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38594232 No.38594232 [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

THE HEKTOR HERESY is a collaborative effort by various anons who wondered 'what if' during a create a Legion Thread. Since then it's developed into a fully fledged Alternate Universe that still needs some work. While we're full on Legions (Though many need work done upon them), such is the nature of the project that we've lost a few anons along the way. Ask in the thread how you can contribute to the Imperial War Machine!

Don't wanna be an Imperial, don't care for beakies? Not to worry!
We welcome all here,
Xenos Empires, Great Crusade Era Factions, Knight Houses, Titan Legions, Chapter Successors, Imperial Army Regiments, Eldar, Dark Eldar, anything and everything just come in and pitch it to be a part of the setting itself.

With that out of the way, here is our main wiki page, to get a feel for things:
http://1d4chan.org/wiki/The_/tg/_Heresy

ITT: We discuss what we're doing with our abandoned legions

>> No.38594314

>>38594232
I'm willing to replace the beast master legion with something else as a part of a partnership?

>> No.38594339

>>38594314
Are you talking about the Scale Bearers?

>> No.38594345

>>38594314
Beast master Legion? You mean the Sala--the Scale Bearers?

>> No.38594354

>>38594314
What beast master legion?

>> No.38594368

>>38594314
>>38594339
>>38594345
>>38594354
I'm gonna take a wild stab in the dark and assume Scale bearers too.

>> No.38594395

>>38594314
No. That is bullshit. If the Scale Bearers are a dead letter, we cut them. If Merrill wants to rebuild them because they're critical to Iron Rangers fluff, we help him. They are not an excuse for throwing another incomplete Legion into the mix. LCK is only getting away with that because (ill-considered) promises were made to him.

>> No.38594423

>>38594395
I'm with the Froggie one on this.

>> No.38594426

>>38594345
>>38594339
>>38594314
If the Scale Bearers are what you're talking about I want to voice the fact that I find their idea retarded and not viable.

I understand dinosaur riders are cool and stuff, but lizards can't fight tanks effectively. It's explicitly stated in lore that they just become biker chapter because all the dinos die. So what was the point of having them be dino themed in the first place?

I dunno. I see something of them just being Dino-patterned fast attack, but why not just have them be reworked to be not so lame?

>>38594395
They are a dead letter.

>> No.38594436
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38594436

>>38594254
>>38594313
Explain to me the virtue of a "coherent" canon that cuts out cool ideas just because nobody's working on them.

>> No.38594458

>>38594426
>What's the point of having them din themed in the first place

1. Dinosaurs are awesome
2. Avoid being dino-rider Legion because that's dumb
3. Avoid being wolf wolf wolf wolf.

>> No.38594476

>>38594436
Besides lack of clutter, and no need to drag dead weight?

>> No.38594482

>>38594426
When I first heard of the Scale Bearers I assumed they would be the "Spiritual Lieges" of this AU. I thought when they said Scale they meant the weighing thing Lady Justice beats mofo's with.

>> No.38594488

>>38594436
It leaves room for cool ideas down the line.


Just because there was no Shark Themed legion didn't mean there couldn't be the Carcharodons.

We need to create something that people can come back to and expand off of in a structured way.

In essence, I want the Hektor Heresy to have fan- fiction.

>> No.38594507

>>38594436
>Explain to me the virtue of a "coherent" canon that cuts out cool ideas just because nobody's working on them.
But nobody holds that position. Talk about cutting Legions has always meant converting them into Successors or Warbands.

>> No.38594520

>>38594458
As opposed to Wyvern Gryphons?

Fuuuuck.

I have the overwhelming urge to make centaurs a thing again.

>>38594488
I have Slaaneshi Space Pirate Vlad the Impaler Biker successors post-heresy

>> No.38594522

>>38594476
How does clutter hurt a project where everything is read selectively?

>>38594488
The Hektor heresy *is* fan-fiction

>> No.38594524

>>38594436
What ideas are so "cool" that the overall quality of the AU has to be dragged down just to fit them in? I think the word you're looking for there is "edgy".

>> No.38594549
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38594549

>>38594488
> I want the Hektor Heresy to have fan- fiction.

Even slash-fiction?

>> No.38594552
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38594552

>>38594524

>> No.38594554

>>38594458
1. Yes
2. Yes
3. Cannot work with the first two really.

>>38594507
This.

>>38594522
Yeah? So? It can be developed as fan-fiction it has it's own fan-fiction.

If you want every idea to be included we can get to that later. We're creating the founding parts of our worldbuilding. This comes first then you can start adding in *everything*.

>> No.38594558

>>38594520
Actually, I had an idea for a dragon chapter for months.

>> No.38594572

>>38594426
>I understand dinosaur riders are cool and stuff, but lizards can't fight tanks effectively

Super-tough skin. They're dino-like but not exactly. Besides, noting saying the SBs can't strap cannons to the back of a sauropod and have Squads hang off the side using the thing as a troop transport.

>> No.38594574

>>38594520
>I have the overwhelming urge to make centaurs a thing again.
One of the Traitor Regiments has a guy that's kinda like a centaur.

>> No.38594592

>>38594558
...Must...resist.

...

>> No.38594596

>>38594572
Except all of them die in the Crusades and Heresy. So they don't have dinosaurs to ride on. Or a leg to stand on.

>>38594549
Yes

>> No.38594598

>>38594558
And you haven't proposed them why? Just as long as they're not green.

>> No.38594605

>>38594572
They're like giant squigs, but without being disgusting and orky.

>> No.38594615

Re-posting the voting from last thread. On the matter of cuts, please link to this post with your option.

>Option A: Lumey's Original plan
Cut 6 legions: The BB, Gorgers, Horns of Ruin, Scions of Europa, The Entombed, and The Crusaders

>Option B: Alex's plan.
Cut 4 Legions: As above, keeping The Entombed and the BB/Gorgers as a merged legion.

>Option C: Lumey's Plan II
Cut 6 Legions: The Horns of Ruin, Scions of Europa, The Crusaders, The Mastodontii, and the Scale Bearers

>Option D: Cut Nothing

B: 3 Votes (Alex, Lumey, Voidy)
D: 1 Vote (Golgothos)

1 abstention (Merril)

>> No.38594620

>>38594592
do it.

>> No.38594628

>>38594426
In the Grim Darkness of the far future, lizards can fight tanks effectively.

>> No.38594640

>>38594232
>>38594512
Posted some shit in the other thread. Little late to the party, but such is the Monday-sleepy worker's life.

If it's relevant or helpful to break ties or whatever, use it, if not, ignore it. Imma go sleep some more.

>> No.38594653

>>38594507
>But nobody holds that position. Talk about cutting Legions has always meant converting them into Successors or Warbands.
Given that successors/warbands are literally ignored, it effectively amounts to the same thing. Also...why even do that?

>>38594524
>What ideas are so "cool"
>A legion modeled on crusader-states with Nazi coloration and feel
>A legion of dinosaur beastmaster
>A legion of cannibals who turn to cannibalize their own empire
>A legion of people from an iceworld who deck their giant tanks in furs and tusks
How are any of the ideas not cool?

>> No.38594657

>>38594615
WHY ARE WE CUTTING THE HORNS
also the entombed MUST STAY

>> No.38594675

>>38594620
BEHOLD IT IS I!

Totally not-aubrey, Ho-Sun!

>>38594615
B, but this is going to be another re-write for Zealots and Aubreys character

>> No.38594693

>>38594628
the exodites literally ride dinosaurs

>> No.38594708

>>38594598
It's not that I didn't propose them. We even had a debate on whether a power-armored marine could fly one. It just isn't their time, and honestly I was saving them just in case we changed our minds about no more legions.

That's a fat chance, needless to say.

>> No.38594715
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38594715

>>38594640
Also, I randomly found an IRL picture that kinda fits my general idea of Arelex a lot, if you add about 700 pounds of Primarch-muscle, take away the hair, and put him in some power armor.

How bout that. Wish I'd had this pic to send Remembrancer-bro.

>I miss him.

>> No.38594723

>>38594653
They're ignored RIGHT NOW. And they won't be in the future. Kiddies can come and see them and play in the sandbox we built later.

They're all cool, but none of them have nearly enough work. We want to make progress. And we can't while they sit dead in the water.


I just don't see the Scale Bearers much differently than how I see the Yiffs right now. At least in terms of complexity of ideas.

>> No.38594725

>>38594657
They have no content and no writer.

>> No.38594747

>>38594640
Blood Asps always relevant.

>>38594653
>successors/warbands are literally ignored
By you. There's a passing interest from the rest of the project, but due to the setting not being past the Reformation yet there's not a lot one can say about Chapters and Warbands. Their time has yet to come.

>why even do that?
We've actually had former project-anons come in and say that they appreciated it. So, I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that it's a gesture of respect.

>>38594675
http://1d4chan.org/wiki/Fire_Breathers
Just saying.

>> No.38594751

>>38594653
Personally, I'd work on the Mastadontii if we make them a warband or chapter.

>> No.38594755

>>38594725
vetrovnak anon is working on it
besides, they are incredibly important to the Stone Men

>> No.38594802

>>38594747
More lkke MOUTH BREATHERS, amirite?

>> No.38594805
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38594805

>>38594723
>They're ignored RIGHT NOW. And they won't be in the future. Kiddies can come and see them and play in the sandbox we built later.
We're the kiddies and we're playing in a sandbox right now.

>They're all cool, but none of them have nearly enough work. We want to make progress. And we can't while they sit dead in the water.
Cutting isn't progression, it's regression. My primary concern is I don't see anything being GAINED by cutting legions. If they're underdeveloped...so what? What does that hurt? And how do things IMPROVE by having nothing instead of something underdeveloped?

>Personally, I'd work on the Mastadontii if we make them a warband or chapter.
...but you wouldn't work on them if they were a Legion? ...what?

>> No.38594822

>>38594715
Likewise. I've wanted to change so much about Voids face recently.

>> No.38594843

>>38594653
>What ideas are so "cool"
>A legion modeled on crusader-states with Nazi coloration and feel
>A legion of dinosaur beastmaster
>A legion of cannibals who turn to cannibalize their own empire
>A legion of people from an iceworld who deck their giant tanks in furs and tusks

Their concepts are admittedly cool, but nothing has been done with them for months. The Crusaders were never fleshed out the way Gaudin-anon promised, the Scale Bearers have the least content of all the Legions, the BloodGorgers are currently being worked on by LCK and I've repeated several times that I don't want to see them cut, and the Mastodontii haven't been utilized or fleshed out in any way for even longer than the Crusaders and are being usurped in their purpose by the Lions Rampant.

Now this isn't to say that they can't be revived in the future as famous/infamous Chapters, Warbands, what-have-you in the future when we have actually laid down a foundation.

>> No.38594878

>>38594805
Legions are important to the story as a whole. Each Legion, if properly done, will have lingering effects that echo down the entire timeline.

Having blank Legions with little content is like having missing threads in your tapestry, it leaves a gap all the way down the weave. And if you go ahead and weave anyway, you can't go back and re-insert a thread without great effort.

>> No.38594897

>>38594805
>How does a vehicle move more quickly when it's designed to have 3 wheels instead of having a 4 wheels and a deflated tire?

>> No.38594901

>>38594755
Vetro is missing and we can have another legion be your rival legion, or they could be a warband/subculture of something else.

>>38594805
>>38594843
The whole point of making the cuts isn't getting rid of stuff because its bad, its getting rid of central factions with no existing writer whose concepts can be overtaken by others who already overlap. This is done in order to progress the plot forward.

>> No.38594939

>>38594843
I will literally start pumping out content like a motherfucker
I don't want to do it without permission or stepping on anyone's toes

>> No.38594951

>>38594675
Oh my god I can still remember when you put penises all over their page.

>> No.38594994

>>38594805
Legion is a lot bigger than warband. If it was my own idea then I'd be comfortable on the Legion level. Then again, we wouldn't be having this problem if that were the case.

Actually... I DO kinda like the Mastadontii. I'll read up on them again.

>> No.38595010

>>38594725
Maybe I'm the only one who feels this way but I don't see how that's a reason to cut something. It's a reason to improve something. At worst you can just leave it alone and have something just be underdeveloped.

>but nothing has been done with them for months
...So? I just fail to see why this is a problem.

>>38594878
>>38594897
>>38594901
I disagree with this mentality. You can, with ease, write about what your Legion does in 40k without knowing what the Horns of Ruin (for example) did in the heresy. Very little in the canon Heresy has any actual *specific* impact on 40k or most of the milennia between. The heresy as a whole has a broad impact, but the actions of the Salamanders (for example) don't reach far beyond the wiki page of the Salamanders.

>> No.38595038

EVERYONE ATTENTION PLEASE

I'm going ahead and writing out an outline based on proposal B for the Loyalist point of view for the Heresy, at least what happens leading up to the Siege of Terra and the War in Sol.

>> No.38595044

>>38595010
They do in the Heresy. Which we've resolved to deal with first.

>> No.38595048
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38595048

>>38594939
>I will literally start pumping out content like a motherfucker
Like I said in the last thread, I was hoping you'd do that to the Sororitas.

>> No.38595079

>>38594653
>A legion modeled on crusader-states with Nazi coloration and feel
They never became that. I wanted to see that too but it never even came close to happening.

>A legion of dinosaur beastmaster
They lose the one thing that makes them special.

>A legion of cannibals who turn to cannibalize their own empire
Their empire really should have seen that coming. They're currently being rewritten by LCK so that's ok.

>A legion of people from an iceworld who deck their giant tanks in furs and tusks
Their furs didn't stop their namefag, and then everyone else, from giving them the cold shoulder though did it?

>> No.38595093

>>38595038
Hold on. We're not remotely settled on whether the Horns of Ruin or LCK-Legion are in.

>> No.38595095

>>38595010
Who's going to do it? "Whoever comes along" isn't fair to the other people who have to work within the universe.
Not only are you giving up creative control of a collective project, you're giving it up to no one for no reason other than to keep it. It's a hoarder mentality and it's not what everyone wants.
You can't hold on to shit in the hopes that it might get done someday, otherwise it'll never get done and it'll just be a half-finished nothing forever. That may be fine for you, but it isn't ok with me and it isn't ok with everyone else either.

>> No.38595099

>>38595038
What about Pacificus?

>> No.38595121

>>38595044

Okay, what do you guys think the Scale Bearers need to do that they don't already do?

>> No.38595141

>>38595048
the duaghters of death will rise soon

>> No.38595149

>>38595010
>but the actions of the Salamanders (for example) don't reach far beyond the wiki page of the Salamanders.

And that's bad. Not a good example at all. It actually points more towards working together than anything to create a more living narrative that isn't so stale and lifeless.

>>38595079
>They're currently being rewritten by LCK so that's ok.
That IS the rewrite by LCK though.

>Their furs didn't stop their namefag, and then everyone else, from giving them the cold shoulder though did it?

[incoherent bitchy whining]

>>38595099
To sum it up in one sentence: Steel Marshals and Void Angels cooperation brotherhood manliness.

>> No.38595151

>>38595121
If someone here had a good answer to that, they'd already have written the Legion up.

>> No.38595152

>>38595079
I think a big part of the problem with the Mastadontii was that everyone got super mad with its namefag-shamed-into-anonhood when he was plagiarizing stuff.

I still with Loreanon would take a name again, he was really helpful for a lot of stuff, he just didn't trust his *own* writing abilities enough. Which is a shame since he knew so much stuff about the lore that I at least didn't.

>> No.38595162

I am loving how hyped up everyone is getting!
>>38594939
>>38595038
Woooo!!!

>> No.38595206

>>38595121
>Okay, what do you guys think the Scale Bearers need to do that they don't already do?

Look at their page and then the pages of any legion with an active contributor. Notice the difference? How you fill in those gaps is up to you, if you feel up to it and your writing isn't shit.

>> No.38595238

>>38595151

Looking at the wiki though, they spend the Heresy fighting the Iron Rangers, and Merrill kills their Primarch. They already do stuff.

>> No.38595244

>>38595151
>>38595121
Everyone agrees that they should keep their dino's though? And they're still a Biker Legion? Or maybe they should be less Dino more Dragon? Dragon Airforce spitting hot fiyah?

>> No.38595267

>>38595162
I would do stuff for other legions if I was asked to
I don't want infuse my special brand of crazy into them without permission

second thought: what if the scale bearers actually rode super space lizards

>> No.38595284
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38595284

>>38595079
>They never became that. I wanted to see that too but it never even came close to happening.
So make it happen instead of making nothing happen.

>They lose the one thing that makes them special.
So give it back

>>38595095
>otherwise it'll never get done and it'll just be a half-finished nothing forever. That may be fine for you, but it isn't ok with me and it isn't ok with everyone else either.
...why?

>>38595149
>And that's bad. Not a good example at all. It actually points more towards working together than anything to create a more living narrative that isn't so stale and lifeless.
You guys have been working with this strange fallacy for a long time that you're making "40k but better." A handful of assholes on 4chan are not going to make a better narrative than a cadre of professional writers writing full-scale novels. It's absurd. It's vanity, pure and simple. Stop aiming so high, come down here and write at the level we're actually at: amateur fanfiction.

>> No.38595289

>>38595149
What's our strategy though?
>>38595152
Wait, Loreanon is Mastadontii Anon?!

>> No.38595291

>>38595244
all of it. have their dragon/dino mounts be BETTER than their mechanical counterparts

>> No.38595332

>>38595291
>have their dragon/dino mounts be BETTER than their mechanical counterparts
By Jove! That's so crazy it may just work!

>> No.38595337

>>38595289
Unless I'm much sleepier and more forgetful than I thought, yeah. He had a name, then renounced it out of shame at being called out for plagiarizing some stuff.

>> No.38595385

>>38595289
>Wait, Loreanon is Mastadontii Anon?!
He was, yes.

>>38595267
I think this is a big deterrent to anons just dropping off ideas. They don't want to step on the namefags toes.

>> No.38595402

>>38595284
I think the difference in opinions on what the project ought to be isn't something that can be settled by argument. It is pretty clear that you are in a minority here, and while you certainly have the right to advocate for your position I'm not getting much of a vibe that you're prepared to abide by the decisions of the majority.


>>38595337
No, he never used a handle. It annoyed you back then, too.

>> No.38595424

>>38595402
>I'm not getting much of a vibe that you're prepared to abide by the decisions of the majority
When have I ever not?

>> No.38595425

>>38595332
the mechanicus be all hatin n' shit but im like "fuck you im on a dinosaur"
then I leave that nerd in the dust on my veloci-raptor

I'm against cutting legions because I have a special attatchment to them
although I still think the eyes of the emperor should have a more definite theme
I tliked the aestheticism/romanticism angle

>> No.38595434

>>38595141
Will they still be Empero-sexual flammenwerfers? Because the Sons of Fire, despite being Traitors, already have that on lock. The flammen, not the Empero-sexual part.

>> No.38595453

>>38595337
So his shame drove him to hide his identity, continuing his service and imparting wisdom as needed?

Is this... TARKUS?

>> No.38595471

>>38595425
The Eyes of the Emperor and the Sand Keepers are hanging on, but not by much. If peoples are reviving the Dead Legions they should save these guys too.

>> No.38595475

>>38595434
We don't have noise marines...

>> No.38595499

>>38595453
>So his shame drove him to hide his identity, continuing his service and imparting wisdom as needed?

Rarely does he come by, I don't think he has been for a few threads now.

>> No.38595511

>>38595424
Well, you said in the Holdfast debate that you would leave rather than submit to, "What the group wants, the group gets. Different people get to advocate for their own ideas, but the consent of the majority is what determines the way forward."

Have you changed your mind, or do you just not think that things work that way?

>>38595471
They both compare favourably to the Steel Marshals. I'm not saying that we should cut Roman's men, but the Eyes and SKs are better-off for content.

>> No.38595527

>>38595475
>We don't have noise marines...
This is true, I'm just not sure how it relates to my post. I also just assumed that, as Slaaneshi's, the Lions would eventually take up that mantle.

>> No.38595547

>>38595289
Void Angels go on a campaign of suppression to stamp out the Traitor elements in Pacificus. Steel Marshals attempt to penetrate into Sol, but are stopped by the Lions Rampant, turned back around towards Rosskar to save it from being destroyed. Void Angels arrive as Rosskar was the last point of Astartes backed resistance in the Segmentum. The Conference of Rosskar then happens, with a three pronged assault coming at Solar from Pacificus. Roman leads one, Lumey another, with Konstantyn and JDO taking an Imperial Army battleforce. These all converge on Terra, where Roman and Lumey both have to hear of the atrocities Alexandri has permitted in the name of defending Sol.

>>38595434
There was a suggestion Sisters go into old Volkite weaponry, melta crazy, sonic weaponry, or all three combined.

>> No.38595552

>>38595424
What was that whole argument about the rights and responsibilities of individuals to the group in a community project, then?

>> No.38595556

>>38595527
Slaanesh doesn't always have to be served by Noise Marines. I think he means that the Sisters could focus on sonic attacks, since it is free.

>> No.38595559

>>38595511
>They both compare favourably to the Steel Marshals. I'm not saying that we should cut Roman's men, but the Eyes and SKs are better-off for content.
True, but that only means that all three needs love, not just the EotE and the Sk.

>> No.38595567

>>38595511
>Have you changed your mind, or do you just not think that things work that way?
The fact that I'm still here answers that pretty clearly. I'll argue my opinions and ideas hard, and you're rarely going to convince me I'm wrong, but when have I ever gone forward with something when the consensus was no?

>>38595552
An argument of my opinion?

>> No.38595572

>>38595434
here's my thinking
the sisters start out as a brutal death cult (think black sabbath and metallica had a love child that grew up to be a smokin' babe)
they come up rather suddenly, but take advantage of the apostasy by not only defeating a major SM chapter, but seiging holy terra itself.
eventually they get defeated, but they're so powerful and skilled the imperium (more specifically the ecclesiarchy) absorbs them in a constant condition of atonement. Because of the special nature of this atonement and the infighting between imperial offices, each department gets a small tithe of recruits to do whatever they want with (but the majority stay with the ecclesiarchy, although they have a bit more power and autonomy)

>> No.38595591

>>38595556
>>38595572
Sisters and Salamanders both do FIRE FIRE FIRE. Don't fall into the trap of "these guys do X so ONLY these guys can do X

>> No.38595594

>>38595547
>There was a suggestion Sisters go into old Volkite weaponry, melta crazy, sonic weaponry, or all three combined.
I did not see that! That sounds great! Volkite weapons are exceptionally rare though, and melta craziness is par for the course even for the OU Sisters. I would very much like to hear more about these sonic weapons though.

>> No.38595614

>>38595572
alright, I'm nodding off
don't kill each other and ask me if there's anything you guys want me to write for

>> No.38595618
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38595618

My computer is so shit that it's starting to overheat just from posting on 4chan. I'll be back in a while once it's cooled down.

>> No.38595633

>>38595591
>Don't fall into the trap of "these guys do X so ONLY these guys can do X
That's exactly the kind of stuff we're avoiding.

>> No.38595649

>>38595591
You have a good point. But, on the other hand, I still want an Imperial force that uses sonic weapons. The SoB seem like an ideal choice (hymns and prayers played at ear-splitting loudness at the enemy? Scripture guns? Yes please.

>> No.38595670
File: 688 KB, 734x737, In triplicate please.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
38595670

>>38595614
Good night! For ever.

>> No.38595672

>>38595567
You've gone ahead with the Entombed forming the Imperial Cult, and I don't think there's been a robust discussion on that. It's a huge deal and you just swiped it. You've also got the Entombed getting Terminators before the Tactical Dreadnought Project invented that technology. And of course, you included the scrap with the Heralds of Hektor despite objections in-thread.

In all of these you might say that most people had not weighed in, but that didn't entitle you to cast their votes.

>> No.38595694

I'm going to bed as well. I'll finish reading the Mastadontii tomorrow. Good night, Sergeant Tarkus.

>> No.38595720

>>38595618
That is really fucking cool. If only the arm holding the scythe didn't look retarded.

>> No.38595743

>>38595694
FFS! I always thought your name was Buzz Lightyear's nemesis! But it's not. And now I know. And nothing is the same anymore. The air looks different now.

>> No.38595755

>>38595672
>You've gone ahead with the Entombed forming the Imperial Cult
I explicitly haven't. I've put it in ideas I've posted on the thread. It may, through some neglect of my own, be on the wiki. But until I can come up with a version of it that is acceptable to the community, that shit aint canon.

>You've also got the Entombed getting Terminators before the Tactical Dreadnought Project invented that technology
If you're referring to Terminator Sacred Band, that's only still on the wiki because I haven't removed it yet. I agree with you that that's anachronistic.

>And of course, you included the scrap with the Heralds of Hektor despite objections in-thread.
That's on the wiki because my computer might crap out on me any day now and I want to have the draft saved. It's still an incomplete proposal and 90% of it is going to be scrapped because of things people said when I posted it.

>> No.38595783

>>38595743
It's Gary Oldman in The Fifth Element.

"For the caurse."

>> No.38595797

It's getting late, and the scratching at my door is sounding yellow now so I'm going to sleep. Good night everybody!

>> No.38595820

>>38595783
I literally just realized that.

>> No.38595862

>Just realize there's a new thread
>Holyshitballs text
>I'm fucking tired.
Alright, so I'm working with AtTheEarthsCore to try and get the SB page up to date. It's sparse, but it actually contains quite a bit of stuff for the project, it just needs to be fluffed out and cropped back in the right places. Aside from that, It'll have to be just about completely wiped and redone. We'll keep everyone updated and in the loop, I'm just tired and starting the real work in the morning.

>> No.38595965

>>38595755
>Imperial Cult
Right at the top of the page:
"Their inevitable doom eventually wipes them out, but not before crushing some xenos, swearing revenge on the Life Bringers, and helping to found the Imperial Cult."

I should add that every intervention by other anons into the Entombed is met with cursing and hostility. It's not just that you think you're right: you come across like other people are wrong even to question your ideas. The routine is so predictably unpleasant that even I am reluctant to discuss the Entombed with you unless you're way out of line.

>> No.38596215

>>38595965
Lumey, how do I rename a page? Is that possible?

I want to rename Alexey to Konstantyn. I mulled the name over a few times in my head, and I think it strengthens the character.

Also thoughts on: >>38595547

>> No.38596445

>>38596215
Not possible. New page and tag the old one for deletion.

>>38595547
Not what I had in mind for the Fifth. I figured that Legio Cataegis and Ghalhal (supported by Markian troopers) would be the main defenders of the Al-Sherar Sector in absence of the Legions of Al-Sherar and Ciban IV. I was also thinking that Lumey's forces get attacked out by Dolsene by [someone], and after the clash the Traitors proclaim their intention to raze Ciban IV. This is a ruse to distract the VAs from events in Segmentum Solar - and it does work.

As for the nemesis in question, the cuts have disrupted the scheme I presented last thread. In fact, I don't even know which cuts are now being enacted other than Bloodbound, Crusaders and Scions. If we can also removed the Mastodontii (leaving the Scale Bearers, LCK, and Horns of Ruin to be reviewed at a later date), then we have the Heralds of Hektor and LCK's Legion to match against the Void Angels and Silver Cataphracts. Both ways of doing this work. Do you have a preference?

>> No.38596552

>>38596445
That's what I was assuming. I'm imagining there is some time between relieving Al-Sherar and the Markian Pact then consolidating Ciban IV's strength, and moving to Rosskar. I never imagined much Traitorous presence in Pacificus due to Lumey and Alexandri's influence in the Segmentum, so it can be swept aside quickly enough to allow the Void Angels to have it done with by the time they link up with the Steel Marshals.

Let's give Vetro a week. Maybe a month? If not even a word pops up, we shall remove the Horns and put in LCK. Scale Bearers stay, as per my suggestion which has the most votes currently. I'd prefer if the Mastodontii stay, but if Vetro comes back I will cut them to let her have the Horns. LCK wins, Vetro wins, I compromise so everyone can win.

>> No.38596690

>>38596552
Look, I like Vetrovnak's writing but the main reason for the Horns to stay is that Onyx has insisted that the Stone Men need them. If Vetro's health stays fragile, then Onyx is capable of filling out the Horns. I'm sure that he'd be happy to build on the general pitch that Vetro made.

LCK has a decent claim on a Legion slot and failing a total breakdown in communications deserves a bit of patience.

So really, Mastodontii are on the block. Should LCK go to bits, you could revive Tollund's men. On that basis, I think Hektor vs. Gaspard and Camaxtli (Tollund?) vs. Alexandri is probably easier. (I'm sure you have plenty for Tollund vs. Alexandri and unpicking recent work is pretty frustrating).

>> No.38596800

>>38596690
I'll repeat again, I do have plenty of ideas for the Mastodontii because I was already lining up to work on them. Maybe I'm just not communicating, maybe it just doesn't matter, perhaps I should have jumped on them sooner. The Sons of Fire seemed more, pressing.

I actually really liked a narrative that Alexandri is hated by multiple people and has rivalries with Gaspard, Tollund, AND Hektor. Because that shit is fun as fuuuck.

>> No.38596857

>>38596800
>Mastodontii
The purpose of the cuts is to reduce workload. There's still a lot of clean-up and general timeline writing to be done.

>multiple rivalries
Not ruling that out, I'm just harking back to the idea that each Legion has a Nemesis to "centre" their Heresy story.

>> No.38597005

I'm barely awake right now. How do you people stay up so late?

Alex your post:
> I'd love it if LCK could save what he worked on for a warband with Camaxtli being the father to a Space Marine who would become the leader of a warband in the Mastodontii. That warband would be full Aztec themes out the wazoo. This all is in tune with my proposal here: >>38590988

Is noted, and is the backup plan if the group finds my rewrite to be inadequate.

Also this >>38596552 is surprising and appreciated. I will do my best to give you all something cool.

>> No.38597049

>>38597005
>How do you people stay up so late?
Insomnia.

>> No.38597065

>>38596857
Alright. That's all I can say in summary.

>>38597005
Glad to hear it man. I just want my Mastodontii to live.

>>38597049
I'm a chronic insomniac as well.

>> No.38597098

>>38597049
>>38597065
I do not envy you, but this also explains so much.

>>38597065
>Mastodontii
I understand.


I am signing off now. Laptops almost out of power and I'm not insomniac (I'm bipolar) I have ot have sleep to be functional.

>> No.38597193

>>38597065
So, now that the huge discussion over cuts has died down, can we return to the overlooked part of my suggestions? A friend of mine who had bounced some ideas back about Hektor suggested that the Sacred Band combined with the Warmaster's secular rebellion probably meant that Hektor would have supporters in almost all the Legions. I think this is logical, but it's also useful. We can then downplay the Thunder Kings' catastrophe, which seemed to appeal to Brennus. It also helps to explain how Gaspard Lumey goes from caustic outsider to the Imperium's "Man of Destiny" - he's lucky, or more accurately, Mamercus was unlucky.

>> No.38597262

>>38597193
I don't like it. It's a colossal tonnage of work and I'd prefer of the Sacred Band end up as their own players not wholly forced into agreeing with Hektor for the sake of drama. Some can, still though, but it's already stated every Legion had its trials with inside traitors and all the betraying Legions with their loyalists. The Sacred Band members can just be part of this simple summary of a massive event, but don't need to be the focal point of it.

>> No.38597307

>>38597193
>>38597262
That said I just realized I did have a Hektor based supporter in the 'Phracts own Sacred Band.

I wanted the Sacred Band not to be this organization you made it out to be but rather the name of ALL the Legionnaires who fought alongside Hektor on Terra. Eventually this becomes a sort of club in each Legion that people can have membership in if invited by an already accepted member. A secret society that is used to spread the will of Hektor in the Legions. But that got scrapped and I can't see it working in this function with the way the Sacred Band ended up being developed.

>> No.38597564

>>38597262
>It's a colossal tonnage of work
I'm not sure that it is. Hektor has established partisans in the Thunder Kings, Eyes of the Emperor, the Entombed, and the Steel Marshals.

>I'd prefer of the Sacred Band end up as their own players not wholly forced into agreeing with Hektor for the sake of drama.
I didn't suggest that directly, although I understand how you came to that conclusion.

>>38597307
>A secret society that is used to spread the will of Hektor in the Legions. But that got scrapped and I can't see it working in this function with the way the Sacred Band ended up being developed.
I don't really remember discussing that. I know that when the Sacred Band was pushed to the project I had in mind giving anons an idea of where their Legion started to frame the question, "How did you get from there to the pre-Heresy position?" That was worth doing, but the Sacred Band is no longer serving that purpose. If you'd like to convert the Sacred Band to a secret society (born from the military organisation, I take it?), I'm fine with it.

>> No.38597675

>>38597564
Nonono, what's done is done. That was my idea when the first concepts of the Sacred Band got suggested, as in 'What is the Warrior Lodge of this AU?'. I think Lore suggested that. Maybe Uriel. But at the end of the day, you gave a bang up proposal that was just different from what I thought at the time. I was going to write up the secret society born from military organization Sacred Band but by the time I was going to suggest it you had put in plenty of work. I'm not saying you cut me off, I'm saying that I lost an opportunity and you put in something better.

I can say the same for the Pacification of the Harakien Sector. I really wanted the 'Phracts to do that action... But I love what you did with it still, especially using it as JDO's jumping board.

What do you think of JDO teaming up with Konstantyn to give the IA time to shine?

>> No.38597757

>>38597675
Thing is, we're not looking at either-or. The Sacred Band you're talking about doesn't require rewriting anything that's established, just saying, "and then..."

>IA time to shine
It's the worst possible time for messing with the command structures of the Legions. Their moment is after the Reformation, when the Imperial Guard becomes the hammer of the Imperium.

>> No.38597810

>>38597757
Why? Konstantyn would be without an army, only able to lead those forces he can or is allowed to, and JDO should be trusted enough to command her own forces outside of just the Chassuers. On an additional note, the Heresy is exceptional for producing multiple examples of the IA going from garrison, mop-up force, to their own respectable outfit able of matching Astartes. A tradition used to jumpstart the Imperial Guard initiative.

>> No.38597937

>>38597193
>>38597307
I think the combination of ideas here is the best potential thing. The Sacred Bands are the warriors from each legion who served with Hektor on Terra, and as they move on some of them develop a secret cult of personality around Hektor that later gets exploited. They can induct marines from later times who fir their needs or feel as strongly about Hektor as they do. I mean, there were already a lot of references to betrayals within loyalist legions, even when I was just starting.

>> No.38597990

>>38597937
Please, I don't want to write that, or have others be forced to write that. Some Sacred Band being vectors of treason is fine. Having the Sacred Band transformed for the sake of plopping down Traitor stories everywhere taxes my abilities same as everyone else and ruins what we have in mind already.

>> No.38598068

>>38597810
Ah, right, so Kon is just an adventurer. Hmm. I had it in mind that Lumey's expedition towards Terra was based on the intelligence of the Eyes of the Emperor and the skill of the Void Angels' navigators (tested in the stars where the Astronomican's light grows dim). Unlike the other actions where the Legions deploy multi-chapter taskforces supported by IA, Lumey is in a position to gather up his whole Legion plus Legios Antsar and Cataegis, plus tens of millions of auxilia and concentrate that force. The Lions' Cordon, stretched thin by the Steel Marshals, holds up against this like a sheet of paper against an arrow.

>>38597990
Again, this isn't a requirement for exceptional writing. We have to rewrite the "Northern Massacres" stuff on the timeline for well-known reasons. Changing the tone from Massacre to Defection sharply distinguishes Hektor from Horus and gives us a kick start to the campaign. Alexandri's strong hand manages to bring the remaining Loyalists back under control, but there's anarchy at the outset of the rebellion.

Again: this is not additional writing. We have to have a start to Hektor's Heresy and what's on the wiki will not do.

>> No.38598177

>>38598068
Konstantyn is not just an adventurer. The not having his own army comment is a reference to the fact Rosskar is still getting razed to the ground and the near entirety of the Strelky, more than half, is dead and buried in the snow of their homeworld's radioactive wasteland.

I was thinking that without the SC to make the third prong, we could still have a three pronged assault but with an IA force because Roman and Lumey are cool dudes like that.

>> No.38598309

>>38597049
>>38597065
>>38597193
I can't get to sleep unless it's 5am as of late.
Unless I'm drunk.

But that's not a common thing.

>> No.38598320

>>38598068
>>38598177
Addendum: I'm contemplating the Sacred Band's secret society connotations now rather than refusing it, by the way.

Could we stop discussion for a moment? I want to make one uninterrupted text dump.

>> No.38598384

>>38598320
Dump it. I'm splitting my time between editing the Scale Bearer's history and following the thread, and I'd like a break.

>> No.38598395
File: 34 KB, 323x426, The Imperial Truth and Faith.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
38598395

>>38595038
>>38595093
>>38595162
The following is all of what I've written for the lead up to the Siege of Terra and various battles that take place there, I have more for all of it though, but I want to get these ideas which can be completed now out of the way. The War in Sol will not be discussed much. All of what is about to be suggested is just an outline. Any part of it can be edited at a later date and I'm open to suggestions for all of it. I want everyone, I mean, EVERYONE to read this stuff. I put a lot of thought and effort into it. I want to show people who say we're just a reskin, not worth producing our own material because we're going to be a 1:1 retelling of the Heresy with no alterations that they are WRONG, that we are creative enough to make something not only something just as entertaining, but better.

>> No.38598416
File: 425 KB, 540x580, tumblr_nim3bhvvmW1rvk550o2_540.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
38598416

>>38598395
>The Beginning of the End
At the end of the year 005.M31, word spreads of the Betrayal of Ostium, the Dropsite Massacre of Istvaan, and the Treason at Diamat. With the news arriving on Terra, the Emperor of Mankind decrees that Alexandri Ibirien will be named Emperor's Praetorian and charged with holding out until reinforcements from the legions of his loyal bretheren can arrive. In the same message, Onyx of Neolithis is named Emperor's Champion, charged with the arduous and central task of preparing the defenses of Terra for an unprecedented assault. Alexandri calls all available Primarchs together, eventually proving only to be himself, Golgothos, Onyx, and Darius. The discussion held shocks all those present.

Terra is to become a war-planet, the stone upon which Hektor's back will be broken. Sol shall be the lynchpin of a system-wide trap in which to hold the Arch-traitor, Hektor, until the Steel Marshals can arrive and the hopefully loyal Void Angels can be the tide breaking the traitors upon Onyx's stone. In order to do this, Golgothos radical beliefs are encouraged by Alexandri as to give faith to the people in a time of total peril. Before the meeting even began, the Legionnaires of the Silver Cataphracts had already been dispatched to Luna. Pacifying the satellite forcefully butchering the gene-wrights and levelling Hives to ensure complacency. Darius is told to train his psykers for war, alongside the Stone Men and the Silver Cataphracts, but they will not use their powers in warfare just yet. Once it becomes clear the Traitor Legions no longer following the Concordance of Nikaea, Alexandri officially suspends the decree until the crisis is over. The Primarch is forever referred to as 'The Regent' by most, for he acts as if he was the Emperor himself in the absence of the Imperium's rightful ruler.

>> No.38598442
File: 138 KB, 910x405, 1412919593021.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
38598442

>>38598416
With signs clear Hektor is indeed pressing onwards to Terra, Alexandri consigns the Segmentum Solar to death. Whole sections of space are cleared of life to leave his forces with nothing. No worlds to plunder, no recruits to gain. Every fall back action is followed by a destruction of everything, the Silver Cataphracts working tirelessly to hold the oncoming tide with the help of the indomitable Entombed as a hardened backbone aiding them hold off the hordes of Traitor forces. By the end of it all, half the Segmentum has been emptied of life. The Sand Keepers and Stone Men are mortified by these events, but Onyx and Darius are incapable of heeding the wishes of their Legions as Alexandri states out to all the Primarchs around him that any division on the Loyalist front at this time will spell disaster.

With the hour drawing near, Alexandri generates a propaganda campaign using images taken of the Emperor on the Golden Throne as fuel to light the message aflame. Secretly, Golgothos's humanity worship has only been allowed to spread via the Legion's serfs and Imperial Army auxiliaries to the general populace. Iterators sworn to the Regent disperse among the communities of Terra, betraying the Imperial Truth to give a message of hope to the people. To find strength in themselves with all reason points them to despair.

Propaganda posters have various sayings encouraging human citizens to remember that even the Emperor himself was suffering unceasingly for victory.

'HE FIGHTS FOR YOU, WILL YOU NOT FIGHT FOR HIM?'.

'YOU THINK YOU DESERVE TO BE HAPPY, WHAT ABOUT HIM?'.

'WORK WILL SAVE YOUR LIFE, AND HE WORKS TO SAVE YOUR'S!'.

>> No.38598461
File: 108 KB, 780x900, tumblr_mvxa71QgiL1t069vlo1_r1_1280.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
38598461

>>38598442
The universities of multiple worlds are shut down, learning is stopped in its tracks. Children are taught how to build munitions and weaponry rather than history or linguistics. Teens find themselves working their youthful bodies hard in order to train themselves into efficient combatants. Academics of all fields are retrained in new fields more useful to the state of war the Imperium is now finding itself in. By the time of the traitors' Siege, there are no non-combatants, all citizens of Terra are soldiers in one form or another

>THE WAR IN SOL
Need more time to know who's gonna be around or not for this. Have ideas certainly though. Mainly centering around two wars at Mars, two battles at Jupiter, one battle at Saturn, and one conflict at Venus.

>> No.38598484
File: 363 KB, 864x1584, tumblr_mvps9myCr81t069vlo1_1280.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
38598484

>>38598461
>The SIEGE OF TERRA
The preface of this needs to be decided about because I plan on tying the void-actions with the previous battles at Venus, Jupiter, and Saturn. Which will need more talks held to decide.

Several battles ensue over the course of the Siege of Terra. Defense of Appachinia Mountains, the Last Stand of Britonnica, the Firestorm of the Marianas Hive, the Charge at the Imperial Gates, the Razing of Urartu, and the Descent of the Lucens City-Barge. All of these battles would serve as the pivotal point of dogged campaigns on their own but on terra they were merely representative of the colossal nature of the conflict.

>Defense of Appachinia Mountains
The Appachinia Mountain Range along the eastern portion of the Merican Hives was home to sprawling complexes devoted to the extraction of resources from the very earth, eventually tapping into hidden magma flows, which would transform region from a nonrenewable power-producing factory chain into a stem of geothermal plants. The industry based here helped power numerous surface-to-void weaponry that could cover the whole of the Western Hemisphere. Cut off from any assistance, the humans of various Imperial Army Regiments dig in to make their stand. As the battle draws to a close with Traitor Legionnaires pulling in all around, the Appachinia range is destroyed causing a volcanic eruption on a scale unprecendented. The ash blocks out the sun for the remainder of the Siege. The Sun King had brought the death of the dawn.
.

>> No.38598503
File: 155 KB, 1280x921, tumblr_neerooPwWL1qips0fo1_1280.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
38598503

>>38598484
>Firestorm of the Marianas Hive
The oceans hadd been drained long ago on Terra, either by war or misuse. The home of the Pan-Pacific Empire rested in the Marianas Hive, a fortified city founded in the very earth. Hab-blocks had been built in the walls of the long since drained trench. It served as its capital, and was one of the greatest obstacles in the path to the Imperial Palace. The Heralds of Hektor with the Sons of Fire assaulted the Hive relentlessly, coming face to face with the guns of the combined Stone Men and Silver Cataphracts defense force. Finally due to the efforts of Vishtar of the Sons and Daedalus Appius of the Heralds, the trench was compromised and brought low. Hektor immediately capitalizes on the success and promotes both Astartes.

>Charge At he Imperial Gates
With the distraction of Marianas out of the way, and complications where arising on the push past Gyptus, Albia, and the Causcaus Wastes. Hektor orders his most fateful command in light of these developments, fearing what might happen if no progress is made soon towards Himalazia. All forces which can be spared will take part in a unprecedented, unyielding advance that will not stop until the speartip hits the Imperial Palace. The fighting passing over the former territory of the Pan-Pacific Empire, Hina, devolved not into a static conflict but a endless back and forth between the vehicles of the Silver Cataphracts and the various Traitor forces. Time was bought at a high cost by the Stone Men blocking the Tebata plains with a hastily made wall and their own bodies. At every turn Hektor was faced with adversity, but at last his attack brought him the very doorstep of his gene-father the Emperor.

>> No.38598516
File: 333 KB, 692x853, Chapter_War_by_agnidevi.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
38598516

>>38598503
>The Razing of Urartu
Bloodily pushing past the defenders of Albia, many Imperial citizen-militias were called to action in the face of the attacking forces. Though comprising entirely of normal humans, the people of Urartu gave battle to the Traitors with all the pride of being the birthplace of the galactic spanning Imperium of Man. The Black Augurs, at the forefront of the western assault towards the Palace, lose themselves in the combat spending extra time to destroy every last bastion and monument in the region. Though being crushed within a month, Urartu's defiance delayed the Augurs severely allowing for the Loyalists to gather up a force capable of blunting the sorcerer-led attack.

>The Descent of the Lucens City-Barge
The Lucens was a relic from the Dark Age of Technology, a void-ship capable of sustaining a population of over two billion souls indefinitely. It was found drifting along the periphery of the Sol system by Hektor Cincinnatus. He spoke with such a passion to the populace that, upon hearing of his rebellion, made due course to Terra. If such a mighty man was raising his banner in own revolt, they had to aid him. During their long journey each man and woman prepared to fight and use their home as an orbital station to assist in the siege operations. Utterly civilian, slow, and gargantuan upon arrival the Traitor officers had no idea what to make of it. Pallas Eugenesis then spins the idea to sink the vessel into Terra, using the stunning move add pressure on Terra. Hektor without hesitation follows through with her words, shutting down any proposal for advisement from his inner circle. The Lucens is brought down as Hektor's fleet pummels it into the soil of the world below. The polar ice-cap of Terra is turned into a crater, with more ash and debris adding to the growing swirling cloud over the planet.

Terra becomes unlivable to the outside at this point, with any humans requiring breathing assistance to survive on its surface.

>> No.38598563
File: 469 KB, 1024x1516, 1411750920534.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
38598563

>>38598516
>Hektor Calls Forth the Emperor
Just nascent thoughts here, but I'm thinking that Hektor calls out the Emperor to fight him man to man. Onyx, who was defeinding the Palace from outside it, is dragged forward. Hektor then executes his brother in sight of the place. The Emperor then in a furious rage rushes out there. Darius kills Daemon Princed Inferox, Alexandri clashes with another daemon prince and gets horribly wounded as a result, and the Emperor nearly dies in his fight with Hektor until a IA soldier who is a blank, able to dare their psykic storm kicked up in the duel, launches himself at Hektor and gives the Emperor his window to obliterate them both to kingdom come.

Right, thoughts? Each of these battles might have their own pages. I'm willing to go that indepth into each.

Also, Golgothos and the last of his Legion die defending the few civilians who are living in the ruins of Orioc(Antarctica). 100 Entombed with their Primarch against a horde of Eternal Zealots looking to sacrifice the civilians in a ritual to summon forth a horde of daemons. Only 5 Entombed survive, and lead on to do the shit we talked about before with survivor Entombed. Now, my suggest for getting the Enombted CHAPTER along is that the few pieces of gene-seed caught by these five survivors is then experimented upon endlessly by the AdMech, until they have enough gene-seed eight thousand years later to found the Entombed Chapter which reveals itself to the galaxy at large by destroying a Black Crusade and putting their Chapter House on Cadia, recruiting from the Cadians themselves for aspirants.

>> No.38598595

>>38598563
Also done.

>> No.38598652

>>38598563
Sounds good on the EZ side.

Everything looks thought out and if you need input on EZ or anything else let me know.

You may have fun with the new Formation of the EZ "Grey Riders" think Night Lord-ish Ravenwing, bikes decorated in pikes, with the heads of those who oppose them on them, that is before they turn traitor.

They are the legions answer to unruly settlements that rebel even after pacification.

As Traitors they become more blood thirsty hunters, even inducting Scout bikers into their ranks.

>> No.38598658
File: 38 KB, 500x364, 10384822_815130280491_7036491123820123721_n.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
38598658

>>38598563
>>38598516
>>38598503
>>38598484
>>38598461
>>38598442
>>38598416
>>38598395


I dig it.

>Appalachia
MAH HOMELAND FUCK YEAR SUCK IT TRAITORS

>> No.38598705

>>38598658

In keeping with the theme of '30k Terran locales being almost modern names', call the Appalachian Mtns the 'Pallacha Range' or something like that.

>> No.38598712

Woo! There's a lot here.
>>38598416
>breaking Hektor's back at Terra
I'm with it so far. I imagine Alexandri won't have the compunctions Dorn did about putting the palace back the way it was.

>>38598442
>Alexandri consigns the system to death
>Soviet propaganda
Jesus dude. That's absolutely vicious. Thumbs up.

>>38598461
I'm particularly interested in Jupiter and Saturn, as that's where my guys are supposed to be originally.

>>38598484
>Blowing up the Appalachians
That's pretty damn hardcore.
>>38598503
Terra is gonna have these scars a LONG time.

>>38598516
>using an ancient archeotech wonder like a thrown rock
God, I want to break Hektor's teeth in.

>>38598563
>Calling forth the Emperor
I feel this is much improved over the OU's version, so nice work.

All around, I like it quite a lot.

>> No.38598798
File: 52 KB, 488x639, tumblr_n4tisuxheb1qzptwgo1_500.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
38598798

>>38598395
>>38598416
>>38598442
>>38598461
>>38598484
>>38598503
>>38598516
>>38598563
Picture related. I really really like this.

I have three qualms of increasing significance, starting with the least

>I want to show people who say we're just a reskin, not worth producing our own material because we're going to be a 1:1 retelling of the Heresy with no alterations that they are WRONG, that we are creative enough to make something not only something just as entertaining, but better.
I'd rather we avoid this mindset. I touched on this earlier, but be realistic dude, we're writing internet fanfiction, it's not going to be better than a series of actual novels written by actual authors. Chill out on the "WE'RE WRITING 40K BUT BETTERER!" stuff. Let's not talk about this any further though, it detracts from the actual discussion.

My other criticisms are that A: You didn't say a whole lot about the Entombed fighting on Terra itself, and B: I'm strongly against the Entombed returning as a chapter. They either die, or they don't. I'm okay with a few surviving to have wacky adventures, but if the Entombed die, they have to stay dead, or it reduces the dramatic weight of them dying at all. They can have a narrative impact after their death in other ways, which I've been working on.

A: Cultural Legacy
B: Their IA support regiment (the as yet unnamed and unfleshed out ROBOT GUARDSMEN) live on and maintain strong cultural ties to Sepulchra and the Entombed, bearing their honor into the milennia
C: Sepulchra as a culturally significant rallying point during the Black Crusades (possibly supplanting Cadia entirely as the Sepulchran Gate? We'd have to move Sepulchra to the other side of the Eye but that's not an issue.)

>> No.38598818

>>38598712
Segmentum. That's multiple sectors of space just cleared off the board. The Traitor's primary means of gathering strength is recruitment, enslavement, and looting. Alexandri denies them of this and they bleed for it.

My new approach for how Alexandri is killed is he essentially is seen as a monster by all and is tried for what amounts to galactic war crimes afterwards. Don't know, will have to see what Lumey thinks. He controls both Darius and Gaspard.

>> No.38598881

>>38598818
>Russian Space Marines led by Primarch Stalin
>Scorched Earth tactics

The more I think on this, the more I like it.

>> No.38598947

>>38598798
In this version, the Entombed and Golgothos fight and die on Terra. Rather than be at Ostium, they are called directly from Sepulchra by Onyx and Alexandri to help defend Terra in the wake of rumors of not all is well in the state of Denma- I mean the Imperium.

This is in the full knowledge that any betrayal would have Sepulchra in the direct path of the Traitors, but they selflessly abandon their world to help bolster the defenders of Terra.

They become codified as saintly figures for their actions throughout the Heresy, culminating with their end defending the last bastion of humans alive on Terra in an enclosed habitation.

Now, the Entombed Chapter would only have tentative links to the Legion. All the Entombed died out, and the Chapter is just their geneseed. The Marines in the Chapter only have the propaganda to go off of for their origin Legion of the same name. They're pretty much a publicity stunt by the High Lords to go 'LOOK GUYS, WE LITERALLY REVIVED A GROUP OF GODDAMN SAINTS BY OURSELVES!'. They also turn out to be really good. But is this because of the High Lord backing, or them being that good?

A: Fine but Imperial Cult ties have been debated by nearly every party as a bad way to go with cultural legacy. I wanted to have a way they can essentially allow the Imperial Faith to arise by Alexandri using their message to destabilize the Imperial Truth. Not wholly responsible directly, but able to cause it in their message. The Emperor propaganda is to even add to that, as the two initiatives essentially are muddled together by the public consciousness.
B: This is fine too. No qualms.
C: Absolutely not. A rallying point? Why wouldn't it be? Supplanting Cadia? NOOOO. It can SUPPORT Cadia. Even that's a damn fine duty to have as a world.

>> No.38598956
File: 59 KB, 800x404, 101530_md.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
38598956

>>38598416
>Golgothos radical beliefs are encouraged by Alexandri as to give faith to the people in a time of total peril.
I particularly really like this. It's a wonderful solution to my Imperial Cult predicament. I'd be interested to hear what other people might think of it.

I also love the strong theme of Total War on Terra. Very believable, very dramatic.

>Darius is told to train his psykers for war, alongside the Stone Men and the Silver Cataphracts, but they will not use their powers in warfare just yet.
A good time for the Entombed's psyker-dreads and NOT!Damane to come in.

I love the soviet propaganda. THE EMPEROR PROTECTS is a strong slogan in canon, might want to use it here too.

>The universities of multiple worlds are shut down, learning is stopped in its tracks. Children are taught how to build munitions and weaponry rather than history or linguistics. Teens find themselves working their youthful bodies hard in order to train themselves into efficient combatants.
This feels phrased weird given the timeframe of a ~10 year long war

>The preface of this needs to be decided about because I plan on tying the void-actions with the previous battles at Venus, Jupiter, and Saturn. Which will need more talks held to decide.
Tell me more things. The Entombed have a STRONG relationship with Mars.

>Defense of Appachinia Mountains
>Firestorm of the Marianas Hive
>Charge At he Imperial Gates
>The Razing of Urartu
>The Descent of the Lucens City-Barge
Great stuff. Having specific sub-theaters on Terra is great.

>Emperor vs Hektor
This needs work

>100 Entombed with their Primarch against a horde of Eternal Zealots looking to sacrifice the civilians in a ritual to summon forth a horde of daemons. Only 5 Entombed survive, and lead on to do the shit we talked about before with survivor Entombed.
The key thing about the Entombed vs Life Bringers rivalry is that the symbolism is so deliciously ironic. Good guys with death symbolism vs Bad guys with life symbolism.

>> No.38598995

>>38598956
Someone needs to mop up the blaspheming zealots.

>> No.38599024

>>38598461
>>38598484
>>38598503
>>38598516
>>38598563
>>38598652
>>38598658
>>38598712
>>38598956
HOLY FUCK, I FORGOT ONE

>The Last Stand of Britonnica
The mountanous plataeu beholden of the former techno-barbarian state of Britonnica is in turmoil the moment the Traitors make first landfall. Ourethal Ehrdent, who has lived in the wastes of Terra for some time after being ostracized by society for questioning the Imperium's rule returns to defend his people from total destruction. Britonnica rallies behind the former general who has the full backing of his prominent family. Thanks to a brave collection of Sand Keepers and Entombed aiding in the defense, cut off from all aid the lone state lasts out for two hundred days of unending battle that sees two Traitors dead for every one Loyalist lost. The tenacity of the defenders here shakes the connviction of the besiegers. Briton's defiance is used as a rallying cry by Alexandri's propagandists and becomes the site of a memorial after the siege.

>> No.38599049

>>38598956
Trying not to make all my criticism/comments relate to the Entombed but it's hard.

>In this version, the Entombed and Golgothos fight and die on Terra. Rather than be at Ostium, they are called directly from Sepulchra by Onyx and Alexandri to help defend Terra in the wake of rumors of not all is well in the state of Denma- I mean the Imperium.
This is good. Ostium was cool but replacing the cool with the cooler is always fine by me.

I DO however have a problem with losing Entombed vs Life Bringers and losing Obitus raising the dead in the Catacombs. Obitus could be a thing during the scouring, perhaps.

>A: Fine but Imperial Cult ties have been debated by nearly every party as a bad way to go with cultural legacy. I wanted to have a way they can essentially allow the Imperial Faith to arise by Alexandri using their message to destabilize the Imperial Truth. Not wholly responsible directly, but able to cause it in their message. The Emperor propaganda is to even add to that, as the two initiatives essentially are muddled together by the public consciousness.
Yeah. I've always thought it fit the Entombed's character for them to not actually have a DIRECT part in the Imperial Cult, but just have incidental influence from people seeing them do what they do.
>C: Absolutely not. A rallying point? Why wouldn't it be? Supplanting Cadia? NOOOO. It can SUPPORT Cadia. Even that's a damn fine duty to have as a world.
I'd be interested to see why you think this. Cadia isn't actually all that interesting in and of itself. It's just...a world. A world where the best guardsmen are formed, but nothing about the world itself is remarkable. So why can't Cadia be a shrine-world supported by scores of recruitment worlds, and have a different name?

>> No.38599117

>>38599049
We could have the battle in Sepulchra, where 100 or 1,000 Entombed remain on their homeworld with their robo-guardsmen with Obitus being the chief commander. Life Bringers come in, poison their gene-seed, and move on with the Robo-guardsmen surviving their chemical storm by being robits.

>> No.38599118

If we're kicking Crusaders to the curb, this leaves the space open for a legion to be Aubreys subject of revenge.

It seems that Aubreys only suitable rival is Alexandri.

The Regent vs The Surgeon General.

>> No.38599163

>>38599118
Well, I don't know what to say to this. Other than tunnel snakes rule.

>> No.38599169

>>38599117
ehhh, I'll put some thought into it.

One thing I want to say is that it feels very much like you need one or two more loyalists on Terra. Cataphracts, Stone Men, Entombed, and Sand Keepers is such a motley crew. We need one more legion, I think, that feels more...vanilla. I don't think in this model the Cataphracts are the Praetorians, and if they are, I'm not sure they should be. A fifth, more vanilla feeling legion, like the Crusaders would make it feel more well-rounded to me.

>> No.38599176

>>38599169
Crusaders don't exist in this version brosephius.

>> No.38599215

>>38599024
I like it. You've had some good ideas for the siege so far.

>>38599118
>>38599163
Aww, I was gonna say it.

>>38599049
>no more Ostium
Damn, I was proud of that. But Alex's first post still mentions it, so I guess it will survive in some re-worked form.

>> No.38599227

>>38599215
It'll survive in a 'No Entombed there' form.

>> No.38599257
File: 96 KB, 693x1000, 474058_md-Conversion, Crimson Templars, Flyer, Red, Space, Space Marines, Vehicle.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
38599257

>>38599176
Hence the spoiler, but do you get my point? All four of those legions use tactics that are very... atypical. They're also VASTLY outnumbered. 4 Legions, 2 of which are the smallest, against like 10? I think one more legion should be there, a Praetorian legion that fights in a more conventional style.

I've lost track of who's left after these cuts which I guess are inevitable. The Crusaders are so goddamn cool and have so much potential.

>> No.38599330

>>38599257
I still like the idea of Alexandri fucking his gene-seed over to boost his numbers, so we might see a return of the 200,000 large Cataphracts Legion again. The Silver Cataphracts are Soviet Deep Battle, tanks supported by airforce, artillery, and infantry. The core is tanks, while the Wehrmacht had more tanks supporting infantry with infantry support tanks and airforce supporting both.

This is the list of the Legions IN, memorize it looks like most have agreed to it.

Legion I: Heralds of Hektor (Traitor)
Legion II: War Scribes (Loyalist)
Legion III: Sons of Fire (Traitor)
Legion IV: Steel Marshalls (Loyalist)
Legion V: Void Angels (Loyalist)
Legion VI: The Entombed (Loyalist)
Legion VII: Eyes of the Emperor (Loyalist)
Legion VIII: Children of [Redacted] (┬┐Traitor?)
Legion IX: Lions Rampant (Traitor)
Legion X: Eternal Zealots (Traitor)
Legion XI: Thunder Kings (Loyalist/Traitor)
Legion XII: Life Bringers (Traitor)
Legion XIII: Iron Rangers (Traitor)
Legion XIV: Black Augurs (Traitor)
Legion XV: Silver Cataphracts (Loyalist)
Legion XVI: Crimson Teeth (Traitor)
Legion XVII: Scale Bearers (Loyalist)
Legion XVIII: Sand Keepers (Loyalist)
Legion XIX: Stone Men (Loyalist)
Legion XX: Horns of Ruin (Traitor)

Lumey is pushing for Horns removal and Scale Bearers being torn from this cloth, but Anons have raised concerns over that. It's in discussions and looks like both will get work done them.

>> No.38599358
File: 4.26 MB, 5184x3456, 5449491818_a17248fdf9_o.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
38599358

>>38599330

There's only three loyalists that fight in what I would call a conventional SPESS MUHREEN style. The Steel Marshalls, the Void Angels, and the Thunder Kings.

Who the fuck is our Praetorian? Cataphracts?

I'm now more strongly in the pro-Crusaders camp. Their core idea is very good, it has some overlap with other legions, and it's underdeveloped, but it can be saved! I'd rather (but regretfully) lose the Scale Bearers than the Crusaders.

>> No.38599383

>>38599358
Then we're stuck in limbo, indefinitely.

>> No.38599396

>>38599383
I could maybe possibly work on them. Spring break starts next week so I've got plenty of free time.

>> No.38599412

>>38599358
Yeah, but this gives the Catas the break they deserve as of late.

Their tactics have been shifted so often.

Plus this means that Zealots get to do the Crusader/Templar theme more.

>> No.38599413

>>38599396
Also it looks like with your ideas in this proposal we're getting very close to finalizing the Entombed.

>> No.38599419

Anon passing through, and a question, who are the nice-guy Primarchs here? Everyone seems pretty assholeish, either using humans as meat shields or just ignoring their existence.

>> No.38599434

>>38599419
Golgothos thinks humans are gods. That's...pretty nice.

>> No.38599450

>>38599396
So now they have a creator who might not listen to the half the community when he gets an idea he doesn't want to budge on when we're stuck having to work to his whims?

>>38599419
Gaspard Lumey, he doesn't even take over his world, he just helps them rise up(They started the rebellion on their own initiative) to form a working democracy.

Onyx of Neolithus. A simple mind with a heart of gold and a spirit of diamond.

Darius Cyaraxes, his presence fucking eases the pain and suffering of others.

Tollund Oztatl, even his post-heresy persona is the nicest of all Traitor Primarchs.

>> No.38599482

>>38599419
>>38599450
Aubrey pre-heresy wanted an equal Imperium devoid of class-based or racial prejudice.

He just turned into a cunt is all.

>> No.38599488

>>38599450
>So now they have a creator who might not listen to the half the community when he gets an idea he doesn't want to budge on when we're stuck having to work to his whims?
I don't know where you guys got this idea. I never go forward with ideas everyone says no to. I keep trying at them, sure, but I don't canonize them.

>> No.38599528

>>38599488
The arguments over the Imperial Faith are fresh in my mind and giving you the control of a centralized core of the entire project as anon of the Crusaders with control of the Praetorian status would mean every single major conflict of the War in Sol and the Battle of Terra your new Legion plays a role in. And we know you. You can hold onto your ideas with a iron grip, not give them up until despite hours of debate. Now you will be at the fulcrum of which the project must be completed on?

>> No.38599677
File: 3.74 MB, 5184x3456, 5684934072_bdb273d07d_o.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
38599677

>>38599528
Arguments are just that: Arguments. One guy with one opinion and another guy with another opinion forwarding them with effort. If those arguments are fresh in your mind you'll remember that I gave in to reason and didn't put Imperial Faith stuff on my page. That after all the arguing I listened.

Nobody said anything about control. I didn't make the Crusaders, I have no personal sense of authority over them, and wouldn't even if I was writing for them. Whenever anybody offers to work on anything it's always a matter of TOTAL CONTROL for some reason. Why can't we just float ideas? If this is a COMMUNITY project why do I rarely see any COMMUNITY contribution? Why do I so rarely see Alexandri writing for The Entombed (you'll note I was super excited to see that you had) or Lumey writing for the Steel Marshalls?

This has been a problem I've been noticing for a while. Our structure is self-contradictory. The onus of producing content is on individuals, who have to work out of whole cloth. But the authority to canonize things is socialized. This is contradictory, and leads to chokepoints of things dying in committee. Either everything needs to be individually produced and canonized, with community effort on maintaining interconnectedness (which I've always been in favor of although nobody else is, and I wholly understand their reasons) or the responsibility of creating content should to be decentralized, with anons working on everything, collectively. No more "I am in charge of X legion," but instead "hey guys I wrote a thing for X legion, what do you think?"

>> No.38599721

http://pastebin.com/jg6QBNeR

Merrill and I are reworking the Scale Bearers. There's a lot on that page needing overhaul.

This is some of my opening edits on the Legion's history. I edited the 'Sacred Band' portion of the wiki, but am waiting on positive feedback to post the rest.

Going to bed here shortly, so Merrill can check it when he shows up tomorrow. Feedback more than welcome, since I've never done anything this ambitious before.

>> No.38599864

>>38599677
But I WOULD have that authority if the Cataphracts were the Emperor's Praetorian. I would have the ability to work them and the way to shape them since I know them better than any other. I have a clear, decisive vision for the whole Heresy in my mind and how to orchestrate it in a way that makes all parties happy. But my main domain would be the War in Sol, and the Siege for Terra and the many battles on its surface. I can write those with impunity, essentially, as they'd be the crux of my Legion's history. What would do with the Crusaders? You're openly hostile to Lumey and I know for a fact others don't even want to talk to you anymore over the comments in these threads. I'm not going to do that, despite how angry I am.

What happens if I write something for the Crusaders or Entombed you don't like, but others do, and they say for you to deal with it despite you really disliking the content there and how it changes the rest of the content you wrote around it? That is the issue with people sharing something out when they give equal contribution to something.

The Heralds and Hektor are essentially a community contribution. Uriel's notes on both have been used by Lumey, and pretty soon I'm going to propose to Lumey my own suggestions same as I gave to you a while back. We tried to say 'right anyone with a idea for the Heralds or Hektor, give them'. I said that, and it was just ME who came up with anything.
In answers to people being in charge of X Legion, Uriel. He always wanted content tied to certain contributors.

>> No.38599902

>>38599677
>>38599864
HOLD UP

You do know the Cataphracts are taking in nearly completely the Crusader's doctrine right?

>> No.38600010
File: 110 KB, 379x329, 1408801208621.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
38600010

>>38599902
Unless they're taking in the totally kickass paintscheme that leaves me mildly unsatisfied.

>I know for a fact others don't even want to talk to you anymore over the comments in these threads
This makes me sad

> I have a clear, decisive vision for the whole Heresy in my mind and how to orchestrate it in a way that makes all parties happy.
This makes me semi-nervous but also excited.

>What happens if I write something for the Crusaders or Entombed you don't like, but others do, and they say for you to deal with it despite you really disliking the content there and how it changes the rest of the content you wrote around it? That is the issue with people sharing something out when they give equal contribution to something.
If it was the Crusaders I wouldn't really give a shit. Like I said, me writing for them is literally just me writing for them, it's not control in any sense. It's me writing a thing and saying "hey guys I wrote a thing." And it was JUST in the sense of helping them become less underdeveloped, not thorough responsibility. If it was the Entombed I'd argue against it. I do think anons who actually personally created legions have some semblance of authority over those legions.

>> No.38600184

>>38600010
>Unless they're taking in the totally kickass paintscheme that leaves me mildly unsatisfied.
I was thinking of having a specialist rank in the Cataphracts that amounts to Proto-Chaplain, but more extreme but also charismatic than a Chaplain with the Crusader's paintscheme. Also semi-knightly in the tradition of Rosskar's power armor clad Technocratic Aristocracy. Oprichniki + Waffen SS Officers anyone?

>This makes me sad
When you take an unpopular stance that is very much in conflict with the modus operandi of the other contributors in the thread...on the same day they announcted the production of a positive movie based on the life of Bowe Berghdahl you will get this response. I'm sure though all can be forgiven in the future.

>This makes me semi-nervous but also excited.
Why? Voice your concerns.

> It's me writing a thing and saying "hey guys I wrote a thing."
What if what I wrote invalidated that, or lessened it. What if you get inspired with the Crusaders and invested, and this happens? What if Lumey one day decides to rewrite all the Crusaders because he got an idea and people like his version more than yours?

>> No.38600244

Please don't use the Crusader's colour scheme for a thing in some other Legion. They'll need it as a codex-divergent uber-Chapter.

>> No.38600247

>>38600184
>Bowe Berghdahl
I don't know who that is

>Why? Voice your concerns.
The phrasing makes it sound like the Alexandri show starring Alexandri written by Alexandri directed by Alexandri produced by Alexandri with executive producers the-rest-of-us. "Let me write the entire heresy please, everyone else just watch." It makes me excited because despite how scary the above is, what you posted in the thread is pretty damn good. I just get scared when it seems like some anon is trying to make himself the anon in charge, is all.

>What if what I wrote invalidated that, or lessened it.
Then whatever, man. What you wrote above invalidated and lessened tons of shit I wrote for the Entombed but I loved most of it.
>What if Lumey one day decides to rewrite all the Crusaders because he got an idea and people like his version more than yours?
Then we'll go with that because people like it better? Do you see me complaining that people aren't using the stuff I wrote for the Heralds of Hektor?

>> No.38600279

>>38600244
Honestly, the red and black Crusaders theme is so goddamn fucking cool, I can't get over it. If the Cataphracts are taking in the Crusaders' MO and becoming the Praetorians (which I can totally get behind, by the way) I'd actually suggest dropping "silver" and keeping the Crusaders' color scheme instead of the original Cataphracts one.

That's how fucking cool I think that shit is.

>> No.38600314

>>38600247
>I don't know who that is
American soldier who left a note saying he was going to join the Taliban. Taliban held him captive and American negotiated the release of five Taliban members to get him back. He has a following of zealous supporters.

>The phrasing makes it sound like the Alexandri show starring Alexandri written by Alexandri directed by Alexandri produced by Alexandri with executive producers the-rest-of-us.

Read the Siege of Terra. The Cataphracts come up a grand total of twice, and Alexandri is at the forefront of it in the beginning. Tons of events are happening around him and outside his control still.

BUT, the biggest, heaviest chunk that NEEDS to be written would be handled by me and I know precisely how to do it.

>>38600244
Can you tell me what you think of my write up in the above?

>>38600279
The Crusading Cataphracts?

Eh, I'll think about it at the very least. Glorious honorable knight themes clash HARD with the Cataphracts slavic fatalism tho.

>> No.38600358

>>38600314
>Read the Siege of Terra. The Cataphracts come up a grand total of twice, and Alexandri is at the forefront of it in the beginning. Tons of events are happening around him and outside his control still.
When I said Alexandri I meant you, the author, not the character and his legion.

>Eh, I'll think about it at the very least. Glorious honorable knight themes clash HARD with the Cataphracts slavic fatalism tho.
Just the red with black arms/shoulders paint scheme. Nazi fascism themes can fit in well to some degree with the soviet propaganda you've been working with already, but that's not as big a deal with me either. The Crusading thing can be picked up by the Marshalls and the Zealots.

Honestly, I just think it's a really fantastic paint scheme.

>> No.38600365
File: 55 KB, 400x500, newcrusaders.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
38600365

>>38600279
This thing?

>>38600314
I don't mind the Terran stuff but I am not particularly keen on the set-up. Where is Malcador in all of this? Why would he turn a blind eye to Alexandri consciously undermining the Imperial Truth?

>> No.38600383

>>38600358
me

>> No.38600390
File: 67 KB, 634x900, 1410836120550.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
38600390

>>38600365
Funny, I remember it being the other way around. But yeah, that shit is dope. Look at that shit and tell me it isn't dope.

>> No.38600400

>>38600365
Malcador is setting up the avenues to undermine Alexandri's power later actually. He doesn't know he's undermining the Imperial Truth to the extent he actually is, and is still going to use that as ammunition against him the future. Or advising Darius and Onyx to do so when reinforcements arrive. He's also been humbled by saving Hektor in this version too, so while he works with Onyx and Alexandri on the defense he's at his limit doing that, setting up the Grey Knights(He might even need Darius to assist) and bringing the Inquisition to bear.

He does everything he does in the OU, but is even more taxed because of his previous wounding. Which I think makes Malcador even more of a badass who stretches that boundary of awesome and mary sue so well it simply becomes something else: Brutal.

I'm rambling because I'm tired as fuck but I haven't forgotten the Sigilite. I just wanted to focus on a general outline that'd get the broad strokes out of the way.

>> No.38600434

>>38600400
I find this believable. I'm not so sure about him not *knowing* about it, there's very little Malcador doesn't know about, but biding his time and playing the long game is believable, since Alexandri at the peak of his authority in this narrative is actually probably capable of overpowering and seizing Malcador if he openly opposed him. Malcador waits until Hektor is dealt with and Alexandri isn't quite so powerful.

>> No.38600459

>>38600390
I like it a lot, though if you really want to shop it to a Legion the Steel Marshals look sillier than the Silver Cataphracts.

>>38600400
>Malcador... does everything he does in the OU
That means that he's the acting head of state and that Alexandri is operating under Malcador's authority. I don't get that impression from what you've written. Not even close.

>> No.38600478

>>38600459
>That means that he's the acting head of state and that Alexandri is operating under Malcador's authority.
Shit I totally forgot that.

What would you suggest as a compromise of ideas, because everyone really likes the Alexandri meddling and it sets a pretty nice avenue for him to tried for war crimes. I'd drop it if people didn't like it.

So, yes, let's tone it down and give Malcy the clout he deserves. Any suggestions?

I need to sleep. My regular Tuesday game is tomorrow. Or today, depending on you see it.

>> No.38600496

>>38600459
>I like it a lot, though if you really want to shop it to a Legion the Steel Marshals look sillier than the Silver Cataphracts.
I can totally get behind this.

>> No.38600498

>>38600478
And now I'm ceasing to be coherent. Great.

By the way, Lumey, I'd like your precise thoughts on each thing. I wrote a lot about Hektor and the various other things. I especially want to know what you think of the Calling Forth of the Emperor piece since this is a major departure from any plan previously.

>> No.38600501

>>38600496
Me too.

>> No.38600515

>>38600478
>Any suggestions?
Sleep on it. The last thread was a monster and a lot got brought up.

Most likely we just draw a line between civilian and military affairs and let Alexandri carry out war crimes but not thought crimes.

>> No.38600526

>>38600515
>Most likely we just draw a line between civilian and military affairs and let Alexandri carry out war crimes but not thought crimes.

Shame. Thought crimes are usually the most damaging, and thus, the most damning.

>> No.38600534

>>38600526
Also going to bed now.

>> No.38600554

>>38600515
>but not thought crimes.
I am pro thought crimes.

>> No.38600593

>>38600554
Thinking of which, an anon asked about the source of the Imperial Cult in terms of its underground literature. I don't see Golgothos (the Primarch) as the sort to write, but Obitus is a scholarly fellow. Have you considered the notion of a "Gospel of Obitus"?

>> No.38600687

>>38594615
Why the hell are we proposing cuts to Legions with a lot of established fluff and background integration like the Masts and SBs?

I'm fine with B.
Those cuts are to Legions that we've tried to make good, but just didn't work out.
MAYBE keep Horns if Vetro does somethin' good.

>> No.38600733

>>38600687
>The Mastodontii
Partly because I'm not sure how much of the text on their page is original content. Although there's been cool stuff around them, their writer stole a lot of cool writing from Forge World and Games Workshop publications, changed the names, and presented it as his own.

>Scale Bearers
Their fluff was one-note and their tie-in was just to the IRs. When Merrill said that he really needed them and went to their pages he was horrified.

>> No.38600758
File: 499 KB, 500x375, 1406871157940.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
38600758

>>38600593
>Have you considered the notion of a "Gospel of Obitus"?
I am now

>> No.38600828

>>38600733
Fair enough.
Hopefully this will be the last of the cuts and whatnot, hm?

I just think both are very unique and nifty concepts, so I hope they can survive in a fashion that keeps that aspect.

>Scale Bearers
Their page isn't THAT bad, is it?
>Checks
Ah. It appears to have a fondness for honey.

>> No.38601046

Hey guys is a Blank Space Marine possible/doable in this AU?
Im not talking Pariah levels, just lower level Blank stuff.

>> No.38601065
File: 43 KB, 400x500, eyes-reskin.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
38601065

Y'know, while this thread still has some life in it, let's re-open the paint question.

Fucking Eyes of the Emperor paint scheme, man. Their original just tries too hard to be fancy. Pic related is an alternative I'm not entirely happy with, based on the idea of trying to put the Eyes in saffron robes (YOU KNOW WHY) but I'm not sure that the Meaningful Blue and Black combination works.

>> No.38601153

>>38601046
The basic idea would be that the Space Marine was recruited from Terra during the Unification Wars, so the knowledge of Blanks at that point is minimal, at best.
No Inquisition to send him to, no Culexus to recruit him, so he'd just be inducted like anyone else.

>> No.38601179
File: 53 KB, 400x500, eyes-reskin2.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
38601179

>>38601065
Alternatively, saffron armour and an attempt not to look like the Custodes.

>>38601153
I don't hear any alarm bells. What do you want to do with this guy?

>> No.38601205
File: 46 KB, 400x500, eyes-reskin3.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
38601205

>>38601179
Saffron and green armour in black robes, another Meaningful Colour Scheme.

>> No.38601270
File: 47 KB, 400x500, eyes-reskin4.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
38601270

>>38601205
Variation on the theme.

>> No.38601300

>>38601179
He would be essentially a gigantic impossibility; a one in billion chance to be a Blank, a 1:?? chance of being chosen to become an Astartes, and a 1:????? chance of surviving the process. These statistical impossibilities would continue throughout his career; any time something is unlikely to happen, it does. Murphy's Law, but for both good and bad.

For example, he might win against impossible odds, but also lose an entire Barge under his command in the Warp. He might make that 3 mile shot with a lascannon, but his entire store of Executioners explodes on one battlefield.

Thoughts?

>> No.38601316

>>38601300
Sounds like a member of the Sand Keepers.

>> No.38601353

>>38601316
>Large group of Psykers
>Blank
Hm.
Im sure that'd go over awesome

>> No.38601374

>>38601353
The summary information is out of date. They're the Legion of Fate with a special destiny to fight Chaos.

>> No.38601392

>>38601374
Hm.
Fancy that.
I'd be fine with that, then.
Though to be fair, it's not what I had in mind when I started.
I'd originally planned for Sebastion to be a Blank.

>> No.38601764

>>38601374
In other news, I'm currently working on painting a member from each Legion.
Entombed is currently on the table; request for next one?

>> No.38602239

>SM at Terra
there's like 5,000 left by then
I'm not against it, but it rails pretty hard against my current fluff
Is kranios still canon?

>> No.38602251

>>38601764

You're actually not alone in that, I've painted up a Void Angel and a Crusader already.

>> No.38602362

>>38602239
okay, it looks like he still is.
so, here's a proposal:
Onyx limps back from Isstvan, going to defend his home sector from Kranios. Terra calls for his aid, and he regretfully leaves his homeworld to fortify terra. Kranios takes advantage of this and OBLITERATES Neolithus. the sector practically explodes. Stars supernova, planets crumble, trillions if not quadrillions of people die. Kranios turns into the guy from hatred and goes on a genocidal crusade to kill as many people as possible within a limited time span. His power bloats beyond comprehension, and the only reason Hektor still commands him is the backing of the gods. superdaemon Kranios and Onyx battle above terra, as Kranios leads hektor's fleet with the warp-wunderwaffen and a wave of daemons following behind him like flies and vultures following a rabid tiger.

>> No.38602589

>>38599330
>I still like the idea of Alexandri fucking his gene-seed over to boost numbers
Me too.

I read the outline of Terra you have, seems pretty legit - a great start for us to build on

>>38599330
>Children
>VIII
they're the thirteenth, like the VA are the 5th.
Its an easy swap, but before anything gets put down pat, i'd like to get that right.

---

>>38599864
>>38599677
>Total Control

This is not going to help anyone.
The way things are now is shaky, but everyone has an equal say in what happens, especially to the main portion of the project they are on - their legion if you will.
If you write for more than one legion, thats fine, but others should be able to contribute to it too without anyone getting pissy over "control"
This would only apply on abandoned legions anyway, so thats fair.

Alex if you want to propose your ideas for Terra thats fine and I'd like to see them, but if you think you have total control over the course of the *whole heresy*, thats not on.

>But my main domain would be the War in Sol, and the Siege for Terra and the many battles on its surface. I can write those with impunity, essentially, as they'd be the crux of my Legion's history.
You're a contributor and there is no hierarchy

You don't like/trust Golgy - thats your choice.
But locking him out the project because you don't see eye to eye is childish and petty.
We're better than that. Or should be.
If we start at it now the project will fall apart - drawing up battle lines means everyone loses.

>In answers to people being in charge of X Legion, Uriel.
What?
Its convenient that the creator or main anon behind a legion writes for their own portion of the project.
If people want to share a legion thats fine by me. If people want to write a bit for another legion thats fine, but they don't hold a claim on that new legion is all.
Clear?

You saying you have a vision that will make everyone happy then misquoting me, doesn't inspire confidence

>> No.38602648
File: 40 KB, 201x281, MarshalTest2.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
38602648

>>38600501
>>38600496
>marshals colour scheme
what about pic related?

I did it ages ago before it changed, or after... i'm not sure what the one on the wiki is meant to be

If not I'd turn that into a successor chapter of the marshals eventually.

>>38600687
agreed

>>38601065
maybe they have bright colours, but in a less uncordinated "Iron Man" way than currently..

Orange or turqoi-forget the last one actually. But bright Orange or something?

Just a thought.

I like the saffron robe though, and that scheme is pretty decent.

>>38601179
>>38601205
>yellow
I like this
I always liked teh ImpFists yellow and black, and I believe we have no yellow.

So my vote is with this one:>>38601179
maybe command ranks have the robes in black, as a visual sign of office or something?

>> No.38602762

>>38594615
Make that four votes to B.

>>38598395
>>38598416
>>38598442
>>38598461
>>38598484
>>38598503
>>38598516
>>38598563
>>38599024
In regards to the IA blank, in my opinion it will help the story later if we downplay this. Give the implication that the guardsman WAS a blank, but do not come right out and say it. That way we preserve the Ollanius Pius feel but give a plausible reason for his successful sacrifice.

Cool and badass, while leaving room for further development. Well done.


>>38602648
LESS grey, not more.

>> No.38602940

>>38600828
I have no idea what that means, but it is kinda sad. Heck, when was the last update before the Fire Breathers were added to it?

>> No.38602992

>>38598798
But... But Golgy...

http://1d4chan.org/wiki/C.S._Goto

>>38599721
Checking it out.

>>38600828
Yes. Yes it is.

>>38602940
There were a lot of minor grammatical and former updates over the months, but the last time anyone put any real effort in was October.

>> No.38603188

>>38599721

Alright, I proofread the work you did and it seems good. There's some grammatical work that should be done to make it easier to read, but that's about it. And trust me, I am guilty of that as well. Mind if I clean it up a bit for you? The stuff that needs to be moved, I'll take care of. Need to get some work done in the house today, but I'll take care of hopefully at least the early history today. Maybe even discovery of the Primarch

>> No.38603305

>>38603188
Sure, not a problem.

>> No.38603344

I'd like to clear up why I want to keep the Scale Bearers in here, because there's a few reasons.

>I like the Scale Bearers
I really do. They've very much got the old, Rogue Trader sense of fun in there. It's something bright and appealing to my inner child in a universe full of dour pragmatists, psychotic assholes, and snakes. Fun fact, I was actually studying to be a paleontologist up till about high school. And by studying I mean reading up on new theories and scientific journals. I was purchasing everything written by Bob Baker, Jack Horner, the works. My bookshelves were a collection of a couple of books from Heinlein, some SW novels, LOTR, and SHELVES of scientific literature about dinos. Now I don't remember much of that stuff anymore, but I did use to impress my son by knowing all the dinos at the museum.

>I like Tiran and his work
I think he got the heart and soul of this project down pat. He was in it for fun, pure and simple. He understood suspension of disbelief, and kept the chapter in check during their creation, so they wouldn't be too out there, while taking off and just doing ridiculous shit with his page.

>People like them
Just look at ALL the successor chapters. Most of them are pretty much skeletons, but someone took the time to fill the page up with them.

>Integral to IR
Not really integral. I do enjoy the IR. I think they're fun. But the problem is that they're a support Legion. They're meant to support other Legions. They're specialists in taking out things that bog the normal tactics and maneuvers down, as well as taking out leadership. This gives them something to do that's theirs. Yeah, they do a bunch of other stuff in the Heresy, but that stuff is basically "helping other Legions with their job." This is the IR doing IR shit.

>> No.38603352
File: 195 KB, 342x750, tumblr_inline_ne8ph15HdV1qhjcms.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
38603352

>>38594558
Inb4 Dragon Fangs

>>38594605
>mfw Imperials

>>38594628
Yeah, I know 40k is built entirely on rule of cool and all attempts to make things seem pragmatic are half-assed rationalizations, but let's not have animals be able to take tank blasts unless they're tyranids (which are more like machines made out of organic materials and swarm anyway).

>>38599419
The Yaotls are the nicest. They just don't know how to socialize beyond raping eachother and bein' sphess pirates.

>>38600400
REMOVE ROSSKAR REMOVE ROSSKAR YOU ARE THE WORST PRIMARCH YOU ARE THE HERETIC SMELL.

>>38600758
Is good plan!

>> No.38603389

>>38603305
Alright, I'm cutting/pasting things onto my talk page, in case you're wondering where they went.

>> No.38603879

http://1d4chan.org/wiki/Scale_Bearers

Alright, The page is now fitting the new format. The successor chapters need a bit filling out, would anyone care to help in that endeavor? Anyone have the info or pastebin for the Fire Breathers? They could use some info.

>> No.38603943

>>38603879
Fire Breathers have their own page. Anon linked to it instead of posting it on the main page.

>> No.38604017

>>38603879
Never mind. I see what you mean. Putting together a paragraph now

>> No.38604041

>>38603943
Okay, should probably be linked there, then. Not sure whether we should keep the infobox or not, if they've got their own page. But there should at least be a small description there.
I'm taking care of chores around the house atm, and will get back later to fix some more of the page and put some more info up there. I'm pretty sure that the history of Solnhofen needs to be proofread and edited, I just removed the dividers from the section.

>> No.38604145

>>38603344
>Just look at ALL the successor chapters. Most of them are pretty much skeletons, but someone took the time to fill the page up with them.

The successors of all Legions, barring a few like the Fire Breathers, Gore Suns, and Abyssal Reavers, are ideas put forth much earlier in the project but got shot down. We didn't want to utterly dismiss them, so they got a couple paragraphs here and there.

>> No.38604205

>>38604145
Actually, these are all more or less Successor Chapters built around the SB, not cannibalized ideas that got rejected.

>> No.38604281

>>38604205
Huh, that's strange. Did Tiran write those up?

>> No.38604416

>>38604281
No idea.

>> No.38604971

>>38602648
What's wrong with my paint scheme?

>> No.38605540

>>38602239
>>38602362
This is a different version in which the Stone Men aren't decimated in any battle and in their entirety defend Terra with Onyx at the helm. It also leaves Kranios to do whatever the fuck Vetro wants.

>> No.38606751

>>38605540
so...
what happens after that?

>> No.38606786
File: 102 KB, 400x500, Sandkeepers.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
38606786

>>38602648
I can't do black robes as a sign of office - the source material would make them more like the Legion's "war paint". I could go with the green robes for much of their history and put them in black for the Heresy, though.

However, we do have the Sand Keepers in gold and red (current scheme pictured), although they really need to look less like Custodes as well.

>>38603344
>Just look at ALL the successor chapters. Most of them are pretty much skeletons, but someone took the time to fill the page up with them.
As I understand it, the SB Successors were mainly written by Tiran-anon.

>>38604971
The grey isn't wonderful and the kneepads look silly.

>> No.38607038

>>38606786
Oh. Did not know that.

In reference to the gold coloration, maybe we could do a desert yellow with gold and red trim?

Just a suggestion.

Related note, how's the Legion History look so far?

http://1d4chan.org/wiki/Scale_Bearers#Legion_History

>> No.38607269

>>38607038
>desert yellow with gold and red trim?
Pretty much what I'm thinking, although I suspect that the SKs will still be cut along with the Horns.

>SB history
Tried reading it, but I'm not awake enough right now. First paragraph looks good and the only thing I'd been concerned about in the drafting (Hektor's "desperation") didn't make it to the wiki copy. It's on the list of things to read and review.

>> No.38607720

>>38606751
Was going to leave it up to you. But someone needs to replace the now removed Scions. And the Stone Men are perfect for it.

>> No.38608142

>>38599330
Wait, why eliminate Horns and Scale Bearers? They are like, 2 of the most interesting ones.

Why is it that everyone seems to continuously kill all of the Legions I like. I mean, I liked the Bulwark, Knights of Justice, Horns of Ruin and the Scale Bearers... Now they are gone... Also, are we really down to 20 now? Seriously? We started with like, 26.

>> No.38608255

>>38608142
Scale Bearers are still around.

>> No.38608312

>>38608142
Alex is attempting to use me as an ogre to frighten people into accepting his proposals. Note what I say when speaking for myself at >>38594395
>If the Scale Bearers are a dead letter, we cut them. If Merrill wants to rebuild them because they're critical to Iron Rangers fluff, we help him.
Merrill and AtTheEarthsCore (ATEC? Can we call you ATEC?) have taken on rebuilding the SBs and I'm fine with that.

The Horns are a stub. They could be just about anything. For this reason, Alex wants to keep them and hand them over to Vetrovnak-anon, per >>38605540
>It also leaves Kranios to do whatever the fuck Vetro wants.
However, this goes against Onyx's stated reasons for wanting to keep the Horns around, so that they could be the Stone Men's nemesis. For that reason, I suspect that the Horns are going to end up cut - the folks who want to keep them have huge disagreements on why.

I also think that the Sand Keepers could be cut and as I did most of the work on them I think I'm entitled to say that without justification.

>> No.38608417

>>38608142
>Also, are we really down to 20 now?
Just about
>Seriously?
Yes
>We started with like, 26.
No, that's wrong. There have been about 40 Legion ideas pitched in the course of this project. Most of the Loyalists that are cut have ended up as Chapters, such as:
http://1d4chan.org/wiki/The_Infernals
http://1d4chan.org/wiki/Mechanist_Warriors
http://1d4chan.org/wiki/The_Saracens
http://1d4chan.org/wiki/Silver_Cataphracts#The_Waste_Walkers
http://1d4chan.org/wiki/Nova_Defenders
While the cut Traitors are being reworked more slowly into Warbands.

>> No.38608591

>>38608142
I didn't even notice the Bulwark getting cut.

>> No.38608646

>>38608312
If the sandies get cut, who do you think will be the anti-Chaos Legion?

>> No.38608702

>>38608646
Eyes of the Emperor.

>> No.38608930
File: 56 KB, 400x500, crimsonhammersconcept.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
38608930

All that talk about Dave made me remember his "Crimson Hammers" proposal. I think they could easily be reworked into a Cataphract or Angel Successor (depending on what's seen to be essential about them). Here's an attempt at a Red Army-based paint scheme.

>> No.38608994

>>38608591
In many ways, that's *why* they were cut. They were a non-person.

I always have and will always love the idea of having an AU with many more Legions, but that seems overly optimistic in light of the fact that we simply don't have enough anons, consistently online. Including myself, almost, since my writing is voluminous, but sporadic.

I don't like cutting Legions, but since apparently my vote got lost somewhere in the shuffle:

>cont

>> No.38609022

>>38608994

>>38594615
I vote for A, simply because the effort is not there on the group's part.

The Gorgers have been a shitshow from the beginning. Nathanog ensured that. Trying to patch them with the Bloodbound was a noble attempt, but I'm not feeling it's success.

The Crusaders are a cool idea, sort of, but again, no effort.

Horns I like as a foil to the other Legions, because their creator wasn't afraid to say "My character is generally a shitty person". Arelex isn't a good guy, but I confess that in general, he trends toward True Neutral at worst, overall working for everyone's benefit, interspersed with some really really callous decisions. Horns were nice for the "Fuck the Everything" attitude. IF they got someone really dedicated to work on them, they're probably the Legion I'd want first off the chop block.

Scions I liked because they were intended to be the Good Guys, which again we don't have many of on the extreme end of the Good-Bad spectrum. They do overlap a lot with Hektor, and although I discussed some ways to diversify them with their anon, I think that ship has now sailed.

The Entombed.... Again, I'm clearly biased, but if Golgothos wants them to die so bad, let's just DO THAT, and embrace all its implications. No Successors, no Scouring, no future, no nothing, except maybe for some lingering echoes that get worked into the Imperial Cult somehow. There's no need to "cut" a Legion that drops out of the story.

"Well, Arelex, then that leaves an odd number of Legions". Easily remedied, if we posit an odd number of Missing Legions, either 1 or 3.

So that's my ideas. *If they help, then use them, if not then don't*.

But I've seen us dragging this dead weight of "Cut Or Not To Cut" for months now, and I feel that it's time to bite the bullet, damn the torpedoes, and cut deeply. If we have to put some things back together later, then so be it. The anons that post consistently will actually *be here to do that*.

>> No.38609185

>>38609022
We do have the Black Augurs as unrepentant bad guys and the Steel Marshals as untarnished good guys.

>> No.38609219

>>38608312
Once again you misplace the intention of words because of a miscommunication or mistake. Do not attribute to malice which can be easily answered by stupidity. I said you wanted to cut the Scale Bearers and Horns, but I did leave out the clause 'only iff no one works on them'. But you were practically the only voice calling for those two Legions culling regardless of any other stipulations, so I made sure your opinion was known. I'm sorry for misrepresenting it.

>>38609022
LCK has been working on his replacement to the BB and Gorgers for a while now. Do you want to leave him out?

Why vote for A when you just said just keep the Entombed?

>> No.38609242

>>38609185
This.

>> No.38609287

>>38607720
Wait, the Scions are gone as well? Fuckdammit. I did offer on multiple occasions to take over and start building them.

>> No.38609300

>>38609185
Oh yeah? Well, that might be ok then, although an asshole mage and an asshole warrior, so to speak, are rather different. Do the Black Augurs smash shit, or are they more "nasty plot" type dudes?

>>38609219
I meant the Entombed thing as "a cut by a different name". Like a half-Missing Legion.

If we cut the BB and Gorgers, but LCK delivers another, workable, distinct Legion Idea later, then we can think of ways to incorporate that, *if we still need or want it*.

Adding in an incomplete idea? No.

If he surprises us all and becomes one of the only non-original guys to bring forth a nearly complete piece? Then we more than likely go the extra mile to work his idea in, as fair trade for him presenting us with a body of real work.

That seems fair, yeah? But we shake off the past in a decisive manner first.

At least, that's how I see it.

>>38609242
Sure, if those two Legions will do, then I have no huge desire to keep Scions or Horns.

>> No.38609357

>>38609219
Voidy actually wanted the Scale Bearers gone more than I did. (>>38594426)

But you talk for other people all the time, usually without reference to what they've actually written. (e.g. Last thread you told me not to propose any further cuts because that would scare people - who?) This isn't a one-off error.

>>38609287
Considering the problems that we've had with your contributions, you can hardly be surprised that nobody was enthusiastic about giving you the Scions.

>>38609300
Black Augurs smash shit. They're not as elemental as the Horns, but my impression is that they are definitely prepared to do some damage.

>> No.38609476

>>38609357
Mmk. Well in that case I'm not so worried about losing the Scions and Horns. Scions could easily be a fragment of Hektor's boys, or a Successor of someone, and the Horns could be a noteworthy Chaos Warband.

Mostly... I just want us to make some decisions and stand by them. I'm ready to take a well considered gamble if you are.

>> No.38609926

>>38609357
Well, that's because with my contributions, I was given free reign to do whatever I liked. The great thing about taking over something pre-established is that there are boundries. I had a large number of idea's for Legions.

Specifically:

They originally created successor chapters, not because of the "Split up the forces to make wide-scale corruption impossible" but because they wanted to create independant groups with their own set goals and objectives. Once those goals were completed, they would be re-assimilated back into the father Legion. This would play into the idea of why they are called "Chapters" in the first place. Each is the chapter of the great legions history book. Of course, over time, this idea was lost and they were never re-assimilated, but the name "Chapter" stuck.

For the Scions, specifically, I had a few idea's from over Europe:

Holy Roman Army: The chapter had no specific standing army, spending most of their time as civillians, the amount of them needed would be randomly selected to don their armour, the moment that their military might was needed. (To Void Angels-ish?)
Alexander the Great: Army makes heavy usage of Power Lances.
Winston Churchill: During the Battle of Terra, Kleisthenese would make daily vox-casts across the entire of the planet to the loyalists, inciting them to fight on, that the Traitors would have to fight on each and every inch of Terra if they were to conquer them.
Nepoleon Boneparte: One of Kleisthenes' weakness' was his overconfidence. As tactically intelligent as he was, and as faith he placed in his commanders. He placed, perhaps, too much. Several battles were complicated by him giving significant control of the army to younger commanders that were determined to prove themselves. This would often pay off, but it could, and would, backfire every now and then.

I have a few more, if you think these ones could work.

>> No.38610056

You know, with this rewrite to the Scale Bearers going on, I'd like to ask you guys - it'd help the Legion if we knew a bit more about Tiran himself, right?

We know he hasn't been shown talking to the other Primarchs much in the past - perhaps we'd know more about him if we fleshed out why?

>> No.38610186

>>38609926
>with my contributions, I was given free reign to do whatever I liked.
No, you were not. You were expected to make something that fit the milieu of the Great Crusade. Not only did you not do any reading on the 40k wiki to get a better feel for that milieu, you scorned the suggestion that you should. Only when things were brought to the point of "fix or we'll remove this" did you seriously incorporate the advice given by other anons.

>ideas for Legions
After that preposterous retrospective I'm not wasting my time on your proposals to resurrect the Scions.

Fix the Horde!

>> No.38610365

>>38607269
>Hektor's desperation
Took me a minute to figure that out. Yeah, I don't see Hektor being the type to get "desperate"

Not going to have much time to work on things until this evening, but I'll get some stuff done tonight.

>> No.38610392

>>38610186
they've been fixed for over a week, you just got snarky and refused to read them.

>> No.38610688

>>38610392
I just read them. They are not fixed.

For the curious reader, let me go over only the more glaring problems with the "fixed" Horde. I'll quote from the 40k (which is copypasted from GW and FW sources):
1. "It was therefore decreed that each of the liberated worlds would supply men-at-arms to bolster the war effort. Although not as powerful as the Space Marine Legions under the various Primarchs' command, the Imperial Army regiments were nevertheless useful additions to the Astartes' fighting strength. Unlike in the present-day Imperium, where the Imperial Guard serves as Mankind's front-line armed force in the defence of the Emperor's realm, the Imperial Army was never anything more than a reserve force for the Imperium during the Great Crusade, and its troops were usually tasked with garrison duty or mopping-up operations. Only in the last decades of that great campaign did Imperial Army troops finally fight directly alongside the forces of one of the ancient Space Marine Legions on campaign."

If FG has read this, he doesn't give a fuck.

2. "The Imperial Army was rarely deployed within the home system of the regiments that comprised it. In fact, this was actively avoided by the Primarchs in command of these regiments to ensure that the soldiers' loyalties lay first and foremost with the individual Primarch and the Space Marine Legion to which they had been attached, and alongside which they fought."

Also ignored in the HoH fluff. The Horde have their own independent command, fight in their own sector of space, and owe their allegiance to no Primarch.

3. "Among the Traitor Legions, almost all of their attached Imperial Army formations uniformly followed their masters into rebellion, out of fear or blind faith."

Again, ignored. The Horde of the Mary Sue tell their Space Marine masters to get bent.

>> No.38610725

>>38610392
>>38610688
Those three are not small points. They are not secrets known only to the initiated. Yet FG proclaims that the Horde are "fixed" even though they go completely against the canon. Because he has "free reign to do whatever".

I mean, we've just talked about the need to cut things that require a lot of time and effort to whip into shape. I'd to propose that we apply that logic to Fundamentalist Guardsman.

>> No.38610769

>>38610688
Interesting. I knew some of this, but I didn't know that the *entire* Imperial Army was a subordinate arm of the Legions.

>> No.38611058

>>38610769
Yeah, the reforms of the Codex were a huge deal. It wasn't just breaking up hundreds of thousands of Astartes, it also broke up the "mini-states" that the Primarchs presided over.

>> No.38611181

>>38611058
Well that actually resolves one of the questions I had had about the Atalantos Worlds.

I had wondered if it was overstepping Arelex's bounds to bring with him the Imperial Army and associated supply trains that he'd need to conquer his chunk of the Galactic Core, but it seems that was actually never a problem, if he presumably had a massive IA detachment under his command like all the other Primarchs.

>> No.38611236

>>38610769
>>38611058
What Lumey says is true. Auxilia are just noted for only ever working with ONE Legion, or just predominantly working with one Legion. The IA majority doesn't normally fight alongside the Legions, but all of them answer to the orders of the nearest Space Marine contingent.

>> No.38611241

>>38610688
Actually, last 2 points were something I was planning on discussing with Aubrey when he got on.

Specifically, I was hoping that they did go into rebellion under the orders of their masters, the Zealots. It's only when Gregorio noticed "Wait a minute... Why are all of these guys fighting in the name of the Emperor, if they are the traitors...? Oh... We done goofed..."

It all falls down to the ambition of Gregorio, he has the one key ambition, to become the most revered millitary commander in the Imperium, which is why he keeps throwing his men at every viable target that there is. A veritable "SOMEBODY FUCKING NOTICE HOW AWESOME I AM!" strategy on his behalf. With this ambition, you might be wondering why he wouldn't turn traitor, I mean, that's being handed fame and fortune on a silver platter, well, that reason is known only to him, a secret that he takes to his death at the end of the Heresy.

And the first point I did read... Which is why you will notice that the Hordes history only really covers about 30 years before the Heresy... Or at least, it covers within the lifetime of Gregorio, who was 50 at the end of the Heresy.

>> No.38611251

>>38611181
Ah. Well, the IA aren't an issue, but the supply trains are.

"The Imperial Expeditionary Fleets that set out from Terra only carried with them the means to fulfill a portion of their supply needs, and simply took what they needed from the worlds they conquered in their travels. Upon the completion of a successful Imperial Compliance action on a world, the Expeditionary Fleet would move on, leaving the assimilation of the planet into the Imperial fold to fleets of pioneers and Terran colonists. Each world, in time, would become fully capable of supporting itself and contributing to the needs of the growing number of Imperial Expeditionary Fleets."

>> No.38611329

>>38611251
Mmk. I guess that's where Arelex's Tech + Logistics/Management comes in, making a large army able to sustain itself even in harsh environments.

I gave Arelex an awful strong "out of combat" focused skill list, so I'm always looking for places to put that to use.

Presumably his IA regiments have learned a few things from him as well.

>> No.38611411

>>38611329
There was an awesome Radioactive-protected Guard regiment that was proposed for the Atalantos Worlds WAAAY back that I could write up for in the Burning Crusade.

>> No.38611462

>>38611411
I appreciate the thought, but I think you should focus on one thing at a time. Keep that idea on a note for yourself though, it'll be good once the Cats and whatever else you have going on are done.

>> No.38611469

>>38611241
Lies. You told me that they were fixed. Not that they were in pretty good shape but you really needed to work out their history. In fact, you were pissy about the fact that I'd previously glanced at the page, seen a WIP tag and said that a review would have been premature. Need I noted that you've tried this bullshit before, even going so far as trying a "ninja edit" after a criticism was levelled?

In addition, even your post-hoc justifications don't address the full weight of the problems. You still have the Horde operating in their own area of space. You still have them as an independent front-line combat arm of the Imperium. You've still awarded them a psyker so powerful that:
>Maa was Queen of the Beastmen, when the Emperor came to their world. Although the Emperor came looking for one of his lost Primarchs, as his ship had discovered a notable Psyker presence
Yet as powerful as this bullshit character is, you say
>When the Council of Nikaea convened, and the order that all Psykers be removed from the Astartes, Maa was brough under investigation. Although the ruling was aimed at the Astartes, rather than the Army (the risk that the Army posed, by going rogue, being marginal, next to that of the Astartes.) All other Shamans in the army were either executed, or taken by the Culexus' to serve as target practice for their anti-psyker warriors and guinea pigs in their attempts to find new and more effective methods of killing these poxes upon the Imperium. Maa, at the insistence of Gregorio, was simply given a handler to make sure that she did not utilize her Psyker powers. She spent the rest of the Crusade under the watchful eye of Judge Garral Montan

And yet, you have gall to claim that they are fixed, that there are no problems, and any that are pointed out you were just about to work on if only someone had WASTED THEIR TIME ON YOU.

If you want to assist this project, my advice is that you fuck off. That would be a big help.

>> No.38611491

>>38611462
Did you check out the write up of Terra above?

Also, I plan to write the Burning Crusade, and filling it out with prominent IA.

>> No.38611747

>>38611469
>Lies.
God dammit man, why is it that you take everything so freaking literally? I said Fixed as in, "Those major things that everyone that has read about it has been griping about it!" No more of the big no-no's.

>Ninja edit
Alright, I'll step out into that one. I actually had completely forgot about that one and quickly editted and hoped nobody noticed, sue me.

>You still have the Horde operating in their own area of space.

According to you, the Haeltoth Starguard primarily operate in their own area of space, calling the Haeltoth systems their "Stomping Ground" I believe.

>Notable Psyker
According to what information I can find, any Psyker that is level 2 upwards is considered a "Notable psyker presence" Also, what exactly is the problem? From what I can tell, your argument there is "What's the point in giving them a powerful Psyker, then having her unable to use that power?" the answer is simply "Because that shit happened everywhere after the Council. As I understand it, everyone from Magnus to the lowly Empath was either executed before they became a threat or placed under observation to make sure they didn't do anything." And as to why Gregorio wanted her saved, she was his advisor.

>> No.38611833

>>38611747
For one, psyker levels aren't measured numerically. Two, a psyker primach's power is beyond any normal psyker's.

Thirdly, why didn't you want anyone to notice the problem you edited?

>> No.38611898

>>38611747
I've given you my advice on how to help the project. For the sake of other anons, I'll clarify this point:

>the Haeltoth Starguard primarily operate in their own area of space, calling the Haeltoth systems their "Stomping Ground" I believe.
They do not and the wiki article does not suggest as much. Nor have I said anything of the sort in threads (>>http://archive.4plebs.org/tg/search/text/Haeltoth/username/Lumey/). The closest I got to such a claim was saying that
>If he's from the Haeltoth Starguard, he grew up on the Haeltoth Stations. That's their recruiting ground.
and
>[The Starguard] don't recruit from "around that sector", they recruit from the Haeltoth stations.

>> No.38611904

>>38611833
1) I meant, as in, any psyker that has the potential to manifest their ability is considered "Notable" by Blackships (I'm afraid i can't find any information on what Emps equipment was like, but I assume it is the same)
2) Which is why I said "Notable" rather than "Primarch" plus, being that several of the Primarchs aren't even Psykers, it is reasonable for Emps to assume that some of them would have substantially lower psyker power.
3) Because I didn't think he was going to call for me to be burned at the stake because of it.

>> No.38611988

>>38608591
>>38608994
I take offence to that, both of yahs.
They were cut because it helped the storyline move along and they could easily be integrated into the Heralds.

>Non-person
Please explain.

>> No.38611996

>>38611898
Alright, I'll take that back. I apologize. And I did fix that problem by saying that he was in an Army that got Cannibalized by the Starguard. (And that I know you said was something that IA's do)

As for this whole "Uninstall the game" advice, I will say that, whilst it is rather tempting, I will kindly decline.

How's about, for the sake of EVERYONE here, we simply agree to disagree and get on with it. you pretend I don't exist and I will be so kind as to do the same.

>> No.38612056

>>38611996
I'm on Lumey's side for this.

>> No.38612089

>>38611988
Mostly referencing what the other guy said about not noticing their exit.

They were non-integral to the story enough that we *had* the freedom to remove them without much disruption. Easy summary of that concept: "Non-person".

>> No.38612193
File: 66 KB, 576x396, BigpimpinV.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
38612193

Restating the current discussion with updated votes. There are also at least 5 people here now who haven't voted, including some long-standing contributors. If you aren't voting for a reason, please let that reason be known (Like if you're anti-democratic because of your weird political or spiritual beliefs)

>The support for B is pretty strong, make your opinion known if you prefer another option before it's too late!!!!!!!

>Option A: Lumey's Original plan
Cut 6 legions: The BB, Gorgers, Horns of Ruin, Scions of Europa, The Entombed, and The Crusaders

>Option B: Alex's plan.
Cut 4 Legions: As above, keeping The Entombed and the BB/Gorgers as a merged legion.

>Option C: Lumey's Plan II
Cut 6 Legions: The Horns of Ruin, Scions of Europa, The Crusaders, The Mastodontii, and the Scale Bearers

>Option D: Cut Nothing

A: 1 vote? (Arelex?)
B: 4 Votes (Alex, Lumey, Voidy, LCK)
D: 1 Vote (Golgothos)

1 abstention (Merril)

>> No.38612219

>>38611988
I'm sure that Arelex meant to say that making the Bulwark into a splinter from the Heralds actually made their concept stronger - perhaps because this lets you go straight to your ideas for Indomitus, rather than trying to "back-date" them to the Legion.

>>38611996
>let's agree to disagree
So you mean that I should give you a free hand and in return you - what? Stop lying to me? While your candour in >>38611904 is appreciated, saying that you'll lie when you think you can get away with it (and implying that any resentment of such dishonesty is unwarranted) doesn't make the sort of person I want to work with. I doubt that anyone in the project feels strongly to the contrary.

>> No.38612254

>>38612193
>Option C only lists 5 Legions. Who's the 6th?

>> No.38612262

>>38612089
I suppose.
To be fair, that wasn't much my fault; I picked up a Dead Legion who basically did nothing.
The fact that they were even still around is a miracle.

>>38612219
Perhaps.

>> No.38612288

>>38612262
Just to be clear, I'm not insulting you here. It was a good try, and you should be commended that their re-purposing was one of our more painless tasks.

>>38612193
I'm still with vote A, but if the group strongly supports B, I can work with that too.

>> No.38612294

>>38612254
Ah, it gets lost in translation, but its the BB going into the Gorgers that counts as #6.

>> No.38612342

>>38612288
Yeah, man, I know you weren't, no worries.

>> No.38612445

>>38612193
>>38612262
>>38612219
>>38612288
Thoughts on the Siege, please? I want to know if it looks all good so I can start writing some stuff in wordpad for the War in Sol in general.

By the way, is there a consensus on who's going to be at Terra on the Traitor side? That's extremely important.

>> No.38612474

>>38612219
Actually, I didn't lie (That I can remember) I never actually said "I put that in that thing before you read it" I may have said "I put that in there" but I never downright stated "You just didn't see it, get your head in the game"

You sir, are creating a strawman fallacy. "He said this one thing, so let's take that for its literal meaning. He lied to me and he will lie to every one of you! he will lie to get away with anything that he so desires!!!"

>> No.38612497

>>38612445
Markian Corps. They need to be there. Mostly Ranc.

>> No.38612526

>>38612497
Aren't they concentrated in Pacificus? Also if Lumey agrees to it they'll be JDO+Kon's taskforce speartip.

>> No.38612621

>>38612526
I thought the Mad Cats were also in Pacificus? That's where we're regrouping, right?

>> No.38612663

>>38612445
I dumped a whole shitload of knowledge on you in Skype (just science facts, in case anyone's worried, they're just too lengthy for me to want to write them up in-thread).

Much of what you've written seems solid though, although the caveat is that tracking characters, motivations, and locations isn't my strong point. It's very possible there's logical fallacies there that I didn't see.

>> No.38612667

>>38612621
Mad Cats are moving their base from Rosskar to Sol towards the end of the Crusade, a decade or two before Hektor's fall at Cadia I'm imagining. I'm actually thinking it's a calculated move made by Hektor to get Alexandri from his fief, in a way that he cannot refuse since who would decline becoming the Emperor's chosen protectors?

The people regrouping in Pacificus are the Steel Marshals and Void Angels now.

>> No.38612678

>>38612445
OK. I think you're rushing this in while the discussion on cutting Legions is still being worked through. There are other things you could work on without trying to force our hands.

>>38612474
Discussion was at (>>http://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/38162077/#38179225) and follows on. Other anons can make up their mind. I feel that you have been rude and dismissive towards people who have tried to help you, and your attitude in this thread is only a continuation of that counter-productive method.

>>38612526
Markians are not second-class Chassuers. They're more closely tied to the Forge World Ghalhal and one of their Corps could have found its way to Sol. (Not easily, but it could have happened.)

(It has been established that Marius Marie-Gaston Verdun leads is at the head of their Pacificus-based forces that join Lumey's effort to break the Siege of Terra, but it's little more than a name-drop.)

>> No.38612780

>>38612678
>OK. I think you're rushing this in while the discussion on cutting Legions is still being worked through.
The votes are ticking in and a consensus is being reached. I'd rather get what's been holding us down worked out in an outline we all get so we can finally say: Alright this is the plan. I've been getting tons of input from others on what to do: Removal of thought crimes for Alexandri, making the destruction of Segmentum Solar less random, not so stretching belief, and more focused on being a move to force Hektor to take a less immediate route to Terra. I like to think how Alexandri is different from Dorn and I'm loving all the nuts I can crack with that. With having Onyx and the Stone Men be their crazy awesomeness, the Sand Keepers holding the line, the Entombed being the backbone of it all. The sacrifices and gains made by the Imperial Army in the darkest of times. The audacity of Hektor's plans and the cunning of his commanders. The depravity of the fallen Primarchs and so on.

Is being the speartip of a massive Imperial Army based assault being second class? I'm saying JDO uses them above the Chassuers. Unless you're saying have a Cibanese based commander leading them undervalues the Pact.

Alright, would you rather me just continue to write Arkendar and the Sons of Fire?

>> No.38612831

>>38612445
Bringers are at Terra as far as I know, so if you want to utilize them and daemonic Johannes go ahead. If they need to be elsewhere, then put them elsewhere, I have no strong opinions on the matter since they need to do "Nurgle legion stuff" in the and they're in a few places because of that.

Siege looks pretty good to me as a start, but Lumey is correct in stating that it's a bit premature

>> No.38612876

>>38612667
Ah.

>> No.38612886

>>38612678
I dismissed all of the helpful "Stop being retarded, delete this whole thing" and "You know that one thing that you said you didn't want this to become? You should totally make it into that!" comments

Again, you may notice that half of the Horde is currently built off of what you, yourself suggested. And, if I'm not mistaken, and forgive me if I am, but most of the arguing about the horde that hasn't come from the two of us (E.G. everyone else commenting) has either been:

A) Implemented
B) About the Tech Sorcerers.

I don't have the time to go through and completely confirm this, but from what I can find, most of the feedback from everyone that wasn't you, was about the Tech Sorcerers, and why they are a shithead idea.

>> No.38612972

>>38612193

I'd have to vote B... But, I think we should keep the Horns. I like the Horns a little too much to see them getting completely cut out. And with the Knights gone, I think that the Crusaders take up a little much fluff to just scrap entirely.

At the very least, can we keep the Horns idea of "Dividing Cities into different sectors, each that worships a different Chaos God" because I really think that's a good idea.

>> No.38613018

>>38612972
B does keep them in at the expense of the Mastodontii. Steel Marshals also have strong, super strong knightly themes that will presumably swallow up the Crusader's bits.

>At the very least, can we keep the Horns idea of "Dividing Cities into different sectors, each that worships a different Chaos God" because I really think that's a good idea.
Never know where you got that idea, that's never been on the table.

>> No.38613048

>>38612193
Because people keep complaining about my abstention, D.

>> No.38613068

>>38613018
>Sectors
Pretty sure he means the Horns' Demon World idea.

>> No.38613102

>>38613018
You are very right, I apologize. It was from Kranios' page, and I got mixed up. Sorry, he has 5 cities, each one dedicated to a different Chaos God, with the central one being his that he sits back and reaps the benefits from... Keep that.

>> No.38613176

>>38613068
yes, that one, I like it. Specifically because that attitude kinda encompasses all of the chaos gods in 1.

Nurgle: Being a parasite of the accomplishments of others.
Khorne: sitting comfortably, knowing that hundreds of people around you are dying every minute.
Tzeench: Let others do the work for me... Just as planned...
Slaanesh: Sit around with bitches in each arm.

>> No.38613178

>>38612780
There are three issues with that.
1. Onyx clearly isn't thrilled about his Legion being yanked to Terra.
2. I still think the Sand Keepers should probably be cut.
3. Hektor and his Legion still need work.

As for "second-class Chasseurs", I really mean that Zorg is not my henchman and while the setting does require the Markians to be strongly associated with Fifth Legion they do other things - especially alongside Ghalhal's Taghmata Omnissiah. Considering their location, there's no reason why a maniple of Legio Cataegis, supported by their Knights, Legio Cybernetica, and Markian infantry, couldn't have been dispatched towards Terra to fight for the Loyalist cause.

>>38612886
>dismissive
>>http://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/38162077/#38179187
>>http://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/38162077/#38180470

I suspect that diving the archives deeper would find more of this.

>you're the only one that has a problem
>>38612056
>>http://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/38162077/#38180579

>Tech Sorcerers
They are shitty and everyone hates them and yet you're still trying to keep them in!

>> No.38613248

>>38613178
>1. Onyx clearly isn't thrilled about his Legion being yanked to Terra.
I think Onyx is just confused, and if he isn't, should state clearly his grievances right away.

>2. I still think the Sand Keepers should probably be cut.
This is bullshit and you know it. I will vote D if you choose this. I will not have you throwaway the Legion people wanted in the most during my phase of cuts.

>3. Hektor and his Legion still need work.
They're more complete than most and they're coming together quickly. Their central idea is there now, too.

>Considering their location, there's no reason why a maniple of Legio Cataegis, supported by their Knights, Legio Cybernetica, and Markian infantry, couldn't have been dispatched towards Terra to fight for the Loyalist cause.

Besides the giant warpstorm cutting the Imperium in half?

>The Horde
That comment still stands right this fucking second. We at least agree in this.

>> No.38613327

>>38613048
I said I'd prefer if people didn't abstain, because we need people to voice their desires in order to get an actual group consensus. You don't need to be all pissy about it, it's not a personal attack.

If D is what you *want*, then I appreciate you making the active, rather than the passive, choice. That has a lot of value. :)

>> No.38613336

>>38613178
Ghalhal best hal.
>>38613248
They have a warpstorm, we have Ranc. Ane I think Lumey's talking about before the Heresy starts. Not that they need to be there; the Markians can fight their way there like everybody else.

>> No.38613392

>>38613178

>dismissive

I fucking want to know what happened to that. Because I know that those suggestions went into Pastebin, which is why he said

>"I went through this with him when he first proposed them, very patiently, and he did a lot of pastebin revisions, to the point it seemed at least workable."
>"But what you are quoting seems like the original "fuck no" version we all pretty much railed against."

If you don't believe anything else I say, believe that I am absolutely fucking fuming that I lost that, because it was actually something that me, Uriel and Brennus all thought could work.

>Tech Sorcerers
Not trying to keep them in. They are gone until they can be reworked into a form that people can like... Rest assured that if they can't be reformed in such a way, then they will not be returning.

I am trying to stop the arguing, not bring it back with "LIKDISIDEAORIGETMADOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!!"

>> No.38613407

>>38613248
>Onyx is confused
He is, and you should be more patient with the guy. You're basically ordering him to do a complete rewrite on his Legion story.

>SKs and blackmail
That's hardly a constructive comment.

>The Heralds are coming together quickly
No, actually, I'm a bit stalled and need time to work up the Great Crusade stuff that will show, rather than tell, who they are.

>Ghalhal vs. the Warpstorm
Other Loyalist forces do travel the warp in the period. If Ghalhal answers Alexandri's call right at the start, their forces have years to make it to their destination. If you want the journey to be harrowing, they could be arriving at Terra right before the Traitors show up.

>> No.38613444

>>38613327
I didn't take it as one, I just wanted a more thorough answer to what is established that would need to be changed before voting.

>> No.38613520

>>38613407
>You're basically ordering him to do a complete rewrite on his Legion story.
I've not been careful with my words or tone. I just wanted to tell him the idea as a way to sell it to him, get the idea in his head and let the gears twist on his ownsome. I didn't want to say 'THIS IS HAPPENING NOW', but rather 'man think about how AWESOME this could be'. It'd also firmly remove his Legion from being compared to the Entombed, and instead compared to the Imp-Fists and White Scars(This is a positive thing).

>That's hardly a constructive comment.
I and others want the SK around, and to constantly throw them to the chopping block despite both no one wanting and no worthy candidate around to replace them, is not helping matters. You're actively hurting any attempt at cuts, in fact, by doing so. I would not give up the SK for the Crusaders. A consensus will become muddled, and reaching an end to this will become an ever further goal. The SK fit a gap nicely. They're very unique, their Primarch is amazing. They help me work the narrative of the Siege nicely. Removing them throws me out of whack and I don't want to work with whatever replaces them because simply put they are the best at the role they fill right now.

That might be a bunch of rambling but I feel strongly about this.

>I'm a bit stalled and need time to work up the Great Crusade stuff that will show, rather than tell, who they are.
Understood. I'll stop then, if that is the case.

>Other Loyalist forces do travel the warp in the period. If Ghalhal answers Alexandri's call right at the start, their forces have years to make it to their destination. If you want the journey to be harrowing, they could be arriving at Terra right before the Traitors show up.
Up to you and Zorg in that case. I'm not opposed to the idea anymore. The Markians can serve admirably in the Defense of the Palace and stalling Hektor's Charge to Himalazia.

>> No.38613573
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38613573

There are a number of legions on the chopping block because of a combined lack of decent content(whether missing, incomplete, or just shitty), active writers, and overlap. The legions listed in these cut-plans all have been put forward as having one or more of these problems, but I invite you to COMPARE these pages with more complete ones

It has been mentioned several times that people want to trade cutting the Horns of Ruin for the Mastodontii in option B. So I have amended that. Let me know if that's wrong, and I'll change it back before next thread.

Thanks to everyone who has voted. Please voice any concerns about the possible changes.

>Option A: Lumey's Original plan
Cut 6 legions: The BB, Gorgers, Horns of Ruin, Scions of Europa, The Entombed, and The Crusaders

>Option B: Alex's plan.
Cut 4 Legions: As above, keeping The Entombed, the BB/Gorgers as a merged legion, and (possibly) keeping the Horns of Ruin in exchange for cutting the Mastodontii

>Option C: Lumey's Plan II
Cut 6 Legions: The Horns of Ruin, Scions of Europa, The Crusaders, The Mastodontii, and the Scale Bearers

>Option D: Cut Nothing

Option E: We come up with two new plans plus the existing option D based on changing tides and hold a fresh vote at the start of next thread.

Results

A: 1 vote (Arelex)
B: 6 Votes (Alex, Lumey, Voidy, Aubrey, LCK, FG)
D: 2 Votes (Golgothos, Merrill)

>> No.38613679

>>38613573
I vote E - some of the stuff discussed is now being worked on.

>> No.38613721

>>38613573
>>38613407
>>38613248
>>38613178

I do not see a single mention of the Sand Keepers being cut in any of these voting options, not even the original one Lumey proposed. I think you guys are arguing about a phantom?

>> No.38613742

>>38613721
Lumey is continuously mentioning axing them.

>> No.38613753

>>38613520
>Markian stalling Hektor's charge
I like the sound of that. Give it a few titans and anything is possible.

>> No.38613786

>>38613742
If he's that dead set on it, then why didn't he mention them either time he had the chance?

He must not strongly desire to have them gone. And looking at their page and all the work that's gone into them, I confess I don't see a huge need to have them gone either.

>> No.38613821
File: 158 KB, 516x387, 1412038323386.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
38613821

>>38613392
>Prasra isn't the Tech Sorcerers
pic related

>Pastebin
Closest I ever found to the legendary document was >>http://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/37139506/#37170084, but Uriel didn't reply to you in that thread and the text is still extremely problematic.

At any rate, the fact that you didn't raise the point again, despite Brennus's advice to get more eyes on it, is pretty telling.

>>38613520
>not careful with words or tone
Exactly. Re-read your post at >>38605540, Onyx's reply at >>38606751 and yours again at >>38607720. Ease off on this and if you are calling on Onyx to rewrite entirely, don't just say "it's all up to you, buddy!" as though it's a favour.

>SK
Assuming that your plan went ahead, you've got three Legions for the defence of Terra (the Entombed, the Cataphracts, and the Stone Men) even without the Sand Keepers. There's no need to replace them.

As for the complaint that their removal would disrupt your plans, that's exactly what I'm warning you about. I don't think the discussion is closed, please don't blackmail people into closing it.

>>38613721
After support for the round of cuts moved behind B because it didn't mean losing anything against the wishes of the anon working on it, I made the offer to remove the SKs parallel to one more Traitor Legion to go to 18. At present I think it's most likely that the Horns would be the ones to go, because their future is so contested (either blank slate for Vetrovnak as Alex proposes or built up as the rival of the Stone Men as Onyx wanted).

>> No.38613872

>>38613821
So... Horns get cut, to preserve the Keepers? Do I have you right?

Cause that does seem like a reasonable trade overall.

>> No.38613903

>>38613573
Option E may not be very helpful, because now when the chips are down there's a high chance of last-minute scrambling to say "HEY WE HAVE CONTENT NOW", because people are always motivated by last minute panic.

Source: I went to college, I saw that shit every day, without fail.

>> No.38613904

>>38613872
>So... Horns get cut, to preserve the Keepers? Do I have you right?
No, I think both should go.

>> No.38613995

>>38613904
Well, I know the Keepers did eventually become your work, more or less, so if you really think they're bad, then I guess we should take your opinion seriously.

But, they feel like they have a distinct theme, and a VERY distinct Primarch, along with a solid body of work. I don't think we gain anything by losing Darius.

>> No.38614040

>>38613821
Almost all references to the Tech Sorcerers have been removed from Prasra... The only reference to them is that Kaal is still in it, but he's been changed into a rogue Techpriest. If you do spot any, please point them out so I can delete them.

At the moment, Prasra is just proof that you need to outman, outmaneuver, outgun, outsize and partially outwit the Mastadontii in order to get onto the same playing field as them..

As for the pastebin, the reason why it isn't on 4plebs, is because it was discussed over the IRC, ask either of those 2 yourself.

And I want to find it. I really fucking do, because then we can stop all this horse-shit. Contrary to popular belief, i'm not TRYING to piss people off, I am just one of those people that seems to accomplish this, despite attempts otherwise.

>> No.38614041

>>38613995
Nonetheless, anons were very reluctant to pursue a cut if the contributor did not give their express permission. I'm the major contributor, I give my permission to cut here. This is a way to save the Scale Bearers while still radically simplifying the project.

>> No.38614163

>>38613821
Entombed: 10,000
Stone Men: 80,000
Sand Keepers: 115,000
Silver Cataphracts: 190,000

Cataphracts lose half their numbers in the lead up to the Siege, Entombed another half. The Sand Keepers lose 20,000. The Stone Men lose 5,000 in the actions at Saturn and Mars(Void Combat).

That's 255,000 Marines against thrice that. Furthermore, without the SK, all Legions will suffer MORE casualties as a result.

So we either yet again bump the Stone Men's numbers despite the wishes of Onyx, add in another Loyalist Legion, or move some Traitors away from the push towards Terra for whatever reason.

I don't like any of the solutions in the above paragraph. I like simply having the Sand Keepers.

>>38613995
>Well, I know the Keepers did eventually become your work, more or less, so if you really think they're bad, then I guess we should take your opinion seriously.
It's not like I've been talked off a balcony before with one of my Legions or anything.

>I don't think we gain anything by losing Darius.
He plays with his Legion well and is a good loyalist Primarch who isn't loyal for not boring reasons like Dorn or Sanguinous who are practically simply 'loyal to the core for little reason else than they are'. He gives the Loyalists some sympathy when you have Legions like 'Those planets sure do burn good' Arelex, 'God I hate people' Alexandri, 'Why won't you shits get together' Lumey. Darius is a good man for Lumey to be painted on, the person who shows goodness in psykers when compared to Voidwatcher(Magnus was a tragic story, but Voidwatcher is anything but tragic). He's one of the nicest(a very specific 40k definition of the word) Primarchs, especially now that Tollund is gone. Hell, I'd say with the loss of the Mastodontii why don't you add some periphery details of them to the Sand Keepers such as the retention of local cultures? Roman is just honorable, not nice, and Onyx is simple but still kind in his own way.

Darius is wholly unique, and needed.

>> No.38614165

>>38614040
Also, I resent the implication that I just humoured those two and went "Well, we made something worthwhile... GUESS I WON'T BE NEEDING IT!" before setting fire to it and just doing my own thing.

Mainly because I actually respect Uriel and Brennus more than anyone else on here.

>> No.38614177
File: 30 KB, 201x281, Steel Marshal Tactical 2.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
38614177

>>38606786
The purple denotes membership among the Couro Prido.

>> No.38614239

>>38614177
Purple looks good with red and black.

Also we have plenty of grey, Roman. Lots of it in fact. Take a look at the Crusaders nazi-esque look, meant to be very 'teutonic' in appearance. Do you think you can have that with the Steel Marshals?

Also, I'd like for you to take the time to read some of the proposals and vote on one please.

This post contains all the info you need: >>38613573

>> No.38614290

>>38614040
At the moment, you are saying that you don't want arguments on the Horde, but you aren't resolving the problems that fuel those arguments. That comes across as a bullying tactic to get what you want - if anyone accepted that principle, then they'd have to not criticise your (highly problematic) work. So, given that you refuse to leave, here's a proposal for staying and being helpful:

Take a month to fix the Horde. Go over the 30k fluff on the 40k wiki. Each time you're looking at an element, rather than assume you know the answer based on your knowledge of 40k, compare it to what's said about the Great Crusade era. Make them a thing that you think would actually belong to that period.

Then re-open the discussion based on what's there. If people complain about what you have, don't get defensive. Point to your reasoning for having that stuff still around, preferably by quoting a parallel from the OU or AU. Resist the temptation to say, "but you said this in IRC or a thread".

>>38614163
>numbers
That's pre-Malluma. The Sand Keepers got slaughtered by the minions of Tzeentch before making it to Terra. Or do you want to keep the SKs but get me to rewrite them?

>> No.38614293

>>38613573
D

>>38614239
Honestly I've had this paint scheme since the beginning, and it's never been a problem.

>> No.38614361

>>38614293
Yes it was. We had a thread about redoing schemes, but you weren't around for that if I can remember.

>>38614290
I forgot Malluma, but point still stands the Stone Men and Entombed which are under strengthened enough will be even more taxed without another Legion around. And I want that Legion to be the Sand Keepers.

Also answer the rest of the points in that post. Darius is excellent, his Legion is just as good, and I'd rather have them over anything else right now.

>> No.38614429

>>38614177
Gray and Purple.

Now where have I seen that before...

>> No.38614486

>>38614290
Wait, how is "Attempting to bring hostilities to a swift close" bullying tactics? I am saying that I had a solution and it is gone. 2 other people saw me with this solution, so I know i wasn't imagining it. I am trying to resolve the problem.

Fine, i'll go and try again. I'll try and have them fixed in time for Wrestlemania.

>> No.38614511

>>38613573
Can I change my vote to E, since that is now an option?

>> No.38614606

>>38614511
If we can get a couple proposals that make sense to people, and if the next thread can finally end this discussion one way or the other, then sure.

I feel very strongly that we need to have closure on this, and we need it now, regardless of the consequences or the hurt feelings. I'm so fucking tired of this "will we won't we" regarding trimming Legions. If we're gonna do it, then we need to do it, and if not, then we need to basically demand work be done.

It is utterly meaningless to keep a Legion and then not finish it, or to throw a bunch of random shit into the Legion to pretend like it's a fleshed out story. Neither path is good.

It requires people to be held accountable, is the big thing. So even if we vote to keep everything, I feel like it HAS to come with a time limit, beyond which there is no arguing, they simply get deleted from the Wiki.

Does that sound fair to you, and everyone else reading?

>> No.38614682

>>38613573
cut the crusaders, the scions, and merge the gorgers/bloodbound

>> No.38614685

>>38614293
There were concerns voiced about the scheme in a prior thread, but I think you missed it. Complaints:
>>http://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/37854231/#37869212
>>http://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/37854231/#37872017

>>38614361
>I forgot Malluma
...
It's really central to the story of a Legion and a Primarch that you say you really like. I mean, the previous conception for Terra was that the Crusaders and Scions both had nearly their full strength to fight Hektor, and the Sand Keepers supported them against the daemonic threat (something they'd become experienced with at Malluma). Now you're saying that they need to have come through Malluma in shape to do the heavy lifting because the Stone Men and the Entombed aren't going to be up to it.

>>38614486
>Fine, I'll go and try again
OK.

>> No.38614751

>>38614606
See, I don't think we do need to "Demand work be done" for what Golgothos said back during his big storm off.

This attitude treats this project like a job that we aren't getting paid for and eliminates a lot of the fun in it. Hell, that's why I joined in the first place. Have fun.

I find it kinda ironic that this project has kinda gone the same way as the OU "Started off when a couple of people came together to have fun, but then devolved into something else." Only, whereas OU went from "Let's have fun!" to "I just don't care, add whatever you want..." this appears to have gone from "Let's have fun!" to "Fun!? You want to have fun!? You came to the wrong place to do that! This needs to be finished!"

I hate the fact that this is me throwing a live grenade into the middle of the room, but I think it's something that needs to be said. I think we have lost sight of why we even started this...

>> No.38614792
File: 27 KB, 201x281, Steel Marshal.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
38614792

>>38614685
>>38614429
>>38614361
I mean the scheme was steelblue/gold, purple for important people but like, what would you guys suggest?

>> No.38614829
File: 49 KB, 625x1252, 29447659698.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
38614829

>>38614751

>> No.38614834

>>38614685
I'm tracking 12 different threads at once. Cut me some slack. Malluma got slotted in as 'defining moment of chaos-killing' for the Legion. I just oddly forgot the losses incurred by the battle on the SK. And the SK do supporting, and without that support, the Catpahracts will lose even more Astartes leading up to the siege, meaning there is less Cataphracts to help the Stone Men and Entombed in the void actions during the War in Sol.

All of this appears minor, since it's just what I've come up with for the Heresy. Okay, fine, that's valid criticism.

But what is GAINED by removing the Sand Keepers and Darius? What do we GET out of it? A lower number of total Legions? When has that ever been the goal?

>>38614792
God that looks unappealing.

>> No.38614900

>>38614751
I'd like to someday move beyond the Heresy. That would be fun. But if a bunch of Legions aren't finished, then I'm writing a separate AU within the AU, the "War Scribes story, if the writer never read anything about the other Legions, because the War Scribes now exist in an empty universe".

I'd just be writing my own lonely little thing.

If we simply want shit to end at the Heresy and never go beyond it, then fine. But even then it's a tapestry with chunks missing.

Nothing makes sense if we haven't at least demanded some work be done here.

And we've asked for it nicely and waited for it long enough. Nothing really moves forward. We've been doing this same shit for months. This not demanding it become a job. If you feel that way, REALLY feel that way, then you need to not work on a Legion, but work on things that can be their own little mini-arcs.

So this is not "fun versus no-fun". That is a flat out wrong thing to think. Leaving threads dangling everywhere is not fun.

It's just another goddamned incomplete 4chan project that people stopped working on because "Waaaahhh, it's too hard to finish things, it's no fuuuuuuun".

>> No.38614949

>>38614900
we could have moved beyond the heresy but we kept making radical changes that pulled everyone back in.
why make an entirely new heresy with less legions when we can just extrapolate on the ones that already are here?
we're just making more work for ourselves

>> No.38614963
File: 27 KB, 201x281, Steel Marshal Redo.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
38614963

>>38614792
There's not a lot I can think of. You don't have to be rude.

>> No.38614997

>>38614949
This will be the final change, Onyx.

No more revisions.

After the votes are tallied, a consensus is reached, everyone must make their bed with the new direction and we stick to it religiously.

>> No.38615000

>>38614963
Mean for >>38614834

>> No.38615027

>>38615000
>>38614963
It does, I'm sorry.

This is far better. Could the grey be white tho? And the gold brighter? Why such muted colors?

>> No.38615058

>>38614900
Fair enough. It's just the way you worded it "DEMAND work from people" just didn't sit right with me. It made it seemed as though "Getting this done" was higher on your agenda than "Having fun whilst making something."

Then again, it's hard to express tone through text. I mean, this post is meant as a sincere attempt to say "Ok, i misunderstood what you meant" but probably comes across as "I disagree, so i'm going to be a condescending cunt" because it lacks the human face and tone to express what kind of context it's supposed to be taken in.

>> No.38615073

>>38614834
>what is GAINED by removing the Sand Keepers and Darius?
They're still not finished. Contrary to what you might think, I don't have unlimited writing time or ideas to flesh out the Legions. A quick glance at the Sand Keepers' doctrine and equipment sections should show that I was scraping the bottom of the barrel with them.

I'm telling you that I can tidy up the Void Angels, finish the Heralds (probably) and get the Eyes OR the Keepers written, and that I simply have more to work with for the Eyes. While Octullus-anon might have had some bad ideas, he had a lot of good ones, too. Darius-anon basically gave us "good guy Primarch and psyker Legion, maybe my guy ends up on the Golden Throne?"

>>38614949
I understand why you feel that way, and it's an accurate account of how you've been treated by the project at large. But it's not true of the general flow.

>>38614997
If this is the case then I want to vote E because I'm not actually happy with B, I just thought that it would do until events showed its shortcomings.

>> No.38615087

>>38614997
okay, but I'm making my stand by saying the only legions that should be removed are the crusaders, the scions, and that the BB/gorgers should be merged

>> No.38615174

>>38615073
Did you ever think that I might want to write for the Sand Keepers for a bit? And even bottom of the barrel is SOMETHING.

The Sand Keepers have more life put into them I'd say any of the OU Legions.

>> No.38615189

>>38615058
When I say "Demand", I don't mean it in a harsh way.

I mean it in a "We can no longer afford to waffle about on this issue."

We all need, and *should* demand, a *decisive* conclusion to this, so that we CAN return to having fun and making progress.

This is not an attempt to kill the fun, this is an attempt to remove a source of confusion that's bred nothing but misunderstandings, arguments, and lackluster attempts to revive dead Legions. I consider that very not-fun, for all parties. And the evidence seems clear that that's the case.

A freeform project is all well and good, but it's not wrong to set ourselves good guidelines to follow. That will make things easier on all of us, and it will allow us to focus on being creative, rather than yelling at each other.

Does that make more sense now where I'm coming from and what I'm trying to "demand" of the assembled here?

>> No.38615192

>>38614997
>we stick to it religiously

WE WILL BE AS THE AMERICAN ARMY! NEVER BACK DOWN, NEVER SURRENDER, NEVER ADMIT A MISTAKE!!!

Seriously, though, I think religiously is a little strong, because it could turn out that we made the wrong decision...

>> No.38615241

>>38615174
Would you rather the Eyes were cut? It would mean losing the Treason of the Ten, but I could make some of their themes work based on a mash-up of Octullus Tyran and Phirun Soun as the Void Angels' Chief Librarian.

>> No.38615246
File: 25 KB, 201x281, Steel Marshal Redo2.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
38615246

>>38615027
I'm a mute kind of guy.

>> No.38615273

>>38615192
The whole point is that there *is* no right or wrong decision. We as the group need to decide what we want to live with, and then live with it.

Because the alternative is always having threads like these, with no content and lots of argument.

This is not so black and white as you want it to be.

There IS NO mistake, if the group makes the decision. There are only different roads traveled.

>> No.38615276
File: 26 KB, 201x281, Steel Marshal Redo3.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
38615276

>>38615246

>> No.38615279

>>38615189
Oh yeah, I get that and I respect it. That's what my previous comment was supposed to indicate. Without guidelines we get... The Horde of the Hated... And nobody wants this to fall into Chaos. (Except Khorne)

>> No.38615297
File: 26 KB, 201x281, Steel Marshal Redo4.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
38615297

>>38615276

>> No.38615338

>>38615297
Perfection.

>> No.38615355

>>38615297
How would it look quartered?

>> No.38615371

>>38615297
It's beautiful.

>> No.38615397

>>38615273
yes, we need to just move on and let it go
GW's heresy (especially now with BL material) has about 1/5th the amount of thought put into it as this does by now

>> No.38615409

>>38615241
Actually, I can go one better than this. The Sand Keepers and Eyes could be merged. Octullus' story is less-developed, so Darius would be their Primarch, but the Ten are better henchmen and they could lead the bulk of the Legion into Heresy while Darius is at Malluma.

>>38615297
>>38615355
I agree that Quartering is worth a look.

>> No.38615415
File: 27 KB, 201x281, Steel Marshal Redo5.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
38615415

>>38615338
>>38615355
>>38615371
>>38615409

>> No.38615452

>>38615415
YES.

>> No.38615453

>>38615415
>>38615297
tough choice, they both look so good
but the chainsword makes me think you should have some sort of stripes/design incorporated, because it matches pretty well

>> No.38615458

>>38615415
Sex on legs. OU barely uses quartering at all, it's an insanely distinctive look almost regardless of color choice.

My vote's here, or some subtle variation of it, like if you want the red-white flipped left to right or whatever.

>> No.38615473

>>38615409
Can the neo-Eye Keepers be vaguely Arabic and still have a Blood Angels-like Librarium?

In that case, I have no qualms with this outcome and think it's perfect. I would say though there shouldn't be a 50/50 split, but more of a 30/70 split in favor of the Loyalists. This is because Darius cannot be in a Brennus situation when he gets to Terra, and he needs a bigger amount of loyalists so Malluma doesn't totally wreck the loyalist numbers after the split.

>>38615415
SHIT NIGGA

I usually hate quartering but this just changed my mind.

>> No.38615488

>>38615415
I really like it, but is it possible to see the colours reversed? (i.e. with a Red Shield)

>> No.38615533
File: 183 KB, 281x411, Crusaders.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
38615533

>>38614792
This is an old design I made for Crusaders, but I think it could also work for Steel Marshals if you are looking for "Steelblue/Purple/Gold"

>> No.38615549

*****

NEW THREAD

>>38615530

*****

NEW THREAD

>>38615530

*****

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