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36653466 No.36653466 [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

>Exalted, what is that?
Read this article to get a hang of the setting. http://theonyxpath.com/exalted/

>That sounds cool, how can I get into it?
Play this tutorial: http://jyenicolson.net/exalted/. It'll get you familiar with most of the mechanics.

>Gosh that was fun. How do I find a group?
Pray. But seriously, Roll20 and the Game Finder General here on /tg/ are both places where games could be found. Still, they tend to be rare since no one wants to ST.

>Wow, this book is confusing as hell. How the fuck am I supposed to generate a character from this mess?
Anathema. http://anathema.github.io/. This is a godly character generator. It has all the charms in nice little skill-trees, a soothing sight for anyone who's ever played an RPG before. It also does all of the math for you, making it very easy to experiment with builds and create character sheets easily

Resources:
>Corebook with embedded errata http://www.mediafire.com/view/iyo790a3sjw1pzc/_Exalted_2e_Core.pdf
>The entire 2e in total, with embedded errata in most: https://www.mediafire.com/folder/253ulzik1j9s5/Exalted
>Fanmade crossbook indexes: http://www.4shared.com/office/_Ke_MsnJba/_exalted_indices.html (also in the above folder)
>Bookmarked 3E Alpha Leak https://mega.co.nz/#!UlRiEbRR!FaeCdqa3hsHn-iyhHtD-IBjgH_8Ks30Wtu6rDL9_mrE
>Some mechanics reference sheets: social https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/53927438/CheatSheetSocial_0-5.pdf combat https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/53927438/CheatSheetCombat_0-7.pdf
>Infernal Bandaid: http://forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/main-category/exalted/124885-how-to-put-a-band-aid-on-infernals/page2#post128384

>> No.36653491

>>36653466

>Exalted 3rd Edition core book- From Holden: “Lea finished. The book is out of editing and back in my hands. I’m going through, reviewing Lea’s edits and implementing them into the master draft. This process is finished for the Introduction and Chapter One, am on Chapter Two right now. Holy shit. Three years. This beast is finally about to be out of our hands at last.” (Exalted 3rd Edition)

So what's up guys? Are you hyped yet?

>> No.36653639

>>36653491
Not JUST yet, but it's getting there. I probably won't be in full hype mode 'til the art is done and layout is nearing completion.

>> No.36653756

Never before have i been so excited to be disappointed

>> No.36653757
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36653757

Tell me, who is stronger? The one who attempts a task and succeeds immediately or the one who fails a hundred times and overcomes that failure, strengthening themselves through it?

>> No.36653829

>>36653757

The winner. Everything else is irrelevant hot air (if you won) or whinging (if you lost).

>> No.36653851

>>36653757
Is it the same task?

>> No.36654009

>>36653757
Depends. A lot of coaches in a lot of sports will say that all performance metrics being equal, they'll take a player with shitty form over one with perfect form because the shitty one has more room to improve.

However, what you're describing is not that. Your scenario doesn't describe what advantages the first one has over the second, and you do not define what you mean by "stronger".

Sure, the person who tries and fails a hundred times but keeps at it is worthy of respect for their dedication to their eventual success, but your scenario doesn't eliminate the possibility that the person that gets it in one go has every bit as much dedication. They simply haven't had to prove it in this one case.

>> No.36654164
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36654164

>>36653491

I get hyped every time I read the leak, honestly.

I'm feeling festive and a bit curious, so I'm going to ask here. How would you stat Santa Claus? Seriously. I was thinking that he might be an Elder Chosen Sidereal of either Journeys or Serenity, for traveling around the world and spreading joy through presents. The elves would be Followers working in a Celestial Manse, that's easy. He'd probably have 4 or 5 dots in Cult. Would the sleigh be an Artefact or something made by Sorcery? What else could he have, and more importantly, what MA Styles has he mastered? I found a thematic SMA but it's homebrew.

http://forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/main-category/exalted/326364-snow-white-tidings-of-comfort-style-sma

Are there any good canon styles he could know? Could he be something other than a Sidereal or even an Exalt? Help me out.

>> No.36654209

>>36654164
The sleigh could be a higher-tier version of that one blue cloud chariot from TCS.

>> No.36654235

>>36654164
Also, it's a lot easier to stat him up as a god of a holiday and give him Hurry Home (anywhere on Christmas Eve night) plus a panoply.

>> No.36654257

>>36654209

Yeah, there's on for every tier. I'm not big on getting him exactly, just trying to capture the spirit. Sidereals can have Dragon Familiars they can ride?

>> No.36654329

>>36653756
What are you disappointed about?

>> No.36654786

>>36654329
Oh i'm not YET i just expect to be

>> No.36654869
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36654869

Things that are bad in 2e that will probably be in 3e still

>> No.36654959

>>36654869

I imagine "sit in your tower and masturbate for X months" will still be the fundamental shape of the crafting system.

I bet Charisma and Manipulation will still be virtually indistinguishable from one another to the point that a character can safely go 5/1 and literally never run into a social attack they can't make.

I bet mutations and animal stats will still exist separately from one another for no real reason.

On the same note, I bet their handling of "very huge things bigger than a Tyrant Lizard" will still be unsatisfying.

>> No.36654987

>>36654959
>X months
For anyone who's not a Solar probably.

>Charisma and Manipulation
This has always been a problem in WW games

>> No.36655017

>>36654959
>I bet Charisma and Manipulation will still be virtually indistinguishable from one another to the point that a character can safely go 5/1 and literally never run into a social attack they can't make.
It probably will be but it really doesn't need to be. A good system would be use charisma for the whole "establish/damage intimacies" chunk of social combat and then manipulation for the "play with those intimacies to actually get results" chunks. So a Charismatic individual is good at making others FEEL things while a manipulative individual is good at making others DO things. Means they both COMPLIMENT each other but also that there can still be value in only having one if you're so inclined.

>> No.36655044

>>36655017
That's probably what I would do, if I wanted to make a quick and dirty fix, yeah. Not perfect, but quick.

>>36654987
Even for Solars, who get to make it "X days" or whatever, the fundamental shape of the crafting system is still boring.

>> No.36655052

>>36655044
>Even for Solars, who get to make it "X days" or whatever, the fundamental shape of the crafting system is still boring.
That sounds like an ST problem since I use my crafting charms for hilarious results

>> No.36655059

>>36655017
Also for crafting I'm curious how well I'll be able to hack it into a "use crafting to jury rig stuff that only lasts for one adventure" system (with the "proper" crafting system still existing of course.) I mean that's one of the first things I'm going to start working on regardless, I just want to know how MUCH work i'll need to do.

>> No.36655062

>has known how to play exalted since 2e came out more or less
>still hasn't been able to play it thanks to lack of interest on one hand and lack of experience in running the theme on the other
>now 3e is almost out

well, shit

>> No.36655125

>>36655052

You misunderstand. WHAT you craft can be as interesting as possible, it doesn't change that the ACT of crafting is "sit in place and masturbate furiously for a period of time."

I'd vastly prefer if "crafting" took the form of something active, that required you to be out in the world doing things.

>> No.36655146

>>36655125
>I'd vastly prefer if "crafting" took the form of something active, that required you to be out in the world doing things.
You mean getting exotic materials? Cause that's what you're suppose to do.

Shit like Artifacts 1-3 you can use spare limbs from your Lunar mate and other parts of your circle, but Artifact 4 and 5's are suppose to be you getting the tooth of a Greater Element Dragon's tooth, or the blood of an Essence 8 God.

>> No.36655156

>>36655062
At least if my experience is any indication, running 3E is also a lot easier.

Fuck the tick system.

>> No.36655169

>>36655125

>what do you mean you can't "bring the forge with you," smith? i'm not gonna wait here for you to forge that sword, friend

i think it's more to limit wondrous item amounts in the game for balance. Wanna make a fucking incredible super-damn-good trinket? Cool, but you'll get it inbetween adventures or something when you got time to chill and work on it,since being able to make one every afternoon would kind of become insane after a while.

>> No.36655192

>>36655146
>You mean getting exotic materials?

No, that happens prior to crafting and doesn't make the act of crafting in of itself even one iota more interesting.

I mean something more like "the crafter takes his unfinished works into the world, and can make use of Experimental Versions of the finished work; with successful/catastrophic experimental uses providing the craft progress."

>> No.36655221

>>36655192
That's most definitely an ST thing you have going there since you're not suppose to build as prototype as an Exalted, you plan it out and then build it.

>> No.36655235

>>36655169
That's why personally I want to do >>36655062 where crafting can be useful for hacking together the PERFECT item for a given situation but it's only temporary, so crafting actually gets used during the course of adventures and shit.

>> No.36655259

>>36655235
SECOND LINK IS SUPPOSED TO BE TO >>36655059

>> No.36655263

>>36655221
>since you're not suppose to build as prototype as an Exalted, you plan it out and then build it.

Yes, and that's my entire objection.

That's a FUCKING BORING way to do it! It results in "masturbate in one spot for months at a time and then ta-da the finished work."

There's no sense of palpable progress, just numbers going up until my craft-bar tells me I have a sword. I don't feel like a crafter, I feel like I'm masturbating.

>> No.36655302

>>36655263
>There's no sense of palpable progress, just numbers going up until my craft-bar tells me I have a sword. I don't feel like a crafter, I feel like I'm masturbating.
You realize that sword fighting in Exalted is literally the same exact thing right? Along with literally anything.

If you have a half finished item, ASK THE ST IF YOU CAN JURY RIG IT. That seems once again, like you're not being creative with play and/or have an ST problem. If your character's build prototypes that are half built during an adventure, ask if you can try it out for hilariously awesome results.

>> No.36655330

>>36655302
>almost 2014
>if the ST can fix it it's not a problem!
Really guys?

>> No.36655368

>>36655330
You realize that the rules for a game can't possibly cover everything. There's a reason why it's mentioned in the damn rulebook.

And if you don't understand that, you deserve to never play a game.

>> No.36655371

>>36655302
>You realize that sword fighting in Exalted is literally the same exact thing right?

No. It's qualitatively different. Only in the most broad, bordering-on-facetious interpretation is combat "watching a number go up until your enemy is dead," while crafting is literally that at its mechanical core, on purpose and by design.

>If your character's build prototypes that are half built during an adventure, ask if you can try it out for hilariously awesome results.
When the alternative is 'lock yourself in your tower and jerk off through a fast-forward,' who would ever say no?

And when one option is intrinsically more boring than another option, a good system's job is to cut out the boring option. Period.

>> No.36655403

>>36655368
>it's okay if I write shitty rules when I could be writing good ones in their place, because you can't fit rules for everything
Is this even supposed to make sense?

>> No.36655405

>>36655368
Not that guy, but the rules DO cover crafting and they suck. That's the issue. Perhaps an analogy might help. Picture a game whose combat system is nothing but swordfighting. Someone wants to use maces or bows to fight, and suggests this on a forum. People act like ST fiat means that limiting combat to swords only isn't objectively shit.

>> No.36655443

>>36655371
Even the "lock yourself in a tower and fast forward" could approach being palatable if crafting had any sense of being part of a "game" to it instead of just a series of rolls. Like, I don't know, a different points bad rolls can give a result of "well it's turning out the material's you've grabbed are REALLY more suited to a slightly different project then what you're working on, you can turn this failure into a success by switching it over." Suddenly crafting is a minigame with choices that affect the outcome, just like combat is.

>> No.36655474

>>36655405
>Not that guy, but the rules DO cover crafting and they suck. That's the issue. Perhaps an analogy might help. Picture a game whose combat system is nothing but swordfighting. Someone wants to use maces or bows to fight, and suggests this on a forum. People act like ST fiat means that limiting combat to swords only isn't objectively shit.
That's a terrible damn analogy. You're assuming crafting is strictly linear in use and you can't do anything but one thing with it when you can do butt load of shit to make it interesting.

There's rules for making crafting not suck in Oadenol's Codex for a reason. If your ST is saying to just sit and fap while you roll, then that's his choice. Artifacts are suppose to be earned.

>> No.36655498

>>36655474
Crafting should not suck by default.

>> No.36655576

>>36655474
>You're assuming crafting is strictly linear in use

It... is. Pre-crafting things are open-ended, and the RESULT of your crafting is also open-ended, but the craft system itself is 100% linear by design, featuring zero elements to it that could even be called a game.

>There's rules for making crafting not suck in Oadenol's Codex for a reason
Uh, no. For one, there's absolutely no reason, ever, to have a less-interesting system plopped down when a more-interesting version exists.

For two, you're fucking delusional if you think OldMcDonald's did anything to make crafting at all interesting.

>If your ST is saying to just sit and fap while you roll, then that's his choice. Artifacts are suppose to be earned.
Frankly? No, it's not. No ST has the right to say "do something boring and potent, or do something exciting and less potent." No GAME has the right to say that.

If the ST wants me to "earn" something, he'd damn well better make earning it exciting, just like the system should bend over like a house-nigger to help him make it as exciting as possible.

The notion of "earning" something in an RPG by enduring something boring is a fucking joke. You're not even playing a game at that point, because it is against the nature of a game to be boring and unengaging.

>> No.36655598

>>36655498
And it's not if you use the book devoted to fucking crafted.

If you expect everything to be extremely well done in a 400 page rulebook where 100 pages are devoted to just the damn powers the characters can have, 150 to the majority of enemies you'll encounter, and 50 to setting you are autistic.

Like literally everything on this board everything is only as good as the Storyteller is. If you don't like the system, feel free to make your own version and let everyone else

>> No.36655641

>>36655598
If it needs a separate book to not suck it shouldn't be in the default book AT ALL.

>> No.36655645

>>36654959
If you've been following dev comments at all, you'd know that none of these are going to happen.

>> No.36655657

>>36655576
>Everything needs to be unique and exciting and interesting

Good to know you know nothing of what being a craftsman/engineer/smith/what have you is actually like cause you literally plop down and crunch numbers or work on shit until you finish your job.

If you're expecting some Video Game tier level shit where you're getting shot at while crafting some hammer of ultimate doom, then you really are a terrible player.

>> No.36655671

>>36655657
>b-but muh realism!

We're talking about fucking Exalted, dude. Get the fuck over it.

>> No.36655680

>>36655657
Good to know you suck at knowing what a game is for.

It's entertainment, anon.

>> No.36655694

>>36655645
Every single artifact IS suppose to be the result of a unique and interesting process though, they're straight up made changes to anything that gave indications that wasn't the case, like there not being 1 dot artifacts anymore

>> No.36655731

>>36655125
Since crafting has it's very own system just for it, I think it's safe to say it's interesting.

>> No.36655758

>>36655694
What at all does that have to do with the aforementioned post?

>> No.36655779

>>36655731

The system in the leak? No, it doesn't do the job.

A lot of things to make the events prior to crafting and the events after crafting more interesting, which I do praise, but the actual act of crafting is still "roll dice until the number gets big enough."

The final version might be more interesting, which I hope for, but I'm still writing my own version on the side so it'll be ready to implement right away.

>> No.36655802

>>36655694
>Every single artifact IS suppose to be the result of a unique and interesting process though
>Have factories that pump them out like clockwork
>Get huge reductions in crafting for using blueprints and similar artifacts

How are they ALL suppose to be unique? I can understand custom ones, but some of them were literally things like radios and magic clothing.

>> No.36655815

>>36655802
I didn't say it was a COHERENT desire

>> No.36655827

>>36655815
If we're throwing logic out the window, can we get some Sidereals in here at least?

>> No.36655835

>>36655802
They're getting rid of the more mundane artifacts.

>> No.36655843

>>36655802
One-dot artifacts like those aren't a thing anymore, iirc. They're the result of thaumaturgy or just high-resources purchases.

>> No.36655850

>>36655835
Thank gods because I never understood how you could make a mundane item with magitech.

>> No.36655877

>>36654959
>I imagine "sit in your tower and masturbate for X months" will still be the fundamental shape of the crafting system.

Dude, the leak has a charm where you can shit out lesser wonders as you walk around with your buddies.

>> No.36655905

>>36655641
No, this is not how making a system works.

>> No.36655934

>>36655905
If it's important enough to be in the core book at all, it's important enough that it needs to be GOOD. If it's not important enough to be good, than it's not important enough to be in the core book.

>> No.36655945

>>36655877

Yes. Which is great! ...for people who have that Charm.

Charms should not ever be something you get to make part of the system less excruciating to use.

>>36655905
Yes, it is. If you can't do something right with the space offered, don't do it at all. Trying to cram in "meh" rules because the designers don't trust the STs to handle it until they have the space to do good rules is how we end up with so many piece of shit systems.

>> No.36655993

>>36655934
Dude, crafting isn't even in the rules for DnD's CRB. It's in the DM guide. They put it in the CRB so you can use it without a splat book until the splat book comes out to expand on it.

It's literally a place holder. Would you rather have a bunch of crafting charms for 3e and no rules at all as a newbie ST, or some basic as fuck rules. I'll take the basic as fuck rules any day over no rules.

>> No.36656009

>>36655945
>>Yes. Which is great! ...for people who have that Charm.
>Charms should not ever be something you get to make part of the system less excruciating to use.

You're one of those guys that think a DB should be as good as a Solar aren't you? Because a mortal shouldn't be able to shit out magitech items like clockwork. Neither should a charmless Exalt.

>> No.36656054

>>36655934
>>36655945
I disagree. I think it's important to have a framework in place, but it's okay if it's a bit flat and unfilled and just purely functional until, say, the crafting splat comes out (which is like, the 2nd or 3rd book). There's no reason it should be BAD, but it's reasonable to put something that's merely okay, because you just don't have the room to expand on it.

You disagree on this, fine. Whatever. Ban crafting in your games if you want, but the core book should include the full fucking game, even if some of it is a little barebones. "Twilights are totally great at crafting, like, this is one of the things they're totally known for, and here's the Craft charms, but Crafting isn't actually in this book!" is unacceptable.

>> No.36656097

>>36656009

Nobody in the entire thread has advocated for shitting out artifacts "like clockwork" or for Solar/DB parity or whatever other concept you're conflating with the two statements "a craft system should be actually fun to use, whether Charms are involved or not" and "Charms should not be band-aids for shitty parts of the system."

I will happily spend a literal thousand years in-game forging a daiklave if the act of doing so is interesting and interactive and fun.

>> No.36656192

>>36655443
This entire post is covered in the point of rolling. If you botch the roll, something bad happened.

>Suddenly crafting is a minigame with choices that affect the outcome, just like combat is.
This is terrible after the 50th damn time I make an artifact. I'd probably go insane if I have to play a minigame to design an artifact. I work on mechanical systems for a living, I don't wan to have to do my fucking job for a game if I don't have to.

Fuck you, I'll stick to my charts and basic math for artifacts. If I want to design some Arrow of Annihilation I don't expect me to devote 500 hours OOC for IC shit, so don't expect me to play a shitty minigame where I have to do anything other than add, multiple and roll dice.

It's annoying and tedious when the roll is suppose to cover the randomness that happens when building something.

>> No.36656332

>>36656192
If you just wanted to power through and produce a thing it'd be indistinguishable, your failures mean it goes slower like they already do and at the end you get the artifact you want. It's just a half-formed idea of a possible system to make crafting "interesting and interactive"

>> No.36656723

>>36655779
The leak is no longer valid anymore, it hasn't been for a while.

>> No.36656807

>>36656192

You know the way you want it was exactly the boring shit they had before. These changes are for the better. If you don't like them, then don't use them. The book is a toolkit, not a coda.

>50th damn time I make an artifact

There's your issue. You're unlikely to find mass production of artifacts in Exalted anymore. If there is, you need the infrastructure to support it, and that's where story comes in.

>> No.36656857

>>36656332

when i used to play with my brothers the ST would have a system in place where making items "worthy" would mean having to break them in and unlocking their potential. I should ask about the rules he put behind that, but basically you had to draw specific kinds of enemies' blood for sword power-ups, for example. Charms would need the components of something legendary as a magic source, etc etc.

And because one of my friends loved crafting items in games, the ST would always try to incorporate his own notes on "what I have to kill for my sweet loot upgrades" with the campaign. A tear of laughter from an earth dragon? Shit, we're kind of already fighting this one, it's time to act embarrassingly bad at combat in hopes he'll have a laugh at our expense, or at least try to get back on his good side with appeals to his sensibilities.

His item-loving fuckery made the game a lot more fun than it would've been, because he essentially added challenges to the occasional fight that were fun in how the ST set up the scenarios to make us figure out the best possibilities.

>> No.36657055

>>36653757
The Primordials themselves would disagree on this.
Malfeas would argue the first, and Qaf the second.

>> No.36657101

>>36654164
I'd probably stat him up as a God rather than an exalt. Maybe even a Fae.

>> No.36657190

>>36653491
I'm not going to get hyped, because I will be vastly disappointed when it does not live up to my hype.

>> No.36657219

>>36657190
With that attitude, yeah.

>> No.36657637

>>36657190
What did you think about the playtest leak?

>> No.36657705

>>36656097

> or for Solar/DB parity

Well, I did last thread but that's not related to this argument. And it was more 'PC Solar/PC DB Parity' than NPCs.

>> No.36657752

>>36656723
Actually, the third part of the leak, which contains Craft, wasn't never really valid. It was litterally just added in the playtest when the leak happened, so it was bound to mutate heavily in any case.

What I'm getting at is that although one might read, say, the combat section of the leak and get a good sense of what the final product will be, that's not a thing you could do with Craft.

>> No.36657906

>>36657101
Raksha Klaus with his manikins crafting gossamer presents for everyone. Heck, it'd be possible to make an Oneiromantic spell that can be cast on various kingdoms and whenever someone who has been nice sends a letter to Santa it creates the item with Ordinary Object Conjuration. Lasts one hundred year per casting.

>> No.36657955

>>36657705
>And it was more 'PC Solar/PC DB Parity' than NPCs.
I can see that being good, yeah. The problem comes in when trying to figure out what that would look like in a way that maintains setting conventions (in this case, DBs being individually weaker than Solars but powerful in large numbers) yet doesn't require a disproportionate degree of system mastery on the part of the DB or extra attention on the part of the GM regarding the DB's sheet.

I mean, it's fairly well-established that a middling-essence DB with a few centuries worth of experience under their belt can hang with a group of Solars provided those Solars are Essence 4 or lower, and a particularly aged and experienced DB could even hold their own in a circle with Essence 5 Solars. This isn't a point of contention. The problem is that doing all of that means having a TON more XP than the Solars, and that'll all be put into upping their Essence and picking up a shitton of charms. It also means giving up a large chunk of the great equalizer that DBs can have when they're not running with anathema: Realm backing. Not to mention that much of the DB charm set is about buffing their allies, which makes it much trickier to build an independently strong character than other splat... and yet, this is also inextricably tied to the setting's metaphysics.

So ordinary DBs really CAN'T work on even footing with Celestial exalts without doing extensive rewrites of the setting.

>> No.36657964

>>36657955
>So ordinary DBs really CAN'T work on even footing with Celestial exalts without doing extensive rewrites of the setting.

Good thing that's what's happening in 3e.

>> No.36657994

>>36657955
But then, what if "ordinary DBs" weren't all there was to the terrestrial exaltation?

What if there were Individual sparks that came together packing far more of a punch than originally intended?

Give them more essence in their pools, perhaps a better set of excellencies. Let them count as being every element for purposes of charms and martial arts (although they would still have to pick one element for their favored abilities), along with a more broadly destructive anima flare. Have them grow into higher tiers of essence far faster than ordinary dragonblooded, making them politically inconvenient when they exalt in the Realm and an outright menace elsewhere, making such exaltations an ill omen and creating lots of incentive for such exalts to be pushed into adventuring elsewhere, making problems for other people. Let them have access to Celestial sorcery and martial arts with an easy-to-get charm purchase.

End result is you have something that is still very much a Dragonblood, but one that is able to hang with Celestials without any real issues. And if this is something that's known to happen in-setting, then you also establish that it's not just the player character working under different rules than NPCs.

>> No.36658031

>>36657955

The general idea I was running with 'Given equal essence and exp tossed into something, PCs will be roughly equal at it. Maybe not in the same WAYS but both will be comparable'.

However, non-PC DB gain essence/exp much, much slower than PCs. Which is a general assumption with basically every splat but even moreso in the case of DB. So a DB with the 'PC Spark' can achieve in years what another DB could achieve in centuries.

You are not playing a normal DB Soldier. If you are a PC, you are someone with the sort of potential to be Mnemon or the Scarlet Empress. Just like how a Solar PC isn't the guy who gets shanked by Sid within a day of exalting.

>> No.36658057

>>36657994

Dragon "Lords" and all variants on them just piss me off more than anything else, since they continue that shithead meme that Dragon-Bloods aren't "real" Exalts, or they're "incomplete" ones or whatever.

I'd rather just say "Whatever Essence the highest Solaroid the group is at, the Dragon-Blood player gets to command half that many Dragon-Bloods, wholly and completely." and let their teamwork into play without having to babysit X NPCs all the damn time.

>> No.36658078

>>36657964
If you throw out the notion that dragonblooded need overwhelming numbers, careful planning, coordination, and superior backing to operate on the same level as celestial exalts, then the entire First Age doesn't make sense. Solars et al get their shit pushed in pretty much immediately after the Primordial War and Sidereals instead spend the entire post-Primordial War history of Creation trying to hold things together in a world where even the lowliest town guards and street thugs are probably capable of ripping yeddim in half with their bare hands.

There are some rewrites that preserve or even reinforce the whole while changing individual parts. What you're asking for is the kind of rewrite that would pretty much turn Creation - and Exalted in general - into something completely unrecognizable, and makes me wonder if you like the setting at all.

>> No.36658088

>>36658078
the first age does not need to "make sense" from a mechanical standpoint. the game does not need to mechanically support the usurpation.

>> No.36658151

>>36658031

Clarification: The idea is that people are 'Roughly equal' doesn't mean they all do it exactly the same.

Solars are the best at applying skill to a situation, natural human ability turned up to 11
Lunars are the best at applying raw power to a situation, inhuman genius and crushing charisma as much as physical power.
Sids come at everything sideways, having things work for them in a strange way that comes from a weird but working view of realities inner workings.
Dragonblooded are the best team workers. While far from bad at doing things solo, a Dragonblooded is utterly fantastic in a group even if that group is non-Dragonblooded exalts. He supports people like a D&D 4e Warlord, the grease that makes a group much more than the sum of it's parts.

>> No.36658207

>>36658151
>Dragonblooded are the best team workers. While far from bad at doing things solo, a Dragonblooded is utterly fantastic in a group even if that group is non-Dragonblooded exalts.
That actually gives an easy way to adapt DB to multisplat parties, make a dragonblood working with a celestial LITERALLY better than a dragonblood working with another dragonblood, and a dragonblood working with a solaroid even better than that. Scale all their teamwork charms and shit.

>> No.36658235

>>36658057
>I'd rather just say "Whatever Essence the highest Solaroid the group is at, the Dragon-Blood player gets to command half that many Dragon-Bloods, wholly and completely." and let their teamwork into play without having to babysit X NPCs all the damn time.

Man, that would make pretty much any GM out there shit bricks. Not because it would be game breaking, but because it would be a complete and utter pain in the ass from a paperwork standpoint. Two out of five players in an Essence 4 group playing Dragonblooded means you have essentially 9 player characters' worth of shit to keep track of. It also heavily taxes the players, who have to keep their different characters' shit straight and role play each ones' motivations and intimacies properly.

>>36658088
There are quite a few systems out there that are mechanically stronger, simpler, more balanced, etc. than Exalted's flavor of Storyteller, yet it's easier to just use the rules as they are than to try and shoehorn something else that's better in general but hasn't been tailored for the setting. Why? Because if a system doesn't support the setting, it doesn't matter how elegant its mechanics are or how easy it is to learn or how well-balanced it is.

In other words, if the system and its mechanics do not support building narratives consistent with the setting and its conventions, then you need a new system. In the case of Exalted, if the First Age would not have happened because DBs were individually as strong as Solars, that's a problem. Likewise, if the Usurpation could not have happened because a single Solar could defeat an arbitrarily large number of DBs in all circumstances, that is also a problem.

>> No.36658237

>>36658207

Maybe not direct scaling but the idea was basically DB + DB = 2.5 DB in effect. DB + Solar = 2.5 Solar in effect.

Note: Assuming equal essence/exp tossed towards the thing. Shitty DB give a shitty effect so a Solar can't just gattai with a dozen essence 1 DB and kick everything's ass.

It's also what makes Sworn Brotherhoods fucking terrifying. As that's multiple people, all of which are fantastic at supporting each other working together. It's the epitome of 'Greater than the sum of it's parts'

>> No.36658246

>>36658207
>That actually gives an easy way to adapt DB to multisplat parties, make a dragonblood working with a celestial LITERALLY better than a dragonblood working with another dragonblood, and a dragonblood working with a solaroid even better than that. Scale all their teamwork charms and shit.
Hm, maybe give them some charms that act as a catch-up mechanic in a sense, where as long as they're buffing a Celestial exalt they power up themselves in some way too.

>> No.36658274

>>36658235
>but because it would be a complete and utter pain in the ass from a paperwork standpoint. Two out of five players in an Essence 4 group playing Dragonblooded means you have essentially 9 player characters' worth of shit to keep track of.
I'll admit I avoid this one, because I trust and expect my players to keep track of their own shit, 100%. I'll help them figure out if there's a mistake or not, but past that I just want them to be able to synopsis their abilities to me quickly and easily. I don't need to know the exact mechanics, I just need to know whether or not John will explode into pixie-dust if I throw a Disease effect at him.

>It also heavily taxes the players, who have to keep their different characters' shit straight and role play each ones' motivations and intimacies properly.
Here I'll agree. It's taxing, and far from perfect, but that's just how much the Dragon"Lord" concept pisses me off that I'm willing to go that far to avoid it.

On the other hand, playing a Dragon-Blood in a mixed group is going to be taxing regardless, even if DBs were exactly equal in power to Solars, so I'm assuming I'm only writing fixes for experienced players already when it comes to DBs-in-Solar-groups.

The other way around, the one Solar in a DB group, though, I dunno WHAT the fuck to do with that guy.

>> No.36658291

>>36658235
>In other words, if the system and its mechanics do not support building narratives consistent with the setting and its conventions, then you need a new system

the first age is not a narrative that needs to be built upon further. it is the past, over, done with. it is not something you need to concern yourself with more than what its fallout has meant for the present. same deal with the Primordial War. sooner you understand that, the sooner you'll understand a major part of why 3e is going to be the way it is.

>> No.36658374

>>36658291

If the established setting and backstory is so inconsistent that it falls apart after a few seconds of thought, there's no suspension of disbelief and no player interest.

>> No.36658402

>>36658374
myth is rarely consistent or logical in the slightest, yet it endures. you are the kind of person who asks how somebody could fit the entire ocean in a drinking horn for thor to drink, thus missing the entire point in your marigold-measuring.

>> No.36658432

>>36658402
1. You're talking to more than one person.
2. We're not talking about myth; we're talking about events that actually happened in the backstory.

>> No.36658471

>>36658291
Dragonblooded haven't gotten stronger since the First Age. Solar sparks have not diminished since then. The return of the Solars is a world-shaking event because of the great power each and every one represents on a geopolitical scale from the moment they inherit their spark and draw their Second Breath, long before they find their first artifact or get their first manse.

I have seen no indication that this is changing in 3e.

If instead ordinary Dragonblooded are individually able to keep up with Solars, assuming equal XP and essence, then the return of the Solars isn't even news. It's about 150 people that might some day be able to be high-level functionaries in backwater city-states, or perhaps somewhat-noteworthy mercenaries. The status quo is in no way threatened because the moment a Solar even STARTS rocking the boat, they find that the lowliest Lost Egg dragonblooded rent-a-cop can stop them.

What you're talking about shaking up - the notion that on an individual basis, a given Celestial exalt is more powerful than a given Dragonblooded, that a given Dragonblooded will be more powerful than a given Enlightened Mortal, and that a given Enlightened Mortal will be more powerful than an ordinary person - is one of the fundamental facts of the setting.

>>36658402
Myth and legend has its own internal consistency. In the case of Thor drinking the ocean, the edda never says that the ocean had been put into the horn. Depending on the translation, Utgard-loki is said to either have tricked Thor into drinking the ocean directly or to have used subtle magics to connect the horn to the ocean. It's also implied that the myth wasn't trying to explain the tides at all, but that Utgard-loki's explanation for why Thor wasn't able to drain the horn was a joke at Thor's expense.

In any case, if you throw out internal consistency, you throw out everything. That's why we HAVE the term "metaphysics": to describe the rules under which a setting operates.

>> No.36658514

>>36658471

>If instead ordinary Dragonblooded are individually able to keep up with Solars, assuming equal XP and essence,

I believe the assumption was that there were very, very few DB of equal essence to what a Solar can reach relatively quickly. So notable DB can kick Solar ass but the average one can't do more than threaten him with allies.

'Ordinary' DB can't keep up with Solars. Player Character/Major NPC ones can.

>> No.36658548

>>36654257
>Sidereals can have Dragon Familiars they can ride?
Technically, everbody can has a dragon familiar he can ride.
Sidereal has the toolkit to take a squirrel and make it into a dragon familiar he'll then ride.

>> No.36658557

>>36654959
>I imagine "sit in your tower and masturbate for X months" will still be the fundamental shape of the crafting system.
In the leak it's more like "sit in your tower crafting minor shit to gather craftpoints and then use those points to assemble that minor shit into bigger shit"

>> No.36658599

I don't understand why the book always talks about taking charms more then once.
Did I miss something in the core rulebook? What effects does it have to take charms more often?

>> No.36658632

>>36658599
I am very ashamed of myself, but I just found the part where it explains taking charms more then once. In the big summary table. Fuck.

>> No.36658655

>>36658599
Some charms can be taken more than once, granting their benefits multiple times. Ox Body is the prime example of this. Each time you take it, you get more health boxes. Other charms you can buy more than once, but pick a different option within the charm each time, like Excellencies. You can buy 2nd Excellency more than once, and each time you buy it you pick a different ability to apply that excellency to (or attribute, if you're a Lunar). Most charms, however, you can only buy once unless the charm says otherwise.

>> No.36658673

>>36658432
>We're not talking about myth; we're talking about events that actually happened in the backstory.

this is exalted; history and myth are intentionally blurred together here.

>> No.36658716

>>36658655
Thanks, but I still got another noob question.
The charms are sorted by caste, is this just because the abilities are sorted like that too, or is a e.g. twilight caste solar only able to learn the charms for the twilight abilities and the general charms?
(So the twilight might not learn ox-body)

>> No.36658726

>>36658716
You may learn any charm available to you. You get a discount cost when learning charms form your five Caste abilities or your five chosen Favored abilities.

>> No.36658731

>>36658726
Thanks! Sorry for dumb questions but I am pretty pretty new to exalted

>> No.36658733

>>36658655
Can Eclipses learn the Ox-Bodies of other splats on top of their own?

>> No.36658742

>>36658733
No.

>> No.36658748

>>36658733
Yes, but they cost as foreign charms and count towards the amount of Ox-Bodies you can learn (= Stamina I think).

>>36658731
Never be sorry for asking stupid questions. This game is retarded, even experienced players still get caught out by stupid shit.

>> No.36658764

>>36658673
No, if the source material states that something happened, then in the official setting that's what happened (barring retcon).

There are times that they present multiple possibilities for what might have happened or what might happen. What we're talking about isn't one of those cases; it's a core part of the setting.

If you want to say "In my game, I'm treating all of the history of the setting as a myth", that's fine, but you have to realize and admit that you've altered the setting.

If you expect everyone else to accept your edited version as official without even acknowledging that you've changed anything, you've gone full schizo.

>> No.36658790

>>36658764
you're still missing the point. history and myth are not mutually exclusive states in exalted. something can be history in the sense that it actually happened, but the actual how and why of it doesn't necessarily have to confirm to ordinary cause and effect. this is especially so for the primordial war, given that the Exalted were fighting things that ate causality for breakfast and shat out unspeakable abominations in turn. it still applies to the first age too, since the mightiest of magics and Sidereal fuckery tend to interact with the fabric of the world in unpredictable ways. creation just runs on different laws in this regard, laws that allow for a more mythic treatment of its history.

>> No.36658854

>>36658790
While I agree that Exalted's mythic approach means its history doesn't have to be quite as simulation-able as that of other settings, you're still fucking wrong. DBs aren't being made equal to Solars in 3e. They're just not going to suck and are always going to be a danger to Solars. They're making it so that no Exalt can ever totally brush off another without risk.

>> No.36658866

>>36658235

That's completely nonsensical. Game mechanics are an interface to the story, not a model of the universe.

>> No.36658874

>>36658274
>The other way around, the one Solar in a DB group, though, I dunno WHAT the fuck to do with that guy.
He is their ace in the hole. He's pretending to be just a mortal aide and they all are in on the charade.
So, he is limited in using his power unless it's really needed or the circumstances are set up for it.

>> No.36658898

>>36658866
At a few points of exalted's existence surprising elements have been literal models of exalted's universe. (Motes are still a literal thing that first age scholars determines as the smallest unit of essense they could measure, for example) They're backing away from most of that because it's kind of dumb even when entirely thought out and they're frankly not very good at entirely thinking things out, but you can't blame someone for being used to that, you just have to remind them it's not going to be that way going forward.

>> No.36658927

>>36658790

All of the things you're bringing up have limited scope in the source material.

If you can't get it through your head that large parts of the setting are -- suprise! -- canon, it isn't really possible to talk to you about the setting in any meaningful way, because you can just say any dumbass thing you want and then claim that it holds as much weight as printed material.

>> No.36658928

>>36658790
You're overly expanding mythicism to the point of making everything utterly and completely undefined.

Thor, Odin and company live in glorious city of Asgard and do awesome feats, but not having a laundry list with each awesome feat being assigned charm to do it is mythical.

Making it so that they are not in any way superior or outstanding among the millions of other supernaturals, and their feats not exceeding anything either back in the day or now, is not mythical. It's just shit.

>> No.36658960

>>36658927
He's not arguing that they didn't happen, that is are not canon. He's arguing that they happened but don't necessarily need to make perfect logical sense, because like in a myth things that should not have been possible may have happened.

>>36658928
>but not having a laundry list with each awesome feat being assigned charm to do it is mythical.

I just want to say that I'm really glad we're moving away from Charms as discrete in-universe constructs rather than helpful OOC shorthand for shit your character just fucking DOES because he's a goddamn awesome demigod.

>> No.36659001

>>36658960
FOR ME PERSONALLY a lot of the stuff they're moving away from is stuff that actually made the setting interesting instead of a sillier less coherent version of Glorantha but I'll deal I guess.

>> No.36659032

>>36658960
And that makes his version of the setting unofficial fanwankery, which he should admit.

>> No.36659039

>>36658960
>He's not arguing that they didn't happen, that is are not canon. He's arguing that they happened but don't necessarily need to make perfect logical sense, because like in a myth things that should not have been possible may have happened.
But the problem is that he's taking it way too fucking far, to the point when nothing has to make any sense at all.

>> No.36659052

>>36659001
Don't be fooled by that guy; while--again--he's right in that things are going more mythic, he was fucking wrong about DBs in the first place and making it sound like absolute Gloranthan-style reality editing rather than just ordinary myth where it can sometimes sound like a tall tale.

tl;dr It's going to be a lot lower-key than he made it sound, don't worry.

>> No.36659078

>>36659039

I believe the idea was less 'all DB can match up to all Solars' and more 'Player Character DB are one in a million and can match up to Solars'. People like the Scarlet Empress who are special by Dragonblooded standards.

The Usurpation can still work under those circumstances.

>> No.36659099

>>36659078

Indeed. One scarlet empress shaped the world. One hundred and fifty of them? That's going to be chaos.

>> No.36659102

>>36659052
Oh I'm not fooled I've been paying a lot of attention which is WHY I'm worried. Well not really worried since I'll just use the stuff I liked anyway since I'll probably be the one running games, but a lot of the changes and theme's they're set on either don't seem to actually achieve what they want OR they're not willing to go whole hog on. If you want to make solars REALLY GOOD at stuff instead of being powered by sunmagic, you need to do more than just insist really hard they they're not powered by sunmagic.

>> No.36659109

>>36659032
No, the part where he took it too damn far is what takes it over the line into fanwankery. The whole "our mechanics do not need to make it possible to play out major events of the setting's history because history in Exalted is a kind of myth and also said mechanics are not meant to be the world physics" deal? That's the actual official stance of the development team for 3e.

>> No.36659111

>>36659052
>>36659102
(Also you're really exagerating glorantha, you can't really edit reality in glorantha, what you can edit is myth, it's just myth has actual effects because people rely on the magic it grants.)

>> No.36659113

>>36659078
Yes that was the sentiment by the reasonable people, but that guy grabbed the "all DBs are equal to Solars" and tried slapping "mythic" as an excuse to why there wouldn't be a problem.

Also yes, I do support the way of doing non-solar splats in cross-splat party by making them be NOT the noobs default chargen has them as.

>> No.36659134

>>36659113
Also in addendum, the typical argument of "thrown master solar kills everybody" is not really against or for mysticism. It's just an illustration of how broken that tree got. If you have it in a Shard that didn't have the Usurpation, it's still broken even if it has nothing in the setting to violate.

>> No.36659135

>>36659111
Can't heroquesting actually make retroactive changes in present reality if you fuck it up hard enough...or succeed at it hard enough, depending on your point of view?

>> No.36659171

>>36659113

Eh. I'd lean more towards 'Keeping the chargen/charms rather equal' and instead going with 'Most DB are a lot less high essence than solars quickly reach'.

Mostly because they are changing the 1-10 essence scale to 1-5, which means a lot more compacting. I'd personally lean something like:

Essence 1: Most majority of DB
Essence 2: Starting Solars, Starting PC DB, Experienced DB
Essence 3: Experienced Solars/PC DB, Veteran DB (Experienced Immaculate monks and stuff)
Essence 4: Veteran Solars/PC DB, Elder DB (House leaders and stuff)
Essence 5: Elder Solars/PC DBs, World Shaking DB (Scarlet Empress)

It's the same sort of thing but is easier to deal with mechanically when designing charms as you don't need to go 'Well, this is an essence X charm for Solars, Essence Y for DB' and has less concerns with scaling (As weaker charms but more exp tends to result in a plateau as your charms being a bit worse means that you'll cap a bit worse).

Same basic idea (PC DB would be, fluffwise, either highly experienced or amazingly talented, with listed smaller amount if you want to go with just starting out DB) as what you are going with, I'd just represent it mechanically a bit different as I feel it would help the system be easier to work with.

>> No.36659215

>>36659171
>It's the same sort of thing but is easier to deal with mechanically when designing charms as you don't need to go 'Well, this is an essence X charm for Solars, Essence Y for DB' and has less concerns with scaling (As weaker charms but more exp tends to result in a plateau as your charms being a bit worse means that you'll cap a bit worse).
Ahh, for a rewrite, yes that's better. I was more angling for using the current system, which has weaker charms for DBs and so compensating by giving them more XP and age to reach a higher Essence grade.

>> No.36659245

>>36659215

Ah, yeah. I was talking about 'If I was doing a rewrite', not current stuff.

I'm someone who enjoys math with their RPGs and I've done enough amatuer game design that 'Level X for Y class is not the same as Level X for Z class' annoys the fuck out of me. It's a similar sort of boat with Exalts, even if it's not quite the same.

It just makes subsequent design an ass and a half as you need to reassess every time what the 'level' (In this case essence) means.

>> No.36659257

>>36659135
No, that was the whole point of the creation of the goddess Time, things that have already happened are set in stone and everything proceeds in a linear fashion. You can basically make retroactive changes to the myths though which fucks up all the magic people use that relies on that myth, and a lot of seemingly mundane stuff is magic. So you fuck up an earth goddess heroquest in the wrong way and suddenly whoops the earth mother never returned from the underworld and nobody can fucking grow crops in the local area, but you were still absolutely able to grow crops LAST year and that doesn't change. Plus chances are other people are also performing the same heroquests in other places and you probably performed the same heroquest last year so things are a little stable. Really monumental fuckups don't tend to happen unless you're messing about with myths nobodies done heroquests of for a long time.
But yes, I think in general I think Glorantha is a better venue for bronze age mysticism than Exalted will ever be.

>> No.36659281

>>36659257
Huh. I should mention that my main exposure to Glorantha is King of Dragon Pass. Where you can do shit like completely rewrite the geography of the pass because you botched Lhankor Mhy's heroquest horrifically.

>> No.36659311

>>36659281
I'm pretty sure what actually happens is you screw up everybody's ability to keep track of and map the geography, which is the same sort of thing. I mean Lankhor Mhy doesn't have any association with geography, you'd have to screw up a heroquest for one of the dudes who placed Glorantha's hills for that result to make sense. (It still wouldn't actually happen though, because Time. If you were trying to build an artificial hill and you screwed up his heroquest to aid the process you might as well give up though.)

>> No.36659776

>>36659171
Solars start at Essence 1

>> No.36659798

Who is your favorite canon NPC and why?

>> No.36659810

>>36659798
The roseblack, because I don't even fucking know I just fucking love the roseblack

>> No.36659817

>>36659798
Probably the Perfect of Paragon, he created one of the best places to live in Creation and he achieved levels of mastery nearly unheard of in mortals in the pursuits he took.

>> No.36659818

>>36653466
Editing is never done. Eventually you stop, but it's never done.

>> No.36659830

>>36659776

That was a hypothetical 'how I'd do it'. Not how it is now. In order to incorporate both 'Solars are better than DB as a general case' and 'DB can match and even beat solars in specific cases'.

>> No.36659849

>>36659798
To use in a game: Lyta. Just love showing that insane bitch to her fellow Solars.

Just like: Tammuz. He's a cool dude.

>> No.36659898

>>36659798
Prince Balor of the Terrible Gaze.

Without having a single fucking clue as to what Creation is and what sort of dangers it might hold, he decided to attack it with all his influence. Whether or not it was a trap.

That sort of single-minded piety to an ideal from a foreign quarter is strangely appealing to me.

>> No.36659945

>>36659898

I'd love to get more info on the Fae who managed to match the Unconquered Sun, in creation, for a full day before eventually the combination of the Unconquered Sun and being in creation overwhelmed him.

That guy must have been impressive.

>> No.36659954

>>36659945
>I'd love to get more info on the Fae who managed to match the Unconquered Sun

That's bullshit and you know it unless he suppressed his temperance

>> No.36659995

>>36659954

It's something that (Maybe) happened. It's hard to tell with Fae stories. It's (Supposedly) the story of the first Sunset, as the Fae drove the UCS to the edge of his power before falling.

Mechanically it can't happen with the current rules...but then, the rules for Essence 10 Fae are completely missing so it may have gone down to Perfect vs Perfect until one of them failed.

>> No.36660013

>>36659954

Conky hasn't lost but that doesn't mean he hasn't been tested before.

>> No.36660029

>>36659995

An essence 10 Fae is a creative maelstrom to the point that statting them is pointless. They'll change every tick.

>> No.36660034

>>36659945
>>36659954
"The shadow of Prince Balor of the Terrible Gaze falls long across the history of Creation and the Wyld alike. Before him, Prince Laashe, the Morning Star, confounded the Unconquered Sun into breaking his sworn oath, and then re-cast himself in the fires of the sun. Before Prince Laashe there was the Fomorian Dream, a great darkness which blanketed the sky from horizon to horizon and thundered with the distant steps of a beast of nightmare; those who imagined the owner of those dread steps died where they stood, slain by fear. The Fomorian Dream declared his intent to crush the house of the Primordials between his teeth, and stood in battle against the Unconquered Sun for a full day before finally being burned away by the Godspear of All-Searing Noon; the history of the Dragon Kings record their battle as the day the sun did not rise."

This was likely back when UCS was just a dude protecting Creation from the raksha under the command of the Primordials, though.

>> No.36660056

>>36660029

Likely, yes. Just saying that 'You can't really say that it's bullshit when one side is completely unstatted'

>>36660034

Yeah, that's who I was talking about. Those sort of Fae are very cool and I'd really like to see more with them.

I mean 'The Fae who causes the sun not to rise' is very evocative and cool and the sort of foe you could scare a solar circle with.

>> No.36660078

>>36660029

Exalted somewhat screwed up when it failed to do what Vampire did and simply label the 10-dot powers "Plot Device."

>> No.36660088

>>36660056
>I mean 'The Fae who causes the sun not to rise' is very evocative and cool and the sort of foe you could scare a solar circle with.
Well a sudden Fomorian Dream v2 could be a massive setting-altering campaign.
It's not just "shit happened, Exalts go fix it" it's due to how endless night is going to trigger all other kinds of shit, especially the undead.

>> No.36660110

>>36660056
We have a few stat and charms for Ess 10 raksha.

Terrible Wonderland Infliction;
"Drawing upon the rising power of her Essence, the raksha becomes a torrent of Wyld potential, bringing the enlightening madness of Rakshastan into stale and staid Creation."
"A fourth and final purchase at Essence 10 allows Pure Chaos to be brought into the midst of Creation."

Iron Nightmare Muzzle;
"The raksha shapes a bit of gossamer into an entangling and restrictive set of obscure metaphysical laws, then hurls it into an opponent’s Essence flows. If the raksha succeeds on a physical or social attack enhanced by this Charm, her target adds one mote to the Essence cost of all Charms for one scene."
"Essence 10 renders this Charm’s penalty permanent unless repaired with anti-Crippling magic."

With Essence 10 raksha can also throw down Solar Circle Sorcery reflexively in Creation six times per story. You can resist the effects of these Wyld Stunts by paying 5 willpower.

>> No.36660121

>>36660088

Oh yeah. It would be really interesting. That's the sort of thing I'm talking about. A threat that is bigger than any single exalt without being the Yozi.

Doubly so that Conky doesn't get off his ass much these days.

I dunno, maybe I'm just a bit sad that Fae as a whole seem to be regulated to 'Dragonblooded- tier' as a whole. Doubly so when basicly everything they do is Shaping and thus worth fuckall to anyone who matters.

They might be a favorite splat of mine just due to some of the really evocative ideas.

>> No.36660141

>>36660078
No, that's part of Exatled's premise. Nobody is invincible or ineffable; anyone can be challenged and possibly killed if they succumb to hubris, no matter how powerful or important they are. There's no sort of being that is so far above any other that there's no point in statting it, especially not the seemingly all-powerful creators of reality. Defining a being as "so powerful that you don't need the details" detracts from the setting's main themes.

>> No.36660144

>>36660110
Fantasies shaped by an Essence 10 raksha also impose a -10 internal penalty to everyone who goes against the shaped narrative, even after they spend the Willpower to act against it. Only entities capable of stunts or Charms can reject a fantasy.

A raksha could say "All Creation-born in this kingdom will try to kill themselves." Anyone who tries to do something other than suicide takes -10 internal to the action, which must be stunted or enhanced by a charm.

>> No.36660168

>>36660144
That's... probably not how it works.
You're just using a basic raksha power with bigger number.
But pretty sure an Essence 2 Noble can't just order every mundane mortal in any random kingdom to just do anything.

>> No.36660190

>>36660121
Aren't we all sad that Raksha are only Dragonblooded-tier?

... Well, I know I am.

>> No.36660198

>>36660168
Fantasies only work in the Wyld, this was in addition to Terrible Wonderland Infliction that can be combined with the Assumption of the Living Kingdom. It is doable by Ess 10 monstrosities, but turning kingdoms into wyld zones is not within the purview of Essence 2 raksha.

The reason why it doesn't happen is that perfect raksha territories in Creation get shot down by the Realm Defense Grid automatically.

>> No.36660224

>>36660198
>Fantasies only work in the Wyld
Yeah, that's what I was thinking.

And frankly, within Pure Chaos region, an Essence 10 Raksha is beyond mere fantasies.
They simply define everything.

>> No.36660293

>>36660168
Getting every single mortal in a kingdom to do what you want, though, is very doable as an essence 2 raksha by incorporating Emotion-Weaving Style and Assumption of a Living Kingdom into an outward-facing oneiromantic spell. Lets you redefine the Motivations of all mortals who do something within the area of a kingdom for a year and a day. Artifact 4, though. Oneiromancy is pretty busted.

>> No.36660440

>>36660293
>doable as an essence 2 raksha by incorporating Emotion-Weaving Style and Assumption of a Living Kingdom into an outward-facing oneiromantic spell
More RPGs need needlessly complicated powers.

>> No.36660657

What kind of cultures can I expect to find in the South, either fictional or not!whatever?

>> No.36660761

What example, in fiction, do you think is appropriate for showing the strengths and limitations of a solar?

>> No.36660801

>>36660657
>Arabian Niiiiiiiights

>> No.36660809

>>36660761
Gilgamesh and Enkitu are considered the archetypal Solar with Lunar Mate pair, so that seems a good place to start.

>> No.36660838

>>36660761

People may not like Anime examples but Fuhrer King Bradley is a pretty fantastic example of a Solar in my opinion. He's got no real obvious powers beyond an almost supernatural awareness of everything about him that leads to him fighting inhumanly well.

Everything he does, a human could (Theoreticly) do or it's an extrapolation of something a human can do. He doesn't shoot fire or teleport or fly. He just fights so well he can keep up with people with much more blatantly supernatural powers and cyborgs without breaking a sweat.

>> No.36660888

>>36660838
Oh Bradley, that nigga. Best Dawn. Shit, I wanna create a character based off of him now, maybe some sort of Gold Faction puppet or something.

>> No.36660899

>>36660801
Also bits and pieces of Africa and India

>> No.36661231

>>36660888

Yeah. Him vs Alchemists is sort of how I see Solars vs Dragonblooded.

Dragonblooded have a lot more fancy tricks and blatantly supernatural powers to change how a battle is fought.

A solar? He's just that skilled he can match all that fancy tricks with inhuman skill and talent. He can dodge lightning bolts or parry blades of molten magma and drive a blade through solid stone skin.

Mind you, those fancy tricks have their own upsides.

>> No.36662171

>>36658374
>If the established setting and backstory is so inconsistent that it falls apart after a few seconds of thought, there's no suspension of disbelief and no player interest.

It's not inconsistent. The system is designed to facilitate play in the Age of Sorrows with the return of the Solars. First Age/Usurpation play has already been stated to be on a different level, even mechanically. Devs have already stated if they're going to support play for that age, or even the previous age, they'll need to rewrite the system for those books.

>> No.36662253

>>36660141
No, that was the stance of 2e. Exalted is really, you need a plot device to kill a plot device, and the power to wield said plot device. That facilitates story.

>> No.36662267

>>36660657
Africa, India, Arabia, Mediterranian on the coast, maybe even some Wild West, but im considering reserving that for the south Blessed Isle.

>> No.36662724

>>36662171
The fact that the game is designed with playability in the age of sorrows in mind does not mean that the setting and backstory are not incosistent with the mechanics; they are just explicitly stating that they are incosistent. Personally, I like altering the backstory to fit the mechanics better, because it's less work. So, in my games I say that events like the Three Spheres Cataclysm in the Primordial War, the breaking of the costellation of the Mask in in the Usurpation, and even the Balorian Crusade/Great Contagion altered the state of Creation such that the mechanics reflect the current age but not the Shogunate or First Age. But that's just my preference.

>> No.36663276

What's the best Shintai?

What's the most fun to use?

>> No.36663336
File: 391 KB, 1109x1599, 1386401511460.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
36663336

>>36663276

>Best

Possibly "I'm a Sandstorm" Shintai or "Thanks for buying my entire charmset" Shintai.

>Fun

I really like "Final Boss of every FF game" Shintai, especially because you can buy it at chargen.

>> No.36663352 [DELETED] 

>>36663276
I had some fun with Splintered Gale the other day.
My character was waiting on the rest of the party so there was four identical twins playing cards at an inn when they arrived.

>> No.36663383

>>36663336
>Charmset

I read that, is it actually any good since you can do all the effects already by buying the actual charms. Plus it still requires you to commit essence to MHM

>> No.36663439

>>36663276
Devil Tyrant Avatar Shintai. It's just so... It's just more Exalted than Exalted.

>> No.36663464

>>36663383

+20B/L Soak, at least 10B/L hardness, flight, free PIO use, infinite clinches, x3 strength with MHM at (Ess x 300) yards and a rate of 10.

Yeah, it's one of the more powerful ones.

>> No.36663726

What kind of imagery is good for Lunar manses and demesnes?

>> No.36663736

>>36663276
Mechanically, SWLIHN's Thank-you-for-buying-all-my-charms Shintai is probably the most generically useful.

Splintered Gale Shintai is probably the most fun, however. It has a lot of narrative power for a player clever enough to use it well. If you're able to get the second repurchase it works basically as an extra life.

>> No.36663756

Can an Eclipse learn Sorcerous Initiation of (Yozi) as a foreign charm and pick up the Infernal summoning spell?

Likewise, can a Fiend learn traditional sorcery charms and learn Demon of the X Circle or Summon Elemental?

>> No.36663797

>>36663756
1. Yes, but that's strictly worse, if I recall correctly.

2. No.

>> No.36663801

>>36663726
I have a Lunar that has a Manse with no internal consistency, it's a cave in which there is an entrance and a small tunnel leading into it.
After walking for a while there are inconsistencies, there walls start moving, you start hearing and seeing things, and you can't think of which way you just came from.
Functionally the manse displays illusions and changes its internal workings as per two powers from Oedanol's Codex.
I always really liked it.

>> No.36663823

>>36663336
>I really like "Final Boss of every FF game" Shintai, especially because you can buy it at chargen.
I'd probably like Devil Avatar a lot more if the mutations weren't so thinly divided between each book. Being able to choose from all mutations is actually rather inconvenient when there isn't a damn list that tells you what they are and what they do.

>> No.36663842

>>36663797
>2. No.

Aww.

>> No.36663852

>>36663823
Anathema is a great help there.
Doesn't make the situation ok, but it helps when you actually do it.

>> No.36663873
File: 267 KB, 1280x656, 1409888944390.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
36663873

>>36663726

Demesne associations, from Oadenols:

moon, night, silver, moonsilver, nature, animals, religion, purity, evolution, spirit, cycles, feminine, beauty, honor, motherhood, nurture, truth, defense, strength, battles, wisdom, awareness, internal, wit, responsibility, aloneness, water, love, sex, simplicity, destruction, equality, reflections, mysticism, the Wyld, insanity, rage, claws, heartbeats, bodies, crescents, fluidity, marriages, white and gray.

Manses:

Irregular, crescent or circular forms and layout, optical and architectural illusions, completely natural materials, mirrors, silver accents, shifting ornament, hunting trophies, animal forms.

>> No.36664230

>>36662724

That is actually precisely what it means. Devs of EX3 have said time and time again. The First Age is done, the Primordial War is done. You are playing in the Age of Sorrows, and the mechanics facilitate that. The system as designed so far does not support Primordial War or First Age play.

This was one of the glaring issues of 2e, trying to jury rig 1e's system into super high power games of the First Age and Primordial Wars. It ended up a terribly unbalanced piece of crap. By designing a system that is balanced for current play is the focus. They have said, again, if they were to support Primordial War or First Age play, the system would need to be entirely overhauled to balance it in that scope. There is an entirely different scope of power between the Age of Sorrows, and the First Age.

Specifically the system facilitates Essence 1-5 play. Anything above that, it currently does not support and I don't anticipate it will for core.

>> No.36664494

Can MHM learned by an Eclipse be enhanced to be Holy?

>> No.36664674

>>36664494

Sure, if you can find something in the Solar Charmset that can make Occult unarmed attack rolls Holy.

Spoilers: There probably won't be any.

>> No.36664755

>>36664674
I think there's a solar Integrity(?) charm that turns everything holy.

>> No.36664780

>>36664674
Enemy Castigating Solar Judgement wouldn't work?

>> No.36664850

>>36664780

Whoops, you're right. I forgot they had a flat application of Holy Charm. That'd work.

>> No.36665089

just wondering, under what skill would bartendering fall into?

>> No.36665119

>>36665089
Sounds more like a specialty in Socialize or something.

>> No.36665160

>>36665089

Simply and only the act of mixing drinks? Craft [Water], largely unrolled, unless someone asks for something bizarre.

The act of *bartending,* including all the social aspects and boozeschmoozery? Socialize, yeah.

>> No.36665169

>>36665089
Socialize and Craft(Water) I think.

>> No.36665215

>>36665089
You mean the flashy cocktail making? Performance for mixer juggling and shit.

>> No.36665931

What are good sources of aggravated soak?

>> No.36666021

>>36665931
Artifact plate.

>> No.36666072

>>36666021
Which book, the ones in core only list L/B

>> No.36666099

>>36666072
They have equal agg soak to their lethal soak as I remember.

>> No.36666181

>>36666099
Shit really?

>> No.36666211

>>36666181
Yeah, agg damage is just lethal that leaves worse wounds.
All armor has this actually, it's detailed on page 149 in the core rule book.

>> No.36666221

>>36666072

(Artifact?) Armor grants Agg soak and hardness equal to its Lethal soak. It's tucked away in the combat chapter somewhere, iirc.

>> No.36666234

>>36666211
Leeeegend

>> No.36667018

Solars have a relatively high number of effects that cause aggravated damage, at least to creatures of darkness. What about other splats? How can they cause aggravated damage?

>> No.36667101

>>36664230
Fucking this.

>> No.36667138

>>36667018

Lunars have access to a (pretty anemic) Holy tree.

Dragon-Bloods... have to go into martial arts or artifacts to get any, iirc. Sidereals might have some?

Infernals get agg through the Green Sun Nimbus Flare tree, predominantly.

>> No.36667141

So, in Exalted 2E, how long does the lunaring process take? If the lunar pact manage to grab a newly exalted Lunar the moment they exalt for the first time, how long for them to go though the moonsilver tattoos, trials, and other such stuff before the pact lets them get about their business? Months?

>> No.36667160

>>36667018

Solars, Lunars, Sidereals and DBs all have holy charms for fighting CoDs. Infernals have charms that deal Agg to gods in the Malfeas tree, MHM deals Agg to Fae, and they've Infernal Relics which they can use to pick up spirit charms such as Bane Weapon. Abyssals have charms that deal Agg to mortals IIRC.

>> No.36667330

>>36667141

I imagine that it'd be a month to do the tattoos between making them and applying them all over the body (In reality a full body tattoo is done over multiple sessions), and the trails before hand could be another week to a month depending on what the Lunar must do and how they do them. After that is the tutoring, they learn the history of the Silver Pact and the first age from another Lunar and learning skills and abilities such as how to fight.

>> No.36667342

>>36667018
Raksha have an entry level Charm called Knife-Hand Dream that makes barehanded attacks deal aggravated damage for 1 gossamer/attack.

>> No.36668512

Speaking of tattoos, is there any limit to how many Demon Ink Tattoos can be applied to a single person? Are they limited to one, or can they just grab a whole bunch of them to augment all their attributes, abilities, and specialties to ridiculous levels?

>> No.36668801

>>36668512

Technically there's no upper limit save the amount of motes you can afford to spend attuning to everything.

There's unofficial errata on Infernal Relics on Eric Mintons Blog here:

https://ericminton.wordpress.com/2014/07/09/ink-monkey-bones-9-unofficial-infernal-relics-errata/

>> No.36669055

>>36664230
It's sad to me that the company can clearly see that the problem with Scion is that the developers didn't account for the full scope of the game when they started releasing books, and yet decide that making that mistake intentionally is somehow a good idea for Exalted.

>> No.36669148

>>36668801
Now I have to ask; Is there a limit of the number of Skin-Mount Amulets one can have implanted upon ones self? Seems like it'd be too easy to just offset the tattoo costs by acquiring tons of skin-mounts for extra motes.

>> No.36669220

>>36669148

Again, no. A canon DB has four, though you'll need to attune to four manses to make use of them. Again, ask your ST if you're allowed to do any of this.

>> No.36669306

>>36669055

No, that isn't the move. "First Age" was not ever supposed to be part of the "full scope" of Exalted, that's purely an invention of 2E.

3E is making the choice to pointedly and explicitly say that the First Age is out of scope, rather than just leaving it off (and thereby leaving the temptation for devs to try doing it).

This isn't "Scion actively declaring that God won't be part of it and not accounting for when God inevitably rolls around," this is "D&D declaring that there won't be rules support for the primordial era of gods vs. titans vs. cosmic forces and being fine with that."

>> No.36670131

>>36662267
I think you'll find that the appropriate place for the wild west is actually the southern underworld.

>> No.36670322

>>36670131
I don't see how, as the Wild West have many themes to it that don't fit a dark/gothic aesthetic.

The devs have said they're expanding the Blessed Isle to be like Creation in minutiae,that's why Wild West can fit in south Blessed Isle.

>> No.36670666

>>36669306
Except that given careful planning and a little bit of luck, a Solar has a reasonable expectation of surviving a few centuries. With a couple small time skips, it's not unreasonable that a group will need guidelines for Essence 6+ play in the Age of Sorrows. The current 3e model, based on what the devs themselves have said, essentially means that campaigns that reach that point either stop or are completely on their own in trying to make Essence 6+ Celestial play work. We don't even have the uncertainty of whether or not the game's math will work for such play; we've already been told that the system will break down at those numbers.

>> No.36670827

>>36670666
>Except that given careful planning and a little bit of luck, a Solar has a reasonable expectation of surviving a few centuries. With a couple small time skips, it's not unreasonable that a group will need guidelines for Essence 6+ play in the Age of Sorrows.

Sure, in the same way it's not unreasonable that D&D "needs" guidelines for level 21+ play. Oh wait no, that's a very recent invention and has never been anything but an afterthought.

>The current 3e model, based on what the devs themselves have said, essentially means that campaigns that reach that point either stop or are completely on their own in trying to make Essence 6+ Celestial play work.
We've already seen E6 effects in the playtest. I doubt we'll be COMPLETELY in the cold, but I also doubt we'll see an entire splat dedicated to E6+ magic, let alone First Age play, which is a distinct concept.

"First Age" play is like asking a post-apocalyptic system to work in settings where there was no apocalypse. "E6+" play is just asking a post-apocalyptic system to have some tech left over from the pre-apocalypse: which it probably will, but not a lot of it, or enough to let you focus on it.

>We don't even have the uncertainty of whether or not the game's math will work for such play; we've already been told that the system will break down at those numbers.
[citation needed]

>> No.36671017

Can any of you help me find a rule that I can't, or simply tell my if it doesn't exist? AFAIK, gods are not able to learn CMA until they reach Essence 6, with the four virtue styles in the Imperfect Lotus book being the only exception. Is this true?

>> No.36671094

>>36670827
>>We don't even have the uncertainty of whether or not the game's math will work for such play; we've already been told that the system will break down at those numbers.
>[citation needed]

I remember hearing something like that from a developer, but unfortunately I can't fucking find the quote on Nishkriya because it's un-fucking-searchable and I'm not going back through half a year of posts one at a time to try to find it.

>> No.36671140

>>36671094
Try using the What We Know wiki? It's more chewable.

>>36671017
That is correct.

>> No.36671348

>>36671140
Okay, finally found one reference to such a breakdown.

>(Holden) "There will be no Other Traits 6+, in part because they slag the math the system runs on."

>> No.36671756

>>36671140

Cool, thanks. Where is the rule in question, though?

>> No.36671774

>>36670322
Honestly the underworld isn't JUST dark/gothic, its also where they shove most of their western themes

>> No.36671865 [DELETED] 
File: 17 KB, 555x235, 1412235751915.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
36671865

Why do you people want to support this man again?

>> No.36671894
File: 24 KB, 792x252, first opinion.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
36671894

What's the best Immaculate Dragon Style?
>2.5

>> No.36671993

>>36671894

Water Dragon is still pretty much top dog, yeah.

>> No.36672119

>>36671865
Because he may be an idiot but he's the idiot Exalted needs. And also the one the shitty fanbase deserves.

>> No.36672430

>>36670827
>Sure, in the same way it's not unreasonable that D&D "needs" guidelines for level 21+ play.
It's normal for any game to peter out after a few sessions because people flake out and campaigns fall apart. That doesn't mean you should design a game with that as the default assumption. Motivations for Celestial exalts are supposed to be setting-altering in scope, and getting anywhere close to accomplishing them will often take multiple story arcs and in-game decades, if not in-game centuries of planning and effort. Reaching Essence 6+ is even considered to be a baseline minimum requirement for accomplishing goals along the lines of "end the Deathlords" or "surpass Brigid in sorcery".

Exalted operates on a grand scale, and instead of figuring out how to make a game work on that scale, the designers went the route of making a game that assumes everyone at the table will get tired of the game and stop well short of actually leaving a lasting mark on Creation.

>> No.36672520

>>36671865

i like that because he isn't even aware how tacking "nazi" onto his comparison adds a lot of baggage to the claim to begin with

it's like meta-meta

>> No.36672527

>>36672430
No, they designed a game where you can leave a lasting mark on Creation without even needing to go beyond Essence 5. When asked what an Exalt at Essence 5 will be able to do (and note also that this does not necessarily imply that you NEED to be Essence 5 to do every one of these things, to boot):

>A: Found religions, build up nations or knock them down or take them over, raise vast all-consuming armies with which to conquer as much map as you can grab and then try to weld the resulting chaos into an empire, unearth the lost glories of the time before, drag gods down from their gilded temples and behead them in front of their followers, fight giant monsters, engage in high-stakes romance with beautiful and deadly faeries from the Lands Beyond Creation, put cities to the flame in order to prosecute ancient vendettas, steer the course of history and preserve the sanctity of the shape of what must be for tomorrow to come, advance the political and financial interests of your family and followers, begin a civil war to win a throne set over the world, plumb the harrowing depths of sorcery, descend to seek knowledge or power or love among the dead and then ascend back to the world of the living, begin an eternal crusade to avenge yourself upon the world, challenge the greatest warriors alive to prove that you are the strongest fighter to have ever lived, create enduring alliances to weather the rigors of a time of chaos, amass vast wealth and live in splendor and fight off all who would seek to take what is now yours, look for purpose and meaning in a world that seems to have no place for you, sit down to play at dice or diplomacy with the Princes of Hell, forge splendid weapons of legend, attempt to restore the former splendor of a crumbling world, explore lost or forgotten or wholly undiscovered frontiers, punch Wong Bongerok in the dick, etc, etc, etc. (Holden)

>> No.36672652

>>36670666
My understanding is that in Ex3 reaching Essence 6+ won't be something that will almost certainly happen for most Exalted who live long enough. Exalted with several centuries of experience behind them may and probably will have Essence 5, not higher.

>> No.36672658

>>36672430
>Reaching Essence 6+ is even considered to be a baseline minimum requirement for accomplishing goals along the lines of "end the Deathlords" or "surpass Brigid in sorcery".

2E-isms, every one of them.

Essence 6+ was not ever supposed to be requisite for those things, but 2E's hamhanded design made it so.

>> No.36672833

>>36671865
Because although phrased in a stupid way hes not wrong

>> No.36672900

>>36671865
Neither Dev is necessarily a good or likeable person, but that has no bearing on the quality of the game. I only care about them insofar as they can make Exalted a decent game.

>> No.36674178

This how I Solar
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0oUW1MmZjDI

>> No.36674643

>>36672833
He is, though.

>>36672658
How wrong is it that I think it should be, barring insane amounts of luck?

>> No.36674727

>>36674643
Exalted isn't supposed to have the Elder Problem (tm) like other White Wolf/Onyx Path game lines do. So to that I would most likely say gb2 Vampire.

>> No.36674728

>>36674643
>How wrong is it that I think it should be, barring insane amounts of luck?

Meh? I'd rather the barrier be something more interesting than "a number GOT ONE POINT HIGHER!"

Same reason I've never bought into D&D shifting gods from "level 16+" challenges to "level 21+" challenges: you didn't make the fight any more or less interesting, you just made it less likely to happen at all.

>> No.36674802

>>36674727
I don't play Vampire and I'm not aware of the Elder Problem (tm) or whatever it is. I just don't think that a low-powered Exalt, say e1 or e3, should be able to kick the deathlords' collective asses like the anon you quoted used as an example. At least, not without a lot of really good rolls.

>>36674728
Okay, maybe I didn't make myself clear enough. I don't think that, given the deathlords are multiple high-Essence beings, a low-essence PC should have a good chance of beating them. I don't care if that barrier is because of high numbers or because of unique abilities or whatever else. I want that barrier to exist in the first place.

>> No.36674859

>>36674802
>I don't think that, given the deathlords are multiple high-Essence beings, a low-essence PC should have a good chance of beating them.

Sure, but "low essence" isn't 5. "Low essence" is 2. 5 is high essence, endgame, absolutely the appropriate time to be tackling the Deathlords (who, remember, until 2E randomly decided they should be Boss Monsters whose power-bases were just irrelevant filligree, were not actually Essence 10 creatures wielding Solaroid Charms, or, by any indications, anything more than Essence 8 Ghosts)

>> No.36674866

>>36671865
Because this >>36672900
Also because GamerGate has no bearing on this community. Most people here have enough perspective on the issue that they understand the issue is infinitely more complex than tribalistic trench wars, while also understanding that the way the Internet works and the way Twitter works naturaly spawn tribalistic trench wars.

>> No.36674884

>>36674859
Fair enough.

>> No.36674922

>>36674859
A caveat: A fixture of 3e apparently is the fact that at no point in an Exalt's career can anyone completely write him off as a complete and utter non-issue. So yes, an Essence 1 or 2 Solar may not be able to kill a Deathlord, but he may survive a fight with him. He may even seriously injure him before dying, if the Deathlord makes a foolish mistake (and since not all of them are particularly wise, this is just on this side of "completely possible").

Likewise, a Solar might be slain by a mortal if he gets way too cocky.

>> No.36674923

>>36674802
> I want that barrier to exist in the first place.
From what I gather, the general feeling on the Elders' separate playing ground is that most people want it gone.

You are a rare breed indeed. Would you be interested in a spot in my collection?

>> No.36674954

>>36674923
Don't make me tell Grandmother Bright you've been a bad boy.

>> No.36674966

>>36674802
>I just don't think that a low-powered Exalt, say e1 or e3, should be able to kick the deathlords' collective asses like the anon you quoted used as an example. At least, not without a lot of really good rolls.
How can anyone think otherwise? At Essence 1 to 3 an Exalt is just a mortal with some superpowers. They're not ready to change a Direction yet, much less end a Creation-wide threat like a Deathlord.

>> No.36674995

>>36674643
>>36674727

You want a relatively fresh Exalt to be reasonably able to take out the toughest enemies in the setting? There's no point in even having the game then.

>> No.36675013

>>36674995
Whoops, didn't mean the quote the first guy.

>> No.36675029

>>36671774
Not exactly. It's really designed with Western theology and Gothic literature in mind.

Creation is very Eastern theology and Pulp literature.

>> No.36675030

>>36675013
>>36674995
That's a nice strawman you got there.

I want it.

>> No.36675081

>>36675030
PCs frequently hit ess 5 within 4 years of Exalting, IC. That's a pretty fresh Exalt.

>> No.36675107

>>36675081
Do you have a citation for that which is valid for EX3?

>> No.36675115

>>36675107
I thought we were talking about how in 2e, ess 6+ was required to challenge some of the big guys?

>> No.36675138

>>36675081
>>36675107

Hell, do you even have one valid for 2e? Other than "groups are generally spastic little shits who hand out lots of XP and run campaigns with no timeskips"?

>> No.36675144

>>36675115
No, these posts are in the context of EX3.

>> No.36675162

>>36674995
Sure, if by "reasonably able to take out" you mean "cannot be brushed off as a non-threat by". A young Exalt is still an EXALT. And an Exalt is by the very definition something you don't fuck with lightly, at any age. Certainly, most of the time, the Deathlord will crush him in a straight fight. But he doesn't have that one hundred percent guarantee, and therein lies the biggest change from 2e. There are no absolute sure bets anymore. Not in a young Solar vs. a Deathlord. Not in a Solar vs. a DB. Not in a Solar vs. a mortal. This is a good thing, because it means battles can be exciting instead of a solved game of mote numbers.

>> No.36675182

>>36670666
>We don't even have the uncertainty of whether or not the game's math will work for such play; we've already been told that the system will break down at those numbers.
That uncertainty was gone ever since the game first tried making those levels playable.
It is a simple fact of the matter that trying to put E1-5 and E6-10 under the same umbrella is a fool's task.
They're focusing on making E1-5 balanced and playable, along with ditching the concept of "everybody older than 100 is Ess 6+"
Doing E6-10 would immensely increase the amount of work needed for the game

>> No.36675187

>>36675162
At least based on the leak, Initiative Crashed Solars have very few options to defend against anyone. It's fun.

>> No.36675210

>>36675187
Not really. Initiative Crash doesn't actually prevent you from defending at all, it just prevents you from using a few Charms that don't work at Initiative Crash. And there are still useful defensive effects that don't require it. On the other hand, it DOES disable the perfect defenses and could actually allow for some very determined mortal opposition to strike a really telling blow if the Solar's really screwed the pooch.

>> No.36675355

>>36675187
That's not true. Being in crash is bad but it only deactivates a few Charms. You still have all your regular defenses available to protect you.

>> No.36675555

>>36674802
>I just don't think that a low-powered Exalt, say e1 or e3, should be able to kick the deathlords' collective asses like the anon you quoted used as an example. At least, not without a lot of really good rolls.
Of course not. But the difference is between "You need E5 which takes a long and hard way to get" and "You need E8 and you should go take a vacation for a couple thousand years"

What makes the latter more appealing?

>> No.36675592

>>36675115
>I thought we were talking about how in 2e, ess 6+ was required to challenge some of the big guys?
Yes and some guy talking about how that requirement still should exist in 3e along with the "e6 is what you get the moment you're 100 years old"

>> No.36676569

Do you guys give flamboyant anime supermove names and special effects to your signature combos?

I had a dragon-blooded who used Five-Dragon-Force Blow with Ebony Spur Technique using a dire lance and threw down an attack of 50 damage for ten motes from horseback which usually was enough to make them go totemic from excellency use.

He would ride a circle around the enemy with lightning speed so that it would try to turn to face him and then use the momentum garnered to make his mount broadside almost horizontal while slicing into the side of the foe while shouting; "Too slow! Blazing Claw of Hesiesh!"

>> No.36676983

>>36676569
I give flamboyant anime supermove combos to literally everything my character does. Only way to do it.

>> No.36677154

>>36676983
Do you name them?

>> No.36677167

>>36677154
What, you don't name your combos?

>> No.36677177

>>36677167
Does your character shout out the names of the combos?

>> No.36677190

>>36677177
Its happened. Mostly as a joke.

>> No.36677263

What tiers are all the playable races at?

Is it something like:
Solaroids
Lunars
DB/Sids
Everything else?

>> No.36677296

>>36677263
Tier one is mostly just the pure solars. Abyssals and Green Sun Princes are more limited than those so they're around the other Celestial Exalts such as Lunars and Sidereals.
Dragonblooded tier is also generally inhabited by Raksha Nobles.

Alchemicals are Celestial tier.
Mountain Folk and Dragon Kings are DB or lower IIRC.

Mortals is not a playable splat tier.

>> No.36677320

>>36677296
Thought Raksha were as easily defined in tier as the Wyald is, since they're either useless as fuck or broken as fuck

>> No.36677330

>>36677296
So:
Solars
Celestials + Alchemicals
Raksha/DBs > Mountain Folk/Dragon Kings
Mortals

>> No.36677346

>>36677296
Mortals are playable, just you can't play a typical exalted campaign with them. You basically treat it like extra-fantasy world of darkness.

>> No.36677385

>>36677320
Aside from the cheese exploits, they are kinda DB tier in general function. Got the same "cool stuff that does not actually work against anybody important" thing too.

>> No.36677391

>>36677330
Yeah. Spirits are all over the scale and are not a playable splat.

>> No.36677421

>>36677385
What can Fae cheese with? Social cheese or combat cheese though?

>> No.36677485

>>36677421
Sheer confusion cheese.

>> No.36677525

>>36677421
Well for starters something like up there >>36660293

But it's pretty easy to set up so that you completely roll over anybody who can't stunt or magic. So even if a Solar would wreck your ass if he gets his hands on you, you can fuck up everything around him if you evade him personally.

>> No.36677621

>>36677421
>>36677485
Raksha can drain your WP in a heartbeat with some of their shoddily written charms. They can also spawn countless of heavily mutated god-blood level minions at almost no cost.

In pure combat cheese, they have a charm to drops any attack's damage pool to attacker's Essence for 4 motes without a flaw of invulnerability (before hardness), immunity to all non-stunted and non-charm attacks (and +Essence to DVs against even those) and can get ridiculous unarmed weapons through mutations.

An essence 2 heroic raksha commoner could easily have a Dexterity+Martial Arts pool of 5 dex, 7 MA, 5 specialty: Unarmed (Yes, raksha can get 5 in a specialty) and a natural weapons that are something like...

Unarmed attack: Speed 5, Accuracy +2, Damage +4L, Defense +1, Rate 7, Range 15, poison: (5L/action, 3, -/-, -3).

He rolls 19 dice without spending essence. Throw in the broken Whirling Pestle Kata we talked bout in the last thread for 8 attacks for 2 motes at range 15.

---

If a target doesn't have shaping defenses active, raksha can wreck them in the most glorious ways. Here's one of my favorites.

Having All-Consuming God-Monster Stance active (duration: one story) with Numinous Heart-Stopping Power and Calling Upon the Dragon's Ire the raksha's essence is raised by 2 for the calculations and effects of raksha charms.

Then, you simply fall in love with your enemy or nurture a similar positive intimacy toward them. Done? Great. Now let's stab ourselves.

When an attack supplemented with Subtle Breath of Ruin successfully strikes a target, it does no damage, instead inflicting all rolled damage to another character within (Cup x 10) yards for whom the target has a positive Intimacy. That's post-soak damage. This Charm may not be used to conduct damage onto characters of higher-Essence than the Charm's target, but our Essence is two higher than normal so even tougher guys will be affected.

Welcome to Raksha warfare.

>> No.36677703

>>36677621
Any social shenanigans with Raksha? I heard they're supposed to be the focus ore than combat

>> No.36677720

>>36676983
I meant to say "flamboyant anime supermove names"
I'm terribly sorry

>> No.36677733

>>36677621
Raksha are crazy. Crazy fun.

Also,
>They can also spawn countless of heavily mutated god-blood level minions at almost no cost.
Explain?

>> No.36677774

>>36677703
Well, the core charm is Beguilement. 6m 1wp 1g scenelong;

"The Fair Folk use this Charm to instill obedience in Creation-born through nothing more than their natural élan. While this Charm is active all of the raksha’s social attacks are considered to be a form of unnatural mental influence costing one more point of Willpower than normal to resist, to a maximum of 5."

Some tricks you can do;

Poisoned Whispers is 8m 1wp;

"This Charm supplements a Presence-
based social attack intended to undermine one of the target’s Intimacies. If successful, the raksha may instantly invert a positive Intimacy into a negative Intimacy with a connotation of her choice, or vice-versa. This unnatural mental influence costs three Willpower to resist."

You could combo that with Antagonist-Naming Technique that costs 1m;

"The World-Devouring Warlord cannot go to war without a proper nemesis, and so it is imperative that he begin his march by producing a suitable foe. This Charm may supplement any social or physical attack. If successful, the attack causes the target to immediately gain in Intimacy of enmity toward the raksha. This unnatural Emotion effect may be resisted for two points of Willpower."

And if you want to make it even worse, throw down Undetectable Lie for 7m, 1g.

"The raksha weaves the stuff of dreams into her words, coating them in the affirmation of every desire in the hearts of those who hear her speak. Listeners ache to believe her, no matter how absurd or deadly the lies that pass between her lips. This Charm supplements a (Manipulation + Presence)-based social attack, making it both unblockable and undodgeable. With Staff 6+, Essence 6+, this Charm may also supplement (Ma- nipulation + Performance)-based social attacks."

So yes, unblockable undodgeable Presence-based social attack that costs 7 WP to resist that makes the target first get the Intimacy of enmity toward the raksha that flips around to be a positive intimacy.

>> No.36677798

>>36677774
Is this intentional? It feels very chaotic and crazy, which is what I feel like the Wyald is about.

Man though, thanks.

>> No.36677806

>>36677774
Wouldn't it be up to the ST to decide how the intimacy would be handled then? Because it seems like in that case it would be a "Friendly rival" intimacy rather than anything.
What would the dice pool be for that attack anyway?

>> No.36677834

>>36677774
The hell is 1g?

>> No.36677847

>>36677834
One unit of Gossamer.

>> No.36677852

>>36677847
Man, I need to read up on Fae shit. Got no clue what the fuck they're about

>> No.36677859

So, as soon as 3rd ed comes out, a friend's gonna be running it. He's good with Exalted, although I'll admit I barely know a damn thing about the lore.

Been flipping through the leaked PDF for a rough estimate of how to build my dude, was hoping to make a dawn-caste Kamen Rider

Chargen is going to be fucking tough, though, because all of my points are going to be split between giving him a handful of martial arts abilities and the artifacts he's gonna need. What I was hoping to give him was a handful of magic armor pieces, each one giving him some special RIDER KICK type moves, all tied in by the belt buckle that summons his armor.

Is something like that possible? I want him to be able to transform into full Rider-mode off the bat, but I'm worried that his rider suit's gonna eventually go unused as his actual abilities just improve

>> No.36677867

>>36677852
Gossamer is basicly solid dreamstuff.
It's creativity given tangible form.

>> No.36677878

>>36677867
Nigga you what? How the fuck do they even get that shit?

>> No.36677885

>>36677733
Awakened Dream Manufacture is a Simple charm that costs 3m and with a Diff 5 Intelligence+Socialize roll you can craft a minion that "has traits roughly comparable to a God-Blood (but still not true self-awareness) or an animal comparable to a tyrant lizard. The minion represents Hazard •••."

With Shape-Forged servant the raksha can spend gossamer when forging a servant in order to grant it wyld mutations at a rate of three mutation points per gossamer spent.

There is no limit to the amount of mutations and you can stockpile gossamer, so you could give it something like 30 mutation points and stack up on size, armor and attack mutations.

Go to the Wyld, craft a few dozen Str 9, Dex 3, Stamina 9 minions that fly with 12 health levels and +10B/L natural soak on top of gossamer superheavy plate (no weight or mobility penalty) wielding exceptional gossamer weapons (gossamer weapons get +1 to two traits on top of the exceptional bonus).

Since they are your possessions and permanent works of glamour you can stow and withdraw them from Elsewhere for 1m.

Meet a Creationborn, summon twelve superhuman giants reflexively even in Creation. They die? Oh well, took you five minutes to craft them.

>>36677806
For a noble, you could get 8 Manipulation + 7 Presence + 5 specialty. Unsightly Rigor Approach gets rid of your Appearance cap and you can rock App 8 with relative ease on top of all that. You could also use some Assumption shenanigans to add +Essence dice to the roll and use a wyld stunt dice from the Style background to ensure 3 pt stunts.

>> No.36677889

>>36677878
Nigger do you even Raksha?
They eat dreams, virtues, and souls.
How do you think they get it?

>> No.36677924

>>36677889
Shiiiiiiit. I need to play these fuckers some time, they sound hype as fuck

>> No.36677926

>>36677878
Gossamer can be harvested from the Virtues, Willpower and dreams of Creation-born. You can also gain gossamer for tying your Motivation to the Wyld and working toward it, or my favorite method of Bedlam enhancing charms - some of the coolest and most flavorful charms I know.

Bedlam is the state of specific long-lasting Limit break that occurs when a raksha has exhausted their virtue channels for whatever reason. Valor bedlam, for example, makes them meek and paranoid, unable to enter into conflict without spending WP. Once they've spent WP in this way as many times as their Valor, they re-emerge.

Spectacular Insanity
"When the raksha enters bedlam, she can spend five motes to instantly recover temporary Willpower and gain new gossamer equal to the Virtue with which the bedlam is associated. This action is reflexive."

Bedlam Masterworks
"When a raksha who has entered bedlam emerges from that state, his player rolls (Intelligence + Craft [Glamour]). Success yields one or more weird and disturbing craftworks that collectively contain a number of gossamer points equal to the total successes on the roll. This gossamer can be claimed either by ravishing or simply by smashing the items recovered.
At the Storyteller’s discretion, an exceptional number of successes might result in an actual artifact with magical properties or perhaps an item of oneiromancy."

Yes. Raksha can get so crazy that when they snap out of it, they find themselves pulling dreamstuff sex toys out of their ass. Or sometimes a magic sword or a spell. Made of crazy.

>> No.36677952

>>36677926
Being in bedlam can also have its own perks, for example the charm Ambrosial Ascension grants the following benefit;

"Those Fair Folk who have learned this Charm filter the chaotic energies invoked by bedlam through the lens of their Compassion. Characters are forbidden to impede or attack the raksha when she is in bedlam unless she first acts upon them during the scene in a hostile manner (by making a social attack, a physical attack, threatening one of their Intimacies, or something similar). This unnatural mental influence costs two Willpower to ignore for the rest of the scene."

>> No.36677995

>>36677952
>>36677926
Yup, that guy ain't playing a Fae this side of the century. Thanks again dude

>> No.36678308

>>36677926
I don't even...

>> No.36678661
File: 198 KB, 546x500, Twilight Rider.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
36678661

>>36677859

The armour will probably be artefact armour, plate I reckon. If it's rated three dots or higher You can give it evocations, which are their own power set. You'll only need one artefact, instead of several pieces, it's less mote intensive and an Evocation Array can have a potentially infinite amount of evocations. On of these Evocations could be used to turn your armour into a belt buckle, thus alleviating the need for that artefact.

If you can't find a martial art you like, Brawl is powerful in it's own right and you can simply refluff the attacks as kicks. It offers little in the way of defence, but you've got armour for that.

There's also Hauberk Summoning Gesture to store armour elsewhere or summon it onto your body. Glorious Solar Plate allow you to create armour out of nothing with it's own Evocations, you can literally be Kamen Rider if you take Resistance as your Supernal ability and start with that charm, you'll have absolutely no need for anything else.

Just out of curiosity what caste are you going to play? Zenith seems thematically appropriate, between the "Detect Injustice" Anima power and the spread of caste abilities.

>> No.36678925

>>36677621

>immunity to all non-stunted and non-charm attacks

Mind you, in exalted, all that really means is 'Immunity to mooks' as everyone is using charms or stunting or both.

>> No.36678948

>>36677885

Oh the topic of such things: I'm still working, on and off, on a Raksha knight in shining armour. Combat and Presence/Appearance Social.

But holy hell the charms are a bit painful to work through. Any notable ones for a combat Raksha who doesn't want to pokemon (Beyond 'learn CMA')

>> No.36678987

>>36677859
>>36678661
>Kamen Rider
>Anything but Infernal

>> No.36678992

>>36678987

Despite the image having a Twilight, I never mentioned a caste in the post. Besides, we only have Solars to work with.

>> No.36679076

>>36678992
Sure you did.
>Zenith seems thematically appropriate, between the "Detect Injustice" Anima power and the spread of caste abilities.

>> No.36679106

>>36678948
>raksha learning CMA
Anything is possible in Creation and PCs always tend to be outliers in the setting, but man the odds of this are low.

>> No.36679109

>>36679076

Huh, so I did.

>> No.36679132

>>36679106

I THINK it's legal. They learn Martial Arts 'As Dragonblooded'. I THINK that means they can initiate into Celestial.

I will freely admit I might be wrong though.

>> No.36679211

>>36679132
Pretty sure they can only assume the ability to learn TMA by the book (and it does require an assumption charm) and learning charms while assumed is kinda weird for them.

>> No.36679283

>>36679211

Well, it says like Dragonblooded...I suppose it's something to bring up with a GM?

If they can't, that's going to mess up my planned Fae pretty hard as I don't think they have much in the way or raw combat charms without going pokemon.

>> No.36679299

>>36678948
Beyond the usual Glorious Hero Form for +attributes, Surpassing Excellence for 5-dot specialties and Fantastic Grotesquerie Shell for whatever wyld mutations you might want, here are some of their best combat options;

=Defense=
Writhing Ego Invasion -> Pyre of Dreams Defense (The Dreaming version works for physical attacks). 4m perfect soak against anything that doesn't ignore hardness.

DV pumpers in Bastion of Self (Sword) for +Ess to DV and Rarefied Air of Victory for +1 shield bonus.

Radiance of the Invincible Warrior is a flurry breaker. Unconquerable Truth removes the unexpected quality from an attack. Defining the Parameters of Battle removes the unblockable or undodgeable quality from an incoming attack.

All-Inclusive Nightmare Defense disarms the enemy as a counterattack when you defend against them with your DV.

=Offense=
Sorrowful Firmament Resonance turns an attack either unblockable or undodgeable.

Impinging Web of Dreams lets you reroll a physical attack.

Knife-Hand Dream is a cheap +5 damage (and a source of aggravated damage at higher Essence) and a prerequisite to the natural soak boosters you might want.

=Other=
Pick a Shaping Stance that works best for you, they've got amazing stuff there. Staff Style is best-suited for a solo fighter;

Deeper into Trouble lets you taunt enemies to attack you. If they don't, they must spend WP.

Laughing Monster Stance lets you redirect attacks that you defend against with your DV at any other target, including the attacker (using the same pool, charms, etc).

Inauspicious Moment for Attack makes enemies unable to target you with attacks until their DV has refreshed three times if you beat their Join Battle with Cha+Occult. Enemies can't WP out of it and you're free to beat them up during that time without breaking the effect.

Hope that helps.

>> No.36679312

>>36679283
>without going pokemon.
Why would you ever want to go without pokemon?

>> No.36679318

>>36679106
>>36679132
>>36679211
>>36679283
The official raksha CMA initiation charm is in Errata and is perfectly legal rules wise.

On top of that, there is nothing that would stop them from learning Immaculate or First Age Enlightenment charms beyond low probability of it ever happening.

>> No.36679343

>>36679312

Mostly because the concept is 'Knight in Shining Armour'. The only Wyld Shaped Creature they are going to have is a horse (With stats on par with a Tyrant Lizard)

>>36679299

Thanks a lot. That's helping quite a bit. As it was I was mostly looking into Martial Arts as I already know them.

>> No.36679504

>>36679343
If you want a really shining armor, you might want to look at Translucent Dream Sheathing Technology to enchant your gear.

You could have a Perfect enchantment on your armor that says; "Only those of pure heart and love for all that is living can pierce this armor." Anyone who does not fulfill those conditions and attacks you is unable to harm you unless they spend a willpower point and even then they suffer an internal -4 wyld penalty to attack you. Those who fulfill the condition get +1 to their rolls, on the other hand.

I'm not exactly sure if the penalty from multiple glamours stack, but if they do you could possibly also have a cloak on top of that with the fantasy of "This cloak's brilliance blinds everyone who does not accept the wearer as their true king" and slap an another -4 on them when they try to fight you.

And maybe have your own battle screen as an enchanted territory that you conjure into Creation that has the fantasy; "Only honorable one on one duels can be fought on this sacred ground". Would keep extras and such from interfering and if someone refused to challenge you they'd eat the associated penalty.

Just some ideas.

>> No.36679547

>>36679504
>I'm not exactly sure if the penalty from multiple glamours stack

I'd be inclined to say they don't, since otherwise there's no point in the descriptor "wyld penalty."

Not that Exalted has a general "same typed bonuses don't stack" rule, but it does have a general "if something seems pointless, its purpose was probably lost in editing" rule.

>> No.36679643

>>36679504

Those are pretty good ideas. I'll look into them.

Likely avoid the 'True king' stuff but pure of heart and literally making Right Makes Might apply sounds fantastic for a storybook knight come to life.

I'm working on them because:
A) I really enjoyed Don Quitoxe and The Nonexistent Knight
B) I kinda wanted to do a twist on a Fae other than the normal rather villainous one. A story is incomplete without a hero.

>> No.36679761

>>36679643
Yeah, you can define the conditions as freely as you want (with ST permission of course). Those were just some ideas of how penalties might overlay.

Cool concept. Be careful of Bedlam, though.

>> No.36679802

>>36679761

Oh yeah. But that's a general thing with Fae in general. Valor shattering is just really, really embarrassing. Compassion is more tragic.

>> No.36680082

New thread!

>>36680073

>> No.36680383

>>36677263
>>36677296
>>36677330

Do keep in mind that you shouldn't think with tiers in EX3. A mortal, dragonblooded, or spirit can beat a Solar with the right circumstances.

A Dragonblooded may have a charm that's more powerful than a Solar charm too.

Arguing this is against tier will only make you look silly.

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