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/tg/ - Traditional Games

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[ERROR] No.37543935 [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

Elves, /tg/. What do you like and dislike about elves?

>> No.37544031

I dislike it when elves are superior in every.single.way. to humans except that they breed slowly. But its the only logical way said elves wouldnt dominate everything

>> No.37544165

Absolutely hate elves, especially in settings like Elder Scrolls. They live hundreds of years, are naturally the best at magic, have the most advanced civilization in the world, are descended from gods, have the fanciest and most effective armor... ugh. Elves are just an excuse for players to Sue it up or get all angsty with thousand-year lifespans. I very much prefer all-human games.

>> No.37544167


Gotta agree with anon here. Elves that are the greatest at everything are dull.

>> No.37544201


If you categorically /had/ to have elves in a setting for whatever reason, what would you do to make them not suck?

>> No.37544218

Elves are the fucking best. Only whiners and dorfwankers tend to hate them because it's memetastic to hate them.

>> No.37544225


>> No.37544234

I'd probably make them a bunch of savage tribals who's civilization was destroyed by humanity or never allowed to exist in the first place. They'd live in the crappiest parts of the world and be decades behind everyone else. Sorta similar to how Dragon Age handled it, but to an even greater degree.

>> No.37544241

Make them mythologically accurate.

Look up what were pre-Tolkien elves.

>> No.37544252

This. /tg/ hates elves for being 'perfect at everything', but they'll still masturbate to proud, honourable dwarfs who craft the best weapons and armour, are fantastic fighters and still talk shit to your face like a fucking cunt, but it's okay because he's a dwarf.

>> No.37544257

>liking anything about Dragon Age
Why is /tg/ so plebeian when it comes to vidya?

>> No.37544259 [DELETED] 

My elves have fluffy fox ears and fluffy fox tails and are called "kitsune."

>> No.37544283

Don't forget that a dwarf is allowed to use his dorfy stubborness to will pit traps out of existence and is lauded as "hilarious epic winsause!" but if an elf did anything remotely similar it would be dubbed mary sue faggotry

>> No.37544314

i wanna fuck her ears

>> No.37544452

I hate that the only way most fantasy presents "sapient race living in the forests" is either "androgynous fuckboy hippy" or "savage, uncivilized and possibly cannibalistic." If elves are going to be a forest-based species, they should basically be an entire species of rugged lumberjacks, trappers and rangers.

>> No.37544487

What he said. Elves are fucking great. So are dwarves. So are orcs.

Fuck gnomes.

>> No.37544489

>entire species of rugged lumberjacks, trappers and rangers.
Wat, you mean your elves DON'T do those things?

>> No.37544494 [DELETED] 

You i like you

>> No.37544502

Mine do. Too many settings' elves don't.

>> No.37544542

i hate their pointy ears

>> No.37544553

Racial exclusion of certain professions always struck me as dumb. Particularly in a setting where half breeds are playable races. They're no real reason why every races can't have carpenters, smiths, alchemists, enchanters, leather working, hunting/trapping.. No reason at all. I'd really prefer it be a local thing, like people in area X do carpentry and lumber because there is a magical forest that grows quickly there.

>> No.37544562 [DELETED] 

My elves have fluffy fox ears and fluffy fox tails and are called "kitsune."

Dunno why this got deleted last time. This is clearly a foxBOY.

>> No.37544563

>hating elf ears

>> No.37544585

I think it's more a case of "elves are so magically advanced that they just do everything with magic!" which is dumb unless it's a setting where all the major races do that, or elves are the designated crystal spires race instead of the designated forest race.

>> No.37544753

Well, if you go by the D&D 3.5 PHB & MM (high elves, specifically), I like elves. If you go by pretty much anything else, I don't.

I like that they're chaotic good, brown haired/fair skinned/green eyed, 5-5.5ft 100-150lbs, dexterous but not tough, perceptive and strong-willed, and culturally skilled with my favorite weapons. I like that they live in forests and tend to be rangers/rogues/gish. I like how they are semi-nomadic, fear/hate tyrants enough to actually do something about it, typically stay away from other races, are somewhat bohemian, artsy, and aren't the slave bitches of psychopathic lords like most humans. I like their attitude and way of dealing with things. I like the creatures they ally with, I like Corellon, I like Arvandor. I just plain like them.

I don't like that they are portrayed as master swordsmen with virtually no crunch to back it up, likewise with wizardry. If you take their crunch and apply it, you get a race of guerilla scouts, which I think fits them very nicely. They need a crunch boost in 3.5 though; personally I prefer giving them free weapon focus in their racial weapons if they gain those proficiencies from a class, treat courtblades as martial weapons, allow them to ignore a percentage of enemy concealment (I think 20% works), ignore the first range penalty with ranged attacks, and gain a +2 bonus to spellcraft (and woodworking and bowmaking and other elf crafts). That just about does it, I think.

I do like how 4E split them into eladrin and "elves" (wood elves, basically). PF's Azatas are a good name replacement for the outsiders.

>> No.37544788

Oh, addendum: FC's elves are okay too, and probably the most accurately portrayed "elves", but I still prefer 3.5's. I also like that elves are long-lived, but not to the extent they are in 3.5; I would prefer if they lived about 3 times as long as a human, with equivalent age categories.

>> No.37544886

Gish-type elves, who live in big Rivendell-type houses, or towers, or stuff like that. One or two cities are cool too if there are enough elves, but for /tg/ purposes I generally prefer the city of the elves to be a ruin PCs can explore.

Flying/phasing castles Elfquest-style are cool too.

Wood elves. A whole race of Robin Hoods or forest indians makes me very tired, and players who want to be Legolas make me even more tired.

>> No.37545035



>> No.37545052

What I like about elves?
Their longevity and their easygoing view on life.
the latterm is also what rustle my jimmies.
If I were an elf I would still spend 8-9 hours a day studying and training and still had time for friends and frolicking.
I wake up at 5 am and arrive in the university at 6am and studo until noon, where I take a hearty nap and then continue with a coffee where I before until 5pm.
This still leaves me with plenty of free time to prevent a burnout.
I workout, go partying in the weekend or spend time with my family.
I am sure an elf with that work ethic would blow the rest of it's kin out of the water and even make the elder uneasy at how much they can achieve in a short time while still having fun.

>> No.37545985


I like that they're pretty, graceful, and immortal. Old fucks think and behave differently than young bucks, and would be even more different with a few centuries and no expectation of dying naturally.

Actually, think about that. If an Elf is going to die, what eventually will get them is either accident or violence. You're going to aim for a very low risk lifestyle.

What I hate are the mary sue hippy types who graft onto elves all kinds of other traits, especially moral superiority. I realize that this goes back to Tolkien, who used them as a proxy for his own (christian) brand of moral superiority, but there you go.

I don't like "Elves are passionate!" It's an excuse by landwhale romance novel addicts to go over the top with their community theater theatrics. Yuck. Take an old person and subtract angst about everyone dying around them and their own mortality, and you have someone who is anything BUT a 13-yr-old emotionally.

>> No.37546030

Elves are okay. I never used to enjoy them that much, but after spending some time developing their culture in a worldbuilding exercise of mine I've actually started to like them. In my setting they live roughly twice as long as humans, have a strong connection to magic, and have a thriving open economy exporting all things magical. They're not quite as strong as humans, and they're not fond of the wilderness. They typically live in or near forests, which is more by coincidence than choice, and their cities are massive metropolises which are built around exposed spires of a magical ore on the surface. While the ore does have uses, they're left unexploited by the elves who see them more as important religious and cultural sites.

So I guess I like them like that. Agile in mind and body, socially competent and innately magically, but not immortal or too physically capable and perfectly aware that being an arrogant, antisocial bastard is a good way to make enemies. I much prefer spire/high elves to wood elves.


This does bother me, actually. Elves live for an extremely long time, and yet most settings have the elves surprised that their shorter lived human counterparts can have as full a life as they can despite only living for a fraction of the time. What exactly are the elves doing for all those hundreds of years? I just like to imagine they're all compulsive liars and spend most of their time napping or visiting tea houses, but then claiming to their companions after asking where the went that they spent that time researching powerful, forbidden arcane magics.

>> No.37546280

Yeah, elf should breed fast

>> No.37546291

Yeah, I always thought it was weird that elves don't just get bored. Having lots of time ahead of you doesn't mean your time means less. It doesn't mean you have a special immunity to boredom.

If I was immortal, I wouldn't do less stuff. I'd be free to do MORE stuff, content in the knowledge that I have tons of time to find my way in life.

>> No.37546306

The setting I'm playing in kinda does this.

Or rather, it has them breed normally, which means they have a massive population due to their longevity and resistance to disease. The result is that they're explorers and adventurers almost by necessity - there's a massive cultural emphasis on standing out, being exceptional, and discovering new lands.

>> No.37546313

It's even stranger when you realise that, in most settings, they don't sleep. That's at least another six hours a day they have to do things.

>> No.37546317

Gnomes a shit.

>> No.37546322

>Immunity to magical sleep, charm, and ghoul paralysis
>Ability to fight simultaneously as a fighter and as a magic-user, and cast spells even while wearing armor

>While balanced for long-term campaigns via level limits and slower XP advancement, they are not balanced for short-term campaigns or one-shots
>Either people role-play them is annoying as hell or they don't roleplay them any differently from humans.

>> No.37546353

cool stuff, but honestly, I was just making a sex joke.

>> No.37546426

Hmmm... How can I fix elves? They need some drawbacks. I've got it!

Elves are immune to magical sleep. When they do sleep they only require one hour and they remain fully aware of their surroundings during that time.
The downside of this is that elves cannot sleep unless they succeed a saving throw vs. spells or use specialized drugs. Elves still require sleep in order to heal and prepare spells.

>> No.37546528


>> No.37546743

I rationalise elves' slowness at doing stuff firstly as a side effect of their physiology, and secondly as an effect of their culture.

Physiologically it stems from their extremely capable senses and excellent motor control - elves are fit, dexterous, agile and keen-eyed - practically they have near-perfect coordination and mastery over their bodies, which they then try and apply to everything else they do. They can't be content with merely being "good enough" at anything, they have to know it and master it totally.

An elf learning maths, for example, would master addition, subtraction, division and multiplication before moving on to even the most basic algebra.
A human meanwhile wouldn't give two shits about being able to multiply sets of four digit numbers together.

It means that for a human to be good at something they don't have to be as obsessive as an elf would to reach the same level - they'll take shortcuts, accept principles on face value etc., but the end result will be the same.

It also explains some of their arrogance - to them other races seem clumsy and unskilled. Like humans would see a toddler. The rest of it is them just being dicks though.

Perfectionism is the hallmark of elves - it's why they take so long to do anything, because they will only do it perfectly. Which takes ages, but hey, they have the time. But perfection is stressful, and that brings us to elven society.

Being perfectionists, and being seen to be perfect.
Elven society is all about maintaining appearances and meeting expectations. You are free to do whatever you want, within reason, but peer pressure and cliquishness is ridiculously overpowering, and image is everything. Keeping up with the Finwes is all important - have you been seen at the right parties, have you read the poetry that's in vogue at the moment, are you wearing this season's clothes?
And while doing all that you must stay perfect at your chosen profession, because perfectionism is the done thing.

>> No.37547962

The alien mindset of such a long lived race
The nature of their existence as beings of chaos
The fact they feel a lot like if big businessmen/CEOs were forced to think longterm by virtue of their lifespan but still are quite clearly loose in their definitions of good and proper behaviour

Stupidly huge ears seen in some settings
Mechanics that don't back up their nature (though I am not a fan of forced balance in general)
When they are shown as stupidly ineffective as a race yet proud of the fact

>> No.37548221


The consistent portrayal of the race as unironically superior jackasses kind of grinds my gears. Superior culture, craft, and a disdainful treatment of everyone beneath them coupled with no actual advantages to back up those claims of superiority (in 3.X at least) and not enough disillusionment with that incorrect cultural mentality, makes them come across as boorish, foppish, psycopathic nitwits.

Of course, that's only if your DM tries to blend DND elves with Tolkien elves, but it happens often with newer DMs. They take the most obvious means of characterizing the race in existing fiction and don't bother to do further character research or culture building.

Thing is, most of the classical stereotypes associated with elves don't lend them to effective use in active storytelling where they are abundantly represented as a character option among the "inferior" races. Something has to give between the ancient beings whose anger could throw down gods at its height and the guy whose in your party, scraping for coin, failing stealth checks, and missing shots of his bow like everyone else.

>> No.37548356

What I like is when they're treated as having a range of variation among themselves, the same as any other species would.

What I hate is when they're treated as a series of cardboard cutouts taken from the same boring stock, regardless of whether that stock is a common depiction of the species or some DM's attempt to make their elves "unique". Same as I'd hate any other species being presented as such.

Don't actually know what the pic I chose is, clicked randomly in my "elves" folder. Could be brown, could be pale, could be blue.

>> No.37549988


Pretty decent picture. I shall steal this to add to my own collection of character art.

>> No.37550036


>What I like is when they're treated as having a range of variation among themselves, the same as any other species would.
>What I hate is when they're treated as a series of cardboard cutouts taken from the same boring stock

Fucking yes. It pisses me off so hard that elves (and dwarves for that matter) have no variation to them at all.

>> No.37550214

It's okay anon. The elves can't hurt you now.

>> No.37550288

>no variation
That's rich. An elf is just as likely to be a fungus based orangutan that talks via changing the color of its eyes as it is to be a pompous, pointy eared immortals.

Dwarves are always dwarves, though, you got that right.

>> No.37550306

>I don't even know this guy.jpg

>> No.37550370


I meant in whatever setting they're in - they're usually always cardboard cutouts of a concept, and have no personal variation amongst themselves.

>> No.37550416

This true of every fantasy setting, be it humans, dwarves, or elves. Humans have a little more variation from sheer volume, but they still fall into neat little categories of Not!Vikings, Not!Arabics, Not!Europeans, and so on.

>> No.37550770


Oh, absoultely, but in my experience, other races don't even get that much attention

>> No.37550795

That's because they're typically relegated to specific biomes whereas humans are used as literal filler spread between all these biomes.

>> No.37550817


And therein is the root of one my issues with how other races are usually portrayed.

>> No.37550855

I dislike "in-decline" elves.

I want my magic focused, overconfident, and aloof race to be a major player, whilst making bad decisions just as much as the humans do even though they're convinced they make less mistakes.

>> No.37550858

Yes, but to blame elves for it is pretty silly since one-note elves are the symptom, not the cause.

It's like blaming your lungs for getting cancer rather than trying to treat the tumorous lump attached to them.

>> No.37550876


Sorry, I'm not blaming them at all - I am blaming poor design.

>> No.37550893

I did like the early take on Blood Elves, a people dealing with tremendous loss of life and immortality. Bit like if the fourth crusade had sacked ye elven capital and then raised most of them as zombies. Wouldn't have hurt to have a few successor states duking it out.

>> No.37550911


Pretty much a more succinct explanation than I offered in an earlier post. When all elves come across as the same, cheap copy of a terrible personality archetype, of course elves would be considered terrible.

>> No.37551351

I like elves that are fey-like in nature and very sylvan, territorial, whimsical, with a much stronger capacity to experience emotions, allowing them to attain transcendent bliss and/or soul-crushing despair.

Such elves would enjoy lives of rich sensation and wonder, creating and cultivating the most marvelous and superb works of art, literature, poetry, song and magic. They also have a completely alien moral compass and can be seen by other races as a mysterious, unpredictable and dangerous force of nature.

I dislike generic mary sues, vanilla elves. They sound more like completely dull and uninteresting humans with pointy ears. I'm also not a fan of retarded anime elves that are just rapebait with donkey ears.

>> No.37552652


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