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/tg/ - Traditional Games

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[ERROR] No.41010694 [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

A lot of people use "that's just history" to justify a lot of things in their game, from why there are no black people or women in power to why the setting is gritty and grim despite the presence of magic. It "ruins suspension of disbelief".

But how are they wrong? What are some things that everyone gets wrong about history, but no one would believe? (Sources are good)

Something like "dinosaurs had feathers" or "vikings were lawyers" level shit that completely turns people's idea of how history looked on it's head. What do people get wrong all the fucking time.

>> No.41010721

Samurais were totally different than fiction

>> No.41010725


'Vikings were lawyers'? Could you explain, because this sounds interesting.

>> No.41010737

The "dark ages" werent dark, just different.

>> No.41010753

Depends on the setting.

>> No.41010806

They had a fairly complex legal system.

The most notable thing I remember is the fact that in official duels to decide something each participant had three shields they could use. Pretty sure they were special shields or something too, only used in these sorts of duels.

Also, when claiming property a Viking could claim up to as much land as he could walk around, literally the perimeter, in a day.

>> No.41010844

you just need to see things around the world: rural areas are not horrible places to live, cultural diversity is common everywhere including places that the world at large see as "one hat culture" and even warzones are not a grim and gritty place of death, more like a place with scared people and sometimes you see fucked up things.

Seeing how the world is now you can extrapolate how the past was in general, and remember than people tend to write things because they are entertaining, extraordinary or outright fantasy, and seeing how we tend to learn a lot from written material, most of it will be outliers.

>> No.41010845

Only 5% of all Vikings actually went out pillaging.

Knights don't duel them self to death every time they meet on the field.

Hitler did nothing wrong.

Katanas aren't folded for years over a million times.

>> No.41010953

>Hitler did nothing wrong
I'd call not focusing on the push to Moscow a mistake.

>> No.41011016

I think he should've made sure all the Jews were killed before he did anything else. And what he should've done was take over Africa. WW2 did more for the advancement of niggers than than NAACP ever will if it's around for two hundred years. Millions of great whites died in a Jew manipulated war paving way for a Scandinavia that's blacker than a mudhole.

>> No.41011028


>Winter blankets and clothing are defeatism.

>> No.41011132

>>They had a fairly complex legal system.
So did everyone in the middle ages. This video helps to spell it out a little.


>> No.41011178

I'd call declaring war on Russia at all a mistake. He should have just tied loose ends up in the west before going for Russia, the chance to fully focus on them maybe even with western allies was well worth risking fighting them after they completed the industrial relocation eastward.

>> No.41011221

This is one of my pet peeves lately. "Dark" means "very little written", not "everything was shit".
>Only 5% of all Vikings actually went out pillaging.
It's more like "Viking" is like calling America "Marines".

"History isn't always written by the winners, but when it's written by the losers, they're *really* bitter about the winners"

A lot of the Eddas involved law and legalism. Although, it's also important to note that it was all written after their time period, so it's kind of like taking Shakespeare as a source on Scottish History. Archeology is good for this, but it's also important to note that archeology has it's own problems.

Ultimately we may never get a full picture of how things used to be, but it's a damned sure bet that modern pop culture gets it wrong.

>> No.41011298

>Only 5% of all Vikings actually went out pillaging.

Actually "Viking" is an umbrella term for the different northern people that went out to pillage, colonize and trade. All vikings did that but not all northern europeans were vikings.

>> No.41011324

>Attack Russia after the relocation
Why would they wait? It's pretty much over when the Soviets move everything out of the Nazi's reach. Their best chance was to attack early and gut the Soviet's capabilities before the inevitable happened.

>> No.41011329

Norsemen were extremely litigious. You were far more likely to get a lawsuit than an axe to the face.

>> No.41011364

Gib mone

I repot u to Thane


>> No.41011369

The Roman Empire in the West fell, shattering into a handful of wild, unlawful, technologically regressive barbarian kingdoms who had nothing to do with Constantinople.

>> No.41011405

>There were no black people in Dark Ages/Middle Ages/Renaissance Europe, so you can't have People of Color in fantasy.

>> No.41011429

how exactly were they different?
>inb4 weeaboo rage

>> No.41011453

>muh people of color

Such an awkward, forced term that only a white trust fund babby could have come up with during her women's rights undergrad 1 page essay

>> No.41011459

What really pisses me off is when people act like medieval times were like people just barely survived a nuclear war.

Daily life in medieval times was just like daily life today. Mostly boring and normal without big problems. Just with different tech levels and general knowledge.

>> No.41011462

>What are Moors?
A lot of Middle ages/Renaissance people saw blacks/moors just as civilized, if heritical, as they were. it wasn't until very recently that the whole "Blacks can't be civilized" thing got started

>> No.41011463

Are you tumblrfags still mad about The Witcher 3? Just give it up already.

>> No.41011506

hilariously, most-if-not-all of the world outside of europe was going through a cultural boom or golden age at the time (and even parts of europe were still doing fine).


>> No.41011508

>it wasn't until very recently that the whole "Blacks can't be civilized" thing got started
Around 540bc, an Arab scholar wrote about how blacks were like brainless apes. It's older than western civilization.

>> No.41011532

Well, guess who taught white people all about hating black people and enslaving them?

>> No.41011533

Moors and arabs would only be in Spain and Italy, while they were not white they were also not negros and race mixing was more prevalent in these areas than pure breeds.

>> No.41011563

>People of Color
You mean "colored people", right? It's the exact same thing, you fucking racist.

>> No.41011566


>540 B.C.
>older than Western Civilization


>> No.41011596

Black nobles did travel to Europe and during the Renaissance/age of Discovery it was fashionable among nobles to hire black servants to work in their courts.

>> No.41011620

>Around 540bc, an Arab scholar
>implying arabs did anything before christ, implying arabs did anything before muhammed

Fuck off.

>> No.41011633


Not only that, but Ethiopia had a diplomatic envoy in King Henry V's court.

>> No.41011646

Older than Western Civ saying it.

>> No.41011647

They invented time.

>> No.41011652

Western culture started with Christ

>> No.41011665

Weird, I wonder if they dehumanized black people and put them into working enormous plantation systems for profit?

>> No.41011693

Probably, they're still the biggest slavers in history. They even had a military branch comprised entirely of white slaves.

In fact, Barbary Coast Arab slavers abducted an entire Cornish village one time. ISIS are taking slaves right now.

>> No.41011696


Bullshit. Western Civilization begins in Mesopotamia, Greece, and Egypt. Rome became the greatest inheritor of those separate cultures, and Europe has tried to emulate Rome since before its fall. Christianity only incidentally became involved because the Romans adopted it when it wouldn't go away.

>> No.41011709

Stop playing with people who force you to play a nigger.

>> No.41011716

You fucking retard. Sumeria = / = Arabia.

That's like saying that the fucking Norwegians perfected longbow tactics.

>> No.41011733

One thing that most people of color don't want to admit is, that African tribes practiced slavery long before the white man arrived.

>> No.41011737

Didn't Barbary Coast Arab slavers kidnap a bunch of Americans and the US Marines ended up kicking their ass?

>> No.41011742

Even that's a misnomer

It's more borne of middle ages writing/artefacts not surviving than not being present in the first place

>> No.41011755

>One thing that most people of color don't want to admit is, that African tribes practiced slavery long before the white man arrived.
Shut the fuck up you retarded cocksucking white cunt.

I can talk for myself, you fucking smegma-addicted shit faggot, and what you said is complete total fucking faggot bullshit.

>> No.41011762

Arabs don't equal Islamic people, dumbass

>> No.41011767


>all that unpatriotic talk

Sounds like someone wants to get their country LIBERATED.

>> No.41011769

Are you referring to the reason the US govt. supposedly doesn't negotiate with terrorists

>> No.41011778

Before Muhammed, the Arabs were just doing camel drive-bys. They were constantly being dominated either by the Near-East, or Persia.

>> No.41011785

Ooga booga we built the pyramids and Hannibal was black because it's all Africa.

And even then Moors weren't particularly present in most of Europe.

>> No.41011808

>hurr durr muh fanny /pol/ strawman joke hurrdie durrdie

>> No.41011815

Race (that is, skin color) is a genetic adaptation to climate. If a character is a different race than the locals, he should come from somewhere else.

>> No.41011872

barring being adopted/born to immigrants

>> No.41011882

Unlike retarded Victorian thinking, medieval people weren't retarded, and there was global trade and travel in medieval days, in ancient days, even in prehistoric days.

There are British tribal leaders from the stone age buried with necklaces made from African seashells. You know, those tiny little seashells that you need like hundreds for to make a necklace.

People from 200,000 years ago were just as smart as we are today.

If we can travel around, they could travel around. The difference is just how fast you can travel.

>> No.41011884

I'm not talking about African tribes selling slaves, that did not happen. However when one tribe conquered another, the losing tribe was forced into servitude by the winning tribe. That is a form of slavery, and it was practiced before the arrival of white men into Africa. Not liking history doesn't make it false.

>> No.41011903

The modern great wall of China was built in the Ming dynasty, during the Mongol invasion of China, the great wall was not in use and in awful conditions.

>> No.41011907


I'm going to bet you can't even guess what country I'm from, let alone what it's actually called.

>> No.41011922

Moors weren't black and the misunderstanding seems to come from the same roots as the silly idea that Carthage or the ancient Egyptians were black.

>> No.41011929

>People of Color

Please kill yourself.


Berbers and semites are tanned caucasians. If you're looking at any contemporary drawings of moors/arabs by arabs you'll see they're all depicted as white skinned.

>> No.41011940

Moors were Arab rape babies left in Africa you fucking dumbass

>> No.41011955

>If you disagree with retarded afrocentrists you're /pol/

This is why everyone hates you. Not because of racism or because nazis or conservatives or republicans or whatever scapegoat you can come up with. It's cause you're retarded.

>> No.41011963

Againcourt and Crecy had nearly nothing to do with longbows; people with bows just happened to be there like in every other army.

>> No.41011988

They NEEDED to take Russia. Europe didn't nearly have the raw materials needed to maintain the German war effort and import from overseas was shot down by Allied ships/aircraft.

>> No.41011992

Egyptians were not black or white, fuck you Kings of Exodus and fuck you National Geographic.

>> No.41011996

>French knights slaughtered by longbowmen after trying to charge up the hill they were shooting from
>Nothing to do with bows

>> No.41012020

>yes let's attack a gigantic nation which we couldn't possibly occupy with our small forces and they reside in extremely harsh climate/environment which none of our troops are used to!

>> No.41012025

Neither were iranians. Fuck, the iranians were whiter than contemporary greeks. Yet they were sub-saharan africans in 300.

>> No.41012037

Most cultures practiced slavery in some form

Fun fact, when whites took slaves they mostly stayed on the coast and bought them from the natives, the natives were the ones raiding the interior of Africa

Another fun fact, the naive Africans that sold the slaves to the Europeans were under the impression that the Europeans were cannibals and they were selling people to them as food

>> No.41012075

>the naive Africans that sold the slaves to the Europeans were under the impression that the Europeans were cannibals and they were selling people to them as food
Fucking really?

>> No.41012078

>>I can talk for myself
>Muh slavery
>Gimme money for dem programs
Yeah, we've heard you

>> No.41012080

>Small forces
>Couldn't possibly occupy

The entire Axis (Including Romania and Finland) were on it. Stalin didn't finish modernizing his army and he had grave losses due to inexperienced generals. They were doing a fine job occupying shit but Hitler kept insisting on making grandiose but retarded decisions for the sake of a glorious war.

>> No.41012097

They were
And it didn't.

They were stabbed and hacked to death in melee by those bowmen.

And that's the ones that didn't drown, mired in the mud, or get trampled or otherwise friendly-fired.

Againcourt and Crecy were examples of why incompetent commanders and bad weather can fucking ruin an army. They ARE good lessons to be learned, but not about what all those "manyshot" fans like to pretend.

>> No.41012104

You forgot to call his dick small, Tyrone.

>> No.41012112

Also, unlike the Brits like to claim the longbow wasn't some kind of medieval weapon of mass-destruction.

>> No.41012132

No, the ones doing the melee hacking were the british knights holding the line at the base of the hill(s) while the welsh-bong longbowmen were pelting the french with arrows.

>> No.41012164

Actually it's used by a lot of black people. It's a term that basically means "non-whites" but has a connotation of "black people... and also all those other non-white ethnicities you don't care about".

Also, OP here, holy fuck I just wanted to learn about historical inaccuracies people make in "history" inspired fiction, Jesus fucking Christ you people will turn anything into bitching about Tumblr, won't you?

>> No.41012180

And the Soviets still had more men than they did. The Soviets were also used to winter, brought all the right winter equipment.

>> No.41012182

>I'm sure the economic fallout from pushing an unsustainable country way past its limits is going to be kinder.

>> No.41012207

Well this thread had potential to be interesting until it turned it to Shithead v. Retard Fight #48.

>> No.41012214

At least there's a story implied there, even if it's just "Great Grandpa was a traveling merchant from far Kanoonga who had a way with the ladies."

>> No.41012226

Week, I remember seeing something once about how native Americans constructed a large dirt mound the size of a building using dirt from all over America, which is a pretty massive undertaking and is way more advanced than most people usually consider them.

>> No.41012240

>Kings of Exodus
Speaking of the Pharaoh, we don't have any fucking clue who was supposed to be the Pharaoh when the Jews left Egypt for sandier pastures.

It probably wasn't Ramses, though. Prince of Egypt lied to you.

(Also, the Egyptians had a funny little thing where the ruling class alternated between some pale-skinned folks and some darker-skinned ones. Quote the wiki:
>When the lighter ancient Egyptians were in power, they called the darker group "the evil race of Ish". When the darker ancient Egyptians were in power, they called the lighter group "the pale, degraded race of Arvad".
God damn does that sound like something straight out of Fantasy literature.)

>> No.41012246

The Romanians and Hungarians were saving their best troops for each other. The finns had claims on what they lost in the winter war. Nobody but the Germans was in for a drive against the Soviet union but they were forced to send troops.

>> No.41012260

>, brought all the right winter equipment.

ahahahahahanot really, soviet authorities were as brutal to their own men as the wehrmacht's were indifferent to theirs.

>> No.41012285

The native americans are an interesting topic, actually - some of the first explorers thought that their bodies were physical perfection and stuff! Meanwhile, the native americans thought the europeans were sickly and frail. The Black Plague did a number on Europe.

Then again, smallpox.

I'll need to track down the book I found on that. It was pretty interesting.

>> No.41012286

Goodness you are a pleasant fellow aren't you.

>> No.41012297

>Any kind of equipment

Lmao. Only reason they won was cause they had a billion mongoloids from central asia to drown axis tank threads in.

>> No.41012318


You are completely disregarding the power of russian nationalism. There were no need to be brutal against those who were eager to fight. The recruits from the european part of soviet union really wanted to take revenge. Only an idiot would think Stalins commissars were forcing people to avange their dead family members.

>> No.41012329

He is, the snowniggers were always niggers.

>> No.41012335

>best troops
>implying they had any units worth a damn.

>> No.41012354

I don't know, anon. Snowniggers had laws, were obsessed with cleanness, were good in a fight and took oaths very seriously. All of those being decidedly non-black traits.

>> No.41012362

You would do yourself a favor to pick up a history book.

>> No.41012392

They were mercenary pederasts.

They were also firstly mounted armored archers. Swordsmanship wasn't really what made them so great.

>> No.41012398

well this thread could have been interesting before /pol/ showed up.

>> No.41012399


That would be the most motorized formations, with most germant equipment and with the least amount of despised minorities in them.

>> No.41012425

Hilariously wrong!
> Accounts of the battle describe the French engaging the English men-at-arms before being rushed from the sides by the longbowmen as the mêlée developed
>The mud also increased the ability of the much more lightly armoured archers to join in hand-to-hand fighting against the French men-at-arms.

The conditions were so HORRIBLE for the french knights (doesn't help that those in charge didn't like the 'foreign' crossbowmen and separated them from their pavises before forcing the knights to run through their formations - yes, in the fucking mud) that while the arrows caused some chaos, most of the deaths were shit like drowning from exhaustion (after several days of forced marching) in the mud, being stabbed to death despite your heavy armor by archers in melee, and being crushed under your own fucking people.

>> No.41012434

What despised minorities? Pretty sure neither romanians nor hungarians used gypsies as soldiers.

>> No.41012447

Weren't they kicked out because they were fucking gypsy bastards? Like, foraging, fucking the local economy, being general assholes and eventually having to rewrite why it was they actually left egypt?

>> No.41012451

There is also the thing about sailing over the Atlantic, which probably wasn't the easiest journey, filled with food and drink and good life.

>> No.41012466

They were still laughably underequipped.

>> No.41012474

found the tumblr

>> No.41012490

Also their pyramids were built by trained guildsmen.

>> No.41012504

>linking to a John "May Mays" "Sex is like Cheerios" "Why is breakfast food breakfast food?" Green

>> No.41012522

>all moors were either berbers or semites
There were high-class arabs, subsaharan slaves and a lot of mixed people all throughout the ranks.

Also, prolly some black caucasoids from East Africa.

>> No.41012554

Okay I'm not sure what you're trying to say there. Your "sentence" doesn't quite make sense. Unfortunately there's two separate places where I could put a full stop so it makes sense, but both make it mean something quite different from the other.

I'm afraid you're going to have to clarify

>> No.41012568

Who had better health insurance than the average American today.

>> No.41012574

Explain yourself. I'm curious to know what you're talking about and how it invalidates anything said by John Green.

>> No.41012593

The great wall of China we see today was built during the Ming dynasty, the Ming dynasty came after the Mongol Yuan dynasty and the Ming dynasty defeated the Mongols several times during it's reign.

The great wall during the era of Mongol invasion into China was not in active use and it was not repaired, the wall itself was in poor condition.

>> No.41012604

And America is pretty much an oversized 3rd world shithole.

>> No.41012619

>I can talk for myself
No you can't.

>> No.41012620

I'm pretty sure that, outside jewish texts, there's no actual record of them ever even BEING in Egypt.

>> No.41012623

Th-thanks, Obama

>> No.41012651


Not all Samurai were 'HONOLABRU' bushido-crazed zealots who literally sliced tanks in half with their main weapons: Master-forged Katanas folded 9001+ times that RORORO'd in the face of Vibranium and the plate armour worn by 15th century Western European Knights.

In battles, most logical samurai preferred to use polearms such as the yari and naginata; using those short swords of theirs meant that they'd be begging to be poked to death by spear-wielding ashigaru too far away for a katana slice in half yet alone reach. Alternatively, quite a lot of samurai preferred to use bows. When the ashigaru started toting arquebuses, plenty of Samurai became MLG noscopers and began using guns despite it not being as 'honorabru' as traditional weapons used before the Europeans came to Nippon.

>> No.41012665

Only the non-white areas.

>> No.41012673

There are heiroglyphic frezes that support the idea that at some point a bunch of slaves left Egypt.

>> No.41012682

Also bushido was HEAVILY influenced by Chinese Neo-Confucianism.

Modern day depictions of shamefurr dispray honor of warrior heart of yamato bullshit was made up by the Japanese government during the 19th and early 20th century to drum up military nationalism.

>> No.41012683

>In battles, most logical samurai preferred to use polearms

They were horse archers you retard.

>> No.41012685

>hurr durr afrocentrists

There you go strawmanning again, you retarded /pol/ cunt.

>> No.41012694

They were shields designed to be breakable or whatever. It was just about breaking the opponent's shields. Holmgang.

>> No.41012701


>> No.41012705

He does have a mild point, if we strip out the political sentiments: There were plenty of darker skinned people, including blacks in all of those eras in Europe. They were just fairly uncommon. Single digit percentages or lower. That still means that you probably saw or met one if you traveled through say, 3 villages. You'd definitely see a couple if you went to any of the cities.

Acting like there are NO black or brown people in the Middle Ages is kind of dumb.

Personally, I was a fan of learning how, in the beginning, women handled all the trade. Because "trade" was really just your wife walking around, talking to the other wives, and setting up deals.

If you were a tailor, for instance, your wife would come home with some vegetables, and the shirt of the guy down the street that needed mending in exchange for them. Or she'd tell you that the family down the lane needed a dress for a girl, and they were going to fix the leaky roof for us.

>> No.41012710

Maybe? All I know is that they probably weren't as many as the Bible says that they were, since you'd figure that the Egyptians would mention something if 600,000 people just up and left.

Also something about it being a metaphorical numerological number I think. It's been a while since I read up on this.

>> No.41012724

>Accusing someone of strawmanning
>While saying they're from /pol/

>> No.41012745

>Acting like there are NO black or brown people in the Middle Ages is kind of dumb.

It was not a normal sight. Ever. Did it exist? Yes. But it was as rare as someone winning the lottery.

>> No.41012759


I don't know. Taking Moscow didn't win the war for Napoleon and I don't think it would have won the war for Hitler. Not to mention that the easier terrain, better weather, and more accessible resources are all in the south.

And that if you ignore Kiev, you open the door for a counterattack, or even just air raids at Ploesti from that platform, which can cause you to lose the war real quick if they disrupt the oil supply. Honestly, turning back to Moscow at all was probably the mistake, not focusing on it.


How exactly would he have "Tied loose ends up"? Your u-boats are okay for annoyance value, but aren't capable of delivering a firm blockade, most of the Atlantic route is coverable by their planes and not yours anyway, you don't have the sealift to really invade Britain in any kind of meaningful timetable, and you can't really pack in more troops to North Africa given your logistical constraints.

>> No.41012784

is this the new thing /pol/ does? where as soon as anyone recognizes them for being /pol/ they freak out and accuse everyone of strawmanning?

>> No.41012792

Why IS breakfast food breakfast food?

Iunno, he's socially conscious, active on tumblr, an internet celebrity, and a children's author. What ~possible~ reasons could 4chan have for hating him?

>> No.41012822

Knights were also mercenary pedarasts, soooo.

>> No.41012827

>Iunno, he's socially conscious, active on tumblr, an internet celebrity, and a children's author. What ~possible~ reasons could 4chan have for hating him?

I figured there was something specific. Also I've seen his videos linked here countless times without causing trouble.

>> No.41012829

>That still means that you probably saw or met one if you traveled through say, 3 villages
I very much doubt you'd see this outside of MAYBE Italy and Iberia.

>> No.41012835

I like to fit in, anon.

>> No.41012852

>Why IS breakfast food breakfast food?
mostly because its either dense to sit in your stomach for a long time or packed with calories and stuff to get you through the day

>> No.41012853

I don't know, I don't go to /pol/. I've been racist on 4chan since before /new/ got created.

>> No.41012876

No, "colored people" just means the goddamned blacks. "People of color" encompasses them and also the beaners, camel jockies, curry munchers, zipperheads, basically all the people I hate.

>> No.41012898

Not at all that rare. You wouldn't freak out seeing someone with black skin, the way some African children do seeing white people. Or like the Japanese.

Not everywhere is Britain, thank God.

Oh, really? Huh, I figured I was taking a gamble by linking it. Frankly I don't go in for the "I was only pretending to be retarded... but I don't actually say retard because my cousin is..." attitude of 4chan.

>> No.41012922

What does Britain have to do with anything? Without Iberia and Italy you still have a lot of Europe that isn't Britain..

>> No.41012929

Ease of preparation is another factor. Frying up an egg is one of the easiest bits of cooking you can do, which is ideal when you're just waking up.

>> No.41012945

Looks like a case anglocentrism to me.

>> No.41012948

>They were horse archers you retard.
Both of you are fucking retards who clearly don't have a fucking clue what the word "samurai" actually ment and how their role as well as prefered combat strategies changed around several time through out their history. Neither of you should be pretending like you know jack squat about the actual historical context of the role they played.

Seriously, it seems like there is not a single fucking person in this thread actually knowing the basics.

Here is an interesting thing:
In the second half of the Edo period, vast majority of samurais were actually BUREAUCRATS who rarely, if ever, actually saw any kind of combat duty.

So at least fucking recognize WHICH era you are fucking talking about. Because the samurai class was pretty much relevant since 7th century to the very end of 19-fucking-th century. That is a good fucking starting point.

>> No.41012952

But black isn't a color.

>> No.41012979

I don't see that at all. I'm not British either.

>> No.41012992

Yes, it was all that rare. Unless you went to a seaside trading hub and saw an arab/turk merchant with his black slaves, you wouldn't see them in your lifetime.

>> No.41012998

Not necessarily. Taking Moscow would have been a blow to the Soviets, but it wouldn't have knocked them out of the war. Meanwhile there's an entire Russian army in the Ukraine that can attack your flanks from the south.

It might have worked, but at the same time the war might have ended in 1942 with half the German army surrounded in Russia.

>> No.41013016

You should know that being a colonial mutt doesn't stop you from being an anglo.

>> No.41013041

Where are you getting this shit from

>> No.41013078

Different guy here, didn't the Samurai also go through a period of being really big on the uasage of early firearms?

>> No.41013081

Light and pigment work the exact opposite. More pigment means black; zero light means white.

>> No.41013187

the blog medievalpoc is not a good source of history, anon.

>> No.41013227

You probably already knows this, but like half the armor types in D&D are just something Gygax pulled out of his ass.

"Studded leather", yeah right.

And then there's the obvious stuff regarding how swords aren't the überweapon and shields are something you probably want to have, which is the exact opposite of what Hollywood wants you to believe because those make for bad cinematography. The same goes for wearing armor without a helmet, obviously.

Also, the Mongols were surprisingly hands-off with how they ruled over territories they conquered. They mostly just asked for taxes and told you not to stir up shit, or else they'll kill you and everyone you know and love.

There's reason to believe that the Jews used to be polytheistic back in the day.

65 million years is a long time, but so is the 135 million year period that dinosaurs existed for. Putting a T-Rex next to a Human would be more historically accurate than putting a T-Rex next to a Stegosaurus. (Both are incorrect, but one is more wrong than the other.)

>> No.41013233

"Really big" is not the phrase I would chose but since the introduction of fire arms was critical to transformation of the whole warfare, guns were used commonly and samurai were the majority of the actual SOLDIERS present on the battfield, yeah, knowing how to use them was a fucking standard, at least at certain periods. It digressed a lot later on, as a period of 300 years of nearly NO FUCKING WARS for them to fight in - which was incidentally the same period in which carrying a katana and knowing at least superficially how to use it became not only a standard, but actually required by laws and thus absolutely omnipresent among the samurai class. Which leads us to another interesting point - katana is A) not a medieval weapon, but a fairly modern one and the "standard" form of it we know today has only been established around the 16th century, and B) a personal defensive weapon used in small scale on-foot conflicts, brawls or dueling, not an actual battle-intended one. You carried it so you could respond when somebody insulted you and you were obliged to retaliate, or tried to murder you, both of which were pretty much the only larger conflicts the samurai would get into through out the Edo period, sans the occasional peasant uprising or clan war. In which case, fire-arms and horseback combat were mainly the name of the game.

>> No.41013253

Then you're forgetting what the role of Arabs and Moors were in medieval Europe: traders and merchants. Sure, they weren't common, but you'd find one who was up from Spain, or France, or Italy to hawk something.

England probably wouldn't have seen many, but the rest of Europe would have.

Here's a comparison: In the year 1200, Paris was the largest city North of the Alps, with a population of 50,000.

In 1224, The settlement of Lucera was created for Moors being forced from Maraza. 20,000 of them.

Moors were a large presence in the Iberian peninsula for 700 years, literally ruling the region. They ruled a port city in Italy for 400 years, the aforementioned Mazara.

They were known traders and merchants, as well as raiders.

I'd guess, given their wide-spread nature, and the duration of their rules, that the average Northern European met 1 or 2 in their lifetime. The average Western European probably met a handful. Of course, IN their regions, they were pretty damn ubiquitous.

Hence you probably would meet one on the European mainland if you traveled for 3 or so villages, if only because he was traveling through one of them as well.

>> No.41013259

>"Studded leather", yeah right.

This is supposed to be brigadine, but Gygax was retarded and didn't do his research.

>> No.41013296

Wasn't that katana based off of the longer, more sharply curved sabers that did see regular-ish battlefield use? I recall hearing mention that there were laws put in place limiting the lengths of swords, that necessitated their shortening into the katana.

>> No.41013317

Arabs and moors are not black, and especially not "pocs". They're just as swarthy as the average spaniard and the contemporary jew/assyria/what have you. The fucking turks were darker skinned than them.

>> No.41013324

"Slavic barbarians" were in certain ways much nore civilized than Europe in the Middle Ages. They are still more civilized in certain ways

>> No.41013328


>> No.41013336

Whether there were or weren't people of colour in the Dark Ages/Middle Ages/Renaissance Europe doesn't really matter when you're playing a game with elves and dragons and >>41013227 studded leather.

The only thing you need to excuse black people in a setting is a country for people who's ethnicity and phenotypes are different (and not even that, since elves live alongside humans and orcs and halflings).

>> No.41013374

If your setting is trying to be somewhat historically accurate and you have your stereotypical knights riding around in plate armour, you should probably also have firearms.

What's up with fantasy settings and a stark refusal to include firearms of any sort, anyway?

>> No.41013375

>England probably wouldn't have seen many, but the rest of Europe would have.
You fucking kidding me? You think Iberian and Apenin peninsula were "rest of the fucking Europe? Dude, if you think a Moors ever made it north of the fucking alps more times than one could count on the fingers of one hand, you really have some pretty twisted idea of how travelling at the time fucking worked.

Moors were in Spain. Maybe, very, VERY, EXTREMELY rarely they would made it to southern France before being lynched to fucking death, and a handful of them probably could be found in all ports around the Inland Sea, and that is fucking it.
Here is something that the stupid Robin Hood movie taught you poorly: Muslims would not be allowed to travel Christian lands unless with a SPECIAL protection of some very, very powerful figure. Arabian or Moorish traders did NOT travel around Europe for fucking trade. Nobody would fucking touch anything they carry.

>> No.41013400

Why are there hardly any Asians in fantasy works then?

>> No.41013402

That's a bit specific but they certainly used african slaves, arab slave trade was pretty fucking big.

>> No.41013403

I don't see that being the case for your average northern European or most non-urban people. Why would people from North Africa be that commonly travelling through bumfuck villages in Germany or Sweden?

Italy, Spain, Portugal and to a lesser extent France at least have a history with the Moors but I barely see it for the average French person or most of the rest of Europe.

>> No.41013410

And a lot of generals currently portrayed as 'ninja' were samurai who used unconventional tactics.

But they make better anime characters with ninja abilities, so who cares.

>> No.41013425

>muh dragons muh magic

It's the little things, m8. You have to have some suspension of disbelief.

>> No.41013433

>What's up with fantasy settings and a stark refusal to include firearms of any sort, anyway?
Its' the romantic notion that melee combat was more honourable and civilized than firearms where anyone can "just point and shoot".

>> No.41013446

What if my fantasy world has no niggers? Fuck you this is fantasy don't tell us what to do

>> No.41013470

Obviously they're hunting dragons and elves while wearing studded leather. Do try to keep up.

>> No.41013473

no, the new thing 4chan does is accuse anyone who doesn't act like a liberal of being from /pol/

>> No.41013477

Zero Light is black, faggot.

>> No.41013480

But peasant weapons like bows are romanticised in fantasy settings.

>> No.41013492

Based Moors saving us from the knife-eared menace

>> No.41013496

Bows are actually considered weapons of aristocracy in some cultures because it took years to train someone how to use one

>> No.41013498

Yeah. While slavery had been a thing in Africa pretty much forever, the scale of chattel slavery practiced in America and other European colonies was completely unlike what they were used to. They Europeans were shipping thousands of slaves to the colonies and they seemed to constantly need more. The explanation many people figured for this was that they were using the slaves as food.

>> No.41013504

>Wasn't that katana based off of the longer, more sharply curved sabers that did see regular-ish battlefield use?
Katana was one of the natural evolutions of the older forms of blades. It's hard to pin-point what it evolved from exactly, and frankly it's difficult to establish any kind of clear terminology, because despite what we hope for, it was never clear and unified across the land.

But most commonly it was assumed that Katana evolved from an older sword most commonly refered to as "tachi". Which was a lot similar. As a general rule of thumbs, it seems that with decreased frequency of wars, the swords that the Japanese Samurai used got gradually shorter, and less curved. One of the presumed predecesors of katana was refered to most commonly as tachi, and it was indeed longer and more curved blade, as inteded to be possibly used more efficiently from horse-back.

With the 300 years of "peace", opportunities for horse-back combat nearly dissapeared, and the lenght of the blade became a disadvantage. I'm not sure what is with the curvature.

Suprisingly enough, the one trait that we use to identify sword "decisively" as "katana" is not the lenght, or the curvature of the blade though, but rather the way it's intended to be carried.
Katana was carried "blade up", that is the sharp side of the blade was facing upwards when sheathed, while the dull side was facing downwards.
This allowed for the blade to be unsheathed extremely quickly. An absolutely useless feature in a battle, but very useful in personal combat where honestly, the moment of surprise was more important than anything else.

>> No.41013505

Also, early firearms tend to invite mechanical complexity that RPG designers are uncomfortable with. Balancing a matchlock firearm around the fact it has huge load times, and then including mechanics to convey the fact you're trying to load an explosive implement that has a burning slow match attached to it is enough to cause some serious headaches.

>> No.41013512

People who bitch about black people in fantasy on grounds of 'historical inaccuracy' make me want to shoot myself.

Read a fucking book you racist shits.

>> No.41013518

What the fuck have you done, anon?

>> No.41013550

Still Moors are not negros, they are olive skinned and those in europe would be mutts and not pure moors. Blacks in mainland medieval europe is something so extraordinary that you can probably count them in your hands.

>> No.41013555

He said something retarded.

>> No.41013561

I think it's more that melee combat is just more interesting.

Plus the firearms at the time were dumb and boring. But then again so were most bows...

Anglocentricism, duh.

>honestly don't know if troll because of the current political climate of 4chan
But if you can suspend your disbelief for dragons you can suspend it for black people and women and gays.

Derp, can't edit 4chan posts, you know what I meant.

>> No.41013563

Well maybe a separate idea of How Could Hitler Have Tied Up Loose Ends?
I'll bite with North Africa. The logistical constraints were self - inflicted. The Germans' supply line was dangerously overextended as Rommel kept pushing forward. IIRC I think his tendency to overextend was how Montgomery beat him at either El Alamein or Tobruk....One of the two....
Soooooo what if Rommel/Hitler just chilled for a bit, consolidated North Africa supply lines and won the Desert War? Basically cancels out the invasion of Greece and Italy, maybe more control in the Mediterranean and Italy stays in the Axis?
Definitely changes the whole outlook in Europe.
Guys have any other ideas for 'Tying Up Loose Ends'

>> No.41013566

Importance is on the some. Most cultures held bows as weapons of the peasantry. It does not take years and years to train with them; the exception being very powerful longbows. Peasants who hunted could use them fine. they were not used as sniper rifles as they were inaccurate so they'd be fired in volleys.

>> No.41013571

>The explanation many people figured for this was that they were using the slaves as food.
Fucking kek

>> No.41013573

>Wanting consistency and historical accuracy makes you racist
>Wanting media to stop pushing sub-saharan africans into medieval british fantasy or into moor/jewish/persian/egyptean roles is racist

Yeah, whatever anon.

>> No.41013594

The ancient Egyptians were black depending on which era you're talking about, that is like four thousand years of history there.

>> No.41013597

By the way, concerning slavery. In Murrica it wasn't exclusively black. White slaves were also "a thing", and they were treated much worse than black slaves - because they were temporary slaves, and their masters wanted to get as much as they could during their term. Many didn't survive to the end. There were also stories of white slaves who, upon coming to America, would enslave and sell their masters, and run away with the money.

>> No.41013610

>Political climate

It's like you want your opinion invalidated.


>Magic excuses inconsistent rules and people acting like they live in an average american city

>> No.41013614

No book I've read about medieval European society mentions a predominate black influence.

>> No.41013615

>they were not used as sniper rifles as they were inaccurate so they'd be fired in volleys.

>It does not take years and years to train with them

There's your contradiction.

Mongol aristocracy were raised to use bows, they HAD to be decent sharpshooters, it's what sets an elite Mongol warrior from your average herdsman.

And many East Asian, Central Asian, West Asian cultures were either similar to the Mongols, or influenced by the Mongols on their stance towards bows.

>> No.41013627

>Magic excuses inconsistent rules and people acting like they live in an average american city

Well, I'd say the fact it's a different world and not the European middle ages is a better excuse.

>> No.41013632

It depends on the setting really. If it takes itself seriously as realistic/historical setting + dragons or whatever, it doesn't really make sense for women to be riding around openly as knights, gays to be getting married or for some archetypical not-northern Europe setting being full of various types of Africans, Asians, Native Americans and other kinds of Europeans..

But if the setting doesn't take it itself seriously in that regard there is no need to take it seriously.

>> No.41013634

>medieval british fantasy
See, that's the thing. It's fantasy. You've already got a world that's historically inaccurate to begin with. You've probably got a world filled with anchronistics.
When you make your stand at "no blacks" but don't care about the portrayal of plate armour, knights, castles, feudalism, or anything like that, yeah, it's racist.

>> No.41013639



Kill yourself.

>> No.41013642

>black Guinevere in Merlin
>black Friar Tuck in Robin Hood

Th-thanks British Cuckistan

>> No.41013655


>not black, and especially not people of color

You...just claimed that a superset was not part of a subset.

People of color means "NOT WHITE". You can be a person of color and be not black.

Secondarily, don't say Arab and Moor like they're interchangeable. Moors refers to any of the Northern or Western African entities

Here's a tapestry of Moors made in 1283, aka, the exact fucking time period we're discussing.

>made it to southern france before being Lynched.

Except that lynching wasn't a common thing in europe, and surprise, one of the earliest moor colonies in Europe was in France. They even have a mountain range still called the Mountains of the Moors because they lived there.

And you seem to have a flawed understanding of how religious fervor changed over time. Most of the time, the Church didn't really care about Muslims, until it decided it did.

Consider also that the 12th century and 13th century saw the rise of St Maurice, Patron Saint of: alpine troops; armies; armorers; Burgundians; the Carolingian dynasty; Austria; clothmakers; cramps; dyers; gout; House of Savoy; infantrymen; Lombards; Merovingians; Piedmont, Italy; Pontifical Swiss Guards; Saint-Maurice-en-Valais; St. Moritz; Sardinia; soldiers; Stadtsulza, Germany; swordsmiths; weavers; AND THE HOLY ROMAN EMPERORS. was commonly being depicted as a BLACK AFRICAN.

Which would be a WEIRD THING for the CATHOLIC CHURCH to do, if no one knew what a fucking BLACK AFRICAN was.

>> No.41013657

>historical accuracy
>in fantasy

Do you see the problem yet?

>> No.41013659

You mean the Nubian pharaohs or something else?

>> No.41013662

Actually it was the scholars whose books Gygax used as sources who made those mistakes. Hewitt, Stone, and Ashdown. All of whom were considered legitimate authorities on the subject in the early 20th century and whose work was widely quoted.

Granted, books existed that corrected those mistakes long before D&D was written, Blair's "European Armour" was published in 1958. But it's entirely plausible that he simply never had the chance to consult them. Medieval arms and armor is a niche subject, most of the books written on it have a small print run, and Gygax was an insurance underwriter in rural Wisconsin, not a history professor at Oxford or Cambridge; he was pretty limited to what was available at his local libraries.

That was what the world was like pre-internet, Cunningham's Law wasn't in effect and entire generations could go their lives believing wrong shit without ever hearing a correction.

>> No.41013666

I don't make my stand at no blacks, I want "blacks where it makes sense within the setting's rules to be blacks".

>> No.41013670




>> No.41013672

>The explanation many people figured for this was that they were using the slaves as food.
Africans to this day can't comprehend the concept of economies of scale

>> No.41013683

>The finns had claims on what they lost in the winter war
Finland actually did make a push into the Soviet territory during the continuation war, and there was a lot of propaganda and talk among the politicians and military leaders about establishing the "Great-Finland" and pushing the Russians beyond the Urals. I practice, while intially pushing past the former borders, the attack was very quickly ground to a halt by the superiour number of Soviet forces and the Finnish forces were pushed back, losing most of the land they had reconquered and forced to accept some very harsh peace terms, including losing significant amount of area, including what was at the time the 2nd or 3rd largest city in the country, to the Soviets.

We still haven't gotten that land back, by the way. My family from both of my parents' sides used to live in Karelia, but now it's a shithole the Russians barely even do anythign with. Although, really, I'd rather wish we'd get Petchanka back. Karelia is economically worthless, while Petchanka has some major mines.

>> No.41013685

>Black Merlin and black Sir Galahad in the upcoming movie

>> No.41013688

I'm aware of the turko-mongolic steppe people's use of the bows. Most fantasies however reflect European society and culture.

>> No.41013693



>> No.41013695

>That was what the world was like pre-internet, Cunningham's Law wasn't in effect and entire generations could go their lives believing wrong shit without ever hearing a correction.

I've heard this exact fucking quote on /tg/ so many times, you won't fucking believe.

>> No.41013702

Curvature came from when it was made

>> No.41013704


The thing is though, the biggest problem Rommel had (logistics wise) was transport: You've got no railroads running east out of Tripoli, and you're losing some 30-50% of your fuel just shipping fuel to the front, if you go by Keegan's estimates anyway.

Short of importing entire construction crews to build a railroad from Tripoli to Tobruk, which would take years if not decades, it's really, really hard to do much to make the supply situation better. "Sitting and chilling" sin't really going to help, and even if you stockpile a ton of ammunition and fuel in Cyrenica, getting it forward is going to be damn, damn tough.
Oh, and there were defeats at both El Alamein and Tobruk (Operation crusader). I don't remember if Montgomery was in charge during Crusader, but there were 2 Rommel losses because of over-extension.

>> No.41013717


>> No.41013722

>Importance is on the some. Most cultures held bows as weapons of the peasantry.
I actually don't know a single culture that would consider bows to be the weapon of peasantry. And peasants did not hunt. Do you even know what the word "peasant" means?

Seriously, bows were associated with higher social status in nearly ALL societies. In medieval continental Europe, bow, as a hunting tool, was actually largelly associeted with nobility. Because, and this is yet another thing nobody seemed to teach you poor people, only nobility and VERY FEW other selected individuals were allowed to hunt. In fact, this was something the nobility was EXTREMELY sensitive about.
In UK, longbows were a symbol of "free men", which was basically the highest social cast among the clan organized societies. In Japan, bows were one of the "holy trinity", the three weapons all samurais were required to master still WELL after the introduction of gunpoweder, and pretty much forbidden for anybody else to use. Hunting ban actually applied to everyone there, even the samurai class though.
Among central asian societies, such as Huns and Mongolians, bows were a symbol of a proffesional warrior, once again a high social rank, relatively speaking. In China, archery was actually considered one of the six Noble Arts and a bow was LITERALLY a symbol of a philosopher at time.

So really, I don't think you have the faintest clue of what you are talking about.

>> No.41013733

>When you make your stand at "no blacks" but don't care about the portrayal of plate armour, knights, castles, feudalism, or anything like that, yeah, it's racist.

lmao are you so cucked by california liberals you really think this

>> No.41013738



>> No.41013755

Do you know what willing suspension of disbelief is?

>> No.41013767

Huh. I've posted it like, seven or eight times, depending on how many times you've seen it it may have been me each one.

I think it's a point anons really don't recognize enough.

>> No.41013779

I-I enjoy historical play pretend but it's fun to spice it up with some fantasy

>> No.41013795



>> No.41013799


>Katanas were generally shit-tier weapons

They had a soft core, but a hardened edge. This meant that there was no structure to keep the sword from bending upon high-impact blows, and their edge - when damaged - would have to be ground down deeper and more shallow just to repair it. Additionally they were quite thick, causing them to need to part a lot more material on each single cut. This requires much higher levels of strength, and puts far greater strain on the weapon. Lastly, Katanas were generally two-handed weapons due to their length. This meant shields were almost impossible to wield with them, thus lowering your protection. While they can be wielded one-handed, this is a very difficult act. Additionally their curved blade makes draw-cuts very powerful, but upon armored opponents you do not want a draw-cut as this means you must slice through metal, wood, boiled leather, chain, flesh, and bone. That is a lot to part, especially with a thick blade. No, against armored opponents you generally wanted piercing strikes. But the curved blade made this extremely difficult to do. Hence the reason authentic Katanas were only owned by wealthy nobles, were dedicated in shrines, or were placed in temples

>They were a symbol of status, not a weapon of war

>> No.41013804

Fuck off retard. England/Wales is the main exception in Europe. We're not talking about sport either we're talking about warfare. Why would a noble waste his time with a bow that anyone can use when he has access to a horse, good armour, a sword and lance?

>> No.41013810

There is so much fucking wrong with what you said that I have to wonder if you are a troll, or if you actually seriously fell for the medievalpoc shit.

Either way, I don't have the patience for this bullshit, but let me tell you this: please, PLEASE stay away from a historian or any person with at least common knowledge of history. For your own sake, as well as the well being and sanity of the others.
Because this is embarrasing, and painful, and I have long since lost the fucking will to deal with people like you anymore.

>> No.41013814

At least Morgana was a smoking hot piece of ass. I can't blame Merlin for really dragging his feet with killing that bitch.

Also, I was impressed how they killed off Marian in Robin Hood, and with how they turned Guy of Gisborne into a fucking rockstar (and his sister was insanely hot). The series was mostly terrible, but it did get better over time.

>> No.41013818

>When you make your stand at "no blacks" but don't care about the portrayal of plate armour, knights, castles, feudalism, or anything like that, yeah, it's racist.

Nigger, don't even get me started on my autistic frustration over typical high fantasy armour.

>> No.41013841

It just boggles the mind how fucking stupid you people are. It really, really does. I would expect this shit from /v/, but around here it get's really kind disturbing.
You really don't have a clue, right? Got the idea that bow was a peasant weapon from videogames.

>> No.41013844

This, so much this. If there's a specific black peoples with their own unique society in a fantasy that's great. However injecting them into a European themed group for diversity is not.

>> No.41013869

>bows are peasant weapons in video games
That's fucking rich mate. In video games bows are all powerful sniper rifles used only by specially trained snowflakes.

>> No.41013870

>"vikings were lawyers"
My favourite part in Njala is still when Gunnar's lawyer realises he's been tricked, so he marches to the parliament with his spear and throws it right through the opposing lawyer.

>> No.41013881

>What do people get wrong all the fucking time.


People can't even get the 'now' correct.

Some people fawn over how some series or movies are "historically correct" but fact is that the film makers just use a certain historical period as a theme or setting in which their story takes place.

Everything that happened after 1720-ish is generally reasonable accurate in costumes and such both often fail to capture the spirit of the time.

>> No.41013883


>> No.41013884


Also, not only did dinosaurs have feathers but it has been proven recently that they were most likely very brightly colored. In fact, carnitine, the same chemical used in bird beaks that create some of their wild coloring patterns, has been theorized to be in dinosaurs. This is due to deep grooves found in the large plated bones of dinosaurs. These same deep grooves only occur in one other creature - birds. These grooves in birds supple immense amounts of blood, and carnitine, to the surface which allows them to form the hard, brightly colored beaks, talons, and skin on their legs.

If this is true, dinosaurs were probably less earth-toned and more rainbow-toned.

>> No.41013885

>tfw no tabletop setting will ever do African fantasy as well as Guild Wars Nightfall

>> No.41013887

It is completely reasonable to be upset about importing/shoving west/east africans into fantasy, especially nowdays, since it's happening at an alarmingly fast rate.

Imagine if it was the reverse. Imagine you were playing an fantasy african game (lel) and then one of your players decided to create an east slav. Everyone at the table would be miffed. But no, for some reason, it's only acceptable when you interject them in white fantasy and if you disagree, you're racist.

>> No.41013896

Reason to belive? negro did you not read the bible its literally "there are no other gods before me," various other low level gods, hell before the exile (babylon one), biblical history was
"you should workship god"
"no you shut up phropet"
*israel is fucked*

and so on.

>> No.41013907

What movie is that and is it worth watching?

>> No.41013922

Barry Lyndon



It's Kubrick bro, always worth watching.

>> No.41013925

>hur ur dumb
>doesn't prove how

Pretty fucking weak, brah, and I'm on your side.

>> No.41013930

>(and his sister was insanely hot)

Jesus Christ my dick

>> No.41013944

>When you make your stand at "no blacks" but don't care about the portrayal of plate armour, knights, castles, feudalism, or anything like that, yeah, it's racist.
No, because not depicting black people is not racist. Depicting black people as inherently inferior, stupid etc... that would be racist. Including them for as a an act of token "recognition" out of the sheer fear of the backlash of the black community would actually be racist.

Nobody has any moral obligation to depict black people. Or white people. Or ANY ACTUAL OTHER REAL ETHNICITY in a piece of ostentative and admited fiction.

I have no fucking clue where you people ever got the idea that this would be a moral obligation. If anything, it's one fucking unheathy obsession over fucking skin color. Literally practicing the same logic that makes racism bad to begin with.

And if you haven't figured out this: you are a shitty person. If you think random people owe you something based on your skin color, you are a shitty person. You already failed at getting the NUMBER ONE RULE of not being a shitty person.

>> No.41013955

The same book you quote includes references to a goddess whom the Israelites worshipped at the time.

>> No.41013957

some people are so stupid/indoctrinated all you can do is identify the cancer and apply chemo

>> No.41013959

That's fair. But I think you're underestimating production capabilities. Years and decades to produce train tracks? I dunno man. The Nazis built those indestructible sub pens in France that had mind-numbing amounts of cement with ridiculous engineering problems in a very short time. I'm sure they could have found a way to deal with an overstretched supply line?
Also I'm pretty sure Monty was in charge then. He was much vaunted for turning Rommel around

>> No.41014011


>> No.41014018

yep, being in cathloic school for god 18 years, I read the bible, wayy too much, (even the boring books of lists of begat and begat, and all of Lev (god why is this holy its literally a fucking HOW 2 MORAL circa bronze era.

actually we had a bunch of random white people show up pre Britian, it was quite odd (they were according to the records I was digging up lost traders who's ship was blown around the horn by a hurricane), its pretty easy because the currents pre reliable proplution will drag you in all sorts of places. Try again.

>> No.41014025

I'm not arguing with people who don't have even the most rudimentary understanding of the subject matter. If nine years of basic education is failed to give them basic idea of things like how what was the social and ideological organization of medieval societies like, there is nothing I'm going to do here.

Pick up a book. An ACTUAL book, not an article by the medievalpoc guy wrote. Because that is a guy who sincerely believes NOT being a historian, in fact not having any kind of formal training on the subject matter makes him more right.
Anything byÉcole des Annales would be a nice starter. Or even better yet: you people need to get off your fat pathetic assess, go to an ACTUAL HISTORY DEPARTMENT and start asking questions there.

People who actually believe this shit are lost.

>> No.41014028

The thing about adventurers is that they're adventurous people who go on adventures.

Take Conan. A big muscly dark haired northerner, but he travelled to just about every corner of the world, and ended up king of a country where he was very much a foreigner. The start of his origin story was literally "the Cimmerians were no fun, so I ran off to raid with Vikings".

No reason some African tribe wouldn't have its own Conan equivalent, he'd just be a very exceptional individual. You know, like the ones that get to be PCs.

>> No.41014029

I'm so sick of this fucking thinking.
>it's fantasy so no rules apply just throw everything out of the goddamn window

>> No.41014041


Years or decades to build a roughly 1,300 km long railroad in contested territory where you'd have to ship everything across a loose blockade?

I don't think that's unreasonable at all.

>> No.41014044



>> No.41014048

Hey guys what's happening in this threa....

>> No.41014052

put it this way, the US was able to do this and we had outright genocide (Wrt railroads and native americans), and this railroad would be bombed/hit by local partisans and other foes.

>> No.41014086

I am but a humble second generation west African, but my family through luck happened to be some of the first to make official first contact with the British, so I have way too many old forms and historical books I am looking through since my grandma died and gave me a bunch.

>> No.41014093

the result of dumbocrat "everyones a winner" political correctness

thanks obungler

>> No.41014099

That is Saint Maurice you fucking moron. From the Theban legion story?

>> No.41014130

Thanks to you faggots I'm going to make my next game completely racially Asian. Slant eyed yellow skinned motherfuckers only.

But culturally they will be a variety of European, Arabic and African. 4 U

>> No.41014135

u fuckin kidding me,the dude in that pic's not even english

>> No.41014142

Why is there so much hate?

>implying East Asians are the only type
>being this hateful.

>> No.41014149

where in west africa?

>> No.41014155

>racial Asian
>culturally European

Just make a campaign based in Finland.

>> No.41014156


Historical revisionists plz go.

>> No.41014167

Is this Ariana Grande's great great grandfather?

>> No.41014176

So you're making a setting based on finland?

>> No.41014180

I remember reading in a history book that they sold them to slavers as well.

>> No.41014194

Finns don't look like this though

>> No.41014203


>> No.41014212

I want /int/ to leave.

>> No.41014217

West of east Africa.

>> No.41014223

That's exactly what they look like.

>> No.41014233


>> No.41014242

no,i mean what country,ghana?nigeria?sierra leone?

>> No.41014243

New york?

>> No.41014244

Can you load a handgonne in three seconds? No?Okay then, it's boring.

Jesus Christ I hope this meme dies an ignominious death.

What exactly do you feel is necessary for "blacks where it makes sense within the setting's rules to be blacks"? What if one of the setting's rules is that skin colour has more variations? I mean, in Skyrim I can be a dark skinned Breton. And even a pretty light skinned Redguard.

How about fuck you I'm going to play a darkie just to piss you off?

I was more pointing out that people use that as an excuse for stuff that's pretty historically inaccurate to begin with. "No guns, this is historically accurate D&D".

>> No.41014253

You remeber correctly. In fact, virtually all black africans distributed by the British slavers were BOUGHT from other black Africans. European slavers did not go to Africa to hunt for slaves, they came in to trade for them. And they offered very desired commodities for them, actually completely destabilizing the regions by creating such a huge demand for them and fueling massive clan wars.

>> No.41014258


>> No.41014262

large nation with a problem of jungle Kebab, we need to remove boko haram, etc..

African style slavery while not ideal is not like mass slavery.

>> No.41014274

>What exactly do you feel is necessary for "blacks where it makes sense within the setting's rules to be blacks"
for one,not making them african-americans that have simply been tacked on for no reason

>> No.41014276


The U.S. didn't have to transport its materials over contested waters, and the risk of native guerilla attack is of a far lesser magnitude than a conventional British army raiding through Cyrenica as you're trying to advance this railroad. Who aren't just going to be disrupting your forces and harassing: If a British armor column throws you back, they're going to tear up the entire track until they stop.

>> No.41014277

cuck cuck cuck

>> No.41014284

>being this much of a cuck

>> No.41014285

fuck off libtard, haven't you got a campaign to abort confederate guns in schools to sing kum by yahs at

>> No.41014290


>> No.41014297

PDFanon, is this you?

>> No.41014308

To be fair to them, the type of slavery practiced in the colonies simply did not, and had never existed in Africa. They way slavery typically worked there was that if two tribes or whatever go to war, the winner keeps prisioners taken as slaves or exchanges them for a ransom. Alternatively, a person charged of a crime can be forced to slavery as a punishment. Either way, you rarely had people enslave people specifically to get workers. Rather it was more of a case of having prisioners and getting some use out of them by either making them work in doing the shitty jobs nobody wanted, or selling them to somebody else who needed workers.

The system practiced in America, on the other hand, had large-scale plantations that relied exclusively on slaves for hard labour, and thus required a steady supply of slaves to replace old ones and to work in new plantations. Such a system would have been unfamiliar to the Africans, who only knew that the Europeans were clearly doing something different with their slaves. It isn't that suprising that it would lead to horror storis of evil European cannibals purchasing slaves to ship them off to Europe to be eaten (most Africans also assumed the slaves were headed to Europe, since while they were obviously aware of Europe existing, the idea of somebody crossing the entire Atlantic by boat, on regular basis none the less, seemed practically impossible).

>> No.41014322

coincidentally,that's where i'm from
also,boko haram operate on the edge of the sahara,the jungles(or what's left of them) are in the south

>> No.41014350

>Can you load a handgonne in three seconds? No?Okay then, it's boring.
Jesus Christ, do you have ADHD?

>> No.41014351

>What exactly do you feel is necessary for "blacks where it makes sense within the setting's rules to be blacks"? What if one of the setting's rules is that skin colour has more variations? I mean, in Skyrim I can be a dark skinned Breton. And even a pretty light skinned Redguard.

First, no basketball americans. Second, if it's a setting with more races, put the darkies in the hot place of the earth (Cause, you know, melanin). 3. Bretons and Redguard are right next to eachother, so mixing occurred. In fact, I am not bothered at all by Redguards in TES (Even though they're based on moors and moors weren't black). TES is a setting where the rules say that anything can fucking happen. But most other settings aren't.

>> No.41014355

IF....flak 88s were hugely useful at dealing with armour. I'm pretty sure they could have looked after themselves in conventional ground warfare.
I have to concede the disputed waters part. German naval presence in the Med was shit

>> No.41014363

fuck you, dont summon him to other threads. we already have to deal with him in our own.

>> No.41014372

Pretty sure he's already here. I can feel it.

>> No.41014376

I want to use my expertise in drones and other advanced technologies to remove them from the jungles so we can stabilize the economy (and we need non generator alternatives, that fuel shortage was an embarrassment.

>> No.41014398

The difference is that there are black people playing "Medieval European" settings, but very few white people playing Fantasy African settings. Mostly because all the fantasy African settings are made by white people. Even then, white people can expect to be dominant in any "historical" setting or at least feel comfortable in them. White people and Asians also sometimes see themselves the same because the skin tones are closer (Google "why are anime characters white"), even though in Anime whenever they do draw Euroes or Americans, they look a lot different (sidenote: They also tend to draw Chinese characters as darker and with the squinty eyes) so white people are more able to relate to those things, too.

Darker skinned people don't get someone to relate to through play; They're also 17% of the total population of most game's target demographic (let's be honest, most games are American by volume).

So there's plenty of reason to ignore "historical accuracy" in your fantasy Europe.

Pathfinder actually does this pretty well, since Golarion has multiple human races and ethnicities, and they all actually interact with each other, as opposed to the usual fantasy fiction invisible walls keeping every race in their individual zones.

>> No.41014417

I'm not a metallurgist so this means nothing to me. I don't even know how you'd manage to get some of those patterns.

>> No.41014424

Why does my petend have to be demographically accurate. Accurate specifically to US demographics that is.

>> No.41014429

>People who don't want African Americans in their European FANTASY games.

>Literal autism.

>> No.41014433

"My tribe were no fun, so I ran off to be a Viking" is perfectly legitimate.

>> No.41014435

Revisionist historian

Thinks military history is pointless

Thinks giving rulers the title "The Great" is sexist

>> No.41014447

If they want representation, why don't they write fantasy for themselves instead of liberals whining at whites to shove blacks in.

>> No.41014472


>Thinks giving rulers the title "The Great" is sexist

What about Catherine?

>> No.41014476

Why are you so absolutely obsessed with race? Why do you assume all people relate with their characters rather than projecting through them? You do realise you can relate with a character of another face do you not?

>> No.41014481

>Thinks giving rulers the title "The Great" is sexist

I know that he's a massive revisionist that can't help shitting on europeans to the point where the video about the renaissance was almost entirely about islam but I didn't think he was THAT retarded.

Can you tell me the context and/or the full thing he said?

>> No.41014490

"My grandfather thought his tribe was no fun, so he ran off to be a Viking" works too.

>> No.41014508

What a crock, the idea that Africans can't into mass slavery. What about Barbary? Over a million white people are carried off into slavery in Africa and the Middle East, where those hard core Arabs fucking CASTRATED their slaves, and yet most people have never even heard of it.

Damn Arabs must have had the right idea, given there aren't a bunch of italians and Spanish jumping up and down screaming about needing mo money for dem programs in the Emirates. Wouldn't that just make ISIS' day? Bunch of fucking Romans screaming every time one of their latin-speaking marble-bunnies gets shot resisting arrest?

>> No.41014513

just two more posts until this garbage thread dies, yo

>> No.41014516

9/10, to make the game play in a person's way. If they want bikini armor, it'd be "LOL IT'S JUST FANTASY", but say something like "Martials should match casters" and you'll get "WHOA THAT'S UNREALISTIC, why woul da guy swinging his sword be as strong as a guy bending reality"

In this thread, you can see it happening, people being triggered by non-whites in a Fantasy series.

>> No.41014522

>Hurr durr people didnt like her and said she fucked horses

>> No.41014524


>> No.41014534


Because by ancestory, they got a fuck ton of European in them.

>> No.41014544


>only my sources, and not thousands of direct sources from the era, and other work, count
>I will insult people because I think they're stupid, regardless of their actual education level, especially since I'm too fucking stupid to know how many years of standard education children receive.

Seriously, there's fucking evidence supporting the other guy's side. Maybe you should try providing some.

>> No.41014545

Majority of nigs hate traditional games or any geeky hobby which they define as 'faggy nerd shit', they're all about rap, hip hop, dressing like ghetto cartoon characters, dancing and 'muh diking' women of other races and what not.

So is it really the fault of the game creators for not including people who want NO participation in games, and HATE people who do play the games? (I can't tell you enough times about how the kids that play D&D or Magic were excessively bullied by the blacks in highschool)

>> No.41014554

Based on this thread, and online sessions, people are more likely to bitch and moan about non-whites in fantasy medieval games, than the other way around.

They do...and then people bitch about it. That's literally this thread.

>Black person in fantasy series.

WAAAAAAAAH SJW, le epic cuk meme, etc.

>> No.41014564

>people being triggered by non-whites in a Fantasy series.

Good job twisting things into your favor you fucking retard. But no, I won't let that slide. It's not about being triggered about non-whites in fantasy series, it's about being triggered by token non-whites where they don't make any god damn sense to exist.

>> No.41014577

You know, you're the only one who brings up MidievalPOC and the guy you're arguing with even provided and actual picture of black people in contemporary art.

This is /tg/. Get it out.
No, seriously, I want to write a story about a squire flirting with his knight for the /wst/ and fill it with just a ludicrous amount of detail, so I'm going to be refreshing my knowledge about swords and barding and armour. So lay it on me.

What? A lot of the time ranged weapons are for your weak ass healers to be useful when they aren't waiting for someone to get a booboo. In games like Skyrim, sure, a bow is a hyperefficient instrument of death, but usually they're plinking off of enemies who can only be beaten by a good sound thrashing with a silly looking sword.

They were lawyers, but badass about it.

The "there are no other gods before me" generally means "don't worship the Caanite gods, fuck those guys". Although it could be argued that means the acknowledgement of them, with stuff like Daniel(?) and the Dragon, you get "they're all phonies".

>> No.41014578

Clearly you don't know how many black weeaboos exist

>> No.41014583


But when 100% West African Nigerians migrate to US or UK they do better than 80% West African 20% European basketball americans and afro-caribbeans. Shouldn't that euro ancestry make their success rates closer to europeans?

>> No.41014587

Majority of people in GENERAL hate traditional games, yes even White people. Only people who I'd say, that wouldn't insult you, and your hobby as much are Asians.

Seriously, do you get your social interaction from 4chan greentext stories?

>> No.41014591

Is D&D, Warhammer, Magic weeb now?

>> No.41014592

Like onions, layers.

Anyway, the location of metals will affect blade performance and durability and change how good they are for parrying. Some are obviously better than others.

>> No.41014625

Actually no, you stupid nigger. People don't give a shit about minorities in fantasy games. Not one shit. As long as it makes sense to the setting, I don't think anyone cares about what race your magical heroic snowflake is or what color he is or what language he speaks.

The only thing we're against is the idea that fantasy games HAVE TO, as a MORAL PREROGATIVE, include modern real world current American demographics.

If you want a fantasy setting where all the races live within spitting distance, and have trade routes, then fucking fine. But if someone says "This game takes place in King-Arthur-Europe-Land" don't fucking cry about oppression, or any other bullshit.

Ethnically near-homogenous countries were the norm for large portions of history with relatively few exceptions, because 'ethnicity' itself is just climate adaptation. Fucking deal with it.

>> No.41014637

Stalin was located in Moscow and would have been captured.
Cutting off the head would make the soviet political infighting tear itself appart.

>> No.41014638

>Make any god damn sense to exist.

Why are you so sensitive about the racial issue? I'm not going to say "LOL FANTASY, DO WHATEVER", but the fact that you seem to concentrate on this one issue, when at best, the FANTASY setting is BASED on Europe, and seem to complain about it not making sense.

Come on man, do you get this triggered when anything doesn't match real life?

>> No.41014640

Nah, because they've got a cultural history of being lazy work dodging cunts oppressed

>> No.41014641

>Bawwwwwwwww they don't like it when a black man is included in a medieval celtic fantasy setting

This is you. I bet you also bitched about the Witcher 3 not having niggers.

>> No.41014655

different anon, but no lots of black people play magic and D&D. less so warhammer, but no one should be playing warhammer anyways.

>> No.41014669

>Seriously, do you get your social interaction from 4chan greentext stories?

No, from real life.

>Majority of people in GENERAL hate traditional games, yes even White people.
Yes, but the bullying, the anti-intellectualism, the humiliation, blacks are the worst of the lot. Most whites would just passive aggressively resent it.

>Only people who I'd say, that wouldn't insult you, and your hobby as much are Asians.
You haven't met many Asian in real life, have you?

The games were created by whites, and played mostly by whites. Why is this so hard for you to understand?

>> No.41014672

there isn't enough kek for this.

I would need an orbital battlestation of top kek.

Also, American blacks we sold to you. No refunds, YOU BREAK IT YOU BUY IT.

can confim, did manage to somehow sleep through 'hard nuclear training," and qualify on time.

>> No.41014677

His Alexander the Great video

>> No.41014690

No one is bitching about opression...honestly, people in this thread seem more likely to talk about how they're being oppressed. It dosen't seem people here care aout HAVING to have black characters, more than they care about how it 'dosen't make sense'. Come on, don't try that "Lel, you're just a SJW, stop trying to change my gamez" shit with me, it's disgustingly transparent.

I play almost exlusively white characters all the time, but I'm not going to bitch and moan if someone has a black, or Indian, or other type of character in my fantasy game.

>Arguing on /v/.

>> No.41014705

Holy shit I'm only part white but this is fucking retarded.

>> No.41014708

shut the fuck up oreo ass uncle tom

>> No.41014712

You type like a retard.

>> No.41014736

>ENERAL hate traditional games, yes even White people.
>Yes, but the bullying, the anti-intellectualism, the humiliation, blacks are the worst of the lot. Most whites would just passive aggressively resent it.
>>Only people who I'd say, that wouldn't insult you, and your hobby as much are Asians.
>You haven't met many Asian in real life, have you?

Do you listen to rock music, etc creation arguments are bad and you should feel bad, and if you want to say anti intellectualism, white people are the ones not vaccinaing their children against things wiped out, while in Nigeria people will bumrush the doctors for vaccines. Should I mention things like 'crystal energy mannn" or the stealing of 'zen culture dude", I mean I could literally cherry pick the worst of white culture too, I mean the American South's anti intellectualism is so famous its a movie sterotype, the MUH FOOTBALL, MUH JESUS, NERRDD hate from some 1980s era film.

>> No.41014753

It's okay anon, the blacks can't hurt you anymore. Some just want to play a game.

>> No.41014766

Have you ever met a black person in real life?

>> No.41014778

Black Egyptians, aka Nubians, actually did build (or at least order the building of) some pyramids.

The common people were mostly the same brown through all of Egypt's history (with minorities of Nubians, Assyrians, etc who had darker and lighter skin tones), but the ruling classes changed around every so often from coups, etc, and Nubian rulers were in charge for a couple of periods.

With free beer every day!

I'm not kidding, archeological finds suggest daily beer was part of the wages.

The native americans actually had a shitload of infrastructure (though mostly in non-permanent materials like wood), but the diseases brought by the Europeans fucked them all up pretty bad and left a bunch of stuff to rot because it couldn't be maintained. In some places so many people died that the settlers could just move right in on top of an empty farming village and reuse the same plots of land.

Yeah, it was one of those things where the French would have won easily by the numbers if it hadn't been a giant series of tactical fuckups on their side all the way from the top down.

>Why would people from North Africa be that commonly travelling through bumfuck villages in Germany or Sweden?

>not knowing that European royalty often got black servants or black merchants to pose in paintings with them to make them look more worldly

It's not like there were a bajillion black people around, but they definitely existed.

Yes, this is correct.

>Genghis Zulu

I'm okay with this.

>> No.41014783

>Force token minorities into every single rulebook or splat or campaign setting.
>Include homosexual and transexuals in the same, often lovingly accepted by their home communities even though in most ancient settings they'd be ridden out of town on a rail or worse.
>Get mad at anyone for protesting this.
>Get mad at anyone who even acknowledges, in a realm of make believe, that the Brave New World we live in didn't exist until literally like 50 years ago.
>We're the problem.

Die in a hole. This is a fantasy setting, this means "People don't mind gays" and "People burn gays at the stake" are equally likely. Fucking deal with it. If someone wants their setting to have zero niggers as a purely aesthetic choice, then fuck it there are no niggers. Its not a racist sentiment, its just how the setting is.

No one cares if you're a race that exists in the setting and plays it well. I've had black characters in my games. I've had most ethnicity in my games. As long as it makes sense, no one cares. Just don't force it down everyone's throats if it doesn't make sense, or just to act as though social progress has been made because there's more 'representation' of a race in a setting that has nothing to do with them.

>> No.41014807

>Not racist
"I didn't actually think about whether or not there would be black people in this setting, it isn't something I thought about"

The problem isn't that "an African" could do all that, it's that in most people's fantasy worlds the only thing that exists is this tiny little "ALBION" that's only fantasy England.

But people are already throwing rules out the window re: arms and armour and generally everything else. Flipping out over dark skinned characters showing up in fantastical settings that barely pay lip service to history is ridiculous and dumb. Getting mad that Guenevere is black in something as historically inaccurate as Merlin is stupid. Even if Guenevere was white as snow that show would still be historically inaccurate.

The thing about slavery among Africans is that it wasn't nearly as bad as the chattel slavery that the Europeans practiced. It's easier to treat someone like shit when they don't look like you. It's honestly a toss up whether America or Brazil had it worse. In America it was literal Chattel Slavery, where you were treated like cattle and your children were raised into slavery.
In Brazil it was ATATATATATATA you are already dead

>> No.41014814

>Just don't force it down everyone's throats if it doesn't make sense

>using the SHOVE IT DOWN OUR THROATS foxnews language

Just saying, that doesn't really help your argument.

Anyway, the point isn't to say that there should be some huge number of black, asian, whatever people in a setting modeled after Europe, but rather that even in historically modeled settings they should exist as minorities, and the people who say ONLY WHITE PEOPLE ALLOWED BECAUSE HISTORY are stupid.

>> No.41014834

>only my sources, and not thousands of direct sources from the era, and other work, count
I've worked in five different archives. I've read more chronicles, local histories, legal documentations and matrikas than I could ever remeber. Before that, I studied history for seven years.

Can you name a single actual DIRECT SOURCE you had read, please?

There is no evidence. If you would go and read the fucking medievalpoc, the american far-left activist with no actual historical education trying to lecture Europeans on their history, "the other guy" is quoting, by the way deliberately to feed on the recent shitty "The Witcher 3 is racist controversy" exclusively, you would actually find out that they don't have any evidence either. The list of primary sources is exclusively focused on African history, and contains no solid sources on European one, and the rest of the argumentation is based on SHEER MISINTERPRETATION of objects of visual arts. Plus a few mindboggingly incorrect statements from some really obscure discredited authors.
Even the statements that other guy made are factually false. First Moor colony in Europe was Al Andalus, which is in Spain, not France, and the "Moor Mountains" (Massif des Maures), which is DEEP in southern France has nothing to do with Maurs as people. It's simple homonymy between the term Maure, meaning "brown", and the fact that it has nothing to do with Maurs as the specific socio-cultural historical group is taught in every french fucking elementary schools.
To quote wiki article on this subject:
Le terme maure « brun, foncé, sombre » est commun en provençal comme en ancien français ; on peut l'observer dans la toponymie des Montmaur, qui ne doivent évidemment rien aux Maures, et des anthroponymes Maurel, Morin, etc.

The guy is actually either a MASSIVE troll or quite literally a brainwashed and mentally damaged person. And you can go and FUCK YOURSELF WITH A RAKE for actually taking his side on this.

>> No.41014855

>You know, you're the only one who brings up MidievalPOC and the guy you're arguing with even provided and actual picture of black people in contemporary art.
Yes, a figure from a legend from 3rd century AD. And the guy is quoting the blog wholesome, including some of it's most nepharious BULLSHIT that literally no other author ever dared to utter. If you can't fucking spot the pattern your fucking loss.

>> No.41014860

becuase we consume mostly western materials and fantasy, who kinda forget about the chinks and their kin. pretty stupid IMO, I'd love to play a deep Indian jungle campaign

>> No.41014874

Are you French Canadian or something, because while my French is rusty it would explain why your English goes all CAPSLOCK ANGRY like someone getting mad in League of Legends or another cancer MOBA.

>> No.41014878

1. Only some of the time do they exist as minorities. Some countries really didn't have people of [insert race here] during [insert year here], and since the fantasy country is based on the real country, people stick with that.

2. No they aren't stupid, because often history was like that. The people who are stupid are the people who talk about 'representation', and the need for 'representation'. Its like, who gives a fuck if there's no blacks in X setting? I don't play a game set in ancient mesoamerica or modern day Japan and go "Damn, where's all the white people at?"

>> No.41014887

>Witcher 3

The dumbest part of the arguments about it is that the Witcher books actually have a sizeable minority of black people in the background, including ones who get used as viewpoint characters a couple of times.

So the people who say "the Witcher should be lily-white forever because MUH POLAND" don't even know anything about the actual Polish books it's based on.

>> No.41014907

Then their world is laughably tiny and homogenous.

>> No.41014919

>who gives a fuck if there's no blacks in X setting?

Generally speaking, non-white people care if the setting is based on history where non-white people actually existed, because white people have a long history of writing non-white people out of history.

>> No.41014923

You know it, motherfucker
I made the damned thread and you fuckers ruined it.

Most games don't have combat that takes place over minutes. Unless you're playing a game post-Westward Expansion, firearms aren't going to be as interesting because they take forever to reload and were generally cumbersome and time consuming. I can see why most fantasy games leave them out instead of giving complex rules about how many turns it takes.
Although if you're doing something like Golden Age of Sail then by all means your character should sit in the crow's nest with twelve rifles pre-loaded. That shit is awesome.

"Great Grandfather thought his tribe was no fun, so he ran off to be a Viking" might work.

>> No.41014925

Oh? Also shocked they have never been translated if the Witcher games exploded from "eh some random Eastern European RPG" to "THE BEST CRPG EVER, KILLS BIOWARE DEAD".

>> No.41014957

The first Witcher game does have a foreign guy who ethnically seems to have been an Arab or at least some sort of MENA

>> No.41014962

Care to actually show me anyone who says that? And by the way, that is still not racist. It's fucking assholish, sure, but not racist. Nothing among what he is saying implies that people of one skin color are inherently inferior to people of other skin color. It just makes the person clearly an insecure twat acting defensively where a completely rational formulation would well suffice.
Though, on the other hand, I think such reaction is understandable if it's a reaction to being accused of being racist SIMPLY on the fact that his setting did not feature any black people. Because that is an incredibly annoying thing to do.

>> No.41014978

Why are you trying to push me into the group of people you hate? Why do you keep trying to just make me tumblr(or more specifically SJW), in your replies? You're aware, listen to me carefully. I don't need to be a SJW, a Redditor, a nigger, a spik, a cuck or a liberal to find what you're doing retarded, right? Anyway, let's just get that out of the way, also I never said you were racist. Stop trying to put words into my mouth to fit whatever mindset you have.

Yes, they're both likely, and we both know that. The setting can be only whites, or only blacks, or only midgets. Whatever, it's up to the person writing it. I'm mostly annoyed by the fact you keep saying "doesn't make any sense", it's in a setting where it would make sense. Yes, there were black people even in Europe. Were they common? No. But the fact, you care so much about race, that you exclude it completely makes me think the issue is deeper than just freedom to exclude, or include race. I mean, you even brought up racism, when I never called you a racist of any kind.

>> No.41015002

Could you be so kind as to go back to your /wodg/ cesspool?

>> No.41015034

I don't remember the name of it, but there's a nation in the setting that's a chunk a majority-Black empire from a different world that got transported there because of weird magic stuff.

From what I understand, this is because the books' author doesn't really care about TRADITIONAL POLAND (despite that being the argument people keep using in regards to the game), and basically writes a 'modern'/'scifi' setting with fantasy aesthetics. Racism issues of assorted kinds, transhumanism, magic substituting for some technology, etc.

>> No.41015089

It basically just says "the term comes from old French maure "meaning brown or dark" is a common local name in old french topology, and there is no relation to the "Maures" as an anthroponomic term (eg. the term refering the human group "Maures").

And you people have no excuse to be this fucking stupid. That is why I'm mad. This is seriously the lack of awareness of most basic fucking historical knowledge.

And that is something that you should actually be terrified off. I am. I see you clueless fuckfaces here and I'm terrified of what will happen to people when they are so UTTERLY WRONG about the most basic facts of their own history and that terrifies me. And anger is a natural, if not exactly ideal reaction to common fear of having to share my own culture potentially with people as dangerously and criminally stupid and ignorant as you are.

>So the people who say "the Witcher should be lily-white forever because MUH POLAND" don't even know anything about the actual Polish books it's based on.
NOBODY. EVER. SAID THAT. That argument was specifically designed and put into mouth of any opponents by the mongoloid who wrote that polygon article.

>> No.41015103


I've seen people arguing that on the interwebs.

Even on the rpg.net forums of all places, and that's SJW central.

>> No.41015143

Considering they were the biggest slavers in history, probably, yeah. Who do you think sold the slaves to the American South? Because who are we kidding, thats the only part of the history of slavery you give a shit about. Lets just ignore the thousands of years of every other civilization using slaves and lets focus on America because that's all that matters right? "But muh modern racism." Travel the world a bit, America is the most open and accepting society you'll find. We've got problems, some of the most heinous racist shit I've ever heard came from third world fuckers. Saudi Arabia only banned slavery in their cities like in the 80s. Fuck off and go outside your bubble. Its a weird world.

>> No.41015146

>If you don't like something, change it
>People complain when you change it
Do you just think there are no black people writing games? Do you think no white game designers see their black friends and think "I should put some black folks in my game"? Why is everything your liberal boogeyman?

All history is revisionist. He doesn't think military history is pointless, he thinks that it's overemphasized. Great Man history is inherently problematic because it invalidates the contributions that lead to the so called Great Men being so Great.
>What about Catherine?
Bitch needs to stop flirting with me and give me the Uranium or she's gonna see my Great Generals.

Because studies have shown that representation of people who look like you in media leads to higher agency. Also that negative representation leads to negative cultural assumptions.

Why do people always assume it's "token" non-whites?
>This is a fantasy setting, this means "People don't mind gays" and "People burn gays at the stake" are equally likely.
Then why are you upset that it doesn't match your opinion?

>> No.41015194

>Because studies have shown that representation of people who look like you in media leads to higher agency. Also that negative representation leads to negative cultural assumptions.

Blacks already do that to themselves

>> No.41015196

>People don't give a shit about minorities in fantasy games. Not one shit.
You sure seem to care an awful lot for someone who doesn't care.
>But if someone says "This game takes place in King-Arthur-Europe-Land" don't fucking cry about oppression, or any other bullshit.
If you're getting upset that there are black people but not upset that people look more like traditional knights as opposed to tribal barbarians...
>Ethnicity is just a climate adaption
Haha, what?

>> No.41015205

Historical knowledge isn't basic, nor is this my history. I am an American, not some Frenchie.

Science matters more, as we will have to deal with massive climate change and use our minds to either reverse it, adapt to it ala cybernetics/human mind uploads, or just leave Earth if we fuck it up hard enough.

>> No.41015270

Most of the time people make characters that look nothing like themselves.

>> No.41015328

>Historical knowledge isn't basic, nor is this my history. I am an American, not some Frenchie.
I'm slavic, actually. I realize this isn't common in your country, but speaking at least two other languages is technically a requirement for anyone passing a highschool here - not everyone who can read French is a frenchie.

>Science matters more, as we will have to deal with massive climate change and use our minds to either reverse it
This is such a fucking load of bullshit it makes my skin crawl. God I really hope you Americans will go back into isolacionalism again. And you probably will. History suggests that, and history is rarely wrong.

>> No.41015346

please stop you're making the rest of us look bad

>> No.41015357

He wasn't a slave, he was a servant to an Italian Jesuit. The "Important Warlord" was none other than Nobunaga himself, and after Nobunaga died, Yasuke and his son went on the run and when they were caught were sent back to the Europeans.

>> No.41015382

No, Yasuke fought in battle protecting Nobunaga and died. He was buried in Japan.

>> No.41015427

Why do you keep linking random shit on youtube? Also, why are you still here on 4chan? This is not a very tranny friendly place.

>> No.41015433

I speak Latin, and its too late, we can't Soviet-kun. We have too many global military bases, we defend Fredom, and after all, without us, the world would be under Russian control, I mean thanks to Putin, Nato will never die now, and global US alliances will be a thing. Enjoy your new multipolar world, with the US on the West and China on the east.

(also, I could remark about how with trade, America can't go back into isolationism, because we have too much invested in foreign countries, so we will always have to interact with the outside, or how the military has its own internal infrastructure, etc.

>> No.41015452

Besides, a random buthurt Putin fan should get off of the American website, and go back to shilling against Ukraine or something, or at least work for the professional paid trolls.

>> No.41015473

>From what I understand, this is because the books' author doesn't really care about TRADITIONAL POLAND
You'd think all the weird Lovecraft stuff would give that away. It's Polish, sure, but only in that it's traditional fantasy stories by way of Poland's weirdness.
Yes they have. For fucks sake you were saying it up thread. You also keep bringing up medievalpoc, which is a site I at this point now want to go view and take as fact just because you screaming and shouting.

You live in a weird world where increasing the target audience is bad for business?
Also it's practically a cliche at this point that black people love DBZ and YuGiOh.

>>not knowing that European royalty often got black servants or black merchants to pose in paintings with them to make them look more worldly
Origins of the "Black Best Friend For Photos"?

Yeah, but people still try to shove the "only Albion exists, muh tolkien didn't have niggers" thing down everyone's throats.

All up and down this thread, including some of the ones up the reply chain from that very post. "THERE ARE NO NIGGERS IN MY SETTING" is right out of one of the posts.
And yes, I'd say that's still pretty racist.


I don't think I've ever played with anyone who didn't make a character that didn't look like themselves except for people playing Asians (that might as well be white with Asian names based on their descriptions and animu art).

Yeah, I noticed the inconsistencies when I posted it.

I keep linking relevant shit on Youtube. And 4chan isn't a friendly place at all. Less so in recent years where everyone feels it's a game to see who can be the biggest dumbass.

>> No.41015487

Middle East and North Africa

>> No.41015498

>DBZ and YuGiOh.

Is D&D or Magic Jap you dumb fuck?

>> No.41015537

>And yes, I'd say that's still pretty racist.

Why are you complaining about racism on 4chan?

>Yeah, but people still try to shove the "only Albion exists, muh tolkien didn't have niggers" thing down everyone's throats.

There are no niggers in Tolkien, stop projecting.

>> No.41015545


>everyone feels it's a game to see who can be the biggest dumbass.

And you seem to be winning.

>> No.41015559

>the southern tribes who allied with Saruon against Gondor
did you not read the books

>> No.41015560

dude you can stop now,i don't need anyone to get offended on my behalf

>> No.41015573

>I speak Latin, and its too late, we can't Soviet-kun.
First of all, you already do. Second of all, is the "the only slavs we know about are Russians" part of some gag making fun of how Americans don't know shit about basic geography as well?
Second of all, I was talking more about cultural isolacionism. Though we are far more in threat of the global economical collapse than an actual seriously dangerous climate change, so that actually might change too.

America is currently losing so much power and control it's actually somewhat amazing to watch. And the results of that will be catastrophical, at least for some regions - luckly for me none that should directly threaten my own existence.

But I digress, you are already pushing the point of trolling a little too hard for me, and it makes the discussion actually boring, so unless you have anything that you could seriously tell to me with a straight face while we are standing next to each other in the next post, I'm not going to acknowledge you anymore.

>> No.41015583

>Origins of the "Black Best Friend For Photos"?

That's basically what it was, yeah.

Well-known European artists would also sometimes recruit black and arab people specifically to be models as part of practicing painting different skin tones and clothing styles.

>> No.41015590

Arabs not niggers

>> No.41015593

If you won't go away, could you at least kill yourself, you worthless tranny whore? You have nothing to live for, so just end it now. Who will miss you, the youtubers you keep shilling for?

>> No.41015606

The Bible was collected from common stories and sermons in the 2nd Century CE and compiled in 212 CE at the Council of Nycae. It was literally put together by a committee of the heads of various churches through out the Roman Empire. Throw in translation errors, political motivations, changes in religious thought and doctrine over 1800 years and the Bible today would be pretty unfamiliar to the early Christians.

Thats just Christianity. Jewish history is an even longer and bigger clusterfuck with prophets advocating for either wars of expansion or individual spirituality depending on the culture and needs of the society at the time.

As for the 10 commandments, all it says is "I am the Lord, thy God, thou shall have no other gods before me." Which is a modern translation and doesn't have the same cultural conotations as the original ancient Hebrew which heavily implied that there were multiple gods but this one was the head honcho and went by his title Lord of all Gods. As monotheism became the trend, lots of things were rolled together to form the modern monotheistic Judeo-Christian god. There is also a school of thought that believes that the reason why the Judeo-Christian god seems so schizophrenic and all over the place in motivations and actions in stories is because its literally not the same god they are referencing. They just rolled all the other minor gods into the main one and popular stories were preserved by simply swapping out the names. Which has some historical backing as that's what Christians did to absorb pagans more easily.

>> No.41015666

>The Bible was collected from common stories and sermons in the 2nd Century CE and compiled in 212 CE at the Council of Nycae
that's actually a myth

>> No.41015728

the people of the extreme south of those tribes were black

>> No.41015773


Thank you, Satan, that's very neat.

>> No.41015849

I would be more concerned about the near imminent collapse of the European Union, or the collapse of global nuclear nonproflieration, since Putin shot it in the face wrt Ukraine, because the things that keep me up at night are rogue nukes and bio/nanotech (trust me on this, the shit I could make with basic college level skills and my access to materials is scary, and I'm not a terrorist. I literally could wipe everyone or at least large chunks of humanity off the Earth.

Also, if you think the US is loosing power, look at China, their population is hitting the long fabled gray bomb, (well that and the male bomb), the long term result of the one child policy reducing and stabilizing population growth. Even with their money, with the average age skyrockting (in a demographic sense) up, they won't be able to control it, it will be like Japan on a much (relatively) faster scale. Russia is having the same problem but it was worse because their population wasn't that high to begin with (and this scares me because of their nukes out in the hinterlands but this isn't my work mode so I won't talk about that).

If you think the US is loosing power than you must not be able to sleep, because Europe is done, the middle east is shit, Asia is shit, and Earth in general is doomed.

But I am a humble worker in a field that involves preparing for the worse. The one thing that scares me is Star Trek might be right (it assumes society becomes more and more authoritarian until thanks to cheap genetic modification, limited nuclear wars occur, society partially collapses, etc, and we are hitting all the markers!

>> No.41015898

It doesn't matter white, slav, asian, arab, we'll all be cucked by nigger eventually.

Nig birthrates are consistently high no matter where they live

>> No.41015936

>tfw I can't put black people in my setting in a way that fits the human origin without being racist
I want them, but the time frame just doesn't work for them to occur naturally. And what's so racist about turning white people black with magic anyway?

>> No.41015940


Stalin can leave at any time, and in 1941, his stupidity was probably Hitler's greatest ally.

There's no way they're capturing Stalin outside of dumb luck.

>> No.41015941

Uh, no. That entry is just pretty damn poorly written and misinterprets Ehmans point about the problem of "canonization" of Bible. Ehman himself, the person who build his entire career about claiming how everybody was wrong about the account of Nycae council is a bit questionable author to begin with.

The term "canonical" Bible has indeed been first used only some hundred years after the council. And it is unclear whenever or not the canonical text was refering to the same text present in the 52 bibles commisioned Constantin, but honestly, while we can say with absolute certainity is the same text, it's extremely unlikely that it's otherwise, since those were pretty much the biggest result of the council, and there wasn't enough time, or any other ecummenical council between the end of Nycae, and the infamous letter of Athanasius thirty years down the line.
They are right that the concept of Trinity was largerly discussed and resolved only around 360 too though.

>> No.41015970

>that fits the human origin without being racist

>> No.41015987

Iraq, Israel and Ukrane (also North Korea, but North Korea was a unique special case since even without nukes it holds Seoul in the south hostage, and in the north the expression in China is "20 million refugees running across the Yalu river), are examples of why nuclear nonprolifiartion is literally an idiotic idea if you are any mid grade nation, because Israel can never be fucked with again, Iraq had no nukes, and limited chemicals and was invaded, and if Iran ever gets a nuke (regardless of what the neocons say, Iran isn't an irrational actor), they will be dominaint in that region forever. Nuclear weapons at least are the ultimate form of anti big power insurance, at least until lockmart or whoever makes super advanced lasers, and even then you can still move nukes underground/via road and have them serve as very expensive land mines. ICBMs and more importantly, SLBMs are the ultimate "FUCK YOU" from beyond the national grave, and as India shows, a key part in a reliable nuclear delivery system (if you don't have SLBMs, you really don't have a decent program because a first strike can wipe you out.

Ukraine gave up huge amounts of (yes we know unavoidable nukes) in exchange for debt relief and a freedom gaurentee. Ukraine now shows that giving up nukes is a form of suicide.

>> No.41016005

unaffordable is not unavoidable!

>> No.41016039

What the fuck are you on about?

>> No.41016110

>I would be more concerned about the near imminent collapse of the European Union
Since that was a project doomed to failure from the start, that does not bother me all that much. EU is already disfunctional, and it's slow dissolution won't change that much.
Putin is an absolute cretin as a human being, but he isn't dumb enough to do something that would condemn him. Russia is a threat, and will continue to be one, but again, that is not something we did not know. We merely pretended otherwise, and Ukraine just reminded us of something we did not like to speak about.

>look at China
What you should look at is the fact that the ENTIRE political structure of the far East exists solely on the basis of American presence there. Presence that is NOT going to be there much longer. As the Americans will withdraw from Taiwan, Japan and ultimately even from Korea, that is where the real hell on earth can get unleashed. People tend to HUGELY underestimate the clusterfuck that is brewing beneath the surface there.

>The one thing that scares me is Star Trek might be right (it assumes society becomes more and more authoritarian until thanks to cheap genetic modification, limited nuclear wars occur, society partially collapses, etc, and we are hitting all the markers!
You both know absolutely nothing about history to be able to even imagine how real events unfold themselves, and live in a bubble of mostly completely fake made up problems. None of that will happen, we don't live in an american TV show. The reality is that 99% of the Earths population is - and will continue to be - completely unaffected by these issues, or if they will get affected, it will happen in a very different way than you image.

"Western culture" is in a big problem, but the problem is social, cultural, philosophical. Not climatic or technological. And even those problems, much larger than we probably imagine, will not have the dramatic kind of TV impact you probably imagine.

>> No.41016170

Black people can not occur naturally in the span of 2000 years, and I don't see them coming up naturally on the tiny island that humans originated on either.

Everyone I've asked has said it's racist to have black people just be white people turned black by magic.

>> No.41016212

>Black people can not occur naturally in the span of 2000 years
What the fuck are you on about?

>> No.41016270

Okay, listen. How about this.

Black people are part of those humans.

I'm certain just because people originated on that island, that doesn't mean that they're all alike genewise.

>> No.41016312

I'm in the bleeding edge of technology, (and the blazing edge of 1960s biological technologly.) The Us will never withdraw from Korea or Japan because the second we do those 2 nations (Japan doubly so since they can produce a nuke in a year, tops) will go nuclear faster than you can say JMSDF Yamato carrier, or Article 9. We won't leave Taiwan for similar reasons (and Taiwan would be the ideal for defensive nukes, since they have that Pakistan style scenario.).

Again, biotech is real, getting cheaper, faster, and ISIL is irrational actors and would love to just make up some Smallpox 2.0, ft ebola (and while thank god this level of bioweapons is still large nations hard, its going to large university and with advances in synthetic biology, small lab hard, and this is the shit that scares me. That Japanese terrorist group full of engineers, Aymu whoever from the 90s, they were just fucking with Sarin (and explosives if you believe the 2spooky conspiracies). ISIL guys aren't idiots and a lot of them are from the west. Imagine them making some sort of bug, or worse, some group of elitists saying "humanity has too many people,". This is the shit that I can see, not to mention cyberwarfare being outright OK (I mean we are in the first cyberwars now as we speak.).. god the IOT was a mistake.

>> No.41016379

>I'm certain just because people originated on that island, that doesn't mean that they're all alike genewise
usually,it does

>> No.41016455

Actually, they didn't need to take Russia at all. Six months before Barbarossa the Soviets and Nazis were trading counterproposals with one another over terms for the Soviet admission to the Axis. When Stalin actually played ball most of the high ranking German diplomats were extremely giddy, because it was their free ticket out of the war with massive gains, even if it would have put Germany in a weaker strategic position after victory. Why they turned the USSR down over troops in Finland and bases in Bulgaria is still a mystery, and will forever remain one.

>> No.41016490

You're literally retarded. You have no idea what you're talking about and probably couldn't tell your own ass from mRNA. Biological warfare is more complicated than you can possibly imagine and its not fucking possible to just whip up "Smallpox 2.0 ft Ebola." If you knew anything about even basic biology l, you would know that's horse shit. Disease is my god damn job and you are fucking high.

>> No.41016543

Well, he said humans originated from, meaning that chances are, he's not just having them come from the same island, but humans evolved on/from that island...or maybe magic'd there, or something.

Actually, wouldn't the people on the island be Black, if they're some sort of original human species?

>> No.41016610

If this is some sort of universe you're making up you could make human skin tone and skull structure vary the same way hair and eye colour do among some groups.

>> No.41016834


>> No.41016915

Neat. I'll keep that in mind for the future.

>> No.41016980

>I'm in the bleeding edge of technology
Ahahahaha no you aren't, but we can leave the pissing competition for later.

>The Us will never withdraw from Korea or Japan
You have already lost Taiwan when you lost the ability to push their government away from suicidal economical deals with China, and you will lose Japan in the next thirty years. Japan no longer trusts America in ANYTHING and has been systematically preparing for military independence for the past ten years, speeding up every year. And it makes sense, because the reality is that America would not lift a finger for them anymore, as once again, aptly demonstrated in the last diplomatic crisis some two years ago. Which involved largest military manuevers in Japan since the war, and explicit refusal to express support from the American officials. But I don't suppose you really realize the implications of these events.

Aum Shinrikyo and my god what the fuck are you talking about? Those whooping 12 people they killed with nerve gas? And there are no 2spooking conspiracy stories: the full account of assets secured at their facilities is publicly available. That is what you think that is the biggest fucking problem we are about to face?

You really are staying true to stereotype that Americans are clueless idiots. You are literally untouched by knowledge of... anything. This is embarrassing.

>> No.41017301

>I play almost exlusively white characters all the time, but I'm not going to bitch and moan if someone has a black, or Indian, or other type of character in my fantasy game.
Clearly you don't live in a country where the whites barely qualify as a majority anymore

>> No.41017317

Just what country is that and why should we care?

>> No.41017560

Honnouji wasn''t a battle, it was one of the best orchestrated assasinations in history

>> No.41017650


They're your defacto rulers

>> No.41017771

>Clearly you don't live in a country where the whites barely qualify as a majority anymore
>63.7% "barely qualifies" as a majority

>> No.41017921

It's a very small island.

This is what I ended up doing to appease my sensitive players, but I still hugely prefer the magic. Its way more interesting.

>> No.41018294

If I remake this thread are you people going to shit it up with /pol/ shit?

"Magic" isn't interesting, it's dumb.

>> No.41018463

Well I don't just say "magic". There's a whole story that ties in with all the human origin and everything.

Better, I think, than just saying they're black just because.

>> No.41018517

Why not just have a different God make each group of people?

Or just fully explain your mythology here.

>> No.41018576

This thread is /pol/ shit by its very nature.

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