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30560332 No.30560332 [DELETED]  [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

Why has the world-threatening, evil BBEG of your 3.X game not been hunted down and slain by a CR 23 solar angel, who protects the world and slays the greatest evils?

What is the in-universe reason?

>Blessed with an array of magical powers and the spellcasting abilities of the most powerful clerics, solars are powerful opponents capable of single-handedly slaying mighty evils. They are the greatest trackers among the celestials, the most masterful of which are said to be able to track the days-old wake of a pit fiend flying through the Astral Plane.

>Some take on the mantle of monster-slayers and hunt powerful fiends and undead such as devourers, night hags, night shades, and pit fiends, even making forays into the evil planes and the Negative Energy Plane to destroy these creatures at their source before they can bring harm to mortals. A few very old solars have succeeded at this task and bear slayer-names of dread creatures that are now extinct by the solar's hand.

>Solars accept roles as guardians, usually of fundamental supernatural concepts, or objects or creatures of great importance. On one world, a group of solars patrols the energy conduits of the sun, alert for any attempts by evil races such as drow to snuff out the light and bring eternal darkness. On another, seven solars stand watch over seven mystical chains keeping evil gods bound within a prison demiplane. On yet another, a solar with a flaming sword stands watch over the original mortal paradise so that no creature may enter.

Why isn't a single specimen of the greatest of the angels doing the world a service and expending 1/1,000,000 of their effort to kill the BBEG?

>> No.30560357

Because they ARE the BBEG!

>> No.30560361
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30560361

>>30560357

>> No.30560371
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30560371

>>30560332
Because he eats solars for breakfast. Or rather, that's how he dings.

>> No.30560431

Same reason Superman doesn't use his super-speed to stop all crime forever. Humanity would depend on them and never be able to fend for themselves. They're too busy guarding things and holding off the hordes of hell, so they only get called in for the things not even epic adventurers can handle.

Also it would ruin the game and I don't play 3.5

>> No.30560436

There's a few ways this can work. In some settings, solars are busy keeping Balors and Pit Fiends in check and can't spare their attention for events on the material plane. In some settings, they just don't know. Keep in mind, they are powerful but they don't know everything.

In my setting, it's because it takes a amazing amount of divine power to allow a Solar or other angel to exist in the Mundi rather then in the Astral, and Gods typically expend their power helping their worshipers and safeguarding their temples in more efficient ways. And having a solar blast down from the heavens in a wash of light tends to weaken the fabric of reality and allow demons into the Mundi.

My game is all about the limitations of gods and divinity in this homebrew setting though.

>> No.30560491

Because the Solar Angel has been defeated and is being used as a blasphemous power source of the BBEG's MacGuffin, intent on conquering the world with the power of God itself.

>> No.30560532

>>30560332

Because 'world threatening' is small time compared to the hordes of hell that the Solar has to deal with (and is currently dealing with) on a daily basis.

>> No.30560557

>>30560332

Hell, there's even reasons in your post as to why the Solar would be busy. They're sworn to guard Specific Thing, and nothing and nobody will pull them away from that duty.

>> No.30560602

>>30560532
This makes me imagine high level creatures and characters sitting in a dingy bar telling low level adventurers they don't know how good it is.

"Oh.. You've got to rescues a merchant's daughter that was kidnapped by goblins. That's such a big deal. Going to go out tomorrow? Yeah, I bet you have that wrapped up by noon, get in before nightfall and have a big fucking party to celebrate."

"You know what I do? I do a hundred hour week fighting horrors that would fucking kill you if you looked at them. Just one goddamn look and you'd go insane and shit yourself or turn to fucking stone and there's a goddamn billion of them on the dark side of the moon trying to build a portal to come here. But no, go rescue your fucking baronette or whatever you were doing. I don't have time for more then one drink anyway because I have to go fight more cosmic horrors, and nobody gives me a metal and a blowjob when I'm done!"

>> No.30560677

In one campaign: There is no Celestia. The only planes are the Astral, Shadow, and Material. There are no angels, or demons, or even gods.
Well, there was a god, but he died. Of old age. And no one liked him anyway.

In the other: Solars are the judges of plane-spanning criminals, not hunter-killers of solely the Material. Also they're LN and not angels.

>> No.30560883

>>30560557
>They're sworn to guard Specific Thing, and nothing and nobody will pull them away from that duty.

But those are only the solars who are guardians.

Other solars are monster hunters.

>> No.30560945

>3.x
>use Shitfailer version of the solar writeup

I found your problem.

>> No.30561082

>>30560945
3.X includes Pathfinder.

3.P is part of 3.X.

>> No.30561257

>>30560602
I especially like this idea. They're just too busy fighting in the wider universe to care or help. Though personally I love having the Heavens show up in my campaigns.

I once played as an Aasimar Paladin who was born and grew up on Mount Celestia. When he visited the Prime he was extremely surprised when some one tried to pay him for his heroism with street pavement.

>> No.30561351

>>30561257
>I once played as an Aasimar Paladin who was born and grew up on Mount Celestia.

Sounds Mary sue as fuck.

>> No.30561370

>>30561351
1. That is not what the word means.
2. I'm pretty sure in Planescape thats not even a very uncommon occurrence. Its a world full of both angels and mortal beings, Aasimar aren't so much a miracle as a foregone conclusion.
3. The rest of the party was an Awakened Cat, a Water Elemental, and a few other things I forget.

>> No.30561389

>>30560371
That is the lowest quality image I have seen in a long time

>> No.30561392

Because I find lower-scale stories more interesting than world-shaking ones - stories about single cities or nation-states dealing with infighting, politics, crime and the like. Too small for angels too deal with.

>> No.30561401
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30561401

>>30560332
Because my settings tend to be cruel, uncaring worlds where the Gods are, at best, impotent. At worst, they ARE the BBEG. Or completely unconcerned so long as the sacrifices and offerings keep flowing.

Either that, or we have what I like to call the "Thomas Covenant Rule". The universe is so fragile, and the Gods so powerful that their merest touch would shatter the Arch of Time and unmake all things. So they have to trust in free will and the goodness of the Human Heart in order to save the world, with them only able to cheer from the sidelines.

>> No.30561488

>>30560332
B/C they're busy fighting EVIL versions of Solars instead of dealing with silly goblins or even warlords.

Think of it this way: Why doesnt the prime minister / president of your country swoop in and use 1/1000th of his power to fix the potholes in your street? B/C he has way more important things to do with their time.

>> No.30561496

>>30561370
Awakened cats and water elementals are awesome and cool.

Mary Sue angel paladins aren't.

>> No.30561516

>>30561488
>B/C they're busy fighting EVIL versions of Solars instead of dealing with silly goblins or even warlords.

And if the BBEG is threatening the world?

>> No.30561535

>>30561516
One world out of a million. Nothing of value was lost.
Call us when the entire Prime is at stake.

>> No.30561543

/because they're part of the great Bureaucracy that's keeping the universe going, and they know if they upset the apple cart for their respected opposites on the other side of the table, then everything they ALL worked for in imprisoning the gods so that they basically remain just batteries the universe runs would be for nothing.

The gods? Good for founding the place, bad for business. They kept up thier bickering and petty rivalries, thier holy wars and feuds, it was getting impossible to make things work constantly, much less allow for the servants of the gods to have thier own wants or needs fulfilled. So both the celestials and infernals made a pact and sealed their lieges away, letting them run the shop in relative peace and prosperity for all. The gods have been absent for more than 10,000 years.

TLDR- Because they have a vested interest in seeing the universe be well run, not in it being the way they wish it was.

>> No.30561574

>>30561516
then they'll go deal with it?

If you're familiar with the DC/Marvel universe, it sorta operates the same way. Most crime is dealt with by police or individual friendly neighborhood super hero. Only cosmic beings and super-teams deal with the big stuff when needed

>> No.30561601

Because they ARE fighting the BBEG, and it's crushing them.

>> No.30561619

>>30561496
If you cant' appreciate heavenly imagery or religious iconography or angelic hierarchies, thats your loss man.

>> No.30561633

I was recently inspired to create a setting wherein the reason that high angels and the gods of goodness don't do shit is explained.

Basically, the world is in tatters due to there once being an all out brawl between the gods of good and evil, which the good gods lost. They were beaten so thoroughly that they were rendered as statues, which the evil gods sealed within various temples with all matter of demons and magic to insure that nobody ever tried to wake them.

The idea is that the PCs are chosen to absorb the powers of those gods as they awaken them and ascend to become gods themselves, with each released essence giving them control of increasingly strong celestial beings.

>> No.30561634

>>30560332
Because D&D is Dumb.

>> No.30561636
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30561636

>half of the thread's arguments are "but solars are too strong to handle the weak threats"

Angel, Cassisian: CR 2
Angel, Choral: CR 6
Angel, Balisse: CR 8
Angel, Movanic Deva: CR 10
Angel, Monadic Deva: CR 12
Angel, Astral Deva: CR 14
Angel, Planetar: CR 16
Angel, Solar: CR 23

There's an angel for every power level.

Surely the heavens can spare some of its weaker angels to handle the weaker threats?

>> No.30561653

>>30561634
Using Pathfinder as an example of why D&D is dumb is pretty dumb.

>> No.30561654

>>30560332

Because my BBEG is Zarus.
'nuff said.

>> No.30561656

>>30561535
>implying that there are millions of worlds but only one little tiny bunch of celestial planes

The planes are LITERALLY INFINITE in size.

>> No.30561661

>>30561636
Sure, let's remove free agency from the multiverse and turn it all into heaven! That's a totally good act, right?

>> No.30561675

>>30561661
When demons and devils and elementals and Far Realm bullshit and weirder shit is trying to take over the world...

Yes, intervention is totally justified.

>> No.30561680

>>30561661
>>30561636
Its more that theres an equal or larger number of demons in the cosmos, so the angelic hierarchy is often too buys in planar wars to help.

>> No.30561684

>>30561082

OP's problem EXCLUSIVELY applies to Pathfinder's take on solars, is the thing.

In general, PF's crunch and fluff makes everything more retarded.

>> No.30561712

>>30561684
Correct me if I'm wrong, but that's the way solars are in generic 3.5 fluff too.

>> No.30561717

>>30561656
And interlocked in conflict with equally infinite planes of evil, yes.

>> No.30561768
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30561768

>>30560332
Post-Apocalyptic Fantasy setting, literally takes place after Ragnarok. The gods and giants are all dead (Their rotting corpses literally dot the landscape), and the majority of their surviving servants are kind of wandering around aimlessly now that their masters no longer exist. Some of them become petty Dictators who really have no real idea what to do with their power other than fight other celestials.

Oh, and the BBEG of the general setting is Surtr, who can be seen from almost anywhere in the country, sitting on a black throne carved from a mountain and wielding a sword of molten flame. I may have made him a Khorne knockoff.

>> No.30561796

>>30560332

Well, OP.
Theoretically they could act, and -would- act, but under normal circumstances they won't in my setting.
This is because the forces of "good and evil" at the moment are in a sort of a cold war after a war that pretty much devastated the multiverse. There is an accord between deities: "If you don't get involved directly, I won't either."
So, while Solars & co. do get on planes just as much demons and devils do, it's still a very small amount as they cannot get involved directly in the matters of the mortals. They can aid, providing help of sort, granting divine powers, healing, and whatever. But they won't be able to act in first line, least it would breach the cold war going on, and shit would go down even worse than before. Only demons seems to not give a fuck, getting involved once in a while.

>> No.30561844

>>30561712

The closest is that it says some seek to eliminate particular kinds of wrongdoing, which is extremely distinct from eliminating particular kinds of *wrongdoers*.

PF's take on them proposes a massive overabundance of solars which just rubs me the wrong way.

>> No.30562419

Because even the threat of that would result in something like the cosmic equivalent of the Cuban Missile Crisis between the gods of good and evil. Instead they use mortal heroes and villains to engage in good old proxy warfare.

Also because our BBEG would probably kill the damn thing with one punch

>> No.30562502

>good gods send a solar to smite a minor cult leader
>evil gods send a balor to butcher a friendly neighborhood priest
>they start fighting
>everyone sends reinforcements
>planet is rendered lifeless within a month

>> No.30562514

>>30560332
Because gods use other assets in prime material, like clerics and other adventurers.

>> No.30562538

>>30561684
Your opinion is noted.

>> No.30562576

>>30560332
They don't want a pit fiend/eremite orvelord/balor/etc. To manifest and aid the effort of the BBEG?

Or maybe they do you just didn't notice. Who knows if the drive of your heroes to do good isn't because a solar sacrificed itself millions of years ago to seed the planet with good and holy power.

You kind of left that part and the undercover solars redeeming whole worlds and whatnot out of the solar description actually.

>> No.30562608

>>30562576
>You kind of left that part and the undercover solars redeeming whole worlds and whatnot out of the solar description actually.

>your efforts were meaningless

>the solar's conspiracy to redeem the world spans millions of other adventurers who can do the job just as well

Feels bad, man.

>> No.30562644

>>30562608
>Implying the goodly mentor who taught your paladin wasnt the Solar.

Why would the solar feel bad though, his pleasure is the redemption of the world, how its done is a minor detail. Hell, I'd think it would be more pleased that the people of said world can now stand up for themselves and don't need interference.

>> No.30562652

>>30562608
>The solar's conspiracy requires millions of adventurers, all doing good, to succeed. You are one of them.

Feels good.

>> No.30562653

Because if the angles bend the rules and just do as they please, so can the devils and demons and daemons and worse things.

The outer planes work off a system of checks and balances and failure to abide by them will crash the system. Since the system is predicated on forces the angels and demons have no control over, it is in ones best interest not to allow he other free reign either. Even demons understand that an overwhelming number of angels will make their work harder.

>> No.30562896

>>30562653
>angles
>bend the rules
I laughed.

>> No.30562950

The Solar is at war with the army of nuetronium golems being kept just barely out of range of annihilating our world by accident.

The least we can do is hunt down this lich and stop him from turning children into undead soldiers.

>> No.30563308

For the same reason that all the clerics and paladins of good gods don't get hunted down by fucking pit fiends while they're still level 1

>> No.30563713

>>30563308
Why aren't they hunted down by the five gazillion CR 2 dretches the Abyss has to spare?

>> No.30563751

>>30560332
Ancient pact to prevent all-out war.

Basically, if solar does one good thing, hell is free to do one evil thing of same caliber and vice-versa.
So, smiting world-threatening BBEG would untie demons' hands to make life in setting shitty for EVERYONE.
And that's why they set adventurers. They're deniable assets.

>what? A bunch of plucky adventurers killed Xazzaxarax the Bony? Nope, not us. Yes, one of them was cleric and one paladin- so what? We don't watch where every single miracle goes. Well, you can ask our bookkeeper, but you'll have to fill forms 2345478, 455628K and 309 and wait at least 1000 years while we're searching.

>> No.30565511

>>30563713
Dretches be lazy.

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