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[ERROR] No.39011956 [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

>Paladin cannot associate with evil creatures or they fall
>Demons have evil as a subtype and are always evil because of it

Can a Paladin befriend or even marry a kindhearted demon without falling?

>> No.39011979

Oh, it's this thread again. Well, hopefully it gets filled with pictures of her massive tits.

>> No.39011994

Nope. If a demon tried being nice, it would be for the wrong reasons.

>> No.39012004

>Can a Paladin befriend or even marry a kindhearted demon without falling?


Next question.

>> No.39012014

No. But if they really love each other, why should he care?

>> No.39012020

How many of those frogman macros are there?

>> No.39012041

Not enough to stop these threads, apparently.
Have another one.

>> No.39012048

Losing his or her holy powers could be inconvenient or life-threatening depending on the context.

>> No.39012052

>kindhearted demons
Nice try hellspawn, there are no kind demons, so says the light itself!

>> No.39012068


Well, to put it in perspective, there is more frogman macros than there has been "nice demon lady wat do" threads in the entirety of /tg/ history.

>> No.39012082


Not enough.


Look son, if you're determined to marry the demon and you've got 100% confidence she's not doing this to play around, the solution is very fucking easy.


Except don't consider it falling, consider it retirement.

>> No.39012118

Righteous devotion is not just 'I'll avoid doing bad things'. It's being willing to make sacrifices in order to always do the right thing.
Sure, you might have somehow found a reformed demon girl that potentially will never betray you or lead you to perform an evil act, but you still must not waver and must make the sacrifice by refusing her. Ask not what your deity can do for you, ask what you can do for your deity.

>> No.39012134

>frogman macro
Jesus Christ, I feel like Rip Van Winkle..

>> No.39012145


This doesn't stop Paladins from marrying the attractive, motherly Cleric with cute blonde braids.

>> No.39012164




>> No.39012167

>attractive, motherly Cleric with cute blonde braids.

Yes, tell me more.

>> No.39012201

It's like Mr. Burns from the episode with the recycling plant.

They're evil, and if they try to be good they'll end up being even MORE evil.

>> No.39012204

See? A much better alternative to potentially alienating yourself from the light.

The god/ess provides!

>> No.39012208


Is it really an image macro if there's no text?

I mean, surely at that point it's just an image.

>> No.39012222

His name was Robert Paulson.

>> No.39012232

Silly anon, everyone knows this meme is called le epic sad frogman.

>> No.39012237

Macro doesn't refer to the text on the image.

>> No.39012241

Hey, at least he didn't call it a meme.

>> No.39012244

Requesting gif version.

>> No.39012248

calm down there

>> No.39012251

Isn't there a scroll that allows a person to change alignment?
...That's my fetish, and I played one once.
New thread topic: why cute cleric babes will always protect the paladins from being seduced by skanky succubi.
Or why not?

>> No.39012256

You mean the idiotic nerds that think Tolkien is the gold standard in terms of moral conflict? neckbeards are the light yes

>> No.39012288

It is not the role of the Paladin to convert. It is the role of the Paladin to smite.

If the Paladin so believes that an evil being is worthy of redemption, it is to be delivered to someone who specializes in such things, and ensure the being does not betray his/her trust.

>> No.39012296

Only oldfags will get this.

>> No.39012314

I thought it was Peter

>> No.39012334


Paladins and Clerics go together like... Chocolate and peanut butter, or peas and carrots. One's the sword arm of the divine, the other's the healing touch.

This means, thematically, clerics are ideally women while paladins are ideally men, and you know what they say about men and women who meet in churches...

As for my story, there's not much to say without going into writefaggotry about my campaign. I was playing a Paladin, we were in desperate need of a Cleric (our old one ragequit because he made a healbot and got assblasted when we treated him like one) so my Pally went to the monastery he grew up in for assistance.

Turns out his childhood friend was there (they hadn't seen each other since they were 12), they hit it off, hooked up, then got happily married. She's not in the party anymore, but at the family estate (mansions only cost 5k, thank you Paizo) taking care of their growing family (two sons and a daughter.)

>> No.39012335

Either that stall has two doors or the asshole frog is peeing on the wall.

>> No.39012346

Exactly. Some things can't become good. Not even if you blasted them with enough holy power that it should turn them good. Maybe.

>> No.39012365

Best ending.
Is he gonna retire and hand the sword off to his children before becoming the Wise Old Man?

>> No.39012369


>> No.39012372

>and you know what they say about men and women who meet in churches...
I actually don't know what they say about men and women who meet in churches.

>> No.39012389

They get married in them is my guess.

>> No.39012402

It is hypothetically possible for a demon to become good, but if it did it wouldn't be a demon anymore.
It would be a miracle.

>> No.39012413

step 1) crack open Book of Exalted Deeds
step 2) read the redeemed/redemption template
step 3) ask a cleric to redeem your waifu, you fucking weeb trash
(step 3b) spend some time thinking about how scary it is that there is a spell to literally rewrite someone's personality into being 'good.'

heck, step 4) while you still have BoED open, check out that Saint template, and some assblastingly broken prestige classes. See if you can make your GM cry literal blood tears and make the rest of the party green with envy as you find holy cop-out tricks for every last combat or moral dilemma your party ever encounters again, with your ex-demon wife by your side.

>> No.39012423

One will go crazy and murder the other before running off with another person.

>> No.39012433


>The wizard casts grease.
>The paladin slips.
>The paladin falls.

>> No.39012448

Friendly note: Not everything is or should be set in a DnD system, and even more not everything is or should be judged by the archaically retarded alignment system.
If a good creature can fall then a evil creature can fall (lift up?!)

sadly no boobs soo far

>> No.39012463

I laughed harder than I should have.

>> No.39012468


It's the ultimate icebreaker; you're both [Religion], you're in an environment that encourages happy, open discussion, and you're both single with (often) certain personality traits that make relationships happen.

>> No.39012471

But he could immediately go into Blackguard, he already fulfills the "have civil contact with an infernal" pre-req.

>> No.39012478

>Demons are always evil
I'm legitimately angry at how retarded you are.

>> No.39012491

And even if was possible, it'd have a very low success rating, wouldn't it?

>> No.39012496

>step 1) crack open Book of Exalted Deeds
I hate that fucking book so much. It convinced one of my earlier DMs that in order to be of a good alignment, you had to be a flawless saint who never has bad days and never grits their teeth and accepts the grim realities of life.

>> No.39012510

Low on a scale you'd have to calculate using limits.

>> No.39012525


It made me think of pic related.


Demons who stop being evil stop being demons, OP.

You might try all the other settings where demons can be good guys, if you want

>> No.39012529

Yes, an environment for single men and women to be introduced and begin courting is one of the rarely acknowledged but vital functions of churches as a social institution.

>> No.39012549

Also, you have an obligation to. um, spass the word down to your children... to aid those you will not reach in this lifetime.
What's better than being obligated to have lawful Good sexytimes by your god?
>You've done enough paladin-ing for now- we need you to go home and raise your children for a while. Your bro Chuck can take over for you in the meantime.

>> No.39012578

But the paladin is the Sword and Shield. He not only smites he protects, and if the evil thing shows the potential or willingness to repent their evil ways it is his obligation to foster that change.

>> No.39012585

By hypothetically, I mean as a topic for philosophers to debate.
It's hypothetically possible for all your atoms all at once to randomly translocate across the galaxy to another planet just as habitable as ours. It isn't going to happen though.

>> No.39012598

the book has horribly balanced fluff and crunch, and basically exits to be nothing more than the counterpoint for Vile Darkness, which is basically a middle school how-to guide to edginess.

That said, I actually use ED from time to time, both for cool good-aligned monsters or some of the less retarded feats and prestiges.

But if you have a GM that lets you take the Saint template, hooooo boy. Go right the fuck to town on that. It's so much fun, at least the first time you play one, to be able to look a man in the eye and say your inherent goodness has rendered you immune to his damage. If you do it more than once, you're a shitlord, though.

>> No.39012600


>If a good creature can fall then a evil creature can fall (lift up?!)

>And even if was possible, it'd have a very low success rating, wouldn't it?

Yes, D&D Outsiders from aligned plans can change alignment, because alignment require free will. But it's an incredibly rare and extraordinary occurence, and (in 5e at least) it would transform the outsider into another kind of outsider, of the relevant alignment.

>> No.39012604

Demons aren't evil in the way an orc is evil. A demon deciding to stop being evil is like you deciding to become a silicon based lifeform.

>> No.39012605

>It isn't going to happen though.
You mean it's highly unlikely

>> No.39012608

>Is he gonna retire and hand the sword off to his children before becoming the Wise Old Man?

He's adventuring to make a world where he DOESN'T have to hand the sword to his children. He wants them to live happy lives where they aren't expected to become Paladins. With the money he's raking in (and promptly sending to the estate; he's already got his end-game gear and that 40k could be better spent on the kids and neighborhood) they could grow up to be anything they want.

>> No.39012610

>He not only smites he protects, and if the evil thing feigns the potential or willingness to repent their evil ways it is his obligation to be a fucking idiot and fall for their trick hook line and sinker

>> No.39012634


It's canon that it's possible.

>> No.39012637

>> No.39012644

No, I mean it won't happen.

>> No.39012649

>and if the evil thing shows the potential or willingness to repent their evil ways it is his obligation to foster that change.

The problem here is that Demons are eternal; it's quite possible one can go "good" for a couple decades before revealing their true colors.

Besides, why go through the hassle? Clerics are cuter, more faithful, have less baggage and there's no risk of them eating your soul down the line.

>> No.39012671

>But it's an incredibly rare and extraordinary occurence
You mean around PC's it is a daily occurrence

>> No.39012678

And no one here is saying that it isn't technically possible.
It's beyond normal reckoning though.

>> No.39012683


In the same way that prisoner totally didn't do it and the whore absolutely kicked the habit.

>> No.39012686

There you have it.
They don't have free will?

>> No.39012695

Considering PCs are already beyond normal reckoning, that isn't saying much

>> No.39012705

>there's no risk of them eating your soul down the line.
Unless we're talking about one of them evil-aligned clerics. They will absolutely eat your soul if given half a chance. Or feed it to their dark patron, at least.

>> No.39012708

How do you know

>> No.39012714

>because alignment require free will.

Alignment doesn't require free will, it requires power.

Powerful beings with powerful souls can exude their influence over the land without even realizing it. This is a very common theme in fantasy since Tolkien.

>> No.39012715

Wait, is that Shinji over there?

>> No.39012722


Of course they have free will, otherwise they wouldn't have an alignment

>> No.39012726

Do your PCs fell ancient wyrms EVERY DAY? Do they kill gods EVERY DAY? How about fulfilling the ancient prophecy of the Storm Reaver?


Didn't think so.

>> No.39012728

>It's impossible for an aligned outsider to change their alignment!
Literally the only reason Devils exist is because a shitload of Good-aligned outsiders changed their alignment.

>> No.39012737


Of course my PC does that every day.

The Prophecy of the Storm Reaver is a very fun ride at the amusement park, and during it the "riders" kill a "Dragon God."

>> No.39012740

It's beyond typical PC reckoning either.

There's an entire adventure for planescape about it happening to a demon and all the shit that results, and even then it isn't because the demon chose to be good, it more along the lines of gets infected with goodness.

>> No.39012751

>Alignment doesn't require free will, it requires power.


>Powerful beings with powerful souls can exude their influence over the land without even realizing it. This is a very common theme in fantasy since Tolkien.

Try since Arthurian legends. But that has nothing to do with alignments and free will.

>> No.39012766


>> No.39012767

I agree with this sentiment but think that the argument is then that they cease to be that type of outsider.

>> No.39012790

my sessions look like God of War prequel sequel and the original game combined

we fell gods like a fox in a henhouse

>> No.39012793

Once again, 5E paladins solve everything.

>> No.39012796

>If a demon tried being nice, it would be for the wrong reasons.
Could you really doubt the good intentions of a demon with such magnificent potatoes?

>> No.39012819

What happens if you apply a Helm of Opposite Alignment to a demon?

>> No.39012824

The potato famine was caused by demons.

>> No.39012832


The introduction of potatoes causes massive population growth leading to warfare on a scale never before seen by Humanity.

The genocides of the Israelites or Romans pale in comparison to the wholesale slaughter perpetuated by people fed on that starchy wonder.

>> No.39012855

They take it off.

>> No.39012857


Angels can become Evil because their own thinking lead them down that path. And they are beings who literally know what absolute Good and Law are, and who usually follow them in perfect balance.

A Demon could because Good on their own, because their personal brand of Chaos lead them away from Evil, or things like that. It's just ridiculously unlikely.

>> No.39012861

There's no such thing as a kindhearted demon in my setting. Either or. Not both.

Because that's what demons and devils are: pure evil.

Fuck off with your shit setting, faggot.

>> No.39012862

>inb4 TATERS IN MUH FANTASY sperging

>> No.39012864

It's cursed though.

>> No.39012869


Actually, they changed their subtype first. THEN they changed their alignment. See "The Pact Primeval", the introductory story of Fiendish Codex II: Tyrants of the Nine Hells. The angels start turning into monsters early on, and once that happened they became evil.

It is an important difference. OP's so-called "kindhearted" demon is still a demon. If she were truly trustworthy, she would have changed her form long ago, thus purging the demonic taint out of her. As she is now, she can never be with her palabuddy.

>> No.39012871

>get the peasantry dependent on potatoes
>unleash the blight
Away on, ye infernal gobshite. I'm familiar with your tricks. Stop acting the maggot.

>> No.39012884


Some could say life is a curse.

>> No.39012898

I know it is possible. I'm not arguing it isn't, I'm just agreeing with you that it is ridiculously unlikely..

>> No.39012907

Then someone else takes it off.

The real question is: Do demons prank devils with said helms during their evil frat parties?

>> No.39012913

But it's a cursed item just like the Belt of Gender Change

>> No.39012915

>Started the "O Rly?" meme a decade ago.
>Still used today.


>> No.39012920


While the Demon King looks very soft, gentle and huggable, I would have to say no.

>> No.39012934

>kindhearted demon
pick one and only one

>> No.39012939

You mean she would have changed her form from some kind of Todd McFarlane monster, into that of a voluptuous (albeit with flabby arms) redhead? With detachable horns worn as a novelty hairband?


>> No.39012943

>Paladin cannot associate with evil creatures or they fall

>Demons have evil as a subtype and are always evil because of it

>Can a Paladin befriend or even marry a kindhearted demon without falling?
You'd have to be a pretty shit pally to not believe in redemption.

>> No.39012944

I started the "using heat to cook food" meme and people are still doing that today.
It fucking never gets old, I swear.

>> No.39012951


The flabby arms make her even more endearing, anon.

Especially if she has a little pudge. Just a little though.

>> No.39012953

kindhearted demon

>> No.39012955

You disgust me. How dare you try to tempt the Irish side of me with potatoes and breasts. The Scotish side of me prevents me from falling in. Those potatoes are poisoned. No. She didn't poison them with a potion where if anyone eats one they become like her. Poison that causes you to feel the pain felt during the Potatoe Famine. Nice try though.

>> No.39012960


>> No.39012963

D&D. Goes back to 2e, specifically.
Because D&D
>Pretty Shitty Pally
Debatable, there are lots of different kinds of Paladin.

>> No.39012969

>Demons have evil as a subtype and are always evil because of it

Because they are literally and metaphysically made of evil. They're chaotic evil on a different scale from a Red Dragon.

>> No.39012972

If you make them good somehow, that's the same as killing it because they are less physical beings and more beings spawned of thought and emotion. Sort of like how dropping a fire elemental into water would kill it.

The only, only exception would be sort of divine protection - like how an angel can fall and become a demon, the opposite could happen if a god was willing to accept them. But that's fairly rare - while evil doesn't discriminate, good usually does. And even if a god is willing, they basically have to grab up the demon the exact moment it turns good.

>> No.39012976


You think that's impressive? I pioneered the "make a wheel and gain infinite edge" meme and everyone from Abyssinian to Zulu used it!

Except the Inca. Fuck the Inca.

>> No.39012982


Since Demon King isn't from D&D, she is not a D&D demon, and isn't made of Evil.

>> No.39012993

Ah, I see. You don't understand how cursed items work.

>> No.39013011

The "no associating with evil" clause is a pretty shit one, IMO. It just precludes storytelling possibilities like "Enemy Mine" scenarios, and makes the class's powers dependent on the action of other characters.

Can't actually see any justification for it, really.

>> No.39013026

He's referencing D&D, so yes in this situation the Demon is pure chaos and Evil.

>> No.39013029

>Demons who stop being evil stop being demons, OP.
If fallen angels become demons, can a demon go back to being an angel?

>> No.39013033

The guy just found out his girlfriend is a clone of his mother that lives in an aquarium.
Let the poor fuck drink.

>> No.39013035


>> No.39013037

>that pic

...ok listen. Everyone listen for just a second. I got an idea. Look I think I'm onto something. Just hear me here. I think... look, when a Paladin falls, everyone thinks it's full Blackguard time, right? But-

What if a fallen Paladin actually turns into a Bard?

Just sayin'.

>> No.39013052


Look, dragon, this isn't a competition. You don't get a medal for being good, no matter the path you took from getting there.

>> No.39013053

We're having the same thread about paladins and evil aligned waifus for the millionth time.

Forgive me if I don't take this seriously.

>> No.39013063

That picture has more depth than you can fathom.

>> No.39013067

would play

>> No.39013080


Fallen Paladins neither turn into Blackguards or Bards, they turn into Ex-Paladins, which are like Fighters but shittier.

They can *retrain* their levels or get their Paladin status back, but it doesn't make them automatically turn into something else.

A Fallen Paladin would make a better Cleric, anyway.

>mfw your Cleric waifu used to be an ex-Paladin who fell to live a simpler life.

>> No.39013088

I'd think we'd need some kind of non-aligned outsider for them to default too after the second shift, myself. Can't just have them switching costumes constantly. One shift takes you from one to their opposite number, second shift makes them a new type of outside entirely, further shifts just change the alignment of that. No more digivolutions for them.

>> No.39013115

You are absolutely no fucking fun.

>> No.39013139

>If you make them good somehow, that's the same as killing it because they are less physical beings and more beings spawned of thought and emotion. Sort of like how dropping a fire elemental into water would kill it.

Actually, a Demon becoming Good would be like a Fire Elemental becoming a Water Elemental.

>But that's fairly rare - while evil doesn't discriminate, good usually does

Wrong. See pic related

>> No.39013141

To be born good. That obviates the possibility of doing evil acts before you redeem yourself, thus leading to a greater net result of good done during your lifetime.

Should be obvious, really.

>> No.39013155

>plenty of hot extraplanar babes out there
>many of them are both willing to mash genitals with you and not interested in sucking out your soul
Why would anyone want something they have to fix when they could just as easily get something just as good that works right out of the box?

>> No.39013167

>british are demons
Oh shit, I always wondered why I had horns.
Welp, time to burn down an orphanage.

>> No.39013177

His name was Marauder Shields.

>> No.39013190

He tried to save us from that lift.

We didn't listen.

It still hurts.

>> No.39013202

You step the fuck off you cockney shit, demons are a pedigree above your dirty kind.

>> No.39013223


>> No.39013234

"Okay guys, if you can help me not get my shit completely and utterly kicked in, I will do something really, REALLY good for you."
That's something evil is certainly capable of.

>> No.39013250


Because some people like to throw around the tired argument of "hurr it's like you don't want a challenge" or "Somethin' you work for is better than something you get automatically!"

>> No.39013258


>> No.39013299

I think it's the gender reverse of the reason the girls are all into vampires now. Redemption fetish, only enhanced by the fact it has to and does work despite supernatural corruption and dangerousness. Otherwise we might all be clamoring for lillends or changelings or something else similar in nature but less scary and evil.

>> No.39013311

>His name was Marauder Shields

>> No.39013318

>If D&D or any setting with forces of OBJECTIVE good and evil
Hell no, a demon will always be evil by nature. "Kindhearted" and "demon" will always be mutually exclusive.
>In settings where demons are just another type of being, and aren't always nearly the same in morals, personality, etc.
Possible, but I personally find it kind of stupid.

Can we stop talking about this now, please?

Who am I kidding? If not you, someone *else* will make yet another I CAN HAZ REDEEMED SUCCUBUS WAIFU PLZ? thread

>> No.39013343


The point is that Good doesn't discriminate

>> No.39013353

Right, because it's SO easy to romance and/or seduce an angel or valkyrie.

>> No.39013363


Lilends are great.

I always wondered why no one seems interested by them

>> No.39013368

This doesn't work that way

But lets say it does and hear my counterargument: If born evil and then becoming good you also get a nice net value for all the evil things you potentially would do but you won't now you are good.

>> No.39013369

>Otherwise we might all be clamoring for lillends or changelings or something else similar in nature but less scary and evil.

You're insinuating people aren't clamoring for Changelings.

Changelings are adorable.


Significantly easier and less cringeworthy than somehow becoming the thousandth guy to redeem a Sex Demon through Sex.

>> No.39013370

Oh, please, do you honestly think they would've saved him if he had nothing to offer?

>> No.39013390


>That face
>Implying I'm not best girl

>> No.39013419

Oh god I love lillends. They're fun to work into my settings as protectors of the somewhat extravagant nobles, especially ones that are good-hearted but naive and don't hire their own bodyguards.

>> No.39013428

Much better reward to risk ratio too.

>> No.39013467



>> No.39013476

Take for example, daemonettes. Daemonettes are not nice. They are not cute, friendly, or good. And they never will. They are made out of sadism and serve the living God of rape. What fanartists forget is that they're ugly on the outside like on the inside. They use illusions to appear alluring, and just want to do unspeakable evils to you.

>> No.39013482


I imagine people who insist on "lawful hot dicking" a Succubus into becoming good as opposed to, say, courting an angel, Valkyrie or particularly fine Cleric are the same people who insist you have sex with a dragon in their draconic form rather than letting them slip into something significantly more compatible.

>> No.39013500

Then you're a fucking idiot. It's that simple.

>> No.39013623

>> No.39013647

>> No.39013676

What the fuck?

>> No.39013697

No, in my setting there is no such thing.
Angels (celestials) are beings of light and pure goodness, that can and will not give evil any leeway. (only those that fall do)

Evil beings (Demons & Devils) will kill celestials on sight whenever possible aswell. Or, if they are outmatched, try to outsmart/seduce/make them fall.

Because they are the extremes, they are the Black and the White, there is no grey area for them. All the other races are there just for that.

>> No.39013704

>> No.39013709

/tg/ is the most depressingly predictable board ever sometimes.
It's like, I get it; you've never fucked anyone before. Now keep it to yourself.

>> No.39013727

>> No.39013728

No /a/ is still more predictable.

>> No.39013741

I avoid /a/ the same way I avoid radioactive fallout, so I'll take your word for it.

>> No.39013744

>> No.39013766

>> No.39013844

Who do you think keeps making these threads?

>> No.39013856

>that pun

>> No.39013862


>> No.39013886

>Snakey tail
>Bellydancer outfits

It's likeā€¦ ALL of my hot buttons. Literally the best waifu. Why have I never heard of these beauties before?

>> No.39013961

You were too busy fapping to inferior waifus. That's why you must never rest until you find a waifu that hits all your buttons.

>> No.39013968

Can? Yes. It would require a lot of work and bending all around the rules.

D&D regards good and evil as absolute substances. Demons are made of evil. There is no moral element or judgment call on one being "better" than the other, apart from fluff. Good and Evil so declared are opposite because they are, period. The don't mix for the same reason oil and water don't mix, and philosophy has nothing to do with it.

Which of course means it is possible, but it requires power. It requires force. And the results are limited. You can make an emulsion from immiscible fluids, but at some point it will break and you will need to redo the process to maintain it.

The other thing involved here is cherry-picking. Not much of the evil outsider shit is real pleasant to look at, A. B, as they gain more power they explode into other types of hierarchal demons. So your sexy succubus will evolve into freakish bloated hellbeast at some point and fuck up your fantasy.
Alternatively they will composition-shift and become a non-demon type outsider, some of which are also terrifying and unsexy.

In other words you absolutely can if you can do what's necessary to enable it. But Don't.

>> No.39013974

>> No.39014002


Of course, Anakin

>> No.39014021

Dunno. They're also Chaotic Good celestial bards who exist mainly to protect other musicians and artists and such, which is pretty cool.

>> No.39014032

I'm not getting any of these. I feel like parts of my brain are losing functionality by reading them.

>> No.39014056

I've never killed, robbed, or magically compelled anyone before either. Should I take it threads about fighters, rogues, and wizards are now verboten, or is lewd your only trigger?

>> No.39014057

Just have it be a half fiend.

Use the Races of Destiny variant that classifies half breeds as their other parent (so a human tiefling, or human half giant, or human half fiend, is still classified as a humanoid because while tainted they sure as fuck aren't spirit creatures from the Outer Planes).

bam, can be hit by Atonement.

>> No.39014063

>So your sexy succubus will evolve into freakish bloated hellbeast at some point and fuck up your fantasy.
I can dig it.

>> No.39014064

No, that's forbidden love. Besides Female Knight is there for Hero.

>> No.39014093

>> No.39014116


Because no one seems to care about hot Chaotic Good artisticaly-talented monstergirls, for some reason

>> No.39014130

I only found out about them because I actually read through the monster manual to pass the time. Most people probably don't include them anywhere because they're about protecting things that are beautiful - art, natural landscapes, stuff like that.

>> No.39014143

>> No.39014145

You mean things PCs like to steal?

>> No.39014148

Pit fiends are devils, not demons.

>> No.39014178

>> No.39014180

Succubi are now actually neutral evil demons that exist outside the order of the 8 Hells and the Abyss.

>> No.39014202


Let's be honest, a large majority of the MMs' content is almost never used.

>> No.39014209

>4e had them as devils

It's pretty stupid.

>> No.39014232

>neutral evil demons
>Neutral Evil


>> No.39014233


They're fiends, not demons

>> No.39014255

>> No.39014262

Fiends, demons, devils.....after a while they all just kind of jumble together in your brain.

>> No.39014292

Demons and Devils are fiends. So are Yugoloths, Fiend is a supercategory.

>> No.39014295

>> No.39014297

What the hell are Lillends based off anyway?

Only ever heard of them in DnD.

>> No.39014326

>a kindhearted demon

Since you seem to be talking about Dungeons and Dragons, no such thing exists. Demons aren't creatures with free will. They don't make choices. They are manifestations of planar beings that work in direct opposition to the planar beings that the Paladin's must necessarily serve.

If you were to create an alternate cosmology or use a more real-world occult rather than D&D definition of demon, then demons could be any unseen spiritual force and the difference between an angel or a demon or a deva or a pagan god would be in the social context rather than in the raw metaphysics of the fictional cosmos in which D&D is usually set.


Historically, a paladin has a significantly different and much muddier meaning than the D&D paladin, but since D&D is a game about clear narratives where violence is the answer to problems both good and evil... Many real world moral issues have been simplified to gamify the concepts.

>> No.39014362


People get butmad about demons and devils and fiends and whatnot.


I like me some Mardu Demons.



>> No.39014366

>> No.39014385

Demons have free will, they're just made of evil and chaos too.

So they are free to make their own choices, but are still bound by their own limitations.

>> No.39014397

>> No.39014406

>paying any attention to the lore of MtG
>at all
I bet you "roleplay" while playing chess too.

>> No.39014408

Nope. They can fake it, though.

>> No.39014437

>> No.39014440

Please stop. You are making me feel so old. I've wasted my life on 4chan.

>> No.39014450

I started >implying on /b/ way back when in some political discussion. I can't say for sure I was the first, but I hadn't seen it before I started, so I feel guilty for poisoning debate on the site.

>> No.39014465

Yup. Demons are sentient and sapient creatures able to think and make decisions for themselves.

There are just certain things they can't normally do because of their very nature.

>> No.39014473


Why the fuck wouldn't you?

You gotta figure out how the punching of animals interacts with alternate timelines somehow.

>> No.39014488


They're from D&D.


D&D demons have free will. They simply don't choose to do anything but Evil, unless there is ridiculously exceptional circumstences.

D&D demon can choose to do Good, just like a sex addict can choose to shoot himself in the balls. Sure, they have the possibility to do so, but pretty much no incentive

>> No.39014491

I started the use of symbols in patterns and combinations in order to facilitate meaning and understanding.
Never expected it to catch on like it did though.

>> No.39014516


It's not that they can't do it, it's that they don't want to

>> No.39014525

Very true. Most people just stick with the generic stuff, or homebrew their own. No one does anything with that plant whose leaves are hands, or with titans, or that weird acid-spitting thing.

>> No.39014528

The creature called a Pit Fiend in HOMM V is very distinctly a D&D balor, complete with being able to be upgraded to have a vorpal sword and similar spells.

HOMM V is very D&Dy in general.

>> No.39014529

>D&D demon can choose to do Good, just like a sex addict can choose to shoot himself in the balls. Sure, they have the possibility to do so, but pretty much no incentive

I think a better example is what

Orcs like evil like a sex addict likes sex. Demons like evil like a human enjoys being made of Carbon, Hydrogen, Nitrogen and Oxygen.

>> No.39014545

When life gives you lemons you find a new god.

>> No.39014552

Demons can't be kindhearted, they are evil.

>> No.39014589

The mercenary... The masked man.

>> No.39014594

>Demons like evil like a human enjoys being made of Carbon, Hydrogen, Nitrogen and Oxygen.
So what you're saying is there are a some demons who genuinely want to be redeemed in the same way that there are some humans who want to upload into kickass robot bodies?

>> No.39014609

>> No.39014627


A demon becoming good is like an Earth Elemental becoming an Air Elemental.

It's possible, extremely rare, and you just end up with an Air Elemental with a background a bit stranger than the rest

>> No.39014631

>> No.39014638


5th edition called. It says the paladin can do whatever the fuck is in line with his oath.

>> No.39014662

Don't worry, soon you'll stop feeling that because you'll be incapable.

>> No.39014663

well, 3e does.

2e and before doesn't have good as having absolute values at all.

4e doesn't have good as an absolute, just evil -- or specifically, THE Chaotic Evil force at the Heart of the Abyss, a universal force of fuckery and corruption. but its not like being evil gets you sent to Hell, or the Abyss.

5e doesn't even have much meaningful differences between alignments at all -- a Lawful Evil, Chaotic Neutral, Lawful Neutral, Lawful Good and Chaotic Good character can all have identical behavior (though its not probable), as very few alignments have mutually exclusive behavior.

>> No.39014675

>> No.39014693


Reminder that Bane canonicaly spent the whole movie being high as shit due to painkillers

>> No.39014705


>implying elementals don't attempt.

With the raise of that one fucking Dragonlord, the elementals found themselves much less fuckin' cool.

>> No.39014725

Of course!

>> No.39014756


For You!

>> No.39014757

Oh look... It's this thread again.

>> No.39014775

>> No.39014840

Entirely possible.
I'd say it is more likely for a demon to want to be good than a devil, due to their chaotic nature and the fact there is an infinite number of them.

It would be really difficult though. Due to metaphysically being made of Evil, they would have a hard time understanding what Good even is. Their attempts to understand it would likely be horrific. And even once they have a sort of basic understanding of good down, they would likely have trouble actually putting it into practice, with most attempts going wrong.

>> No.39014951

easiest way to turn a demon good is Baleful Polymorph. Changes them into Type: Animal (yes really) and may wipe out their memories temporarily. If not it still wipes out their powers temporarily. You can use Atonement or other factors to shift their alignment.

RP wise, why would this work? Well, they have to deal with being a helpless kitty, completely dependent on the loving compassion of others for awhile.

>> No.39014953

>> No.39014959

Please stop posting these. I feel like I'm having real life SAN loss reading them.

>> No.39015031

>Due to metaphysically being made of Evil, they would have a hard time understanding what Good even is. Their attempts to understand it would likely be horrific. And even once they have a sort of basic understanding of good down, they would likely have trouble actually putting it into practice, with most attempts going wrong.


>> No.39015067


Oh, the smart demons perfectly understand what good is. They don't "get" it, though.

Like someone who has an encyclopediac knowledge of the rules and history of football, but who can't fathom why anyone would play it

>> No.39015080

>> No.39015099

Sure, I'm 5e.

>> No.39015168

I have doubts they'd "perfectly" understand what it is.

>> No.39015178

Fucking isn't illegal, faggot.

Now go jerk off in the smut thread before crying yourself to sleep dreaming of imaginary women.

>> No.39015219


He wasn't alone

>> No.39015266


Well, "perfectly" is hyperbolic

>> No.39015367

>He not only smites he protects
By smiting

>> No.39015408

When will you guys learn that being a demon is a side effect of being that evil, not the other way around?

OP pic is an example of a good demon... from an anime about fantasy medieval economics, in which paladins do not exist.

>> No.39015430

>> No.39015482

last one of these I have.

>> No.39015493

This is the first one of these I've actually found funny.

>> No.39015556

Not true, there are beings that are just as evil without being demons, such as Devils and Yugoloths.

>> No.39015621

I'm not sure they're supposed to be funny.

>> No.39015626


... fuck Yugoloths.

Seriously, they don't have a decent common name that means nearly the same thing in standard English.

>> No.39015656

>grits their teeth and accepts the grim realities of life.
Yeah, I'm sure those babies were coming right at you, champ.

>> No.39015659

Daemon. But yeah, they're almost identical.

>> No.39015685


It requires you to show Christ-like forgiveness for EVERYONE. aka Silver Age comic book morality. Jesus Christ.

>> No.39015735

EVIL babies

>> No.39015744

They're not supposed to be funny, they're supposed to be art.

>> No.39015765


Daemon. People tend to use "yugoloth" because daemon is normally pronounced demon (but not in D&D)

>> No.39015782

So in other words, they're garbage.

>> No.39015836

Nits make lice. Gygax accepted that, mang.

>> No.39015922

Side effects are not ubiquitous. If a human ever became that evil, they wouldn't suddenly become a demon. The point I'm making is that if a demon weren't chaotic evil, they wouldn't be a demon.

>> No.39015933

No. They can't. They are evil by nature.

They are incapable of good.


They aren't free to change alignment, therefore they have no free will.

>> No.39015950

Just because you don't understand doesn't mean it's garbage.

I don't understand either, but I have to think about it. These comics aren't just gags. They're about more than their substance.

>> No.39015960

>Orcs like evil like a sex addict likes sex. Demons like evil like a human enjoys being made of Carbon, Hydrogen, Nitrogen and Oxygen.

>> No.39015967

Yeah that's true, no one is really denying that.

>> No.39015997


Fuck it.

I'm making a Chaotic Neutral race of fiends called Daevils by the common man, and Pharoths by the other that are totally not Devils.

(Yeah, I know that Daemon is a word that's been made up for a while, but fuck it.)

>> No.39016055

Is this a reference to Deevils from Palladium?

>> No.39016059

Demons are able to change alignment, it is just extremely unlikely to happen and would be what one might call a miracle.
Demons have just as much free will as humans, generally speaking.

>> No.39016076

you're going to take your daemons and you're going to like them.

>> No.39016078

Demons in traditional western occult aren't necessarily evil, they were cast that way by Catholic social structures which wanted to abolish any magic or thaumaturgy that wasn't controlled by the Church because they didn't want another Jesus-type peasant rebellion to happen. Demons were the name for any kind of spirit helper that could do spirit tasks for you.

Jesus was killed because he marched a peasant army on a regional Roman capitol and caused significant political upset in the process. Anyone who had access to any kind of mojo was either stuck into a monastary or turned into a monster.

>> No.39016141

The old man said a lot of stupid shit. Just because he did a lot of good doesn't mean everything he said is gold.

>> No.39016148


.... I have no idea what you are talking about.

Palladium could be making the same joke i have.


I do love them, just not in settings where demons are a thing.

Alternate spellings are fine, as long as you don't try to say that they are seriously different.

i.e. fuck both sides of the whisky/whiskey debate.

>> No.39016181

Maybe in your stupid Magical Realm(tm)

>> No.39016189

If you were to think about it rationally instead of emotionally, why there is an alignment system at all and how it differed between the editions, you'd be able to figure out why 1e and BoED had different perspectives.

tl;dr 1e = you were fixed into an alignment and couldn't safely change it, and neutral was often as bad as evil is in 3e
3e = you aren't fixed into an alignment (unless you take Exalted feats etc.) and changing has no consequences normally

>> No.39016209

Deevils and debbles are very different creatures actually. Not sure why you're so insistent on mocking quality game design.

>> No.39016224

>People will think I'm smart if I pretend to like this, right?

>> No.39016260

That's not what magical realm means, Mr. Shitposter.

>> No.39016298

She's not a demon though. She's just a dimension hopper.

>> No.39016347

It's not always about piss. It can be about your magic cock that can turn demons good. ALL THEY NEED IS A LITTLE LOVE, A LITTLE MAGIC PALADIN DICKLOVE


>> No.39016363

Hero wasn't a paladin. He was more a fighter/wizard multi-class.

>> No.39016368


Whatever she is, it's adorable.

>> No.39016432

>Jesus was killed because he marched a peasant army on a regional Roman capitol and caused significant political upset in the process.
No he wasn't; he was killed because the local Jewish clergy didn't like him telling them and the people that their fatwas (which included stuff like saying that a man may divorce he noticed a wart on her nose) were a steaming load. The clergy went to the local Roman government and told them that he was a menace that needed to be disposed of. The Romans were all like, "What the fuck, man? We can't kill this guy; he's done nothing wrong!" But the clergy (and the bandwagoning churchgoers) told them that they'd prefer to see a convicted serial murderer pardoned rather than him. Then this actually happened and the people cheered.

>> No.39016487

No anon, that isn't what is being discussed here at all. You're hatred has clouded your vision entirely.

Demons are metaphysically made of evil. They are evil in spirit and the very fiber of their being. They still have Free Will, they're just going to almost always be making evil choices because of what they are.
Like was said earlier, a demon choosing to try to stop being evil is like a human choosing to stop using oxygen to maintain homeostasis. It is something that can hypothetically be imagined, but is still beyond your capabilities. Doesn't mean that the human doesn't have free will though, they just have limitations.

You should slow down and think rationally, and not fly off the handle so quickly. You flip out and resort to shitposting to attack others over entirely imagined transgressions. I'm going to be serious with you anon, and tell you that you should take a step back and reexamine your choices.

>> No.39016505

The adorablest

>> No.39016548


She has very flabby upper arms, though.

How can you love a woman if her arms are flabby?

>> No.39016570

Disgusting AND evil.

>> No.39016574 [DELETED] 

You're making shit up to try to justify your gross sex fantasies.

>> No.39016636

Please stop shitposting.

>> No.39016645


Clearly the only solution here is to submit her for rough, vigorous physical activity.

>> No.39016649

Wouldn't this situation be heavily dependent on the setting?

If setting makes demons made of evil and stuff like that, of course a paladin consorting with them is really asking to fall, whereas if they are just another race like some chinese cartoons settings, fall should not happen.

>> No.39016661

I would love to see a setting where demons aren't evil, just prone to really bad luck, resulting in evil results.

Like, you want to build an orphanage? The workers are sub-par and build it without supports, bricks fall, children die.

Want to feed the homeless? That guy that you just fed is deathly allergic to ingredients, and dies of anaphylactic shock.

you slay a dragon that's been terrorizing a village for years? His whole flight comes in and razes it all to the ground in revenge.

It'd be no wonder demons go insane or become accepting of their evil ways, when nothing they ever do results in anything nice.

>> No.39016685

Go fuck yourself.

>> No.39016689


>> No.39016711

It's not really reportable, but I am out. Some people are so lost in their own bullshit they started to like the smell.

>> No.39016750

It is reportable. Breaks global rule 6.

>> No.39016763

Flabby arms are for cuddling

>> No.39016817

I guess you're right. Before that post I thought he was just overreacting, but now it is obvious he is just a shitposter that needs a 3 day break from 4chan.

>> No.39016901

Not in any setting that consider demons/devils to be inherently evil/personifications of evil. (as D&D does)

>> No.39016918

Who the fuck keeps making these "Paladin meets [female evil being], what happens?" threads

>> No.39016935


>> No.39016969

Shitposters who know they're guaranteed to get at least a hundred replies, because /tg/ never learns.

>> No.39016993

I started the whole "gr8 b8 m8" thing a while back. What the fuck is up with /tg/ users and creating memes?

>> No.39017020

>Filthy Cockney
>Not glorious Queen's English Upper Class

Step aside, chaps.

>> No.39017077

God damnit I hate this stupid fucking anime/manga, everyone is a fucking mary sue and it tries to be smarter than it is.

Moving on.

Depends on setting, talk about which world you are talking about. However if we are talking about DnD, possible yes, should it happen? No. Palis are all very difrent and one might have a god who might allow that shit, but still, it is like fucking a toaster, sure you can do it, but why?

>> No.39017102

>Not wanting to have a toaster waifu

>> No.39017156

Surely you can't be blamed for something you did before you understood a concept?

Like, say your mom never made you pancakes when you were a kid, because she never knew a recipe. Then, one day, a recipe falls into her hands and she now makes you pancakes every Sunday. She wouldn't retroactively be a shitty mom because she didn't make pancakes when she didn't know how, but she would be a better mom after she started.

>> No.39017224

>Muh special snowflake GOOD AND TOTALLY LAWFUL demon waifu.

This is worse than honorable orcs, or rogues "with a heart of gold".

>> No.39017296

>honorable orcs
The occasional honorable warrior orc thrown into the mix is much better than chaotic evil orcs all day erry day.

>> No.39017380

Why the sudden interest in Maoyuu /tg/? I mean, I understand, it's entirely our sort of thing, but it came out years ago.

(Also no-one seems to have anything clever to say about it, other than waifu nonsense. Speaking of:)
She's not flabby enough.

>> No.39017384

I'm of this opinion as well.

>> No.39017600

Too fat.

>> No.39017648

What if the Paladin is the girl and the demon is the boy, /tg/?

>> No.39017649

Wow, what's it like to have literally the worst possible taste?

>> No.39017712

Says you.
Useless meat is the worst.

>> No.39017786

You people disgust me.

>> No.39017968

No, the paladin would most definitely fall. It is also up to him to withstand temptations like that and remain strong.

It would make for an interesting story though. Imagine a paladin decides to fall in the name of love and now he has to escape to some place safe with his demon wife in tow and the members of his former order actively hunting him. He may no longer have his paladin abilities but he is still a formidable fighter on his own and rumor has it that the demon that he fell for is also empowering him.

I wouldn't be surprised if there is already an anime or some shit with the same premise though.

>> No.39018067

yes its the alignment that matters not the subtype

although any good aligned demon worth a dam is going to find a way to suppress its evil aura

>> No.39018286

But that's where the Paladins work comes in. If the demon is looming over an innocent or a comrade about to rip out his/her throat, Cleave and smite. But if you have bested the demon without killing it or have encountered the demon in a non-combat situation, it is the Paladins duty to save/convert said demon.

Long game smiting the demon just pushes it back to where the next dark sorcerer or cleric can call it up again. converting it adds another card to your sides divine arsenal. Destroying a demon to its very essence would be an abomination the same way destroying an evil magic item is. Except now you your own celestial allies start looking at you funny cause, you are, in their eyes, an unpredictable mortal who could turn on them at any moment. You might actually fall since this would be a chaotic act.

>> No.39018351

>it is the Paladins duty to save/convert said demon.

I really fucking hate the idea that a magic fighty guy's job is to be a cosmic aid worker. The fewer arbitrary absolutes jammed into the game that make an already downtrodden and pissed on character archetype even worse, less individualistic and more prone to falling constantly the better.

>> No.39018619

Then dont play a class that is specifically the definition of the Lawful Good Ideal. There is no room for chaos and evil acts in a Paladins work.

A paladin who doesn't do his job Falls. There is still gray area like letting the inocent be eaten to save others, but this will always start a timer that without some serious work you will fall.

Palladins are all work and no play, it makes them dull girls, but it keeps the abyss at bay and lets you dick around with your neutral good to chaotic neutral colorful lives.

>> No.39019442

>magic fighty guy
Okay hooooold it right there
The paladin is far, FAR more than the "magic fighty guy." In 4e he is maybe, and maybe even 3.PF to some extent, but before that? I'll just link you this: http://scibbe.com/?p=3699

>> No.39019603

>A paladin who doesn't do his job Falls.

His job doesn't include babying demons. Seriously, wtf? His role is pretty well described in the Code of Conduct.

>but it keeps the abyss at bay

Or in this case, makes you spare the Abyss and let it hang out in the material plane.

>> No.39019634

Demons don't have babies.

>> No.39019721

>The paladin is far, FAR more than the "magic fighty guy."

He's a magic fighty guy with a pretty clear job to do (fight and magic honorably to punish those who harm the innocent, respect legitimate authority such as your god or king). For some reason people tend to recast the paladin as "guy responsible for solving all problems ever, including all leadership problems and diplomatic problems" when he's a footsoldier (or occasionally, cavalryman) of good.

His abilities... are middling. He can fight (sometimes poorly, like in 2e and 3e), and he can magic (usually poorly), his intelligence is probably not amazing, and deity-level challenges like "baby every demon you meet" and "decide the course of action that will redeem the orcish race, given your incredibly scant resources."

Nonsense like "save beings of pure evil" is way above his abilities.

>> No.39019743

Never said they did.

>> No.39019783

Oh right. I thought you were saying his job doesn't involve killing baby demons.

Gotta smite ALL the evil.

>> No.39019889

>sometimes poorly, like in 2e
u wot m8

He's not the "guy who is supposed to solve all problems ever," but he is the guy who is supposed to be a paragon of good and law. A battle-Christ, so to speak. That's a lot to live up to.

>> No.39020088

Depends on setting.
Rule of thumb, if they're not evil they're no longer a demon, per se.
For a paladin in particular and anyone else in general, a bad girl fetish is a shitty thing to base a relationship off of.

>> No.39020331


>That's a lot to live up to

Its already a lot to live up to before people decide to consider their personal feelings to be a good guide to "objective good and law." Hell, already in this thread there are people requiring paladins to be both more powerful, more knowledgeable, and more forgiving than Christ. How ridiculous.

>> No.39020445

Don't think too much on it, most of them are just doing it to justify their shitty fetish. The paladin is allowed to simply kill things that are evil to solve a problem and anyone arguing against that is an idiot. It's not their duty to bring out the "inner good" in other beings, that's said beings job to do on their own and if he's in a position to kill them odds are they failed.

>> No.39020595


>> No.39021416

I'd purify pic releated

with my dick

>> No.39021544

You can't, she is pure evil.

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