[ 3 / biz / cgl / ck / diy / fa / g / ic / jp / lit / sci / tg / vr / vt ] [ index / top / reports / report a bug ] [ 4plebs / archived.moe / rbt ]

Due to resource constraints, /g/ and /tg/ will no longer be archived or available. Other archivers continue to archive these boards.Become a Patron!

/tg/ - Traditional Games

View post   

[ Toggle deleted replies ]
[ERROR] No.37735922 [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

Lets do this!

>Core Books:

>Pre-Made Adventures:
>pw: tiamatlives

>Spells listed by class, along with crib sheets and rules summaries:

>The Warforged and the Artificer Homebrew can be found here:

>Character Idea Generator, for when you have a spare moment

What do you have for active characters and what do you have waiting to play?

>> No.37735980

My current is a pixie sorcerer, dragon blooded. So far third level and loving it.

My character in wait is a kitsune monk, starting at first for an online game. Goiing to go way of the shadow. Assassin concept.

>> No.37736434

In my game I made "Warforged" be Gargoyles.

>> No.37736652

That sounds pretty cool. I don't know much about warforged though.

>> No.37736690

Currently DMing and prepping for a TPK. Being outnumbered by cultists with no way out is a horrible thing, but they might pull off some bullshit to wow me. If I was playing I'd be going Valor Bard or Zerk Barb.

Been working on converting beasties from previous editions, anyone care to critique?

>> No.37736887

Advice on the stats a Valkyrie should have?

Also, is there a Sorclock build I can snag for an NPC? I don't think the party is going to fight him, but I need to be prepared.

>> No.37736895

Post them and if i notice anything i'll point it out.

>> No.37737064

Only have the one currently due to being scatterbrained. This is taken from the Monsters of Faerun book for 3.0.

Large beast, chaotic evil

AC: 14
HP: 52
Speed: 50 ft

STR: 18 (+4) DEX: 14 (+2) CON: 16 (+3) INT: 8 (-1) WIS: 12 (+1) CHA: 5 (-3)
Skills: Perception +3, Athletics +6

Keen Hearing and Smell: Advantage on Perception involving those senses.
Mimicry: Can imitate voices and sounds they have heard.
Rampage: If it drops an opponent in melee, it may move up to half it’s speed and make a melee attack as a bonus action.
Immune to charm and compulsion
Savage Attacks: Roll an extra dice on a crit
Languages: Can understand Common and Giant but only speaks through Mimicry.

Bite: +6 to hit (2d6+4 piercing)

Goal was to make a CR 2.

>> No.37737234

Drop savage attack, crits already add an extra die.
Rampage: if it drops an opponent in melee it may make a melee action as a bonus action. The extra move is too much.
More hp. Alternatively, drop damage die to1d6+4 and have it be cr 1/2 pack animal.

>> No.37737281

I'm playing a Human Fighter,and a Human Barbarian with plans to turn the Barbarian into a Moon Circle Druid..

>> No.37737300

>Currently DMing and prepping for a TPK. Being outnumbered by cultists with no way out is a horrible thing
You know you're the DM, right? There could just be fewer cultists. Or weaker cultists. Or a secret way out that they stumble upon at the last second.

>> No.37737345

You realize that you're the guy that makes the calls right? If you don't want to play then don't.

>> No.37737357

I fucked up the Rampage, it's supposed to be as Gnolls so it should read
>Move up to half speed and make a melee attack as a bonus action.

The Savage Attacks was supposed to reflect that their bites are noted as being particularly brutal (x3 mulitplier). They're supposed to be something that's on par with trolls, running in packs of 2 to 4 and killing just about anything that moves in valleys, mountains and forests. They favor chasing prey to a cliff and shoving them off of it, hence the Athletics. Base for this was the Dire Wolf in the MM.

They are a seven man group. They had plenty of warning that boldly charging in was dangerous. They tried to sneak in and did a good job of it, but they were made fairly quickly. They have a wizard with Rope Trick so they just have to break visual contact, otherwise the cultists will just get the priest to come dispel their hidey hole.

>> No.37737384

How about a Warmaster adaptation? I know multiple attacks are awesome, but more dice isn't always better. Giving a character with a marrtial build variety is neccesarry. Yes, I know about the Arcane Knight and Battlemaster pathways. It's not enough, and it's not in the right flavor. 'I hit it with my sword' isn't gonna cut it anymore. "I hit it with my spell' doesn't solve the problem any more, either.

>> No.37737397

That's great and all but you're not running a simulation, you're running a game. If you don't want to kill them, then don't. If you want to kill them, then do.

>> No.37737400

I want to run and they want to play. My group is OK with being put in a bad position, I've already had a death and they rolled with it. They enjoy the challenge of daunting odds. I've had to actually beef up encounters so they feel pressed enough, and dial back my usual habit of hand outs.

>> No.37737422

You're planning a TPK? What kind of sadist are you? Did they bring this on themselves or are you just a dick?

>> No.37737470

Hey man, sometimes PC actions have to have harsh consequences. It's a valid style of play. So is fudging to let them scrape by when their deaths would not be dramatic enough, but not everyone wants to play things that way.

>> No.37737483

Alright, just remember rule -1. The only reason you're playing is for fun.

>> No.37737533


To be clear, I have a large group of experience players with just about any position covered. I made an abandoned keep as the base of a cult they had run afoul of. They had broken their backs and were chasing the cult to this keep. The goal was to rescue prisoners and capture leadership, with alternate avenues of entry available. Their plan to scout everything out failed, and they've run into a dead end with the Rope Trick as they're means to evade capture for the moment. They know they're in a bad spot and are comfortable with the consequences of it and even if they get captured, I have a way set up for them to escape, at a price.

We're all having a blast, no worries. They're all veterans of Dark Heresy and L5R so they're used to not being superheroes.

>> No.37738143

>playing Elder-Scrolls themed D&D, very homebrew and very fun
>our party is conscripted into a conspiracy to weaken thalmor assets around Tamriel
>my character is an argonian sailor-rogue named Strides-With-Salt
>joined by snobby altmer noble-turned-traitor , bard with little regard for friendly fire, and fellow sailor-ranger
>our journey takes us into Black Marsh, with our primary objective being to find and kill an Argonian cultist who preaches intense anti-talos messages

>we stumble around, meet our contacts, and engage in some shenanigans that ultimately cause us to be kidnapped and enlisted by Hircine to get a cursed werewolf of his to deliver the killing blow to the targeted prophet
>we embark on the journey to meet him

>i roll perception to identify a small frogman rattling his way down the forest path, Strides-With-Salt hides with a few others while the Altmer noble distracts him
>it becomes clear that the necklace the frogman is wearing identifies him as some kind of high-ranking figure even though it's just a couple of shiny rocks
>roll successful sleight of hand to steal it right off his neck and slink back into the trees
>our bard enrages the 'king' with music and causes him to run, summoning TWELVE frogmen with spears to ambush us from the trees
>in the ensuing fight, all of them die
>except one
>THE one

>step out and show the rock necklace, telling him to give pause
>he immediately surrenders
>roll persuasion to get him to understand me and follow me, succeed
>over the course of the next two hours, Strides-With-Salt crafts a tiny shield for him, feeds him, trains him, teaches him courage
>we named him Lenny, after the guy from Neature Walk
>lenny communicates in shrill grunts and screaming, but understands Salt perfectly
>we finally meet the werewolf of hircine


>> No.37738291

>negotiations go well, Salt aquires a feather that boosts his acrobatics stat to Oblivion-levels of crazy
>we convince the big dog to join us when suddenly he realizes that there's a dirty elf mage among us
>go apeshit when we tell him he only does card tricks
>tense fight ensues, Lenny automatically enters a 'fear' mode where he curls up into a ball and is unable to flee or fight, but is harmless enough to be ignored by the werewolf
>except for the fact that he's shitting, like, everywhere
>DM is 100% certain about this

>in the enusing fight, with my jumping around like a crazy asshole, i roll a natural 20 to throw my oil flask at the werewolf
>completely soak him in oil
>fellow sailor and ranger, Mandor Crow, lights up an arrow and takes a fateful shot to set him on fire
>rolls a 1
>the arrow hits Lenny in the thigh
>Lenny lights on fire, shitting intensifies
>it is now Salt's turn
>to my right is Lenny, to my left is the river, and ahead of me is the werewolf about to kill the everloving fuck out of our Altmer nobleman
>if i help lenny, the Almter is fucked
>if I throw my lantern at the werewolf, lenny will die from fire damage in the next turn
>i took the third option

>grab lenny and hurl him at the werewolf
>negotiate a plan, a miracle, a hope and a prayer
>if I roll a nat. 20, lenny will set the werewolf on fire and then bounce off into the lake
>everyone is paying rapt attention as i roll the giant metal dice
>we wait
> i rolled a ten.


>> No.37738419

>lenny sails through the air
>stretches his hand out towards salt
>his eyes widen, wide and quivering just before they liquify into ashes and tears, a long line of shit trailing through the air behind him, dungeon master narrarates
>strikes the werewolf and nearly instantly explodes into ashes and burnt viescera
>werewolf immediately starts taking +10 fire damage per turn
>we beat the fuck out of him extremely soon after, beat him into submission and force him to work with us
>Salt runs to lenny, but it's too late
>he's gone
>lenny's with the rest of his tribe, he didn't make it, maybe he knew all along or maybe he just wanted to eat and shit and never worry about anything else for the rest of his life
>i was going to make him my first mate on the ship Salt inherited.

>mandor crow bottles his ashes into an expensive wine bottle and gives them to Salt
>Salt straps Lenny's small spear and shield to his belt
>i offer the only eulogy i can
>"of all of us....lenny was the most -...human."

>> No.37738559

Can wizards pick up new cantrips in play by copying them into a spellbook or do they work differently from all the other spells?

>> No.37739350

As a DM, I've been thinking about adding some BGM during session, but couldn't really find one that I really liked so far. LotR's OST was a bit too fantastical, if that even makes sense, and Morrowind/Skyrim's had some nice songs, but not a lot.

After listening to some tunes from Game of Thrones, I might stick to that since it gives off the feel I want, but I'd like to hear from you guys regarding music you play during sessions

>> No.37739467

If you like Skyrim and Morrowind, try the Guild Wars and GW2 soundtracks. They're also by Jeremy Soule.

>> No.37739522

Have you looked at tabletopaudio?

>> No.37739920

How do I get my players to interact with NPCs or notice the world more and ask questions.

Their last interaction with an npc in an a new area was the npc saying what is left and what is right of them. This was entering a new underground city fortress that is currently half overrun with drow and spiders built ontop of a ruinous older city.

No questions on anything were asked. Party literally took about 20 seconds between them, decided right and them left the area. This was the only social interaction in the session. The group has drifted away from any RP at all over the last couple of months.

>what do?

>> No.37739944

Might sound dumb, but did someone make an easier read of the lost mine of phandelver? the way it's laid out seems really really dumb, I have to read all of it and then jump back and forth. Wasn't so bad with shadows of sokol, but this is like four times as much text.
Or at least one that I can ctrl F, rather than it being all images

>> No.37740557

I'll look into it

Oh shit, I've never heard about it before. Thanks

>> No.37741697

How does one balance lycanthrope characters?

>> No.37741834

Never played a pen and paper RPG before. I plan on picking up the beginner box and GMing a game with one other person. I plan on rolling a cleric that will accompany him as an NPC of sorts, so the party will have at least 2 characters. How viable is this?

>> No.37742027

Easy. Force the lycanthrope to do things the player doesn't want his character doing. By doing so the player is encouraged to seek a cure. If this doesn't work, force the lycanthrope to do things the other party members don't want him to do. This encourages them to seek a cure or kill the lycanthrope.

>> No.37742259

Well, it's more a player wants to play as a lycanthrope as a character concept.

And they want to be a Werebear, so it's hard to justify an alignment change in RAW

>> No.37742443

A'ight, tell me how you described the NPC?

Did you play any phat beats on the boom box?

Did you massage the eye lobes of your players by giving them pictures?

Was the NPlayahCharacter jivin', or jukin'?

>> No.37742444

If you were trying to go full meatshield as a Fighter, would a three level dip in Barbarian be worth doing for Unarmored Defense, Danger Sense, and Bear Totem? I hate to slow my Fighter progression that much, but it seems like that stuff would make me tough as shit.

>> No.37742894

Plot-wise, let's say a Sorcerer loses their magic. This makes them mostly useless, I know. What's a way they could earn or replace it, Paladin-style? Like, if a Warlock didn't honor their pact and lost their powers, where would you go from there?

And importantly, what's the cost?

>> No.37742924

child sacrifice to get back your powers for the warlock. blood transfusion from a unicorn for the sorc. both result in an evil alignment change

>> No.37742928

If you figure something out, post it
One of the players in my group wants to be a werebear as well
It's me, I'll admit it. I'm trouble figuring out exactly how it can be downside, I'm playing a barbarian that can be a bear

>> No.37743016

Anyone use any of the optional shit in the DMG that players can use? Not using NPC races or oathbreakers or stuff like that.
Talking about in battle stuff, flanking, climbing onto larger creatures, side shoving, the two things to move through enemy spaces, those things.

>> No.37743042

It's not just last sessions main npc interaction, it's them going downhill over time.

Ambience of
as they entered the main city square of the ominously quiet dwarven stronghold. Dead spiders and drow littering the square's corners.
The soot stained Firth Forgeface the finest freaking smith in Furnhold (introduced himself in my worst accent ).
Gave them a very brief rundown of how he and 2 buddies standing next to him took out a couple of spiders in the area after escaping from the forge district to the east where he thinks there may be more survivors. He was also worried about the caves to the west where he thinks the main entry point of drow is.

Party dialog almost literal
>Ok so we go east, we should save the dwarves
>But I wanna kill the drow to the west
>No we should save the dwarves
>Sigh, Okay...

Area exited... Not even asking any questions or anything, no rolls for perception or examining the area, or searching or anythnig you can name. "We go east".

>> No.37743126

Looks like you've got some Grade A murderhobos there.

One thing I can recommend that helped get my players in the RP mood was to give enemies personalities. Don't just make them generic baddies, make one a womanizer who hits on a female PC during fights, another who mocks the Barbarian brute, etc. They'd start arguing with the enemies and do stuff to shut them up.

>> No.37743148 [SPOILER] 

the party is chaotic neutral, true neutral, chaotic good and lawful evil

>> No.37743178

where dat fill size knight art??

>> No.37743234

No idea. I pulled the pic off of one of our threads around like... a year ago.

>> No.37743250

It's from Final Fantasy Tactics.

>> No.37743277

i know that

>> No.37743402

I want to play a moogle wizard (size: small, speed 20 ft walk, Int+2 Dex +1, Darkvision 60 ft., Feather Fall once per day, languages: Common, Moogle), and call Firebolt "Fire", burning hands "Fira", scorching ray "Firaga" and fireball "Flare", with haste and sleep. Any other ideas?

>> No.37743426

i've even taken steps to tell them what they miss a couple of areas after they have passed it / cann ot go back.

>you guys should've rolled any kind of perception, there was loot
>how come you didnt talk to that guy? He might've told you some stuff about stuff.
>remember when you were *location* well there might have been *maguffin* or something like that near there

>> No.37743452

You should model yourself after Best Moogle.

>> No.37743647

Ok so, suppose I want to have a warlock that takes advantage of the combination of a club pact weapon with life drinker and shillelagh. What is the best way to go about it? Magic initiate is easy to do, but so is a single level of druid. Fey pact is best for flavor, but fiend is probably more effective? Also, not sure what is good for bladelocks in general.

>> No.37743666

Currently playing "The Bouncer." He's a human fighter adapted from Pathfinder. It's great because the DM keeps forgetting that shove is a thing.
>I climb the cliff
>You are met by goblins
>Off the cliff with them!

>You enter a cave, there is a hole in the ceiling going up.
>I climb up the hole.
>You are met by bugbears
>Into the hole with them!

In another campaign I'm playing a warlock with a negative wisdom mod and no proficiency in perception. He has eldricht sight and the ability to cast darkness at will. He gets startled easily and his panic button is Darkness.

>If I can't see it, then nobody can!

>> No.37743776


You can only get Shillelagh with the Tome pact and can only get life drinker with the Blade pact.
The blade pact is useful for melee combat. I don't know if Spell Resistance is a thing in 5e, but it would help with that.
It's still outclassed by Familiar pact as far as utility since your familiar can scout and deal touch attacks for you. But even familiar is out classed by Tome.
Tome can effectively give you a familiar (because ritual spells) and melee (via shillelagh cantrip), plus the additional utility of other ritual magics and altenate damge types by picking up other cantrips like Sacred Flame.
Only downside to tome is familiars aren't AS good and your melee HAS to be bludgeoning (and may not do as much damage), but gaining the rituals and cantrip variety makes up for it IMO.

>> No.37743898

>Princes of the Apocalypse is available on April 7, 2015 and includes an epic adventure for characters levels 1–15 as well as new elemental spells and the element-touched genasi as a new playable race. In addition, a free download will be available in mid-March that includes more new races plus the player content available in Princes of the Apocalypse, just in time for the start of the Elemental Evil season of the D&D Adventurers League.

>new spells
>new races

What else is it speculated to include? I've heard Elemental origin for sorcerers.

Do you think the new spells will make other sorcs than fire/cold/lightning viable?

>> No.37743944

> You can only get Shillelagh with the Tome pact
Pretty sure a level of druid or the magic initiate feat works just as well - oh wait, just realized those would key off of wisdom. Damn. I would need tome for charisma, but melee is gonna suck a lot more if you don't get thirsting blade at level 5, which is bladelock only.

Ok so, other kinds of bladelock? And I know blade pact isn't exactly the bees knees, but I don't mind taking something suboptimal and making it work.

Still curious what spells are recommended for melee types. Hex seems fairly obvious, but that eats up my concentration.

>> No.37743977

Alternatively, a bladelock with shillelagh and a high wisdom score might work, if I used wisdom skills fairly often. Warlocks have proficiency in wisdom checks anyway. That only swaps the needed stats from strength instead of reducing MAD, but eh.

>> No.37744034

Is it possible to end your turn mid-air? Not counting levitation and flight.

Like, can you jump so high that 6 seconds isn't enough to touch the ground?

I calculate you'd have to fall from almost 600 feet in the air in to not reach the ground in 6 s. But halve that height for jumping, since you take equal time traveling upwards as you do downwards.

Can a PC jump up 200-300 feet by any means?

>> No.37744161

You can end your turn mid-air as a Barbarian with the final eagle aspect.
Until the end of your turn you have a fly speed = movement.
Assuming you don't land at the end of your movement, you will fall.

Also the obvious "I jump off cliff" will inevitably end your turn mid air if the cliff is high enough.

>> No.37744299


Have the NPCs tried to interact with the PCs?

>> No.37744300

>Assuming you don't land at the end of your movement, you will fall.

But does that happen instantaneously/during your turn? I'm imagining a situation where a monk is mid-air, is attacked by ranged weapons, and uses his reaction to grab the projectile. Wuxia shit.

>> No.37744342

Can he use all but 5 ft of his movement going up, freefall back down 20 feet, and use the rest to float safely to the ground?

>> No.37744351

Do the level requirement on invocations refer to warlock level, or total level? Because that could seriously effect later game level dip options.

>> No.37744429

if you use magic initiate or Druid to get Shillelagh, it uses wisdom rather than charisma as your casting stat. only way to combine cha-Shillelagh with life-drinker is to go lore bard 6/bladelock 12 and use magic secrets for Shillelagh. Not sure if it's worth it unless you actually like that RP combo.

>> No.37744441

I recently stumbled upon this info-graphic, which summarizes the Hoard of the Dragon Queen adventure.

>> No.37744443


>Eagle. While raging, you have a flying speed equal to your current walking speed. This benefit works only in short bursts; you fall if you end your turn in the air and nothing else is holding you aloft.

I believe that's all up to RAW interpretation

>> No.37744447

I created a Spirit Pact warlock for an upcoming eastern-themed game I'll be playing in. It's a reflavored fiend pact warlock with a different expanded spell list (divination and protection rather than fire damage), so it shouldn't be broken. I'm terrible at making homebrew so I'd love any advice you can give. Thanks!

>> No.37744474

blade lock actually has the best melee damage in the game I believe.

start with a level of fighter and take polearm master ASAP. if the DM lets you do variant human, that's 1d10+str+1d4+str+2d6=21 average damage with hex if everything hits, at level 2. Plus fighter gives you heavy armor and con saves for concentration.

Spells: Hex for sure. Armor of Agathys is nice too.

Incantations: Fiendish Vigor(? the false life one) is good at low levels. Maybe swap it out later.

>> No.37744482

Seems ok. Nothing to worry about, you didn't change much. Might want to add some fluff about being sent to Yomi on that last ability, if it matches your setting.

>> No.37744484

Confirmed to be warlock level, not total level. thesageadvice.eu has a tweet.

>> No.37744492

Why do you get Dark One's Blessing AND the best cantrip in the game? No other pact grants two features at level 1.

I think instead of going half-way, you should go through with a full set of features that is completely separate from the Fiend features.

>> No.37744514

Warlock level, iirc.

>> No.37744516

Is that really the best cantrip in the game? OK, I could remove the refluffed dark one's blessing and just keep the cantrip, it fits the theme better. And I don't want to make a whole new class from scratch because I'm terrible at making homebrew and it would likely be imbalanced. I think it works OK once I remove the dark one's blessing thing.

>> No.37744522


>> No.37744526

Elemental Warlock sounds fun

>> No.37744539

the only Kami worth giving your soul to

>> No.37744542

That's nice at low levels, but I can't see it scaling too favorably. I haven't run the numbers, though.

Damn. Sorta liked the idea of a level 13 ancients paladin making a pact with a fey, dipping two levels and getting witch sight. Might allow that when/if I dm, I really don't see it being broken.

>> No.37744553

You don't make pacts with the elements anon, it'll be a Primordial Pact.

>> No.37744591

Yeah but your going to be using elemental powers, therefore Elemental Warlock
I'm calling all the other new classes Elementals as well, since it's easier

>> No.37744600

I think they'll go with elemental lord in this edition rather than primordial.

>> No.37744620

I'm just saying, there will be the elemental sorcerer as well, I think they'll want a different term for the pact and primordial is both distinct and signifies a being rather than a force of nature.

>> No.37744623

Being a palladin is actually great

>> No.37744652



>> No.37744668


Well, how did the NPCs react to that?

>> No.37744720

I don't even know what a Primordial is and my Google-fu is failing me (besides stuff for 4e)
Mind pointing it out for me?

>> No.37744734

you stupid shit fuck

>> No.37744745


It's from 4e.

>> No.37744746


>> No.37744747

have you even looked at Battlemaster?

You do much more than just hit them with your sword.

>> No.37744755

For you ;)

>> No.37745192

>have copies of the 5e core books, but all files are Xbox Huge
>see the general, check the mfire link to see if there might be optimized copies there
>link leads me to my own documents folder

Well, shit. At least I have some consolation in that I was able to hook up the eleventybillion anons who've downloaded the files so far.

>> No.37745287


So i've wanted to make a Hamon user monk archtype (Joeseph Joestar based).

Is that something people would be interested in? Any good ideas for distinguishing features?

>> No.37745315

I want to play a wizard. How do I reconcile my desire to optimize the character with my desire to not play an elf, and my feeling that a gnome wouldn't fit my character concept?

>> No.37745375


By not being a munchkin

>> No.37745430

You could also play a human, a tiefling, or a half-human. You could perhaps explain what's wrong with Gnome.

>> No.37745480

That's an interesting case. I put forth the counter example- Hamon is Smite, not Ki. Jonathan was clearly a paladin. Joseph would be multiclassed.

>> No.37745492

I made a little set of setting rules for final fantasy tactics advance, if you are interested. They are made to be used as the only race choices in the setting, but they should be ok with other races. They have less stat boosts than normal and more features.

This is the current situation
Hume: human.
Bangaa: +1 con, +1 str, relentless endurance (if they go to 0 hp they get to 1 once per short rest), 1 more hp per level, dragonborn's breath weapon.
Viera: +1 dex, darkvision 60 feet, mask of the wild (hide better in the wild), cunning (advantage on int/wis/cha saves against magic), +5 feet movement, proficiency in either survival athletics stealth or nature.
Nu Mou: +1 int, +1 wis, speak with small beasts, proficiency in either arcana history nature or religion and proficiency in either animal handling medicine insight or perception, black magic basics (you get either fire bolt, shocking grasp or ray of frost and they work with int), white magic basics (cure wounds once a day, it works with wis), resistance against radiant, fire, cold and lightning damage.
Moogle: +1 charisma, small size and -5 feet movement, naturally stealthy (you can hide behind bigger size allies), nimbleness (you can move through the spaces of bigger creatures), lucky (reroll 1s), proficiency in either disguise kit forgery kit thieves' tools or navigator's tools and proficiency in either acrobatics sleight of hand stealth or investigation and proficiency in either deception intimidation performance or persuasion, tinker (like gnome's tinker with additional proficiency in airships)

I like the idea of moogles with feather fall though, I didn't think about it.

There are also the ffta2 races, but I have no space for those.

>> No.37745514

With gnome I'm not sure I could pull off the high energy personality described for them, though I suppose I could always play one against type somehow. Beyond that I just wanted a kind of pastoral farming village background that I think wouldn't be suitable to gnomes or elves.

Human or half elf probably fits best, but I tend to get antsy about making what appear to me to be less than optimized character creation decisions, because in the past I've been rendered useless compared to all the other PCs because of roleplaying oriented character creation on my part. (Gnome and high elf seem to me to be flat out the best wizard race choices.)

>> No.37745516

I desperately want to play a half orc gladiator bard that plays the part of a dumb guy when fighting in the arena, but is actually a literate actor that knows what the crowd wants. It would also be optimised for grappling shenanigans. But I'm a forever DM.

>> No.37745520


Since when are paladins that good with unarmed strike? Jonathan clearly did some multiclassing himself.

>> No.37745524

There's a more important question... class feature are stands?

>> No.37745529


>> No.37745588

> dragonborn's breath weapon.
Eh? Where'd that come from? I know they could be dragoons, but that's far from a racial trait.

> cunning
Seems too good. I'd make it limited uses, once per short rest maybe.

> nu mou magic and resists
Seems way too good, on both counts. I don't even know how to scale that down, replace them with far weaker things.

> moogle proficiencies
Seems a bit too much, especially next to those strong abilities. Scale that down.

> feather fall
Give them 5 ft of flight, that'll serve the same effect and fit them better overall.

>> No.37745601

> Seems
> Seems
> Seems
Jeez, why do I do these things.

>> No.37745614

>Give them 5 ft of flight, that'll serve the same effect and fit them better overall.

>> No.37745644 [DELETED] 

Everyone loves the warlock's invocations, so those should been more of a focus of the class design. Effects like "Hex" should be class features. The warlock misses out on the damage potential/utility of a wizard but does some really interesting stuff on their own. I was thinking about these ability while laying in bed and wrote them down. I'm not talking about a change to anything, just something I was thinking about when considering the ultimate warlock.

>> No.37745659

Since there's no dragoon class, that's there to allow them to be dragoons by just making a spear based fighter.

Cunning is exactly the gnome's cunning, it's the second time someone thinks it's too much, while I just stripped it from the handbook and is actually pretty situational.

Nu mou black magic is the "choose a cantrip from the wizard's list" from the high elves, but with much less choice. White magic works like tiefling's infernal legacy but gets no power up in future levels. Magic resistance might be too good, but those kinds of damage are pretty rare, I would just tick off the radiant damage resistance, if it seems too much.

Moogles at this stage are literally lightfoot halflings with no dex, the two proficiencies make up for that. I think featherfall is better than flight in this, the moment they get even just 5 feet of flying means they can just stay up in the air for as much time as they want, and moogles spend most of their time on the ground (also we don't want them to be shooting enemies from up in the air right from the first levels). I'll post the new moogles with featherfallish feature in a second.

>> No.37745662


I'll give you Jonathon was definitely a paladin, but the flavour of hamon being that it taught by literal Tibetan monks and generally used unarmed the monk class fits better.

>> No.37745675

I agree sorta, but if it were a class feature it wouldn't be concentration based, I think? Stacking it with other concentration effects might be too much.

>> No.37745679

I can even defend my suggestion. Paladins are better at fighting undead, can heal others with their power, and a level 11 paladin's unarmed strike does more base damage(1+1d8radiant) than a monk's(1d8) while smite allows for a great one or two round nova.

>> No.37745683


Stands would have to be a completely new class, with class archetypes representing three broad types of stand (Fighty, Subtle, Magic?) and leave the visual interpretation to the players.

>> No.37745688

Everyone likes the warlock's invocations, so I thought maybe the class should be more focused around them. The warlock shouldn't have the damage/utility of the wizard but should be able to do somethings they can't. Maybe get some invocations at certain levels instead of spells that do something like these:

>> No.37745701

i was drunk and posted the wrong thing
see here: >>37745688

>> No.37745731

>literal Tibetan monks
>teach D&D paladin abilities.
I don't know whether that's a fail or a success.

>> No.37745733

Moogle: +1 cha, small size and -5 feet movement, naturally stealthy (you can hide behind bigger size allies), nimbleness (you can move through the spaces of bigger creatures), lucky (reroll 1s), proficiency in either deception intimidation performance or persuasion, tinker (like gnome's tinker with additional proficiency in airships and navigator's tools), small wings (your falling's rate of descent is 60 feet per round, when you land you take no falling damage and can land on your feet).

Also while I'm here I'll post the ffta2 races
Gria: +1 str, small size and -5 feet movement, can use heavy weapons as if it was medium size, proficiency in longbow, greatsword, long sword and glaive, wings (10 feet flying speed but has to land at the end of the turn or fall, it grows to 20 feet at level 3, at level 5 there's no need to land anymore, it grows 10 feet every 2 level until it becomes 60 feet at level 13).
Seeq: +1 str, +5 feet movement, savage attacks (add a weapon die on crit), proficiency in net, longbow, greatsword, greataxe and warhammer, proficiency in either athletics, stealth, survival or intimidation and any tool proficiency except poisoner's kit.

>> No.37745760

what's a funny moogle name for a character i wonder

>> No.37745784

List of Mognet moogles in Final Fantasy 9 and their respective locations:
Kupo - Alexandria
Monty - Evil Forest/Pinnacle Rocks
Mois - Ice Cavern/Fossil Roo
Gumo - Dali
Kumop - Dali
Mogki - Lindblum Castle Guest Room
Atla - Burmecia Vault
Grimo - Aerbs Mountains South Gate
Nazna - Aerbs Mountains Summit
Mochos - Gargan Roo
Monev - Cleyra's Trunk
Mopli - Cleyra
Serino - Red Rose
Moodon - Lindblum Inn
Mosh - Alexandria Chapel
Moonte - Lindblum Dragon Gate
Kuppo - Fossil Roo
Mogmatt - Conde Petie
Suzuna - Conde Petie Mountain Path
Mogryo - Black Mage Village
Mocchi - Iifa Tree
Mimoza - Oeilvert Entrance
Mooel - Oeilvert Interior
Mojito - Desert Palace
Mogsam - Desert Palace Library
Mogrika - Esto Gaza
Moolan - Mount Gulug
Mogtaka - Mount Gulug
Kumool - Ipsen's Castle
Moorock - Bran Bal
Mozme - Pandemonium
Noggy - Daguerreo

>> No.37745790

> Since there's no dragoon class, that's there to allow them to be dragoons by just making a spear based fighter.
Pansy. At least make them a feat for it, you can boost the effect in that case as well.

> cunning
Eh, fair point. I'd still make the case that it doesn't fit them that well, though. Maybe something nature themed or charm resistance or something. They were very much like fey in their origins, even if that's distant history in the ffta era. Otherwise, the only constant attributes are related to them is agility.

> moogle flight
Give them the same "need to land at the end of your turn" shtick raging barbarians have and that problem is solved entirely. This way they can jump and glide another space or similar.

Reasonable argument on the rest, I suppose.

>> No.37745813

Change Quivering Palm to do radiant damage instead of necrotic. Done.

>> No.37745881

I guess you have a point on bangaas, I'll make a dragoon breath feat and give them something else as a feature.

Well, I see cunning as resistance on status effect, which is exactly one of their classics in ffta since they are the only ones able to wear ribbons. The other constant attributes related to them is magic, they have tons of magic classes and the only summoners available (basically the best "cleric" class).

I gave that to grias at least in their first levels, though. It seems easier to use the way I worded it in the last version. But I'll think about giving them the flying speed I suppose.

>> No.37745955

Trait: Don't Call Them Lizards
they get advantage on anyone who calls them a lizard

>> No.37746003

That's funny, but I wouldn't use it.

New bangaa.

Bangaa: +1 con, +1 str, relentless endurance (if they go to 0 hp they get to 1 once per short rest), 1 more hp per level, armor training (differently from the dwarf's armor training it brings the proficiency up one step, from no proficiency to light armor, from light armor to medium armor, from medium armor to heavy armor).

I was thinking of making viera's ribbon effect with advantage on saving throws against being poisoned, paralyzed or charmed (also the first two would make good sense with an assassin viera). Or maybe charmed, frightened and stunned for a more "psychological resistance" kind of effect.

>> No.37746042

>genasi coming out in elemental book for fifth
>already rolled my character for the current campaign I'm in
>DM doesn't allow rerolls
>I can't make my noblebright acidborn genasi paladin with aspirations of rising above her foul elemental heritage

love is pain, /tg/

>> No.37746066

Well the viera are certainly magical, but having them be defensive in that way is what doesn't fit. Maybe play up the summoner angle give them features relating to fey and outsiders. Once per individual social check advantage? That's a rather minor thing, though.

I'll have to think on them.

The gria would likely be better at flight than moogles, say 10 ft of their movement can be airborne. And being medium they'd have a full 30 ft of movement total. Of course they get a little less other benefits in exchange.

Another thought, if either of these races get a flying speed by some other means, they could add their limited flight to the total. So a gria eagle barbarian would have 40 ft of flying. Might be too much?

> armor training
I don't like that if they have heavy anyway there is no benefit, but that's what the dwarves have to deal with.

> "psychological resistance"
That certainly seems apt.

>> No.37746100

Do you know why your DM doesn't allow rerolls? Ask them about it after the book comes out.

>> No.37746170

Can you not make a reason to leave the party? I wanted to reroll, so my last character decided to leave because the last fight we had resulted in one death and almost 3 more, and so he felt the party was too incompetent

>> No.37746192

Kill yourself. I mean... take every opportunity to make heroic sacrifices. Especially ones where they'll never find the body for resurrection.

>> No.37746214

>paladin of dirty or evil race trying to redeem themselves

How original.

>> No.37746235


Why doesn't the GM allow reroll? Also, is acidborn really a "foul elemental heritage"?

>> No.37746284

What's your favorite 5e fluff/lore lore elements, so far?

I like the explanation on why the Elves are resistant to paralysis, and the descriptions of Hell.

Guess who's back, back again
Zariel's back, tell a fiend

>> No.37746301

It depends on your opinion. How good is flight? How restricted should it be?

I'm of the opinion that if it isn't full flight, you might as well throw it around like candy. Flight with a max height of 5 ft gets around most of the problems with giving a character flight, i.e. being untouchable, while giving a lot of the intended bonuses such as ignoring light obstacles on the ground. While FFTA Moogles generally don't do this, a LOT of Final Fantasy moogles in general tend to hover lightly above the ground, so it's till "in the mythology." to do something like that. And it means that the Gria's version of flight, which is more like radical repositioning rather than full flight, still works out being separate but awesome.

And, that works a lot like the video game, as well. Gria didn't have the ability to move as far as Moogles did but they got to effectively avoid elevation and rough terrain, while Moogles could scream across the field basically as fast as they wanted to but elevation could give them some issues - If they can hover just over the ground but their movement speed is based on how far they want to run they can dash large distances quickly, but don't have the ability to go up short distances like the stronger Gria race.

>> No.37746378

I'll have to think of something about outsiders and fey, but the advantage on being charmed, frightened and stunned seems like an easy way out.

Grias are actually small sized.

>Another thought, if either of these races get a flying speed by some other means, they could add their limited flight to the total. So a gria eagle barbarian would have 40 ft of flying. Might be too much?
Oh! Good thinking there, I didn't think about it. Anyway I wanted Grias to get proper 60 feet flying by level 13. If I lower the number to 30 I don't see it as particularly game breaking, grias would have nothing else other than that, and a wizard can just use the Fly spell to give 60 feet flying to anyone for 10 minutes by level 5 (in addition to their 30 feet walking). With a racial flying speed of 30 an eagle barbarian gria would get around 60 feet normal flying speed by level 14, it seems fine to me.

I see what you mean with the armor proficiency, but they already get a lot of good stuff for fighting classes, losing a feature is not a big deal when you have all the rest. Maybe I should give them savage attacks? They would become basically half orcs though.

>> No.37746432

Or maybe they are not small size, I'm trying to compare the sprite and maybe it's bigger than moogles, are they just the size of very short humans?

>> No.37746769

What if I give vieras spells once a day in total tiefling style? Expeditious retreat at first level, enhance ability at 3rd level and haste at 5th level. I don't know if it's a stretch for the purely physical classes like fencer, archer and sniper, but it doesn't seem too out of place, most of the times physical vieras end up being mixed with stuff like elementalist/spellblade magic or assassin spellish skills. This transmutation stuff is not even very magic-looking, you just go faster after casting it.
Or maybe conjuration style for their summoner ability with: fog cloud, then misty step at 3rd level and conjure animals at 5th level.

>> No.37747042

>Grias are actually small sized.
I don't see it. Sure they are lithe and probably short, but I can imagine them being closer to halflings than dwarves overall.

Some other thoughts:
Nu Mou are naturally magic users, but not tied to any specific sort. So give them a free magic initiate feat to use as they please. This is pretty strong, so be mindful of the other benefits.

Breath weapons for bangaa can work as a feat, but it seems odd for it to be a thing they learn to do ad opposed to it being natural or not. A dragonblooded subrace might be more appropriate. Of course that means you need an alternative subrace with another unique feature.

Maybe. I'm a bit leery of just handing them spells, as you pointed out they have purely martial paths as well (or what counts for that in final fantasy, anyway). One possibility is to give them two subraces, one magic/lore orientated and one with more of a martial focus. They wouldn't really be different races, but different specializations of their culture. This is based on ff12, where viera were separated into basically rangers and alchemists. It's not a huge stretch to have a martial and magic divide continue from that.

>> No.37747060

*can't imagine
Way to reverse the point I was making, me.

>> No.37747075

If this system is dumb enough to allow bardic horsecasting, why does anybody not immediately trashcan it?

>> No.37747115

Because it doesn't, twit.

>> No.37747127

bardic horsecasting is a symptom of a bigger problem I have with 5e: lack of set definitions.

The reason horsecasting is a thing is because it relies on how the word "target" is used, when target is a completely arbitrary definition that's used about 3 different ways.

>> No.37747205


Find me a system that doesn't have a bug like that, or even worse.

Unless you're doing freeform RP with obsessive lawyers and linguists, there isn't.

>> No.37747242

Well nu mous already get white magic basics (cure wounds once a day with wis) and black magic basics (a wizard cantrip with int), I'd say there's no need to put feats in the middle of that.

I don't know about starting to add subraces everywhere, they can simply be different classes for that matter. In FFTA they simply learn how to breath elemental stuff at some point if they are dragoons, so I don't see why not, using a feat seems like the best option. If armor proficiency is eh I was thinking of giving them advantage on str and con saving throws against magic.

For the viera I still have to come up with something decent if innate magic doesn't seem perfectly appropriate.

>> No.37747251

Also I forgot to say that I agree with you about gria, I was wrong.

>> No.37747299

Yes, because it's a problem when you have to use common sense to play a game.

Stay classy /tg/

>> No.37747367

Dragon Warriors, 2008 edition. Talislanta, 4th edition. Masterbook, JAGS, EABA. Go ahead and point out the analogous flaws.

Gettin' real tired of people who've never played anything but D&D blithely assume that all the rules systems they never glanced at have the same problems, and making sweeping statements to that effect.

>> No.37747388

>Elves are resistant to paralysis
Where does it say that?

As for your question, I like the way they described the Border Elemental Planes in detail.

>> No.37747390

Why is her nose bleeding? Has she seen something lewd.

Also why is her throat open? Is it a clever spell meant to counter silence curses by making another mouth?

>> No.37747562

Here's a viera that might be better.

Viera: +1 dex, darkvision 60 feet, mask of the wild (hide better in the wild), +15 feet movement, proficiency in either survival perception nature or investigation and proficiency in either acrobatics sleight of hand stealth or athletics, proficiency with shortbow longbow rapier and scimitar, move at normal speed in difficult terrain, trackless step.

I like this one, with this you can make a very good sniper (hunter ranger), fencer (battlemaster fighter) or assassin out of it, but also a very respectable elementalist (druid), red mage (bard) or summoner (conjurer wizard I guess). The movement features make it very peculiar, but you can use them nicely even if you are not a stealth class like a rogue or a nature-based class like a druid.

>> No.37747623

>Where does it say that?

In the Ghoul entry, in the MM

>> No.37747821

Okay, I just read that segment on the ghouls.

So... does this mean that Doresain is a good guy now, since he owes a debt to the elvish gods?

>> No.37747880

I like the quotes in the Monster Manual that have a humorous bent to them. For example in the Giant section:
>"And here is where Angerroth the Barbarian fell against the giant horde. His bones are under that boulder over there." - Elder Zelane of Istivin, recounting the Giant Wars
And just the general good sense of humor that this edition seems to have in its fluff and writing.

>> No.37747908

>So... does this mean that Doresain is a good guy now, since he owes a debt to the elvish gods?

Yup. It's not even a question of debt: he asked them for salvation, and he got it.

I would say he's under probation, though. He aready betrayed them once and has shown to be a turncoat when convenient.

>> No.37747952


I like this, too

>"No one carves statues of frigthened warriors. If you see one, keep your eyes closed and your ears open"

>> No.37748016

>"Manticores love the taste of human flesh. That's why, on trips through the mountains, I always travel with human guards." - Marthok Uldarr, dwarf copper merchant

>> No.37748041

+50% movement? Are they that much faster than everybody else in FFTA, or is +15' a typo?

>> No.37748122

I was saying as a replacement for that, so every nu mou wasn't already two specific kinds of mage before whatever else they took as a class. Slot wise all they gain is a single cantrip, but they do get far more flexibility in selection. If I were using this variant, along with (maybe not all of) your other benefits, I would probably give them only a +1 to the relevant casting stat. But yours is balanced as it is, so don't feel that I'm saying it isn't good.

> I don't know about starting to add subraces everywhere
Fair enough. It's just as easy to give a singular ability that has options to choose from. The dragonborn is a good precedent for this. The reason I was a little against the feat is that a d&d game doesn't have job systems, people don't just change professions like a set of clothing. But again, it's fine as a feat (I'd have to see it to say if it's balanced, though).

Not bad. The weapon proficiency seems a little wasted though, since every class you want them associated with using them already has them, outside of the red mage concept. Giving them ranger class features further penalizes being a ranger. Give them features that enhance the builds you want to encourage. A bonus point to damage with bows rapiers and scimitars, for instance. For the rangery aspect, give them a +1 to ac in difficult terrain. The movement bonus seems a little much, if I'm reading it right. 45 feet on a normal move, 75 if dashing?

>> No.37748149

The speed is significant, depending on class. But not by quite that margin, and the games speed was turn frequency as opposed to movement distance.

>> No.37748185


>> No.37748252

Unarmored Defense isn't really that good unless you're rolling stats and have a bunch of spare 18s to fling around.

>> No.37748329

I don't think I've seen that image since 2008, m8.

>> No.37748375

Their movement distance in ffta is the same as every other race, but their speed stat is the best of the game, the assassin viera can get to a horribly broken amount of speed. The only other one that can (kinda) compete is the human ninja.

The ranger doesn't have mask of the wild, trackless step, nor the good movement in bad terrain. It's rangerish style, but rangers don't have it, making viera rangers even more specialised.
I see your point with the weapon proficiency though, but you really really never ever shouldn't think of racial bonuses in 5e as +1 to something, because it's not how 5e works. You can give advantage, you can give proficiencies, you can give dice bonuses, you can never give a +something. Look at the current races. Accuracy is completely bounded.
The movement bonus seems fine to me, they don't have any other noticeable feature now and this way it's a noticeable boost, instead of an amount that you can't even see like 5 feet more or less. Consider them as wood elves with less wood elves features and a weaker version of the mobile feat.

>> No.37748401

>double negative
I'm a fucking idiot. I meant
> you really really never ever should
>you really really shouldn't

>> No.37748458

Correction, the ranger has the land's stride feature. Well, I guess I'll have to change that one.

>> No.37748496

Blade Ward might be nice while you're closing on a target, in case you're taking arrows from somewhere. Eldritcch Blast is a must-have, even if you don't boost it with agonizing blast.

Armor of Agathys, Mirror Image, Arms of Hadar, and Misty Step/Dimension Door are all good for a bladelock. If you go feylock like me, Blick and Greater Invisibility are also nice. If you grab the Devil's sight invocation, picking up Darkness is also good - you'll lose Hex due to concentration, but you can pretty much solo an encounter at that point.

For invocations, Fiendish Vigor is good at low levels, but you should swap it out later. Thirsting Blade and Lifedrinker are no-brainers, as is Armor of Shadows if you don't dip another class for armors. The rest should probably be utility invocations, though if you can fit Agonizing blast in there somewhere you'll be a great ranged blaster as well as a melee character.

>> No.37748594

What if I was going Dex>Con>Str? I understand I'd be missing out on the bonus damage from Rage, but I'm not really in it for that.

>> No.37748632

No. Are you a champion fighter?

Danger Sense is nice, but would you really benefit from Unarmored Defense?

>> No.37748863

I was thinking Battlemaster. Also, >>37748594

>> No.37748867

Current situation of races that got changed today.
Bangaa: +1 con, +1 str, relentless endurance (if they go to 0 hp they get to 1 once per short rest), 1 more hp per level, magic resilience (advantage on constitution saving throws against magic).
Viera: +1 dex, darkvision 60 feet, mask of the wild (hide better in the wild), +15 feet movement, proficiency in either survival perception nature or investigation and proficiency in either acrobatics sleight of hand stealth or athletics, trackless step, dazzling (when you make an attack roll against a creature you don't provoke opportunity attacks from that creature for the rest of the turn whether you hit or not).
Nu Mou: +1 int, +1 wis, proficiency in either arcana history nature or religion and proficiency in either animal handling medicine insight or perception, black magic basics (you get either fire bolt, shocking grasp and ray of frost, they work with int), white magic basics (cure wounds once a day, it works with wis), beastmaster's songs (animal friendship and speak with animals once a day, they work with wis).
Moogle: +1 cha, small size and -5 feet movement, naturally stealthy (you can hide behind bigger size allies), nimbleness (you can move through the spaces of bigger creatures), lucky (reroll 1s), proficiency in either deception intimidation performance or persuasion, tinker (like gnome's tinker with additional proficiency in airships and navigator's tools), small wings (they have 5 feet flying speed, they fall if they end their turn in the air and nothing else is holding them aloft).
Gria: +1 str, proficiency in longbow greatsword long sword and glaive, wings (they have 20 feet flying speed, they fall if they end their turn in the air and nothing else is holding them aloft).

I'll remind you that flying speed is always added to normal speed in 5e, so grias are currently faster than vieras, but it's all they have.

>> No.37748923

I was also thinking of a dragoon archetype for the fighter.
Martial archetype Dragoon or Dragon Knight:
3rd level: polearm master feat for free, advantage on survival checks to track dragons and on intelligence checks to recall informations about them, learn draconic.
7th level: lancet (something like when you use this feature you recover hp equal to the damage you inflict with attacks this turn, you can use it once per short rest)
10th level: jump (basically like the eagle barbarian feature and with additional damage when falling on enemies from more than 30 feet)
15th level: dragon breath once per short rest, getting it so late means it can be decently powerful.
18th level: young dragon companion (this might be too much, but it's unarguably cool)

>> No.37749017

Honestly, the only big thing that needs balancing is that damage immunity. And that's a tough one. I guess you could turn it into resistance to tone it down, though that's still very strong. The biggest balance to this sort of this, if any, is going to be that people fear and loathe lycanthropes as monsters. Should their nature be discovered, it'll be like wearing around a big sign that says "I WILL EAT YOUR CHILDREN." Now, that may or may not be a big inconvenience.

How I would usually handle stuff like this is to give all the non-lycanthropes their own super awesome thing based on their own wants and just run a higher-powered game. At least that's how I used to do things in 3.x.

>> No.37749114

You need a 20 dex and 20 con to surpass simply putting on some heavy armor. Iron Pecs is nice to have, but it isn't great. You're basically talking about dropping Fighter levels to get the Bear Totem damage resistance.

>> No.37749240

Oops, an 18 and a 20.

>> No.37749504

I keep seeing those individual spell lists.

Here is a compiled spell list organized by level and class . hyperlinks to each spell description. This thing is super useful if you're dming.

>> No.37749739

Do mountain dwarf, wear half-plate, be a muscle wizard.

>> No.37749966

That is quite handy, I think this might be worthy of going into the intro of the general

>> No.37750028

Since monks are now primary Dex and Wis based, do you think there's a chance of a Strength based sub class?

>> No.37750183

I don't see that happening, because it would mean that the monk starts as a dex only based class to become a str based class only later. If anything we might get an archetype that is dex based with some str effects.

>> No.37750375


If you're somehow still here, not very. Especially for a brand new DM, cause it would take an expert to mash out the encounters to balance right with only 1 PC and a DMPC.

Instead, see if you can find more people to fill out those roles of the other characters. And for the love of god, don't MAKE new characters with the beginner box. Just use the ones in there. The adventure is designed around them.

>> No.37750534

Well see, I could use medium+dex bonus until those fighter ability boosts kick in, and in the meantime I'd still be using danger sense and bear totem. Its kind of a slow burn, but the idea is I goading attack all day every day.

>> No.37750536

Didn't realize all the flight was adding instead of converting, I would have done it the other way. There isn't precedent for races with so much movement I don't think so I can't say how much it's worth balance wise.

I still feel the Nu Mou shouldn't get all those kinds of magic at once. It's not like they're known as red mages.

>> No.37750706

Pick one or the other, Holmes. If you want lots of meat, just go Bear Barbarian, imo.

>> No.37751232

Of course, common sense says bardic horsecasting is fucking dumb and isn't how the game is supposed to work.

It is entirely rules legal however, though rules legal in the same way Pun-Pun and Cross-Continental Cleaving is(ie, rules-legal, but expect to get a DMG thrown at you if you try to actually use it)

>> No.37751353

> Cross-Continental Cleaving
Haven't heard of this one. Explain?

>> No.37751382

>List off several RPGs that no one other than their own creators has even heard of, let alone bought and played

Gettin' real tired of people who assume that because nobody has found any bugs that means that bugs aren't present. The reason there aren't any reported glitches in a lot of video games is because nobody with the technical know-how has given those video games two glances. EVERYTHING has bugs and glitches, and you're incredibly naive to assume any system is without them.

>> No.37751769

There is no precedent for races with that much movement, but I've seen a level 3 wood elf ranger with the mobile feat in action and it's pretty much the same. In this case, since it already adds an effect that does the same things of the mobile feat, the viera wouldn't be choosing the mobile feat for +25 feet.

I'm not sure about the gria instead, because that is a very large amount of flying speed for first level players.

The nu mou seems fine to me, in FFTA during the first levels it's very easy to have a nu mou with basic white magic and black magic, then at higher levels you will use mostly one of the two, but you can still have both commands pretty easily.

>> No.37751809

Level 5 wood elf, pardon.

>> No.37751908

Helping out a couple of friends make characters. Anyone know a good build for a Hussar-style warrior and a minion-Master Necromancer?

>> No.37752646

Back when I first played 3.5, we had a guy who used a Paladin as a Dragoon, and the DM let him roll for his Jump skill against the target's AC for jumping attacks.

It was fun.

Also, I remember a guy on a forum I used to frequent made an Ivalice-based d20 game, so this Ivalice 5e project is pretty interesting.

>> No.37752683

> Hussar-style warrior
Fighter. Possibly with mounted combat feat.

>minion-Master Necromancer
Wizard. Necromancy school. Take the Noble background and talk to the DM about having his retainers be skeletons instead of living people.

>> No.37752934

Fuck you buddy. There's more than one fucking play style. Don't be such a condescending prick.

>> No.37752990

We're going to be starting a 5e game soon and I'm not sure if my character idea is ok.

Basically, she's from a fairly well off family (father's an ex-military armourer, mother's just a housewife) and her constant curiosity eventually led her to the subject of magic. As her parents weren't magical, didn't have the money to send her to magic school (shit's expensive yo) and the city didn't have any wizards lying around to become and apprentice to she found a job at the city library to try and scavenge some information in magic. A few notes here and there taught her some basic cantrips, but over the course of her work most of what she found was untranslatable. She's not particularly experienced with the outside world due to her bookishness, but she's not socially inept. Her curiosity could easily get her into trouble, not helped by how single-minded she gets when close to a discovery.

There's a few other things I've thought of and some half-formed ideas, but that's the basic idea of her. What do you think and is there anything wrong with her?

>> No.37753205

>dat feel when introducing people to DnD
>having to make all of their characters beforehand
>extremely boring and generic character suggestions from them

/tg/, if you were in my shoes, would you take over and give them interesting personalities or just let them be self inserts?

>> No.37753251

Seems fine, only gripe I have is if your going for a wizard you've pretty much learned a couple of level 1 spells as well, so take that into account

>> No.37753264

The suggestions, if you cared, were
A human assassin who is 2good4u
A dwarven Cleric who grew up in a pumpkin patch
"Anything tanky"
and a ranger with a hawk.

>> No.37753328

Expand on the pumpkin patch Dwarf, that sounds fun

>> No.37753450


Making them an interesting character is the easy part. Being able to act out interesting characters is a learned skill, and probably not something they're able to do if they don't have a background in it.

>> No.37753481

Let them have their genericness. Give them interesting npcs to interact with, and interesting scenarios. Force them to develop character by way of interaction. They are new, need to learn, friendo.

'Cept the pumpkin bumpkin, that's great.

>> No.37753556

I would just leave them with their characters, there is a chance that you could make a character that's not fun to play for the person
In fact I think it would be a pretty dickish thing to do, since you're giving me your character to play for you

>> No.37753795

Thanks, good to see I've gotten better at writing them then :P

>> No.37753833

Need comments and criticism on a dk homebrew class I've decided to build by cannibalizing various other homebrew dk classes I've come across for various editions, and tweaking from there.

On my to do list are:

>Add archetypes
>Minion functionality
>A half life functionality, ie being dead but not really for people who want alive characters, who are also dead.
>More abilities/profanities


>> No.37753957


I also shamelessly ripped abilities from the oathbreaker paladin, being as it's the closest thing there is to an official dk class.

>> No.37754246


I really really like this pic.

it's so fucked up and awesome, muh body horror.

>> No.37754316

Sounds cute. Does she have any friends? What does she look like?

What sorts of things does she enjoy doing besides reading and learning about magic?

>> No.37754347

Pumpkin Dwarf is easily the most interesting dwarf I've read about or seen in a long time.

Expand on that. He or She is your chosen one, Anon, the Holy Champion of the Great Pumpkin!

>> No.37754349

At first glance I can tell you have fuckhuge auras. 60 ft? Look at the paladin progression for that.

>> No.37754543

>Be a Dwarf Nature Cleric that goes around blessing big gains on peoples pumpkins
Sounds awesome

>> No.37754587

His name is Jimmy. That's all I got. He's the only one with a name and a story other than the assassin who's whole story is him being real good at being an assassin.
Will do
Oh my god. I am doing this, there will be a pumpkin hating BBEG and when the time comes, I will introduce the prophecy of Jimmy the Pumpkin King

>> No.37754720


Aura's were ripped from another homebrew, 60 does seem excessive for this edition. I'll probably cut it down to 30. The 10 feet I saw in paladin auras seems a bit too short for these, considering the paladin auras are situationally more impactful their range is more justified.

>> No.37754782

The villainous pumpkin hating Lord Gallagher.

>> No.37755073

They want characters that are thematically bland? Excellent. No need to have character creation outshine play experience.

>> No.37755110

So, I'm planning on making a Valor bard, and I'm trying to decide whether I should focus on Strength or Dexterity. Looking through the class features, nothing really keys off of Dexterity, and I have a Soldier background. My skill proficiencies are:

What reason do I have to choose Dexterity over Strength, aside from Dexterity saves and Initiative?

>> No.37755124

Well it is nice to have some hook to go with. Even if it isn't terribly original.

>> No.37755176

None. Muscle Bard to your heart's content. Consider putting your Expertise into Atheletics when the time comes. Get yourself a lucha libre mask and have the most awesomest character in the history of awesomeness.

>> No.37755195

Such as the pumpkin king dwarven cleric Jimmy

>> No.37755204

AC, and finesse weapon attacks? Really you can get by just dumping strength. In terms of character concept, just being low in str doesn't make you a waif. A good dex can mean a nicely toned sort of person.

>> No.37755205

Shit, I hadn't thought about those. Better make something up.

Most of the people who work at the library are fairly old, though she made friends with a couple of the younger ones. One of them is somewhat similar to her in that he's obsessed with knowledge, though he's more interested in gods, angels, demons etc. whereas the other is just doing the job for a bit of coin with little manual labour and so is kinda lazy, but enjoys seeing what she can get away with in annoying the elders. Other than them there's the kids in the house nearby who look up to her like an older sister, though doesn't see them much recently as she works late.

As for looks she's fairly plain. Brown, shoulder-length hair kept straight, dark green eyes and quite pale skin due to her lack of time outdoors. She carries a satchel with various notes and writing equipment, her spellbook and a small knife.

Apart from reading and research she mostly sits and daydreams or writes rubbish stories. Her father tried to get her to try blacksmithing once, which didn't go well for obvious reasons.

Also a little extra about her family: Her father think her endeavours to learn magic are brilliant and supports her as much as he can, her mother doesn't really approve but so long as she enjoys it and is successful then it's ok, her aunt (mother's sister, teacher at city school for rich kids) thinks she's silly and should become and priestess of Ioun if she's so enamoured with knowledge.

Any more? Also I haven't checked for mistakes, so do forgive me.

>> No.37755229

With new players I've found that it's generally adequate to just let them take it for granted that they go off and explore mysterious ruins and perform valorous tasks for the Baron and rescue damsels in distress.

Plot hooks are nice, but are mostly needed with jaded veterans that have already in "been there, done that" mode.

>> No.37755234

I was referring to the others as lacking that certain panache, the pumpkin guy is good to go.

>> No.37755285

I think any character called Jimmy in a D&D is bound for greatness

>> No.37755734

How old is she today? Any sweethearts, crushes, or romance in her life? How does she feel about the menace of the Orcish race?

>> No.37755747

So the overpowered Warlock/Sorcerer build simply uses Quicken Spell to cast two Eldritch Blasts per turn, with agonizing blast (+charisma) and hex (+1d6) on each of the blast's rays?

So at 5th level it does 4x blasts per turn for 1d10+1d6+charisma modifier on each attack?

How is that fair?

>> No.37755770

>tfw player keeps pointing out how minor details in my world don't make sense
>he knows I'm a noob gm
>starts asking me stupid questions like how things are spelt
I just wanted to teach newbies fifth edition /tg5e/

>> No.37755844

End him, they will forgive you.
And yet I wonder, am I right to ask this of you?

>> No.37755959

They've specifically stated that Sorclock is getting a nerf in the errata. Whether or not the nerf actually does anything remains to be seen.

Speaking of, is there a hard date for the errata release yet or is it still "sometime before spring?"

>> No.37755975

Does EB take a slot?

>> No.37755990

It's a cantrip

Only thing you expend are sorcerer's points for the metamagics

>> No.37755992

Tell him that if he thinks he can do a better job, he's free to start his own group. Otherwise, he can stfu or gtfo.

>> No.37755997

Athletics expertise with strength based bard means ultimate master of grappling and shoving. I might have said in this thread already, but I really want to make a half orc gladiator bard.

>> No.37756031

It lets you play mighty and beautiful blaster sorceress.

>> No.37756089

I'm pretty sure you can use twin spell on the second (quickened) eldritch blast too

So at 5th level it does 6 rays

>> No.37756194

>use a premade adventure
>replace friendly, helpful character with one already existing in the campaign
>friendly character gets put to sleep and kidnapped in the adventure
>the one I replaced him with is an elf
>still gets put to sleep and kidnapped
>players immediately point it out

>> No.37756348

Huh. I hope they don't overdo it. No sense making the cantrip useless or screwing over sorcerous multiclassing or whatever shit they pull.

>> No.37756360

As a chivalrous paladin of little renown, it's difficult to find doughty questing companions. That being said, what should one look for in one's adventurous comrades? While an entire company of chivalrous warriors would surely overcome any foe, verily it may be said that not all obstacles are foes to be slain.

>> No.37756368

Basically have a line of goblins from one city to another, kill the first one, then cleave until you reach the end.
Since all those cleaves happen during the same round, you travel from one town to the next near-instantly.

As I said, rules-legal, but you're getting a DMG to the face if you think the DM's actually going to let you get away with it.

>> No.37756375


Eldritch blast can hit multiple targets, thus it isn't eligible for twinning.

>> No.37756404

>Something's too good
>Better nerf it

So 5e is League of Legends edition then?

>> No.37756416


It's not as broken as it's made out to be.

Sorcery points are finite, and the hex bonus isn't useful against swarms at all.

>> No.37756501

So it's in priciple the same as the peasant railgun

>> No.37756505

It's the best dpr available, as I understand it. The hit to spellcasting is fairly minor, as well.

>> No.37756537

Since when does cleave move you? I call bullshit as soon as the next monster is out of reach.

>> No.37756595


That title belongs to barbarians once magic items come into play.

>> No.37756659

Get yourself a cutie mage, a cutie burglar, and a cutie courtier. Problems solved.

>> No.37756665

Thank you that is extremely useful

>> No.37756672

Meanwhile the sorlock has an equally useful assortment of magic items to draw from for other effects. Doesn't change the fact that it's damn cheap.

>> No.37756684

She's 23 at the time she goes off adventuring for a reason I haven't thought of yet (quest for more knowledge seems to cliché). She's had a crush or two when she was younger as people do but no-one at the moment. She'd most likely fall for someone similar to her, someone to discover and talk with.

About orcs, she's only heard of them from books and the such, but the details on them are almost non-existent. They seem to be a danger if she'd be out on the road but while she's in the city they're not really a problem. If people worked with them they could even become civilised, right?

>> No.37756714

So, fairly urgently. I am a level 3 Hobbit Wizard. What spells should I have?

Please, I have no Idea what to get, I am paralyzed with indecision

>> No.37756743

Of course there's other options...

>> No.37756793

>Something's too good
>Better nerf it

well, yeah. not sure how else you would fix that problem, unless you think they should boost the damage of every other class and combination, which aside from being needlessly complicated would also mess with all the mathematical assumptions of the MM, etc.

>> No.37756876

>people bitch that something's broken
>people bitch that there's plans to fix it
What do you people even want?

>> No.37756877

When you grapple a creature, is it in the same space as you? Or still only adjacent?

I ask because its kinda important for moving enemies into pits etc. Can you move them off a platform without moving off yourself, or do you have to grapple, then move, then shove?

>> No.37756883

Here's a challenge for /5eg/:

What can we do about rangers? As it stands there is approximately zero reason to be one. Beastmasters are a running joke, fighters get more options than Hunters, and the spellcasting is an afterthought.

>> No.37756917

2 words: Dragon Masters

>> No.37756931

Oh I'm fine with a fix, I just don't trust them not to break it some other direction.

>> No.37756934

MM, shield

>> No.37756937

>Jimmy the Pumpkin King
His name is Jack.

>> No.37756945

>three cuties encamped in close proximity to my vigorous lance each night

>> No.37756961


There aren't very many useful magic items for warlocks, in actuality. Certainly not anywhere near as useful as some of the melee oriented items.

Of course, combat difficulty isn't set in stone. If someone found a way to repeatedly break your combat encounters, you're not making them difficult enough. I'd say the gm has many more ways to unbreak it than the players do to break it.


Beastmasters can now use their pets as mounts.

>> No.37756981

>If people worked with them they could even become civilised, right?

Somebody gonna get raped

>> No.37756982

Do you NEED intimidation? Investigation is the new search/gather info, plus you can use it to see through a few illusions.

>> No.37757002

At the very least they can have defense and utility.

>> No.37757019

Bar full of assassins.

>> No.37757052

If I had to guess, spells are probably going to scale with class levels instead of caster levels.

>> No.37757093


>> No.37757241

> perfectly round establishment with good lighting and no dark corner to lurk in.

>> No.37757261

Give advantage rather than adding 1d10

>> No.37757416

Thanks, any other tips?

My GM IS gonna let me get conjure animals at level 5 so that's cool.

>> No.37757551

I remember that in another thread. The one who feigns stupidity, right?

>> No.37757610

This is D&D. There being silly broken exploits is pretty much a given.

>> No.37757622

The Valve way is also the Brawl Minus way. And the Rule of Cool (as in the indie dev) way.

Do it.

>> No.37757642

Dragon blooded is a sorcerer class option. Char isn't some half dragon super snowflake, just had dragon blood used as a cure to an ailment as a youth. Also used it as the reason my char adventures rather than hides away. Picked up some draconic personality traits. Aggression, love of treasure, and bit of pyro. Also, dm is running dragon based game, so it helps cement me in the plot

>> No.37757651

Intimidation is from the Soldier background.

>> No.37757697

Not so much in this edition though. Worst I've heard is Sorclock.

>> No.37757772

I really like 5E but the one thing I hate about it is memorizing all the fucking different type of spells:

Regular action spells
Bonus action spells
Reaction spells
Concentration spells
[Class feature]-modified spells

Fuck me, this is atrocious.

>> No.37757876

Oh no, learning how the simple-as-fuck action economy applies to spells, whatever shall you do?

>> No.37758080

Oh no, her contacts are slipping off!

>> No.37758093

play a martial?

>> No.37758120

>Implying she isn't smart enough to bring protection in the form of murderhobos

>> No.37758177


>> No.37758221

>Regular action attacks
>Bonus action attacks
>Reaction attacks
>[Class feature]-modified attacks
No martial concentration, at least.

>> No.37758237

It could be actual love.

>> No.37758315

So here's a question: is random generation of magic items optional, or can the DM just select them? Because as of yet, it looks like the pre-printed adventures have VASTLY superior loot to the random DMG loot.

>> No.37758374

Uh, PCs losing their class abilities ended with 3.x as a thing. In 4e and 5e you can't lose your class abilities, PERIOD. At worst, a paladin may be forced to become an oathbreaker or switch classes.

Forcing warlocks to obey their masters or lose their powers is a massive, unintended disadvantage, and is basically a way to punish them for not playing a Cleric of Niceness.

>> No.37758375



DMG has guidelines on page 135 pertaining to the levels you should hand out magic items based on rarity.

>> No.37758399

>he thinks murderhobos wouldn't rape a naive wizard qt

Seriously, m8?

>> No.37758409

Random generation is optional. I like to assign items that my players will use. Random jewels and such is fun for me.

>> No.37758418

Relying on the random generation has absolutely minimal results for magic gear. Should be used in conjunction with intentional magic item rewards.

>> No.37758445

Yup, that one, maybe I should stop whining about it, I'm getting repetitive.

>> No.37758494

Well with our only previous female character the first thing the bard did was try to drug her so you may have a point.

Anyway, I think we're going for a good party this time so they'll only go murderhobo on the orcs.


>> No.37758577

Nah, I like the idea. I was the guy asking for advice on backgrounds for my bard.

>> No.37758696

Looking to make a fighter who plans to be a King, leader-of-men type and all that. What's the best way to make an inspiring fighter? Archetypes and all?

>> No.37758711

Something similar happened in my 5e game, but the bard just tried to overpower her.
She turned into a wolf (moon druid) and bit off his dick.

>> No.37758777

Battle Master or Valor Bard, noble background.

>> No.37758795

What's so special about Battle Master?

>> No.37758828

So even if a dwarf cleric of Moradin goes around stabbing random babies to death, prancing around the forest, hanging out with elves, abstaining from alcohol, and shaving his beard off, he still can't lose favor with his god and thus lose his powers?

>> No.37758843

Ok, cool.

Because as is, it sounds really ghastly. I generated an entire campaign's worth of loot randomly, and it was worse than the lv 1-4 Lost Mine of Pharndeln.

>> No.37758859

He can buff allies in battle with his inspirational presence and coordinate them.

>> No.37758868

It's the closest a Fighter can get to manipulating the battlefield sans actual magic, including a few Maneuvers that are fluffed as giving commands to the rest of the team.

Admittedly the other option would be the Full Attack Every Round Champion or the one-third-caster Eldritch Knight, so it's not as though the Fighter is weighed down with alternatives.

>> No.37758891

Um, Moradin is a god. So he can punish the character by, you know, sending niggers to smite him to death.

Avengers of 4e, and oath of vengeance paladins in 5e, pretty much exist to punish people like that.

The existence of Asmodeus and devils and so forth, and the whole fallen angel mythos, heavily suggests divine power can't be revoked once granted.

>> No.37758904

Ours just got his dick turned into a chicken, bu that was unrelated circumstances.

>> No.37758951

How did your players go in LMoP?
I had considered buffing the monsters in the first cave but Klarg knocked our Ranger out in one blow and then did the same to the Paladin until the wizard burned a hole through his chest

>> No.37758965

How did he like his new cock?

>> No.37759006

Perhaps it can't be revoked, or perhaps those that granted the power hold out hope that one day those who fell will comeback and serve those who gave them power.

Perhaps some of those who retained their powers are so devious they could trick a god, and steal their powers. I mean Zeus' lightning has been stolen before.

>> No.37759277

I haven't run anything yet, still trying to analyze the entire campaign ahead of time. Mainly on account of how the last campaign I generated, the PCs would get 2 snake staves, 1 +1 bow, and a great pile of useless shit.

>> No.37759305

That's true.

Personally, I despise the whole notion of "revoking PCs' powers if they upset the DM's emotions," ESPECIALLY because it just serves to make already horribly unpopular classes more unpopular.

>> No.37759410

After a rather heated fade to black he said "Who's go egg on their face now?"

Yes, I liked your pun :3

>> No.37759419

Obviously they used a sleeper hold instead of magical sleep.

>> No.37759698

I would like to remove powers as a plot point in a game for a session or so, but only if it could be replaced with other powers.
>the wizard stole your stealth rogue, but its still attached to you, and now you are attached to the wizard's magic.
>your paladin's grace was stolen by a great devil, but his rival is willing to grant you a pact to give you the power to kill the thief and take back your grace

>> No.37759799

Got a question for people who understand the math behind the mechanics.

Does 5e have bad HP bloat? I was looking at some of the HP values of high-CR monsters in the Monster Manual and those numbers seem pretty fucking high. Does it balance out, or do fights turn into drawn-out slugfests? Are they SUPPOSED to turn into drawn-out slugfests?

>> No.37759844

Yeah, that's reasonable.

Its just that faggots act like they want to criminalize warlocks and clerics and paladins and such, when you lose pretty much nothing by having a party with fighter, rogue and wizard.

Paladins suffering extreme limits made sense back when they were fighters+.

They are no longer fighters+, therefore they don't deserve the added restrictions.

>> No.37759914

Nopers, the faggots who claim HP bloat are running off the equation of 3e CR = 5e CR.

Seriously, the CR system of 5e and 3e is different. People need to accept that fact.

>> No.37760209

Round one it isn't special because that's spent casting the Hex. Round 2 it does great damage. Round 3 it pulls ahead of most damage specialists, and the target dies. Repeat from round 1.

At character level 5, the monk does 2d8+2d6+16 with a flurry, up to 5 times on a short rest, 15 times a day with two rests a day. That's an average of 32 a round, 96 in 3 rounds, good for 5 encounters in a day.

The sorclock comes online for the first time at level 5, dealing 2d10+2d6+8 twice on the following rounds. That's 26, 52, 26 or 104 in three rounds. The works only against a single target. The sorclock has 3 sorcery points and 10 1st level slots and 2 second level slots with the same rests. It takes a bonus action to restore Sorcery points so it takes one more level to be able to quicken two rounds in a row. This leaves enough to quicken 8 times a day and have one slot left over to cast the Hex which lasts up to an hour. This whole thing works much better at level 6 or 7, honestly.

Anyway, the dps isn't the sole issue. It also blatantly does the warlock's thing of few spell slots, lots of eldritch blasts better than a pure warlock, without fail.

Eldritch Blast becomes a class feature of Warlocks again instead of a Cantrip. This solves a lot of little problems like a few creatures being immune to warlocks-and-only-warlocks. While they're at it, Hunter's Mark and Hex can become class features and not spells requiring concentration too.

>> No.37760488

A medium threat is supposed to last long enough to deal damage (costing hp resource), unless you use limited use resources on it. 2-3 rounds is normal, depending on the kind of threat it is. Some things are death knights and others are dragon turtles.

>> No.37760502

I prefer using the character's patron as a plot point in my games. It involves the player more in the game, and i feel that works best for everyone.

>> No.37760636

Alright, good to know. That's reassuring. Thanks!

>> No.37760841

Ach, right. And I wouldn't trade any of those other skills. Looks good.

>> No.37760872

>philosophical Elf Sorcerer from the royal catacombs who is a recovering cannibal

I think I know why they were in the catacombs. Just sayin'. Obviously Drow.

>> No.37761024

You could always house rule it. In a thread where people are making Final Fantasy races, I don't think "don't blatantly disregard your religion" is so much of a stretch.

>> No.37761417

And we're on page 9. If anyone has anything to start a new thread with, now's a good time.

>> No.37762321

>DM for three friends on Faerun in a custom town
>their first quest is literally to go to a bar and break some windows
>twelve people die, an alchemist shop burns down, a kobold is framed for suicide by shooting himself in the back with a crossbow, and an abusive halfling husband is killed in his home and abducted by our elven mage

Dungeon Masters see some shit.

>> No.37762585

sounds like a blast tho

>> No.37762612


Name (leave empty)
Comment (leave empty)
Password [?]Password used for file deletion.