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[ERROR] No.30673429 [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

Scholars of /Tg/, i would kindly ask for your opinions!

I want to math hammer out a "March Madness" type of bracket for all the best close combat specialists of 40k to see who comes out on top. I'm having trouble with the seeding though, and also need to know if I've made any glaring omissions.

I tried to use at least one named character from each codex (hence why straken and farsight made their way into the tournament) and made an effort to stay away from "created" characters like Iron Hands Smash Fucker (but was unable to do so with Necrons, as their named guys are less than stellar, so MSS overlord for them)

The Players and how i have them ranked (which is open to change):

Sweet Sixteen
1. Draigo
2. Abaddon
3. Mephiston
4. Skarbrand
5. Ghazghkull
6. Swarmlord
7. Lysander
8. Avatar
9. Belial
10. Logan
11. Kharn
12. Karandras
13. Vect (Drazhar?)
14. MSS Overlord with all the trimmings
15. Farsight
16. Straken


Rules:
100 fights each round,
-50 with Opponent A getting the charge, 50 with opponent B getting the charge.

No Shooting beforehand

No fleeing the combat, this fight is to the death

Pic Semi-related

>> No.30674563

I was with you up until
>No Shooting beforehand

I feel this need s a modification, make it one round of shooting as though moving for both before combat or even better a round of moving shooting for the charging character and a round of stationary shooting for the receiving character

>> No.30677876

>>30673429
Be'lakor should prob be in there somewhere. Bump Straken out at least

>> No.30679551

>>30677876
> Draigo
> Mephiston
> at the top
> with ap3 swords

>> No.30679668

>>30673429
>Vect
>#13

Vect is a close combat monster, man, with the ability to keep up with some of the big shots. Not as badass as he used to be due to AP3 now, but he's definitely higher on that list.

Drazhar's only good for flying around assaults punking the hidden powerfist before it can do anything.

>> No.30679726

>>30679551

Um, hey OP, how do yous go about figuring out psychic powers? Mephiston with Iron Arm, Endurance and Warp speed is an unstoppable smashfuck.

Or he rolls shit. What do?

>>30673429

You implying a night unstoppable and hard to wound blenderball topped with a psyker weapon is bad? One wound on a non Eternal Warrior USR dude and dead.

>> No.30679753

>>30679726

Oops. Flip those.

>> No.30679777

>>30673429
>1. Draigo
>2. Abaddon
>hey, I'm OP, and I have no idea how 40k works

>> No.30679811

If you're going to let a custom Necron Lord in, you might as well allow custom Space Marine heroes.

I'm pretty sure that either Abaddon or the Swarmlord (with Biomancy) is the strongest CC model in the game.

>> No.30679835

>>30679811
>>Swarmlord (with Biomancy)
You trying to start a whinefest? Cause thats how you start a whinefest

>> No.30679869

>>30679811
THE SWARMLORD CAN'T GET BIOMANCY ANYMORE CAUSE CRUDDACE DOESN'T KNOW WHAT THE FUCK HE'S DOING!!

>> No.30679874

>>30673429
OP,
you are aware that of the best named combat characters in 40k are: Skarbrand, Ghazghkull, Swarmlord, Abadoodle and Lysander. Followed by Draigo and the rest of your list. Draigo is only capable of beating Skarbrand and that's because of all the exclusive anti-daemon bullshit he pulls. Everyone else in your list sucks. Mephy will literally die to Skarbrand before he can even return fire (assuming that he has Iron Arm for EW T7-9 and the FNP ability).

TLDR
Skarbrand>all but draigo
Draigo>Skarbrand
T1 characters>Draigo

Clear?

>> No.30679876

>>30679835
> sepulchre raeopli
Yep, nids are in a grave.

>> No.30679881

>>30679835
I've been out of the loop for a while; did he get nerfed into the ground? I thought for a while he was the only model in 40k that could go toe-to-toe with Abaddon and win.
>>30673429
Does SoB still have their respawning saint? You should put her in. Not really sure how you'd handle the respawn though.

>> No.30679927

>>30679869
> yfw swarmlold was introduced by Curddace himself.

>> No.30679996

>>30679874
>Skarbrand>all but draigo
You sure Abadoodle can't handle Skarbrand? Abadoodle hits harder, swings more often, and has a better save.

>> No.30680346

>>30679996
What weapon do you want Abaddon to use?
Daemon weapon or Talon?

Also:
Skarbrand has higher weaponskill, wounds everything on 2s, has more base attacks, higher I, and wound count.

That said, I can do the easy math for a purely average roll on the weapon weapon.

On a roll of 3 for daemon weapon Abby does 0.8888888 wounds to skarbrand.
With Skarbrand's hatred, he does 1.3333
On a roll of 6 for Daemon weapon with hatred Abby does 1.66666 wounds to skarbrand.
Talon does 1.62 normally and 2.43 on hatred

Skarbrand hits first dealing 1.94 wounds and goes up to 2.59 with hatred.
In addition, skarbrand massively benefits (+2 A) from charging(3.33 with hatred), whereas abaddon gains potentially no benefit with his sword and only hits 2.916 wounds with hatred and his talon.

Skarbrand has more wounds and gets to attack first every round (except for the first if he charged into area terrain).

Abaddon dies, but wins in 40k because he's actually good in more than just melee combat.

Any questions?

>> No.30680410

OP present, sorry for the delay, kids and being responsible and what not.

I should have prefaced by saying I play nids and iron warriors so my knowledge with most of these guys is based on my encounters with them.

Draigo is number one thanks to eternal warrior 2+ 3++, str 10 against demons and Psykers (both represented here), master crafted (albeit ap 3) sword, and has solid stats. He gets a slight edge on mephiston and abaddon Thanks to a better invulnerable save (abby) and eternal warrior (mephiston)

Skarbrand should be moved up, I agree, but do you guys think he is worthy of the one seed? I hate to be dense but does he have a 2+ save, I'm on my cell so can't check.

Regarding Psychic Powers, meph will stick to his codex Powers for simplicity sake (rolling each round for biomancy powers...yikes)

the mss overlord is there simply because there were no good close combat named characters in their codex.

St Celestine (sp?) Is a good catch. I might have to throw smash fucker in there just for shits, but then there needs to be a bye for one of the higher ranked dudes.

Vect is ranked lowly because toughness 3 and no eternal warrior. Once that shield pops he's dead to most of these guys instantly.

Should I drop all skarbrand all together? If that's the case what should the seeding be?


Got to go, bath time. ...Thank you for the feed back guys, this is great.

>> No.30680488

>>30680410
For pure combat potential, skarbrand kills everyone one the list who isn't named draigo.
That said, draigo loses to abby, ghaz, Lysander, and biomancy swarmlord.


If you're looking at usefulness in a list I don't think skarbrand should even be on the charts as he's fucking awful.

Skar lacks a 2+, but I10 WS10, wounding on 2+ with 7+ attacks that all have ID means if you aren't EW you die.
He also has a S5 flamer if there is shooting to be had.

IMO combat wise he's number 1.

>> No.30680730

>>30680410
Oh! I've never done the math for it, but how does a BT with grimoire(so 3++ save) and reroll failed ++ saves and ID melee attacks fare? Oh! Make it a KoS!

Actually: there's a question for /tg/: what is the deadliest/best possible loadout for a bloodthirster and is a KoS better for this scenario because Psychic powers would totally turn shit around in it's favor hard?

>> No.30680794

>>30673429
Juggermaut Khorne Lord can beat anything in 1v1.

>> No.30680822

>>30680794
>No EW
nice troll.
Move along now.

>> No.30680863

>>30680488
Until he meets a generic lord with MSS and kills himself.

This will happen a little more than 50% of the time. Thats why all of this is pointless.

>> No.30680883

>>30680822
Your point. When he rolls up to 10(not counting charge) basic attacks at ap 2 at high enough initiative to kill most things before they strike back. Yea I'd say he deserves to be up there. And being under 200 points is a plus.

>> No.30681581

>>30680863
Very true. Unfortunately the other 50% of the time he dies instantly. Mr. MSS dies to anyone who can't off themselves in one hit and dreadnoughts.

Most people don't include MSS lords in these things. Still, OP made the rules.

>> No.30682372

Yeah, I know all too well the stupidity that is mind shackle scarabs. To be fair, that's their only hope In cc, doesn't really make it hurt any less though. I might switch him out for the Saint, to at least keep with the named theme. Is the IA necron over lord any good in cc? Flayer King I think?

The caveat of no monstrous creatures might work... Though that fucks over nids and demons...

This is a lot more complicated than I originally thought. ..

>> No.30682927

>>30673429

Draigo: Shit
Abaddon: 2nd-3rd best in game
Mephiston: Shit
Skarbrand: I'm actually not sure about this because he's so rare. I remember he is a beast in assault.
Ghazghkull: 2nd best in WAAGH mode for maximum turns, shit without
Swarmlord: First/second best.
Lysander: Fairly high among the best.
Avatar: Shit
Belial: Shit
Logan: Shit
Kharn: Shit
Karandras: Shit
Vect: Shit
MSS Overlord: Ranges from best to shit depending on luck.
Farsight: Extreme shit why is this even on the list I already knew OP was stupid but goddamn
Straken: Same as bove.

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