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32161522 No.32161522 [DELETED]  [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

Would you guys say this is heresy?

>> No.32161561

>>32161522
The worst kind of heresy.
Inquisitor Torquemada Coteaz summoning demons? I have no flammer big enough for it.

>> No.32161566

>>32161522
You know it is. Loyalist fighting with Chaos?

>> No.32161583

>Trafficking with Daemons
Thats some textbook heresy son, get yourself checked

>> No.32161605
File: 68 KB, 350x350, HeresyStamp.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
32161605

Unless you're xanthite...

>> No.32161638
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32161638

>Coteaz knows that the boon he seeks could easily be granted by a Daemon, should he summon and bind it according to the proper rituals. Part of him longs to embrace this small evil, that it may firm up the foundations of his righteous work. It is a temptation that grows stronger with every passing day, but one that Coteaz has stalwartly resisted, at least so far...

BWAHAHAHA

>> No.32161667
File: 45 KB, 739x643, that's heresy.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
32161667

It's always heresy.

>> No.32161692
File: 176 KB, 692x757, Lichtenstein.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
32161692

>>32161566
And this is where I have a problem, I can understand where Jervis is coming from when he talked about Unbound armies but even Adam Troke made Dark Angels summon a greater daemon.
Jervis basically talked about giving players the freedom of building a fluff army but then someone might come along and take 3 baneblades. An army of Heldrakes. For fuck sakes the amount of bullshit is going through the stratosphere!

take for instance Lichtenstein, would you make a Inquisition warband of him for fluff reasons?
Would that be accepted?

>> No.32161702

>>32161638
Coteaz will end up going the Quixos/Eisenhorn route, I know it.

>> No.32161744
File: 442 KB, 843x1127, thrax.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
32161744

>>32161702
>Coteaz will end up going the Thrax route, I know it.

FTFY

>> No.32161768

The rulebook and other bits have just gone up for pre-order, by the way.

>> No.32161784

>>32161702
Coteaz has gone much longer without anything happening, so he's probably good. But a sinister seed of doubt lingers in his heart, trapped behind its own defenses

>> No.32161807

>>32161768
YOU MAGNIFICENT BASTARD I COULD KISS YOU!

>> No.32161846

>>32161692
>Adam Troke made Dark Angels summon a greater daemon.
Yes, as a playtesting item.
Context is still important. You, nor anyone else, knows who actually has access to such summonings.

>> No.32161906
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32161906

>>32161846
He made Ezekiel sacrifice himself for a greater daemon to be summoned. And he may do it multiple times even after the book comes out.
http://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/What's-New-Today-from-the-White-Dwarf-Team/2014/05/07/The-power-of-the-Warp

>> No.32161909

>>32161768
My LGS put it up for pre-order about a week ago. They've also arranged a somewhat clever incentive for people to not just run home and start scanning the damn thin for the internet: A Day 1 Tournament.

>> No.32161927

>>32161909
Right before every goober starts pulling out freshly minted netlists, too. Smart.

>> No.32161988

>>32161909

My preferred online WH40k retailer also is doing an in-shop day 1 tournament. You're given two hours to read the rules, draft a list, then pray to the gods that you were smarter than your opponents.

And we all know the thing is going to get scanned inside of 24 hours anyway.

>> No.32161989
File: 1.14 MB, 260x146, Chaplain finds Heresy.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
32161989

>> No.32162010

>>32161909
*Thing
>>32161927
Yeah. They're not saying that, but everyone knows that's why they're doing it. Gives you a taste of 40k as it was when you first got into it: Nobody knows the rules all that well, everything is fresh and new, there isn't that one guy with the super netlist you have to watch out for, and it's just fun again. Also, only 500 points, so you can't do TOO much.

>> No.32162562

>>32161988
> online retailer
> in-shop tournament
wut

>> No.32162706

>>32162562

It's a shop that has a physical storefront but also ships internationally and you order through their online store.

Sorry for being vague.

>> No.32162949

So...has GW just stopped giving a shit about the lore?

>> No.32162975

>>32162706
Oh I get it now.

>> No.32163203

>>32162949
Of course, psykers never summoned daemons before this.

>> No.32163250

>>32163203

coteaz and dark angels didnt

>> No.32163274

>>32163250
Coteaz was close to doing it, and half of the Dark Angels fell to Chaos.
Neither of those instances are likely to be considered canon.

>> No.32163335

>>32161692
...Wait, so Unbound does allow you to mix units from different armies?

...Does this mean my army of Slaaneshi Cultist fighting for the Imperium can actually be fielded?

>> No.32163377

>>32163335
You can ally Come the Apocalypse now. So sure!

>> No.32163430

>>32163377
Great, now I just need to find Female Space Marine Models...

...And Guardswomen models...

...And wholly construct my home-brewed Daemonette units from scratch...

...Can I Daemonically possess a Leman Russ to give it the Split Fire Special Rule?

>> No.32163631

>>32163430
I dunno about femmarines, but femguard bits can be found at Victoria Miniatures. They're pretty sculpts, too - my friend uses them to make praetorians.

>> No.32163727

>>32163631
Yeah, I was more alluding to how, even though I now CAN field my dream army, I wouldn't be able to do all the work necessary to make it...
DAMN CREATIVITY OUTSTRIPPING MY MEAGER ABILITY TO ACTUALLY MAKE THINGS A REALITY!!!

>> No.32163758

>>32163727
> DAMN CREATIVITY OUTSTRIPPING MY MEAGER ABILITY TO ACTUALLY MAKE THINGS A REALITY!!!

I hear dat bro. I always wanted to konvert a whole Ork army using AoBR - cut the Marine heads out of Termies and put Grot heads on there for meganobz, do the same thing with the regular marines for 'ard boyz, and so on.

>> No.32163914

>>32163250

Didn't. Doesn't mean they couldn't. Or possibly wouldn't.

You're supposed to be forging a narrative with each game... if you as the player choose to have them fall to the dark powers, don't really see how it's GW's fault for giving you the ability. So they finally slipped up one day and dabbled with darkness in a moment of weakness... and it's all on YOU.

That'd be like bitching at Bethesda for creating the Dark Brotherhood missions. You're never forced to murder someone, but if you do, there's a route for it.

>> No.32163937

>>32162949

See

>>32163914

>> No.32164056

>>32163914
So it's OG Butcher all over again?

>"Yeah, hi, I noticed the Butcher can take normal armour, so does this mean it can also take magical armour?"
>"Uh, well, technically yeah, but, like, it's bit of a dick move, so unless you want to be a total dick and fuck everything up, how about you don't do it?"

Just roll the blame onto the player.

>> No.32164141

>>32164056
What do you mean blame? How is giving psykers psychic powers - and the temptation to use them - anything other than completely within the theme of both the 40k universe and the new design philosophy of "use whatever the fuck you want"? The ruinous powers tempt and corrupt. It's what they do.

This is not a rules exploit. It's not a design oversight. It's a realization of something that's always been around in-universe.

>> No.32164164

>>32164056
I've never played against OK, How does giving armor to a caster that can take armor anything other than rules as written and intended?

>> No.32164297

>>32164141
>"don't really see how it's GW's fault for giving you the ability"
>"it's all on YOU"

Yeah, I have no idea where I got that blame part.

>This is not a rules exploit. It's not a design oversight.

Then why do we even need any rules and limits? I bet you there's more shit going down in the universe than loyalist psykers willingly summoning daemons (because as we all know, it's easy as snapping your fingers, it's not like traitors and radical loyalist don't scourge the earth for heretical texts that allow them to summon and control daemons). Getting mind-fucked and unleashing daemons through your ass is not the same as willingly summoning them into existence. As a mishap result it would fly without any problems.

>> No.32164345

>>32164164
Mages can't take magical armour, unless they can take regular armour. OK Butcher can take one piece of regular armour, meaning they can also take magical armour.

In the FAQ the designers make a long speech about how it was never intended to work that way and it was an oversight, but they still allowed it, while saying you really shouldn't because it's sort of going against the whole idea.

Couldn't just say "no, you can't, it was just an oversight". Nope, can't step on the player's freedumz, even if it's a mistake, but lets just make you feel bad for following the rules.

>> No.32164361
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32164361

>>32161522

>> No.32164377

>>32164297
>Then why do we even need any rules and limits?

You don't. The rules exist to sell fiddly little plastic mans. That's 100% of what GW cares about. You'll need to use their hack job of a ruleset, though, if you want to play anyone who isn't a good friend.

>> No.32164416

>>32164297
> I have no idea where I got that blame part.
The question is, why use the word "blame"? Blame implies that something bad has been done. What's bad about "you can tamper with dark powers - but at what price?" There's no need to use the word blame because summoning daemons is not a bad thing (except, you know, in-universe).

> that next paragraph
We don't actually KNOW anything about how daemonology works. We know that psykers can summon daemons up to and including bloodthirsters, but how? Maybe you can't summon Khornate daemons until your psyker has achieved a requisite number of kills. Maybe you can only summon a daemon if you're down by a certain number of points. WE DON'T KNOW. But we DO know that the dark powers whisper to the warp-sensitive, offering them grim powers and dark secrets, especially in their time of need. The right malediction, spoken at the right time, can and has canonically summoned daemons without the complex fuckery. Shit, there's a story earlier in this thread where a dude accidentally the warp by touching a pattern inscribed on a desk.

>> No.32164451

>>32164377
So GW doesn't give two shits, but everything they write is carefully thought out and intentionally made so, not some half-assed scribble they just squeezed out into the market to milk people for extra coin?

>> No.32164460

>>32164164
The only armor a Butcher can take normally is just a shield, but with the way the rules are written, this mean he can take full suits of magical armor. Writing the rules, a 6+ save for the wizard isn't bad, since Ogre wizards are large and expensive, but they weren't thinking of the possibility of throwing a 2+ on a non-Chaos Warrior wizard.

Personally, I don't think its a dick move. Most people won't be taking armor on any wizards that're not a Slaughtermaster.

>> No.32164468

>>32162949
I think my fav part about malefic psyker abilities is exposing all the hypocrites who think XYZ loyalist is immune to the seductive nature of Kay-oss.

>> No.32164575

>>32164451
Nice strawman.

>> No.32164635

>>32164416
>why use the word "blame"?

Why use the word "fault" and "it's on you"? If there's a fault, then there's someone to blame for it.

>but at what price?

3 warp charges.

>because summoning daemons is not a bad thing

So where the "price" you're paying for this?

I mean, why can't I have conscript platoons armed with nothing plasma guns? Sure, in the game universe it would be a huge waste of resources and probably cripple the rest of the war effort, but it's my choice to field 50 plasma guns in one unit. I should be the one making the decision, not some designer who things they know better.

>We don't actually KNOW anything about how daemonology works.

There was a scan of the Daemonology page. Primaris power costs 3 warp charges and lets you summon 10 Troop daemons, 5 hounds/seekers, 3 nurgling swarms, etc. onto the board.

As I remember, somebody counted that a psyker heavy Tzeentch army can summon around 1000pts. worth of daemons onto the board every turn.

>> No.32164637
File: 121 KB, 600x600, fuklaw heresy.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
32164637

>>32161522
Overwhelmingly

>> No.32164712

>>32163250
>dark angels didnt

What yes we did you stupi-

Yes, you are quite right citizen, summoning Daemons is an act of wickedness only a heretic would do. All glory to the false emperor.

>> No.32164739

>>32164575
>"there's no exploits nor oversight in the rules, it's all as intended"
>"rules are just to sell plastic men, what else do you expect, good rules?"

How else am I suppose to read that?

>> No.32164742

>>32164635

>So where the "price" you're paying for this?

You're probably gonna get Peril'd into oblivion and the chance of success isn't great. Get 3 results of 4+ on a roll of 4d6.


>As I remember, somebody counted that a psyker heavy Tzeentch army can summon around 1000pts. worth of daemons onto the board every turn.

Got any more details?

>> No.32164760

>>32164739
You were conversing with two different people, with completely different stances. One person saying the rules matter, one person saying they don't.

>> No.32164787

>>32164712
I almost peed myself at the end of that sentence

>> No.32164798

>>32164635
> Why use the word "fault" and "it's on you"? If there's a fault, then there's someone to blame for it.
Fault and it's on you seemed, from the context of the post, to be referring to the fluff aspects since there was also mention of "forging narratives."

> 3 warp charges.
And Wounds, and the chance of Perils with no reward whatsoever, if the sneak peeks are any indication. You're acting like summoning daemons is somehow a guaranteed, no-drawback process.

> So where the "price" you're paying for this?
Risk of danger to your psyker. Money. Take your pick.

> I should be the one making the decision, not some designer who things they know better.
But that's not what the initial point was at all. The point is, given the parameters the designers have set, it's your choice which options to utilize and which to set aside. If they said "take a 50-conscript squad with plasmas if you want," then it would absolutely be on you whether or not you wanted 50 plasma conscripts.

> There was a scan of the Daemonology page. Primaris power costs 3 warp charges and lets you summon 10 Troop daemons, 5 hounds/seekers, 3 nurgling swarms, etc. onto the board.
Was there a scan of the whole psychic powers section? No? Then we don't know the full extent of the rules.

> As I remember, somebody counted that a psyker heavy Tzeentch army can summon around 1000pts. worth of daemons onto the board every turn.
Assuming no limitations on summoning, no limitations on demonology, no perils of the warp, unlimited finances, no limitations on warp charge, and a player who's an utter cunt, yeah.

>> No.32164836

>>32164742
>Get 3 results of 4+ on a roll of 4d6.

Why only 4D6?

>> No.32164860

>>32161522

Guys GUYS fuck all the daemon whining

They put a haemonculus on the new rulebook cover

>> No.32164968

>>32164860
They sure did.
http://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Warhammer-40-000-EN-A

>> No.32164994

>>32164416
Actually, malefic demonology has already been spoiled. It's just like any other psychic power, though the summons tend to need a rank 3 psyker to have a reliable chance of them happening. And no, you can summon a bloodthirster your first turn and drown the enemy in more daemons each time your psychic phase comes around.

>> No.32165023
File: 10 KB, 480x216, Obi-Wan-2.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
32165023

>>32161522
You were suppose to destroy Chaos, not join them!

>> No.32165071

>>32164798
>You're acting like summoning daemons is somehow a guaranteed, no-drawback process.

If you know the probabilities, you can easily increase your chances and minimize any drawback. It's not like the nova reactor over-charging balanced out the riptide or the chance of peril or failing the test made divination not a good option.

>Assuming no limitations on summoning

Why wouldn't that be mentioned under the discipline itself?

>no limitations on demonology

So are you saying Tzeentch daemons can't summon shit while loyalist psykers can?

>no perils of the warp

The calculation was on the averages, so perils would have been calculated into the chances. Sure, you can roll worse, but you can also roll better as well.

>no limitations on warp charge

You mean their use or how many you can have total? The word was at the time that you could use 1 charge over the psyker's level. The horrors were there just to generate charges, the summoning was left for the bigger dudes.

>unlimited finances
>a player who's an utter cunt

It's not like these have never been an issue in 40k ever.

>> No.32165076

>>32164994
The POWER LIST has been spoiled. The RULES have not. So, again, WE DO NOT FUCKING KNOW. We don't know what models have access to Daemonology, malefic or sanctic. We don't know what Perils does. We don't know whether there's a dice cap on casting based on mastery level. WE KNOW FUCKING NOTHING.

So until we have a goddamn book, we have no goddamn clue what Daemonology means for the game.

>> No.32165088
File: 77 KB, 920x950, 60040199041_40kStandardEdition06.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
32165088

>>32164860
Kind of surprised me when I saw that, since I'd have expected them to use one of the more iconic factions. Especially when the other covers are Space Marines and Bad Space Marines.

Still, DEldar best Eldar, covens best DEldar.

>> No.32165122

>>32165076
Get a load of this fag, it's like he's never played Fantasy.

>> No.32165127
File: 122 KB, 1600x1200, 1393628350454.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
32165127

>>32165023
YOU WERE THE CHOSEN ONE BROTHER!

>> No.32165221

>>32165071
> If you know the probabilities, you can easily increase your chances and minimize any drawback.

Can you? Seems to me like chances are 50% chance for a success on each die. Perils are now more common and allegedly more dangerous, because psyker powers (especially ML3 powers) are no longer successful on 10 rolls out of 12.

> Why wouldn't that be mentioned under the discipline itself?
I don't know. But I'm not ready to assume it just because I've seen one page of the book.

> So are you saying Tzeentch daemons can't summon shit while loyalist psykers can?
I'm saying you don't know who can and cannot select what powers any more than I do. I'm saying we don't know what lists are available for what casters. I'm saying we don't know dick.

> The calculation was on the averages, so perils would have been calculated into the chances. Sure, you can roll worse, but you can also roll better as well.
Based on the averages but without knowing anything about the new perils table, or the potential mayhem of rolling 3, 4, or 6 ones in a single cast. So no, they do not have this math on lock.

> The horrors were there just to generate charges, the summoning was left for the bigger dudes.
We don't know if there's a max on warp charge per turn. Even money says there will be. And when has it ever been possible to cast the same power more than once with a single model in a single turn?

> It's not like these have never been an issue in 40k ever.
So, as always, don't play tournaments. You always have the right to not play with someone who brings a shoebox full of horrors. And it's not a problem with the rules. It's a problem with faggots. Faggots will powergame even with incredibly restrictive rules. So rather than punishing all the players who want to have fun, ten-dreadnought lists, they've opened up the rules to more possibilities for people who don't powergame. For the people who do, have fun at Adepticon being a total nigger. I'll be over here. Having a good time.

>> No.32165235

>>32161522
>inquistors openly summoning up deamons

ha, i told you loyalists they weren't so loyal but no, i gotta be burned at the stake for being a vocal heretic. now ima deamon laughing at this

>> No.32165255

>>32165122
I do play fantasy. That's why I think a lot of this "zomg sykerz" faggotry is vastly overblown. Even with game-breaking spells, there are limits to magic, and a l4 wizard will not win you the game.

>> No.32165334

>>32165076
>>32165221
...most of those things have been spoiled in the last few days. Have you been in many of these threads?

Things we know:
1) All armies except Tyranids get access to Daemonology. Grey Knights and Dark Angels have been specifically called out on their access to Malefic Daemonology.

2) Perils is a roll on a d6 chart that "range from the psyker being sucked into the warp to mind shattering Emypic Feedback or a powerful Warp Surge". You get Perils by rolling 2 or more 6's when manifesting a power.

3) Each pysker can use their Mastery Level +1 dice of Warp Charge per turn. So a Level 3 psyker can use up to 4 dice.

4) You manifest powers by getting a number of 4+ dice equal to the Warp Charge cost of the power. Having an Affinity reduces that to 3+ (Daemons for Daemonolgy etc).

5) You may manifest as many Witchfires as you like, and they may target anything you like. You even get to fire guns afterwards in the shooting phase.

There are other, less certain things, but these are what we know FOR CERTAIN.

>> No.32165358

>>32165088

Yeah, this most certainly adds credibility to the rumors of the new DE haemonculi coven release coming up, though I doubt they'll get an updated codex

Rumors
>plastic wrack kit with more upgrades
>grotesque kit with 3 of them in 1 box with various upgrades
>plastic new haemonculus model
>an entirely new model, something even bigger than a grotesque

All I can hope is that during 5th and 6th DE sold much much better than expected and they'll get some more hopefully good attention from GW

>> No.32165366

>>32165255
No, a single Level 4 wizard/psyker/fancy hat will not win you the game. But four Level 3 Heralds of Tzeentch and as many Horrors as you can afford will literally drown the enemy in daemons.

>> No.32165411

>>32165366

To counter that, there will be new special rules for anti-psyker units. DE have psychic dampeners, Khornate units naturally hate Psykers etc. A lot of specific anti-psyker units will improve your chances of DTW

>> No.32165415

>>32165358
You're forgetting mandrakes rules. Actually why are they said to be bad?

>> No.32165427

>>32164836
You're restricted in how many dice you can assign to each psyker, and of course, the more dice, the more perils.

>>32165071
It specifically says they're a Conjuration which means they may have special rules.

>> No.32165429

>>32165334
So casting 3 lvl spell is basically suicide.
Looks unstable as fuck.

>> No.32165446

>>32165088
They seem plenty iconic to me.

>> No.32165475

>>32165334
First of all, it's 2 or more 6es or 1s on perils.
Second of all, that little text blurb about Perils? That's not rules. That's an advertising blurb. But it sounds pretty fucking nasty, and chucking 4 dice per turn at a bunch of shit each turn seems like a pretty good way to get fucked.
Third of all, manifesting "as many witchfires as you like", without a rules page, might mean any number of things. Can I just manifest the same witchfire eight times from the same model? And if so, what on God's green earth or Satan's red hell does that have to do with summoning powers?

>> No.32165486

>>32165411
And if I don't play DE or Kaos?

>> No.32165509

>>32165366
Assuming they don't Perils, and assuming Perils doesn't make it harder for your other psykers to cast, and...

>> No.32165511

>>32165221
>Can you?

You seriously saying you've never calculated the odds of, say, destroying a vehicle with certain units or weapons?

>I'm saying we don't know what lists are available for what casters.

Then why are people defending the idea of loyalists getting to summon daemons like it was a given fact? Why don't you got shit on them for a change?

>when has it ever been possible to cast the same power more than once with a single model in a single turn?

Who even suggested that?

>So, as always, don't play tournaments.

Right, because that's were all the dickish players with money are.

>it's not a problem with the rules. It's a problem with faggots.

And once again the blame train stops at station Player.

So you're basically saying "don't be a dick, have fun, but if your fun isn't my fun, fuck off"? What if some dude makes a fun list he just whipped up without even thinking about it, and it turned out to be super OP? So you expect all the players to know the meta of all the armies and units by hart, and then navigate and make a balanced, non-dick army, while having all the freedom and fun they can have?

How about GW makes well rounded and balanced rules that diminishes the gap between a total dick and a total noob to minimum? Nah, fuck that, because Mr. "Muh Freedumz" needs to have his freedumz with his friends, ignoring the fact that if you're truly playing in a fun filled friendly environment, you wouldn't need GW to give you permission to have fun, friendly games. I've known plenty of people who've managed to try out custom rules or field "illegal" armies in friendly games without any need for an "ok" from GW.

You really think removing limits is gonna stop people from fucking with the rules? Sure, you can try to be the bastion of fun, but it doesn't need many "lets throw some more X and Y into this army to really get it going" in local player base for even the most hardcore fun players start rethinking their position and get tired of losing.

>> No.32165572
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32165572

>>32165475
We DID get a rules page for Witchfires. It was in the Jeremy Jarvis video. Where did you think half of this stuff was coming from? Here, take a look.

>> No.32165660

>>32165511
So far we have absolutely no evidence that daemonology will outpace divination. Worst case scenario, it will likely become on par with divination -- oh fucking well.

>> No.32165672

>>32165511
> You seriously saying you've never calculated the odds of, say, destroying a vehicle with certain units or weapons?
I'm saying that if you're bullheadedly set on throwing 4 dice a turn at a summon, you cannot, in point of fact, mitigate those odds in any way.

> Why don't you got shit on them for a change?
Because they're not pissing and moaning about the falling sky?

> Who even suggested that?
Every single faggot who's ever talked about camping charge dice and summoning a thousand points of tzeentch per turn is suggesting it by >implication.

> Right, because that's were all the dickish players with money are.
No, but it's the only place where you actually have to play those players. Anywhere else you can just tell them to go find another game, or you can go find another game yourself.

> So you're basically saying "don't be a dick, have fun, but if your fun isn't my fun, fuck off"?
No, I'm saying "don't be a dick, have fun, but if your fun isn't my fun, we'd both have more fun playing someone else." That last part is the key difference.

> What if some dude makes a fun list he just whipped up without even thinking about it, and it turned out to be super OP?
That very rarely happens. But if I genuinely believed the guy was just in it for the enjoymenyt, I'd still play him. It's not about winning. It's about not playing with niggers who have nothing better to do than bust out a calculator and figure out how many horrors they can possibly summon over the course of a game, and buying that many "just in case."

> So you expect all the players to know the meta of all the armies and units by hart, and then navigate and make a balanced, non-dick army, while having all the freedom and fun they can have?
Nope. I just expect them to not make a faggot army on purpose for the sheer joy of being a faggot.

>> No.32165686
File: 104 KB, 309x497, 1390759775522.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
32165686

That is heresy.

Plain and simple.

>> No.32165699

>>32165334
The WD also says that a summoned greater daemon can immideatly start summoning more shit himself, assuming there are still enough dice around (the summoned daemon obviously doesn't contribute to the pool that turn), which could lead to some kind of herald cascade.

>> No.32165797

>>32165511
> How about GW makes well rounded and balanced rules that diminishes the gap between a total dick and a total noob to minimum?
Here's how it works:
1) Lots of varied options
2) Limited rules sploitz
Choose one. I'd rather have the options.

> you wouldn't need GW to give you permission to have fun, friendly games.
And in my home, I don't. GW's rules are so that everyone in a GW store or a GW event has a consistent ruleset to go by, because while I might houserule among friends, I wouldn't dream of taking "pistols use their profile in CC" or "fuck you, IG sergeants can totally take 2 pistols" into my local store with a bunch of people who haven't agreed on those rules.

> I've known plenty of people who've managed to try out custom rules or field "illegal" armies in friendly games without any need for an "ok" from GW.
Again, at home? That's awesome. In a game store? You're gonna need an okay with your player. And between two strangers, it's better not to muck with houserules at all.

> You really think removing limits is gonna stop people from fucking with the rules?
Nope. But I think people who fuck with the rules are gonna fuck with the rules no matter what, and I think designing the rules to counter those faggots ends up needlessly punishing the rest of us.

> it doesn't need many "lets throw some more X and Y into this army to really get it going" in local player base for even the most hardcore fun players start rethinking their position and get tired of losing.
SO DON'T PLAY WITH THOSE ASSHOLES.

Seriously. IT's not that fucking hard.

>> No.32165821

>>32165572
Which still leaves the question: What the fuck does witchfire have to do with summoning abuse?

>> No.32165876

>>32161522
Of course it is Heresy. The problem here is you all seem to think that it doesn't happen? Trusted and loyal soldiers become untrusted and disloyal soldiers ALL the time in 40K.
The entire centre of 40K fluff is based on the most trusted and loyal soldier of all time turning rogue and performing the greatest show of Heresy in the entire history of the Imperium.
People were bitching about a Chief Librarian of the Dark Angels being possessed by a Bloodthirster in WD, yet they forget that half of that Legion were already traitors.
Many Chapters (even the poster boys themselves, Ultramarines) show up in the ranks of Huron's Red Corsairs. Even more regularly in the current years of the fluff.
Anyone can fall to Chaos. Just because a Grey Knight hasn't already, doesn't mean on WON'T eventually. Or, rather, CAN'T.
It's even better when a high ranking -=][=- Inquisitor -=][=- falls. It's more dramatic.
Anyone that can be touched by the Warp can.
Open your minds and let the imagination of Chaos float through you. For a mind closed up is like a parachute; useless.

>> No.32165877

>>32165415

They essentially have no saves until they kill something but they're T3 and they aren't especially good at killing things. You basically throw them at things and they die. They can't even shoot, if I recall correctly. It's been a while since I read their rules but it was essentially NOPE, USELESS

I still have a few because they look awesome

>> No.32165879

>>32165672
>Because they're not pissing and moaning about the falling sky?

Why would they, they get to summon daemons out the butt.

>Every single faggot

You sure you weren't just projecting on what they said?

>> No.32165924
File: 96 KB, 800x478, braveheart2.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
32165924

>>32165876
FREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEDDDDOOOOOOOOMMMMMM!!!

>> No.32165940

GW site just been updated

>> No.32165981

>>32165486
Jumpin' in here. You know, it might be more useful to tell us what army you DO play instead of eliminating 2.
If you had told us what you DO play we could tell you what you want to know.
Next time, trying thinking instead of trying to be witty.

>> No.32166029

>>32165797
>I'd rather have the options.

So would every asshole as well.

>SO DON'T PLAY WITH THOSE ASSHOLES.
>Seriously. IT's not that fucking hard.

Seriously? Come here, into this little town with 1 LGS, and tell me that. Some people just don't have the choice. The local meta is pretty much "everything goes" and everyone abides by it, so what the fuck do you expect me to do about it? Everyone's convinced that D weapons and shit is just fine, because it's no more broken than any death star unit, and that all the cheese just balances itself out. And every player who's not into optimizing their armies, are either destined to just sit by and remove models from the table, or start getting some more cheese.

Yes, I'm just so happy that GW gives us more freedom and options. Can't wait to see what "fun" I'll be facing the next time I decide to take my units out for a spin.

>inb4 "Well, sucks to be you, now would you quit it with them negative waves, we're trying to have some fun here?"

>> No.32166138

My only issue with Daemonology is that it makes playing Daemons as an army seem like an idiotic decision.

>YOU CAN PLAY WIF DEM MODELS IN ANY ARMY YOU FOOL.

I get that fluff has always stated that chaos can taint anyone, but man now the daemon army seems kinda superfluous.

>> No.32166213

>>32166138
yeah, like I understand daemons being shit out by a lot of psykers, but how many can actually control them? doubt theyll add a turning against the caster mechanism

>> No.32166231

>Bawwww 40k fluff is static, nothing ever changes.

>Bawwww that's not what I'm used to, they keep changing shit.
All the shit you guys are complaining about now is what sane people would call character development or advancement. The Tau built a big battlesuit, that's called technological innovation. Some inquisitors do heretical things, that's called being a radical.

>> No.32166276

>>32166231
>>32166231
I like unit additions as a means to imply fluff progression. Its when the game loses any semblance of a game for the sake of "accurately" portraying fluff that bugs me.

>> No.32166332

>>32166276
How is it innacurate to show a character slowly falling to chaos when the entire backstory of 40k is "The guy who the emperor trusted the most betrayed him to chaos."

>> No.32166353

>>32166332
Its not.

It just means that the guy who likes to play pure daemons looks kinda stupid since he can have them in any army.

>> No.32166368

>>32166353
But what if he wants pure daemons?

>> No.32166412

>>32166332
except that this isn't a psyker slowly falling to chaos, this is a bunch of ultramarines summoning waves of daemons to defeat the thousand sons while the allied chaplains dont even care

>> No.32166414

>>32166353
Then he can either, A: Keep playing pure demons and give no fucks. or B: Add non demon models to his existing army by restructuring it.

Demon players should be excited about the new possibilities. They can now add inquisitors and space marines to their demon armies.

>> No.32166422

>>32163631

dang $50 for 10 models? Thats pretty spendy

>> No.32166456

>>32166353

You don't understand. They'll buff up daemons to sell more models, like they did with Tau. That's why they nerf Tau this edition.

Now imagine an army of only buffed daemons. They were already a top tier competitive army. Now they get huge MC buffs. I don't even mind them being OP as fuck since that's what they are in all the fluff. Daemons should be ridiculously hard to fight. Good thing they're an assault heavy army too so you can carefully plan how best to shoot what.

I'm going with a DE assault heavy army to watch both parties slug away

>> No.32166463

>>32166368
I'll tell you right now we have a guy in our group who plays a pure Nurgle army and he is difficult to win against.
It might be just those damn dice rolls I guess....

>> No.32166475

>>32165879
> Why would they, they get to summon daemons out the butt.
I won't be summoning any daemons, and I don't give a shit if people do.

>>32166029
> So would every asshole as well.
Again, I'd rather them err on the side of permissive than have them punish me for what some other faggot does.

> what the fuck do you expect me to do about it?
Cope? Play a different game? Get a different hobby? Wait until you can get out of your shitty town? I play D&D, and I went 12 years without a game because after I moved to Texas nobody in my shithole of a hometown played except a few trenchcoat-wearing asspies. 12 years between games. You know what I did? I lived the rest of my life. I did all the other things I like to do. Nobody's forcing you to play with shitstains. Are you seriously telling me you'd rather play with assholes, have no fun, and get stomped than just go the fuck outside for a walk?

Or you could do what I did and introduce new people to your games, people you already know and like, so when you want a game you can call them over to your place or head over to theirs. Unless you're friends with a bunch of hoarders, somebody's got to have a 4x4 space you can clear out for a thousand-point fun match.

>> No.32166506

>>32166414
And also, if somebody plays loyalists they can either,

A: Stay Loyalist and fight people who have armies which summon demons. or B: Turn to chaos by adding demons to their existing army.

Really everyone wins except whining neckbeards.

>> No.32166551

>>32166506

Chances are we'll see a revamp of a lot of Daemon models because of this

new bloodthirster

>> No.32166594

>>32166422
Yeah, that's why you buy just the torsos and heads and bash them with regular Guard minis. They're 100% compatible.

>> No.32166601

>>32166551
Don't get my hopes up damn you. I still have cold sweats thinking about putting the old metal version together

>> No.32166615
File: 5 KB, 194x250, Iron Finger.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
32166615

>>32166506
C: Option A, but with more LOGIC and RAGE and ROBUTTS and ABJECT, SEETHING HATRED

>> No.32166674

>>32166463
>play as orks
>lose a lot but still have fun
>decide I like the look of nurgley stuff one day
>buy a bunch of plaguebearers and marines to do a 50/50 army
>not put together yet
>all I'm hearing is that it's a WAAC top tier army everything else go home

I didn't ask for this. I just want to be green people that have fun.

>> No.32166736

>>32166615
Oh soon enough you'll be able to have Necrons in your formerly loyalist army as well.

>> No.32166748

>>32166138
>>32166213
...except daemons are the absolute best at daemonology, they can plonk down troops that grant warp charges and they need a 3+ instead of 4+. So daemonology makes daemons better.

>> No.32166763
File: 52 KB, 700x700, IMG_9916.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
32166763

>>32166674
I actually have a Slaanesh army of 400 Points that needs to be built. I'm using a different company model for my Herald though.
Oh what does WAAC mean?
Too lazy to properly search the web for an answer.

>> No.32166771

>>32166412
Actually, this is the ultramarine librarian getting killed by perils or being possessed trying to kill the damn thousand sons

>> No.32166793

>>32166748
I don't care about daemons being better. I care about daemons being a unique army that not every other usable force can partake of.

>> No.32166807

>>32166793
Oh okay. I'm not sympathetic at all then.

>> No.32166825

>>32166763
Win at all costs.

>> No.32166868

>>32166475
>fuck you, got mine

Always a great attitude to have.

>> No.32166872
File: 14 KB, 307x183, captcha.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
32166872

>>32166748
source?

>> No.32166933

>>32161522
Coteaz forgot how to puritan.

>> No.32166977

>>32166872
The WD talked about different armies having affinity for different psi categories, so daemons=daemonology, and they get successes on 3+ instead of 4+.

I find it VERY cool how due to daemons being able to field psychic troops who are perfect for hunkering down and generating charges, there's also a huge degree of natural synergy there.

>> No.32167009

>>32166868
I'm not sure where you get "fuck you, got mine" from. GW can't do anything to fix cunts, and if your problem is cunts, no amount of rules changing will make a difference. Even in the most perfectly balanced game, they'd still be cunts. So instead of trying to cater to people like you, who can never truly be satisfied because there's no cure for cunt and you'll always be facing cunt players, they cater to the majority of people, who just want to have fucking fun.

It's not that I don't feel sympathy for you. It's that I don't think your problem could be fixed by GW.

>> No.32167035

>>32166615
Necrons? These? No, these are venerable Legio Cybernetica constructs which we deploy with the utmost care and respect. And to which we give a healthy berth so as not to get caught up in the wrath of their perfectly legitemate, Adeptus Mechanicus approved weapons.

>> No.32167065

>>32166825
Thanks for that.
I'll also mention he use to play Imperial Guard as an all tank army using spearhead rules at 1,500 maybe, memory a bit fuzzy on the points size.

>> No.32167136

New Necron Codex when?

>> No.32167168

>>32167136
Not so fast.

>> No.32167270

>>32167136
Speaking of the Necron codex, what's going to happen to Trazyn the Infinite's 'counts as scoring' rule when the next edition hits seeing as everything can score now?

>> No.32167280

>>32166138

It's probably going to be too much of a pain in the ass for anon-Chaos army to really bother with summoning anything. Saw something saying that even if you threw 6 dice at a Warp Charge 3 power, you only have 60-70% chance of succeeding, and this is before we found out that for non-Chaos, any double when using Daemonology is Perils.

>> No.32167295

>>32167009
>"I won't be summoning any daemons, and I don't give a shit if people do."
>"I'd rather them err on the side of permissive than have them punish me for what some other faggot does"

Gee, don't know where one would get that idea...

>no amount of rules changing will make a difference

Have you actually ever played a game with balanced rules? How the fuck are you going to be a cheese mongering cunt WAAC scum in chess? How is it that a great number of other miniature games don't suffer from the same problems as GW games?

>can never truly be satisfied because there's no cure for cunt

Right, because when the rules tell you "do what ever the fuck you want," it's the cunts who follow the rules, instead of subjecting themselves to the tyranny of peer pressure and letting the community decide what you should and shouldn't field.

I fielded melta-vets since 3e, but come 5e and suddenly I'm a cunt. I liked the idea of long range light artillery and got some thudd guns. Uh-oh, now I'm a cunt for fielding T7 Artillery. Took a MoO once and my opponent considered me to be a cunt for most of the battle, no matter how much I tried to explain to him how random the fucking thing was.

Look, if you want to be a special snowflake and field what ever the fuck you want, fine, but don't come crying when you can't find anymore "fun" opponents. Or when GW realizes their "everything goes" and "inside every player is a beautiful butterfly of creativity just waiting to burst out" attitude is failing and we get another 3-4e, and people can't believe all their totally fluffy army fragments cannot be fielded together anymore.

>> No.32167300

>>32167280
People are just bitching about Chaos Daemons summoning more daemons to summon more daemons so they can summon more daemons. It's the XZibit Effect.

>> No.32167337

>>32167300
Don't forget about the Portalkey so you can summon daemons while you summon daemons to summon daemons

>> No.32167382

>>32165572
Well that makes Ahrmian so much less of a special snowflake.

>> No.32167480

>>32165415
Relatively expensive T3 weak Inv save elites choice that makes an average number of average, featureless combat attacks, with slightly above average mobility and infiltrate but no transport and a basic shooting attack that requires a pain token to unlock, which requires them to kill a unit first (unlikely to impossible) or be joined by an Haemonculus at the start of the game, which prevents them from infiltrating and thus really does reduce them to shittier wyches or kabalites.

If Haemonculi and/or Archons could buy Mandrake Skin as an alternative armour choice, which makes them Daemons with the Infiltrate rule but restricts their independent character ability to Mandrakes, they might see use as a gimmicky bodyguard at their current price.

>> No.32167516

>>32167480
Side note: They're Elites which means they're fighting with Trueborn.

>> No.32167627

>>32167295
> using Chess
Chess has a strictly limited number of outcomes. Warhammer does not. And you don't select your chess army from twenty different forces with individual rules for each piece. Use a more apt metaphor. You might as well use tic tac toe for your comparison for all the validity it has.

> when the rules tell you "do what ever the fuck you want,"
They don't
> it's the cunts who follow the rules,
If they do so in an unsportsmanlike manner, yes
> instead of... letting the community decide what you should and shouldn't field.
Obviously peer pressure isn't the solution, because in communities like yours, the players are cunts. And again, there's nought to be done about that.

> I fielded melta-vets since 3e, but come 5e and suddenly I'm a cunt.
You really expect me to believe that your 3e list just happened to line up perfectly with an optimal 5e list? Meltavets were not the problem. Meltavets as a dirt-cheap troop source, backed up with 3 Manticores and 9 Vendettas, was the problem. If your opponents are complaining that you have t3/5+ men in 12/10/10 transports, they're cunts. Not a rules problem.
> I liked the idea of long range light artillery and got some thudd guns.
Nobody has ever accused a fucking thudd gun of being overpowered except cunts. Again, problem with your players, which a rule change does nothing for.

> Look, if you want to be a special snowflake and field what ever the fuck you want, fine
I already do
> don't come crying when you can't find anymore "fun" opponents.
My community isn't shit, so I never have that problem.

> and people can't believe all their totally fluffy army fragments cannot be fielded together anymore.
Well for someone who's been playing since 3e, you have a remarkably slim grasp of GW's practices of late. They're not going back. They've opened the gates, friend.

>> No.32167632

>>32167516
Also true, as well as . . . well, I suppose nothing, the Dark Eldar Elite slots really are garbage. Dat Fast Attack selection, on the other hand . . .

>> No.32167835

>>32167632
But mut incubi. ;_;

>> No.32167871

>>32167627
But of course. YOUR group is nothing but bros and everyone else is a cunt. YOU know very well who is a cunt and only cunts would argue against YOUR judgement of what is a cunty.

>They're not going back. They've opened the gates, friend.

Except when they've saturated the market with a billion releases and a hundred codexes, supplements and formations, people get fed up with the bullshit and their market shares drop.

>> No.32167926
File: 141 KB, 283x209, scribes.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
32167926

soooo...
is this gonna be like... really useful now?

>> No.32167952

>>32167926
Good catch.

>> No.32168058

>>32167871
> YOUR group is nothing but bros
Yep
> and everyone else is a cunt
Never said that. I'm going by the descriptions you've given me of the WAAC fags with the Strength D weapons who can't seem to handle you using Guard in Chimeras.

> YOU know very well who is a cunt and only cunts would argue against YOUR judgement of what is a cunty.
Well, since it's MY opinion, yes. I'm pretty much the only one who's qualified to give you my assessment of what's cunty and what's not. You can disagree all you want, but that doesn't change my opinion. And if the people you play with are getting mad at you for a fluffy Guard list and they're using four Knights and five Riptides, yeah, they're pretty much cunts. And if it's the kind of faggot who will bring five riptides to the table because he's allowed to, he will exploit anything else he is *allowed* to exploit. So GW has the option of not *allowing* him very many options - at which point their model range is constricted and they can't sell product (because once I've got my spice moranes, why buy more spice moranes?) - or they let people do more stuff, which allows them to release more, newer models that they can sell, a consequence of which is letting people with too many models of one arbitrarily-defined category say "I like all of these and I'm gonna bring them."

>> No.32168091

>>32167926
> YFW they roll a 6 on Mal Daemonology
> YFW they're not psykers
> YFW you get a free GD

>> No.32168134
File: 37 KB, 470x360, Dow_m01_isador.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
32168134

>>32165876
>"An open mind is a fortress, with it's gates unbarred and unguarded."

>> No.32168168

>>32168058
So what's the logic of even letting the rules bring 5 riptides, if it's a cunty thing to do?

>> No.32168185

>>32164712
That doesnt sound like someone disappearing! Youre an imposter!

>> No.32168189

>>32167835
Eh, they're alright. No Trueborn though.

>> No.32168197

>>32165876
>It's more dramatic.

I find it highly expected. The bullshit the inquisition pulls (and I don't just mean radicals) makes me feel the whole thing is more or less a bunch of closet Tzeentch cultists.

>> No.32168253
File: 167 KB, 700x547, 1377064533424.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
32168253

>>32165023
...But we wanted sexy Inquisitors too...

>>32165334
>1) All armies except Tyranids get access to Daemonology
And again the Tyranids get shafted...

>>32165876
>>32166506
Well what are we waiting for, LET'S GO SEDUCE SOME SORORITAS!!!

>>32166793
...But now Daemon armies get TANKS!!!

>> No.32168264

>>32168168
5 riptides is one cunty thing you can do with the rule. You know what else you can do with the rule? 9 dreadnoughts at 1500. That's not cunty, or even mildly competitive, but fuck me if it isn't fun. You know what else you can do? Ally your Chaos Space Marines with Imperial Guard, in a normal game, for the first time since Thorpe got rid of cultists and basilisks. Ally Wraithlords to Iron Hands for the ultimate "no I am the best robot" dick-waving contest. There are a limited number of very shitty outcomes for the rule. There are a vast number of outcomes that are fun. People who are decent human beings will not play the shitty outcomes unless both players have agreed to go no holds barred. People who are decent human beings know how to differentiate casual "beer and pretzels" gameplay from "go for the throat" gameplay. Cunts do not understand these things, and therefore bring 5 riptides to a game where I've got 9 dreadnoughts, and then just laugh and laugh and laugh as though they've somehow accomplished something by gaming the system. And then I calmly pack up my army, go find someone else to play with, and nothing of value is lost.

>> No.32168286

>>32168253
You can already shit out babies every turn without risking Perils of the Really Bad Day In Hell.

Alt text: GW haet tyranid. Life is hard. Sorry bro :(

>> No.32168334

>>32168264
You could ally guard with chaos marines in 6th

>> No.32168346

>>32168334
You can get 5 riptides in 6th. Try to keep up.

>> No.32168355
File: 138 KB, 433x643, 1392026338862.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
32168355

>>32168286
>>32168253
You can do pic related.

>> No.32168396

>>32168346
I am not trying to attack unbound I just wanted to point out something you seemed to think was a 7th feature and yes that also includes riptides

>> No.32168414

>>32168264
>9 dreadnoughts at 1500. That's not cunty, or even mildly competitive, but fuck me if it isn't fun.

And when the rules change and spamming 9 dreads becomes a cunty thing to do, where's your fun then?

>> No.32168425

>>32168253
You mean like in 6th edition where daemons can ally with guard?

>> No.32168457

>>32168396
Ah, I see now. Sorry about that. No, I wasn't viewing 5 riptides (or 9 dreadnoughts, for that matter) as a 7th edition thing. I'm talking about current abuses of power versus current uses for a permissive system. I'm illustrating that making the system even more permissive dies not automatically mean everyone will turn into frothing cuntmonsters. The cuntmonsters are already here.

>> No.32168463

>>32168414

Than you stop doing it because you're not an asshole.

Or you just switch to a less cunty loadout.

>> No.32168526

>>32168414
> implying Dreadnoughts will ever be good again
Then I'll probably swap a couple of them for Assault Centurions, which are also incredibly awesome models and also hilariously bad in the rules. Or I'll switch to my Stormtrooper regiment. Or I'll still run them, but I'll warn people beforehand (and because these are my friends they'll already know I love dreadnoughts) that the army I love has recently become very strong.

I run 9 Dreadnoughts because I love the model, and because I have 9 dreadnoughts (of varying age, model, and kit) to put on the field.

>> No.32168609

>>32168463
So, instead of being the cunt who always alters their list with every new release to stay competitive, "fun" players have to constantly keep tabs on the meta to know when they're being too powerful and tone it down.

Just imagine if the rules were at least semi-balanced, so you could field what ever the fuck you wanted and the difference between a cunt and fun was diminished and even facing the cunt with 5 riptides would be fun, since his army wouldn't be that much stronger than your fun army and even a mediocre army could win easily against a cunt by just playing well.

>> No.32168812

>>32168526
>all dreadnoughts are now MCs
>Ironclad 2+
>Venerable 4++

>> No.32168856

>>32168526
>implying Dreadnoughts will ever be good again

4e Guard was shit and they turned out ok. Artillery was shit and now it's not.

Enjoy getting called a cunt in the future for your dread spam, you fucking cunt.

>> No.32168876

>>32161744
This is what happens to any player that considers using the Daemonology table.

>> No.32168883

>>32168856

Artillery aren't walkers. Unless all walkers turn into MCs which I doubt is going to happen because only new model kits like the DK and Riptide get to be MCs.

>> No.32168923

>>32168883
>implying 7e SM codex won't just turn dreads into MCs

>> No.32168950

>>32161744
>touch a wooden desk
>get turned into a daemon

Fucking Chaos.

>> No.32169113

>>32168950
Well I didn't make it!
If I did, he'd be a hot chick right now instead of some kind of pointy beast thing...

Also, she'd probably be humping the desk...

>> No.32169350
File: 19 KB, 500x500, slaan.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
32169350

>>32169113
Why is it always hot chicks, anyway? Why doesn't chaos ever turn anyone into a hot, slutty dude? What demon do I need to summon to get some goddamn bishies around here?

>> No.32169489

>>32169350
I'm sorry, but our Cult is kinda trying to turn EVERYONE into Hot Chicks...
...It's basically the core of our ideology, the Galaxy wouldn't be anywhere near as grimdark if it was filled with only Lesbians!

>> No.32169532
File: 34 KB, 510x546, loudest.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
32169532

>>32169350
>slaanesh
>ONLY hot chicks

captcha: seems manbut
holy shit

>> No.32169584
File: 16 KB, 500x500, tzen.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
32169584

>>32169489
Femanon here. Trust me, it would be worse. The idea that women are pretty and pure and angelic and awesome is generally the providence of men.
>>32169532
I know, but everyone's response is usually 'woo, pretty girls'. Where's the equal opportunity fanservice? Where's my fun, goddammit?

>> No.32169599
File: 385 KB, 666x800, fulgrim.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
32169599

>>32169350
You rang?

>> No.32169626

>>32169584
>The idea that women are pretty and pure and angelic and awesome is generally the providence of men.

And the idea that men can be pretty and pure and angelic and awesome is generally the providence of women.

The only difference is the stupid male view is far more likely to occur than the female's.

>> No.32169627
File: 15 KB, 453x492, nurgy.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
32169627

>>32169599
Well hello there, fulgrim. Good start, shame he looks like he's made of plastic. That never stopped anyone from enjoying Genzoman, so whatever.

>> No.32169672

>>32169584
>Femanon here. Trust me, it would be worse. The idea that women are pretty and pure and angelic and awesome is generally the providence of men.
Of course, this is where we see the cognitive dissonance between what the Daughters of Peace WANT the Galaxy to be and what it actually WOULD be.
Slaanesh would still be a selfish prick instead of the loving MILF Goddess they want, while in my head canon, their "greatest enemy" Khorne was actually a woman the entire time!

>> No.32169718
File: 16 KB, 500x500, khor.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
32169718

>>32169672
Huh. I'm actually okay with that. Nice done, I'd actually play against you and defend you against peoples' knee-jerk reaction to your army.

>> No.32169806

>>32169718
Yeah, most people just see that I'm using my Magical Realm for inspiration and start slinging shit right there, not even bothering to take the time to see that instead of the Mary Sue Lesbian Saviors I've twisted my NiceDaemonettes into horrifically abused Slaanesh-enablers...

>> No.32169841
File: 33 KB, 299x108, Captcha.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
32169841

>>32169806
Probably because on the surface they still ARE mary sue lesbian saviors. And you only get one chance with most people, because after that they're just like 'well, this guy's fucking creepy and his army is shit, let's move on'.

Also, captcha, are you high?

>> No.32169906

Way to shit up a perfectly fine thread.

Women.

>> No.32169914

>>32169841
Meh, the people who flip their shit over that are the same who try to claim No Sororita has EVER fallen to Chaos and they don't have sex EVER...

>> No.32169933
File: 15 KB, 500x500, 1227746962852.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
32169933

>>32169914
Or still get pissed about the Bloodtide.

>> No.32169999

>>32169933
Eh, Bloodtide was kind of a shit move even it was the Sororita sacrificing themselves willing so the Grey Knights could finish the fight instead of just being turned into hats...
How many other factions have a defining "Victory" where their contribution was being Armor Paint?

>> No.32172641

>>32169350
If anything there are more hot dudes of Slaanesh than hot chicks because both armies tend to be male oriented.

>> No.32172661

>>32169999
Nice Tzeentch quads.

Its better than how most IG/GK combined victories turn out.

>> No.32173461

>>32168197
This.
After reading the Daemonifuge comics, where Black Templar captains fall , ecclesiarchs are daemonhosts, and loyalist inquisitors BLAM each other because of secrecy, you really understand how the inquisition ends up paranoid as sin.

>> No.32173933

>>32168609
> So, instead of being the cunt who always alters their list with every new release to stay competitive, "fun" players have to constantly keep tabs on the meta to know when they're being too powerful and tone it down.

Pretty much, yeah. If you realize your army is going to give a well-balanced, fun list a ton and a half of grief, it's reasonable to alter that army to provide a fun challenge rather than a curbstomp.

>>32168856
> Enjoy getting called a cunt in the future for your dread spam, you fucking cunt.
As I said, if dreadspam becomes That Army (which it never will, because walkers - especially the melee walkers I like to run - are one of the worst unit types in the whole game) I will happily change my list to include some other choices.

>> No.32174104

>>32173933

There's so much wrong with this it's retarded.

1. If GW balanced better, Ron Idiot spamming random units could still have a chance at winning. You should not be penalized or have to change your army just because some stupid kid decided to spam Mandrakes and you need to weaken yourself so he has a chance.

2. If people weren't little whiny babies there wouldn't be a problem with "his army is too strong!" This doesn't even apply only to WAAC cheese lists. There are people who come on /tg/ and say things like Stormravens are overpowered.

3. Why should someone weaken himself to suit his opponents? People should sit down at a game expecting a challenge and to do their best to win. Fun and competition are hardly mutually exclusive.

>> No.32174222

>>32174104
> Ron Idiot spamming random units could still have a chance at winning.
Yes, the best strategy games are the ones where any idiot can win. This is why button mashing is a time-honored tradition in competitive fighting game competitions.

> If people weren't little whiny babies there wouldn't be a problem with "his army is too strong!"
There's a difference between whiny bitches complaining that I'm taking 18 Assault Centurions or three loaded-up Vanguard Veteran squads, and people complaining that someone is taking five riptides. One is genuinely unbalanced. The other is a bunch of mediocre melee units in Codex:SM.

> Why should someone weaken himself to suit his opponents?
Because this is a game, and both people should be having fun. If two people sit down at the table with different ideas about what constitutes an enjoyable game, at least one of them is probably gonna be disappointed. Because not everyone is at the same skill level. Because this game costs money, and not everyone has the same disposable income. If you play ALL COMPETITIVE ALL THE TIME and bring your M:tG deck with a thousand dollars worth of cards, and you sit down next to Casual Carl and his deck full of cards from Ice Age through Urza's Saga, you're kind of a shithead.

>> No.32174460

>>32174222
>Yes, the best strategy games are the ones where any idiot can win.

Ironic considering you're defending a post that claims people with inferior strategies should have their opponents change their army to allow them a better chance at winning.

>> No.32174475

>>32174222

If one guy isn't having fun and his opponent is being a good sportsman and playing within the rules, the problem is him, not his opponent.

>> No.32174577

>>32174460
> Ironic considering you're defending a post that claims people with inferior strategies should have their opponents change their army to allow them a better chance at winning.

The two concepts are different.
I should not be able to haphazardly throw together an army and beat a finely-tuned build that takes into account unit synergies and such. My 9 dreadnought list should not be able to beat a tournament list because it's not built for tournaments. But I shouldn't have to face nothing but tournament lists with my 9 dreadnought list because they're built for different reasons.

>>32174475
> and his opponent is being a good sportsman and playing within the rules,
Yes. Being a good sportsman. Including not bringing your "CRUSH ALL BENEATH MY BOOTS" army to a casual pickup game. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with having a netlist dressed to the nines. I'm saying that such a list is inherently built for a different purpose, and should be judged by different metrics, than a list that's thrown together because the models look cool or because it's what I could afford at the time.

>> No.32174809

>>32174475

Spamming OP shit is not being a good sportsman. How do you not understand this, you're saying the same damn thing using different words.

>> No.32174839

>>32172661
Yeah, but it's the IG's THING to die standing holding the line.
The Sisters were once so badass they were used to keep Space Marines in line, now they can't even take on a simple daemonic incursion by themselves...

>> No.32174844

>>32174809

No, you're just making assumptions and strawmanning. It's like you're too stupid to realize that I specifically mentioned in a previous post that /tg/ faggots will complain about STORMRAVENS of all things.

If I take a Stormraven or two I am not "spamming OP shit" or being a bad sportsman.

>> No.32174865

>>32174577
>But I shouldn't have to face nothing but tournament lists with my 9 dreadnought list because they're built for different reasons.

Yeah, the problem isn't you, it's everyone else with their dirty tournament lists. Gtfo.

I like how you scrubs alter the definition of sportsmanship. Trying your best to win falls well within the bounds of being a good sport.

>> No.32174964

>>32174865
And again, you're misunderstanding the core concept. There is a time and place for tournament lists. If you've both agreed to a serious game, then you can absolutely bring a serious list. But if you've both agreed to a casual game and this faggot brings five riptides, he is absolutely a fucking cuntshit. Literally ALL IT TAKES is some fucking communication before the game. If you want a serious game and I brought my silly list, we'll part ways with no harm done. It's seriously that simple. Why are you not grasping this?

>>32174844
Nobody here is saying two Stormravens are OP spam. You and I are agreeing on this, but you're fighting anyway.

>> No.32175969

I hope battle brothers can ride in your vehicles. I want to wield 6 sternguards in vendetta.

>> No.32176035

>>32175969
For that kind of rule we will have to wait and see, It might be allowed in unbound armies, but don't get your hopes up just in case.

>> No.32178075

>>32164141
It's within the theme of "while you're buying all these broadsides, why not buy some daemons to that your allies can summon"

>> No.32178606

Where the fuck do people got that "each psyker can spend masterylevel + 1 Power dice per turn"?

>> No.32181049

>>32167835

Are pretty trash without nades.

>> No.32181153

>>32181049
Alright, here's an interesting question: Assuming that Incubi would be a worthy Elites choice at their current cost plus free plasma grenades how much of a discount would they require to be worth it without grenades?

>> No.32183033

>>32161846
Everyone but Tyranids can, that's who.

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