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31620118 No.31620118 [DELETED]  [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

Hey /tg/. First visit here. I apologize in advance for offending any of your more experienced sensibilities.

I'm GMing for the first time for a group of my friends, mostly 1st/couple 2nd time players. Pathfinder in a month or so. All mid-20's, casual, mixed genders.

Barely played before. I'm a dropout fiction writing major/current game design major, and I've played too many virtual RPG's to name. Also listened to Nerd Poker, Critical Hit and HarmonTown(haha). I've read the Core Rulebook and much of the Game Mastery Handbook.

I'm pretty confident in my writing and world design, etc. and have a rudimentary grasp of the rules. But, any tips for a first time GM insofar as presentation, communication, memorization and anything else are concerned? It'd be much appreciated. Thanks anyways.

>> No.31620137

Obligatory:

>D&D

>> No.31620144

>game design major

How does it feel to fail in life?

>> No.31620168

>>31620144
If he is doing a course similar to mine he can also become a software engineer if game design fails

>> No.31620189

>>31620168

>wannabee CS students get hired to software engineering

Employers don't want the second best thing, especially in the current economical climate.

>> No.31620210
File: 330 KB, 1278x1600, i-wanna-be-the-dm-02.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
31620210

>>31620118
>But, any tips for a first time GM insofar as presentation, communication, memorization and anything else are concerned?

> Read a lot
> Talk a lot
> Steal from movies, books, comic books
> Read about conflict management
> Carry some paper & pen/tablet/smartphone, scribe down all good ideas you might get
> Use Internet services supporting DMs job

>> No.31620223

>>31620189
Good point, but I'm Australian so my situation is a bit better here

>> No.31620726

>>31620144
eh. feels pretty good. i've got all kinds of skills and no particular interest in seeking a job on the market any time soon. my family is fairly wealthy and i know some people who are interested in private investment in my independent/small-scale projects.
i have very good test scores and plenty of cash so i could pursue another course of education if i desired. but i don't need a piece of paper from that encourages rich assholes to purchase me at a higher price

>> No.31620748

>>31620210
thanks to the only person who take the time to advice. conflict management is probably a good idea... we have some bf/gf action and one person that nobody is terribly fond of

>> No.31620766

>>31620748
also english is not my first language so i apologize for any miscommunication

>> No.31620780

>>31620726

>I'm not even trying to be employed and my parents will fund my life as an "entrepreneur"

You sound like waste of air.

>> No.31620784

>>31620748
Run a one-shot then. A dynamic like that is going to tear itself apart within 3 sessions tops

>> No.31620786
File: 31 KB, 200x300, playdirty.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
31620786

>>31620748
No prob.

Actually, adventures, sourcebooks, settings, other tools are fairly easy to get. Proper conflict management is what you simply MUST learn when you try your strength as GM.

Pic related - you could seek it. While it falls under "tongue-in-cheek trolling", it's also a good study of difficult players and the way their minds work.

As for English - mine is even worse, so no stress.

>> No.31620801

>>31620780
That is a valid opinion. But what I value is creation not compensation by means of abstraction. Every artist has patrons, mine are my family's rich friends and my dead grandfather. I have no shame in this, and I don't imagine your opinion means a great deal more to me than mine does for you.

>> No.31620802

>>31620780
Not OP, but food for thought Anon: people with that degree of hate make no good players/DMs. You can think you have that under control, but do you?

It's obvious you don't like PFRPG, so staying here is like self-flagellation.

>> No.31620817

>>31620118

Switch systems

>> No.31620831

>>31620780
I came in here to read information, not an ad hominem and personal attacks. You should fuck right off.

As for OP; I've been DM'ing for a while but it's one of those skills that evolves differently depending on your players. You'll find out what works for you and the first couple games might be a little awkward. Don't try to impress, just try to package a fun game. Be prepared to scrap your notes and improvise. And you should probably write notes anyway.

Also, players grow over time, too. Don't be dissuaded until you've done it a few times.

>> No.31620842

>>31620784
Hm. Good idea. I've considered this. I imagine at least 2/6 will abandon at some point. But part of what I really love about DMing is the low-pressure, high reward storytelling opportunity. And I only enjoy telling original stories. So I will most likely continue with an original plot, but maintain very low expectations.

>> No.31620848

>>31620802

I actuall got my degree in Institutionalized Hatred, and I control my field quite sovereigningly, as matter of fact.

>> No.31620854

>>31620118
Start with something easy -and- fun. Pathfinder and Numenera are my favourite "Baby's First GMing" systems so yeah, good choice on that. Prepare, talk a lot, make some notes but not too many, try to force the PCs into your dialogues, so their creativity will boost yours. Try not to "talk to yourself" too much. Oh, and don't be a pussy, if someone dies then shit happens. Merciful GMs are boring and predictible.

>> No.31620862

>>31620831

>insult
>ad hominen

Trustfundbabby pls, I didn't even have an argument to use an ad hominen in.

>> No.31620864

>>31620817
> in b4 Numenera

>> No.31620867

>>31620817
lol. to 4e? AD&D? 3.5? Shadowrun? I had a lot of trouble picking but I felt like PF had the best balance of old-school and re-vamp. What system and what reason?

>> No.31620885

>>31620867
GURPS. You can run anything from Supers to Low Fantasy to Mecha. It gets a bad rap for being 'crunchy' but honestly its not as bad as people say.

>> No.31620888

>>31620831
Yeah. I have many many pages of notes and maps and stat blocks. Also expecting to throw that out in the first 5 minutes. Thanks for the info. Preparing my patience, both towards myself and my fellow beginners.

>> No.31620892

>>31620867
Actually, PFRPG is a very good choice. Adventure Paths alone are worth trying it.

>> No.31620894

>>31620867
FC, because it's more complex, balanced, and hasn't been broken by the minmaxers just yet because no one actually plays it,. just spouts off about the feats.

>> No.31620909
File: 109 KB, 910x719, _gurps.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
31620909

>>31620885
Predictable.

>> No.31620923

>>31620885
Ah. Well we're currently pretty set on playing D&D or PF for our first time out. I'm very open to switching sooner or later down the road, though, depending how it goes. I'll do some reading and keep it in mind, thanks.

>> No.31620956
File: 7 KB, 252x240, 1330869262626.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
31620956

>>31620909

>defending d20 as a good example of game design

I hate GURPS, but this is too much.

>> No.31620965

>>31620894
Don't even know what that is... google not being terribly helpful

>> No.31620966
File: 156 KB, 500x294, look floki.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
31620966

>>31620956
>defending d20 as a good example of game design
Is it?

>I hate GURPS,
Do you?

>> No.31620974

>>31620966

Huh?

>> No.31620987

>>31620965
I suspect it's about FATE CORE, one of modern, very interesting universal RPGs.

/tg/ dwellers are often hardcore veterans slash armchair theorists, who simply forgot how it is to be a newbie to the genre and assume that everyone knows everything + "it's all personal crusade to defend my God, my Faith and my SYSTEM".

Get used to that.

>> No.31620993

>>31620956
Don't think my friends are going to be too discerning when it comes to "Good" or "Bad" RPGs. At least at present. For the time being I am more concerned about ease of learning. I'll probably be homebrewing an insane amount as time goes on, too. Regardless of what I pick as the base system.

>> No.31621007

>>31620993

Trust check up a lot different systems and have fun.

>> No.31621011

>>31620987
yeah. I try to take everything with a grain of salt. No matter where you are, people are stubborn and defensive of their beliefs. Most often to an unwarranted extent. But that's one of my beliefs, so forget about that.

>> No.31621020
File: 1.48 MB, 1246x3869, hey-hey-i-wanna-be-the-rpg-star01.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
31621020

>>31620993
>ease of learning

Hmmmmm... You know what? Here. Skip the first part, see "OTHER ALTERNATIVES" + link underneath of that section.

I think you might be interested in DUNGEON WORLD and other RPGs featured in said link.

>> No.31621041
File: 80 KB, 737x490, oh woe.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
31621041

>>31621011
How true...

You won't fit here very good. Leave, leave this wretched place and leave us - to our misery...

>> No.31621058

>>31620867
I fucking love EH

>> No.31621062

>>31621041

>implying we don't enjoy blind hatred and digital impotent fury and cries of our enemies

Only winning move is to argue against your own beliefs ;_;

>> No.31621080

>>31621058
I'm going to give you a few pdfs.

>> No.31621086

>>31621058
PDF like a boss.
Thanks, looks cool. We're gonna start with a traditional fantasy because that's what I promised everybody and we already have characters built. But I'll remember that for sure when we decide to try something new.

>> No.31621092

>>31621080

>> No.31621096

>>31621062
> # post omitted because of smiles

>> No.31621098

>>31621080
Nice dude. Please do. You're like my Obi-Wan. Or whatever analogy you find palatable.

>> No.31621099

>>31620867

If you want fantasy and "Let's play D&D", pick Dungeon World. It's extremely easy to learn for everyone, intuitive and fun. If you play it a lot it might get a bit repetitive, but as an introductory system its excellent.

For post-apoc/sci-fi you can use its older brother Apocalypse World

If you want "your thing" or in other words a generalist system, pick something like FATE or gurps lite or whatever (I'd say away from Gurps until you get some experience though. It's a very large system)

>>31621020

This picture is basically crap because it recommends Pathfinder as an alternative and even has the nerve that Pathfinder is "good" at stuff (in fact, what Pathfinder is "good" at is merely the stuff the devs didn't manage to fuck up. An actually good system would probably do it equally good or better, and the overall quality of the system would be stronger).

We recently made a new, better recommendation picture. Anyone got it?

>> No.31621108

>>31620987
>>31620965

Actually, he's talking about FantasyCraft, which is a ground-up redesign of the D20/D&D style game with a strong narrative focus.

It's more amazing than getting a blowjob while riding a unicorn over a rainbow of dreams once you understand what you're doing, but it's also not particularly noob friendly, so I personally wouldn't recommend it.

>>31620993
>Ease of learning.

If you wanna go D20, Pathfinder. There's a beginner set, and it's pretty damn good at holding your hand until you get used to it, with all the published modules/adventure paths and such.

This guy >>31621020 also has a decent list for you.

The systems I really want to plug (Shadowrun, FantasyCraft, and GURPS) aren't exactly easy on the new guys. Lots of subsystems, intelligent interlocking of rules, and in Shadowrun's case extremely rich and detailed lore are the upsides.

Upsides that people as Green as yours wouldn't really appreciate, since they kinda require at least one or two people to know what the hell they're doing. So I'd say to keep them in mind for when/if you feel like stepping up your game, but shit like Pathfinder isn't the worst place you could start.

>> No.31621109

>>31621096

;_; is 4chan approved faggotry, my friend. Other emoticons are allowed on basis of nationality.

>> No.31621112

>>31621092
Ah, I recommended GURPS earlier. Start with this if you want to give it a go.

>> No.31621121

>>31621080
hahah. that's awesome

>> No.31621122

>>31621099
>This picture is basically crap because it recommends Pathfinder
No, Anon. This image gets nder your skin, because it features AMONG OTHER THINGS the system you don't like. That's all there is to say about that.

>>31621108
Damnation! FantasyCraft. Totally forgot about this baby...

>> No.31621132

>>31621109
> # post omitted because of smiles

>> No.31621137

>>31621112
I don't have many pdfs to be honest, most of them aren't relevant to this thread.

>> No.31621146

>>31620118
Keep the meals simple and filling with not too much fat or red meat.

>> No.31621152

>>31621137
Then what are you waiting for, Anon?

Find some links to useful systems, organize them into collection, copy+paste each time you feel like to...

>> No.31621158

>>31621108
Thanks. Yeah, Shadowrun was what I was currently planning to try next. Seemed like a pretty natural transition into interesting new territory.

>> No.31621174

>>31621137
Also google Kuro, I haven't played it but its Neo-Tokyo Cyberpunk with rules for not-godzilla and not-godzilla's foes. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2pIxX2R6VuE

>> No.31621175
File: 724 KB, 1024x1024, kuro.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
31621175

>>31621158
You know what, Anon?

Try KURO.
It's SHADOWRUN lite - fantasy races + horror.

>> No.31621185

>>31621174
>>31621175
Hivemind. Fuck yeah.

>> No.31621189

>>31621146
Metaphor accepted.


Also, general thanks to everybody in this thread. The PDFs and advice alike have been extremely informative, and I'm more excited than ever to start playing with my friends.

>> No.31621201

>>31621185
WE ARE LEGION!

Kuro is fucking awesome. I find it great alternative to both SR, CP2020 and EclipsePhase. Too bad /tg/ doesn't into cyberpunk more.

>> No.31621214

>>31621189
I'm gonna dump some stuff for when you get older. Don't even touch these things until you can run a session almost independent of the rulebook.

>> No.31621215

>>31621158

Two important things to remember for when/if you start getting into Shadowrun: Understand how the rules connect. You don't need to know every aspect, but keep some cheat-sheets on hand and try to remember how magic/meat/tech play off each other.

The other is to know the lore. Read every piece of lore you can get your hands on.

There are a lot of good resources for both, just remember to ask us about them: Cheat-sheets and lore. Those two things are so goddamn critical it's mindblowing.

>> No.31621217

>>31621175
Noted, noted. I also feel compelled to say how much more helpful and less cynical this board has been compared to my unfortunately sizeable general 4chan experience. Even with the hardheaded conflicts of opinion.

>> No.31621223
File: 190 KB, 1627x1052, 1368289386562.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
31621223

>>31621189

>> No.31621227

>>31621214

>> No.31621234
File: 1.23 MB, 1235x2892, gm tipsss.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
31621234

>>31621201
Got a link?

>> No.31621242

>>31621227
I'm serious, read this stuff before you learn to run, and you will fill your head with ideas that you simply aren't ready to do.

>> No.31621255

>>31621234
PDF anon here, I have one of it but its above file size cap. I got mine from a mediafire link that some anon posted.

>> No.31621260

>>31621223

That is one horrible chart. It offers options for very limited ammount of genres and a lot the suggestions are ancient systems no one rightly ever plays.

Also, for new players it's pretty useless as it doesn't really tell anything about the systems themselves.

>> No.31621262

>>31621234
Sure.

https://cloud.mail.ru/public/de015d750a09/Kuro

>>31621217
No prob. PFRPG was a good choice of image. System aside, its fans are usually quite nice guys, as opposite to some jihadists who can't stay other people having fun...

Sad but true...

>>31621242
Sir, allow me to express my great dissapointment. Instead of dumping PDFs, you should prepare some collection with them, organize them (Tier1: newbies, Tier2: veterans or somethin) and share a link. Therefore such gems won't simply disappear among other threads. Everyone will be able to share it...

>> No.31621265
File: 188 KB, 537x814, fail forward.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
31621265

>> No.31621276

>> No.31621282

>>31621223
Seems pretty straightforward.

>> No.31621283

>>31621262
My PDFs number at roughly 15, not worth making a collection of. Also, someone should post car lesbians.

>> No.31621285

>>31621122

Pathfinder gets a big banner and more text. It's clearly prioritized. D&D overall gets 25% of the image space.

The picture clearly has no idea what qualities actually makes a system qualified to be a good starter system.

>Well, I don't want zombies
>What's next? Oh look, Pathfinder. Look how much space it gets
>Clearly Pathfinder is the system that everyone thinks people like me (who know absolutely nothing about the medium) should start out with
>Otherwise they wouldn't spend spend so much time and space to tell me this
>It even says here pathfinder flexible and open
>(Other alternatives: Systems are described in one line such as "Adventures in the spaaaaace". Box arts are covering each other)

I mean, since the the spelling and arguments in the picture are absolutely terrible, a clever person will likely not take it seriously, but still, EUGH.

Hell, the picture even spends more space talking how you should ignore poster's response to the picture than it spends discussing alternative systems to Pathfinder! It fucking knows its bad.

>> No.31621306

>>31621242
Oh, I'm sure my head is already filled with ideas I'm not ready to do. But I wouldn't mind a few more.

>> No.31621322

I actually ran a game where magic was using that anons rune system. We made our mage have to draw the runes on paper to cast them, so the rest of the party had to hold back enemies while our mage got the circle done. Its not hard to do and its great fun, I recommend it after a couple of games OP.

>> No.31621335

>>31621322
PS: Pic related is outdated, there is a thread up with the new version.

>> No.31621348

>>31621283
You, sir, are a moron, dare I say.

Good collection of a few carefully selected PDFs beats thousands of badly named, unorganized documents.

I strongly encourage you to reconsider your approach and change your vile, modest ways. So says I, the Paladin of Libraries!

>> No.31621366

>>31621348
I'll get to it somedaymaybe

>> No.31621373

>>31621366
I assure you, it will be worth it.

>> No.31621388

>>31621373
Anything you want before I go to bed?

>> No.31621400

>>31621388
Something in space would be good. People often forget that fantasy isn't the only way.

>> No.31621402
File: 28 KB, 620x343, Untitled.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
31621402

>>31621388
forgot my pic

>> No.31621418

>>31621285
Anon, the amount of misconceptions in your comment is so big, that it makes it simply pointless to explain it to you.

This image is not for you. Accept it and get over it.

>>31621402
Audatia? Da Meanest?

I know nothing about that!

>> No.31621437

>>31621348
Don't be mean to my PDF friend! But also, sharing is caring. So yeah.

>> No.31621438

>>31621418
>This image is not for you. Accept it and get over it.
Then I hope it's not for RPG-newbs either.

>> No.31621449

>>31621255
Do you still have the mediafire link? I'd really like to check it out

>> No.31621456

>>31621418
Audatia is a card game that simulates medieval battlefield duelling. >>31618839

Da Meanest is a anons homebrew RPG to play as Da Orkz

>> No.31621459

>>31621437
Truth needs to be told! Humble ones won't access the Kingdom of Lord!

>>31621438
Au contraire. Accept it, get over it.

>> No.31621468

>>31621456
Much obliged, based Anon.

>> No.31621474

>>31621468
No worries. Any more requests before I leave?

>> No.31621487

>>31621449
>>31621262

>> No.31621489

>>31621474
OP is good. Thanks again for the contribution

>> No.31621490
File: 314 KB, 2400x1350, z_gandulf.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
31621490

>>31621474
The rest I have. Thank you. You are hereby released and may go back to the Abyss, kind demon Bro.

>> No.31621512

>>31621459
I agree with the poster. If you are going to make an image like that you need to give things that are seen as equal equal attention. For example explain more about 4e, 3.5e, PF, FATE, and so on. If the systems are seen as equal then treat them so.

>> No.31621513

>>31621487
Whoops, thanks.

>> No.31621516

>>31621487
I have better.
http://pastebin.com/surY9qnb

>> No.31621519

Another Pathfinder newbie question.

How long does a summoned creature last if the duration says 3 rounds? Does that mean that the creature will diseapear after doing 3 rounds of actions or will it diseapear after 3 rounds pass.

I was warned that at early levels natures ally isn't all that useful but it doesn't make sense to me that if there are more participants in the battle the creature that I summon would be present in the battle for less time.

>> No.31621533

>>31621512
How do YOU understand "OTHER ALTERNATIVES" section?

>> No.31621553

>>31621519
The creature sticks around for 3 rounds then vanishes, indepedant of action or inaction. Do note that summon spells usually have a casting time of 1 full round, so you start casting the spell and in your next round the creature appears and it then figts for 3 rounds.

>> No.31621691

>>31621533
I'm not talking about the OTHER section.
From the perspective of people outside /tg/, D&D and PF are the only things they might know about. While /tg/ can see the system as beginner friendly, someone without a good amount of /tg/ experience will assume they are more complicated. A proper image should treat the things they know from popular culture as equals and give a balanced non-biased view on them. You can still even give them the not noob friendly bit, but you need to mention and discuss them as equals instead of being biased.

For example:
4e is better for people starting out, but is the rules are more explicit in regards to combat. You can still RP with it but it seems to be more open and freeform, it will be up to the DM/GM to determine what is possible. Not as popular as 3.5e or PF, so games might be harder to find. All classes have a function in and out of combat and are relatively balanced.

PF is more rules heavy and a bit more complicated, but has more rules covering different mechanics of RPing. Expect and plan for players to take their time to get used to the system and it's internals. Has a large community and is fairly popular, but /tg/ views some of the designers and their decisions as backwards and idiotic. Be prepared to have /tg/ yell at you to play something else. Note, not all classes are equal in the hands of experienced players.

I prefer my "guide" images to be more balanced. Other than that it's a pretty good image.

>> No.31621707

>>31621553

May I clarify just a little bit, still not sure I get it?

The creature doesn't just vanishes after lets say 3 other creatures go through their round, right?

My first time GM is under the assumption that you count all the rounds that happen and not just the creatures duration rounds.

>> No.31621750

>>31621707
uhhh a round is not a single series of actions. a round is every character's action in one initiative turn. at least if what i've understood through my reading is accurate. so the summon would last until (i assume the end of) the caster's turn who originally summoned it, barring any delays. in which case it would end on the initiative tick the caster previously held.

buuut i'm OP so i've barely player, just read an assload

>> No.31621791

>>31621691
**see other systems as beginner friendly.

>> No.31622122
File: 126 KB, 456x447, verily.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
31622122

>>31621691
I appreciate the suggestion, Anon, but the image, despite not being PROPER accordingly to some people, is as proper as I want it to be (aside of those damned text-errors I find every once and a while).

With that in mind, I see no reason to change the message, because why should I? Veterans from /tg/ are not its recipients and since they usually lack the courtesy to read it any further than [SYSTEM I DON'T LIKE INSTEAD OF THE ONE I LIKE: OUTRAGEOUS], and understand The Big Picture, it's obvious they won't accept it, no matter what arguments I'd use.

And just FYI: OTHER ALTERNATIVES was written especially for that purpose. It explains what to do if none from 3 suggested systems is good enough to try. I feel that most of people who complain on it, never made to that point.

Well, such is life. Such is life...

>> No.31622155

>>31621707
During combat there are two distinctive units - one is a round, in which everyone gets to act on their initiative count.
The other is your turn, which you get on your initiative count. This is when you can take most of your actions.
A summoned creature sticks around for 3 rounds, starting from your initiative.

Lets say it's a battle with 3 people - BigEvil, Heroicus and you, Wizardude. At the beginning of combat, each of you rolls initiative, which is as follows:
Wizardude: 16
BigEvil: 12
Heroicus: 3
Now the first ROUND starts and on initiative count 16 your TURN starts: you decide to cast summon monster, which will take your whole round.
On initiatve 12 BigEvils TURN starts and he charges Heroicus. Following that on initiative 3, Heroicus retaliates.
This concludes ROUND ONE. Off to ROUND TWO.
On initiative 16 your summon spell is finished and a summoned creature appears for 3 rounds. This means it will stick around from round two to round 4 (3 rounds total, 2,3,4). It immediately gets to act on it's TURN, and charges BigEvil. Wizardius decides to do wizard stuff on his TURN.
BigEvil and Heroicius smack each other further.
The fight lasts until ROUND FOUR. At the beginning of ROUND FOUR,on initiative count 16, the summoned creature can take one last TURN and then vanishes, having stuck around for 3 rounds on initiative count 16.^

>> No.31622175

>>31622122
You're still a terrible person for suggesting 3.PF to beginners, even if they are your target audience.

>> No.31622183

>>31622175
There's no 3.5 suggested in that image.

>> No.31622220

>>31622122
Yeah. I don't know. I just don't feel like you play fair with the layout or the attention you give PF in regards to the /tg/ mentality. But I feel that your "THIS IS MERELY A SUGGESTION" bit at the bottom should be at the top in bold and neon colors. Specially since you are mentioning /tg/ in the title. Yeah.

>> No.31622229

>>31622183
That's why I wrote 3.PF.

Furthermore, what always gets me is that in these threads people can cite a myriad of reasons not to play 3.PF, but on the other hand, there are no reasons given to start up a new group with it.

>> No.31622236

>>31622220
**I feel [..].
But other than that it's a fairly good image since it's the first of it's kind on here that isn't more of a mapping.

>> No.31622276

>>31622229
People new to RPGs want the authentic feel and assume D&D will give them that feeling. When the research they find a large portion of the D&D community flocked to PF/3.5e, and thus propagate the idea that those are the classical starting materials.

>> No.31622306

>>31622229
Well, it's Spencer Crittenden's system of choice. If that's not good enough for you, I don't care what is.

>> No.31622326

>>31622276

"People make false assumptions and are lied to" isn't a very compelling reason. I know it's the actual reason, but that doesn't excuse furthering it.

>> No.31622329

>>31622276
But the people that specifically come here and ask for advice on which system to start out their own group aren't bound to that.
Here on /tg/ we don't need to "propagate" them as "classical" starting materials, because we could actually suggest systems that help out new groups.

>> No.31622354

>>31622326
>>31622329
I know guys, which is why I am telling the guy who wrote the image to give it a more balanced approach. But seeing his reaction I was just going to layout and make my own image with a more balanced approach them post another thread.

>> No.31622368

>>31622220
Anon, PFRPG is actually quite strong on /tg/. Let me remind you how alive board becomes each time there's a new supplement being introduced.

It rivals the attention new WH40k and Magic supplements get.

And no. I treat potential recipients as intelligent, openminded people, who understand the meaning of "not objective suggestion". I hope it's sufficient.

>>31622229
There's a list of "cons" and "pros" regarding PFRPG. I think they are substantial and they explain both "why not" and "why yes", leaving the choice to the reader.

>> No.31622380

>>31622276
OP here, this somewhat accurately depicts my decision.

My GM friend who was too busy to take the session swears by Pathfinder, so it's the only one any of us have had experience in. Also we definitely wanted something in the D&D vein, and my PCs who actually care are for some reason averse to 4E. So it seemed the reasonable choice.

>> No.31622427

>>31622276
It is a good starting point.

Funny thing is: nobody forces anyone to stay in same spot for all eternity, especially not in the year of Our Lord 2014th, where finding alternatives both commercial and free is extra easy.

>> No.31622457

>>31622380
And now you're here and we can tell you that everything ranging from AD&D to 13th Age to FantasyCraft to Dungeon World to maybe even FATE/GURPSlite/SavageWorlds are better options.

>> No.31622472

>>31622427
>It is a good starting point.
Why? Where do you get that notion from?

>> No.31622521

>>31622368
No one said it's not popular, but plenty say and tout it's issues. From someone who has been in OPs position and with a strong background in design the "not objective suggestion" is barely noticeable when the text above it is in BOLD RED and right below it is SEPIA TONED ZOMBIES. People skim a ton on the internet. Guides are assumed to be objective and thus when they are not they should EXPLICITLY label themselves as such in a clear and noticeable manner.

>> No.31622524

>>31622457
Well, you can.
Others will tell me the opposite.
I didn't come here asking what system to play. Only for general GMing advice.
I am more than capable of deciding which system I prefer. PF is where I have decided to start. I will very likely try several other systems in the relatively near future.

>> No.31622558

>>31622524
>I will very likely try several other systems in the relatively near future.
Let's hope your group doesn't turn into the "No 3.PF - no game"-type.

>> No.31622626

>>31622558
Eh. If we do, it'll be because we're all having a lot of fun playing it. I don't see why I'd hope against that.

But realistically, I like to explore my options. Generally speaking, my favorite things are those I have yet to experience.

>> No.31622656
File: 1.47 MB, 1246x3869, hey-hey-i-wanna-be-the-rpg-star02.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
31622656

>>31622472
People I play with, people I talk with who play, people sharing their testimonies of their RPG experience.

PFRPG is being played by people all across the globe. There are accounts of people playing with their wives, girlfriends, kids (some even as young as 10 years).

Bonus: you will have not much trouble finding people playing it, so there's always someone there to help you, show ropes, advise, explain, attend your session.

Yeah, I think it's a good starting point.

>>31622521
> sepia, red
Actually, sepia is dictated by AFMBE:
http://www.allflesh.com/orderinfo.html
...but no prob, here you are.

I'm expecting you to be more supportive now, heh, heh, heh...

>> No.31622712

>>31622626
>Eh. If we do, it'll be because we're all having a lot of fun playing it.
Let's hope that will turn out to be true as well.

>> No.31622719
File: 43 KB, 150x150, thumb up elf.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
31622719

>>31622626
>If we do, it'll be because we're all having a lot of fun playing it. I don't see why I'd hope against that.

>> No.31622748

>>31622712
Yeah.. my group is way to casual to become system snobs. I'm pretty much gonna be the only person there who actually understands the system. It will center around roleplay and storytelling. Also drinking. So if we're having a good time and it's working smoothly we may stick with it for awhile. But if it's boring or stale or otherwise unsatisfying, even for a single person, I'm sure we'd all be willing to try something else, as we're all old friends.

>> No.31622773

>>31622748
Ah you should have said that earlier. You're the kind of group that can actually play 3.PF.

>> No.31622843

>>31622626
Just be warned going in not everyone is equal when it comes to classes and you should be fine. Read up on the tiers regarding classes. This is often the biggest issue people have. Some classes leave others in the dust at different points in the game. Other than that have fun. It's not a bad system and will give you hours of fun. Also the d20pfsrd is a great resource.

>>31622656
I think you misunderstood my point about the zombies, I meant that they took attention from you mentioning that the guide was subjective.

But it's definitely better now. Also upon rereading your guide I noticed you give the reader a friendly warning about people being subjective with their advice, in a subjective guide. Bit of irony right there buddy.

>> No.31622885

>>31620118
A.) Have the story written out but not concrete
B.) Wing it
C.) Fix the problems with pathfinder so your group doesn't suffer.

>> No.31622887

>>31622773
Glad to hear it. I'd hate to have to convert all these Character Sheets and stat blocks before getting to use them

>> No.31622933

Gonna rep. Savage Worlds. It's lower crunch than DnD, and cuts away a lot of chaff.

>> No.31622939

>>31622843
> Bit of irony right there buddy.
Only if you think that the author of pic is treating his words as seriously, as typical PFRPG naysayer seems to do.

Which isn't the case, I assure you.

>> No.31622952

>>31622939
Not really, just anyone that assumes that any guide is objective.

>> No.31622974

>>31622952
Well, such people are determined to miss good half of fun world has to offer.

>> No.31622980

>>31622843
Yeah, it already seems to me that, say, a high level wizard might have all kinds OP stuffs. But I doubt we'll make it all the way to 20, and I'll do my best to compensate via magic item dispensing and weird story related character skillbilities
>>31622885
pretty much the plan, building lots of general concepts into an open map and letting them decide where to take it. already have some theoretical home rules and such... though we'll see how those go considering my lack of practice

thanks again to y'all for the experienced perspectives

>> No.31623011
File: 636 KB, 1260x874, fantasy and shit.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
31623011

>>31622980
>thanks again to y'all for the experienced perspectives
Our pleasure.

>> No.31623041

>>31622887
Just don't... Just don't ever care too much for the rules, okay? Keep it going fast and if you're not sure what to do, remember that the basic concept of the d20 system works quite well. Just let them roll a d20+modifiers (be it a skill, attack roll or whatever) to beat a certain DC (common DCs are 10 for regular stuff, 15 for medium difficulty and 20 for hard stuff).

>> No.31623064
File: 51 KB, 195x195, rage.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
31623064

>>31623041
> mfw Anon creates the ULTIMATE BEGINNER BOX

>> No.31623091

>>31622974
Anything in my book that touts itself as a guide for people with little experience should be objective, IMO. For subjective opinions, I would ask an individual or group of them like the OP did.
So a subjective guide is a bit of irony in my book, but if it touts itself as subjective I'm okay with it.

>>31622980
The class disparity starts a lot earlier than the teens, just be warned. Other than that you seem to be on your way to become a good GM. Hope your game goes well.

>> No.31623146

>>31623064
Actually those are pretty quick and almost spot on guidelines on how to just fudge stuff.
The less you get involved with the rules the better, but at some point you'll want to resolve something with a diceroll. Then you can apply that.

>> No.31623169

>>31623091
Thanks. I'll keep a watchful eye for sudden shifts in the power dynamic.
>>31623041
Got it. Rules bad, dice good.

>> No.31623243

Hey OP sorry I'm late

Just remember that being a GM is 10% structured writing and 90% bullshitting and making stuff up on the fly.

If you doubt your abilities to make stuff up as needed don't try to do anything long-term until you get better at it.

I find the best way to do things is to create a world, create people of stature in the world, and then drop the players into it and describe what happens based on their actions. Don't try to railroad to hard, because more often then not your players will try their absolute hardest to derail themselves even if they're not even aware that they're doing it. If you write out a complex story based entirely on what you assume the players will do it WILL fail. Always assume that your players are going to act in unexpected ways, and by no means attempt to write a story entirely around what you predict will happen.

>> No.31623253
File: 37 KB, 500x379, fuck this shit.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
31623253

>>31623091
You know what irony is?

Usually people sperg over PFRPG and try to hide it behind the argument that this image is far from being objective, even if it openly states it's an expression of subjective opinion/suggestion etc.

And you know what they counteract it with?

Systems of their choice. Obviously subjectively picked.

Rules hard systems, esoteric ones, homebrews that don't even show in first 1000 of Google links, systems nobody plays, systems nobody knows, systems long time gone, systems that are not there (Kickstarter), systems so hard to get, that it renders them almost impossible to play if you don't already own them.

Yep, people see no problem in their own subjectivity, but they stigmatize lack of objectivity, like the future of world depends on its presence.

Now THAT'S irony, if I ever did see one.

>> No.31623276

>>31623169
>Thanks. I'll keep a watchful eye for sudden shifts in the power dynamic.
For first time players, it probably won't be a huge problem. As far as I know, the issues with power disparity in 3.x are generally
- new players accidentally making characters that are absolutely useless (this should be easy to avoid, but it happens sometimes), and
- experienced players being able to make well-optimized casters who blow everybody else out of the water.
Like you say, keep it in mind, but unless your players are designing their characters and playing them very aggressively, you shouldn't let it worry you.

>> No.31623313

>>31623276
Just look out for druids, and any class with animal companions in general.

>> No.31623502

>>31623243
I'm definitely fighting my nature a bit not expanding on these plots concepts I have unto infinity. But I'm instead working to expand the world and create many story roots.
>>31623276
Yeah. I give advice during character creation, encouraging personal taste but also guiding stat allocation and whatnot, so it shouldn't be too huge a problem either way. And as I say before, if there is the OP characters get crummier items for a bit. Or I'll accidentally make a way-too-hard encounter by way of overcompensation and get a TPK. Either way should be fun.

>> No.31623570

>>31623253
Um. I think you are taking me for a troll or some diabolical PF hater. I just have a pet peeve of things that are subjective being touted as objective. I personally play PF all the time. And if you look through all of my post you will see I never turned the OP away from PF.

I was just trying to give you criticism to improve your guide so others don't continuously badger you when you post it. The irony I brought up was to make a point that it seemed a bit excessive to state that opinions should be taken with a grain of salt within a subjective guide.

I went through all my post, and while critical of PF. I never said that it was bad-wrong-fun, just that it has issues that aren't equally addressed in the image making it biased therefore subjective, and therefore triggering my pet peeve. That's all. Since you are making your guide subjective instead of objective all of my criticism seems to be directed at your opinion, but it's not it's literally at the layout and presentation.

Please don't be butthurt, I was just trying to help you out before some of the more vocal members of this board flamed your guide to hell.

>> No.31623640

>>31623253
I wouldn't call "proven problems with the game's math" subjective, but oh well, everyone is entitled to their "opinion", right?

>> No.31623682

>>31623570
*within a subjective guide, which made it seem like it was presenting itself as more objective than it should be.
**but it's not it's literally directed at the layout and presentation.

>> No.31623793

>>31622368
>PFRPG is actually quite strong on /tg/.
It's not as popular as you think it is. Do you want to know why PF threads hit autosage? It's not because their fanbase on /tg/ is huge, it's because their fanbase says something dumb that causes the PF hate force to come out and complain about PF in most PF threads, which provokes the first group to say even more dumb shit(Warblades are spellcasters? Fucking really?). There's even a dedicated troll who will fuck up DSP threads by posting inane garbage and lies, which is why those threads always hit the post cap if he's around.

If nothing that triggers that back and forth between those two groups happens, it takes something like 2 days for a PF thread to hit autosage, and that's if it's a general PF thread. If it's a more specialized thread it'll fall off the board long before hitting autosage.

>> No.31623902

>>31623793
>>31623682
>>31623640
Gentlemen, gentlemen, please.
STFU or GTFO
Thank you kindly.

OP

>> No.31623921

>>31623902
no thanks.

>> No.31623940

>>31623921
YES I SAID SO AND YOUR GAMES ARE BAD

>> No.31624160

>>31623570
>think you are taking me for a troll or some diabolical PF hater.
Far from it. I find most of your points valid, but the language barrier makes it hard to explain "what and how".

I simply find it ironic that people often sperg over what they themselves do.

>>31623793
>It's not as popular as you think it is.
It is. Check PFRPG threads - each gets some answers, mostly relevant, mostly valid.

>> No.31624331

>>31620786
I hate this fucking book, its full of passive agressive bullshit, but mostly the fact that all his solutions imply that you play like twice at week for months at the time, nigga, if I had that time to play I wouldnt need a book about DMing.

>> No.31624438

>>31620867
I would recomend you a easier system like Savage Worlds, Acelerated FATE or something old school like Labryint Lord or Rogue,Warrior, Wizard, just for the fact that you are Starting.


But mostly I would recomend you to be ready to switch systems to acomodate for player tastes, if they want more roleplaying, more plot control, if they need more hooks in the systems or they need more tactical games, research the system that would help you.

Pathfinder is OK if players have some investment in the game rules.

>> No.31624491

>>31624160
What language barrier?

>> No.31624519

>>31624491
The one, which I find so hard to cross, of course.

>> No.31624545

>>31620780
>muh usefulness to society

Enjoying the boot?

>> No.31624582

>>31624438
Thanks some others mentioned Savage Worlds, it looks pretty interesting. I'll be sure to read up on it more. I'm definitely all about accommodating the players and providing a fun experience for everybody, so I'm very flexible personally. Pathfinder just seemed like the best place to start for our group

>> No.31624639

>>31624582
I say it from personal experience mostly, I started with 3.5 but I was Really invested in reading all that could grab.

some time ago I started other friends with pathfinder, they where having funs with all the abilities and stuff, but where much more interested in his character histories and roleplaying than the game rules, so I prefered to change to Savage Worlds for a easier work in the prep of the game session and more flexibility of action description.

>> No.31624744

>>31624639
Yeah that might be right for us. I intend to be fairly flexible with the PF rules as it is. We'll see how it goes, but I don't except or desire this to be a particularly rule-centric game.

>> No.31624780

>>31624744
I find Savage worlds to be faster in general. Less modifiers to add usually. For PF/d20 games, ease of play seems to be a secondary concern.

Not that they are terribly clunky to play...

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