/tg/ - Traditional Games

bump.

>>31244119

>>31244119
Generally, what you need is lots of rank and file models (which can be low quality, like from Mantic games), and some better models for characters/heroes, which can be from Reaper, Gamezone, or Warthrone

>>31244201

Is this bullshit?

>>31244119
Ebay, and chinaman.

>>31244119
You're pretty retarded for a historical wargamer.

Mantic.

>>31244210

Cheers that's put me on the right path.

I'm finding it difficult to find miniatures for the Empire though... anyone know of any good early renaissance 28mm miniatures?

>>31244298
Perry, Foundry, Pro Gloria, Artizan. Anyone that makes landsknechte.

Than don't play the hobby
It takes time and money, but it really is fun.
I like side dealers too for special units (mainly females, who GW fucks up bad) but still support the mother company

You might be able to recast a regular sprue, if you're willing to shell out for a casting kit and the citadel set once

>>31244345
>but still support the mother company

Fuck your 'mother company', I'm not paying those ridiculous prices for miniatures when I could easily do so with a cheaper alternative.

I've already supported them by purchasing the rule books, and that's more than enough. I don't owe Gamesworkshop anything, and certainly do not think it's "really fun" to spend more than is necessary.

>>31244119
Orc army - em4 plastics, grab a huge bunch of green stuff and go to town, add reaper bones for river trolls and such, goblins from mantic.
You can also go full orcs with mantic but personally I don't really like their faces (2serious4me).
Empire - Perry Bros plastics

While you're at it, play other games

>actually suggesting mantic for anything other than zombies
disgusting

>>31244223
No. Chinaman is real, and he's strong, and he's your friend.

>>31244119
>wanting to play fantasy while being a historicaller
What the fuck were you playing before? "Who can stab the other guy with the bayonet models first?" "Try not to tread on the pikes in the dark"? Damn son.

Empire is easy to get for, you use historicals you plonker. Perry has a good selection of plastics like WotR which has pikes, guns and bows in abundance. Orcs ain't so easy.

Ebay, zhanchui or yoymart (which is a reseller I believe, I don't know the price difference, they're most likely higher than zhanchui since he's a reseller but yoymart has free shipping so I'm fine with that, it's still better than GW).

>>31244223
recently got a load of tau from him, would have cost £300 from gw, cost me £70 from him.
The resin is really good and easy to work with, although you might get aids is you breath in too much of the dust.

>>31244373
I really want to do this but I don't know how much better it is than chinaman, like, it's a skill, you'll only improve casting by practicing and this means that you're going to have failures, seems like you need to put a lot of effort to make good casts and I simply do not know the price per miniature you would get if you cast them yourself.

Whats the problem with buying models from GW? Stop being poor little twat, this is a "hobby", aka a thing you do that costs money. Quit buying knock off models, as the mother company doesnt get profit and thus model prices stay high

>>31244382
But, if you're not in it for the models, then what ARE you playing this for? The game rules are bloody terrible, surely there are way better alternatives.

Outside of historicals and on a per model basis, GW's prices are pretty middle of the road. They get you with the high model count needed to play the game so you'll be spending a shitload of money either way.

>>31244816
>as the mother company doesnt get profit and thus model prices stay high
This is a bullshit excuse.
GW has historically raised prices at a rate that outpaced inflation, and that was BEFORE counterfeiting was a big thing.
GW will NOT lower prices. Why would they? You're paying $50 for some plastic men that aren't even assembled.

>>31244119
>Wants to play warhammer
>Doesn't want to pay prices


Ebay.

Seriously, just fucking Ebay that shit. Especially big army lots. You tend to get massive discounts on shit because alot of people want to sell armies for £300 or so but the main audience won't have that kind of money to throw down in a large chunk (but will happily spend £800 over the year). Thusly you get massive savings in the long term.

Example:

Boxes still on sprue / partially assembled
8x Night Goblin Regiment on sprue
10x Goblin Wolf Riders on sprue (no wolves though)
12x Orc Warriors Regiment on sprue another 10 are made up already
20x Goblin Regiment.
38x Night Goblin Spear Regiment
27x Night Goblin Archers
24x Night Goblin Spider Riders
30x Orc Arrer Boyz - Some still on Sprue.
4 x Night Goblin Fanatics
2 x Night Goblin Squig Hoppers
12- 15 Spearbobos with nets / spears / bows.
1x Borgut Facebeater - needs reglue on arm
1 x Warhammer Giant and sprue accessories + Metal Heads
1 x Orc Warboss On War Boar.
1x Goblin Big Boss On Gigantic Spider - Metal - Needs Regluing / Pinning (Fiddly)
3x Metal Snotlings Bases ( with another 3-4 bases worth unpainted metal ones in a bag)
1 x Snotling pump wagon (older metal version)
Orc Boar Chariot
2x Skull Pass Trolls
11x Black Orc
10 - 15 orcs on sprue and lots of bitz / bitz sprues

For 300 of your Elizabeth's you can own all that. Dip that shit in Isopropyl Alcohol 99.9% for half an hour and scrub with toothbrush. Then enjoy building the shit still on spure - you now have an orc army.

>>31244816
Yea, because if everyone buys from GW the prices are going to drop, right? Seriously, how dumb can you be.

>>31244816
>Stop being poor little twat, this is a "hobby", aka a thing you do that costs money.

You have a very perverted sense of the word "hobby".

WARGAMING is a hobby, buying models at extortionate prices from a particular company is not.

Stop being a total fanboy for once in your life and get with it.

>>31244223

>>31244996
>implying other wargames don't have people paying top dollar for their models when cheaper alternatives are available

>>31244119
I'm selling a big ass Orc army if you are interested

>>31244978
If everybody stops buying from GW the price might go up because they find themselves making less money and they know their audience will eat it all up anyway? Just saying..

>>31244996
>>31244978
>>31244956
All this asshurt.
>NUH UH YOURE SO WRONG FAGGOT FAN BOY, HUEEERRRHHHHH

>>31245058
>Ausfailia

>>31245090
I was wondering why everything was upside down yet not falling.

>>31245075

>>31245090
>>31245108
This any better?

>>31244816
Well this moron has no idea how supply and demand works. Bootleg is literally the only thing keeping prices down, if we all buy from GW exclusively they are actually more free to ram us in the ass.

>>31245202
Nice support-less comment there jug head. This also hurts the guys who keep the battle bunkers open via sales of models. Way to fuck over the little guy, faggot. Its literally inflation by fake models, the same thing with fake money

>>31245228
No moron if you only have one supplier the demand increases (along with it price). This means they are free to charge anything but if the demand falls they have to drop the asking price.

It's not baseless, it's economics 101 also get a FLGS you corporate whore.

>people actually implying that people should buy stuff from GW
>implying GW doesn't rip off its long term consumer base by jacking up prices annually and solely focuses on newfag players.
>implying people should support company's who mistreat the consumer.
>mfw this thread.

>>31245311
For the past years since Warhammer came up the price has been going up, but has recently come down with the new models they are putting out that also have nicer details. Now if there are 3 other guys putting out duplicates for a lower price, people buy their models more than yours, which means you cant pay employees and costs for making your models, and even if you lower your price just enough to where you can break even, it may not be as low as your half-baked competitors and just ends up with your profits getting to shit.

>Aka stop being a whiny little faggot and stop hurting the mother corporation who has to fight tooth and nail in a niche market

>>31244119
>knows for a fact they can be bought cheaper
>hasnt actually seen anyplace that sells cheaper

>>31244223
No, but I don't know if he sells Fantasy stuff.

>>31245370
Sorry, I couldn't hear you over the slurping sounds you're making on that corporate dick.

>>31245370
>the price of Warhammer has recently come down
Wut.

>the mother corporation
Oh, I see, you're rusing! Carry on, friend.

>>31244119
>I play historical wargames
>Can anyone suggest alternatives for Empire
All of my wat.

>Orcs
Harder. Not sure. Is Mantic even much cheaper anymore?

>>31245370

Arguing with /tg/ about GW prices is like arguing with a wall. They're not willing to actually go look and see for themselves that GW's prices are pretty standard compared to most other non-historical miniature companies.

>>31245535
>>31245506
>>31245487
>>31245370
No, the anon has a point. The prices have come down a good, solid amount, the game is finding new foot holds in a larger and more interested market as people mature, and they are on paar with other modeling companies, they just appear to have sand in their vaginas for some unknown reason

>ITT: Poor man children on autism bucks cant afford GW Models

>>31245535
Thats because they're so overpriced they've created a huge gap for other competitors to step into.

Its like Apple and Samsung. Samsung could undercut Apple hugely... but why would they? Apple have set a nice high baseline price. So Samsung can produce phones in the same ballpark and take pretty much all of that as profit.

If GWs prices were sharper there'd be a lot less competition in their niche because theres less scope for rampant profiteering.

>>31245584
>The prices have come down a good, solid amount
Do you... have an example?

>>31245706
No, i dont keep my receipts from 7 years ago when i started this. You're stubborn ass is going to just have to take an old veterans word.

>>31245329
Than why are you playing their game and fluff?
Don't kill the corperation that gives you the game in the first place.

Look at TSR, when it died it went to WoTC (Hasbro) and ruined D&D

>>31245670

If there prices were what /tg/ thought was "reasonable", they'd lose money on every single sale.

Seriously, the majority of /tg/ doesn't know their ass from their head when it comes to prices. Seriously believing that for example, it costs GW $5 to make and Land Raider and they $70 profit off of it, where in all likelihood it's the reverse.

>>31245745
No, /tg/ just doesn't have a head that zips up the back.

>>31245745
Wat.

The most expensive part of manufacturing and selling things (models included), is the initial design phase. Those people who design the product get paid a LOT of money, and it generally takes them a long time and a lot of prototypes before it's approved.

After that, everything else costs nothing in comparison. Casting plastic? Pennies. Packaging? Dollars for entire lots. Shipping? Legitimate companies will have agreements with UPS/FedEx/etc that lowers the cost a lot.

If you ignore the upfront cost of design, GW is probably making a 80% margin or more on models.

There's a site that I use to get my Tau stuff from the Chinaman, but I haven't found much in the way of fantasy on it.

>>31245721
>old veteran
>7 years
>GW's prices have ever gone down
You're playing a peculiar game, anon.

>>31244816

It's funny because when I bought my first Dark Eldar battleforce it was 75 euro but when I went to get the second one that hadn't moved off the shelves in 3 years, it was 85.

>>31245721

>>31245725
TSR didn't go down because of playerbase turning their back to them but because Lorraine Williams had reasoning capacity of mentally challenged pre-schooler.

>>31245827

Around 10 grand for plastic molds doesn't sound like pennies to me

>>31245827
Are you implying its a bad thing that GW, GASP, MAKES MONEY TO PAY THEIR EMPLOYEES?!

Really, go kill yourself

>>31245725
>mfw I haven't bought anything from GW in years when it was still affordable.
>mfw I still play WHFB despite all the faggots who are butthurt over "muh gamez" and "muh lore" while denying that they are involved in an elaborate scam.

>>31245827
>doesn't know the cost of plastic injection molds
>thinks UPS and FedEx are in the UK
>doesn't know about first-world labor costs

You're ignorant as fuck.

>>31245871
>GW pays Cruddace money
Yes, this is a bad thing.

>>31245842
No, anon. Prices have come down. Hell back in the day the fucking things on came in pewter....

>>31245913

>>31245951
Noooo, mein kleines liebchen. The older models came in pewter, 5 bucks per pair of models.

>>31245991
Which models are you actually talking about here?

>>31245884
Actually UPS and Fedex ARE in the UK

>>31245827
The only thing I've seen that runs the numbers puts it at more like 10% profit margin:

http://www.fightingtigersofveda.com/roarseconomics.html

>>31246029
I never said it was consecutive years, when these first came out, they were mostly pewter

>>31246109
>>31246029
Now you spoiled shits can buy heros made of plastic for 12-20 bucks when they used to be 40-50

>>31246109
What?

Again, which models are you actually talking about?

>>31246125
the basic models of infantry, mostly the dwarves and orks for some reason

>>31246134
>tfw you remember pewter Skaven slaves
You kids don't know how good you have it these days

>>31246121

>>31246159
see

>>31246148
>>31246121

They are not wrong, and you are just a young knuckle head

>>31245951
>>31246159
>>31245855
>>31245123
>This guy has a legitamate retort, so I'm just going to call it b8

>>31246134
Plastic orcs have been sold since at least the mid-1990s, brah.

>>31246179
>>31246196
Cool samefagging kid.

Hey I don't like MTG prices so I'm just going to print out my own cards. Fuck you WoTC, how DARE you try to charge me for your game

>>31246218
>You disagree with me so you MUST be a samefag
And your shitposting isn't samefagged?
Still no retort, just macros

>>31245178

Not really, still can't see anything

>>31246201

MAN, I just LOVE the look of 1990s Warhammer!

I don't know what it is, but there's a certain quality to it that I just love.

Is it difficult to get hold of?

>>31246265

ebay.

>>31246201
Were these really $35?

I got into Fantasy around the late 90s and I seem to remember a box of plastic clanrats going for around $25. I really don't think prices have changed all that much, at least not for the core stuff like that.

>>31245228

There are no FLGS left where I live, only GW stores and they are tiny stores where you buy stuff and then get the fuck out because you're taking up space and air you're not paying for.

Why bother buying from them when I can just get 2nd hand models, the real thing but 50% off from a reseller or just recasts.

>>31246265
>I don't know what it is
I suspect that it's GARISH AS BALLS. Even in black.

>>31246201

In the UK I remember these going for about £15 at the time.

>>31245745

Clearly you're right, otherwise we'd see a BOATLOAD of new companies and kickstarters jumping in on the money pit!

>>31246218

>>31246306
>Were these really $35?
Hell no, that's just a random weird filename. I'd guess they were something like... $10, maybe?

>>31246387
No way, I'm almost positive they were more than that.

It's tough cause I'm going by trying to remember how pissy my mom would get when I wanted a box of models but I'm pretty sure it was more than $10 pissy.

OP is a faggot

>>31246306

The problem isn't so much that the individual boxes have gone up in price as that they have less content for their money. I do like the plastic kits a LOT more because you can actually customize things the way you like it and it comes with a ton of bits that the older ranges didn't have.

For example, DE warriors used to have a minor set where they came with a raider. Now they have a ton more bits but you have to buy your raider separately which is a lot more expensive. But again, more bits and plastic. Also worlds apart in looks.

>>31246434
>>31246387
Gentlemen you are forgetting about inflation. We paid 15-20 bucks per box of models, that would be almost 30-40 bucks in this time, roughly.

>>31245827
ITT, people who couldn't run a taco stand in real life pretend they know the costs involved in running a multinational corporation after product development.

Why not just play other games? They’re often better as games – it’s models and fluff that GW does well, not rules.

>>31246121
What kind of shitty trolling is this anyways? You kids clearly have no fucking idea what the prices used to be in the good olde dayes.

>>31246494

No stores, often no community

>>31246501
>Enough pieces for 30 space marines

Okay, this is something we need to consider as well, per-unit prices.

Because if a box was twice as much but contained three times as many marines, it's still a better deal

>>31246494
>it’s models and fluff that GW does well, not rules.
Word. It's the former and latter that keep me in it.
Still I buy most of my models (slowly) and make/buy alternataly what I can't afford and don't like

OP is a fag

>>31246376
You were saying?

>>31246376

I can actually see the shop mark in that one

>>31246560
>>31246561
>trying to troll this hard, you argue with a scren shot

Woooooow

>>31245533

>Orcs
>Harder. Not sure. Is Mantic even much cheaper anymore?

Yes by miles, in fact they jrecently put more orcs in the basic regiment box for the same price.

>>31246561
>>31246609
I don't even know anymore

>>31245178
>>31245058
Oh shit nigger, how much?

One egregious GW cocksucking samefag derails whole thread, news at eleven.

I'd ebay all your WFB books OP and just play Kings of War. If you're of a Historic gaming bent you'll probably enjoy it. Can download it off their website for nowt, so you may as well check before you throw any more money at "The mother company".

>>31245827
See, >>31245871
>>31245884
>doesn't know about first-world labor costs

If this were a Chinese or Indian company, sure, I'd expect to get 100 minis for like $5.
But this is a company owned and operated in the UK, a first world country that pays its employees first world wages; plus dem crazy as fuck European taxes on businesses.

>>31244119
This thread is retarded and the OP is a troll cunt. Stop replying, dudes.

>>31246744
>Buying products from the company that makes your game
>Cocksucking

>Implying your not samefagging

If you want to play a differant game, it's cool to get differant figures. But if you play magic the gathering with pokemon cards, you are a faggot

OP loves the man

>>31246796
If you -could- play MtG with Pokemon cards, you'd be a damned genius.

Now if you want to talk about playing with knock off MtG cards, then that might be a valid example.

>>31246762
Wait anon, are you implying everyone in this thread against the white workers of the UK and US are JEWS?!

I want to have Lamborghini. But i refuse to spent so much for fucking car ! Fuck you Italian Jew fags !

>>31246843
yes

In fact, with the cost of labor and materials the Chinaman has, he's probably reaping a better profit than GW.

Chinaman <3<3<3

>>31246523
17 sprues @ 60p(1980) per sprue = 10.20 pounds (1980s) = ~$20.40 (1980s) = ~$40.80 (2014)

~$40.80 for 30 = ~$1.36 for 1

~$1.36 for 1 (1980) vs $4.00 for 1 (2014)

I want to bang hot alien daemonettes, but I don't want to spend money on a warp summoning/portal and I don't want my soul sucked out and raped for eterinity. FUCK YOU SLAANESH!

I want to charge riduclous prices for my models but I am loosing sales. Fuck you customers!

>>31246945
Than don't play warhammer. There ARE other games
Done

Chinamans Lamborgini same as Italians but much more cheap ! Now i have car of my dream and feel like a part of elite of our world.

>>31246479
But enough about GWs management staff

>>31246958
what the hell are you talking about? I am the seller

>>31246992
>Being this retarded
Don't use rhetoric if you don't know what you are doing

>>31247013
>being this shilling

>>31246762
You do realise how few people GW employ on the production line. If you've actually walked around the "foundry" you will generally find it deserted as the casting machines clunk away sprue after sprue into big boxes. They employ more people in the packing department than in manufacturing.

Other companies use chinese factories not necessarily because they're cheaper, by the time stuff is shipped, the labour costs aren't that big of a difference. The reason more isn't made in the UK (and presumably the US) is that the machines are specialist enough that they just don't exist here. Workshop have 6, Renendra have 2 All run 24/7 to meet supply. Reaper just spent their Kickstarter bux on a single one.

China has dozens crewed by people with highly variable know how and quality control.

ITT: Newfriends learn about the greatness that is the chinaman.

>>31247031
>You do realise how few people GW employ on the production line. If you've actually walked around the "foundry" you will generally find it deserted as the casting machines clunk away sprue after sprue into big boxes. They employ more people in the packing department than in manufacturing.
But they still pay their workers a living wage in a first world country.
That same wage would pay an entire crew of Chinese workers for the same year and likely more work.

>>31246910
Someone explain inflation to this faggot.

>>31247096
>>31246910
My fucking sides

>>31247031
>China has dozens crewed by people with highly variable know how and quality control.
>China
>quality control

Nigger you are trolling so hard its not even funny

>>31247096
>inflation

That is what this section was factoring in:
>~$20.40 (1980s) = ~$40.80 (2014)

The 1980's dollar was worth roughly twice as much as the modern dollar.

Just play with paper if you don't want to pay money.

>>31247138
Chinaman does better quality control than both FW and GW finecast line.

>>31247228
This
RPing games, including the one set in the WH world are free and great

Don't like buying models? Don't play the game.

>>31247256
You are fucking with me, right?

>>31247256
>>31247292
Depends on the chinaman, and you also need to take resin quality into account. Coolcast has always had better quality than FW as far as I have experienced, however, the extremely hard resin can make cutting very hard, and thin stuff like swords can be very brittle.
Zanchui on the other hand is more akin to FW, often having bubbles and warping, but their resin is softer and thus easier to work with. Thin stuff is still problematic, FW Abbaddon's sword for example is way too thin and bendy to be used.

>>31247457
>meanwhile none of this ever happens with GW models due to quality control

Maggot.

>>31247633
GWDF pls go.

>>31247633
What is Finecrap? What is horribly warped and bubbled FW kits?

>>31247805
>>31247779
>Have never had a warped or bubbled sprue in all the years ive been modeling with GW stock
>Orks, Tau, Empire, and Lizardmen

No sir, you are just a faggot

>>31247831

>>31247882
>Calling every post against your opinion bait

>>31247805
Never had a problem with the FW or Finecast stuff I've bought. My Cadian Shock Troops do need clean up, especially around the feet and legs. I chalk this up to it being an old kit that has been cast too many times.

>>31247831
We're not disputing your personal experience with the products, some people might get lucky and never encounter a misscast. If you're one of them, good for you.
But the average quality of GW CFC used to be terrible (2+ refunds before getting non-defective product was pretty common sight), it got better since, but is still far from perfect.

>>31244119
This is kind of related and I didn't wanna make a thread for it.

I recently sold a sisters of battle army on craigslist for $250, the lot included; 1 saint celestine, 15 seraphim, 33 squad units, 10 repentia, 4 retributors, 2 rhinos, 2 immolators with optional whirlwind attachments, bunch of bits and bases, decals, three explosion templates and golden taklon paint brushes.

Half of them were primed black with krylon primer and assembled.

Was that a good or bad price?

>>31246501
Is dat sum rainbow warriors?

>>31248089
Why bother asking after it's too late to do anything about it?

>>31248207
Just wondering, I really should have asked this before I realize now.

>>31248089
It's a great deal. If you bought that shit from GW you'd be paying over 770$, not even taking into account the humiliation and tears from being anally sodomized by their brutal corporate cock.

>>31248166
Do you see any rainbows? If so, you need to lay off the drugs.

They're clearly crimson fists. You can tell this by the fists being painted crimson. I'll grant you that it's fairly subtle. Like a brick to the face more or less.

OP is a fag