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32082783 No.32082783 [DELETED]  [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

So it's coming, and GW even managed to release a video talking about it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7JnMByJVUow

Screen cap is from video and shows two of the perks standard armies get.

>> No.32082832

I just came here to post this.
Actually, Unbound is sounding better to me now.

>> No.32082848

>>32082832
I mean I came to post the video, no my tiny opinion.

>> No.32082854

>>32082832
Sorry to ninja you like that. I just posted it because I hadn't seen it on here yet. I came looking to see if anyone had the next WD yet like they did last week.

>> No.32082857

>all the rules are out the window
>daemons and ALL OF THE UNITS for everybody
>GW STILL is making us roll for warlord traits for special snowflakes rather than pick and choose

>> No.32082887

>>32082857
Rules aren't out the window, we don't know what Daemons entails, Unbound armies still follow the rules for allies (so not "all of the units" just "most of the units"...unless you're Nids then it's "none of the units because GW hates you").

But yeah, I'm not super excited for this either.

>> No.32082898

>>32082857
>make a rule called IDEAL mission commander
>said commander's suitability remains subject to the will of Tzeentch

>> No.32082915

>>32082887
I'm excited more at the prospect of building lists that are more fun to play with.
Like, maybe I don't want those heavy support slots, but I sure would like some more fast attack choices.

>> No.32082916

>>32082898
>Just as planned.

>> No.32082935

>>32082915
I'm tempted to start a proper Deathwatch army (Librarians leading every squad, Sternguard for all my troop units, Pedro so they score...) with it, just for thematic coolness.

>> No.32082960

>>32082935
I want to do a tau PDF force which is mostly just drones.

>> No.32082993

>>32082960
That sounds hilarious.

>> No.32083087

>>32082857
>still no genestealer cults by taking nids and IG

>> No.32083093

>>32082935
This is the proper use of the rules, I think.
You just can't make some fluffy shit with the foc.

>> No.32083171

>>32083093
Exactly!

You could do some really good pre-heresy Thousand Sons in a similar fashion too. Gotta have them Libbies leading squads.

>> No.32083292
File: 49 KB, 457x447, 1327362646730.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
32083292

>My name's Jervis Johnson...
Somehow, I knew it would be him before I even clicked on the link.

>...and to more accurately represent the deep and really interesting background for the game.
So that'll be why entirely loyal Space Marines can now start shitting out Bloodthirsters when they're losing, right?

>and we've been doing Formations for Warhammer 40,000 too, but we see them as an important part of the new version of the game, so we'll be doing more of them.
Oh boy, I sure can't wait for GW to charge me extra to buy all the DLC Formations they release, since they're apparently going to be such an important part of the game.

The one bright side I see in that video is the line that says people have to agree how they're going to select their armies before the game starts; so it looks like you shouldn't have to worry about people springing some absurd Unbound army on you.

>> No.32083352

>>32083292
>entirely loyal Space Marines can now start shitting out Bloodthirsters

Seems to me that if your Marines start summoning daemons, they weren't that loyal in the first place.

>> No.32083371

>>32082783

Oh boy can't wait to reroll my warlord trait

>> No.32083415

>>32083292
Depends on how the summoning works.
I suspect it will be such a double edged sword as to be useless entirely.

>> No.32083432

>>32083415
Cool, so instead we get an entire army made "useless entirely"?

>> No.32083452

>>32083292
That picture made me chuckle.

>> No.32083467

>>32083292
I want to see Dark Angels be the only Marines who summon daemons because they're pretty much secret-Radicals when it comes to them hunting the Fallen anyways.

>> No.32083468

>>32083432
What army?

>> No.32083487

>>32083415
I don't care how powerful it is. I care about it running roughshod over the fluff. It's fine, in theory, to have a special set of Daemonology lores to handle the summoning and banishment of Daemons, but there needs to be limits on who can access what aspects of it. Rules and Fluff will never perfectly match, bit when a perfectly loyal Special Character can willingly choose to sacrifice himself to summon a Greater Daemon, something has gone horribly wrong.

>> No.32083488

Kinda want to see an army that's just a Baneblade and a sea of Lemon Ruskies.

Or just two armies playing nothing but Deathstrikes, just to lob missiles at the other tables in the story, playing as the world's worst ICBM batteries in 40k as they fail to hit one another from fifty feet away.

>> No.32083511

>>32083488
To be fair, ICBM are rather bad at hitting anything fifty feet away.

>> No.32083519

>>32083487
Things like that HAVE happened in the fluff, tho, even if it is rare and an outlier occasion.
You seem to think that all Imperial armies are mindlessly loyal beyond all circumstances, when the entire background of the setting is based on the exact opposite.

>> No.32083666

>>32083519
>Things like that HAVE happened in the fluff

So? That doesn't mean they should be represented in the rules. Things like this are not a common occurrence, and I don't feel it's appropriate for them to be represented in your average game. They're the realm of special scenarios, not pick-up club games.

>You seem to think
Please don't assume you know what I think.

>> No.32083748

>>32083666
>That doesn't mean they should be represented in the rules.
But that's what they clearly decided: to represent more of the background stuff on the table.

And if you don't like it: don't play with it. It's not like you're being forced to use every portion of the rulebook afterall.

>> No.32083769
File: 18 KB, 366x380, 1263274078409.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
32083769

>>32083666
>Please don't assume you know what I think.
someone seems buttflustered

>> No.32083778

>>32083748
>And if you don't like it: don't play with it.

That's exactly the plan. Our club has been talking it over and we're pretty sure Unbound armies are going to be banned, and Daemonology heavily restricted as to who can use it.

>> No.32083806

>>32083292
>Somehow, I knew it would be him before I even clicked on the link.
You too? How curious.

>> No.32083818

>>32083778
I find that pretty damn weak honestly. There is a lot of stuff Unbound can be fluffy with (see earlier Sternguard example that can't be done with the rulebook as is) so an outright ban is just a bit pathetic in my book.

Seriously, I think people are getting too up their own asses about the things people can do to abuse rule sets and not what they can do positively with them.

>> No.32083841

>>32083666
>That doesn't mean they should be represented in the rules
Possibilities and outliers are basically what 40k is about, unless you believe that wars are fought in microcosm.
>Please don't assume you know what I think
I don't need to, it bleeds in with your posts. I want more of the crazy things that 40k is known for actually able to happen on the table, you want less.
The difference is that for good or ill, I'm getting what I WANT in 40k, and you aren't. Will this lead to more shit? Of course, but that is part and parcel to any game. But I'd rather have awesome holy shit moments where my opponent summons up daemons in desperation and I find myself in an unexpected battle on 2 fronts, fighting tooth and nail for victory hard earned like the old days with the Tau Alliance apoc wars than the static drek 40k had become with 3e.
I'm sorry you don't appreciate it the way I do, but I look for the good in these things, not wail and moan about the possible bad.
If you can't find pleasure in the game, sell your armies, drop your trip and move on, as so many others have done.
I wish you the best, regardless, and retire from this argument.

>> No.32083853

>>32083818

Fuck fun, 40k is serious business.

>> No.32083877

>>32083853
Fuck serious business.

>> No.32083974

>>32083853
>>32083877
Just fuck already.

>> No.32084000

>>32083818
> There is a lot of stuff Unbound can be fluffy with

And a lot of ways it can be abused, or simply come up with a list that's not much fun to play against. It's easier to cut it out entirely than try dealing with each permutation of army on a case-by-base basis. We already have a couple of people running fairly esoteric armies through Counts-As and judicious use of the Allies chart, so running very specific themes like the aforementioned Deathwatch list isn't a problem for us.

GW seems to be taking the stance of simply throwing out as many options as they can and allowing individual players and groups to impose their own limitations. That's not an approach I particularly like, but if that's what I've got it's what I'll work with, even if it means sitting down with the rulebook and a metaphorical large red pen.

I also find it a bit funny that people say "If you don't like it, don't play against it", then start getting shirty when you say that's exactly what you're going to do.

>> No.32084044

>>32084000
To be fair, most people will be like that when you act like a condescending prick.

>> No.32084087
File: 1.07 MB, 1500x1095, waterloo.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
32084087

>>32082783
My plan is simple.

Creed & Co.
One or two platoons with lascannon heavy weapons and line infantry.
Fill rest of points with rough riders.

Pic related.

>> No.32084101

can black templar into terminators

>> No.32084109
File: 547 KB, 1920x800, Unbound Imperial Guard.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
32084109

>>32084087
>Not going all rough riders

>> No.32084114

>>32084044
If I've come across that way, then I'll apologise; it wasn't intentional. Other than a bit of general snark aimed at GW in my first post and an admittedly rather snappy retort to someone incorrectly guessing at my motivations, I've been trying to keep my tone fairly neutral.

>> No.32084117

>>32084109
I wanted to do this but... I wanted some anti-tank...

Should I really go all RR?

>> No.32084170

>>32083666
>I don't feel it's appropriate for them to be represented in your average game
That seems needlessly restrictive. The rules should represent anything that can happen in a 40k battle, not just the most normal stuff. And hey, if you don't think loyalists should be summoning daemons don't summon any daemons when you play them.[/spoiler

>> No.32084208

>>32083974
No thanks. I don't like where serious business has been, it looks like it has a few diseases.

>> No.32084212
File: 81 KB, 500x375, horses and shit.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
32084212

>>32084117
yus

>> No.32084226

>>32084000
So "fuck even considering fluffy armies because people can abuse the ruleset". So WHY are you playing 40k again if that's your mindset?

>> No.32084239

>>32083666
So Angron fighting Imhotek is a common occurence to you?
Battles in 40k are intended to be as epic as possible; there are a bajillion battles going on all the time in 40k, and the game itself is relatively small in scale. What you play is basically a zoomed in view to one of those special moments, one that would fit into those timeline events in every codex (which serve to give you examples of how battles could be)

>> No.32084326

>>32084170
>The rules should represent anything that can happen in a 40k battle

How far do you go, though? Do you include rules for the possibility of Exterminatus or other massive disasters, like crashing spacecraft, occurring during the battle? NPC civilians and wild animals roaming around and attacking/being attacked by both players? Uncontrolled Daemonic rifts breaking out if the casualties on both sides are particularly high?

The funny thing is, I wouldn't object to stuff like this being in the book - as part of an appendix at the back, full of optional rules and extras you can use for creating special scenario games. That's how they were treated in the past - published in White Dwarf or on the website as a fun add-on you could use to spice up special, pre-planned games. It's the fact that they're being shoehorned into the general rules that irritates me.

>>32084226
The vast majority of people at our club play fluffy armies and have never found the FoC particularly problematic or restrictive in the doing so.

>> No.32084375

>>32083292

>bloosthirsters

>not gluing together marines in a single monster creature base to represent heroes of the chapter past.

>not making a giant space marine chapter master of the chapter foundation or a glorious loyal crusader hero of the heresy to rain vengance on the enemy

> not using a giant gryphon of warhammer fantasy glued into a monster creature base for a howling gryphons chapter or a shark for a chacharodons chapter instead of a bloodthirster.

God dammint anon, do i have to do all the thinking.

>> No.32084416

>>32084326
Congrats. Too bad there are fluffy armies you still can't fit into a single FOC.

>> No.32084422

>>32084326
>How far do you go, though? Do you include rules for the possibility of Exterminatus or other massive disasters, like crashing spacecraft, occurring during the battle? NPC civilians and wild animals roaming around and attacking/being attacked by both players? Uncontrolled Daemonic rifts breaking out if the casualties on both sides are particularly high?

I actually wouldn't mind playing that.

>> No.32084432

>>32084416
like?

>> No.32084433

>>32084326
>Do you include rules for the possibility of Exterminatus or other massive disasters, like crashing spacecraft, occurring during the battle? NPC civilians and wild animals roaming around and attacking/being attacked by both players? Uncontrolled Daemonic rifts breaking out if the casualties on both sides are particularly high?
You mean some 2e shit?
Yes, please. I sometimes think I'm the only one that remembers when shit like that was considered part and parcel to the game experience.
Let the crazy shit happen, bring it on, as long as it's FUN.

>> No.32084441

>>32084422
Check apocalypse

>> No.32084443

>>32082783
I'm pretty excited for this now. I think my friends and I are going to do some houseruling for it, but I think it's definitely workable.
I think I'm sliding away more from cautiously optimistic to genuinely excited

>> No.32084470

>>32084432
Any SM company that isn't the tactical companies.
Hive fleets that favor certain creatures over others.
Some necron dynasties.
Certain Craftworlds.
Half the Ork clans.

>> No.32084505

>>32084432
Deathwatch as mentioned, their squads are usually lead by Libbies for instance.

Pre-Heresy Thousand Sons without using Grey Knights would need the same.

>> No.32084521

So who else out figured out that since Formations can be taken in Unbound armies that they're likely going to release formations that have the Objective Secured rule as a bonus, ala Skyblight Formation, for future codices. In the form of a dataslates of course.

>> No.32084529

>>32084432
Sciencecrons.
Crypteks + canopteks and nothing else.

>> No.32084548

>>32084432
Look at formations for inspiration.

>> No.32084555

>>32084433
I would love to see some battlefield hazards that can actually be threatening and aren't just spots of terrain you can easily walk around.

>> No.32084573

>>32084433
>>32084422
And like I said, it's not the inherent existence of these rules that I feel's the problem - it's the fact they've been crammed into the core rules. At best, it's simply rules bloat that slows the game down, at worst it pushes 40k from 'fun but unbalanced' to completely broken.

IMO, the ideal would be for GW to produce a fairly neat, tight set of core rules, then start producing supplements and add-ons that add extra rules and variables, gameplay modes and missions, weird details, and so on and so forth which people can pick and choose from. That way, if you want a reasonably balanced pick-up game, you can have it - and you've got a wealth of extra material to dip in and out of if you want to create something a bit crazier.

>> No.32084588

>>32084555
1) git gut @ boardbuilding
Seriously, if your table looks liek it's from a tournament, you're doing it wrong.
2) Read through the example modified terrain rules in the rulebook and create your own mysterious terrain chart or declare some changes.
Seriously, the rulebook constantly reminds you to do whatever you thin is fun and sees itself just as a general guideline.

>> No.32084594

>>32084470
>Any SM company that isn't the tactical companies.

Companies that aren't tactical are usually supporting tactical companies.

>Hive fleets that favor certain creatures over others.
>Some necron dynasties.
>Certain Craftworlds.
>Half the Ork clans.

Such as?

>>32084505
>Pre-Heresy Thousand Sons without using Grey Knights would need the same.

Can't just use FW's 30k?

>> No.32084643

>>32084573
>IMO, the ideal would be for GW to produce a fairly neat, tight set of core rules, then start producing supplements and add-ons that add extra rules and variables, gameplay modes and missions, weird details, and so on and so forth which people can pick and choose from. That way, if you want a reasonably balanced pick-up game, you can have it - and you've got a wealth of extra material to dip in and out of if you want to create something a bit crazier.

That's 6th Edition, anon.
But them being core rules doesn't mean you have to use them; i've seen more than enough people ignore the 'mysterious x' tables and building rules because they thought it'd be more fun this way.

>> No.32084647

So, can anyone actually provide fluff justification for every Imperial psyker knowing how to summon a greater daemon? If it were so easy, wouldn't every two-bit cult operating on an Imperial planet start summoning Bloodthirsters as soon as shit hit the fan?

>> No.32084650

>>32084594
Not those anons but:
>Can't just use FW's 30k?
1. No rules yet
2. Being able to use 40k's rules give more legitimacy for players weho refuse to mix 40k and HH's systems.

>Companies that aren't tactical are usually supporting tactical companies.
Usually, not always. I for one look forward to fielding a first company. I love me some Terminators and Sternguard

>> No.32084662

so vehicles are gonna be harder to kill right? how about chariots? and if the new edition fucks over my defiler/soul grinder/slaanesh chariot/burning chariots then whatev i'll still use them and i'm doubling up for whfb anyway

>> No.32084717

>>32084212
110 points per RR, should I include meltas for AT?

>> No.32084720

>>32084594
They haven't released rules for Thousand Sons yet and some people won't play against 30k lists.

>> No.32084742

>>32084647
Drawing upon the warp way too much and being super unfortunate? Doesn't have to intentional in the fluff despite being intentional on the part of player, rules != fluff.

In any case, we don't even know if say, the Dark Angels can use malefic daemonology, the wording is suspect, "allowed" "for the purposes of playtesting."

Worse case scenario, if the idea of a psyker fucking up and overdrawing on the warp and attracting unwanted attention is so horribly unfluffy to you, tell your opponent you don't want to play with those rules for loyalists like a reasonable human being though I'm forgetting what website I'm saying that on.

>> No.32084758

>>32084720
Some? Some??

>> No.32084792

>>32084758
Okay, okay, MOST.

>> No.32084851

>>32084326
What is warp storm table.


...There were some scenarios that had place on the hull of spaceship that was getting bumbed with heavy ordnance, and additional fun of decompression

>> No.32084875

>>32084742
>Drawing upon the warp way too much and being super unfortunate?
This is already represented by perils of the warp.
> Doesn't have to intentional in the fluff despite being intentional on the part of player, rules != fluff.
I thought the argument in favor of this was that it was fluffier. Now the argument is that the rules don't have to match the fluff?
>Worse case scenario, if the idea of a psyker fucking up and overdrawing on the warp and attracting unwanted attention is so horribly unfluffy to you
Nice straw-man.
>tell your opponent you don't want to play with those rules for loyalists like a reasonable human being
That's a cop-out. Sure, it's a solution, but it does nothing to disprove how retarded the rules actually are. Plus it won't fly for tournaments or most PuG's.


This whole "loyalists are all well-versed in summoning greater daemons" wouldn't be nearly as bad if this extremely laissez-faire attitude was universal. If you're going to let Ezekiel get cornered and pop out a Blood Thirster, you should also let Tyranids ally with pretty much anyone due to genestealer cults or mind control.

>> No.32084933

>>32084720
I played against 30k army, 2k points.

Slapped him silly using my fluffy list.

They are one leg in the apocalypse point range and struggle on smaller to medium battles. Even 2k is not enough for them.

>> No.32085052

>>32084375
this anon is our friend, he plays for fun with fun ideas. personally i look forward to fielding a couple of cheap heralds and powering them up to greater deamons.

>what's this? a deamon player with only foot troops and walkers? this will be easy an-
>wtf i didn't expect to be fighting 4 keepers of secrets!
>how about a white flag?
>show me your other honor.jpeg

>> No.32085076

>>32084875
>implying loyalist spawn bloodletters and not imperial guard miniheroes as quasi legion of the damned
It's like you can't even use your imagination.
What are you doing on this board?!

>> No.32085105

>>32084720
>>32084650
>wants pre-heresy TS
>doesn't want to play 30k

Sound thinking.

I get that people want their fluffy shit, but what exactly is the problem with the regular units? Exactly how super special were pre-heresy TS that standard CSM/SM won't cut it?

>> No.32085133

>>32085105
Oh I mix 30k/40k all the time (Usually by using a Praetor as an HQ to represent a relic'd out captain), but not many people are as fortunate with their opponents as I am.

>> No.32085143

>>32085105
It's more that the pre-heresy guys want 30k but their opponents won't play against it.

>> No.32085273
File: 276 KB, 1024x1365, 1397205155893.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
32085273

All wraithlords, all the time

>> No.32085284

>>32085076
That's even worse from a fluff perspective. That sort of reasoning should also let everyone ally with everyone as Battle Brothers.

>> No.32085316

>>32085273
Use the Iyanden book and go all Wraithknights with one as your Warlord?

>> No.32085326

>>32085273
You could already go all wraith.

>> No.32085338
File: 30 KB, 300x105, year-of-the-ghosts.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
32085338

>>32085076
For sure (pic related).

>>32085284
You're saying it like it's a bad thing.

>> No.32085340

>>32085284
but we could spread all that delicious love and heresy easier anon, don't wanna disappoint Slaanesh now and dammit i want a swarmlord husbando hanging out with my keeper

>> No.32085503

I still don't quite see how rerolling your shitty warlord trait and denying a claim is meant to stack up to your opponent just vomiting a stack of riptides all over the field, annihilating your army by turn two.

>> No.32085514

>>32085503
GW makes the foolish mistake of expecting their players not to be giant faglords

>> No.32085518

>>32085284
They ARE re"work"ing the allies matrix. Maybe everyone IS battle brothers woth everyone except for tyranids.

>> No.32085536
File: 1.88 MB, 3648x2736, IMG_2343.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
32085536

>>32085273
stop, please! you are exciting my white scar 30 grav gun standard list to no end!

>> No.32085557

>>32085503
Are you fucking shitting me? Next you're gonna tell me +1 to cease the initiative and a special warlord trait table to roll on in Escalation isn't a good balance to 4 large blast D. Jesus you people just can't forge a narrative to save your lives.

>> No.32085567

>>32085316

I'm not sure. Wraith knights arnt as fabulous as wraithlords. No sexy foreheads

>> No.32085592

>>32085536
>those paints

>> No.32085604
File: 91 KB, 698x960, 10277059_10152489684194954_3873038486156362195_n.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
32085604

demons, demons everywhere.

Pro tip:
how to fix you'r gaming experience whit this new exiting edition: Selle 40k & play Infinity

>> No.32085605

>>32085536
THIN YOUR PAINTS!

>> No.32085626

>>32085604
Got anymore Anon?

>> No.32085655

>>32085604
>how to fix you'r gaming experience whit this new exiting edition: Selle 40k & play Infinity

Or come up with an agreement with your opponent.

>> No.32085685

The more I think about this the better it sounds.

I used to push for better balance between the rules and codices, but with this it seems they've said fuck everything and lets make it all extreme. That means I can take my Necros and ally them with my Chaos Space Marines and then have my librarian summon a whole mess of daemons.

I can use all my armies, except my Nids, and that sounds awesome.
I have been wanting to use my Daemons for a long time. I really don't like the lol random ,but oh well twelve thousand points of Daemons have been sitting on my shelf for a while can't wait to dust them off.

My only gripe is that I hope they make assaulting more viable.

>> No.32085692

>>32085655
mabye, mabye. but that's easy, everyone can do that.

>>32085626
not yet

>> No.32085716

>>32085692
Fair enough.

I wonder how those Warp Charges work exactly.

>> No.32085726

>>32085604
>primaris power
>3 warp charges

Well, not using that anytime soon.

>> No.32085761

>>32085726
i feay you have 1d6+psykers level.

So if i use for example 3 Tigurius, i have 1d6+12 warp charges, every "psyker" can use all of them (such as fantasy)

>> No.32085763

From the Daemons 40k blog:
Quote:
>Battle Brothers:
>Eldar/DE
>Chaos/Daemons
>All Imperium
>All others were convenience, desperate or apocalypse.
>No answer as to whether you can join units of battle brothers.

>Psychic Phase
>Roll a D6 and add the total mastery levels of all your psykers. You get that many power dice and your opponent gets that many DTW dice.

>To cast a power, you need to roll a 4+ for every warp charge of the power you're using. So warp charge 2 = two 4+, meaning you'd need 4 power dice to have an average shot.

>Your opponent dispels the power with a roll of a 6 on their dice. So the more dice they have, the more shots they get at rolling that 6 to cancel out that critical power. I was told that the mastery level of the psyker dispelling the power lowers the roll needed to dispel it. So a ML2 psyker dispels on a 5+, ML3 on a 4+. etc...

>That is what I was told.

>That seems wrong to me because Fateweaver, Eldrad and Ahriman could dispel anything on a 3+. More likely, I would think you compare mastery levels between the casting psyker and the dispelling psyker, and apply a bonus that way. This is conjecture. What I wrote above is what I was told.
>What I also don't know is if there is a dice limit a psyker can use to cast or dispel a power based on their mastery level. I also don't know if you need two 6's to dispel a ML2 power. I assume you do.

>You would figure Adamantium Will would give you +1 to DTW for powers cast at a unit with that rule.

>Jink Save
>Jink is a 4+, however it is no longer always on. You must declare a jink to claim it, and if you do so, it's snapshots only in the next phase.

>Sweeping Advance
>Unchanged. You do not consolidate into a new combat.

>> No.32085770

>>32084717
I'm planning to have 10 man RR units for anti infantry and going against rear armour and 5 man units or Meltaguns and SGT with Meltabomb Plasma pistol.

Shame no more Mogul Kamir, guess there'll be no officers in my Rider only army.

>> No.32085774

>>32085604
This shit for demons and CSM is absolute buttrape, jesus fuck it is awesome, hopefully it'll be limited to those two books and maybe Malleus Inquisitors while everyone gets Sanctic or whatever its called.

>> No.32085778
File: 136 KB, 383x400, 1392762927220.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
32085778

>>32085604
>power that gives +1 to invul within caster
>summoning lessers
>sacrificing friendlies to summon heralds
>bringing out greaters
>2 lame shooting powers

only downside i can think of is you can't offer up your enemies to the gods for these summons. also i am gonna enjoy this. someone call the grey knights and kindly ask that they prepare for the rape or to be raped. my face as well

>> No.32085845

>>32085763
If its true then its awesome, I bet Jervis or Merrett wrote that ally chart.

>> No.32085856
File: 126 KB, 369x368, filthygodwindevils.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
32085856

>>32085604

>Cursed Earth

SCREAMERSTAR LIVES!

>> No.32085870

>rerolling warlord traits

WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

oh wait thats shit

>> No.32085878

>>32085845
>Jervis
>Writing things that are good
The man is the same person who was touting how great of an addition to Knights are to the regular game with no sense of irony.

>> No.32085885

>>32085604
Wouldn't GK be the best force to summon daemons with, now that psykers just contribute to a pool of warp charges? I mean, literally every GK unit has at least Mastery 1...

>> No.32085890

>>32085604

This is more broken than Divination. The worst is actually #1, for improving an save that shouldn't be improved.

Fuck everything!

>> No.32085895

>>32085870
It's great for Creed. He basically gets 4 dice to get the traits he wants.

>> No.32085947

>>32085763
Could you explain the allies a bit more please?

>> No.32085948

>>32085845
Jervis 'More random tables!' Johson? Yeah, no, if it was him there'd be more wacky things to roll dice for.

>> No.32085949

>>32085604
Those daemon-summoning powers look great fun. Letting loyalists use them still seems pretty silly, but they make kay-oss a lot more tempting.

Decent-looking Greater Daemon models when?

>> No.32085959

>>32085856

Actually thinking about it... if Blessings stack in 7e you could end up with multiple Tzeentch 2++ rerollable units.

>> No.32085965

>>32085536
Stop, please! You are amusing my Tau 100 drone list.

>> No.32085969

>>32085947
Nope, that's all they have.

>> No.32085984

>>32085856
And at warp charge 1.

>GW in charge of balance

>> No.32085986

>>32085878
>>32085948

Yeah but at least he respects the fluff more than Ward, Cruddace or Kelly.

>> No.32085990

>>32085895
Creed, Asurmen and Calgar. Beyond that it's utter shite. Doubly so for guys with fixed traits.

>> No.32085997

>>32082783
Why is 7e coming out so soon? Was 6e that much of a failure?

>> No.32086013

>>32085959
I hope there's a bit about invulnerable saves cant be better than 3++..I hope..

>> No.32086015

>>32085885
But they cost a ton. Take IG and for 575pts. you get 11 mastery levels of psykers (2 astropaths, 3 lvl. 2 primaris psykers and 3x5 battle psykers.)

>> No.32086021

>>32085763
ugh, that psychic phase sounds clunky, couldn't we just do 2d6 like whfb?

>>32085685
>my librarian summon a whole mess of daemons.
>librarian

your heresy is well noted loyalist, we welcome you to the fold with open arms

>>32085885
only the HQ characters can swap out their powers for BRB tables. what they need is to get the Culexus Assassin because it will benefit from all these deamons and psykers

>> No.32086023

>>32085997

>Was 6e that much of a failure?

Stock prices say yes.

>> No.32086031

>>32085997
no.Or atleast not the rulebok itself, but the codices.
Ofc people keep blaming the edition, only to take up the ass the very next fuked up rulebook.

Gw need to colse the annual fiscal balance whit a PLUS so they are releasing the next edition.

Simple story

>> No.32086033

>>32085604
This sort of makes me want to make an IG/Cultist list nothing but psykers and conscripts/fodder to turn into daemons.

>> No.32086035

>>32085986
>Comparing Kelly to Cruddace and Ward

Also, is Cruddace worse than Ward by now?

>> No.32086036

>>32085604
The only way in which this could be any more broken and badly designed would be if there was a 7th power which you simply cannot get and the page was 1/3 colored, 1/3 black, white and 1/3 blank.

>> No.32086038

>>32085997
GW's not making enough money, I suppose.

>> No.32086044

>>32086035
Yes. Ward has been getting a lot better but we still call them "Cruddexes".

>> No.32086055

>>32086021
nvm i read that wrong about the GK psykers.

>> No.32086069

>>32086044
I heard Ward got some editors watching his ass after the Grey Knights codex.

>> No.32086085

I hope there is a severe penalty for any non chaos army that tries to summon demons. But because its GW I doubt there is. IG or eldar psykers summoning demons that fight with you is so fluffy afterall.

>> No.32086093

>>32082783
Where were you the day GW killed Warhammer 40k?

>> No.32086104

>>32086069
If true then that's all he needed to help smooth out his fluff. He's got good ideas but needs help executing them well.

>> No.32086119

>>32086093
1987... I guess I was in kindergarten back then.

>> No.32086121

>>32086093
Ain't seen it yet.

>> No.32086145

This really is the edition that GW throws the idea of competitive 40k under a bus, isn't it? I mean, 6th ed was obviously an attempt to kick those players in the crotch, but it pales in comparison to this. The online rage is going to be something to behold.

>> No.32086176

>>32086145

not really, the comp tourney players will just make "houserules" to fix the stuff they see as broken. The increasing game imbalance mainly hurts people that play random PUGs.

>> No.32086188

>>32086145
Competitive 40k? Hasn't existed since they half-assed it in 3rd.

>> No.32086193

>>32086145
No more highly competitive tournaments?
Back to 1st edition ideas of fun with friends and story based campaigns?

nope

>> No.32086194

>>32086119
Wouldn't that be the day they invented 40k? Was it dead on arrival?

>>32086093
I think they're killing any notion that it could be a competitive/balanced 'tournament' style game. Unless I guess the tournament scene is really, really motivated to come up with its own houserules to make competitive play work. But half the Murrican blogger people seem to be promoting Dropzone Commander now, so... we might well see a big walkout.

>> No.32086197

>>32085604
>Selle 40k & play my shiity animoo Squad Game
FTFY

>> No.32086205

>>32086145
for fuck's sake if TO are so bent on 40k being a 'competitive game' then why dont they bring back comp scores or lower points?

>> No.32086211

>>32086193
No reason you couldn't do that with 6th. Or 5th. Or 4th, or any other edition. The only thing stopping you would be not having friends to do it with.

>> No.32086218

>>32086205
They can't agree on what to do to make it "more competitive". So basically they can't fix it because no one can agree on shit.

>> No.32086230

>>32086194
>Dropzone Commander

Ewwegh

I hope not, those are the funkiest models I've ever seen, and i hate 10mm games

>> No.32086241

>>32086194
I wouldn't even call it a "game." If it isn't at least somewhat competitive. No one is going to play unbounded. People are going to come into the FLGS with an unbounded army and be laughed at.

>> No.32086268

Time to sell all my 40k shit and move entirely to fantasy.

>> No.32086274

>>32086241
I think some unbound armies will see the table, just not in places full of faggots and cheesedicks.

>> No.32086290

>>32086274
>not in places full of faggots and cheesedicks.

Good luck finding a game store without these.

>> No.32086298

Im now planning my grey knight army that summons demons with shit tons of physic dice all backed up with IG with divination, fuck the fluff

>> No.32086321
File: 1.94 MB, 1628x1070, 6th ed force org chart.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
32086321

>>32085997
Blame it on the DLC.
They probably realized that a) the current force org chart is a cluster fuck and b) they have to keep doing that as a stock company because that's how they can make their bucks

>> No.32086324

>>32086298
That's pretty fluffy, GK a hypocrites.

>> No.32086329

>>32086290
My old FLGS and my current one are pretty damn cool actually.

>> No.32086330

>>32086290
>playing in stores
>not playing with friends

>> No.32086331

>>32086211
You clearly don't know people who become super cheesy/rules lawyering when there's winning and losing involved. I've seen two dudes, who are perfectly normal guys with jobs, wives and shit, argue like an hour about some mud puddle on the board and whether or not it counts as difficult terrain, and trying to get in between them was like sticking your dick into a hornet's nest.

Hell, I know a dude who's so competitive, even when he's winning, any setback will annoy him to great length's (he's great in team sports, though and makes a great captain, because he just hates losing so much).

>> No.32086341

>>32086268
Implying that's not next for the old makes no sense chopping block. You wait, in a year you will be playing ogre kingdoms with skaven slaves to absorb the beatings before they get across the field.

>> No.32086345

>>32084875

Isn't it just a perils of the warp result? In the fluff psyker powers go wrong all the time and instead of exploding, they get possessed by daemons. Usually not small or nice ones either.

>> No.32086357

>>32086345
Rumors say it'll be harsher but no details yet.

>> No.32086371

I HAVEN'T BEEN PAYING ATTENTION

PLEASE SUMMARIZE WHAT WE KNOW SO FAR IN ONE SENTENCE OR LESS

>> No.32086380

>>32086371
GW threw balance out the door and you can now take whatever units you want

>> No.32086382

>>32086371
7th is FREEDOM edition.

>> No.32086390

>>32086371
2 choice: if you wanna play 40k, play psion and\or demon

If you don't wanna play psion and\or demon, change game.

>> No.32086399

>>32086371
7th ed is murrican edition, you can play any army you want but get pros/cons from it and people smell the ultracheese

>> No.32086405

>>32086241
Yeah, fuck Unbound cherry picking.

I'll just use my perfectly legal, FOC bound IG with GK allies, Inquisitorial detachment, a knight paladin, Macharius super-heavy, some FW artillery, a Lost and the Damned squad, and a storm wing formation.

>> No.32086410

>>32085273

>tfw I play dark eldar

Might be fun, literally everything I can field can kill you easily

>> No.32086427

>>32085949
Soon.
By which I mean November
http://www.creaturecaster.com/

>> No.32086472

>>32086197
>shitty animoo squad game
>you cantualy play all the range w/o get bashing by a mere copypasta armylist
>you need brain instead combo, cookiecutter combo\units

yea, i'm feel very confortable where i'm.
The difference is simple: i do not get angry, nor get angry over a BBS, if someone don't like "my game"

>> No.32086475

>>32086405
I know you're being sarcastic but its not like an army like that would be OP

>> No.32086483

>>32086371
No need to follow the Force Org chart if you take an unknown penalty, leading to cheese lists and silly/fluff lists being planned.

>> No.32086522

>>32086427
those look kinda nice, but i think i'll end up converting a Tomb King ushabti into a LoC with wings/staff

>> No.32086542

From Bell of Lost Sense:
>Warhammer 7th Edition: Price: roughly $80
>Edition is presented in a new format, 3 hardcover books in a slipcover. Pagecount of all three is about 450 pages in total:
>The Rulebook: @200 pages, only rules
>The Grimdark: @128 pages - Fluff and history of the Warhammer universe
>The Hobby: @114 pages - Full miniatures and hobby book. All splash pics, and intro to the hobby stuff.

>> No.32086584

>>32086427
What are my daemonette proxy options, oh great hivemind, keeper of links, gatemaster of knowledge?

>> No.32086591
File: 434 KB, 571x540, wut.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
32086591

>>32082783
Holy fuck, this is so incredibly idiotic only games workshop could pull it off.

Lead Rules Designer - "Hey, our force organization chart has become too complex, what should we do?"

Rules Designer 1 - "Lets allow players to take whatever they want and everything is scoring!"
Rules Designer 2 - "We should copy/paste the formation rules we use for apocalypse, fuck doing more work!"
Rules Designer 3 - "How about we just simplify the force organization chart?"

Lead Rules Designer "Yes, let's use the ideas from nr1 and nr2. As for you nr3, you are fired!"

>> No.32086607

>>32086542
>$80
shit

But I do like the 3 volume idea

>> No.32086637

>>32086607
Only $5 USD more than 6th Edition's core rulebook, and a lot more pages total.

>> No.32086645

>>32085604

As a dark eldar player I have to say that's pretty gay but on the other hand it's cool because I like daemons and if they don't get to do anything on the turn they're summoned, I can probably charge them.

In the spirit of gotta go faster, I'll probably either charge the psyker or the daemon really soon.
>bring lelith
>9 blood brides with hydra gauntlets
>good luck surviving 30 wounds faggit

>> No.32086647

>>32086591
More like
"Hey, we should let our players do whatever they want while fighting each other."
"Yeah! There's no way this is unfair!"
"And we need to screw over the tyranids even more"
"Well that's a given"

>> No.32086662

>>32085763

They finally fixed tau ally crap?

>> No.32086664

>>32086472

I want to play Infinity but I don't like Skirmish games. Would it be possible to play the game on a scale as if it were a medium/full sized 40k game?

>> No.32086675

>>32086662
If the rumors are true, basically, yeah.

>> No.32086684

>>32086664
No.

Try warmachine or warpath.

>> No.32086693

>>32086675

if rumours are true they've joined the Necrons and Orcs in "Our alliances suck but at least we're not Tyranids" Land.

>> No.32086700

>>32085763

>>Jink is a 4+, however it is no longer always on. You must declare a jink to claim it, and if you do so, it's snapshots only in the next phase.

This better be negated by skilled rider, the last thing dark eldar need is major nerfs before getting a new codex in 2020

>> No.32086704

>>32085763
>Daemons 40k blog:
Aww, no one is best buds with Necrons or Tau.

>> No.32086707

>>32086675
I am okay with this.
Maybe people can stop harping on the tau now.
>It'll never happen
Shut up, you.

>> No.32086722

>>32086664
yes and no.
yes becouse rulebook do not deny a 1000 point game
No becouse it would be a fuking ARO mess (translated, it would be a BIG mess)

>> No.32086731

>>32086700
So basically you want White Scars armies to keep raping face then.

>> No.32086735

>>32086584
http://www.avatars-of-war.com/eng/web/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&prodcode=pl10-ps&prodname=Vestals+of+Nemesis+30+miniatures+regiment+preorder+deal&mediumcast=plastic&id=118&Itemid=115

They're a bit Dark Elf-y but painted right they could serve well enough as Daemonettes.

>> No.32086736

>>32086700

Skilled riding doesn't make you a crack shot.

>> No.32086758

>>32086321

Except, you know, other companies are starting to make better models that can be used as proxies and the rules aren't why we play the game so why would we continue to buy updates if they just keep shitting them out for money.

>> No.32086763

>>32086735
Fits their origin, i suppose.

>> No.32086797

>>32086758
You're not their target demographic.

>> No.32086811

>>32086357

The best thing would be if it was a perils of the warp result and then the bloodthirster would just attack random things in its jump range. Just give every unit within range a number, roll the amount of dice to be able to create the highest number and then reroll until a number matches a unit. The bloodthirster charges this unit.

Maybe not within jump range. I recall it has a huge jump range but I don't know how big. Could be fun, bloodthirster charging across half the field as an NPC, just smashing and killing shit.

>inb4 everybody ded, bloodthirster wins

>> No.32086814

Guys this has nothing at all to do with these rules leaks, but help me find a game that isn't 40k

What I'm looking for:
>cheap models/rules
>good looking PLASTIC models (unless I don't have to paint/assemble anything I guess?)
>fun
>able to do skirmish AND large 40k-scale battles well
>giant robots/mecha/sci-fi is a plus

I'll get it over it if I can't have anything, but that's generally what I'm looking for. I enjoyed 40k for a while, but the fundamental imbalances eventually got to me- so gimme something 40k fans would enjoy.

>> No.32086829

>>32086735
Excellent! Any ideas for a proper keeper of secrets?

>> No.32086853
File: 148 KB, 1130x900, 1389572908393.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
32086853

>I can now take a fuckload of librarians

KNOWLEDGE IS POWER, GUARD IT WELL

>> No.32086865

>>32086853
>Bjorn gets to be on the table with a Blood Ravens Army
>As the Emperor intended.

>> No.32086867

>>32086814
>good looking PLASTIC models
Is going to make this hard. Plastic moulds aren't really cheap, though warmachine is slowly transitioning to plastic; and going by the rest of your list, you might want to give the game a chance ( warmachine is mostly steampunk but has some sci fi aprts as well; one faction even completly consists of robots&cyborgs)
The only downside is that the models aren't that much cheaper, so going 40k scale is possible and playable, but as expensive as starting another 40k army.

>> No.32086871
File: 33 KB, 416x300, Ahmadinejad Shrug.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
32086871

>Ideal Mission Commander
Changes nothing. My commander has a fixed trait.

>Objective Secured
Breddy Gud

>Daemons for everyone
Don't give a fuck

>Loss of Battle Brothers for Tau
Dark Eldar still aren't Allies of Convenience at least, so I can't run my fanfiction. Changes nothing.

>Psychic Phase
Suffering

>Jink Save
Changes nothing, really.

>Sweeping advance
Thank god for small victories.

Overall 7/10 it's okay, no real change for me.

>> No.32086888

>>32086871
Sweeping advance?

I thought that wasn't changing.

>> No.32086889

>>32086405
>>32086241

It suggests that either both parties play unbound or FOC armies and this is agreed upon before the game. This would mean:

>competitive players can play competitive games
>fluffy players can actually field fluffy armies in games where winning isn't important

It could be a good thing, just another game mode where both parties can play what they like most. I'd love to play a REAL space marine battle sometime like in the fluff. Mostly troops, one or two dreads/devastator squads and maybe a tank. Takes place in a ruined city with loads of cover, potential for overlapping fields of fire and sneaking up on each other.

>> No.32086899

I'll probably skip this edition and keep running 6th for a few more years. Part of it is the seemingly huge overhauls and the other is I'm not gonna shell out for every updated codex and the main rulebook again so soon.

>> No.32086900

>>32086829
i actually just use the FW model, because why have 2 tits when you can have 6?

>> No.32086902
File: 22 KB, 336x400, buisness, astartes.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
32086902

>>32086853
>I can take a fuckload of drones

BEHOLD THE POWER OF SHAS'O BAMA

>> No.32086913

>>32086888

Exactly.

>> No.32086914
File: 125 KB, 500x350, 7089581981_83095a549f.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
32086914

>>32086814
Dust, maybe?

Doesn't really matter what /tg/ recommends, though. The most important thing is whether you can actually meet anyone who plays the game.

>> No.32086922

>>32086900
You only have 2 hands.

>> No.32086927

All I want to know is whether or not I can run an army made up of nothing but Chaos Terminators, Obliterators, and Daemon Engines.

>> No.32086930

>>32086922
but she has 4

>> No.32086931
File: 855 KB, 1168x958, 426.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
32086931

>>32086758

Because the nice not-GW models cost even more than GW.

Seriously I want some of this stuff but it costs like $112 USD. That's more ridiculous than FW. So I always laugh at people who say other companies make cheaper stuff than GW. Yeah if it looks like shit (cough the old Mantic stuff [and the new Mantic stuff costs as much/more than GW]).

>> No.32086933

>>32086922
Not if you're a Keeper of Secrets.

>> No.32086937

>>32082887
>Unbound armies still follow the rules for allies
With the information we have at present, this is false. Previews say you can use anything in your collection. Jervis says you can make "interesting what-if armies" with "complete freedom"

>> No.32086938

>>32086914
>The most important thing is whether you can actually meet anyone who plays the game.

I do all my /tg/-ing with a group of friends. I'd just need to sell them.

>> No.32086948

>>32083853
Mah niggah.

>> No.32086949

>>32086927
yup

>> No.32086965

>>32086647
Actually tyranids stand a good chance of being better as a result of all this, dunno what you're upset about.

>> No.32086974

>>32086871
speaking of tau, don't they have a wargear that gives 4d6 deny the witch? this new edition might change that a bit, possibly so the whole army benefits from it though you're still looking at d6+4d6 deny vs 12-20ish

>> No.32086975

>>32084208

Yeah, they're called SUCCESS and VICTORY.

They are the smallpox to your fetid casual Native American scum.

>> No.32086982
File: 15 KB, 208x310, hatersgonnahate.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
32086982

>>32086949
Welp, I'm sold.

>> No.32086983

>>32086736

Hmm, maybe a new FAQ'ed in special rule for jetbikers then. Reavers literally only do one thing in the Dark City, which is doing Death Races. All day, every day for centuries they just race and kill the ones who are slow. They don't like to go slow. If you want to go slow you can go die over there in the corner. You gotta go fast as a reaver. They don't even know how to go slow. They have pinpoint accuracy while going fast because they always go fast.

>> No.32086987

>>32086974

That's a Farsight Enclaves wargear.

>> No.32086992

>>32086965

Skyblight makes bound Tyranid lists the best unless you just take like 100% Hive Tyrants.

>> No.32087009

WAIT

if i field a unbound list

can i field multiple LORDS OF WAR?

>> No.32087017

>>32086983

I'm the guy you're replying to, and now that I think about it, "skilled riders" DOES make you a crack shot, because the Mongolians weren't great because they could ride horses and kinda shoot bows, it was because they were skilled riders and could shoot bows WELL while RIDING.

Also jetbikes SHOULD get special rules (for shooting, not just movement) over normal bikes, because grav plates would theoretically have much smoother shock absorption and riding.

>> No.32087020

Interesting things about GW.

I've moved around, a lot, and every place I go I can find a club and they all know the rules. Few games can claim that.

Models are sweet and in comparison to other companies hardly overpriced for their quality.

They are money grubbin asshats but hey, they are a business, that's what they are supposed to do.

I play competitive 40k but frankly, whatever changes 7th brings, I'll keep on playing.

>> No.32087025

>>32086992

Can't you just take the Skyblight AND the Hive Tyrants? Objective Secured would come from the Formation instead of the Force Org in that case, so you should keep it.

>> No.32087027

>>32086931
>>32086797

All I'm saying is if they keep shitting out new rules that completely change the game, why bother to keep up with GW. Just play 6th or 7th edition while they try to stuff more DLC in your face.

What's the new starter kit going to be by the way?

>> No.32087028

>>32086829
Depends on what you want.
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/160822052068?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

http://www.creaturecaster.com/products/spiderdemon

http://www.fantization.com/pleasuredemon-resinx1fig.aspx

>> No.32087036

>>32087009

Yes. Imperial Knights already lets you take multiple superheavies, they're just not LoW so it isn't a stretch to take multiple LoW.

You can't even fit more than 1 Reaver Titan in most games anyway and cheap LoWs are very vulnerable to assault and things of that nature.

>> No.32087041

>>32087009
Sure, GW new motto "forge the narrative!"

Good luck finding someone to play you though.

>> No.32087044
File: 155 KB, 567x941, mantis-box-plus-command-group-EN_1024x1024.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
32087044

>>32086584

>> No.32087046

>>32087020
>every place I go I can find a club and they all know the rules. Few games can claim that.

The thing is, that's the only reason 40k is so popular.

Momentum. It's popularity causes people to play it that wouldn't otherwise, because the hobby is so niche.

>> No.32087054

>>32087025

Maybe. I said that because I don't know how formations work with unbound. Could you just like, take multiple Skyblight formations and be unbound? Or are formations not eligible for unbound lists? Because being unbound would not give you formation rules? I don't know.

>>32087027

Old rumor was Eldar vs. IG.

New one that seems likely is BA vs. I think Orks? It's BA vs. something.

>> No.32087060
File: 557 KB, 920x1632, WD002.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
32087060

>>32086937
WD last week disagrees. Top left of the image.

>> No.32087061

>>32087036
no zaraknel

>> No.32087073

>>32086889
Objective Secured sounds like its intended that you can play battleforged vs unbound.

The armies that have troops that're worthwhile in their own right instead of for filling slots are the ones most likely to take battleforged and its not like eldar are going to come off as underpowered.

>> No.32087077

>>32086975
You say that now, but come visit my Casinos Pale Face.

>> No.32087082

>>32086145
Tournament players will always play the ~5 best lists, whatever happens. Average players will still play whatever they like best and will randomly stomp or be stomped without competition. The imbalance just grows larger, that's it.

>> No.32087091

>>32087054

Fucking SWEET, I've been trying to get a BA army started for about 2 years now but I still haven't completely finished all the stuff I have now. I need a rulebook anyway by the looks of it. Hue.

>tfw bought dark vengeance because I already have chaos and dark angels armies
>learned 6th edition
>life got in the way
>never even got to play 6th
>7th is already here

fml

>> No.32087092

At GW headquarters:

>How do we sell more models?
>What if, we got rid of force org? So that people can field more of the OP models, which tend to be big expensive (Read: profitable) things
>Genius.

>> No.32087120

>>32087041

>field 12 ravagers with Vect
>steal initiative

I'm pretty sure it wouldn't end well

>> No.32087152

>>32087120
>DE can now take more triple lance Ravagers

GWWWWW

>> No.32087153

>>32087046

Not really, I have never played a game nor do I know anyone who plays but I have 6 armies. I had to dedicate an entire room in the house to 40k because it took up so much space even when stored in boxes.

>> No.32087193

>>32087082

If there are 5 or more best lists I consider that a good variety and diverse meta.

I play many, many systems where the top contenders only number in the 2's or 3's. Sometimes even only 1. Magic, Yugioh, fighting games, all of this shit is imbalanced as fuck.

>> No.32087204

>>32087152

They sound better on paper than they really are. 11 10 10 armor and only 4 bs so you get 3 shots that hit on a 3+ and usually wound on a 2+ or pen on a 4+.

Then they die. They aren't really that expensive but still, they will die from troops shooting at them.

>> No.32087224

>>32087153
I said that's why it's so popular.

Not the only reason anyone likes it.

>> No.32087239

>>32087028
different anon here, how about some beefcake deamons? i want golden ab beings like the necrons have

>>32086987
i'm so sorry

>>32087054
i wonder how shadow of the warp will be handled as well... oh and psychic hoods

>> No.32087270

>>32085604
Taken along with the new Psychic Power rules, these look really fun to play with - potentially creating new units is *very* powerful, but they're quite hard to get off, and the other powers are either situational or okay-ish shooting attacks. I stand by the assertion they should be limited as to who can use them, however.

>>32085763
Allies chart changes look okay. I'm glad to see Eldar and Dark Eldar are still Battle Brothers.

Psychic Powers are...interesting. It looks like a go big or go home thing - you really need to be throwing 2-3 dice just at a Warp Charge 1 power to safely get it off and the dice required are just going to keep going up as you get to the bigger ones. Warlocks look like they'll be a lot more worth fielding now - they'll produce extra dice for your Farseer to use, and any leftovers can be thrown at their own powers.

Six and half a dozen on Jink. Wave Serpents become even harder to kill (3+ cover save with Holofields if they Jink) but give up a lot of their shooting in exchange. It'll be interesting to see if Skilled Rider allows people to bypass the Snapshots penalty.

Not surprised about consolidating into a new combat still being, IMO quite rightly, out. Hopefully they'll still buff Assualt in other ways.

>> No.32087280

>>32087204

Usually you don't lose all 3 Ravagers on turn 2. You will lose at most 1.5 or 2. And that means the rest of your army is free to do its job, whether they be Venoms or more Ravagers.

>> No.32087291

>>32087193
1. It depends on what you call best. There is still a list to "rule them all".

2. Just because other games are shit, that does not in any way imply that WH40k should be shit too.

>> No.32087301

>>32087239
>shadow of the warp

LolNPCfaction

> psychic hoods

Changed to affect psychic phase/dice pool? Sort of like bonus to dispel scroll/wargear in WHFB or something.

>> No.32087308

>>32087193
>Magic, Yugioh, fighting games,

Well yeah those things are all shit

>> No.32087319

>>32087153
Where the fuck do you live?

>> No.32087328

>>32087308

40k is shit too, but at least it can have over 3 top tier options.

Don't pretend 40k is any less shitty competition-wise than card games or street fighter.

>> No.32087338

>>32087328
>Don't pretend 40k is any less shitty competition-wise than card games or street fighter.

It is absolutely less shit than those things.

It's just, not good, either.

>> No.32087355

>>32087239
I'd highly appreciate having a female model with absa for a female c'tan

>> No.32087376

>>32087328
damon have 1 strong list, maby 2
Tau have just 1 choice.
Space marine, i mean WHite scar, are the only true viable way.
Eldar can't play w/o farseers and council on jetbike.

I mean, in a very competitive way ofc.

>> No.32087401

>>32087338

EVO and other fighter conventions are a far cry compared to the rabble that passes for organized 40k play.

There is maybe like 2 or 3 exceptions for 40k. NOVA, BAO, and I dunno Adepticon maybe.

>> No.32087421

>>32087376

I'm talking about the game as a whole not each faction. Saying you HAVE to play the faction you painted is just a scrub excuse.

This is why 40k is better as a casual game and a hobby rather than competitive. Because not every army has multiple competitive options, or any at all.

>> No.32087455

>>32087270
>I stand by the assertion they should be limited as to who can use them, however.

There are really not many armies that aren't susceptible to the lure of Chaos.

Grey knights are about it.

At a minimum, it fits for: eldar (see: birth of Slaanesh), imperial guard (human psykers being corruptible is a key facet of the setting), all librarians other than GKs (sorcerers are usually said to be corrupted librarians, so its by definition possible), arguably GKs (they say they use 'sorcery,' which means... something or other).

Orks? Chaos boyz are a thing.

Anything I'm missing? Seems a fun, flavorful, fluffy kind of psyker stuff.

>> No.32087461

>>32087376

Serpent spam is still good.
Centurionstar gets more results than WS.

>> No.32087466

>>32087193
> fighting games, all of this shit is imbalanced as fuck.
Only bad ones like Marvel vs Capcom 3 or Tekken.
Blazblue before chronophantasma was better balanced than starcraft 2.

>> No.32087467

>>32083511
To be fairer, the CEP for an ICBM is probably about fifty feet.

>> No.32087483

>>32087466

Too bad Blazblue is shit and generic and all they do is add new waifus every update and prevented new Guilty Gear stuff for coming out for years.

GG Xrd pls

>> No.32087486

>>32087421

>playing games as a way to validate the reason for your existence

Or you know, learn some actual skills. I like competition but this is a game where you roll dice.

>> No.32087488

>>32087239
Honestly just about every Daemon that isn't Nurgle-y or Slaaneshi are rather muscly.

>> No.32087494

>>32087376
>Eldar can't play w/o farseers and council on jetbike.
>forgetting serpent spam and wraithspam

monkeigh pls

>> No.32087499

>>32087466
>starcraft 2.
Had shit balance.

>> No.32087501

>>32086902
THANKS SHAS'O BAMA.

>> No.32087509

>>32087376
Beastpack is top tier

>> No.32087511

>arguing that 40k is a better competitive system than M:tG or fighters

/tg/ pls

You are sounding like Warmahorde players.

>> No.32087522

>>32087483
Still mad at baiken not being in xrd and the story being somehow more generic than blazblue despite guilty gear being awesome.
Though the twist of calamity trigger was a fantastic play on the organization of fighting game story modes.

>> No.32087524

>>32087501
That made me laugh quite a bit.

>> No.32087540

>>32087421
>This is why 40k is better as a casual game and a hobby rather than competitive.
Except that is absolutely wrong. The difference in power level between two non-competitive armies is usually so great that it leads to very one-sided games. And I don't know about you, but I don't consider one-sided stomping fun.

>> No.32087542

>>32087486

Are you agreeing with me or are you just sort of trying to insult me somehow?

>> No.32087547

>>32087455
By that logic, Chaos Daemons should be available as allies for everyone except Tyranids and Grey Knights. Which, I'll grant, is not an unreasonable stance to take - it just doesn't sit entirely right with me.

>> No.32087554

>>32087511
Nobody is saying 40k's comp scene is GOOD.

Just better than those.

>> No.32087559

>>32087455
>There are really not many armies that aren't susceptible to the lure of Chaos.

Necrons are immune not only to chaos but fate as well (which is why Tzeench hates the shit out of them).
Though they don't have psykers anyway, so you wont see them using the new school , but I would expect them to get adamantium will as a usr next time they are updated.

>> No.32087586

>>32087559
Kind of hard to be susceptible to Chaos without a soul.

>> No.32087608

>>32087547
If there was a mechanism whereby your psykers are likely to suffer horrible perils and death as a result of the daemons being conveyed to the battlefield, sure.

>> No.32087617

>>32087499
>SC2 will never be as good as BW
>D3 will never be as good as D1/2
>ActiBlizzard will never be as good as Blizzard
>Street Fighter IV will never be as good as SFIII:3S
>SFIII wil never be as good as SFII
>There will never be another SF Alpha
>MvC3 will never be as good as MvC2
>MvC2 will never be as good as MvC
>MvC will never be as good as X-Men vs. SF
>BB will never be as good as GG
>Nobody will ever play Big Bang Beat
>Nobody will ever play Vanguard Princess
>They will never release a proper Guilty Gear X sequel
>There will never be a good Melty Blood
>They will never stop trying to make Touhou fighting competitive

>> No.32087619

>>32087547
Why are you namefagging?

>> No.32087642

>>32087522

Why would they remove XX characters though?

Maybe they will add her in future expansions to Xrd? Seriously they would bring back Zato to life and change Baldhead to Faust but completely remove Baiken? Might as well remove Anji too. Then remove May cause she's a Jap, thus removing Johnny.

>TATAMIGAESHI
>TATAMIGAESHI
>TATAMIGAESHI

>> No.32087654

>>32087617
>X will never be as good as Y
There. Every nerd stance covered.

Oh and Z is OP.

>> No.32087655

>>32087559
Chaos is still allies of convenience with them, iirc, so they can be persuaded, like tau, to be of use to Chaos in a mundane fashion. And vice versa.

>> No.32087660

>>32087617
Dem feels bro
I'm going to dust of muh sanwa stick.

Have you tried undernight in-birth yet?

>> No.32087670

>>32087617
>Blizzard hasn't made a single good game since 2003
>fighting games are shit and have been for a while

covered your bases for you

>> No.32087679

>>32087554

And I'm not saying those are good competitive scenes, just that they're not as bad as 40k.

It appears we have reached a disagreeable conclusion. We must settle this with pistols at dawn!

>> No.32087692

>More regarding the stuff posted earlier from the Daemons blog:
>A small correction on the Psychic Powers. The defending player must roll a number of sucesses equal to the sucesses rolled by the casting player. So if I cast a level 1 power with three sucesses my opponet needs three sucesses to cancel it.
>Also this has not been posted but I think it might make a few people happy. Strength D has changed.
>D weapons:
>1 nothing
>2-5 D3 hull points/wounds
>6 crazy
>However Strength D no longer ignores cover/ Invuls

>> No.32087721

>>32087642
Nah, it's just that she hasn't appeared yet in any trailer or the like, i expect her to be in the succesor title.

Also, somehow 4chan just randomly deleted what i type into the captcha field for shits and giggles.

>> No.32087765
File: 2.36 MB, 1546x694, sc 2 terrans vs zerg 003.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
32087765

>>32087617
SC2 has its fun elements.

>> No.32087823

>>32087692
>However Strength D no longer ignores cover/ Invuls

And suddenly, StD weapons become a hell of a lot more reasonable. They're still extremely powerful, but can be mitigated to an extent. Good change.

>> No.32087833

>>32087692
>1 nothing

Well, good news for vehicles.

>6 crazy

How crazy?

>However Strength D no longer ignores cover

So it's shittier than the original.

>> No.32087856
File: 1.79 MB, 1458x737, sc 2 defensive terran lineup.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
32087856

>>32087765

>> No.32087862

>>32087655
Just CSM not daemons, they will use them if they think it will give them advantage but they have no particular interest in the warp or it's spawn.

>> No.32087868

>>32087765

I think what we're all missing from this thread is that even if something isn't the best of the best, or even good at all, it can still be fun.

Unless it's SC2.

>> No.32087898

>>32086937
>Jervis says you can make "interesting what-if armies" with "complete freedom"

Hah. I still remember their old rhetoric from prior editions about "realistic" and "well-rounded" armies that the comp percentages/FOC would ensure.

Let's face it, GW just churn out reasonable-sounding banalities to prop up whatever shit they're currently shovelling onto their product shelves.

And Unbound is going to prove the biggest derpfest of all time.

>> No.32087901

>>32087833
6 is probably "remove from play". But I'm just guessing.

>> No.32087926

>>32087898

We could already do that in friendly games outside of tournaments. Why did they have to break the game for it?

It's like, some people like putting ketchup on their ice cream, so they pass a federal law requiring ketchup to be put on ice cream.

>> No.32087932

>>32087862
Fine with me, my favorite thing in 40k are the daemons in the CSM book that are arguably not daemons.

>> No.32087944

>>32087868

If it's fun, it's good. End of.

>> No.32087960

>>32087901
I doubt it's that dramatic. Maybe ID/Explodes!

>> No.32087990

>>32087926
Yeah, because double force org chart was totally mandatory and used by everyone.

>> No.32087994

>>32087960
>40k
>not that dramatic
You must be new here. 40k runs on drama. It keeps Jervis Johnson alive.

>> No.32088036

>>32087994
>oh look at me, I'm being all edgy

GW hasn't done "remove from play" in a long time and D weapons don't have it even now, when they're pretty crazy. These are suppose to be nerfed D's, after all.

>> No.32088048

>>32087994
So
he's not feeding off our suffeirng
but our drama
why isn't the trying to get prom queens into the game

>> No.32088062

>>32087926

I'm guessing their logic is this:

>the customers we focus on are newcomers for their first 18 months
>we want to maximize the amount they buy in this timeframe
>if they find one unit they like and/or that wins them games, they'll buy more of it
>rules that limit those units therefore limit sales
>if we remove the rules limitations we'll sell more of those popular units

>> No.32088079

>>32088048
I'm sure he feeds on a range of emotions. All Chaos gods do.

>> No.32088312

>>32085763
How would farsights enclaves special wargear work then?

>> No.32088378

>>32088312
No fuggin' clue. I'm just reposting rumors.

>> No.32088462

>>32088378
I hope it becomes every dtw roll you roll 4 dice for it. Lets roll all the dice!

>> No.32088519

I'm feeling a little dissapointed after that first WD image dropped that we didn't get anymore.

>> No.32088673

How would you fix 40k, /tg/?

>> No.32088727

>>32088673
Burn it to ashes and start over. Throw out the concept of a FOC, recost everything using a standardized metric and then go from there.

>> No.32088790

>>32088727
I dunno, I like the -IDEA- of the FOC.

It's a recognition that the power of a combination of units is greater than the sum of its parts.

>> No.32088806

>>32088790
I say screw it. It's getting in the way of a number of fluffy lists and is prompting people to get their panties twisted.

>> No.32088839

>>32088806
>It's getting in the way of a number of fluffy lists

Agreed. But I think, in concept, the FOC is supposed to enforce fluffy lists, not prevent them.

>> No.32088855

>>32088839
Then the FOC is horribly broken as it fails to meet that concept.

>> No.32088868

>>32088855
I don't disagree. Like I said, it's the IDEA of the FOC that I like.

I think it could be fixed.

>> No.32088975

Will this work with allied detachments too? What about forge world?

>> No.32089083

>>32088673
Stop selling rules. Give them out free. Sell the hard-copy version of the rulebooks for a small profit, sell a quality-of-life version app (with free updates) for a few bucks, but release a PDF free on the website.

Update rules and codices more frequently. Fix glaring problems and loopholes regularly, fix balance and add new rules/options at least once every six months per army. Allow fan input and suggestions on rules, although that is not the same as allowing the fans to dictate what the rules will be. Re-open the forums.

Flesh out a separate set of rules for smaller engagements, ala Fireteams, or whathaveyou. Something that allows people to experience fun and/or competitive play with solid rules, without a $200+ army.

Eliminate as much corporate overhead as possible. Take the entire company private, if possible.

>> No.32089522

>>32089083
Along with this, release codices in pairs. Each codex pair also has an associated starter set, similar to Battle For Macragge. Keep up this release pattern until every army in the game is represented in a starter set.

Now that the secondary market is flooded with the core units of every army in the game, more people can get into the game for cheaper. This means more people buying units that aren't represented in the starter kits, which means profits

>> No.32089824

>>32083487
Loyalist codex is also for recently turned traitor or renwgade marinea. Them summoning deamons makea perfect sense. Its like how IG being able too allie with chaos works but Cadians would never work with chaos.

>> No.32089971

>>32089824
Explain why they aren't Desperate/Convenient allies with Chaos Daemons, then.

>> No.32090017

>>32089971
Space Gypsies did it.

>> No.32090918

>>32089824
>>32089971
Tyrant of Badab list is an addon to Codex: Loyalist Faggot Smurfs, not Codex: Glorious Spikey Horned Master Race.

As to why daemons aint allied: its because, um... its a hell of a lot of work to get to the point that daemons aren't out to fuck you over as well, I guess.

Oh well, glad Malifica will soon be a thing!

>> No.32090947

I sense wardism in the force

>> No.32091028

>>32090947
Doubtful, he claimed last year at Games Day that he wasn't touching 40k directly for a while. And what little we've seen from him (Battle Focus) wasn't bad but not implimented by him, just tossed out as an idea.

>>
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