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/tg/ - Traditional Games

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[ERROR] No.37745369 [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

>3 updates canceled in a row with no word
>no sign of the creator in 2 months

Still not willing to admit you were scammed?

>> No.37745396

>draw slutty anime pictures
>make slutty anime models
>be bankrolled by nerds for the rest of your life
>never deliver
I love this guy.

>> No.37745404

>> No.37745420

To be honest it's just like you commissioned these pictures.

>> No.37745422

>Still not willing to admit you were scammed?

I'm dissapointed but not scammed because I didn't put a single buck

>> No.37745437

>Boutique horror fantasy board game & high quality resin miniatures for collectors and painters. Join our mailing list for exclusive news.

Didn't he change to plastic? Why it still says resin?

>> No.37745464

I especially like how the panties are see-through in that one, it gives me hope for the strong business sense of the game maker and the mechanical design of the game.

>> No.37745521

Saying a kickster is a scam is pretty much like calling someone auyistic because you disagree with them. Its completely lost all meaning, and is just the hot new buzzword to use when people are commoting the crime of liking stuff that you don't like.

Its not a scam. Its a shitty business and a failed kick starter from an inept amature designer. It would be a scam if he never planned on delivering, but all evidence just points to him not having the business sense to be able to complete it. Game won't come out, but that doesn't mean it was a scam, since he isn't getting a profit off of it. This campaign just resulted in some VERY happy factory owners, because even if it never delivers, they already got their money.

But stop calling shit a scam when its not. Its just an dude who failed at making a game.

>> No.37745538

They are separate things.

He sells resin minis in the shop, and is 'working' on the board game. His resin business is still booming actually. He just released a new run of minis last month. Sold out in under an hour.

>> No.37745581


Agree, if someone throw money at me every I had draw an idea on a napkin i'd be the next prince of nigerian prince

The guy's mouth is writing checks his body can't cash, but there is a different between coming up with a cool ideas for a game and minis and actually staying on target.

It shouldn't be accept as the norm but this is the path you chosen.

>> No.37745586

You forgot the part where he hasn't even logged in yet.

>> No.37745608


Im starting to think OP is just a backer with buyers remorse trying to start shit up where there is none

This week alone there have been 3 threads with incredibly similiar OPs basically all saying the same thing.

We have a 99.9% chance of samefag here

>> No.37745631

He posted in the comment section like 2 days ago, try again.

>> No.37745642 [DELETED] 

[Spoiler]Nah, I'm a backer and fully supportive of the game and hype to play it. No buyers remorse, just think poots is an idiot and in desperate need of a PR person. Started this cause I'm bored. I didn't start the other threads though

>> No.37745649

>2 days
You mean weeks. And he posted to say there would be an update yesterday. He hasn't logged in to kick starter since the 21st.

>> No.37745652

>in desperate need of a PR person
Show me single company in miniature business that isn't. Hasbro doesn't count.

>> No.37745680

I'm not very informed of this subject, I only know he doesn't deliver.

Would you mind to resume what failed? And what do you mean factory owners already got their money?

>> No.37745681

This is only the second.

Last one just lasted 3 days.

Soda pop. They actually have someone who's job is just "Post on the kick starter every Friday". For Christmas they just posted some pinup art, said merry Christmas, and that was their update. Poots DESPERATELY needs someone to do that.

>> No.37745698

>Giving money via kikeshiller
>Not expecting to get scammed

These threads really remind me that I need to get to concocting my scam for kickstarter/patreon/whatever stupid crowdfunding scheme is popular these days. The amount of money you can make with nothing but halfassed attempts and outright bullshit is utterly amazing.

>> No.37745736

He got over funded, and the factory he was using wouldn't be able to meet the new quota. So he spent most of the kickstarter money buying them a new factory that could meet the scale of production he needed. He then pumped out more and more resin minis online to try to fund the game and get it actually made. So the factory owner gets a bigger factory, even IF kingdom death drops into the red and dies before delivery.

>> No.37745742

>just resulted in some VERY happy factory owners
>tfw China will grow larger

>> No.37745746

>KDM Kickstarter ended 2 years ago.
I just want my things. It's still supposed to be released in the summer, right?

>> No.37745761

Yeah, we're just unsure which year.

>> No.37745765

Last we heard, yes.

Last we heard though, was 2 months ago.

>> No.37745766

>So he spent most of the kickstarter money buying them a new factory that could meet the scale of production he needed.

You cannot be serious.

Is this actually a thing that happened?

>> No.37745787

>Soda pop.
Oh, I haven't been following their projects in a while but now that I look at it you seem to have a point. Maybe there's still hope.

>> No.37745791


>> No.37745798


There is indeed a scam going onnhere, but its not by the project creator. In one of the recent updates, the one where he said he is just gonna stop bothering with release dates, he said it was because the factory pushed his order back so they could work on a larger, more profitable, order they received.

>> No.37745830

On the other hand, the Relic Knights models are god-awful soft resic shit with non-existent facial details...Could I please have a competent company with competent PR?

>> No.37745851

To be fair, I'm not sure I'd call it a 'scam' if you run a factory and someone with piles of cash and absolutely no clue how to use it decides to throw it at you. More like 'not being an idiot'.

>> No.37745856

Kickstarter never ceases to amuse.

You'd think someone would set up the paperwork to stop that kind of stuff happening when investing that much capital.

>> No.37745879

And this is the problem with Kickstarter and other such projects, most people go into business themselves through it. While going into business for yourself is not a bad thing, it requires you to know that there's some shit you want a lawyer for, and that it's necessary to know business practices and the importance of contracts before you start spending the lods'emone.

>> No.37745893

What kind of paperwork? "I hereby certify I have more common sense than a pack of sugar-high ferrets"? Kickstarter is for all manner of projects, wargamings makes a tiny slice of it, you can't have a single paper for IT, electronics, crafts and arts and fucking plastic toys.

Also, KS continue to claim they arre merely a platform and, much like Valve, insist they have no legal responsibility.

>> No.37745903

It being amateur-hour, open-mic business is the biggest reason not to back stuff short of established companies doing their thing (and even then it's iffy).

>> No.37745912

He means with the factory shit not with KS.
If you're going to deal with a third party and invest so much capital with them then you need to protect yourself. He didn't and it appears he got burned for it

>> No.37745915

I believe he meant poots should have established paperwork with the factory owners to say his project would take precedence considering he invested so much into their factories.

>> No.37745926

Yeah, with normal business funding methods you generally have to demonstrate that you have a minimum level of business sense. That all goes out of the window with Kickstarter, which simply requires you to demonstrate to a bunch of people that your idea is cooooooooool.

>> No.37745931

>tfw I backed the minibox storage trays.
>owner stopped updating
>users find his Facebook page
>new laptop
>trip to Mexico
>doesn't even log into kickstarter anymore.

>> No.37745937

That wasn't soda pop, that was CMoN. Soda pop used was a part of them, and after how much CMoN fucked up relic knights, left to do their own thing. Hence why SDE isn't having all the problems of Relic Knights.

>> No.37745956

They've split from Cmon and all the new RK releases are just as awful sculpt-wise.

>> No.37746109


At least two or three anons say this ever kickstarter thread, and nothing ever comes of it.

>> No.37746174

Dude, the new RK releases are literally the first wave just re-packaged. All the RK minis were made at the same time, they just staggered the releases for retail so that they could send everything to the backers at one time first, to make them feel special.

And the special characters still came out totally bitchin', the cosplay minis are all quality pieces.

>> No.37746196

Well, we have different definitions of "quality", and let's leave it at that.

>> No.37746204

Really, at this point there's no point in making yourself upset about it.

We invested money, knowing it was an investment, and with investments come risks. Poots is/was trying, at very least.

I advise this: keep mild hope that it will still see the light of day. Not high hopes or even no hopes. In the end, all it changes is your mood, and emotions are proven to have physical affect on the body. No point in lamenting.

>> No.37746215

So, might as well post some things that people have been able to find by picking apart the updates in more detail.

>There are three kinds of monsters
Monsters come as both Nemesis Monsters (the ones that hunt you) and Query Monsters (the ones you hunt for resources). Some fit separately, like the Watcher and the Scribe, which are just bosses.

Base game: Antelope, White Lion, Pheonix
Lantern Festival: The King
Expansion: Lonely Tree, Gorm, (Dragon King and Sunstalker when playing the base campaign. Possibly the Watcher when playing alternate campaigns)

Base Game: Butcher, Kingsmen, Kings Hand
Lantern Festival: Great Game Hunter
Expansion: Manhunter, Slenderman, Lion God

Base Game: Watcher
Lantern Festival: The Scribe
Expansion: Dragon King, Sunstalker, Spidercles

The Lion Knight, Flower Knight, and Dung Beetle Knight sound like they change based on the kind of culture you develop.

Monsters also don't use their full AI deck. Instead, when you fight a monster you sort its cards into 3 piles, and take a few cards from each pile based on the monsters health and level. For example, the tutorial lion has 10 HP so you grab 7 basic ai cards and 3 advanced ai cards. Higher level monsters will shift more towards advanced, and then to legendary. Monsters also have iconic abilities that they always have access to, like the lion sniffing out prey, the spider spawning minions, or slendies instant kill against insane survivors.

>> No.37746224

Excuse me if I'm being naive (I don't know much about American laws, or the rules of kickstarter), but why aren't those scammers getting prosecuted ? Don't they have their real names and information on their kickstarter account ? Or isn't it considered a scam by the law ?

>> No.37746255

>no factory in China can support KD's production numbers
If he bought a factory in China (or even spent capital upgrading one) he was laughably stupid.

>> No.37746269

This makes sense at least. China runs their production based solely on numbers.

>> No.37746320

I just wish they would make a non-miniature based p&p version. The AI deck can be replaced with a d100

>> No.37746329

The investors for KD haven't been scammed, though. Poots has put out enough updates showcasing physical product where an individual case against him would lose and a class-action would be thrown out.

>> No.37746333


That's pretty much where I'm at. I only got the dragon expansion and a pinup, so I'm only out $60 in the worst case, but I'm still holding out faint hope for seeing my minis someday.

Luckily every other project I've kickstarted has been extremely positive other than having to wait a few extra weeks at the most.

>> No.37746374

Tldr version: Crowd sourcing is weird.

The law doesn't cover failed investments. That's why when someone invests in a project or company, you form a contract that has penalties for not meeting certain goals by certain dates. Those CONTRACTS are legally binding, not the investment itself. This is why so many MMOs go free to play after a month or two. Because they failed to meet their investors return profits, and now need a quick boost of money from the cash shop, as well as to artificially inflate their number of players to fit the projections of the contract, even if it kills the game in the process. This is also why the games World of Warcraft and Final Fantasy XI/XIV still use the subscription model, and will likely never drop it. All 3 games were made on the companies own dime, without investors.

However with crowd sourcing, you don't have that contract. We aren't even buying a product, we are investing in it, and getting free copies of something in return. That's why the pathfinder mmo ks was able to get away with just sending out rulebooks and not the game itself. We aren't BUYING anything. And so its not a failure to deliver a good/service, and the law doesn't regulate investments. And something tells me that you didn't make Poots sign a contract before you backed, did you?

Thenonlynpeople who would even stand a chance in court against him are the people who bought the slacker backer packages, outside of the kickstarter. THEY actually did purchase a product, but even then, Adam does have lawyers, and I'm willing to bet they added a nice little escape clause to the terms of service for their shop, that linked the purchase to the life of the kickstarter.

>> No.37746426

No it can't. See (>>37746215). The AI deck is designed around being different every time you face a monster. Even if you fight the exact same monster, with the same level and spread of cards, it will fight differently than the last one.

Plus, the AI deck is also its health. Damaging a monster removes cards fro. Its AI deck, making it more predictable as the fight goes on.

Doing that with a chart is a book keeping nightmare.

There should be a PnP version, but having the AI deck be a chart instead of just printing out the cards is flat out stupid.

I assume you mean Print and Play. If you mean Pen and Paper, then it should all just be GM controlled instead.

>> No.37746438

That also happened with some card game iirc.

>> No.37746525

Nope, the creator of Katalyka went crazy and is hearing the sun talk to her and stopped working for like 2 years... But she has started resuming work on the game. Its in the process of getting shipped out.

So even the crazy sum chick is doing better at her kick starter than Adam is.

>> No.37746578

pic related (in a nutshell)

>> No.37747252

This is lewd as fuck.

>> No.37747283

That's actually nice to hear. I take no pleasure in suffering of others.

>> No.37747289

Praise the sun.

>> No.37747338

Yeah, the sun worked out its differences with the military, so it no longer needs to remain in hiding, so it gave her permission to release the game again.

>> No.37747893

>So he spent most of the kickstarter money buying them a new factory that could meet the scale of production he needed.

I...don't get that, if he expends so much in the factory all that money invested should be part of the trade isn't it?

If I ask you to produce something for me, then you say you need to improve your structure and I pay to improve that structure, then you can't tell me "Ok, you payed the structure, now you have to pay us for making what you wanted".

The invest should be the payment, isn't it? Or don't know, may be I missunderstood what you said.

>> No.37748051

Anyone have that pic of someone messaging her over KS as "The Sun"?

>> No.37748056

You seem to be operating under the assumption that China has the same laws and personal values as we do.

>> No.37748159

Oh, I thought all the "china factory" thing was a joke.

Personally if I had to produce something I'd look for something local...I mean, you are not Sony or Nike looking for a factory oversees is really stupid.

>> No.37748230

I don't think anyone knows that much about what actually went down/is going down. But
that Murrica has no such thing as unscrupulous businessmen is a pretty funny thing to do.

>> No.37748313

>that Murrica has no such thing as unscrupulous businessmen is a pretty funny thing to do.

Well I don't doubt of that, I'm just saying that is hard to think he just gave the factory guys the money without more

>> No.37748364

>Yeah, with normal business funding methods you generally have to demonstrate that you have a minimum level of business sense.
Not really. You're just demonstrating your cooooooool ideas to rich people instead of the internet. Rich people are just as likely to be victims of a charismatic salesman or fad as anyone else. That's how the dot com bubble happened.

>> No.37748437

I was replying more to >>37748056

But really, I'm pretty sure we don't know shit about what's been happening.

>> No.37748480

Sounds like pootykins got had and didn't have any contracts that would hold the chinks to their word.

Are there even any shops in the US that would handle miniatures manufacturing like this? I imagine it would be more expensive, but at least you don't have to fly to china and deal with a foreign legal system if they try to take your money and run.

>funding a kickstarter
>getting mad when it gets overfunded and some amateur figures out he can't deliver
The whole crowdfunding thing is all about fans taking the risk. Fund somebody with a track record if you can't take the heat, or just keep buying from GW.

>> No.37748834

What is the fascination with ornate lanterns in all this artwork?

Also, the kickstarter has 5410 backers and $2,049,000, so people are giving $400 each or are a few fanatics giving tens of thousand each?

>> No.37749121

IIRC the lanterns are a setting element, people carry around lanterns with their souls in them.

and doesn't the kickstarter page show how many people backed each tier?

>> No.37749562

but anon... MORE money means MORE profit, so clearly he is just rich now and running off with the money because there is no way that overfunding could be BAD?

The setting is pitch black. The entire thing is subterranean. A lot of the monsters can see just fine, but the humans are still human. EVERYBODY has a lantern, because if you don't have one, you are as good as dead.

That doesn't account for people adding the expansions. That said, just counting the Base Game and Survivor levels (including the black friday discount ones), at least 4.2k people pledged for the base game at least.

>> No.37751533

Looking at the page, it seems like there were only about 200 people who were in it for the pinups alone. Thats a much smaller number than I was expecting.

Plus, I think I remember poots saying at one point that the expansions alone outsold the pinups by almost double.

>> No.37754327

so is this game just dead?

>> No.37754606

Post more K:D cheesecake, it's the only good thing that comes out of these threads.

>> No.37757920

cheese cake

>> No.37757967


>> No.37758247

I hvae the wierdst bonr.

>> No.37758390


Ducks disagree with you.

>> No.37758560

i dont regard my bonr weird at all, perhaps you should see a doctor.

>> No.37758636

You always have to be careful with these kinds of things, I have been banned before for getting too close to the line. It may look safe in a thumbnail, but just a little slip of nipple gets you a three day vacation from the NSFW police.

>> No.37758967


>> No.37758996

Not actually true going by the kinds of things I've posted on /tg/ lately. I haven't been banned for a nipple in a long time.

>> No.37759008


>> No.37759084

God... I sure hope those are all tounges

>> No.37759099

Why is she wearing a penis skirt?

>> No.37759198


>> No.37759206

>assumes scammed after JUST two months

Christ man, you must hate Comic Book hiatuses.

>> No.37759274

So ... the point of the game is whoever has the most lanterns, wins?

>> No.37759308


In every thread.

>> No.37759352

Nigger, go the fuck back to /pol/

>> No.37759369

That is what I was worried about, at first glance I thought her clothes were just red leather, but looking a second time I realized it was tongues ... and what I hope are just veiny tongues.

>> No.37759542

Postan what I go.

>> No.37759568


>> No.37759599


>> No.37759628


>> No.37759655


>> No.37759668

Found out about this game late and missed several opportunities to back it (I would buy it without much deliberation).

looks like luck was on my side

>> No.37759678

Oh my god.

>> No.37759687


>> No.37759700

Those are very, very obviously cocks, anon. They have heads and everything.

>> No.37759709


Is he not a great god?

>> No.37759738


Well, she is called SATAN.

>> No.37759780


>> No.37759809


>> No.37759817

Its because too many people are used to high quality games being made by already established companys and being put on kickstarter fully made and just using KS as a pre-order system.

So when a good looking game is actually KICKSTARTED, holy shit there will be hell to pay how DARE this guy not be running a full buisness with a dedicated PR person and regularly scheduled dates to provide information and backup plans when his operation can't scale up to 4000% of what his largest expectations were.

-9001/10, shit company, would not back again, totally a scam.

>> No.37759833


"W-what are you doing here?! Y-you're meant to stay at the camp!"

>> No.37759834

The artist of this stuff has never published nudes, but I can only imagine the staggering quantities of pornography that exist on his hard drive.

>> No.37759866


The artist likes to do other stuff.

>> No.37759871

Holy fuck she is

>> No.37759892


>> No.37759923

Having known multiple pinup artists... probably not a ton. Most of them are basically just going "It sells, and it feels less like selling out than porn does" while others just like drawing the female form without actually caring about the lewds, and ALL of them are surprisingly vanilla dudes. I would not at all be surprised if Lokman is the same way.

Porn sells EXTREMELY well. If he wanted to make porn, he would be.

>> No.37759924

I'd rest between those lamps.

>> No.37759955


>> No.37759974

All I can say is this guy's art makes me feel like he draws a lot of porn, and if he doesn't actually draw a lot of porn that's a criminal waste.

>> No.37759981


>> No.37760003

Now to play Chrono Trigger again.

>> No.37760010 [DELETED] 


>> No.37760048


>> No.37760050

Cool, it's the priest from Berserk.

>> No.37760071


>> No.37760088


>> No.37760115


>> No.37760142

Those legs.

>> No.37760164

Yeah actually. 90% of stuff in Kingdom Death comes from Berserk.

... also wow. I just checked Lokmans account to find this image, and this is the actual filename he uploaded it with. Thats fucking beautiful.

>> No.37760174


I just want KD to come out so I can have nice things as I've never got to back it.

>> No.37760192

It's far more likely to be able to prosecute someone in America than China though.

Anon from previous thread whose family owns chinese factories here. We've had someone fuck us up here before for a million+ and escape to Canada while burying us in legal red tape. In China you don't have above-the-law options to deal with contract violators. The gubmint there doesn't even pretend to care.

>> No.37760193

confirmed for master ruseman

>> No.37760196


"I cast harden~."

>> No.37760223


>> No.37760244


>> No.37760253

You were saying in that thread that a full month of shutdown time is straight up bullshit, and there was something fishy going on. Someone later in the thread though, said that it wasn't ACTUALLY shut down for a month, just that between the winding down, 2 weeks off, massive shift in employees, and then winding back up, it was about a full month in order to get back up to full production levels again. Does that sound more legit to you, or like more bullshit?

Lokman you beautiful bastard.

>> No.37760265


Same here. It's a shame no other fantasy miniature company comes close to KD's level of quality. Not that i've seen anyway.

>> No.37760275


>> No.37760298


I'd still bang it.

>> No.37760330


>> No.37760353


>> No.37760357

More likely the factory is fucking with him. They can be up and running in 3 weeks if they want, 2 if they REALLY want.

But I'm guessing they have him by the short hairs and they know it.

>> No.37760408

And that's all the cheesecake pin up art I have, I think.

>> No.37760436


Now for neat images.

>> No.37760458

I believe the artist has a deal with Poots that a certain amount of the commissioned works he make for KD are pin-ups.

>> No.37760516

That was the sculptor, not Lokman.

I highly doubt Lokman was against the idea, and hell, is probably the guy that put Poots in contact with him, but its not Lokman you're thinking of.

>> No.37760554 [SPOILER] 

>not posting the superior version

>> No.37760566


>> No.37760766


>> No.37760809


>> No.37760835


>> No.37760925


>> No.37760960


>> No.37761057

And that will be it for me.

Hope you enjoyed that little dump.

>> No.37761797


>>*Will include optional shirt

Yes, because throwing an obviously added on shirt will suddenly make this safe to have openly displayed with your parents, girlfriend, or girlfriend's parents over.

>> No.37761848

That, and the Scribe is anatomically correct underneath his skirt/blanket thing.

>> No.37762574

Personally, I will wait as long as it takes. I didn't put any money into this, but damn if we are seriously lacking some Monster Hunter style of Tabletop Games.

Last Stand is the closest you can come, and it's proving a little troublesome to find.

>> No.37762590

wow, the before actually looks really good. Like a game I would actually play.
The huge tits and no clothes on every model I've seen just looks retarded.
I get it, stereotypical tabletop gamers are basement dwelling nerds that just want to see big boobies.

>> No.37762663

>baby slippers

For what purpose?

>> No.37762696

yeah I don't think you got the target audience for this.
it's basically tabletop queen's blade.

>> No.37762946

Thats because people go out of their way to try and spread the pinup art as part of the actual game.

Which they aren't. Pic related.

Not even close. Queens Blade didn't stick their fanservice in just their advertisements. Its the tabletop version of Evony.

>> No.37763076

convenient that you're just leaving out all the minis of the pinup art.

>> No.37763228


The pinups aren't part of the game. They never were. They are cheesecake to move more units and generate hype. They are not included in the game, and they can't be used with it.

>> No.37763344

>and they can't be used with it.
where does it say this?

>> No.37763509



>> No.37763510



Its also been said in the kickstarter and on board game geek multiple times.

Unless you are just being a smartass and arguing semantics to go "Well I can PROXY them in the game as my character, so they CAN be used!" in which case you are an idiot.

>> No.37763560

why are you so angry?

>> No.37763627

It most definitely speaks well of his business sense.

>> No.37763662

Did you not look at the image at all before commenting?

His post kinda goes with the image. That is kind of a thing.

>> No.37763705

oh sorry, I guess I missed the le funnay caps lock meme

>> No.37764276

No but seriously what the fuck is the context here?

>> No.37764315

The pinups of Kingdom Death are pretty much just as usable in the game, and just as canon to the setting, as Warhammer models are in Warhammer 40k.

Which is to say, yes, they are similar in design, yes they are the same company, and yes the product lines have very similar names. And that's it.

>> No.37764364

There isn't any. It's fan art.

queue people shouting that because its made by the guy who does all the art, its automatically canon, even if that guy doesn't have any sway on the design decisions or setting information.

>> No.37764396

I have bad news for you anon. It's about your condition.

>> No.37764398

>Not knowing that Warhammer 40k is actually a prequel to Warhammer Fantasy, and both are canonical to the other

>> No.37764409

>There isn't any.

This is maddening and I don't even know why.

>> No.37764434

Comfort, obviously. It's like gel sandals. But with babies.

>> No.37764486

>still subscribing to fluff thats over a decade old, and has been retconned and re-retconned a dozen times now.
They got rid of that Eye of Terror bullshit ages ago. Something about marketing to third parties.

>> No.37765300

I mean some of these are a little bit of a stretch, but it's pretty silly really.

>> No.37766087

>scribe sticks survivor in box of faces for a laugh
there's your context

>> No.37766223

Different business anon who doesn't have ventures within China, but works with them (so my situation is actually more like Poot's than the other anon).

No physical-products industry can should be able to realistically weather a guaranteed 1/12 of a year without inbound supply. Now if you know it's coming, that's one thing... but then you should have adjusted before/after somehow to make up for the loss in productivity. If the factory is well-run, then they would have done that and reaped in higher profit margins from desperate clients. The fact that they're shutting down for a month and don't seem to be in any hurry indicates in my book that they are either seeing how far they can push him, or they already straight-up don't respect him enough to inconvenience themselves to keep his business (in which case the question shifts from 'Am I fucked?' to 'how fucked am I?'). Is a Chinese NY shutdown common? Sure. But is it absolute? No. Money talks. Money ALWAYS talks.

Also, if the rumors in the thread of him paying for factory expansion/improvements are true, that's a horrible idea as there's no financially-viable legal way to hold them to their promises. International law is a nightmare already, but China is worse than most. He'd better hope (again if true) that they aren't the slash-and-burn type.

>> No.37770131

Maybe he just wants to talk about KD but is to timid to be upfront about it?

>> No.37770166

Oh hey, it looks like Giant Dad.

>> No.37770216

>Behold, a Satan!

>> No.37770221

Fuck china man, we should buy American.

>> No.37770257

Too expensive. Why should I buy American junk when I can get Chinese junk for a better price?

>> No.37770271

if an american fucks you over you can punch him in the dick
if china fucks you over you're shit out of luck because china does not give a shit

>> No.37770295

Well, I don't give a fuck about America. Americans also hate admitting fault because of their retarded education system.

European made forever, baby. Unless it's Greece, because there will be rebar sticking out of your minis.

>> No.37770308

Yeah, China isn't the obvious way to produce shit some people seem to think it is.
Not having your factory an ocean away is a cost in more way than just shipping, even if they weren't legal and business practices issues.
That's especially true for small and inexperienced companies.
Maybe he should have try something closer, like Mexico.

>> No.37770329

>Cartel steals your factory

>> No.37770336

Ooh boy. French made is by-word for "it will break down 30seconds after you turn it on". Italian made is byword for "you're never getting it, they're on strike"...spain and portugal only produce oranges and tomatoes so it doesn't count, which leaves Germany, which, while grand, will overcharge you because they had to make sure their product is compliant with Rare Butterfly Protection Act that forced them to employ a rare butterfly safety person for each factory.

I'd rather pay shipping and get US made stuff than buy shitty or overpriced junk from my fellow europeans.

>> No.37770364

But Anon, all the Mexicans that were actually willing to hold jobs are already in the US.

>> No.37770386


When ever these kick-starters get delay it's 'the factory in china's fault' nine times out of ten. At least keeping the production in (north) american fosters some accountability.

>> No.37770397

Well, Swedish made products are not bad either. But they probably end up expensive.

>> No.37770431

Basically this. Then there's western slavs, that are basically Chinese-lite. They can work for cheap but quality varies and there's chance they'll just hold your mold-forms hostage.

>> No.37770467

Sounds more to me like you should never trust anyone.

>> No.37770473

Yeap, you can't really afford to produce in China when you're so small.
Ideally, you should be able to sent someone there to make sure things work.
Producing cheap cost quite a lot actually !

>> No.37770526

Well, it's probably easier to find production in China.

>> No.37770529

>not producing your minis and hiring no one but your own flash and blood to build them.

>> No.37770549

There's differece between realistic risk assessment and full-blown paranoia. Navigating this kinda market right can let you save lot of expenses and get things done real quick real cheap. But navigating it right isn't easy. If it were, everyone would be doing it.

>> No.37770627

Not related to casting, but I used to work for a company who had a lot of things produced/branded in china and asia then have them imported to the west for sale. I didn't get much interaction with that side of things but I do know they had a lawyer who they paid to make sure people weren't producing knock-offs with the brand name, and that the supplier wasn't selling their stuff directly.

>> No.37770712

From the corporation and division I work for, we're gotten used to treating most chinese outsource manufacturing companies as scams. Near impossible to get them to RELIABLY use the requested components and materials.

>> No.37770713

So why are people buttmad at China? Chinaman needs to eat too.

>> No.37770738

Last time we tried they used the wrong kind of plastic and crap quality capacitors. Whole batch was just a fire hazard and legal liability that had to be destroyed because they couldn't be sold as is or fixed economically.

>> No.37770741

Cheap foreign labor is kind of shit, that's all.

>> No.37770798

Yet people keep buying it.

>> No.37770863

And here we go with commonplace!
It's like being in /pol/..

>> No.37771006

/tg/ talk out of their ass all the time and make huge marginalizarions about everything.

>> No.37771037

people are dumb, what else is new

>> No.37771068

Is that a penis cape?

>> No.37771089

Yes. And it's actual miniture, not just a drawing.

>> No.37771153

Game lacks more healthy looking figurines

>> No.37771165

Most of them are healthy as it gets.
Unless you mean American standards of "healthy", but then there's at least Sunstalker.

>> No.37771183

Ganto tier healthiness is good

>> No.37771188

To be honest, I think with shirt would make it pretty safe, it has certain artistic value and could pass as Horror merchandising, a bit creepy but normalfags wouldn't bother too much.

I think those figures of school anime characters are pretty more embarrassing, belive me, I know.

I have a predator 90 cm figure and some Mcfarlane toys. When my aunt or my cousins came to my house and see it for first time it didn't bother them at all, but when they turned their heads and saw the anime self...they looked at me with those eyes between and horror dissapointment.

In before "your cousins are faggots"...I know.

>> No.37771210

I see lot's of the figures to be healthy anon, what's the problem?

>> No.37771312

I think you're reaching, anon

>> No.37771556

There's only so many ways you can make ridiculously skimpy outfits different, there's not a lot of material to work with, and it can't just be things like changes in colour or little patterns it has to be big sweeping changes that make them easily distinguishable/give character because the artstyle and scale simplifies things a lot both in the anime and game art.

So you end up going with some bold things that are all very different from one another and end up with the same sort of costumes as other works use. It's like coming up with your own classes and ending up with not-barbarian, not-fighter, not-mage, and not-rogue.

Combine all that with the fact that both works contain a large number of skimpy females and you're bound to have crossover/comparable stuff.

>> No.37771876

Yeah, creator is laughing all the way to Chapter 13 Bankruptcy. He'd love to deliver, but the project was never meant to scale up the way it did.

FD: I know him.

FFD: I did not back this project.

>> No.37772692

>See impractical sword
>Think "That shit's going to shatter"
>Sword has shattered

>> No.37772714

This is the same game where they make armour out of penis monsters.

Realism doesn't factor in.

>> No.37772788

Have you felt a penis recently. That stuff's rock solid when engorged. All they need is an inflation system and they're good to go.

>> No.37772998

>> No.37773064


>> No.37773718

Which is the estimated price of the "final content"?

I mean, hipothetically lets say its actually produced, he sells the copies to the backers.

Then, he sells the rest online, at wich price would he have to sell each set? 500$?

I can't see it costing less and that's really nuts for a game.

>> No.37773947


>> No.37774096

All it takes is a cold shower to undo the armours protection.

>> No.37774343

it could be that he was fucked and cant produce the game, and thats why he is putting off talking to the community, him closing the pledge manager would fit in well with that OR things are coming to a close and he is busy managing everything and trying to make sure it can ship we wont know until word slips out either from Poots or from other sources

will speculation is fun, it really doesnt get us anywhere until then

>> No.37774577

Yeah, nah, reposting image.

>> No.37774594


He mentioned he will probably be making an alternate set to use as a base game, but he wont be getting rid of the old one, because games that do a 'Kickstarter Edition' are fucking stupid.

>> No.37774602

>Still not willing to admit you were scammed?
You should have got into the Heroquest 25th Anniversary one.

>> No.37774609

You won't hear anything for a month+ if his "got fucked by Chinese New year" bit was true.

As for doing business there, it's still viable, as at least two anons besides myself in this thread can attest. You do have to be very careful, which it seems he was not. Don't exchange money for promises.

>> No.37774640

Nobody in the US will manufacture anything on that small of a quantity unless it's a guy doing it in his backyard.

>> No.37774679

That sounds very cheap to be true

>> No.37774681

This is not the first time he's missed an update and I'm sure it won't be the last. I seem to recall one being late by like three weeks or so.

>> No.37774721

>that small of a quantity
He's got tens of thousands of orders for hundreds of miniatures.

If a factory won't take an order of a million units, that's a shitty factory.

>> No.37774744

Factories also have other orders to deal with. You gotta get in line.

>> No.37774995

So is anybody actually interested in the game itself, or is it just 100% sculpture hype.

Is there any chance at all that a version without minatures gets realeased so you could play without dropping 100+ bucks?

>> No.37775029

I have very little interest in the setting or game. Some of the monster models are very nice, though, but they are a tad bit morbid for when playing RPG with my friends.

>> No.37775032

Most US factories won't, really. Maybe if it was for a million of one specific thing you could find one or two, but for small diverse stuff like miniatures you really have to get stuff done in China. There's a reason Reaper had to buy all their own equipment so they could make Bones in the US.

>> No.37775144

A dozen or so people in the kickstarter comments regularly talk about making homemade tokens to replace the minis, to make the game more portable, and demo it at their FLGS, and similar discussions have popped up here from time to time.

>> No.37775207

>guy scams weeaboo fucktards and never delivers their shitty miniatures and goes to mexico with their money

This man is a hero.

>> No.37775277

GW, please go.

>> No.37775473

I specifically didn't order a single pin-up, I just want my horrific dick monsters.
And cool knights.

>> No.37776126

This is NOTHING compared to Jamie Chambers and his Metamorphosis Alpha Kickstarter.

We're 2.75 years after funding, and all we've seen are some half-assed pdfs.

I think he blew through the money going to cons and shit, and then lost interest.

>> No.37776418

These are my thoughts exactly.

>> No.37776495

>dick skirt

>> No.37776531

Turned upside down it makes mighty fine bouquet of cocks.

>> No.37776542

Does Privateer do a good tasteful lewd?

>Dat rubber ducky shredder

>> No.37776599

>dragon blighted rubber duck

This amuses me greatly.

>> No.37776600

Poor guy is probably really sad because not just his dream crumbled but also know everyone think he is a con artist. Probably is facing depression thinking people could sue it. He needed a change of air, you must understand, its for his health.

>> No.37776660

the latter

>> No.37776662

>Someone proposes a bussiness
>People belive in his project
>Scams inverstors money
>People think he is a hero and praise for what he did

And that's why the world sucks and why Wall street Wolf was a success

>> No.37776693

I work in shipping and it doesn't take long to do that. It's 2 five minutes calls

>> No.37776699

>proposes a business

They weren't "investing in a business." They were pre-ordering weeb merch that didn't exist yet. "Investing" implies they have some kind of say in the business or at least defined metrics about what happens if they don't meet deadlines. Kickstarter isn't investment. It's a scam that people fall for over and over again.

>> No.37776740

>Kickstarter isn't investment. It's a scam that people fall for over and over again.

You're saying that like no project ever delivers. Quit being over dramatic

>> No.37776773

You can call it what you want, and certainly, people should be more careful with its money, but still, the fault is of those who lie. Of course, people who invest/preorders/whatever is at fault too, but that is no reason to praise the one who scammed them.

>> No.37776788

When did I imply it never works? Even pyramid schemes make a few people money. Sit there and tell me a project with an original asking price of $40,000 who then gets $200,000 and still fails with nothing to show for it isn't a scam.

>> No.37776809

Maybe if enough people get scammed we can stop this idiotic trend of paying for products that don't exist yet.

>> No.37776831

>Sit there and tell me a project with an original asking price of $40,000 who then gets $200,000 and still fails with nothing to show for it isn't a scam.

Cool story bro, bad things happen. That doesn't mean Kickstarter is a bad idea

>> No.37776852

>I have no idea how manufacturing works and also have no sense of scalability

>> No.37776872

Stop funding shit that doesnt exist?

Want to make a game/product/whatever? Get a loan from a bank. Kickstarter exists to separate fools and their money. If you just give some dude cash because you like his pitch and he promised you something - well youre an idiot.

Stop making kickstarter a thing. 99/100 of them are bullshit, and everytime one of you desparate and lonely faggots coughs up money for one of these, youre just ensuring it continues to grow. Would you give Activision or GW cash to help them develop a product? Fuck no you wouldnt.

If these assholes were legit theyd get a loan from a bank like a normal person. But hey, why pay interest and be forced to deliver on your business plan when you can just collect cash from retards and maybe deliver? Or not deliver, because fuck it - theres no consequences.

If you funded a kickstarter and got fucked, its your fault, not the developers.

>> No.37776880

Shifting the financial burden and risk onto the consumers (major caveat here:) while not giving them any kind of stake in your company is a scam. Just because a handful of them have been successful doesn't make it a good idea in the long run.

Look at the Oculus Rift. they got it up off the ground with rubes such as yourself and then sold out to make a ton of money and they owe the original backers nothing.

>> No.37776899

My point was if they couldn't scale up why would they take all the extra money? You don't see them stopping the money with what they can actually manage. Why? Because there's nothing holding them accountable with that.

>> No.37776917

>Look at the Oculus Rift. they got it up off the ground with rubes such as yourself and then sold out to make a ton of money and they owe the original backers nothing.

Did Oculus deliver the rewards laid out in their kickstarter? Are you really trying to imply that Oculus ripped it's backers off because it became successful? How are people rubes if they got exactly what they paid for?

You sound like the kind of person that bitches to management for buying something a week before it went on sale

>> No.37776941

>Would you give Activision or GW cash to help them develop a product?
I'd sponsor reprint of Hero Quest or Mordheim up front.

>> No.37776958

>that bitches to management for buying something a week before it went on sale

Just fucking stop. No 4chan metaphors please. Your retardation is already too much.

>> No.37776995

You would lay down money that goes straight into GW's pockets with them having nothing forcing them to actually give you the product?

>> No.37777006 [SPOILER] 

Nice non response, anon

>> No.37777057

You're obviously a moron who doesn't even do his own shopping if you don't realize that many companies have policies that refund you for the sale price if something like that happens. It's evident to me you have a child's view of home finances much less what goes into funding a business.

>> No.37777098

Find me five large companies that will give you money back if your purchase went on sale if that's really your argument.

>> No.37777122

Jesus christ youre retarded. GW has the money to make hero quest if they want to. The fact that youre dumb enough to foot the bill for development.. I dont know what to say man.

>> No.37777196

Are you actually a child? Do you not realize that if you bought something within a week of it going on sale you could just return it and then rebuy it if they didn't want to refund you? Most stores have a general 30 day return period. Them refunding the difference just saves them man power and having to deal with opened items.

That doesn't require a special policy. That's basic common sense.

>> No.37777223


Please, just stop talking. You're only making yourself look bad.

>> No.37777298

I've backed about 6 kickstarters now. 3 of them have delivered exactly as stated with only 2 months delay for 1 of them. The rest are on track as far as updates are concerned and I have every confidence they'll deliver too. People need to engage their brains when using kickstarter, that is all. However given the vast population majority are bumbling retards I can see why this is an issue.

>> No.37777342

So you mean engage your mind powers to tell the future to see if they'll run away with your money or not?

>> No.37777361

Not that guy, but most failstarters I've seen have had some massive red flags.

>> No.37777388

Such as?

>> No.37777530

Being obsessed with the sun talking to you, for one.

>> No.37777583

So you didn't even read the thread?

That one is shipping. Like, its actually still being worked on. The sun worked out its differences with the military, so its no longer jealous of her game.

... Also how the fuck is that a red flag to not back it, if it didn't happen until AFTER the campaign ended?

>> No.37777642

Board Games
>Have they sent out reasonable prototypes to reviewers.
>How long have they been playtesting?
>Have they researched and contacted manufacturers that have a proven kickstarter record and that other successful kickstarters have used.
>Do they have a BGG entry with an uploaded prototype manual, basic artwork and other files.
>How extensive is the manual/artwork.
>Have they enlisted the partnership/help of other board game companies/successful kickstarters.
>Do they have reasonable progression of stretch goals, have they listed 100 extra miniatures they won't have a hope of fulfilling.

Miniatures/Board Games as a slapped on excuse to sell miniatures.
>Just no.

>> No.37777676

So, by your standard, Super Dungeon Explore is a failstarter.

Got it.

>> No.37777706

Thats cause sodapop is a shit company.

>> No.37777712


>> No.37777724

Are there ANY mini's games that aren't just an excuse to sell miniatures?

>> No.37777768

Probably not. Maybe those godawful zombie games.

>> No.37778355

Zombicide isnt god awful, I like it.

>> No.37778612

So basically, you hate minis games, and think kickstarter should only be used by commercial pre-established companies who have already completed their game, instead of its intended purpose of providing funding to non-established independent developers?

>> No.37778619

Kickstarter is good for overly niche projects that can't reasonably get investors. I don't know what projects you guys have been pre-ordering, but I've had great experience backing tabletop RPGs in particular. It's kind of nice having a physical copy of Engine Heart, even if I had to wait for it.

>> No.37778662

They can be pre-established or indie developers. The point was, have they actually put enough work into their project before shoving it up on kickstarter.

>> No.37778733

Huh. Interesting. Something like posting gameplay videos, multiple examples of already designed cards, and being an established miniatures company for 2-3 years?

You know, like Kingdom Death.

>> No.37778780

Traditional financing is pretty much the reason that GW kills fan favorites like Mordheim in favor of MOAR SPESS MUHREENS. Why take a flyer on something that *might* turn a profit when they can pour more and more capital into a known money maker?

They don't make products because there's a big fanbase of dedicated players calling for them... they make them to keep the tweens lined up to buy 900 bucks worth of space marines.

Basically this:

This is also the reason that we have ten spiderman movies, a subpar prequel to The Thing, and a rebooted reboot of Batman coming up instead of 20 original science fiction films.

>> No.37778851

RPGs on kickstarter are just a license to print money though.
>Get funded - Push out one pdf (maybe a book) about which magical realm bullshit you sold to the rubes this time.
>Don't get funded - Oh well, you've lost precisely nothing and can just try to flog it again next week.

>> No.37778859

It's really hard to fuck up an RPG- not only is the bar for contents set low, but it's a book, there's fifty million publishing houses out there. For board and miniature games, you have to sculpt and cast the product, which is where they usually fail or stumble, because it either requires expertise if you do it yourself, or knowledge of the industry to not get fucked in the ass by the cheap chinese factories. You know, two things that bright-eyed dreamers with big ideas lack usually.

>> No.37778929

I don't see the problem with not losing money and the comment about magical realms is just hyperbole.

Yeah, that's why I normally avoid miniature unless they're pre-established. Reaper Miniatures was a great experience.

>> No.37779026

My comment was less to do with losing money and more about as a flogger of magical realms it's a godsend. Yes, you as the backer of RPGs would have to back the dumbest mofo around and be similarly retarded yourself not to see it in order to mess up there. So there's not much point proclaiming that backing RPGs is great when given the circumstances it would be very surprising to be otherwise.

>> No.37779229

My point is that the system does work for certain things. It does admittedly work less well for others. KD is a lesson learned, mind, as I did expect them to do better, having already been an established miniatures company. They just weren't ready for such a massive upscale in production. We will get the product eventually, but I may have to leave the eventual release to my great nephew.

>> No.37779240

I am confident he will deliver the product in the end. The question is just when it will eventually ship. He has shown many plastic kits in updates with just a few more left to do, and the resin sales from the kingdom death page keeps the company afloat in the meantime.

However, he lacks all integrity at this point. The Sacred Backer Time every other wednesday fell through after only three updates, and as you stated, haven't lived up to his word to deliver an update three times in a row now. Poots is rapidly depleting the goodwill from many of his backers, and the irritation among backers (judging by the comments section) is mounting. The pledge manager has been closed, no one knows if it is temporary or permanent, and the lack of communication only makes the irritation worse since he promised to notify the backers well in advance when it would close.

>> No.37779276

I just want to fill her up with semen

>> No.37779312

Because she is Satan. No really, Satan was so vain that s/he split himself into twin babes and wears a penis skirt and tounge stockings because... reasons.

>> No.37779371

There's not a single thing about that that doesn't turn me on.
A former noblewoman, her house fall from grace, and everyone in the household are either killed or turned into the lowliest of servants.

>> No.37779449

Honestly, its absolutely annoying with the kickstarter, but I dont think I'll have any I'll will after it ends. I'll be happy to buy future expansions, post release. I just wont be pre-ordering them.

That said, if he plans on running another kickstarter, I'm not going to be backing it unless he handles it like Forgotten King did, with a dedicated PR person who has scheduled updates once a week, as well as having a LIMITED number of stretch goals, up to a certain point, with no modifications to the base game (base pledge, sure, but nothing that will raise the price of the game post-release)

>> No.37779485

Ey, Foron, you nigger! Found some use from the folders I shared a thousand years ago I see fug :DDDD

>> No.37779512

>spain and portugal only produce oranges and tomatoes so it doesn't count
Spain is one of the main producers of miniatures. Having some of the most important and influential painters and modellers of the miniatures and modelism scene.

>> No.37779519

Standard box game will retail at $250, unless something changes. I think that number is reliable.

>> No.37779746

>Standard box game will retail at $250
good luck with that

>> No.37780071

>good luck with that
see (>>37774594)

>> No.37780186

> your own flash
Anon confirmed for awakened resin miniature

>> No.37780432

Considering RK went dark for like a year, while being just as overdue I think you just don't know how kickstarters work.

>> No.37781248

>Ideally, you should be able to sent someone there to make sure things work.
I think SPM learning this lesson is why SDM was only a little delayed.

>> No.37781284

Now that Moot is kill, we should get Poots to replace him.

>> No.37782072

To me that makes sense, there should some kind of limit in founding because in first place money is tempting and in second places, it can easly get out of your hand.

I mean, if you have in mind a bussiness of around 50000 $ then suddenly you have in your pockets 2 millons...first is tempting is almost as if you won the lottery, and then if you are not tempted by it you probably won't even know where to start the project now because things scalated too much.

If the product fails...it fails, thats part of the risk, but leting overfunding projects is an added risk that could be prevented putting a limit scale for example, not more than 200% on a 50000 $ project

>> No.37782238

You stick with your original timeframe, which should have had manufacturing costs, shipping and packaging, etc worked out or almost worked out already.

Make it clear that additional volume past the initial run will be delayed and set a budget and schedule for that.

Backer rewards are even lower priority - don't offer huge ones to begin with, and they come past the original run as well. budget and schedule those.

In all of this budgeting, build in a buffer. Do things at the same costs you initially planned because you did NOT hit the jackpot if you plan on keeping a reputation. Don't suddenly look at larger new partners, materials, etc. Those can be considered later.

>> No.37782673

Pre-orders are a major thing in the video game industry. DLC passes are also a thing.

Video game companies already do this shit, so using Activision as an example just makes you look like an idiot.

>> No.37782822

To be fair, early on, Poots DID have a budget plan. He had 3 or 4 upgrades he wanted to make for the game, and the 3 Knights, as well as Dragon and Gorm planned, but didn't expect those to be part of the kickstarter unless funding went REALLY well.

But once he shot past all of them, people were demanding more stuff, and he gave in.

I don't have a problem with season passes, if they are the kind like Nintendo is doing, where they list specifically which DLC's are covered by the pass, instead of the Activision style "Eh, just whatever we release I guess." or EA's "You get the DLC for free! Unless its good DLC. That still costs money."

That said, I think that anon was talking about how a lot of people decided that we should no longer ever pre-order games, for any reason. A common thought that has been popping up on /v/ recently. It seems its mirrored by quite a few people in this thread, who believe that includes Kickstarter as well.

>> No.37782897

Nintendo has DLC season passes?

>> No.37782971

That's his problem then. He gave in.

He could've promised stuff at a later date after completion of the existing project, or just plain said no.

All those people who would've bitched and moaned about "want moar stuff" would probably have their main sets at least now.

Eyes bigger than his stomach.

Not going to pretend I'm a better businessman than him, but that's a big mistake. he could even have gone back on his word (bonus stuff is off the table for now guys) and lost less face than he is right now with his shovel and lot.

>> No.37782985

I didn't get the whole pre-order hatred thing until I started watching the Jimquisition episodes where he talks about it.

Now I am glad that in Aus there is only one chain of game stores and their 7-day return policy extends to pre-orders.

>> No.37783010

Yeah. They have two so far. One for Mario Kart, which was basically just a preorder for the two DLC's they had for it.

The other is for Hyrule Warriors. They gave the names of all the DLC packs, as well as rough release dates, and when the season pass went up, mentioned the contents of the first pack. They give full info about each pack about half a month before its release.


>> No.37783071

To be fair, he had one kickstarter that barely succeeded, and a second one that outright failed. KDM is actually his third kickstarter. He was prepared to be forgotten entirely and give up on making his dream game, only to be meet with people who showed genuine interest and wanted to know as much about it as possible.

I would not have the willpower to say no to that. I doubt many designers would. That kind of reaction is one that you don't even imagine in your wildest dreams.

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