's made a few design choices that you personally might disagree with? If not, what are you getting at?

>> No.46309501

>>46309477
It kinda is at lower levels.

I like the class, in that you need to pick between being a mega-skill-master and a decent-combat-doer.

you don't get both.

>> No.46309514

>>46309472
Malevolence could be a +2 to cmb and skills, though that seems to outclass the bard for a few levels. I can't imagine how to get dark presence to work. Though, honestly I forgot both of those existed so I'm probably going to skip them on my harbinger. They feel... less necessary to me?

>> No.46309530

>>46309480
Forrest may have a functioning penis, though, if she's not actually gone through surgery yet. In that case, we might be able to kill two birds with one stone. Or should that be fill one bird with two stones?

>>46309499
I mean that he used to be legitimately funny and a great guy to pal around with here, but now his posts are either "BUY THIS", "I HATE YOU", "I DRINK", or a combination therein.

>> No.46309537

>>46309477
Before level 4? Yeah, the Investigator has a hard time keeping up and surviving. After that though, it's much smoother sailing.

>> No.46309545

>>46309501

I'll not argue it's weak at low levels, but after 5 it's the best class I've ever played.

>> No.46309550

>>46309530
>I mean that he used to be legitimately funny and a great guy to pal around with here, but now his posts are either "BUY THIS", "I HATE YOU", "I DRINK", or a combination therein.

That's a good point.

Gareth, are you okay, man? Do you need a break?

>> No.46309560

>>46309530
> I mean that he used to be legitimately funny and a great guy to pal around with here, but now his posts are either "BUY THIS", "I HATE YOU", "I DRINK", or a combination therein.

...Welp.

It's been a long winter. And you're not the only one to have pointed this kinda thing out. For what little it's worth, you've my apologies. I'm...gonna be working on that.

>> No.46309565

>>46309480
>since QANON is confirmed turbo-lesbian
G-GOTTA GAY FAST?

>> No.46309583

>>46309416
>>46309436
>>46309472
>>46309514

I would, personally, rather see access to obviously-negative claim feats restricted rather than have the feats rewritten, for the following reasons:

1) it seems to me that making them benefit allies rather than penalize enemies would make them much stronger (leading to a possible nerf, leading to endless fucking bitching, looking at you, guy who keeps saying PoW stuff got nerfed just because he doesn't like it) or Tomokoharbi being a massive straight upgrade to regular harbi.

2) Page space.

Of course, there's the issue of what you'd replace it with that doesn't take up a lot of page space, but...

>> No.46309586

>>46309560

But Gareth... It's been the warmest winter on record.

>> No.46309597

>>46309586
And snow is magical, so his winter had no magic.

>> No.46309618

>>46309545
why?

>> No.46309623

Creating a set of houserules, and want some input.

> Use Vigor Points and Wound Points. VP = (lvl+1) x (av. dice rounded up). WP = 5+Con. Mod.
> Being at Half VP means Fatigued. Being quarter VP means Exhausted. Being 0 VP means helpless (but conscious).
> VP recovery per minute of rest. Roll Fort Save - ACP + 1 per minute past the first, DC 15. Success means you recover (level) VP.
> Rage / Bard. Perf. now consumes (5+ACP- Con / Cha mod.) VP / turn. Does not make fatigued / exhausted.
> Pounce now allows 1 attack per weapon wielded / natural attack / extremity. For example, a barbarian/monk with 3 base attacks per round could theoretically charge/flurry and give 2 punches, a kick and a headbutt, but AM BARBARIAN only get one Lance attack.
> Bad saves are Good Save Value -2. Average BaB Progression is now Good BaB-1. Bad BaB progression is now Good BaB-2. A Rogue 1 / Wizard 2 character has BaB 0. A Rogue 2 / Wizard 3 has BaB 2.
> Divine Grace now takes whichever is best between reg. stat and charisma. Paladin can spend (level) VP before the roll to use both for a single save.
> Toughness adds (level+1) VP and 1 WP. Can be taken thrice.
> Bloodline/Domain Powers and similar abilities have a cost in VP instead of a maximum number of use per day. This cost is dependent on the level at which it is acquired.
> Armor is (armor bonus x 10%) damage removed from an attack. Armor take that damage - it's own DR.
> Take 10 can be used at ANY TIME, but is now replaced with "roll 2d10" or even "roll 3d6+1". The 3d6+1 can never score a natural 20. The minimum dice result is always a miss.
> Power Attack, Deadly Aim and Combat Expertise can be used by those without the proper feats. Penalty to hit is doubled.
> Power Attack, Deadly Aim and Combat Expertise can be used at lower than maximum value (Fighter 4 can Power Attack for -1 / +2 instead of being forced for -2 / +4).
> Cont.

>> No.46309646

>>46309586
>>46309597
I don't particularly wanna blog post on the subject. It's been long for reasons only partially related to the weather (the winter being warm reminded me entirely too much of Kansas).

>>46309583
These are also concerns I have. In general I tend to lean towards 'you knew what you were getting into when you picked a transformative archetype' but I'm not sure how much the players/audience agrees with that stance. Being the outsider in the situation, I'm askin'. Y'know?

>> No.46309647

>>46309623
I uh, I hate to say it, but have you considered not playing Pathfinder? This is a pretty substantial list of houserules.

>> No.46309650

>>46309597
Gareth needs magic! STAT

>> No.46309665

>>46309623
...good god why? What problem are you trying to fix?

>> No.46309668

>>46309623
My eyes completely glazed over reading that, sorry!
>>46309650
Coffee?

>> No.46309690

>>46309623
> Area spells require a ranged attack roll. Concealment doesn't apply, no range increment either. Total concealment gives a -5 to the roll. Cover applies. AC = 8 + (2 x Spell Level). Miss cause d3 scatter rolls. Miss by margin of 5 cause 2d3 scatter rolls. Save DCs and other variables unaffected.

>> No.46309691

>>46309623
>basically unreadable VP/WP rules
>nerfs pounce
>indirectly nerfs full BAB
>nerfs Divine Grace
>more randomness instead of taking 10
>nerfs power attack

>> No.46309708

>>46306126
Does the vigilante fall short of being the best at what it does, bub?

>> No.46309711

>>46309618

It's more than capable at combat, and unlike most martials, I could actually contribute mechanically through being a skill monkey, and could use diplomacy or intimidate to weigh in on RP situations.

Most characters I play tend to just hit things since martials have such poor skill selection they rely on everyone else. But with the investigator I could rely on myself.

>> No.46309719

>>46309416
I don't think a Harbinger without claim feats is that much of a problem to me - I haven't played one myself but I've definitely given the class a number of hard looks thinking of playing it sometime.

In a way I think if they really wanted claims they'd go Crimson Countess instead. Harbinger feels slightly tight on feats and the claim ones aren't super necessary to the build.
Alternately make the claim feats function as if the number of things you have claimed is equal to the number of enemies threatened by or threatening claimed allies.

>> No.46309721

>>46309690
>ranged attack rolls
>but buffed wizard BAB, making it trivial
>decided friendly fire was funny

pls no more

>> No.46309738

>>46309530
I'm not really sure his style of posting ever really changed that much. It's more likely that people just started finding it stale. Sorta like when people use to badger him about how he needed to add more images to his folders for showing with his posts.

Honestly though, that happens with everyone because people normally have a style they stick to and they don't just constantly mix it up. If you get some new joke or phrase you start tossing around, you're "forcing a meme" and yelled at. It's not apparent with regular anons because, well, they're anon, so no one notices a particular anon's consistent style... But even now you still have people who every now and then try to pick out some random anon as Gareth (often incorrectly) because that anon's post happens to be reminiscent of Gareth's style. Basically, what I'm trying to say is that if it's seeming like Gareth is a broken record, that's only because people normally talk about the same stuff repeatedly and you just don't notice it when they don't have a nametag.

Anyway, on an entirely unrelated tangent, I'm struggling to draw decent mountains on a map I'm making. How am I suppose to make them not stand out all weird-like from the rest of the drawing, or be able to draw things that are on the mountains without the perspective getting all fucked up?

>> No.46309740

>>46309719
> Alternately make the claim feats function as if the number of things you have claimed is equal to the number of enemies threatened by or threatening claimed allies.

...That's...that's an interesting idea...

>> No.46309767

>>46309618
Not that guy, but natural-attack-build investigator with polymorph extracts is the closest I've gotten to the wild-shaping ranger of my dreams. Sweet, sweet +4 atk/dmg from studied combat on top of 4+ natural weapons, flight, and mutagen to keep my Str matching the barbarian's.

>> No.46309768

>>46309650
Who is this semen demon?
And what is that other thing with the long black ears?

>> No.46309796

>>46309738
I dunno man, I mean.. Forrest's been here almost as long, and we're largely not sick of Forrest. Hell, QANON has an *intentionally annoying* posting style and we still love her more than a year later. Gareth is turning grating and I think he needs a goddamn girlfriend. Volunteers?

>> No.46309797

Come on now, anons. I think Gareth needs a hug. Bring it in big guy!

>> No.46309820

>>46309796
>Gareth is turning grating and I think he needs a goddamn girlfriend. Volunteers?

>> No.46309830

>>46309796
Forrest doesn't post nearly as much lately. I think we scared her off with the response to her appearance.

>> No.46309834

>>46309711
>martial
>6th level alchemist casting
huh?

I mean I like the class too, but don't go comparing it to non-casting classes.

>>46309767
That is an awesome build idea.

>>46309820
Honestly: just don't drink when posting on the internet. Drinking alone can get to you.

>> No.46309841

What are some ways for my Warder to lock down enemies better?
I've already got Guard's Glare, and I'm building for Intimidate with Enforcer, so that's basically always on everyone. Thing is, the DC isn't particularly hard to make, so enemies get to waddle around sometimes. I need a way to stop people's movement actions when I AoO them, or ways to create ultra-hardcore-difficult terrain in my threatened area.
Suggestions please?

>> No.46309849

>>46309820
w-well, if anon is asking...

>> No.46309861

>>46309647
> I uh, I hate to say it, but have you considered not playing Pathfinder? This is a pretty substantial list of houserules.
I have. Some players won't.

>>46309665
> ..good god why? What problem are you trying to fix?
Progression of saves makes high level threats far too dangerous, especially to classes with 1 good save.

Touch Attacks are completely ridiculous.

Rage is underpowered compared to other, similar abilities.

Pounce was left unclear by Paizo on purpose.

I, myself, always tried to mix 2 paladin levels in most builds I had because Divine Grace is the second best counter to low saves, and the best one if only for a dip / already have decent charisma.

Hit points abstraction is garbage. So is natural healing. Vigor / Wound seems better from a narrative standpoint.

Armor is garbage unless min-maxed. BaB to AC, as a dodge bonus allows to keep up more easily. Plus, it makes the armor specialty of the fighter much more relevant.

The d20 is fickle. I want it to have greater risks / gains as an option. 3d6+1 gives a lot more stable results. Shows well the difference between recklessness and carefulness.

Area spell being cast exactly at the right place 100% of the time is ridiculous. I want surgically placed fireballs / confusion spells to be risky. The more powerful the spell, the harder it is to place with a surgeon's precision.

>> No.46309880

>>46309820
Gareth and Forrest, sitting in a tree
W R I T I N G
First comes draft, then comes print
Then comes romance, there's more than a hint

>> No.46309882

>>46309834

I mean martial as in melee focused. My last chars were a battle oracle of gorum, and an oradin. The investigator is like the sky opening up and lifting me away into freedom in comparison.

>> No.46309888

>>46309721
> Trivial.
> Wizard without maxed Dexterity need at least an 8 on a d20.
> Wizards being able to fail. At all.

>> No.46309889

What are the best spheres to combine nature with (yes, yes I know nature sucks, but I'm making a character who specializes in geomancy and feng shui so it's appropriate)? I'm brand new to spheres and I'm terrified everything I'm taking is a trap option ;_;

>> No.46309890

>>46309861
>I have. Some players won't.
No wonder you hate your players so much.

>> No.46309898

>>46309834
Partly why I refrain from drinking a majority of the time, personally. If I have no one to drink with and have fun doing it, then it can be a rather dangerous slope.

>> No.46309899

>>46309880

As someone who knows both of them personally, not even a little chance.

Gareth's called their relationship "sibling-tier" and Forrest likes girls.

>> No.46309912

>>46309880

>Implying a presumably heterosexual man would want to be romantic with a Trans* woman

>> No.46309916

>>46309841
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/stand-still-combat---final

>> No.46309920

>>46309912

Gareth's bi.

>> No.46309921

>>46309889
Nature is fine.
Get Spellcrafting (the feat) and suck your GM off to let you use it.
Make your own nature spells.
If that's not an option, go into Creation and Life, and play it as a utility healer character.

>> No.46309929

>>46309890
> No wonder you hate your players so much.
Wut? This is an immense buff to martials and a debuff to casters which is to counter the game's obvious imbalance.

How is this hate?

>> No.46309940

>>46309912
>Implying that any two people can make a decent couple simply because their genitals/sexual identities fit together

>> No.46309942

Is there ANY way to get Wizard discoveries on a non-wizard without multiclassing?

>> No.46309949

>>46309912
I bat for both teams, anon. Even if I didn't, why should it matter?

I'm gonna email the customer that provided the Princess comm. If s/he's okay with it, you'll likely be updated live as I tinker with ideas for it. If someone in internal has better ideas (a distinct possibility), I'll pass it off. The concept intrigues me, though.

>> No.46309957

>>46309929
It's actually a fairly large nerf to martials; in order to function, you need the ability to full attack. The pounce nerfs mean that you MUST be unarmed or TWF to competently fight in many cases, or ranged.

>> No.46309963

>>46309921
w-what if I don't want to fellate my GM

>> No.46309968

>>46309912
Gareth's a double, man. Just because you have kids doesn't mean you don't like a cock sometimes.

>> No.46309970

>>46309929
It's a pile of convoluted garbage and half measures. It gives the impression of rebalancing the martial-caster divide while not actually solving anything. It's rules for rules sake and even better ivory tower design that Paizo could dare dream of. It is pure and adulterated hate for anybody subjected to the ruleset.

>> No.46309971

>>46309899
>QANON is confirmed turbo-lesbian
>Forrest likes girls
You don't say...

>> No.46309976

>>46309963
Then say goodbye to your custom spells, fuckface.
That said, I didn't have to blow mine, but that's mostly because he's not a douchebag like most GMs.

>> No.46309980

>>46305264
Why would they give the magical girl class the unchained summoner spell list? That's just retarded. I could see Magus or Witch or Bard very easily, but Unchained Summoner? Bah.

>> No.46309994

>>46309980
It's because the mahou shoujou is supposed to be a pet class. They buff their improved familiar and are supposed to wreck face with it.

>> No.46309995

What is the quickest way I could bully my teammates?

I want maximum butthurt, the kind that puts them off from the system and leaves scars.

Divination Wizard?

>> No.46310014

>>46309995
How about you try being excellent to the other players instead of being rude?

>> No.46310024

>>46309980
Because it's very clearly just the summoner vigilante archetype, which they stuck the name "Magical Child" on because they heard that's what's hip with the youths these days?

I mean, come on, "Magical Child"? That's literally the punchline of an old-man-doesn't-understand-anime joke.

>> No.46310025

>>46309888
>a wizard is always casting his highest-level spell
>a wizard can't buff his to-hit rolls with anything but dexterity
>a wizard, even if he fails, will first have to stop and roll multiple dice to figure out what happened
>then because he's rolling multiple scatters, regression to the mean will most likely put the spell in almost the exact same place
>if it was remotely likely to happen and have serious consequences (if you wanted things to be left up to chance, why did you play a wizard?) you could just cast something else

If you want to misery your players out of playing Pathfinder, why not just make them go through Shattered Star?

>> No.46310034

>>46309995
Play a Wizard.
Optimize it really hard.
Be as friendly and nice as you can, but bend the whole campaign over your knee and spank it's ass so hard that Gygax himself feels it in whatever layer of hell he's in.

>> No.46310036

>>46310024
I'm pretty sure it's "Magical Girl with the gender filed off" actually. What would you call it? Magical Kid? Magical Youngster?

>> No.46310045

Which classes work best for Androids?

>> No.46310046

>>46309957
>It's actually a fairly large nerf to martials; in order to function, you need the ability to full attack.
Yeah, that's another problem I am trying to fix. Instant-kills-or-death shouldn't be the norm. Besides, "Martials" is a little larger than "Ragelancepounces".

This is why monsters can be killed without removing all HP (removing Wound Points), and regular damage cause fatigue. It is also why Armor as %DR is used.

Finally, it is also why people can recover their Vigor points naturally within minutes. This reduces attrition.

>> No.46310050

>>46309976
But I'm not a fuckface, that's the point.

Seriously, though, I might do that if we need a dedicated healer. I'm currently dipping destruction for an easy all-day thing to do with my turns when I don't have access to the terrain for my geomancing and fallen fey for thematics, but I'm having trouble making room for anything else because Nature requires so much investment. Thanks for the suggestions!

>> No.46310051

Does a Warder have any way to add his INT bonus to CMD/CMB? We're in a swamp and shit keeps fucking grappling me. That +4 would really help.

>> No.46310058

>>46307914
>what, mechanically speaking, separates divine spells and arcane spells

Nothing.

>> No.46310062

>>46310045
+dex, int -cha could work for magus, any int spell caster, probably investigator and alchemist as well. Android could fit a bunch of classes except spontaneous casters.

>> No.46310066

>>46310014

No, I want to destroy something beautiful and leave the pieces as a reminder to those who witnessed it.

>>46310034

What's the best way to optimize a wizard? I want to focus on being the type that locks down enemy encounters (or avoids them entirely) so I deny the martials even the luxury of move+attack.

>> No.46310071

>>46310058
Arcane spell failure.

>> No.46310072

>>46310051
Multiclass as a Wizard for one level, take the Knowledge Is Power arcane discovery.

>> No.46310075

>>46310036
Sure, but that in itself is just another indication of Paizo not even knowing what it was that people were hoping for. It'd be like making a monk archetype called "Super Monkeyperson" or sticking "no Jutsu" onto the names of every ninja trick.

>> No.46310079

Is the Pathminder anon here? Any reasons why magus and shooty magus aren't in?

>> No.46310082

>>46310050
Bear with it until you get to the big boy leagues, if that ever happens.
My Incanter has Volcano and Earthquake and it's GRRRRRRRRRRRRREAT.

>> No.46310106

>>46310066

Remember to get a summoner cohort.

>> No.46310117

>>46307914
Not after a million years of splatbooks, not really. Obviously they were thematically separate originally - look at the CRB spells, or just go back and read old D&D editions. The constant hunger that led to this power creep is just evidence that 3.X players are generally purgeable.

>> No.46310144

>>46310045
Fighter so you can die quickly and get back to playing a real race like wayangs.

>> No.46310152

>>46310025
>a wizard is always casting his highest-level spell
That's actually kind of the point. With better "bad saves", the chance of his less powerful spells being able to end encounters instantly is greatly reduced.

>a wizard can't buff his to-hit rolls with anything but dexterity
Well, magic weapons don't apply, True Strike takes additional resources and time, and circumstances, like the first people in a crowd, give cover penalties. So please, enlighten me.

>then because he's rolling multiple scatters, regression to the mean will most likely put the spell in almost the exact same place
That is a risk. Lack of control + luck. But I want the wizard to at least hesitate instead of knowing he always got a surgeon's precision.

>if it was remotely likely to happen and have serious consequences (if you wanted things to be left up to chance, why did you play a wizard?) you could just cast something else
That's the point.

> If you want to misery your players out of playing Pathfinder, why not just make them go through Shattered Star?
That's not the point. I want players around the table to THINK instead of just blasting away with spells. I want Sundering a Weapon / Armor to be viable strategies instead of only ragelancepouncing.

I want a game's obvious flaws to be lessened.

>> No.46310156

>>46308165
Research a higher level version.

3.5's Mass Unseen Servant is a level 4 spell that creates one servant per level and has a duration of an hour per level.

>> No.46310174

>>46310156
Collar of Perpetual Attendance can get you plenty of servants for only 2k gold.

http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/fools/20030401c

>> No.46310177

>>46310156
I did not think of that, thanks!

>> No.46310191

>>46310144

Wayangs are shit in the same way goblins are shit.

At least Androids have the cool techno-thing going for them.

>> No.46310226

What's with the sudden hate for Gareth?
He's always been alright in my book, even including the supposedly annoying parts.
I mean, I know this is fuckin' 4chan and we're all degenerates that hate life, but I find it kind of strange how there's posts saying he's an annoying shit-encrusted niggerloving downie or whatever. Don't remember these opinions coming out before, really. Not that I'm here for every general, I guess, but still.

>> No.46310258

>>46310226
It's been a slow downhill spiral of being annoyed at him vocally hating everything he happens to dislike, and throwing his weight around about it regarding DSP's ability to make stuff.

>> No.46310259

>>46310226

Like Downtime God he just overstayed his welcome, the same thing will happen to QANON eventually.

Plus he's gone from whimsical and amusing to a bitter drunk.

>> No.46310270

>>46310259
He's always been a bitter drunk, though, hasn't he?

>> No.46310271

>>46310226
It popular to hate that which is popular, which is DSP now that PoW:E came out, and the haters have decided to come out of the woodwork.

>> No.46310286

Gareth, you'll always be my favorite.

>> No.46310338

>>46310144
Rude.

>> No.46310359

>>46308893

>> No.46310368

>>46306989
>>get sick of that shit, slaughter a party member
That Guy detected.

>> No.46310384

>>46310368
It was okay, since that party member was a DMPC.

>> No.46310417

>>46310025

I have often heard Shattered Star is bad, but what exactly is so bad about it?

>> No.46310431

>>46310226
It may be the synic that is me, but I think a large part of the Gareth hate might be because /pfg/ has run out on people/"characters" they normally antagonize. I mean hell, BUILDPOSTER is floating around and no one is frothing at the mouth and 2hu went and fucked off somewhere else. The threads seem to need some sort of target for their vitriol, a catalyst for everyone's dismay and frustration at life and the problems in our shitty choice of escapism (Pathfinder being that shitty choice); and I don't think SKR or JJ said anything stupid recently to redirect /pfg/'s ever present ire.

>> No.46310435

>>46309691
>basically unreadable VP/WP rules
Mostly Paizo's Ultimate Combat Rules, so no offense taken.

> nerfs pounce
Yes.

> indirectly nerfs full BAB
And multiclass diping, mind you.

> nerfs Divine Grace
Once again, that was the purpose.

> more randomness instead of taking 10
You're actually making a point. The alternate dice rolls will not replace the regular use of take 10. But, as an option, 3d6+1 does beat taking 10 in my humble opinion.

> nerfs power attack
How? Not only is there safer dice rolls when you have an enemy whose AC's lower than average, but one has more flexibility with it. It also can literally be used as per the Core Rulebook, unaltered.

>> No.46310448

>>46307313
Sorry for so long to respond, but I honestly forgot that was a thing

>> No.46310451

>>46310417
You gon' get Sorshen'd.

>> No.46310452

>>46309949
How long does each commission take, roughly?

I should have gone to bed three hours ago but I'm really interested in seeing the Princess mechanics happen well

>> No.46310465

>>46310417

I got to the end of book 2 of Shattered Star. I enjoyed it a lot?

>> No.46310480

>>46310452
> DSP
> Deadlines

I'm not gonna insult you by lying to you, anon. They'll be done when they done.

>> No.46310486

>>46310435
Leave
Never play PF again

>> No.46310487

>>46307417
Transmutation

>> No.46310497

>>46310417

Do you like dealing with the Thassilonians?

Do you think 18 levels of dungeon crawl is fun?

Do you like the idea of having no plot, an your only reason to adventure is to adventure?

If you've said yes to any of these, then you'll love Shattered Star!

>> No.46310503

>>46307778
underrated post

>> No.46310504

So... I've never built a bard before. How does one go about building one?

>> No.46310519

>>46307281
>>46307405

Did you ERP it out?

>> No.46310524

>>46310480
Oh, I wasn't worried it would take too long.
I was worried it would be the sort of thing you manage to hammer out in half a day fueled by alcohol and I'd miss it all.

Carry on.

>> No.46310553

>>46310524
Oh, no worries anon. Half a day of alcoholic writing is followed by quite a bit of editing. I believe the saying goes, "Write drunk, edit sober."

No, really. Though damn if I can tell you where I heard it.

...I have had poor role models.

>> No.46310558

>>46310025
>>46310417
>>46310497
To my knowledge, the main issue with Shattered Star is the immensity of the railroading.

It's the one AP where they considered trying to push membership in the in-setting Pathfinder Society as the default state for all PCs, and it completely blew up in their faces because the PFS is a shit-tier failure of an organization that nobody in their right minds would trust or take orders from.

>> No.46310572

>>46310504

High charisma, high intelligence.

Assume you will never stab a soul in combat.

Remember to keep Google on standby to be the big-dick lore master.

Your role is to inspire courage and do all the grunt work out-of-combat. The perk of this is you wind up getting the bulk of RP and thus the highest potential for a waifu.

>> No.46310574

>>46310504
Depends, what kind of Bard do you want? Bard's can be built multiple different ways, and the Archetypes also alter it immensely.

Though, your best bet for most of them is to start investing in Cha and Dex

>> No.46310595

>>46310558

> PFS is a shit-tier failure of an organization that nobody in their right minds would trust or take orders from.

So, /pfg/, how many of your PCs have actually worked for PFS?

>> No.46310607

>>46310558
Oh, come now, they can't be /that/ bad.


Right?

>> No.46310610

>>46310435
>But, as an option, 3d6+1 does beat taking 10 in my humble opinion.
Protip: Most of the time, especially when you'd want to take a 10, there's no difference between rolling a 10 and rolling a 20. The vast majority of the checks in PF are binary pass/fail, so there's literally no point in adding randomness to something you'd automatically succeed without any randomness at all.

>> No.46310613

>>46310558

Can someone explain to me how PFS and Absalom utterly failed as their role of "canon main organization?" They released RotRL, and then CotCT, but after that apparently Absalom and PFS failed in its purpose?

Did they like, do surveys or something?

>> No.46310622

>>46310572
Are there any +CHA, +INT races? I think I recall a variant Aasimar heritage that gets it but I don't remember which one.

>> No.46310637

>>46310595
>>46310607

PFS is a CN/Evil organization that is officially Neutral or even Good while doing fucking nothing interesting beyond stealing artifacts from lawful owners.

They're one of the driest, most boring organizations you'll ever read about.

>> No.46310647

>>46310486
> Never play PF again
As much as I'd like to, I can't.

> Leave
The thing is, I won't. I am not even shitposting. Is any point I raised in >>46309861 false?

I get it: You hate the game and wish its imbalances to be exacerbated to the point it drives people away and force them to play better games. Caster supremacy never was about defending the casters but was a mean to attack the game itself.

But I find myself with an easier time to convince my players to accept a bunch of houserules instead of learning a new system. Even a simple one. And since I have GMed games of Shadowrun, this is not daunting at all for me.

So I am not leaving. Feel free not to reply to my posts. If the entirety of /pfg/ feels as you do and ignore me, eventually I'll tire and move on, possibly trying other venues.

But if someone reads my plight and actually wishes to give me actual feedback on how to improve on these, I'm all ears.

>> No.46310653

>>46310622

An alternate racial for Changelings gives you + Int/Cha,

>> No.46310656

>>46310045
Reactor Knight.

It's like two psychodriver androids having sex.

>> No.46310663

Were there any HUGE changes for PoW:E from the playtest docs? I just got the book and I don't have the time to scour the whole thing right now. Checking the maneuvers my characters have, I've noticed only that Unbroken Stride now states you don't need to use your hands to wall climb, and that Terrifying Strike was renamed to Terrifying Blow. Is there anything really important I need to be aware of? I mean, I'll find out within the week if you don't tell me, but it'd be nice if you did.

>> No.46310665

>>46310610
I agree. That is why I retracted this alteration. Taking 10 will be another option

>> No.46310672

>>46310647
Slowly stack more and more houserules onto the precarious heap, until they're playing 5e without even noticing.

>> No.46310677

Who /wrist launcher/ here

>> No.46310691

>>46310637
>PFS
>CE

I'm gonna want some citations on that because wow okay that's spooky.

>> No.46310726

>>46310663
The playtest docs are a few /months/ out of date at this point. Animus math got rebalanced, a few discs got additional maneuvers added to help correct for progressions, Tempest Gale & Piercing Thunder got a QoL buff added to their stances, and the Traditions had their mechanical benefits rebalanced, off the top of my head. Anon and/or Forrest can tell you more.

>> No.46310731

>>46310691

I'm fairly sure there are some modules that involve the party breaking into a house to steal an artifact from the family living there.

>> No.46310750

>>46310726
>Tempest Gale & Piercing Thunder got a QoL buff

I thought they got nerfed.

>> No.46310768

>>46310497
>>46310558
>not having a plot, and your only reason to adventure is to adventure, hardcore railroading and having to deal with the shit-tier PFS
>mfw my alchemist's entire reason for adventuring is "his mom kicked him out of the basement"
>mfw all he's got left that excites him is the promise of finding out the deal with all these ancient ruins, and using any money he makes from the ventures to make his "daughter"'s life better
>mfw not giving a shit about the integrity of the PFS because none of us actually care too deeply about it below surface lore for the time being, and all I want is to find out what the deal with these shards is

Probably the perfect AP for this character, then. It's not been a particularly an amazing campaign, but even if it's slow it's still pretty fun as a first pathfinder experience. I still kind of hope the GM either lets us buck the rails further down the line, or the GM gets back in the mood to run a second 1-on-1 campaign again.

>> No.46310773

>>46310672
My houserules don't go into that direction.

D&D 5e don't have replacement for d20, still have surgically placed fireballs, still work with hit points only, have 6 different kinds of saves, and DR only comes from rage / feats.

>> No.46310777

>>46310750
"Added to their stances."

PT didn't change much at all from the playtest. Tempest Gale got buffed in a couple places.

People are whining because they expected major buffs and they didn't happen.

>> No.46310786

>>46310750
They're considered awful because you can just full attack to kill the enemy instead. Which you could always do even before PoW. I find Tempest Gale fun, because it gives me things to do with my standard action that are still good and affect the flow of battle, even if it's not the most optimized way to go about it.

>> No.46310809

>>46309861
>Rage
lolwut?

also: learn2breakLineOfSight. A familliar with a fog cloud wand makes you immune to most will saves.

>HP abstraction
ohboy.gif

>armor is garbage
Its mainly usefull for blocking iterative attacks. Still usefull all the way to high levels honestly.

>changing the fundamental RNG
This fucks all the math dude. You will roll within 5 of the average 90% of the time. you basically just replaced the d20 with 1d10+11.5

>>46309882
Try a warpriest. Swift action self buffs are awesome. Be human, and with the FCB you will have 4 fewer feats than a fighter at level 20. So much fun.

>>46310025
>houserules from someone who doesn't understand statistics
its trash as expected.

>>46310152
>playing a full caster doesn't require thought guys
>Lets add a lot of die rolls
You have no idea what the games flaws are. At all.

Protip:
>non-caster lack of narrative controll
>7th level spells (simulacrum, planar binding) are a literal gameplay singularity that breaks the game.

>>46310647
>Caster supremacy never was about defending the casters but was a mean to attack the game itself.
wut.jpg

Tell you what: instead of these awful houserules you just stick to level 6-10 and give martial some extra skill points? Seriously dude. Your "fixes" don't fix a damn thing.

>> No.46310814

>>46310750
As I said, added to their stances. They let you pick stuff up off the ground without burning your move for it as long as you're in any stance of either discipline. Helps for thrown weapons.

>> No.46310817

>>46310750
I think what happened was that they were buffed, but not buffed enough for some people's tastes. The problem is, PoW's major design idea is that maneuvers aren't suppose to be better options than a full attack, but an alternative option to fall back on when you are unable to full attack and a way to give variety and strategy to a martial's life. Ranged martials have the benefit of almost always getting to full attack because it doesn't matter that the enemy is far away, which makes designing maneuvers for ranged combat styles really hard to balance.

>> No.46310827

Posting this first draft again in hope of getting suggestions.


CHARACTER CREATION RULES

- 3rd level character
- Maximum hit points
- All Paizo material available
- No third party material
- No gunslingers or guns

- Characters will begin without belongings and only one set of basic clothes (if any.) Belongings that are part of class features (e.i. arcane bonds) will be immediately provided through story and game play. Additionally, very basic equipment that each characters might need (e.i. rudimentary weapons, armour, and tools) will be among the first loot rewarded, but will not be provided freely.

- Class features, spells, or abilities that provide a fly, burrow, or climb speed are not permitted. This is not for balance purposes, but because any characters that could fly, climb or burrow would not be stuck in this adventure to begin with. Class features, spells, or abilities that provide a fly, burrow, or climb speed may be substituted at GM's discretion.

- Player's must be able to answer the following questions about their character:
-What immediately motivates the character to escape the mountain?
-What will the character do when they find themselves outside the mountain?
-If the had three magical genie wishes, what would they be?

- GP will be used an an abstract measure of treasure and wealth that does not serve other purposes. It may include things such as precious metal, valuable gems, or rare/magical materials. This wealth may be used, at GM's discretion, for purposes such as item creation or material components, so not to limit the players if/when commerce is not available.

- Be aware that while I will allow all Paizo material, this is in good faith that mechanics will not be abused. Any 'broken' mechanics that are abused can and will be turned back against the party. Also be aware that I will enforce my interpretations of the word of the rules, but misunderstanding or disagreements may be grounds for character 'retcons'.

>> No.46310835

>>46310809

My issue with Warpriest is that I like to use greatswords, and a greatsword pretty much completely nullifies one of their class features.

>> No.46310866

>>46310835
Explain?

>> No.46310867

>>46310691
The Grand Loge is fucking shady and the leaders all have Super Undetecable alignment.
The abuse got so bad a fraction of the members broke off turning into the Shadow Lodge whose sole purpose was to uncover the crimes of the Grand lodge.
In the end the Shadow Lodge disbanded and was hunted down because their leader got bribed by the Decimvarat with shit tons of gold and the title of grandmaster.

>> No.46310917

>>46310827
>- Class features, spells, or abilities that provide a fly, burrow, or climb speed are not permitted. This is not for balance purposes, but because any characters that could fly, climb or burrow would not be stuck in this adventure to begin with. Class features, spells, or abilities that provide a fly, burrow, or climb speed may be substituted at GM's discretion.

This reads as "take any class, but don't play it intelligently!"

>> No.46310923

>>46310827
Not having magic items hurts martials more than casters

>> No.46310951

>>46310866
"Whenever the warpriest hits with his sacred weapon, the weapon damage is based on his level and not the weapon type. The damage for Medium warpriests is listed on Table 1–14; see the table below for Small and Large warpriests. The warpriest can decide to use the weapon's base damage instead of the sacred weapon damage—this must be declared before the attack roll is made. (If the weapon's base damage exceeds the sacred weapon damage, its damage is unchanged.)"

>> No.46310984

>>46310867

So can someone explain to me how Paizo expected us to EVER give a shit about Absalom or the Society when they do shit like this, on top of never EVER making an AP that features Absalom?

How do you fuck up so hard as a company that you can't even feel good about the organization your entire system is named after. Was it focusing on the wrong region for their first couple APs? Was it idiocy in world-building?

>> No.46310989

>>46310951
So.. You're upset that instead of getting acceptable damage on trash weapons, you're using a good weapon and not getting a pat on the head and a cookie for it? The point of that ability is to make viable warpriests of gods who use shit like quarterstaves and daggers, not to buff Conan of Crom even further.

>> No.46311003

>>46310951
So just use the greatsword damage instead? What is the problem here?

That ability is just so you can deal acceptable damage early game with some of the shit weapons.

>> No.46311043

>>46310574
I was looking toward either of the "song striker" or "Cheliax Diva". I need to be able to Buff/debuff in combat, and occasionally hit something(read: Save the fighter when something goes wrong). Out of combat, I mainly need to be able to hit Disguise and Sleight of hand. Party is a trip fighter, Pistolero, synthesist, and me.

>> No.46311057

>>46310827
>no 3PP

Why?

>>46310923
Correct.

>> No.46311062

>>46310984
I'm currently conquering Golarion.
Paizo put literally zero thought into the world as a whole.
Lastwall is such a joke, for example. It's surrounded by enemies and it's only ally is like "eeh I dunno dude maybe I'll send like 3 elves and a halfling MAYBE"
Would it have fucking killed them to get someone with half a brain to look at their world before they pumped it out?

>> No.46311066

>>46310595
None of them, if I'm interested in ancient artifacts I either do it for the glory of Cheliax as a member of the Darklight Sisterhood or I do so to accumulate implements in order to amass psychic power.

>> No.46311068

>>46311057
Don't you know CRB is where all the balance is and anything else is wrongbadbroke?

>> No.46311091

>>46311043
If you want an emergency combat option, look at the Thundercaller archetype. Burn a bardic performance round to do a sound burst that has scaling damage.

>> No.46311132

>>46311091
Also, use Virtuoso Performance with it and you can use it twice per round, or up to three times per round once it becomes a move action at 7th.

>> No.46311147

>>46310827
I can already see every "challenge" they get under this bumblefuck

>All the enemies fly and have bows... BUT YOU CAN'T!

>There's a chasm you could cross with climb or flight or actually even burrow and some time... but you can't! But the enemies attacking you as you need to do this, THEY can!

>the enemy wizard has a wand of lightning; this will be a great boon to the party, as it contains *exactly* as many charges as the wizard will have used against the party in that encounter. *exactly*. Trying to keep treasure abstract here.

>rare/magical materials will NOT be usable for things like making an adamantine sword. I know what you think of my doors and walls.

>I will allow all paizo material, and I've already added rings of wishes with *exactly* as many wishes as the enemies used against the party left before it's found, but anyone using something I didn't think of will get smitten down and "NOPE"d.

>I need a few weeks to really twist wishes up, so you have to tell them to me ahead of time. character-creation levels of ahead of time. I'll be doing a thread on /tg/ about this anyways for more ideas.

>rudimentary equipment required by the non-casters will not be provided freely. HA HA HA HA HA

>> No.46311152

>>46310809
> learn2breakLineOfSight. A familliar with a fog cloud wand makes you immune to most will saves.
Fog doesn't follow you, so you're stuck to your initiative order. Sleep / Confusion can still screw you. Furthermore, the problem's PCs' power level. They figured that one out a while ago.

> >Rage lolwut?
Last a specific number of rounds per day, limits your ability to think, trivial bonus to will and allows other to power attack you with impunity because of lower AC being further reduced. Compared to Mutagen, yeah.

> ohboy.gif
K.

> Its mainly usefull for blocking iterative attacks. Still usefull all the way to high levels honestly.
Purple Worm don't care. Dire Crocodile don't care. Dragon Turtle don't care. Most dragons don't care. Wyvern don't care. Marilith BARELY cares.

> This fucks all the math dude. You will roll within 5 of the average 90% of the time. you basically just replaced the d20 with 1d10+11.5
I will look more intently on the effects this has, but I essentially replaced the AC with SW Saga's, and given huge penalties / Good DR to armor users.

> You have no idea what the games flaws are. At all.
Please, enlighten me. What kind of careful planning does a wizard with wands, rods and pearls of power need? It basically becomes a rock/paper/scissor game where he can substitute anything he has for anything he needs. Unthinking undead? well, I got another maximized fireball! They're freakingly cheap, and guess who has the ability to craft their own?

>non-caster lack of narrative control
You are 100% right. I will look into this as well.

> 7th level spells (simulacrum, planar binding) are a literal gameplay singularity that breaks the game.
We have never reached those levels, games break apart on their own asses level 11-12.

> Tell you what: instead of these awful houserules you just stick to level 6-10 and give martial some extra skill points?
Refer back to >>46309861

>> No.46311158

>>46311062
>Conquest of Golarion

Isn't that a campaign advertised on Roll20 a while back?

>> No.46311211

>>46311147
>All the enemies fly and have bows... BUT YOU CAN'T!
>There's a chasm you could cross with climb or flight or actually even burrow and some time... but you can't! But the enemies attacking you as you need to do this, THEY can!

Some people can't handle adventure... I can!

>> No.46311213

>>46311043
Don't forget to learn Saving Finale, if you don't already have that.

>> No.46311219

>>46310984
They don't use the Society for APs (beyond Shattered Star) because the Society is used for organized play. So sane people want absolutely nothing to do with it.

>> No.46311239

Are there any improved familiars that can take a Small or Medium humanoid form?

>> No.46311260

>tfw Shattered Star is so lackluster that even the only decent woman in the campaign, Sheila Heidmarch, is already married TO A MAN.

Or is being heterosexual an unusual thing for Pathfinder?

>> No.46311295

>>46311158
Not that I'm aware of.
I finished an AP with my friends as a secretly NE character and just stabbed them all right in the dick as soon as it was over and fucked off with all the loot to conquer the world. We're now in this interesting dynamic where the GM runs solo sessions for me and the things I do there impact my friends' normal adventure as they try to rile up defenses and shit to stop my hell march.
Thing is, Golarion is so badly built that they're just constantly losing against me, as some countries only have like (and this is for fucking real) 800 soldiers against my ever-growing army.

>> No.46311318

>>46311239
Tripurasuras can take a single small humanoid form, said to be usually an adult gnome or human child.

>> No.46311326

>>46311147
This, the premise sets up all kinds of red flags. Would only play with a DM I already know, and then said DMs generally allow DSP 3pp.

>> No.46311335

>>46311152
>fog doesn't follow you
So have your familliar use the wand again next turn?

>you think rage is bad
Holey fuck. See attached. Look at what the rage powers give you. Further: gongord detected. rage makes you unable to make skill checks. that is. Anything else is just your headcannon.

>some of the "don't fucking melee this thing find another way" monsers will wreck your shit in melee. News at 11.
This isn't a problem. Don't get in melee with those. (attached build still wrecks the fuck out of most of those).


Dude: you don't exactly have the biggest grasp of mechanics. You probably shouldn't be making houserules. For example: your incredibly complicated health system, that in practice just makes everyone get the fatigued condition when at half health, and everyone has fast healing 1.

>> No.46311353

>>46310827
> No third party material
This alone will bring you hate/contempt from this board.

> No gunslingers or guns
Seriously, shit's underpowered to comical levels. I guess you don't want people selling their gear for ammo?

> Characters will begin without belongings and only one set of basic clothes (if any.) Belongings that are part of class features (e.i. arcane bonds) will be immediately provided through story and game play. Additionally, very basic equipment that each characters might need (e.i. rudimentary weapons, armour, and tools) will be among the first loot rewarded, but will not be provided freely.
I did that once. They had to use broken equipment at first. Of course, encounters were toned down to balance it. Led to a good game.

> Class features, spells, or abilities that provide a fly, burrow, or climb speed are not permitted. This is not for balance purposes, but because any characters that could fly, climb or burrow would not be stuck in this adventure to begin with. Class features, spells, or abilities that provide a fly, burrow, or climb speed may be substituted at GM's discretion.
I am okay with this, but also block teleportation. Also, like Anon already said, if you use what the Heroes have been banned from using, you're just an asshole.

> GP will be used an an abstract measure of treasure and wealth that does not serve other purposes. It may include things such as precious metal, valuable gems, or rare/magical materials. This wealth may be used, at GM's discretion, for purposes such as item creation or material components, so not to limit the players if/when commerce is not available.
If this is strictly to make things more fluid, I'd agree.

> Be aware that while I will allow all Paizo material, this is in good faith that mechanics will not be abused. Any 'broken' mechanics that are abused can and will be turned back against the party.
This sounds far too vindictive, and should be dealt with by negotiating.

>> No.46311357

>>46311326
I agree. It sounds like "control freak runs DND game, doesn't let players do anything but what he wants: episode 75, the return of the gongord"

>> No.46311385

Look.
If you want to run an adventure where your players are shit-encrusted peasants stuck in some hole or running around in sewers the whole time, PF isn't the system for you.
PF is meant to be about mighty heroes slaying fearsome beasts in fantastical locations, not about a group of Fighters missing a Kobold for 10 turns in a row.

>> No.46311407

>>46311260
unusual?

She might be the only one that's named and not killed for the lawful-evil act of it.

>> No.46311432

>>46311357
Yeah. It's those kinds of lists you only see when "anything trying to push off the rails will be severely punished" is the main unwritten rule.

>> No.46311445

>>46311260

Anon, allow me to explain to you and everyone who bothers to read this post an explanation on why Paizo has so few heterosexual couples in their campaigns.

Yes, there is an angle of SJW to it, but the sheer absence of heterosexuality can be simply explained by Paizo understanding the nature of their consumer base, specifically the nerdy white male.

Paizo understands that the nerdy white male does not want a woman who's "fresh off Chad's cock" or "off-limits because she's with a Chad" so, like any sensible company, they simply leave all their talking female NPCs single to maximize the waifu potential and minimize nerd rage. If they made it realistic, Ameiko would have a Tian fiancé from Kalsgard, Greta would have a litter of pups at home and Nadya Petska would still have her husband. There would be far fewer potential love interests for the nerd male and the ones that are still available would be glaringly obvious as love interests, which will get them flak.

So consider their choice, that all women don't have a man. Does this ruin the character? Not really, since Paizo is infamously bad at writing couples. Does it add to the character? It opens the door to creepy waifu-bait or romantic flings, which is what the nerds want, so yes.

>> No.46311491

New thread:
>>46311485
>>46311485
>>46311485

>> No.46312309

>>46310827
I just realized that this list didn't give any context. I'm starting from this point because the game will sort of be like The Stygian Abyss from Ultima. The players are being dropped into an inactive volcano and narrowly survive the fall, then must escape the labyrinthian caverns that are all thurought the mountain. This is why I said no burrowing, flying, or climbing; if the players can just fly, climb, or burrow out of the mountain then there is no adventure to be had. It's like if you wrote an entirely urban game and one player wanted to play a druid that would not enter the city, their character just would not be part of the story to begin with.

This is also why gold is absract, because if they come across any commerce at all it will be few and far between.

>> No.46312415

>>46312309
duh me, bumping the old thread before without looking

>> No.46312572

>>46308165
Animate Objects?

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