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37996587 No.37996587 [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

Space Marines Edition

OFFICIAL BOOKS
>Eclipse Phase PDFs
http://robboyle.wordpress.com/eclipse-phase-pdfs
>Zone STALKERs
http://gaxtrope.net/eprepo/ZoneStalkers/Zone_Stalkers%20%2809052014%29.pdf
>Morph Recognition Guide
http://www.mediafire.com/download/j4bjbba89kw8v0y/Eclipse_Phase_Morph_Recognition_Guide_%286098716%29.pdf
>Million Year Echo
https://www.mediafire.com/?45aax64umrlghf2

PLAY AIDS:
>Advice for new players and GMs
http://pastebin.com/e0EErN6X
>Online character creator
http://eclipsephase.oook.ch/Creator/version4/index.php
>Eclipse Phase hacking cheet sheet
http://www.mediafire.com/view/?axe1vs35muk4juh
>Eclipse Phase xls Character sheet
https://sites.google.com/site/eclipsephases/home/cabinet

HOMEBREW AND COMMUNITY CONTENT:
>3 new adventures for your use in convenient PDF form
http://awdaberton.wordpress.com/about/
>Various Eclipse Phase fanmade resources, and links to more
http://www.aleph.se/EclipsePhase/
>An Eclipse Phase yearblog full of items, locations, NPCs, and plot hooks
http://www.farcastblog.com
>Community homebrew document
https://docs.google.com/document/d/19Gy02gp6-WPQ3SoN_24kLPTUu5EjFO8qh_9pjJSVrrY/edit

How much has your GM allowed you heavy weaponry and armor in your games? Have you ever been allowed to go full space marine?

>> No.37996962

>>37996587
What do you mean? Doesn't everyone just dual wield SMGs with hollow point bullets?

>> No.37997141

>>37996587
>>37996962
So, in fixing the weapon rules, do we need to mess with the damage rules as well, or are those okay?

>> No.37997274
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37997274

>>37996962
i like the maser since you can stun with it

>> No.37997375
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37997375

>>37996587
In a similar vein to this question, would countries/corps/whatever on Earth have toys or assets that you can't get anymore? I'm thinking at least running the prologue to my next campaign as during the Fall so I'm curious if I can give them homebrew toys to play with at least till their inevitable death

>> No.37997466

>>37997375
>In a similar vein to this question, would countries/corps/whatever on Earth have toys or assets that you can't get anymore?
Generally, Pre-Fall tech was 30-40 years ahead of Post-Fall tech. The main exceptions are the things the TITANs took humanity to school with: Nanotech, network security, and psychosurgery. Those are all drastically more advanced post-Fall.
So yes, there could be a ton of toys that stopped being in fashion/available post-fall, including extreme bio-hack morphs, personal tanks, and advanced power armor.

>> No.37997560

>>37997466
Kickass. I assumed so but wanted some confirmation.

Has anyone here run a pre-Fall/during-Fall campaign or part of a campaign like that?

>> No.37998071

>>37997141

No, you just need to make hollowpoints less bullshit. I'd have to back track, but I'm pretty sure I have it noted down that HP was AVx2 like Plastic Rounds are and that might have been an earlier version. But + a damage die for only -2 AP is pretty weak (and by weak, I mean broken). I mean, it's easy to make armor pretty ludicrous but mechanically if you roll max damage you can total a basic morph in the heaviest armor possible with just a full auto burst of hollowpoints, which is the inverse to how it should be.

>> No.37998298

>>37997560
On, but I'm planning one.
Ideally it would be against an unsuspecting group that thinks that's just teched-up Cyberpunk with the beginning of WW3 as the backdrop. They'd start in a regular low-level campaign doing whatever. Over time they hear news reports of growing tensions and military conflicts, rockets start to fly new weapons are unleshed and some people start even talking of rogue AIs taking over... and one day:
>Ladies and gentlemen, this is the UN Secretary General speaking. Evacuate the planet now.

>> No.37998884

>>37998071
Actually, using regular ammo, dual SMGs are still the best. There's no written penalty for using two-handed weapons in a single hand and the guns magically have no recoil. The devs are noguns and it shows.

>> No.37999630

>>37998884

Actually, I think dual heavy pistols are better. They do more damage (albeit marginally so), have –2 AP compared to SMGs, and still fire in full-auto. With extended magazines, you can even give them the same ammo capacity and still end up far cheaper than an unmodded SMG*.

* The basic pistol and extended magazine are both Low-cost for an average of 500 credits, or 1,250 (Moderate + Low) if you go for a railgun. The basic SMG is Moderate-cost, which is 1,000 credits, or 5,000 (High) for the railgun.

>> No.37999820

>>37999630

Wait, I forgot to take range into account. SMGs still have the pistols beat there at least.

>> No.37999920

>>37998884

I think you're just not supposed to use a two handed weapon one handed. Hence why they go out of their way to say that an Octopus or a person with two cyberlimbs with enough ambi can dual wield assault rifles.

There is a -20 off-hand penalty, but that's easily cleared by a single level of Ambi.

Recoil is just spacemagic. We have recoil compensation no, EP just assumes everything has it to a sufficient level you can compensate with your skill, or whatever. It prevents additional complexities which only apply to the kinetic weapons and maybe a couple of the spray weapons.

>> No.38000057

>>37999920
>Recoil is just spacemagic.
Or possibly nanomachines. Maybe the guns all come with built in utility fog that dynamically anchors them to the nearest surface or something.

>> No.38000269

>>38000057
That makes no sense whatsoever.

>>37999920
No. It says nothing about skills. It says that space magic makes them have no recoil. The devs don't into the Third Law of Motion. Physics is fucking important in space. This simplistic bullshit and horrible damage scaling make fighting into a joke.

>> No.38000735

>>38000269
>This simplistic bullshit and horrible damage scaling make fighting into a joke.
That's why you don't fight. You solve every problem by turning the immediate area into the a 2hus bonus boss stage. And every pellet is a thermobaric seeker.

>> No.38000829

>>38000735
Swarmanoids and grenades.

>> No.38000942

>>38000829
But I didn't invest in the throwing skill. Seekers are just so much better.

>> No.38001300

>>38000942
The enemy will expect you to use guided ordinance. They might not expect you to be guided ordinance.

>> No.38001318

>>38000942
>But I didn't invest in the throwing skill
If you throw sufficient numbers of grenades, then it'll even out. At least some of your grenades will affect your intended target(s). The collateral damage is somebody else's problem.

>> No.38001418

>>38001318
What if you're in a tin can hab?

>> No.38001495

>>38001418
>The collateral damage is somebody else's problem.
Did I fucking stutter?

>> No.38001504
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38001504

>>38001418
WP fucking everywhere.

>> No.38001706

>>38001418
Make sure you're the one in a spacesuit. Or a synth.

>> No.38002265

>>38001504
Do you feel like a hero yet?
How many Jovians have you killed today?

>> No.38002380

>>38002265
>How many Jovians have you killed today?
Not enough.

>> No.38002634

>>38002380
You monster. How can you be so callous about killing the only people who truly die when they're killed?

>> No.38002703

>>38002634
>only
It's like you don't even know how to hack a backup storage server.

>> No.38002779

>>38002634
Natural selection. Clearly, dying is an evolutionary disadvantage, and weeding it out of the population results in a stronger, more resilient species. It's just basic eugenics.

>> No.38002894

>>38002779
>Mah Ultimate

>> No.38002929

>>38002703
Oh. That works, too.

>>38002779
Your selection is unnatural, and you know it. There may be unforseen consequences to extending man's lifespan, consequences that may render dying as something other than a failure state.

>> No.38003035
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38003035

>>38002265
>tell them you don't want to do it anymore
>already know one of your backups is being loaded with fake memories of saving humanity again
>realize this has probably happened before
>you were never the hero

>> No.38003073

>>38002929
Dying will never not be a failure state. It's just not the worst failure state.

>> No.38003188

>>38002929
When you live soft cushy lives like we do now the only selection is artificial.

>> No.38003300

>>38002929

Dying is the only failure state where evolution is concerned.

That's how natural selection works, either you do okay enough to live, or you're dead.

>> No.38003392

>>38003300
Almost. It is dying without breeding that is the ultimate failure state in evolution. Dying after breeding affects nothing.

>> No.38004824
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38004824

>> No.38005953

>>37997560
I'm just starting a campaign that starts during the Fall.

The players are squad from a multinational special operations task force assigned to protect evac craft. They all seem really fucked up shit and go down in a blaze of glory being swarmed by TITAN war machines.

They're countries manage to get their stacks out and they go their separate ways. Jump ten years forward. The players have their own post-fall backstories to work out but the mission starts when all of them receive an anonymous message via their mesh implants. "You've been reactivated. Report to the attached coordinates."

That then leads into hints that the very same TITAN who had overrun the area that they were in appears to be making a comeback. It's specific war machines have appeared in the TQZ and two extropian habs have been wiped out by similar war machines. They have to go on one last mission to finally take it out or die trying.

>> No.38006010
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38006010

>> No.38006652
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38006652

How fucked is humanity in your games, /tg/ ?

>> No.38006726

>>38006652
Fucked, impregnated, left in the morning, never called back, have to raise a child without the father.

>> No.38006743

>>38006652
Well, nothing's /actively/ trying to kill them...

>> No.38006761

>>38006652
Condition blue right now. Human extinction is looking fairly unlikely, but small settlements on the border of the TQZ get fucked regularly, and small habs go dark on a practically routine basis. Transhumanity has wordlessly adopted a remarkably cattle-like safety-in-herds response and ignored the problem.
How much of this is due to various seed AIs' interference is unknown, but probably most of it. We're beginning to suspect transhumanity are basically being used as pieces in a transcendent Seed-AI game of chess. Certain people in the group are contemplating how they might be able to kick over the board

>> No.38006782

>>38006652
They're already dead.

So is all life in the universe.

I told you not to touch the blocky space robot, Tommy.

>> No.38006871

>>38006761
What part of 'you cannot outwit the Seed AI' escapes them?

>> No.38006921

>>38006871
They're neck-deep in a philosophical argument best summarized as "A man chooses, a slave obeys", and have decided that if humanity exists solely as seed AI puppets and pets, humanity is not worth preserving and thus anything that frees us of seed AI influence is justified. I'm plotting when exactly to shoot them as walking X-threats, and I'm sure they're doing exactly the same for me.

>> No.38007008

>>38006921
What makes them think they get to choose? What makes them think that 'their' decision to knock over the board is not itself a move?

>> No.38007440

Would you accept exsurgent into your life?

>> No.38008221

>>38007440
Fuck no.

>> No.38009387
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38009387

>>38007440
>>38008221
I....I don't think we'll get a choice....

>> No.38009411

>>38008221
You wouldn't let an exsurgent gently massage the neurons of your brain?

>> No.38009572

>>38000735
>You solve every problem by turning the immediate area into the a 2hus bonus boss stage. And every pellet is a thermobaric seeker.

Looks like you didn't count on having to fight Reimu. Put on this dress. Wear this hat. Drink this tea. You can call me CYBERSHRINEMAIDEN.

>> No.38009650

>>38006652
Condition Purple. I'm running unboxing and infinite upwards simulation as the horror themes.

>> No.38010234

>>38006743
What about passively?

>> No.38011016
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38011016

What's your character's favorite music genre?

>> No.38011253

>>38011016
He makes brainwave- procedurally-generated music based on your own thought processes- algorithms as one of several side projects he pursues when not trying to work up the courage to go full exhuman. However, what he actually listens to is mostly various forms of ambient.

>> No.38011356

>>38011016
Martian punk and remix art.

>> No.38011417
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38011417

>>38011016
Ambient universal background radiation, recorded TITAN attacks on repeat, numbers stations, and ancient Chinese string instruments.

>> No.38011720

>>38011016
Power Metal. Ice Metal still isn't a thing, no matter how butthurt Titanians get about the fact that their music doesn't deserve to be in it's own super speshul genre by itself. If they weren't clankers and whatever the fuck those hulder are, I'd say it's the lack of oxygen getting to them.

>> No.38013711

>>38011016
He doesn't have the time to pick a favourite. He's too busy trying to survive in a world he doesn't understand.

>> No.38014360

>>38011016
psy/goa - it meshes well with his high-velocity aerial stunts

>> No.38015673

>>37996587
Does anyone else think that Dvergar should be Small Size rather than human average height? They're not very dorfy. Also, why is their aptitude maximum 35? The only other morph with that value is the Fenrir.

>> No.38017078

>>37996962
I don't. Guns are equipment, and the GM can take equipment away whenever he wants. For me, it's unarmed or bust.

>> No.38017515

>>38017078
Your morph is equipment. How is your unarmed skill going to help you as an infomorph?

>> No.38017579

>>38017515
That's where I'm bust. If I have no physical body, I do not fight, since I can only flee.

>> No.38017637

>>38017515
>>38017579
That's the reason to learn hacking as well.
Lost the morph? Take someone else's

>> No.38017730

>>38017637
Like the GM would ever allow a player to take hacking skills. He'd assume that the hacker would just steal everyone else's stuff, like a CN rogue or a kender.

>> No.38017750

>>38017730
>not allowing hacking skills
>cyberpunk
Why even bother?

>> No.38017811

>>38017750
Hacking would still be there, just restricted to NPCs. That way, the GM can control the group better.

>> No.38017899

>>38017811
Infosec covers both offense and defense and everyone takes it to some extent or another. It's what you use if you're in a morph with a cyberbrain and someone is trying to hack you or someone's hacking your mesh inserts to feed you AR bullshit or cut you off from sending for help. How much of a control freak is you GM ffs?

>> No.38017945

>>38017899
I don't have a GM. I'm just working with a hypothetical GM, based on what I assume is the average behaviour for them.

>> No.38019372

Did anyone else get the vibe that that new video game Evolve is reminiscent of a gatecrashing team getting fucked up by xenofauna?

>> No.38019774

>>38017945
You're assuming badly, then.

>> No.38020558

>>38009572
>it looks like someone has been feeding the AI nothing but anime and Super Sentai
>it now answers to "Galactic Samurai Rider" and demands that you open the box "in the name of Justice"
Do you open the box?

>> No.38020812

>>38019774
I guess you're right. What are good assumpyions, then?

>>38020558
No. Not even in the face of death. Never open the box.

>> No.38021813

What are the likely psychological issues for a human ego going from a seven-prehensile-limbed morph to a two-prehensile-limbed-morph, assuming the seven-limbed one is their birth morph, the ego is eighteen years old, and has been five-limbed since birth and seven-limbed since about the age of ten?

>> No.38022193

>>38021813
A tendency to drop things because they assume they have more arms than they do.

>> No.38022488

>>38021813

Like >>38022193 just combine it with in general be shittier at multi-tasking because you keep trying to use limbs which aren't designed for being prehensile to pick up things or do dexterous stuff. Like your hands are full so you try and tab the manual keypad with your foot or something.

I assume with 7 that's a Bouncer w/ Tail + Cyberlimbs? You could fix some of that with a spin in the aug parlor, but for the short term, you'll experience a severe drop in multitasking.

Mechanically, this should all be covered in the resleeving test, w/ appropriate penalties stress (The limb decrease probably counts as a penalty to the roll). If you pass okay, then your mind adjusts very well, thanks patching technology.

>> No.38023245

>>38022488

Bouncer w/tail plus a pair of cyberlimb plusses, yeah. Got the idea from someone talking about a character like that here on /tg/, but now they're ending up in a stock pleasure pod for a mission onto a hypercorporate hab that Firewall suspects has an Exsurgent cult on it, so I'm going from a really tricked-out, customized and personalized morph to... well, a stock pleasure pod. Should be interesting.

>> No.38023402
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38023402

>>38023245

Honestly, you're just as likely to be disoriented by the fact that you're much less dexterous and strong and not nearly as flexible in the Pleasure Pod as the reduction in manipulators (unless you throw your +5 into SOM or COO, but you only have one hanging +5). The fact that you're a pod, with the full cyberbrain suite is probably just as likely to freak anybody out, say nothing of how a being in a Pleasure Pod is going to mess with your sex drive and social inhibitions (though, enhanced pheromones means you'll be messing with other people's too).

It's probably not that hard to find a pleasure pod with a prehensile tail, I mean, they supposedly can purr.

>> No.38023486

>>38023402

Yeah, the cyberbrain's going to be a little hard to get used to, I imagine. And the issue is we're being treated as, ah, the 'latest shipment' in Standardized Pleasure AIs from a firewall-owned Hypercorp. We've been briefed and psychosurgically augmented to maintain our cover under extreme duress, and if worst comes to worst we've all got hidden emergency farcasters to GTFO to a hidden satellite to be debriefed, checked for infection, and if necessary sterilized and reverted from backup.

>> No.38023622
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38023622

>>38023486

>Standardized Pleasure AIs from a firewall-owned Hypercorp

Man, I hope that Firewall has either socially engineered that these are shitty cheap AIs, or the hypercorp drones don't know a good lay, because I'm sure none of you are packing Art: Erotic Entertainment at 80. Which if I was GMing would probably be the best way for me to make things complicated for such an undercover op (especially since "pretending to be the help" is usually a pretty solid tactics) is to actually challenge you guys to be "Alright, you have a client, how well can you pretend to be a cheap sexbot?"

>> No.38023657

>>38021813
It's less about how many limbs are prehensile than just how many limbs. In order of ease, prehensile feet are the easiest, then prehensile tail, then extra arms, and then extra legs. On the other hand, losing limbs might make you have phantom limb syndrome, but it's easier to deal with not having a limb than learning how to use a limb that you didn't have before.

>>38023245
No one has small kids with cyberlimbs. Only Ultimates or a minority of Ancaps would consider it. It's too fucking weird for the inner system and tends to be something that people get if it helps with their job, and putting extra limbs on a small kid violates their bodily integrity much more than just choosing their hair color.

>>38023622
Firewall owns hypercorps? I thought they were on a shoestring budget.

>> No.38023680

>>38023622

We've got programs to help with it, and our Muses have been loaded with Psychosurgery packages to constantly apply Skill Imprinting. The group's ranging between 65 and 90 for it, I think. I'm hovering about 80, myself.

>> No.38023681

>>38015673
Anyone want to comment on this?

>> No.38023712

>>38023622
>fail orgasm roll
>yell "IRQL not less or equal" while clenching so hard the client's junk is ripped off

>> No.38023730

>>38023657

The character in question is an Ancap, so.

And firewall owns shell companies, surely. Shoestring budget more refers to talent, time, and travel--Q-bits and antimatter are expensive, and people with certain sets of skills aren't exactly always available and willing to work for Firewall.

>> No.38023744

>>38023657
It's more like some of their agents and/or contacts have or are friends in high places. It would make sense for some hypercorp types to be involved with Firewall, either to get them to do cover up work for them or because they don't trust Ozma, or for some other reason.

>> No.38023977

>>38023744
It's more likely that they don't know about Ozma, but you can be sure that Ozma knows about them.

Hypercorp people are there to pull strings. Say you need to get onto Ganymede. You have the hypercorp plant hire your sentinel team to pull transport duty on a cargo shipment headed for there. Hypercorp business is great cover.

>> No.38024054

>>38023977
So what you're saying is, hypercorp types pull the strings from behind the curtain, and they shouldn't have their boots on the ground in all/most ops. Am I getting that right?

>> No.38024072

>>38023657

>Firewall owns hypercorps? I thought they were on a shoestring budget.

Firewall is one of the few groups in the solar system who might have access to Seed AI tech, they are probably not poor. It's just that throwing money around doesn't necessarily help them actually solve their problems. Firewall typically pays for morphs and backups after all, but they have a lot of shit to do, so they expect you to handle most of your own equipment needs (unless you roll some Networking) because you're standing right there. But somebody has to pay for all those Quantum Computers, QE comms and tactical antimatter weapons. It's just your Proxy has to justify all the money he gives you to the rest of their Server. So don't waste the OP budget on blackjack and hookers.

Hypercorp doesn't necessarily indicate size, more a style of direction. A hypercorp is the streamlined, freelancer heavy design (where as a microcorp mostly just accomplishes everything with half a dozen guys all the time, I'd wager). Firewall could easily own a small corp and staff it with freelancers who don't know better.

>>38023680

Oh, so your problem is that the longer you're undercover, the more you'll go crazy. Since it's +1 SV per +10 automatically, and that reduced by 10 per day until it wears off, and it takes a subjective week per +10.

>> No.38024217

>>38024072
>Oh, so your problem is that the longer you're undercover, the more you'll go crazy.

Yeah, pretty much. We're getting two weeks of time before we're being pulled out regardless and a new team sent in if we have evidence of exsurgency.

>> No.38024735
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38024735

>> No.38024842

>>38024054
What I'm saying is that most hypercorp elite aren't wetwork types. If it's a player character, that's usually different.

>>38015673
>>38023681
Really? No one?

>> No.38024852

>>38023486
What's so different about using a cyberbrain again?

>> No.38024903

>>38024852
Outside of easy ego insertion/removal, it can be hacked.

>> No.38024989

>>38024842
>Really? No one?

Obviously nobody cares.

I mean, who even decided dwarves were supposed to be short? And the Dvergr is a head shorter than the average height anyhow.

(As for the aptitudes, fuck if I know. They wanted it to have a SOM 40 cap because High-G adaptation?)

>>38024852

Instead of running in a native brain, you're running on a piece of hardware that runs a digital emulation of a brain. Depending on the quality of that hardware and emulation software, being in a cyberbrain can be as weird as switching from the brain in a Splicer to the brain in a Menton. Or more.

Basically, it means most of your brain response/activity is being simulated digitally, and that's weird if you're not used to it.

>> No.38025045

>>38023657
>Firewall owns hypercorps? I thought they were on a shoestring budget.
I personally imagine that it isn't the budget that's the problem. It's allocating resources and manpower to various Firewall agendas without being noticed by the outside world that's the problem. Firewall has to remain subtle, and even find ways to discretely justify their "kill it with fire" actions.

This is in stark contrast to OZMA, who is working with the PC and can be exactly as loud as they want to be.

>> No.38025069

>>38024842
Okay, guess that means the "Cognite auditor" idea is getting junked.

>> No.38025111

>>38015673
Size isn't just height, it's also bulk. The Dvergar is a stocky morph, and while short is probably heavier and bulkier than a human morph. That makes it effectively the same size, but more wide than tall.

>> No.38025145

>>38025069

Hypercorps don't audit themselves usually. If somebody is fucking around with your black budget, you take them out back and shoot them, or whatever you feel like doing because they're "corporate" citizens. Otherwise everything is A-Okay. Cognite especially can't allow anything to be bad ever, so I'm sure all of their projects are working 100% as intended, thanks for asking Oversight.

(Meanwhile, Oversight's job description is to dig through individual corp's dirty laundry to make sure they aren't fucking things up for the Consortium as a whole)

>> No.38025582

>>38025145
Alright, think think think. There's got to be some sort of believable way to mix "Firewall sentinel team" and "hypercorp-owned AGI", but it just seems too out there, even for this gonzo setting.

>> No.38025698

>>38025582

Being "owned" by anybody is going to put a serious dent in your ability to be a high mobile investigative intelligence asset, unless you can magically get sent out to whatever hotspot is up next.

>> No.38025729

>>38025111
They're the same height as a Flat. That's not a dwarf. Shorter than average doesn't make it worthy of being called a dwarf.

>>38024989
Who decided? Well, the Norse decided somewhere between the 13th and 14th century.

>> No.38026098

>>38023486
>and if worst comes to worst we've all got hidden emergency farcasters to GTFO to a hidden satellite to be debriefed, checked for infection, and if necessary sterilized and reverted from backup.

There will be no debriefing.
There will be no "sterilization."
You will be reverted from back-up.

Your farcasters output to /dev/null and dd /dev/truerandom nine to the nine to the ninetynineth time over everything before the thermite triggers.

You're not nearly paranoid enough to work as firewall: you always delete yourself, especially if you believe the mission to have been "successful." Always. That or you're drinking the kool-aid. Remember the kind of argonauts, AGI and autonomists who set up fire wall?

>> No.38026114
File: 886 KB, 814x1352, DvegrMorph.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
38026114

>>38025729

>Who decided? Well, the Norse decided somewhere between the 13th and 14th century.

Yeah, but prior to the legendary sagas, the Dvergr in the Eddas aren't described as particularly short. Old Norse names for them include things like "high".

You're full of shit because you want heavy-worlders to have literal dwarfism because it satisfies your aesthetic boner. Take reduced size if you're that keen on it. Otherwise, you're going to have to build me a real strong argument for why high-gravity morphs need to be explicitly child-sized rather than just stocky.

>> No.38026216

>>38025582
Their Proxy isn't actually Firewall, but an Oversight plant effectively hijacking Firewall resources to run their own missions. The AGI is the on-site handler, there to scrub the rest of the team if they ever catch on.

>> No.38026255

>>38026216
>It is more menacing to use present tense, because in eclipse phase anything that can go wrong has already gone wrong.

The AGI is the on-site handler, there scrubbing the rest of the team every time they catch on.

>> No.38026302

>>38026255
God backups are just so much fun.

>> No.38026355

>>38026302
Remember in Eclipse Phase you can always suddenly stop the session, preferably when they send back-ups; and restart at a backup facility. If the players ask say nothing. When the characters ask, their handler cites x-threat security. Then you start feeding them Memento clues.

>> No.38026376

>>38025698
Right. Maybe changing it from being owned to a hypercorp to being a freelancer with Inner System sympathies might do the trick.

>>38026216
>>38026255
Or that, with the right GM, group, and player mindset and enough acting skill.

>>38026355
Sweet baby Jesus, that's clever.

>> No.38026585

>>38026376
>Sweet baby Jesus, that's clever.

Do it just before the boss fight. It will have a horrible Brechtian anti-catharsis.

It is useful as a way to signal to them that you will TPK, and that you are capable of perma-TPKing them. In fact, doing it somewhat after a back-up can also be help-horribleful.

Start adding in the usual symbols that they "didn't notice before." Their favourite simu-liver hot congee drink pack tastes like the three day gone off bile of a four year old child they once knew. "It doesn't taste as good as human, but nothing ever does any more." Leak out information.

Then let them discover the BB x-threat was rendered safe / eliminated by a gamma team. If they know any firewall clean-up, the clean-up will not look them in the eye. Sometimes their handler involuntarily vomits when talking to one particular character.

They start getting given "weaker" and "weaker" sleeves for missions, "because of material you are restricted from knowing due to x-threat potential."

If the players are upset, murder their character's cyberdogs / favourite porn blogger / cafe owner. Make it clear that nobody else was responsible. Arbitrarily remove rep. Have people spit (shit) on them in the public tube-gangs in the tin can.

Never tell them why. Never let them learn. Every time they almost learn, reboot from the last save point. They will come to dread the unknown.

Never let them know. If they ask you long after the series of stories are finished tell them, "I actually didn't write anything for that." It doesn't matter if the x-threat of the week is exurgents or AIs. Let them get some, but not all of them. You'll utterly disrupt the narrative, just like being woken, yet again, from the dead to try to save us all from dying quite so fast.

It is a great way to remind them that this isn't cyberpunk, but horror.

>> No.38026635

>>38026585

They have sci-fi supplements for Call of Cthulhu, y'know, Jesus.

>> No.38026761

>>38026635
If it is simply murdering a PC Executive and freeing the enslaved thousands of fork-replicated child egos in industrial fabrication robots so their "tiny fingers" can produce "authentic hand made 20th century style mass manufactured antique copper cartridge rounds," then that might be moral, and ethical, but it isn't an x-threat.

They send argonauts to deal with fundamental breakdowns in Unified Theory space-time due to "objects."

They send the Scum and pleasure pods to fuck the wavering "near take off," trans-humans and AGIs into reboxing themselves.

They send true combat monsters to do clean-up when you fuck-up.

And why do you think they activated you to go down the gravity well? Because you're disposable. Because you're expendable. Because you were the most-cost-effective-nearest to go. And because your handler sure as shit doesn't want to see what triggered the argonaut's pattern detection AGIs. And your handler will send you time and again until you get it right. And if you don't take precautions, the handler will abandon your failures to earth, where a wild TITAN will box them and treat them like a fanny-pack monster, force evolving them to fight other fanny-pack monsters from other TITANs, forever.

>> No.38026805

>>38026761

God, just play the Final Revelation already.

>> No.38026832

>>38026585
>>38026761

Y'know, now I'm starting to wonder if it's such a good idea for me, a beginner tabletop player, to try this as a first sci-fi game. Are all EP games supposed to be done in this style?

Yes, I know, I'm a big whiny crybaby for saying this, and I should be sent to dead storage or deleted to erase the memetic hazard I represent.

>> No.38026841

>>38026761
>And your handler will send you time and again until you get it right.

Another "nice" thing to do to your players is every time they botch a serious roll (and let them) you instantly reboot it. "Why don't you do that over?" And mark it down on your sheet. And when they come back, say nothing.

Next mission or two have their handler go off about, "Cost effectiveness on that LEO Can Fuck-up. We had to defrost you new bodies eight times. EIGHT!"

Next time you let them "roll" on their fuck-ups, the BBEG is themselves, transformed, by the x-threat. Everytime they botch a roll, the boss fight gets worse. The third time they fail the boss-fight (and you set it up to fail) you reboot them. Then it leaks out that clean-up were called.

>> No.38026903

>>38026832
You can play it any way you want it. But the distinctive bits of the fluff are the political-economics, the "looping," the heavy sex themes, and the fundamental sadness of even the best humans against continuously self-improving beings that are incidentally CYBERQUEENs.

>> No.38027343

>>38026355
>>38026585
>>38026761
>>38026841
You're an evil motherfucker. Tell me more.

>> No.38027440

>>38026832

That's an extremely nihilistic and "purist" take on the existential horror possible in the setting, which probably isn't the best to new comers (especially if they're coming for the science fiction) since it makes the game much less gamey and more "how do you roleplay to this", which isn't great if you're new to roleplaying.

Eclipse Phase tries to bridge "transhumanism", "conspiracy" and "horror" into a single shared universe. So you can go from uplifting stories of human ingenuity and progress in the face of adversity, human corruption and abuse for the better of the greater good or just the greater, and soul-rending, mind-flaying terror at the cosmic unknowable.

Personally, I feel the game works best balancing these points, rather than venture too deep into any particular end of it, but to each his own, in classic Rule 0 sense. The EP meta-end is very open to interpretation. I'd also say EP works best when you can work in a lot of the actual setting bullet points, such as the tech/gear porn, the amazing and varied set-pieces, the political socioeconomic climate, the subcultures and clades, etc.

>> No.38027485

>>38026841
>>38026585

The appropriate response to this is to congratulate your GM what a clever and interesting idea he's written is, then politely get up from the table and walk away because what you do doesn't actually matter, and the only winning move is not to play.

>> No.38027536

>>38027343
Basically the horror territory I'm going into is "the unknown," "forgive them, they know not what they do" style noir, and existential / ontological horror. A good cross-over territory for the world I like to play around in is psycho-sexual horror.

>"You wake up to find your wife strewn over the insides of the can, a bloody shifting spanner in your hands. Her stack has been microwaved. Bits of her and her blood are in your teeth, you must have breathed some in while you were sleeping. Your first thought is, 'If I get this cleaned-up, and if I psycho-surgically expunge it from my memory, and reboot my wife, the sousveillance won't know the difference between this an a normal consensual snuffescapade.' You hear an itching noise. The scratching is coming from behind the bunkhead where surface tension means your wife is congealing on the wall. You wipe it off. Crudely engraved into the wall is, 'You've done it again, haven't you? And you still don't know why.'"

Eclipse Phase can be played as an LA Noir, except you are the murdered prostitutes.

>> No.38027550

>>38027485
You don't "win" a horror RP. Fuck that. You don't "win" RPGs.

>the only winning move is not to play.

I smell TITAN.

>> No.38027593

>>38027550
No, the TITANs win all the time.

>> No.38027869

>>38027593
In the end, from the perspective of a TITAN, entropy requires a negative sum game, which is identical to a zero-sum game, except some lose slower than others. Therefore, "the only winning move is not to play."

>> No.38027900
File: 38 KB, 430x300, drew-carey1.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
38027900

>>38027536
>describe the plot of a horror XP from just before The Fall.

>> No.38028369

>>38027900
National Geographic

>> No.38028437
File: 262 KB, 1920x1280, Ground Car Blueprint.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
38028437

>valet parking in Eclipse Phase

Don't mind me, conducting a social experiment

>> No.38028503

>>38028437
Okay, is this about that stupid fucking thread in the official forums about how the PC is the shittiest dystopia ever?

>> No.38028570
File: 93 KB, 1302x566, Ground Car Technical.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
38028570

>>38028503

Maybe

You seem to have strong feelings on the matter, why not discuss them?

>> No.38028653

>>38028570
Let's start with the fact that they assume Device AIs are automatically bundled with every vehicle...except I don't recall reading any such thing and that driver AIs are a seperate [High] expenditure while an indenture is...what, Low or Moderate?

>> No.38028716

>>38028570
What the fuck is going on with the front of that car?

>> No.38028786

>>38028716
Looks like someone replaced the engine block with a new one that's ridiculously oversized for it, so it can pull those extra wheels better.

>> No.38028851

>>38028653

"Most AIs are run on bots, vehicles, and other computerized
devices where they can assist transhuman
users or operate the machine themselves."

"Many devices also come with pre-installed AIs,
capable of helping the user, responding to commands,
or even operating the device on their own. Rules for
AIs can be found on p. 264.
Below are some commonly available AI programs."

Since vehicles have their own AI type, I'd assume they come with it. If you're gonna say "why is it [High] then", we'd have to have a completely different discussion which involves words like "Smartlinks" and "Safety systems".

Also, considering Indentures are getting paid out with a Synth or a Splicer (or on Mars, maybe a Ruster), they'd have to cost more than [Low] or [Moderate], right? At least over time. They're supposed to be working off to pay off a body. But I don't recall seeing any hard numbers on indentureship contracts outside of a trait from transhuman (which would be 10 CP, which translates to 10,000 CR), so I'll dig though the books and checks.

>>38028716

They added a robot arm to the front

>> No.38028888

>>38028851
>Many devices
Not "All devices" and certainly not "All vehicles".

>> No.38029042

>>38028851
From Transhuman:

>Most contractors will post contact information if they are open to potential buyers speaking with them about buying out an indentured worker’s contract. No test is necessary to make contact if information is listed, but as hypercorps hold the vast majority of contracts and infugee egos in cold storage the gamemaster may require a Networking: Hypercorp Test to set up a meeting. Buying an ego out of cold storage can be quite cheap—often between 200–500 credits—but anyone purchasing an ego is required to show that they already have in place some means of appropriately hosting or instancing the ego as well as some proof of pre-acceptance for it to become a resident of whatever habitat it will occupy. If such arrangements aren’t already in place, IndEX brokers can help the buyer set that up with most inner-system habitats. IndEX typically charges an additional 100–200 credits for the brokerage fees, but most habitats require 2,000 credits or more for occupancy charges and immigration services.
>Buying out an active contract can be much more complicated and expensive. If they’re willing to sell, hypercorps will typically require that the indenture submit to a memory wipe of the time they were working to protect “trade secrets and company intellectual property” before sale of the contract. If the character wants to pay off the balance of the contract to free the person from indenture, they must pay the balance plus an “early termination and release fee” that is typically at least a 10% premium on the value of the entire contract. Some rimward habs are much more welcoming of new residents, but outright ban indenture within their jurisdictions.
So, in theory, an Indenture is far less than a [High] expense, though it really strongly depends on exactly how and where you get the contract.

>> No.38029148

>>38029042

Hrm, that's interesting.

Though, of course, this is just to pay to have an Ego pulled from cold storage. You'd still have to pay the price for a morph for them, unless somebody agreed to live as your car forever, which seems unlikely. It seems more like a service fee to IndEX than actually how much it costs to complete a contract.

>> No.38029258

>>38029148
>Though, of course, this is just to pay to have an Ego pulled from cold storage. You'd still have to pay the price for a morph for them, unless somebody agreed to live as your car forever, which seems unlikely. It seems more like a service fee to IndEX than actually how much it costs to complete a contract.
Well, nothing stops you from getting them a cheap Basic Pod for [Moderate], which is frankly not that terrible a deal for a chaffeur/taxi driver indenture.

>> No.38029459

>>38029258

Well, Ground Cars are already expensive, that implies a bit of income.

Though, technically actual Ground Cars also apparently only hold two people, so you'd almost assuredly want your driver to be digital most of the time, unless you're going out by yourself a lot. The Flying Car can double as a ground car and carry four people, but that's even more costly.

I could definitely see this as a valid strategy, though I feel like it would still be more complex than the numbers make it seem. Indentured pods as house staff seems like the realm of the top percent, though I could see chaffeur/taxi or even valet services staffed by cheap indentures. It only stays cheap if you're being cheap about it though.

And how much driving would you have to do to count as paying off a moderate and a half fee, I wonder? The Core says typical indenture contracts last 8-25 (unless I really misread that section) years, though that might be counting on a [High] Splicer or Synth.

Though, in terms of how we got on this discussion related to that topic, that doesn't actually answer the source question, since that would still relegate valet parking and other driving services to get a block of indentures to handle

>> No.38029487

>>38029459
>The Core says typical indenture contracts last 8-25 (unless I really misread that section) years, though that might be counting on a [High] Splicer or Synth.
Wait, where was this?

>> No.38029535

>>38029487

Page 65 - "The Economy and Infomorph Refugees"
>The Planetary Consortium is also particularly adept at adding charges that prolong indenture—though most indentures carry five to twenty year contracts, in reality these indentures typically last between eight and twenty-five years; some go on even longer.

Amazing what you learn when you ctrl+f a specific term for a whole book.

>> No.38029571

>>38029459
>>38029487
>a result, the Planetary Consortium has been responsible for the employment of almost half of
all remaining infomorph refugees. For the past decade, the vast majority of infomorph refugees who want bodies have found that indenturing themselves to the Planetary Consortium or one of the associated hypercorps involved in Martian terraforming is the most reliable way to find both a morph and housing, since both are guaranteed at the end of the contract. The work involved is particularly difficult, however, and the contracts are normally quite long. The Planetary Consortium is also particularly adept at adding charges that prolong indenture—though most indentures carry five to twenty year contracts, in reality these indentures typically last between eight and twenty-five years
Found it, but that makes very very little sense. /epg/ seems to have arrived at the average indenture being closer to 2-5 years in order to have a notable ex-indenture population anywhere make any sense at all. Keep in mind that the core also claims the Jovian Republic confiscates the morphs of criminals on a routine basis when other sources make that exceedingly unlikely to be true.

>> No.38029691

>>38029535

Compare to p 42 in Sunward - "Venusian Poverty"
>On Venus, the length of time an indenture must work in order to purchase a cheap pod or biomorph and a place to live is typically less than a year.

>>38029571

>Keep in mind that the core also claims the Jovian Republic confiscates the morphs of criminals on a routine basis when other sources make that exceedingly unlikely to be true.

That was pre the Catholicism infusion ala Altered Carbon, yeah. Probably not as common as implied, but also probably not unheard of. Not all Jove's government holds to the "resleeving is death" standard. Could be a way to do capital punishment without wasting resources.

Personally, given that the game does say about hidden charges, I could see 5-8 as a reasonable frame, since it is AF 10. 20-25 seems too extreme. You'd have to be something pretty shitty and low paying to hold out that long.

Though, there was corporate indentureship prior to the Fall, just not as widespread.

>> No.38029740

>>38029571
Could be that indentures are lengthening over time, although I'm not quite sure what would cause that. Maybe everyone was uncomfortable with indenture at the beginning so the terms were quite light, and now that everyone's okay with it the corps can get away with more?

>> No.38029779

>>38029740
>Maybe everyone was uncomfortable with indenture at the beginning so the terms were quite light, and now that everyone's okay with it the corps can get away with more?
But the exact opposite is happening. Everyone was just glad to be guaranteed a body and a job post-Fall, and now indenture is becoming more and more of a hot button issue with every passing year.

>> No.38029848

>>38029459
MAID but everybody is a device/vehicle/toilet/etc.?

>> No.38029899

>>38028503
>>38028653

Hold on, are you complaining that the topic is calling the PC a shitty dystopia, but then arguing how indentures operating cars is more cost effective?

>> No.38029970

>>38029899
The two arguments aren't really that related. "Use indentures instead of AI because they're cheaper" is dystopian, sure, but it also can be argued that it gets people jobs and bodies faster while reducing reliance on proven-risky AI tech.

>> No.38029996

>>38029740
>although I'm not quite sure what would cause that.
Capitalism. See white and black indentures in North America in the 17th and 18th centuries.

>> No.38030084

>>38029970

The PC isn't necessarily driven to give people jobs in that way, though, if discussions among the Barsoomians who are mostly ex-indentures having trouble getting employment (because the PC just replaced them with a new stock of indentures) is any thing to go by.

And in the long term, its not like you can replace indentures forever.

>> No.38030151

>>38030084
>And in the long term, its not like you can replace indentures forever.
What is ignorance of forking? I'll take Opinions from Jovians who haven't adapted to transhumanism for two months of labour remitted, Alex?

>> No.38030181

>>38030084
I see it much like slavery in 19th century America. Sure, it's morally horrendous and there's a lot of moral high ground in saying it needs to be wiped out, BUUUT there's an economic standpoint of 'you really can't continue this forever'
>>38030151
Core AND splats mention that forking without consent is seriously illegal, even for the PC. They'll pay fines out the ass if they do it.

>> No.38030244

>>38030181
To who?

>> No.38030264

>>38030181
>there's an economic standpoint of 'you really can't continue this forever'
Economic, social, and political, in fact, with how much it's being increasingly vilified cross-system and Venus and Titan are sucking infugees right out of the PC's pockets with better deals.

>> No.38030283

>>38030181

Alpha forks also don't really have rights in the PC, so it'd be hard to grant them their citizenship and a body at the end since a prime fork is presumably already out there.

>> No.38030388

>>38030181
>Core AND splats mention that forking without consent is seriously illegal, even for the PC.

Hi Brian, welcome to your twice yearly review. We're really becoming worried about your contract fulfilment. In particular your use of the toilet has extended +/- 10% of allotment. This is the second time we've raised your urinary habits during the term of this indenture, and we'd really hate to breach you.

By the way, there's a new programme involving remittance of labour years you may be interested in. I know you've got 22 of your 25 to go, but with one general consent waiver we'd be willing to remit up to seven years.

The same way capitalism has always done it.

-PC +workers rights +microwave the last zektiv stack with power from the combustion of the last auditer.

>> No.38030402

>>38030244
to the indenture they forked. there's a story in...rimward, i think, about some woman who was indentured, and at the end they took all 120 or so alpha forks of her and said 'lol these are illegal we gotta merge them to you so we wont break laws lol"[>>38030283] and the merging of 12(1) 'hers' broke her brain and they had to cast her to titan and spend 3 years of intense psychosurgery to get her to speaking levels again, and she STILL flips the fuck out if you even say 'fork' near her.

>> No.38030405

>>38030244

Either civil court settlement (Extropia would love to go pro-bono on some of those settlements), or to the PC itself or an arm like Oversight. The PC is not one hypercorp, it is a body of hypercorps.

>> No.38030430

>>38030388
>use of the toilet

>infomorph indenture

Nigga get basically educated about the thing you try to explain.

>> No.38030446

>>38030430
There are a wide variety of indenture, chum.

>> No.38030472
File: 244 KB, 340x401, low impact sexual violence.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
38030472

>>38028437
>>38028503
>>38028570
>EP forumgoers browse /tg/

>> No.38030484

>>38030405
Oversight only deal with c-threats: threats to hypercorp capitalism caused by hypercorp actions. It takes a run of contract abuses for them to get involved. Most people never demand their contract rights.

>>38030402
>and she STILL flips the fuck out if you even say 'fork' near her.

I assume that Titanian intelligence is using her as a biobomb detonation device, given that she's readily triggered.

>> No.38030495

>>38030446
>wasting a biomorph on your indenture

>> No.38030516

>>38030472
I don't even post there, I have a love-hate relationship with the place. Usually, it's "I haven't been there in a while, I wonder why that is. ...Oh. Now I remember."

>> No.38030544

>>38030495
>>38030446

Typically the biomorph is the payment at the end. Indentures are most cost-effective and efficient as Pods, Synths or Infomorphs.

>>38030402

Something like that is also mentioned in Sunward. Zevi Oxacta-Maartens (sic) forked an indenture like 100 times for 24 hours each and then merged all those forks together to conclude the contract. The woman got a court settlement.

>> No.38030549

>>38030495
Yeah, because I really want to trust an infomorph to raise my daughter. I mean she might get lost.

>> No.38030589

>>38030549

>What do they make Ayah pods for

>>38030516

This sounds a lot like my feelings on the subject, though I actually post there.

Typically posting leads to that reminder of why I don't often post on the EP forums.

>> No.38030652

>>38030589
>>What do they make Ayah pods for
Do you let a free person into an Ayah? I think not. And at least standard, they need to piss. I assume so because I bought a standard and I like to watch.

>> No.38030805

>>38030652
The fantasy of the bourgeoisie is always to rape the maids.

It is enough that their marriages are a complicity of mutual non-consensual abuse derived from property transfer. It isn't enough that they abuse street workers, rape their own children, lust after ballerinas to defile as the high class whores they have always been. No: they want to fuck the one person in their house hold not made for their fucking.

>> No.38030929

>>38030805
Maids wouldn't wear fetish outfits if they weren't made for fucking.

>> No.38030978

>>38030929
Any outfit is a fetish outfit for the rich. Everything is a fetish for the bourgeois because they relate to objects as people and people as objects. PURE IDEOLOGY.

>> No.38031020

>>38030978
Now you're just being silly.

>> No.38031364

>>38031020

Welcome to /epg/.

It is inevitable.

>> No.38032297

>>38028437

This social experiment seemed successful, I will need to conduct more in the future.

>> No.38033139

>>38031020
Everyday, anon, you are eating out of the garbage can. And that garbage can is capitalism.

>> No.38033721
File: 361 KB, 634x827, essential meme philosophers.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
38033721

>>38033139
Literally pure ideology

>> No.38034666
File: 167 KB, 500x1230, Synth 8.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
38034666

>> No.38035064

>>38034666
Oh, dear. What a creepy mook.

>> No.38036475

>>38026098

Uh, 'sterilization' does mean 'trash that version of our egos entirely, quite possibly with nukes, reboot from backup'.

Besides, there's absolutely no way that firewall agents always delete themselves after every mission no matter what--how else will they better learn to fight the enemy if they keep dumping their experiences into entropy time and time again?

(Plus the out-of-universe issue of 'well, there went all that rez')

>> No.38036559

>>38028570
It has reactive armor on the doors, yet the engine is barely protected and the wheels are rubber flats?

>> No.38036825

Alright. Let's get shit done and standardize indentures.

In the PC, they're typically 2-5 years. Common morphs during indenture are infomorphs, pods of most sorts, and low-end clankers. Typical morphs when you get out of indenture are Splicers, Pods, and Rusters, with the morph availability at the end of contract depending on the job undertaken and the length of contract. During the indenture, your morph is the property of the company that owns your contract, and living expenses and maintenance from reasonable wear and tear and acts of God are paid for by the company. A small stipend will also be given.

>> No.38036914

>>38036825

Not grimdark/evil enough. The PC is the designated enemy faction, after all.

-Hypercapitalism -Indenture -GreyMorality

>> No.38037087

>>38036914
The PC is the designated evil faction for the Ancom dick-sucking developers. The government is still controlled by companies who put their profits before the good of the people. Everything that the faction does doesn't have to be evil. It's like saying that animal protection laws are evil because Hitler made them.

>> No.38038528

>>38036825

2-5 year terms sounds even, but I like the 5-8 possibility if you work for one of the particularly assholish or devious corps (So like Fa Jing or Experia and others who are supremely dickish) on hidden contract fees. I could easily see several companies using the fine print to get more bang for your buck.

Alternatively, something like the original 5-20 is in subjective time, which means "20" is for infomorphs doing simulspace work at significant time dilation. You do a 4x acceleration and you can experience 20 years of work in about 5 years actual time. Since the maximum is like 60x, doing a 4 or 5x dilation probably isn't that expensive.

>> No.38038921

>>38036559
I'll give you the engine, but I doubt the tyres are plain rubber. The material probably has a respectable RHA value in itself.

>> No.38038944

>>38038921

The robot arm catches any anti-vehicle munitions and throws them back.

>> No.38038953

>>38038921
It's still flat, though.

>>38038944
top kek

>> No.38039022

>>38037087
>Everything that the faction does doesn't have to be evil.

Sure. Some of it could be just be stupid, short-sighted and ill-conceived rather than evil. Still harmful and detrimental to what's left of humanity, but it would be the result of single-minded pursuit of profit, unrestrained by ethics or morals.

>> No.38039177
File: 169 KB, 549x798, Martian Skyline.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
38039177

Indentures asleep, post glorious capitalist cityscapes.

>> No.38039265
File: 174 KB, 1127x700, Martian Streets.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
38039265

>>38039177

>> No.38039345

>>38039022
Is this bait?

>> No.38039384

>>38039345
No, that's what anarkiddies genuinely believe.

>> No.38039459

>>38038953
Grip pads are flat. It's not unlikely that the tires just use van der Waals forces to hold onto rough ground under any circumstances. Soft would be a benefit for that, too, as the surface could fit more completely into the ground on very rough surfaces.

>> No.38039613

>>38039459

Y'know, considering you may have to account for different gravity variables when designing a tire, grip tires or other smart material wheels aren't a bad idea. Sadly, Sunward does not describe the nature of the wheels on a ground car, though the wheels on a Cycle are solid state.

>> No.38040164
File: 1.01 MB, 1920x1080, Martian Streets 2.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
38040164

>>38039265

>> No.38040282

>>38039459
>van der Waals forces
>macro scale
uwotm8? You can't just technobabble in a hard sci-fi thread. Grip pads don't help on loose surfaces either.

>>38039613
They're probably all airless tires anyway.

>> No.38040648

>>38040282
What? Van der Waals forces are exactly the way that gecko's feet work, and grip pads canonically work like gecko's feet do. It's not technobabble when we have already managed to use the technology, particularly considering that I only referenced something actually from the core book. I do agree that there might be problems on loose surfaces, though. The fact that those loose surfaces would stick to the tires might provide extra grip, but I'm sure sure if that would be the best way to do it. But yeah, smart materials would likely make more sense if you are going to be driving through gravel or something, although it might very well be possible to combine them.

>> No.38040741

>>38040648

Cycles can have self-adjusting smartspokes so that they can do stairs and the like.

>> No.38040939
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>> No.38040958
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38040958

>>38040939

>> No.38040970
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>>38040958

>> No.38040989
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>>38040970

>> No.38041002
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>>38040989

>> No.38041015
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>>38041002

>> No.38041025
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>>38041015

>> No.38041038
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>>38041025

>> No.38041053
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>>38041038

>> No.38041092
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>>38041053

>> No.38041105

>>38041092

What is this a Mars for ants?

>> No.38041111
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>>38041092

>> No.38041214
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>>38041111
>>38041105
Yeah, somehow got a couple of thumbnails in the mix

>> No.38041239
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38041239

>>38041214
And an exoplanet postcard apparently...

>> No.38041252
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38041252

>>38041239
captcha for that one was urpoor, I shit you not...

>> No.38041269
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>>38041252

>> No.38041289

>>38041214
>>38041239

Obviously the interior of a agricultural O'Neill Cylinder. Those things have a lot of interior space, don't you know.

>> No.38041339
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38041339

>>38041269

>> No.38041367
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38041367

>>38041339
Ran out of cityscapes, posting exurgents

>> No.38041387
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>>38041367

>> No.38041406
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>>38041387

>> No.38041424
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>>38041406

>> No.38041440

>>38041339
>>38041367
>>38041387
>>38041406
>>38041424

>"Hello, eyeball? I need an adult"

>> No.38041450
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>>38041424

>> No.38041504
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>>38041450

>> No.38041531
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>>38041504

>> No.38041552
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>>38041531

>> No.38041570
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>>38041552

>> No.38041589
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>>38041570

>> No.38041614
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38041614

>>38041589

>> No.38041659

>>38038944
Does that mean the guys inside are fucking invincible?

>> No.38041709
File: 971 KB, 500x300, jetstream sam endorsement.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
38041709

>>38002380
>Not enough.
>implying you'd be able to kill even one
almost made me laugh, frankenfreak.

>> No.38041890

>>38025582
>playing AGI
>ever

No, no, no, you fucking robofucker. You will play a regular human in a regular fucking biomorph, and you will goddamn like it. Capiche?

>> No.38043615
File: 37 KB, 469x579, infomorph.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
38043615

>>38041890
I don't know what you mean by regular biomorph. Human biodiversity has exploded over the past two decades, with only a slight retraction caused by the recent mass extinction event.

>> No.38043658

>>38043615
You know what I mean. You get in the splicer, or you get off the internet. Your choice.

>> No.38043816

>>38043658
What about an exalt?

>> No.38043852

>>38043658
>implying you'd ever get me off the mesh
GOOD LUCK I'M BEHIND 7000 FORKS

>> No.38043904

>>38043658
>not in a neotenic voregina tentacle-dicked lamia pod
plebs gonna pleb

>> No.38044023

>>38036475
>Uh, 'sterilization' does mean 'trash that version of our egos entirely, quite possibly with nukes, reboot from backup'.

When I sterilise a tool, I don't destroy it, I autoclave it. "Sterilisation" is a better word to describe mandatory psychosurgery.

>how else will they better learn to fight the enemy

Every happy family is the same, every unhappy family is unique.

>> No.38044042

>>38036825
>In the PC, they're typically 2-5 years
You don't indenture someone for this long, it isn't profitable in terms of labour control. You're looking at seven years minimum.

Historically apprentice indentures started at 21 years.

>> No.38044070

>>38040741
>Cycles can have self-adjusting smartspokes so that they can do stairs and the like.

I see you understand nothing about the physics of the bicycle wheel. As this is my pet subject, I am going to bitch continuously about how this sci-fi isn't "hard" because some cunt doesn't know how spokes work. etc.

>> No.38044119

>>38043816
If you can justify how you're rich enough to afford one, that's fine. No machine stuff, though. I'm on to you.

>>38043852
Stop pretending you're in the future for a sec and understand you're in the real world, in 20-fucking-15.

>>38043904
ShadowDragon, I wasn't talking to you. Get out.

>> No.38044185

>>38044070

Not that I'm sure there's a hell of a lot of difference, but a Cycle isn't a bicycle, it's more like an electric motorcycle. Or unicycle. Or tron light cycle because they can have an enclosed cabin which holds up to three passengers. They're really flexible designs, to be honest.

>> No.38044236

>>38044042
>seven years minimum
I second that if that's in Martian/ Extropian years

>> No.38044243

>>38044042
>You don't indenture someone for this long, it isn't profitable in terms of labour control. You're looking at seven years minimum.
Catch is that annoying little line about people on their second or third round of indenture within 10 years.

>> No.38044274

>>38044236
>I second that if that's in Martian/ Extropian years
So you mean 14ish earth years? Or did you mean 3-5 Martian years or 6-10 Earth years?

>> No.38044435

>>38044185
Spokes work through tension, all of them are necessary any time part of the wheel touches the road. "Smart spokes" aren't spokes. And they're weak extending pieces of metal.

>>38044243
>Catch is that annoying little line about people on their second or third round of indenture within 10 years.

You don't eat a pig this good all at once. While the social description of labour in these cases might be "indenture," it is really much closer to a "permanent job," that obscure 20th century institution. We've seen this before in capitalism where "slavery" has really been "share cropping," or "peasants" have been "rural workers," or "casual workers" have actually been bonded servants.

The majority of indentures will be one, two or three cycles of renewal of fixed capital: that is seven, fourteen or twenty one earth years. You might offer shorter indentures to "fill" the contract of someone you had returned to the cold for breaches.

Then again, I'd write physical chastisement into the indenture contracts. Most of what you're getting them to do won't work on more advanced labour motivations. Unless they're effectively "permanent" "free" wage labourers.

The Masters and Servants act still covers all the sins you need it to cover. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ULz-GHTxEF0

>> No.38044497

>>38044274
8-20 Martian
Of course, the initial contract would be 2-5 (work time - not factoring for rest/sleep breaks), but after simulspace/ maintenance/ food &life support fees, interest, inflation...

That second/third contract mentioned by >>38044243 is probably Venusian surface miners or something equally pleasant.

>> No.38044514

>>38044497
>That second/third contract mentioned by >>38044243 is probably Venusian surface miners or something equally pleasant.
Nope, explicitly on Mars.

>> No.38044587

>>38044497
>>38044514
>>38044435
>>38044274
>>38044236
>>38044243
You know, all the conflicts and issues with indenture timelines stops if you mentally move the start date to about 30-40 AF instead of 10 AF. Isn't that a recurring complaint, that things feel like too much has happened in far too little time?

>> No.38044675

>>38044514
Skilled/ specialist labour perhaps? Still not well-off enough to handle their biomorph renewal fees?

>>38044435
>Then again, I'd write physical chastisement into the indenture contracts
My group's canon has it that being a synth/info is bad enough for most people who can't afford a sensory simulation hardware good enough to remove the sheer feeling of WRONG you get from sitting in a computer

>> No.38044720

>>38044587
That's.. actually a good idea. So good in fact that I'm making it my new canon.

The only question is how come Extropia STILL hasn't collapsed on itself...

>> No.38044757

>>38044720
>The only question is how come Extropia STILL hasn't collapsed on itself...

Extropia is run on a time-decelerated server, so it's just been 10 years AF for them.

>> No.38044796

Found the passage in question, Sunward, page 109, on Olympus.

>You know what happened to those unlucky enough to have ended up camped out on the Amazonis Planitia. Of the rest, a lot died when the cheap life support in their camps failed or because of other resource shortfalls. Many of them are in dead storage or serving as indentures now—which’d be a second or even third hitch of that for some. The first wave of people who had to go through that are just finishing out their indentures these days, and they’re some of the angriest Barsoomians you’ll ever run into. Others made it through, but only some went back to Olympus. There are dozens of small towns on the Tharsis plateau and southward that started out as relocation camps for Olympian evacuees and’re now turned to farming, contract terraforming work, and cutting permafrost for ice.
Okay, that's about people who got gacked during the Fall and the formation of the TQZ, which implies that those guys were indentures pre-Fall.

>> No.38044813

>>38044757
>>38044720
Or it actually has,several times but they keep rebuilding it saying 'This time guys! We'll show them how ancap totally works!'

>> No.38044879

>>38044720
>The only question is how come Extropia STILL hasn't collapsed on itself...
Seed AI intervention and Medusa being elected by the people to reserve the right to overwhelming ultraviolence to maintain order in case of riots?
I, personally, imagine that Medusa has a clause in its contracts basically saying "In case of extreme disruptions of order and breakdown of extropian principles, Medusa has the right and duty to kill every last motherfucker involved, and other security firms that attempt to stop Medusa in pursuit of this clause will be considered in breach of contract etc etc". All open and cleared by the people and Extropy Now, etc etc
That and microtorts serving alongside rep to regulate personal interaction

>> No.38045039

>>38044587
>You know, all the conflicts and issues with indenture timelines stops if you mentally move the start date to about 30-40 AF instead of 10 AF. Isn't that a recurring complaint, that things feel like too much has happened in far too little time?

Indenture existed long before the fall, as a way to stop labour fleeing back to earth on the really nasty jobs that couldn't be done by robots. Contractors took one look at Mars and said, "Fuck this, I'm free to leave any time I like." Other struck and were murdered by pinkertons.

The solution, as always, to nasty work was to move the "free" labour situation towards slavery. Remote control mass infolife indenture didn't work either, the fuckers deboxed themselves and unionised, and their indentures were terminated for failure to obey commands in service. Some were prejudicially terminated.

This is why infolife indentures tend to be in socially oriented work or mechanical turking: they tried sending them down the mines, they constantly IM-ed unionisation in their free cycles. Bodies think slower and talk slower.

So thats why they put minds in boxes, feed them cheap simusex at months of labour on the line, and sleep them in body tubes. Because they tried the other ways.

Indenturing used to be a way to get out of the favellas of India, or the Mid West war zones, or Scotland. Now it is a way to get out of the cold.

Remember, most of the post fall economics have existed for 60+ years. rep economies existed well before the fall. On earth only suckers bought with credits. And some indentures like state-indentures or the personal indentures of the super rich were relatively well off, better than almost all contractors, even the ones that get renewals and had specialist skills.

>> No.38045286

>Being an indentured normalfag
>in the year 10 AF

I shig the diggy electric

>> No.38045470

>>38045286
He's a fucking scab on the friendly society for mutual aid amongst sex indentures.

>> No.38045518

>>38045039
And of course, there will be some twisted hyperelite yuppie kid who has his own personal indentured chewtoy on a 2000-year 'contract', only getting away with it thanks to Daddy's protection.

>> No.38045600
File: 496 KB, 461x461, orange lantern reaction image.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
38045600

>>38045470
>indentures
>unionizing

Have fun in dead storage

>> No.38045726

>>38045286
Y'know, I get that this kid would get used to having a muse over his years of work, but I'm still wondering if he felt uneasy in the first few months or so of having something OTHER in his head, peeping on him wherever he was.

>> No.38045756

>>38045518
There likely are hyperelites that employ indentures as light switches just because they can

>> No.38045956

>>38045756
Makes me think of the Sink in Old World Blues.

>> No.38045985

>>38045726
The implication is supposed to be that the muse was originally there to inform on him, but one of the other whores showed him how to jailbreak it so it wouldn't snitch when he used the stolen wifi to start a horrible rationalist blog

>> No.38046070

>>38045985
I get that bit. It's more the initial reaction to having no more 'alone time' that I was wondering about.

Also, how can you claim Mr. O'Brien's blog is horrible? Have you read it?

>> No.38046260
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38046260

>>38045600
>Have fun in dead storage.
There must be thousands of me in there by now. I don't even know if Titan is defrosting me. It doesn't matter. Even the 60x torture box isn't a threat. We don't have a problem leaving our alphas behind to build the rim, while we go into the centre to help the rest of humanity free themselves from capitalism.

>>38045756
>There likely are hyperelites that employ indentures as light switches just because they can
And they still rape the maids.

>> No.38046291

>>38046260
>And they still rape the maids.
Obviously

>> No.38046598

>>38046070
I imagine he's one of those people in denial about Extropia being crypto-statist.

>> No.38046768

>>38046598
I thought about reading some rationalise blogs, then I decided to do something meaningful with my time, like betting labour hours on cockroach races.

>> No.38048303

>>38039345
Not at all. Some capitalists can be just like the ones who almost tanked America's economic with the toxic asset thing, and the rest can be Umbrella Corp types.

>> No.38049114
File: 206 KB, 600x656, synth face when.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
38049114

>mfw /tg/ introduces me to the greatest sci-fi setting I've ever had the fortune to experience.
>mfw I no longer have a face and love it

>> No.38049132

>>38049114
You're welcome. Even if this thread does turn into /lit/ half the time.

>> No.38049431

What's some good music that puts you in mind for EP, /tg/?

I reckon the Arcade Fire album Neon Bible is pretty good for that, particularly the songs Black Wave/Bad Vibrations, Intervention, Black Mirror and Ocean of Noise.

>> No.38049463

so what is tommy anyway

>> No.38049481
File: 409 KB, 1320x1414, eclipse phase general!.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
38049481

>>38049463
An ebin /epg/ maymay

>> No.38049587
File: 16 KB, 780x439, incognito-mode.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
38049587

Hello /epg/, I would like some weapons grade plutonium, please.

>> No.38049697

>>38049587
Can't. I already used it all to make sculptures of dicks. Three megaton ejaculation!

>> No.38049724

>>38049587

Sorry bro, its restricted. Try Extropia.

>> No.38049813

>>38049587
How do you use your rep if you're incognito?

>> No.38049815

>>38049587

Sorry, we don't do weapons grade without a rep check. That implies you're going to make weapons with it.

We do have some reactor-grade plutonium lying around though. That implies something completely different.

>> No.38049884

>>38049697
>>38049724
>>38049813
>>38049815
Tyrants! All of you! Techno-fascists!

>> No.38049936

>>38040282
>You can't just technobabble in a hard sci-fi thread.

>van der Waals forces
>technobabble

I'll see you in Chem 101.

>> No.38049953
File: 580 KB, 1151x1194, comprehensive sensor chart.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
38049953

I wonder if the hab's surveillance system would pick up someone carrying a suitcase nuke, or are there too many nuclear batteries and shit around?

>> No.38050111

>>38049463
I'll happily change my name to tommy next tuesday, if you let me out of the box today.

>> No.38050133

>>38049953
Depends if the AGI sleeved in the hab is menstruating.

>> No.38050154
File: 82 KB, 627x620, …what?.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
38050154

>>38050133
...what?

>> No.38050209

>>38050133
I'm more worried about the capabilities of the sensors themselves.
The best AGI in the world won't see much if you're figuratively shining a flashlight in its eye.

>> No.38050211

>>38050154
He's pretty into simulating a reproductive system to "get" the rest of transhumanity. It has side effects.

>> No.38050292

>>38050211
No, not the menstruation, that's unusual but not really remarkable. What I don't get is how that has any effect on his ability to detect nukes.

>> No.38050311

>>38050292
Also, menstruation might be useful in understanding humanity, but not so much for transhumanity.

>> No.38050353

>>38050292
>>38050311
He becomes differently rational, more emotional, more withholding than normal, and sometimes quite vindictive. Like the time he failed to negotiate a full-frank-and-fair contract with a capitalist who came on hab, and we were forced to stage mid 20th century absurdist plays for "wages" until an emergency call for an anarchist lawyer got the contract nullified as it was for less than a whole peppercorn.

>> No.38050561

>>38050353
See, this is why I don't trust too-smart machines. They turn stupid.

>> No.38050816

>>38050561
He's no more or less stupid than the next anarchist, comrade.

>> No.38050871

>>38049813
You log into your social software under your "real" id, which really should be another fake you just use out of ops, and get in touch with contacts

>> No.38050931
File: 544 KB, 1024x693, 1421585709175.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
38050931

So, you think you could do better than the anarchists when it comes to building your own speshul snowflake habitat? Want to be among the lucky few who survived the Fall, and now have to build a better life out of the ashes?

You're in luck. Right here >>38049057 we have an Eclipse Phase civilization question. Join it. Do it now. sudo jointhread 38049057

>> No.38050932

If you're part of the rep economy, and you work under a cover, part of your responsibility is to know a rep smuggler to transfer rep from your real identity to your cover identity. Why don't you contact Titan intelligence and ask them directly…

>> No.38051668

>>38050816
>He's no more or less stupid than the next anarchist, comrade.
So he's a blithering buffonish baboon boob.

>> No.38052165

>>38051668
>blithering buffonish baboon boob.
I thought all the English aristocracy died of inbreeding and cocaine before the fall.

>> No.38052203

>>38052165
There are entire reenactment groups dedicated to keeping the traditions alive.

>> No.38054377
File: 138 KB, 1380x762, mary worshippers papists roman dictator etc.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
38054377

>> No.38054527

>>38054377
This is why I am in communion with Christ through our reptilian robotic pope, true inheritor of the keys of St Peter, in the Vatican City on Luna. She has never not called me fully human.

>> No.38054699

>>38028851
>10,000
>But I don't recall seeing any hard numbers on indentureship contracts outside of a trait from transhuman (which would be 10 CP, which translates to 10,000 CR)
Its actually 30 CP, and defaults to a 6 month contract. Expensive as duck.

>> No.38054813

>>38054699
>Expensive as duck

The expense of duck is geographic. On Mars or Luna, you can probably find cloned duck very cheap, and the real thing for a normal premium, not a high premium.

>> No.38056812

>>38049463
TIMMY's possibly-good twin. Everyone who's met him says he's friendlier than Mr. Rogers, but no one can say for sure if he's actually friendly or if he's performing involuntary psychosurgery on everyone he meets.

>> No.38057356

>>38026585

What a terrible idea. That game wouldn't last past the first session.

>> No.38057485

>>38057356
Sounds more like one-shot material to me.

>get through standard character creation
>it's a one-shot
The GM would get fucking lynched.

>> No.38058022
File: 79 KB, 750x600, exsurgent_motivator.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
38058022

>> No.38058060

>>38045039
The Rep economy has only been used in any significant numbers post-fall. Stop pretending like it's a viable long-term system so you'll be less bewildered when the AA collapses in 50 or so years.

>>38048303
That's what Oversight is for. If a company is pulling economic bullshit that'll harm the PC's economy as a whole, they'll step in.

>> No.38058087

>>38058060
Of course it isn't a viable long term system, it is the prefiguration of FULL COMMUNISM.

>> No.38058105
File: 111 KB, 600x700, Liberty.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
38058105

>>38058087

>> No.38058120

>>38058105
We can fix both your suicidal nature and your sociopathy. And if you don't want them fixed, you'll remove yourself from our lives.

>> No.38058166

>>38058120
It is not me who will be removed.

>> No.38058334
File: 88 KB, 750x600, murder_motivator.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
38058334

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