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[ERROR] No.38571702 [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

Assume the Adeptus Custodes were working on unfucking the Emperor's human webway project since he got stuck on the throne under his direction and finally got it fixed. Nothing else changes but humanity now has its own webway system the way the Emperor intended.

What would change?

>> No.38572060

>>38571702
In no way, because you got exactly one webway opening, in the inner palace, no way of replicating the gate anywhere else, and you're most likely getting invaded by Necrons and Dark Eldar now that there's an intact stretch of the webway.

>> No.38572116

>>38571702
Ho-lee-shit.

I don't think you understand the implications of such a thing happening, much less the after affect.

First of all, that would defy the golden rule of warhammer; That everyone is pants-on-head retarded. Even the abhuman supersoldiers who do not conventionally age have neither the capacity nor the intelligence to complete such a task. Even the highest echelons of the Adeptus Mechanicus can do no more than slap their dicks against the Golden Throne and it's webway system in an attempt to maintain it's deteriorating condition. It takes all their effort to just prevent it from failing harder and deteriorating faster, much less maintain it's current condition or, god forbid, improve it.

And it's basically established that the Adeptus Custodes, while being near primarch levels of strength and power, they lack the capacity for tactics, teamwork and basic empathy compared to the Adeptus Astartes. The same Adeptus Astartes that are famous for slaughtering their allies, eating women and children and chaining their blood-crazed brothers to the roofs of their chapel monasteries in little metal boxes, waiting out their screaming black rage moment of altzimers, schizophrenia and minor aneurisms.

If the brain-dead, half naked collection of /fit/ models sitting on terra in their golden armour, and their more-machine-than-man counterparts in the Mechanicus can manage to stop shitting out their brains for five seconds and fix the Webway, it would send shocks of ungodly repercussions through the Imperium.

First and fore-most. No more need for navigators. That would mean that thousands upon thousands of bureaucrats, rogue traders, political juggernauts and ecclesiarchal planet-sized chapels will no longer be useful or required. The emperor's plan, once the human webway was done, was to wipe out all psyker mutants, eliminating the requirement for them and the need to play politics.

continued next, fuck post limit.

>> No.38572185

>>38571702
entire companies of imperial guard arriving from deepstrike.

warp travel is for the most part obsolete.

the navy is reorganized and ships retrofitted.

maybe even a new crusade.

>> No.38572270

>>38572116
The Imperium would still definitely need Navigators because they'd still need space fleets to stop enemy space fleets.

>> No.38572357

>>38572060
if the dark eldar tried to invade the golden throne they would be exterminated immediately.

as a dark eldar player, i can tell you commorrough would be wiped out by a frontal assault by the empire, the only reason it hasnt been is because its in the webway.

so the dark eldar are exterminated out of the setting.

necrons dont use the webway anymore, they only went there to exterminate eldar and old ones before they went to sleep.

>> No.38572359

>>38571702
>>38572116
Then DE, Necrons and even Eldar would begin an assault on terra. All would fail, but you'd basically have a trap-door to the heart of the imperium right under the emperor's ass. Nobody would pass up the opportunity to march a few dispensable soldiers or a rogue nuke into the imperial palace.

After the first few rape attempts on the Emp fail, the Custodes begin a systematic purge of the webway, which is then collapsed by the panicking Eldar/Dark Eldar. Humans are trapped in their section of the Webway, until they begin tunneling through the warp-torn, demon infested parts.

The shocking thing is that they wouldn't need to build webway gates anywhere else, they could just use the ancient eldar webway. But that was the plan TEN THOUSAND YEARS AGO, long before the HH, before eldar started collapsing the webway, before the DE started colonizing it in earnest. And when the Emperor actually started, he had to contend with demons in his palace, because the part of the webway he was touching into was fucking deadly from the get go.

The long and short of it is;

The Navs would be slaughtered by morons jumping to the conclusion that the webway would be a cake-walk, then the now Navigator deprived imperium would die off because the Webway is ten times more brain-fuckery than the warp itself, and ten times more dangerous, because you could walk through one tunnel and age a thousand years before you came out the other, you could end up in the heart of a fully active tomb world, craftworld or in an Archon's fucking toilet bowl, just because you took the wrong turn.

And none of this works because Horus couldn't manage to hold out for a decade or two while the Emperor was otherwise busy.

>> No.38572484

>>38572359
Or because the big E couldn't say to his kids "I'm taking a break to work on a new more reliable form of intersteller travel so we don't have to worry about all the crap we're going through right now. It's retardely difficult and complicated, so you'll need to handle things for a bit, please do not mess around with the warp near Terra, or Bad things could happen."

>> No.38572564

>>38572359
The DE are interested in raiding, not conquest. The Necrons can already assault Terra if they want to - they did land on Mars and got their asses kicked for it.

Also killing all, or even the majority of navagators is silly. They'd probably be opposed to its use in general just because it'd cut into their profit margins. You'd have a long period of rogue ships going into the webway to map it out before it'd even start to be considered normal.

Also the Eldar might hate humanity but even they know enough not to fuck with Terra. Their farseers ought to know it'd be Bad with a capital B to mess with it.

>> No.38572603

>>38572116
>hey lack the capacity for tactics, teamwork and basic empathy compared to the Adeptus Astartes.
So you're telling me that the pre-heresy World Eaters, Iron Warriors and Night Lords, the Iron Hands, Grey Knights, Flesh Tearers, and Marines Malevolent are more empathic than the Custodes?

>> No.38572656

>The emperor's plan, once the human webway was done, was to wipe out all psyker mutants

But that's wrong. The Emperor foresaw the coming of humanity's golden age where the human race would evolve to being fully psychic, similar to the Eldar (i.e. not about to open up a warp portal and let a bloodthirster out just by trying to see who's in the next room) and wanted to ensure humanity survived long enough to make the transition.

>> No.38572719

>>38572603
The Custodes aren't brainwashed into being team players. They're demi-primarchs designed to fight as individuals and work like the Imperium's special forces.

They're superior to Space Marines in every respect but they fight as individuals where Space Marines fight as a unit.

So one on one Custodes will wreck space marines every time. Company on Company the Space Marines can equal or best them because of their superior teamwork.

Of course the Custodes work best doing black ops anyway. It's like an army of Solid Snakes vs an army of Elite Soldiers. The Snakes can't destroy the whole enemy in a straight fight, but if they're IN a straight fight they dun fucked up.

>> No.38572770

>>38572719
So someone is better than the GKs?

>> No.38572775

>>38572484
The fact that the Emperor didn't consider the idea that the chaos gods wouldn't try to coerce his Primarchs to betray him was pretty pants on head retarded. I mean really what? They were just gonna fling them to the far corners of the galaxy, let him collect them, then hang their collective boots up and say "were done here."

way to destroy humanity with your arrogance dumb ass.

>> No.38572820

>>38572357
>dark eldar player
>doesn't realize how massive commorragh is
>doesn't realize that the webway is still a labyrinthine maze full of dangers and even the Eldar have no idea where everything is
>thinks Imperium can just march regiments of troops to the inner palace and into the webway just like that
>doesn't know the flying rhinos were made specifically to navigate the webway
>thinks they still got enough of them around
>thinks Imperium could even fight properly in the webway without heavy units
>probably thinks they can squeeze a ship through that gate

For what reason?

>necrons dont use the webway anymore, they only went there to exterminate eldar and old ones before they went to sleep.

So, what do they use now, because last I checked they were fucked without the webway.

>> No.38572856

>>38572770
Yes and no. They're not psykers.

Gray Knights are all uber-pure space marines that are all psykers and have the best stuff.

The Adeptus Custodes are special forces designed to work alone deep in hostile territory. They keep the politics on Terra in line - that's most of what they've done since the Emperor was put on the Throne.

Supposedly they come out about equal. They're designed for very, VERY different tasks though.

>> No.38572912

>>38572820
one space marine chapter destroyed 1/12 of the entire city.

>> No.38572929

>>38572856
So who would win? Let's say that a Custode and GK had a sparing match. Who would win in a fair fight?

>> No.38573048

>>38572564
>they did land on Mars and got their asses kicked for it.

That was like a few ships and they bypassed all Solar's defenses and were only stopped because they slowed down to land.

If it was a full fleet, then Terra or Mars would be in trouble.

Also there is another thing, The World Engine was making its way to Terra to awaken the Dragon from its slumber. Had it not been stopped, it most likely would have completed its mission.

>> No.38573098

>>38572912
wasnt that before the commorragh retcon

>> No.38573102

>>38572357
>necrons dont use the webway anymore, they only went there to exterminate eldar and old ones before they went to sleep.

They use the Webway as their primary method of travel.

It's that or near-light interia-less drives.

>> No.38573132

>>38572929
I don't know. In one of the books a Primarch offered to spar with one of the Custodes, who thought of it as, "I don't like my chances." On the other hand he didn't count out the possibility of winning, he just didn't think it was worth the risk. Said Primarch was Dorn.

Also Lorgar was pretty awed at their combat prowess when he first saw them fight but noticed their particular weakness which he later used to kill his bodyguards. The toughness of those Custodes surprised even him, though.

No primarchs interacted with Grey Knights, however, so it isn't easy to compare them.

Probably the best comparison is between them when they fought Space Marines. However my knowledge isn't full enough to compare them all that well.

Basically the Grey Knights almost always win against Space Marines, as do Custodes. Chapter Master level and above can kill them, but not easily.

The Grey Knights lose a lot of their advantages against the Custodes because the Custodes aren't chaos aligned, but have an advantage because they are psykers.

Frankly it reminds me of the fight between Captain America and Batman in that one crossover comic. They're stupidly easily matched. One can evade the other but the other are stronger.

>> No.38573189

>>38573132
I want to put my money on the Grey Knight but maybe we say it ends in a draw. And Cap and Batman fought each other? Now I'm interested.

>> No.38573248

>>38573189
The way I recall, Cap can outlast Bats and wear him down, but that's only if Bats doesn't bail mid-fight and use hit and run tactics.

>> No.38573277

>>38573248
I want to read this comic now.

>> No.38573348

>>38573189
Several times, though they've only actually fought going all out once. They decide in the end that they're too evenly matched for either one to win and declare a truce.

>>38573248
True, and that's how the fights generally go. Captain America is slightly physically superior, but Batman is slightly better trained. Cap can outlast Batman in a straight fight, but Batman can evade and use hit-and-run tactics long enough to even things out again.

It's a good equivalent to the Grey Knight vs Custodes fight, with the Custodes as Batman and Grey Knight as Captain America.

Though now I want to see a Grey Knight and Custodes vs Batman and Captain America.

>> No.38573378

>>38573348
Such a fight would tear a hole in the fabric of reality.

>> No.38573428

>>38573378
The crossovers had a few funny moments as well.

>> No.38573482

>>38573428
I saw the first two panels before. It's nice to know that the Joker will always be an American in his heart.

>> No.38573561

>>38572719
better stats, but shit equipment it is actually a close fight if you really want to run a battle using the ancient rules from when they were statted.

>> No.38573644

>>38573561
The Custodes?

>> No.38573729

The most entertaining matchup would probably involve two specific individuals.

Constantin Valdor vs. Kaldor Draigo.

>> No.38573847

>>38573644
No armor and armed with a lasgun

>> No.38573907

>>38573847
But the halberds have a bolter built on them.

>> No.38573999

in all their glory...

>> No.38574081

>>38573999
They had stats?

>> No.38574114

>>38574081
>using the ancient rules from when they were statted.

That is what I said.

>> No.38574136

>>38574114

>> No.38574152

>>38574114
My bad. When was this? Rogue Trader, or second edition?

>> No.38574157

Also, there is another major difference between the Custodes and the Gray Knights.

Gray Knights are essentially perfected space marines, given extra protections against and specialized against chaos. They still use the "mass production" model that Space Marines do, but they have much higher standards concerning that and are all psykers.

Adeptus Custodes are all totally custom made. Every last one has their enhancements specifically tailored to them; they don't use geneseed like the Space Marines do. This also means that their enhancements are much, much better. A custodes is basically a primarch without having a mini-warp storm inside them to make them demigods. There seems to be a fair amount of similarity in the production process.

So basically yeah. Custodes are not psykers but have better statlines than Gray Knights would. They're not good in groups, but are awesome at sneaky underhandedness and one-on-one fights.

If there's any indication as to how well they'd do against the Grey Knights it's probably the battle on Prospero where they thrashed a superior number of Thousand Sons and killed three of the strongest Psykers in history, though they did so alongside the Space Wolves and - quite tellingly - brought the Sisters of Silence with them.

The counter to this is of course when the Word Bearers under Lorgar managed to kill some they got the drop on.

Custodes are optimized super-powered specialized pre-release space marines. Grey Knights are perfected chaos-fighting specialized space marines that are all psykers.

>> No.38574176

>>38574152
Looks like Rogue Trader since these AC's were using leather armor.

>> No.38574221

>>38574176
That still is canon since it hasn't been retconned?
>>38574157
Thanks, Anon. You're a help.

>> No.38574223

>>38574136
Behold!

>> No.38574243

>>38572820

Necrons use phase space.

It's why their ships are so goddamn fast compared to everything else in the setting.

>> No.38574399

>>38574221
Even if it is it seems to only be true within the confines of the Imperial Palace. Outside of it they use power armor of incredible blingyness.

Apparently they really liked jetbikes and their favored weapon was the Guardian Spear, a combo power weapon/bolter. They seem to be a lot like Grey Knights Nemesis Force Weapons but since they're not psykers they'd have less oomph.

I strongly suspect that a lot of the way the Grey Knights ended up was based on the Custodes.

>> No.38574429

>>38574399
They also had a grav-Rhino.

>> No.38574430

>>38572775
He probably did not predict the genre shift from NobleDark to GrimDerp.

>> No.38574457

>>38572116
Jesus christ you're so wrong it hurts to read.

>> No.38574542

>>38572116
The Emperor intended for the humanity to become a psychic race. So he had no intention of wiping out the psykers.

>> No.38574578

>>38574542
He didn't think humanity was read though which is why he was unsure about the Librarian program.

>> No.38575413

>>38574399
too bad jetbikes are no longer existant in Imperial space. other than the one the dark angels have.

>>38574429
which they never use

>> No.38575472

>>38575413
They did use it in the Webway construction. And it is hinted that the DAs have more than one jetbike.

>> No.38575537

>>38575472
It's also hinted in that same fluff that they might not have the only jetbikes since their new fluff specifically says they have the only MK XIV Bullock Pattern Jetbike

>> No.38575579

>>38575537
What could they be hiding? Quick, we must name some heresy and Great Crusade relics! Doesn't the Rock have relic factories? Tatros pattern terminator armor?

>> No.38577141

>>38573482
Unfortunately his gang got killed as you can see on the background. Morons just stood there with their mouths open.

Meanwhile it turned out that Joker and Red skull are immune to each others poison gas (because they already were immune to their own gas and the two gasses are extremely similar.)

>> No.38577213

>>38577141
I recall the Joker being immune to poison from somewhere. Or is it due to his plot immunity. What's that trope called?

>> No.38577310

>>38572912
No they didn't.
The Salamanders crashed the palace district of the old noble houses that ruled Commoragh back then, and only succeeded in doing so because Vect arranged the whole situation to occur the way it did.
The muhreens took shittons of losses, and only managed to flee because they were allowed to, and in practice, the only thing that happened in Commoragh was a change in leadership.

>> No.38578612

>>38577310
And because Vects guys, erm, accidentally missed the marines and unfortunatly some ricochet managed to find their way into allied dark eldar.

However this was just a few marine ships, if the empire brought their might to bear on Commoragh it is finishsed (think millions upon millions of soldiers ) Dark eldar fight by attacking and withdrawing, there would not be a place to withdtraw to and once they hit the weapon factories it will be over. (Not to mention a mass slave revolt)

>> No.38579477

Some of my info may be wrong since we are at 40k cannon ver 47.3
>>38574542
>Emperor intended for the humanity to become a psychic race.
Humans were naturally becoming psychic as it's next step of evolution of the species, the Emperor was on a plain to guide it so chaos wouldn't have an entrance thru it.
>>38575413
>too bad jetbikes are no longer existant in Imperial space.
When 2nd edition came out GW wanted each army to have it's own special "thing" Jetbikes went to Eldar only, Dreadnoughts went to SM only, ect.

I miss the pre HH book cannon when the golden throne was just a life support system that got build under the direction of the Emperor after Horus's death. Not the webway thing.

>> No.38579514

>>38577310
>The muhreens took shittons of losses

So they lost a dozen marines compared to the thousands of Dark Eldar dead?

>> No.38580443

>>38574243
They brought them back in 7e codex?

>> No.38580462

>>38571702
Oh my, she is adorable.

>> No.38580486

>>38572912
>1/12
>of a city that has multiple stars to provide light and power

And do take into consideration this was a Marine force with ships and shit. You can't fit a cruiser through the webway gate on Terra, thus you're limited to stuff that can fit through. And that's assuming the webway doesn't have the same problem as with Necrons, where the gate on Terra is identified as a forceful entrance and would be forced close in time, meaning the forces can't linger very long in there.

If the Necrons haven't been able to find and exterminate Commorragh, I have hard time figuring out how the Imperium's gonna do it just like that.

>> No.38580515

>>38577213
Plot armor. You are thinking of plot armor

>> No.38580528

>>38580515
I was thinking Joker Immunity. That's it.

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