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[ERROR] No.30427811 [DELETED]  [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

So Tyranid players...I've just gotten pushed back into the scene by some of my other friends. I haven't played 4th edition but I'm finding this new codex pretty underwhelming. You guys found anything really solid from it yet?

tl;dr: My friends are beating me to shit what should I put in my tyranid army for 6th edtion

>> No.30427896

Tyranids got nerfed twice in a row. They were too good in 4E so toned down in 5E. Then for whatever reason they made them even worse in 6E.

>> No.30427928

Enjoy the beatings, become their slut.

>> No.30427962

I...I guess I have to, shame the new Ork Codex isn't out yet, I only have a small (750 Point) list of them. Guess I'll have to tough it out, become their slut or play small Ork games.

>> No.30427995

I'm not at my PC yet, but here is a strong german tyranid list that actual has won a big tournament there. I can translate it later but here is the original link: http://www.40kings.de/2014/02/12497/

>> No.30428012

flyrants w/ dual devourers


30 gaunts + tervigons

Whatever HS you like

maybe a venomthrope or 2

>> No.30428088

My friends just told me about the Doom of Malin'tai and how it got taken out. I think I might cry. I heard stories about it but after reading its entry it seemed like one of the only things we had.

>> No.30428130

Its ok anon.

Its ok

its not your fault

>> No.30428149


Mycetic spores and Parasite of Mortrex also got taken out.

Like someone said, Tyranids just received nerf after nerf after nerf. Entire units got removed and points increased for no reason whatsoever. Bad units got WORSE for NO REASON. Let that sink in. You're not just bad. You're EXTRA BAD. FOR NO REASON.

>> No.30428152

More 'gaunts, more 'fexes, more flyers - Either winged tyrants or some of the new bugs. FAQ's make them pretty hilarious. Tyranids tend to win on objectives and by sending in too many targets.

Make sure you have Malanthropes to give shrouded to fucking everything on the table. More than one, that means, maybe in multiple squads to make them more annoying to shoot.

>> No.30428177

Ok after doing some more reading, Biovores seem pretty decent still. Not like exceptionally good but I feel like I could still use mine.

>> No.30428194

Ok after doing some more reading, Biovores seem pretty decent still. Not like exceptionally good but I feel like I could still use my old squad of 3.

>> No.30428200

Our heavy support slot is the only good one

Biovores, Tyrannofexes, Mawlocs and Exocrines are all solid, the only bad ones are fexes

>> No.30428217


Thanks 4chan

>> No.30428329

Looks like a pretty typical Synapse/Shrouded Bastion list except for the random Genestealers and Raveners.

>spamming single Biovores

>> No.30428384

Stick an aegis defence line in the middle of the board, then get shrouded from venomthrope.

I don't play nids, but I've seen that alleviate nid casualties on ocassion.

>> No.30428386

I'll Agree there, I can take a lot of crap but losing the Doom, Spores and Yglrmal because they couldn't monopolise a unit they refused to make was just straight up bullshit

>> No.30428475

>on occasion

Sorry, but "My army is occasionally not complete shit" doesn't cut it.

>> No.30428673

If anyone is still here what Psychic power should my flyrant have?

>> No.30429025

What do you mean 'should have'? You only get to specifically choose +6 inch synapse, which is helpful, though shouldn't be relied on since it could leave more gribblies taking instinct checks when the enemy inevitably masses their firepower on him

>> No.30429186

6e was a buff not a nerf. Unless you ran that one monolist of tervigon spam.

Its not up too 4e nidzilla level but still better than the 5e dex.
More than half the units got cheaper and stayed the same or where buffed(such as gaunts, venomthropes, lictors). A few more where buffed but stayed the same cost (warriors for example).

Over all an army will br 10-15% in points cheaper but still have the same performance.

The changes too instinctive behavior are greatly overblown. Now they're only useless part of the time instead of all the time like the 3 editions before.

>> No.30429392

>Unless you ran that one monolist of tervigon spam.

Oh, you mean the only tournament-viable list 5e had?

Tell me, did the "buff" help make non-tervie spam armies suddenly tournament viable, or just allow a player to put more models on the table and still lose?

>> No.30429414

You keep saying this but you're actually wrong.

6e was a tremendous nerf.

The units that got cheaper generally got WORSE, be it rules changes on scything talons, or instinctive behavior changes

The minor points drops do not make up for these massive loses, like not longer getting re-rolls with 2 scything talons or, re-rolls on 1s with basic talons

The army does not have the same performance because the Tyranid Psychic powers are greatly weakened compared to you know, Biomancy. Its not horrid, but Biomancy in general was far stronger than the tyranid hive mind powers and almost every power was useful in some way. The tyranid hive mind powers are generally weaker.

The changes to IB ARE NOT greatly overblown, before a unit with feed would start charging 100% of the time, now it does it 50%, and the other 50% its EATING ITSELF, the lurk units are significantly worse as well, because instead of holding objectives your termagants have a 50% chance to go running off the board like retards.

The tyranids are worse in every single way, our strong units like hive guards and Tervigons took significant nerfs to their functionality, and while there were minor buffs to the Mawloc and the Flyrants, they aren't that significant, the flyrant was already auto-include.

The only changes that are buffs are the addition of the crone, new shadows, and the MASSIVE points decrease of the Tyrannofex to make it takeable.

Nothing else was good enough for a serious mention.

Incontrol placed 12th, and 6e in the hands of blackmore placed 26th. Thats proof of loss of power

You really need to stop spouting this bullshit in every thread, it is entirely fallacious, we lost performance across the board, and the minor points decreases do not make up for how insanely crippling IB is now, nor do they make up the loss of Biomancy, Telekinesis, and Telepathy, all those fields gave much more utility to the nids, hell, the Telepathy Primaris scream is better than our rolled for scream.

>> No.30429436

>Scything talons that do fucking nothing.

Tell me more about those sweet buffs.

>> No.30429463

I think were dropped less from spite and more because the chapter house ruling meant that CH owned the trademark for spores and Doom. Mwaning GW could get sued for producing their own version now. It'd be a big legal mess anyway and its understandable why they wanted too avoid it.

>> No.30429535

They give you sweet sweet ap 6.

>> No.30429559

Ah dude, they're AP6 now! Your Hormagaunts can kill 16% more Orks, Kroot and other Gaunts! Rerollable misses? Pfft, that shit was so situational.

>> No.30429680

How about you actually play some games with the new dex and you'll see what I mean.
Overall its a better codex. Not all we wanted sure but still absolutely an improvement. Just ask any nid player who has actually played with it.

>> No.30429733

Im still not sure if the price increase for rippers is any indication for a massive buff for swarms next edition

>> No.30429750

i HAVE played with it you shit.

Everyone on the net agrees its a fucking loss. We got nerfed even more and you need to shut the fuck up and smell the shit, because its all around you.

If you honestly, truly think this dex is better than 5e, then you need a hole in your head.

Yes, the internal balance is 'better', but its still shitty internal balance when i can easily point out the best units in an FOC slot, and when it is downright weaker than the last editon

>> No.30429782


I like how all the clueless faggots' only responses are "just play with the book" when we've been playing for months. The pros have been playing for months. Multiple major GTs have already ended.


>> No.30429788

NPC races should have a weaker codex anyway.

>> No.30429801

codex hasnt even been around for months

>> No.30429823

its been around over a month, thats long enough.

Reminder that the fucking dark angels won a tournament post release, the nids haven't

>> No.30429877

This whole "play a few games with the codex" excuse has really worn out. It's been over a month since the codex release and people have tried various lists and still find themselves being destroyed.

Anyone with half a brain when fighting Tyranids knows to target the Synapse creatures first, this coupled with the new Instinctive Behaviour rules really destroys alot of the Tyranids functionality.

Tyrants, along with any other MC minus the Tyrannofex, cannot take Armoured shell, which means footslogging across a battlefield littered with AP1 2 and 3 weapons, or in the Tyrants case, taking wings which means you have to fly to make enemies take snap shots (unless the army has decent skyfire, which lets be honest is every army due mostly to allies).

Psychic powers? Most are useless and have taken a severe hit due to random generated and no longer having BRB powers.

Most bio-morphs really don't help. Most are too pts heavy for the majority of your units and as I said before, Ap 1-3 weapons are too common.

Every other army has just too much access to stuff that can easily kill our big monsters.

Just because we got some new units and maybe one or two new upgrades doesn't mean it's a good codex. Can't also forget Tyranids lost the ability to deepstrike in pods.

If the nids had access to Drop pods, Biomancy and maybe the choice to choose whether we want 2+ MC's then maybe this codex might be strong.
As it is, the negatives really outweigh the positives.

>> No.30429889

Better Codex? Really?

Where's my Living Ammo? My Without Number? What about Feeder Tendrils, Implant Attack, Extended Carapace, Bonded Exoskeleton, Reinforced Chitin, Enhanced Senses, Tusks, Lashwhips that actually do anything? Zoanthropes and Lictors that don't come in fucking broods but are just 1-3 individual units in a single FoC slot? Carnifexes that spawn Spore Mines? Leaping Warriors? Hormagaunts with better WS than a fucking Guardsman? Termagants with Fleet or Scout? Lictors that actually assault the turn they arrive like they're supposed to?

How about fluff that doesn't fucking suck? How about, not a goddamn page called "Bio-Artefacts" that are not only retarded fluff-wise but also useless overcosted garbage in the game? How about not Special Characters in a race that breeds every single monster using genetic engineering and cloning and then dissolves them in acid after they're done killing everything on the planet?

>> No.30429891

i really hate how much Ap 1-2-3 bloat the game has. Did we really need Grav-guns to be better plasma guns? To fuck over high T MCs more? Its fucking stupid

>> No.30429905

Its been around for about 8 weeks. Thats two months in non-pedantic-sperglord speak.

Not to mention any wargamer worth his salt can look over a codex in a few hours and see whats good

>> No.30429915


>> No.30429924

>Incontrol placed 12th, and 6e in the hands of blackmore placed 26th. Thats proof of loss of power
No it isn't. All kinds of random shit can go down at tourneys, and the reason they allowed both was that the 6th ed codex was too new for a lot of players to have really got to use. It hardly proves one is definitely better than the other.

>> No.30429944

it does when you look at the fucking players handling the armies

>> No.30429946

It's alright, it motivates me to fix the problem with the best fandex in 40k history.

>> No.30429992

Here's your without number.

>> No.30430008

>taking options out of the codex and selling them as DLC
Nid issues aside, this is just Grade A bullshit from geedubya.

>> No.30430030

Oh hey, it's still worse than the one available to the fucking Imperial Guard. On a £16 DLC!

Better than nothing, I suppose.

>> No.30430039

4/6 units in that suck, its not fucking worth it

>> No.30430058

It'd be nice if it actually worked reliably.

>> No.30430061

Oh my god, /tg/ is so bad at 40k. This is hilarious. 4/6 bad options.... bahahahahah`

>> No.30430064

It's part of what's wrong with 40k. Most armies has easy access to powerful, yet cheap hvy weapons. And if they don't have access, then they can just take an allied force to provide that.

Hell, I went to my LGS the other day and saw between three matches of 40k 6 Riptides...nobody though actually played Tau!

>> No.30430073

I think tyranids can be good and playable, the only problem I keep having is tau
I still don't know how to beat fucking tau

>> No.30430092

Yes, Warriors suck, and hormagaunts are shit.

did you not know this about nids? To take that formation we have to take 4 broods that are shitty to get 2 decent broods for a shitty without number

>> No.30430099

You cannot beat Tau.

tau shit on nids so hilariously hard

>> No.30430132

Not the guy you're replying to, but I have now played sixteen games with the new dex, of which I have won two and got tabled eight times. The wins were against a Deathwing army and a Thousand Sons chaos force. I am willing to accept the possibility that I just suck, but still, that's a horrible quota.
Oh, but losing isn't so bad as long as you're having fun, right? Except I never had fun in ANY of those games, because everybody knows about our shitty synapse limitations and usually blows any SC off the table on turn one. And no, a shooty army will have no problem doing that.

>> No.30430153

>everybody knows about our shitty synapse limitations and usually blows any SC off the table on turn one
Tell your opponents to be more cinematic.

>> No.30430165

why, they're just forging a narrative

everyone knows that you shoot the big ones

>> No.30430167

So let me get this straight.
Instead of Without Number allowing you to bring destroyed units back onto the field at the start of the next turn/break we now need to roll a 4+ ?

That's just stupid. even worse, if you fail to roll the 4+ that unit is then gone for the rest of the game!
Hormaguants and Warriors are both useless even in Apocalypse.

>> No.30430177


>> No.30430182 [DELETED] 

It works exactly the same as it did in thr old 4E book. Except it doesn't cost 3 points per model.

>> No.30430198

But it ends...

>> No.30430203

>Tau fluff out-adapts you
>DKoK Assault Brigade out-swarms you

Being Tyranids must suck.

>> No.30430205


>> No.30430207

In every Tyranid novel or game, there's always one guy shouting 'FOCUS FIRE ON THE MONSTROSITIES'

>> No.30430211

I think warriors might be good if we find a good combo, like putting them in the back of a first wave of gaunts, and putting a venomtrophe with them, giving the warriors a 3+ cover on the open.
hormagaunts are still good, got a point reduction and they can still hurt badly many enemies, adrenal glands and poison are 2 good buffs that can make them a big threat (adrenal make them a good tank destroyers thanks to glancing; poison make them a threat for armies like nurgle marines, wraiths etc.)
but the formation sucks
yeah, guess I'll have not to play againts them
we only have 2 tau players here, one is a total bro who plays a fuckton of kroots because why not, the other is a fat kid who bought the riptide/broadside bundle

>> No.30430216

This is out now, isn´t it?

>> No.30430221

Don't forget

>Eldar out MC you
>Daemons out assault you
>Avatar of Khaine jobs more than hive tyrants
>Heldrake is a better FMC because its not an FMC
>Every single superheavy we have is ass

Tyranids are stellar are precisely zero things, everything we can do another race does better

>> No.30430223

I like how this makes the Trygon Tunnel at least halfway decent in theory....

>> No.30430227

"The Hive Tyrant! We destroy that, and this is over!"
"Nice one, lads. Another planet saved. Now let's leave the rest of them to eat each other and go get the beers in."

>> No.30430228

AFAIR, Without Number just worked. This works on a 4+

>> No.30430229

Warriors will never be good in this dex and this edition, high str that ignore cover isn't hard to find right now

>> No.30430242


It's afraid...IT'S AFRAID!

>> No.30430243

Don't forget that Guard and Orks probably outswarm you.

>> No.30430245

Even more funny is the fact that unless you leave Synapse behind or the warriors manage to return, your guants and gants will return outside of synapse meanings a high chance of them killing themselves/hiding

>> No.30430251


Tyranids are the best at not functioning properly as a playable army.

>> No.30430258

what weapons do that? riptide does, but wave serpent has only strenght 7 that ignores cover
what else has strenght 8 or more and ignores cover?

>> No.30430260

Oh, Neil Patrick Harris, you delightful bastard, you.

>> No.30430263

Don't forget that even if you pass, that unit comes in from your edge on the table on the next turn, i.e. as far away from the enemy as possible. A unit meant for CC or close-ranged shooting, I might add. Oh, and unless you have a babysitting Synapse Creature in the back of your field, they are instantly subject to the IB shenanigans.
Subterranean Assault might work, I guess.

>> No.30430269

Nid players are like rogues after vanilla.
After having shit swing their way for so long, they finally got balanced and now everyone bitches about how there "unplayable" now they aren't a romp-n-stomp charge and insta-kill combo.

>> No.30430274

Hi we're riptides

hi we're markerlights

hi we're barrage weaponry

>> No.30430280

>shit swing out way for so long
you mean our decent 3rd ed dex, and then our strong but not insanely so 4th ed dex before we went back to the bottom.

Remind me, how many editions have Eldar been kings of the heap?

>> No.30430284

>"only" strength 7

You know how many shots it gets as well?

>what else has strength 8 or more and ignores cover

He never said S8 he said "high strength". Implying S7 isn't good enough. Implying HYMP doesn't fucking exist. Implying 100+ armor ignoring cover ignoring S7 shots from their heavy support section alone won't gib your entire troop selection let alone the Riptide plates.

>> No.30430294


Five. Out of six.

>> No.30430296

> in a nutshell

>> No.30430298

Yeah, Tyranid players really have been ontop

Oh wait, even with out best dex Eldar still beat us, and Tau were >fish of fury

>> No.30430338


>> No.30430352

who gives a shit if he shoots me 4 hits of wave serpent and does four wounds if i can still save with a 4+, taking two wounds and not even killing a warrior?
my fear is high strenght weapons that may instakill warriors, the only real problem is that, you just have to put around 5 bodies and boom, they have just become a bulky unit with a high resistance
oh right, fuck markerlights

>> No.30430357

Seriously? Wave serpents? Are we that desperate to find ignore cover weapons that we now select those which warriors even got their save on?

>> No.30430397

Were there even tiers in Rogue Trader?

>> No.30430416

So, anyone here knows how to make a 'Nid codex that at least has a decent chance of winning against other armies, including whatever is the current top tier? The only other options I can think of are to ban 'Nids or fire Cruddace.

>> No.30430428

burn cruddace at the stake
suck Chambers cock so he writes one

>> No.30430536

>Remove the crippling IB results (or at least reduce them from 1-3 to 1)
>Synapse creatures get EW and a modest invulnerable
>Give Scything Talons back their old reroll rules
>Let them take non-Tyranid disciplines again
For a start
>Return Mycetic spores
For a start

>> No.30430546

Pardon that repeat, amended and thought I'd deleted

>> No.30430554

> EW

>> No.30430741


Top tier isn't that book's problem. Don't let /tg/'s whinefuckery fool you, the Tyranid Codex has 1-2 legitimate top-tier lists (double Flyrant, double Tervigon, then triple Crone or Mawloc on player preference and some Biovores). It's everything else that's the problem; the book is written legitimately terribly, since they just did a slight rehash of the previous book with no attempt to actually update it at all.

The bad units are so bad they're unplayable, and there's a LOT of those units. It's not a good sign when even casual players can't use 75%+ of your book without feeling derptarded, and since /tg/ is mostly casual, that's where all this rage comes from.

The bleeding-edge top 1% of the Tyranid book is fine; it's certainly ahead of DA/CSM, probably on the tier with vanilla Marines and Necrons a half-step behind Daemons and a full-step behind Eldar/Tau. But the MC rush lists pose some interesting meta problems for the current Eldar lists, so people are taking them seriously.

So again, don't confuse the book being competitive with the book being good. It can be competitive, with its 1-2 locked-in copy/paste builds. It's still an awful fucking book. /tg/ is generally bad at separating these two concepts though.

>> No.30430770

you forgot FnP, FC and that all models get a +1 to WS, BS, S, T and I, MCs ignore any unweildy (like crushing claws) while in synpase

>> No.30430777

>>MCs ignore any unweildy
They already do.

>> No.30430784

Nids have been practically demoted to an NPC faction. Synapse/instinctive behavior brings penalties so severe that a Tyranid army will eat itself/run off the board after the synapse dies unless played as an unfluffy, defensive monobuild with fucking bastions. Aside from that:

Dakka-flyrant got cheaper and better
Carnifexes are cheap enough to be good again
Tyrannofex got cheaper
Spore mines got buffed and can assault at half distance
gaunts went down a point each
adrenal glands give fleet and FC
rending claws give AP5 and rending
regen is 4+ IWND

Doom got taken out
Spore Pods got taken out
Parasite got taken out
Book powers (Biomancy etc) are gone, Tyranids can only take the old codex powers combined into one table
Tervigons got nerfed
Prime went up 50% base cost with no other changes
Trygon tunnels still don't work
Lictors still can't assault from deepstrike
Pyrovores still suck
genestealers still suck
warriors still suck
boneswords now AP3
Talons give you AP6 instead of rerolls
most biomorphs went up in cost
Synapse = Fearless has not changed but...
Instinctive Behavior is crippling

IMO retire your bugs and wait five years for the next codex. Hopefully they fire Cruddace after the suits see tyranids drop in sales for the second time.

>> No.30430796

>>regen is 4+ IWND
I. Fucking. Wish.

How the hell did they fuck that up? IWND seems custom made for Regeneration

>> No.30430802

>>Hopefully they fire Cruddace after the suits see tyranids drop in sales for the second time

Won't happen. He has yet to write a decent book in the 4-5 years hes been at the company. They dont care

>> No.30430803

Cruddace seems to have forgotten since he added unwieldy to the MC-only mace tail biomorph.

>> No.30430815

Nids can't get IWND anymore and it's mechanically the same, right down to the wording. If nids someone gain access to IWND then regen should stack with it, but until then it's the same thing.

>> No.30430829

how are gargoyles now?
found a auction of 30 of them unopened for 20 euros

>> No.30430855

In a vacuum, great. In practice, shit. You wouldn't take any other Gaunt if they didn't score/you didnt have to and Gargoyles are no different

>> No.30430881

Worse at killing, better at supporting. Blinding poison was nerfed to a poison 6+ (fucking lol) but it's now all but certain to drop an enemy's BS/WS if the gargoyles get in combat.

>> No.30430897

tought about using them asa a distraction while i get enemy vehicles/small troops who control objectives

>> No.30430909

This anon speaks the truth, mass targets is the key to winning with Tyranids.

>> No.30431068

I can't even boost reserve rolls with hive commander or pheromone trail anymore? Only Swarmlord? Why

>> No.30431100

I agree with everything except the special characters. Sure they aren't handled narratively well (if you can just absorb it then produce it somewhere else whynot make nonstop copies of the swarmlord) but there are plenty of ways with a bit of imagination you can give tyranids characterful unique units

>> No.30433440

>nids now suck
>still can't find a decent deal for nids

...maybe my ebay-fu is weak, i just want a cheap swarmlord/hive tyrant

>> No.30433540

Nids have sucked for years. Suckage doesn't affect prices one bit

>> No.30433904

Not defending the book here; it is still a pile of shit, but I've found Warriors and Hormagaunts to have their uses.
Hormagaunts are alright for running up the backfield, contesting objectives and occasionally mincing a GEQ squad, give them Adrenal Glands and they can even break down tanks.
Most opponents don't see them as a threat, so they often reach their target relatively unharmed. Warriors are good at holding midfield objectives I've found, give one a biocannon for some pseudo artillery and you take potshots at the enemy.

Don't get me wrong, both units are still pretty bad, but I'm finding them more tempting then termagants, as unlike termagants they MIGHT actually do something.

>> No.30435306

Gargoyles are only good as tarpits.

>> No.30435326

You may think they might do something, but you'd be wrong.

>> No.30436927

> Hopefully they fire Cruddace after the suits see tyranids drop in sales for the second time.

At my FLGS when they had the launch even for the new 'Nid stuff it sold out, only a couple of boxes of the stuff were left.

>> No.30438686


Fuck life

>> No.30439804

Don't waster your time and money, play the 5th ed codex with the new 6th ed unit entries. Only way to have fun.

>> No.30440170


>bonafide expert

>> No.30440394

>Warrior armor save matters

You must think FW are the most amazing units ever and space marines are unkillable.

>> No.30440415

>The bleeding-edge top 1% of the Tyranid book is fine; it's certainly ahead of DA/CSM, probably on the tier with vanilla Marines and Necrons a half-step behind Daemons

Except that's wrong you stupid faggot even with the flyrant tervigon list they're not topping tournaments.


>> No.30440512

If it was a 4+ invul warriors would be a no brainer.
4+ isn't bad with multiple wounds, it's the instant death to S8 that's the problem.

>> No.30440548

What do you expect? Seems highly likely that most 40k collectors don't give a shit about the competitive metagame and all that stuff. Geedubya thinks most customers are interested in the models, not the rules, and they should know better than anyone since their profits actually depend on getting things right.

>> No.30440553

A lot of people don't give a shit about tournaments or the rules. They get the models they like.

>> No.30440614

The codex sold out as well, think it's because of the same reason? Also, I am in fact a Tyranid player.

>> No.30440651


Why should Warriors get a 4+ invulnerable?

To fix them there needs a more biological solution. i.e. increase their toughness to 5 and decrease their wounds to 2.

Synapse should give a 6+ FNP to represent them shrugging off krak missiles occasionally.

Also dropping their points 25ppm base would be nice too but I guess that would be pushing it.

>> No.30440660

Not the same anon, but yeah, same reason. People who don't spend significant amounts of their time discussing tournaments and what's overpowered and underpowered aren't likely to look into these things, or care much about them.

>> No.30443640


Good rules that make models desirable for reasons other than just the model itself is extra profit at zero cost (since you are already writing rules anyway).

Why don't people understand this.

>> No.30443696

T5 and W2 seems reasonable if you reduce their save to a 6+ FNP. If anything though you would need to boost their points cost.

>> No.30444132


That's the thing I find the most hilarious about 6e so far.

This edition has by far, the biggest, most unified set of USRs in the history of the game. Reading through it for the first time, even though half of the new rules introduced or the old ones that had been reworked had yet to be properly implemented into any codexes, I was instantly able to imagine what existing units could expect to have those rules.

And then, fast forward to today, where the shiny new USRs are only on a small handful of units, and terrible, overpowered codex-specific SRs run rampant.

>> No.30444393

I've said it before and I'll say it again:

Failing to maintain synapse needs to stop being punished. A tyranid codex needs to be written to be able to function without proper synapse coverage, but not at peak efficiency.

Fearless is not a good enough benefit anymore, unless morale is completely reworked. As it is, morale is a pretty worthless element of 40k as most armies have easy access to Fearless or something better.

It's possible something as extreme as even providing statline boosts to units under synapse might be necessary.

The only other option is to keep synapse as a punishment, but drastically reduce the cost of units to compensate for the built-in weakness. They aren't cheap enough. 2-3 point naked termies/hormies is probably what we're talking about here, to start.

>> No.30444602

I never said they should have a 4+ invul. I'm just say a 4+ save isn't bad normally for infantry. The problem is warriors aren't being shot with anti infantry weapons.

But I agree that T5 W2 is the way to go. That or reduce the cost of warriors significantly and limit the damage out put slightly. Make it a waste shooting missiles at them.

>> No.30444696

Or bring back no ID synapse creatures

>> No.30444790

That's what I thought
Eternal Warrior and perhaps a modest 5++ for all Synapse beasties

>> No.30445543

>make Nids daemons but better in every way
How about no?

Your dudes die when killed, daemons are unkillable by any means.

You're asking for your army to be daemons but with EW so you never get instant killed.

Go eat a dick you shitty nid whiner.

>> No.30445791

>implying nids can be killed

Silly anon, they are simply re birthed into a new flesh vessel.

>> No.30445824

but honestly they just need EW and everything in synapse should get 6++ FNP

done. The codex is half fixed because

>> No.30445844

well i just got a carniflex for my prize in the 40k tournamen this sunday.

maybe i'll sell it instead of adding it to my nid army from 2nd/3rd edition i haven't dusted off yet.

>> No.30445847

... because warriors are now useable

ok 4chan

>> No.30445887

so this new knight model for imperial armies is basically an i win unit vs nids?

>> No.30446150

>so this new knight model for imperial armies is basically an i win unit vs nids?

from all the whining you nidfags do, everything is an 'I win' unit against nids

>> No.30446177

muhreens shoudl be best and get all the best stuff in the game player detected.

>> No.30446254


nice try, cunt

I play IG

>> No.30446320

>>nice try, cunt
>I play IG

and i play eldar/tau/dark angels/IG/necrons/nids (i haven't dusted off my necrons or my nids yet. and i'm still updating my dark angels/tau (tau is going to take the most money.)

I might bother to do something with tyranids since i just won a carniflex kit as a prize in the 40k tourney i was in today but honestly i'm thking i might just sell it.

>> No.30446501

Flying hive commander.
Prime with shooty.
Nine warriors with firepower.

Outflank with prime and go apeshit on anything that moves.

Also....since when did infiltrating genestealers get bad?

>> No.30446578

Cruddace please go

>> No.30446609

About the time ignores cover was put everywhere

about the time they lost access to frag nades

about the time warriors of any sort became useless

>> No.30446763

Also about the time assault from Outflank was removed in the same goddamn edition that added Overwatch to mitigate any problem it might have been in the first place.

>> No.30449129

>Failing to maintain synapse needs to stop being punished. A tyranid codex needs to be written to be able to function without proper synapse coverage, but not at peak efficiency.

I'd rather synapse bring huge benefits (FnP, EW) and huge penalties for playing without it (your army falls apart like currently)

>> No.30449415


Why do idiots keep associating knights with marines?

>> No.30449447

but muh marines are gonna pilot the knight tho

marines are the best elite soldiers in the imperium, so they should have access to all the best weapons like titans, knights, baneblades, ect


>> No.30449499

top kek

because all imperium armies will have acess to it.

>> No.30449598


Vanilla marines are only 1/8 of Imperial factions. MEQ is only 4/8, 5 if you count GK who share nothing with the other marines except toughness and armor, not even the same wargear or rules.

>> No.30449617

>because all imperium armies
>all imperium armies
>not just marines

That doesn't answer the question.

>> No.30449659


Space Marines are by far the most popular faction. So most of the Knights will be played with Marine armies.

>> No.30449751

Wait, does the Imperium have riptides now?

Hey Nid players, it's not all bad. At least your codex didn't get Sisters of Battled.

>> No.30449827

>by far the most popular faction

Only casually, in which case no complaints are warranted whatsoever.

In competitive play, space marines have seen high usage recently, but 99% of the lists are White Scars. Whether bike armies will use knights remains to be seen.

>> No.30450295

>top tier lists
>seen these top tier lists getting tabled by turn 3
>these were pro tyranid players too


>> No.30450306


>Retards literally thinking this would be broken

>> No.30450411

They don't need it though, they just need Toughness 5.

>> No.30450451

>increase their toughness to 5 and decrease their wounds to 2


I've tried running Warriors like that many fucking times and it doesn't work. They die just as fast. Think before you fucking post that shit.

>> No.30450511

Die just as fast to what? The weak-ass small arms that take forever to kill them with either the T4 W3 or T5 W2 set-up? Why yes, in both cases they are equally as resilient to those.

They're also twice (read: double, x2) as resilient to krak missiles, lascannons, powerfists and all that other shit. Oh, and if one of them does get insta-killed in close combat by a S 10 weapon, it only counts as 2 wounds towards combat resolution, not 3.

They're literally better in every way. What the fuck are you smoking.

>> No.30450517

Are you under the assumption that he means every Nid under synapse gets EW and a 5++?

Because you're acting like he is...

>> No.30450536

>anecdotal evidence
>math disagrees

sorry anon but youre wrong

>> No.30450553

Wait what? What buffs?

>> No.30450584

Go play them against any decent player and watch them get wiped off the table by turn 2.

Please, go do it. I really want you to.

>> No.30450595


Losing Doom.
Losing spores.
Losing book powers.
Wargear going up in cost.
Random units like Prime going up by 45 points.
Tervigon costing more, exploding your own guys, etc.
IB your guys eat themselves or run off the board.

All buffs!

>> No.30450657

Don't forget Scything Talons!
Or Warriors/Genestealers being fixed in any way!

>> No.30450685

And you know this because you've totally played tons of games with these hypothetical T5 warriors that haven't been around since 2nd ed, right?

>> No.30450701

Guys, has Cruddace even been reprimanded for the shit he took on Nids and it's fans?

Surely GW see's the outrage by the community and must be doing something, right?

>> No.30450716

They called him a Bona Fide Expert and put in a quote in one of the WD's about how nids are actually one of the most adaptable races now thanks to the new codex.

I shit you not, they are that shameless and/or retarded.

>> No.30450727

That's what i said, didnt I?

I spent many games testing out potential fixes to unpopular units with my friends.

Do you guys literally just spout your "fixes" on here without even testing them beforehand?

This is how you guys write your "fandexes"?

No wonder no one gives a shit about any of them.

>> No.30450742

We should start a petition to either get Cruddace fired or to get a better fucking book.

>> No.30450757

Well apparently your testing methods are retarded, because there are almost zero situations in which T5 W2 is less survivable than the T4 variant. Math isn't subjective, unless you're actually Supreme Faggot Cruddace himself apparently.

Just because T5 isn't enough of a fix on its own doesn't mean its bad, it's a necessary step.

>> No.30450941

>almost zero situations


If the current meta didn't include a metric fucking kiloton of AV weapons, then sure they're basically equally survivable, the W3 possibly moreso. But as soon as step out of the vacuum into the plethora of S8+ weapons all around you, you'll see why Warriors get instagibbed so quickly it's not even funny.

>> No.30450975

It's not the T5 that's the problem, it's dropping a wound that's the deal breaker.

>> No.30450992

Just go fucking test them out and stop spouting shit.

If you're so dead set that you're right and that the warriors are so much better off with t5 and minus a wound then just go fucking try them in a few games.

>> No.30451025

Are you actually functionally retarded or do you not read the rulebook.

Krak missiles instagib the T4 Warriors. Not T5. That's the whole fucking point.

>> No.30451042

Wait, my bad. I thought >>30450757 was saying T4 W3 > T5 W2.

>> No.30451050

Which only matters versus plasma and serpent shields. The latter might be pretty fucking popular in the meta, I'll give you that, but that's easily fixed with some other changes.

>> No.30451092

(you hecked up bruh)

>> No.30451130

Unless you were playing the majority of those games against Eldar and Tau, math says you're objectively wrong. I don't need to test shit, I can read numbers.

On the other hand, if you WERE playing against Eldar and Tau, well, that's fucking Eldar and Tau.

>> No.30451148

>I spent many games testing out potential fixes to unpopular units with my friends.
>with my friends

>> No.30451224

Eldar, Tau, DE, Eldar, IG, Necrons, BA, CSMs, Chaos Daemons, SoB, Tau.

I've tested these rules thoroughly, and no I'm not shit at the game.

Again, go test them out and stop spouting your shit.

>> No.30451233

What, you have no friends?

Who the fuck else am I play this fucking game with when using test rules/stats?

You can't bring that shit to tournaments you fat fuck.

>> No.30451256

He is part of the waves of people from /v/ who need to take their culture with them

>> No.30451353

>Unless you were playing the majority of those games against Eldar and Tau

This is what I realized about the game. Unless you are attending a tournament or have a store with a lot of Tau/Eldar, the game's shit balance usually isn't a problem.

The problem is many stores have competitive players and Tau/Eldar bandwagoners.

>> No.30451418

But I play Tau and all I do is spam drones.

Remora Drones, Sniper Drones, and what not and I still get called cheesy.

Hell, I only run Riptides during Apoc.

>> No.30451528

>the community
Ha! Most people are perfectly happy buying Nids, so no, GW is hardly likely to respond to a small 'community' of online complainers.

>> No.30451554


Man, it's a real bait-buffet around here!

>> No.30451593

>implying that's not perfectly true
Go ask some LGS owners or redshirts how their tyranid sales have been, anon. I don't think you'll find that 'the community' has rejected them.
Most customers just don't give a shit about balance and tier lists.

>> No.30451606


I've always said that if I was going to start Tyranids when they had the 5E book the 6E nerf isn't going to change anything.

>> No.30451749


Well, all sales are declining, so there's that anyways.

But that doesn't mean anything. I've spent about 300$ on Nids weeks before or after the cruddex came. The few LFGS clercks I spoke to about the new cruddex mostly agreed with me. It's an enormous let down from the company that will hopefully lead to fandexes being more widely accepted.

>> No.30451828

>fandexes more widely accepted

Good luck with that. A fandex will only be accepted if it takes off like Pathfinder did for 3.X. To do that, either GW will need to collapse, or somehow a 3rd party company will need to step in and develop a dex and somehow market the shit out of it. I'd recommend they use Pancake Edition as the basis for the Pathhammer rules

>> No.30452732

The ones I mentioned where venomthropes giving shrouded now instead of just 5+ cover. Warriors functionally gained +1 A since you get extra attacks from multiple CC weapons now, they also gained acess too frag grenades and fleet cheaper toxin sacs and the ability too mix weapons in the brood.

>> No.30455754

I did really well at a tournament with this.

Dakka flyrants
hive guard
warriors with bs
Hive crones
dakka fexes

>> No.30455792

Then again, I am used to playing orks through a tournament so it was kinda like easy mode.

>> No.30456713

I havent got to read all of the codex yet, any one got a scan?
>plus /r/ sucks and won't help

>> No.30460585

Alright, if anybody is still interested:

The player said that he only played about 50 games or so, so he still didn't try everything, but his impressions of the codex so far are that you it's really hard to play very aggresive armies.
The thing that works best is defensive armies. He talks a little bit about the venomtrhope bastion, shouldn't be too much of a suprise. Keep in mind to use it as a LOS blocker as well as for hiding the venomthrope.

He takes biovores because they fit a more defensive playstyle, indrirect fire is great with los-blocking terrain (a normal tourny table always has at least one piece of such) and they are really useful against the tau matchup, because you can snipe any markerlights except on the tanks.
Once those are gone, your survivability goes up a lot.

The ravenors are just because of the local meta, since there's no more mass s8 like missile launcher spam last edition.

One last thing to note is that he takes harpies instead of crones, which are often kind of ignored, and uses the go-to-ground, fearless-trick with his hormagaunts.

>> No.30460805

He said in most of his games, he didn't actually fly with his hive tyrant, since he gets shot down way too easily. He's mainly there for synapse and to force grounding checks on other fmc's.

That's the same reason his termagaunts use half spinefists and half devourers, since the weaker weopon is not meant to do much damage anyway, the important thing is just a twinlinked weapon to generate a hit and ground fmc's more easily.

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