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[ERROR] No.35367992 [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

So what's the purpose of the Simarilli? What use do they have other than make people jelly and cause feuds?

>> No.35368009

Well, they, like, bright and all. There was no sun yet, so, um, for that purpose.

>> No.35368019

let's start with a simpler question:
>what is LIGHT in tolkien's world and why is it important?

>> No.35368031

I don't think you understand quite how shiny and beautiful they are

>> No.35368089

I hate this moe shit.

It'd be fine if it was actually drawn by someone who was Japanese.

>> No.35368184

they're jewels. you put them on things, eg. crowns.

at least one giant abominable spider considers them tasty.

>> No.35368229

Okay, so the Silmarils were made by Feanor, leader of the elves of Nothor, who was awesome at everything. He put his heart and soul into crafting gems. These were the Silmarils. Now, some background: at the time, the light in the world came from either a, fire, b, the stars, or c, one of two giant, glowing trees (silver or gold depending on the time of day). The Silmarils had some of this tree-light-essencey stuff inside of them, which made them powerfully good, incredibly glowy, and invincible to every kind of physical force. Then Melkor did his shenanigans and stole them, Feanor came down with the stupid and cursed all his descendants to chase them to the ends of the earth, and Ungoliant ate one and then left.
So the reason they were made is similar to the reason art is made; because it's pretty, because it's nice to look at, and because it's something to do other than sit around waiting for humans to show up.

>> No.35368266

>I hate this moe shit.
>It'd be fine if it was actually drawn by someone who was Japanese.

you are the reason so many people hate weeaboos

>> No.35368273

Come on. Even 14 year olds know this shit. Light and heat are intrinsically linked, without the sun, no life is possible.

This is basic physics anon. No reason to think Tolkien didn't mean just that.

>> No.35368292

I always saw it as part of this great scheme in Tolkien's work that material things of great beauty (Erebor's riches, The One Ring and The Silmarils) have a corrupting influence on mortals/lesser beings. Which feeds into his resounding theme of "power corrupts".

Just a reflection of his Catholic upbringing and distaste for greed and industrialism

>> No.35368303

I feel I should tell this story in a little more... Evocative way.

Feanor Invents bling.

okay so Feanor is born
and Melkor is out of jail
what could possibly go wrong?

to start with, Feanor makes a bunch of jewels called the Silmarils
and what are these silmarils everyone is so wild about?
that’s pretty rad
but like
i’m not sure what it means in practical terms
as far as I can tell these is just some pretty-ass gems
that are enchanted so that evil people cannot handle them
without their hands melting off

i mean i guess his general MO is just “fuck shit up”
with no consideration as to personal gain
like he’s passed straight on through self-interest into the hatefuck zone
but still
dude’s a musician
a speed metal guitarist, if history is to be believed
dude needs his hands

>> No.35368328

so instead of just jacking these pretty gems
Melkor begins an incredibly sneaky PR campaign
cause oh shit i forgot to tell you some stuff

so remember I said Feanor’s mom used 3 dudeworths of energy to make Feanor
well apparently that kills you when you do that
so Finwe (Feanor’s dad) is suitably bummed about this
but he’s not a fucking priest
he gets married again pretty quick
and has more kids
and since Finwe is king of the elves
(or at least king of the Noldor
who are the only elves this story is really about from now on)
that means that his sons are elf princes
which means they are going to have to be dicks to each other

so Melkor wisely takes advantage of this
and starts wandering around the kingdom
paying all kinds of backhanded compliments to the Valar
and totally negging on them in all kinds of subtle ways
making everybody think the Valar brought the elves to Party Island
just to keep them from having an awesome time all over the rest of the world
and so they could make the elves their slaves
he even tells them about humans
even though he doesn’t really know much about humans
because during the whole creation song he was pretty focused on his own riffs
he’s basically just like DUDES
even though that’s total bullshit
humans take no guff from anyone

>> No.35368344

>> No.35368348

anyway the elves are starting to get all grumpy at the Valar
and so Melkor moves on to stage 2
he goes to Feanor and he’s like yo dude
I think the Valar are going to try and help your bro Fingolfin stage a coup
because Fingolfin has agreed to be pussywhipped by the Valar forever
and then he goes over to Fingolfin and he’s like BRO
you should watch out for Feanor, man
dude is a loose cannon
so suddenly these two powerful elf dudes are all suspicious of each other
and they start making weapons and shit
and hiding them
and walking around with shields on all the time
and everybody thinks they are the only ones who know about this
because melkor has been so crafty with all his lies
but except how does no one realize what’s up

well according to tolkien
it’s because liars are guaranteed success
like check it out, here’s what he actually says:
“He that sows lies in the end shall not lack of a harvest
and soon he may rest from toil indeed while others reap and sow in his stead”
lying sounds AWESOME
i need to get on that shit

anyway everybody finally flies off the handle
and Fingolfin goes to Finwe’s house like Dude
Feanor is totally a loose cannon and he is totally trying to stir up rebellion
so obviously finwe calls the cops
by which I mean the Valar
and they are like Feanor
what the fuck are you doing man
who told you we were trying to enslave all the elves?
and Feanor is like uh
and everyone is like OH SHIT WHAT A SURPRISE

>> No.35368368

I'm not the one drawing poor chibi fanart.

>> No.35368375

So they send Tulkas off to go try to kill Melkor
but he turns into some clouds and flies away
and meanwhile they can’t have Feanor running around being a loose cannon
so they kick him off the force
by which I mean they kick him out of the city for 12 years
and he takes his seven sons and goes and chills out inside a mountain with his treasure
and Finwe comes too because he likes Feanor better than his other lame sons
and Melkor really wants those Silmarils so he goes over to Feanor’s place
and he’s like yoooo buddyyyy
sorry about the whole exile thing
I can totally help you get back to the mainland and shit
i mean it’s not like those shiny jewels of yours are safe here in Valar towne
and he calls the cops (by which I mean the Valar)
but Melkor turns into more clouds and escapes before they can catch him
and he leaves Valinor and everything is real nice for a real long time

because shit ain’t terrible yet
but just as obviously it is the end for tonight
because I am sleepy

So the moral of the story
is that lying is great and has no consequences

>> No.35368403

ye of little faith...
you could read it like that, but it wouldn't make a lot of sense.
it's so biblical it's silly, but tolkien is all about the light of god destroying the darkness.

>> No.35368805

I remember reading about this - funny thing, I actually just wanted to know why gandalf and frodo left with the elves at the end of the movie.

Same shit with the lexicanum, some stuff is just to good.

>> No.35368835

Beauty does not need to be "useful" you crass buffoon and a beautiful thing not having a practical application is not a strike against it.

>> No.35368970


What's the purpose of jewelry in general?

>> No.35369124

Yavanna did want the Silmarils to attempt to revive the trees using them and Feanor was all "Fuck you Big Y" so you had to be able to do something with them besides get absorbed in their awesomeness.

Magic in Tolkien is subtle, unless it really, really isn't.

>> No.35369128

Would you ruin fucking everything ever for a gem

>> No.35369176

Not Feanor's fault. It's Melkor's Fault for ruining the song.
And indirectly, Eru's for being a dick and letting it happen instead of starting over.

>> No.35369212

If it's a Silmaril? Fuck you I'm torching a country to get that thing.

>> No.35369226

It isn't God's responsibility to clean up after the actions of wicked beings, you know.

>> No.35369256

Would you also murder a bunch of dudes for boats, sail off, re-steal the boats and then burn them just to be a dick?

>> No.35369260


He's a despoiler of Things As They Are Meant To Be. He want them because it a) tell everyone to fuck themselves, since HE is the guy with the awesomest bling, and b) it's a big "fuck you" to the Elves in particular, because HE stole the things that represented the highest point of their awesomeness.

Depending on Tolkien's mood, Evil in his verse could not create, only twist, and would not win, only cause a lot of damage before being defeated. So, by stealing the Silmarils, good ol' Morgoth is basically the closest from victory he'll ever be. And that's burning him.

>> No.35369269

>not just an egomaniac
He's only evil once we get to the micro cosmos of middle earth. Outside of that, he's just an arrogant egomaniac.

>> No.35369286

It's a fucking story time dude. I didn't write that, don't go and fucking patronize me.

>> No.35369292

If they were in the way of me getting my Simarils? Yes.
captcha: theineue Order
Apparently, the Ineue Order would as well.

>> No.35369315

You're acting like being an arrogant egomaniac whilst singing the cosmos into being is an amoral situation. Melkor is an evil dick from the beginning, he just didn't hit his stride until he got within the world.

I dunno, are they trying to stop me and mine from getting the Silmaril? If yes, probably yes.

>> No.35369338

>are they trying to stop me and mine from getting the Silmaril?
Not really. They're just kinda skeptical and possibly asking you to pony up some fucking cash for all these boats. Boats are expensive.

>> No.35369366


They're REALLY shiny.

>> No.35369391

Well if they aren't impeding me, I won't kill them. As soon as they are actively trying to prevent me from getting that fucking jewel, out come the swords.

>> No.35369520

>i mean i guess his general MO is just “fuck shit up”

Pretty much, yeah.

>> No.35369543

>Riding your waifu while holding stolen loot

An Evil Bard if there ever was one

>> No.35369561

>[Melkor’s] a musician
>a speed metal guitarist, if history is to be believed

Couldn't the Valars and Maia have resolved their issues with more music and less violence? A battle of the bands?

>> No.35369575

>Magic in Tolkien is subtle, unless it really, really isn't.

>> No.35369588

They tried at the start of Creation, it resulted in shitting everything up for everyone

>> No.35369618

I'd really love androgynous Melkor and Sauron if they weren't drawn by some tumblr fangirl horror from beyond the sea of privileges.

>> No.35369622

I feel now is the time to tell the tale of Melkor's spotlight stealing act.
The Jam session that Created the Universe.

So there’s some dudes
oh wait shit i got ahead of myself
first there’s only one dude
his name is Iluvatar
(but with an accent over the u
but fuck accents this is america)
but then Iluvatar has him some thoughts
and those thoughts turn into other dudes
and those other dudes are called the Ainur

so Iluvatar lines up all these Ainur
and he’s like alright dudes
I have called you all here today
because I have a great idea for a band
you see
some bands rock hard
some bands even rock out with their cocks out
my friends
we are going to rock out so hard
we are going to INVENT COCKS
and EVERYTHING ELSE, actually.
Everyone thinks this is mad sweet
so they all gather round
and Iluvatar teaches them
and then he’s like okay dudes
now it is time
for you
to JAM

so all these Ainu are jamming out
busting mad solos on their celestial instruments and whatnot
and Iluvatar is sitting in his arm chair all pleased
but then this one Ainu named Melkor has to come along
and stick his dick in the porridge, so to speak

>> No.35369631

Here’s Melkor’s deal:
he is by far the most gifted musician out of all these dudes
he’s like if Orpheus was playing a Bach concierto on a piano made of Mozarts
dude is a prodigy is what I am trying to say
so obviously he doesn’t feel the need to show up to celestial band practice
and instead spends most of his time wandering through the void
looking for the sacred flame that animates all creation
you know
like ya do.

But if H.P. Lovecraft has taught us anything
(and I’m not saying that he has)
it is that wandering through the void is an excellent way to go TOTALLY CRAZY
so Melkor basically morphs into a huge asshole
and shows up at the big important Ainu dress rehearsal totally wasted
[warning: electric guitars are not strictly a canonical part of this myth
but they are a strictly canonical part of any totally sweet band
so suck it]

so everyone is jamming with the sweet riffs Iluvatar gave them
and meanwhile Melkor is just shredding over there on his axe
paying less than no attention to the rhythm or key or anything
and eventually the dudes who are standing near him are like holy shit
this music makes my blood want to shoot out my skull and start doing pushups
fuck Iluvatar’s pussy-ass music of creation
it is time for some goddamn THRASH METAL UP IN HERE

>> No.35369659

so dudes start drop-tuning their harps and lyres and organs
and whatever other lame shit you use when you’re not playing speed metal
and within ten minutes Iluvatar’s sweet heavenly orchestra
has become Melkor’s doombattle moshpit slaughterhouse
so Iluvatar stands up
all slow and confident
and he puts up his left hand
and suddenly this new riff starts up
and it’s pretty sweet, and it’s actually managing to pull the song together a bit
but then Melkor is like FUCK DAT
and starts biting the heads off chickens and whatnot
beating his guitar against his face and eating rusty nails
so Iluvatar stands up again
and this time he looks a little peeved
and he puts up his right hand
and ANOTHER riff starts up
all beautiful and placid and harmonic and shit
but Melkor is having none of it
he is just mashing power chords with the amps turned up to gazillion
so finally Iluvatar gets REAL PISSED
and he puts BOTH hands up
and the music just STOPS
and he’s like way to go guys
look what you did:

>> No.35369687

so he gives them all the power of sight
because up to this point
we were just dealing with an entire orchestra of brilliant Stevie Wonders
and BAM
they all see the world that their music has apparently been making
no one told them this would happen
they just thought they were having a sweet jam sesh
and the world is AWESOME
and Iluvatar is like yeah i know it’s awesome
guys this was my plan
even your shit, Melkor
I planned that too
like all that fire and ice and lava and shit?
that is where we get snowflakes and rain and … and rad lava
so everyone wins!
and everyone is looking at this world
and all their licks and riffs and meedlies are encoded in the terrain
and they are totally getting their minds blown
and then DUDES start showing up
humans and elves!
and Iluvatar is like okay who wants to go live in this new world
and everyone is like OH ME ME ME
so they go to earth and become the Valar
except joke’s on them
because that shit they saw?
that was just a vision of how things are GOING to be
so now earth is just a screaming ball of magma and junk
and they are the ones who have to do the hard work of building it
so humans and elves can just show up and party

>> No.35369702

so naturally these dudes are pretty pissed
the main guys who got suckered into this
are Ulmo, who is mainly in charge of water
Manwe, who does wind stuff
Aule, who is a geology nerd
and Melkor who is an asshole
also Melkor invents fire
which is good
but he invents it by torching all of the other stuff
so, not as good

so imagine yourself in this situation
you’ve just been promised a paradise based on a sweet track you recorded
you pay the security deposit, sign the lease
and now you are stuck in a hell of fire and low property values
while your dick friend tries to immolate everything you own

naturally the outcome is ceaseless wars
the Valor keep trying to build shit
and Melkor just keeps setting it on fire
over and over again
until finally the valor succeed in making something vaguely resembling a world
and all the humans and elves show up
and the valor all put on human and elf skins
because when they’re naked they’re just invisible
which is actually a pretty okay superpower depending on your body image
and Melkor doesn’t want them to have all the fun
so he tries to assume physical form too
but he is too metal for humanity, so he turns into a VOLCANO
and then more wars
but eventually less wars
and now, people!

So the moral of the story
is that shitty music is literally destroying the world.

>> No.35369721


Isn't Phobs a dude?

>> No.35369843

>Couldn't the Valars and Maia have resolved their issues with more music and less violence? A battle of the bands?
That's what they did, a lot of magic is sung.
Just read the duel between Sauron and Finrod.
They were basically flyting except that their burns actually burned.

Luthien Tinuviel sang a song so soothing that it put Morgoth to sleep and sang a song so sad that it brought Beren back from the dead.

>> No.35370040

Slightly better. But is he drawing them androgynously for LGBTWTFBBQ visibility and representation, or just because angelic beings should be angelic?

I'm sorry, but these are the cold wars we must fight and the shadow games we must play, nowadays.

>> No.35370070

Or you're making something out of nothing. If it's good art, I'll take it.

>> No.35370082

Melkor looks pretty masculine, but Sauron is straight androgynous.

>> No.35370328


As far as I know, it has nothing to do with either; Phobs just wanted to "explore" Mairon and Morgoth's relationship.

>> No.35373690

Wasn't Sauron able to shapechange anyway?

>> No.35374788

Sauron spent no small amount of time as a Wolf at one point

>> No.35377800

man you are a good story teller. that was fun to read.

>> No.35378185


>> No.35378316

Or it could be because he wanted to dick Sauron.

>> No.35378338

I think he took it from here

>> No.35378344

Light is life and linked to goodness, something that 4channers will never understand

>> No.35378398

Let's be honest.
Who here DOESN'T want to dick Sauron?

>> No.35378733


People'd dick Sauron in any encarnation, be it a giant, spooky skeleton, wolf, or disembodied evil presence represented as some kind of malicious smoke.

>> No.35379117

>People'd dick Sauron in any encarnation

Choose your poison.

>> No.35379208

Androgynous or not, that fella draws a mean insane corrupted demigod

>> No.35379237

looks nice man

>> No.35379496


Now see, this is pretty fucking cool.

>> No.35379545


Now that's what I call a good illustration of a fall from grace.

>> No.35379717


Other people almost always tell Tolkien's mythology better than Tolkien did. Like, if you hear someone summarize it, Tolkein's Mythos is pretty fucking metal. But you try to read the Silmarillion, you'll pass out like, half way through.

>> No.35379756

Could someone cap this?

>> No.35380559

>not dicking Sauron in the guise of Annatar

Guys come on.

>> No.35380603

>power corrupts

Not always. It ennobled Aragorn

>> No.35380620

>Melkor is a nigger

Makes sense

>> No.35380639

Yeah but it was legitimate power. Tolkien had no trouble about people having more power than others, just about the people that *wanted* more power.

>> No.35380760

Fair point

>> No.35380785

I'll do better: Here's the site he stole it from
Speed metal, and metal in general, are huge among neo-nazis.
Makes me really unhappy, because metal is great, and nazis are not.

>> No.35384141

>and Fingolfin goes to Finwe’s house like Dude
Feanor is totally a loose cannon and he is totally trying to stir up rebellion
>so obviously finwe calls the cops

I'm dying.

>> No.35384219

They were unique, which made them really fucking valuable. They were also made by the worlds greatest craftsman so they were beautiful, which also made them really fucking valuable.
Pretty much the most valuable objects in the world.

>> No.35384293

>You're a loose cannon, Feanor! One more stunt like that and you can kiss goodbye to your badge

>> No.35386598

They are really fucking pretty. They're pure magical light and not even God can make new ones. They also metaphorically represent, and because of magic therefore quite literally support and enable, goodness. So if someone actually manages to break one without the others then the world permanently becomes less good.

>> No.35387172


Yes, I get it. They are the nicest jewelry ever; super shiny and perfectly cut.

But no one ever started a centuries-long war for the British Crown Jewels, no kinslaying ever took place because of the Mona Lisa, no feud was started (that we know of) because of the Venus of Willendorf.

Why even create something like that? It only brought suffering into the world.

Art so beautiful you will literally kill for it. Terrible idea.

>> No.35387372

That's because none of those were stolen by the equivalent of Satan from the world's angriest elf.

>> No.35387389


>Art so beautiful you will literally kill for it. Terrible idea.

Only for the plebs who can't make such art.

>> No.35387502

I think perhaps you do not grasp the extent of their shininess.

Oh yeah also when Ungoliant destroys the Two Trees of Valinor, darkening the world forever, the Silmarils that captured a fraction of their light were a way to bring them back. Quoth Feanor: fuck that, I got dibs, hodang Melkor just stole them, guess the only way to return light to the world is VAST QUANTITIES OF ELFMURDER.

>> No.35388100

The best kinds of murder.

>> No.35388149

The rocks were so pretty the Dwarves killed one of the most powerful Elf lords ever just for the CHANCE of keeping it

>> No.35388163

And destroyed an impregnable fortress which was guarded by angel magic

>> No.35388778


Cause they are magic. They contain the last light of the two trees.

>> No.35389167

They are essentially all miniature suns. The sun was of a derivative substance of what made the Silmarils.

They're hella powerful.

>> No.35389234

To be fair, it was mostly just *undetectable* you would just get lost in the woods and come out somewhere else until Melian peaces out

>> No.35389292


If you had the chance to OWN THE SUN wouldn't you?

The sun & moon are weaksauce shit that the Valar made from a few drops of sap because they couldn't remake the Trees. Each Silmaril is better than the sun because they have the LIGHT of the trees.

>> No.35390071

>Ungoliant ate one and then left
Wrong. Melkor refused to give her any, she tried to kill him, so Melkor called up his posse to chase her off.

>> No.35390280

>If you had the chance to OWN THE SUN wouldn't you?

If it would mean fucking everything for everyone, no, I think I like them where they are,

>> No.35390420

I just don't think you understand the fact that the jewels can be beautiful and powerful without having a function, like a widget or something.

They are powerful because of what they inherently *are* and they are beautiful because Feanor decided to make them aesthetically pleasing.

>> No.35390530

The people who fought over the Silmarils all had "good" reasons for it:
>Feanor made the Silmarils and was highly possessive of them, as well as batshit crazy
>Feanor's sons were manipulated by their dad to swear an oath to reclaim the Silmarils and had to follow it because muh honor
>Morgoth wanted to screw everyone over all the time and stealing the Silmarils was an excellent way of doing so
>Ungoliant grew more powerful as she ate pretty things and the Silmarils were the prettiest things around
>Thingol sent Beren to steal a Silmaril as a suicide quest, he didn't expect him to succeed
>Beren stole the Silmaril so he could marry his elf girlfriend
>Dorfs gonna dorf

>> No.35390599

>Manipulated into swearing an oath to recover their collective birthright.

That's not really much of a manipulation, and the rashness and overbreadth of the Oath's terms? A product of the passion of the moment that even Ainur stated Illuvatar would never hold against them and they only bore it because of pride.

>> No.35391449

>they only bore it because of pride
Elves gonna Elf

>> No.35391735

Dude. Just One Simaril gave an Elf enough power to fucking murder the most badass Dragon ever.

>> No.35391785

there's no indication the silmaril had anything to do with it.

the silmarils do burn evil, but not enough to stop morgorth going around with them. they're not weapons.

>> No.35391857

They're not weapons, they're powerups.

Could Earendil have slain Ancalagon without a magic jewel holding the light of Creation? Maybe, but I'm pretty damn skeptical.

>> No.35392088

There's a difference between warding off a bear cub with a stick, and trying to use one on a pissed off adult grizzly

>> No.35396550

Dorfs gotta dorf man. You can't stop the dorfing.

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