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[ERROR] No.33139024 [DELETED]  [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

Since the last one just 404'd I figured I'd start a new one. Starting with the repost of known archetypes.

Blade Adept, Unlettered Arcanist, Blood Arcanist, Brown-Fur Transmuter, Eldritch Font, White Mage, Elemental Master, Occultist
Crossblooded Rager, Metamagic Rager, Bloodrider, Untouchable Rager, Rageshaper
Primal Companion Hunter
Sleuth, Mastermind, Spiritualist
Animist, Unsworn Shaman, Possessed Shaman
Totemic Skald
Grave Warden
Picaroon, Flying Blade, Mysterious Avenger
Divine Commander
Counterfeit Mage
Mountain Witch, Witch Doctor
Exploiter Wizard

Pic related is the Arcanist (Occultist)

>> No.33139061

The rundown about what is known about archetypes:

Run down of known archetypes:
Blade Adept gains sentient sword and can trade Exploits for Magus Arcana
Brown-Fur Transmuter can use arcane reservoir to buff transmutation spells
Eldritch Font gains more spell slots but less per day
Elemental Master is focused on a single element but can use it to greater effect
White Mage can spend points from arcane reservoir to cast cure spells and at higher levels Breath of Life
Bloodrider transfers Bloodrage bonuses to mount
Rageshaper gains extra features by changing shape
Untouchable Ragers trades spell progression for spell resistance etc.
Mastermind (manipulates a group of minions)
Sleuth (gumshoe based who uses luck instead of inspiration)
Spiritualist (detective who gains insight from the worlds beyond)
Mysterious Avenger (Zorro-based)
Flying Blade (based on thrown weapons)
Picaroon (gun and sword style)

Pic Related is the Divine Commander

>> No.33139085

And on the Arcanist, have some updated Exploits:

>Energy Shield (Su):
The arcanist can protect herself from energy damage as a standard action by expending 1 point from her arcane reservoir. She must pick one energy type and gains resistance 10 against that energy type for 1 minute per arcanist level. This protection increases by 5 for every 5 levels the arcanist possesses (up to a maximum of 30 at 20th level).

>Quick Study (Ex):
The arcanist can prepare a spell in place of an existing spell by expending 1 point from her arcane reservoir. Using this ability is a full-round action that provokes an attack of opportunity. The arcanist must be able to reference her spellbook when using this ability. The spell prepared must be of the same level as the spell being replaced.

>Suffering Knowledge (Su):
The arcanist can learn to cast a spell by suffering from its effects. When the arcanist fails a saving throw against a spell cast by an enemy, as an immediate action she can expend 1 point from her arcane reservoir to temporarily acquire the spell. She can cast the spell using her spell slots as if it was a spell she had prepared that day. The spell must be on the sorcerer/wizard spell list and must be of a level that she can cast. The ability to cast this spell remains for a number of rounds equal to the arcanist’s Charisma modifier (minimum 1).

Furthermore the Arcanist is said to have been kept very close to the 2nd Playtest format.

>> No.33139128

I haven't been on any PGs lately, where are you getting all of this data from?

>> No.33139179

They do spoilers every week, I'm collecting them, thinning it down and reposting for any general and updating as needed.

>> No.33139409

And with that note, here's updated mechanics that were spoiled for other classes:

Lost Full BAB with Sacred Weapon
Buffed Blessings/Fervor
All Cha based abilities are now keyed off of Wis
Warpriest level is treated as BAB for feats
Warpriest can take Fighter feats with their bonus feats

>Community Major Blessing
Fight as One (major): At 10th level, you can rally your allies to fight together. For 1 minute, whenever you make a successful melee or ranged attack against a foe, allies within 10 feet of you gain a +2 insight bonus on attacks of the same type you made against that foe—melee attacks if you made a melee attack, or ranged attacks if you made a ranged attack. If you score a critical hit, this bonus increases to +4 until the start of your next turn.

>> No.33139426

And the Investigator will take 2 posts:

Studied Combat (Ex): With a keen eye and calculating mind, an investigator can assess the mettle of his opponent to take advantage of gaps in talent and training. At 4th level, an investigator can use a move action to study a single enemy that he can see. Upon doing so, he adds 1/2 his investigator level as an insight bonus on melee attack rolls and as a bonus on damage rolls against the creature. This effect lasts for a number of rounds equal to his Intelligence modifier (minimum 1) or until he deals damage with a studied strike, whichever comes first. The bonus on damage rolls is precision damage, and is not multiplied on a critical hit.

An investigator can only have one target of studied combat at a time, and once a creature has become the target of an investigator's studied combat, he cannot become the target of the same investigator's studied combat again for 24 hours unless the investigator expends one use of inspiration when taking the move action to use this ability.

>> No.33139439

Studied Strike (Ex): At 4th level, an investigator can choose to make a studied strike against the target of his studied combat as a free action, upon successfully hitting his studied target with a melee attack, to deal additional damage. The damage is 1d6 at 4th level, and increases by 1d6 for every 2 levels thereafter (to a maximum of 9d6 at 20th level). The damage of studied strike is precision damage and is not multiplied on a critical hit; creatures that are immune to sneak attacks are also immune to studied strike. If the investigator's attack used a weapon that deals nonlethal damage (like a sap, whip, or an unarmed strike), he may choose to have the additional damage from studied strike be nonlethal damage instead of lethal damage. If the investigator chose to make an attack with a lethal weapon instead deal nonlethal damage (with the usual –4 penalty), the studied strike damage may also deal nonlethal damage.

The investigator must be able to see the target well enough to pick out a vital spot and must be able to reach such a spot. An investigator cannot use studied strike against a creature with concealment.

Plus supposedly investigator talents to add debilitating conditions were added.

>> No.33139471

Nothing for summoner?

>> No.33139567

Nothing yet, there were around 70 or so Archetypes named. Supposedly some for almost every class. So they might have got one but we haven't categorized them all.

>> No.33139612

The summoner archetypes will obviously be
A summoner who can summon his own fucking party

>> No.33139899

Needs summoner that eschews the SLA for a better Eidolon, I think. There's already two archetypes that do essentially nothing but give a slightly different flavor for the summons, and even one that seems to have missed the memo on how stupid powerful it is and decided to buff it further while leaving enough room for a rogue-shaming skillodon.

>> No.33139913

Remember guys,

I think some folks here might be reading a bit much into a relatively short preview. The class is good, but its not quite as powerful as some are making it out to be.

Lets just take the rhetoric down a notch.

Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer

>> No.33140004

And not a single spoiler for the brawler still, that poor bastard...

>> No.33140121

That made me laugh more than it should have.

>> No.33140129

I read that as "guys wizard is still tier 1, please don't hate"

>epeter arrogance

>> No.33140383

Shh anon. This is caster time.

>> No.33140542

>White Mage

pic related?

>> No.33141072

White mage:

>White Mage can spend points from arcane reservoir to cast cure spells and at higher levels Breath of Life

>> No.33141082

>Tfw it's always caster time.
Feels sad man

>> No.33141099

I'm new to Pathfinder, how would I go about building a martial warrior type who has a sword in one hand and a wand in the other?

I don't want to be able to actually cast spells, just use magic items. Would I need two weapon fighting?

>> No.33141157

The only way to cast a spell or use item such as a wand or a scroll and attack during the same turn is to be a magus, sadly.

>> No.33141207

if you aren't magus, you can't attack and cast in the same turn.

>> No.33141221

Magus also get an arcana to use wands or staves when using spell combat and another to allow them to use their Int mod for the save DC of wands.

>> No.33141246

That's disappointing.

If I played a character with a sword in one hand and a wand/scroll/rod in the other who mainly attacked with the weapon but cast tactically, how fucked would I be? You can't quickdraw scrolls/wands, right?

If I used a bastard sword two handed and switched to one handed to grab a wand and cast, would that be sensible at all? This isn't a very optimization heavy campaign, I just have a really strong concept.

>> No.33141309

If your a tiefling and I think maybe another race you can get a prehensile tail to draw out scrolls/wands as a swift action.

>> No.33141313

Improved Familiars, which ones are the best?

I'm planning on abusing the posioner's gloves on an alchemist to dose myself without having to take actions, but I want to know which familiar to take. I am torn between Clockwork Familiar and Imp as of now.

I am starting at level 8 and am being a debuff bomb mind chemist.

>> No.33141320

One thing, it needs to have hands for the hand slot.

>> No.33141328

Ratlings can use scrolls
Psudodragons are cute :3c
Imp is probably the best choice.

>> No.33141347

Clockwork can give bonuses to craft checks, which was my reason for considering. I'd combine that with the Valet familiar archetype and create the perfect alchemical assistant.

>> No.33141349

Try Aegis: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/psionics-unleashed/classes/aegis

You can even use Power Stones(the psionic equivalent of scrolls) without needing to hold them in your hand, and you can have extra hands and stuff. Of course, that requires your GM to allow 3rd party stuff - and psionics, no less, which many GMs are unreasonably averse to.

>> No.33141364

With this at level 8 I can produce on average 298gp worth of alchemical items per week on a dc 20 item, and up to 376gp if I roll a 20.

This is because the valet cooperative crafting plus swift alchemy is insane.

>> No.33141441

You could level a Magus archetype with diminished casting until you get the wand shit and then multiclass into fighter for your remaining levels.

>> No.33141875

They won't do that, they are vary of giving up too much of one ability to boost the other side of it (see Lore Warden being considered overpowered by them). If you give it up, it'd have to be something that doesn't directly buff the eidolon.

I could see it being Bardic Performance (dance/song summoner sounds real cool to me), a Domain (divine summoner kind of thing), Bloodline, possibly something that buffs the summoner himself (Bloodrage? Bloodrage sounds good).

>> No.33141886

Since cure spells are still fucking terrible AND it's limited by arcane points, unless he can like, do it as a free action it's not like he'll be a viable in-combat healer.

>> No.33141907


>> No.33141934


That's not insane. Insane is a Valet familiar assisting a Dwarf Wizard with the racial FC benefits of Class Level times 200 gp additional progress per day.

1000gp a day normal, 2000 gp if you have the leisure to work double time, +4000 gp for 20 levels of FC in Wondrous Items, and it all gets doubled by the Valet familiar because that explicitly "doubles the gp value of items that can be crafted each day". 12k gp progress per day on wondrous items? Yes please.

>> No.33141935

>healing in combat

>> No.33141952

Sorry, is just a monk, and we don't like monks here, so get out and go play some weeaboo system.

>> No.33141980

FC isn't broken or unbalanced at all.

>> No.33141997


... I was talking about Favourite Class, not FantasyCraft. This is core PF shenanigans, no need to diverge into other systems.

>> No.33142313

eh..? Can you show us your calculation / skill in Craft: Alchemy? I think we can help you boost it a little bit more.

>> No.33142387


>Crossblooded Rager, Metamagic Rager, Bloodrider, Untouchable Rager, Rageshaper

It's like all of the comic book superheroes of the 90's found their way into Pathfinder. God I hope they hire Rob Liefield to illustrate the "Bloodrider".


This guy needs to be in the same party as the guys above. "Behold the might of Elgeron, Bloodrider of the Northern Kingdoms, and his faithful companion Twindlyboop, the Picaroon."


And here we have the most perfectly terrible class name ever devised.

>> No.33142396

So I did some backtrack-calculation and you have.. 27 in craft: Alchemy?

Have you consider :
- Accerelate crafter : Increase DC by 10 (so now your DC 20 item is DC30 and you use that 30 to multiply with your check result)
- Crafter's Fortune Extract +5
- Master Alchemist feat (x10 speed)

Congratulation you just broke the economy.

>> No.33142731

You should see the rest of the names:

Blood Conduit, Bolt Ace, Bounty Hunter, Champion of the Faith, Cleaner, Cult Leader, Cutthroat, Daring Champion, Daring Infiltrator, Deliverer, Disenchanter, Divine Hunter, Divine Tracker, Eldritch Scion, Eldritch Scrapper, Empiricist, Exemplar, Fated Champion, Feral Hunter, Feral Shifter, Flame Dancer, Forgepriest, Greenrager, Herald of the Horn, Holy Guide, Hooded Champion, Infiltrator, Inspired Blade, Kata Master, Martial Master, Mongrel Mage, Mouser, Musketeer, Mutagenic Mauler (not an advanced class guide class), Mutation Warrior, Naturalist, Nature Fang, Packmaster, Primalist, Psychic Searcher, Sacred Fist, Sacred Huntsmaster, Sanctified Slayer, School Savant, Shield Champion, Snakebite Striker, Sniper, Speaker for the Past, Spell Sage, Spell Specialist, Spell Warrior, Spelleater, Spirit Guide, Spirit Summoner, Spirit Warden, Spirit Whisperer, Steel Hound, Steel-breaker, Steelblood, Strangler, Stygian Slayer, Temple Champion, Underground Chemist, Vanguard, Verminous Hunter, Visionary, Voice of the Wild, Warsighted, Wild Child, Wild Hunter, Wild Whisperer, Wildcat, Hex Channeler

>> No.33142806

> Greenrager
> Wildcat

Super Hero time?

>> No.33142823


>Didn't fix or remove the concept of multiclassing
>Didn't fix the feat system
>Added a shit load of base classes and retarded variants instead

T-thanks Paizo!

>> No.33142850

Archetypes are legitimately good... when they are not badly made (but that's the same for everything you can do in a system).

Multiclass and feats suck though, you are correct.

>> No.33142992

Has anyone ever tried the houserule where feats that have multiple tiers, such as twf, combat maneuvers, and vital strike, get consolidated into one feat that progresses when you hit the appropriate bab? If so how has it worked for you?

>Tfw you will never play a game with houserules you like unless you host it yourself

>> No.33143025

Fighters now have every combat feat. Does in make them any better?

>> No.33143070


Dunno. Allegedly it let's them be able to do any maneuver they want while other classes can at least afford to take one, so there's that. Also twf rogues have to eat less feats.

>> No.33143102

The fighter's issue was never combat effectiveness, in 3e or in Pathfinder. The fighter's issue is that they can't do anything other than fight, including the basic utility necessary for high-level fights like dealing with flight, invisibility, recovery from debilitating effects and so on. Mundane fighting man as a concept cannot work well in the system's framework. Giving him more feats won't do diddly do because no feat can approximate the out and out magical effects he needs to perform his job.

>> No.33143142

How good is http://www.d20pfsrd.com/psionics-unleashed/feats/access-psionic-talent and its prerequisites?

>> No.33143176

Running a game with that as a houserule at the moment. The players are still second level, so it'll be a while before I'll be seeing the impact.

>> No.33143194

If you want that
Just play a Psychic Warrior, which is BetterFighter anyway.

>> No.33143218


The point wasn't to fix the fighter, per se, but to give combat maneuvers a bit of a buff. I also like that houserule where you reduce monster CMD by half of its CR but no one will ever run that.

>> No.33143253

I thought about taking them for the psywar. With psionic race that have wild talent, unlocked talent and psionic body give extra 4pp, 6hp, and extra power from any list, like natural healing for converting these 4pp into 12 more hp, right on level one. Not sure if psywar needs extra 5 talents to the two ones he gets initially.

Also, is http://www.d20pfsrd.com/psionics-unleashed/classes/psion/psionic-disciplines/psychoportation#TOC-Nomad-s-Step-Su- really not limited in uses per day?

>> No.33143276

Nomad's Step is meant to be limited by it's action cost, but... it doesn't hold up if you're near-pure or pure psion. Eventually you have no reason to walk/run again ever, and just warp all the time.

>> No.33143289

If you can qualify for it without spending feats for the prereqs, it looks pretty good, if you think you can get enough use out of the talents(conceal thoughts for essentially +10 to bluff checks outside combat? Missive might be useful if you're sneaking around. Detect psionics is obviously useful if you don't have access to detect magic. I'm sure some of the others can be pretty useful as well). Unlocked talent might be good as well. Wild talent is a waste you should absolutely not spend a feat on unless it's prereq for something that's worth two feats.

Unless you're playing a psionic race or a psionic class, I wouldn't bother. And if you're playing a psionic class, you probably already have the talents you really want, unless you're playing a soulknife or something.

>> No.33143365

Can an Alchemist with Infusion discovery force his infusion to become inert at will?

I have a feeling a Chaotic Jackass in the party will try to steal all my infusion and drink it all himself.

>> No.33143387

Don't label them, or label them wrong and mix in bottles of arsenic or acid.

>> No.33143491

Theres http://www.d20pfsrd.com/psionics-unleashed/feats/fast-step-psionic to reduce it to move action. And I though that Veiled Moon level 5 stance was OP.

I'm going to play a game that will use http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/other-rules/armor-as-damage-reduction optional rule. Anyone have any experience with it?

>> No.33143520

You only need to replace one with a mutagen. An hour of nausea will kill his potionthieving ways real fucking quick, especially in a dungeon. 1 move action only every round for an hour? Yeah, he ain't gonna touch none of your shit.

>> No.33143530


But anon, Dreamscarred Press does balance better than Paizo!

>> No.33143533

Mix opium into a few bottles with colored liquid. Don't label them. Don't make any infusions that day. Let him steal them and enjoy. Not your fault you were studying the effects of opium in various mediums.

>> No.33143559

The real balancing factor is probably that psychoportation discipline power list sucks. There's like, nothing except flight and teleport, and greater versions of them are on general list.

>> No.33143593

You have a really efficient move action; boo-fucking-hoo. It's still nowhere near a quickened teleport.

>> No.33143687


Archetypes would have been fine (some of them are retarded though) but they should have done more to trim the fat. Either fix feats/multiclassing or get fucking rid of it once and for all.

>> No.33143769

Do you want multiclassing to be gestalt with 1 level penalty like it was in 2e?

>> No.33143822

Those little moving parts are the best thing about 3.5 though, so getting rid is not an option (or they'd ruin, like, the only thing PF is actually good at).

I really liked Legend's tracts idea, I think that'd have worked as an elegant solution to multiclassing (maybe with some option to mix certain tracts).

>> No.33143881

Good idea. Maybe I'll do both!

>> No.33143905


Anything really. I would like multiclass to remain but it needs to just synergise better or get going. Especially when PF is so obsessed with pumping out base classes that sort of fill multiclass themes. Gestalt isn't necessarily a bad idea but imo there needs to be a different drawback to a level penalty which I don't think is a great way of balancing something.


I enjoy them too but only in concept. In practice, for both 3.5 and PF, they were fucking abysmal. How doe the Legend tract work?

>> No.33143933

some people use prestigue classes. Not everyone is 'only optimization all the time', and some people actually run games that span a number of levels while not allowing 'total rebuilds from scratch'.

So just use what you want.

>> No.33143938

Does anyone have a good Harrow deck that's roll20 compatible, or could be with a little work?
That is to say, one that is a series of images or a good high-res PDF?

I want the Paizo Deluxe Harrow Deck for roll20, but I can't find it online anywhere. Not even a scan that I can use to make it myself.

>> No.33143977

How would monk4/aegis6/psychic fist10 http://www.d20pfsrd.com/psionics-unleashed/psionic-prestige-classes/psychic-fist compare to straight meditant psywar 20?

>> No.33144028

For multiclass synergy, check out Kirthfinder (look around the PF forums, he has a thread there). Classes with casting have the option of advancing another classes casting instead of their own when they multiclass. Similar stuff could be done for other class features.

Legend tracts work the following way (more or less, been a while since I've read it):
Each class has a choice of 3 tracts (generally 1 offensive, 1 defensive, 1 utility) from their own list (for example, barbarians for their offensive tract can choose Path of Destruction or Path of Rage).

These give the class its class features.

Multiclassing works by replacing one of your tracts with that of another class. You can replace a second tract with a feat. And finally, you can opt to get an extra tract if you forsake your wealth by level.

"Prestige classes" are just solitary tracts (for example, there's a sentai hero/kamen rider tract which comes with transformations, and an undead lord tract which turns you into a skeleton/lich/whatever that anyone can select in place of one of their tracts).

>> No.33144172

So /tg/ what characters are you cooking up in those heads you happen to have?
I am thinking of having a Goblin alchemist with the ugly swine trait (can pass for a hideous gnome or halfling etc) fluffed as having serious burns from an experiment gone wrong, removing the green colour of his face and mitigating many of the other obvious "this is a goblin" features on his head, whilst he covers the rest of himself with gloves, heavy coats etc.
I want to find a midway point between Mad Bomber and stabby mcstab stab Hulk/Hyde alchemist, but I'm not sure how to do it.
I'm thinking of going for Frost Bomb and smoke bomb and using them to weaken foes so i can close in and fuck em up. Maybe add throwing weapons to the mix as well?

>> No.33144237

I'm to create a character for a game
but I'm terribly unsure as to what I want to play.

Was seriously considering bringing back my old utility/caster Alchemist, who was a Chiurgeon/Clone Master with an ice theme. She was delightfully... er... cold. Pun not intended. Still, she was spooky.

>> No.33144413

>I'm to create a character for a game
>but I'm terribly unsure as to what I want to play.
Same here. I'm about to play with two noobs, one player that might be experienced, and experienced DM. Noobs already rolled a fighter and a rogue, so I'm not sure if I should just roll a monk to fit in.

>> No.33144456

The part I'm suffering with is that the DM is pretty permissive... so for once in my gaming career, psionics are open to me
but I have like 10 or more different psionic characters I want to play, and I don't know where to begin.

>> No.33144465

Bard are always good for carrying noob.

>> No.33144627

Start by figuring out what kind of character would benefit the party most without stepping on too many toes.

>> No.33144662

That seems to be the standard advice, but I haven't met the rest of the group yet. I think I have first pick basically, since I'm fairly sure I'm the first to have signed on for this game.

>> No.33144789

If activating action of su, sp or ps ability isn't noted, it defaults to standard action?

>> No.33144873

My bard felt so shit until level 7. Choosing between acting and starting performing? If i had 5 other party members it might be worth it but grease was always a better action. Or even attacking.

At level 7 you get to haste and perform in the same turn. Things are far better.

>> No.33144904

Does http://www.d20pfsrd.com/psionics-unleashed/psionic-prestige-classes/metamind#TOC-Font-of-Power-Ps- duration tick during http://www.d20pfsrd.com/psionics-unleashed/psionic-powers/t/temporal-acceleration apparent time?

>> No.33145213

Have you considered a Tactician, Vitalist or controller psion?
Or heck, playtest the new wilder for dreamscarred.

>> No.33145249

New wilder?

>> No.33145289

Two Wilder Prestige Classes, several archetypes and a bunch of new (very awesome) feats.

>> No.33145291

How the hell do you make fun encounters in this game? Everything I make is either piss easy or an annoying slog.

>> No.33145388

Find cool monsters, use terrain features.
Not that hard really.

>> No.33145513

Can't find archetypes link.
>Our new feats, geared toward Wilders and Wilder themes!
They almost got me. Is it just me or biokinetic adept, biokinetic rhytms and maybe biokinetic shielding is good for a psywar?

>> No.33145616


Why does the Arcanist have so many more archetypes than the other classes so far? And why do ALL OF THEM sound like they're stepping on the toes of existing magic-using classes?

Seriously, I feel like they're acting like the ACG has one set of rules and the fucking Arcanist, the class everyone felt was too powerful in the playtest, has its own set of rules.

I really hope the Swashbuckler and Brawler get some love in the final versions. They both sound like neat classes, but I'm afraid the development team won't want to make them too good to avoid hurting Fighter, Rogue, and Monk's feelings.

>> No.33145619

Super good.
If you get fucking wild surge to take the first feat in that feat chain.

>> No.33145714

In the back of the monster books, there's a listing of types of monsters by Roles. Combat, magic, etc. Look at the party, and then take a look at what monsters are suited to challenge that party, not just by CR, but by roles they perform. "Any" monsters tend to be PC style monsters. Combat tend to be physically powerful and cause more trouble to the martials and close quarters characters, and many of the higher level ones have magic as well. Spell role monsters are long range monsters or monsters that can interfere with PC's outside of combat. No role are monsters that are meant to be incidental and not a real problem - cannon fodder. Special monsters have very bizarre combat effecting abilities that can turn an encounter into a hellish fight for their lives when combined with other monster roles.

Randomly choosing monsters just by CR is pretty damn ineffective. Look at the party, see what characters are challenged by what type of mosnters. Have a wizard runnign roughshod over the encounters? Take a few Skill role mosnters and cause trouble outside of combat for a while, then introduce something with magic and close combat, like a demon or devil or angel. Martial killing things too quickly or a caster who uses lots of sleep and stun multiple mosnters effects?? Take a combat role monster and give it a half dozen no-role monsters to use as meat shields and spell sponges while it tried to pick off the dangerous opponents. Diplomancer wrecking your game? A few aberrations and shapechangers will make his life a little harder. Hit points of the PC's overwhelming? Stat draining creatures like stirges, totemske, and other weird beasts.

Tailor your encounters to the players as much as the Pc's.

>> No.33145726

> Paizo drone actually believe that Arcanist is not overpower

>> No.33145962

I wonder why half of 1/2BAB class' archetypes sounds melee-focused.
It requires psionic meditation, not wild surge.

>> No.33146029

>We heard that many people had issues with the balance of the Arcanist in the playtest, so we buffed it
Jason Buhlman is retarded isn't he?
He also in response to a hundred posts of "HOLY FUCK WHY WOULD YOU DO THAT" said "calm down it wont be OP you don't know anything" without clarifying ANY REASON it might be anything less than godlike.

>> No.33146063

Shhh, this is caster edition.

>> No.33146080


What I don't get is how inconsistent this seems. Everbody on Paizo whined about the Warpriest's full BAB thingy, so they took that away and shifted around some of the stuff people hated about the class in the playtest, but the primary opinion I heard expressed on the Arcanist was that it was insanely overpowered, particularly compared to the other Advanced Classes.

>> No.33146107

Though I hope Biokinetic Adept will be changed to have no daily limit. Even then it would be 2-3 times worse than Martial Power, not to mention requiring a move action and provoking AoO.

>> No.33146178

every book is caster edition

>> No.33146196

They actually acknowledge this in the blog post.
They fucking say "this is a class everyone in the playtest said was unbalanced, but it still didn't have enough flavor so we buffed it".

>> No.33146224

ToB wasn't.

>> No.33146238

Anon, have any of you tested either Pathfinder Adventure Card Game? I thought it would be a nice way to play with my friends without having to prepare anything. My problem is that they have showed interest in playing the RPG again.

Therefore I have considered to buy the module The Emerald Spire Superdungeon. It seems an easy kick in the door kill everything and have tons of fun. And I don't have to prepare as much as regular PF.

Any experience with any of these games? I can get both at 30% off tomorrow at my local gaming shop.

>> No.33146251

You really think they care about balance? they only want to make overpowered casters or to improve their already overpowered PCs, because, yes, the devs have PCs and all of them are fuckign broken casters. SKR had a Cleric.

>> No.33146253


And yet they're curiously silent when people have pointed out the Swashbuckler having a weak fort and will save not only goes against the class's intended role as a front-line combatant but is also a flavor fail when a fucking clergyman is less likely to be affected by poison or drink than Zorro or Inigo Montoya. What the hell.

Granted, I suspect the dev team was just too damn tempted by the prospect of a new wizard, possibly with even fewer limits, but if it's MORE powerful than it was in the playtest I'm sure as hell not letting my playgroup ban the warpriest and leave that THING legal.

>> No.33146272

Also, does anyone have screenshots or copypaste of the suggested homebrew rules for PF? Crossbow rules, different racial traits (might have to change some myself for my own campaign setting), skills for classes etc.
Any suggestion is awesome. I will probably allow more than just core rules.

>> No.33146332

Could anyone tell me if the Sensei Archetype allows the monk to add his WIS to damage? And does it allow him to swap DEX with WIS on his armor class?

>> No.33146334

Adventure Card game is really fun!
Ban any class made by paizo and allow any third party.
Even Dragon Rider, a class with good hit die, all 3 good saves, a FUCKING DRAGON and 1-6 casting is less broken than a wizard.
There is literally no such thing as a third party class that is worse than a wizard.
Though in particular Necromancer's of the Northwest's Revenants and Dreamscarred Press products are very good.

>> No.33146352

Sure, tactical spellcasting is helpful. Just get that umd to a high level, and remember that wand/scroll save DCs are awful, so use it for buffing or no save effects.

>> No.33146517

Paladin, access to spells, so you can use a good deal of divine wands and you wont outshine the other two that much.

>> No.33146583

So, now I know that party is rogue(15int, 14cha), fighter, druid, and maybe gunslinger.
Looks like I'm a wizard, but I don't really like wizards. Is there any way to gain collective feature on psion, or buff multiple targets with one power, except http://www.d20pfsrd.com/psionics-unleashed/classes/psion/psionic-disciplines/psychometabolism#TOC-Shared-Effect-Su- , which kinda stinks ?

>> No.33146650

What book are these even from?
I can't find it.

>> No.33146662

Doesn't Cleric Crusader buff everybody in the group with one spell?

>> No.33146664

Any interesting ideas for a Cavalier, /tg/? Part of me wants to play one, but I'm afraid I'll have to dismount from time to time.

>> No.33146680


I think halfling cavaliers get to bring their mounts into dungeons...

>> No.33146698

Cavalier = Worse Fighter with the special power of 'owns a horse'

Just play a Fighter and buy a horse. There are Fighter archetypes that do Cavalier better than the Cavalier.

>> No.33146737

Go ranger with horselord or whateve archetype and boon companion feat, remember that your animal companion has your favored enemy and favored terrain, so it makes a wonderful partner in combat.

>> No.33146783

dreamscarredpress com/dragonfly/ForumsPro/viewtopic/t=3463/finish=20/start=0.html

>> No.33146861

Halfling riding Velociraptor. Don't have to dismount from your mount unless you want to flank. Abuse Cavalier teamwork feat (since riding on the mount count as being adjacent to ally).

>> No.33146899

What do you guys think make Paizo staffs have such a hardon from caster anyway?

Is it just a nerd revenge fantasy?

>> No.33146934


Mostly I think it's just a bias picked up from playing casters in D&D.

>> No.33146935

Pretty much.

>> No.33146956

>A summoner who can summon his own fucking party
He can already do that. Vanilla Summoner does it fine and so does Master Summoner.

>> No.33146958


Hey ignore those dorks saying Cavaliers suck. They don't. Buying a horse sucks. It has like 12 hp and will die from a magic missile.

Animal Companions Rule, Mounted Combat rules. You've got a 15 HD mount, selecting feats for it. With spirited charge, your lance does x3 damage. Take Wheeling Charge so your mount can make a turn while charing. Have you'r Mount take Rhino's Charge to ready charges as a standard action. You shouldn't have much problem with lining up charges.

Your mount is probably large sized, but don't let that stop you from taking it in the dungeon. Have it pick up the feat Additional Traits and select Suck in Your Gut, so it doesn't take movement penalties while squeezing. Narrow Frame feat will negate the attack and AC penalties.

Is fighter good? Yeah. So dip fighter for some extra feats.

>> No.33146979

That's 3.5

We're talking Pathfinder, where Ultimate Combat had more goodies for spellcasters than martials.

>> No.33146984

Problem with mounts is that a large creature doesn't fit in every dungeon, depends on the campaign, really. In some campaigns cavaliers are fine, but in others they suck because they lose half their class features.

>> No.33146992

Boon Companion is nice, but remember you can only take it once per companion. It lets you take up to 4 levels of a class without an animal companion.

If you need more than 4 levels of your other class, the Animal Ally feat (prereq Nature Soul) gives you an animal companion progression. It stacks with your class animal companion. Alternatively Eldritch Heritage (Sylvan) gets an animal companion. Diabolist gets an imp companion with accelerated progression too.

>> No.33146998

How about Path of War?

>> No.33147007

With Suck in Your Gut and Narrow Frame, your Large creature can go anywhere a medium creature would. If you need to get through a tighter spot than 5x5, it can still make escape artist checks to squeeze. Alternatively, keep some scrolls of Reduce Animal (and Animal Growth, duh) on hand.

>> No.33147020

Speaking of Dreamscarred classes, I've been allowed to use Path of War classes in a new campaign I joined.

Thing is, I have no fucking idea what I'm doing. What's a reasonable setup for a Stalker?

>> No.33147021


>> No.33147039

Can you still mount it?

>> No.33147044

Let me check "trolling pathfinder threads" manual... it have Martial Training feat that lets caster use maneuvers!

>> No.33147053

SKR didn't want superhuman martial classes, but apparently don't think or don't care a guy who can shoot fire with his mind is superhuman.

>> No.33147056

Ladders are irrelevant if you can fly or have a climb speed. Both are feasible with cheap gear. Or, what do you want to bet your 26 str cavalier can just carry that horse up the ladder anyway?

>> No.33147075

Yes. You can still ride a horse with Suck in your Gut and Narrow Frame.

>> No.33147082

That guy really pisses me off.

>> No.33147083

I need some help, what is the fastest way I can craft wondrous items?

>> No.33147097

Define fasters way. Theres a limit on the gold pieces you can craft per day.

>> No.33147098

Without using fabricate.

>> No.33147103

Well, increasing the DC by +10 doubles your speed. The Cooperative Crafting feat lets someone help and speed things up. It isn't clear if you can have multiple people assist for further speed boosts.

The Valet Familiar archetype grants Cooperative Crafting and your Item Crafting feats to your familiar. Its a good way to build fast. I think one of the Wizard schools gets a speed boost too.

>> No.33147110

Yes, the 1000gp limit or something, is there any way I can increase this number?

>> No.33147111

Are Alchemists any good? We're playing Rise of the Runelords and I'm about to hit level 4, but I'm kinda building for thrown bombs (much to the chagrin of our cleric, who's been hit twice). We're a group of 3.

>> No.33147129

Yeah, I'm an alchemists with an improved tumor familiar (clockwork) with the valet archetype. So I can double the limit for 1k to 2k?

>> No.33147130

Alchemist are good, they're a solid Tier 3.

>> No.33147134


One of my friends runs a Stalker. It's great. Veiled Moon discipline gives you a teleport that's really useful, and Broken Blade gives you two-weapon fighting stuff.

Really you can't go too wrong with a Stalker.

>> No.33147147

You can break alchemist's action economy using certain traits and the tumor familiar. Stink bomb cleric with a tumor familiar is the most powerful version. Give your familiar a pair of posioner's gloves and it can inject you with infusions as it's action, so you don't have to spend yours.

>> No.33147150

With your Valet and increasing the DC by +10, you can tripple it to 3000 gold per day.

If you need more crafting assistance, Craft Construct will help. Its pricy, but a Homonculus with Cooperative Crafting and item crafting feats is possible. You can make as many as you'd need.

>> No.33147183

Yes, but the prereq is that you don't already have an animal companion feature.

>> No.33147202

I don't wanna power game, but I could grab the stink bomb feat shortly, and I guess a level or two in cleric would be acceptable since we're a man short.

Although, I like to use that feat that lets me reuse my potions, that's great

>> No.33147204

Is it possible to play an Alchemist until you get a Tumor Familiar, then become a Cavalier and turn it into a Mount?

>> No.33147208

How do you give these guys cooperative crafting? Just increase their hitdice till they get a feat? I didn't that that's how it worked.

>> No.33147214

Cool. Works enough for me. Thanks!

>> No.33147228

Cleric is one of the worst alchemist multiclasses.

No, they are familiars, which can't be large enough to be a mount unless you are a small sized creature, get improved familiar, and are the beast rider cavalier archetype (which mentions dire rats, and dire rat is on the improved familiar list)

>> No.33147243

What do you guys think of the Sensei Archetype?

>> No.33147263

>No, they are familiars, which can't be large enough
Man, I miss 3.5 and the Winter wolf familiar as Hexblade.

>> No.33147283

>Sensei Archetype
Not good, I mean, isn't worse than pure monk, even probably better, but still, is part of an awful class.

I heard good things of Hungry Ghost/Master of Many Styles/Giggonk all together though.

>> No.33147286

I don't see why not. They're intelligent after all. If your DM is iffy about it, there is the Brain Bioconstruct option to put a brain in your otherwise unitelligent construct like an Iron Golem, granting it skills and feats.

Your Homonculus needs a caster level to take item crafting feats (doesn't need spell slots, see the FAQ on SLAs). There is a Homonculus upgrade to give them SLAs.

>> No.33147315

>Cleric is one of the worst alchemist multiclasses.
I heard multiclassing in pathfinder is kind of weak (compared to 3.5, apparently)?

Although, I made a fun low-level barbarian/druid.
>Bull's Strength

Oh, the DM tears as I killed shit with +8 strength

>> No.33147329

From what I remember, the cost of a 7 HD Homonculus with Craft Wondrous Item, Craft Magic Arms and Armor and Cooperative crafting, the SLA upgrade, it costs something like 15k. Kind of cheap, especially if you convice the party to chip in or make extra ones.

Granted, I do think that Paizo's rules for adding HD to your constructs are poor. It should be a scaling cost, not a flat cost for each extra HD.

>> No.33147369

And as an alchemist I can first create the potions then create the the homunculus. It would have to be 3 hit die, correct? In order to get wondrous item creation and the cooperative crafting feats.

That would put the price at around 6500gp per homunculus. Not sure if it's worth it to go from double to triple crafting speed.

>> No.33147424


So the answer is "yes, if you're a beast rider cavalier halfling riding a dire rat made of your own tumor."

>> No.33147445

Not quite. 2 Points.

1. I'm not sure you can replace the first level feat. That might be "baked in" to all Homonculi. Ask your DM, he might be nice. If not, adding more HD isn't too expensive.

2. Cooperative Crafting has the prereq of one Item Crafting Feat. So a 5 HD creature could take CWI at 3rd, and Cooperative at 5.

Also, the potions. They should be very high level, I'd buy some CL 11 potions, so you could later upgrade it for Craft Staff and other high lvl crafting feats if you want that.

>> No.33147466

With this I'm starting at level 8, and I need to see how long I'm being given for "pre campaign item creation time"

>> No.33147473


Yeah, Familiars and Animal Companions are distinct things. They can't be the same thing.

BUT, lets say you use a polymorphing extract on your tumor familiar, like Beast Shape II. Then you can turn that tumor into a horse and ride it.

>> No.33147524

Meditant Psywar by a longshot.

>> No.33147555

>Doesn't fit in every dungeon
Horses are 2x1.

>> No.33147576

Multiclassing martials and casters is weak. If you want +8 strength though just go Barbarian 1 / Alchemist 1

>> No.33147587

NOPE. Maybe back in the dark days of 3.0. All large creatures are 2x2 in 3.5 and PF.

>> No.33147608

Dude, no, Aegis is all about armors, why you want to have monk levels? So you get more damage with our unarmed fist? why not pick the costumizations that give you more Str, damage, hardened Strikes and increase your weapon size instead.

>> No.33147619

Or barbarian/aegis, srly, I played a barbarian/aegis once, it was kinda awesome.

>> No.33147620

Tell your GM to stop being retarded.

>> No.33147627

Horses are medium creatures though.

>> No.33147649

Horses are large, anon.


>> No.33147661

Astral skin is the best form, anyway.

>> No.33147663

Tell me where it says there that horses are large?

>> No.33147680

Right after "size:"

>> No.33147692

Try reading.

>> No.33147697

Fuck, play a Soulfist(Soulknife archetype)/Aegis if you really wanna play a Aegis/Monk.

>> No.33147701


Starting Statistics

Size Large; Speed 50 ft.; AC +4 natural armor; Attack bite (1d4), 2 hooves* (1d6); Ability Scores Str 16, Dex 13, Con 15, Int 2, Wis 12, Cha 6; Special Qualities low-light vision, scent.

* This is a secondary natural attack, see Combat for more information on how secondary attacks work.

4th-Level Advancement

Ability Scores Str +2, Con +2; Special Qualities combat trained.

>> No.33147715

I like your suggestion my friend.

>> No.33147739

Oh good, was hoping for one of these topics. Quick spell question.


Well, 2 questions.

1. Does the sight obscurement only happen for creaturs inside the mist of just in general?(so would my party be annoyed if I dropped the mist on the enemies)

2. Does the save to avoid WIS damage just happen on the original cast or for each turn they spend inside the mist?

>> No.33147751

>There is literally no such thing as a third party class that is worse than a wizard.

Well, there are the 3 Godling classes and the Taskshaper.

>> No.33147765

1. Just in general
2. Ask your GM. I'd say each turn.

>> No.33147790

1. It's figment, so for everyone
2. It doesn't say anything about having to save every turn or the like, so probably just once or every time you enter the mists.

>> No.33147805

1. Explain your party, that the spell is an illusion. They will disbelieve it and see through it, except for the outlne.
2. As the other one said, ask your GM

>> No.33147812

Hmm, I might go take Heroism this level then. The WIS damage sounds nice, but tanking the rest of my party's hit chance doesn't sound so nice.

>> No.33147842

>1. Explain your party, that the spell is an illusion. They will disbelieve it and see through it, except for the outlne.

...Would that work in PF?

>checks illusion page

...well shit, guess so. This could work actually.

>> No.33147886

One of you would have to pass the save. Then everyone else would only get +4 to their save.

>> No.33147957

>1. Explain your party, that the spell is an illusion. They will disbelieve it and see through it, except for the outlne.
They just get another save with a +4 bonus if you do that. They don't automatically disbelieve.

>> No.33147960

Speaking of animal companions, what's the best one?

I'm partial towards the roc, but the giant mantis is downright horrifying.

>> No.33147964

"a character faced with proof that an illusion isn't real needs no saving throw."

>Dude, you know my magic shizzle, don't you? Everything is fake. Don't believe in anything I conjure!

Wouldn't this be proof?

>> No.33147971

Taskshaper is a nightmare because of bookkeeping.
Godling would get fucked by a wizard any day of the week.

>> No.33147975


>> No.33147979

>1. Explain your party, that the spell is an illusion. They will disbelieve it and see through it, except for the outlne.
That does not apply to haunting mists. While the mist is illusory, the Will save is not a Disbelief save. Illusions state when it is a disbelief save.

>> No.33147993


>> No.33148000

For wondrous item crafting, I need the spell to make the item right? I'm an alchemist, so I can't get a lot of spells. Does it actually have to be in my formula book or can I buy a wizard's spell book with the spell in it? How do I get around this.

>> No.33148006

In the first place, haunting mists can't be disbelieved. It would say if the Will save was a disbelief save (it's not).

In the second case, it's only definitive proof for you.

In the third case, "If any viewer successfully disbelieves an illusion and communicates this fact to others, each such viewer gains a saving throw with a +4 bonus." You do not auto-pass for hearing it's fake. You only get another save with a +4 bonus.

But you can't disbelieve haunting mists because it's not that kind of illusion.

>> No.33148012

>I need the spell to make the item right?
Not really, just add a +5 to the DC.

>> No.33148039

If the item is actually used to cast the spell(like scrolls and wands and potions), you need the spell. If the item merely has the spell as a prerequisite, not having the spell just increases the DC to craft it by 5. Also you can use scrolls in place of casting the spell normally.

>> No.33148067

Here are a few helpful hints for when you want to play a Cavalier!

First, go with as small a character as your GM with allow. The classic choice is Halfling, for all of those little bonuses that add up and for the boost to Dex and Cha, but Goblin is also an excellent choice. If you can get away with it, though, try playing a Tiny race (thus your mount can be Small, and your GM can't stop you from going anywhere because you can simply ask your teammates to pick up your puppy-mount).

Secondly, go immediately for the Samurai Alternative Class; despite the name and the flavor, all it really does is change Cavalier from being a Teamwork-using class (and Teamwork feats SUCK unless you're an Inquisitor) into a sturdy and strong warlord, with Last Stand at level 20 being extremely tempting.

Finally, choose a weapon that has reach if possible; otherwise, choosing something that grants Trip is a good secondary, while having something that does both is preferable.

>> No.33148091

My bad about the disbelief.

What does count as proof? Only interaction with the illusion?

>> No.33148099

Yes which is why a horse has ten foot reach!
Large Tall and Large Long have always been a thing.

>> No.33148112

Depends what you want. Here are my top picks

Chargers: Rhino, Arsinotherium, Megaloceros, Elephant, T-Rex, Spinosaurus, Triceratops

Pouncers: Big Cat, Allosaurus, Deinochyus

Flyers: Quetzacotlus, Roc, Vulture, Giant Bat

Tanks: Archelon, Snapping Turtle

Wields Weapons: Ape

>> No.33148130

Yeah, Horses are Large Long. 10x10 and 5 foot reach. Check the Bestiary too. thats what you'll find.

>> No.33148177

So anons, any suggested for fun 3rd party classes for my friends? I would love it if you could provide one rogue ish, one fighter ish, one wizard ish, etc.
I think the party will start on level 3.

>> No.33148205

Cryptic, Aegis, Psion

>> No.33148297

How does a tiny reach weapon work? You threaten 8 squares around you, but not the 1/4 square you are in?

>> No.33148314

Where do I find the DC for making wondrous items?

>> No.33148377

DC is 5+Caster level for that item.
If you don't meet one of the prerequisites (like not knowing the spell, etc) you just add +5 to the DC for every prerequisite you don't meet.

>> No.33148413

said is pretty apt.

However I'll provide you some other options just so your friends know more.
The Path of War has the Warlord and Warder for fighter like classes, but they use maneuvers which give them options and utility rather than just hittin' stuff.
They can hit real good too though.

Another interesting fighter choice is the Revenant Bloodletter from Liber Vampyr, which is free on the Necromancers of the Northwest website. Its a little complicated to build the character but playing it is fairly straightforward, its a lot like a fighter but with access to crazy vampire power feats, the need to drink blood to fuel class features/stay alive and some weaknesses you get to pick (though everyone gets light sunburn) like garlic, holy symbols, entering private places, crossing rivers and all sorts of other shit to custom build your own vampiric experience. It even has rogue and wizard classes for "Revenants" but those aren't as cool.

For those that want to just be big, In the Company of Giants by rite publishing has an excellent Jotun Paragon class that lets you be FUGGIN BIG. You start off at medium and in crease in size as you level up, taking powers to push you towards being more like the type of giant you want to emulate, form trolls to ettins to storm giants, you can be anything you please. Rite has also made several other "in the company of" products but I've never played them so i can't tell you much about their quality, only that I've heard the minotaur one is pretty good.

Oh, also for rogues the Deductionist by total party kill games is the PERFECT fucking sherlock holmes character.
It has some archetypes in the actual book (Dresden, James Bond and Batman) but the class itself is on d20PFSRD and is styled after the robert downey jr sherlock holmes films. http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/3rd-party-classes/total-party-kill-games-classes/deductionist

Batman takes forever to change costume though so dont ever take off costume.

>> No.33148443

Thank you for the suggestions, I have written them down.

>> No.33148534

I know I have probably asked this before but I forgot to write it down. I like the way that the gunslinger's grit pool can be recharged. Is there a good way to do this with Arcane pool and ki pool?

>> No.33148580

In general? Hungry ghost monk have ability to gain ki and hp on crits and kills. Stalker have ki part, but afair it's limited in uses/day for some reason.

>> No.33148616

You should probably reread the rules for magic item creation a couple times: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items#TOC-Magic-Item-Creation

>> No.33148670

I want to roll Jetstream Sam or Raiden, you know a cyborg ninja. What you recommend me? race and class.

>> No.33148685

A human ninja, duh.

>> No.33148888

My group is gonna start Reign of Winter soon, we have a Magus/Fighter, a Witch, a Gunslinger, and an Inquisitor. Any suggestions on what I should play? I'm open to pretty much any role.

>> No.33148923

There's warforged for PF, I don't remember the name though. Forgeborn?

>> No.33148955

Someone said the Brawler got cut a few threads ago.

>> No.33149037

Warforged aren't anything like cyborgs, though.

>> No.33149045


That strikes me as highly unlikely, although if they seriously decided THAT had to go and not the Arcanist, holy shit.

>> No.33149077

If it helps the Fighter is really dipping Magus and I think our Gunslinger might dip a few levels of Rogue and skill monkey.

>> No.33149120

Not looking forward to the Advanced Class Guide. We're getting to 3.5 levels of splat now.

A bunch of new classes, that won't get much support past this book. Like, some classes get so little support as it is (Summoner, Oracle, Ninja, Samurai, Antipaladin). If Paizo was smart they make it so that Bloodrager Bloodlines and Sorcerer Bloodlines are identical. So if a book publishes a new sorcerer bloodline, it functions for bloodragers too. Sadly, they haven't done this. These classes will quickly be forgotten.

>> No.33149122

Magus (Vanilla, Kensai or Bladebound). Fluff magic as nanomachines and being awesome. Race Human or Half-Elf, depending on what you go with.

>> No.33149212

>Only interaction with the illusion?
Pretty much. That or being the caster. Even if you Detect Magic and notice there is an illusion, you only get a +4 save.

There's also True Sight, of course. That will break any illusions automatically.

>> No.33149249

Why is a Tetsubo an exotic weapon?
Its a big metal stick. Shouldn't it be martial like the greatclub?

>> No.33149338

Don't bother trying to make sense of what is and isn't exotic, there isn't any. If it sounds odd to the designers(who may or may not have any idea what the weapon even looks like) it's exotic. Simple as that.

>> No.33149408

Oh man Paizo is getting pretty butthurt that people are concerned about the Arcanist.

Don't worry though, they say it's not significantly better than the wizard.

>> No.33149437

Even martial stuff makes no sense, like a greatclub is martial, what?

>> No.33149459


>It's not SIGNIFICANTLY better than the wizard.
>There are SOME times it's better than the wizard
>There are SOME times it's better than one of the most powerful classes in the game
>One of my players is almost guaranteed to want to roll one of these


>> No.33149467

I'd have to say an Aegis using Psychic Skin multiclassed with Stalker, Psychic Warrior, Magus, Ninja or... something.

>> No.33149516

Some of the late-era 3.5 classes were my favorite. PHB2 may have been my favorite 3.5 book.

>> No.33149539

To be fair on the Antipaladin front, its not a common class to see play, mostly a villain and they did just print two new archetypes for it a few months ago in Ultimate Combat.
An Anti-paladin who likes to unleash/awaken ancient evils (especially undead ones) and one that makes khorne seem like cautious moderate.

>> No.33149568

In 3.5 you used prestige classes, multiclassing and feats to "support" old stuff, you didn't need stuff explicitly designed for your class.
Paizo puts massive prerequisites on everything, makes PRCs weaker than regular classes and killed multiclassing stone cold dead. 3.5 classes could look at new content and find some way to mix it into their concept, PF classes have to have something explicitly designed for them.

>> No.33149630

Your party has most core roles covered, you really are in "play whatever you want" territory.
I don't think they would mind an Alchemist, Druid, Cleric or someone else that can emergency heal though, low levels can be violent.

>> No.33149753

warforged for PF? you mean that SMALL construct from last bestiary?

>> No.33149785

Alright /tg/ lets take a look at Paizo's responses for shits and giggles:

>" think some folks here might be reading a bit much into a relatively short preview. The class is good, but its not quite as powerful as some are making it out to be. Lets just take the rhetoric down a notch."
-via Jason Bulmahn

"1. It still needs Charisma. All of the DCs of its exploits are based off it (spell casting still goes off Int). There are some pretty cool exploits that you are going to want a decent DC on them to use properly.
The class still gets it higher level spells a level later, like a sorcerer but has fewer spell slots to cast those spells compared to a sorcerer.
We did tinker with the formula for your arcane reservoir, slightly increasing your starting pool, but greatly reducing the overall cap to limit the burn cycle.
I think that a lot of folks are claiming this class is overpowered without having seen it in play. Is it good? Yes. Is it significantly better than a sorcerer or a wizard? No. It burns through its slots faster than a sorcerer and has a narrower focus than a wizard, which is exactly what it was designed to do."
-via Jason Bulmahn

"The point of this class was to be close to the wizard and sorcerer and I think that we managed to pull that off. In some games, depending on your play styles, it may be a little better than one or other other, in other games it will be a little less good than one or other."
-via Jason Bulmahn

>> No.33149829

Nope. Ultimate Psionics, p15-16.

>> No.33149838

Poorly. Meditant is better. And easier to build.
If your GM allows 3.5 content you could simply go Monk 1/Soulknife Soulfist 19 with the Tashalatora feat. And/or get some Broken Blade maneuvers (1-3 levels of Stalker will add nicely, you also have the Figther's Blade feat so you can count up to 4 'missed' levels as Soulknife levels for your Enhanced Mind Blade)

>> No.33149879

No and No

>> No.33149975

Reading it right now, seems a little meh, you mean the forgeborn, right? but again, cyborgs aren´t robots.

>> No.33149990

Decisive Strike Monk 2/Psywar 18 with tashalatora was a great build back in 3.5, very good gish.

>> No.33150208

Forgeborn are awful at everything but being a Cavalier.
At cavalier they are the best because they use their mount as extra HP and give their mount their psionic feats, which whilst mostly useless... there is one that lets you run up walls and ceilings.

>> No.33150209

For the record, Exploits from the playtest that do not require Cha:

Bloodline Development (Gain bloodline arcana and bloodline 1st level power, can spend 1 arcane point to count Arcanist leve as Sorceror level for those two abilities)
>Consume Magic Items (Consume charges or uses to gain Arcane pools)
Counter Spell (spend an arcane point and a spell as immediate action to counter spell as if using dispel magic)
>Dimensional Slide (move action teleport ignoring AoOs 10 ft. per level, costs 1 arcane point)
Item Crafting (free item creation feat)
>Metamagic Knowledge (free metamagic feat)
Metamixing (spend 1 arcane point to add a metamagic feat increasing spell level as normal but leaving casting time alone, can use this to add metamagic feats to prepared spells)
Potent Magic (spend 1 arcane point to increase DC by 2 or caster level by 2)
>School Understanding (select 1 wizard school and no opposition schools, you gain the abilities as if a first level wizard - using cha for dcs, can spend 1 arcane point to increase effects as if wizard level = arcanist level)
See Magic (constant Detect Magic, spend 1 point for a minute long buff which treats any knowledge arcana checks for auras as if she studied it for 3 rounds and rolled a 15 or if she touches a magic item it treats the spellcraft check as if she spend 3 rounds studying it)
>Spell Tinker (spend 1 arcane point to increase or decrease an adjacent spell effect or one targeting her by 50%)

Next post, Major Exploits

>> No.33150434

No, but the Sensei still adds WIS to AC.

If you're going Sensei, combine the archetype with Monk of the Four Winds. Elemental Fist is more useful than Stunning Fist and at 12th level you can use Slow Time to give the whole party 3 extra nonmagical actions.

>> No.33150469

Hey quick question, with "Up The Walls" the psionic feat, what exactly is the advantage to expending your psionic focus? You can either move and then have to end your move on flat ground, or expend focus and... have the same restriction but its until the end of your turn instead of during that move action at no cost.

I'm at a loss to see the point of expending focus.

>> No.33150557

Counter Drain (whenever you counterspell you gain a number of arcane points depending on spell level)
>Greater Metamagic Knowledge (gain a bonus metamagic feat, each morning when preparing spells can spend 1 arcane point to exchange metamagic feat for another)
Greater Spell Disruption (spend 1 point to ranged touch attack to disrupt a magic item or spell effect as if using dispel magic, can add cha to dispel check - not required cha)
>Siphon Spell (when using Greater Spell Disruption, if you dispel by a big enough success you gain arcane points back)
Spell Thief (can steal spell effects off people in the party - so long as they aren't range personal or duration permanent -or can take spell effects off the enemy as a touch attack followed by will save, costs 1 arcane point - not required cha if taking spells from allies)

>> No.33150831

If you make it last till the end of your turn you can double move, or run [4x speed]. So ditching psionic focus would let you run up say, 60 or 120 feet of distance instead of just 30.

>> No.33151117

One thing I don't get with the ACG is that people seem to get all up in a new class or feat's business because it steps on the toes of something like the fighter, or the monk, or the rogue, but they don't seem to mind when a spellcasting class drives its stiletto heel through the foot of another nearby class nearly as much.

Like, if people don't care about the legitimate power concerns the Arcanist represents, I'd at least expect a less positive response to a class that seems intentionally designed to step on the toes of every existing arcane class except maybe the bard, and probably bard, too.

>> No.33151190

I still don't get why people bother trying to save the wreck that is the fighter class.
Path of War is overpowered bullshit. Tome of Battle is much more sane.

>> No.33151304

I once rolled up a crafter alchemist for shits and giggles.

I think he ended up with.... +70, or so, at level 5. Something like that.

>> No.33151316

"Overpowered" is a term with no meaning in 3.5/PF, due to the wild differences in power levels amongst classes. Instead, the Tier-System is used to accurately measure what is and isn't "overpowered", a term that only really means anything in intra-party dynamics.

That said, both PoW and ToB are settled in Tier 3, and I'm pretty sure ToB is stronger.

>> No.33151376

Really hope we get a good multi-eidolon archetype. Broodmaster is kinda eh unless you build a firing squad.

>> No.33151410

I'm pretty sure you've never read Path of War or Tome of Battle if you think ToB is stronger.

>> No.33151412

What are some useful applications for multiple weaker eidolons anyway? Peasant railgun?

>> No.33151444

Skill monkeys with that +8 racial bonus for 1 point.
Give them all gun proficiency and make a firing line.
Haven't tried it yet but the idea of a couple built around aid another/dirty trick/antagonize in combat might or might not work.

>> No.33151469

>Implying peasant railgun works relies on anything but autistic grade functional illiteracy

>> No.33151792

How about you actually mention what's "too strong" about Path of War?

>> No.33151839

Seems paizo literally hates summoner so who knows.

>> No.33151885

I wish they hated Rogues as much as they do summoners, truly.

Seriously, cut the fucking tears and get off the crosses, you already play one of the most broken caster classes

>> No.33151997

You don´t know what hates mean, let me explain it to you, hates means when you actively try to destroy something, not when you ignore it. Paizo ignores the summoner while hates monks, rogues, gunslingers and some others.

Summoner is NOT hated you entitled whiny bitch.

>> No.33152121


See, with the summoner it seems to be a rare case of Paizo realizing the screwed the pooch on class balancing and quietly ignored it in hopes it would go away.

With the fighter and the rogue, Paizo not only forgets to give them nice things, it denies them nice things to give to their favorite classes instead and then weakens future classes on the basis that the Fighter and Rogue do not have nice things.

>> No.33152141

...no, I'm pretty sure he has. Path of War has nothing on Ruby Knight Vindicator even when you're not abusing the class to kingdom come and the Swordsage is a much stronger class than the Stalker.

>> No.33152165


20 (24) Int, 11+ cha, Dump everything else

Human (heart of the fields)
Loracle (Seer) 1/Witch 1/Alchemist 3


Extra Revelation: Focused Trance
Skill Focus: Craft (Alchemy)
Prodigy (Alchemy, Underwater Basket Weaving)
Master Alchemist

Discovery: Infusion

Focused Trance
Natural Divination



Oracle Spells:
Embrace Destiny (pre-roll)
Moment of Greatness (Double Morale bonus)

Alchemist Spells:
Crafter's FOrtune

Items: Hat of +4 Int

Familiar: Monkey
"Jesse", Valet Archetype, +6 craft alchemy base

Vow to provide a shipment of high quality poisons/drugs. Spend ten minutes watching birds. Drink extract of crafter's fortune. Force-feed Jesse potion of crafter's fortune. Cast Moment of greatness. Go into focused trance for 1d6 rounds. Use embrace destiny up to three times, taking best or 10 as described later. Make magic happen.

5 ranks
3 class skill
7 int
2 racial (heart of the fields)
2 trait (artisan)
2 aid another
3 untyped (skill focus)
2 untyped (prodigy)
2 untyped (master alchemist)
5 luck (crafter's fortune)
4 insight (cauldron)
20 circumstance (focused trance)
10 competence (divination)
8 morale (legalistic vow)+moment of greatness

=+75 modifier to the roll.

Now, speaking of the roll: we get to make two goes at the roll due to embrace destiny, and take 10 if neither works out properly. The issue at hand is that there's only a one-round window to get crafting due to low duration. Procedure is as follows: Use it once, use it again. If the first was the highest and above 10, get to crafting and keep it. If the second was the highest and above 10, use ED one last time and keep the highest. If neither was above 10, use ED again- if above 10, keep, if below 10, take 10.

Don't have the math for it, but brute-forcing it says that the average is a little bit above 15.


>> No.33152185


Production value = Check result x DC

For reasons to be discussed later, we have to be making poison. Optimally, the last digit of the DC is 5 (85 is the highest that we can be certain the craft score will hit)

Let's say insanity mist, because bitches love insanity mist.

90 x 85 = 7650 sp/week = 1093 sp/day

Master Alchemist causes progress to be measured in GP/day, not sp

=1093 gp/day

Master Alchemist also lets your poison output in doses for a given unit of time be equal to your int modifier (7) instead of the default one.

=7650 gp/day

Swift Alchemy doubles this number


Doubled again by Jesse's cooperative crafting help

=30,600 gp/day

10,200 materials
15,300 sell price

5,100 gp profit/day.

>> No.33152716

Discipline: Golden Lion (Strike); Level: 5
Prerequisites: 2 Golden Lion maneuvers
Initiation Action: 1 standard action
Range: Any attack
Target: One creature
Duration: One round
The Golden Lion disciple delivers a telling blow, shat-tering bones and piercing defenses alike as he presses
the foe into opening vital places for his allies to gain pur-chase. The initiator makes an attack inflicting an addi-tional 6d6 points of damage. Allies who attack the target of this maneuver inflict an additional 3d6 points of dam-age on successful attacks for one round.

Elder Mountain Hammer
(Tome of Battle: The Book of Nine Swords, p. 82)

Stone Dragon (Strike)
Level: Crusader 5 (Two Stone Dragon maneuvers), Swordsage 5 (Two Stone Dragon maneuvers), Warblade 5 (Two Stone Dragon maneuvers),
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Melee attack
Target: One creature or unattended object
When you use this maneuver, you make a single melee attack. That attack deals an extra 6d6 points of damage and automatically overcomes damage reduction and hardness.

The PoW maneuvers overall are stronger than ToB maneuvers. The PoW classes are overall stronger than ToB.

The new PoW splat has RKV 2.0

>> No.33152859

Those two maneuvers have completely different uses. If you wanted a real level 5 maneuver to compare it to, you'd look at Flanking Strike, which is significantly better, Pouncing Charge, which is much better when you have the charge boosting stance on, or Dancing Mongoose, which is a swift action attack.

>> No.33153025

Those two aren't a very good comparison as they are supposed to be used in different circumstances. I would say that EMH is a stronger manoeuvre overall for its utility (Like smashing through walls, barriers, anything you fucking want aww yeah baby.) while Roar of Battle is more like a White Raven manoeuvre. EMH also has those fringe cases where you just destroy something with has a ton of DR or hardness while Roar doesn't have those usages.

A better comparison is things like Primal Frenzy and Girallion Windmill Flesh Rip or Adamantine Hurricane. In the cases where you are built to abuse Primal Frenzy (which isn't very difficult.) it is much much stronger than both of those manoeuvres, but in the normal usage they will probably be equivalent. Which isn't a particularly good sign since Primal Frenzy is 7th level and the two others are 8th level, but Primal Frenzy sticks out to me as an outlier in the strength curve.

>> No.33153026

>Flanking Maneuver
Discipline: Golden Lion (Strike); Level: 2
Initiation Action: 1 standard action
Range: Melee attack
Target: One creature
Duration: Instant
With a powerful strike, the Golden Lion disciple push-es his foe into the waiting arms of his allies and their
hungry blades. The initiator makes a melee attack that
inflicting an additional 1d6 points of damage and forc-ing his foe to make a 5ft movement from the square he is
currently occupying. If the target is incapable of move-ment, then the target simply takes the damage as normal.
This movement provokes attacks of opportunity to all
those capable of making them against the target except
for the initiator of this maneuver.
Don't even need to be flanking, and they get it as a 2nd level maneuver

>Pouncing Charge
Discipline: Primal Fury (Strike); Level: 2
Initiation Action: 1 full round action
The initiator makes a charge attack and makes a full attack at the end of the charge against the target creature. He must focus all of these attacks against a single target, and if the target is brought to 0 or fewer hit points, then remaining attacks are lost as the initiator savages the foe’s body with the remaining attacks
Again, 2nd level

>> No.33153116

Pounce at 3rd level isn't really useful and Path of War doesn't have the same charge support 3.5 did. It's better for Eidolons to snag through Martial Training than it is for initiators, since just about nobody else is going to have full attacks at those levels.

>> No.33153159

Hm, I agree Roar of Battle does a ton of damage with an ally but Elder Mountain Hammer has different uses. It bypasses DR and Hardness which means you can also use it to destroy almost any object in one blow. It allows for some disgusting sundering, among other uses.

>> No.33153162

They still have it available to them at 6th level, when they're getting two attacks plus one more from haste, and TWF if they're into that, as opposed to waiting until 9th level.

>> No.33153168

Pouncing Charge:
>As part of initiating this maneuver, you make a charge attack. Instead of making a single attack at the end of your charge, you can make a full
attack. The bonus on your attack roll for making a charge attack applies to all your attack rolls.

>> No.33153177

ToB's many maneuvers allow you to create DCs based on the Strength Score. PoW requires them to run off one of the Mental scores. ToB's recovery method, depending on the class, is automatic, full in a standard round, or a FRA plus feat tax. PoW's recovery method, is recovering at minimum, 2, and getting a benefit from the recovery method, which is more varied for each class, and more active towards gameplay.

PoW's maneuvers are more varied, while ToB is clearly focusing on three archetypes that you can't easily expand out of. PoW gets that point because it looked to ToB as inspiration, and learned from it.

Frankly, both books have their strong points, and weaknesses. For ToB, depending on your class, you will ALWAYS have a maneuver ready.For PoW, you recover them a bit slower. In ToB, your choices in battle plans are expanded, but not -too- great in combat, but what you can do, you do -good-. In PoW, you can do good, but not as GOOD as ToB, but your options are more varied.

To say one is better than the other, is to compare Rolling Stones, and Elvis. Sure, they're the same thing, entertainers, but they did it differently, and both brought things we loved. Path of War is a love letter to Tome of Battle, and wishing it had time to expand. So Path of War did it for them.

>> No.33153178

Eh, you can easily have 3 natural attacks.

>> No.33153200

Early pounce is good. All classes should be able to pounce with a full attack imo

>> No.33153235

And then the game becomes even more rocket tag-like than it already is.

>> No.33153331

No? It just means that you aren't fucked if you want to play a TWF or 2H character if you're not a Barbarian. Don't be a fucking retard; it was never okay for classes to be shafted by the full attack mechanic.

>> No.33153363

>What's that? You lost initiative?
>Enjoy being flatfooted while the fighter rips into you with 5+ attacks before you even have your buffs up.

>> No.33153367

The game make become more rocket tag-like, but when lots and lots of the monsters past a certain point have pounce, not giving it to the dudes who job it is to put the big heavy metal shiv into the big scary monster, just makes it harder for them to compete with the everscaling HP values.

Full attacks are such a fucking stupid idea.

>> No.33153395

Archers can already do that in Pathfinder.

Barbarians can already do that.

Druids and Summoner Eidolons can do that with much, much higher speed than the Fighter has

Fuck off and stop pretending that martials getting shit on is a good thing.

>> No.33153429


No shit summoner is broken, what I want is for them to take the concept somewhere mechanically interesting instead of haphazardly making it have mutually exclusive core abilities as a substitute for balance.

The only archetype that gets close to that is the Master Summoner (and in truth, looks more like what the baseline summoner should've been) where you can actually have ability synergy, but yeah, that one is OP by buffing the SLA since paizo doesn't know what balance is.

>> No.33153436

Not really.

Right now it's just at the stage where any martial without pounce is honestly better off using a bow to full attack (and before you say bows do less damage, they get more attacks).

Allowing martials to pounce would just make melee builds viable.

>> No.33153450

Who do Lizardfolks worship in Golaranionania

>> No.33153461

>School Understanding (select 1 wizard school and no opposition schools, you gain the abilities as if a first level wizard - using cha for dcs, can spend 1 arcane point to increase effects as if wizard level = arcanist level)
This is sick. Especially if it works with subschools. Holy fuck.

>> No.33153471

The Druid's animal companions does that too.

One of the many things that makes Fighters look ridiculous.

>> No.33153486

Why the fuck, Paizo?

Why would you EVER give the Arcanist access to bullshit like the Diviner Wizard's school powers?

>> No.33153494

>Elemental Fist is more useful than Stunning Fist
>this shitty SoL is better than this useless damage

>> No.33153514

Stunning Fist has a fucking terrible DC and targets Fort. That's a really bad combination.

>> No.33153518

So i'm making a Pharasmin Cleric, her domains don't seem that amazing but does anyone have any opinions on them? I'm thinking of going with Ice and Healing.

>> No.33153599

Strong choice in Divination.

You can always act in the surprise round even if you fail to make a Perception roll to notice a foe, but you are still considered flat-footed until you take an action. In addition, you receive a bonus on initiative checks equal to 1/2 your wizard level (minimum +1). At 20th level, anytime you roll initiative, assume the roll resulted in a natural 20.

Pick up Sandals of Quick Reaction for funsies as well:

>When the wearer acts during a surprise round, he can take a standard and a move action during the surprise round. If the wearer already has the ability to take a standard and a move action during the surprise round, he instead gains a +10 circumstance bonus to speed when acting during a surprise round.

>> No.33153629

Healing is a waste of a domain. Empower on healing is nice but wands of cure wounds will fix you just as well after the fight.

>> No.33153652

And? Especially at low levels, it's still golden because they are friggin' stunned for one round and at higher levels, even the chance to stun someone is better than not doing anything because the monster had energy resistance 10/20/30 or straight immunity (which they often have).

>> No.33153660

Oh, I see.
I've never played a Cleric before so I just picked what seemed to be a good idea, i'll switch it to Repose or something.

>> No.33153699

So I wanna make a Bard who is an expert wiht the whip, trippin and disarm from 15 feet all day erry day. Any feats and things I should know about?

>> No.33153709

Is it bad that my character produces highly expensive poisons and blightpaste to sell for profit? I was given eight months before the campaign to do with what ever I wanted with my character. He was in a massive city (above 1 million indivudals), so I applied my trade as an alchemist making expensive items and selling them at half market price.

At level 8 this produces 35k gold over the eight months.

>> No.33153755

Protip: Don't.
I can tell you from experience that it will suck.

Experience 1: One of my buddies tried it, it sucked and he got frustrated, we let him switch his shit, because everybody saw that the tripping did almost nothing.

Experience 2: Our GM threw a trip-master dude at us. Our martials proceeded to beat his sorry ass while lying on the ground - it was smarter to stay down than to risk all the AOOs.

>> No.33153778

>Is it bad that my character produces highly expensive poisons and blightpaste to sell for profit?
How the fuck should we know? We don't have to play with you. If it fits your campaign, it surely can't hurt.

Although it sounds more like your GM is an idiot and you should talk to him. Crazy, right?

>> No.33153806

No, I mean is it an evil act to supply a city is poison?

>> No.33153826


>> No.33153844

Again, check back with your GM.

You could just run a business or you could have just supplied the crime biz with all the poison to kill your party off.

>> No.33153846

Well, damn that is a shame. I was hoping to have a role in combat that was actually different from our usual "smack shit till it dies" sort of thing.

>> No.33153864

Have you tried playing a caster?

>> No.33153883

No, thats why I wanted to try a Bard. They seemed to be a genuine utility sort of class.

>> No.33153919

What level are you starting at? Bard's not everyones cup of tea and starts really slow.

>> No.33153921

There is a place in the city known as "The Alchemical Institute" which is a hobgoblin run institute of alchemical learning. I can probably sell it to them, but I'll ask my GM.

>> No.33153928

Level 7, almost 8

>> No.33153965

That's not really an advantage over ToB, which was multiclass friendly and could get pounce in a 1 level dip since ToB was a 3.5 book.

>> No.33154020

Eh, you could try bard, because with level 7 you've already reached the point where starting your performance doesn't ruin your whole day.

What kind of enemies are you facing? If you're fighting a lot of humanoids, then you could try a control/support mix, but the control side of a bard is rather heavy on the Enchantment (mind affecting side). So if you face undeads and other stuff that's immune or has brutal will saves (mostly in the outsider department there), trying to do control will not get you far.

Personally, I'm not a big fan of trying to build solely for support/control on a bard. You could go support/archery though, that's ok.

>> No.33154043

Aasimar Bard with the Flagbearer feat and the Banner of Ancient Kings that's using their favored class bonus to pump Inspire Courage. Attach it to a Longspear and let the massive bonuses roll.

>> No.33154117

>Banner of Ancient Kings: 18000 gp
>WBL for a lvl 7 character: 23500 gp
Looks bad already

>aasimar bonus: +3 inspire courage level
>banner: +4 inspire courage level
>bard level: 7
>total: lvl 14 inspire courage
Close call to the drop-off at lvl 15, but you're providing a +2 morale bonus to hit and damage through flagbearer and another +3 to hit and damage through inspire.
It's okay, but without the banner you're not loosing out on much at lvl 7 - but if you shelve it for level 8 you might never get it because you're adventuring.

>> No.33154187

>What is the glory that was ADND
Reminder that a thrown dagger to the chest was the best opener against a mage.

>> No.33154223

Most buildomancy relies on a) "The DM will totally shower you in magic items" and b) "Teamwork is only good if I have the limelight" so take it with a grain of salt and discuss with the DM

>> No.33154326

>Most buildomancy relies on a) "The DM will totally shower you in magic items"
This is an assumption because the opposite assumption both runs counter to what the game itself says AND it breaks the game's functioning worse than giving the players magic items.

Following WBL is an entirely reasonable assumption.

>> No.33154538

I have seen this claim hundreds of times yet nothing that actually substantiates it beyond "but casters steal the spotlight without". AD&D damage immunities were a yes/no thing, whereas 3.X merely has resistance, so any claim that it's somehow harder is entirely the realm of entitlement. Ability bonuses pile on like crazy where you needed sky high stats to get anything more than a pat in the back.

>> No.33154681

>I have seen this claim hundreds of times yet nothing that actually substantiates it
It's pretty simple.

A) There are mathematical bonuses the game assumes you will have. These include bonuses to your stats, magic weapons, magic armor, and resistance bonuses to saves.

B) Martials cannot get these bonuses without magic items, or if they can, they're on an extremely limited basis, like the Paladin's piss-poor spells per day allowing them to cast Bull's Strength maybe once later on and Weapon Bond allowing them to enchant their weapon a few times in exchange for not having their mount, which is very clearly a better choice.

C) Spellcasters can get all of these bonuses through their class features, and not on an extremely limited basis.

>> No.33154693

The math of the monsters is set so that it assumes you have a level appropriate weapon and armour for your level.

Also, without WBL you lose the way to interact with many of myriad monster abilities without a spellcaster in the crew. Such as invisibility or flight. Also resistance is pierced by magical weapons. Each + pierces a new tier up to adamantine at +5 if I remember correctly.

Also your saves will be ridiculously low without the nice flat bonus a cloak will give unless you play (surprise surprise) a caster due to their usual reliance on the mental stats and Con, leaving you incredibly vulnerable to level approriate casters and monsters with SLA (as monsters tend to have HUGE ability scores, especially in the stat that scales their SLA. Look at the succubus for an example.)

All in all, getting no money is doable. The DM just has to chuck a lot shitter monsters at you. Or you need to be a caster that is making pretty good choices with his spells. If thats how you like to play then cool. I however like the feeling of progression and not getting absolutely reamed by normal monsters that I should be able to take on by how the system measures me.

>> No.33154750

Also DR is no joke, it absolutely destroys two-weapon fighting peoples days. Removing up to 20 (sometimes even higher) damage from each attack will make a fight that should be manageable into a fucking hellish encounter. Its why Demons and Devils are such assholes to fight before you get enough money together to carry your little satchel of backup weapons to break through DR.

>> No.33154764

> invisibility
Blind fighting
> flight
>Also resistance is pierced by magical weapons.
AD&D had no such thing as resistance. You either had the material required or you didn't and hoped to fuck there was another way to take it out if it got angry, that's it. Use fucking folklore weaknesses. It's tabletop, not vidya, have some goddamn creativity.

>> No.33154814

If you're playing the bomber build. Precise Bomb discovery and Splash Weapon Mastery is a must.

Unless you want to be a jerk who keep killing his own party.

>> No.33154823

If you have no money, how the fuck are you supposed to get the weapons and materials to pierce their DR. Special material weapons are expensive as fuck.

Blind Fighting is a long chain of feats which not everyone will take. It also doesn't let you KNOW WHERE THEY ARE. It just makes it easier to hit them you idiot. If you don't know where they are, they can do whatever the fuck they want.

If a monster has flight, you can usually bet it has DR. WHAT WRECKS RANGED WEAPONS WHEN YOU AREN'T SPECIALISED? MOTHERFUCKING DR.

Good to see you understand how the system works.

>> No.33154831

>AD&D damage immunities were a yes/no thing, whereas 3.X merely has resistance, so any claim that it's somehow harder is entirely the realm of entitlement.
No it isn't you fucking retard.

AD&D monsters had considerably lower AC AND HP than monsters in 3.5/PF have and AD&D does not have the iterative system, instead giving you extra attacks at a single attack bonus. The largest source of damage you get in is from Power Attack... which requires you to trade your accuracy away... and if you don't HAVE that accuracy thanks to lacking magic items to boost your STR and you're lacking enhancement bonuses, you will never land an attack that does any damage.

>> No.33154833

Eh, burning the arcane point only gives you a limited duration iirc so really you just get a "cannot be surprised ever." The initiative bonus will be zero.

Still very good, of course.

>> No.33154857

And with the Foresight school you get a shitload of rerolls on your turn.

>> No.33154860

So how are the third party Psionic rules in this system? Are they good? Are they fun?

>> No.33154911

You don't have the attack bonus to hit them because you don't have magic items, which is something we just covered.

Fuck off, retard.

>> No.33154943

Dreamscarred press is 87% good in my opinion. Balanced, fun, unique.

>> No.33154959

They are really fun. They are slightly worse than magic in some ways, better in others. They have some stupid abuses but in general are effective.

Use them if you get a chance, see if you like them.

>> No.33154993

>It just makes it easier to hit them you idiot.
>Without having a vague idea where they are
I don't think you get how hitting shit works

I'm going through the PF Bestiary and the 3.5 MM and I'm not seeing that AC thing at all; when you add up the significantly higher TH bonuses from abilities and the fact that AB doesn't cap at level 20 like it did in advanced, even epic level shit seems to compare fairly well. I'll grant HP, which is stupid fucking design.

>> No.33155047

what would be a good multiclass to make gunslinger most viable? cleric?

>> No.33155125

>and I'm not seeing that AC thing at all
...do you even know what iteratives are?

You have to full attack to do any damage worth talking about. You take a stacking -5 penalty on every iterative. Without magic at all, something like a Fighter is capped at +33 to hit and 2d6+18 before Power Attack on their FIRST attack. After Power Attack, it's +27 to hit for a full attack routine of +27/+22/+17/+12 for 2d6+36. Half of those attacks have a less-than-half chance of landing.

>> No.33155176

If you can't see them, you can swing randomly in the square around you hoping to get lucky. If you hit em and don't fail due to 50% miss chance (which is rerolled if you miss due to blind fight yay), woo. You hit them. Once. Then they move away from you and because they are invisible, they have total concealment meaning you can't make any opp attacks or anything to stop them. Now you have no idea where they are at all and are completely at their mercy. Blind fighting is awful if you have no way to detect the enemy you are trying to hit in the first place, when shit is dusty or you have someone telling you where the dude is, then it has its uses. Blind Fighting doesn't give truesight when you hit someone, and when someone is invisible you are still swinging randomly around hoping they are there. It does however help against some standard spells like blur and its similar things.

On attack bonuses, AC scales much slower than your first attack. This usually means even with power attack penalties and other penalties and then your bonuses, you are nearly 100% sure hit to them with your first attack. (As long as they don't have an miss chance from blur or whatever.) However, to cut down a monster easily you need to do a lot of damage due to insane hp scaling.

If you hit them with one attack a round, your gonna get destroyed and if you can't pierce their DR due to a non-magical or non correct material. Then your first hit will hurt, but it won't hurt that much. But your second and third (or even 4th) attack have a stacking -5 to hit, so you will mostly likely miss your next attacks without the nice juicy bonuses magical equipment will give you.

>> No.33155227

>I'm going through the PF Bestiary and the 3.5 MM and I'm not seeing that AC thing at all;
Yeah, sure, buddy.

The Tarrasque in AD&D has an AC of -3, the equivalent of an AC of 23. The Pathfinder Tarrasque has an AC of 40, which is effectively an AC of 46 because you have to Power Attack to do anything to the fucker.

>> No.33155261

Is it just me or is Blood Money a horrible idea?
Say, does having less than 50 Str mean you cannot take 50 Str damage, or just that you'll be out for 25 days (provided you have some means of sustenance while you're immobile for a month?)

>> No.33155335


>> No.33155347

Blood money is pretty good if you have a buddy to heal you afterwards. It lets you cast some really good spells for free. I don't think you can take more strength damage than your ability score and since you cast it to get the component, wouldn't that mean you would go unconscious before casting the spell even if you can take more and go into negative effective score?

>> No.33155350

The Tarrasque in AD&D isn't a level 25 encounter in a game system where by that point the fighter will have an inherent bonus to hit and damage of at least +5 without magic items or feats of any kind. I'll immediately admit that the 3e fighter sucks both compared to the versatility of the 2e fighter and the overall group dynamics of 3.x but raw combat numbers prior to specialization isn't the issue.

>> No.33155377

Can anyone recommend a good non-mounted Fighter Charge build? One that focuses on Two handed weapons?

The DM in the game is letting me play a Salamander and I want to be some sort of charge monster. Right now I've got Lion totem Barbarian for Pounce to make my charges awesome when I get multiple attacks.

What feats should I look at?

>> No.33155404

Elemental Fist is "choose your element" so they would have to have resist against all four of cold/fire/acid/electricity. Usually if a monster is immune to one of them, it's vulnerable to another, which really just means bonus damage for you.

As for Stunning Fist, at those higher levels enemies need to roll nat 1s to succeed. And then you're full attacking with unarmed strikes just for that miniscule chance of stunning. It's a bad deal. At least Elemental Fist will give you a solid damage bonus to make full attacking with unarmed strikes useful.

>> No.33155526

Str damage does not--

huh, wonder why they changed that for PF. Dex damage still doesn't.

>> No.33155532

really? any reason why? i thought inquisitor wasn't too great.

>> No.33155556

Inquisitor is actually pretty good. They just need a lot of attacks to make their bonuses shine, which guns give them. You don't even need a lot of Dexterity to do it.

>> No.33155559

Dex damage makes you paralysed, effectively rendering you unconcious. No spell casting with 0 dex with buddy.

>> No.33155665

Inquisitor is a solid tier 3. For a dip, they get their toys (Judgement / some of the level 1 spell) faster than Cleric.

They also get some helpful combat spell that Cleric didn't get like Wrath and Longshot (also True Strike if you face an enemy with high touch AC).

>> No.33155686

A character with a Dexterity score of 0 is incapable of moving and is effectively immobile (but not unconscious).

>> No.33155720

Wouldn't it be better to go 5 in gunslinger, then the rest in Inquisitor if you wanted to combine them? Because if i'm not mistaken most of the time you only really need 5 in gunslinger and then their point is done.

>> No.33155807

Also Alchemist and Gunslinger is very efficent.
And apearntly Synthesis Summoner and gunslinger is good.

>> No.33155850

You can still cast with Still spell metamagic.

>> No.33155988

>effectively immobile
>(but not unconscious).
Do infact believe this is true.
Unless you rule say that due to being unable to move your jaw properly you'd also need slient but.
Yeah either way you can still cast spells with a use of a metamagic or two.
And I am pretty sure that you cannot, indeed take more damage then you have strength score.

>> No.33156094

A character with a Strength score of 0 is too weak to move in any way and is unconscious. Some creatures do not possess a Strength score and have no modifier at all to Strength-based skills or checks.

>> No.33156119

Synthesis with anything is good. Having more useable limps and access to pounce make life a lot easier for martial.

>> No.33156247

Wait. What. Yeah I had a fucking retard moment I'm sorry.
I was like. "Talking about Str." Lets refer to dex!..

>> No.33158130

What're our predictions for the Iconic Arcanist?

Will he be the Mary Sue of anyone in particular?

>> No.33158140

Path of War is a 3rd party supplement.

A damn good one, but third party none the less.

>> No.33158187

Nah, its a halfling or gnome female iirc.

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