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File: 79 KB, 497x547, Tzeentch_political_poster.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
32454440 No.32454440 [DELETED]  [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

Why is Tzeentch so much better, and cooler than Khorne, and Nurgle?

Why doesn't everyone just worship Tzeentch?

>> No.32454459

You need ambition to worship Tzeentch.

not everyone have ambition.

>> No.32454474

>>32454440
Too busy worshipping Slaanesh

>> No.32454488

>>32454440
Tzeentch isn't so cool when Khorne punches him in his stupid bird face and stuffs him in a locker.

>> No.32454550
File: 21 KB, 256x331, pic1543894.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
32454550

>>32454488
>implying this isn't according to plan
>implying Khorne won't be stuffed in a locker for all eternity

Tzeentch has more class than all the chaos gods. Truly the spiritual liege of Chaos.

Pic related.

>> No.32454554

>>32454440
Because some aspects of same phenomenon apply to certain people better than the source itself.

As presented by Hindu pantheon.

>> No.32454593

He's a NEEEEEEEEEEERRRRDDDD.

>> No.32454595

>>32454550
>Implying Khorne, the mighiest of the chaos gods could be harmed in any way by big birds little brother.

>> No.32454671
File: 225 KB, 727x1024, Tzeentch the Changer of Ways.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
32454671

All this Tzeentch-wank and no pictures of our Great Mutator. I'll fix this.

>> No.32454684

>>32454595
Yes.

Tzeentech says "fuck you, now the change is no more". Tadaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa, Khorne is frozen, motionless, doesn't move and doesn't even realize it.

...because Violence is only an aspect of Change.

>> No.32454695
File: 28 KB, 429x399, 1392431394581.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
32454695

>>32454593

Basically this.

Every single motherfucker who runs a Tzeentch themed CSM or Daemon army are usually total nerds who ALWAYS play mages / wizards / spell users in other tabletop games.

Khornites are usually edgy faggots.

Slaaneshi are either /d/eviants or eldar players who love eldar lore so much their second/third army is as closely related to eldar as you can get.

Nurglites are total bros though, and usually the most talented in terms of modelling, greenstuff and painting.

In my experience anyway.

>> No.32454712

>>32454671
>Tzeentch
>Eight pointed architecture
JustAsPlanned.jpg

>> No.32454719
File: 229 KB, 652x964, Tzeetch the Great Mutator.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
32454719

>>32454671

I'm personally more fan of Nurgle, but gotta give it to the Changer of Ways, he has almost two times destroyed the Empire almost by himself (in "The Enemy Within" and "Warhammer Online").

>> No.32454739
File: 38 KB, 250x385, Tzeentch the Great Sorcerer.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
32454739

>>32454719

And the last one I found.

>> No.32454744

>>32454671
Wonder what would happen if one of those tiny followers touch him?

Also notavianenough/10 design.

>> No.32454766

>>32454440

Change is the true aspect of Chaos.

So technically Tzeentch is the ruler of all the Chaos Gods.

>> No.32454822

>>32454766
>Implying chaos has any true aspect
It's like you're trying to grasp at fire. It's violent, changing, destroying and dancing, all at the same time. 1 aspect alone does not well enough describe fire.

>> No.32454824
File: 17 KB, 379x374, 1394599834300.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
32454824

>>32454474
>worshiping the weakest, and the most "never gets shit done" Chaos God.

>> No.32455476 [DELETED] 

>>32454824

>Ate an entire pantheon of Gods
>Single handedly removed a galactic empire overnight
>Created the entire Eye of Terror (AKA: the only reason Chaos can do anything and the entire foundation for the events of 40k)

Slaanesh is literally the ONLY God that EVER got shit done.

>> No.32455491

>>32454824

>Ate an entire pantheon of Gods
>Single handedly removed a galactic empire overnight
>Created the entire Eye of Terror (AKA: the only reason Chaos can do anything and the entire foundation for the events of 40k)
>Never gets shit done

Slaanesh is literally the ONLY God that EVER got shit done.

>> No.32455533
File: 21 KB, 289x292, Mein Nigger.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
32455533

>>32455476

Yep. Can someone find that one quote about how all the gods are secretly afraid of him because their own obsession are slowly feeding Slaneesh. He may be the weakest now, but its only a matter of time.

>> No.32455553

>>32455491

He doesn't need to get shit done, everyone does it for him. Eventually all races will delve into excess, the Eldar are a prime example of this, hell most of the other races are dipping into excess. Tyrnids feast endlessly, Ork crave eternal war, DE openly sacrifice shit to him. Slaneesh knows he just has to sit back and enjoy the ride.

>> No.32455582
File: 226 KB, 391x526, Slaaneshi gifts.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
32455582

>>32455533

There really isn't a weakest/strongest Chaos God. It's entirely dependent on which corresponding emotion the warp happens to have the greatest influx of at that moment. I'm sure Slaanesh in the wake of eating countless Eldar and a bunch of Gods was the strongest seeing as he accomplished something the others never could. If Khorne was capable of beating Khaine, he probably wouldn't of had to skulk in like a little faggot after the fact and try to claim Slaanesh's hard work.

>> No.32455610

>>32454440
>Why is Tzeentch so much cooler

Mutations

>why doesn't everyone worship Tzeentch?

Mutations

>> No.32455624

>>32455553
Except it's not excess with the Tyranids OR the Orks, it's their nature. This doesn't feed Slaanesh in the slightest.

You have to understand it's wrong for it to work.

>> No.32455648

>>32454440
I dislike birds. That's pretty much it. It's probably the only thing that prevents Tzeentch to be my indisputable favourite chaos.

How are fucking chicken related to change, mutation, scheming and magic?

>> No.32455654

>>32455610
Have fun being a spawn. Tzeentch is the biggest asshole.

>> No.32455704
File: 180 KB, 643x829, Shattering of Khaine.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
32455704

>>32455582
There is.

Khorne is the strongest Chaos God on average.

> If Khorne was capable of beating Khaine, he probably wouldn't of had to skulk in like a little faggot after the fact and try to claim Slaanesh's hard work.

What the hell are you talking about? Are you mentioning this (picture related)?

If that was Slaanesh at his finest, then Khorne was capable of matched it.

>> No.32455728

>>32455648
Well they're often related to wisdom plus birds can see the world while soaring through the sky.

>> No.32455738

>>32455624
Actually, it's excess with the Orks. If Khorne feeds on their bloodlust and rage, then Slaanesh feeds on their boundless pleasure and enthusiasm when they fight.

>> No.32455758
File: 387 KB, 896x347, The Orgin of the Black Sword of Khorne.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
32455758

>>32455491
Lies.

Khorne gets shit done. Like beating up Slaanesh, manipulating Nurgle, and defeating Tzeentch. Proving his supremacy over all of them.

>> No.32455821

>>32454440
>mfw no qt3.14 tzeentch waifu

>> No.32455844
File: 142 KB, 800x1050, Just as planned.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
32455844

>>32455821
That can change

>> No.32455873

>>32454695
>Tfw Slaaneshi runner and a /d/eviant
Its a good feel

>> No.32455920
File: 178 KB, 623x730, Kharn the Kitten Lover.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
32455920

>>32455758
>Tzeench manipulates Khorne into attacking Slaanesh while feeding Slaanesh information about a supposedly amazing sword
>Slaanesh bribes Khorne with tales of the sword
>Tzeench causes Khorne to cede territory to Nurgle as part of their truce
>Tzeench offers token resistance to Khorne during his attack
>Tzeench manipulates Khorne into obtaining a sword that Tzeench obviously wants him to have
>Khorne swears to never let Tzeench's back door directly to him leave his side

Yeah, Khorne did a real bang up job there. So much better than the other ones.

>> No.32455953

Tzeentch is like that one delinquent kid who always manage to get his "friend" in trouble. Just because he's cool doesn't mean you want anything to do with him.

>> No.32455964

My friend, who's new to WH40k, asked me this yesterday.

What if Tzeentch is a good guy all along?

>> No.32455976
File: 369 KB, 390x630, Necrons vs Tzeentch.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
32455976

Tzeentch is racist against Necrons and is apparently autistic (You are doing it the wrong way arrrrrgh!).

That's a sorry display.

>> No.32455981

>>32455964
to Tzeench, good and evil are just concepts to be used to manipulate fools into doing what he wants them to do.

>> No.32455985

>>32455964

What if 40k lore was a clustefuck and you can decide for yourself who's the "good guy"?

What if Tzeentch is, like, the least likely candidate besides horrors like the Necrons and the Tyranids?

>> No.32456005
File: 57 KB, 516x708, Necron TP.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
32456005

>>32455985
>Horrors like Necrons

Hey, I resent that. The Necrons are just people wanting to find their way in the galaxy.

>> No.32456111
File: 14 KB, 450x307, No stopping me this time, Smee..jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
32456111

>>32456005
>Newcrons

>> No.32456125

>>32455758

>Fantasy fluff
>Even then it's more shit about Khorne accomplishing absolutely nothing

>> No.32456146

>>32455704

Which one just got done fighting an entire pantheon of Gods though? Khorne tired at the same time as the guy that just got done beating his Eldar equivalent and all his pals. What a puss.

>Khorne is the strongest Chaos God on average.

Is the source your ass? It's specifically stated that at different times they all eclipse one another.

>> No.32456154
File: 97 KB, 371x657, Khorne almighty.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
32456154

>>32456125
Same Warp.

The Ebon Blade exist in both setting. It's the weapon that ensures Khorne's supremacy. The equivalent of a nuke in the Warp.

>> No.32456164

>>32456154
>Same Warp.

That's a lie though.

>> No.32456173

>>32456111
infinite better than old n' bustedcrons

>> No.32456178
File: 378 KB, 397x461, Eternal rivalry.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
32456178

>>32456146
>Khorne tired at the same time as the guy that just got done beating his Eldar equivalent and all his pals.

If Slaanesh was empowered, it means that he was fighting Slaanesh at his best since the essence of the gods and mortals was within him empowering him at the time.

>Is the source your ass?

Every source book ever about Chaos. It always returns to Khorne being the strongest.

>> No.32456185

>>32456164
It ain't.

Same stories are told and same daemonic characters are abound.

>> No.32456191

>>32456178

>Nurgle's power can eclipse even that of his brothers in darkness

You just posted a source that corroborates MY point and flatly contradicts you. Well done.

>> No.32456199

>>32455582

Khorne never wanted to fucking beat Khaine as Khaine is just another warp-spawn of the same emotions that make him albeit weaker and vice-versa. He didn't intervene to beat Khaine, he inteverned to save Khain for crying out loud as both are gods of War and Violence.

Slaanesh himself was having a hard time beating Khaine so I don't fucking see what the fuck you are talking about.

>> No.32456201

>>32454440
BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD

>> No.32456212

>>32456191
It contradicts nothing. I said on average Khorne will be the strongest since war is all over the place. However, his brothers can gain ascendancy for time but return to him being the greatest of them all and Slaanesh being the weakest.

>> No.32456213

>>32456191
>Khorne is currently the strongest
>Tzeench closest rival
>under X condition nurgle can become strongest
this supports the
>Khorne is the strongest Chaos God on average.
statement

>> No.32456217

>>32454440
Tzeentch buttfucks his own followers worst compared to the 3.

>> No.32456219

>>32456199
>He didn't intervene to beat Khaine, he inteverned to save Khain

This is the opposite of what is stated. You just made this up. He specifically wanted to claim Khaine.

>Slaanesh himself was having a hard time beating Khaine

Fucking what?

>> No.32456226

What the single fuck is going on here ?

Khorne is the oldest of all Chaos Gods and is obviously the most powerfull all round, tho the other ones are not far behind. It depends on what field they're fighting and what's behind it.

If it's sheer violence and war Khorne will always wins. For crying out loud in engaging in open war with him they're making him more powerfull. It's like trying to beat a boxer while force feeding him steroids and adrenaline.

If it's manipulation and planning, that's Tzeentch

If it's sickness and crap related to that, Nurgle.

If it's excess it's Slaanesh.


You niggas like to act fucking retarded or what ? "My god is better than your god!" Fuck y'all, stop acting like you aren't fully aware how this shit works.

>> No.32456234

>>32456219

And where, in your particular autistic universe, does "claim" means "kill" ?


> This is my pencil
> I obviously want to kill it

>> No.32456238

>>32455624
>>32455738

The Orks feed Gork and Mork though, completely separate from Chaos.

>> No.32456244

>>32456226
I'm an expert on warpology and I have a phd in daemonology lesser human.
My knowledge spans the whole world. Books cover every wall in my basement and I haven't seen the light of day for years just to give you this information.
I successfully summoned a daemonette and bloodletter once. Now I have 1 arm and no testicles.
Respect my authority on this subject.

>> No.32456245

>>32456212

The source specifically states it ebbs and flows with others being stronger at different times. Literally the first thing it says. It then says "CURRENTLY" Khorne is mightiest and then goes on to say that sometimes it's Nurgle's turn and that Slaanesh and Tzeentch's power can bend the others to their will. So no, you're flat out contradicted because it shows that there is no "strongest on average" only the "vagaries of the Great Game".

>> No.32456249

>>32456219
>This is the opposite of what is stated. You just made this up. He specifically wanted to claim Khaine.

It states that he intervened because he was enraged that someone has trying to claim one of his own.

>Fucking what?

New Eldar versuion.

>> No.32456257

>>32456234

And where in your definition of "saved" does it include claiming someone elses power as your own? I guess Slaanesh was only "saving" the Eldar when he glutted on their fucking souls.

>> No.32456277

>>32456257
>>32456257

Khorne says Khaine is "one of his own". Why the fuck would he kill one of his own if he just interfered because Slaanesh was trying to do that.


Stop assuming shit you pretendious asshole. Nobody fucking cares for Slaanesh, go fap to Eldar porn and leave this discussion be

>> No.32456286

>>32456277
Yeah, why would a father kill his son?

>> No.32456312

>>32456238
Not at all.

Gork and Mork are part of Chaos just like The Emperor probably has become as well.

Each race has their imprint on the Warp and consequently Chaos.

Khorne himself has power over Orkz. The present example being of that Warbozz that took an Waagh into Khorne's realm so they could do ethernal battle.

Khrone slaughtered every single one of them but took pity and then granted the Orkz the hability to be brought to life back at the end of each day so they could wage ethernal war again in the next day. Exactly what they had wanted all along.

>> No.32456337

>>32456245
>you're flat out contradicted because it shows that there is no "strongest on average" only the "vagaries of the Great Game".

No.

Seeing as the state of the 40K universe is only eternal war, Khorne will remain the greatest of the gods unless certain circumstances like a galactic plague or galaxy wide orgy.

>> No.32456351

>>32456277

Slaanesh also refers to Eldar as her own. Being possessive =/= saving.

>> No.32456372

>>32456351
Remember that Nurgle warred with Slaanesh and saved Isha from him whom he calls now his wife.

>> No.32456373

>>32456337
>Seeing as the state of the 40K universe is only eternal war

Something which feeds Slaanesh as well seeing as it is an excessive thing by nature. Also, no what is way more prevalent than war? Death? Not only is that intrinsic to war, it's intrinsic to EVERYTHING. So I guess Nurgle is infinitely more powerful than Khorne then? Change is also a concept that includes and outreaches war. So really, war is the one thing that is in LEAST supply. Vast pockets of the galaxy will be free of war, but death, change and desire are far more universal.

>> No.32456382

>>32456372

Even in the Chaos book that is framed as a myth told by Lugganath. In the Eldar book the voice of god narrator quite clearly states that Khaine and Cegorach are the only remaining Eldar Gods.

>> No.32456383

Daily reminder that Khorne's part in the Fall hasn't show up since the Rogue Trader anywhere besides Thorpe's headcanon.

>> No.32456409

>>32456382
Clearly wrong and shows Eldar lore is flawed considering that we see her in events in the Daemon codexes.

>> No.32456421

>>32456373
Slaanesh is the weakest chaos god, man. Slaaneshi sometimes try to claim all actions fit under excess (same with Tzeentchians and change) but "excess" generally refers to "Excess of otherwise pleasurable activity taken to unhealthy levels," not "excessive amounts of war, paperwork, rocks, empty space, order, punching, etc."

One must also remember that the movement of souls into the Immaterium is a prime interest of the chaos gods.

And Nurgle isn't the Chaos God of Death, silly.

If I had to rate the chaos gods from strongest to weakest, it'd be Khorne first, because more deaths of sapient beings generally are thought to happen through war than decay (see: Orks, who are immortal until killed), Tzeentch second (Death is a form of change), Nurgle third (his model of death isn't quite as prevalent as on our world), and Slaanesh last (his portfolio is arguably the least destructive).

>> No.32456424

>>32456312
I personally lean towards there being a distinct difference between the chaos gods and the eldar and ork gods. The chaos gods are naturally forming byproducts of life, but the eldar and ork gods were articicially created by the old ones. Orks don't worship khorne, they don't belong to him. He's fond of them, i'm sure, they do nothing but wage war, but they don't do it in his name.
Of course, this is all fuzzy-wuzzy 40k canon so who knows. They've never defined exactly how chaos works or how the gods "feed" clearly enough to really say whether or not, or to what extent, orks feed khorne.

>> No.32456431
File: 344 KB, 757x267, The Seers fate.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
32456431

>>32456383
Gav canon is best canon.

>>32456409
Eldar lore a self admitted clusterwreck.

Not even once!

>> No.32456442

>>32456421

Nurgle is even more than death. He's entropy. That is actually a legit law that effects everything.

>> No.32456450

>>32456424

The Old ones created the Eldar and Orks, but not their Gods.

>> No.32456472

>>32456450
Actually, the Liber Chaotic shows a vision where the Old Ones teach the Eldar to use their magics. The Eldar used these magics to summon psychic constructs from the Warp to help them fight against the Necrons and C'tan. When the Old Ones started dying out and the Eldar lost their guidance, the Eldar lost control over the psychic constructs and they evolved into Warp Gods and then took control over the Eldar.

So the Old Ones, according to the vision, are indirectly responsible for the Eldar Gods.

>> No.32456486

>>32455704
Thing is, in the Eldar Codex, it actually states that Khaine was so difficult to beat that he drained Slaanesh's strength so much that Slaanesh couldn't eat him, and just forced him into the materium.

No mention of Khorne in that fight. Sorry Khornefags, Khorne had no role in that fight anymore, it got retconned.

>> No.32456490

>>32456472
> Liber Chaotic
> visions of a scholar from WHFB who doesn't really understand the context which were seen through the Warp
> any reliable

>> No.32456498

>>32456472

They only created Eldar gods in the sense they created Eldar. Eldar created their Gods the same way they created Slaanesh, by feeling the corresponding emotion until the warp reflected that. Nothing anywhere about Old Ones making Gork and Mork or any Eldar gods. He just made the races that would go on to have impacts on the warp.

>> No.32456508

>>32454822
Tzeentch's domain includes the whole of existence, both material and ideational. It's only his nature that makes him unsuited for ruling, though in a more abstract sense he rules in any case.

>> No.32456513

>>32456486
It mentions that he exhausted Slaanesh but was defeated and torn apart. Hey! Considering that the Eldar lore is lacking and flawed (Isha is dead!), I wouldn't take it as truth.

Anyways...

>No mention of Khorne in that fight. Sorry Khornefags, Khorne had no role in that fight anymore, it got retconned.

As long as Khorne is still the father of Khaine I am okay with it.

>> No.32456523

>>32456498
>Eldar created their Gods the same way they created Slaanesh

Not according to the Liber.

>>32456490
It does make sense, though.

>> No.32456529

>>32456005
DON'T LOSE YOUR WAYYYYY, MY SWEET 'CRONS!

>> No.32456530

>>32456450
I take it as implied that if they created the race they also created their gods, since their psychic potential, and therefore the resulting gods, are such a big part of what made the races effective as tools in the war in heaven. Of course, the origin of the gods is never clearly stated anywhere because fuzzy-wuzzy. That's the thing with discussing 40k canon, so much of it is deliberalty left unclear, with mere implications as opposed to stated truths.

>> No.32456536

>>32456523
>Not according to the Liber.

The Liber simply hints at the Gods being mental contructs of the Eldar, not the Old Ones, you are lying.

>> No.32456545

Tzeentch > Nurgle > Khorne > Slaanesh

>> No.32456553

>>32456536
Do you know what indirectly means? They taught the Eldar means to create their gods. So they are partly responsible.

Without the Old One guidance it would have taken a heck of a long time for the Eldar gods to develop naturally.

>> No.32456556

>>32456530

If there is one thing that defines The Old Ones it was them not predicting the warp and how creating psychic races would have ramifications in the warp. So no, they didn't make any warp Gods. They just made the first psychic races, which in turn led to powerful warp beings. Saying they made Gods is just misleading.

>> No.32456561
File: 8 KB, 249x202, 1382249273539.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
32456561

>>32456442
>chaos
>following any kind of law

>> No.32456565
File: 26 KB, 492x70, Khorne is ork powered.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
32456565

>>32456442
True. However, the Chaos Gods don't get direct power from their portfolio. They're still lords of the Immaterium in particular. They get power in the context of how their portfolio relates to souls being drawn into the Immaterium.

The most populous ensouled race is the orks, who only rarely die from stuff directly pertinent to Nurgle. On the other hand, they die all the time from war.

And of course, the books lay out who's strongest and who's in what order already, so...

>> No.32456566

>>32456553
>They taught the Eldar means to create their gods.

Ya see, you're doing that thing were you lie again Carnac.

>> No.32456570

>>32456561
Chaos is subordinate to nature. Order is the rejection of nature's dominance.

>> No.32456571

>>32456561
Khorne has 8 commandants craved on pillars of his fortress and wrote 8 brass bibles detailing his creed.

That's very lawful.

>> No.32456576

>>32456561
The law of entropy is that all order breaks down in the end.

>> No.32456591 [SPOILER] 
File: 279 KB, 560x476, 1401447164005.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
32456591

>>32456570
You mean the RULES OF NATURE?

>> No.32456594

>>32456561

>Doesn't understand that entropy means all closed systems of order are doomed to break down

Read a book nigger.

>> No.32456597
File: 2.51 MB, 1173x1715, War In Heaven (The story) 1.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
32456597

>>32456566
I don't lie.

In fact, the Liber says (picture related) that the Old Ones told the Eldar to reach out and create these beings.

Making them directly responsible!

>> No.32456612
File: 109 KB, 356x364, gangplank.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
32456612

>>32456591
分かりません

>> No.32456617
File: 481 KB, 500x321, 1382560889279.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
32456617

>>32456576
That's not what entropy means at all you idiot. Please read up on some actual physics before shitting up our board.

>> No.32456619

>>32456597

They encouraged them to reach into the warp. Nothing more. You interpreting that as "creating the Eldar gods" is deliberately dishonest. The Old Ones knew so little about the warp and what it could produce that it ended up backfiring on them and killing them. Enslavers are what happened when their psychic races started reaching into the warp and it fucking killed the Old Ones because they had no idea what they were doing.

>> No.32456622

>>32456591
A champion of khorne for sure. Despite being too skinny for khorne's taste.

>> No.32456627

>>32456571
>>32456561
Yeah, its important to remember that Warhammer chaos isn't D&D's poorly defined, nonsensical rejection of all laws, regulations, personal codes. Its its own (well, "gleefully stolen from Moorcock") brand of poorly defined nonsense, and in Moorcock's mythos, "Entropy" is often used as a synonym for "Chaos."

>Even though total victory by Law does mean an empty, totally barren and lifeless universe where nothing and no-one exists and would be as horrible as the Lords of Chaos winning...

>> No.32456628

>>32456622
Bloodletters are very skinny, man.

>> No.32456646

>>32456619
-They taught the Eldar magic/psychic powers
-They told the Eldar to summon beings from the Warp
-They used their powers to bind the Eldar psychic powers and guide the Eldar in controlling them

They had their hands in the process of creating the Eldar gods from beginning and almost to finish. That's directly from the page!

>> No.32456648

>>32456594
>thinks the warp
>a place of logicdefying magic that's fed by emotions and SOULS
>follows the laws of physics.
I've seen my share of stupid on 4chan but you are something else, Anon.

>> No.32456649

>>32456646
Eldar psychic constructs*

>> No.32456650

>>32456617

Entropy means something different in thermodynamics, data transmission and information theory, cosmology and social theories, dude. Even a cursory examination will let you realize they all mean essentially the same thing, the progression towards a state of maximum disorder.

>> No.32456651

>>32456498
>>32456536
I think the distinctly different nature of the eldar and ork gods does imply they weren't created the same way. The chaos gods aren't tied to a single species, why would the eldar have a separate war deity like kaine instead of just worshipping khorne? Why would orks create gork and mork instead of just worshipping khorne?
The racial gods are clearly something a little bit different than the chaos gods.
And if they are artificial, it makes sense that they are largely the creation of the old ones, since i don't see the eldar creating more gods now, which they probably would do if they knew how. And if the old ones created the eldar gods, it follows that they also created the ork gods.

>>32456556
The one thing that difines the old ones is that they lost the war in heaven. To the c'tan. That doesn't have anything to do with the warp. Are the warp gods even mentioned in the war in heaven time period? Seems to me they weren't even an issue back then.
It's clear, to me at least, that if the old ones deliberately constructed psychic races to wage war with, and those races subsequently created the warp constructs known as gods, it was as a direct result of the olds ones manipulations and most likel;y a deliberate part of their plans.
Anyway, my main point was just to say that the racial gods are different from the warp ones, coming about in a distincly different nature. They are not chaos gods. They were not created, and do not work, the same way.

>> No.32456653

>>32456648

Do you actually know what entropy is?

>> No.32456672

>>32456650
Yes but do you know how to formulate a counter argument?

>> No.32456686

>>32456646

It specifically says the "warp beings" evolved into Gods WITHOUT the Old ones. You are so deliberately dishonest.

>But the battle was long and the First Ones now were now few, and as their numbers dwindled, so too did their influence over their young creations. Without the wisdom and might of the First Ones to bind them, I saw the Eldar's warp-beings evolve from sentient weapons into living Gods - the first true Gods of the Immaterium.

You keep posting sources that completely contradict you. Not only did they not create the Gods, the Old Ones were the ones stopping them in the first place.

It's fucking moot anyway, because the entire source is from some Imperial dipshits "vision".

>> No.32456690

>>32456672

The guy >>32456617 had two points:

>I'm going to state an absolute that everyone knows to be false
>ur a faget

"Ur a faget" doesn't merit a response, and anyone can look it up in the dictionary to know the guy I was responding to was wrong.

>> No.32456695

>>32456686
>It specifically says the "warp beings" evolved into Gods WITHOUT the Old ones. You are so deliberately dishonest.

They eventually evolved into Warp Gods but who gave the Eldar the power and idea to create thm in the first place? The bloody Old Ones.


If the Old Ones didn't show them the way to create these beings, then there would have no Eldar gods.

>> No.32456697

>>32456226
>>32455491
>khorne is the oldest god

do you even praise malice bro?

>> No.32456709

>>32456697
Malice is a parasitic minor undivided god that feeds on the others.

>> No.32456714

>>32456619
>>32456686
Jeez, man, stop calling people who disagree with you liars. It's possible for people to have different interpretaions of the same things.
Why would someone even bother defending something they don't actually believe is true? Either you assume they are sincere, or you assume they are a troll, and if they're a troll, you should really stop repyling to them and giving them what they want.

>> No.32456728

>>32456695

>They eventually evolved into Warp Gods but who gave the Eldar the power and idea to create thm in the first place? The bloody Old Ones.

They specifically tried to 'BIND THEM'. They specifically were stopping Eldar from doing that. It was only once their cluelessness over warp beings got them killed in the form of the Enslavers that the Eldar evolved psychic abilities into Gods. The Old Ones fucking dying is literally framed as the catalyst for the Eldar being able to grow Gods.

>> No.32456732

>>32456628
But they are low tier. This guy chops a lot more on regular basis.

>> No.32456735

>>32456627
>Even though total victory by Law does mean an empty, totally barren and lifeless universe where nothing and no-one exists and would be as horrible as the Lords of Chaos winning...

Perfect Order isn't the sterile, totalitarian apocalypse so many claim it necessarily is.

Chaos is the natural state of things, and servants of Chaos sacrifice autonomy in order to become more powerful and precise instruments of nature.

Order is an imposed state, one that can only exist through choice. Servants of Order sacrifice their natures in order to have greater autonomy.

>> No.32456743

>>32456651
in 40k khorne is tied directly to humany , gengis khan being the first daemong prince.

It is said a lot in the fluff that khornite demons wear bronce axes cos that is the first weapon of the humanity.

Also it is said a lot that khorne started to rise in power during the middle ages of humanity.

>> No.32456749

>>32456732
One of the Bloodletters is Skulltaker the daemon whom is respected by the four Chaos Gods for his skill and prowess. The daemon dude who kills champions left and right and only loses to gods.

>> No.32456750

>>32456686
>It's fucking moot anyway, because the entire source is from some Imperial dipshits "vision".
>arguing about the validity of a source due to it's being from a biased fictional source.
I have news for you little buddy, pretty much all warhammer lore is from an unreliable narrator.
Only an autist wouldn't realise that.

>> No.32456765

>>32456442
How can so many people not understand Nurgle. Nurgle is not entropy. Nurgle is not actually even disease. These are facades Nurgle puts on to foster what he truly is, which is stubborn survival while being full of despair and hopelessness. This is obvious because despite all the "entropy" Nurgle, his daemons, and those he has "blessed" never truly decay, they actually become static despite their warped and diseased forms; they become the opposite of entropy, the opposite of death, instead cursed with horrid immortal forms.

Nurgle takes disease and decay because that way he can make his followers feel disgust and shame within themselves, and therefore they will turn to the one who "loves" them, while stubbornly holding on to life in the face of hopelessness and self-destruction. Nurgle is that abusive parent/spouse/relative who ruins your sense of worth and esteem and convinces you that no one else loves you.

And as for Tzeentch, who wants to follow a faggot who is constantly spilling spaghetti because he is so incompetent, but then claims he meant to do that? "No, guys, having my foot shot off and all my other schemes ruined was totally part of the plan!"

>> No.32456770

>>32456735
I'm just talking about Moorcockian Law vs Chaos. Its the eternal conflict that nobody sane wants to see won, and making sure no end can ever be reached is the only way to make sure there's a tomorrow. In it, Chaos is not exactly 'natural' either.

Rather like how in Warhammer, the destruction of the Immaterium would end all human life, same as if the Materium was destroyed.

What Chaos vs Order means outside of Elric is a subjective matter. For example, in D&D its been remarked that there isn't any kind of universally agreed upon, internally consistent definition of law vs chaos.

>> No.32456774

>>32456765
>Nurgle is not entropy

Tell it to the GW writing staff then, because they call him that quite often.

>> No.32456785

>>32456619
The enslavers didn't kill the old ones, the necrons did. And where does it say that the enslavers are a direct result of the psychic races reaching into the warp? Nowhere.
You're statement that the old ones didn't know what they were doing when it came to the warp just doesn't stand up to scrutiny, mate.
You have completely failed to provide any argument against the gods being deliberately created by the old ones.

>> No.32456801

>>32456785
>The enslavers didn't kill the old ones, the necrons did.

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Enslaver#fn_3

>You have completely failed to provide any argument against the gods being deliberately created by the old ones.

Once again:

>But the battle was long and the First Ones now were now few, and as their numbers dwindled, so too did their influence over their young creations. Without the wisdom and might of the First Ones to bind them, I saw the Eldar's warp-beings evolve from sentient weapons into living Gods - the first true Gods of the Immaterium.

>> No.32456811

>>32456801
Who wants a copy of the Liber Chaotica

>> No.32456821

>>32456750

Most fluff assumes the rhetorical standpoint of a word of god narrator. Only occasionally does it take subjective viewpoints.

>> No.32456824

>>32456743
But khorne isn't strictly a human god. Niether for that matter is slaanesh an eldar god. Anyone can worship a chaos god, but only orks worship gork and mork and only eldar worship the eldar gods.

>> No.32456835

>>32456728
> They specifically were stopping Eldar from doing that

Nowhere does it say that.

They were helping the Eldar control them.

>>32456801
>http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Enslaver#fn_3

Retconned. It was a combination of the Necrons and enslavers that did in the Old Ones at the final stage of the war.

>Once again:

>I watched as the first Ones encourage the younger race to reach further into the other realm, with their viberant minds and passionate create beings of power to fight the star gods

They told them to create the being who would evolve into gods and so they are responsible.

>> No.32456851

>>32456821
An unreliable word of god narrator.

>> No.32456854

>>32456851
Who happens to be Tzeentch.

>> No.32456869

>>32456801
You realise you're quoting as evidense something that you were earlier saying couldn't be used as evidense, right? Hypocrite.

>> No.32456882

>>32456835
>Nowhere does it say that.

>Without the wisdom and might of the First Ones to bind them, I saw the Eldar's warp-beings evolve from sentient weapons into living Gods - the first true Gods of the Immaterium.
>Bind

I can't force you to comprehend words.

> It was a combination of the Necrons and enslavers that did in the Old Ones at the final stage of the war.

Necrons and Ctan started the war, but Enslavers finished it. The point is that it was Enslavers that killed them. The very "warp beings" that Old Ones encouraged the psykers to use ended up killing them because they clearly didn't understand the consequences of psykers using the warp. And then according to Liber, once they were dead and no longer able to bind the Eldar, Eldar were able to make Gods.

>> No.32456889

>>32456869

You realize that the point was not only is the evidence (that's how you spell that word btw) being presented moot, it completely contradicted what he was trying to say anyway? Fuckwit.

>> No.32456907

>>32456882
>Eldar were able to make Gods.

The Khaine Asuryan, etc were already there but as psychic constructs. Psychic constructs whom the Old Ones were responsible for creating using the Eldar servants.

They wouldn't have evolved, if they were created in the first place.

>> No.32456922

>>32456889
It doesn't contradict what's aim trying to say.

Without the Old Ones guidance and orders, there wouldn't be psychic constructs, and without the psychic constructs the Eldar gods wouldn't have evolved from them.

Thus the Old Ones are responsible for creating the not only the Eldar but their gods as well.

>> No.32456945

>>32454440
Cause he's an idiot with the ultimate power of seeing the future.

At least khorne is the smart one, he knows a good lot about mechanics and engineering with nurgle, tzeentch is just some idiot who have ambitions of being smarter than he actually is, calling for change so that nobody will ever think that his stupid shit is actually just that, dumb fucking shit.

>> No.32456995

>>32456005
Well half of them anyway, the other rest stayed oldcrons.

But nobody fucking cared to pick up on that noooo.

>> No.32457025

Check the e-mail tag. Liber Chaotica Doenload link.

>> No.32457095

>>32454695

>the only Khorne player I know is a crazy as fuck but still boisterous and friendly pit fighter
>He also plays orks

>> No.32457206

>>32454695
>Nurgle
>Talented sculptor

Mashing green stuff on every smooth surface counts as good craftsmanship now?

And don't get me started on the painting, drybrushing muted greens and slopping water effects everywhere gets old real fast.

>> No.32457371

>>32456869
You realise that pointing out typos is both petty and not actually a counter argument. Also, there is no need for name calling. You seem upset. I think somebody needs a timeout so they can calm down. Remember, deep breaths anon, deep breaths.

Oh, and you're still a hypocrite, hypocrite.

>> No.32457494

>>32456882
The old ones taught the eldar to create and control warp constructs, which without the guidance of the old ones the eldar lost control of and began worshipping as gods.
The eldar gods started out as warp constructs created by the old ones. Ergo, the old ones created the eldar gods.
This is a very simple concept. I think it is you who is failing to comprehend words here.

Also, the enslaver plague happened because the war went on so long that the warp became unstable, not because the old ones didn't know what they were doing. And just because they might have failed to see that coming in no way proves they didn't still create the constructs that became the eldar gods, which they clearly did.
Additionally, the liber states that the constructs became gods when the old ones lost their influence over the eldar, not when they were dead. They became gods before the enslaver plague, before the end of the war in heaven.

>> No.32458635

Hey, what is nurgles symbolic animal? Just bloated fat guy?

>> No.32459050

>>32454440
Because Slaanesh exists.
>>32454459
Also this.

Honestly each God draws their own kind of people
Tzeentch draws those who desire power and knowledge. Eg. politicians and researchers.
Slaanesh draws those who desire more basic pleasures. Eg. NEETs, college frats, celebrities.
Nurgle draws those who are broken and dead inside. Eg. Individuals who have lost loved ones, the working poor who have given up hope of advancing
Khorne draws those who hold anger either at something specific, or the universe as a whole. Eg. Soldiers who have become cynical regarding their job, and the working poor who become angry rather than despair about their situation.

Tzeentch and Slaanesh are much more alluring to the upper classes because they have little reason to despair or be angry, while the lower classes are more drawn to Nurgle and Khorne as they lack the time and money to focus on the pursuit of knowledge, power, or basic pleasures. The latter is simply a matter of whether you give up at the situation of the world (in which case Nurgle is your god) or become angry at the world (in which case Khorne is your god).

>> No.32459148

>>32454719
>fuck your grass, nurgle!
>this is the last time you make my tiny invisible bicycle rust

>> No.32459175
File: 78 KB, 500x500, 1381239208387.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
32459175

I'd rather remain in senseless anger

>> No.32461011

>>32454440
I really like Chaos, but only undivided.
Every chaos god is just so.... UGH!
Khorne is now the wannabe casual god for everyone, nearly used in every fucking videogame, yeah yeah, Blood for the Bloodmud and so on.
And who wants to be a fat, rotting, maggot infested corpse? No one, thats why you arent cool Nurgle, even so I really like Plaguemarines.
And while Im on 4chan I dont quite think someone wants to be a tranny, yet worship the tranny and ecstasy god Slaanesh.
Tzeentch ... well it doesnt matter what happens, everything is according to the plan, even the lil Novice scout stepping his toe on a stone shaped like the Emporer and it doesnt matter if he sets off a warp storm or some shit with it annihilating a whole system or so.

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