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[ERROR] No.35982994 [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

Discuss Fantasy Flight. Worlds is this week

>tfw AGOT is probably going to die
>tfw FFG has no clue how to handle how needlessly complicated the rules are

>> No.35983026

>>35982994
>tfw AGOT is probably going to die
What? How? Why? The LCG or one of the countless other games?

>> No.35983165

>>35983026
The LCG

I'm a pessimist so I'm expecting them to fuck up somehow, like a giant reboot (which they did going from CCG to LCG and lost a lot of players), but it'll likely be rotation for chapter cycles at tournament level play

There's some chatter at Worlds about a reboot though, which is distressing. I got a lot of cards for the LCG

>> No.35983230

IT BEGINS

Time for LCG State of the Union

>> No.35983319

>>35983230

Wasn't last years FFG state of the union just them holding some X-Wing models and going "IT PRINTS MONEY!"

Like, X-Wing made them more money last year than all their other things combined.

>> No.35983358

>>35983319
Probably, I wasn't there

This one is specific to the LCGs though, which they've been running forever (the ones I've played are mad fun). Thrones is actually in dire need of some changes. The rules are insanely complicated (look up moribund and the differences between passive/constant/lasting), and the FAQ/errata list is way too long, it has flowcharts for its flowcharts

>> No.35983373

>>35983165
I really didn't follow the whole thing, so I'll have to ask a few question
>which they did going from CCG to LCG and lost a lot of players
Why exactly did they lose people? I mean, on the whole, LCG is a lot nicer for someone to play and keep up to date.

>it'll likely be rotation for chapter cycles at tournament level play
I know a healthy tournament scene helps a game keep healthy, but how bad is it exactly? Personally, I'm only looking into it for casual group-play.

>some chatter at Worlds about a reboot
What kind of Reboot are we talking about here? Total-All-Your-Cards-Wont-Carry-Over Reboot?

>Time for LCG State of the Union
Hell yeah it is.
Then again, I'm not exactly happy with their offering, so it wouldn't hit me very hard.

>> No.35983414

THANK GOD

>> No.35983421

>>35983373
when old content is invalidated by the change, people get mad

>> No.35983490

>>35983373
>Why exactly did they lose people?
A lot of people were pissed because they had many hundreds of dollars in cards, none of which could be used in the new format unless they were reprinted
>it'll likely be rotation for chapter cycles at tournament level play
It's probably fine, there'll be a breadth of cards available, and it'll make for some cool new builds for a bunch of the games
>some chatter at Worlds about a reboot
not anymore

>> No.35983605

>>35982994
Reboot confirmed

AGOT is dead

>> No.35983625

>>35983490
>not anymore

You spoke too soon

>> No.35983630

>>35982994

wtffffffff

>> No.35983685

>Another reboot

They're going to lose even more players than they did from the switch to LCG

Fuck the HBO show

>> No.35983869

>>35983630

>> No.35983973

Thanks for the live posts.
>>35983630
Is this the "your old cards are worthless" kind of edition?

>> No.35984247

>>35983973

Seems so.

>> No.35984303

My store stocks hundreds of 1e products. I've always wanted to get into the game as a somewhat static boardgame. Bargains will be had.

But, uh, sorry for all you established players. That sucks.

>> No.35984306

>>35983973
Ayup

Not happy. They did this before and lost a bunch of players, why do it again? FOR THE SAME GAME?

>> No.35984363

>>35984306

I am certainly quitting Thrones. I bet the new card design will be as bloated as LotR and Netrunner, too.

>> No.35984458

>>35984363
I haven't played either of those, but for all its merits, Thrones did need some work. Moribund was such an absurd rule and the timing was too complicated

I'll probably still play, but I wish they hadn't nullified THE ENTIRE FUCKING CARD POOL

>> No.35984539

>>35984303
The melee (3-6 players) is mad fun, but a lot of established players don't like it and prefer joust, even though joust is just a bog-standard 1v1 card game at its core. There's a lot more deal brokering in melee

But yeah, I'm not too happy about this reboot. I get it, both for marketing reasons (HBO show is mad popular) and for the sake of streamlining gameplay, but it still sucks

>> No.35984650

>>35984458

Agreed, Thrones was crazy bloated and complicated rules wise. I just wish the kept the card design and fixed the rules. That way some of the older cards could make it to the next version.

I just really like how the cards look. Now they will probably remove the border and add some leaves or some shit around the cards. Just very busy card design on Netrunner and LOTR.

>> No.35984703

>>35984306
Any official word on that? I mean, it's not like I don't trust anonymous people on the internet, but...

>> No.35984736

>>35984650

You just can't handle my sexiness.

>> No.35984742

>tfw just got playgroup to enjoy Game of Thrones
>tfw no one wants to deal with another reboot knowing that FFG will just shit on us again in a few years
>tfw one less thing to spend money on

mixed feels

>> No.35984769

>>35984703
http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_news.asp?eidn=5184

Some details in
http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_news.asp?eidn=5178

>> No.35984781

>>35984703

They're redesigning the game, dude. How much clearer do you need it?

>> No.35984848

How can one company be so constantly retarded and still make money? I swear these morons are reaching AEG tier of trying to make their fans hate them.

>y rotation when we r kan reboot
>lol k
>buy new game guys we wont do this a 3rd time ;^)

>> No.35984905

>>35984848
>y rotation when we r kan reboot
They give a fairly detailed answer to that in >>35984769.

>> No.35984944

>>35984905

They gave excuses, I didn't see reasons.

>> No.35984960

>>35984944
What's the difference?

>> No.35984985

>>35984650
They might look like the alternate art cards for AGOT, which actually look very nice, even if they're a little hard to read

Y'know, the more I think about it, it could be OK. I'm still not 100% pleased, but I think it's for the best. The game was a mess, rules wise and really needed help. I like that multi-house decks and big cost characters are more encouraged in the new one. I hope they keep the house keywords (except Stalwart and Infamy, those are shit)

>> No.35985018

This reboot has to at least be fueled by the immense popularity of the show. AGOT is one of their oldest properties, and the other, newer LCGs have surpassed it. They want to cash in.

>> No.35985133

>>35984960
>we get into a car accident
Ohh sorry it's just that I was texting and I'm on my period and I'm already late for work and I've been really stressed out.

Those may or may not be REASONS why the accident happened, but none of them excuse you from responsibility.

>I'm sick and I need to see the doctor,so I need to miss work/school
That EXCUSES you from the normal consequences of having missed work or school or whatever.

>> No.35985172

>>35985018

Should've acted on that earlier. Show is getting progressively worse, and some people, including me, bought a bunch of cards due to the show. Now they fucked us over.

>> No.35985206

>>35983685
>Fuck the HBO show
Commit suicide, please.

>> No.35985243

>>35985133
Your definitions would probably be better if they didn't use "reason" and "excuse" in the opposite way than >>35984944 was using them.

Anyway. "This game is full of bloat and bad hacks that can't be cleared without making the old cards obsolete" is an acceptable explanation.

>> No.35985262

>>35985243
Yeah that dude is wrong in his usage of the words, that happens sometimes. Most people don't know what they're saying most of the time.

>> No.35985312

To say I'm ambivalent just doesn't quite how mixed I feel about this.

>> No.35985330

>>35985243
But anyway I'm not a person who gets caught up in the sunken cost fallacy. Change is good. Game mechanics aren't like music or literature where you get these "classics" that shouldn't be touched.

As a game gets burned in, we see certain effects are more powerful than they're costed. Or that the math works out some how that you don't have enough variation or whatever.

>> No.35985363

I wonder if the deck archetypes will carry over for the houses.

>> No.35985398

Wait, shit, they're releasing a new edition of the aSoIaF card game? Shit, I just started buying the current stuff.

Should I just wait for the new edition before I sing too much into the current one? How will they be changing the game? They didn't really describe anything new in the announcement.

>> No.35985481

>>35985398
>Should I just wait for the new edition before I sing too much into the current one?
Probably, unless you want to take the >>35984303 approach and grab the somewhat worse, non-living edition on the cheap.
>How will they be changing the game? They didn't really describe anything new in the announcement.
Some details in
http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_news.asp?eidn=5178

>> No.35985489

>>35985398
I would wait. Maybe just buy a core set/print proxies for decks to get a feel for how it plays. They're going to be changing a fair amount, based on the information given at the conference.

They're going to streamline the hell out of it, which frankly, is very much a necessary change.

This is currently what a typical AGOT round looks like. And this all of this can and will happen up to six times, because the game supports six players. SIX TIMES.

I will show you frameworks and player actions in my next slide.

>> No.35985515

>>35985489
This is what framework actions and player actions look like, and this doesn't even cover the nightmarish rabbit hole that is moribund.

>> No.35985541

>>35985481
>non-living edition on the cheap.
This can actually be tough to find. And the Five Kings Edition was probably the best iteration of the game. Every house had competitive, varied builds. But there was some major power creep at that point in the game.

>> No.35985588

>>35985489
>>35985515
>those flowcharts

I have been playing this game wrong for years

>> No.35985595

>>35985541
Well you don't have to buy every single card to get a well-rounded boardgame/cube.

>> No.35985639

I'm bummed about no Legacy support. I know the current cards fairly well, and while it's neat to (re)learn a new game, I hate to have to abandon ideas that I've wanted to try for a while

>> No.35985713

FFG thread? Then here's one: why is the binding on all the Dark Heresy 2nd Edition books so shit? What happened? I've had mine for a month and it's just about to come completely undone.

>> No.35985745

>>35985541

He's talking about the current version of AGOT being 1e. And there will be alot of sales for it once the reboot comes around...

>> No.35985785

>>35985713
shush, we are discussing the death of AGOT

>> No.35985827

>tfw my Thrones group was always one of the smallest at my FLGS
>tfw it's probably only going to get smaller

>> No.35985864

>>35984848
What's AEG?

And honestly, as it stands now, the game is stupidly complicated. It needed something to fix it, instead they just kept patching band-aids. This was probably the best option.

>> No.35985901

Elder Mok Apothecary master race reporting in.

>giving potions to bros
>getting tons of fatigue back
>free action attack giving even more potions to bros

>> No.35986141

They did it. Based FFG; this is the card I always wanted. Switching to Inquisition as soon as pack six drops. Can't wait to show TRUE FAITH.

>> No.35986239

>>35985481
>>35985489

>new factions

Fuck yes, this is exactly what I wanted to hear. It would be nice to have all nine major houses as their own factions. We should at the very least get an independent Tyrell faction.

I have the starter set and Stark expansion for the current edition so maybe I'll pick up the Baratheon expansion to continue and get a feel for the game but hold off after there.

>> No.35986287

>>35986239
Baratheon is fun. They are best at power rush. Stark is the murder house.

Shit I really hope the houses' strengths carry over. I'll miss Greyjoy choke if they don't. Choke was fun, if a bit assholish.

Then again, I didn't play Martell, the TRUE asshole house. Fuck Martell.

>> No.35986408

>>35986287

I just really can't overstate how happy I am to see they're adding factions (although I suppose I'll have to hold my judgment until I actually see what those factions are).

One of my main complaints with current aSoIaF games including both the FFG card and board games is that as they focus primarily on the events of the books they tend to not allow for playable Tully, Arryn or even Tyrell. While I get that they want to focus on the events and characters from the books because a) that's where the majority of material is to be drawn from and b) that's what the players want they don't necessarily have to assume the same progression of events as in canon. I mean, we know that Renly never sent Rickon and Shaggydog to eat Joffrey but in theory something like that could happen in the card game.

In that mind, it'd also be cool to see some characters from before the events of the books. We have a few from Robert's Rebellion and iirc an Aegon I wouldn't say no to some of the players from the Dance of Dragons or some She-Wolves of Winterfell.

>> No.35986485

>>35986408
The current game has sub-archetypes for Tully out of Stark and Tyrell out of Baratheon

And man you should see some of the decks I have made. My favorite was a Drowned Men/Baratheon Asshai deck that absolutely obliterated your deck and hand

And some pre-book characters do show up. Rhaegar, Arthur Dayne, Lyanna Stark and Balerion the Black are some cards in the current game

>> No.35986558

I want it to be good. I really, really, want this to be good.

>> No.35986584

>>35986485
>The current game has sub-archetypes for Tully out of Stark and Tyrell out of Baratheon

Yeah, I know they're represented as subfactions, I'd just personally like to see them as their own completely independent factions.

>> No.35986660

>>35986558
I have faith in Eric Lang. He may have been the original designer for the CCG version of Thrones

>>35986584
The issue with a separate Tyrell faction would be that the character pool for Bara is so small, so they draw on Tyrell for support, design-wise. It'd be cool if they broke off, but it'd really limit Bara's options.

I don't even know what "new" factions they would use. Night's Watch and Wildlings are already well-supported as neutrals, Dothraki runs out of Targ

>> No.35986673

>>35984848
>How can one company be so constantly retarded and still make money?

They just need to be less retarded than the competition, and their product offering is generally pretty unique and they don't tend to horribly bastardize the licenses they get.

Most of the customers playings LCGs probably aren't drawn by Magic (or are ex-Magic players), and likewise their X-wing customer base probably isn't the sort to give GW money.

>> No.35986683

I'm going to have to update this next year. Maybe.

>> No.35986778

>>35986673
I play Magic but only casually, Thrones is my main game though. The rules are clunky but the core mechanics are fantastic, I like the challenge mechanic more than Magic's equivalent. I also love the planning that goes into it, gauging when to play a particular plot or broker a fragil alliance, and having it either win the game for you or blow up spectacularly in your face. I've never gotten that with Magic.

>> No.35986859

>>35986778
Exactly, hence the response to >>35984848; FFG's really not that bad when you consider the competition.

They make money and are doing well because generally their products are usually very solid, have excellent customer support, and provide usually fairly timely errata (in other words, basic professionalism).

Professionalism is definitely becoming more common in the tabletop gaming industry, but it's kind of depressing how much that it still lacks. Look at TSR, look at the Catalyst blow-up with Coleman, etc. etc.

>> No.35986923

>>35986859
I'll give them the professionalism bit. They've definitely gotten better in recent years too.

There was a VICIOUS Martell deck earlier this year that they errata'd a key card for very quickly. I played against the deck and it was pure evil, I literally couldn't do anything to stop it, save reaching across the table and smacking the guy using the deck.

>Look at TSR, look at the Catalyst blow-up with Coleman, etc. etc.
I wish I knew what these were. I honestly don't do a whole lot with other card games outside of Thrones. Kind of depressing, really, considering how much is out there.

>> No.35986951

Everyone involved in a complex game, especially its game designers, has a list of Things I Would Do With A Reboot. MaRo would give his firstborn son for an MtG reboot - and you know, I'd probably enjoy that game a great deal more than current MtG. ASoIaF was small enough that they could get away with it.

>> No.35987022

>>35986923
TSR owned D&D back in the 80s, and collapsed in large part due to mismanagement. Lots of ugly personal battles too over the intellectual ownership of D&D (they shut Gygax out).

Catalyst Game Labs (CGL) owns Battletech and Shadowrun. Back in 2010 it was revealed that one of their founders had basically embezzled all the company's capital (and was driving around in a shiny new car, to boot!).

>> No.35987112

>>35986951
They are small enough, but it'll still piss off a lot of people. I was mad when I first heard about the reboot, as a knee-jerk reaction, but I've calmed down and realized that it really is for the best. The game is too damn complicated right now.

On the other hand, melee is still going to be a valid format in 2nd Edition, which I love, joust can eat shit, it's boring and the game was originally designed around melee

>> No.35987150

>>35985489
>>35985515
>stupidly complex flowchart for a single response action
>inside of another stupidly complex flowchart for the main game
Holy fuck is this real

>> No.35987205

>>35987150
that's what happens when a game gets this old

>> No.35987233

>>35987150
Hey, we all went through that phase.

>> No.35987298

>>35987233
The least they could do was lay it out NOT LIKE A FUCKING TREASURE MAP

>> No.35987354

>>35987150
To be fair, every somewhat elaborate game looks stupidly complex when you make a flowchart that includes every single possibility. Fucking Munchkin can be made to look like each turn takes an afternoon.

>> No.35987659

>>35987354
>every single possibility
Those flowcharts are how Thrones plays out most of the time though. They are there as a necessity, not an accommodation for all possible outcomes. And with 3+ players it's even more of a nightmare.

>> No.35987714

lol the AGOT community is imploding over this

most seem to like it, some fucking HATE it

One guy wishes they kept moribund

>> No.35988377

>>35982994
Will they be doing anything harsh to change netrunner? I want to get into it but it's so fucking daunting I just don't know where to begin and would hate to shoot myself in the foot by buying stuff I wont use or need.

>> No.35988432

>>35988377
Game of thrones was 12 years old

Netrunner is still fresh and the rules were more refined, so that is not as big of a concern

>> No.35988475

>>35988377
Just rotation starting in 2017. So it'll be 5 pack cycles that are legal, with new cycles subbing out for the oldest ones

So 1-5 are legal for a year, then 6 comes out and the first cycle is no longer legal for tournament play

You'll be fine though, Netrunner is much newer than Thrones, which really needed work

I'm still very ambivalent about a Thrones reset. They did it once to change format, now they're doing it again to fix rules, so they've fucked over two groups of players with significant investments in the game. That's pretty shitty.

>> No.35988515

>>35987659
Same thing happens with Netrunner.

>> No.35988548

>FFG announces new card pack cycle for Thrones months ago in light of upcoming "big Worlds announcement!!"
>Planning to reboot the game and nullify the entire Thrones card pool by this time next year

I wonder how many packs from the new cycle they'll sell

>> No.35988550

>>35988377

I guess Core + Big Boxes should be safe buys in the long run. Maybe get the important alt art stuff from other players if you don't want to get datapacks?

I do hope the IDs will be left alone though. It would suck if a whole bunch of them get retired.

>> No.35988597

So, I'm looking at warhammer conquest and it seems neat

is the core box set enough to have continuous fun?

>> No.35988619

>>35988597
You need 3 of them to make good, complete decks. Take that as you will.

The game is fun though, from what I played.

>> No.35988688

>>35988548
I'll buy them, if only for legacy appeal and deck building options with friends

Shit man, I felt OK about this reboot but now I'm not so sure

>> No.35989121

>>35988548
I imagine they have a lot of players who are basically "subscribed" to the game and will buy the final sets for completionist reasons if nothing else, especially when the new edition isn't available yet. And for the competitive folks, there's one more year of tournaments.

>> No.35989991

>>35989121

While we're on the topic of aSoIaF does anyone know if there's a torrent for the 'Game of Thrones Edition' of the SIFRP campaign guide yet?

>> No.35990272

>>35987714

Fuck that guy, I'm pretty unhappy over the changes but Moribund is fucking AIDs.

>mfw I won a game at regionals the last year of the CCG with moribund
>mfw went on to win the whole thing
>mfw tainted forever by that shitty rules interaction

>> No.35990327

My only big annoyance with the change is that the card pool will be so small. The switch from CCG to LCG was terrible because we went from lots of options neat decks fun stuff to 4 houses, each with maybe one decent deck. And it stayed that way for so long before the game was fun again. I like the idea of a change, the game needs an update, I just hope it can survive it.

>> No.35992265

>>35990327
The core set will probably be bigger than the last one, and hopefully they do 3x of each card like the chapter packs

They're going to lose a good chunk of players though, myself included

>> No.35993273

>>35982994

>> No.35993398

>>35986558

WHY oh why did they go with the shitty videogame aesthetic instead of something new?

Fuck me.

>> No.35993481

>>35993398

Because they only had the license for that not the old Microprose game or anything else I'd imagine?

>> No.35993535

>>35993481

Even if they had the license to this one they could still make the graphics new?
Maybe?

>> No.35994317

>>35993535
Because creating market confusion with ne cover art is bad?

>> No.35994340

>>35982994
Does this mean we will finally get a comp. rules?

>> No.35995541

>>35994340
That'd be great

>> No.35995844

>>35984742
To be fair, I'm not quitting the 1e since it still can be played. I just won't have any new cards to buy.

>> No.35995894

>>35994317
You only need the logo, worked for all their licensed games.

>> No.35997331

So, with regards to conquest LCG: one core set is fine for fun quick games with friends and I need more sets to actually get serious mileage, like X-wing?

>> No.35999068

>>35997331
Most cards in the Conquest core set are 1 offs. Some factions are kinda underpowered if you only have 1 core set, but the game should work out at least.

>> No.35999158

>>35983685
that image is pretty great

>> No.35999559

>>35997331
I actually found owning two Cores for X-Wing more preferable even for casual play. It's just nice to have more of the basic ships to work with.

>> No.35999684

>>35993398
Because the video game was awesome and sold like hot cakes, so the more they can remind people of the connection, the better. They really couldn't have done anything else.

>> No.35999748

>>35983165
The rotation is retarded- instead of something interesting, it's just 'lol can't use old sets anymore'.
They could have had different sets available at different times, different formats, but instead they pick the most boring way of doing it, where old cards become totally useless after a point.

>> No.35999885

Chaos in the Old World is the best board game I've ever played.

>> No.35999962

>>35999885
Then you obviously haven't played Terra Mystica. It should be against the law for one game to have this much wood.

I think FFG's best game is Rex tho; it has enough faces and components dependent on chance and human interaction that in comparison to the expected behavior of say BSG or AGoT.

>> No.36000571

>>35999748
I think FFG is just going to have great games with shitty rulebooks and bad design choices forever

>> No.36002478

So how many Thrones players are on /tg/?

How many new players will the game get from this announcement? Most people seem happy about it.

>> No.36002652

>>36002478
Well, I know my group (6 people) will probably quit, after just eying with really starting the thing. No idea if we'll ever get into it again, but highly unlikely. In the stretch until 2nd edition is actually released, something else will probably catch and bind our attention.

>> No.36002685

>>36002652
I hate the fact that it's going to be a goddamn year until 2E is released, they'd probably retain more players if it was less of a gap, it's going to get so stale now

Where do you play?

>> No.36002972

>>36002685
Austria, locally at each other's houses.

>> No.36003057

>>36002972
Oh I thought you had a meta group

>> No.36004533

I want to see how the new edition plays, but fuck them for nullifying the entire card pool. And double fuck them for absolutely no legacy support.

>> No.36005412

>>35999748
Obviously, because otherwise they would create market confusion that would make it more difficult for new players to get started

>> No.36008236

>>35985901
>Not being Mic Jagger
Elder bard is fantastic. You recover 1 fatigue from the whole party thus recovering you all your fatigue.

>> No.36008253

>>35986141
This game any good?
Are there Nids yet?

>> No.36008483

>>36008253
>This game any good?
It's fun, albeit I only played a couple games during an open gaming night a couple weeks back
>Are there Nids yet?
Not yet

>> No.36009282

>>36008483
Guess I'll stick to SW & LOTR

>> No.36009509

Fuck Martell. Worst house.

>> No.36011987

>>35988619
Is Chaos as crazy as they seem because Heldrake seems really powerful especially in a deck that can very cheaply bring him out with enough cultists/Splintered Path Acolytes

>> No.36012242

It is safe to get into X-Wing right now? Imperial Assault skirmishes don't look deep enough to make a competitive game.

>> No.36012287

I wish they would publish an updated version of Midnight for Pathfinder.
Loved the setting.

>> No.36013583

>>35999885
>>35999962
Ever tried Twilight Imperium? Also Rex is basically a reskinned version of the old Dune game.

>> No.36013675

>>36009509

>Being this mad

>> No.36015095

>>35999962
Terra Mystica is pretty imba, though. So is Rex.

>> No.36016915

>>36013675
The fact that so many restricted cards are out of Martell, coupled with the fact that infinite loops first started out of Martell, is indicative of bad design and favoritism

>> No.36017510

>>36015095
>Rex
>Imba
>Not beating the fuck out of Corrino just to let him know you're not going to put up with his shit

>> No.36017607

>>35993398
Because the videogame's aesthetic was designed after tabletop miniatures games, and therefore makes fucking sense to follow on a TABLETOP GAME, even if it's not really a miniatures game?

>>
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