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/tg/ - Traditional Games

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38016196 No.38016196 [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

Why does /tg/ hate Lawful Good?

>> No.38016208

Because we hate the alignment system in general.

>> No.38016224

Good characters are restricting, lawful characters are restricting. Lawful good is basically a cookie cutter.

>> No.38016236

partially this, also partially people (like probably 2-5 guys) looking for excuses to post pictures of that one anime and cause shitty argument threads

>> No.38016273

Honestly I was just wondering, I found playing Lawful Good characters was a fun time. I constantly hear hate about them. So I just wanted to get a general view on why.

>> No.38016275

Oh, it's you again

>> No.38016277


People either don't get how to play alignments, are anoyed by people who don't get how to play alignments, or they're annoyed by people trying to stir an argument about alignments.

>> No.38016300

>people trying to stir an argument about alignments.
Where do you think you are, OP?

>> No.38016341
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Oh fuck off you immature git.

Lawful good characters have to choose between being lawful and being good. That conflict is inherent to their alignment, and it makes for more interesting character development that whatever edgelord bullshit you play.

>> No.38016348
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But I love Lawful Good

>> No.38016374


You can be lawful and good. You just have to have a code that allow you to good, and do good according to the code.

>> No.38016384
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I also love me some Lawful Good

>> No.38016394

Then why is Decade in your picture?

>> No.38016405

>You can be lawful and good.

Yes, but not always. Not if a competent DM wants to make a more interesting story.

>> No.38016444
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/tg/ loves Lawful Good, paladins and how awesome they are come up in threads constantly.

>> No.38016473

Well, a character don't suddenly stop being good because they chose law over good, the same that they don't stop being lawful because they prefered doing good once.

Sometime I think people imagine alignments as if the characters were standing on a razor's edge, with only the choice to jump on either side or get cut in two. Or that the GM is ready with his finger on the "FALL" button, waiting for the moment the PC do something that's not absolutely LG.

>> No.38016493

>Sometime I think people imagine alignments as if the characters were standing on a razor's edge, with only the choice to jump on either side or get cut in two. Or that the GM is ready with his finger on the "FALL" button, waiting for the moment the PC do something that's not absolutely LG.

This, and the occasional DM that actually is doing that.

>> No.38016555

This is an unavoidable conclusion you'll reach from browsing /tg/, that's for sure.

Lawful Good also carries the connotation of "Lawful Stupid". The character will undoubtedly [try to] stand in the way of party shenanigans, because many parties aren't really keen on obeying laws unless the GM enforces a sense of accountability. Lawful Stupid gets in the way because it's also very likely the character will disagree with small misdemeanors, which is infuriating if something very good comes with a mild cost.

...and this would be the counterargument. Lawful Good might seem inane but one can create an interesting character out of it.

>> No.38016580

>Well, a character don't suddenly stop being good because they chose law over good

They'd still have done something immoral.

>the same that they don't stop being lawful because they prefered doing good once.

They would still have broken the law.

And in either case than involves conflict. I'm not talking about falling out of alignment here, just having to make hard decisions.

>> No.38016598
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Are you joking? /tg/ wanks over Lawful Good to no end.

>> No.38016626

Because tumblr needs to fuckoff and die. Fucking ifeminazis ruin everything with their political crap

>> No.38016629

Because /tg/ hates everything.

>> No.38016644

I don't think /tg/ hates lawful good. As far as I've ever seen, /tg/ loves lawful good, and paladins as well.

I personally dislike it because I've had bad experiences being in game groups with paladins. They usually wind up very disruptive.

>> No.38016664
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What about Lawful Neutral?

>> No.38016700

>Lawful good is basically a cookie cutter.

Yeah, but a cookie cutter that adventures are made to favor. L/G characters move the story along and are easy to play. If you're someone who's mainly in a game for the combat, L/G is a great choice. Plus if your L/G character gets fucked over you know somebody at the table made a mistake.

>> No.38016703


er, that

>> No.38016709

I don't play rpg to be a law abiding citizen and kiss asses of people higher in hierarchy than me. I have enough of this shit in real life.

>> No.38016728

>They'd still have done something immoral.
>They would still have broken the law.


A person isn't defined by one act. You can do something immoral and still be good. You can break the law and still be lawful. The thing is that you do what you can for it to not happen, and if it happen, you do what you can to make up for it.

God, this remind me of that guy the other day who somehow came up with the idea of "alignment entropy" and that all Paladins are destined to fall because they "accumulate evil actions" or something like that.

If you do good 100 times and evil once, you're still good. Unless the evil you did is equivalent or superior to any good you have done in term of gravity.

>> No.38016731

I've decided next character I'll play is a Paladin.
If the laws are wrong, then I'll change them.
If people are wrong I'll stop them.
If I am wrong, then God guide me.
And if God is wrong, then I will have done what I have felt is right, and will have no regrets.

>> No.38016748

Deal with it nerd

>> No.38016794

The only issue I see is how will you determine what laws are wrong or not
But that still sounds kinda fun

>> No.38016841

>You can do something immoral and still be good. You can break the law and still be lawful.

I didn't fucking say otherwise. I'm not attempting to quantify how much good makes someone good, or how much one must adhere to the law to be lawful. What I'm emphasizing here is having to make difficult choices.

>> No.38016848


We don't. As a general rule we don't hate anything with unanimity. The world is filled with a mix of highs and lows, things done well and others done very poorly. At least from the side of morality, there are just more catching points for argumentation.

>> No.38016864

Sorta sounds like you're playing a pope.

Make them laws, and make them righteous.

>> No.38016902

Are people harmed? The idea of a paladin is to uphold laws that help people. Law and order is there so that a paladin doesn't have to be.
If a law is only helping a few people exploit the weak, then that would be a bad law.

But in the end, a Paladin has to accept that they are human, (or at least not a diety) and imperfect. That doesn't mean that they shouldn't try to help though

Good first, then lawful. The lawful is usually because they feel lawful can do good.

>> No.38016936

That's Lawful Good. You have no concept of justice.

>> No.38016941

Why does there seem to be a group of people convinced the only alternative to lawful good is some variety of depraved edgelord? A true neutral character played as a basically alright person with basic moral principles (but no particular excess of conviction) isn't particularly edgy.

>> No.38016980

Many would see true neutral as a boring character with no direction. They aren't more good than evil, more law-abiding than free. You can make them an interesting character, yes, but some use it as a crutch to not have a character or to not make decisions.

>> No.38017004
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>> No.38017029
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People who stress out over Lawful Absolutism are sophomoric children.

"There's a burning orphan across the street but you'd have to jaywalk to get there WAT DO"

A Lawful alignment means you favor creation over destruction. You believe in a order to the universe and seek to preserve (and/or control) it. That's pretty much all it means. It in no way requires a higher degree of Autism than any other characteristic.

>> No.38017051

That reasoning seems very spurious. If the primary source of motivation and the primary hook of your character is their alignment, they're pretty much guaranteed to be an uninteresting character. The one-trick pony LG paladin is hackneyed and uninteresting if you don't add more to them than "cares about good and law."

>> No.38017081


A chaotic good wannabe revolutionary is a perfectly legitimate character choice, especially in a setting where monarchies (with all the potential they have for shit kings) are the rule. Neutral good is if anything less edgy than lawful good - it means doing good without caring about getting in trouble for it.

>> No.38017098

>broken the law

A lawful good character can execute the ruler in cold blood and wipe his arse with the law code, it does not stop him being lawful good if the ruler was evil and the laws unjust.

>> No.38017109

Someone post the image of Luffy from One Piece that describes a player's realization process of why Lawful Good is the best alignment.

>> No.38017124
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>Why does there seem to be a group of people convinced the only alternative to lawful good is some variety of depraved edgelord?

You say that as though most players don't go the neutral/chaotic route to live up the murderhobo role to its fullest.

Anyway, anyone who categorically rejects Lawful Good characters for being "simplistic" has clearly not matured past the "nothin personnel kid" edgelord mentality.

Any alignment can be well executed, but, as I've been saying, Lawful Good characters face more difficult moral decisions than the rest and that can make them the most interesting to play.

>> No.38017142

These fucking threads always come up because people don't have a concept of Unlawful Orders.

Seriously, if the people in charge of a PALADIN are like "rape that village and piss on the corpses", they're clearly not acting within the scope of their authority, and thus the order is unlawful. If the paladin is in a foreign land and the laws are all kinds of fucked up, I'm pretty sure the god of the LAWFUL GOOD paladin isn't gonna be too upset about you skirting the "all women must be raped with a pitchfork" statute.

Unless you're worshiping one of the Mechanus dieties, but they're all dicks anyway.

>> No.38017163

>Lawful Good characters face more difficult moral decisions than the rest and that can make them the most interesting to play.

Horse pucky. Any suitably well-developed character is going to have equally difficult moralistic choices. They just aren't the same, tired old dichotomy of law versus good that's baked into the lawful good alignment (which isn't even baked into the LG alignment anyway, since the lawful component can be expressed as adherence to any external code, not just the laws of a particular polity).

>> No.38017170

This! I was just about to post this! All of this!

>> No.38017172

>A person isn't defined by one act.

Didn't I fucking tell you already that I'm not attempting to quantify goodness or lawfulness already? Fuck's sake.

A Paladin facing a difficult moral conundrum can't come to an easy decision just by thinking "statistically, I'll still be good/lawful after doing this."

>> No.38017179

It's like people only know 3e's version of objective alignments instead of every other edition's version where lawful was just the idea of society > individual and good was selfless > selfish.

>anyone who categorically rejects Lawful Good characters for being "simplistic" has clearly not matured past the "nothin personnel kid" edgelord mentality.
I think it was AD&D 2e that had stuff like "If the concepts of alignment are too much for your more simple minded players, just tell them that LG means follows the law and pets kittens."
It actually had a surprising amount of "Some people are dumbasses so this is how you simplify alignments in a non-satisfying way to them". Sadly those simplistic versions seem to be the ones that people remember.

>> No.38017196

That shit is cringeworthy, though.

>> No.38017201
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>Implying Dredd isn't lawful neutral

>> No.38017202

>it means doing good without caring about getting in trouble for it.

You do not get lawful good do you. A lawful good character will break the law and risk getting in trouble just fine if its required, lawful =/= obeys the laws of where they happen to be. Anywhere even slightly evil or corrupt is going to get the obvious Paladin into all sorts of shit.

>living in a country where jaywalking is illegal

You chose this fate.

>> No.38017223


Okay, doing good without caring if it violates your order's code either. If you want to play pure good without the possibility of law (however defined) getting in the way, neutral good is your alignment.

>> No.38017224

When has a chaotic evil character ever had to make a difficult choice between being chaotic and being evil? Or are lawful neutral characters going to be inclined to be good at the expense of the law?

LG is more open to internal conflict, in the hands of a competent story teller.

Remember, it's not just about how the player develops the character, it's about what the DM puts them up against.

>> No.38017239

That depends on who is writing him.

>> No.38017262

>Mfw people in my group believe you have to follow laws even if they are wrong if you're lawful good

>> No.38017263

The internal conflicts of a lawful neutral or chaotic evil character would be based on their personal social mores and obligations. These would require actual effort to develop your character for them to become apparent. A lawful good character isn't guaranteed to see these kinds of conflicts without some development of their moral code either.

>> No.38017266

How would you do moral choices for chaotic/evil characters? Is there a way you can have them make hard decisions also? There are plenty choices like the "Orc baby" that are hard for Lawful Good but I want to see what would be hard for the other end of the spectrum.

>> No.38017273

People misinterpret what "Lawful" means.

Lawful doesnt mean you kiss the gub'ments ass or anything. It can mean you follow a strict code of ethics, you are a part of a mercenary band and have to adhere to their rules.

You could even be a fucking wrestler who follows a strict diet or workout.

The point is that the alignment system is shit and the concept behind it is too vague. Batman for example can be interpreted as Lawful Good or Chaotic Good depending on how you picture his methods.

He works in conjunction with the law. He follows his own code of ethics, and he stops crime = Lawful

He's a vigilante that uses terror and force to get his way and he doesn't follow the written law = Chaotic.

>So he's Neutral Good

We could make this argument about any character really. The point is that everybody has a little bit of Lawful, Chaotic, Good and Evil in them. I just think people don't like Lawful Good because they are edgy faglords who wish they were Chaotic Neutral but they live in their 'oppressive' parent's basement or work for a dickhole boss thus Lawful = Dick to them.

>> No.38017280
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>Implying that The Law isn't the purest form of good

>> No.38017285

>orc baby

Gygax solves that problem years ago. You raise them to the age of reason, convert them to your faith then execute them immediately so they cannot go back to their inherently evil ways.

>> No.38017300


The logic behind this is stupid.

>Gygax is god


>> No.38017302

The point of the lawful component is that you place some form of external expectation above your own personal mores. Be it the expectations of a god, your clan, or what have you. So if you're a wrestler following a strict diet and workout routine, you do it because it's what you're "supposed" to do, whereas a chaotic character doing so would be doing it because it's what they want to do.

>> No.38017304

I was just using that as an example of a moral choice for Lawful Good characters/Paladins. I'm asking about moral choices for Chaotic or Evil characters

>> No.38017320

>the logic behind this is stupid

Seems pretty sensible to me.

I suppose you could also castrate them and raise them as Eunuch shock troopers for the Church.

>> No.38017321

Commissioner Gordon is indisputably Lawful Good though, right?

>> No.38017322

>Is there a way you can have them make hard decisions also?

Yeah, easily. Find out what ideals they hold dear and what limits they possess. A chaotic character isn't bereft of morals or ideals, they're just entirely personally held.

>> No.38017360



>> No.38017382

A competent DM doesn't HAVE to use a world of black and grey or grey and gray, and if there's a paladin they don't HAVE to fall to make an interesting story.

It can be interesting to watch them manage to find solutions that are not obvious but manage to solve things in a way good and lawful, ESPECIALLY when it seems like it's only a choice between the two.

The real problem comes with a conflict IRL between the players and/or GM between how they want to play, and that is something that can be trouble no matter what it is, not just alignment.

>> No.38017429

>Is there a way you can have them make hard decisions also?
Yes, you can give players interesting choices without throwing the fucking trolley problem at them every week.

Alignment is a stupid system, and the law/chaos axis is absolutely fucking meaningless. A paladin who defies unjust laws is still considered lawful, even though he's essentially acting as a vigilante, which is a chaotic act. But he's really just doing whatever serves the greater good, so I guess you could say he's neutral good.

What the fuck would you even have to do to shift your alignment along the law/chaos axis?

>> No.38017438

Every properly developed character will have values they consider important that can serve as a source of conflict. Even a chaotic neutral with values based in Stirnerian egoism will have potential for internal conflict (for instance trying to hold to an egoistic ideal when an emotional entanglement with a friend or loved one is necessitating acting at the expense of your own happiness and self-interest).

>> No.38017507

I think motivation is a large part of it, which is where roleplaying comes in.

>> No.38017511


Well, I always wanted to see those characters who think that because they're stronger, they're justified in being horrible persons encounter someone with the same philosophy, but way stronger than them.


Not indisputably, but that's the usual interpretation. He's trying to bring order to Gotham because he believe making people follow the law will help people

>> No.38017626

LG: self-righteous no-fun-allowed moralist bound to ruin sessions for everyone
NG: just a very dumb and ridicolously naive person
CG: extremely annoying hippie, Robin Hood wannabe everybody wants to punch in the face
LN: mindless drone incapable of indipendent thought and owning original opinions
TN: perfectly fine, adjusted, sane individual
CN: bumbling retard, the party member who has needs special needs
LE: obsessive autist with tons of repressions, probably has social anxiety
NE: mentally ill sociopathic emo
CE: barely able of thought, a living sponge that randomly swings an axe has more personality and drools less too


>> No.38017661

One of these is not like the others. You know which one.

>> No.38017705

>TN: apathetic, useless do-nothing that allows the status quo to decay into chaos or be turned into despotism because they can't be bothered to do anything worthwhile

>> No.38017802
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You used wrong image.

>> No.38017804

I think all these mock up charts actually show that the D&D alignment setting works very well for a great many stories, where you have a set of laws or norms that are clear and stable enough that there's a reason to uphold them besides believing in them. You generally have to pick whether law means official law or "soft" norms but once you do it's pretty clear and it works for quite sophisticated works like, say, The Wire - there isn't a character on that show whose relationship with either the law or the unwritten rules of their society is not made extremely clear. This doesn't work in D&D because the setting doesn't have any norms that don't equate to their definition of good or evil anyway, nor any laws that stretch beyond the nearest village in a game about wandering mercenaries.

In other words it's D&D that's not sophisticated enough for the alignment grid, rather than the other way around.

So on the superhero front, either you look at early vigilante stories where superheroes are outside the law and thus chaotic - superman the CG champion of the oppressed masses, batman the CN masked avenger - or you look at the modern ones where there's a range of acceptable behaviour for a superhero which superman exemplifies, batman is kind of ambivalent about and, say, wolverine rejects.

>> No.38017839

This is why alignment system is gay.

>> No.38017864
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some people seem confused about what lawful and good mean, so let's have it from the source:

>Characters who believe in law maintain that order, organization, and society are important, indeed vital, forces of the universe. The relationships between people and governments exist naturally. Lawful philosophers maintain that this order is not created by man but is a natural law of the universe. Although man does not create orderly structures, it is his obligation to function within them, lest the fabric of everything crumble. For less philosophical types, lawfulness manifests itself in the belief that laws should be made and followed, if only to have understandable rules for society. People should not pursue personal vendettas, for example, but should present their claims to the proper authorities. Strength comes through unity of action, as can be seen in guilds, empires, and powerful churches.

>Good characters are just that. They try to be honest, charitable, and forthright. People are not perfect, however, so few are good all the time. There are always occasional failings and weaknesses. A good person, however, worries about his errors and normally tries to correct any damage done.

>Lawful Good: Characters of this alignment believe that an orderly, strong society with a well-organized government can work to make life better for the majority of the people. To ensure the quality of life, laws must be created and obeyed. When people respect the laws and try to help one another, society as a whole prospers. Therefore, lawful good characters strive for those things that will bring the greatest benefit to the most people and cause the least harm. An honest and hard-working serf, a kindly and wise king, or a stern but forthright minister of justice are all examples of lawful good people.

>> No.38017878

I don't understand the hype for this. It doesn't demonstrate anything besides the fact that the alignment system is a dumb mechanical restriction on character development, and that you're better off playing it loosely or ignoring it altogether. There's nothing that actually validates the idea that LG is a better alignment.

>> No.38017891

What is the point in attempting to place personal biased stereotypes as some form of psychological truth to a broken and yet flawed system that is interpreted differently due to the fact that there is no set defined "How one should act." for each alignment?

>> No.38017894

If Lawful good played out like being an Ally of Justice more often I'd like it a lot more.

>> No.38017944
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I don't.

>> No.38018029

Yeah, South Park was great example of that. Especially when Jesus wasn't beaten to bloody pulp only because him winning was part of Satan's scam.

>> No.38018147

Yes, especially since SP is such an impartial and totally not racist/discriminating and stereotypical show.

Seriously, if you took SP seriously, there's something wrong with you, please emasculate yourself.

>> No.38018238


>I don't like SP's message
>therefore you can't use a relevant example from it that has nothing to do with what I don't like about it
>and I'm going to tell you to castrate yourself, because I can't be a proper tumblrina without advocating self-harm

Fuck off.

>> No.38018279
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>Not even trying to deny SP's biasedness
>Telling someone who disagrees with him to fuck off
>Yeah, sure

You first, faggot.

>> No.38018290


>Not wanting bear pussy.

What a wiener.

>> No.38018327


Oh sorry, I should've said "castrate yourself" like a proper tumblrina.

I don't think South Park is all that biased - they make fun of everyone - but whether it is or isn't isn't really relevant to you getting butthurt over the example in question.

>> No.38018346

i do not hate it, but every time I see someone play it they always become Lawful neutral.

They stick to the law rather then the good part more.

>> No.38018643
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>> No.38019557

>Implying I'm butthurt
>Trying to use my insults against me
>Still insisting on tumbullshit

It's fun how you still try to defend your bullshit little idea that playing LG is not fun and whatnot. Go choke on a dick some more, faggot.

>> No.38020250


Captain America rebelled against the law during the Marvel Civil War when the bill passed was unjust. Is he truly Lawful Good or simply Neutral Good?

Does selective adherence to law still qualify as Lawful? For all intents and purposes Cap still resembled Lawful Good even though he did not follow that one specific unjust law (or other unjust laws).

>> No.38020329

Because they oppress the neutral (Read: Evil) characters trying to play spooky skeleton men.

>> No.38020331

He follows his code of morals for what is right and what is wrong.

Lawful doesn't mean "robotically follows the law of the country I am in"

>> No.38020388
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Captain America is loyal to AMERICA or rather the ideal of what America should be, not the America government. He is a patriot after all.

>> No.38020402

No that's clearly lawful neutral.
Good would actually kill the bear and rescue the girl, because it's "right".
Neutral does it the swapping way because it's just.
Evil tries to kill the bear before it takes the wife, but if it fails then evil gives no shits if you can't make it an offer it wins on.

>> No.38020433
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/tg/ hates all alignments for the system itself, but in particular hates Good alignments (not just LG, all of them) and characters like Kenshiro, Kamen Rider etc but hypocritically stroke their dicks about their special snowflake RPG character Sir Fuckface the Valiant who is the REAL way to play a good guy and much better and DEEPER than anything you find in the media.
Get fucked faggots, nobody will remember your shitty self insert hero characters but yourself while the real symbols of heroism will endure.

>> No.38020438

>muh moral code

So how are chaotic and neutral characters not lawful. They simply have moral codes that conflict with your view of ethics.

>> No.38020514

You realise that if 'lawful' means 'follows the laws of where you are' then no lawful good character can fight orcs or evil empires or anything because it would involve changing jurisdictions?

If the dark lord has it on the books that being a Paladin is illegal in his realm they are not going to just meekly turn around at the border, they will go and shove their holy might up his arse.

>> No.38020519

Chaotic follows no code, neutral follows his own (yes there is a difference).

>> No.38020536

>You realise that if 'lawful' means 'follows the laws of where you are' then no lawful good character can fight orcs or evil empires or anything because it would involve changing jurisdictions?

Do you think foreign diplomats and emissaries don't follow their home country's laws?

Do you think Judge Dredd cared about "jurisdiction" when he was outside Mega City One?

>> No.38020548

the code thing is retarded, ignore it.

a lawful good character wants good laws. they don't have to follow non-good laws.

>> No.38020568


Following no code is a code. Just people call atheism a religion or belief.

Choosing to be an asshole is still a choice. The path of the Dark Side/Grey Jedi is still a path.

>> No.38020617

A lawful character's ethical code is likely to be something external to themselves. The paladin code, a legal code, the tenets of a particular faith, etc. and they're likely to follow this code at the expense of their own interests. A chaotic character's code is likely to be informal and completely personal; they're going to follow it over any external expectation. Neutral characters would likely be some sort of balance between external and internal expectations.

>> No.38020626

Judge Dredd is lawful neutral and there is no law outside the city anyway.

A lawful good character is under no obligation to follow unjust laws even if they are of his own country.

>> No.38020670

Can chaotic characters even be said to have a code?

>> No.38020692
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>> No.38020750

Yeah. It would just be something informal that's rooted in their own feelings and opinions. For instance, a barbarian might consider it seriously taboo to bully or victimize people weaker than themselves and may have some informal ideas about how one is to properly conduct themselves in combat.

>> No.38020778

It is never not funny.

>> No.38021095

Yeah and that's chaotic, their code is basically do what you think is right in that current moment.

>> No.38021259

Most of us hate good alignments and moralfags because they're constantly trying to force their own personal beliefs onto others. Moralfags always think they know what is best, and will do anything to further their own agendas. They will kill someone who commits something they personally consider "evil" without even giving them a chance to right their wrongs. A moralfag doesn't acknowledge the human behind the crime. For example, a father who has recently been laid off from work desperately needs to feed his family, so in his moment of weakness he breaks into someone's house and steals some excess money laying around. Most people on /tg/ can empathize with the man, we are mature enough to understand that he was only trying to feed his children, yet the few moralfags among us believe he should be thrown in prison to be raped for the rest of his life, or even put to death! For what? For caring about his family? Most people who commit crimes come to regret them later in life, and will often try to find ways to make it up to those his crimes hurt; the moralfag would take this away from them, and condemn them to prisons which will inevitably destroy any humanity left in them. What's worse is that they think that they are somehow justified in this. That they are following some kind of "higher law" and that they will be rewarded for it later.

>> No.38021298
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>that inaccurate as fuck assumption that the monk/french fanfiction of King Arthur were the original tales

>> No.38021429
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He doesn't know who Decade is. Like 98% of /tumblrgames/ he's an ignorant dumbfuck who just wants to fit in with what he perceives as cool and acceptable, so he just googled Kamen Rider and posted what caught his eye.

>> No.38021492

Because they're cowards who aim low.
If you're playing a game where your choices aren't scripted, and the only consequences of taking the harder path will be suffered by a temporary avatar, and with a reasonable GM you can make a lasting difference in the game world, why would you strive to act worse than you do in reality, why not better?
Pretending to be a hero is just as much wish fulfillment as anything else.

>> No.38021561

Plenty of /tg/ are fine with lawful good. For my part, I'm fine with the alignment itself, but I absolutely fucking despise most LGfags because they treat it as a license to act CG while pretending they're better than people who admit to being CG.

>> No.38021614

People who play LG are fucking awesome. It means you're willing to fetter yourself.

It's people who habitually play CE and CN who need to be burned alive in the street as a warning to their fellow retards.

>> No.38022688

>It means you're willing to fetter yourself.

Or that you're looking to play a character defined primarily by their morality, which can easily wind up causing problems in a group.

>> No.38022725
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Which anime?

Because I know that posting Marche in an alignment thread is a surefire way to derail it.

He did nothing wrong, by the way.

>> No.38022970 [DELETED] 

because law is the root of most evils that beset manking. lawful good is an oxymoron

>> No.38023055

because law is the root of most evils that beset mankind. lawful good is an oxymoron

>> No.38023080

You are a gigantic retard if you think Lawful Good restricts what kind of personality you can have.

>> No.38023628

I don't. I like Lawful Good.
I like the entirety of the alignment system.

>> No.38023769

True Chaotic Good

>> No.38023810
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> Rolling up a Paladin in AD&D
> A less than 2% chance of doing this
> Doing so on your first try
> Party immediately murders you

I'd murder every other player at that table.

>> No.38023835

it pretty much bans "sociopath," which puts a damper on really fun murderhobo activities.

>> No.38023963

The third point of that just seemed like a way to have your cake and eat it too by choosing 'good' in one situation and 'lawful' in another.

>> No.38024133


Dang I love that picture.Thats the way Cap should always be written

>> No.38024192


It is.
I think that's the point, you aren't required to act in concert with every part of your alignment at all times, all it really represents is your overall tendencies on a pair of fairly arbitrary axes.

It doesn't account for Paladins and their codes as well, I admit, but the Paladin Code has never made all that much sense and the question's not about that.

>> No.38024207



>> No.38024237

Boring + Unrealistic.

>> No.38024321

I dont.

but I prefer Decent but Complicated as an alignment.

>> No.38024386

The biggest hate from Paladins mostly comes from the, as much as I hate to use TvTropes terminology, "Lawful Stupid" mindset.

You know, the "we must do everything honorably and donate all of our money to good causes" and "no fun allowed" people that make the game as fucking pain to play.

>> No.38024443


Funny part is ive never actually played with this sort of player but ive played with countless versions of his CN disguised as psychotic evil counterpart

>> No.38024491

I played such a character once, but only as a parody. He was shortlived because I switched out for a character less redundant with the party.

>> No.38024545

Because people forget that lawful good does not equal lawful nice.

Also. If captain America was real and I could interact with him. I wouldn't care if every single other being in existence hates me. As long as I had the approval of the paragon, I would be ok.

>> No.38024586

Go forbid the Paladin not let you steal shit or torture someone.

>> No.38024851

>no fun allowed
Oh yeah, it's great fun to be wanted dead or alive within ten minutes of entering a town because Grabby McStabby the thief was "just acting out his alignment", it never gets old!

>> No.38024918

I mean the "But we can't sneak into the stronghold and murder the if Bad in his sleep! That's not honorabur!"

Then sounds the Gong of Challenge to make sure everyone in the fortress is awake and aware of our location before we enter so it's a fair fight.

THAT kid of No Fun Allowed.

>> No.38024934

Because it implies the validity of a hetero normative value system which seems innately oppressive to /tg/'s deviant leanings.

>> No.38024995

If someone was carrying a gong around, it would be a waste not to use it. Similarly if the bad decides to decline the gong of challenge you can explode his everything.

>> No.38025028
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I love lawful good.

>> No.38025157

I've never understood the honourable thing. I mean sure a paladin might need to show honour. But the average LG character shouldn't in my opinion. Honour is not exclusively lawful or good. Law usually includes rules against killing without just cause, but typically doesn't touch on honour. Same goes for good. Good things aren't always honourable. If you kill the big bad guy, who cares how you did it, as long as it wasn't like devil worship or something?

>> No.38025400


Dang it im gonna beat the BBEG im gonna do it by the book and im gonna fill out all the necessary paperwork afterwards

>> No.38025476

You have no honour, like a woman.

>> No.38025543

I'd like to think the only ranges people could see Marche is from neutral good to chaotic neutral at worst. He did an incredibly selfish thing because of his own personal moral stance on living in a fantasy world, but no one can deny that he had good intentions, and it was only in countenance to a different extremely selfish act done with selfish intentions.

>> No.38025544

That's not really the default alternative to lawful good. Playing a band of amoral mercenaries (as the more common example) doesn't necessarily mean you go start shit in every town you encounter, in fact that's just plain out bad business.

>> No.38025605

It's more that a paladins teaching exalts/encourages honour and discourages a lack of honour by linking it to evil/unlawful acts, which are often dishonourable, or at the very least lacking in honour (at least the paladins view on honour).

>> No.38025655

Didn't see that you specifically mentioned non-paladins not needing honour. I agree, disregard my post on paladins.

>> No.38025841

The point is they're tragic figures. It's impossible to uphold their morals in the world they live in, and not because the world is just bad and everyone's bad and I'm good; it's because the moralfag is so stubbornheaded that he can't realize he's on an unsustainable path (ie tragedy).

Look at Noah for an example, the story was supposed to be rooting for how great Noah is for not being corrupt and evil and saving all the pure creations of God, but Darren just filmed what was really happening (and described in the Bible), Noah going to extremely immoral ends (letting millions die, many of whom were likely not 'evil'; and in the movie, obviously planning to kill the babies and not let the family live on) in order to carry out the mission he was given. He's a moralfag and the whole movie, you watch him knowing he's wrong.
If the movie just turned and said just Kidding! He was right all along now take home these values of strong father figures and steadfastness to your ideals, well it's just an dumb umreflective movie, most likely written for kids:

>> No.38026511

Tyrael is really the only lawful good Angel though, most Angels would be lawful neutral and just seem good because comparatively the Evils are even worse

>> No.38026717
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>> No.38026873

That's some dumb shit you just posted anon, mostly because if we're talking Biblical then we're talking about the Lord Almighty who is the de facto source of morality within the Christverse. Goodness on a whole cosmic and divine scale is measured using good old Yahweh as your yard stick and he cannot do wrong. He's not a god or God he's fucking GOD. And if he tells you to do something you need to trust him that it's for the eventually benefit of everything everywhere. Don't forget that the actual story of Noah takes place in the Antediluvian era. And what else existed in the Antediluvian era? Fucking Nephilim and Gibborim son, half angel abominations that were causing an insane amount of trouble on the earthly plane. Those Giant assholes were literally giant assholes fucking up everybody's shit and creating immorality and unhappiness in their every step. God steps in like he's supposed to and wipes the slate keeping the only human family he can trust; that means that because God is an all knowing motherfucker no other people on that boat would have turned out right. And it also means that yes only 2 of every animal could get on that sucker.

Take your blockbuster trash and shove it alongside your "cynical" viewpoint. If you're older than 16 than you've been allowed to think like a tween for too long and you need to grow up or at the very least learn the source material.

>> No.38027148

It requires no special cynicism to say that a biblically literal Yahweh is one evil motherfucker.

>> No.38027169

No, that part is not knowing the material. Yahweh is the font of good, the ur-morality. He is never not working in for the greater good in an insanely complicated plan he laid out when things got started.

>> No.38027182

So... God is not omnipotent, then, right?

>> No.38027231

Sort of. He works within the constructs of his system and also tries to guide people to doing what needs to be done. Shepherd and that. Let's say that your village was going to burn down and God for some reason needed it to not burn down. Would he snap his fingers so it doesn't burn down? No. He'd send a messenger to talk to somebody in the village to deal with it, probably through something faith testing.

>> No.38027261

Couldn't he have done that with less genocide and commanding his followers to genocide?

Also, it sort of seems like the only reason God says he's the perfect good is... well, that God says so. The logic is entirely circular.

>> No.38027316

No he couldn't because the fallout from that genocide lead into X events that leads into the Y and Z events and so on. There's no working around the second statement since biblical lore presumes that you know God is the source of all morality. When he made the world he made it a paradise for Adam and Eve. Only a certain somebody fucked that up.

>> No.38027358

Not a very good story, in my opinion. But we've grown wiser since then.

>> No.38027382

Ha, no we haven't. Human intelligence hasn't really risen or fallen in any meaningful capacity. There's more scientific knowledge around but that's only because everybody is working off of past generations. That's not wisdom, that's having reference material.

>> No.38027471

>Only a certain somebody fucked that up.
But that certain somebody was him.

>> No.38027502

>many of whom were likely not 'evil'

within the internal logic of the biblical story, everyone in the world was evil (aside from noah and family). if this strikes you as implausible then consider it's no more unlikely than the whole boat and animal business. mythology doesn't really concern itself with plausibility.

within darren's version this was replaced by a kind of environmental parable with noah on the one side representing total rejection of humanity in favour of the environment, and tubal-cain the other way around. i'm sure the point was not about "moralfaggotry" but simply that humans need to live sustainably, and both noah and tubal-cain's visions were unsustainable, noah because he was too conscious about nature to care about humanity's survival, and tubal-cain because he wanted humans to just take and take and take until nothing was left and humanity would (literally) consume itself. which was the situation they had arrived at when the flood arrived.

>> No.38027524

serpent pls

>> No.38027712

>Heisei riders
>Lawful good
Can't say about Agito, Den-O and Kiva but the only LGs between them are Kuuga and Ryuki

>> No.38027719

Unless we define God as good, then be definition everything he does is good.

>> No.38027765

You can say pretty much the same thing about a toaster, it just that neither of those is a very practical definition.

>> No.38027790

Toaster didn't create the universe and doesn't possess near unlimited power. The font of everything's opinion of what's good or not counts for more.

>> No.38027805

>near unlimited


>> No.38027817

Yes but toasters don't commit genocide either, so in my eyes they hold the moral high ground so far.
Alternatively we could define god as a toaster, then by definition everything he makes is toast.

>> No.38027843

Then your sense of morality is warped beyond recognition. There is also no reason to define god as a toaster or to even compare that to morality. How euphoric are you? I'm almost upset to share a board with somebody who misses the basics of a common mythology so hard.

>> No.38027849

The words "good" and "evil" in real life are variable and apply to whatever our flawed mortal minds think they apply to. Therefore, we cannot say God is good, evil or neither by our definition as we have a finite, and therefore inherently flawed, view of an infinite God.

In D&D terms, "Good" and "Evil" have hard, objective terms. Gods can be Good, Evil or Neutral based on how much their own views align with the objective Good and Evil of D&D. However, even in those terms God is beyond the alignment system. He's like Ao, he's the one who makes the rules and therefore is not bound by them. He simply IS.

>> No.38027971

Since all arguments for god being good boil down to declaring that man cannot comprehend good, because by the moral standards of any sane person god would seem monstrous at best, you have already given up on having a meaningful definition of those terms and might very well call them toast for all that it matters at that point.
Unlike the 10 plagues toast is at least delicious.

>> No.38028069

Everything you say demonstrates an increasing lack of awareness towards morality and theology and an annoying love of semantics. There is no clearer way to explain to you that within the setting God is good than to mention that every good thing to ever happen, ever will happen is a direct result of God's plan. Every bad thing to ever happen, that will ever happen fails into the category of people fucking with the plan or it leading into another beneficial event. God is progenitor of existence itself and creating everything was a wholly selfless act not to mention the time he let himself be nailed to a cross as a grand gesture that he forgave the sins of humanity.

>Unlike the 10 plagues toast is at least delicious.
Frog legs.

>> No.38028198

So it's a setting with a terrible plot that never lets you work it out for yourself, only giving you any hint at what's going on long after the fact, if ever?

>> No.38028243

We're not discussing the merits of the setting (bonus, setting's don't have a plot plots have a setting) we're discussing the morality of God which you don't seem to grasp.

>> No.38028248

>Frog legs.
Fair enough

>> No.38028310

The morality of God IRL or fictionally?

>> No.38028345

We've been talking about Christian God this whole time. God within context of the Christian mythos. Fiction.

>> No.38028360

But Lawful Good is the alignment /tg/ talks up most.
>paladin thread
>paladin thread
>paladin thread
>paladin thread
>paladin thread
>did I mention paladin thread?

>> No.38028365

no, is fact

>> No.38028386

We can assume that if you want. It doesn't change things.

>> No.38028433

Lawful Good fighters are better than paladins in every single circumstance, where their actions are driven by actual strength of character and personal growth rather than adherence to some silly, restrictive code.

Paladins are shit.

>> No.38028457
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Because Spoony likes LG and fa/tg/uys are required by law to hate Spoony and everything he likes

>> No.38028517

The only common Spoony opinion on /tg/ is who cares? I stopped following that guy a while ago, kept giving so many chances to clean up his act but his quality never really got back to his early levels.

>> No.38028541


>> No.38028615

Really? How many spoony threads have you seen?

>> No.38028657

I don't know, let me count. A fair amount I guess? I don't keep track.

>> No.38028920
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>hating lawful good
You frikkin Newfags.

Im going to Paladin Dump, get yourselves ready

>> No.38028944
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>> No.38028974
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>> No.38029003
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>> No.38029025

As a chaotic good, I politely disagree with the lawful good's ideology but respect him as long as he follows the righteous path.

>> No.38029030
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>> No.38029057
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>> No.38029078
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>> No.38029096
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>> No.38029103
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Story of Ozzmar the HalfOrc Paladin, part 1/3

>> No.38029158
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No one is forcing you to read. its okay if you wanna admit to being a newfag and not wanting to read or educate yourself.

>> No.38029184
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>> No.38029220
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>> No.38029227

Because Lawful Good is usually played by people who don't want to have to think, even though it requires the most open and, in a sense philosophical, mind to play.
When people absolutely REFUSE to comprehend the variety in narrative, they can no longer play Lawful Good. And unlike a comic book character, you can't make a player understand things they don't want to bother with. You can't railroad an epiphany that influences the character's motivations.

>> No.38029265
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>> No.38029278
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>read or educate yourself.

/tg/ in the earliest days fucking hated moralfags of all kinds, Kenshiro in particular left the lot of you booty busted for years and probably what lead so many of you to formulate your little self insert moralfags to show all those other popular heroes in fiction how it's REALLY done.
Don't talk about who's a newfag around here you palacuck motherfucker.

>> No.38029332

>inb4 this becomes another fucking thread about Paladins falling

>> No.38029358
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would you mind showing us on the doll where the Paladin smote you?

I've been here for three years. This board has been filled with all forms of paladin-fags and moral-fags. Further the its only been within the last month that we had an influx of edge-fags and newfags who post and behave exactly as you are now.

chill the fuck out nigga

>> No.38029383
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>> No.38029394

>I've been here for three years
I don't mean to be that guy since I'm not a longtime /tg/ poster, but holy shit it's a literal newfag calling others newfags.
Buckle up guys.

>> No.38029398

Why don't they just watch their step? Maybe we should get them a walker.

>> No.38029420
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>> No.38029435

Hey Paladins, if your Gods are supposed to protect you why do they keep letting you fall of shit?
Checkmate Christians

>> No.38029451
File: 249 KB, 1654x829, -tg- Traditional Games_1262108076705.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

>I've been here for three years

wow we got ourselves an oldfag

>> No.38029455
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>> No.38029461

Basically, it's just sticking to the code of always doing what is good. It's Good with a backbone.

>> No.38029476
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>> No.38029510

My point is that it's hilarious that /tg/ pisses on all moralfags in fiction but turns around and makes their own utterly shit characters (like in these rambling probably fabricated campaign stories) sound like goddamn gold and how you REALLY are supposed to write a moralfag.

>> No.38029553
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And here is your mandatory reading people.
have fun, and find a comfy place to curl up while you do so.

>> No.38029725
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I once took an alignment test using myself, and I came out True Neutral.
Am I inherently boring?

>> No.38029825

>bullshitting about people hating Kenshiro
is /v/ leaking tonight?

>> No.38029900

No. Everyone will test out True Neutral, maybe mormons will get Neutral Good or demented idiots will get Chaotic Neutral or something. But the fact is the alignment system crap and only one-note characters designed to sit on the far edges of the chart are anything beyond Neutral.

>> No.38029940

/tg/ legitimately disliked him more than /v/ where it was just an epic maymay

/tg/ is the board that will tout their own mary sue god mode character as the TRUE hero over that inferior anime moralfag, thinking anyone should give a shit

>> No.38030016

i dunno, Mormons are all about rigidity, rules, commandments, covenants, and personal discipline, they would probably lean pretty close to the Lawful spectrum. Plus add in the fact that one of their rules states that they have to respect the laws of whichever country they reside in.

then why does the 1d4chan article suck his dick so much?

>> No.38030050

This shit predates 1d4chan and goes back to 2006 / 2007

How fast revisionist history sets in

>> No.38030167
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>2006 / 2007
you mean back when /tg/ was a containment board for autistic 40kids?

Well then I'm glad /tg/ grew up and became a sensible board rather than just a bunch of whiny /v/tier ragetards and grognards.

>> No.38030199
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I'd take the old days of 40K autism over your Quest thread and tumblr cancer.

>> No.38030212


>> No.38030986


This is a glorious rant. +1 rantyness.

>> No.38031189

There is no clearer way to explain to you that within the setting God (Dr. Manhattan) is good than to mention that (almost) every good thing to ever happen, ever will happen (for the US) is a direct result of God's (Dr Manhattan's) plan. Every bad thing to ever happen, that will ever happen fails into the category of people fucking with the plan or it leading into another beneficial event.
Guess Manhattan is inherantly good?

>> No.38031281

Instead of all of these shit paladin greentexts, can't we just get the one where the Paladin keeps detecting a kid as evil, and the moral is to think before you smite?

>> No.38031674
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>being moral
>being lawful

>> No.38035059


/tg/ loves lawful good.
Most neckbeards here can't into lawful good and end up playing "edgyflavored" or "lawful stupid", a lot of DMs take their petty problems on the players and try to forcefuck them with the morality system and all, but we love lawful good and real paladins.

The constant here is that lawful good, well played lawful good triumphs against evil, against the fagget at the table, and sometimes it even triumphs the evil DM.

>So why aren't there more LG characters here?

Problem is, alignments were designed to help with the representation of myths and archetypes in fantasy, thus, definitely not designed with "that guy" in mind.

And there's a small "that guy" inside all of us, our prejudices (all of them, because fuck, they're a lot), our traumas, our need to dominate and win at something because life is shitty and the system we live in is shitty in varying degrees for different reasons; the overcompetitiveness that said system instills on us, even the inherent lack of satisfaction that comes with being human can transform you into "that guy" if you're not careful.

Sum it up and look at the posts here.
You'll have a decent idea about who really takes a good look in the mirror from time to time, and those who don't because they are afraid of what they will see. The second group cannot and should not play any morality systems, as it's unlikely they derive any benefit from them.

>> No.38035122

Question? How can you well execute chaotic neutral short of mad hatter shenanigans?

>> No.38035134

Not true! Lawful means you have a personal code that you try to stick to! It doesn't even mean that you always stick to it, but that you strive to do so earnestly in all circumstances, even if you slip and fail.

>> No.38035271
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>Lawful Good fighters are better than paladins in every single circumstance, where their actions are driven by actual strength of character and personal growth

that's what a paladin is, god damn

>You frikkin Newfags.

eh, edgelords vs. moralfags arguments have been around forever
I recall that one image of a line of anons stabbing each other in the back while declaring 'FREEDOM' to be years old

there's almost never real discussion though
if you disagree with lawful good then you're immediately accused of being a CN/CE edgelord murderhobo, and if you agree with LG then you're a nofunallowed lawful stupid asshole ruining the fun of the group for no reason

>> No.38035349
File: 95 KB, 711x540, Flight_of_Dragons_21.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

We're currently playing our first 5e campaign and my first ever time as a Paladin and I'm loving it. The class has some limitations when dealing with others but in this campaign at least my DM has made it interesting to deal with said limitations.

In combat encounters I get to actually play the hero and put myself in harms way to save others. It's cliche as fuck in that sense but a whole load of fun.

>> No.38035397

Good point, but it IS the codified version we derive most of our King Arthur Myths from, so it might as well be the original since it's the version everyone cites, even though it was deliberately written by a biased source, inserted a french knight, and was rearranged deliberately to put a fuckton of parallels between Charlemagne's and Arthur's rules so that the targeted audience (the people of France) would automatically get that Arthur was a cautionary tale, a story of how to fuck up a really good thing, unlike Charlemagne who did it right obviously.

>> No.38035412

Nope, Chaotic Good is doing what feels right moment to moment. A chaotic good character doesn't necessarily have a moral code, and further, won't try to enforce that moral code on others EVER.

A Lawful Good character believes that there is a way to act that is good.

A chaotic good character will try to preserve the freedom to act first and foremost.

>> No.38035468
File: 41 KB, 400x400, 1410490365378.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

>Hal giving up his hamboigah
Fuck, I lost it.

>> No.38035597

5 years here. Been 'moral-fags' for ages. It's fluxed, used to be more even mixed (though maybe in the initial two years before I got here there was more 'moral-fags suck' than now?), then for a while it's been mostly paladin-bros. Now we're getting edgy fuckers like you back in town. Don't know if you're old fags returning or newfags with too much edge, but either way, the culture has changed and no doubt will change again in the future.

>> No.38035616

isn't it great that we can have both though? And we even have a catalog with a filter function! HOW NICE.

>> No.38035710

>A chaotic good character doesn't necessarily have a moral code

If they didn't have a moral code they'd be CN, not CG.

>> No.38036335

1. That's an improper characterization of Manhatten
2. Universal vs. Local scale
3. Progenitor of the universe =/= omniscient blue man

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