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[ERROR] No.30951682 [DELETED]  [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

Let's say you wanted to play a 4th age of middle earth setting, what would be your plothooks?

>> No.30951730

I wouldnt.

Even Tolkien said that the plot hooks for a book after LOTR were un-interesting.

>> No.30951746

Noble Southern peoples defend against God-King Elessar's relentless imperialistic ambition, fighting side by side with their orc-kin allies, to preserve their way of life.

>> No.30951752

>>30951682
Retake Moria or go kill Haradhrim/Easterlings

>> No.30951768

>>30951682
Mopping up the deepest caverns in the Mordor mountains, joining the expeditions to the East, rebuilding Minas Tirith. These are all concepts explored in MERP as it happens.

Tolkien tried to write a FA story, a murder mystery set in Minas Tirith, but could never get into it and never got past the first chapter.

>> No.30951781

>>30951682
It'snot Fourth, but here's some interesting writefaggotry I found on RPG.net involving 7th Age stuff.

>> No.30951788

>>30951781
Er, here it is.
>http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?430699-Setting-Riff-The-Seventh-Age-of-Middle-earth

>> No.30951791

Did he flesh out much for the Fourth Age?

>> No.30951804

>>30951791
Not really. Elessar and Eomer go East and slaughter things, everything is nice in the Shire, Mordor is recolonized.

>> No.30951805

Stealing the last remaining set of Galadriel's knickers from vaults beneath Minas Morgul.

>> No.30951817

>>30951791
Realms of Men prospered, as the reunited Númenórean kingdoms in exile (as the Reunited Kingdom of Gondor and Arnor) under King Elessar and later his son Eldarion. Elessar rebuilt the once-ruined northern city of Annúminas and often dwelt there although his throne remained in Gondor. Allied realms such as Rohan and Esgaroth also prospered, as did the protected enclaves of the Shire and the Woses of Ghân-buri-Ghân.

Despite the fall of Sauron, there were significant kingdoms of evil Men that had to be dealt with before the White Tree could grow in peace. In the appendices Tolkien states that Éomer fulfilled the oath of Eorl by riding with Elessar to war on the plains of Harad and beyond the sea of Rhûn, so it is clear that fighting continued with at least some of the Men who had allied with Sauron in the past. It has been suggested that ultimately these campaigns were successful, as the Easterlings and Haradrim were at least subdued, or even became part of the Reunited Kingdom. Many former slaves of Sauron were freed and were given land in Mordor, around the sea of Núrnen, for their own.

>> No.30951825

>>30951817
>Elves
After repulsing assaults from Dol Guldur and destroying it with the power of Galadriel's ring during the end of the War of the Ring, the elves of Lothlórien and Mirkwood subsequently managed to rid the great forest of all the forces of evil. Thranduil and Celeborn then met in the midst of the forest and renamed it Eryn Lasgalen, or Wood of Greenleaves, and divided it among several parties. Thranduil's kingdom remained in the northern part of Mirkwood, from the northern edge to the Mountains of Mirkwood while Celeborn expanded Lothlórien into the southern portion of Mirkwood and named it East Lorien. The forest between the two elven kingdoms were given to men, although this area probably expanded as the elven realms diminished with their populations gradually departing to the West.

For at least a while, an Elven colony led by Legolas was founded in Ithilien, and the land once again became the "fairest country in all the westlands."

However, as the Fourth Age marked the beginning of the Age of Men, the elves continued to depart to the West during the Fourth Age. By the time of King Elessar's death, the elven realms of Rivendell and Lorien became mostly abandoned as the last elven ships set sail to Valinor. The few elves who remained eventually faded and became invisible spirits to all of Middle-earth.

>> No.30951831

>>30951825
>Dwarves
The Dwarves of Durin's Folk prospered in Erebor, and there are indications Gimli led a group of dwarves to Aglarond.

Mining expeditions were sent to Khazad-dûm where mithril was again mined, used to restore the gates of Minas Tirith, but Khazad-dûm was not immediately recolonized. There are, however, indications that a Durin the Last later did rebuild this Dwarven Kingdom, returning Durin's Folk to their ancestral homes.

Apparently the Dwarven race began to dwindle by the end of the Fourth Age, for their women made up less than a third of their population. Often, the women would not desire to marry, or want a husband that they couldn't have. Similarly, many Dwarven men were too engrossed in their crafts and did not have the time to take a wife and have children. Their ultimate fate is unclear

>> No.30951837

>>30951831
>Others
Orcs and Trolls fled to the far east, and never really recovered. Either during the end of Eldarion's rule (or 100 years after) or near the end of Aragorn's, there was some talk of "Orc-cults" although these seem to have been founded and run by humans.[2][3]

The future of the Ents and Huorns is unclear. Aragorn granted them Fangorn Forest as an enclave and gave them permission to expand the forest again west into the vast wastes of Eriador where once a vast primeval forest had spread, but Treebeard lamented that while the forests may spread again the Ents would not, as the entwives had not been found up to date (nor would likely ever be found). Over time they dwindled off and more of them became increasingly "tree-ish" and it does not appear that they ever enter into the affairs of other races again (it is unclear if a non-communicative tree-ish Ent can be considered "dead" or if in a sense they persist to the present day).[4]

Dragons will be still present but they will not interfere until later ages according to letter 144 of Tolkien. Some stray answers. Dragons. They had not stopped; since they were active in far later times, close to our own. Have I said anything to suggest the final ending of dragons? If so it should be altered. The only passage I can think of is Vol.I p. 70: ‘there is not now any dragon left on earth in which the old fire is hot enough’. But that implies, I think, that there are still dragons, if not of full primeval stature….-

>> No.30951843

>>30951837
>The Fellowship
Aragorn, crowned King Elessar, ruled the Reunited Kingdom of Arnor and Gondor until his death in the 120th year of the Fourth Age. He ruled with his Queen Arwen, and their son Eldarion succeeded Aragorn on his death. They also had multiple daughters.

Of the remaining members of the Fellowship of the Ring, it is recorded that Samwise Gamgee became Mayor of the Shire, and was an advisor of King Elessar. His daughter Elanor became one of Arwen's handmaidens. Near the end of his life he is believed to have left for Valinor on one of the last ships of Círdan, as he too was a Ring-bearer, having borne the One Ring during Frodo's captivity by the orcs.

Meriadoc Brandybuck and Peregrin Took became Master of Buckland and Thain of the Shire respectively in due time. They remained in close friendship with the royal houses of Rohan and Gondor. When of advanced age they departed for Gondor and Rohan together, and both died around Spring F.A. 63. They were buried in Rath Dínen with the greats of Gondor.

Legolas is said to have, after the death of King Elessar in Fourth Age 120, built a ship and finally sailed to the West. According to an entry in the Red Book of Westmarch, Gimli left with him — the only Dwarf to ever do so, evidently due to their strong friendship and out of his desire to once more see Galadriel.

>> No.30951847

>>30951843
Fourth Age

Length uncertain. All entries are derived from the Appendices to The Lord of the Rings, unless otherwise noted.

6: Peregrin Took marries Diamond of Long Cleeve
(Date uncertain): Birth of Elfwine, son of Éomer and Lothíriel
(Date uncertain): Birth of Elboron, son of Faramir and Éowyn
(Date uncertain): Birth of Durin VII, descendant (perhaps son) of Thorin III Stonehelm
13: Peregrin Took becomes thirty-second Thain of the Shire
15: Death of Glóin, father of Gimli.
34: Death of Prince Imrahil. Imrahil's son Elphir assumes the Principality.
41: Birth of Holfast Gardner, son and heir of Frodo Gardner
61: Samwise Gamgee leaves Middle-earth via Mithlond
63: Meriadoc Brandybuck, aged 102, and Pippin leave the Shire to live in Gondor; death of Éomer, aged 93, whose son Elfwine ascends the throne of Rohan.
67: Death of Prince Elphir son of Imrahil, twenty-third Prince of Dol Amroth. Elphir's son Alphros assumes the Principality.[17]
80: Birth of Harding of the Hill, Sam Gamgee's heir and great-grandson
82: Death of Faramir, aged 120. His son Elboron assumes the Principality.[17]
91: Death of Dwalin, brother of Balin, aged 341.
95: Death of Prince Alphros of Dol Amroth, son of Elphir.[17]
120: Death of Aragorn, King of the Reunited Kingdom of Arnor and Gondor, after 210 years of life and 122 years of reign; his son Eldarion ascends the throne. The bodies of Meriadoc and Peregrin are laid beside that of Aragorn. According to legend, on the death of Aragorn, Legolas builds a ship and sails into the west to the Undying Lands, taking Gimli (now a very old Dwarf) with him and marking an end to the Fellowship of the Ring.
121: Death of Arwen, aged 2901
172: A copy of the Red Book of Westmarch is made[18]
185: Death of Harding of the Hill, Sam Gamgee's heir[19]
c. 220: End of Eldarion's reign[20]

>> No.30951853

>>30951817
>>30951825
>>30951831
>>30951837
>>30951843
>>30951847

Cheers for that, really fascinating.

>> No.30951878

>>30951853
Sure is, but I don't really see plot hooks apart from clearing out Moria or Mordor. Maybe something revolving around one of these orc cults, but without a strong leader, evil is just gonna get curbstomped.

>> No.30951898

>>30951878
I see a really low-fantasy campaign, where orcs are horrific monster hiding in the darkest worlds, almost legends. They steal babies and so forth, and are worshipped by outsiders. It would almost be like a standard medieval campaign with but with bogeymen. Less epic adventure, more grassroots horror.

>> No.30951903

http://lotr.wikia.com/wiki/The_New_Shadow

>"I did begin a story placed about 100 years after the Downfall, but it proved both sinister and depressing. Since we are dealing with Men, it is inevitable that we should be concerned with the most regrettable feature of their nature: their quick satiety with good. So that the people of Gondor in times of peace, justice and prosperity, would become discontented and restless — while the dynasts descended from Aragorn would become just kings and governors — like Denethor or worse. I found that even so early there was an outcrop of revolutionary plots, about a centre of secret Satanistic religion ; while Gondorian boys were playing at being Orcs and going around doing damage. I could have written a 'thriller' about the plot and its discovery and overthrow — but it would have been just that. Not worth doing."

>> No.30951907

What happened with the Northern Kingdoms in the first place? It's been years since I read LoTR, and I never read much of the other material.

>> No.30951912

>>30951907
a little something called the Witch King

>> No.30951913

>>30951898
I'm gonna steal that idea and stash it away for later, but playing a campaign like this in Middle-Earth seems a bit of a waste of a setting to me.

>> No.30951932

>>30951913
Invoke the sense of loss and faded glory that Tolkien was aiming for. There's something very post-Arthurian to it. Lots of ghosts, haunted forests, superstitions, faded memories and weird dreams.

Remember that scene in the movies where Elrond still Arwen about how she will die and become a ghost? I thought that was really creepy. It shows how she becomes a Lady of the Lake - or maybe a Blair Witch. This is the sort of thing you could use.

>> No.30951934

>>30951898
That's a good idea too.I can see the descendants of other nonhuman raceseventually giving rise to the various myths and legends of Europe. Thranduil's folk, while now rare and unseen by most, do seem to often have a rather Fair Folk vibe to them. And perhaps stumbling on a dwarven hall gave rise to the various Hollow Earth theories.

God knows what would happen if anyone dug up Utumno...

>> No.30951951

>>30951912
>the Witch King
I'm aware of that, but only really vaguely. I should give it all another crack sometime.

>> No.30951965

>>30951932
That's true. Also, interesting idea for a setting. I'm gonna have to think about this.

>> No.30951966

>>30951951
MERP used it as the original default setting, TA 1640. It's pretty cool really : a whole kingdom gets destroyed, the Bad Guys win, and the players are stuck in the shitstorm.

>> No.30952000

I suggest using "The New Shadow", the beginning of an unfinished follow-up (written by Tolkien himself, to be found in "The Peoples of Middle-Earth (The History of Middle-Earth, Vol. 12))", which basically deals with the effects of being over-saturated after a time of piece and welfare, so some of the folk of Gondor gather in a dubious cult with doubtful philosophies: "... he smelt the old evil and knew it for what it was".

>> No.30952017

*peace

>> No.30952132

Shelob's still lurking somewhere. And Tolkien made it clear that dragons existed for entire ages after the 3rd. The mouth of Sauron wasn't killed. The two blue wizards failed in their missions and possibly started cults of their own. There were elvish spirits who refused to cross the sea and got tainted, turned to evil and were used in dark magic or possessed others bodies via magic. Orcs, Trolls and other wicked creatures still remain in Middle-earth. Though they were greatly reduced in number and were driven into hiding. The Arkenstone may in fact be a lesser stone of similar nature to that of the Silmarils. Taking that idea and running with it, you have the contact of Light and Unlight. When they interact the release is more Unlight. A 'Black Silmaril' if you catch my meaning. It would be a very powerful artifact, something that could be used by the reincarnation of evil in the Fourth Age. One idea that just came to mind - what if Alatar or Pallando (or even both, as rivals) established dynasties far off in the East? A line of great kings of Maia descent would make great master enemies for a campaign. Minas Morgul was deeply tainted by evil and took years for it to become fit for human habiation. Morgoth, although chained up still wills evil into the world.

>> No.30952225

>>30952132
>The mouth of Sauron wasn't killed.
He wasn't?

>> No.30952283

Beorn's shapeshifting folk still exist and dominate much of Mirkwood. The watcher in the waters isn't dead. "The Balrogs were destroyed, save SOME FEW that fled and hid THEMSELVES in caverns inaccessible at the roots of the earth;"
Silmarillion "War of Wrath" So yeah, the Balrogs are lurking somewhere. It doesn't look like the evil bats or wargs were wiped out either.There doesn't seem to be any reason for the giant eagles to not be around. And you've got the Crebain. Huorons are wild and dangerous without Ents to keep them in check. Huorns had great power and could wrap themselves in shadow. When angry, they were able to move with great speed. So yeah.

>> No.30952291

>>30952225
Guy retreated back through the Black Gates when Gandalf told him to piss off.

>> No.30952307

>>30952225
His fate isn't recorded.

>> No.30952310

>>30952132
The blue wizards incited revolts against Sauron in the East and South, they were not evil. Tolkien mentioned that they had "as big an impact to the war as Gandalf".

>> No.30952311

>>30952291
Time to re-read Return of the King, I guess.

>> No.30952334

>>30952283
One campaign could be to help Ents find the Entwives now that Sauron was gone. There was at least one lurking about near Shire.

>> No.30952353

And the barrow wights haven't been destroyed.

>> No.30952369

>>30952310
Cool beans

>> No.30953106

>>30951912
>>30951951
>>30951966

You don't happen to have a little more info on that?

I'm curious

>> No.30953557

A possible relic could be the Dragon-helm of Dor-lómin

>> No.30953946

sail west again and conquer it this time.

>> No.30954011

>>30953946
The west was sent to a different plane of existence which only an elf could find.

>> No.30954024

>>30951730
Well to be fair that was probably him being uncreative and unimaginative as always.

>> No.30954046

>>30954024
lol true. He was a worldbuilder, not a storyteller.

>> No.30954078

>>30954011
Well then, capture a couple of wild Elves, strap them to you ships' prows and sail to Valinor.

>> No.30954224

>>30954078
And that's where the legend of the Voyage of Bran came from

>> No.30954312

>>30954024
>>30954046
Obviously the plot wasn't that interesting in fourth age, it was not actually done. Sure, the important historical events were recorded to some degree, but that doesn't mean they couldn't include interesting details. Just like one could just say "Beren and Luthien nicked a silmaril from crown of Morgoth" or you could have the entire proper story of it.

>> No.30954369

Sauron won the War of the Ring. Te 4th age is an industrialist's wetdream ruled over by Godking Tar-Mairon the Magnificent.

>> No.30954383

>>30951843
>Gimli left with him — the only Dwarf to ever do so, evidently due to their strong friendship and out of his desire to once more see Galadriel.

Gimli and Galadriel confirmed for fucking, thus making that terrible romance in the hobbit movies SLIGHTLY more canon

>> No.30954416

>>30954383
the birth of dwelfs

>> No.30954436

>>30954416

>> No.30954600

So lemme get this straight:

Rohan = A mishmash of Germanics
Dunland/Bree = Celts
Woodmen/Dale/Beornings = Slavs
Gondor = Greeks/Romans
Shire = Englishmen
Lossoth = Sami/Inuit
Corsairs of Umbar = Barbary pirates/Carthage
Rangers of the north = Who the fuck knows
Easterlings = Mongols/Huns/Turks.
Near Harad = Persians/Arabs/Berbers
Far Harad = Africans
Variangs = ????

Right?

>> No.30954728

>>30954600
No, Rohan is Anglo-Saxon England and Gondor is post-Norman England. Shire is an idolised mid 19th century England that never really existed. And most of the others don't have direct one-for-one correlations to real cultures.

>> No.30954778

>>30954728
Rohan seemed more like Goths. And Gondor seemed somewhat Egyptian.

>> No.30954794

>>30954600
1/10

Not very accurate.

>> No.30954886

>>30954778
I'm fairly certain Gondor was supposed to be Warring States period China, and Rohan the Teotihuacán culture of Mesoamerica.

>> No.30954937

>>30954778
Well, Goths were just another Germanic tribe, so there's not much difference, but since Tolkien was English and heavily influenced by Beowulf, which was Anglo-Saxon, they're by far the more likely candidate. Especially with all the mead halls and such. Rohan is just Anglo-Saxon England but with more horses.

>> No.30954976

>>30954794
U wot m8?

>> No.30955011

>>30954886
Nah, Gondor was too united to be warring states era. And Rohan had mead and horses.
>>30954937
True, but then again the Norse and Goths had mead halls as well

>> No.30955045

>>30954886
>Rohan the Teotihuacán culture of Mesoamerica.

The fuck? They look exactly like a quasi-Germanic people and they speak Old English. They are entirely based upon an Anglo-Saxon England that had better cavalry as Tolkein felt this weakness cost them victory against the Normans.

>> No.30955052

>>30954383
I know that must have sounded noble and shit in Tolkien's own time, but now it just makes Gimli seem like a creepy neckbeard. Also, the whole thing of asking for a strand of her hair to keep.

>> No.30955070

>>30955052
Yeah, today it would be more appropriate if he told her "ay yo girl you gonna hop on this dick".

>> No.30955093

>>30955045
I have this sneaking suspicion that >>30954886 was being facetious.

>> No.30955126

>>30955052
Well, since elves are the master race and dwarves are Jews, it makes sense the highest a dwarf can aspire is to be creepily obsessed with the prettiest elf.
Tolkien has a recurring theme of men of lower status falling in love with women of higher status, actually.

>> No.30955173

>>30951682
- looting abandonned Lothlorien and Rivendell, selling, buying and faking eldar artifacts.
- theres still plenty of orc marauders I guess, so old time hack'n slash isn't out of the question
- Isn't there a Palantir lying somewhere? This shit should be worth nice price. I wonder why someone would want such thing.

>> No.30955213

>>30955173
>I wonder why someone would want such thing.
To make a mace out of it obviously.

>> No.30955249

>>30955173
A bunch of murderhobos would make a pretty fun contrast against the Fellowship and other noble hero parties of Tolkien's works.

Bonus points if they're not Umbar corsairs.

>> No.30955254

>>30955173
>I wonder why someone would want such thing.

C'mon m8

>> No.30955260

>>30955126
Because courtly love is a big deal in myth, especially English myth.

>> No.30955270

In a large scale Lord of the Rings rp I once joined, set in the Fourth Age, it was basically Alatar trying to start an invasion of the west with his magic cults while Pallando tried to stop him.

It eventually turned it into a rather shitty War of the Ring knock off with Alatar as a mix of Saruman and Suaron, and Pallando as Gandalf, but we had fun.

Me and a bunch of others made Goblin characters from Goblintown and Moria who'd taken over Rivendell, now that the elfs were gone and the magic fading. A lot of people were pissed off that the last homely house was now known as either 'Goblindell' or 'New Goblintown,' was now covered in iron spikes and housed several goblins, a troll and an orc who frequently raided everything west of them, including the Shire, for picnic food and treasures, singing songs all the while.

>> No.30955277

>>30955070

>> No.30955442

>>30955260
Nah man, adultery and incest are a big deal in myth. Courtly love is only present in a very small subset of myth.

>> No.30955449

There's the Elfstone floating around somewhere, and let's not forget about Mithril. The elven cloaks might still exist. And that's not even getting into the elven swords.

>> No.30955695

>>30955254
It was 2 way communications devices. One of that we know about should be buried in the ruins of Barad Dur, so quest to rerieve it would be something. Others are somewhere below the sea or in the blessed lands. This opens some possibilities.
Ous badass rogue team of looters and hobos would have to meet someone quite well informed, wealthy and thus interesting to obtain such quest.
>So you want us to go to that haunted wasteland and to look for shiny orb in this pile of rubble, ye?
>Yes, that is exactly what I like you to do.
>And, tell me my good man, what is that stuff?
>Oh, nothing important, just a shiny stone. I find them.. fascinating.
>Right, we'll get your shiny thingy. But you bet your ass that this'll cost ya big, big money.
>Dont worry about the money. Just get the job done. At any cost.

>> No.30955716

>>30955126
>Tolkien has a recurring theme of men of lower status falling in love with women of higher status, actually.

Examples?

>> No.30955751

>>30955716

>> No.30955763

>>30955751
Beren was line of kings, a royalty.

>> No.30955765

>>30955716
Beren and Luthien

>> No.30955784

>>30955716
Aragorn and Arwen, Beran and Luthien, I think it was Thingol and a Maiar.

>> No.30955786

>>30955763
And Luthien's momma was a god.

>> No.30955800

>>30955763
It was a filthy human and therefore below the lowest elf.

>> No.30955820

>>30955786
Yes, but in sense of royal bloodlines, they were both high up.
>>30955784
Aragorn was also a high royal.

>> No.30955972

>>30955820
Royal lines are shit compared to racial lines you fucknuckle, why are you too dense to get this?

>> No.30956002

>>30955972

That's certainly the impression I got from the way that the Beren and Luthien narrative was conveyed.

>> No.30956071

>>30955972
Sorry m8 but its the Middle Earth not the Witcher setting. Both humans and elves are the children of Iluvatar, different, sure, but equal. They all have role to play in this world. That's what the fuckin' LOTR trillogy was all about.

>> No.30956077

>>30955972
He's descended from Earendil himself, you know. She's his great-great-great-(repeat 47ish times)-grandfather's cousin.

>>30951682
You know how one of Tolkien's earlier plans was for the whole saga to be a sort of mythic past of our earth? Hence magic disappearing in the Fourth Age and all that.

You know how the surviving Balrogs hid themselves far down at the roots of the mountains?

You know how we've got some *really fucking deep* mines these days?

System is GURPS, obviously. I don't know what else could do the idea well.

>> No.30956126

>>30955972
Early men were massively more powerful than later ages, they were equal to firstborns, maybe not in magic, but they certainly made up for it in strength and stature. Early men were a formidable race and much respected by the firstborn WITH FEW EXCEPTIONS such as Luthien's father.

>> No.30956142

>>30956077
>You know how one of Tolkien's earlier plans was for the whole saga to be a sort of mythic past of our earth
Isn't that actually part of the canon. I'm sure I remeber the hobbit making some mention of hobbits surviving into the present and merely going unseen by humans.

>> No.30956235

>>30956126
>>30956071
>>30956077
I just meant that within the context of those romantic narrative it's very clear that the woman is marrying below her, and making something of a sacrifice. The elves for instance have to give up there immortality to be with their humans lovers.

>> No.30956274

>>30956235
>The elves for instance have to give up there immortality to be with their humans lovers.
She was given a choice, and chose to not outlive Beren like she would otherwise have done.

She got to change which Gift she had, basically, and that's a *pretty big thing*. Remember, the Elves envy the Men for their lack of immortality, just like the Men envy the Elves for their own gift.

>> No.30956290

>>30956142
Yes, the Hobbit and the Lord of the Rings are translations of a copy of Bilbo's Red Book of Westermarch that survived until modern times. Silmarillion and other Elvish legends were translated in the Middle Ages by an Anglo-Saxon, Aelfwine of England, who managed to find the straight road to Aman.

>> No.30956311

Players are Orcs trying to kill a Ranger that's been possessed by a Wraith.

>> No.30956387

>>30956311

I actually really want to play Shadows of Mordor.

>> No.30956428

>>30956274
Yeah, but there's a clear distinction between the man and the woman. A god and an immortal, an immortal and a mortal. That's the difference in status. It's obviously a motif Tolkien was fond off.

>> No.30956455

>>30956428
>motif
I cannot describe to you the joy, and relief and pure platonic love I feel for you in this moment for using the word 'motif' instead of 'trope'. Thank you, thank you so very much.

>> No.30956573

>>30956235
>The elves for instance have to give up there immortality to be with their humans lovers.
That isn't strictly true. They were destined to go to different place. Elves go to halls of Mandos, humans continued after the world was remade, elves don't. Arguably it could be said that Humans are the immortal ones.

>> No.30956653

>>30956455

No sarcasm btw

>> No.30956742

>>30956573
If that's true, it's obscure lore and i'm pretty sure it's not something the elves and humans know about, you know? From the viewpoint of those within the setting humans just die and don't know where they go, or if they go anywhere, compared to the elves who know for certain. That the whole reasons Sauron was able to corrupt Numenor.

>>30956455
>>30956653
Uh, you're welcome?

>> No.30956794

Human politics because all the magic guys pack their shit and hit the road after Sauron was destroyed.

>> No.30956867

>>30956742
It's just such a relief that somebody used 'motif' in an analytical conversation rather than 'trope' like the dipshit got their BA from TVTropes.comMunity College. The misuse of that word by people trying to look smart shits me to no end, and it's beenso long since I've heard or read someboy use motif or symbol or theme or cliche or device or any of the more appropriate words instead.

>> No.30956948

I've been meaning to try out a Rome: Total War mod called The Fourth Age.

>It is the 238th Year of the Fourth Age of the Sun, and over 200 years have passed since the Return of the King, and the downfall of the Dark Lord. The Reunited Kingdom is beset on all sides by foes, and now even her own people are rebelling. The new Kingdom of Adûnabâr has seized Mordor and all its lands to the East of the Anduin. Their alliance with Rohan is faltering, as the Rohirrim are in open war with the Dunlendings. To the East the hordes of the Easterlings are once again moving, and the Haradrim are mustering their forces for yet another invasion. And as if that was not enough, rumours of a dark cult have been spreading through the lands of Gondor…

Kingdom of Adûnabâr is apparently led by an evil guy called Herumor, the Lord Black, which sounds pretty baller.

>> No.30956954

>>30956742
>If that's true, it's obscure lore and i'm pretty sure it's not something the elves and humans know about, you know?

In Tolkein's setting? Common knowledge among elves. Among mankind, education varies.

>humans just die and don't know where they go

No one knows humans go after death or what the conditions of their existence are, except that it isn't anywhere in Middle-Earth. The elves will endure as long as the world, but they know the world will some day end. What humans have is a "mystery box" afterlife that gives the theoretical possibility of continuing past the end of the world.

>> No.30956993

Even though he never said it aloud, humans obviously go to the Christian heaven to hang out with Eru.

>> No.30957252

>>30951903
Sounds like Game of Thrones with no magic.

>> No.30957481

>>30951903
>while Gondorian boys were playing at being Orcs and going around doing damage

>> No.30957554

>>30957481
I'm gonna guess they would be closer to punks or murder hippies.

>> No.30957625

>In a place of deep darkness far to the east, Thuringwethil has awoken from her slumber. Now she hungers for dominion over the Children of Iluvatar. Who now has the power and resolve to stand against one of Morgoth's trusted lieutenants from the First Age?

>Curumo and Mairon are cellmates in Mandos' penitentiary for wayward maiar. Will Curumo's cunning and ingenuity help him keep a firm grip on his bar of soap when Gothmog smells fresh bitch meat? And can he count on Mairon's help either way?

>Gwaihir is hungry, and his mate just ate the last Mumak alive. Will the Shire survive his onslaught?

>Suddenly, without warning, Feanor returns to life with possession of all three Silmarils, standing next to the White Tree of Gondor, completely naked.

>> No.30957847 [SPOILER] 

>>30952310
>are prisons really as bad as they say?

>> No.30957927

>>30955763
Luthien was from a line of greater kings, plus her mother was a demigoddess.

>> No.30957947

>>30956235
Not true. Tuor actually went to Valinor like an elf instead. The "Arwen" rule has only applied two of the three times. Not a huge sample size, really.

>> No.30958066

>>30957927
Yeah, but Men don't really have anything to equal that, so it's not like there could have been a better pairing. Beren's lineage was pretty prestigious, if not the most prestigious of that age.

On an unrelated note, does it bother anyone else that pretty much all of Tolkien's heroes are descended from some great and fabled lines? and that half of them are fucking related to the other half? Even the hobbits have some local tough guy who plays golf with orc heads as their ancestor.

Peasants don't stand a chance in this setting.

>> No.30958115

>>30958066
Samwise Gamgee wasn't descended from the Bullroarer, and he was easily a contender for noblest soul and doughtiest comrade, Anon. Do servants count as "peasant" enough for you, son?

>> No.30958146

>>30958115
Samwise is Paladin as fuck.

>> No.30958213

>>30958066
You're only now noticing that Tolkien's fiction is super classist? The divine right of kings is a massive facet of his work, Sam is the only character that isn't at least a member of the landed gentry. And Sam is largely defined as a character by his unfailing loyalty to his master, their relationship being inspired by gentleman officers in the British army being assigned their own personal man servant called a batsman. That's what Sam is, Frodo's batsman. And then there's Denethor, who's fate shows what happens when government is put in the hands of anyone besides the royals.

>> No.30958365

>>30958213
>That's what Sam is, Frodo's batsman

>> No.30958395

>>30958365
>wealthy, affluent, notable figure in the Hobbit community
>fights crime
>defeats monsters

Obviously Samwise Gamgee is the Eru-damned Batman.

>> No.30958446

>>30958213
the stories are intentionally based on traditional mythology

thats why everything is so detailed and catalogued, because its not written as a typical novel, its written as a fictional historical myth, thus the True King swoops in and saves the day

>> No.30958564

>>30958213
>You're only now noticing that Tolkien's fiction is super classist?
Nah, I've been aware of it pretty much since I first started reading Tolkien. I just thought it'd be a good discussion point, as you've demonstrated yourself.

Can anyone actually name any heroes who weren't descendants of royals or other heroes? Even primogenitors of royal lines seem to always be leaders of their people, like Eorl the Young being the son of a chieftain of the Eotheod. It's like royalty is an intrinsic value or some shit.

>> No.30958582

>>30954024
>Well to be fair that was probably him being uncreative and unimaginative as always.

Yeah it's not like he invented over twenty languages or nine writing scripts or created a mythology which encompasses nearly 1000 named characters.

>> No.30958610

>>30954728
>Gondor is post-Norman England.

Gondor is obviously the Byzantine Empire.

The story is set in the early medieval period remember, and Gondor is so much more civilized than the mud hut dwellers to the north.

>> No.30958633

>>30958564
Samwise Gamgee

>> No.30958848

>>30958633
Obviously besides Samwise Gamgee, since we already went through that.

Also, Sam was really just a sidekick.

>> No.30958894

>>30958564
>It's like royalty is an intrinsic value or some shit.

well, litterally in the case of the numenorian line

>> No.30958941

>>30958564
Uh

Well

I'm pretty sure at least a handful of Thorin's company weren't nobles?
...and Bill the Pony kicked some ass in the Battle of Bywater, too

>> No.30959060

>>30958564
The eagles? No, wait, Gwaihir is a king...

I guess Gandalf is not any kind of royalty or aristocray. He's just an angel on a mission from God.

>> No.30959111

>>30959060

>> No.30959149

>>30958564
>royalty is an intrinsic value or some shit.
It is. The divine right of kings is very much a real thing in the books. It may be that Tolkien was inspired by Arthurian myth or perhaps simply his own monarchic leanings. I haven't got round to reading the history of middle earth series yet, so I've no idea how much the Arthurian mythos actually influenced his work.
I think the divine right of kings was a Christian idea, not being present in the Germanic mythos, though I might be mistaken.

>> No.30959156

>>30959060
Well, the ainur are basically the aristocracy of Creation.

>> No.30959273

>>30959149
>I haven't got round to reading the history of middle earth series yet, so I've no idea how much the Arthurian mythos actually influenced his work.
You know how he kind of set up his mythology as the "true" myths from ancient times that many others were based on and such?

Compare the scene where they send Boromir's corpse down the river in a boat with the scene where the Once and Future King is sent to Avalon via the same method.

I think the whole True King thing might just be because a whole lot of mythology in general has that as a base cultural assumption, rather than being specifically because the Arthurian mythos had it.

I'm not really sure what his biggest influences were, to be honest - Beowulf is an obvious one, but I've never really seen a list.
(He also liked the Finnish language, but I don't know how much of the Kalevala he actually read. Hmmm.)

>> No.30959293

>>30959149
Oh, king, eh, very nice. And how'd you get that, eh?
By exploiting the workers! By hanging on to outdated imperialist dogma which perpetuates the economic and social differences in our society!

>> No.30959313

>>30959149
>not being present in the Germanic mythos, though I might be mistaken
You probably aren't. The idea that might makes right was pretty big in Germanic societies up until Christianization. It's actually one of the major reasons early Ango-Saxon kings embraced Christianity so readily, the new god said that kings were his emissaries on Earth, while the old gods said kingship was something you've got to earn.

>> No.30959326

>>30959273
>I think the whole True King thing might just be because a whole lot of mythology in general has that as a base cultural assumption, rather than being specifically because the Arthurian mythos had it.
Also because Tolkien himself believed it.

>> No.30959348

>>30951831
>Dwarven Women

>> No.30959707

>>30959348
They have beards, if you wonder.

Most people don't know about them as a combination of said beards and them just not being outside all that much since there's so few of them. Gotta keep them safe and protected so your scarcity doesn't get worse, y'know.

>> No.30959791

>>30959326
[citation needed]

>> No.30959840

>>30959791
It's pretty well documented he was a hardcore monarchist.

He was a very weird one, who thought royalty should never actually do something, but a monarchist nonetheless.

>> No.30959889

>>30959840
>It's pretty well documented he was a hardcore monarchist.

Well, then it won't be hard to post a link to such a document

>> No.30959921

>>30959791
What, from all the rampant racism, patriarchal ideals and bible-pushing, you find the notion that he was a monarchist hardest to swallow?

>> No.30960029

>>30959921
>Tolkein
>rampant racism

You realise this tired old troll argument is not going to fool anybody right? There is nothing 'racist' about Lord of the Rings.

>> No.30960052

>>30959921

ley ebin orcs are brown ppl trell

>> No.30960259

>>30959707
There are no dwarf women. Just like there are no elf men. Now put two and two together.

>> No.30960268

well here's the basic rundown for a Seventh Age game I recently thought up;

The Fourth Age of the world ended badly, although that is an understatement, as the two great superpowers of the time, civilizations that we modern humans would probably call Atlantis & Lemuria were engaged in a great and terrible global war, Lemuria with it's armies of horrible monstrosities, and Atlantis with it's mighty Magical Artifacts who eventually ended the world as they knew it with a blasphemous device that tapped into The Music of The Ainur, and with one terrible primal scream of pain, anger, and sadness the very surface of the world was torn asunder, the earth left a frozen husk from which man would reemerge and start again, thus did the Fourth Age of the world end, and the Fifth began...

part 1 of ?

>> No.30960320

>>30959921
If youre looking for all that things look not for our jolly geezer Tolkien but for his pal, C.S. Lewis.
Seriously, Narnia series is all about that. I was actually pissed trying to read that for the second time. (The first time was when I was a kid, and then I didn't see anything wrong in this books. Thats one more reason to be pissed off right now)

>> No.30960370

>>30960029
Except that all the non-white foreign peoples are evil and in league with the Dark Lord?

>> No.30960433

>>30960370
Funny how that is not true. And even if it was a work is not 'racist' just because the people the good guys fight are a different race.

>> No.30960493

>>30960370

You know I'm kind of scared how we're entering an era where people twist and alter stories to fit the social sentiments of the day.

It's very Orwellian; that book said *THE N-WORD?* Where? I don't see it in print, clearly never happened.

Also there was always white privilege.

>> No.30960512

>>30960370
Because that's where the Dark Lord was hiding for, what, hundreds? thousands? of years. He had a lot of time to slowly bend the people there to his influence and convince them he was a god in a subtle, drawn out manner, because when he tried it in a still-subtle-but-far-less-so way with the westerners, those who didn't try to invade godland ended up kicking the shit out of him

>> No.30960833

>>30960512
Which implies the Southrons and Easterlings are of weaker will than the Not-Atlantean master race.

>> No.30960858

>>30960268
the Fifth Age lasted from the dawn of recorded history through the birth of Christ, while the Sixth Age lasted till the detonation of the first Atomic Bomb

our tale begins in the 19th century, a young archaeologist of noble descent, discovers the ruins of an Atlantean outpost, and bonds with a magical artifact from that era giving him a taste of true power, and physical immortality, and thus a new Dark Lord is born...

It is now the early 22nd century, and the Dark Lord has spent the last 200+ years preparing by gathering together various magical artifacts from civilizations across all 7 ages, as well as preparing an army of foul beasts of darkness from remnants of past ages as well as new horrors bred from combining old magics and modern technology, as well as the resouces of a major Mega-Corparation, and several nations that it covertly controls.

You have been selected to combat this great threat by The Blue Wizards, as you have that which makes you worthy, whether it be the blood of Kings, or Elves flowing within, or even just having the strong heart needed to triumph in these dark days that are coming...

part 2 of 2

>> No.30960897

>>30960858
0/10

>> No.30960927

>>30960897
you know just giving a number doesn't help anyone

>> No.30961148

>>30960493
Shit like that is why I'm glad that the censoring of Huckleberry Finn got so many parodies. I'm partial to the Hipster version, m'self.

> Jim was monstrous proud about it, and he got so he wouldn't hardly notice the other hipsters. Hipsters would come miles to hear Jim tell about it, and he was more looked up to than any hipster in that country. Strange hipsters would stand with their mouths open and look him all over, same as if he was a wonder. Hipsters is always talking about witches in the dark by the kitchen fire; but whenever one was talking and letting on to know all about such things, Jim would happen in and say, "Hm! What you know 'bout witches?" and that hipster was corked up and had to take a back seat.

> Jim always kept that five-center piece round his neck with a string, and said it was a charm the devil give to him with his own hands, and told him he could cure anybody with it and fetch witches whenever he wanted to just by saying to it; but he never told what it was he said to it. Hipsters would come from all around there and give Jim anything they had, just for a sight of that piece; but they wouldn't touch it, because the devil had had his hands on it.

>> No.30961371

>>30960858
Wether or not Tolkien stories were intented to be some form of our world mythology, I'm not a great fan of this idea. By expanding the setting, by coming up with things that may or may not happened tens of thousands years later we lose author's touch left on his works. People and their stories described by him become insignificant, given that scale. Something is missing, something is lost.
Of course, the books and world described by them is ours now and we can do whatever we want with it, but, consequently, we could do the same with your vision of Middle Earth future. And I don't like it.

tl;dr: 1/10

tl

>> No.30962486

I ran a game set in the 4th age where Eldarion (son of Aragorn) was king of Gondor and someone using one of the missing Palantiri to attack those trying to use the few remaining. (including Eldarion himself)

The party ends up tracking down the location of the two lost stones of arnor that fell into the icy waters of the Bay of Forochel. The campaign featured the return of Alatar (one of the blue wizards) and they were led to believe the villain was Pallando, however it turned out to be Maglor, who had been wandering Middle Earth since the first age, and now that Galadriel, Elrond, Gandalf, and all the "heavies of Middle earth are gone, he had come to ruin the lands of men and take the Palantiri (which he felt were his father's legacy and thus his.)

It was pretty fucking cool

>> No.30962623

>>30961148
Glorious.

>> No.30963532

>>30951903
>thriller

A thriller set in Middle Earth, you say? And...let's see, wasn't Sauron the lord of the Vampires or some'at in the Silmarillion? Clearly, /tg/, we need to run Night's Black Agents: Gondor Edition.

>> No.30964151

>>30954024
gr8 b8 m8

Seriously, frak you.

>> No.30966415

Bump

>> No.30969609

>>30960370
Not evil. The eastern folk followed Saron because he deceived them, frightened them, or controlled their leaders. There were some evil folk, but for the most part they were either being strong armed or had long - standing mundane grievances with Gondor.

Please keep your tumblr revisionism to yourself. Better people have tried and failed to argue that Tolkien was a racist.

>> No.30969622

>>30960833
Which is wrong, because he thoroughly corrupted them as well. And toppled the Northern kingdom. And toppled Numenor.

>> No.30969630

>>30951682
The preparation for a war that will end the 4rth age.

>> No.30969721

The Silmarills are found.

>> No.30970001

>>30969721
MOTHERFUCKING COCK-GOBLIN ASSCUNT MELKOR GIVE ME BACK THE GOD DAMN SILMARILS

>> No.30970276

>>30957625
>Curumo and Mairon are cellmates in Mandos' penitentiary for wayward maiar. Will Curumo's cunning and ingenuity help him keep a firm grip on his bar of soap when Gothmog smells fresh bitch meat? And can he count on Mairon's help either way?


I'd read it

>> No.30970394

>>30969721
>finding a Silmaril that's a star now

Pretty sure they know where it is, Anon. It's just a little impractical to try and nab it.

>> No.30970428

>>30958610
What does that make Rohan? Poland?

>> No.30970468

>>30970394
With the shaping of Earth after the fifth age in the seventh age some geologist or marine biology scientist find on or two of the none space faring silmarills.
This perhaps would lead into a Shadowrun like scenario.

>> No.30971270

>>30960927
Not that guy, BUUUUTTTT...
>Christianity was totally right, guys!
>Christianity's historical/mythic elements don't belong to Western Europe, which is where the kingdoms of Middle Earth are: they belong to the Near East.
>Not fleshing out the mythology of the Eastern kingdoms of men before advancing the setting to the modern era.
>Antiquarians not presenting the findings of an excavation to their relevant society? Archaeologists not publishing? Really? Do you even understand how academia works?
>Artifacts in Middle Earth do not grant immortality. They're far, far more subtle.
>The Dark Lord is an archaeologist? What is that supposed to imply within the mythos? That learning is evil?
>What have the Blue Wizards been doing for 200 years while Dr. Darklord, PhD has been gathering powerful artifacts? Jacking each other off?
>What artifacts has Dr. Darklord, PhD gathered? What do they do? Why should we be concerned, aside from the fact that those artifacts should be in a museum?
>How did Dr. Darklord, PhD come to lead a mega-corporation on an archaeologist's salary?
>Mega-corporations don't control nations. They have lobbyists, which is... kind of the same thing, actually. I'll let you off the hook on that one.
>So who else has the "blood of kings or elves", and why aren't THEY doing anything to help stop Dr. Darklord, PhD? And no, jacking the Blue Wizards off isn't "helping".

>> No.30972337

>>30951682
Sauron is gone and there isn't any big bad guy to take his place.

While there are a bunch of elves, dwarfs, humans and hobbits.

I would say that this is the perfect time for an evil campaign.
I

>> No.30972391

>>30960833
No you twat.
He managed to corrupt Numenor, the bestest kingdom of Men, and fucked over the northern kingdoms.
He was also hiding in the southeast and spreading his influence in those directions in a very subtle way for thousands of years, slowly turning people to him. If he'd tried the same thing with the Southrons and Easterlings as he had the Westrons, suddenly appearing out of nowhere as either a giant elf or a giant suit of armour shitting out magic and rings, they'd have beaten the shit out of him too.

>> No.30973845

Probably a dragon slaying quest. And the oldforests spread all the way back across Eriador at Elessar's command. But with with no Ents the Huorns are gonna start wildin out.

>> No.30976648

>>30954024
No, more like it actually is uninteresting. It is also entirely depressing to tell a story of how men return to evil so soon after sacrificing so much in the war against it.

>> No.30976669

>>30973845
>dragon slaying quest
And which dragons are to be slayed exactly? Some cold-drake in a faraway wasteland that no one inhabits?

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