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38637494 No.38637494 [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

Tell me /tg/. how can you play a paladin without it falling into the whole lawful stupid thing? I've paladin I've had in my games was like that.

>> No.38637509

>>38637494

lawful lingerie/bikinis should seriously be a thing.

>> No.38637517

Avoid the "smite first, ask questions never" philosophy.

>> No.38637520

>>38637494
I would suggest by reviewing the 2e 'complete Paladins handbook'.

>> No.38637569

>>38637509

In our games for some reason female paladins always wear skimpy armor...

>> No.38637632

>>38637494

Look at DnD 5e, it have clearly paladin codes what you can and can't do.

>> No.38637658

>>38637569
Maybe their gods really discourage crossdressing.

>> No.38637669

>>38637494
>Tell me /tg/, how can you play a wizard without falling into the whole guy who uses arcane magic thing? I've wizard I've had in my games was like that.

Yeah, funny story, that's the entire idiom of the class. If it doesn't appeal to you, why do you want to use the class? No, really, what does paladin have that cleric or gish doesn't aside from Lawful Stupidity?

>> No.38637720

>>38637658

Paladin traps... another fetish on my list...

>> No.38637741

Kill an innocent cleric of Pelor in a well populated city while dressed in your enemy of choice's garb/holy symbol.
Await the authorities and mock a battle where you cause massive collateral damage and no casualties, then die.
Congratulations, you started a righteous holy war with minimum bloodshed while simultaneously remaining selfless and noble by casting off your purity to guide the world toward the correct future.

>> No.38637742

Be a good person who considers violence to be the option when diplomacy has failed, or a first resort only when the innocent are in immediate danger. You'll avoid a lot of lawful stupid just by not smiting first and asking questions later. Beyond that, avoid playing your character as having a stick up their ass.

>> No.38637758
File: 205 KB, 1418x721, 1365570861148.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
38637758

LG Alignment is best alignment?

>> No.38637768

>>38637494
Consider the following:

Paladins follows a code because they need rules to stop them from being muderhobos.

What happens when he associates with a troupe of murderhobos? Does he fall back into his old ways, or does he strive to be the best man he can be?

>> No.38637823

>>38637669

But what does Lawful Stupid even mean? Smite first forgive later? Because if so that's always been a shirt pleb "subversion" of the class and the ideal way to play is as >>38637742 suggests.

Paladins are generally pleasant people. Yes they have Intimidate as a class skill, but they've also got Diplomacy and Healing for a reason.

>> No.38637904
File: 17 KB, 768x226, Blackguard of Pelor.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
38637904

Paladin Story Dump Time.

>> No.38637941
File: 220 KB, 1273x955, Falling Paladin in 4E.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
38637941

>>38637904
Because examples are the best way to educate.

>> No.38638003
File: 306 KB, 1240x1176, Advice for Paladins.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
38638003

>>38637941

>> No.38638019

>>38637494
You know, this thread reminds me, I was reading 90s era Wonder Woman the other day, and the only reason she never got caught in Lawful Stupid is because her actions and the consequences thereof were always retroactively justified by the plot.

Diana gets attacked by animal-human hybrids, knocks them out non-lethally. Turns out they were beastiomorphs under Circe's control. Thank Hera she didn't use lethal force!

Diana gets attacked by animal-human hybrids and slaughters them without blinking. Turns out they were mythological creatures and also always Chaotic Evil. Thank Hera she didn't waste time and expose herself to unnecessary danger by trying to take them down alive.

If you had that kind of post-facto narrative justification, no paladin would ever fall again.

>> No.38638029
File: 1.61 MB, 1136x5000, Paladin the Redemption.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
38638029

>>38638003

>> No.38638045
File: 217 KB, 1007x310, Paladins Falling A How To.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
38638045

>>38638029
>>38638019
Plot armour is a hell of a drug.

>> No.38638066
File: 205 KB, 988x1336, Sigurd the Fallen.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
38638066

>>38638045

>> No.38638093
File: 128 KB, 1420x469, That Paladin.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
38638093

>>38638066

>> No.38638099
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38638099

>>38637941

>> No.38638116
File: 297 KB, 1258x678, The Guardsman's Challenge.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
38638116

>>38638093

>> No.38638142
File: 113 KB, 1872x592, Time Travelling Paladin.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
38638142

>>38638116

>> No.38638150

>>38637494

Stop playing with/being an unimaginative faggot who can't roleplay, then.

>> No.38638164
File: 658 KB, 1330x1196, To Be a Paladin.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
38638164

>>38638142

>> No.38638191
File: 229 KB, 1260x859, You Never Have to Fall.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
38638191

>>38638164
Last one.

>> No.38638497

>>38638191
Doing gods work anon

>> No.38638727

>>38637494
Follow the tenets of your chosen deity without throwing away your character's common sense.

>> No.38638763
File: 640 KB, 1581x2279, Black Paladin.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
38638763

So from those stories I hope you've learned the lesson about avoid Lawful Stupid, Anon; A Paladin obeys the spirit of the Law, not the letter.

There is literally no difference between a Paladin and any other class that has an alignment. A paladin knows what is right and insists on doing it, not because his god tells him to or because he doesn't want to lose his special powers but because it is the right thing to do.

A Paladin is just someone who does what is right when push comes to shove, and so his god gives him power so that he may continue to do what is right.

Note that I used right instead of Good; although Paladins are good, they are not doing something because it is Good as opposed to Evil, but because it is Right as opposed to Wrong. They don't go around detecting evil and slaughtering everyone who pings as less than 45 Milligoods, because that is the wrong thing to do. It's better to spend their time protecting people from harm and teaching them to do what is right than it is to hold them up to the highest standard of objective Good.

>> No.38638790
File: 201 KB, 800x450, just doin Gods work.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
38638790

>>38638497
You to huh

>> No.38638840

>>38637494

To avoid Lawful Stupid I'd say
- let the small shit slide
- only make a fuss out of major violations
- be willing to break a law if it's unjust and is causing harm, and there is no legal way to make things right
- focus more on following your Paladin's own holy codes, and don't make a big deal out of local laws
- if you feel like you're not being Lawful enough, just make a few token protests against unlawful behaviour but don't take it any further

As always the player is the most important thing. If an idiot plays a Paladin then usually one of three things happens: they go full retard Smitequisitor, or they go full retard Hall Monitor, or they entirely ignore their alignment and class background to just be the same murdering, torturing, loot-hungry douchebag that all their other characters are.

A bad GM can influence how a player plays a Paladin too. If a player knows their GM is going to "lol u falled XD" because your Paladin just jaywalked, then they'll probably be inclined to Lawful Stupid just for their own preservation.

For non-idiots with sensible GMs who just aren't sure how to Paladin, then general terms I'd say to remember that characters are nuanced. It's true that Paladins are motivated by compassion and guided by a strong, even severe, code of conduct. But, that's just the basic outline. A Paladin isn't a mindless stickler for rules and regulations, they just think that good order is the key to good living. Paladins always follow a code of some kind but they're also human beings (or elven, or dwarven, etc), many are willing to allow minor exceptions to The Law now and then, as long as it doesn't cause any harm. Paladins are compassionate, or at least dedicate themselves to protecting and helping others, but that doesn't mean they can't be pragmatic at the same time. Paladins usually have strict self-control but if pushed enough they can also succumb to anger or other emotions, though they will repent these later.

>> No.38639289

The first time I DM'd PF, the paladin was looking for an evil warlord's wife and found a large door. He detected evil and took a bit of damage because of the sheer concentration of evil that he detected behind the door. He, being just 7th level, decided to deal with it later. Everyone cheered him for it.

>> No.38639457

>>38638066

I'm not understanding how the good paladin fell and the "neutral" paladin hadn't fallen, outside of the DM being a complete asshat.

>> No.38639631

>>38639457
It was the DM being a complete asshat.

>> No.38639639

>>38639457
>outside of the DM being a complete asshat.
You are a dense person

>> No.38639804

>>38639639

I was hoping there was a reason other than just "the DM being a complete asshat". I mean, obviously there wasn't, but I still like hoping people aren't complete faggots.

>> No.38639812

Anyone want to hear the story of how I played Paladin in my first game of D&D in college, largely CN or LE companions?

>> No.38639907

>>38639812
Sure.

>> No.38640072

>>38637494
My paladin takes the time to look at the situation and consider what is happening. He waits until he's sure someone has done something evil before attacking.

Basically, look before you leap. Don't just run around screaming HERESY.

>> No.38640298
File: 177 KB, 652x843, Polish Winged Hussars.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
38640298

>>38637494
Easy. Play Paladins as defenders, not assault. And make Paladin be the secondary role to whatever they used to be or would rather be. Have Paladin be either a godless divine mandate (in that it's simply the Will Of Heaven and not one deity to avoid tainting the concept), or simply a state of being anyone can end up falling into, which provokes them to help people and go to their aid.

Save the typical idea of a Paladin for a Knight -- let them be the conflicted Arthur-alikes who smite and cleave, or the super cops who obey the letter of the law. You can smite and cleave too, but you'll want to do the HARD thing and seek lasting resolutions to the problems that plague the world. Be a superhero in disguise, essentially, wanting a normal life but unable to ignore the wrongs done around you. Like Spiderman. He isn't lawful at all but he does the RIGHT thing and helps people. Focus more on Good, Law gets in the way.

If you just want to sword and board over beer and chips then who gives a fuck play a fascist with a divine license to kill and stomp in the face of anything not LG forever. Just have fun.

>> No.38640352

>>38637494
Don Quixote, if you're in 5e and don't have an alignment requirement. You get to be Chaotic Stupid instead.

>> No.38640404

>>38637823
Lawful Stupid means a combo of Inspector Javert and Judge Dread.

>> No.38640415

>be me
>19 years old, living on my own in NYC
>freshman year of college
>pretty edgy, shitty worldview
>sort of falling into emo-stereotype
>weak, long hair, pale, etc.
>get invited into D&D group by a friend
>eh, why not
>go to fill out character sheet
>man, all these classes suck
>pick LG paladin as a joke
>plan to play him as an idiot, always the butt of jokes because lol only an idiot would be LG fuck the system, etc.
>start to play
>typical 'you all meet in a tavern' start
>local bandits have kidnapped mayor's daughter
>he pleads with us to rescue her
>okay
>I snoop around a bit, talk to the mayor after the others have left to get weapons/supplies
>turns out he doesn't actually care for her
>just wants her for a political marriage
>I'm getting angry, both IC and in real life
>want to drop the quest
>rest of the party pushes me into it because muh loot
>fine
>we go, start fighting bandits
>I get drawn away from the rest of the party, see a wounded bandit run into a tent
>follow him, intending to finish the job
>he's holding the mayor's daughter in his arms, she's crying
>"UNHAND HER, BRIG-"
>"PLEASE DON'T HURT HIM!"
>wut
>she wasn't kidnapped
>wanted to leave behind shitty pampered life, live with bandits
>didn't know they killed and looted, just loved this boy
>realize he's barely older than 18 or 19, same age as she is
>I throw a coin at them, tell them not to get caught and to stay on the right side of the law this time
>"Oh thank you sir we will sir, etc."
>they flee
>party bitches me out for missing chance on reward
>I tell the mayor his daughter died in the fighting, we get reward anyway
>finish that day's game
>walk away feeling different, conflicted
>as the game goes on, more and more of the situations pop up
>I start to genuinely like and respect my character and what he stands for
>as asstarded as it sounds, try to act like he would
>be truthful, uphold code, respect the law when it's respectable, but morals come first, that sort of thing
cont.

>> No.38640592

>>38638116
Those two posts in the middle though.

>> No.38640747

>>38640415
>always look back to that first quest and use it as the cornerstone of my paladin's beliefs
>mercy, then morals, then the law
>remember the bandit with the wound on his face
>imagine he's a miller or a logger, providing for his loving wife, maybe a child
>we go through a campaign or two, my paladin deals with some tough choices
>whether to put away a mage who could escape and murder again or kill him
>whether to set free a child guilty of aiding a murderer that happened to be her mother and only parent
>you get the gist
>awful choices to make, and usually against the party, but I win them over with righteous paladin speeches
>always leave games happy and proud of my paladin
>then we get word of a BBEG terrorizing half the kingdom
>brought together all the roving bandit clans/groups
>formed a mercenary army
>forging towards the capital city to usurp the righteous and just king
>the army leaves a path of destruction behind it
>burned farms, sacked towns, whole villages slaughtered
>time to get smiting
>catch up to the horde, after seeing the horrifying evils they've perpetrated across the land
>carve a swath through them to their general's tent in the middle of the camp
>duck into the tent, ready for smiting
>BBEG is in darkness, torches around him put his face into shadow
>getting bad vibes OOC
>shake it off, step forward
>"Show your face, cur! Surrender and cease this violence at once, or we will stop you ourselves!"
>He steps forward into the light
>rippling scar across his face
>it's the bandit from my very first campaign
>I'm wearing a look of horror, realizing what's about to happen
>he yanks on a chain, from out of the darkness comes a woman bound hand and foot
>she can barely crawl, tight collar around her neck
>obviously beaten frequently
>it's the mayor's daughter
>I fall to my knees, can't deal with what I'm seeing
>everything my morality was based on
>everything I believed in
>everything all the way from the beginning
>it was all a lie
cont.

>> No.38640865

>>38640747
>all a pleasant illusion
>I drag myself to my feet
>pick up sword
>"Surrender."
>BBEG laughs
>roll for initiative, it's mine
>swing wildly at him
>we fight
>back and forth, until we're both almost dead
>I'm hovering above zero
>"Listen, Paladin! I have an army, gold, wealth! You could take it and march for whatever cause you desire! Just let me live."
>roll to attack
>off comes his hand
>He's on the ground, cries out for mercy
>"Never again."
>stab him through the heart
And that's how my paladin fell, /tg/

>> No.38640929

>>38640865
Why would that constitute a fall, though?

>> No.38641017

>>38640929
DM said killing an unarmed man who couldn't hold his weapon calling for mercy was enough. No regrets though.

>> No.38641061

>>38640865
Your DM was being a colossal douche. You gave that man a second chance, and told him to stay on the right side of the law. He had his chance, and he clearly spat it back into your paladin's face. He doesn't deserve mercy at that point because clearly he doesn't believe in it. You did the correct thing to kill him.

>> No.38641105

>>38641017
>>38641061
What he/she/it said. The one who fell was your DM.

>> No.38641157

>>38640865
Honestly, it's not particularly logical. On the first, it should be obvious that a bandit (a thief and murderer at best) should never be let out without, at the bare minimum, some guarantee of future good behavior, and at the end, it was really just a paladin correcting a mistake. Much of what a paladin must do is make judgement calls: he fucked it up the first time, wholly forgiving a man who should have at the least been watched, and the second time made the right call or almost the right call.

It would have been better to drag him to a formal trial, but the situation was hairy enough that I would not blame the paladin: there was significant risk of escape or backstabbing, particularly as surrounding soldiers may have interfered.

Now, had he taken his "no mercy ever again" thing to Lawful Stupid levels and, say, executed a jaywalker, then that's a "paladin falls" sort of thing. But, simply killing a bandit known to go straight back to banditry after release in a war-like environment is a reasonable call.

>> No.38641295

>>38641017
>constant stream moral quandries to solve
>DM finally brings back one of them to haunt you
>makes a dubious call on you falling as a result of it

Yeah, the DM was out to make you fall. Eventually he'd have found something that met his own increasingly liberal criteria for that.

>> No.38641537

>>38637494

Paladin of Vengeance here, with a public service announcement: holding onto forgiveness is like drinking poison and expecting the other person to die.

>> No.38641839

>>38641537

Vengeance is not the preserve of the Paladin. Justice is.

One does not 'hold onto' forgiveness. Forgiveness is a release, when one lets go of base emotions such as wrath, fear, jealousy, and yes, vengeance, in the name of mercy, the redemption of the sinner, and the ongoing greater good. It is not a frivolous thing to be granted out of squeamishness or naivity. It is a noble thing to be given as due, by those who have mastered themselves, to those who wish to better themselves.

>> No.38641972

>>38641839
5e, Vengance is an actual pally path. You're a combo between Judge Dread and Inspector Javert.

>> No.38641995

I want a Sikh paladin (D&D 3.5). What proficiencies do I need?

>> No.38642123

>>38641839

Justice isn't always possible. If a people can barely afford to feed themselves, asking them to incarcerate someone who struck down an able-bodied worker, is asking them to flagellate themselves for this individual's sin. Executing the murderer may not be the most just action, but it's the most merciful, both for the people he wronged, and for the murderer himself who could only earn their further resentment by being suffered to live.

Forgiveness is a different matter. You may perhaps be ready to forgive someone, but you're impotent if the offender is unwilling to be forgiven. When a man is unrepentant, forgiving him is only spiting yourself.

>> No.38642403

>>38642123
>Justice isn't always possible

It is the Paladin's job to make it possible. Spare me your defeatest cynicism.

>Forgiveness is a different matter. You may perhaps be ready to forgive someone, but you're impotent if the offender is unwilling to be forgiven. When a man is unrepentant, forgiving him is only spiting yourself.

As I said, "It is a noble thing to be given as due, by those who have mastered themselves, to those who wish to better themselves."

>> No.38642575

>>38642403

On this we agree: not all wish to better themselves. You can't expect someone to hold out indefinitely for an opportunity to grant forgiveness that will never come. Revenge may be an inferior release, but sometimes it's the only release.

>> No.38642942
File: 41 KB, 409x594, 1413225672742.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
38642942

>>38641995
Dunno bro, but it'll be pretty sick.

More seriously, from what little I know of Sikhism it'll focus mainly on protecting others. And you'll definitely need a dagger, even if you never use it.

>> No.38643340

The main problem with LG characters is that way too many of them fall into an oversimplified niche of bland heroism, reminiscent of particularly shallow and boring heroes from kids' stories. Try giving LG the same amount of flexibility you'd give other alignments: The blood-soaked tyrant reigning over his Evil Empire in a big spiky tower is Lawful Evil, and has an obvious heroic opposite in the Paladin. But the manipulative, wheeling-and-dealing devil who tricks mortals out of their souls with supernatural contracts that are 90% fine print is LE too, and what's the Lawful Good answer to that?

That archetype is probably my favorite kind of character: A scheming, deceptive hero, the kind that runs verbal loops around people without ever *technically* lying. Not the judgmental, holier-than-thou holy warrior, but the pedantic smartass who is just as willing to abuse loopholes as the baddies are, because they don't give a damn about the 'spirit of the law': The Law is the Law, regardless of what anyone wants it to be, and everything else is just interpretation. If someone misinterprets Law, or something you said or promised, you're under no obligation to correct their mistake, especially if that error is going to end up saving lives, and the best way to deal with most villains is to give them enough rope to hang themselves with.

The main trickster deity in the setting my group runs, a champion of ridiculing and undermining the corrupt and powerful, is actually Lawful Good, not Chaotic, and is the patron of lawyers, scholars, and civil servants alongside bards, poets, and fast-talking folk heroes. It's all well and good to destroy evil, to purge it in combat with faith and steel, but it's also perfectly within the domain of Lawful Good, but oftentimes it can be more effective to sabotage it, to confuse and frustrate malevolence, to dismantle dark forces with nothing but words--And words really are the best weapons for Lawful Good.

>> No.38643522

>>38643340
I don't really like that idea. Scheming and deceit isn't really good, and abusing the spirit and letter of the law is something even most Lawful Evil characters don't do. They'll usually hold to certain moral codes - they don't like killing children, for instance - or they'll use the letter of the law to legitimize what they're doing, like a prince who murders his older brothers to make sure he succeeds the throne, or a magistrate who takes advantage of some very old laws to gain power over his rivals.

>> No.38643570

>>38643340

Paladin's aren't focused around honing their own physical skills like a warrior, they don't invoke the aid of powerful entities like clerics, and they don't channel supernatural forces like a wizard. A Paladin needs only to be connected with the abstract concept of Lawful Good to work their wonders. They live and die for concepts that have no bearing on tangible reality, things like Justice, and Honor, that don't matter outside of the minds of thinking beings, and yet which obviously still *exist* in some sense. They take the reality of thought and impose it on physical existence; When they use their powers, they aren't just applying force on a mass of iron to drive it into another organic mass, they are Smiting some motherfucking Evil with a capital-S-Sword in terms of objective reality, not just of words we use to label a series of physical events. A Paladin is the living embodiment of mind over matter, of making an uncaring universe recognize the ideas of us tiny mortals, and it pisses me off to see people play them as incapable of nuanced thought.

Lawful characters aren't helplessly bound to obey their leaders, cultures, or families, because they respect Rules enough to hold them to *standards*. There is no intractable conflict when a Lawful character must do something taboo, or cannot do something demanded of them; How can mere tradition, a slipshod system of unspoken common understandings, have any sovereignty over a servant of objective, sovereign Law? Paladins don't need to waste anyone's time agonizing over how to satisfy all their obligations: A Lawful alignment means your principles exist outside of the situations you must apply them in, and you know they come before anything else. Respect for precedent, public opinion, and the laws of temporary little states comes after.

This is just my personal reinterpretation, of course. The important thing to remember is that there are more kinds of Lawful Good than Superman or Adam West's Batman.

>> No.38643820

>>38643570
I'm not saying I want paladins to be stupid, but it honestly sounds like you're trying to make them into diety-powered wizards or something with the mind over matter stuff.

What a paladin most essentially does, aside from hit things, is believe in his diety's ideals really really hard. Just because they have their own moral code, or their own views on the world, doesn't make them above everything else. Otherwise they'd be some sort of angel, instead of a normal being working alongside fellow mortals.

>> No.38643900

>>38637758
Saved. I have to show this to my players.

>> No.38644069
File: 171 KB, 1546x1250, 1423604005145.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
38644069

I found a paladin story for you, /tg/. Give me a sec and I'll try to dig out some more that haven't already been shared.

>> No.38644110
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38644110

>> No.38644134
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38644134

>> No.38644318

>>38637941
Best way to deal with a herp-derp perledern player

>> No.38644394
File: 761 KB, 1264x5120, 1423473275042.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
38644394

Not exactly a paladin, but close.

>> No.38644879

>>38643522
It's fine if you don't like the idea of Paladin: Attorney at Law, this was more a personal take. In defense of Pedantic Paladinry, I'd say the difference between invoking the letter of the law against its spirit for good ends and doing so for bad ends is precisely the difference between LG and LE.

For example:

LE:"And it says right here executive power transfers to the Regent in the event of the king's death, and the Regent's Assistant -yours truly- is automatically promoted to Regent in the event of the Regent's death. The Regent's tragic and mysterious demise happened fifteen minutes before the king's, therefore I am Acting Monarch. Any further objections, Notary Thalmond?"

LG:"Well, I can't argue with that. Do you have the Bill of Office for the Regent?"

"Right here."

"Okay... Lord Blackwood is no longer the Regent's Assistant."

"... You still have to register everything else."

"I'm sorry, sir, who are you?"

"Thalmond, don't be tiresome, you know me personally-"

"I'm sorry sir, I can't allow access to court documents on the basis of any personal relationship. What is your position at court?"

"I'm the damn Acting Monarch!"

"Really? When did this happen?"

"I-I was Regent when king died!"

"The Regent? Do you have your Bill of Office?"

"I JUST GAVE IT TO YOU!"

"Yes, you *just* *gave* it to me. You did not *submit* it to the Office of the Notary, which requires saying 'Notary, I am submitting the Bill of Office for the Regent to be updated.' and placing it in the tray. I mean, no one bothers doing that anymore, but this seems important. You haven't legally identified yourself to me."

"I... have my other identification as Regent's Assistant, and can request that you turn over the Bill-"

"I'm sorry sir, this seems to be outdated. As of forty five seconds ago, Lord Blackwell is no longer the Regent's-"

"YOU SAID THAT WASN'T LEGALLY SUBMITTED!"

"And yet the Notary still updated the Regent's Assistant office! He's gonna get written up."

>> No.38644948

>>38639804

It's probably a fake story anyway so I wouldn't get too worked up.

>> No.38645189

>>38638763
Preach it!

>> No.38647421

>>38637494
Easy.

You're after the guilty. You're not batman, and unless you're on a crusade, you have a goal in mind.

Taking Pathfinder code, here's an example.

Your setting has to do with taking down cultists? Your paladin wouldn't turn 180 and start sprinting towards the world wound because there's evil there.

As a paladin, you have your code. A strict set of rules you stubbornly stick to, but you still have to direct those rules towards an end, or you fall into the lawful stupid category. You're a tool of your deity, and don't forget that.

>> No.38647456

>>38637494
His deity defines what is lawful and what is good. Everything else falls under that umbrella as far as he's concerned.

>> No.38647762

>>38644394

This story is fake as shit

>> No.38647770

>>38647456

A Paladin is not dependent on a deity.

>> No.38647798

>>38637494
Dem criss-crossed tittays

>> No.38647853

>>38638840
> be willing to break a law if it's unjust and causing harm, and there is no legal way to make it right
> and there is no legal way to make it right
> you actually acknowledged and remembered that part
If the rest of Lawful Good were as conscientious as you, I wouldn't have such suspicion of the alignment.

>> No.38648215
File: 330 KB, 1280x912, tumblr_n48y2zaevY1rkya1ko1_1280[1].jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
38648215

>>38637494
You want to play a female paladin that isn't lawful stupid? Simple: smite the English. There are only two kinds of people on this world: the English, and the people who smite the English. God greatly favors the latter.

>> No.38648259

>>38648215
>french
>not stupid
good joke

>> No.38648359

>>38647853

The Law a LG character follows always let them do the right thing.

Being Lawful Good doesn't mean you have to follows rules or laws even when go against Good, it means that you follow a set of rules and laws that help people

>> No.38648399

>>38637823
It means the person uttering the statement is either antimoral (perish the thought) or some kind of secondary schooler hopped up on internet.

>> No.38648419

>>38637904
Fits in with the "Pelor of the Burning Hate" theory.

>> No.38648422

>>38640929
If you don't know, you've already fallen, Anon.

>> No.38648464

>>38637494

Why did she go out without her armor on? She's just wearing her undies. Is she posing for a naughty calendar?

Why can't Japan draw fully clothed characters?

>> No.38648536

>>38648419

Why can't people accept good deities being good?

At least 5e got it right

>> No.38648555

>>38640929
>>38641061
>>38641157
The Paladin didn't fall because of this action, but because his belief in mercy was shattered.

>> No.38648556

>>38648536
Nobody said Pelor wasn't good. Just that, maybe he wasn't always good.

Fucking hell, what is more appropriate than being a Paladin of a redeemed god, who does good despite being evil? And maybe, sometimes, his Paladins can do evil despite being "good" because it serves his purposes of the Greater Good?

>> No.38648575

>>38648555
This is what I got out of it. Remember, always ask yourself "What would Vimes do?"

Remember Carter? "I can see your house from here" Carter? Without a doubt evil and beyond redemption Carter?

If the Paladin had killed him because he was unable to capture him, it would have been different. But he killed him out of revenge.

>> No.38648578
File: 43 KB, 357x498, Eisenhorn6.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
38648578

>>38637494

Pic related

Play the paladin as a fanatical follower of his religion/personal doctrine.

Having a Fanatical murder machine in a group always make negotiations so much fun.

Or if you're playing 3.x just play a god dam crusader.

>> No.38648617

>>38648536
Christianity.

>> No.38648640

>>38643340
You just described dresden

>> No.38648667

>>38648556

A reedemed god would be Good, and an exemple for everyone who doubt redemption is possible. A Paladin can't do evil to do good, as it is neutral at best.

Also, the ones who do things for a so-called "Greater Good" often forget that is imply there is lesser goods they are ignoring because it's not convenient to care about them

>> No.38648672

>>38648556
But why paladin for Pelor? He's not even the best Paladin god in that setting. Heironeous is, nigga.

>> No.38648715

>>38637494
In a party of murder hobos, the Paladin will have to be a derpy smite until fall charicature.
If your players aren't mature enough, or inclined, to handle moral questions, just ignore it.
It hasn't been an impressive class for over a decade now.

>> No.38648718

>>38648672

Why does people think Paladins are tied to gods ?

They aren't

>> No.38648795

>>38648667
A Paladin can't do evil, but a Blackguard can. Hence, a Blackguard of Pelor.

And who gives a shit about the other, lesser gods? You're a Blackguard of Pelor.

>> No.38648830

>>38648718
yeah, but if you were going to pick one, pick the Literally Lawful Good As Fuck god, not some Neutral Good Sunfaggot.

>> No.38648909

>>38648795

Pelor does not support evil. There can't be Blackguards of Pelor.

And I said lesser goods, not lesser gods. A Good deity wouldn't put one good act above another

>> No.38648930
File: 245 KB, 985x1443, 1409953498641.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
38648930

>>38648464
They can, but sometimes choose not to. Here's an actually dressed paladin.

>> No.38649009
File: 48 KB, 528x376, AstridRD.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
38649009

>>38648930
Always muh Titania, never muh Astrid, Marcia, Tanith, etc.

>> No.38649013

>>38637494
It's really fucking simple. Make them a character other than "paladin". In my experience, people tend to heavily emphasize the most important aspects of a character they play, which is why a bard who is a "womanizer" tries to fuck everything in sight, and a wizard who is "unhinged" becomes a cackling loon.

A far as paladins go, they start with the generic base of what a paladin should be, but instead of giving the paladin their own personality to emphasize and play off of, they ramp up paladin stereotypes to the extreme.

Don't define your character solely by class.

>> No.38649052

>>38648464
No idea. It's like they've never even seen a women with clothing.

>> No.38649077
File: 19 KB, 306x394, 5273.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
38649077

>>38649052
That's weird. Pic didn't attach.

>> No.38649123
File: 21 KB, 293x299, I like where this is going.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
38649123

>>38638840
Thanks for being logical and clear and helpful.

>> No.38649294

>>38649052
Otaku rarely do, and they're the ones flooding the creation industries.

>> No.38649384

>>38649077
How is Siegmeyer related to this thread?

>> No.38649412

>>38649384
That's his daughter, ya dense cunt.

>> No.38649886

>>38648909
Symbol of Pain, bitch. Pelor confirmed for supporting evil.

>> No.38652457

>>38649077
Real armor has curves.

>> No.38652487

>>38648464
>Why did she go out without her armor on?

Because not everything is designed to appeal to your sense of historical realism. Some things focus on conveying a particular aesthetic instead.

>> No.38652514

>>38648464
>>38649052

Do you have autism ?

>> No.38652788
File: 572 KB, 2082x598, Genshin07.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
38652788

>>38648464
Because they don't like people dressed in similar stuff.

2nd one to the left is a paladin.

>> No.38652849

>>38648718

It depends on the setting you're taking them from. Not all paladins are the same in every setting.

>> No.38652855

>>38649384
>How is Sieglinde related to this thread?

ftfy

>> No.38652932

>>38652514
Yes, but the post directly below it is also me.

>> No.38652974

>>38637494
Spoony had a moderately good Counter Monkey video on it (for once). Lawful doesn't mean "Follows the letter of the law fanatically without the slightest room for divergence". It means that you PREFER to follow the Law, especially those that are (at least by your or your Pantheon's definition) Just. If someone J-Walks and the law in your town for such is death, looking the other way would not only be expected but ENCOURAGED of you, especially if you go so far as to seek reason as to why that law exists in the first place.

Lawful Good characters can even be Lawful in a pious / personal code-of-conduct sense, not written law (as who is to say those drafting such laws are not merely seeking to exploit their authority?).

A Lawful Good character refrains from things such as thievery when possible, is not a rebellion INSTIGATOR, doesn't slay innocents just because "lol they have an awesome item I want", etcetera. They can quite readily determine someone's wealth was attained through unscrupulous means (and attempt to repossess it in a preferably legal / morale manner), PARTICIPATE in a rebellion, or even argue that someone's misfortune is - at the end - necessary for the Greater Good, if also something they are visibly plagued over and seek atonement for after.

Basically: Don't play Judge Dread.

>> No.38653089

>>38638763
>There is literally no difference between a Paladin and any other class that has an alignment.

That's not true, though. A Paladin's code is significantly stricter than just "be Lawful Good".

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