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File: 55 KB, 1280x720, The.Lion.King.1994.BluRay.720p.x264.YIFY.mp4_snapshot_00.28.11_[2014.08.13_19.44.42].jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
34110132 No.34110132 [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

Is this a proper representation of a Lawful Evil Bard?

>> No.34110223


No, he's Neutral Evil.

And I ain't lion

>> No.34110249
File: 50 KB, 393x400, No.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]


>> No.34110288


>> No.34110347

Holy shit, that movie is as old as I am and it looks just gorgeous still.

>> No.34110471
File: 9 KB, 312x252, 1287369077163.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]


I deserved that, but I still think he's a better example of Neutral Evil than Lawful Evil.

There really aren't that many examples of LE in animation.

>> No.34112159

Technically regicide can be 'lawful', if done in accordance to rules or traditions which the individual in question places above temporal law.

>> No.34112179
File: 12 KB, 369x338, 375429_1265573481487_15res_369_338.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

You know. Except this guy.

>> No.34112373
File: 429 KB, 720x540, Law and Evil.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

>There really aren't that many examples of LE in animation.


>> No.34112421
File: 23 KB, 271x350, Fuhrer_5.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

>Lawful Evil Bard

>> No.34112906

Jafar from Aladdin?

>> No.34113003
File: 2.99 MB, 315x182, 1395251172865.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

>> No.34113186

>breaks a deal he makes in order to kill the shit out of the street rat he promised a reward to.

>> No.34113189


Lawful - reinforcing or commanding a code to follow
Evil - The ends justify the means.

>Murders brother so he can rule instead

Neutral Evil would have been simply murdering Mufasa out of jealously with no other motive.

Chaotic Evil would have been if he had Murdered Mufasa and let the hyenas run rampant without order.

>> No.34113234

Neutral Evil.

He wants to be Sultan, sure, but only because it commands power and respect. He has no desire to 'rule' or any agenda to impose on the population. He simply wants power - which is why he jumps at the chance to go full genie as soon as it pops up.

>> No.34113257
File: 53 KB, 815x479, Scar_Pridelands.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

>let the hyenas run rampant without order
But he did. Did you not see the pridelands after a couple of years

>> No.34113280


U wot m8

>> No.34113301

He commanded the hyenas.

Scar's only downfall was that there was a huge drought at the same time he usurped power. Had there not been a drought, the pridelands might have prospered under a fascist rule.

>> No.34113322

Ozai from Avatar

>> No.34113365

>The ends justify the means.
That isn't evil. Evil is to be self serving to the point of other's detriment and good tends to be giving to the point of self sacrifice.

He is still lawful evil because he is the lawgiver but he is arbitrary and selfish. Practically the only time you can be lawful evil is by being a tyrant or the willing follower of a tyrant for your benefit.

>> No.34113447

He things, has a huge talent at twisting the impressionable to his purposes and manipulates the environment in semi-magical ways.

>> No.34113480

Really most of the fire nation was LE

>> No.34113616



Dude, the Pridelands going Mordor have nothing to do with hyenas. Even the hungriest predators can't provoke a drought. And especialy not stopping a river from flowing.

Unless they pissed off beavers that somehow got into Africa.

This is a good exemple of LE, at the start of the movie at least.

Well, you could say that his true downfall was being too crazy to leave a land where there was an huge drought. And blaming the hyenas for everything.

>> No.34113689

Your definition certainly fits, true.

But, Ends justify the means is my go-to explanation for LE. You could argue Emperor Palpatine is LE not because he simply wanted to murder innocent people, but because he wanted to bring peace to the galaxy through the dark side of the force. Anything to obtain the ultimate goal was worth it, including blowing up a peaceful Allderaan.

>> No.34113712

I can't even imagine how Scar fucked up that badly. Was his first order upon being king was that the hyenas and the lions had to drink literally all the water?

>> No.34113765

>You could argue Emperor Palpatine is LE not because he simply wanted to murder innocent people, but because he wanted to bring peace to the galaxy through the dark side of the force.
Except that wasn't what the Emperor wanted, AT ALL.

>> No.34113816

You're missing the point. Bards have to be Chaotic just like Paladins have to be LG.

>> No.34113850

Because they're animals
And animals are stupid

>> No.34113858

I remember some line from one of the movies he said "And now.. there can be peace" or some shit.

>> No.34113894

>Dude, the Pridelands going Mordor have nothing to do with hyenas. Even the hungriest predators can't provoke a drought. And especialy not stopping a river from flowing.

But there's magic.

>> No.34113915

That's what he said to Anakin after he slaughtered the Jedi, because Anakin was a bit unstable right then and saying "Buahaha now I can rule the galaxy as a vicious despot" would have gotten his head sliced off.

>> No.34113938

But some animals are more equal than the others.
I mean more stupid.

>> No.34114032

The Emperor didn't want peace he wanted power and control through fear. "Peace" in that everyone would be to scared to fight each other and risk his wrath was just a side effect.

The end justifying the means can only be used by people with authority over others if they are to have any chance of being in any form good, and it is preferable that lives are not involved. Like a parent getting the child a flu shot or something. It stings and the kids arm is sore, they hated it, but now they won't painfully die form swine flu.

>> No.34114051 [DELETED] 
File: 136 KB, 1216x720, Rafiki.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

>But there's magic.

You mean the monkey did this? He caused the drougth to make sure Scar's rule would be shit?

>Rafiki is an eco-terrorist

well shit

>> No.34114086
File: 136 KB, 1216x720, Rafiki.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

>But there's magic.

You mean the monkey did this? He caused the drougth to make sure Scar's rule would be shit?

Rafiki is an eco-terrorist

well shit

>> No.34114190

no real surprise here

>> No.34114448

>You mean the monkey did this?

Or the vengeful lion cloud gods.

>> No.34114613

Both of those make a terrifying amount of sense.

Really it's shit like this that ruins my childhood memories more than the porn does.

>> No.34114703

>Rafiki is an eco-terrorist

You now realize that Scar was Stalin + Lenin and Rafiki represents the intelligentsia fighting back to protect the status quo.

>> No.34114737
File: 150 KB, 500x375, if you are not satisfied don't blame me, BLAME MY FRIENDS ON OTHEEER SSIDE!.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]


>> No.34114823
File: 14 KB, 300x451, 48.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

Why hasn't this been posted yet?

>> No.34114860

Literally 4 minutes ago was a youtube link to his villian song.

>> No.34115166

How the goddamn shit is he holding those cards

>> No.34115246

With the help of his friends on the other side.

>> No.34115279


>> No.34115342

Just a little parlor trick.

>> No.34115415


He would probably be glad to not be lawful, though.

>> No.34115449

It's his friends that are the lawful ones and they have ultimate power over him.

>> No.34115553

maybe it's a Fisher King type deal and whoever has priderock affects the landscape

>> No.34115618

From the little I know about occult, I'd say voodoo Netural on law-chaos scale. Spirits have little care for following or disrupting wordly order.

>> No.34116225

>Spirits have little care for following or disrupting wordly order.
Except for the ones that do. And the ones that care to follow worldly order usually have very little to do with voodoo.

>> No.34116238

except they specifically said they over-hunted all their prey til they left, and that set the circle of life out of balance.

>> No.34116361

In Simba/Mufasa's kingdom, since apparently all the species that weren't hyena were all united under their rule, what did the carnivores eat?

>> No.34116391
File: 141 KB, 250x250, frustrated loli.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

But he kills his brother, that is against the law.

He should be chaotic since he tries to destroy the current set of rules in the country and make himself king.

Lawful - following laws

Neutral - does not follow the laws

Chaotic - actively trying to destroy the hierarchy and impose a new system.

>> No.34116439

>But he kills his brother, that is against the law.
No it isn't, they're just animals, they don't have laws
That's just the Rules of Nature

>> No.34116459

>what did the carnivores eat?
Simba specifically asked his dad and he answered in the affirmative.

So yea, they do eat their citizens. Let that realization sink in for a bit.

>> No.34116526

>But he kills his brother, that is against the law.
Maybe it isn't against his law.

Lawful does not refer to the rules of the state or even gods. Lawful refers to the individual in question. Does he have a set of laws or code of conduct that guides him?

>> No.34116724

Lion King was based off of Hamlet and other works of Shakespeare. In reneissance drama, when a rightful king is usurped it invokes the wrath of heaven and the imbalance of nature, because a king is divinely mandated

Scar caused the drought by usurping the rightful king as ordained by the cloud lion gods, and disrupting the natural order by bringing the scavengers out of the bone lands. Within a relatively short time of Simba becoming king, Life is returned to the Pridelands.

>> No.34116772

>Maybe it isn't against his law.
>Lawful does not refer to the rules of the state or even gods. Lawful refers to the individual in question. Does he have a set of laws or code of conduct that guides him?

Eh, no.

As I said before;

lawful follows the laws.

Neutral does not follow any laws and do as they please.

Chaotic see a system and activly are trying to destroy it.

Here is an example;

There is a sign that states that people must keep of the grass.

A lawful person will not thread on the grass, even if he wants to.

A neutral person will thread on the grass if he wants to.

A chaotic person will thread on the grass even if he doesn't want to.

>> No.34116790

No. Thus making Scar Neutral Evil. Most Disney villains are, because Disney cannot into subtlety.

That guy from Frozen might be considered Lawful Evil because he tries to assume control of the kingdom through marriage and legal assent. Though he goes full NE retard at the end

>> No.34116822

>Though he goes full NE retard at the end
That, Sven and the AAAANGST really killed the movie for me.

>> No.34116891

The angst wasn't that bad. I've seen far worse for pettier reasons and Sven is pretty ignorable and mostly exists to help poke fun at all the tropes Disney has relied on for the past decades.

Then again I'm biased because I like the movie for all the incest subtext.

>> No.34116894

to be fair, he was pretty much caught out when his princess needed "true loves kiss" to save her life. With no way to provide the kiss, that sort of killed his con.

>> No.34116928

There isn't any incest subtext. There isn't any lesbian subtext. People need to stop projecting their bias' onto whats a pretty simple movie

>> No.34116933

This is so incredibly wrong.

>> No.34117033

So you think the Paladin has to surrender himself for execution when he enters the evil wizards kingdom? Or that he cannot kill corrupt or unjust kings/judges/sheriffs because its 'against the law'?

>> No.34117044

Because changing from the usual romantic love saves the day schtick to family love saves the day leaves absolutely no room for unintentional subtext and implications.

>> No.34117179

It was intentional. It was meant to be a subversion of the existent tropes and to highlight FAMILIAL LOVE.

It does not mean 'lol they boning'.

Red Head hooks up with Big nose mountain man. They're the perennial oddcouple. Deal with it.

>> No.34117236

Actually, it's never said. It's just said there is no more food (probably because the drought) and that it's the job of the lionesses to get it.

>> No.34117246
File: 146 KB, 381x353, Goliathwat.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

>lawful follows the laws.

What the fuck am I even reading?

>> No.34117353


Voodoo, no problem.

Hoodoo? Big fucking problem.

>> No.34117383

I know what they intended. What I'm saying is that their subversion makes us have to compare the movie to every single other movie with the same basic plot points, hence the fandom.

Plus the sisters dialogue sounds like awkward teenage flirting at times.

>> No.34117431

>Lawful - following laws
No. This is not what the lawful part of DnD alignment means. At least, not inherently. Being lawful means that you have a sense of order and routine, you're organized in action and most likely follow a code of some sort, either a personal one or a more communal one. This includes following laws of a certain kingdom, but it's not limited solely to that.

Being Lawful Evil means that you're systematic in your evil. It means that you're either using laws to oppress and tyrannize people for your own gain, or you're following a code of conduct or similar set of guidelines that promotes evil acts. It does not mean simply being evil while following the laws of the kingdom/nation/area that you're in.

>> No.34117464

This so much.

Otherwise, as said above, the Paladin would basically be required to execute himself if an evil Wizard took over the kingdom and outlawed Paladins.

>> No.34117481

>Trying to stage a drunken coup with his beer buddies

>> No.34117495


>Lawful - Follows the laws

As best they possibly can.

>Neutral - does not follow the laws

Wrong. They follow the laws. Until they become inconvenient, then they don't give two shits about breaking them to accomplish a desired goal.

>Chaotic - actively trying to destroy the hierarchy and impose a new system

Nope. Chaos doesn't or cannot recognize laws or morality. They do what they want for whatever reason they want.

You want to protect a crib full of infants? That is good. To do so, you will have murder the king and a good chunk of his soldiers who believe one of the kids will turn out to rise against them in the future. Welcome to Chaotic Good. Fuck the law, you won't let anything hurt them babies.

Lawful Good would have you hand the kids over because your faith in the system is rock solid and you believe the king is looking out for the good of the people, even if you don't necessarily agree with his methods, you trust him to be wiser than you are.

>> No.34117503

No, then he would be a chaotic paladin. Since he would try and change the leadership of a nation. If he did this to make it a better place he would be a chaotic good paladin until he succeeded or died.

Remember; a successful rebel leader becomes a founding father.

>> No.34117507

So if being evil was against the law lawful evil would no longer exist?

>> No.34117597

>Wrong. They follow the laws. Until they become inconvenient, then they don't give two shits about breaking them to accomplish a desired goal.
That means that they do not follow the laws.

Nope. Chaos doesn't or cannot recognize laws or morality. They do what they want for whatever reason they want.

That's just how you described neutral.

>> No.34117615

>Your Post
>So incredibly fucking wrong

Ok. So, Lawful actually means you follow a code. It -MIGHT- be the law of your kingdom/fief, it might be the codes of your particular faith, it might be your own personal ethic code.

Neutral is middle of the road. Neutral is pointing to the sub-alignment [good, neutral, evil], and saying "Hey. That's what I am. I am just a guy trying to get by at being good/not caring/being evil.

Chaotic is not actively trying to destroy a system. They are either trying to fill the holes in a system, correct what they perceive as a wrong system, or trying to institute anarchy/darwinism.

>> No.34117616

>It does not mean 'lol they boning'.
Correct, it just implies it

Seriously, you don't overturn thirty+ years of tradition THAT YOUR OWN COMPANY BUILT UP and expect people to not carry over previous biases about those tropes.

Disney fucking brainwashed the world into thinking that anything involving the word "Love" and waking someone up/unpetrifying them/removing whatever curse from them means SERIOUS ROMANTIC LOVE SHIT.

And you're telling me that despite the fact they KNEW this becuase they fucking forged their business ESTABLISHING this, that they just HAPPEN to suddenly use it and didn't fucking know that it was going to be viewed EXACTLY AS THEY FUCKING BRAINWASED EVERYONE INTO VIEWING IT BASED ON PREVIOUS FILMS?

Yeah, nah. This shit was intentional, trying to paint it like familial love and throwing the second love interest in there? Japan does the same shit with the "not blood related" cop out: it's there just so the moral authorities won't come down on them, and that's IT.

>> No.34117618

The problem with this is that it means that if a paladin is traveling (as paladins are wont to do, especially in a D&D setting), and they were to come to a land where paladins are outlawed, then they would change alignment not based on any intrinsic characteristics to the character changing, but based on their location.

That would be stupid, so that's not how it works.

>> No.34117645


You want a good example of Lawful Evil?

Look at most money hungry corporations. They do not break the law and their actions are completely legal, but they are still causing great suffering for their own selfish gains.

Lawful evil lines the pocket of politicians to help them out of binds.

Lawful evil skirts in the moral grey area to accomplish goals and hides behind technicalities when they get caught doing something that MIGHT be wrong.

Lawful evil is the most dangerous evil because it is the hardest to destroy without setting yourself up to fail in the aftermath and usually it is so large it is damn near impossible to be destroyed by a small group of people alone and would require major, major help from a vast number of people in major points of power.

>> No.34117741


Listen, because you cannot seem to understand this.

If someone is neutral and they, let's say, need a locket that a widow has. They would offer to buy it from her. If she accepts, they would pay her a fair price wish her well and carry on.

If she said no, they would try to sneak into her house and steal it or slip it off her person without her knowing.

Chaotic person wants her locket, he will ask for it, if she says no, he would brazenly snatch it from her neck and if she gave him any kind of struggle would be smacked around or gutted depending on how evil we are gonna go with it. Evil outright and you wouldn't have even asked, just loped the cunts head off and take your god damned locket, how dare that bitch wear your stuff.

>> No.34117762

not about personal freedom or rebellion, but about making himself king


>> No.34117788

>They do not break the law and their actions are completely legal
There are tons of examples of evil megacorps in various settings that break the laws all the time (and, sadly, in real life as well). They're still Lawful Evil, because they're an organized evil with deliberate goals, and their own internal guidelines.

You want good examples of Lawful Evil? Apart from Megacorps, Dictators are a very good example. Stalin is as Lawful Evil as one can get, and he broke the system over its knee several times whenever it suited him. Organized Crime bosses would also be lawful evil, despite being, you know, criminals, and as such in constant violation of the law all the time.

Lawful =/= Following laws

>> No.34117808
File: 39 KB, 902x912, alignment.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

welp looks like I have to get out the chart again.

>> No.34117822

The Fisher King, bro. The Pridelands were shit because the leader was evil, self serving, heartless, etcetera. Under a noble and good king they're all sunshine and rainbows.

>> No.34117840

>intentional Wincest

Do you listen to yourself?

Look, i'm sure this is precious to your brain. Too bad. That's not how it is.

You can have whatever headcanon you want, that doesn't make it real.

>> No.34117868

This. It's divine ruler 101

>> No.34117877

> lawful behaviour
> having anything to do with laws
Being lawful is about being organized or strict.

>> No.34117918

That chart implies good people will not defend themselves.

>> No.34117930

lawful =/= following law
Right. it means obeying authority you recognize.

If you are the authority, it means making everyone follow you.

>> No.34118015

>Can't actually refute a point made
It's obvious it was intentional not in spite of, but BECAUSE this is Disney we're talking about. Seriously, they built their fucking empire on that romantic love shit, and then immediately transition into "oh no it actually means familial love", nah, not buying it.

>> No.34118029

He's not saying it's intentional, he's saying that they can't have not known that people could react like that. What kind of idiot would not expect people to take what all previous experiences they've had with one type of thing and apply them to the new thing. Plus the movie sure as fuck doesn't help with the dialogue.

>> No.34118062

Lawful draws power from institution and imposes authority. It has nothing to do with following laws. It has everything to do with making and enforcing laws.

Chaotic scorn law and institution and rely instead on personal attributes. They don't need others' approval and rarely achieve their goals by telling other people what to do.

Neutral takes the path of least resistance.

>> No.34118078

You can't turn into a snake and be lawful.

>> No.34118223

>Lose your arms and legs, and all the wonderful things you can accomplish with them
>Gain the ability to slide on the floor.

I never saw the appeal of turning into a snake.

>> No.34118257

Yeah. I mean, I get what they were going for, but there is no way in hell SOMEONE didn't say at some point "You know, this can seriously easily be read as lesbian incest, right?"

What's important isn't that they were doing that intentionally, but that they were TOTALLY OKAY with people leaving with that impression, which says something.

>> No.34118296


>> No.34118333

Or, believe it or not, nobody there just DIDN'T. FREAKING. REALISE. THAT THE MOVIE WOULD BE TAKEN THAT WAY.

>> No.34118338
File: 14 KB, 480x360, i-am-above-the-law.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

Would this count as LE bard?

>> No.34118375

I'd normally say it's something for the adults to catch, but I've heard anecdotes of kids catching onto it.

Still it worked out in the end right, given how mcuh fucking money the movie made.
I refuse to believe that the studio animators are that dense. It's not like other groups for other media haven't fessed up to subtext on occasion.

>> No.34118437

Heil myself, heil to me, I'm the kraut who's out to change our destiny.

>> No.34118510

>only watched OniAi
>didn't watch Oreimo

Stay casual, angrycaps faggot.

>> No.34118543

Okay, think about it. Disney employs how many staff? How many fucking people worked on the movie? How many teams of writers? Voice actors? Animators?

You're telling me none of them, not one, ever, once, stood up and said

"You know, this kind of makes them sound like lesbians."?

Like, it's just not fucking possible that higher management didn't know about this. This is the sort of shit that companies worry about becoming a PR nightmare. They HIRE PEOPLE to point this shit out to them.

For even a fucking HINT of subtext to slip by, that shit was probably reviewed three times in every department. For the amount of "unintended" subtext there is in the movie the entirety of Disney would have to go suddenly completely and utterly retarded. It's unthinkable that this shit wasn't completely reviewed and given the go-ahead.

>> No.34118546

>"as old as I am"
I feel old now, and I'm only 5 years older than you.

>> No.34118554

He has to resort to chicanery and tricky wording to make other people accept his deal. In that regard, I think he's a little lawful.

>> No.34118603

This is what I always assumed the movie was trying to say.

If it doesn't work like this then blaming the drought on Scar makes no sense.

>> No.34118615

>Disney fucking brainwashed the world

Wow, careful there Mr Fantastic.

>> No.34118618

Even Oreimo cops out with the "let's call it off" BS at the end, because moral guardians wouldn't stand for it in any other case. I'd say "they're lucky they even got that far" but anime standards in Japan are like American R-rated movies, meaning you can do pretty much whatever you want as long as you don't portray something so "impure" that the censors don't slap an X rating on your shit because think of the children!

>> No.34118677

It says they will, if they think it's for the greater good.

A Good character would not defend themselves if by defending themselves they would doom thousands of others.

>> No.34118817

Yeah, but he's pretty pissed off by the rules and deals he have to respect for his powers to work (like when he have to bear with the incompetence of Lawrence because the amulet won't work on him).

I wouldn't be surprised he actually had to rely in exact words for his deals to work (as in "can't give people otherwise than what they accept in the deal").

I suppose Dr. Facilier would be a lot more free-spirited if not for those pesky alignment restrictions

>> No.34118860

It's all about the Droit de Seigneur.

>> No.34118868

brainwashed might be extreme, but you have to be retarded to be saying that the huge fucking media producers haven't had a massive impact on what we expect from future media and how we view it when it become available to us.

>> No.34118979

What? He conspired (and suceeded) in assassinating his father/ruler. That shit ain't lawful. He's neutral at best.

>> No.34118982
File: 953 KB, 380x218, 1390454140834.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

Heil myself. Raise your hand. There's no greater dictator in the land.

>> No.34119024

It's fire nation politics.

>> No.34119027

For the ones that didn't know, "Droit du Seigneur" is a right the king had to fuck all the women on their wedding night. Or, in some case, to put one leg in the marital bed while the spouses were fucking.

>> No.34119068

Scar is Neutral Evil, he did it all for his own selfish desires and didn't care about upsetting the order of the land

>> No.34119152
File: 409 KB, 1920x1080, gastone.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

Is this guy Lawful Evil or Lawful Good?

>> No.34119224

True Gaston

>> No.34119317

Neutral Evil.

>> No.34119341

You could be lawful while fighting the law, because you follow another code of ethics than the specific set of laws in your country.

Hitler did not go from Chaotic Evil to Lawful Evil in 1933.

>> No.34119379

"honey, did you remember to pay your taxes in time?"
>See's lion munching on husband.
"Oh, well I sure hope that counts as payment on the next month"

>> No.34120504

He's hardly a Bard. He performs, what, once? Twice if you count that bit with the skull?

>> No.34123522

Everything i do i do for you!
If you're looking for a war, here's World War Two!

>> No.34123694

neutral stupid
also >>34119224

>> No.34123854


You DO realize Bard's have more going for them than just singing and playing instruments, right? Diplomacy is a huge thing for them, and with a high enough skill in it they can even fake the whole musical aspect.

Scar convinced a whole army of hyenas to follow his command, even when he couldn't fulfill his promises to them. That's definitely the work of a high-charisma Bard.

>> No.34123880

There's actually very little evidence that the right existed. It mainly cropped up in accusation of other people doing it, to say they were terrible people. So lords probably did something like it but it was not strictly legal. It cropped up a lot in 1700s French dramatic works which helped popularise it.

>> No.34123918

Maleficent - Chaotic Evil
Ursula - Neutral Evil
Jafar - Neutral Evil
Scar - Lawful Evil
Gaston - Neutral Evil
Wicked Step Mother (Cinderella) - Lawful Evil
Hades - Chaotic Evil
Mother Gothel - Neutral Evil
Hans - Neutral Evil
Syndrome - Neutral Evil

>> No.34124084

Queen of Hearts - Lawful Evil
Captain Hook - Lawful Evil
Cruella DeVille - Neutral Evil
Sher Khan - Neutral Evil
Prince John - Lawful Evil
Governor Ratcliffe - Lawful Evil
Frollo - Lawful Evil
Shan Yu - Chaotic Evil
Yzma - Neutral Evil
Waternoose - Lawful Evil

>> No.34124211

Wrong Malificent and Hook are more neutral evil while Jaffar is Lawful Evil

>> No.34124323

Auto - Lawful Neutral
Muntz - Neutral Evil
King Candy - Neutral Evil

Some non-Disneys:
Hexus - Chaotic Evil
Sharptooth - Neutral
Lord Farquaad - Lawful Evil
Rasputin - Chaotic Evil
Carface - Chaotic Evil
MonStars - Chaotic Evil
Junkyard Magnet - Lawful Neutral
The Drej - Lawful Evil
Thrax - Chaotic Evil

im bored now.

>> No.34124356

I agree with Jaffar being Lawful Evil. His goal is to take over by marrying the princess and becoming Sultan. That's pretty LE to me.

>> No.34124409

In the context of their stories, Maleficent was literally out for revenge. She was not neutral - she was specifically out to disrupt the harmony of the kingdom for being slighted.

Hook has to be lawful. He is commanding a group of pirates, which followed his lead. Hook's position was a direct contrast to Pan's Chaotic Good)

>> No.34124496

Consider Jafar's motivations. He only ever wants power. At the time Sultan was power to him - but then 'most powerful sorcerer' and then Genie.

He never cares about ruling or changing the kingdom.

>> No.34124742

Can't agree with you on Captain James Hook man. His whole life outside of his conflict with Peter is centered around the idea of 'form', which is some kind of internal code to him. To be brave and successful is 'good form', while cowardice and incompetency is 'bad form'. I think I read somewhere that he has moments of admiration for Peter who displays innate Good Form without prompt or knowledge, which is the best kind of form

>> No.34125026

Not in Pathfinder!

>> No.34125203


The transformation of his character was too abrupt and lacked a base on what was shown about him earlier. Hell, even his horse was a charming prince funny horse.

>> No.34125332

Tell me about it. I was this close to telling him off for being underageb& and then IT FUCKING DAWNED ON ME.

>> No.34125361

Cause he's got friends on the other si-

>> No.34125385

Who do?

>> No.34125760


>> No.34126023

how so?

>> No.34126040

fangs and venom mostly
stealth too. snakes don't make much noise when they move, and they can climb pretty decently.

Also, heat vision.

>> No.34126048

No, it's a cartoon lion from an animated movie.

Not everything translates into dungeons and dragons and you should stop trying to make it, because that gets really old really fast

>> No.34126063

Morality is subjective, maybe from his perspective he was Lawful Good

>> No.34126066

You're way too late.

>> No.34126097

I'm not connected to the matrix like Neo. Stop busting on my nutsack. Still a valid point.

>> No.34126107

I dunno. Little Mermaid has boners drawn everywhere.

The Rescuers has a topless woman in the background, complete with nipples.

Animaniacs made a career out of getting things past the censors (finger Prince)

It very well could have been missed.

>> No.34126149

How is this complicated? Lawful means following a code. You're gonna hate me for using him as an example, but Sheldon is lawful whatever (I've only seen a few snippets of TBBT) - he follows a strict set of a rules, and will break the law if following those rules would lead him to do so.

Lawful =/= obeying the law, it means prizing LAWS (rules, codes, guidelines, ethics). Codes of ethics are a very good example of lawful - psychiatrists, doctors and lawyers follow ethical codes even when they don't really make sense, aren't relevant or may do harm, and are therefore lawful.
Dr House isn't chaotic specifically because he breaks the laws, it's his general refusal to do anything that would end up with the patient dead that makes him ignore ethics and laws and makes him chaotic.

>> No.34126216
File: 2.00 MB, 2008x1857, Sauron.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

Sauron is the original lawful evil bard.

>> No.34126356

right, but he also only cares about the patients safety for selfish reasons, and he makes it clear he doesn't care if he hurts people so long as it doesn't come back to bite him.


>> No.34126379

that doesn't look like any bard I ever saw (except maybe the 5e one)

>> No.34126784

Is sauron a blackguard of melkor?

>> No.34126793

Neutral Evil, probably. Ensuring his own success/wealth/etc.

>> No.34126889

I'd go for CN. He does good (saves people) but often hurts them or those around him in the process and is a negative influence in the rest of his life.

And definitely not lawful, just got through explaining how he ignores ethics and laws on a whim

>> No.34126953

>Helps sing evil into existence
>Has a musical duel with an elf-lord
>Uses magic, primarily illusions and mind-affecting powers
>Not a bard

>> No.34127199

can't argue with that logic.

never heard the singing evil into existance part though

>> No.34127254

Read the Silmarillon

>> No.34127505

I was going to say you were full of it for saying commanding a group of THIEVES was somehow lawful, but reading >>34124742 convinced me otherwise.

>> No.34127552

>Not in Shitfinder!

>> No.34127787

10/10 argument, anon

>> No.34127852

seems reasonable to me.

>> No.34131289


>> No.34134584

Villains can't be LE. They're NE, CE or CN.

>> No.34135547

>Villains can't be LE

>> No.34135584

Just watched Hercules and I found it pretty funny that the evil King who slaughtered hundreds of innocent civilians, poisoned or tried to execute his relatives and all the rest still gave the heroes their gold for helping out even after they discovered they had been deceived.

>> No.34135684
File: 31 KB, 440x441, sparrow.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

I feel as if this guy is one of the best representations of Chaotic Neutral in modern media.

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