[ 3 / biz / cgl / ck / diy / fa / g / ic / jp / lit / sci / tg / vr / vt ] [ index / top / reports / report a bug ] [ 4plebs / archived.moe / rbt ]

/vt/ is now archived.Become a Patron!

/tg/ - Traditional Games

View post   

[ Toggle deleted replies ]
File: 395 KB, 972x844, image.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
41682533 No.41682533 [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

lets discuss the worst primarch in the setting. Leman Russ was a hot head who caused conflict everywhere he went. He claimed to be the emperor's executioner but got his ass kicked multiple times. Don't get me started on muh rune priests magnus did nothing wrong

>> No.41682596

Everytime I see him I think wolfjob.

I feel dirty.

>> No.41683044

Leman Russ at least got shit done and never officially failed the Emperor.

Holy shit Lorgar on the other hand...

>> No.41683153

Lorgar, canonically. He was the first Primarch to fall to (or rather, pursue) chaos, and his time spent as a loyalist was less productive than that of his brothers. Primarchs were made to serve as generals and conquerers, and Lorgar's talents weren't well suited to the task. Because I'm a massive Lorgarfag though, I'm convinced he would've done well at pacifying and indoctrinating the planets that his brothers had conquered

Also, the Emperor rejecting deification by the Imperium was a fucking stupid move. Not only did he have enough raw power to be worthy of the title, but it would've put him in an even better position to guide (a fanatically loyal) humanity towards his ideal. Even if he wanted people to become like him, or become a race of utopian psykers, there are religions now that have enlightenment/ascension as a goal.

>> No.41683186

Leman Russ is unquestionably loyal and will strive to achieve the Emp's orders no matter what. Going as far as to contribute in the destruction of 3 entire legions.

Lorgar on the other hand was whiny ass baby that doomed humanity to its current state.
>"abloo bloo muh perfect city"

>> No.41683196
File: 99 KB, 1000x850, wowwlk-arthas-menethil3.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

I can't be the only one seeing it.

>> No.41683231

>Psykers are evil!
>...You do realize this includes your rune priests right?
>No, they'e different.

>Burn the mutants! Burn those Thousand Sons!
>So when are you going to purge your wulfen?
>They're. Different.

Fuck me the hypocrisy those Space Wolves managed to get away with is chocking.

>> No.41683268

Imperium's full of hypocrisy, what else is new?

>> No.41683281

Well yeah, but most chapters get called out on it. Some of them even get in serious trouble for it, if not outright excommunicated. Space Wolves just get conveniently ignored even though they're flaunting it.

>> No.41683292

Sh, no-one knows about the Thunderwolf Cavalry

>> No.41683425

The emperor wanted to eliminate the very IDEA of gods in order to weaken the Chaos Gods -- he hoped that by slowly making human society better and eliminating the belief in deities it would essentially starve the big four.

>> No.41683456

Because they are a Legion Chapter. Everyone knows about the Fallen and the Dark Angels dark secrets and it is intentionally ignored. For the same reason.

And the Rune Priests thing does not count because the Emperor allowed them to continue existing. To protest this is to go against the will of the Emperor.

>> No.41683471

Except the Chaos Gods won't be awakened because they are fed by emotion. Saying anything otherwise is retarded and utterly false by all the lore of the setting.

The Emperor wanted to abolish religion because he hated religion. He underlined his reasons quite well in the "Last Church".

>> No.41683579
File: 239 KB, 827x1104, 34721640978264.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

BEHOLD! It is I, Lion el Johnson. The worst primarch.

>> No.41683953

Lorgar did nothing wrong.

>> No.41683978

Told someone who doesn't like Lorgar that, he got super mad at me

>> No.41683981

The emperor could have talked to him earlier about the whole "gods and religion"-issue. And maybe tell him the truth.
Lorgar is the only primarch i believe to be "good".

>> No.41683988

> Everyone knows about the Fallen and the Dark Angels dark secrets

No, they don't.

>> No.41683997

I really felt indifferent towards Lorgar and the Word Bearers always seemed boring to me. After reading ADBs "the first heretic" he is easily my favorite primarch.
Magnus and the 1k Sons were probably more tragic, but Magnus wasn't as likeable as Lorgar.

>> No.41684247

Chaos gods grow stronger the more emotions you feed them.

>> No.41684298

Yes, and?

>> No.41684312

When it comes to building an empire it goes like this

>good at it
Roboute Guilliman
Lorgar Aurelian
Rogal Dorn

>kind of good at it
Lion El'Jonson
Jaghatai Khan
Magnus the Red

>not good at it
Konrad Curze
Leman Russ
Ferrus Manus
Corvus Corax
Horus Lupercal
Alpharius and Omegon

>> No.41684321
File: 183 KB, 387x236, 1425100187099.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

Never forget the persuasive power of Russ

>> No.41684332

The lore clearly says that Magnus was warned by the Emperor that if he catches him using sorcery ever again, he would not hesitate in destroying Magnus.

That was the oath of the Emperor. So Magnus did indeed do something wrong.

>> No.41684341
File: 679 KB, 584x584, Magnus the fool.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

Take the updated version.

The Emperor ordered Russ with no hesitation to destroy Magnus. He didn't need no convincing.

>> No.41684366

What makes you think Manus, Horus and A&O aren't good at building an empire?

>> No.41684382

My account comes from the Space Wolves' own fluff section. You dare doubt the word of the Space Wolves concerning their primarch's persuasive ability? You calling the Space Wolves liars?

>> No.41684388

Underrated post

>> No.41684416

I don't care about the Wolves. I care about justice and historical accuracy.

What's true is that the Emperor viewed Magnus as the worst of oathbreakers and ordered Russ to destroy him with no mercy with not an iota of hesitation.

So indeed. Magnus did everything wrong.

>> No.41684425


He certainly has the worst looking armor

>> No.41684452
File: 267 KB, 800x400, Emperor and Magnus.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

>Created to do magic
>raised to do magic
>educated in magical theory and practice
>get job as magician on plant of magicians
>eventually become top magician
>push back boundaries of magical lore and become foremost expert on all things magic in galaxy.
Then pic happens. no explanation or anything, just threats.
>fine, whatever. Do exact minimum needed to conform to new stupidity and superstitions of detached and out of touch ruler.
>Emperor favors the knuckle dragging borderline illiterate and his pet dog over you.
>learn that warmaster has gone to Chaos
>Calm down. Calm down. I know that Emperor Asshole isn't a complete retard. Surely he will understand the dire nature of events and accept that speed is of the essence when I send him an empire saving message using magic.
>Nope.jpg didn't even read it. Just end the dogboy after me.
>I underestimated the inhuman capacity for retardation.
>Fuck it all, I hate the Imperium and I hate Chaos the deciding factor is that Chaos isn't trying to murder me right now.
>Everyone pats dogboy on head like he did something good.
>Fuck you guys. I'll come back once I get an apology letter.
>Apology never comes.

>> No.41684477

Horus was a wrecking ball. He was good at all things war and an excellent leader of warriors. He pushes back the borders for others to fill up.

Magnus was a scholar but not an architect. I would trust him on any matter involving the warp but not infrastructure.

A&O were better at operating within an empire than building one up.

>> No.41684526

>Created to serve the Emperor in all things

That's the only thing that should be remembered.

Let us not forget that Magnus's message carried the taint of Chaos and it destroyed the wards of the Imperial palace and blew up the human Webway which allowed Terra to become under threat of a massive daemonic invasion.

Waytago, Cyclops!

>> No.41684531

It's pretty much the dumbest thing that BL did, was for McNeill to take Ward's idiot fluff and write a Nikaea where everything was banned to the direct detriment of one Primarch in particular.
The original far more reasonable and logical, and as a result: better

>> No.41684548

McNeill isn't exactly a good writer himself. Oh boy, I sure did love all that off-screen development in False Gods.

>Wow guys, notice anything different about our Primarch
>Gee, I wonder what he's been doing with Erebus all these months.
10/10 writing

>> No.41684553

>historical accuracy

That doesn't exist in 40k because GW always contradict themselves with some new publication at some point. What might be true now might as well be retconned next year. At best you will have a vague idea of what happened and you're just better off to go with the fluff you like.

>> No.41684559

>Created to serve the Emperor in all things
and then dumped on some backwater planet to develop in unexpected ways.

Emperor was a retard for not expecting them all to turn out different.

Sure they might have started out as mini-mes but they were all raised very different.

>> No.41684580

It sounds to me like he's calling the space wolves liars. I don't know what they do with liars, but I imagine they teamkill them. That's how they seem to manage most of their out-of-chapter issues.

>> No.41684601
File: 94 KB, 673x804, Guy Haley (Black Templar).jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

>>McNeill to take Ward's idiot fluff and write a Nikaea where everything was banned to the direct detriment of one Primarch in particular.

GW's dictates the changes in lore on the BL writers like (picture related). GW in their limitless wisdom wanted to make psychic powers equal sorcery and vice versa.

I can see why. Before the change, you couldn't explain why non-psychic races like the Tau and Necrons couldn't use sorcery.

>> No.41684628

>you couldn't explain why non-psychic races like the Tau and Necrons couldn't use sorcery.
Except people have given you reasonable explanations for that before Carnac. You just ignore them because you enjoy being a contrarian dickhead.

>> No.41684653

What if I told you it's not important?

>> No.41684654

Rogal Dorn could probably have prevented Perturabo from turning to Chaos, if only he'd been able to reign in his massive superiority complex. But no, he had to be dismissive cunt to Perturabo and his Legion with every breath.

>> No.41684661

I'd agree with you. But nothing /tg/ talks or fights about is really important though.

>> No.41684695

Still direct worship also feeds them. There is also the part about the dark gods being a reflection of the thoughts and feelings of mortals, so if people had better lives and we had less murderous psychopaths of both the Khorne and Slannesh verity than the gods would be weakened, or at least become more reflective of the more peaceful state of the galaxy. I've seen chaos as a giant metaphor for "You are the real monsters, the ones you see are just the ones you want to blame."

>> No.41684710

I thought this was obvious to everyone?

>> No.41684722

To be fair, Dorn was hardly the only primarch to be dismissive of Perturabo and the Iron Warriors.

>> No.41684805
File: 82 KB, 467x700, Chaos_Sorcerer_Assistant.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

I don't remember any good explanations. What explanation given were lacking because they though that the Tau are ignorant of the Warp and that the Necrons (who are insane and mad thirsty for power) wouldn't attempt to tap into the Warp if they were given a method to do so.

Below is what would happen if sorcery and psychic power are different things:

-Ethereals know about Chaos. It would be easy for them to conduct experiments and unlock the secrets of the Warp. *pooof* Tau exchange technology for sorcery screwing with their themes.

-The Necron Overlords are ever thirsting for more power. They would sacrifice millions of slaves to harness the power of the Warp and unlock the secrets of the soul. This would ruin their themes.

If you guys don't think this was the reason for the change, then please enlighten me. Why do you think GW changed such a fundamental aspect of the setting?

>> No.41684815

Not that guy, but I could have sworn I read something along the lines of, "Grey Knights know but don't care because they have demons and shit to worry about." and "High Lords suspect but don't care because it gives the DA an incentive to purge the traitor with everything they got."

In fact I think the GK one is in one of their codex's.

>> No.41684853

Lets see.

The Grey Knights know (probably most of their Ordo)
The High Lotd know.

That's everyone that matters.

>> No.41684869

But that's the one thing he wasn't. Dorn wasn't an egomaniac or with a distaste for Perturabo. He respected him and most of his brothers, and was supremely honest. He just genuinely thought he could out defend the other's attack.>>41684805

>> No.41684870

According to Pandorax (where it was revealed that the GK know) he threatened to take it to the High Lords, saying that they'd probably care a lot more than the Grey Knights do.

So from that we can infer that the High Lords probably don't know.

>> No.41684871

I know people that are convinced that the dark gods are forces of nature, so the universe actively is trying to kill it's inhabitants.

>> No.41684896

You're ignoring the fact that the Chaos Gods can corrupt mortals and send their daemonic armies to raise hell.

Also you're ignoring that the Chaos Gods are fueled by all sentient life in which their followers are just a minority. They are monstrous and powerful not because of their followers, it's because all sentient life are assholes. The Emperor cannot cure the assshole syndrome of the galaxy.

>> No.41684920

He could by purging all the aliens and getting all the humans on the same page. War was not supposed to be the standard business of the Imperium.

>> No.41684940

Only the Grey Knights know, and they agreed to keep it in wraps in order for the Dark Angels to help them with Pandorax.
The Space Wolves and Black Templars just suspect

>> No.41684956

They're all retarded.
Sometimes reading the Heresy books feels like I'm reading kids whining about shit

>> No.41685118

>Going as far as to contribute in the destruction of 3 entire legions.
This is what wolffags believe.

>> No.41685331

Let's also not forget that Emps then didn't so much as glance at the message and continued to let Horus do his thing of ruining the Imperium while sending wolfboy off to drive Magnus into the arms of Chaos.

Waytago, Emps.

>> No.41685434

The message was pure Chaos sorcery and it punched into his brain after obliterating his palace wards and opening a rift to the Chaos Realm.

Of course, he wouldn't read it. You wouldn't read anything Chaos tainted. Nothing can be gained from that.

>> No.41685462

He might have gained information.

>> No.41685589




>> No.41685616

Oh god please drop that stupid ass fan wank.

He was referencing his battle with the world eaters. Nothing else.

>> No.41685627

It could also be a trap.

>> No.41685671

He's the Motherfucking Emperor.
I'm pretty sure he can handle that shit

>> No.41685699

>He's the Motherfucking Emperor.

which means that he doesn't listen to chaos and doesn't deal with it he only destroys it.

>> No.41685783

It also means he has absolutely nothing to fear in reading it and loses nothing doing so.
If you know something (or think you know) something to be misinformation, you read it anyway to know what the enemy wants you to think.
Ignoring it outright is plain retarded, though that's par for the course with new Emepror, I suppose

>> No.41685814

It's a message from Chaos. He wouldn't waste his time reading it because Chaos can't be trusted ever.

>> No.41685863

You may want to re read
>If you know something (or think you know something, in this case) to be misinformation, you read it anyway to know what the enemy wants you to think.

>> No.41685866

The extent of how much the Grey Knights know of the nature of the Fallen was never actually described. They could know as much as a Black Knight, or be privy to information beyond the ken of a Supreme Grand Master. In either case, they're tacitly silenced by the inherent threat of the Dark Angels amassing in force and declaring war on the Grey Knights, as shown by Draigo fucking off the moment Azrael got tired of his shit and threatened him with such.

>> No.41685889

Bad idea.

Anything Chaos related must be ignored completely. That's the imperial policy.

>> No.41685955

OK, consider it from his perspective
>expressly FORBID sorcery, no matter the situation, even telling Magnus you'll tear him a new one if he so much as thinks about it
>Magnus decides to do so anyway, completely wrecking the greatest and most ambitious project in the history of Mankind, on top of shitting in your brain
>open up a portal to the Warp, which means that you have to sit like some dolt on your throne and close it with your mind
>be so angry you immediately order your executioner to bring his ass down

>> No.41686052

It's not a question of handling it, it's the fact that the message itself is inherently unreliable. Tzeentch could've changed the content of the message if he wanted to, but he knew that possibility was enough for it to go unheeded, and it'd be funnier not to change it.

>> No.41686097

>and ordered Russ to destroy him with no mercy with not an iota of hesitation.
Luna Wolf detected.

The Emperor was very unhappy with Magnus at the time but ordered Russ to bring Magnus back to him *alive*. Horus was the one who intercepted the order and altered it so that Russ was told to kill Magnus and destroy Prospero.

>> No.41686123

Judging by Draigo's conversation with Epimetheus, and his tantrum at Azrael, he knows enough to make convincing threats, but nothing specific. Presumably, senior GK know as well, if only as insurance. As for the High Lords, it's not as though Draigo would say if he did tell them. That would take away the blackmail potential.

>> No.41686150

I believe the exact threat used that made Azrael back down was something along the lines of, "I'm sure the High Lords would be interested in what you have locked up in the depths of the Rock."
Which would definitely indicate they know about the Fallen, but could even be read as knowing about Luther

>> No.41686154

All of this could have been sorted by the Emperor with one short phone call. It goes like this:

>You, Magus, I'm doing extremely sensitive warp related experiments on Terra. Don't touch the near-Terra warp or it could all blowup and open a hole in reality and suck the planet in. K, thanks, bye.

Mid you a lot of simple things could have saved the galaxy that the Emperor ignored.

>Chaos is a thing and the gods are assholes.

>If your sword starts talking its got a deamon inside it.

>Warhounds beam down and save my son and his knuckle dragging friends.

>Thunder Warriors I am folding you into the Legions as close combat specialists, or you can claim a generous pension either way you've got at most about 30 years to live.

>No Angron you can't have a Legion until we get the shrapnel out of your head.

>No Kurze you can't have a Legion until we get the crazy out of your head.

>No Russ you can't have a Legion until we can get the dog out of your ass.

>Trained doctors with nice clean surgical workshops are better than bearded old men who snort bird shit and use bone tools in a mud hut.

>Please lay off the whips and chains a little Dorn, you're making me uncomfortable.

>Please lay off the whips and chains a little Fulgrim, you're making everyone uncomfortable.

>Stop acting like shit heads to the Iron Warriors or you will be garrisoning your own worlds. You Get to claim an empire but it is them and their sort who keep it. Never forget that.

>> No.41686180

So they are the true space dorfs in the same moronic vein as WHFB dorfs

>> No.41686184

>>Trained doctors with nice clean surgical workshops are better than bearded old men who snort bird shit and use bone tools in a mud hut.
I haven't read much of the HH books, but I know this at least, was an arguement made in the novels but they gave Horus to the witch-doctors anyway because the Apothecaries couldn't stop the bleeding.

>> No.41686189

All of this can be explained by the fact that the Emperor isn't infallible, he quite clearly makes a shit lot of mistakes

>> No.41686214

A lot of really fucking stupid ones.

>> No.41686217

This. The Chaos Gods and the Emperor are pretty much the closest thing to gods in the setting, they are gods by the dictionary definition. But 40k's gods are not omniscient, omnipotent or infallible.

>> No.41686230

I doubt they'd know about Luther.
Hell, as far as the Fallen know, Luther died in the bombardment of Caliban

>> No.41686239

A lot of it is also Black Library. Thunder Warriors are BL inventions, he knew Chaos was a thing, and the daemon sword is a new addition (Fulgrim fell purely because he wanted to prove he was perfect.)

Angron has always been a bit of a conundrum of herp and derp though.

>> No.41686241

Hey, you try running a galactic empire.

>> No.41686247
File: 13 KB, 480x360, not a clever man.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

Or clever.

>> No.41686265

>Angron has always been a bit of a conundrum of herp and derp though.
I think what needs to be remembered is that the Emperor is incredibly prideful, possibly more than Fulgrim or Horus.
Angron basically giving him the finger must have pissed him off royally, and he decided this was a way to teach him a lesson

>> No.41686300

They are not gods. There is only one god and he is the god of the Bible.

A reminder that Ollanius Pius knows about the Emperor and Chaos and yet he is still a devout catholic. This proves that God is real in 40K.

>> No.41686307

>He knew chaos was a thing
I'm only halfway through legion, so I'm not yet at the part where the BL really goes off the rails on a crazy train; so the depiction might change (it might also just be a case of different author); but the Cabal says that the Emperor is the only human that could join him because he understands Chaos and can see how to beat them in the long run.

>> No.41686353

If anything, Arthas is closer to Fulgrim because they're both Elric clones.

>> No.41686386

When they were Necrontyr, there were no actual warp entities to be used for sorcery.
Necrons are robot with technology that is arguably superior to Warp.
Hence, Necron can't into sorcery.
They don't get the idea, as their warp presence is too low to be tempted directly by beings from the Warp.
Nobody to teach them sorcery.
Hence why Tau don't into sorcery.

Here, explained why they do not use sorcery that while IS related to their low Warp presence, is not the sole reason.

>> No.41686421
File: 729 KB, 1250x750, sang vs blood thirsty.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

Would Horus have had his bitchfit if Sanguinius wasn't so pretty and perfect?

It's all Sanguinius' fault, isn't it?

>> No.41686430

All those reasons and more have been used against Carnac. You're choosing to fight a battle that cannot be won because arguing with trolls means they win.

>> No.41686460

But it's fun

>> No.41686467

>Warhounds beam down and save my son and his knuckle dragging friends.

Wouldn't Angron still be pissy about that because he would loathe being saved like a helpless child? And I don't think they could ever remove the Butcher's Nails without killing him.

>> No.41686480

How do we know it's Carnac?

>> No.41686502

For you. The rest of us have to suffer the fallout from the shitposting.

>> No.41686545

Your second paragraph always makes me think.

The Emperor is ancient. Like B.C ancient. He's seen so much shit and yet he failed to realize such things that even a 20-something (I'm assuming) poster on /tg/ sees (or any other average reader of the HH novels).

Just once I'd like to read a portrayal of the Emperor that actually exhudes the gravitas of a millenia-old being that has had all that time to see and contemplate the best and worst of humanity. his usual interpretations are so fucking one-sided and blind to so many fallacies. because seeing the rise and fall of countless nations and empires logically makes you build one and follow in their footsteps.

>> No.41686553

He already got called out on being Carnac and didn't deny it. Say what you will of him, he takes credit for his posts.

>> No.41686554
File: 438 KB, 1373x1600, DSCF8897+copy.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

-had the 2nd largest legion, so he decided to split them up and feed them piece by piece into meatgrinder wars)
-spiteful, vain little turd who would get wrecked in a fight by probably any primarch.
- no idea of tactics and poor legion training, they were just jealots and daemon-vessels

-was so useless half his legion revolted
-bombed his own planet to rocks rather than than try and take it back
-literally wasted his time playing chase with kurze
-when he wasn't doing that he was handing siege guns to traitors, and weakening the ultramarines

-self destructive, psychotic, and the worst leader of any primarch.
-everything he touched turned to shit, weakening both his legion, and the traitors as a whole

>> No.41686565

He has a certain smugness and talks about his bias as it's a matter of fact. Whenever someone talks about Chaos undivided he also can't shut up about Be'lacuck.

>> No.41686587

One of the reasons why I think he's an athiest is because he's been around so long. Old fluff says he's been religious messiahs before, but many times he saw his seeds of wisdom get turned into engines of war or persecution.

So he tried to go the atheist route because he was afraid his message would get twisted again. Which it did, of course.

>> No.41686604

>He's seen so much shit and yet he failed to realize such things that even a 20-something (I'm assuming) poster on /tg/ sees (or any other average reader of the HH novels).
Stop it with this meme.
The only reason we know better than he is because of two things: hindsight, and oh yeah, the fact that this is FICTION.
It's the same like watching a game and some idiot next to you is shouting out what the players did wrong.
Yeah they did, but it's implying he would've done better in their situation

>> No.41686608
File: 870 KB, 727x1000, Lorgar.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

But Anon that's not the worst primarch.
Lorgar is the worst primarch for several reasons the first reason being he is canonically the weakest of his brothers (which led to him getting his ass handed to him repeatedly). Secondly he was more interested in building churches then conquering worlds, which was the sole purpose of his creation. Thirdly after being told multiple times not to worship the Emperor as a god he continued to do so, even after several of his brothers and the Emperor himself told him not to do it. Fourthly he was so weak-willed and indecisive that he allowed his subordinates like Kor Phaeron and Erebus to make decisions for him.

>> No.41686634

This is the moment that a discussion turned into a flame war, and one of the posts that marks a thread as shitposting.

>> No.41686676


b-but muh night lords

>> No.41686679

The Imperium never really never persecuted the Cult of the Emperor. Lorgar got the Emperor's attention by being super duper slow.

>> No.41686680
File: 518 KB, 5076x852, The Unbound.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

He was the weakest because half of his power was locked away. The Emperor didn't bother to help him awaken his potential. Him feeling inferior to his brothers fueled his need to compensate by building churches and making populations sing praises to the Emperor. You can add Lorgar's defection on the Emperor's list of sins.

Once Lorgar's dormant power was awakened, he became one of the most powerful Primarchs around (picture related),

>> No.41686753

This is what Lorgar and Guilliman both didn't get, the fact that the Space Marine Legions were created for only one reason: conquering.
They weren't meant to build shit, that was what all those countless bureaucrats were.
When the Great Crusade had ended, I have no doubt he would have done the same thing to them as he did to the Thunder Warriors

>> No.41686759

Of course that makes sense, but with his knowledge and past failures, you'd think he'd go "well, the message is good but its execution needs work. There's something to it".

Yes it's fiction, but that's no excuse to be bad fiction.

>> No.41686785
File: 105 KB, 368x268, Untitled.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

Though Guilliman was still conquering shit fast enough to outrun the news of Horus' treachery

>> No.41686788

Might as well ask why Harry didn't just contact Sirius with the mirror, or why the Fellowship didn't use the eagles to fly to Mount Doom.

>> No.41686802

I think that's why the Emperor left all that mini-empire building pass, because they were conquering shit the fastest.
Lorgar on the other hand was dragging his ass

>> No.41686822

It wasn't ward's fluff
The original - only sorcery not pure psykery - was written in white dwarf for index astartes
But within months they sold the rights for the ccg and Merrett the public school boy fedora tipper got himself fluff rights since at the time Heresy was less important
He changed it to the shitty version of the emperor as opposed to the awesome Shaman of Shamans and starchild
Surprise surprise the public schoolboy survived the culling and is now head of all the IP

>> No.41686823

Doesn't that fluff contradict FW and BL fluff?

>> No.41686840

Very much so,
It's old fluff as well, around 93 or something

>> No.41686859

I would class those different. Those are clearly loopholes that invalidate a lot of good details from the plot and make it flow worse.

The story of the Heresy could've stayed the course no matter what as the authors wanted, but the Emperor is a singular badly-written character across the board. A being of vast age and knowledge acting with the petulance and attitude of a moron.

>> No.41686867

Why did the Emperor give the Legions to total stranger anyway?

Half of them were unsuited to being military commanders.

>> No.41686899

The only ones unsuited for military command were Angron, Curze and Lorgar.
Everybody else was a whizkid.
Plus, you're forgetting that the primarchs were LITERALLY made for one purpose: commanding,
They were specifically made smarter and stronger.

>> No.41686909

That makes the fluff more pure, though. Everything after the 90's should be ignored.

>> No.41686963

>It makes sense for all the legions to immediately bumrush Terra
That was the old fluff's problem.
It was literally Isstvan III->Isstvan V->Terra, with battles like Tallarn and Molech thrown into it.
You don't win a galactic civil war with a few battles

>> No.41687026

Galactic scale wars are silly anyway. 40k is also silly, that's why it doesn't work if you take it 100% serious.

>> No.41687048

>nothing to lose
>first step to damnation
>first step in equaling magnus in foolishness

Magnus fags, please.

>> No.41687050

Nah, Sang was Khorne's initial choice, not that of Chaos as a whole.

>> No.41687067

>lets discuss the worst primarch in the setting.
Who is perturabu for 20, jake.

>> No.41687073

They may have been made for it but most hadn't been raised for it.

Corax and Angron were both escaped slaves.
Russ didn't really rule his world and did nothing to improve it.
Lion was unsociable to the extreme and micromanaged like a cunt.
Fulgrim was better at orchestrating for efficiency.
Perturabo just wanted to make great things, not blow them up.
Darn was an empire builder as was Guilliman and Logar.
Magnus was a scholar
Vulkan was a builder

The only ones that seemed to have a conquer mentality are Khan, Mortarion, Sanguinius and Horus. and I'm not so sure about Mortarion.

The emperor's entire line of reasoning seems to have been

>Lets take the Legions away from the highly trained experienced commanders and hand them to these dudes I just met because they're my sones

>> No.41687081

It was Sorcery a subtle difference.
That is why not all Psyker were purged and that the rune priest has a small measure of excuse.
Perturabo was a horrible empire builder. He took no attempt to prevent the giant wars on his planet.
Khan united his people.
Ferrus created peace on his planet untill the emperor came, then Ferrus created a competitive society to bred good warriors.
Didn't magnus forged a small empire?

>> No.41687091

wait so he beat a bloodthirster?

>> No.41687103

And yet each of them (excepting Angron, who basically should have been executed the moment the emperor met him) conquered their worlds, so they were clearly ready for it

>> No.41687148

THE BLOODTHIRSTER. The greatest of its kind. The one that guards Skull Throne. The top of the highest order of Khorne's greater daemons.

Sangy on the other hand got his ass beat by a second order Bloodthirster

>> No.41687187

Honestly, the whole thing is silly, which is why you shouldn't take it seriously.
Horus' plan itself is retarded.
OK, he takes Terra, kills the Emperor, sanguinus, Dorn and Jaghatai, and destroys their legions (nevermind that his would have cost him a half of all of his forces)
But that still leaves the Space Wolves, Dark Angels, Ultramarines out for his blood.
Furthermore, killing the Emperor would have snuffed out the Astronomican, plunging the galaxy into a second Dark Age, so good luck keeping onto all of the shit you conquered.
Horus was doomed from the start

>> No.41687189

Actually Index Astartes was 2004.

>> No.41687217

Skarbrand & An'ggrath are the greatest bloodthirsters, if I'm not correct. And Doombreed could take them both

>> No.41687219

>The original - only sorcery not pure psykery - was written in white dwarf for index astartes
>But within months they sold the rights for the ccg and Merrett the public school boy fedora tipper got himself fluff rights since at the time Heresy was less important
>He changed it to the shitty version of the emperor as opposed to the awesome Shaman of Shamans and starchild
>Surprise surprise the public schoolboy survived the culling and is now head of all the IP
Can you elaborate?

>> No.41687235

Well, he was a proxy for Chaos.

>> No.41687237

never-mind I'm retarded

>> No.41687257

An'ggrath is the greatest and most powerful of his kind. He was created to be superior to Skarbrand in every way.

Doombreed is the mightiest Khornate daemon prince but his strength compared to An'ggrath is unknown.

>> No.41687258

And no one, not Curze or Mortarion or Magnus or Perturabo pulled him aside and told him
>bro, your plan is shit

>> No.41687287

>A reminder that Ollanius Pius knows about the Emperor and Chaos and yet he is still a devout catholic. This proves that God is real in 40K.
That's like saying the CTan are gods because at some point the Necrons worshipped them over the Chaos gods. Not that I'm opposed to some thin veneer of cWoD in 40k, but your reasoning is more than a little odd if I'm to be honest.

>> No.41687303

It's really a tale about a domestic family dispute.

>> No.41687327

Are you saying that the C'tan aka Star Gods are not gods?

>> No.41687355

Wasn't that the entire point of them?

>> No.41687369

Isn't Doombreed implied to be Genghis Khan?

>> No.41687392

No, they are cosmic beings that are to Real Space what the Chaos Gods are to the Warp. Gods of reality, basically.

Power-wise they are by far greater than the "God Emperor".

>> No.41687413

I think not.

Khan is Uraka Az'baramael.

>> No.41687416

Actually, since they are shattered they are probably weaker than the Emperor in his current state.

>> No.41687438

>Are you saying that the C'tan aka Star Gods are not gods?
Very, very vaguely. Considering the vast amount of things a warp entity can do they can't (for one, having a field of awareness beyond the local star) I'd class them as powerful >>41687392 nature spirits and get it over with.

>shaking up the newcron haters from their burrows
You're cruel.

>> No.41687463

I never liked the C'tan so I'm cool with Newcrons.

>> No.41687479

Ollanius an ancient immortal dude that spent lifetimes on the battlefields of Earth and the galaxy. He met the Emperor and saw Chaos with his immortal eyes. Despite all of this he kept being a devoted Catholic. There must be something to warrant that much faith.

Just saying.

>> No.41687495

Probably Doctor Who tier writing.

>> No.41687506

Actually, no.

The Emperor fought a weakened and starved shard of the Void Dragon. The fight exhausted and he was forced to admit that destroying the shard was something beyond his power.

FYI, The C'tan were shattered to millions of shards. So that shard might not even have contained 1% of the actual Void Dragon power.

>> No.41687529
File: 63 KB, 367x202, wake up.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

>tfw you will die before the HH series reaches the truly interesting parts of the civil war

>> No.41687532

Lorgar is a sniveling fucking synchophant who did the EXACT THING THE EMPEROR SAID DON'T DO, constantly until the Emperor had to show up himself and effectively bitchslap the man.

I read the First Heretic too, and Lorgar isn't some great character or upstanding human. He's weak. Pathetic, A spineless man who needs a god to function and will grovel before any mockery of divinity. Lorgar can't stand by himself, he's too weak and pathetic to do so. He needs to prop himself against something to divine to even function, and he literally sold his soul to Chaos out of a desperate need to worship ANYTHING, SOMETHING.

The Emperor should have just killed Lorgar on the spot for failing him, and maybe wiped out his Legion with them. The Word Bearers were the only legion to fail the Emperor, and for good reason.

>> No.41687540

It just struck me that the last catholic person in the galaxy is gonna abandon his immortality and sacrifice himself to protect the biggest atheist douchebag in the galaxy.

Oh the irony. I love it!

>> No.41687546

Because 3/5ths or more of the series so far is filler crap; and some of the filler like Unremembered Empire, exists to keep legions busy so they can write more filler.

>> No.41687559

>Worst Primarch

>One of the best rated Legions who saved the northern Imperium from destruction and gave Curze the beat-down he deserved. Second only to the Ultramarines and Guilliman in quality, and even Guilliman himself believed he lived in his big bro's shadow.

Fucking what.

>> No.41687560

Roboute pls.
I agree with you

>> No.41687569

>for one, having a field of awareness beyond the local star

A C'tan God extended his awareness from the Gates of Varl to a Forgeworld near the Eye of Terror.

Just FYI.

>> No.41687573

>worst primarch
>tore the NL a new, fucked up their primarch actually made them shit their pants whenever Dark Angels were mentioned

>> No.41687586

Even if the Emperor doesn't belive in God, God still belives in the Emperor.

>> No.41687628

Oh. Yea. They did that immortals thing. Right.
>there must be something to warrant that much faith
Like there's something to warrant juke boxes playing Old Home California in Starcraft or old 1970s toys in BL novels when something as central as STCs did not survive?

Again, I'm not opposed to the idea but I don't think an anachronism like that is particularily indicative of anything when we're dealing with a setting like 40k.
Indeed. Speaking of which going by everything we know (mechanically and fluff-wise) about how faith works empy would have done well promoting religion because the warp makes faith real.

Just give them something vague like Star Wars belief in the Force or someshit. Voila, miracles.

>> No.41687651

Fair enough.

>> No.41687667


No, the Lion didn't bombard Caliban. Azrael and the modern Dark Angels did when they chased the Death Guard back in time to the destruction of Caliban in the final Legacy of Caliban book. Also the Lion couldn't have blown up Caliban- he was ON IT as it was being blown up.

>> No.41687679
File: 25 KB, 429x297, what you should do.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

>Azrael and the modern Dark Angels did when they chased the Death Guard back in time to the destruction of Caliban in the final Legacy of Caliban book
Is this a joke?
Like, surely, fucking SURELY, BL are not this retarded

>> No.41687684
File: 154 KB, 595x853, Pious.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]


He died for the sins of Emperor and all of mankind.

Honour him and never forget his name!

>> No.41687741

Will the HH novel about the Caliban war be consistent with the Legacy of Caliban series I wonder.

>> No.41687794

I'd always figured Angron's Bros were Khorne tainted and the Emperor figured it would be easier to beam Angron up than have to disappear all his buddies.

>> No.41687798

the force would have been he best one as it has no specific deity to rule them, that said a nice blend of New Testament and Hindu script would have done well also

>> No.41687878
File: 89 KB, 515x768, MKVIIIColoured.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]


Nope. It did have a cool sequence with a duel on Terminus Est.

>> No.41687905
File: 574 KB, 475x347, frustration-skeltal.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]


I don't know who they had write the latest version of the books, but I fucking hate them. I had 3rd edition, loved the flavor text and world building, picked up the new one to see where they'd taken it since I'd last messed with it.

It's like a retarded 12 year old was tasked with the rewrite. Constant repetition. Telling instead of showing through writing. Where the original books would masterfully create legions, administratums, demonic furies, alien races and whole planes of existence in a handful of carefully chosen words, the new one rambled on, incoherent, for pages, using simplistic, childish tones and meter.

I hope the author gets punched in the dick till their fucking eyes bleed.

>> No.41687928
File: 38 KB, 360x361, thisiscarnac.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]



>> No.41687945
File: 905 KB, 742x1000, 70b4f204089d7b8edf8bbecf2fa1e108.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

no Angron
-implanted all his sont with the very gthing that was killing him
-leading them headfirst into bloody assaults that cost many lives that could have been avoided
-ignoring his brothers advice and letting his anger control him

>> No.41687988

Have you read what BL has shat out lately?

>> No.41688002

I only read HH and the End Times series.
Which was mostly shit

>> No.41688008

Lorgar had enormous potential, but it was squandered.

>> No.41688014

Angron was broken and honestly the kindest thing the Emperor could have done was let him die with his gladiators and leave the Legacy of the warhounds to fight for him as a martyr

>> No.41688022

Good thing it comes from Gav Thrope, one of the GW employees who says the 40k canon is a choose your own canon adventure. So the author himself says you can ignore his shit because it's shit.

>> No.41688030

When Primarchs die, their souls get released into the Warp.

Guess who is their to welcome them.

>> No.41688043

Meanwhile all the other BL authors say the HH is how "it really happened".

I say we just pass around the cyanide pills.

>> No.41688045

Hand of Asuryan was awesome, though.

>> No.41688062

Got a quote on that or did you read it from /tg/?

>> No.41688066

I don't know, Curze got killed and nothing happened.
Seems to me that only loyalist deaths fuck up the warp

>> No.41688076 [SPOILER] 
File: 57 KB, 399x600, 1438797332322.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

Fucking Enslavers.

>> No.41688090

ADB definitely believes that what he wrote was what happened, and that he doesn't particularly care about "fan grievances, whether legitimate or not"

>> No.41688103

Do we have any source that goes into the details of how Curze beheading went?

>> No.41688114

ADB is another source of "Choose Your Own Canon" Adventure, even though that's not how he typically presents his views. Probably because he was citing the IP Manager in his case, and even admits that he usually inserts his own artificial canon tiers on the setting.

I doubt there's many anons who take it to heart either, everyone seems to think their 40k is the right 40k.

>> No.41688124

>assassin sneaks up on him alone in his room
>he tells her that he knew she was coming
>tells her that his death will prove the truth of his words
>she leaps to make the kill
>the recording cuts out

>> No.41688127

ADB is a strong believer of the "Everything is true and none of it is true" approach of the fluff.


So cross him of your list.

>> No.41688134

Lords of the Night.

Night Haunter ordered his men not to interfere. Temple Assassin calmly walks into room. Night Haunter kneels down.
>Death is nothing compared to vindication.
Assassin chops his head off and walks out.

>> No.41688140

So we don't see the fireworks?

>> No.41688156

>- no idea of tactics and poor legion training, they were just jealots

But this is wrong. Once they stopped converting their conquered planets into shrineworlds, they captured more/faster than the other legions.

>> No.41688178

Krieg says that Konrad always have felt the kiss of Chaos.

His soul must have been already claimed.

>> No.41688208

He openly spat in Lorgar's face when he saw how deep the corruption of Chaos ran

>> No.41688259

Oh really? Remember the painting incident?

>> No.41688268

He had a split personality. A good man (Curze) and a monstrous butcher (Night Haunter).

So you can guess who spat in Lorgar's face.

>> No.41688272
File: 808 KB, 1137x1608, 063.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

Yeah, no money shot.

>> No.41688275

It doesn't matter if you deny it, Chaos will still claim you. It doesn't have to be consensual.

Also the Night Lords were chaos as fuck at the end. Living building of people. PEOPLE!

>> No.41688291

>Good man


We're defining good men as sociopathic murderers now who believe planets need to be ruled by random, unannounced executions/threat of genocide?

>> No.41688302

That fluff is old 11 years.
Pretty sure it's been retconned by now
They're just evil, not chaotic

>> No.41688312

Yeah it's not like it would've been worth it a hundred times over had he listened or anything.

>> No.41688333

I don't think so. It pops up in the HH.

>> No.41688340

>he just thought he was better than Peturabo
>Iron Cage happens
>takes 3 other legions to bail the Fists out

Yeeeaaah, Dorn sure showed him.

>> No.41688344


In "the first heretic" it looks like the Word Bearers are totally surprised by the fact the emperor hates their "perfect worlds".

>The Word Bearers were the only legion to fail the Emperor, and for good reason.

The reason being the emp being a god but denying it?
The Emperor failed the WBs, not the other way around.

>> No.41688355

>It pops up in the HH
The only thing similar to that is that Curze is going (even more) insane during the Thramas Crusade

>> No.41688364

Considering that Krieg was a daemon prince at the time, I think he thought that Konrad was a good man compared to monsters such as himself

>> No.41688381

The Emperor wasn't a god at the time, just a powerful psyker. He only ascended upon being entombed on the throne and being fed a shitton of prayers and human souls daily for several centuries.

>> No.41688389


>> No.41688404

>the force would have been he best one as it has no specific deity to rule them, that said a nice blend of New Testament and Hindu script would have done well also
Yea breddy much. Just anything that tells people "'Hey if bad shit happens go look into yourself and use faith and action to work towards something better". Atheism is the worst you can do in a world that is inherently biased towards supernatural shit happening.

>> No.41688415

Right, and it's a retarded policy.

>> No.41688435

According to "Vengeful Spirit", that isn't true.

He ascended way before that.

>> No.41688455

He didn't ascend, he just got supreme power as well as the knowledge on making Primarchs.
He's far closer to a Daemon Prince.
On top of that being retarded fluff

>> No.41688491

It also pops up in one of the HH books that the Night Lords were the only traitor legion looking with disgust at the Gal Vorbak after the dropsite massacre and avoiding any contact with them after seeing them transform into demons.

>> No.41688508

He actually was.

>> No.41688510

Oh hey, more of McNeil's retarded drivel.

That man needs to be fucking sacked before he fucks up any more.

>> No.41688512
File: 216 KB, 577x193, Untitled.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

>just a powerful psyker
>The Lord of Humanity stood alone against the massed might of the Chaos Powers
>Just a powerful psyker

>> No.41688524

Didn't Magnus disobey the Emperor and annihilate the Emperor's webway project? ... a project that would have eliminated the need for hazardous warp travel?

>> No.41688531
File: 40 KB, 252x323, 1391295580392.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

Oh god, I love this post so much.

>Warhounds beam down and save my son and his knuckle dragging friends.
>Trained doctors with nice clean surgical workshops are better than bearded old men who snort bird shit and use bone tools in a mud hut.
I lol'd

>> No.41688537

And he was not a warp god at the time, just the most powerful psyker in the materium. But not a god.

>> No.41688552

Yeah, he used sorcery to deliver a warning. Regular astropathic communication was too slow and couldn't reach the Emperor. So he used sorcerous rituals to enhance the power of his message to smash down the Emperor's psychic defenses to deliver the warning.

Good going Magnus.

>> No.41688566

I guess that's true. There is fluff that says driving off the Chaos Gods themselves is what made him comatose. His power level was restricted by having a physical body.

>> No.41688576
File: 7 KB, 284x178, fasdgqagqe.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

Primarchs who were important enough for a pre-forge world model:
>Leman "the man" russ

Primarchs who did not get a model:
>Rowboat girlyman
>Rogal Dorn
>Lion El'Jonson
>Jaghatai Khan
>Magnus the Red
>Konrad Curze
>Leman Russ
>Ferrus Manus
>Corvus Corax
>Alpharius and Omegon

>> No.41688590

He did.
That webway thing was destroyed by accident though and could have prevented if the Emperor had told Magnus about it and to be careful because of it.

He told the Emperor that Horus would turn and the Emperor ignored it and went fully butthurt about his little toy project.
Its hardly Magnus problem if his father turns out to be a mega autist. (which explains alot actually)

>> No.41688606

There were models of all the demon primarchs for epic though.

>> No.41688609

The only model that could ever be allowed of Great Perturabo is one made by his own two divine hands.

>> No.41688610

I'm sorry, but I can't take that as canon because he got something wrong there. The Templars aren't the only chapter to worship the Big E. The Red Scorpions, Red Hunters, and Fire Angels worship him too.

>> No.41688611

>They were specifically made smarter and stronger.
That doesn't necessarily make them better commanders. Not all intelligence translates into warfare savvy, and being a strong warrior has nothing to do with commanding.

>> No.41688613

Literally every single one.

>> No.41688614
File: 205 KB, 1034x772, night_lord_daemon_prince.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

>Acerbus's voice was a poisoned needle, pumping toxins into his brain. 'Of course he knew,' it hissed. 'He understood his own soul better than anyone. He understood the division in his heart. He understood the choices before him,’

>'But he chose me... he chose me!'

>'He chose me, Sahaal. He knew that he was two men. One was... just and righteous-' the daemon spat the words, disgusted '-whilst the other... mm... the other had felt the kiss of Chaos all its life. One thrived on focus. The other ate fear!

>'And he chose the first, damn you! He spurned Chaos! He chose me!'

>'No,’ The claws scooped at the flesh of his shoulder, igniting every nerve in his body. The voice was relentless, crumbling every bastion of his resistance. 'He fooled himself. He was divided, but the dark side was strongest. He had foreseen the fate of the Corona, so he bequeathed it to you. He set you to chase after it like some vapid dog, doomed to an era of sleep. He sent you away, so your... ha... your worthy witterings could not obscure his vision. His vision of a Legion that sowed fear in his name. A Legion to eat the terror of the Imperium. He knew you would never accept such a thing. He knew you had to be removed,’ The beast leaned down, so close that its fanged maw all but touched Sahaal's cheek. Hot breath washed over him. 'He condemned you to your prison, little Sahaal. He exiled you!'

>'No! You're lying! If that were true he would have simply killed me!'

>'And leave the Corona unguarded? Leave his killer to steal it? Use your sense, Sahaal,’

>'But he told me everything! The... the sanctioned genocides! The Emperor's betrayal! The assassin before the Heresy!'

>'Lies. The whispers of his Chaotic side, pouring poi¬son in the ear of his virtuous self. Perhaps... hah... perhaps he even believed it himself,’

>> No.41688617

you would probably be mega autistic too if you were a composite of a bunch of ancient shaman who's seen humanity's highs and lows in person, and had an all consuming obsession with fostering their greatness

>> No.41688619

You retarded anon? Magnus had a model.

>> No.41688623

That's bullshit and you know, you lying fucker.
Fulgrim, Mortarion, Angron and Magnus ALL had epic scale models.
Now yiff in hell

>> No.41688634

>lying out of their fucking teeth
pick both

>> No.41688642

Except he used chaos sorcery and the warp to deliver his message.
>How could he not believe his best friend was going to betray him, when his friend warned him, VIA letter delivered by his arch enemy with 0 anti-tampering measures, that his best friend was going to betray

>> No.41688649

>Take on the massed power of the Chaos Gods
>barely took on a shard of the Dragon

Warp gods are pushovers, aren't they?

>> No.41688651

He told Magnus not use sorcery for fuck's sake. Isn't that enough?

The Cyclops destroyed and utterly annihilated his project, shattered his defenses, opened a new butthole into reality allowing Chaos to deverse it daemonic diarrhea on Terra of all places, and sent a chaos-tainted message.

Magnus was a fucking retard. If Dad says don't do it, it means don't fucking do it.

>> No.41688653

Carnac only picks one. When it comes to the Horus Heresy, he's basically Lorgar made manifest in reality.

>> No.41688672
File: 295 KB, 451x989, ouysfojyabhsklfnqf.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]



>> No.41688674

What can I say, the incompetence of McNeil knows less bounds than Ward's own.

>> No.41688698

Doesn't matter, you were still wrong.
>b-but they look like shit
Maybe so, but Leman's looks like he's a neanderthal.
Oh wait.

>> No.41688715

Daemon or whatever, his explanation goes hand in hand with Konrad's behavior in the HH. His Chaos side was taking over.

And another thing, Krieg leads the largest coalition of Night Lords warbands. Everyone loves the guy.

>> No.41688739

He did because all other ways were to slow and he wanted to deliver the message in person so nobody could alter it and to give it more importance.

>> No.41688746

Sweet merciful Jesus. This is kind of funny considering Emps was Jesus.

>> No.41688759

>He told Magnus not use sorcery for fuck's sake. Isn't that enough?

So should Magnus sit on Prospero waiting for Horus to slaughter the Imperium and do nothing?
Sorcery was the only way to warn the Emperor in time.

>> No.41688765
File: 86 KB, 673x101, Once More Denied.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

Reminder this happened when the Dark Gods failed to seduce the Lion.

>> No.41688782

>Konrad's behavior in the HH.
Either you're illiterate or intentionally being obtuse.
First of all, if you were not completely brain dead, you'd see that that entire speech was to fuck with Sahaal.
Secondly, so far in the heresy he's clearly shown to be completely in control of the actions, going as far as exiling all the psykers in the NL legion.
But of course, that means nothing to you.
You've got your own shitty little story in your shitty little story, and nothing as trivial as pure evidence is going to make you change it

>> No.41688791

You do know that the lore says that because of Magnus, the Emperor is forever damned to be imprisoned on the golden throne?

>> No.41688807

That still doesn't fix the McNeil-tier idiocy that Thorpe spewed all over the pages of that last book.

He could have flown to Terra and at the very least added his legion to the number of loyalists.
But he was a dickhead who had to prove he was right about everything. Turns out he actually was wrong.

>> No.41688820

Astropaths. Longer, but safer. Plus it would have been coherent and consistent with probably a fuckton of reports coming from other places as well.

Lion best primarch

>> No.41688823

He's damned to be there because he was already lethally injured by Horus. Had Leman not gone purge and kill on Magnus and had the brain to talk it out first, Magnus's support would have given the Emps the edge to win the fight.

>> No.41688836

He actually was right though. That is the whole point of all those HH novels. To add a tragic plottwist to all the "evil" guys.

>> No.41688840
File: 25 KB, 476x185, Chaos Apocalypse.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

Not just because of Magnus. He's also stuck to the throne because the fight with Horus left him on life support and leaving it to revive would cause his attention to falter, heralding in the chaos apocalypse.

>> No.41688853

He still would have hat to sat on that throne in order to keep the warp breach in Terra's heart closed

>> No.41688858


Vulkan and Horus note that Curze mental stare is deteriorating. Vulka spends sometime with him in order to fix him but to no avail. He continues to spiral into madness.

Also Krieg's speech was part to screw with Sahaal and part reality. Konrad basically told everyone they were the chosen ones to screw with them all.

>> No.41688863

He is in the throne because he didn't listen to Magnus warning. He could have went to stop Horus after Magnus told him, but no, he sat in Terra doing nothing.

>> No.41688881

Forget to say just because he was competent doesn't meant he wasn't batshit crazy.

>> No.41688890

>Vulkan and Horus note that Curze mental stare is deteriorating. Vulka spends sometime with him in order to fix him but to no avail. He continues to spiral into madness.
Going more insane =/= falling to Chaos.
Hell, Vulkan went insane in Unremembered Empire, does that mean he fell to Chaos?

>> No.41688895
File: 163 KB, 600x921, Ahirman Unchanged.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

>That still doesn't fix the McNeil-tier idiocy that Thorpe spewed all over the pages of that last book.
Or the Carnac in this thread.
>Lion best primarch
Rejoice, brothers! For this thread is almost dead! The upcoming oblivion is upon us! Let us all pray that Ahzek will find something in the Black Library that can defeat the Chaos Gods. I'm not sure if the Black Library authors will be too effective though.

>> No.41688922

I don't even know why I read that series when I know there isn't going to be a payoff

>> No.41688937

It doesn't take place during the modern 40k right? Maybe it's showing a transition to modern day Ahzek.

>> No.41688941


>Trusting a chaos tainted message sent by your most psychically attuned son that has spent eons dabbling with the warp and may already be corrupted by chaos talking about the betrayal and rebellion of your favorite and most trusted son ; using means that you explicitly forbade to use, and that consequently opened a daemonic incursion on Terra and ruined your pet project.


>> No.41688952

>He told Magnus not use sorcery for fuck's sake. Isn't that enough?
No. His reasons for telling Magnus were shitty and Magnus knew fucking better. A simple fucking message from Emps and the whole thing could have been avoided. Not to mention how fucking important a message it was and that it was literally the one situation in the Imperium where sending it could do notable harm and Magnus didn't even know that. Emps too knew a mistake like that could fuck everything up, and yet he didn't tell the guy capable of making that mistake not to make it specifically because it would fuck shit up. That makes Emps the fucking retard.

>> No.41688962

Why couldn't they just have them seal the webway with hexagrammatic wards and shit? Why does the Emperor need to hold the doors closed himself?

Between stopping the galaxy-wide chaos apocalypse, shaping the Astronomicon and now holding a warp breach closed under Terra; seems to me he already has enough on his plate.

Next they're going to say an armed fusion bomb was teleported into his throne room and on top of all the above he also has to keep it floating so the pressure plate doesn't hit the floor.

>> No.41688968

It is though.
The second book ended with a time related mind fuck, the guy who joined Ahriman because his chapter was exterminated for Heresy roused the suspicion of the grey knights which led to the extermination of his chapter

>> No.41688972

> a chaos tainted message

Magnus literally traveled there. Didn`t you read the HH novel about it? It was a teleport spell.

>> No.41688989
File: 791 KB, 1258x339, Magnus the moron.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

As long as the breach in the Webway exists, the Emperor cannot leave the Golden Throne.

Guess who we can thank for this? The moment we remove the Emperor from the picture, DAEMONS DAEMONS EVERYWHERE.

>> No.41689007
File: 137 KB, 1024x709, ahzek_ahriman_s_helmets_by_alex_mort-d8tphva.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

Oh, well I was wrong then. I'm just going to try my best and improve this thread with posting Ahzek.

>> No.41689011

Being properly alive probably would have helped him find a better solution.

>> No.41689028

Some Warp breaches can never be fully sealed.

Example like the Gateway to the Gods and Khaine's Gate.

>> No.41689041

>Guess who we can thank for this?
The Emperor for trying to crowbar his way into the Webway since he couldn't make a deal that wasn't total shit with the Eldar?

>> No.41689052

The reason behind the madness is key.

Vulkan went mad from torture andrepeated death.

Curze went mad because he was tainted.

>> No.41689062
File: 51 KB, 800x800, cute_ahzek_ahriman_by_nuditon-d7y73bb.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

>> No.41689085
File: 361 KB, 500x500, Rubric Cube.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

>> No.41689093

>It's not Magnus' fault
>he a good boy he dindu nuffin
>need mo geneseed fo dem Chapters
Or maybe he went mad because he was dumped on Gotham on a planetary scale.
Or maybe it was those visions he received, that showed what would happen to the Imperium.
Or maybe it was seeing his brothers degenerate into Chaos.
Or maybe it was one of the dozen other Freudian excuses he has

>> No.41689108

What sound?

>> No.41689109

First off, He tried to make deals with the Eldarand incorporate them into his empire. They refused.

Second, his Webway entry worked fine and he had wards to protect it. He didn't expect his own son would send a Chaos tidal wave fro the other side o the galaxy towards it and right into his brain.

From Magnus's wankery, the Emperor is blameless.

>> No.41689111
File: 22 KB, 330x858, Ahriman-Chief_Librarian.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

>> No.41689136

It was implied at the very least that the Grand Supreme Masters (and likely the higher echelons of the GK) know about it in the Pandorax novel where Draigo calls out Azrael on it. Whether the other chapters know about it however is debatable. I recall at least one instance where the Black Templars were fucked over by the Dark Angels in regards to the fallen and they did not see that coming. That in turn implies that the Black Templars did not know.

>> No.41689141

Hurr durr pretending to be stupid
Hurr durr executioner

One of worst if not the worst primarch.

>> No.41689163
File: 1.08 MB, 682x649, Ahriman_HH.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

The sound of the Lion refusing to join Chaos.

>> No.41689235

The Lion didn't refuse to join Chaos. Luther realized he was about kill his son and dropped his sword and gave a cry of despair.

They realized not only did they fail to the kill the Emperor, but they couldn't even get a consolidation prize in the Lion's death.

>> No.41689242
File: 203 KB, 516x1548, ahriman_of_the_thousand_sons_by_vanxee-d317ijs.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

>> No.41689267

Actually, yeah, it wasn't, given that he was trying to stop the Heresy, and the problem was due to knowledge he not only didn't know about, but was explicitly kept from having.
>They refused.
Because his deals were total shit. Did you see what his empire was? Place was a shitshow, with entire worlds scourged of all life so the cogboys could set up factories run by slaves. Not to mention
>astromicron requires choirs of psykers
>All Eldar are psychic
>All Eldar are psychically stable
>All Eldar are long-lived

Logical conclusion is he'd build more warp-lighthouses before rounding up the second class aliens, seeing as they have no problem doing that to their own people.
>entry worked fine and he had wards to protect it.
Clearly it didn't when a simple telepathic message blew the whole thing up due to the recipient being in the general area of it.

>> No.41689270

Luther's despair at realizing he was about to take his son's head off and dropping his blade.

>> No.41689310

>Clearly it didn't when a simple telepathic message blew the whole thing up due to the recipient being in the general area of it.

A simple telepathic message doesn't open up a breach in the Warp that even the Emperor cannot close.

>> No.41689312

Lion is boring primarch.
Remember, during GC his legion was second best, only Horus and his legion were better. Yes he was paranoid, yes he was power hungry and yes he was autist. But he is not the worse.
Worst ones are:
Magnus and Russ for the same reason. They think they know the best, and beliove they are always right.
Angron and Curze. No explanation needed.

>> No.41689317

Now that that's cleared up, what's this business of time-travelling Dark Angels bombarding Caliban. The fuck has Thorpe done now?

>> No.41689332

Time Travelling Dark Angels bombing Caliban, evidently.

>> No.41689352

We're not discussing IF the emperor got the eldar to share their secrets.
They didn't and that may or may not be the Emperor's fault, or it might be theirs, or it might be both, or neither.
But in Magnus' case, we know 100% he's to blame for fucking his shit.
You Magnus fanboys are ridiculous.
If Magnus took a shit on the Golden Throne, you'd still defend him

>> No.41689358

Did the message itself make the breach, or did the Emperor's hatchet job of a door make the breach without its wards?

>> No.41689366
File: 92 KB, 965x1198, Asmodia.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

For what purpose? Does he need a visit from Asmodai?

>> No.41689385

Or maybe the Emperor didn't expect to need to defend the door, seeing as he EXPRESSLY ordered Magnus not to use sorcery?

>> No.41689401

But how? Why?
I think he does.
I'd wager the Fallen are behind this

>> No.41689422

The Lion is so honorable he apologized to Curze while disemboweling him.

>> No.41689459

Because all Black Library novels these days need to be about big galaxy changing events with le ebin plot twists.
The days of trashy but fun novels about OC battles is long in the past.

>> No.41689467
File: 93 KB, 297x488, Asmodai.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

>I'd wager the Fallen are behind this
I don't think even the Fallen would go this far.
>I think he does.
I like you. After him, let's get ADB and McNeill.
Truly a primarch worth honoring.

>> No.41689472
File: 868 KB, 647x691, The breach.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

The message.

>> No.41689483

Also Vulkan is no longer insane. He's back and not longer mad as a hatter!

>> No.41689486

>big galaxy changing events with le ebin plot twists
You forgot the fact that they're not even galaxy changing.
BL are enslaved by GW

>> No.41689503

Actually, there ar plenty of OC novels in BL.

More so than galaxy changing stuff.

>> No.41689522

>Because all Black Library novels these days need to be about big galaxy changing events with le ebin plot twists.
If they wanted that they could have just did novels about the War in Heaven and revealed that the source of the C'tan's power came from a pact made with the Chaos Gods. Or that the Old Ones made a deal with Tzeentch so that Orks would be green. Or that the first Eldar made a deal with Slaanesh so that they can have pointy ears.

>> No.41689550

True, I should have said "THAT WILL CHANGE THE FACE OF THE GALAXY FOREVER" but they don't because they can't.

Villains don't even win in 40k novels anymore. 40k has become yet another setting where the Villain threatens to destroy everything and then fails like clockwork in the novels. Just look at Priests of Mars.

40k novels, while never high quality, used to be exciting because there was a real possibility the antagonist might win.

>> No.41689556
File: 28 KB, 1162x850, 1436805338385.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

Agreed brother. They have strayed from the path. By their deaths we shall grant them redemption.

>> No.41689566

Horus wasn't the best, it's the oddity of the Black Library. Horus wasn't the best fighter, the best strategist, or the strongest Primarch until he got buffed by Chaos. The reason why Horus was made Warmaster was because his charisma score is off the charts compared to the other Primarchs.

The best Primarch and Legion are Guilliman with his Ultramarines, considering they forged a massive mini-imperium that didn't go to shit with the Horus Heresy and still stands today. The Dark Angels and the Lion were originally the best, but the student surpassed his teacher.

>> No.41689581

While I see, it does not specify whether it was the shield within the Webway, on the Imperial Gate, or both. If it was limited to the Imperial Gate, which causes a cascading event into the Webway, then I'd question whether it would have still happened if the Emperor hadn't built his gate.
The door's psychic shit, you always seal that up tight.

>> No.41689595
File: 44 KB, 584x788, Int_Chaplain_Asmodai.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

And now the thread has hit the bump limit. May this thread die with more dignity than the integrity of Black Library.

>> No.41689614

There is no greater man than the one who apologizes to the gutter scum sociopath for his dishonorable blow.

>> No.41689641
File: 8 KB, 250x298, Dark_Angels_Chapter_Icon.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

Despite his flaws, the Lion proved himself to be a true son of the Emperor more so than the traitor primarchs.

>> No.41689657

Pretty much this.
Guilliman and the El'Jonson both had the record and military skill to be Warmaster, but their personalities were such that they couldn't lead the other Primarchs out of a wet paper bag.

>> No.41689667

Loyalty, even if questioned, is its own reward.

>> No.41689673

Then the Emperor is a massive retard anyway for thinking he should embark on such a dangerous project without taking proper precautions.

>> No.41689686
File: 260 KB, 900x1272, Sanguinius_by_slaine69.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

>because his charisma score is off the charts compared to the other Primarchs.
How is Sang not charismatic?

>> No.41689715
File: 10 KB, 359x403, Luther_-_Great_Betrayer.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

Praise him and curse the Betrayer's name for causing the Lion's noble sons to hunt down their brethren.

>> No.41689741

They still have that super secret they try to cover up. Probably impacts a bit on Sanguinius' charisma score. Plus Horus being the Emperor's special snowflake, yadda yadda.

If only some fucker had the wisdom to abort Lorgar in the pod.

>> No.41689770
File: 627 KB, 644x521, Magnus ruined everyzing.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

Stop defending Magnus.

FYI, the Emperor says that the Old Ones are older than our Sun. How old does that make the Old Ones?

>> No.41689793

>If only some fucker had the wisdom to abort Lorgar in the pod.
If I found myself in 40k today and met the Emperor before the Heresy I would tell him the following "Take a pillow, Golden Man, and find Lorgar when he's asleep. You'll know what to do."

>> No.41689798

Over four billion years.

>> No.41689815

>Requires virtually all my power
>Is also holding the Chaos Gods as bay from ripping into each an every living human across the galaxy
Chaos Gods confirmed a shit.

>> No.41689837
File: 251 KB, 734x950, 3206474-emperor_of_mankind_by_genzoman.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

All the more reason to praise the most fabulous thing in 40k.

>> No.41689875

Just you wait until the 40K End Times when all the propaganda will be stripped away exchanged with the hard truth.

>> No.41689932

Luck to you brother. Never falter in your duty. For the Lion, for the Emperor.

>> No.41689976
File: 296 KB, 1115x1386, He's dead, but not out.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

You do realize that Emps's plot armor is only rivaled by the Ultramarines right? The Four Great Parasites will never defeat him, nor will their slaves.

>> No.41689979

It's even in a chaos daemons codex. The Dark Gods know that the Emperor will eventually go insane or fail, and that reality will end. The hard truth is that the Emperor may be the equal of the Dark Gods, but he is still bound to a mortal body. Soon his flesh will fail and his reality will end. And then he will be left alone in the warp, knowing that reality had been ended because his form had been that of a mortal. And he spend the rest of eternity wallowing in his failure.

Just kidding, he will take the greatest of the champions of reality and create his GalaxyStorm ForeverGuard(tm) and take the fight to Chaos in AGE OF EMPEROR

>> No.41689980

He was. Everyone liked him, even Horus. But Horus was also charismatic, had more victories, and was the Emperor's favorite. So Sanguinius didn't really have a chance, however much he deserved it.

>> No.41689993
File: 30 KB, 624x805, Asmodai's Face Plate.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

May the heretics repent for they die tomorrow.

>> No.41689996


Lion was also a tactical genius who was undefeatable on the battlefield.

>> No.41690019

Dang it. Sang had the best hair. At least he wins in that department.

>> No.41690130
File: 381 KB, 298x442, Archaon_and_the_End_Times.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

Nah, many claimed to be the equal or greater than the Chaos Gods. When the final hour comes, they are revealed as charlatans. See fantasy for example.

>Pray for Sigmar, for surely he is greater than the Gods of Chaos
>Woe us, the Everchosen has cast him down!

>Pray to Gork and Mork, dey are more killy dem them Kaos gawds har har

>kneel before Nagash, the Chaos Gods fear him above all!
>Impossible! Our master was vanquished by the dark champion Archaon!

And it keeps happening.

>> No.41690194


Pretty sure Fulgrim has better hair.

>> No.41690198

Literally every Primarch (even the losers like Alpharius, Curze and Mortarion) liked Horus.
He's the only one that was liked by all brothers

>> No.41690231

Funny thing is that the Fantasy Gods are much weaker than their 40k counterparts. 40k! Gork and Mork are much stronger than Fantasy!Gork and Mork because there are more Orks to empower them. Face it. Not Archaon, or Abaddon can overcome the faith of trillions.

>> No.41690263

Considering that each of the Mortal Realms are the size of a universe, I despite that claim

9 Universes > one galaxy.

>> No.41690318

I don't think there's enough time to debate that. But I can say that they were at least equals.
But that one galaxy is filled to the brim with horror that makes you want to believe that there is a better life after this one. Also, one more thing. He has no dakka.

>> No.41690385


>> No.41690423

I'm sure when Sigmar is done with the process of making thousands of Sigmarine chapters things will change.

>> No.41690587

It's a slim chance.

Eternals are finite (the moment Sigmar runs out of Sigmirite, they are finished). Chaos is infinite.

He can't take on the full might of Chaos unless he reforges the old Alliance of Order.

>> No.41690655

That's what he makes them out of? I think I remember hearing something called that before. I'm guessing it's like Australium.
>He can't take on the full might of Chaos unless he reforges the old Alliance of Order.
>Slap the elf idiots until common sense has filled their heads
>Show Gorkmorka who's the biggest and baddest
>Be too spooky for Nagash
Am I missing anyone?

>> No.41692334

I would say it was more a case of similar powerset. Both His and their powers come from the Warp.
Also, pretty sure that ages divide those events.

>> No.41692447

Had Leman not go all Khornate on Magnus, there would be Magnus to sit on this throne, as it was meant to be.
Instead, Emps never told the guy that was instrumental in all of that about that one project he could help him with from the start.

Name (leave empty)
Comment (leave empty)
Password [?]Password used for file deletion.