[ 3 / biz / cgl / ck / diy / fa / g / ic / jp / lit / sci / tg / vr / vt ] [ index / top / reports / report a bug ] [ 4plebs / archived.moe / rbt ]

Due to resource constraints, /g/ and /tg/ will no longer be archived or available. Other archivers continue to archive these boards.Become a Patron!

/tg/ - Traditional Games

View post   

[ Toggle deleted replies ]
[ERROR] No.35489939 [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

>that guy who makes hand to hand only characters for every campaign
>usually hotblooded and challenge everyone and everything to a duel of honor
>even if it makes them next to useless in the setting

>> No.35490183

>not overcoming your enemies solely through the might of your own body

Weapons, armor, and magic are for cowards. True bliss can only be achieved through the path of honing your mind, body, and spirit.

>> No.35490360

>not trying to punch things to death.

>> No.35490392

tell us more about him OP did he win or something?

>> No.35490704

>not using magic to soup up your punches
>not using weapon guantlets

Everyone here is wrong.

>> No.35490761

>Not summoning punchghosts to punch stuff for you instead

>> No.35491468

>Not making fist shaped constructs out of elemental magic

>Not carrying a giant stone fist to throw at people

None of you know how to fist.

>> No.35491912

You can't punch a corrosive atmosphere.

>> No.35491923

Have you tried?

>> No.35491942

Watch me

>> No.35491993

You can if you punch hard enouph to cause fusion!

>> No.35492168

>not metaphorically punching opponents with strong arguments and good rhetoric

Get on my level.

>> No.35492199

>Not physically punching your opponents with strong arguments and good rhetoric scribbled onto your knuckles

>> No.35492270

Not with that attitude.

>> No.35492323

People be giving you shit, OP, but they don't think it be like it is.

Having had to put up with more than my share of WATAAAAAAAAAAA, I can vouch for you.

>> No.35493193

storytiem? What was the most memorable time?

>> No.35493269

Is the setting Scifi with ship-to-ship targeting systems?

>> No.35493312


>> No.35493349

Requesting someone post the tales of Edgardo and Squid. Truly a testament to the power of punching things.

>> No.35493403

Here you are, friendo. :)

>> No.35493404

There's nothing to tell really, my games tend towards the 'be careful and don't be stupid' side of things, so I see my fair share of downtrodden fighters, knights that know they're not going to change the world overnight, wizards that know how dangerous magic can be, and other types of average citizens with a call to arms/adventure.

And then every other game we'll have a guy who didn't bother to make a background and just wants to become hokage.

>> No.35493660

Well, this is convenient.

>friend of a friend says he wants to run a game
>something in the middle of a Trigun, Cowboy Bebop, and Firefly trifecta
>everyone calls roles
>manage to grab pilot before it's taken

I'm going to be running a stoic sort of dude who can wreck shit in close quarters, should it come to that (that being, if we are boarded). Any ideas on how to make him not generic punchguy?

>> No.35493995

>challenge everyone and everything to a duel of honor
>Then proceeds to get his ass handed to him because of course he can't 1v1 the boss and now we're down a guy
>every time

>> No.35494044

>complains when we won't resurrect him

>> No.35494047

What system?

If it's 3.x/PF, don't bother. Just use a boarding axe or pistol or whatever. Way easier and you can actually be a decent pilot.

If it's something else, then we need to know what so we know where to go. Is it BESM, do you need to make a Special Technique? Is it GURPS, and we just need to tell you to pick upa few decent traits?

Data, anon. Data.

>> No.35494080

It's some weird d6-based system I don't remember the name of. Something like Blam? Sorry.

>> No.35494269

So everyone pretty much plays a depressed character in your games?

>> No.35494365


GURPS is d6

>> No.35494373

>write 'fallacy!' across your knuckles
>throw their bullshit right in their face

>> No.35494410

It sometimes ends up that way, but they're always at least grounded.

>> No.35494541

i have never played with GURPS

>> No.35494646


>> No.35494775

I don't consider ending up horribly crippled at the age of 25 from losing every fight you've ever been in to be part of a blissful life.

>> No.35495024

>This is the first time I've ever set foot in /tg/
>Clicking through random threads
>Find this
>Read through it all the way

God bless you, Edgardo.

God bless.

>> No.35495282

>Not liking punch guys

It's like you don't even grit those teeth.

>> No.35495352

>"So what do we do now?" Squid was ready to quit. Edgardo wouldn't have it.
>"We train Squid. We train."

>> No.35496712

A /tg/ treasure if I ever did see one

>> No.35497918


>> No.35498027

Wow. I've somehow never seen this one before. 11/10.

>> No.35498562

Just play a pulpy kung fu game already, god.

>> No.35498624

>hand to hand
>in a gritty cyberpunk game
>has to be told "no, there's no chi bullshit here"
I really want to restart that game so he can get forcefed some 7.62

>> No.35498681

>make monk in 3.5
>"No monks anon, we're not using supplements"
>make a wizard who grapples and punches things but has no offensive-oriented spells
>most hated character among the party by the DM because I don't murderhobo like our other wizard or our martials
>rippin' out spines and tearing off dragon scales. That's the kind of wizard I had.

>> No.35498695

Are there any RPG settings that would let me have a Stand? Nothing fancy, I'm just thinking something Star Platinum-ish

>> No.35498745

>gritty cyberpunk
>not ambushing bad(der?) guys and punching/choking the shit out of them
>not being cybered up so hard, that the sight of you would make 40k techpriests simultaneously tear up and ejaculate in unison
>not replicating cheesy kung fu of old movies with nothing but superior technology
>not remembering every morning you're just a quadruple amputee with some bits of metal bolted on
>not having phantom limbs problem even when handling "your" limbs
>not having all the delicious identity crisis AND robots punching robots in one glorious package

no. This is not the hand of science.

>> No.35498763

>make monk in 3.5
>"No monks anon, we're not using supplements"
Cool story, bro. Too bad everyone knows that monks were a core class in 3.5

>> No.35498777

Good point.
Maybe it was something else.
It was quite a while ago.

>> No.35498860

He didn't take any cyberware at all.
He's gon' die

>> No.35498877

>Marking out to a clearly fake story

>> No.35498898

> eing this much if a faggot

>> No.35498911

I like punching and wrestling a lot, but basing an entire character around it in a game where there are more effective ways of combat is dumb.

>> No.35498933

all of these people who've never been in a fight or trained a non-fake martial art in their lives

>> No.35498951

Okay sure buddy. Listen like the FIRST think they teach you in karate is to how to make constructs from elemental magic.

>> No.35498965

I know what you mean, as a wizard it's really frustrating for me to see non-wizards discuss magic as if they know anything about it! I bet they've never been in a magic duel or trained a non-fake magic school spell before.
>What is a roleplaying game

>> No.35498982

No, they teach you how to tie on those pajamas first. We didn't do fist elementals until the third class.

>> No.35498988

The first think?

Anyway, people who cream themselves over luchador characters and play monk or monk analogues every game have as a rule never trained boxing, wrestling, knockdown karate, MMA, muay thai, BJJ or any other serious form of unarmed combat.

Jew Jitsu is bullshit by the way.

>> No.35498994

You can't punch racism.You can't punch cancer. You can't punch your dead puppy back to life.

>> No.35498999

>people select their weapons based on damage die only
>greatswords and bastard swords everywhere
>wouldn't your dude from the Japanese Dimension prefer to use a katana or something?
>wouldn't your Paladin feel strengthened by wielding their god's holy weapon?

I can tolerate this shit when it's tied to a fun build, but defaulting to bigger damage is kind of tiring and robs personality from characters.

>> No.35499002

>Anyway, people who cream themselves over luchador characters and play monk or monk analogues every game have as a rule never trained boxing, wrestling, knockdown karate, MMA, muay thai, BJJ or any other serious form of unarmed combat.
Who the fuck cares? It's an RPG.

>> No.35499013

I know how it is, I'm a trained swordsman and every time someone wants to be a paladin or other sword wielding character I challenge them to a duel. If they can't beat me, tough titties, they're a peasant in my service for the rest of the game

>> No.35499036

Exactly. If they can't beat me in a grappling match I rape them and ban them from my game.

>> No.35499037

It's the fault of the DM or the system for not differentiating between weapons in more ways than damage. And when it's the system's fault, it's actually the DM's fault for not fixing it in play.

>> No.35499040

Of course, as a professional strongman, I cannot abide anyone trying to play really strong characters when they can't even lift a car. Fucking manlets, when will they learn?

>> No.35499043

A roleplaying game still needs to be believable.
There's nothing believable about a character who thinks that hand-to-hand combat training is a substitute for weapons, unless that character is meant to be really stupid. Like funtionally retarded stupid.

>> No.35499051

This reminds me of a Barbarian-themed game we played. After one of the barbarians became severely wounded, and the other rushed to his aid full of concern, but with no knowledge of first aid, we joked that barbarian first aid involved punching the wounds until they disappear.

>> No.35499070

Monks and monk analogues are a wuxia archetype, they're not supposed to be fucking realistic. They leap 30' in the air and have magic chop-sockey powers.

>> No.35499081

I've already played with the idea of making a house rule for using two-handed weapons indoors. Bastard swords are already OK-ish, except one player found a legit loophole that just doesn't make any fucking sense.

But that shit is hard to get across with players when they've already been playing the system as-is for ages. I'll just compensate with different and smarter enemies. Because they can see the dude in shining armour with the huge sword, so by rights he should be priority target.

>> No.35499084


See, it's the second point that annoys me sometimes. As a GM, I run games that tend towards the serious end of the scale, where the bad guys behave logically and things function on cause and effect. I encourage my players to think tactically, to be suspicious and canny, and to be pragmatic when it comes to dealing with enemies. (Because I've found out that players will do their best to derail your plot anyway by killing every villain they can, so it's a better idea to work with that assumption in mind.)

Then you have that one guy who wants to act like he's in a shonen manga, making grand speeches and challenging opponents. It's not that I don't listen to people like that, it's that the grand speeches usually aren't that moving, and they don't have the Diplomacy skills to back that up. (Because, despite most /tg/ stories, the dice can indeed crap out on you at a dramatic moment.)

So you have a guy giving the villain a speech on why what he's doing is WRONG and he should STOP, which is exactly as cringey and autistic as you'd expect. Logically, someone like that - who's so heavily invested in his plot - is not going to take you seriously.

But when the villain shrugs and goes "Shoot him." or starts laughing, I get hurt feelings and sulky players for the rest of the session. Or when the same guy's solution is:

> "Enemy has an impenetrable barrier and is devastating the other guys? I'll roar really loud and run at him headfirst."

and he dies, he also gets sulky. I mean, it's a bad situation, and RPGs aren't like anime or heroic fiction. In fact, the world is even MORE unforgiving, because there's no author's fiat to bail you out. There are no rules for, say, a Monk to punch through a Wall of Force (unless he has the relevant magical item.) It simply cannot be done.

And yet, people still get upset that games don't run on 'movie rules', where you get a powerup at your darkest moment.

>> No.35499092

I really don't think you're cut out for this hobby.

My Physad boxer was fucking amazing, and hilarious. Nothing in your toolbox of weapons tops my room full of guys cheering and calling for Tony to deliver his "Sweet Thang" (A non-killing hands blow, that would generally overflow the stun track and hit deadly physical damage, killing a person in a single, technically non-magical blow)

>> No.35499125

That's dumb, barbarians would have rudimentary knowledge in first aid to a man and would be knowledgeable about local medical herbs et al.

If you can't beat me in a fight IRL I will cut your BAB in half.

>> No.35499126


Epic gaming..

>> No.35499151

You are dumb for taking a joke seriously. The character had 0 Heal skill. Then we made a joke. Relax your autism.

>> No.35499165

I wish you were my GM. The one I play with is on the other end of the spectrum and always gets asshurt when I don't want to act like some jive ass bitch in one of his japanese mangos.

>> No.35499182


You dont hit enough

Hit, dont doubt

>> No.35499184

When it comes to power fantasy gamers, I try to make it clear at the outset that I'm an impartial referee, I let the dice fall where they may, I never fudge or railroad, I don't pull stuff out of my arse, I play NPCs according to their prewritten characteristics in my notes, etc. Then, when they do something stupid and get their shit pushed in, I can be totally sympathetic and on their side - oh man, tough luck, you had such a good thing going, them's the breaks, gg. People learn how to play a lot quicker when they don't think the GM is personally screwing them.

>> No.35499195


Did you scream that shit whenever you go to kungfu movies? Is this the true face of autism?

>> No.35499198

Don't get me wrong, if somebody wants to play a buffoonish character, that's totally fine. They just shouldn't be surprised if that character dies young.

>> No.35499215

>A roleplaying game still needs to be believable
Do you actually roleplay? Or are you just being a contrarian troll? Because I'm pretty-goddamn-certain that every roleplaying game ever requires a certain suspension of belief.

I mean, if you're gallumphing around in Fantasy!World #426, smiting dragons and creating tornadoes with a wave of your cock, but it's Mister Fist o'The Northstar rustling your jimmies, you have much bigger worries to attend to than you might realize.

>> No.35499262

I don't ask for realism, just for believability.
If you want to run a game where people can punch through armour and karate chop swords in half, that's cool. But if I'm running the game and I'm telling you that doesn't work, then your character should know that it doesn't work unless he's completely divorced from the world that he lives in.

>> No.35499342


In all fairness, he's not completely wrong. There are a lot of systems where any weapon is inherently better to your bare hands. That's kind of why we have weapons in the first place, too.

>> No.35499363

You sound like a huge faggot whose anti fun.

>> No.35499375

Depends on the genre the game belongs to. In a kung-fu game it's okay to catch bullets and bare hands, but not in a noir game. Neither is inherently superior.

>> No.35499378

Monsters and Other Childish Things.

>> No.35499388

Why would you not want to be a kung-fu cyborg, given the option?

>> No.35499400


I'm a professional pet detective who can communicate with animals and I'm sick of all these people playing druid.

If you can't make an elephant sit on a car IRL you shouldn't be able to play druid, or ever ranger for that matter.

>> No.35499419

I don't understand what he's bitching about. If he doesn't want a game with magic kung-fu in it, then don't include it. If he does, then it's on his head. Where's the problem?

>> No.35499448

Hokagefriend sounds amazing.
He is that last spark of hope that inspires you all to take up your dreams again.
Go for it anon, don't give up!

>> No.35499482

So you run a grimdark shitty campaign?

>> No.35499496


Or he's just a retard.

>> No.35499558

Yeah and I bet guys like you have never had sex, but in every RPG you are banging anyone who walks by.

>> No.35499601

Or he's having fun and trying to get everyone else to have fun too. Just in a different way

>> No.35499611


I don't see the problem. That seems like a pragmatic campaign to me, where people treat their weapons and the danger that comes with them with respect.

It's like in real life. Soldiers are careful with their weapons, because guns kill people and taking cover/flanking the enemy/being all tactical is actually a good idea if you don't want to catch a bullet to the face.

That's hardly grimdark, just being careful.

>> No.35499628

>Want to play a monk or ki user
>None is running anima games

>> No.35499648

Be a Druid who pretends to be a Monk with a Bear Spirit Guide tell everyone but the DM you're a Monk empowered by the Bear

>> No.35499650

>Runs something that isn't to your taste
>immediately shitty and the worst thing ever

Please die.

>> No.35499676

Or I could search for a group running a system that isn't total dogshit for that and doesn't need me to jump around loops like a sick cunt to make a semi-viable character which also has dogshit options and customization.

>inb4 anima haters.

>> No.35499706

i prefer MnM I like the total freedom in character creation and gameplay
I meant it as a joke to trip up the rest of the group Not in a mean-spirited way, but as a great opportunity for roleplay/campaign plot

>> No.35499754

Most D&D groups tend to be pretty awful by the virtue of walking three steps and getting a new game, so when people get bored/dislike anything they just drop and fuck off to never return, D&D groups last the same as a tear in the rain. Non-common games (anima, MnM, iron kingdoms, Warham(not so much)) tend to last more because you gotta keep it together since there are near no DMs/players.

>> No.35499792

lol epic
the whole world is built just to make the story work.
teleport is a 2nd level abillity yet no one else but edgardo uses it
the story's so badly written i poop evey time i read it

>> No.35499844

Play D&D with friends
Group stays together till the point where everyone is growing tired of the system and vague, lackluster Fantasy RPGing but it still so engrained in the system and used to its comprehensive and easy-access ruleset that they are unwilling to jump ship to another system
I just want to play sci-fi or low-magic for once

>> No.35499846

Got to bed Xer0.

>> No.35499864

Or I could play a good system with my friends. Which is what I'm doing, sadly we're on hiatus while a player gets surgery done.
Get your friends to play other fucking systems, jesus fuck you D&Drones are pathetic, D&D isn't the only fucking system out there, branch a little bit.

I hope he's fine ;-;

>> No.35499902

None of ourgames tend to last, sadly
I play with friends, and we keep starting campaigns, but the longest one I've been in was, I think, 6 sessions. Which is a little saddening

>> No.35499907


explain the loophole? I love that kind of thing...

>> No.35499963

>Hang on, if I can use this indoors, does that mean I can cover the whole doorway with this huge, badass sword?
I honestly have no idea Two handed weapons have different rules for indoors?

>> No.35499975

>Itt we see why /fit/ and /tg/ can never coexist.

seriously though, people have been spit roasting monsters from atop a horse with a lance forever. It takes a special kind of bad ass to punch those monsters in the face and win.

>> No.35499993

Oh, get fucked, Anon. What the fuck more do you want? I acknowledge the weakness of the system, and you STILL call me a "D&D drone".

And just get the other players to play other systems. I have, you bumblecunt. Guess what? Other systems suck. They objectively suck compared to the so-hated D20. They have less functionality, while also having their heads up their asses about their special snowflake settings. So now I'm trying to find a new system that doesn't suck, and also isn't from the 80's or something.

It's pretty hard, actually.

So go ahead. Pitch me some systems you enjoy playing.

I'm expecting you won't, though. Because you cunts never do, and never even say WHY you think d20 systems suck

>> No.35500005



Success breeds hatred.

>> No.35500018

My group did Jojos using Eidolons.

>> No.35500048

It's simple. He's playing a Tengu, and according to the rules Tengu are proficient with ALL swords. And this while wielding a bastard sword onehanded usually requires expending a Feat. These are the official rules, but it's ridiculous.

No, I said I'm thinking of adding a houserule for that, because it doesn't make sense that you can swing a greatsword when there is no room for it. I mean, when you visit a castle, you'll find that spiral staircases spiral the right way round. This is to put attackers at a disadvantage. But according to the rules, you'd only get the High Ground modifier.

>> No.35500052

-Horrible "balancing"
-Horrible community
-Horrible twaty devs (Specially Paizo)
-IT'S POPULAR SO IT'S GOOD! mentality. So is fast food, and sure as fuck it ain't good. Just convenient.
-Shit customization
-I want to be rules light! NO CRUNCH HEAVY! NO RULES LIGHT!
-SPLAAAAATSSSSS (3.5 mostly)

Fate, WoD, fantasy craft, dungeon world, 40kRPGs, GURPS, anima, 4eD&D, mouseguard.

>inb4 hispter

I'd rather be a hispter and drink shitty starbucks coffee on my mcbook than make anyone suffer the piece of shit that's D&D

>> No.35500065


So what about 5e.

>> No.35500071

If it's DnD or Pathfinder...is it so bad that he can do cool stuff as a Fighter?

>> No.35500100

Anon, those are all extremely objective reasons, and you seem to be extremely asspained.

I mean, shit, your list of reasons D&D sucks is longer than your list of systems that don't. And great, now I know these systems exist. I already knew that. What did I say about old systems? What did I say about setting wankery?

No, you're right. You ARE a hipster. You define yourself by what you hate, rather than what you like.

>> No.35500103

Adding to
Not to mention terrible math and some of those systems ARE d20, it's just that DnD/PF is garbage. Even Fantasy Craft is a DnD "clone" that does DnD much better than DnD.

5e is the best edition so far, but the scaling is pretty bad and the developers can't into math. Also it gives the party a reason to stop for an hour after every encounter.

>> No.35500106

Haven't played it, looks to be the same as 3.5.

I literally enjoyed 4E because of it's wargamming style, nothing more, nothing less.

>> No.35500146

>I mean, shit, your list of reasons D&D sucks is longer than your list of systems that don't.

Well your comparing full blown systems to a list of shitty mechanics in a system.

Not the guy you're replying to, but if I had to list the pros and cons of all the systems he named against PF/3.5, every single one of them, except maybe W40K (this is just a personal bias of mine though), would come out on top over 3.PF

>> No.35500152

You realise you don't need houserules for this shit, right? Just use common sense.

>> No.35500162

You say that like he somehow needs to know dozens upon dozens of systems to compensate for not playing D&D. You only need to know 1, maybe 2, systems per genre you like. A few more if we count setting-specific systems. The 13 systems he listed are plenty.

>> No.35500178

He's not a Fighter, he's a Magus.

Mostly it irks me that a character from a Japanese culture can magically use a weapon that normally eats up a Feat for free. Especially because it's not even a Jap weapon. Other races get claws, or proficiency with ONE weapon, and these guys just get to use all swords. Ever. It's not the end of the world, but it's annoying.

I mean, the haters are right in some aspects when it comes to D20. It's just that most of them are foaming-at-the-mouth retards like the dude up there.

>> No.35500193

How about a flaw then?
>Unable to use other weapons without feats
Or maybe
>Penalties when using daggers, hammers and bows?

>> No.35500224

>Mfw that guy made a toaster fist and a cheese grater fist in a GURPS game. He dubbed them "face melter" and "face grater" .

>Mfw same guy makes punching gauntlets out of the skulls from two vampire twins that our DM magical realmed .

>> No.35500229

>your list of reasons D&D sucks is longer than your list of systems that don't
9 (not including shit that's lateral, for example fate and spirit of the century, anima and rolemaster)

To continue, of all of those the only "hard" one is anima, the rest should be learnt and even "mastered" in one afternoon.

The only one aspained here is you my dear D&Drone.

>> No.35500261

You can make any system do anything you want with a minimum to moderate amount of tweaking. Arguing over which system to use is like arguing over which brand of tissue to use while masturbating.

>> No.35500279

This is in response to him believing that people who prefer D&D are physically incapable of touching other systems. I have tried other systems. They didn't work well for me or the party, so back to D&D it was.

What mostly irks me is this insistence that D&D sucks, but when it comes time to give examples, people fire off some names and that's it. If these faggots are so invested in steering me away from D&D, they can put some fucking effort in it, too. Especially because I'm tired of scanning through pirated PDF's and other shit and trying to imagine running a game with these rules when I'm a mediocre GM at best. I need some solid arguments before I pick up a new system. i need to have a vague idea of how things work, and what the system focuses on.

For instance, I would love to play Traveller. We tried it. My group just isn't too keen on the emphasis on debt, and the de-emphasised combat system. So that's out. Similarly, you have these systems like WH40K RPG's that might work, but only if you're into the setting. And I could roll with WH40K, but neither I nor the party know anything about Shadowrun, for instance.

This is why I need arguments, instead of smug commentary. If anyone is willing to steer me away from D&D, I'm more than ready to listen. But so far it's assclown after snobbish assclown.

>> No.35500280

You don't understand the point of fiction, do you? The point of fiction is to take a step- or a halfstep in some cases- away from reality, and have things happen that would normally not happen.

A man with a floppy hat and a bathrobe using his words and wiggly fingers to throw lightning is one of these things.

A man using cybernetic components and spiritually supercharged muscles to punch someone's heart out through their spine is another.

The third would be someone without magic, without cybernetics, still punching someone's sword in half because they're just that good, and just that strong. That might not be realistic, but that's the entire thing about fiction.

If you really have these problems, then boy, comics and movies and books and videogames and TV shows and music and, well, everything must be a real problem with you. I hope you have fun in your white square room playing jigsaw puzzles.

Oh wait, jigsaw puzzles usually have pictures, don't they. And pictures sometimes represent 3d things when they're actually 2D! Oh god, those aren't realistic!! OH GOD YOUR LIFE IS A LIIIIE

>> No.35500288

I can cut a steak with a spoon. Doesn't mean I should cut a steak with a spoon. I should use a knife, because knifes are made to cut steak, spoons are not.

This is exactly what D&Drones will NEVER understand, that "could" doesn't not mean "should".

>> No.35500296

>if I had to list the pros and cons of all the systems he named against PF/3.5
This is exactly what I want to see.

>> No.35500314


Opinion discarded.

Seriously, everyone who thinks adding "drone" to something they don't like constitutes an argument should just be shot in the back of the head.

>> No.35500319

It's actually fine in this context really.

>> No.35500323

Nothing you just said contradicts my statement in any way whatsoever.

>> No.35500333

Oh, it's fine, guys. He said it's fine! Don't worry, it's fine, he's actually a clever chap after all.

>> No.35500360

The butthurt is almost solid mate. You should take a chill out.

You said you don't need more than one cutlery since you can use it for the other things.

>> No.35500378

I said that, did I?

>> No.35500388


Basically, the problem with D&D is that there's such a thing as class tiers. Certain characters the same level as certain other characters have vastly different strengths. A warrior doesn't have a lot of actions because the most efficient thing to do (in a white room with no features fighting a generic enemy) is to full attack, each round every round. He does a certain amount of damage every round, barring criticals, and that's all he ever does. And at higher levels, monsters get more and more and more HP and there's just so much that a fighter needs to wail on the enemy for an hour of gametime just to take it down. While a wizard could cast something like... Gate. Right under the monster. Buhbye, generic enemy. Hope you like the plane of a thousand fists to your crotch. Or maybe he can cast Wall of Iron on top of the enemy! Now he's pinned down. Let's see... Or maybe you can turn him into a squirrel with polymorph! Or turn yourself into a goddamn fucking dragon and use firebreath!

All while the warrior is full attacking, full attacking, full attacking. Not only is the wizard more powerful, he's also more *fun*.

Then there's also the factthat there are such things as feat bloat, HP bloat, level bloat, and there's just so many different features and abilities and there are some that you HAVE to take, or you're crippled as a character, either permanently or until you can retrain if your GM lets you. For example, a fighter needs certain feats or he won't have enough of an attack bonus to take down enemies his CR, and if a mage takes something like making potions, then that's a metamagic feat he's lost. Certain class-specific 'extra feats on X level' are a clumsy add-on that's meant to fix that, but it doesn't really, it just means that you can magically take those feats because you're a fighter- and any other martials that don't get their special 'extra feats' are even more fucked.

>> No.35500399


You can cook and consume human feces, this is completely possible and noone is saying that it can't be done.

At the end of the day, you're still eating shit though.

>> No.35500401

You're the one who's foaming at the mouth over people using rulesets you don't like.

My point here still stands: >>35500279

>> No.35500412

I've never had any of those problems, probably because I don't use feats.

>> No.35500420

I... agree? Still waiting on a point.

>> No.35500435

I want to play downtrodden knights

>> No.35500439

The GM's job isn't to fix the system. The game developer's job is.

>> No.35500442

No one's really going to do that for you unless it's their job or they are autistic. The biggest thing you can do is read the cores, maybe play one or two sessions with reasonable people and formulate your own opinions. Also, lurk more, you might find someone to do that for you.

>> No.35500501

>pointing out a misspelling like a frothy cunt
>going on to misspell jiu jitsu
no anon, you are the demons

>> No.35500505

I get those arguments. I've heard them before, and I have a few problems with them.

1: They all assume a high level campaign. Nobody complains about casters being absolute ass to play at lower levels.

2: They assume that criticism often levelled at D20 players (that they don't roleplay, but rollplay) is 100% true, and extend that to the DM.

In the end these are rather "soft" problems that can be worked around and only show up when you're playing a few levels above 10.

>> No.35500508


>> No.35500526

Well, cutting out a bad thing in an RPG system is probably a good idea. It's just that an ideal system doesn't have anything you need to cut out, or needs a lot less tweaking before it's playable. D&D is not an ideal system. Then again, there are no *ideal* systems I can think of, but there are some systems that I think are better.

That said, if you and your group has fun playing D&D, then that's good for you and that's what you're into, but I'll suggest some more, just because I like playing and toying with different systems.

>Savage Worlds
Savage Worlds is a favorite of mine, because it's class-free. You can make a wizard who swords and boards, or a fighter who raises the occasional zombie, or a airship captain who has a thing for monstergirls and he's not useful in combat, but he's really classy. It also has semi-feats called Edges that are optional- you don't get them for free when you Advance- you have to give up your opportunity to boost your skills or attributes. Most of the edges, even the combat ones, are situational and useful in different situations. Sweep would be handy when you're fighting multiple people, but it's not something you NEED, like in D&D.
The con of Savage Worlds is that characters don't seem to gain in power much, because you can make a character with a d12 (the highest in a skill/attribute) in Strength and buy a big sword and that'll be most the damage they can do.
There's also the fact that a lot of edges are more about changing the playing field than making you do more damage. One makes you a noble. That's it. You're a noble, you're richer, and you have more responsibilities. It's as part of your character as it is a special ability.
Also, skills being d4 to d12 instead of d20+mods is fun.

>There's more systems coming.

>> No.35500539

If you play in a company's in-house testing group, sure. Otherwise, how the hell do you figure?

>> No.35500549

Reporting in.

Would you like to fight about it?

>> No.35500550

I just deal poorly with these people who want to bitch and moan about my primary system. But when I tell them I want to play something else, and just need to find something that suits me, and because of that I need a few simple arguments to go on, they all disappear into thin air.

They are unwilling to put their money where their mouth is. They're complaining when people talk about D20, but when they get to talk about their shit, they say nothing.

I've already been on the lookout for new systems. I've already done a few test sessions. The thing is, I can't keep hitting my party with new rules, especially when other people are dying to DM another PF game.

Like I said in the other post, you don't get a very good idea of pro's and cons when just reading a Core and imagining how it will play. Much better to hear from someone who has actually played it and is enthusiastic about it. I would welcome such discussion, even from someone who calls me a "D&Drone" in the process.

>> No.35500568

I just paid £30 for your shitty rulebook and I expect it to be worth every penny, that's how I figure.

>> No.35500570

I play a version of D&D which never included feats to begin with, and we've added in some stuff from later versions that we liked. Sometimes we add stuff from different systems, or we make stuff up. Normally we keep things pretty minimal since it's easier to adjust and adjudicate on the fly that way. "Ideal" is not something we're really aiming for.

>> No.35500582

>1: They all assume a high level campaign. Nobody complains about casters being absolute ass to play at lower levels.

that's because everything is ass to play at lower levels.

>> No.35500610

So when you run into a part of a system that doesn't work well for you, do you write them a sternly worded letter and put play on hold until the next errata comes out and hope they fix it, or do you just cast the system aside in your never-ending quest to discover the one, true, perfect system penned by the hand of God Almighty in all its eternal and unchanging glory?

>> No.35500614

People are probably going to immediately leap out of the woodwork to yell at for me suggesting this one, but it's turned out well for me. FATE is a narrative-heavy game, not a game where you have to pull open the book every five minutes while learning. It's good because it's got a simple system. You have a number at a thing, and you basically get a -3 to +3 at that number. It could be an attack, a conversation, a machine you're trying to fix, and they're all resolved using the same system.

The fun part with it comes with Aspects. Aspects are basically BIG THINGS about your character, and you spend fate points to boost those things. For example, you have an aspect called [My Family's Heirloom Sword]. It means what it sounds like, and if you're attacking someone with said sword, you get a +2 to it if you spend a point on it.

But you only have a certain amount of points, but how do you get it back? By following these aspects when they would be bad for you. Saying you have [A Thermite Temper] is one thing, but that's not a thing if you never explode at anyone, is it? But if you do explode at someone and sock him in the jaw, and point out that you have [Thermite Temper] as an aspect, you've earned yourself another fate point.

Then come the compels. if your [Heirloom Sword] is stolen, then of course you're going to want to get it back. If you try, then you're getting a fate point for it. But if you resist your own nature, decide to just shrug and say 'eh, it wasn't very shiny', then you have to pay a fate point for it (and you might have to change the aspect to [Black Sheep in the Family] or something like that).

Basically, it mechanically supports acting in-character more than it does coming up with a powerful build.

>Wild Talents
I honestly haven't played with Wild Talents a lot, but it's a superhero system where you're able to build 'absolute' powers. It's kind of fun, but if you're looking for a fantasy system then this probably isn't for you.

>> No.35500617

Oh boy, another "D&D 3.x sucks" thread. And with exactly the same arguments too!

Do we have 3.x thread bingo picture, or something? Could be a useful thing for these occasions.

>> No.35500629

Kevin James has been getting stronk lately.

>> No.35500640

>I mean, it's a bad situation, and RPGs aren't like anime or heroic fiction.

This depends absolutely entirely on the mechanics of the game and has little to do with the rest of your post.

Just thought I'd point that out.

>> No.35500643

d20 =/= PF

>I'd rather take bias, probably misinformed, opinions than forming my own thoughts by reading the text directly.

Anon please you're starting to sound like a D&D drone.

Either way, you like crunch play Fantasy Craft, you like fluff play Dungeon World, you like horizontal progression play Savage Worlds, you like more player control play Fate. 13Th age is cool too.

>> No.35500676

... You know what? I basically totally agree with this guy: >>35500643 , though I never liked Dungeon World because, while it cuts out the bad things about D&D, it also cuts out the good things. And the neutral things. And leaves you in a cage with a dozen buttons to press, a small pile of mix-and-match 'dwarf' parts you use to make a paper doll of your character (with only three beard types! what the hell?)

But still, Dungeon World isn't mechanically flawed as much as D&D is.

>> No.35500678

Depends how badly designed that part is. In the event that it's casters-in-3.5 bad, fuck that system.

>> No.35500682

Because boring/autism about being "the best without artificial aids" when it's a life-or-death scenario and the 'borged up are flat-out superior.
Two of the PCs didn't even bother with cyberware.

>> No.35500691


not that guy, but you view it in wrong way. No system is perfect for everything. Some systems are better for some genres, some are worse in some specific aspects, there are even different types of approach to metagame.

And it's fun to play different systems if they exist for something specific.

>> No.35500729

I think you've conflated my comments with other people's. I never said to only play one system.

>> No.35500735

>And yet, people still get upset that games don't run on 'movie rules', where you get a powerup at your darkest moment.
Because that kind of shit is actually fun and your game sounds like a DM powertrip that ignores player input.

>> No.35500745

And if it's not that bad? You, what, just put up with it? Or do you fix it?

>> No.35500789

Fun for some. I prefer games where I succeed or fail on merit rather than drama. For example, I wouldn't want to play a strategy game where a wave of cavalry arrives to wipe out my opponent once it looks like I'm losing, nor would I want to play in an RPG with someone who enjoyed that kind of thing, since we obviously enjoy very different things.

>> No.35500797


I'm not sure why you'd get the impression. I do my best to keep things fair, on both ends. Like, if they ambush an enemy at night, he's going to be sleeping in his bed for an easy kill, unless he has some reason to believe that he's about to be attacked.

Or, if you're fighting a guy on a very high place and one PC decides to tackle them both off, both will fall to their doom. That is indeed a one-hit kill unless you manage to catch yourself, but I won't have a convenient bed of feathers for you to fall into.

A party's failure to adapt to an opponent's tactics or simple bad luck means that they'll lose a fight unless they withdraw. I apply the same principle to interactions: You can't talk down a fanatic, or get the mastermind to recant his whole worldview in the space of one Diplomacy check.

You can, however, get the mooks to flee when a handful of their guys are messily killed. Even if there are no rules for moral, of course the enemy is going to run away when you're cutting a swathe through them.

>> No.35500803

Thanks Anon.

>> No.35500811

As a fan of diplomacy and Diplomacy(tm), I hate Diplomacy checks.

>> No.35500845


I honestly feel that Diplomacy checks are a necessary part of the game. It's hardly fair to expect players to be able to be very convincing and/or charismatic in order to play characters who are like that.

I do expect them to be able to list out the gist of what they're saying, the same way I expect - say - the wizard to have an idea of what he's going to accomplish.

The problem is that a lot of people don't even bother. They're arguing with no cards in the hand, so to speak, and even the most fluent argument needs something to go for it.

For instance, if you want to get the star-crossed anti-villain girl to flip sides, your argument should probably be based around "If you come with me, we can live happily ever after together." not "Your father-figure is a genocidal madman, and the people you've grown up around and fought alongside all suck."

>> No.35500863

>Because that kind of shit is actually fun

Coming from a guy who actually LIKES wuxia styled games and shounen shit


It isn't fucking fun to get a power up or get out of jail free card because "the story demands it."

It isn't fucking fun to win because of GM fiat.

It isn't fucking fun to get everything you thought you wanted just because you really wanted it at the time.

Respecting the mechanics of the game is what separates an interesting p&p game from fucking freeform handwavium horseshit. If you're playing a game whose mechanics do not capture the sort of atmosphere or style you want for your game, tough titties, that's how it goes. Play a system that does what you want next time instead of just ignoring the mechanics of the one you're playing. It cheapens the game for everyone involved.

And besides that, everyone whose taste isn't shit knows that shounen anime where the protagonist is actually clever and has to use his brain instead of yelling really hard and getting a power up is way the fuck better anyway.

>> No.35501067

>It's hardly fair to expect players to be able to be very convincing and/or charismatic in order to play characters who are like that.

This is the usual argument. It never gets applied to anything but RPGs, though - nobody ever argues that Monopoly players shouldn't have to know how to barter to trade properties with each other, or that Diplomacy players shouldn't have know how to be duplicitous, because in those contexts it's obvious that what you say is what's important, not how you say it. When it comes to D&D, people are content to let tactics and exploration rely solely on player skill, but when it comes to interacting with NPCs they for some reason get cold feet. It's not like players are graded on their acting ability - the basic gist of what they say and the manner in which they present it is enough, not how well they perform on the delivery. It's a game skill, exactly like navigating a dungeon, and just as easy to pick up.

>> No.35501082

You kinda flubbed the explanation on Fate.

"Family's Heirloom Sword" would be a stunt that gave you +2 to Fight.

"You Bring Great Honor to Your Family" would be an associated aspect, which could be used to get another +2 to Fight with that sword.

Also Fate doesn't do negatives, so even your kids can understand the math.

>> No.35501186

My nigga.

Even "shounen powerup" stuff can be tastefully done in RPG - either by expending some kind of metaresource or having cool short-time effect come at a price of something long term.

I mean, look at actually japanese games that are supposed to emulate this stuff.

Double Cross? You overcharge your abilities at the risk of becoming mindless psychopathic mutant, and the only things holding you back are your friends, family and things that are precious to him. So, in the end, there's shonen bullshit AND there's a price to it. Maybe a bit too Urobuchi, but it WORKS.

Tenra Bansho. Where your character has metacurrency tied to his values, goals and beliefs. Yes, you can literally punch your enemy with feelings.
Only wait. Metacurrency is limited (and limited by other players and GM, no less - if they like stuff you do they award you more) AND is not to be overused (or character becomes NPC or a demon made of autism).

>> No.35501263

Hell, for less weeaboo examples, we have WH40K RPGs and their fate points.
Yes, there they're more of a necessity, given how hilariously deadly they may be. But the get out of jail free card is a mechanic, AND it has its price.

These are good. They have place, the game is built around the assumption that they're gonna be used, the game scales its threats accordingly.

GM chickening out of consequences for characters is NEVER good, whenever game is ULTRA SHOUNEN PUNCHFEST or gritty noir investigation.

>> No.35501291

If it's not that bad, then I probably just don't use it. Or I'll deal with it if I have no choice, but having no choice but to use it makes it worse.

>> No.35501311


Wow the number of system you hate are more numerous than the number of systems you like. You define yourself by your hate.

Not him, but see, I can do it to.

>> No.35501363

My game skill goes up dramatically when I give the GM a message before a game.

I guess it must just help focus all of my knowledge and natural charisma.

>> No.35501394

WoD's Willpower or Savage Worlds' bennies work great for this too.

>> No.35501400

you're a fag

>> No.35501403

Dragon Age mages in a nutshell.

>> No.35501417

jew jitsu is krav maga, moron

>> No.35501423


Exactly! As the guy who was originally complaining about it, I don't mind that guy of thing. If the game allows for it, by all means, starting drawing upon the stash for more power.

However, if you're losing a fight when you've already gone all-out (Assuming you've utilized all available resources, is what I mean) I'm not going to hand you a powerup to get out of trouble. You have what is written on your sheet, and it's up to you how to use it.

>> No.35501468

I'm sorry, does the fact that a point-blank high-caliber round beats any unaugmented martial art you can think of rustle your 'tism?
Hell, even the team's close combat specialist (a conman, of all people) packs a monosword he took off an ecoterrorist.

>> No.35501505

Once, a policeman arrested me for solicitation, but after a sucked his cock he let me go. System's broke, man.

>> No.35501526

Wild Talents would probably let you make something like that, pretty much any power I can think of is possible with maybe a bit of tinkering.

>> No.35501534


Yeah, I agree. There's a time and place for martial arts, like when you jump the guy in a narrow spot or when he thinks you're unarmed or when no-one has any weapons.

But generally, if you can shoot or stab someone instead of punching him, shoot or stab the fucker. Unless you have rocket fists or something, they shouldn't be your only resort.

We give soldiers guns for a reason.

>> No.35501586

Did he have a nice dick?

And yes, human intersections kind of are broke when two unrelated systems are allowed to influence one-another. This isn't news.

Anyway, in an RPG where GM fiat is absolute, the only meaningful skill is gaming the GM. If the GM as disdain for the system, obviously gaming the system can't help you game the GM! It's common sense.

>> No.35501595

That and the system I'm using allows you to use pistols or pistol-sized guns in melee combat, albeit with your likelihood of hitting modified by how good the other guy is in close quarters.
Sawn-off shotguns count as pistol-sized. Mr No Cyberware was surprised as hell when he found that out in a cyberpsycho's lair.

>> No.35501661

>not outright killing these deluded fucks

In my games unarmed is really great and useful. It can serve a lot of useful purposes. It can reward players who play it greatly. But being unarmed as your main thing? Ahaha no, you are dead. You are so fucking dead. You are so dead that you start to realize just how fucking stupid decision that was when you were offered a chance to do something less stupid.

I even converted a few players back to not being absolute tards.
You are not always going to detect the enemy before he detected you, have advantage of going at him first, being in a tunnel/room like space and having a cover or something in the way of range.

All in all being unarmed as your main thing, you get dropped dead by common sense.

>> No.35501669


That makes sense, actually. Pistols are lethal close-in weapon. Push them in your opponent's direction and shoot.

>> No.35501687

Still, it must have been rough on the cyber psycho since that friend of yours you hate spent all his character resources on being good at close combat, huh?

>> No.35501708

Not as much as you'd think thanks to dermal plating.

>> No.35501717


Not that guy, but the logical extrapolation is that the cyber-psycho was a roided-up killing machine. It doesn't matter if you're Bruce Lee, you can't take on the Terminator in hand-to-hand combat.

Also, the cyborg killing machine only needs to get lucky once. The human needs to be lucky all the time.

>> No.35501764

Oh. Yeah. If the guy he's facing is just plain better at close combat, and guns, and survivability, and strength, and speed, then there's no question.

I salute the GM on conscientiously tailoring a foe to surprise-kill his least favorite player's character.

>> No.35501799


Gee, it's almost like the cybernetic killing machine has an advantage over an unaugmented human in close combat. Imagine that.

>> No.35501802


It's more the nature of a cyber-psycho than tailoring.

>> No.35501812

Have you ever tried not letting people play with characters that don't work in your in-game fiction, instead of letting them play the character then killing them in some weird passive-aggressive revenge?

>> No.35501813

I didn't, he was just written in a premade module. He was designed to give an entire party a nasty surprise once they figured out the safe house their employer gave had a serial-killing cyborg squatting there, so... yeah.
They killed him in the end, but not without a fuckton of noise and gunfire that got the cops called to the scene.

>> No.35501844


People are free to choose a build and playstyle they like, but the world isn't going to adapt to their preferences. If gunfire is a prevailing means of combat, there aren't going to inexplicably be kung-fu masters hoping for fistfights.

>> No.35501847


He outright states "offered a chance"

>> No.35501863

>conscientiously tailoring a foe to surprise-kill his least favorite player's character
I understand the need to challenge players and throw a bit of lethality into a game, but singling someone out and fucking them over in-game is just rude. What ever happened to taking a player aside and talking to them like a civilized person?

>> No.35501881


It was in the module.

>> No.35501920

/tg/ is unable to understand this, they assume it's the Dungeon Master's Darwin-Given Right to weed out "bad" players by fake-pretend killing their avatars.

>> No.35501926

Yup. It's the most reasonable outcome. Why is a character that died before character generation finished in the game, though? Have you never said, "no,this game won't support that", then not included the player if he wouldn't make a valid character?

You guys keep harping about common sense, but it seems like you're running low on it from where I'm sitting.

>> No.35501938

And the dude didn't die: he got insanely lucky and came away from two twelve-gauges to the face with some nasty wounds and being blinded in one eye for about a working week.

>> No.35501941


Working on a Old WoD homebrew for it.

>> No.35501951

I wasn't referring just to that specific case, sorry. The problem is the general idea of singling out a player and fucking them over.

>> No.35501959

No, they simple have a chance(s) to be sane and have fun, or be delusional in thinking the world revolves around themselves and die because of it.

Setting we play is low fantasy and pc's are simply lumps of very delicate flesh with even more delicate infrastructure inside and you have to play really smart just to stay alive. In fact, dm is trying to kill his players and games where entire pc group remains alive and wins is quite rare. Most of the time no one survives and each member dead makes the game much harder to complete....

Anyway in our games, doing your shit unarmed gets you very dead, very fast.

>> No.35501961



>> No.35502001

Like how in most DnD editions with monks, they might start with sub-par unarmed attacks, but will eventually grow to match or even surpass more powerful weapons like greatswords? And in several other settings and systems this can be equally true?

This is what makes a monk or other pugilist something more than "just some guy who punches." A monk's body is a registered lethal weapon.

Please leave. You aren't cut out for most fantasy, or fiction in general.

>> No.35502010


Reminds me of the Lamentations of the Fire Princess modules, where the whole point is to fight smart, cunning and dirty. There are modules that can be resolved without combat, and ones where you can walk away with a fortune by being very, very careful.

There are modules like The Tower of Love, which is a complete deathtrap with no treasure. Boy, would I be pissed at the DM for that one.

But stuff like Death, Doom, Frost - Where you can get thousands of gold from looting death bodies, but venturing deeper into the dungeon causes all hell to break loose - strike me as fairer/more balanced.

>> No.35502016

Don't offer a chance. If it's a (serious,) game about office politics and someone shows up with a cybered-up gun-god with the intelligence and temperament of a pit-bull, it's not a case of "offering" to let them play another character. The character is made in defiance of the game's premises. Don't let them play it AT ALL!

>> No.35502041

>office politics
>Cybernetics and guns
Sounds like a Shadowrun game to me.

>> No.35502081

>>even if it makes them next to useless in the setting
Have you tried not playing DnD. 4/10, made me respond. Faggot.

>> No.35502102

>dictating the "right" way for players to play
>"converting" your "tard" players instead of viewing them as even remotely equal

Wow you're not a very good person, are you?

>> No.35502118


Some Anon did a bunch of posts where he pitched the idea of using Wild Talents for Jojo's. I haven't played Wild Talents, but I have read it and it looked pretty legit.


I'd probably use that system if I ever were to try to run a Jojo's game and help the players make their own stands.

>> No.35502132

>delusional in thinking the world revolves around themselves and die because of it.
Textbook worst case scenario DM.

The game should actually revolve around the player's character's.

This is basic shit, dude.

>> No.35502185

Our games are based around common sense and survival mostly. Meaning you try to achieve your goals (usually all survival related, even long term ones) so avoiding combat (or at least frontal confrontation) is 90% of the time far more rewarding then getting wounded like a complete idiot.

pc's are simply very delicate beings. In a world where there are so many materials harder then them that can be sharpened, and in a world where they need constant air and water canals inside of them to work 100% correct 100% of the time, you simply do not do frontal assault unless you want to sacrifice yourself.

And the best thing about our system is that pc's sacrificing other pc's to save their sorry ass happens far more often then putting yourself in danger
But then after that entire party suffers because long term survival is usually halved

Gotta love when someone attempts those 'stand alone' types only to realize that he cant do everything himself when its too late.

>> No.35502197

It also happens in most sci-fi settings, faggot. SURPRISE, dakka the choppy works pretty well when something is accurate.

>> No.35502232

see >>35502185, our game is centered about the world not about pc's, and the main goal of the game is long term survival, but games are usually about just staying alive long enough because of just how fucked you can get by the world/gm.

You have to actually outsmart gm to stay alive. Luck helps but not that much.

>> No.35502234

This. I'm 100% with this guy. Always there's some guy who disregards both the setting and the system, expecting the GM to just let him work out some novel in the game.

Or people who make characters like Sir Bearington and expecting them to actually work in even a semi-serious game.

>you just hate fun!
We clearly like different things, I like the gameplay and pushing through even though the odds are against me.

If you just want to do shit with nothing able to stop you I suggest freeform, but I don't know what you're hoping to accomplish trying to pull this in a normal game.

>> No.35502348

That's when you let the punchy characters equip power fists or something similar. If your setting has futuristic melee weapons, chances are there's a viable option to punch someone in the face with futuretech.

>> No.35502406

I'm hoping that an unoptimized character would be allowed if it suits the character I'm trying to make. There should be nothing wrong with monks if the setting/system has them.

If they exist and are said to be almost supernatural pugilists, transcending what it is to be human and reaching a new plane of existence and enlightenment, drawing the power of the universe into themselves then you better damn well allow me to make one.

Punishing me like a passive-aggressive fuckwit for it isn't cool or impressive or "survivalist." It doesn't make you a good DM. It's a dick move. Literally anyone can kill their players. Anyone.

Even the dumbest DM in the world can look at their players, throw in a monster three CR above them, and say "lol git gud this is a hard game lol shouldn't have played a monk lol."

No, monks shouldn't be at a disadvantage for not using arms and armor. That's literally the whole point of them. They don't NEED those things to function.

>> No.35502460

You're a punk bitch, aren't you?

>> No.35502473


Did you ever try telling them that their course of action may not be the wisest one, OOC? It seems like it would be worth a shot. If you did and it didn't help, then welp, hate on.

>> No.35502488

It sounds like you have psychological and social issues that you are trying to work out by abusing your "players", if you are even being truthful about actually running games. Either way I suggest professional help instead of fumbling these social activities.

>> No.35502531

>This whole thread
The solution here is to take your problem players, sit them down, look them right in the eye, and say, "Hey, your dude needs some tweaking".

>> No.35502622

Takes one to know one.

We're arguing over DMs fucking over players because of their own personal preferences on the internet, after all. Can't get much pettier than that.

>> No.35502658

That's more pissy godmode DM. The true Darwinian DM lets the players do whatever dumbass thing they want then watches dispassionately as they die horrible deaths of their own making.

>> No.35502663

Why can't I play my bald quigong monk with spandex short shorts? This is bullshit!

Fuck you, Tom, you never let me have fun.

>> No.35502681

Because he's not an androgynous innocent boy ignorant of the world beyond his mountaintop monastery with spandex short shorts

>> No.35502734

Because spandex hasn't been invented yet in the setting. Leather and silk are okay, though.

>> No.35502739

The game revolves around the players, in that everything in it is there to contribute to the players' enjoyment. The game WORLD doesn't revolve around the player characters nor should it. People who want to engage in elaborate power fantasies are welcome to form their own groups and glorify each other to their hearts' content, but they shouldn't inflict them on the rest of us.

>> No.35502750

Okay. I tweaked it, Tom. Are you happy now?

Because I might be.

>> No.35503696

Not that anon and I don't have a dog in this fight, but I do recommend taking a look at Savage Worlds.

>> No.35504269

>Oh wait, jigsaw puzzles usually have pictures, don't they. And pictures sometimes represent 3d things when they're actually 2D! Oh god, those aren't realistic!! OH GOD YOUR LIFE IS A LIIIIE
You. I like you.

>> No.35505285

I got lucky and managed to find a group a few weeks ago. Aiming for Dumah so that my character can cut with his fingers and stab with his toes.

>> No.35506768


Too soon.

>> No.35506819


>> No.35506897

I don't get it.

>> No.35507297

That's how you know it's Art.

>> No.35507391

>that guy who isn't a feudal knight (noble guardsman) in dark heresy

>> No.35507456

It's the shapeshifting superhero Plasticman, with the caption saying that it is not a pipe i assume

>> No.35507491

Do I have to explain a huge part of art history to you - an event that made waves when it occurred, purely because it was making a point about something that some artists had failed to understand?

René Magritte painted La trahison des images because he was making a statement that an image of a thing is not the thing itself. Hence, the caption in the image - "This is not a pipe." - is both perfectly accurate and extremely infuriating. Of course it's a pipe! It has all the aspects of being a pipe, except the actual shape, the smell, the texture, the taste... wait. Maybe it's not a pipe after all.

>> No.35507651

Yes, yes, we know all that. What's with the second one?

>> No.35507675

Ah. Plasticman reminds me unaccountably of a burlesque lady's stockinged leg.

>> No.35508126

I'd have to disagree about DW. But I do see where your dislike of it comes from.

The box analogy is somewhat accurate if you play it STRICTLY by the books. Which I don't, because fuck rules. Rules lite is the whole reason I picked up DW in the first place.

DW is pretty good if you haven't planned ahead as a GM. It has built in improvisation support.

I respect your opinion.

Besides, everyone knows RuneQuest is the best.

>> No.35508421

Fist, hunting knife, and shotgun. Either that, or .25 acp hollowpoints.

>> No.35508589

Systems that are not D&D have skill systems that actually work to support players in all respects.
For instance, the 40k line has a Logic skill, and the Deathwatch line has Knowledge equivalents for offensive and defensive tactics. Basically, if you pass the check, the GM gies you a nudge in the right direction. Try not to critically fail though.

>> No.35508635

You're missing the point.

>> No.35508702

>never say why
You haven't been around much, then. I've seen it clearly delineated over a dozen times now, with objectively better games provided.

>and not from the 80's
Why would you limit yourself like this?

>> No.35508848

I know, it's atrocious. A "logic" skill though, really? I never heard of that one. God, that's something else.

>> No.35509735

>A "logic" skill though, really? I never heard of that one. God, that's something else.
It's 40k. They give shit weird names. Your first aid skill is Medicae. Logic, as far as I know from my time with the system, is just for generic int rolls.

>> No.35511065

That's pretty much the point of this thread, isn't it? To shit on things you don't like.

>> No.35511126

>the skill for logical analysis is Logic? wow, how weird
I'll grant you Medicae, but really?

>> No.35511400

The fact that there's a skill for logical analysis at all is fucking bizarre, if it is what its name suggests.

>> No.35511467

>There are no rules for, say, a Monk to punch through a Wall of Force (unless he has the relevant magical item.) It simply cannot be done.

In terms of 3.PF all Monk unarmed attacks are treated as fucking magic attacks as long as they have ki in their pool you mostly reasonable person.

Point to you about dice not always siding for autistic bullshit, and lets be real even within their stories Shonen Hero speeches that take longer than a fucking panel and four sentences are usually boring as fuck and not moving. There is a reason Naruto's Talk no Jutsu solutions at the climax with an arc's villain is mocked and wears on people. Honestly if you don't want him to be like that tell him to god damned stop.

People that think Edgardo's story is fake have clearly never fucking freeform RP because people, especially mary sue tween faggots, will always take something that seems "cooler and badass" than your rudementary loophole abusive basics just because they're stupid.
I was in a freeform Kingdom Hearts RP once where everyone except like maybe a single digit amount of guys was in Organization XIII as interns or something and like seven of them had keyblades, meanwhile one of the non Organization members had a Gunblade that he shot people with and people never saw it coming even after the third god damn time.

Like try to realize freeform RP is predominantly a bunch of people so autistic they can't play real RPGs that involve dice with people outside their house.

>> No.35511553

You can't expect every player to know how decipher an ancient cypher, let alone the GM to be able to make one. It's a cahtchall for puzzles and situations that are more complex and grounded in the gameworld than the actual people involved can adequately handle.

>> No.35511695

vwvat? Story teim Anom

>> No.35512049

If the "puzzle" comprises a skill check, it's not more complex, nor in fact a puzzle. But it sounds like it's a generic Int stat anyway.

>> No.35512077


Can a Monk, in fact, punch through a Wall of Force? Isn't it immune to everything except Disintegrate?

>> No.35512120

If it's only passed with a skill check, it's more equivalent to a QTE or something, yes. It serves as a way of slowing the party down. It justifies the "roll Int for a hint" method, though, which some people unrightfully protest in D&D because reasons.

Dispels, Disintegrate, and the Angelwing Razor.

>> No.35512145

Huh? Justifies how?

>> No.35512228

>Not trying to beat things to death with your penis

>> No.35512267

Because it creates a clear precedent in the system. "Here is a skill for logical analysis, a thing that requires practice, for players to use."
3.P has - at best - raw Int, but many DMs either get bogged down in that edition's must-rules-for-everything mentality (in which there is no specific table for rolling raw Int to solve a thing), or else get too caught up in a puzzle having to be solved by the player and forget that everyone is playing a roleplaying game.

>> No.35512383

I'm accustomed only to thinking in terms of what's fun and best for gameplay. That entire paragraph was incomprehensible to me.

>> No.35512507

I'm glad for that.
I started my RPG career with D&D, so I've had to learn a lot of hard lessons.
Everything I've said feels really fucking obvious to me.

>> No.35512895

>Jew Jitsu is bullshit by the way.
I assume you mean Jiu Jitsu.

Say that to my face faggot not online see what happens

>> No.35513547

A good GM is never antagonistic towards the players. A good GM is always neutral.
The dice are used to eliminate bias, and that's all.

GMs who get some kind of euphoric sensation out of killing PCs are lower than shit. Firstly, killing PCs when you're the GM is the easiest thing in the world. It's easier than getting your fat ass out of the chair to get snacks. Your penis does not grow in size the more PCs you make rocks fall upon. Second, if you are angered to see your players survive through a session, you honestly need psychological help.

>> No.35516564

It's a major award

>> No.35517999

So being a player in one of your games is a lot like Thermonuclear war?

>> No.35518364

>Not tearing your enemies asunder with your bare hands
>Not hurling swathes of men around like splashing water
>Not sending armies of men screaming like infants with a single roar
>Not being a monster

>> No.35519507

Well there's this, although it'll honestly be more for an ability-giving Stand while you do punching yourself, unless you also houserule that charmshare work two ways..

>> No.35519516

Yes I can. Yes I can. Okay you got me there, but I can punch a guy into a puppy just like the old one. And/or punch a puppy into an immortal puppy god.

>> No.35519710

>>wouldn't your dude from the Japanese Dimension prefer to use a katana or something?
>implying Japan only had one type of sword
It'd be extremely easy to port all those other variants.

>>wouldn't your Paladin feel strengthened by wielding their god's holy weapon?
If the Holy Weapon lacks any enhancements that make it better, then it's not a Weapon, it's just a pretty relic you hang in your temple.

>> No.35519781

Sidereal Martial Arts strike again.

>> No.35519784


Presumably when it's not a magic kung-fu game but someone attempts to make a magic kung-fu character and then gets mad when it doesn't work. I'll give it a good 90% that he's never dealt with that and is just bitching about nothing though.

>> No.35519802


Yes, serious martial arts advocates only play bards. It's a known fact.

>> No.35519803

It is also fun to abuse the Ride charms to get a throng of familiars uplifted from random woodland animals. I was a walking wide area HNNNNNNG hazard.

>> No.35519861

>And then every other game we'll have a guy who didn't bother to make a background and just wants to become hokage.
I would be happy about this so I could know who to completely avoid.

>> No.35519900

I have a OP combo built into my character that I have never used and don't intend to use unless it looks like I am going to die.

I like that character too much to see him die over dumb shit.

>> No.35519904

A king can kill with a sword, a greater king can kill with his hands, and still greater kings can kill with their words.

but the greatest have no need for killing at all.

>> No.35519907

>teleport is a 2nd level abillity yet no one else but edgardo uses it
From what I read, low level teleport was specific to user who had Spirit overflown, which is almost never used.

I don't know if this is true, but it is at least consistent.

>> No.35519914

>You realise you don't need houserules for this shit, right? Just use common sense.
It'll pass better if you codify it as a houserule.

>> No.35519915

Actually, I do Muay Thai. I also attend a local Shaolin temple, but more for fitness than anything else.

I don't always play monks, but I do have a boner for physical adepts or classes that supposedly require intense concentration (avengers, swordsages, monks, psions, etc) and a certain amount of MYSTIC WISDOOOM, so I assume you'd lump me with the people you're talking about.

>> No.35519936

Fuck I screwed up the quote it says warrior not king

>> No.35519947

Aaaand I also missed out "a still greater warrior can kill with a glance."

>> No.35519983

My favorite play-through (or whatever it is called, I have been up for too long to care) is a currently running dnd 3.5 game. Mostly because I like my character the DM is good, people role play well, and there isn't a single narutard.

>> No.35520941


Why can't unarmed still be viable in a world of guns and ammo?

I mean, in ShadowRun you have a world of magic, machines, and everything in between yet you can still fuck shit up with a good throw score and some martial arts bullshit.

The world doesn't change to suit the playstyle but at the same time, is there a reason why the playstyle couldn't work at all?

>> No.35521330

Why can't he have fun, OP?

>> No.35521433

>stab with his toes
That's fucking hilarious.

>> No.35521504

Unarmed is useless regarding of setting, as long as there are situations where it makes sense. In the real world for instance there are tons of places where they'd never let anyone with a gun in, and the guy who can fold the other guy like a pretzel will obviously have an edge if they can't have weapons in the airport or whatever.

There are plenty of situations where you can surprise or ambush someone with unarmed combat where he MIGHT have seen it coming if you had walked up to him with a friendly smile and a gun, chainsword or whatever.

You might be captured or disarmed, and you'll probably be pretty happy that someone taught you to kick someone's balls out through his nose then.


There's no fucking way that it would make sense to have unarmed combat as your main way to fight. It's absolutely pants-on-head-retarded to have hand to hand combat be your "thing" in a setting with plenty of guns in the same way as a shotgun is some other guys thing.

There aren't any regiments of hand to hand fighters rushing the enemy lines to go MMA on their asses when the other people have guns.

If you want to play a close combat character in a modern setting with firearm, you'd need some place like Sweden or another silly country where you can't even carry a pocket knife or a screwdriver outside your property without a good excuse.

>> No.35521564

To once played a hot blooded acolyte in a dark heresy game that was heavily based on protoman from the bands the Protomen and the Megas. Ended up being almost completely machine from my injuries

moments include
>is this the best you've got? Are these your strongest machines? With this one plasma shot, you'll learn what vengeance means!

Delivered to a rogue magos experimenting with AI. Also did the whole what have I become schitck since I became more machine then man.

If I have a heart now made of steel, does that mean I cannot feel? Remorse for all that we've lost and done, my right hand is now a gun. Tell me Inquisitor, were we right?
Is there a soul beneath this shell, and will it go to hell, for all the things Iv done.

If it's not obvious my guys idealism and hot blooded nature was extinguished by the destruction of entire world, the murdered of billions of innocents to stop chaos.

>> No.35521586

God damn phone keyboard fuck you.

>> No.35521751

>DM tells me that my rolled stats are too high, making my character too strong and out of balance in the group
>he doesn't know it's because I'm playing a druid and the rest are martials
>tells everyone to redo stats, this time using point buy 15
>and one or two extra points depending on the luck of the earlier rolls

>mfw I can rebuild the exact same array

>> No.35521986


Maybe the unarmed fighter grew up in an area where conventional weapons aren't available.

Maybe he has an aversion to firearms.

Maybe firearms are too expensive.

Maybe he has a no kill policy.

Maybe he's so strong that he can't handle conventional weaponry without fucking up the internal parts.

Also, guns can jam, you can run out of ammo, you could be in an area where discharging a weapon would put you in a disadvantageous position, who fucking knows.

Not to mention, this is me thinking about it in a realistic manner. In a world where demigods throw mountains, conjure storms, summon demons, and shoot lightning outta their dick, why is the unarmed fighter somehow less conventional to the setting than the guy who plays music to make his allies stronger?

>> No.35522130

I'm not saying that unarmed combat is bad, I'm saying that having it as your main mode of attack is stupid in most settings.

I'm sick and tired of the bullshit "well, if there are wizards, why is it stupid to punch people?"

The thing is, most systems work on their own internal sense of logic and laws of nature. If you want to make a setting where punching people is for whatever in-universe reason just as lethal as shooting them, fine, awesome, lots of people would love it, but stop using that stupid "well one thing is unrealistic so why should anyone bother with any sort of verisimilitude?"

People aren't against settings where you can make a guy that punches dragons to death or whatever, they're against inserting guys that can punch dragons to death in their regular fantasy settings that run on their own principles that would make said character stick out like a sore thumb.

On top of that, the thing being discussed was settings with guns. Nobody mentioned it being some kind of balls to the walls, dragonball, weaboo fightan setting.

>> No.35522143

Fuck puzzles. You can't expect me to believe that this riddle you got from the internet is how Int 30+ lich locks his sanctum. And that my wizard can't even attempt a crack at it because I can't, but the barbarian's player has to sit and stare with boredom at my attempts despite knowing the answer.

>> No.35522248

No, it makes perfectly clear sense.
SOME people in the setting are able to achieve unrealistic results with their actions.

Realistically, waggling your fingers and babbling nonsense does not summon a fireball. For most people in the setting, that still holds true. But this guy does it.

Realistically, punching a demon that can't even be harmed by mundane steel will achieve nothing. For most people in the setting, that still holds true. But this guy has fists that are magical weapons themselves, and he can punch it's head off.

>> No.35522263

Yes it would be terrible if people enjoyed overcoming challenges in any other way than rolling dice.

Shy people should never have to act out dialogue, they should just roll. People should never have to describe their attacks because the're not into swords, they should just roll. People should never have to try to use reason or logic or any form of common sense, they should just roll and let the character handle it.

Why some people should ever be allowed to play anything other than mutes with big muscles who likes to hit things is beyond me.

>I roll to figure out the plot. I have no clue, but my character is hella smart, I dumped stats like mad to max out INT!

>I roll to be charming and funny. I don't know how, but my character is hella charming, I maxed CHA!

If you never intend to actually act the part or try to put yourself in the character's shoes, not just stick to playing someone who's approach to problem solving revolves more around hitting things? That way you can actually role-play and not bore the other people at the table to tears.

>> No.35522346

What you are missing is that in the setting, it's realistic. Someone decided what other set of rules govern the setting and what's possible or not.

You don't just choose between real world and "anything is allowed because fuck realism", most settings have their own set of rules somewhere in the middle, most people understand this.

Some people are able to achieve certain results because of the way the world in the setting works. In LotR, there is magic, Gandalf and others are able to use it. But Aragorn can't punch a troll so hard it head comes off, and there's no people running around with magical fists as some kind of side-effect of there being stuff like dragons in the world. Some things that are "unrealistic" (which in this case means realistic within another setting) are realistic in that setting, other things are still unrealistic. Fire still burns. You can still kill things by poking holes in them. People need air to breathe. Rocks don't fall upwards. But in addition to this, there are some things that are possible in that world, but not in ours. Some, specific things. Not every single conceivable thing.

That doesn't mean that it's "unfair" that just means that people who want to punch trolls heads off or have magic fists should just play in settings where those things are possible and everyone else is agreeing to that by choosing that setting.

It definitely does not mean that you should throw a fit and cry that you should be allowed to make Goku as a lord of the rings character because "magic rings are unrealistic too"

>> No.35522359


>How to go Full Retard: The Post

>> No.35522360


Okay, if you don't like people being able to punch dragons to death because it interferes with your world then why even have unarmed fighter as an option in the first goddamn place?

Also, why have the unarmed fighter be tied to the laws of physics and then have the wizard take those same rules and fuck them over a barrel because "lol magic?"

I mean, a monk already burns ki to make himself stronger, faster, and semi-magical; why not have them being able to stand up against a threat in spite of their being unarmed and unarmored, especially when that's the entire fucking point of the class in the first place?

>> No.35522394

>I got no ranks in diplomacy but I'm a great speaker IRL so I can convince everybody
>I got shit for BAB but because I fence IRL I can totally describe how I win in the duel. I can even do poses if you like.

>> No.35522426


Here's the thing mate, someone with an 18+ in any stat is basically somewhere in the top 1% of the population.

As much as you hate to consider the possibility, even the best roleplayers can't roleplay a character with high stats like that because the average individual may have a 12-14 and may not come up with an answer that an 18+ INT character may be able to figure out just like that.

At the end of the day, if you're not going to use the dice to determine whether or not a given action succeeds or fails then why even have dice in the first place?

>> No.35522440


You're missing another point.

Monks burn ki to do superhuman feats by the RAW and the fluff.

So a dude walking up to a dragon and punching him so hard that he knocks his head off is just as realistic as the wizard waggling his fingers and shooting fire.

>> No.35522953

And you are missing the point that it depends on the setting!

You can't bring up ki and RAW when the thread isn't about a fixed system, jesus. My whole point was that if it's okay in the setting, it's okay in the setting, but a lot of setting doesn't actually have ki-monks and stuff like that.

>> No.35523034

So what you're saying is basically that playing 18+ cha/int characters is basically a way to circumvent obstacles presented by the DM, while not having to role-play, and that this is somehow a good thing?

>> No.35523169

>For some reason my DM doesn't make me roll once I've described what I'm attempting.


>> No.35523351


There's always one fucker. ALWAYS. And, no, before you say
>hurr u antifun for not allow punchman epic karate
I tolerated that shit. And it resulted in nothing but autistic animu tropes that he didn't think everyone at the table knew and cringed to, as well as
>I run up the wall, climb into the window, and throw the archer out
>alright, roll
>rolls 6
>You start running up the wall, but didn't get enough of a foothold on the VERTICAL WALL, and fall flat on your ass.
>but your skills that don't actually give bonuses to climb, acrobatics, athletics, or ninja shit, as well as your regular "I PUNCH him" whenever an NPC says something you don't want to hear

Honestly, it never turns out fun for someone to play a punchguy, it just ends up retarded and frustrating for everyone at the table, with the very rare exception of a few of /tg/'s stories.

>> No.35523428

no, the average individual has 10s in every stat.

A blacksmith has 12s in str, int, and wis because he's a little stronger for pounding metal, and he's gotta know its properties and the "feel" of it. An excellent blacksmith will simply have higher increments of those stats.

A farmer would be much the same, just replace Int with Con.

The average D&D player will have higher than average intelligence/wisdom, and sometimes higher than average other stats, but generally this isn't the case.

Your point does still hold though, there's almost no way for someone to viably RP someone with an 18 in a stat.

>> No.35523921

The problem is playing what is basically a flair-based, freeform fighter when the rules demand and expect very constrained things. Pathfinder is NOT the system for that. At best, you can roll combat as usual and then tack on the fluffy descriptions as an afterthought.

>> No.35524347

Honestly, the best way to deal with things like these is by having the player roll for the relevant action and then letting him add fluff and flair if he succeeds.
Alternatively, you can play a game where you're free to fluff out your actions however you want (Double Cross is one example).

>> No.35524657

This is one of the rules I clarify before DMing.

>He who rolls describes successes
>He who DMs describes failures

That way the players describe an attempt, roll, and if they succeed, they, within reason, describe what their character does based on the degree to which they surpassed the DC. If they fail, I, within reason, describe how their attempt fails. No, I don't do retarded, debilitating punishments unless those are well deserved considering the attempt. Yes, pulling a guy out of a guillotine could result in your hand getting cut off, big deal.

The problem I have isn't with their repeated attempts to make something kinda cool happen, it's with their repeated attempts to emulate DBZ, Bleach, and other such trash, and blathering on about how truly unique in power their character is for using their fists. It's like none of them know about modest monks, and only ever play tryhard buff assholes who can't take no for an answer.

Name (leave empty)
Comment (leave empty)
Password [?]Password used for file deletion.