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[ERROR] No.38376218 [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

This is not really a new argument by any means.
But I HATE Centurions.
Probably for the same reasons most people hate them.
> Why do we NEED a step between Terminators and Dreadnaughts?
> (Just like Dreadknights) Why is there power armor INSIDE of more power armor.
> Fluff-wise now the Veteran First Companies in Terminators are outclassed?

However. I have been thinking about this a lot. There are a lot of things wrong with them. But there are a few cool esthetic parts that taken away from them could compliment other units visually.

Terminator armor. One of my favorite things EVER. But the Centurion has a few visually would compliment them. Specifically the arms, legs, and weird... "pipe-collar?"
To me the Terminator's arms and legs don't stand out too much from their standard power armor cousins.
The Centurion's build of the arms with the cables running down and the index finger, thumb, and mitten seem much more suited for the description of Terminators that is given.
Similarly; the three toes on the more squared legs with the piston at a 45-degree angle of the feet are pretty cool looking.
The pipe-collar... thing would just add more detail around the collar of the Terminator armor.
I'm just proposing sort of a discussion here. about the visuals I'm throwing out here.
I don't want this as a "But I'd have to rebuy all my Termies" (Although to be fair if it was how I imagined it, I would)
Maybe we could get someone with some art talent to draw up what I'm talking about?
What do you all think?
Also - why do Centurions get the coolest damn MK VII helmet there is?

>> No.38376279

Centurion is a mobile gun platform. I would actually like it more if it looked even more like a forklift with guns strapped to it.

>> No.38376327

I don't even particularly like the weird guns or missles on the side on the side of the chest.
I love the Terminator's helmet, chest-piece, and shoulders though. I would never want to lose those.

>> No.38376343

>> Why do we NEED a step between Terminators and Dreadnaughts?

Because Dreads are rare and limited to few vets, kept most of the time in stasis, etc. And terminator armour, outside of officers, is for 1st company vets. Not every detachment is sporting 1st company vets.

>> (Just like Dreadknights) Why is there power armor INSIDE of more power armor.

Same reason Jump Packs and Bikers got power armour. Don't think of it as a suit of armour, think of it as a walker or a weapon harness you strap yourself into for that additional mobile firepower.

>> Fluff-wise now the Veteran First Companies in Terminators are outclassed?

Fluffwise terminator armour is god tier, able to get stepped on by a titan, etc.

>> No.38376476

I'm not into SM fluff but aren't centurions basically just shitty walkers filled with guns to compensate for dreads and termites being rare and super-advanced gizmos?

>> No.38376480

There isn't a good reason within the world for their design. They were designed because Games Workshop wanted another Space Marine kit to sell.

That simple.

>> No.38376498

Basically this. Instead of walker it should be a vehicle.

>> No.38376502

What would centurion armor/weapon stats for the 40k rpgs be and when do you think FFG will release official stats for the stuff be? In Deathwatch 2e?

>> No.38376530

>>Fluffwise terminator armour is god tier

>When fighting against the humans attempting raids in the Perdus Rift, a lone Sniper Drone Team claimed an entire Terminator squad - each member shot directly through the armoured eye lenses of their helmets.

-Tau codex (Sniper Drone entry)

Pew pew pew

>> No.38376540

I would really like to see someone draw that.
I would have bought ALL the kits if they put the mention changes on the Terminators.

>> No.38376583

And human civilians destroyed Eldar crafts by throwing rocks at them.

>> No.38376604

CS Goto =/= Actual lore from the codex.

>> No.38376610


They're used by Assault and Devastator squad Marines in a similar fashion as Assault squads use jump packs and bikes. They're just pieces of equipment that you can take to the battlefield to provide extra firepower and shit when needed.

I don't hate the concept, but the models are a bit shite. The tit missiles are terrible, the plates on the legs are silly and the arms should have been redone. Like have the Marine's arms stick out the sides and have them hold controls or something.

Wasn't the original Dreadknight something like this? I remember some designers talk mentioning that the original was more like a suit on top of a suit, and the devs just went "make it bigger".

>> No.38376659

One Ratling sniper threw and entire Tau cadre into disarray.

>> No.38376708

Yep, he shot an Ethereal.

>> No.38376727

I think it was a just a convoy.

>> No.38376764


>> No.38376938

>793.M40 The Vengeance of the Dead

>>During one of the terrifying events the Dark Eldar call their Carnivals of Pain, a Coven of Haemonculi unleashes a carefully coded bio-toxin upon the hive world of Orbulac. The toxin dissolves human flesh whilst leaving Eldar intact, and the Haemonculi take to the spires of Hive Primus with high-powered scrying devices in order to appreciate the grotesquerie they have brought into being. The Salamanders hear of the vile fate that has befallen Orbulac and send in a Strike Cruiser to cut out the cancer that has taken root in the armoured eyries of the hive. Stormraven Gunships deliver a Siegebreaker Cohort to the upper levels, each warrior’s rebreather replaced by internal air sources. One by one, the warsuited battle-brothers suffer wounds during the resultant fighting, their power armour split or dissolved by the arcane weapons of the Haemonculi. As the flesh-eating toxin worms its way into their flesh, the Salamanders die fighting. Though the warsuits, and even the power armour inside are empty of anything but noisome liquids, the angered machine spirits that lurk in each warsuit fight on. The last two operative warsuits bore holes into the Haemonculi’s lair and slowly fall dormant, but not before emptying their ammunition caches and shredding the macabre scientists in a storm of explosive bolts.

Does terminator armor have sentient machine spirits?

>> No.38377008


That's fucking great. The little drone that could.

>> No.38377070

1. To sell a kit a high price kit with less models.
2. So that if the pilot has to disembark the dreadknight/centurion they are still in armor.
3. The most experienced are still the most experienced. Piloting something doesn't change that. 1st company due to being the elite has to be able to handle any job. Devestators and assault marines piloting centurions in combat are dedicated specialists. (Though vets still learn how to pilot a centurion during vehicle training)

I prefer mark VII salamanders helmets myself but that's my opinion.

>> No.38377183

I actually like the models a lot.

Rules-wise, grav centurions are pretty good, and the 2nd place list in the LVO had a squad of them.

So i guess what i'm trying to say is fuck you.

>> No.38377230


>Like have the Marine's arms stick out the sides and have them hold controls or something.

Really no point for this when the suits are interfaced with the Black Carapace.

>> No.38377339

It's specifically stated that it does not hook up to the black carapace (especially since the Marine's still in his armour). Why they need the legs to be in the suits legs we don't know.

I'm just saying it would look better, because the idea of the Marine just sitting there with his arms crossed is a bit weird. He can still use his mind-machine interface, but he can also use his arms for some multi-tasking while he's at it.

If nothing else, have 4 arms, the Marine's and the suits, independent of one another. This way the Marine can operate stiff more suited for regular hands, like key pads, etc., while the suit arms can just carry huge guns (and doesn't need hands on them).

>> No.38377423

No, but machine spirits are very much like animals. If they're pissed off, they're gonna fight back, just not with the same degree of tactical acumen that a human could. The more complex the machine and more powerful the machine spirit, the more complex actions they're capable of taking on their own.

>> No.38377491


You need to make them awesome like this.

>> No.38377504

Obviously a reference to the best steam powered robot of all time.

>> No.38377571

>awesome like this
>taking away their main purpose.
What does abominations actually are for? The marine is still carrying the gun by himself.

>> No.38377660

I think Centurions with the outer plating on the leg removed and using normal Mk. VII helmets look pretty cool. Without the plating you can see that the legs do actually have quite a wide range of motion at the hip, but they look incredibly stiff and awkward with the plates on. I think replacing them with the ones that you can put on Terminator's crotches might work, but I'm not sure.

>> No.38377835

>super think ten thousand years armor made from magic plate blessed a thousand times
>gets pierced by a ork with a spear or one genestealer claw

What's the fucking point?

>> No.38377997

Im not that guy, but its pretty obvious. Marines can carry those guns, they cant shoot on the move. Now they have powerlegs so they can shoot and move. Duh.

>> No.38378110

And still carry them awkwardly as shit.

>> No.38378263

Is no one going to draw this?!

>> No.38378402

I think its one of the Horus Heresy novels mentions that one of the greatest heroes of (which ever legion it was) was killed in battle on medieval level planet by getting a spear to the neck.
Every armor has its weak points.

>> No.38378491

>Millions of years of evolution
>Falls over dead from brain embolism

What's the fucking point?

>> No.38378516

Take it to the drawthread if you think it's worth the time.

>> No.38378620 [DELETED] 


>> No.38378666

>> No.38378687

>or one genestealer claw
You know there was a time when Genestealers didn't have rending. They just ignored all armor saves instead.

Stealer claws are as deadly as a fucking power weapon.

>> No.38378787

>going up against the most dangerous organism in the galaxy
>"hurr why am they die"
Because it makes the bug hunt worthwhile, numbnuts.

>> No.38378848

I miss the 4+ save mutation.

>> No.38379759

Machine spirits are just convoluted and primitive AI though, right?

>> No.38380697

Machine spirits can be anything from absolutely_nothing.tif to full on AI.

The dogged mysticism of 40k's technology allows for things to be vague as fuck. Any attempt to strictly codify it is misleading.

>> No.38382208

My headcanon was that they use(d) animal brain parts, like they do with servitors to process certain things in a manner an AI would, because the brain is largely feral and can't understand things like chaos, thus it's not susceptible to chaos like a something with a real intelligence.

>> No.38382230

I like them. Their models and the rules. If this thread is still alive when I get home tonight I'll dump what I got in my 'awesome centurion conversions' folder.

>> No.38382638

The suits would have looked better as the original concepts: Techmarinesque addons to the power amour with servo harnesses and other shits helping to deliver more firepower

>> No.38383001


Your head canon is wrong and you can fuck off with it.

Machine spirits are simply AIs that don't have motivators. They can only preform their functions, they have no inherent or personal will so they cannot betray their operators. They are just not-self aware AIs. Real any of the HH novels that deal with the mechanicus.

>> No.38383075

How about that land rider that continued to fight after its crew died?

>> No.38383116


It's function is "preform the duties of a land raider". It did so. It still can't wage a war even if it can fight a battle.

>> No.38383154



>> No.38383746

You dare mock Rynn's Might?

Also I'm pretty sure there's a cutaway of the Land Raider which shows that its Machine Spirit is a servitor style cyberized brain.

>> No.38385629

Gears of war, 40k edition.

>> No.38385865

>> No.38385891


>> No.38385920


>> No.38385951


>> No.38385983


>> No.38386005


>> No.38386040


>> No.38386058


>> No.38388638


It's possible, could also be that every machine at least as a certain degree of animism to it.

I don't think it's as simple as AI.

>> No.38392086

some always post these fucking models, and they STILL look fucking dumb as all hell

>> No.38392188


>> No.38392686

This, but with leg armour like this >>38386040

I hope FW gives us updated rules on the Hades soon. Modified Centurion with drills and multi-meltas on the torso would make a nice breaching unit, especially now that the Hades is considered infantry.

>> No.38393043

Some anon's obliterator conversion from a wip thread. I think it's pretty banging.

>> No.38393088

hahaha. 40k is one big pissing contest. If one race loses it's only because of the "TACTICAL ACUMEN" of the other race, not because that race has any inherent weakness.

>> No.38393350

Are you being wilfully ignorant?

Tau fail at close combat, Eldar at attrition, Deldar at prolonged engagements, IG/AM at rapid deployment, SM at large scale, list goes on.

>> No.38393460

>Eldar at attrition
what is wave serpents? eldar can do everything other factions can do, except cheesier and more obnoxiously.

>> No.38395498

Tau exist solely to be 'aw man so advance' wank.

No one that plays tau plays them because riveting lore.

>> No.38397397

> Squat_Centurions.png

>> No.38397663

He is referring to lore buddy.

>> No.38398214

>Why do wee need a step between termies and Dreads
Because Dreads aren't suitable for every task and Centurions aren't limited to First Company like Termies are. If you read the fluff you'd know this.
>Power armour inside power armour
Because it's supposed to be a reference to Alien. It's a powered exosuit, more akin to a weapons platform.
>Now Vet's are outclassed

You're just retarded.

>> No.38402461

Now if only Termies weren't a waste of points and Assault Centurions could make it into melee.

>> No.38402621


Centurions were needed from a rules standpoint but I hate the model.

When you see the tournament winning 1850 lists, they can have an elite build like Tau only running some Broadsides Riptides and 9 Crisis Suits.

Marine elite builds suck DICK. Try running that many models as Terminators, you won't have any firepower. But the most recent 2nd place had 40 scouts and 3 Centurions, 2 TFCs, and that was all the firepower he needed.

Adding 3-6 Centurions to a marine army lets them match xenos firepower without having to buy 50+ Devastators, which they can't afford points-wise anyways.

The only other alternative would be to have grav bikes because grav puts out so many shots, and even then you're still looking at 15-20 bikes.

>> No.38404611

>Try running that many models as Terminators, you won't have any firepower.

Terminator firepower is a complete joke, especially when you look at how much better xenos deepstriking elites are.

Then again this is in keeping with thematic army traits - with the marine trait being "armored thugs who don't run away while they die" as opposed to the much superior traits of "high tech firepower" and "super lethal mobile specialists" of Tau and Eldar.

>> No.38405280

If only two .75 caliber automatic rocket launchers would translate better to 40k rules. But it doesn't.

Give terminators 2 HW per 5 and I'm sure their usefulness will increase. Also, more HW options (like multi-meltas and shit), and sergeants access to wargear. And bring back mixed terminator squads (3e) and terminator command squads (4e).

I'm sure 5 hammernators guarding 4 HW terminators and a combi-weapon sergeant would make things more interesting.

>> No.38405402

They suffer from being multi-role units in a game which encourages specialization.

>> No.38405459

Terminators and Tactical Squads are both terrible for that reason.

>> No.38405502

Hey, being multi-role is not wrong, as long as you can pull it off and not cost a billion points. But then you're OP bullshit and everyone either spams you or hates you.

>> No.38405757

basic terminators could definitely see a point decrease though, being good at shooting and assault isn't worth as much as being really good at one or the other

>> No.38405945

They would likely be similar to terminator armor, high armor, low mobility, with more options for weaponry.
Sad thing is that terminator armor in the rpgs is sorta crap, because skirting armor is easy with the high ap in the game, the lack of dodge is lethal, and the bonuses to strength isn't enough to offset the lack of weapon options.

>> No.38406161

There is a reason the IW siege terminators are great, as they actually have the firepower to justify being an elite shooty unit, while still being able to scrap if need be.
Storm bolters and a single heavy weapon isn't good enough.

>> No.38407695


Conscripts roles:

- Cheap horde
- Tarpit
- Bubblewrap
- Massed fire
- Objective holders
- Impassible terrain

Wraith roles:

- Fast unit
- Anvil
- Counter-assault
- Assault

Space marine roles:

- Sucking
- Being overpriced
- Dying to AP
- Jack of sucking dicks
- Master of anal and losing games
- Subterfuge specialists, because you will never see them even in their own army lists

>> No.38407790

Tacticals should get 1 special for free with the option to buy a second for regular price, and have free Rhino/Drop Pod

>> No.38407843

>Space marine roles:

Sternguard Veteran - 200 years of constant training and warfare, can't even shoot as effectively as an Imperial Guard Veteran acting under orders, can't coordinate fire as well as a Tau.

>> No.38407848

My personal favorite idea for jazzing up spess mehrenes is generalizing the sternguard schtick, so they're all about selecting different ammo.

>> No.38407953


"Okay Private Fuckface, our forge ship's best artisans spent years crafting this Hellfire Bolt. I want YOU to use it to take down that enemy Hive Tyrant, is that understood?"

"Brother-Sergeant, I missed!"

>> No.38407956

Only IG has radios. Only Imperium has field medics and technicians. Only eldar have mastered "shoots lots and lots at the enemy and maybe some of our shots get through".

>> No.38407980

hmmghgj this is so googh

>> No.38407988

You clearly don't remember when vets were a tactical squad with 2 attacks.

>> No.38408122

One would presumably think that an entire world's resources, or sometimes more than one, could reliably produce enough ammo for 1000 guys, especially considering they clearly don't carry -that- much.

Also, you can always have higher tier spess mehrenes having higher tier ammo. 30k has lots of ideas for new kinds of ammoa s well that aren't necessarily on par with sternguard.

>> No.38408240

I don't see your point. I'm just saying a variety of ammo would do well to enhance their generalist schtick,

>> No.38408319

>You clearly don't remember when vets were a tactical squad with 2 attacks.

Didn't they have BS/WS 5?

>> No.38408390

How good would a bolter with Fleshbane or Armorbane be? What other traits could we slap on a belter due to different ammo types?

>> No.38408459

>armorbane bolter
>penetrate land raiders

Nnnope. Maybe higher Ld., but other than that they were just a tactical squad with 2 attacks and nothing more. Even command squads were fancier with 2 heavy weapons.

>> No.38408476



Eldar and Necrons get godly abilities on a 6 and they cost less points than bolter marines.

>> No.38408549

What if Centurion with 2 TL Assault Cannons and a Skyfire/Interceptor option so Space Marines have an anti-air option that isn't either a flier or poop?

>> No.38408656

Or you could just make the anti air rhino's not poop

>> No.38408741

Just make the AA rhinos be able to fire at ground targets without penalties.

>> No.38408749


They won't give a Centurion four assault cannon barrels. It's going to be one assault cannon on each arm to make 1 TL AsC. And it's going to suck dick just like the 1 TLLC Centurions do.

>> No.38408750

That exists. Hellfire Rounds.

You have access to combi meltas for a reason.

Anyway, idea for another special issue ammo

>Gellar Bolts
S4 AP5, Psybane*, 18" Rapid Fire
Psybane: Gellar Bolts use a miniscule, momentary version of a Gellar Field Generator to momentarily sever the connection between the Materium and The Immaterium. Units with the Psyker, Brotherhood of Psykers/Sorcerors, or Demon special rules count as moving through Difficult Terrain the they're after they're hit by Gellar Bolts. If they are already moving through difficult terrain, it counts as Dangerous as well.

>> No.38408772


I'd auto-take 3 Stalkers if they could shoot at ground. GW needs to stop this bullshit of being so hesitant about making AA able to shoot at ground, especially with the 7E Interceptor rape-nerf, then go and do stupid shit like make godly flyers.

>> No.38408892

>Gellar Bolts
Hear me out.
What if
>Whenever a psyker is wounded by Gellar bolts, they immediately make a Perils of the Warp roll.

>The player controlling the Psyker can nullify this effect, but the Psyker doing so generates no Warp Charge until the end of your next turn.

>> No.38408894

Didn't think it would be that powerful, don't have book handy and only remembered the name, nor what it does other that what the name implies.
As a suggestion for more AA power, have the rocket launcher come with AA rockets free, as a cheap way to get AA that can still be used against other things

>> No.38408952

I really think that AA rockets need a fundamental change. S7 is not worth it, AP4 means it doesn't penetrate the defenses of any MC's, and it's an expensive upgrade on the worst heavy weapon option possible.

>> No.38408985

Do you think they'd be balanced if they could take 2 Assault Cannons for 10pts more each than the Las?

>> No.38409186

>Gellar Bolts

Why not just psyk-out bolts? Though seeing that the grenades are already heavily controlled, getting bolts out there is probably not very likely.

>Gellar field
>cause Perils of the Warp

Well that don't make any sense.

>> No.38411161

The Condemnor Boltgun already exists. I wanted to make it use a distinct mechanic.

>> No.38413470

>40k can't into set allowance of a given unit/model
>imagine how badly spam would die if you could only take 1-2 of a given thing

Not Highlander though, only one of each besides Troops is really stupid and damning for a number of armies. A hard cap of 2 of X is a pretty good average though. Gives you numerical advantage without it being no-brainer spam shit.

Of course it would also help if they appropriately priced everything in addition to having strictly allowances, rather than throwing their arms in the air and saying 'fuck it'. Multiple formation armies and Unbound are goddamn cancer.

>> No.38413730

>Multiple formation armies and Unbound are goddamn cancer.

Have you ever actually played against either of these?

The two times I've run against unbound, it was somebody running a fluffy First Company Marines list with no troops but two squads each of Sternguard, Vanguard, and Terminators, and somebody else who was running a Demon Engine army of Chaos Marines with loads of Forgefiends and Defilers.

Meanwhile, I run a multiple formation army with the Haemonculi Covens dex. A few scalpel squadrons, a Grotesquerie, and the Dark Artisan formation is always good. Plus I'm adding Harlequins.

>> No.38413818


> Multiple formation armies and Unbound are goddamn cancer.

And regular bound armies are supposed to be paragons by comparison ?

>> No.38413909


I think the ability to take multiple detachments and formations are one of the best parts of 7th Edition.

>> No.38413938

He probably runs serpent spam and doesn't like that there are people who don't have to pay taxes on shitty troops.

>> No.38413939


So what, faggot? That's like saying you don't play against Wave Serpent spam so Eldar aren't cancer.

Protip: They fucking are.


Yes, bound bullshit is by far more balanced than unbound bullshit. Even if it's not balanced at all.

Unbound by its inherent nature is able to do more degenerate things than armies that have restrictions placed on them. THIS IS BASIC FUCKING LOGIC.

>> No.38413987

>Yes, bound bullshit is by far more balanced than unbound bullshit. Even if it's not balanced at all.
Anon thinks 0 is more than 0.

More at 11.

>> No.38415508

Rule of cool, you fool!

>> No.38416454

But it doesn't even look cool, it looks goofy. Reminds me of the Firefall assault class, which i never cared for.

>> No.38416785



Why did you not listen to me when I tried to warn you?


>> No.38417313

I hope he got a medal.

>> No.38418459


Negative and imaginary numbers are less than zero.


>> No.38418532

but how can balancing be negative, if 'unbalanced' is zero? If unbound is -2 blanced, do you have to play 3 balanced games until you can ahve a real balanced game again? Then unbound lists would be real cancer, because the more you play them the more unbalanced every other game you play gets.

>> No.38418840

I'm just pissed the Centurions didn't end up like based Jes Godwin's concept art.

More of a techmarine heavy support squad style thing.

>> No.38418862


>> No.38418873

>imaginary numbers are less than zero
Did you fail algebra 2, anon?

>> No.38418874


>> No.38418882


>> No.38418883

>i<0 (or j<0 if you're homosex)

>> No.38418903

These just look like a normal marine with bigger guns or shoulder mounts.

>> No.38418923

that's just a skinny terminator.

>> No.38418925

>These just look like a normal marine with bigger guns or shoulder mounts.
You say that like it's a problem...

>> No.38418936

>You say that like it's a problem...
Because it doesn't differentiate them at all from any other devastator

>> No.38418939

It is, there's nothing to distinguish them from Devastators.

>> No.38418981

Bigger guns and shoulder mounts.

>> No.38419006

You know, if you like that look you can just take some normal SM's and slap some rockets on their shoulders and give them under-slung cannons. It wouldn't even be difficult. And the guns in the concept art don't look any bigger than what they're holding in (pic related).

>> No.38419048

Is being part of the inner circle mandatory for dark angel centurions? The deathwing is comprised of like 90% terminators as it is.

>> No.38419119

Dark Angels don't have Cents (for now). I'd be more inclined to think though that they'd be 9th company or part of the armoury. I don't see them being part of the Deathwing. They're already specialised as is.

also, without trying to sound to much like a grognard, Deathwing are 100% termies.

>> No.38419123

Why don't they use terminator armour for the inner suit inside of centurions instead of power armour, so they can have a 2+ whilst having a 2+?

>> No.38419161

According to the fluff, no, as they would likely pull the pilots from the assault and devastator squads like the do in the SM vanilla codex. According to the fluff there, centurions suits lack the versatility veterans require. Also, the Deathwing is made up entirely of terminator squads.

>> No.38419222

Cuz terminator suits are for the elite few, whereas centurion is more of grunt work.

>> No.38419239

Centurion piloting can't be done by anyone, but it's not an elite position.

>> No.38419272

Well, it can be done by people that haven't graduated to tacticool yet, is the point.

>> No.38419296

I would be totally cool with centurions if they were a imperial guard or even inquisitorial tool, as a form of armor against hostile environments, being a cheap and clunky substitute of a true power armour.

Im just so tired of space marines getting every new idea of GW, meanwhile the IG or the CSM get fucking nothing. Hell, even the Battle Sister could get this and have more sense, like their version of terminatour armor. In Space Marines is just redundant and makes terminator armor a joke.

>> No.38419317

IG get forgeworld support out the anus, and their last codex gave them best anti-infantry artillery in the game by far. CSM got a bunch of dinobots last codex and will probably get something in their next one.

>> No.38419324

It wouldn't make sense to give nice things to the SoB. IG already have guns galore. As far as CSM, it struck me as a counterpoint to obliterators. Are obliterators outclassed by these guys anyway?

>> No.38419368

>IG have the most kits out of fucking everyone and get the most FW support
>M-Muh IG

Guardfags are the worse.

>> No.38419393

I am out of date on the current 40k rules but it's always been a solid rule of thumb to say "yes".

The people who play space marines will leave the game before playing with a nerfed codex and the people who play xeno races are more likely to play just to have fun playing.

Kinda like tyranid players always know where to get good weed. Just a rule of thumb thats proved true more often than not.

>> No.38419405

B-but tanks are cool.

>> No.38419424

There is a difference between a Guardsman player and a Guardfag

Guardsman player
>I like tanks and shooting lots of shots.


>> No.38419440

Stoners play CSM, nids are just played by women and if they know a dealer it's because their BF plays CSM.

>> No.38419445

You seem to be implying space marines are even remotely top notch. They're not.

If you're curious what the best point for point unit in the game is, its probably the kroot, followed by various other fodder types (though conscripts are actually less point efficient than normal IG, they're more of a roadblock type). Space marines have very little to justify their cost.

As far as I can tell, obliterators and devastator centurions are very different units. One deep strikes wherever with whatever weapon that is needed, one is notable mainly for its heavy duty grav amps.

Really, xeno enthusiasts have no right to ever bitch about space marines in terms of power level, its totally nonsensical.

>> No.38419511

Stoner here, and I play Orks and SM's, but don't let that stop you from generalizing.

>> No.38419583

That made me legitimately laugh.

>> No.38419608


Stoner here, blazing legally, playing dem loyal spess

Pic related, your comment.

>> No.38420301

>complains about SM, when SM have always had middle of the road dexes at best in EVERY EDITION OF 40K EVER
>Xenos, Eldar in particular, however, are top tier in EVERY EDITION EXCEPT 5TH (where it was a toss up between IG, Crons, and GKs)
>talks about xeno players having fun to play
Replace "xenos" with "orks" and you may have had a goddamn point, instead of being a little faggot.

>> No.38420425

>Space Marines
>Whose identity can essnetially be boiled down to their armour
>Not getting the new armour

>> No.38420951

Judging by everyone saying tac marines suck because they are generalist, Eldar are a top tier army due to being an army of specialist in a system that rewards that and punishes generalist. Not helping matters is the sorry state of assault, not having to spend points on melee specialist to not get crushed when the enemy gets close only helps them TAC.

>> No.38421486


>> No.38421505


>> No.38421521


>> No.38421527


>> No.38421540

Those concepts were for Devastator specialists. It's right in the corner of the second image.

Centurions are just an evolution of those concepts.

>> No.38421543

That's cool, though looks a little too much like tartaros and contemptor.

That's just a techmarine playing around with some assault cannons down at the armoury.

>"say hello to my little friends! pew-pew-pew"

Just big power armour with shoulder mounted lascannon.

That loos like a Marine with a miniature wurfrahmen harness on his shoulders, dual wielding pistols. The dude behind him looks like an old shoulder mounted lascannon marine with a roll bar cage around his head.

>> No.38421577

I find this analysis to be redundant. Might as well say, "assholes who play guard sound like this"

can't we have that thought about every player?

Ork fag
>dude the only reason the emperor is still alive is because the orks think he is hurr durr

ork player
>The green tide comes! dakka dakka!

>> No.38421587


God damn SC2's art direction is hideous.

>> No.38421603

Lascannons and missile launchers are available to regular Marines, and through FW or old its, they come in shoulder mounted versions as well. You're basically making new devastators with FW guns and extra bits.

Where do people get this shit? Centurions are used by Devastator and Assault squads, and those units are the training squads for becoming Tactical Marines.

>> No.38421611

and yet GW has to go there to get their concepts.

>> No.38421627

Why would they? They can just recycle WWI era tanks or shoeboxes for designs.

>> No.38421827

But the Emperor loves the Centurion!

>> No.38421849

Purely mechanical things are described as having Machine Spirits.

And considering the vaguely magical way things work in that setting sometimes, they probably do.

>> No.38421875

>Not able top wage war

I'm going to have to disagree, because it looks like it tried it's hardest to wage war. Pulled off 1d4chan:
>A Land Raider appropriately named Rynn's Might that somehow managed to skillfully pilot itself using only its machine spirit and take out a good chunk of the invading Ork horde, including a warboss, with hellish accurate weapon fire. When it ran out of ammo, it then tried to run over the Orks and when its treads were clogged with bodies and its doors smashed open, it was entered by Lootas seeking to take it after which it vented the reactor and killed them all with hot plasma.. The Crimson Fists were able to recover the machine spirit of "Rynn's Might", and are now trying to find a new vehicle to house the machine spirit.

>> No.38421888

Some Machine Spirits use squishy brain meat instead of computer parts. Not all though.

Of course that doesn't explain how a chainsword can have a Machine Spirit.

>> No.38421931

Some sort of miniature neural system to process inputted commands?

Or maybe they just like polishing it and pretend it has a spirit.

I'm more wondering if bionic replacements can have a machine spirit too.

>> No.38422075

The version I remember had the land raider blow itself up, after luring the warboss in.

Also, don't forget the Emperor's Lightning, which sank into a swamp and spent 18 years slowly driving itself out, stopping to recharge its batteries, etc. When it did get out, it just sent a signal that it's ready for pick-up.

>> No.38422098

Marine bolters interface with their armour, so surely chainswords could as well. And such systems require programming, aka. a machine spirit.

>> No.38422102

Pretty much this. Terminators need a points cut like the GK ones got. They just cost too damn much for the current game.

>> No.38422146

It's not made 100% clear but I'd guess it's a lot like a servitor: they wipe the brain completely and use it as a kind of organic computer system.

I didn't know about the Emperor's Lightning, which one was that?

Chainswords have an on/off switch and an independent power source. They don't need armor integration, the Bolter's "integration" is a camera. That has nothing to do with it needing to have it's "machine spirit" to be appeased so it'll fire properly.

>> No.38422262

>Chainswords have an on/off switch

The fact that they can idle and shit, would indicate there's some throttle. And if you can operate it via a neural link through your armour, is better than fiddling with a lever on the weapon itself.


Doesn't mean they don't have or can't benefit from one.

>the Bolter's "integration" is a camera

You ever looked at, say, the 3e rulebook schematics of a bolter, because it seems to imply a lot more than just "a camera". Not to forget, have you tried plugging a camera into your PC lately? Because there's a lot more going on there than just simple AV feed into your TV.

>That has nothing to do with it needing to have it's "machine spirit" to be appeased so it'll fire properly.

I know if I don't appease my PC's machine spirit with ritualistic "click the update button" and "perform the ritual heresy scan", not to forget the all important "clear history", the machine spirit will not be happy and shit will start to fuck up.

>> No.38422353

>You ever looked at, say, the 3e rulebook schematics of a bolter, because it seems to imply a lot more than just "a camera". Not to forget, have you tried plugging a camera into your PC lately? Because there's a lot more going on there than just simple AV feed into your TV.

I'd have to dig up the schematic again, but just because there is more going on inside of the OS when it installs a driver to run the thing doesn't mean that there has to be a lot going on on the End User side.

>I know if I don't appease my PC's machine spirit with ritualistic "click the update button" and "perform the ritual heresy scan", not to forget the all important "clear history", the machine spirit will not be happy and shit will start to fuck up.
Having actually used a firearm, even if you slap electronics on it, the firing mechanisms are all mechanical. The reason for this is that it means no power sources are required to use them, and it simplifies the number of things that can go wrong.

So no, you shouldn't need to pray to your gun to reload it, but they do, and that's because it -works- for some reason.

>> No.38422496

>Having actually used a firearm

Good for you. I was in the army, so what?

>firing mechanisms are all mechanical

Not if it's electronically fired, and the bolter is, according to the schematics. There's also bound to be electronics for monitoring various systems from range finders to barrel heat monitoring to maybe adjusting rate of fire, fire modes, ammo counter, etc.

And you're forgetting that this is 40k, where people can't distinguish between mechanical and electronic. You please the machine spirit by oiling your gun and keeping it clean, or else it'll get mad and jam on you.

Look at the real world. What things are considered holy or pure? Garlic, silver, running water. Things that can hurt unholy creatures, like vampires. Where does this belief come from? From observing shit, but not having detailed knowledge of what's really going on. Garlic and silver are antiseptic, they help to fight off bacteria. So over thousands of years people would have noticed shit like dudes cut with silver not being as likely to die as dudes cut with iron. Or garlic being good for you. And anyone who's done any wilderness survival will now the difference between running and standing water and health.

So you oil your gun and keep it clean, because not doing it will cause shit to jam up. Because of, lol dunno, the machine spirit I guess.

>> No.38422508

>and yet GW has to go there to get their concepts
>Doesn't even know the main GW superheavy tanks originate from 1991-1994.

>> No.38422569


What the difference?

>> No.38422575

So it's electronically fired where is the power source for the Bolter? Or the power cable?

Also electronic firing mechanisms have so many ways to go wrong that frankly I find it to be pretty fucking stupid.

But then again it's the same weapon that uses caseless ammo that is always depicted ejecting shells, and forgets that gyrojets are a 2 stage round and treat them more like bullets than the less accurate rockets they actually are (not to mention they make recoil negligible for the person using it, meaning if you're strong enough to life a Bolter you should be able to fire it, but most of the time they're written as having a lot of recoil).

So forgive me for raising an eyebrow at it and thinking it was even a little intelligent in it's design.

>> No.38422820

>So it's electronically fired where is the power source for the Bolter? Or the power cable?

How much power do you think it needs? A fucking battery is probably enough for a good few thousand rounds if not more. All it needs is a little zap to light the primer, nothing more.

>Also electronic firing mechanisms have so many ways to go wrong that frankly I find it to be pretty fucking stupid.

And mechanical ones don't? I've seen a brand new military rifle straight out of the box bust its firing pin in a few days. I've had mine clogged with sand so bad even months later and several times cleaning it you could feel a little grains still rattling in there.

>weapon that uses caseless ammo that is always depicted ejecting shells

Show me one source claiming bolters are caseless, please. You have shell casings mentioned in several pieces of fluff. Fucking one of the Marine awards is made out of a bolter casing fire by Girlyman himself (5e SM codex).

>make recoil negligible

Each action as an equal and opposite reaction. The force that ejects the bullet out of the gun also pushes back on the gun. Bolters fire the bolt out with a primary charge that's still powerful enough to be deadly at close ranges before the rocket booster fires and the explosive payload arms. Otherwise bolters would be crap at point blank range. And the force that affects the bolt also affects the gun and through the gun the operator.

>So forgive me for raising an eyebrow at it and thinking it was even a little intelligent in it's design.

Problem is you don't seem to know shit about how the bolter is suppose to operate.

>> No.38422851

Column is a military unit on the march. Convoy is usually non-military in nature, or at least not fully militaristic. Like supply convoys and shit, made out of more than just combat units.

>> No.38423535

Gyrojet rounds are caseles by design.

Additionally Gyrojets have a VERY low recoil:
>Rather than inert bullets, Gyrojets fire small rockets called Microjets which have little recoil and do not require a heavy barrel to resist the pressure of the combustion gases. Velocity on leaving the tube was very low, but increased to around 1,250 feet per second (380 m/s) at 30 feet (9.1 m). The result is a very lightweight weapon.

It doesn't have shell casings in the fluff because it should, it has them because the writers don't know any better.

>> No.38423655

Man every time 40k concept art gets posted it's always better than the end result. I want that concept mk8 errant armour.

I'd hate to see concept art for the orkanauts too, they're bound to be so much better than the beer belly fuck we have.

>> No.38423754

They probable decided that it looked too much like Terminator armor.

>> No.38423830

Gyrojets took too long to get to their top speed, any sort of wind would knock it off target and it was absolutely useless in close quarters.

GW took gyrojets and made them into bolts, giving them that secondary gunpowder charge to kick them out the barrel at speed fixes every major problem gyrojets have.

A bunch of britbongs fixed gyrojets and all you can do is bitch about it not making sense.

>> No.38423879

Yeah, I'm going to go ahead and doubt that a bunch of fiction writers who don't have a background related to firearms are capable of making a real fix to it.

>> No.38423894

Bolts are not gyrojets. Bolts borrow the rocket propelled aspect, but add a shell casing to give it an initial push, something which the gyrojet lacked, causing problems with velocity at short ranges and accuracy problems.

>It doesn't have shell casings in the fluff

But bolts do, as indicated by the fluff.

You're very hung up on this idea that bolts are gyrojets and only gyrojets.

>> No.38423901

The gauntlets are a bit terminator like, but other than that I don't see it. I think the much thicker gauntlets were dropped as they'd look too clunky on a mini, like a power fist holding a bolter.

>> No.38423937

The part on the back looks very terminator-eske with how it comes up above the head.

>> No.38423978

Looks stupid as fuuck

>> No.38424992

They should be able to take whatever combination of wargear they like, in whatever combination.

Assault Cannon and Lightning claw
Storm Shield and Power fist.

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