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38022854 No.38022854 [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

>Exalted, what is that?
An epic high-flying role-playing game about reborn god-heroes in a world that turned on them.
Read this article to get a hang of the setting: http://theonyxpath.com/exalted/

>That sounds cool, how can I get into it?
Read the 3e core book. For mechanics of the old edition, play this tutorial: http://jyenicolson.net/exalted/. It'll get you familiar with most of the mechanics.

>Gosh that was fun. How do I find a group?
Roll20 and the Game Finder General here on /tg/ are both places where games could be found. Still, they tend to be rare since no one wants to ST. With the new edition, though, chances are more games will crop up. Keep your eyes peeled.

Resources for Third Edition
>Pre-Layout 3E Leak https://mega.co.nz/#!1p0RQTyS!1fvgzcFVcAsnxWb3ExDE3b_PZHaGMEY7G3YOSVGdu9I
>Mostly correct charm tree charts http://forums.sufficientvelocity.com/posts/2791871/

Resources for Second Edition
>Archive with Errata notes: https://www.mediafire.com/folder/253ulzik1j9s5/Exalted
>Fanmade crossbook indexes: http://www.4shared.com/office/_Ke_MsnJba/_exalted_indices.html
>Some mechanics reference sheets: social https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/53927438/CheatSheetSocial_0-5.pdf combat https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/53927438/CheatSheetCombat_0-7.pdf
>Infernal Bandaid: http://forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/main-category/exalted/124885-how-to-put-a-band-aid-on-infernals/page2#post128384
>Anathema character generator: http://anathema.github.io/

Dawn edition. Yes, we actually can have a Dawn edition in third edition. They are amazing, now.

>> No.38022880

Need ideas for an alternate Twilight caste mark

>> No.38022888

Damnit, I posted just as this new thread came up. Well here comes the repost I guess.

I was just passing by, and I wondered if anyone has had certain phrases become kind of tropes among their group. For mine, the phrase 'X is not a combat character.' has become a commonly used joke, as someone who made a social character ended up as the one who could also deal the most damage. Anyone else with similar stories?

>> No.38022944
File: 198 KB, 546x500, Twilight Rider.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
38022944

So. New crafting system, with major, superior, and legendary projects. Anyone have any ideas of what they're going to make? There are high level manses and artefact weapons and armour, which are the easiest to imagine, but what if I want to play as a alchemist? Besides the Soul Perfecting Elixer, what can I make?

>> No.38022963

By request, a single round of combat between two Essence 4 Solars. Hold onto your seats, things are about to get anime.

---

The battle starts with the two champions of both sides closing in, surrounded by the fallen. They're both at high initiative and full Essence and have decided to settle this once and for all.

Dalamedes, a Single Point Shining Into The Void Style user, has his form stance activated which splits his initiative and actions to two different turns, one for his sword and one for himself. He opens with a Blinding Nova Flare, which is a two-part attack. The first is a gambit that on success makes the follow-up undodgeable and unblockable and transfers extra successes straight to the second attack's damage pool. His Solar Melee using enemy, Cindersong, doesn't want it to go that far, so she simply says "Die" and churns out a monstrous (withering that deals lethal) counter-attack with her orichalcum reaver daiklave in Flashing Edge of Dawn that on a hit will likely kill Dalamedes. If it doesn't, Cindersong doesn't even lose initiative.

Dalamedes sees the attack coming and utilizes Horizon-Swallowed Flash Cut to reflexively clash against the Flashing Edge of Dawn. Before the attack is resolved, though, Cindersong's blazing anima coalesces into an ephemeral copy of herself as Peony Blossom Technique allows her to launch a sudden slash in an attempt to lower Dalamedes's momentum. Dalamedes is not too worried about the withering attack, so he doesn't defend against it beyond stunting. Peony Blossom Technique hits and leeches initiative from Dalamedes's Sword pool, so even when Dalamedes wins the clash his damage pool is too low for him to penetrate through Cindersong's Heavy Articulated Orichalcum Plate. The hit was a success, however, so his sword resets to base initiative. Now, uncontested, the Blinding Nova Flare's gambit is checked. It hits, but with only base initiative in the pool there is no chance for it to succeed on the difficulty 5 required.

>> No.38022984

>>38022888
Oh, hey. What are you doing on 4chan, A?

>> No.38022997

>>38022963
Now, Dalamedes launches the second portion of Blinding Nova Flare using his own, untouched initiative pool. He imbues the attack with a solid 8 points of excellency and Liquid Steel Flow which would convert three of the damage dice to automatic successes on hit. Cindersong thinks the time for playing is over and utilizes her signature move, Over-and-Under Method, which allows her to both clash reflexively against Blinding Nova Flare's Attack with a charm called Fervent Blow AND use Flashing Edge of Dawn as a counter, something you usually cannot do. Dalamedes has to act fast, so he decides to use his ace; He is not only a martial artist, he also is a master of Thrown. Reflexively launching Cascade of Cutting Terror at Cindersong, Dalamedes can use his full thrown excellency for the undodgeable decisive attack for free.

Cindersong contemplates for a moment and then decides that if she can land a chance hit with a second Peony Blossom Technique, she doesn't have to deal with the Cascade at all. She's alright with Dalamedes using Horizon-Swallowed Star Flash on the attack because the Single Point technique is a lot more expensive and they're both getting low on motes. Thus, she decides not to pump the Peony Blossom Attack at all and sees how things go.

Dalamedes thinks, seeing the glowing outline of Cindersong springing into action. He still has to contend with both attacks of Over-and-Under Method and the massive amount of initiative Cindersong has gathered from withering his sword. He has Seven Shadow Evasion which would let him negate the incoming attack completely, but he knows Cindersong has Heavenly Guardian Defense which she can use to reduce Cascade of Cutting Terror's successes to zero while still retaining enough momentum to kill Dalamedes in one blow.

>> No.38023002

>>38022963
Yesssss

>> No.38023028

>>38022997
Dalamedes doesn't even attempt to defend against the attack. Cindersong's eyes widen in surprise as she lets loose all her initiative in one fatal blow. Dozens upon dozens of damage. Dalamedes, almost cloven in half, grins. Uncanny Shroud Defense lets him keep his last health level from being marked off, putting him at horribly wounded but not dead. He pulls a throwing knife from his sleeve and flicks it at Cindersong with blinding speed, even as their swords are crossed and spitting sparks.

Then it hits her. Dalamedes took that hit so that Cindersong couldn't protect herself from his knives with Heavenly Guardian Defense and had to resort to using her actual parry. Gritting her teeth, she declares Dipping Swallow Defense and spends almost all of her precious motes to boost her parry with her excellency to thwart the attack. She manages, barely, but takes joy in knowing that she has her already paid Over-and-Under Method's Clash against the Blinding Nova Flare's Attack coming up and Dalamedes is taking some heavy wound penalties.

With a roar, Cindersong slices diagonally downward and sends the incoming Blinding Nova Attack aside - the twin attacks of Over-and-Under method manifesting as one. She might be at base initiative for Fervent Blow's Decisive, but Flashing Edge of Dawn's attack happens after Fervent Blow succeeds, both attacks so simultaneous that Flashing Edge's damage is added to the damage pool of Fervent Blow if it succeeds. Cindersong wins the clash. Dalamedes smiles. Cindersong grins. Dalamedes smiles wider. Uh oh.

>> No.38023081

>>38022872
Our GM has a mantra: 'It's not that kind of game.'

>> No.38023138

>>38023028
Dalamedes calmly declares Horizon-Swallowed Star Flash, clashing against the -Flashing Edge of Dawn portion- of Over-and-Under Method. Ridiculous. Unbelievable. They're simultanous hits that are resolved sequentially so if Dalamedes wins the clash he can kill Cindersong before the effects of her Fervent Blow are counted. Full Martial Arts Excellency. That's all his motes, but one. With his last mote, he activates Fatal Stroke Flash - a technique that makes him deal additional damage equal to the difference between him and his enemy in initiative. Cindersong is at base initiative, while Dalamedes has only suffered minor hits from missing his attacks.

Cindersong gasps and scampers to mount more offense into her attack. It's withering, so she enjoys an accuracy bonus, and Excellent Strike and - screw it, put the last three motes into Melee excellency. Both completely out of motes, this is the attack that decides the winner. Cindersong only needs one level of damage to kill Dalamedes, who is barely standing but had more motes to put into his excellency. Dalamedes' pool has 9.5 expected successes. Using Excellent Strike, Cindersong rerolls ones so she's at 8.8 rolled and one automatic success. Dalamedes' dice pool is higher than hers, so those double tens really can matter - but she can reroll her ones.

You tell me who won.

>> No.38023156

>>38023081
>>38022888
I find that inside jokes usually appear very dull when you try and explain them to outsiders.
Definitely "you had to be there".

>> No.38023168

>>38022963

Wait, hang on. I thought that you couldn't clash against counterattacks. Does the charm let you do that?

>> No.38023196

So, assuming you're not interested in 'infinite gm' shenanigans, what are the craft charms you want if you want to make daiklaves? Not a full charm suite, just a couple of hints for things to look at.

>> No.38023205

>>38022963
> They're both at high initiative
What does that mean?
What are these characters' stats?

>> No.38023222

>>38023196
infinite xp, even.

>> No.38023232

>>38023138
=Battle Specifics=

P1 Blinding Nova Flare
-> P1 <Sword> Blinding Nova Flare Gambit
-> P2 Flashing Edge of Dawn (4m, 1wp), Chopping Tag (i1), 5 pt Melee Excellency (+5m), Fire and Stones Strike (+5m), Excellent Strike (3m) [Counterattack]
-> P1 <Sword> Horizon-Swallowed Star Flash vs Flashing Edge of Dawn [Clash] (8m, 1wp) + Full MA Excellency (+10m) <P1 Wins>
* Flashing Edge of Dawn vs Horizon-Swallowed Star Flash Clash resolves, P1 wins.
-> P2 Peony Blossom Technique Withering Attack (1m, 1wp, 3a) [Reflexive], 5 pt Melee Excellency (+5), Chopping Tag (i1), Fire and Stones Strike (+5m), Excellent Strike (3m) <P2 wins>
* P2 Peony Blossom Technique Resolves, damages <Sword>'s Initiative
* P1 Horizon-Swallowed Star Flash doesn't do enough damage to bypass hardness.
* P1 Blinding Nova Flare Gambit Resolves, P1 <Sword> has reset to base initiative after Horizon-Swallowed Star Flash, Gambit doesn't succeed

-> P1 <User> Blinding Nova Flare Attack + Liquid Steel Flow (5m, 1wp) + 8 pt MA Excellency (+8m)
-> P2 Over-and-Under Method (7m, 1wp)
-> P2 OaUM: Fervent Blow vs Blinding Nova Flare Attack [Clash] + 5 pt Melee Excellency (+5m), Excellent Strike (3m)
-> P1 <User> Cascade of Cutting Terror [Reflexive] (5m, 1wp)
-> P2 Peony Blossom Technique Decisive Attack [Reflexive] (1m, 1wp, 3a)
-> P1 Uncanny Shroud Defense (6m)
* P2 Reset to base initiative
* P1 Cascade of Cutting Terror Resolves
->P2 Dipping Swallow Defense, +10m Parry
*P1 misses, -3i
* P2 OaUM: Fervent Blow vs P1 Blinding Nova Flare Attack Clash Resolves
* P2 Wins
-> P2 OaUM: Flashing Edge of Dawn, 3 pt Melee Excellency (+3m), Excellent Strike (3m) [Counterattack]
-> P1 <Sword> Horizon-Swallowed Star Flash vs Flashing Edge of Dawn [Clash] (8m, 1wp) + 10 pt MA Excellency (+10m), Fatal Stroke Flash (1m, 1wp)

Dalamedes (10 form, 5 attunement) - 61 motes
Cindersong (5+6 attunement) - 65 motes

>> No.38023292

>>38023156
>>38023081
It might be clearer if you imagine it in the same tone of voice as 'I'm not that kind of girl!'

>> No.38023315

>>38023292
L-lewd...

>> No.38023379

>>38023292
Okay that is a little funny.

>> No.38023436

>>38023205
>>38023232
Essence 4 Solars, 5+5+1 spec combat stats. Orichalcum daiklaves (reaver and reaper respectively), Cindersong has heavy artifact armor. Dalamedes uses other solar charms to illustrate the point that he's been spending his normal XP on those and Solar XP on Single Point.

The amount of initiative isn't actually important, it's a rocket tag situation. Around ~25 initiative, Dalamedes has that in both of his pools due to having used his form and racked up twice the actions during whatever combat occurred against mooks before.

The point of this scenario is to elaborate on the intricacies of higher level dueling, where two warriors put every single drop of their essence into play to try and come out on top in one turn. It's an ode to reflexive attacks, whether they are counters, clashes or conditional free attacks. I partially wanted to illustrate just how beastly Solar Melee is and just what others have to do to get around its overwhelming power.

>> No.38023438
File: 54 KB, 315x320, lewd.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
38023438

>>38023292

>> No.38023469

>>38023168
You can clash against counterattacks, but you can't use both a clash and a counter-attack charm against the same attack - unless you are using Over-and-Under Method like Cindersong does.

>> No.38023500

>>38023436

Didn't either of them have any Evocations? Nobody in the past few threads has been talking about the recently.

>>38023469

Thanks for clearing that up.

>> No.38023572

>>38023500
I love Evocations, but for the sake of this test I omitted them. Evocations are very varied in power level, are encouraged to be custom-made, GMs might say no to you having that Artifact 5 Volcano Cutter and so on. I felt their presence would've skewed things a bit too much and the idea was to pit two fighting styles against each other to see what happens.

>> No.38023651

>>38022984
Who is A? At best the only letters that could be used in my group would be... M, J, Ma, St, K, or T...

>> No.38023669

>>38023572

Okay, cool. It's just that I see people talk about what combats abilities are good at what and the same for MA styles but nothing on Evocations.

>> No.38023716

So the verdict is that Solar Melee is the strongest hand-to-hand combat option in the game, it seems. Dalamedes had to rely on Thrown, Dodge AND Occult charms to go through the fight, while cindersong relied entirely on melee and she still was able to nearly mortally would Dalamedes without taking damage herself.

>> No.38023777

>>38023716

Solar Melee is the strongest all-rounder. If Dalamedes had been a Brawl specialist, he would have bent Cindersong over his knee and fisted her so hard the Unconquered Sun would feel it.

By converse, he would be shittier against multiple foes.

Don't mistake Dalamedes being a dabbler with weakness in the trees.

>> No.38023786

>>38023572
A lot of stuff happens in one round for sure
Did you consider the bit about supplementals supposedly not able to be used for "magical actions"? Because I'm not sure RAW the Excellency can be used to supplement any attack created by a Charm... though I admit it's fucking stupid that's how the current ruleset reads

>> No.38023792

>>38023716

Bear in mind that Cindersong had heavy plate and Dalamedes didn't.

>> No.38023897

>>38023786
I'm fairly certain it doesn't work like that, nor is it intended to do so.

>> No.38023931

>>38023669
Check out the Evocation I wrote here.
>>37890278

>>38023716
Dalamedes doesn't actually use Dodge, though I wanted to point out that it is likely he has it. He had more options, perfecting the attack would've kept Cindersong's initiative so high she could've just Heavenly Guardian Defensed everything else he had coming.

What really makes me twitch is that Heavenly Guardian Defense works for clashes, but Seven Shadow Evasion doesn't. This is because SSE creates a defense and the winner of a clash is determined by the winning attack between the two, not the winner between attack and defense.

On -top- of that Heavenly Guardian Defense makes the enemy hit you, which resets their initiative pool. Not to mention the conversion rate. One die of damage is 0.5 successes. For every initiative you spend you nullify two of theirs on average.

>> No.38023960

>>38023931
Heavenly Guardian Defense isn't very useful in a duel, though, unless somebody suddenly drops a mountain on you.

>> No.38023982

>>38023897
I am too, but...
>Supplemental—Supplemental Charms enhance a non-magical action, such as an attack roll, crafting roll, or social influence roll.
>non-magical action

Please understand I'm not trying to bust your balls or make a point or be confrontational about anything. I'm just curious as to how other anons read this and what do they think of it. I'm also a little worried since this is apparently the text that is ready to go into layout and publishing.

Personally I think it's stupid, more so because nowhere in the book is explained what a "magical action" is.

Also, the old 2e/3e playtest rule about supplementals being forced to be used for each and every action they could legally supplement in a round seems to be gone. What do you think of that?

>> No.38023997

>>38023786
>>38023897

"non-magical actions" are expressly called out as things like "attack rolls," "crafting rolls," and so on, so it absolutely includes attacks created by Charms, because those are attack rolls.

I'm pretty sure the INTENT is that you can't invoke Supplemental Charms on things that aren't other rolls in the system called-on by or used exclusively in magic.

I'm struggling to put it into words, but I know it when I see it. Say, like, a Raksha Charm gets you into an edginess contest, with you both rolling Manipulation + Melee to see who wins. You couldn't activate Excellent Strike on that, because it's a "magical" action, one that only exists in the context of another magical effect.

>> No.38024014

>>38023982
It's dumb. Just go with whatever interpretation is least retarded to you, up to and including just flat out ignoring that term entirely.

>> No.38024076

>>38023982
>Also, the old 2e/3e playtest rule about supplementals being forced to be used for each and every action they could legally supplement in a round seems to be gone. What do you think of that?

It makes sense. Ex2 had an assload of Extra Action Charms, and wanted you using the supplemental for each and every attack in the series. In comparison, Ex3 has MUCH bigger restrictions on multi-attacks, so the rule is moot.

>> No.38024118

>>38024014
But see, after OPP keeping roughly two hundred of my dollar euro shekels for nearly two years I'd like a finished product that had no part where I was forced to say "This is too dumb, into the garbage with it"

>> No.38024137

>>38024118
Kickstarter isn't a downpayment, it's a speculative investment.

lrn2stockmarket

>> No.38024167

>>38024118
Well, to be fair? That might BE the intended interpretation all along. We ain't gonna know for a good while.

>> No.38024264

>>38024118
>I'd like a finished product that had no part where I was forced to say "This is too dumb, into the garbage with it"
you're in the wrong hobby, sorry

>> No.38024272

>>38024137
This fails because OPP has repeatedly stated, for each and everyone of his KS, that the goal is not for the realization of the product. OPP pushes books into KS only after already being sure they are going to be published. The KS is for the fancy covers. Exalted 3 would have existed anyway and the result of the KS had no bearing on the quality of the final product, except for thsoe stretch goals that added content to it.

I know, I know, if I think like that then the fact that I paid them in advance for the book shouldn't have any bearing on my expectations for it either way right? But basic ethics here, dude. We showed a lot of faith in OPP by investing a lot of money for products we aren't going to see for months, maybe even a year from now, plus all the money we invested in things that have production value 0 for them. The least they could do is give us as functional, beautiful and polished a product as they can manage.

>> No.38024370

>>38023960
It's absolutely useful in a duel, probably the greatest charm in one. The uncountable damage is a nice bonus, but hardly the point.

Think of HGD as a charm that reads as a reflexive withering counterattack the enemy cannot defend against in any way that deals two initiative damage per one initiative spent and has no timing or combo restrictions.

>> No.38024378
File: 167 KB, 968x1264, x.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
38024378

>>38023786
>>38023897
>>38023997
My contribution to this is that Charms which are Simple should most definitely be allowed to have appropriate Supplemental Charms apply to them.

>> No.38024401

I paid for a custom charm.

Any suggestions?

>> No.38024429

>>38024401
Request your money back, and keep the Charm. Your ST will never see it coming.

>> No.38024433

>>38024401
Lunar-taming leash

>> No.38024439

>>38024401

As a Kickstarter bonus? Is it for a specific splatbook?

>> No.38024457

>>38024401
How about everyone recognises your authority or duty to do something? In rags, people know you as king; weaponless, they know you as soldier.

>> No.38024462

>>38024401

Have you considered cryogenic freezing?

>> No.38024469

>>38024439
>As a Kickstarter bonus? Is it for a specific splatbook?

I basically paid for the devs to homebrew a charm for me, I think there were 10.

>> No.38024471

>>38024401
super-praying.

FUCK YOU MORKE!

>> No.38024481

>>38024401
Ask them for a Charm to make Craft not a huge waste of time and effort.
You'll blow your purchase but the reaction should be well enough.

>> No.38024485

>>38024401
Does it have to be a Solar charm?

>> No.38024496

Is there a place I could look for character art references?

>> No.38024497

>>38024471
Actually, that's not a bad idea.

>> No.38024511

>>38024496
Deviantart.
Just deviantart.

>> No.38024529
File: 56 KB, 774x1032, sato_by_sakimichan-d58r9qe.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
38024529

So, got a friend asking why Craft is fucked. I've seen the arguments a few times, but no one's ever really gone into detail about them.

Could someone?

>> No.38024534
File: 263 KB, 812x1066, Heavenly Guardian Defense preq.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
38024534

>>38024370
>>38023960
>Think of HGD as a charm that reads as a reflexive withering counterattack the enemy cannot defend against in any way that deals two initiative damage per one initiative spent and has no timing or combo restrictions.

>> No.38024571

>>38024497
Or somewhat more reasonably super prayer-leading.

>> No.38024578

Gentleman, I'm looking to play a Silver Voiced Nightingale stylist who remixes the style utilizing castanets to spike people with piercing volleys of high pitched clicks that hit like dozens of rubber bullets leaving a spread of welts on the enemy's skin.

However, I now kind of want a set of artifact castanets to benefit this character. Do you guys have any cool ideas for evocations/backstory for a set of such castanets?

>> No.38024600

>>38024578
They were forged by Sticky Vicky, the Goddess of Spanish smut.

>> No.38024615

>>38024534
> Parry a volcano, or a curse
> Essence 2
Jesus fuck.

>> No.38024630

>>38024615
>parry the Great Curse
>no limit track
>first age survives

>> No.38024646

>>38024496

Unless they've a caste mark or anima banner, no art can be used for Exalted and nowhere else, so look anywhere. There's also the link below, just scroll down to "Characters".

http://pastebin.com/0nCEVfB4

>> No.38024647

>>38024578
Isn't your kiai already an artifact weapon? So an artifact instrument probably wouldn't confer any direct benefits to attack.

>> No.38024651

>>38024630
The Great Curse was an unexpected attack.

>> No.38024673

>>38024600
>Sticky Vicky
I googled.
Fuck you.

>> No.38024692

>>38024370
Are you kidding me? You can't use HGD in a duel because any opponent with half a brain isn't going to make a decisive attack on you until your initiative is either way too low for you to wipe out much of the damage or until you're outright crashed and can't fucking USE HGD.

>> No.38024747
File: 322 KB, 531x471, Absolutely Halal.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
38024747

>>38024673
My work here is done.

>> No.38024757

>>38024370
Yeah, no. Against a Melee Solar I'm not making decisives until he's crashed.

>> No.38024760

>>38024651
HGD can parry unexpected attacks.

Also, am I missing something or is that anew unlimited use PD? It can parry anything If you have the initiative, and it's not like you'll be low on initiative compared to them.

>> No.38024762

>>38024647
This is more about adding a tree of evocations. For example, Latino Heat, my kiai's are now fire attacks. Things like that. I know they -are- artifact weapons, but I like the idea of evocations to make happen with these castanets.

>> No.38024779

>>38024401
A Stealth charm that in some way replicates Falling Icicle Strike from Thrown so that you can actually backstab or snipe people for big damage when you specialize in Stealth and not Thrown.

Integrity Charm that lets you use your Resolve as your Parry defense, in the vein of one of my favorite charms:

WOUND-DENYING DRAGON FAITH
Cost: 1m; Mins: Integrity 4, Essence 3; Type: Reflexive (Step 2)
Keywords: Combo-OK
Duration: Instant
Prerequisite Charms: Any Integrity Excellency
The Dragons know they are invulnerable, and so they are. Upon activating Wound-Denying Dragon Faith, the character substitutes his Dodge MDV for his Dodge DV to defend against a physical attack (meaning his maximum DV bonus recalculates from his Willpower and Integrity ratings). All current bonuses and penalties that apply to either his Dodge DV or Dodge MDV apply to the DV generated by this Charm. If the Terrestrial dodges the attack, he appears to have exerted no effort to do so as though the attacker just missed. Solar and Abyssal Exalted have Mirror counterparts of this Charm named Invincible
Ego Shield and Dark Will Triumphant (respectively) that have Cost: 5m, 1wp and Duration: One scene.

War Charm that lets you either give a command order reflexively or let you flurry it with your other actions, allowing you to control a battle group and fight at the same time. Right now it takes your whole turn.

High end Presence Charm that prevents people from moving closer to you if you beat their Resolve because you are too terrifying.

Medicine capstone that allows you to unlock pressure points and chakras to make Essence flow faster, increasing your Essence regen per turn by one.

Just a few ideas.

>> No.38024800

So, with the new social combat system based entirely around Intimacies, what are some good Intimacies to take to resist as many harmful social attacks as possible?

Something negative for the antagonists seems obvious, as does a positive Intimacy towards your party. Any other recommendations?

>> No.38024808

Wait, shit, everyone shut up. This guy could fix Resistance. What about the suggestion going around of a charm that creates an ablative pool of initiative?

>> No.38024825

>>38024800
Defining Principle of "I rule, you drool"

Universally applicable to anything you don't want to do.

>> No.38024902

>>38024808
Resistance is fine. AST the first decisive attack that comes your way to ignore it, then Aegis of Invincible Might makes you immune to everything for the remainder of the battle. You won't kill people quickly with supernal resistance, but they won't kill you ever.

>> No.38024904

>>38024800
Pick the appropriate Intimacies for your character instead of trying to game the system, faggot. If you want to avoid social influence at all tell your ST instead.

>> No.38024913

>>38024692
>>38024757
So there is no value in forcing your enemy to use only withering attacks until they somehow manage to whittle you down while you're free to do whatever you want. Gotcha.

>> No.38024928

>>38024401

Something that reduces wound penalties WITHOUT making you go into a berserker rage.

>> No.38024952

>>38024904
The corebook itself tells you to take an Intimacy towards your circle so you don't get talked into betraying them.
The game itself encourages you to optimize your Intimacies.

>> No.38024964

>>38024529
Gladly, let's break it down shall we?

the design intent behind Crafting is that it very much SHOULD break the game with the kind of stuff you can create.intead of doing the reasonable thing and realizing that it's a fuck-stupid idea, they kept it and put a bunch of stalling blocks, the most prominent of them being craft split- the ability is now split into an unquantifiable amount of subskills (at one point the core reffers to "blacksmithing" as a single craft, at other it treats "weaponsmithing" and "armorsmithing" as two distinct abilities).

You need to have Craft (Artfiacts) 5 to even BEGIN crteating them and of course you also need Occult 5 and Lore 5 AND the Craft ability that best suits the artifact in question (so for example weaponsmithing for a Daiklave).

And the most hilarious part is, you can;t housrule it to be reasonable- the entire charmtree hinges on the idea that, yes, you WANT to have as many Crafts as possible, BECAUSE THOSE GIVE YOU CRAFTING XP.

And Crafting xp is used for two purposes- creating slots that allow you to make Artifacts... And a special Craft charm that transforms them INTO ACTUAL XP.

So that's where we are. Craft is a nightmarish deus-ex machina that snowballs out of control the moment you let it, but is absolutely and utterly USELESS for people who just wanted to have an option of being gimmicky and build stuff. Like you could with, you know, Sail, or Ride. It's impossible to "dabble" in Craft, you go all in or you don't go at all.

And even then it only works out if the game takes multiple stories and has A LOT of downtime. IF it doesn't, all those charms, most of which do nothing but generate most points or give you more slots for artifact creating, are sitting there completely useless.

As it is, Craft is the edgelord of the abilities, you literally have to scream at GM every time "NOTICE ME, LET ME USE IT" or it just does nothing at all.

It's shit.

>> No.38024965
File: 348 KB, 1241x900, AnimaFemale.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
38024965

>>38024904

"Hey ST, I totally want to ignore anything that might displease or bother me." probably will never go over well with anyone, unless your ST loves giving you free verbal handjobs every session.

>> No.38025002

>>38024913
Withering attacks tend to knock off a whole fuckton of init at once due to the ridiculously high damage numbers. You don't really need more than one good hit.

>> No.38025011

>>38024904
let me rephrase that, then.
How do I make a character for whom the appropriate Intimacies make him very hard to talk into bad things

>> No.38025031

>>38024964
>You need to have Craft (Artfiacts) 5 to even BEGIN crteating them
Wait this can't be right
You need to be an unsurpassed in all of Creation master crafter of Artifacts before you make your first Artifact? Aren't we missing something here?

>> No.38025039

>>38024913
Except you're not free to do whatever you want either, given that you also need to build up a good head of Initiative before you ever want to think about decisive attacks.

>> No.38025052

>>38025011

Define "bad things," because the whole point of the way the social system's set up is that your character is easy to talk into (and very difficult to talk out of) courses of action that agree with his Intimacies, even after they later become a bad idea.

There is no Intimacy towards the wisest course of action.

>> No.38025053

>>38024928
And make it Integrity. Integrity needs love.

>> No.38025058

>>38025011
Any intimacy can be used to talk someone into bad things

>> No.38025076

>>38025011
I don't know, think about what such a character would prize or abhor and pick those
What are bad things? What are good things?

>> No.38025101

>>38024800
Defining "I am free"
Major "Do What I Want"

>> No.38025107

>>38025076
>What are bad things?
things that don't benefit or even harm me.
What are good things?
Things that benefit me or those I like

>> No.38025108

>>38025031
No, that's actually correct. You must have Craft (Aritfacts) to create ANY artifact, even the 2 dot rating ones. Bascially, Craft (Artifacts) isn;t a skill with actual levels- it;s either 0 or 5, anything in between is useless, but you have to pay for it as if it was a normal skill.

and that's the LEAST ofthe problems with Craft.

>> No.38025133
File: 1.02 MB, 1024x734, never_forget_who_you_are__by_astripedunicorn-d7uiwhs.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
38025133

>>38024964
Most appreciated.

I've also heard that half of the crafting tree is there to help bypass the problem of needing a million crafts, is this also true?

>> No.38025136

>>38025107

You're in for a rough asspounding if you're thinking this is like 2e where you can slam down EDD and that's the end of social combat for you.

>> No.38025139
File: 160 KB, 600x900, FemaleSolar.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
38025139

>>38025011

Intimacy: Talking is for pussies

>> No.38025159

Just play a mute character. Ignore social combat because you don't understand anything the enemy is saying.

>> No.38025161

>>38025136
>EDD

Man you didn't even need that. You just needed to draw your weapon.

>> No.38025166

>>38024964
>Craft is the edgelord

There is no words for how retarded this sentence is.

>> No.38025178

>>38024964
>And Crafting xp is used for two purposes- creating slots that allow you to make Artifacts... And a special Craft charm that transforms them INTO ACTUAL XP.
That's a little dramatic.

Craft XP is used for slightly different things.
1)Actual crafting
2)Buying more Craft Abilities.
That number 2 is much lower in the tree, is much less restricted and is thus much more often useable. And is frankly VERY needed in order to be the craftsnerd you wanted to be.

Convering CraftXp into normal XP is a late game thing and happens in not very big chunks. It's not "the main thing".

The rest of the post, I'm seconding.

>> No.38025182
File: 2.02 MB, 1219x691, AntLunar.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
38025182

>>38025159

Mutes can't speak. They can understand. Unless you're playing some sort of vegetable.

>> No.38025186

>>38023138

The answer is Cindersong, because no Solar Meleeist leaves home without Perfect Strike Discipline. And I notice you didn't mention it...which means it's time to trigger the trap card for the clutch finale. I cannot believe I nerded out enough to melee to actually find out the win condition for this. Ex3 combat sounds seriously fucking awesome to play out at high level, way tense.

>> No.38025205

>>38025178
To be fair, it may be a late game thing, but you are a blithering idiot if you don't do it once you can.

>> No.38025210

>>38025182
I meant deaf, not mute. Sorry.

>> No.38025223

>>38025182
Deaf-mute is a thing.

>> No.38025238

>>38025133
Yes. Charms like Arete-Shifting Prana and Sublime Transference along with it's pals starting from the Brass Scales Falling charm exist SOLELY to let you ignore that obstacle by letting you spend crafting xp on rising Craft abilities and generating crafting xp on their own, so that you don't actually, you know, USE THEM. Because by god, what would be the point of that? It's not like anybody gets Craft because they want to craft things, that would be prespostrous. They only ever take it to make magitech assembley lines of inifnite warstriders and break the setting in half.

At this point, I will reiterate- IT'S SHIT.

>> No.38025250

>>38025159
you think i can't social combat you with supernaturally understandable body language

>> No.38025259

>>38025205
Yeah, of course.
The whole Craft thing is like that.
It gets hideously broken by just taking stuff that you very obviously WANT.
[2e PTSD flashback]

>> No.38025320

>>38024964
Honestly the slot idea was pretty okay. It's more that they split craft into so many subsections and then built some really bizarre ideas.

Craft (artifacts) 5 being one of them. Then there was the reference to Craft (First age artifice) which I'm not even sure how that works.

>> No.38025325

It's quite funny how this thread discusses how to optimize your character to be as good a physical combatant as possible but someone asks for how to optimize for social combat and he gets accused of trying to game the system.

>> No.38025351

>>38025325
Optimizing for social combat would be asking about what integrity and presence/performance/socialize charms to take, not "how do i get to skip out on an entire system"

>> No.38025361

>>38025238

Would there be a point in taking any of this up with Holden when the book hits? Should we at least try?

>> No.38025364

>>38025320
>Then there was the reference to Craft (First age artifice) which I'm not even sure how that works.
the same as Craft Artefacts 5.
Gotta five it in order to craft the extra-super-lost wonders rather than all the other slightly-less-lost-wonders.

>> No.38025387

>>38025031
>>38025108

Someone's being an idiot again. LEGENDARY projects are the ones with Craft (Artifacts) 5, Lore 5, etc. reqired.

You can start making artifacts as soon as you have Craft (Artifacts) 1, Lore 3, Occult 3, and another Craft at 4.

>> No.38025393

So, what are the necessary characteristics of an actually acceptable crafting system?

>> No.38025398

>>38025361
It's too late. The time was during playtest. They're not going to rip out and redo an entire tree and a subsystem with Errata.

>> No.38025403

/tg/, I need your help: How can you create a god in Exalted? Is there a predefined ruleset to do so?

>> No.38025410

>>38025403
As a player character or an NPC and which edition?

>> No.38025417

>>38025403
No, there is no chargen template. There are only example gods of variable power levels.

>> No.38025419

>>38025403
In 2e it's super easy, open up the Roll of Glorious Divinity volume 1.

>> No.38025420
File: 256 KB, 700x453, Magma Kraken.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
38025420

>>38025403
In 2e, Rolls of Divinity.

In 3e, no.

>> No.38025429

>>38025351
half the defensive social combat charms are based on your Intimacies too, so having some good Intimacies is pretty necessary for them

>> No.38025431

>>38025403

No, there isn't. Everything that has a god at all has one automatically, it's just (in most cases) not metaphysically significant enough for that god to be anything other than a footnote.

There's some other ways to create gods, but they're costly (e.g. Workings or certain Sidereal Charms).

>> No.38025450

>>38025410
NPC, the Mentor (lvl 5) of one of my characters.

Edition would be 2nd, but I think I can adapt anything

>> No.38025470

>>38025398

I suppose we can at least hope that the forums raises a big fuss about it.

>> No.38025477

>>38025431
Could you create a god by a sorcerous working in 3e?

>> No.38025507

So, the Socialize persona tree. What do you guys think about it?

>> No.38025508

>>38025477
It's an Ambition 3 CCS working.

>> No.38025520

>>38025477

Transforming a god into a demon or vice versa is listed as a valid Ambition 2 Solar Working, so I don't see why mortal <-> god or god ex nihilo wouldn't be valid.

>> No.38025550
File: 183 KB, 1008x600, b9f[1].jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
38025550

>>38025470
>the forums
95% of users would be sucking Holden's cock even if the Ex3 book was 950 pages of all the grocery shopping lists he ever wrote in his life
4% of users would protest but would be shouted down by the 95%
1% of users would protest and be persistent and argumentative enough to actually be heard and count for something till mods banned them for being too negative

>> No.38025564

>>38025361
Honestly, the guy loves the smell of his own farts so much that it's pointless. If he and Morke didn't repeatedly bash their heads into the wall after playetesters told them how incredibly dumbfuck the entire premise is (which they did), you're sure as hell not gonna change their mind.

It's not that the craft is badly designed. It's designed well for what it's trying to do. Or at least as well as they cared to give a fuck. It's just that what it;s trying to do is INSANE and they should fucking know better, after reading pages, upon pages, upon pages of threads on Magitech on OPP forum bashing Magitech left and right.

For some reason they believe that crafting in Exalted SHOULD be about breaking the game entirely and it SHOULD be pursued by people who want to build infinite assembley lines of warstriders.

So, congrats there I guess? Craft acomplishes that in spades. Byyyy virtue of being unusable for anything else.

>> No.38025580

>>38025470
I'm not placing any hopes on that.

>> No.38025598

>>38024471

>>38024471
This.

This so much. I have no problems with a lack of praying charms, but I really really want to know their reaction to this.

>> No.38025600

>>38025393
It acomplishes what it's designed to do. This one does that. What it's designed to do is dumb, but... It acomplishes it.

>> No.38025604

>>38025507
Not a huge fan, to be honest. If I was a bit less sleep-deprived I might be able to come up with actual reasons for this, but as it is I'll just say that the tree in question feels a bit off to me. Somehow not Solar-y.

>> No.38025623

>>38025477
There's an Occult charm that creates spirits. Ephemeral Induction Technique, if I'm not mistaken.

>> No.38025630

>>38025600
I'm talking more for the purposes of homebrewing up a system.

>> No.38025730

>>38025630
Honestly? Cut the Craft as a skill out completely and make different crafts into a series of merits like languages. And creating artifacts becomes a sorcerous working. This way people can have an option to have a character gimmick, like being a blacksmith or an alchemist, without the insanity.

The alternative is creating an entire charmtree from the bottom-up. Good luck with that.

The crafting subsystem itself, with the crafting xp and with different slots for different projects is cool, it might be salvagable. the problem is designing a new charmtree though.

>> No.38025735

>>38023436
>>38023232
But what if they didn't fight mooks beforehand? What if their duel was 1v1 from the get-go?

>> No.38025779

>>38024952
No, it encourages you to be smart with your intimacies. Stop being disingenuous.

>> No.38025822

Where could I find suitable animals for a 5 Familiar background?

>> No.38025836

>>38025564
To be at least slightly fair to Holden(While he is a massive ass) Morke is the one that has the hardon for craft being fucked. He's got on page-long rants about it.

Holden should have cunt-punted him on it, though.

>> No.38025847

>>38025735
Seconding this.
Do an honorable 1v1 duel between the same two people, so starting with the initial Join Battle roll

>> No.38025861

>>38025822
No such thing as Familiar 5. Get with the times.

>> No.38025875

>>38025779
how is being smart in picking Intimacies not optimizing them?

>> No.38025926

>>38025550

This is completely wrong.

At least 5% would be banned.

>> No.38025957

>>38025101
>Major "Do What I Want"

Good job. Now when a clever social-butterfly starts pulling your strings and manipulating you into wanting to do bad things, it'll be way harder to convince you to stop.

>> No.38025973

>>38025861
In 2ed I meant

>> No.38025975

>>38025730
>And creating artifacts becomes a sorcerous working.
This is still not a good idea.

>The alternative is creating an entire charmtree from the bottom-up. Good luck with that.
There aren't that many Charms that wouldn't work just fine with one unified Craft.

>> No.38026012

>>38025847
I think this wouldn't be as good due to more randomisations in the process swinging the end result.

With that test, it was from two same motepools on two same (set to high because that's the only meaningful amount) initiative amounts.

Doing whole shebang brings in needing awareness and diferentiating of who has how much in it and how much motes they dump into it.
And if you equialise this part, you arrive at the same thing we had, just with less motes.

>> No.38026015

>>38025973
There's still no such thing as a Familiar 5 animal in 2e. Familiar 5 gives you a Familiar 3 level animal with bonus magical properties.

>> No.38026040

>>38025836
I'm sorry, but seeing the poor state Craft is, I think I AM being fair.

Thse two have been told that crafting should about small scale things. They have been told that what people want to play as glorious builders and tinkerers, creating aqueducts and bridges with equal ease as they create beautiful works of art or war, They have been repeatedly told that magitech isn't desirable in large quantities and that building armies of warstriders is NOT what crafting should be about and was about in previous editions only because, much like this time, it could do it and it was WORTHLESS FOR ANYTHING ELSE.

They knew ALL OF THAT. and during playetsts they have been told that over and over and over again. And tey just... Ignored that.

I can respect their abilities as designers and I do, I really do, but I cannot forgive blatant ignorance.

>> No.38026043

>>38025875
It's "figure out what you don't want your character to do, give them intimacies that will help them not do that." not "come up with intimacies to ignore social combat."

"Have an intimacy towards the party" is more of a "you probably don't want to attack your party but might not think to grab an intimacy towards them so here's a reminder."

>> No.38026057

>>38025101
>Defining "I am free"
"These things are holding you back, caging you!"

>Major "Do What I Want"
"Here mate, lissen, X is suuch a fuckin sweet thing, you totally want it, right?"

>> No.38026061

>>38026015
I know, but I think I understand the problem

What I meant to ask is: The manual says "a powerful or dangerous pet". Is there a list (much like the artifact one) that explains which animal is good for this and which one isn't?

>> No.38026073

>>38025975
If by "that many" you mean half the tree and the stuff that it hinges on, sure.

Go for it. Remember to post it though, because I'm gonna use the shit out of it.

>> No.38026083

>>38025847
>>38025735

Dalamedes attacks twice per round for no cost and thus technically gains initiative faster unless he fucks up and eats a Flashing Edge of Dawn to the face. Cindersong would probably just Dipping Swallow Defense for the most part and absorb the bulk of the damage with her plate while sometimes baiting out clashes with Flashing Edge of Dawn or just basic Solar Counterattack to spare WP. If Dalamedes goes for a clash, Cindersong can just HGD out of it without using resources and wait for Dalamedes to expend more willpower until she can go for the the counterattack combo from the fight.

>> No.38026096
File: 53 KB, 720x720, Sometimes it's needed.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
38026096

>>38026040
No, I just mean that Morke is the one that pushed this hyper-hard.

Holden's main issue is he didn't put a stop to it, which is not really forgivable either, but it's not the same thing.

I just like proper blame to be assigned to the proper places.

>> No.38026097

>>38026073
>If by "that many" you mean half the tree and the stuff that it hinges on, sure.
It's a fucking huge tree, losing weight gonna do good to it.

>> No.38026106

>>38026057
Yeah, you protect yourself from social combat by tying yourself down and caring about things, not by being even more of a murderhobo.

>> No.38026133

>>38026096
While Holden tends to irritate me more on a personal level, it seems like ever decision i SPECIFICALLY dislike was all on morke

>> No.38026139

Defining Tie "Me > You"

Invicible

>> No.38026171

>>38026106
Just embrace the silent wind and let go of those pesky human worries, be free.

>> No.38026174

>>38025975
Which ones, out of curiosity, don't work with a unified craft? I hear it a lot, but I'm not that great at this sort of thing, myself.

>> No.38026184

>>38025550
Nah honestly the forums are a 50/50 split of idiots arguing about trivial crap and how everything is wrong while the other side argues everything is right.

>> No.38026194

>>38026139
Go home Malfeas, you're drunk.

>> No.38026222

>>38026139

I actually can't imagine it being that hard to prey on egos and narcissism, just suck up to people a lot and emphasize how great doing things you want will make them.

>> No.38026236
File: 76 KB, 900x300, No Fun Allowed.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
38026236

>>38026133
Yeah, it's funny how that goes. Holden is an abrasive ass on a personal level, but Morke's shit at game design.

I actually called him out on it in the past, on the whole "You can't use Evocations while in DBT", when I noted you should balance the tree so that you can use both at once...citing solars as an example. Nothing there shuts down THEIR native powers while using Evocations, but apparently DBT is just soooo powerful that dear god someone who spends XP on both Evos and that can't possibly be balanced EVER.

What a fucking moron.

>> No.38026241

>>38026139
"<guy I hate> thinks he's better than you! Not like me, I know my place."

>> No.38026272

>>38026139
Something like that seems incredibly easy for someone who is willing to swallow his pride when dealing with you to exploit. At best you'd be a guy who is hard to coerce but easy to manipulate.

>> No.38026291

>>38026241
and that's when he uses lie detecting charms and the whole thing comes crashing down.
Are there lie detecting charms in E3? How do the interact with the social combat system?

>> No.38026296
File: 36 KB, 500x375, SpecialDeliveryForMorke.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
38026296

>>38026133
>>38026096
>>38026040
>>38025836
>>38025564
>>38026236

>> No.38026297

>>38026236
>I actually called him out on it in the past, on the whole "You can't use Evocations while in DBT"
So is this confirmed for good?
Source?

>> No.38026314

>>38026222
Or go "You don't want to do this, huh? Could it be that you actually CAN'T do it? I can't blame you, it is pretty hard. I mean, I could totally do it but it's nothing to be ashamed of to not be equal to me."

>> No.38026316

>>38026222
Depends on the ego. It's hard to convince a guy who thinks you are fundamentally worthless to talk to. Though it honestly depends a lot on the Narcissism here. "Make my kingdom the greatest to exist?" has much different weakness then "I"m better then you so shut up." Or the office worker passive aggressive style Narcissism.

>> No.38026335

>>38026291
That's the purpose of the Persona charms that let you create an alternate personality that really DOES know his place and honestly believes hated-guy thinks he's better than "Im da best"-guy. Don't detect the lie because it's not lying.

>> No.38026336

>>38026236
What a wonderful blog anon.

>> No.38026337

>>38026139
"Oh my Lord, you are so glorious and superior, your stature is that of a god, your mien that of the Sun itslf. Shall we declare war to those accursed sounterners, that you may reign over them as you reign over me?"

I don't think you guys are very good at this.

>> No.38026341

>>38026291
>Are there lie detecting charms in E3?
A few. They're much weaker than 2e's. JET lasts for only an instant, for example, rather than scenelong.

>> No.38026347

>>38026291
>and that's when he uses lie detecting charms and the whole thing comes crashing down.
But what if that guy REALLY thinks he's better than you? There's like 75% chance it being true even without any additional manipulation applied to him.

>> No.38026365

>>38026335
That honestly is the first thing I wanted to do with those charms. Created the most asshole personality to exist but then give him manipulation 5 and have him sit around saving orphans.

>> No.38026368

Do social attacks that you know are lies (by using Judge's Ear, for example) automatically fail or at least get some sort of penalty? I don't see anything in the social combat rules.
It would be pretty weird to be convinced by something you know is a lie.

>> No.38026377
File: 251 KB, 728x745, Flamingly Wrong.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
38026377

>>38026297
Oh, it was some horseshit in the forums. Fuck if I can remember the exact topic now, it was a few months back. It was brainstorming on why Solars would ever use Evocations, I think or something of that sort, then got side-tracked into Lunars. I was a bit disgrunted to find out that the Evo/DBT spit was a thing in the least, and said as much. Morke popped in, said some plithy shit about the power scaling and I called horseshit. Of course he got all flustered and tried pulling the "B-but you've never made a game before!" card.

What's good for the goose and all. And Solars have no troubles mixing Evos, Sorcery and native magics all into one clusterfuck, but NOOOO, strictly one thingy per lunar.

Pic related at him, not you.

>> No.38026391

>>38026174
>Which ones, out of curiosity, don't work with a unified craft? I hear it a lot, but I'm not that great at this sort of thing, myself.

I'm a different anon, but looking through the Craft tree, I only saw three Charms that assume Craft is split up into multiple Abilities. When people say half the tree is built around it, I can only assume they mean all the Charms that give you crafting experience... which you can spend on more Crafts, yes, but you also have to spend to make things.

I think that the Charmset would work just fine if you ripped out Arete-Shifting Prana and Supreme Celestial Focus and houseruled Supreme Perfection of Craft to give crafting experience as though you had 2 Crafts or something. But I haven't run the numbers, much less tried the system myself.

>> No.38026413

>>38026336
Someone asks a question, fuckface. And it's on topic. Moreso then your shitposting, anyway.

>> No.38026431

>>38026391
Ah, thank you.

>> No.38026433

>>38026368

If it being a lie actually impacts the logic of the social attack (such as by making the Intimacy it's predicated on inapplicable), yeah. Otherwise, no.

For example, if a man rushes in and yells "Ten Thunders! Your wife is in danger! Go to her!" preying on Thunders' Intimacy of Love (his wife) and that pings a lie, that Intimacy ceases to apply, and Thunders gets to ignore the attack

On the other hand, "As scholars of the Immaculate Texts, you and I both know you must slay the Anathema!" wouldn't stop the social attack either way, since the lie (that the speaker isn't a scholar of the Texts) doesn't affect the logic (they do in fact say "slay the Anathema")

>> No.38026447

>>38026377
"Good for the goose and all" is stupid as hell, anon. The splats do not operate under identical design conceits. It's entirely possible DBT and evocations should be mixable, but that has nothing to do with what Solars can do; Lunars ought to be designed to give the desired and ideal Lunar experience, wholly independent of what other splats can do.

>> No.38026452

>>38026413
I"m not reading here to read about what some anon did in a forum in some long meandering obnoxious writing style. If I wanted that I would go to the forum where I can read that all day long.

>> No.38026468

>>38026452
*I'M* here to bitch about morke and listen to other people bitch about morke though, so you're going to have to put up with us

>> No.38026470

>>38026413
>>38026377
>>38026236

Go back to RPG.net or OPP forums or whatever equivalent shithole you crawled out of.

>> No.38026477

>>38026433
wouldn't knowing that the other guy just lied to you make you less likely to do what he wanted?

>> No.38026488

>>38026083
That sounds pretty airy. I'd like to see these in play. The initial one was great. If you could do the initial one, you can do this too!

>> No.38026498

>>38026391
>When people say half the tree is built around it, I can only assume they mean all the Charms that give you crafting experience... which you can spend on more Crafts, yes, but you also have to spend to make things.
Yeah, those. Multicrafts are both a tax and an engine for XP creating.

It needs just some tweaking.
Maybe make Craft unified but make those charms give you crafting XP for every disparate area you've done stuff in recently. I.e. forged a sword, crafted a piece of jewelry and made a potion - three areas, get XP as if you had three multicrafts.

>> No.38026507

>>38026433
Oh fuck me. It means now we have a social system that doesn't act in a ridiculously binary way and actually makes social interactions more complex?

That second example in particular is really interesting.

>> No.38026509

>>38026452
Then why not post something else on topic so you don't? Instead, you are continuing to shitpost about fuck-all on topic.

Great job.

>>38026447
No, it has exactly what to do with what Solars do. He flat out and out stated that it was TOO POWERFUL to allow the Native Lunar Magics and Evocations to interact, and that's why DBT had to shut off all Evocations. He was hammering on about it just being this ungodly powerful thing.

Which is fucking stupid. When pointed out Solars can and it's not too strong there, he just left the thread as is typical when he's put against something that directly contradicts what he just said.

>> No.38026512

>>38026477
Sometimes it's difficult to distinguish between a lie and the natural embellishments of language.

Is he lying about being a scholar in an attempt to get you to do what he wants? Is he embarrassed about not actually being a scholar?

>> No.38026518

>>38026477

You'd be amazed. People find themselves agreeing with things they know intellectually are lies all the fucking time.

But yes, in the latter example, say the reason he said it that way ("We both know...") was to prey on the guy's Intimacy of Respect (Fellow Immaculates). In that case, *that* Intimacy ceases to apply, which doesn't stop the social attack overall, but does mean that the defender's Resolve gets to be a little higher.

>> No.38026543

>>38026452
Who gives a shit what you're here for, exactly?

>> No.38026550

>>38026488
It took me a while to write out just one round of Essence 4 combat, I'd rather do a full play-by-play for something a little more accessible. Maybe a brawler versus some unarmed MA user at Essence 1 and no Supernal combat abilities. Any requests?

>> No.38026556

>>38026518
Time to make a character with Respect (Scheming dirtbags) so the best way to convince him to do things is to get caught lying to him.

>> No.38026562

>>38022963
>>38022997
>>38023028
>>38023138
Jesus, if this is 3e, I might have to forget ever playing again. Fucking Hell...

>> No.38026567

>>38026556

"You got balls lying to me, kid. I like that about you. Why don't you come over later and we'll have a drink."

>> No.38026572

>>38026509
>Which is fucking stupid. When pointed out Solars can and it's not too strong there, he just left the thread as is typical when he's put against something that directly contradicts what he just said.
What's too strong or not for Solars does not influence what's too strong or not for Lunars because they do not operate under the same fundamental design conceits. They are axiomatically different. A Solar is not a Lunar is not a Solar.

>> No.38026573

>>38026550
Might be "off task" but it WOULD be nice to see an actual play-by-play of social combat so we can talk less about "well *IN THEORY* x"

>> No.38026574

>>38026550

Brawler vs Black Claw, maybe? Seems like an interesting matchup.

>> No.38026578
File: 225 KB, 2371x1105, Brawl.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
38026578

>>38026550
Brawler against Crane or Tiger style?

>> No.38026581

>>38026562
What do you dislike?

>> No.38026589
File: 104 KB, 450x588, 1375971077413.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
38026589

>>38026562
Why, exactly?

>> No.38026620

>>38026567
Yeah exactly.

>> No.38026629

>>38026562
Don't be deceived. When presented in word format like he did, it's hard to decipher, especially when all these Charm-names get thrown around. Instead look at this
>>38023232
>>38023436

>> No.38026637

>>38026589
Reading is hard guys!

>> No.38026641

>>38026550
Kid Brawler VS Crane Style student GO

>> No.38026663

>>38026581
>>38026589
>>38026629
It's way too complicated. I can't do games in person, I live a hundred miles from any LGS or any other players, all I can do is play by post, and the thought of doing THIS in a forum is a fucking nightmare. I'd rather play 3.5 than this.

>> No.38026690

>>38026663

This is why you don't run any version of Exalted in pure PbP. It is amazingly easy to resolve this crap if you can get two people on IRC at the same time for five seconds so they can sort all their rolls out in a flash. If you play pure PbP exalted you deserve what you get.

>> No.38026706

>>38026663
that's why when combat comes up you agree to schedule an irc session to handle it.

That being said I would generally suggest playing something more rules lite for play by post unless you really love exalted.

>> No.38026772

>>38026706
I do love it! It's the best RPG setting I've ever seen! But the rules for it always suck, and the newest edition hasn't helped.

>>38026690
Not ashamed to newfag here, but what the hell is IRC?

>> No.38026809

>>38026772
>Not ashamed to newfag here, but what the hell is IRC?
One of the first uses of the internet. Google it mate.

>> No.38026812

>>38026772
>Not ashamed to newfag here, but what the hell is IRC?
seriously?
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=IRC

>> No.38026819

>>38026772

Internet Relay Client. AKA, text chat. It's like Skype but with less fancy bells and whistles, more customization options, minimal RAM consumption instead of dogshit lag and a divison in channels and servers instead of just one united net.

>> No.38026820

Would creating a golem count as a sorcerous working or a superior crafting project?

>> No.38026829

>>38026772
Internet chat protocol.

Can be replaced by whatever else you have, skype or whatever.

>> No.38026836

>>38026772
Chat rooms.

>> No.38026840

So what's the current biggest problems of 3E?

>> No.38026849

>>38026820
Building the body a Superior, animating it with magic a Working.

>> No.38026851

>>38026840
Light Artifact weapons are mathematically superior to all other weapons.

>> No.38026869

>>38026840
Well that depends what you want from it. If you're brian clevinger and think everything should be ultra rules-lite then the biggest problem with it is that it isn't brian clevinger's atomic robo RPG.

>> No.38026875

>>38026820
Honestly this to me would depend on how you make the thing. Artifice with clock work pieces? Crafting project. Creating it out of raw essence and binding it from possibility into reality? Sorcery.

>> No.38026884

>>38026851
That's true but not the biggest problem by any means.

>> No.38026885

So, am I the only one that finds Hold at Bay fucking retarded?
Basically an assassin ambushing you has the choice of either sticking you right there or keeping you talking forever until you decide to eat an attack that hurts you even more than if he had just attacked you from surprise the first time
I think at least if you choose to escape from a Hold at Bay you should get the penalties for a surprise attack, not an ambush. I get drama and all but the assassin guy should be penalized for deciding to talk and throw away surprise.

>> No.38026886

>>38026840
Crafting isn't great, and the amount of glorious golden cocksucking going on in the corebook is a bit annoying.

>> No.38026887

>>38026840
>>38026851

This. Craft is also overbloated and can be pared down significantly. Anything else is a personal quibble.

>> No.38026892

>>38026772
>But the rules for it always suck, and the newest edition hasn't helped.

It might not help your particular case, but the newest edition most certainly has helped the "rules suck" problem of Exalted.

Appart from a very small number of things, Ex3 is hallal as fuck.

Also fuck you 4chan stop making me find shit among the smallest pictures of food ever to grace the internet. What the fuck is this, a captcha for ants?

>> No.38026896

>>38026884
No one asked for THE biggest. Just the biggest.

>> No.38026898

>>38026869
Don't really care about the rules heaviness so much as flaws in the current system without outside desire for it to be different playstyle wise.

>> No.38026922

>>38026892
>Also fuck you 4chan stop making me find shit among the smallest pictures of food ever to grace the internet. What the fuck is this, a captcha for ants?
Just refresh the captcha, you INT 1 doofus. Click the button until it gives you a real captcha.

>> No.38026932

So, in social combat whats the best way to try and get someone to stop trying to social combat you, assuming you don't want to kill them.

>> No.38026951

>>38026885
>I get drama and all but the assassin guy should be penalized for deciding to talk and throw away surprise

No he shouldn't because this isn't Assassin Simulator 2015.

>> No.38026960

>>38026885
I'm actually pretty sure that is NPC only.

>>38026886
It be their book so in general they will be look up on just due to it being their perspective.

>> No.38026977

>>38026885
I fucking love Hold at Bay.

It INCENTIVIZES players and NPCs to act like movie villains and monologue at people. You'd only ever want to do it for the talking. It's just a fun, clever mechanic. If you don't want to bother with it, just do a standard surprise attack, as that's also in the system.

>> No.38026980

>>38026574
Definitely interesting, but would require prepwork on the surroundings and such. There's a quite a bit difference between a dynast gala and a small tea house, for example.

>>38026578
>>38026641
Two for Brawler versus Crane Style. I'll get on it, then, and this time write it out more comprehensively so that it's easier to read without referencing charms.

>> No.38026989

>>38026932
beat him unconscious or
leave the room

>> No.38026997
File: 1.43 MB, 2876x1412, ex How to play Solar 2n - Did nobody else see that herd of buffalo attack us.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
38026997

>>38026977
This is it exactly.

>>38026980
Sweet!

>> No.38027004

>>38026932
Having negative intimacies towards the person trying to persuade you would shut down a lot. Just like in real life!

>> No.38027011

>>38026960
>I'm actually pretty sure that is NPC only.
I'm pretty sure that's complete bullshit

>> No.38027031

>>38026980

If you do decide to go for a play example of Black Claw vs anything down the line, I suggest a crowded street, since that gives Black Claw a reasonable amount of room to do head games without handing out preexisting Intimacies on anybody.

>> No.38027053

Black Claw vs Brawl would be fun. I like to imagine the look of pure horror on every onlooker's face as this innocent lady gets her face beat in by some cruel thuggish Solar.

>> No.38027068

>>38026960
It's not NPC only, but it's a fine mechanic regardless.

If you just want to kill the guy, make it a standard surprise attack. Hold at Bay is specifically for evil gloating and the social bonuses you get from it.

>> No.38027097

>>38026932
Is this a 2nd Ed question, or a 3rd Ed question?

I think we're going to need a way to distinguish between the two now that we have two editions running concurently (at least somewhat).

>>38026922
They're throwing pictures of steak at me. Now I'm hungry as fuck. MAKE IT STOP PLEASE

>> No.38027098
File: 249 KB, 421x500, 1423014276437.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
38027098

>>38026980
>Crane style has two Essence 1 Charms
>Brawl has 9

>> No.38027106

>>38026875
Can I "create out of raw essence and bind it from possibility into reality" a daiklave? If not, why?

>> No.38027126

>>38027098

Martial Arts trees are small by design, hovering around 11 Charms each.

They're intended to be mastered, unlike the native ability trees, where you're not ever supposed to be able to catch 'em all unless you're some kind of monomaniacal Brawl fetishist.

(Disregarding War, which is unforgivably tiny, but still bigger than it was.)

>> No.38027130

>>38027106
Glorious Solar Saber lets you do that particular example.

>> No.38027139

>>38027130
For a scene. We're talking permanent here.

>> No.38027160

>>38027126
War packs one hell of a punch for the amount of charms it has though. It's honestly one of the more fun trees in the game.

>> No.38027165

>>38027139

By default? No. But I don't see why you couldn't create an extension that makes it permanent and lets you store it Elsewhere, so long as you keep the motes and WP committed.

>> No.38027197

>>38027160
Yeah I want to expand War but I'm honestly not entirely sure what I'd even add to it. It's elegant.

>> No.38027204

>>38027068
Odd I could have sword somewhere it says that PCs shouldn't get locked into this or something.

>> No.38027228

>>38027165
Ok, let me ask the question again, because you clearly ddn;t understand.

>Can I "create out of raw essence and bind it from possibility into reality" a daiklave? If not, why?

The WHY NOT part is the most relevant here.

>> No.38027264
File: 213 KB, 760x596, mightydeeds.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
38027264

>>38026241

Pic related.

>>38027139

Wyld Shaping Technique. It does Manses as well.

>>38027160

I was thinking that it looked alright. Is it good at what it does? Is it better than 2e? Is Mass Combat in Ex3 viable?

On top of this; What two combat abilities synergize well, considering that a Dawn takes Awareness, Dodge, and Resistance, but doesn't want to pick up War for whatever reason?

>> No.38027269

>>38026886
>the amount of glorious golden cocksucking going on in the corebook is a bit annoying
Some amount of that is understandable, as the corebook is also the Solar book. I am somewhat annoyed by things like the opening fiction and the ease with which the Solar handled those two Dragon-Blooded there. If that is indicative of what Dragon-Blooded actually are like in this edition I'll be pissed. If it's not, a lot of new players will form mistaken assumptions about them based on the corebook.

>> No.38027275

hey /tg/ If I were to pick two melee charms, just two, what two should I take? Excellent Strike and Sipping Swallow? Or do you think I could take a risk of taking Call the Blade and Summoning the Loyal Steel? The image of a hero go goes from unarmed into instantly battle ready is very compelling for me, but I doubt the effectiveness of using slots like that.

>> No.38027291

>>38027275
>Sipping Swallow
I bet you do a whole lotta THAT!


I'd take Excellent Strike and Dipping Swallow. With those you ensure you are very competent in melee compared to mortals.

>> No.38027292

>>38027228
And you were answered with "because there is no Charm for it but there is no practical or thematic reason for why you couldn't make one".

>> No.38027305

>>38027264
>Is it good at what it does?

It couldn't have been better then what it does.

>Is it better than 2e?

By a country mile.

>Is Mass Combat in Ex3 viable?

YES. Actually, bloody yes. It's amazing fun.

>> No.38027325

>>38027228

Because there's no ability to do that shit, except possibly a Sorcerous Working. You could, potentially, make the attempt with Wyld-Shaping Technique if you had the Wyld-Called Weapon upgrade, but if you don't care for going into the deep Wyld, you will never, ever be able to make shit out of wholecloth without homebrew.

>> No.38027328

>>38027106
I don't see why you couldn't. I'd say you would have to know what you are doing to build one due to the difference in building a living golem vs a inanimate weapon. The golem sorcery wise to me would feel more like creating a spirit or the likes. While going craft would be more clockwork magic.

Wryd shaping would honestly work better here though.

>> No.38027371

>>38027325
>Because there's no ability to do that shit, except possibly a Sorcerous Working.
I'd make it a pretty demanding Working. Celestial Circle, Ambition 3 or something like that.

>> No.38027373

>>38027269
Solars are pretty strong anon. Two dragon blooded probably won't be a challenge if they have experience or the dragon blooded is experienced. Otherwise you hit that one issue where "What does it matter if the solars are back if we can just bring out 20 dragon blooded and rape train everything due to having 20 half as strong solars."

>> No.38027421

>>38027371
Yeah. I agree there it should be harder then with craft especially depending on how they go about it.

>> No.38027426

>>38027269
We don't know the abilities of those DBs or the Solar. One of the problems with fiction vs game simulations--only the latter has stats we can look at.

>> No.38027460

>>38027269
Yeah. That's one of my big problems with it.

>> No.38027462

What's the general consensus on Black Claw Style?

>> No.38027487

>>38027373
You are a fucking moron. 2 EXALTED wouldn't be a challenge? For fuck's sake. The reason the solars matter are because they can do shit the DBs can't, not because of...for fuck's sake.

>> No.38027525

>>38027373
>Solars are pretty strong anon. Two dragon blooded probably won't be a challenge if they have experience or the dragon blooded is experienced.
Assuming about equal level of experience, two Dragon-Blooded absolutely should be a challenge. Not an insurmountable challenge, perhaps a challenge that is more likely to be overcome than not, but definitely a challenge. Besides, in this case the Solar seemed to be pretty green, as she didn't even know what she was, while the DBs had at least some experience.

>Otherwise you hit that one issue where "What does it matter if the solars are back if we can just bring out 20 dragon blooded and rape train everything due to having 20 half as strong solars."
This is a silly argument and it annoys me that people keep making it. The reason returning Solars are that dangerous and scary shouldn't be that one Solar is as tough as x Dragon-Blooded. It's because socially oriented Solars are amazing at getting people on their side and leading them against their enemies, because Solar Sorcerers have the potential to bring back Sorcerous miracles not seen since the First Age, including things like summoning Third Circle Demons, because Solar Craftsmen can build shit the rest of the world can't match, because a Solar general can turn a mob of peasants into an elite force in a bit over month and then lead that force with unmatched brilliance, because a super-stealthy Night Caste is super-stealthy and might be behind you right now, and for a whole bunch of other reasons, most of which have nothing to do with how many Dragon-Blooded one Solar can beat in personal combat.

>> No.38027552

>>38027462

Incredibly useful defensively, very potent if you know how to win grapples and exploit social combat, not so good at straight up winning fights if you can't set up good lockdown. Overall a highly worthy pick, and hands down the style with the juiciest plot hooks.

>> No.38027557

>>38027426
>We don't know the abilities of those DBs or the Solar. One of the problems with fiction vs game simulations--only the latter has stats we can look at.
That wasn't my point, exactly. It's more about a new player reading the fiction and getting the feel that Dragon-Blooded are supposed to be that much weaker and trying to treat them as such.

>> No.38027559

>>38027525
Well the fact that one Solar CAN defeat several Dragon-Blooded is also a perfectly valid reason to be afraid of them. I do however agree that they showed it happening with far, far too much casual ease in that intro fic. God DAMN it, Borgstrom.

>> No.38027568

THEY'RE REALLY DRAKES ARGUMENT
Cost: —
Type: Permanent
Mins: Essence 6
Terrestrial Exalted and other Essence users of (Ess - 5) or lower Essence are treated as Extras when in physical combat with you. Celestial Exalted and Third Circle Demons are immune to this effect.

>> No.38027585

>>38027525
No. That tells every Solar concept not revolving around leadership, craft, or sorcery that they're doing it wrong. Solars are fearsome because everything they do is mighty and amazing. They are indeed fearsome in part because of their unmatched combat potential.

>> No.38027600

>>38027487
If every exalted was a utter challenge then we hit that problem above.

"Why doesn't the realm just curbstomp heaven and creation with their 5000 exalts? Actually why is anything a challenge at all?"

Solar just exalted last tusday should have a hell of a time fighting against 2-3 middle age dragon blooded and should lose most of the time depending on situation.

On the other hand social mc social the dragon blooded with melee 2 who is only out of his cocaine cave due to his family wanting him to do slavery management probably shouldn't do nearly as well against the melee 5 essence 4 Solar even if he does bring out his friends.

Every exalted if different here anon why would they always need to be a challenge? During the prime of the wyrd hunt the solars themselves weren't much of a challenge to the amount of forces against them at once. So why would the dragon blooded always be a challenge no matter what?

>> No.38027609

>>38027559
>Well the fact that one Solar CAN defeat several Dragon-Blooded is also a perfectly valid reason to be afraid of them.
It absolutely is, and it should be possible for a combat-oriented Solar. Mostly I just meant that generally it is things other than combat Abilities that make Solars such a world-shaking, world-changing, status quo-breaking force. Melee shouldn't have as far-reaching and large-scale effects as clever use of Bureaucracy, War, Socialize and Presence. Most of the time, that is: there are times when one incredibly badass motherfucker in the right place can make history.

>> No.38027612
File: 1.78 MB, 2000x2200, Constipation Cure.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
38027612

>>38027568
I will find a way to strangle you over the internet. Or set one of these on you.

>> No.38027633

>>38027600
Because fuck you. That's really all you goddamn deserve, you fucking moron. You are strawmanning like a motherfucker and arguing not even slightly in good faith.

>> No.38027649
File: 364 KB, 700x990, 1377291869639.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
38027649

>>38026772

>what the hell is IRC?

KIDS THESE DAYS

>> No.38027651

>>38027585
>They are indeed fearsome in part because of their unmatched combat potential.
Certainly, but their combat potential is unmatched as far as it is not matched by INDIVIDUAL Exalts of other types. There is no reason why Solars should be able to take on hordes of Dragon-Blooded. Even the mightiest Dawn should have his hands full with one Brotherhood, with no certainty of victory.

>> No.38027657

>>38027609
>Most of the time, that is: there are times when one incredibly badass motherfucker in the right place can make history.

Indeed, there MUST be such times, else Dawn Castes who don't invest heavily into War basically have absolutely no purpose except as red-headed stepchildren whose primary talents can never accomplish anything of worth.

>> No.38027669

>>38027525
>because Solar Sorcerers have the potential to bring back Sorcerous miracles not seen since the First Age, including things like summoning Third Circle Demons, because Solar Craftsmen can build shit the rest of the world can't match, because a Solar general can turn a mob of peasants into an elite force in a bit over month and then lead that force with unmatched brilliance, because a super-stealthy Night Caste is super-stealthy and might be behind you right now, and for a whole bunch of other reasons

And none of that matters because if dragon blooded are roughly equal early on they can just crush it with 30 guys while they have 5000.

It basically becomes "If 5 solars at the highest levels can fight off the greatest gods then why haven't the dragon blooded taken over heaven with 5000 of them yet?

>> No.38027690

You knob-gobblers realize you can (in a limited fashion) run DB vs Solar combat RIGHT NOW, right?

Just take the 11 god damn martial arts styles we have, make N Terrestrial-level masters and 1 Solar-level master and see how many it takes before N shifts from "sometimes wins" to "always wins."

>> No.38027699

>>38027651
I'd say an experienced and powerful Dawn should murder a Brotherhood -- minimum, the odds should be stacked heavily in his favor. But the world isn't set up such that there's one Brotherhood per Dawn, nor is a smart Brotherhood going to charge head-on at a Dawn without taking certain steps beforehand.

>> No.38027701

>>38027669
DBs are too busy swimming in heroin rivers and eating cocaine cakes with their 40 billion spirit whores and neomah legions to actually do shit. Cathak and MAYBE the Tepet remnants are the only ones who really care about martial prowess anymore.

>> No.38027717

>>38027651

If it's a brotherhood of elder deebs the great Dawn will have trouble. If it's just a bunch of average palookas he can and should defeat them more or less easily. If it's a Dawn who's fresh off his Exaltation facing trained but not amazing Macs, I think the party line is 'can win, but it's a close thing and requires a lot of smarts and luck'.

>> No.38027718

>>38027651
>Even the mightiest Dawn should have his hands full with one Brotherhood

Personally here I say it depends. Very young ones vs extremely old solar should probably have decent odds of him winning depending on the artifacts.

On the other hand yeah if it's 5 or so dragon blooded with real experience it should typically lead to the dawns death. Which is part of the fun part when you realize there is about 50 dragon blooded a Legion.

>> No.38027744

>>38027657
>Indeed, there MUST be such times, else Dawn Castes who don't invest heavily into War basically have absolutely no purpose except as red-headed stepchildren whose primary talents can never accomplish anything of worth.
That is true. I just feel that the most of the time accomplishments of a Dawn focusing on personal combat should be more local - not lesser, but more local - than those of more socially oriented Exalted. Of course, these accomplishments could involve keeping those more socially oriented Circlemates alive when the Wyld Hunt comes a-knocking, which is kind of a big deal despite not in itself being world-shaking. I guess what I want is that a Dawn can't slaughter armies on his own - not large ones, anyways - and can't solve everything with his daiklave but is without peer when violence on a scale smaller than armies is called for. Which, in a game like Exalted, probably happens quite often.

>> No.38027775

>>38027701
That makes it even worse because it makes them all look incompetent. Some of them should be since they are all individual. But at a certain point it starts tipping into the nonsensical.

>> No.38027798

>>38027744
>I just feel that the most of the time accomplishments of a Dawn focusing on personal combat should be more local - not lesser, but more local - than those of more socially oriented Exalted.
Fuck you.

>> No.38027799

>>38027744
A Dawn leading a trained army should beat a Dawn who is simply a personally awesome combatant. 10 out of 10 times.

The personal combat Dawn has the advantage of being one man who can exercise force like that. One man is immensely easier to move and position than an army. You can bring one man with you into a meeting, you can't fit your army in there. One man can head into an ancient ruin and handle the monsters within; you can't fit an army in there.

One man can sneak into your bedroom. An army can't.

Combatant Dawns don't have the world-shaping power of their broad-scope peers, but they have unmatched power on this personal scale and it can be leveraged with enormous ease and immediacy.

>> No.38027802

>>38027744
I'm fine with Dawns taking out armies on their own, but not armies of seasoned Terrestrial Exalted. While I get what you're saying about local not necessarily meaning lesser, I think there ought to be a bit more opportunity for Dawns. The Caste shouldn't feel more constrained in its agency than the others in any way, I think.

>> No.38027816

>>38027669
>It basically becomes "If 5 solars at the highest levels can fight off the greatest gods then why haven't the dragon blooded taken over heaven with 5000 of them yet?
For one, Creation is pretty nice, no need going through the trouble of conquering Heaven. More importantly, there are a fuckload of gods in Yu-Shan. There are plenty of powerful gods, and more than plenty lesser gods. How many Exalts it takes to beat up UCS isn't really relevant, because there is much, much more to Heaven than the Incarnae.

>> No.38027820

>>38027744
Can't really agree there. If some Dawn wants to go full Samson and murder armies or charge into a foes lines himself and crush everything he should have the power to do so.

It should be pretty extreme but Lu Bu types are always around. On the other hand a heavy social guy can just get his buddy the Sid and his other buddy the Abyssal to jump you.

>> No.38027840

>>38027802

In other words, a Dawn should be able to pull a Big Boss and half-run the world, but it shouldn't be through anything but his direct personal effort. The other Exalts can afford to be more indirect. Something like that?

>> No.38027850

>>38027098
Yeah, took note of that. I think Essence 2 might be sufficient, or could go Supernal again.

>> No.38027852

>>38027568
>>38027802

PLAY A REAL EXALTED NEXT LIFE PRANA
Cost:-
Type: Permanent
Mins: Essence 6
Prerequisites: The're Really Drakes Argument
When facing more than one Terrestrial Exalted in combat, they all form a single battlegroup.

>> No.38027872

>>38027798
If you think that a lone swordsman should work on the same scale as a Dawn Cast general who has invested in War and social Abilities and gone through the trouble of raising and training his own army, then fuck you. That would be retarded.

>>38027799
I agree fully with this.

>>38027802
>I'm fine with Dawns taking out armies on their own, but not armies of seasoned Terrestrial Exalted.
I'd prefer lone Dawn's contribution to combat being less about defeating the army and more about seeking out officers and heroes of that army and defeating them. This should influence the battle as a whole but not to the degree where strategy becomes unnecessary and War useless. I guess things like that would usually be modeled as Magnitude damage against the battlegroup, though.

>> No.38027875

>>38027840
Well, it CAN be indirect for a Dawn too if said Dawn DOES choose to go with Supernal War and be the Ultimate General of Ultimate Destiny, but I feel that Ultimate General of Ultimate Destiny shouldn't be the ONLY legitimate way for a Dawn to end up shaking the pillars of the world.

>> No.38027902

>>38027875

Yeah, pretty much. If you can't ride off into the sunset to the tune of something like this and come back to your family and friends bloodsoaked and victorious, I'd feel like one of Exalted's promises would ring a bit hollow.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=U5X_Dd_6Czk

>> No.38027914

>>38027799
If a Dawn leading a trained army is on even terms with a person combat focused Dawn, then there is no point in having armies. Personal prowess becomes by far the superior option because it doesn't have the myriad logistical problems that armies bring with them while still being just as effective.

>> No.38027937
File: 473 KB, 297x212, 1365575805459.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
38027937

>>38027852

>> No.38027942

>>38027872
>If you think that a lone swordsman should work on the same scale as a Dawn Cast general who has invested in War and social Abilities and gone through the trouble of raising and training his own army, then fuck you. That would be retarded.

Fuck you for thinking that being a lone swordsman is not just as incredibly cool. Fuck this idea that you have to "work for fun", doing campaigns worth of legwork to start to be actually "relevant to history". I'm sitting down at the table to have fucking fun and be fucking legendary at what I want to do, no matter what that is.

Fuck you buddy. You are the fucking cancer of Exalted.

>> No.38027945

>>38027914
Bingo.

>> No.38027950

>>38027914
Correct. This is why I said the general should beat the warrior ten times out of ten, assuming he can apply his army to the problem.

The warrior, meanwhile, should not permit the army to surround and gank him as an individual. He's more mobile, he's harder to track, he can quit the field and slam into them later when they're camping or moving through difficult terrain or something similar.

It shouldn't be a slaughter of the Dawn. The Dawn should die -- but he should die atop a mountain of corpses.

>> No.38027955

>>38027872
>Samson killing 1000 men is retarded

Of course having an army is a big thing. But it shouldn't be the only thing. The dawn having the power of an army and being able to move anywhere is nice and all.

On the other hand the dawn with an army fighting against him will win due to the dawn having to fight another one and an army. But just he army alone shouldn't be a autowin if it gets huge enough.

>> No.38027966

>>38027914

Or it can just be good at certain specific things and bad at others. Like, y'know, every single fighting style except jack of all trades Solar Melee. If the only reason to play War is because it beats the most munchkinny personal scale combo of tricks you can find, then it's failed at its job of enabling the power fantasy of a great general.

>> No.38027968

>>38027942
No, you are, you stupid fucknugget.

Mash >>38027914 into your goddamn empty skull a few times, you thick fuck. You are the literal cancer that I'm glad they cut out of Exalted with a burning knife.

>> No.38027982

>>38027820
Well...it depends on the size of the army, I guess. Looking at the rules for battlegroups, I guess I don't have anything against a Dawn being able to take on even a Size 5 battlegroup. When it comes to really huge armies, ones modeled as multiple battlegroups, a Dawn should only be able to engage one of them at once, leaving the rest of the army do whatever it is doing. Point being that no number of soldiers can make a Dawn seem insignificant but a Dawn can't just stop an army of any size from carrying out its objectives, either. Gathering and leading armies should still be something Solars might want to do, and War should be worth investing in. This doesn't work so well if a lone Dawn can destroy any army, regardless of its size or other considerations.

>> No.38027986

>>38027914
>>38027950

You're missing the fucking point. You have an army because having an army is fucking cool, and having a badass army is even cooler. So if you're the kind of guy who likes having a badass army, your army is badass. But your flavor of fun is not more relevant or more worthwhile than Solar Samson.

>> No.38027989

>>38027968
So edgy anon!

>> No.38028003

>>38027986
It in fact, is, you worthless excuse for a sub-human.

Your 'fun' would render the game just stupid.

It would RUIN THE FUCKING GAME.

>> No.38028004

>>38027968
No, faggot, you're the cancer because you forgot that Exalted is a fucking game and everything you do should be fun and cool. It should not be a chore. Your fun is not inherently better than some other guy's fun because you have to do imaginary fucking logistics.

>> No.38028013

>>38027989
>I can't argue with fact so I'll just whine about edge

Yeah, sure.

>> No.38028014

>>38027914

Or, here's a crazy thought: the huge army Dawn and the personal-prowess Dawn are doing categorically different things, both in the course of a campaign and in any individual fight, meaning which one comes out "superior" to the other is a question of tactics and drama, not slamming the hugest number into the other less-huge number.

Kind of like, y'know, how THE OTHER FOUR Dawn abilities interact with each other.

>> No.38028018

>>38028003
It ain't stupid. It is, in fact, the mythology that inspired the entire premise. Heroes slay scores of men, they defeat armies, and these are things of legend that shape the world.

>> No.38028019

>>38027914
Let me turn this backwards on you for a second though. If the one true way to relevance as a Dawn Caste is through War, with all other permutations of the Dawn Caste being largely constrained to being supporters for others and only effecting change on a relatively small scale...I dunno, man, it just doesn't seem right to me. I feel like there can be this happy balance where a lone swordsman type character can be a world-shaking hero without necessarily diminishing the importance and value of the Ultimate General of Ultimate Destiny.

>> No.38028031

>>38028004
It is fun and cool.

The problem is, you think YOUR fun and cool should overide a working game.

Because the game BREAKS if what you want is possible. The devs made the proper choice in this, and I'm glad you are so shitter-shattered.

>> No.38028035

>>38027986
Don't be such a faggot, anon. It's not about "relevance" or "worth". The army is capable of exerting more power over a broader area than the individual.

The individual can be applied with greater ease, is more mobile, has less upkeep, is less suspicious, etc., etc. In an open field, the legions of the Realm with their Dragon-Blooded officers will smash a Dawn coming at them solo. He'll bloody their nose, kill tons of them, but he will -- and should -- die.

But he's an individual. Why is he charging suicidally at a legion? He should fuck off. Hit them when they camp for the night. Drop in under cover of darkness, snap the neck of an officer, and fuck off. Murder the soldiers that quickly and in a panic organize, and before the legion's formations come to full bear fuck off again in ways they can't pursue.

The value of an individual is not that it can exert more force than a group.

>> No.38028048

>>38027982
Yeah now that I can agree with. I mean if it gets really extreme the dawn will lose. 3-4 size 5 battle groups and the 150 chosen champions of the strongest gods in a three thousand mile radius and carjack and half the infernal hosts would obviously win. On the other hand I don't really think that even fighting 1000 men should lead to auto retreat if you want to play say gilgamesh showing off his bow.

>> No.38028064

>>38028035
>Drop in under cover of darkness, snap the neck of an officer, and fuck off. Murder the soldiers that quickly and in a panic organize, and before the legion's formations come to full bear fuck off again in ways they can't pursue.

That says more "Night Caste" to me.

>> No.38028066

>>38028018
And you avoid the whole point. Grand job.

It would produce a broken game, where armies are worthless, and anyone that invests in one is an idiot.

A problem 2e had. A problem they took the boots to. And I'm very, very glad they did.

>> No.38028068

>>38027986
Problem: My fucking cool army can't go into or be used in all the places that Solar Samson can, but Solar Samson is useful in every circumstance that my army is. By making Solar Samson equivalent in strength to the army, you're making his flavour of fun more relevant and worthwhile than mine. In order for both to be equally relevant and worthwhile, you need the army to be superior in something, namely field battles, to offset the fact that Solar Samson is inherently superior in his being able to go places the army can't.

>> No.38028070

>>38028035
Fuck you. That is not how every myth works, and Exalted is about playing mythic heroes. You're literally trying to justify the antithesis of Exalted.

>> No.38028075

>>38028035
Fighting a realm legion solo is an entire different thing then fighting 1000 normal men solo. Mostly because that's like 4-5 size 5 battle groups with 50 exalts.

>> No.38028078

>>38028048
>n the other hand I don't really think that even fighting 1000 men should lead to auto retreat if you want to play say gilgamesh showing off his bow.
Thank fucking god you're not writing the game, otherwise it wouldn't be playable.

>> No.38028094

Niggers, Solars can fight armies and win. What the fuck are you talking about?

>> No.38028110

>>38028070
Eat my dick, bitch.

Guess what's in the fucking books?

Hint: It's not what YOU want because what YOU WANT ISN'T WORKABLE AS A FUCKING GAME.

>> No.38028115

>>38027875
>but I feel that Ultimate General of Ultimate Destiny shouldn't be the ONLY legitimate way for a Dawn to end up shaking the pillars of the world.
Something like kicking the ass of a major god or a similar entity should be both doable for Dawns and world-shaking, or at least Direction-shaking.

>>38027942
Being a lone swordsman is cool. A lone swordsman doing lone swordsman things which are largely distinct from warlord things is cool. A lone swordsman being like an army unto himself and acting on the same scale, only he doesn't need an army for it, does not make lone swordsman more cool. Local is not a synonym for lesser. Having a duel with Ahlat is local in a way invading Harborhead isn't. Being able to have a duel with Ahlat instead of being beaten to pulp with him is pretty damn impressive, though. Actually defeating him goes beyond impressive. It is something the general with his army probably couldn't do. It is impressive in an entirely different but no lesser way than conquering Harborhead.

>> No.38028121

>>38028094
MORTAL armies. not armies OF exalted, or armies CONTAINING exalted

the realm sends the 5000 man levy with a single DB officer in charge, they get slaughtered to a man.

the realm sends an actual legion of 10k troops with like 50 DBs? the Solar gets toasted.

>> No.38028125

help me /tg/, because I fail to see the bad side of a Hidden-dagger Axe. It seems to be just better then a Wrackstaff, like, it's a Wrackstaff + Why would anyboldy not pick it over Wrackstaff?

>> No.38028127

>>38028094
I think the shit slinging is about whether a Solar specced out purely for combat should be more, equal, or less powerful than a Solar with a badass army of Tiger Warriors.

>> No.38028128

>>38028070
Armies mattering is not the antithesis of Exalted. Heroes don't shit all over everything around them. You can be an amazing, mythic hero without trivializing and rendering impotent enormous investments of time and energy.

You can be Solar Musashi and cut your way through 20 men. You can even cut your way through 100. When you're facing 500 organized men being directed by a Dawn, though.. why should you win? You have so many advantages, so many areas where your abilities are superior -- why should the one thing the army's good for be a place you also get to win?

That's not how armies work. It's not how they're supposed to. It's not how they will.

>> No.38028143

>>38028125
Because of flavor.

But yeah, that's a bit of a problem. Look at chain-shirt and breastplate. Same thing.

>> No.38028155

>>38028066
Not really? Just because an army isn't an autowin doesn't mean it's not absurdly useful to have.

Mid tier dawn with 5000 men will beat down a high tier dawn every time almost. It's not that armies don't need to be powerful it's that they shouldn't be so powerful that Samson or achilles or Gilgamesh's first reaction is to run away the moment an army shows up before the enemy heroes even show up.

>> No.38028162

>>38028121
>>38028127
Lone Solars can actually be fairly competitive until the size of the battle group gets all the way to the upper end of the spectrum. You guys are arguing about an actual non-point.

>> No.38028175

>>38028128
>enormous investments of time and energy.
You mean the fun shit you wanted to do when you signed up to be a War focused character? You're asking to be rewarded twice over for something you wanted to do.

>> No.38028176

>>38028155
And like I said to the last idiot that said that: Thank fucking god the devs disagree with that moronic thought.

>> No.38028185

>>38028066
And yet like one guy can defeat 100 men in 3E. One mortal at that.

>> No.38028191

>>38028125
>>38028143

Tags don't really make or break weapons, they're just useful side-additions.

I experimented with seeing what kind of weapon was made if it had ALL tags that weren't contradictory, and the only notable interactions were a Light weapon + powerful, and long range + the ability to shove people back.

Everything else was mostly cute flavor.

>> No.38028193

>>38028175
No, dumbass. Don't be a dumbass. You dumbass.

>> No.38028201

>>38028121
Yeah but the solar probably ALSO gets toasted if the realm just sends 50 DBs so again why even have an army at that point

>> No.38028206

>>38028175
Daww, little babby mad that armies matter.

Maybe if you pulled your head out of your fucking ass and addressed the arguments, you'd realize what a moron you're being.

>> No.38028207

>>38028176
And yet in the playtest they decided one mortal killing 100 men alone was fine.

>> No.38028220

>>38028185
One mortal could do that at one point of the development of the game, to be more accurate.

>> No.38028223

>>38028185
Post sheet.

>> No.38028226

>>38028176
See
>>38028185

Talented and lucky Mortals can attack large battle groups and win. You guys are arguing about a point that is demonstrably settled. Both armies and super warriors matter, and both are real threats to one another.

>> No.38028230

>>38028207
One elite-tier mortal (Legion of Silence, IIRC) breaking the morale of 100 loosely organized bandits.

No one is saying individuals cannot fight battlegroups.

>> No.38028239

>>38028207
Prove it.

Post the sheet, post the exact steps of how this happens.

>> No.38028240

>>38028019
Lone swordsmen *are* world-shaking heroes! They're just not world-shaking heroes because they make armies utterly irrelevant. A Solar general shakes the world by raising an army and defeating the evil tyrant in the field of battle. A Solar swordsman shakes the world by walking into the tyrant's palace and then slaying him and his royal guard in an epic duel in the throne room. If the Solar swordsman is stupid enough to challenge the tyrant and his entire army... then he dies, if he wanted to win a field battle he should have brought an army with him. The idea that a Solar swordsman should be able to defeat armies with by hitting them with his sword is as ludricous as a Solar courtesan defeating armies by stabbing them with her dagger. No, she defeats an army by seducing the general and stabbing *him* with her dagger after poisoning all his officers.

>> No.38028253

>>38028143
I don't much mind chain shirts being identical to breastplates.

I REALLY mind Articulated Plate being mechanically identical to Plate-And-Chain when it fucking says right there in the fluff text it's more protective and less fatiguing and COSTS MORE.

Additional gear tags are pretty much the first thing on my homebrew list, I think.

>> No.38028255

>>38028226
Yeah, no.

Prove it. Right fucking now, or shut your goddamn mouth.

>> No.38028263
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38028263

>>38028003
Jegus dude, that's quite a lot of salt you got there.

>K4RK4T, YOU SHOULD GO TO B3D B3FORE YOU BLOW 4NOTH3R 4N3UR1SM.

>P1C R3L4T3D, 1T'S YOUR STUP1D F4C3

>> No.38028284

>>38028263
>I have no counter-arguments, so I shall continue to shitpost in desperate hope to deflect

>> No.38028293

>>38028240
Plus the general can't bring in his army to grab the world-saving artifact from the ancient ruin, and it won't be very useful up against a behemoth, and at best he'll bring his elite squadron of the best of the best if he needs to do anything in the wyld

>> No.38028304

>>38028284
>I have no counter arguments to start with other then "You stupid I smart."

>> No.38028320

>>38028239
>>38028255
Go ask Holden for it.

>> No.38028321

>>38028263
this is a bad post, you are not helping

>> No.38028323

>>38028284
I'm not even involved in y'all's stupid debate. I shit-post for the beauty of it.

>> No.38028344

>>38028304
>Continues to avoid the argument
>Shitposting intensifies
Yeah, as expected.

>>38028320
So, you have exactly nothing. Well, thanks for telling us we can ignore you.

>> No.38028371

>>38028206
Honestly, I feel like there is some really weird way of thinking behind some of the arguments in this discussion. Like combat prowess is some concrete, clearly quantifiable attribute that stays the same from situation to situation, rather than something context-dependent. It should be kind of obvious that armies and individual champions do partially different things, shine in different situations and in different ways, and that they simply can't be directly compared to see which is better overall. Sometimes you want to invade a country, and that's a job for an army. Sometimes you want to stop an army, and that's usually a job for an army of your own, though depending on situation and the size of the attacking army a really fucking awesome champion might do the job. Sometimes you want a guy to fight a Third Circle Demon surrounded by aura that melts mortal and what the fuck is your army going to do then? A single Dawn is literally infinitely more "powerful", that is useful, in that situation than any mortal army. Sometimes you want to retrieve an artifact from a place where you can't bring an army or have a small group of people sneak somewhere and do things that require utmost badassery or settle a conflict with a duel between champions rather than wholesale slaughter and in all those situations single Dawn is more useful than a hundred thousand mortal soldiers and how many of those soldiers the Dawn could take on at once has absolutely nothing to do with it.

>> No.38028373

>>38028240
>>38028293

You've said the exact reverse about them being world-shaking heroes. Every Exalt is going to have personal combat skills which can do this. To expound upon this, you're designing combats where only the combat focused character is going to make a meaningful contribution, which then makes everyone else basically sit out. This is just as bad.

>> No.38028387

>>38028321
Apologies, Anon. It certainly was very tempting.

As for the debate at hand, well now that I've actually payed attention to the matter, I have to say I agree with >>38028014 . I fail to see how that's even debatable.

>> No.38028412

>>38028344
It was playtest data. You want me to roll up a mortal, get a dicebot, and then roll enough experimental combats (with fresh players on either side) with provable timestamps to illustrate the odds?

>> No.38028452

>>38028412
If you make an argument it's possible? Yeah. Prove your fucking argument, or shut up. One or the other.

>> No.38028467

I mean fucking seriously. Am I missing something here?

The basic premise of collapsing the massive 2E weapon/armor list seems sound, even if the stat bonus choices are perhaps arguable. Creation is fucking massive, there are a whole Empress' Buttload of different cultures, so it follows that there should be an equally ridiculously large number of different styles of weapons and armor. After all, ancient medieval Europe alone produced a large portion of the styles in the 2E list, and that's tiny and new in comparison to Creation. It's a reasonable idea to collapse them down into categories and say "basically all those different leather oddments with bits on them/light links/single-plate armors do the same" and then add in tags to allow players to personalize theirs. That's all fine, I get that.

So why, then, would they introduce a set of specific armors and weapons, WITH THE FUCKING PRICES, and say "oh and by the way these are the ones you can get and fuck you if you want there to be any kind of mechanical benefit for having the more expensive kind"?

It doesn't make any sense. I'm convinced I must be missing something. What is it, anon? Set my addled mind at rest.

>> No.38028511

>>38028452
Or you can just do basic probability math. A mortal with high combat stats can be rolling over 10 dice for combat actions. This is on par with small to medium sized battle groups.

>> No.38028530

You know what really really amuses me?

This thread is constantly filled with moaning and whining about how unbearable the devs are, and how fucking terrible the people on rpg.net and the OPP forums are.

Yet none of us seem to be fazed by our own douchebaggery.

>> No.38028550

>>38028530
4chan has always been bad at self-awareness. Any antagonistic individual is externalized as an Invading Other and thus dismissed.

>> No.38028573

>>38028530
Hey, we're terrible in a completely different way than rpgnet and the onyx path forums

>> No.38028574

>>38028467
I'm sorry, my brain keeps farting half-way through your message.

Could you rephrase your problem in a less litterary way?

>> No.38028579

>>38028530
>Yet none of us seem to be fazed by our own douchebaggery.
You have no idea how fazed by my own douchebaggery I am when I take a break for discussions like these and come back to read what I've written. Not the sentiments themselves, they are things I stand behind, but it is easy to get overly confrontational in a way that's pretty embarrassing in retrospect.

>> No.38028593

>>38028530
Hell no, /exg/'s completely full of unbearable faggots, autistics, and all-around drooling retards. Its saving grace is that it's mostly unmoderated and we can condemn those people without being punished for it. The place never devolves into hugbox.

>> No.38028607
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38028607

>>38028511
DEX 5, Melee 5, Specialty (fight battle groups), that's 11 dice for offense and a Parry of 5, I think?

>> No.38028632

>>38028550
I generally see a reaction of more "yeah that's the price you pay for some of the good things that come out of an anonymous imageboard"

>> No.38028648

>>38028607
And that's before adding in weapon accuracy to withering attacks.

>> No.38028671

>>38028607
>>38028648
Yep. Pretty good. You can definitely make a mortal warrior who is as dangerous as 100 men.

>> No.38028675

>>38028373
Not at all. If single people are capable of changing the world, as is Exalted's design philosophy, then people capable of fighting or killing those people are ~also~ capable of changing the world. That doesn't necessarily mean that they're capable of taking on entire armies single-handedly even if that isn't their focus, but they're still quite capable of fighting people who ~do~ focus on that.

In a video game, you can generally take on several groups of common enemies in rapid succession without depleting your resources too much, then fight a much tougher boss to advance the plot. Exalted works the same way; if a Deathlord uses necromancy to turn an entire city into his zombie slaves, you can avoid the curse, fight or sneak into his citadel, defeat him and lift the curse. You can't kill all the zombies on your own without being overrun, but you don't need to.

That's the way I like my Exalted. Individuals are powerful enough to make big changes, and powerful enough to do something about those changes, but not powerful enough to make them irrelevant.

>> No.38028685

>>38028632
No, I often see "Well, you would say that, you cancerous faggot, go back to OPP/RPGnet/pol/reddit/Other where you belong".

>> No.38028699

>>38028632
that being said we DO have a tendancy towards "anyone that doesn't agree with me is a lone samefag, every single post that agrees with me is a separate individual."

>> No.38028726

>>38028699
I'm a lone samefag and so is my wife

>> No.38028731

>>38028607
Keep in mind that battlegroups get bonus to most things from Size and that filling the Magnitude track once does not guarantee victory. Defeating battlegroups is possible for badass individuals but battlegroups are still plenty scary.

>> No.38028736

>>38028685
I don't know I've posted that exact sort of thing and i never actually thought they were "foreign," it's an insult.

>> No.38028754

>>38028675
>That's the way I like my Exalted. Individuals are powerful enough to make big changes, and powerful enough to do something about those changes, but not powerful enough to make them irrelevant.
This is how I want it to be as well.

>> No.38028758

>>38028607
(5+5+1)/2 round up, +1 Defense from mundane medium weapon. 7 Parry.

Attack pool 5+5+1 +2 accuracy from mundane medium weapon. 13 withering attack pool. 5 Strength + 9 weapon, 14 withering damage.

Soak 5 Stamina +7 Heavy armor. 12 soak.

>> No.38028763

>>38028579
That's why I like being anon, personally. There's no name to attach to it.

So sure, you make an ass of yourself. But you can try again tomorrow.

>> No.38028764
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38028764

>>38028671
>Yep. Pretty good. You can definitely make a mortal warrior who is as dangerous as 100 men.

Awesome.

>> No.38028789

The question was never "Can an individual fight a battlegroup?" The answer to that is a self-evident yes. Of course they can.

The question was "Should an individual combat-oriented Dawn defeat the trained battlegroup of another Dawn focused on making his army amazing?" And the answer to that is a no. The combatant Dawn's strength lies elsewhere. He should not equal the general in an open battle.

>> No.38028819

>>38028789
The answer should be "Neither want to fight the other". The General may win, but his army will be in tatters. The Swordsman might destroy an army, but he will not live to enjoy his victory.

>> No.38028852

>>38028819
No, that's awful. It should not be mutually assured destruction. The general should annihilate the swordsman. His army will have casualties, but it won't be in tatters.

>> No.38028892

>>38028852
If the combat-Dawn actually ends up fighting the army rather than just cutting the head off the hydra then he clearly doesn't deserve the Exaltation and I hope his next incarnation is less completely retarded.

>> No.38028910

>>38028852
Luck and situational variables should affect this. Things shouldn't be so clear-cut that the swordsman will always inevitably lose. Odds should be heavily stacked against him, though.

>> No.38028915

>>38028852

Why exactly? If a supreme solar Meleeist meets the ultimate Brawl clasher, the fight ends in a 'we will kill each other or win by the skin of our teeth, let's chat and resolve this some other way' scenario. The same should go for the general and the warrior.

>> No.38028989

>>38028892
By same logic you could say that if the Dawn general actually ends up in direct combat instead of sitting behind his army then he clearly doesn't deserve his Exaltation.

>>38028915
Brawl, Melee, Thrown and Archery work on the same scale. They are different approaches to same basic goal, which is personally inflicting violence on your enemies. War is something different. It works on a different scale, does different things and isn't directly comparable to personal combat Abilities.

>> No.38028996

>>38028915
Brawl and Melee are both individual styles of combat. They are applicable in roughly all the same situations and accomplish all the same aims. War is on a different scale, and in a direct conflict it should win. Its downside is that you simply can't use War to its full potential in a whole lot of situations.

>>38028892
Killing the leader is possible, but should be enormously difficult. You should not be able to reliably bypass a battlegroup.

>>38028910
No, I'm comfortable with it being so stacked the swordsman will always inevitably lose. The general simply cannot apply himself in a ton of situations the swordsman can. There's no reason for the swordsman to have a shot on the general's turf -- a good swordsman will avoid that conflict.

>> No.38029079

>>38028989
>>38028996


When mass combat and personal combat both operate the same way, and interact directly, this is most emphatically not the case. We can argue that dramatically they work differently, but at the mechanical level, they are just different weapons you swing. Same as using Survival or Performance to kill your enemies through the appropriate charms, really.

>> No.38029083

>>38028996
Well, mechanically speaking, it just ISN'T stacked that high as far as I can tell--Solar-led Tiger Warrior battle groups are epically awesome, but they're not unbeatable by a dedicated lone army-destroyer Dawn Caste. They're a supreme and worthy challenge for such a warrior, but near as I can tell from the numbers alone, he MAY yet win.

>> No.38029137

>>38029079
You don't swing a battlegroup. They operate independently of you. You're just wrong, anon.

>>38029083
If battlegroups have not been balanced such that a Dawn-trained and led group doesn't overcome a solo Dawn warrior that is a failure in balance, as without that essential group > individual feature, groups are a stupid, dumb, awful investment, and every XP into War is wasted XP that should have gone into combat.

>> No.38029169

>>38028758
Even mortals round up?

>> No.38029178

>>38029169
I think they do now.

>> No.38029232

>>38029137

Hahahaha, you think that's the case? If you invested in War, your actions are going to be focused on belting out Orders left and right, until and if your group gets wrecked. In practice you have just the one action, which the battlegroup takes. If anything, Survival has a better claim to independent operation, since it and Ride both actually take significantly different dual actions instead of just one buff action of some sort and an active action.

>> No.38029255

>>38029137
I can tell you that they certainly have a heavy advantage, just not a perfect one. If that isn't enough for you, I would suggest tweaking Solar War a touch.

>> No.38029301

>>38029232
You can influence your battlegroup with commands that give it bonus dice, but it's emphatically not a weapon you wield. If you die, your battlegroup does not disappear. If you are immobilized, they do not cease to swing.

They're autonomous and subordinate to you. Not at all like a weapon.

>>38029255
I'll have to see it in use a few times first, but if the advantage of battlegroups isn't sufficient, yeah, I'll jack up Solar War some (and the base rules). An elite group with elite leadership should stomp an elite individual.

>> No.38029349

>>38028758
Here are the stats for a Size 3 (over a hundred) militia, brigands, what have you. They have

Size 3, Defense 2, Soak 9, Attack 9d for 14 damage (min 2), Magnitude 10
Size 2, Defense 2, Soak 8, Attack 8d for 13 damage (min 2), Magnitude 9
Size 1, Defense 2, Soak 7, Attack 7d for 12 damage (min 2), Magnitude 8

With maxed out Wits+Awareness+Specialty our hero rolls 11 dice to join battle. That's 5.5 average, but we'll round up to give him good luck.

He starts with 6 initiative and goes first, moving in to attack the battle group. His attack pool is 13, for 6.5 average. 7 successes versus their defense 2, so 5 extra damage. He deals 14 base, so 19 dice that gets reduced by the group's soak of 9. He rolls five damage, halving the magnitude of the battle group. He can't leech this damage, but gains the +1 initiative.

Battle group attacks, 4.5 expected successes versus our parry of 7. Yeah, no. If they manage to hit us, our soak of 12 will reduce it to minimum damage. We can get hit three times initially, but we pretty much always hit them and gain +1 initiative to gain buffer against any random hits.

He repeats the attack, breaks the magnitude of the size 3 group and death spirals the group.

In fact, I'd say it's unlikely that a heroic mortal with high dexterity and stamina would lose to a hundred untrained and uncontrolled men.

Let's throw in the wrench, now. One of these assholes decides that he's the boss and separates from the group to bark orders at the group. He has Int/Cha 2 and War 2. Every success he rolls on the command roll gives +1 to all dicepool actions of the group, so +2 to those values normally. Suddenly 6.5 expected successes is a lot closer to our DV.

So yes, you can kill a hundred uncoordinated brigands with ease if you're at the top 5% of humanity.

>> No.38029442

>>38029349

To be honest I don't like the size values for 3e. I think I may use the 2e size table and increase the size limit from 1-10

Anything over a 4 or 5 will be rare anywho

>> No.38029478

>>38023222

Good luck ever building 5 N/A artifacts anyway.

>> No.38029490

>>38029349
>top 5% of humanity

Maxed out Wits, Dex, Melee and Awareness is not top 5%. Not even top 0.5%. But your point stands regardless.

Basically, Legendary Swordsman Dude will fuck up a hundred useless idiots in short order, but add one halfway decent commander and he's in trouble (and will probably have to find a way to corner the commander and fuck him up in person, as is the One True Way of such scenarios). This is a system working as intended. Good to see.

>> No.38029527

>>38029349
>So yes, you can kill a hundred uncoordinated brigands with ease if you're at the top 5% of humanity.
Someone with Ability 5, Attribute 5 is a bit more than at the top 5% of humanity. I mean, Attribute 3 represents noteworthy talent and Ability 3 a degree of skill above most professionals. Attribute 3, Ability 3 would be enough to make someone a rare, impressive individual. Attribute 5, Ability 5 +Specialty is being as good as it's humanly possible, literally the pinnacle of human potential. Guys like that should be rare as fuck, to the point where it is not guaranteed that there is even one mortal with Dex 5, Melee 5 alive at any given time.

>> No.38029559

We're crushing through these thread, wow. New one up here.

>>38029506

>> No.38031027

>>38027487

You realize there's more elder DBs than solars, right?

>> No.38031148
File: 46 KB, 403x403, SealOfApprovalAltered.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
38031148

>>38028789

The answer is "They should be equal". The guy with the super army should be fighting on equal ground as the guy without one, assuming they invested the exact same amount of resources (ie: EXP, artifacts, manses, what the fuck ever) into it. It should be an even match.

"B-b-but then it's not faaaiiiiir if army guy doesn't have his army!" you might say. Well, thats just it: He's built around having his fucking army everywhere. He shouldn't be without him. Generals just don't run the fuck off and leave their armies behind when theres a battle to be fought. They can be brought along damn near anywhere, unless you're trying to introduce plot reasons why they wouldn't be. In which case, how is that any different from plot reasons why the single fighter isn't going to be able to fight at full capacity, like his favorite sword being swiped or being caught with his pants down, poisoned, etc.

tl;dr Shit should be on even ground, combat-wise, no matter what you do, as long as the investment is the same.

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