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44166020 No.44166020 [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

Oh shit.

I only just now realized the whole 40k Nurgle/Isha thing is just a spin on the old Mesopotamian Ereshkigal/Ishtar myth.

Now, Nurgle's name and certain themes are based on Nergal (god of plague and general devastation), who was Ereshkigal's husband, but otherwise, the role of Nurgle is kinda played by Ereshkigal herself, the goddess of the dead, queen of the underworld, and sister of Ishtar, the fertility goddess and one of the most powerful in the pantheon, much like Isha prior to everything going to shit for the Eldar.

So the story goes, Ishtar started out okay but over time became power-hungry and decadent. There are a number of stories about her exploits, but it came to a head in the famous "Descent of Ishtar" tale, when she tried to take over her sister's domain and reign over birth AND death.

To make a long story very short, her ass gets kicked and she gets held hostage by Ereshkigal and, incidentally, used as a handy experimental subject for various diseases. She is set free only when her consort agrees to be hostage in her place.

So, it equates to Eldar culture's decadent decline and giving birth to Slaanesh, and Isha being permanently lost to them and kept forever in the darkness. Oh, and I guess their entire civilization's downfall, whereas the original myth is just an allegory for the reason winter happens, but it just getting cold and hard to grow crops isn't grimdark enough.

Looking at Isha and Ishtar's name side-by-side, it seems as if all of this ought to have been blindingly obvious. But if it wasn't to you already: Congrats, you are now smarter in comparative (to nerd games) mythology.

That's neat.

>> No.44166406

Oh damn it's so accurate thanks anon

>> No.44166515

But where did you get the "hot" part from?

>> No.44166525

>>44166515
Ereshkigal was totally hot.

>> No.44166820
File: 240 KB, 1253x659, 1186124486812.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
44166820

>>44166020

Oh yeah! Thought of another thing.

The Descent of Ishtar story is one of those that the "Dance of the Seven Veils" can reenact, as part of it details how she was forced to shed a garment/accessory as she made her way to the underworld. Her resulting vulnerability is what made it so easy for Ereshkigal to capture her.

In the traditions of the Eldar Harlequins, reenacting the fall of their civilization and the birth of Slaanesh is one of their most noteworthy performances, with the Solitaire representing Slaanesh itself.

So, there's another connection: Ties to the performing arts!

(pic only very tangentially related at most)

>> No.44166863
File: 56 KB, 380x501, Inanna.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
44166863

>>44166525
Eh, she's fine enough...

>> No.44166946

>>44166020
Doesn't her being freed equate to the whole End Times situation when one of the Elves has to take her place when she's freed from Nurgle?

>> No.44167843

Ishtar: a bratty teenager goddesses who's lovers never had a happy ending. Also goddesses of fertility, sex, love, and war.

>> No.44170018

>>44166020
well shit your right

>> No.44170154

>>44166020

So Nurgle is just Ereshkigal in a fatsuit?

>> No.44170342

>>44166863
What?! Nipples? On /tg/?

jk. I miss when we could post nipples and puss here.

>> No.44170378 [SPOILER] 
File: 50 KB, 576x383, 1450111940956.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
44170378

>>44170342
>implying you can't

>> No.44170491

>>44166020
>Isha
>IshTaR

Yeah, that IS obvious. A lot of things 40k become a lot more clear (and sometimes interesting) when you look at where were they borrowed.

>> No.44171673

>>44166020
tell me someting new OP....,
hey heres a big secret; the four Chaos Gods are the 4 Horsemen of he Apocalypse.
Khorne = War (no surprise there)
Nurgel = Pestilence (also no surprise thre)
Tzeentch = Death (Becuse Death brings Change, its a change everyone has to go trhouugh and alo in Tarot Death means Change)
Slanesh = Famine (because you endlessly Hunger for more)

>> No.44171933

>>44166020
I'm now imagining Nurgle as an emo tsundere giantess with one eye covered by hair and jungle vine with a suspect odor.

I think i'm gonna think about that concept for the next 10 or so minutes then head to the bathroom for a long handwashing.

>> No.44172308

>Ishtar
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8KdQ7Gig770

>> No.44173445

>>44170378
mooods

>> No.44173600

>>44172308
OH LITTLE DARLING

>> No.44173655

>>44171673
> the four Chaos Gods are the 4 Horsemen of he Apocalypse.
No.

>> No.44173713

>>44171673
Wow, I can't believe nobody ever thought of that before

Wait. Maybe it's because they're obviously not.

>> No.44173861

>>44166020
Man, I love ancient mythology.

>> No.44176816

>>44166020
Don't waifu chaos gods

>> No.44177396

>>44171673
Bullshit because the OG four are
War
Conquest
Famine
Death

Pestilence is shit tier who needs to get the fuck out.

>> No.44178025
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44178025

>>44176816
you're not the boss of me

>> No.44178030

>>44166020
>Nurgle
>Beautiful
Absolutely Disgusting. Just like Nurgle would want.

>> No.44178355
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44178355

>>44167843
You might wonder to yourself, "how can someone be the deity of love AND war?"

It's because Ishtar is a gigantic thief and con-artist. She quite famously did the rounds throughout her whole divine brethren; lying, swindling, seducing, and on at least one occasion straight-up drugging them in order to abscond with their godly powers to make them her own.

Academically, it's actually believed that these stories were allegories of shifts in political power between Mesopotamian city-states -- in this case, the increasing wealth and influence of Ur, which held Ishtar's main temple.

Later, Babylon would become the most powerful, and this is why their god, Marduk, suddenly started getting retconned into existing myths, making him the hero of basically all of them.

I seriously love this kind of shit.

>> No.44178512

>>44166020
Is... Is that a bucket full of shit behind her? Did she shit in a bucket, and is gonna give it to someone for valentine's day? THAT ISN'T CHOCOLATE!

>> No.44178574

>>44178355
Wait, is Babylonian myth where the idea of gods stealing each other's portfolios comes from?

I assumed that was just some shit D&D made up.

>> No.44178669

>>44178574
>is the cradle of civilization where (X) came from?
yes.

>> No.44178862

>>44177396
So?

Change nurgle to death and T'zeench to conquest because --just as planned-- and Roma-tier politics

>> No.44178967

>>44171673
Death is an absolute change that allows no others to occur and Famine is the inability to satiate the desires one may have. They're like the exact opposite of what those two Gods would want.

>> No.44179148

>>44178862
Except Nurgle hates death. He's all about life, preferably living inside other life.

The theory's bad, and you should feel bad.

>> No.44179246

Try as one might, the Chaos Gods don't quite fit the "Four Horsemen" mold. Not perfectly, anyway.

War is Khorne, Nurgle is Pestilence. Easy. Not so easy: Slaanesh. Closest would be the interpretation where one of the riders is "Strife", because conflict borne of self-absorbtion is Slaaneshi enough.

None of them are Death. Tzeentch certainly isn't any of the above. Now, it would actually make sense if there WAS a rider for "change", because IRL, change does actually tend to wreak havoc, sometimes to truly devastating effect. It'd it's far more a harbinger of disaster than "death", which is just a thing that always happens at the end.

>> No.44179298

>>44179148
Nurgles the entire cycle of both life and death. Never changing going on and on and on, impossible to change. Then he made it so it's all the same at once for his followers so your have the eternity of living death and a bunch of zombambos who feel nothing and reek of death and festering new born diseases.

>> No.44180837
File: 16 KB, 204x300, Grooveposter.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
44180837

>>44178669
First beer. First written law. First "hero's journey". First retcons. First gods being hilarious shits to each other. All kinds of fun stuff.

Hell, their religion was actually a gigantic influence on early Abrahamic faith. Debatably, Enlil, the god of storms, was the same exact guy as Old Testament Jehovah, what with all the wrath and general disdain for most of the stuff mortals did. He caused a flood, one guy made it out okay -- Noah in the Bible, Atrahasis in Sumerian lore.

Also neat (though wildly debatable too): Ishtar may be the same as Istahar in the Book of Enoch, being a human who tricked one of the fallen angels into revealing God's true nature and "became a star". It would certainly be consistent with her character as outlined in earlier posts.

Basically, everyone with an interest in theology and literature should study that mythology like crazy, because it's a motherlode of OG tropes.

Pic related: It's Disney's Epic of Gilgamesh.

>> No.44180957

>>44178512
>Is that a bucket full of shit behind her?
You wish it was just shit.

>> No.44181029

>>44180957
I mean, I get she's a nurge daemon but...

"Hmm.. Valentine's day... I know! Let me just take a massive dump in this bucket, he'll love that!"

>> No.44182147

>>44181029
well, if he's a fa/tg/uy then he'll love it! Everyone on /tg/ has shit taste

>> No.44182652

>>44179246
what if the emperor is death? He certainly has the whole skull and bones motif going for him and the fact that he's literally a corpse ruling over an entire empire.

>> No.44185349

>>44182652
Hey, I actually like this theory.

>> No.44186482

>>44179148
You're a fucking dipshit.

>> No.44187750
File: 14 KB, 235x400, 240372949.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
44187750

>>44182652
>what if the emperor is death
Well, seeing as he's the Anathema - he kinda sorta is.

Emperor is the apotheosis of Raging at the Heavens - man making a stand against the entire universe around him and hailing the end of it's insane ways and twisted foundations. He embodies Death in the same way the Greek Tyrannicides or Prometheus did - He's the end of all things that this world is built upon, a threshold that marks the end of an era as death marks the end of a human life.

He's the Death of not just one finite life, but of all things that make the Universe ruled by Chaos - it's concepts, it's logic, ways and ideas. Not just the final peace and rest of Nurgle or the mundane change of Tzeentch, but something transcending the very reality that Chaos Gods build. In that way, he IS the embodiment of Death as Chaos Gods understand it. In their eyes, a dancing body and a rotting corpse are just one and the same mortal thing in two slightly different states. But the denial of the nature that they give to humans and humans in return give to them - now THAT is the Final End how they see it. That's why they call Him the Anathema.

>> No.44188576

>interesting thread premise with actual supported information
>HEY GAIS KAYOS IS THE WHORSMANZ
>retards agree

Fuuuuck.

>> No.44188810
File: 328 KB, 1600x1278, nergal.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
44188810

>>44166020
>Nurgle's name and certain themes are based on Nergal

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