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/tg/ - Traditional Games


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[ERROR] No.30376987 [DELETED]  [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

When it comes to tabletop games, what's your favorite version of werewolves?

>> No.30377009

Werewolf the Apocalypse, hands down.

nWoD is shit.

>> No.30377059

Not sure about tabletop Werewolves, but I like the image in Dog Soldiers Werewolf.
More or less a elongated human with wolf feathers.

>> No.30377130

>>30377059
>feathers.
I don't even.
Features are better I guess.

>> No.30377194

>> No.30377201

>>30376987
holy shit. vampire the masquerade bloodlines.
any more???

>> No.30377213

>>30377009
I definitely prefer oWoD which I played first, but WtF really isn't as bad as everyone is making it out to be.

>> No.30377275

>>30377213
'Hey lets just end this old series because we don't know how to make it profitable anymore. Just butcher all of the lore and jumble it up and say it's a totally new thing and sell it again.'

>> No.30377586

>>30377275
>Implying oWoD lore is good
>Implying W:tA lore wasn't the worst out of all of it

Next you'll be telling me that Tumblr is a perfectly fine and respectful community.
And that real world political opinions and metaphor belong in hobbies

>> No.30377661

>>30377130
>>feathers
I didn't even gloss over that. I read feathers and thought "That's OK"

>> No.30378025

>>30377275
Not this guy >>30377586

I know the lore has been jumbled up, but that's kinda what happens when you make a remake.

>'Hey lets just end this old series because we don't know how to make it profitable anymore. Just butcher all of the lore and jumble it up and say it's a totally new thing and sell it again.'
In fact, that's EXACTLY what happens.

Whether the old one is better than the new one is undeniable, both in quality and the sense of epic, nay, MYTHIC fiction, but I do like WtF.

Just not in the same way as I liked WtA.

>> No.30378838

>>30377009
Is that a Get of Fenris?
Never played myself, just heard about them, they sound badass. Them and the wacky Fianna.

>> No.30378898

>>30377201
Unfortunately there is like NO good (well drawn) porn of VMB except for that picture.

>> No.30379465

>>30377194
but gavrill is an alligator not a wolf

>> No.30379618

>>30376987
dead ones

>> No.30379788

In games where I design them myself, I prefer a pretty classic one. Hybrid form and full wolf form.
Spreads like a disease from bite and claw wounds.
Weaker ones only during the full or nearly moon, lose the memory of what they do during their change and will hunt and kill humans.
Stronger ones still can't resist changing under the full moon, but can force themselves to change at will and can remember and control themselves during the change, though their impulse control decreases.

>> No.30380637

>>30379788
Is it bad that I want to play a setting where werewolves have a unique origin story and because of it are a bit more in control of themselves than standard lycanthrope affair?

>> No.30380801

>>30380637
Yes

>> No.30380858

>>30380801
Why?

>> No.30380880

>>30380858
Because furshit

>> No.30380941

>>30380880
What? That doesn't make it any less furshit than normal lycanthropy, asshole.

I've always wanted to do a werewolf story where the wolf part of them was a separate part entirely, almost antagonist in nature, where both mental parties involved have to beat each other down on a daily basis to gain any control.

>> No.30380985

>>30380941
Guaranteed to devolve into furshit.

>> No.30381047

>>30380985
Only if you're playing with furshitters.

>> No.30381167

>>30380985
Well, no, since all the players in the campaign are long-time WtA players.

>> No.30381379

>>30380985
So basically if you aren't as likely to kill friend as foe in the war form, the game isn't worth playing.

Sounds like a WtF player. We didn't have that in WtA and it didn't devolve into furshit, son.

>> No.30383038

>>30377275
>nWOD: Better rules, hands down. When I play Vampire: The Masquerade, I do it with nWOD rules, using the Vampire Conversion splatbook, so that I can use the superior rules with the setting I prefer.

>Changeling: The Lost (nWOD) beats seven shades of shit out of Changeling: The Dreaming.

>Nobody likes Werewolves anyways, so why are we even having this discussion?

>> No.30383078

>>30376987
Wait, did Damsel just boink/drink a werewolf to death?

>> No.30383101

Everquest RPG

>> No.30383142

>>30379465
Gavril is whatever you don't want her to be.

>> No.30383499

>>30377586

>Implying oWoD lore is good

Subjective statement.

Counter statement: I think that every single oWoD game, save for CtL, is superior to nWoD. The facts that nWoD sunk the company, and oWoD is being re-released show that more people agree with me then agree with you. While that isn't an objective statement of value, it's an objective statement about the average subjective value given to to both WoDs.

>Implying W:tA lore wasn't the worst out of all of it

Subjective statement. I personally think it's the best game out of the lot. The pull between nature and civilization within homid garou is fascinating. The way characters are actual people rather then corpses bound up within their own mini-society like in the vampire games, is fascinating. The way apocalypse truly and palpably wafts off every page, is fascinating.

>Next you'll be telling me that Tumblr is a perfectly fine and respectful community

Subjective statement coming from someone posting on the gay bathhouse of the internet, and meant to connect WtA with your subjective appraisal of it's value. Let's not play dumb. You're associating the two due to the environmental themes. It's a really shallow understanding of the game.

>And that real world political opinions and metaphor belong in hobbies

Subjective statement. Some of us can deal with real world politics without taking out knifes. We feel it grants gravity to what would otherwise be emotionally shallow make believe.

>> No.30383508

Unplayable monsters best stabbed, shot, and incinerated.

>> No.30383594

>>30378898
and thats a fucking shame, this pic caused many anguished googlings im willing to bet

>> No.30387631

>>30377059

Man, Dog Soldiers was fucked up.

>> No.30387666

>>30383038
CtL is sick, the rest of nWoD is dogshit.

Although Werewolf the Apocolypse is fucking disgusting, plauged with furies, rules for furry rape, fucking feminist werewolves, tree hugging werewolves (which at least make sense), too much talk about sex and bestiality and incest, very autistic. And that fucking art; half the pictures are bad-ass whitewolf shit, half of them are deviantart cartoon furry shit.

>> No.30387676

>>30383078
Her clothes got ripped and she wisely decided to savagely beat her aggressor to death before taken the time to put them back on and make herself vulnerable.

>> No.30388687

Why is there so much hate for WtF, i don't get it

>> No.30388740

>>30388687
There's several reasons. A World of Darkness Werewolf expert would be able to explain better than I could.

>> No.30389145

>>30380858

>> No.30389156

>>30387676
>>30383078
Pretty sure her cloths ripped and the werewolf got a nosebleed and passed out

>> No.30389162

>>30388687
Furshit. Native American hippy Furshit.

>> No.30389201

>>30383038
nWoD's rules are still shit, though, for anything wherein anyone is remotely powerful. Except Mage I guess.

Seriously, a vampire can be beaten to death by three guys with lead pipes. Or three guys with guns.

>> No.30389223

>>30389162
Technology evil, nature good hippy shit, especially. Also, insufferable fanboys.

>> No.30389224

My favourite represantation of werewolves in tabletop games would actually be the werewolves from MtGs Innastrad.

>> No.30389545

>>30389162
>>30389223
Wait what? forsaken doesnt have any "technology is bad mmmhhkay" bullshit in it, are you sure you are not projecting so hard you can show powerpoint presentations with your dick?

>> No.30389755

>>30379788
Do they actually eat sentient? Cannibal horror is a bit more horrifying than just plain killing people.Especially if they subconsciously enjoyed the hunt and feast.

>> No.30389987

>>30387631
They were basically Xenomorphs in Dog Soldiers, they behaved like actual wolves, poking and prodding as a pack, but they're not scary that way.

I preferred Bad Moon, and VTM: Bloodlines did something very similar, just these giant wolf-demon assholes there to ruin your day.

>> No.30390141

>>30377009
>I sure do love fucking dogs

>> No.30390151

>>30377586
It couldn't possibly be the worst of all, Changeling the Dreaming existed.

>> No.30390153

Werewolf the Forsaken, easy.

>> No.30390177

>>30389987

The original werewolf family just acted like a pack because that's how they were used to hunting, and also tends to be how untrained humans act in an unexpected violent situation.

Capt. Ryan on the otherhand, he's still fully aware of what's going on while he is a werewolf which is why he fucks off and hides in the basement while everyone else is wrecking each other.

>> No.30390187

>>30390177
>also tends to be how untrained humans act in an unexpected violent situation.
it is kinda funny, people forget that humans are pack animals

>> No.30390195

>>30383499
>The facts that nWoD sunk the company
Not really, oWoD sank the company. They weren't making shit off their book near the end.

>> No.30390196

>>30376987
who's the one that reviews movies again?

>> No.30390207

>>30390195
>>30383499
Ladies, ladies, you're both stupid. CCP sunk the company because they didn't give two shits about keeping the tabletop alive, they only wanted the world of darkness rights.

>> No.30390218

Sparky Monroe, the werewolf lawyer.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gMJwVtdwzeA

>> No.30390257

>>30390177
God Ryan was such a bitch.

Fuck that guy.

>> No.30390266

>>30390207
>CCP
who?
>because they didn't give two shits about keeping the tabletop alive, they only wanted the world of darkness rights.
Can someone explain this to me?

>> No.30390274

>>30390207
Not really, with CCP's help they've managed to get back on their feet financially.

Part of the problem with oWoD was, ten years after coming out it was still the same game, but the RPG industry was booming near the end and a lot of people were suddenly able to play vampires and werewolves and other things in more familiar DnD format without all the angst (which, if you look around /tg/ now you'll see people hate).

>> No.30390295

>>30390266
Icelandic company that bought out White Wolf.
They're working on the MMO and gave Onyx Path the license to do all the White Wolf stuff, so OP is now putting out Scion 2, Exalted 3, Trinity 2, and nWoD 2 and oWoD 20.

>> No.30390296

>>30390274
>people were suddenly able to play vampires and werewolves and other things in more familiar DnD format without all the angst (which, if you look around /tg/ now you'll see people hate).
But the angst is a feature.
It is even called "World of Darkness" (in my soul! that nobody understands!)

The entire franchise is one big magical realm.

>> No.30390306

>>30390295
oh, thanks for explaining. that doesn't sound bad at all.

How does this supposedly sink the company?

>> No.30390351

>>30390306
It's just /tg/, if there's a change, people will bitch, and they'll bitch forever.
They'll also bitch about the originals.

>> No.30390400

>>30390306
Well the main problem is that nWoD, a big focus of the company at the time effectively split alot of the fanbase, much like DnD 4th edition.

This split led to those who liked the old books to not invest in the massive collection that WW put out for their new games. Additionally some of those new games had obvious lack of polish. In the P:tC it explains ho mosr supernaturals react to Prometheans, but when it gets to mages it says: Bad things happen, and stops dead.

A combination of the large buy in, source books ran up to 35 dollars for basically fluff and a hand-full of rules for some splats or just pre-made characters for others, and the fact sometimes you just couldn't find the core of each game is also a factor.

Plus when WW originally began putting things on online sites like Drivethru the pdfs cost the same as a printed version, this has since been corrected but it showed a general lack of insight into how the RPG market had changed,

>> No.30390441

>>30390306

It didn't. RPGs don't sell like in the 1990s. Everyone has scaled back and had to make some significant changes if they didn't make D&D or might-as-well-be&D (Pathfinder).

>>30390274

In Werewolf, you can start out playing a kaiju-sized Mokole right off the bat. I'm not going to say that it's a complete removal of angst (it would tend to inject the game with themes of the 1954 Godzilla), but it does tend to be a very effective counterweight to it. And the only thing it took to remove even more of the nihilism from Apocalypse was releasing W20 and having the front comic being the Eighth Sign of the Phoenix - all is not lost, so long as the Garou and Fera don't give in to despair.

>> No.30390497

>>30390441
The angst I was referring to in vampire.
Probably the main complaints with Werewolf the Apocalypse is 'captain planet' and yiffing everywhere, also the folks who don't like furries take objection to starting off as a wolf, and the easy mind-control-for-sexual-purposes werewolves have.

>> No.30390542

>>30390441
Okay, but is Apocolypse still "Fuck this Wolf Or the Earth Will Die"/LUDDITE ECOTERRORISM

>> No.30390664

>>30390151
A devoted CtD group can be as abusive as the fae in CtL.

What was that crazy soulbonder dude who actually did raise a small cult? I remember reading stuff from someone who got out of it. Just because it's not scientology doesn't mean that shit can't be seriously harmful.

>> No.30390670

>>30390497

Have you read the rules for animal attraction? It's not easy. In fact, most Changers probably have high enough social stats to just talk to people instead and enjoy greater success without turning people into unhinged maniacs for the night.

Also, yiffing is an offense punishable by death. Don't let the Revised Children of Gaia Tribebook fool you - that shit doesn't fly even among the CoG.

>>30390542

The Garou are monsters that like to do things very directly. Unfortunately for them, the hook of the game is that they often have to do things that don't involve just running down their quarry and ripping its face off. There was a time when they could have, but it was a long time ago, and they're doubly in the red because they killed and drove off a lot of their allies millennia ago.

>> No.30390694

>>30390670
>Also, yiffing is an offense punishable by death
You can say this, but it's untrue.
Metis are -everywhere- and no one treats them the way the books suggest treating them (poorly). They are like drow. Having one in your group is supposed to be disgraceful, they are supposed to be mental fuckups, but they're as common as changing eye colors on Mary Sues.

>> No.30390723

>>30390694
That's more an issue with terrible players, though, isn't it? Or were they represented as such in the fluff too?

>> No.30390861

>>30377586
I feel you anon, I prefer nWoD too, but I mainly ST Requiem, so that maybe why I'm biased, streamlined disciplines and bloodlines, and the fact it's so much cooler to let a prospective Nosferatu player be more than a info monger who's being seen is a masquerade breach for example

>> No.30390934

>>30390861
But Requiem is the second worst of the nWoD line. Baseline Mortals is better than it.

>> No.30390983

>>30390723
They were represented as such in the fluff, and in the end it was a special metis that saved the entire world, to a point.

>> No.30391059

>>30390934
Those are some nice opinions anon, and I really like how you backed them up.

>> No.30391111

>>30391059
Promethean and Geist are cool thematically, despite being messy. Changeling is cool, as is Mage. Werewolf is the most awkward among the splats. Requiem is weak due to shitty, weak disciplines and baseline vamp abilities barring the mental/social ones, and the Predator nonsense, and the memory haze nonsense. Despite what you hear everywhere, it limits the game's scope and style more than VtM ever did, and that game was a turd.

>> No.30391118

>>30391111
Geist and Mage both suck.
Requiem is great.

>> No.30391128

>>30391118
Oh darn, looks like someone else has opinions too!

>> No.30391149

>>30391128
At least with Geist he's got some backup, it sold awfully. And Vampire sold really well. While it doesn't necessarily mean it's great, there's a reason FATAL doesn't make a lot of money.

>> No.30391199

>>30391149
Geist sold awfully because WW couldn't find it's ass with both hands around that time when it came to crunch. It's terrible written, but it has some interesting ideas that could have made it another hit like Changeling, if it had been handled properly.

Hell, I don't even mind Requiem all that much. It's fine I guess. It just always makes me twitch how it's proponents hold it up like the second coming. No, it did not fix everything, and no, it is not universally great, or applicable anywhere nearly as widely as they say.

>> No.30391256

>>30391199
>but it has some interesting ideas that could have made it another hit like Changeling,
Except it doesn't. It's werewolf with ghosts instead of spirits.
It sold poorly because it was an uninteresting game, it's the same reason why it's not popular.

>> No.30391292

>>30391256
Werewolf could have been interesting if it wasn't the most limp of the splats, and that had nothing to do with the spirit handling. The differences are big enough too. But hey, you can have your opinion too, man. Just accept that your game of choice isn't as great as it's often made out to be.

>> No.30391348

>>30391292
>Just accept that your game of choice isn't as great as it's often made out to be.
Idunno, my game of choice is pretty great.
And it's definitely better than Geist, and more popular and successful.

>> No.30391362

>>30391348
>popularity is the measure of greatness

Pathfinder says hi

>> No.30391376

>>30383499

Hey, I've been to gay bathhouses WAY nicer than 4chan. Don't sully gay bathhouses.

>> No.30391391

>>30391362
>And it's definitely better than Geist, and more popular and successful.
You see that word 'and' and you know that it is separate from being considered better.
Perhaps some more elementary reading comprehension abilities would pay off for you.

>> No.30391406

>>30391376
/tg/ is like a gay bathhouse where everyone is still in the closet and horribly repressed
the amount of repression here is ridiculous

>> No.30391437

>>30391406

Like half of the people who go to gay bathhouses are in the closet; it's why they go there instead of normal dating and seduction. The other half are out and just bored and horny, can't be arsed with the scene etc.

>> No.30391445

>>30391406
It's like the Republican politicians who are publicly anti-gay then go to airport bathrooms to just suck a whole bagfull of cock.

>> No.30391484

>>30391376
>>30391406
>>30391437
>>30391445

New White Wolf line for you: Gay: The Bathhouse

>> No.30391488

>>30391406
Really? I'd have said that like gay bathhouses, /tg/ is full of AIDS

>> No.30391598

>>30391488

Eh, herpes more likely.

>> No.30391855

>>30390441

Random tibit:

The new Godzilla movie has Big G at around 150 meters.

>> No.30392240

>>30390983
They were always represented as being second-class, you mean, most often with missing parents because they had been executed or exiled, or said parents simply didn't want to live with the shame of having broken the first tenet of the litany, which is tl;dr - "Don't fucking yiff!".

RE: The Perfect Metis, like most features of Werewolf metaplot, what the cub meant and where it went was up to any given individual group. It played into the Weaver Ascendant Scenario as written as a powerful potential ally that was also the avatar of the forces that had been enemy number one until the Weaver's minions started closing their net. In any other scenario, the Perfect Metis is written as not being present or being a clear enemy.

Also, the first metis also became the First Ronin. Good luck trying to uphold "free yiffing!" with that guy present as the consequence.

>> No.30392285

>>30390983
Yeah but the 'perfect metis' was a CoG prophecy, and it turned out that he wasn't that 'perfect' either.

>> No.30395469

>>30376987
How did that girl lose her clothes from fighting a werewolf?

>> No.30395564

>>30377009
Werewolf the Forsaken, no contest.

oWoD Werewolves are mainly useful for occupying all those who'd rather yiff than play a werewolf horror game.

>> No.30395732

Always did like the devourers of Vile-tis, from the defunct Confrontation.
Basically, their race was conceived by goddess rape, they loved her but she hated them, so the rapist-god told some of them that fact, they stopped being native-american style undressed, got armed and armored to the teeth (literally, more often than not) and left their primitive brethren. Also, many of them dress in fetish gear and sew their lips shut.

>> No.30395864

>>30387666
Vampire
>oWoD - endless wanking over how dreadful it is to be immortal as one of an increasing number of retarded stereotypes
>nWoD - predatory scheming and backstabbing in a world of murky political horror

Mage
>oWoD - anti-intellectual "everything is true" hugbox
>nWoD - lovecraftian truth-seeking in a world of mysterious cosmic horror

Werewolf
>oWoD - captain planet fucking dogs to save the day from moustache-twirling villains
>nWoD - shamanic spirit police protecting their territory in a world of desperate savage horror

Demon
>oWo- okay, haha you fucking got me

>> No.30395894

>>30389162
>>30389223
youre both thinking of apocalypse. WTF dropped the "fuck dogs" and "technology evil" stuff.

>> No.30396261

>>30395894
Don't forget to mention the fact that there is actually an entire branch of Gifts in WtF that involve manipulating technology (or at least the spirits inside of technology). Which they would have known had actually read instead of being
hate-mongering nostalgiafags.

I guess that makes me the worst out of everyone since I like both versions of Werewolf, just in different ways.
>queue the bashing

>> No.30397268

>>30396261
Fuck you and your opinions.
Also, WtF explores the werewolfiness of it all far better.

>> No.30397358

>>30387666
>furries, furries, furries
>very autistic!
>deviantart!
Care to try that again but with more buzzwords this time?

>> No.30397370

No love for Unknown Armies' wolves?
Really?

>> No.30397423

>>30397268
>an entire branch of Gifts in WtF that involve manipulating technology
>Which they would have known had actually read
>actually thinking these are opinions

>Also, WtF explores the werewolfiness of it all far better.
Did you not read this?
>I guess that makes me the worst out of everyone since I like both versions of Werewolf, just in different ways.
Christ, why is everyone in this thread mental?

>> No.30397746

Nobody has mentioned the best werewolf movie, with the best soundtrack of any horror movie.

>> No.30397813

>>30397423
You said "cue the bashing", duh.
The second line was just an afterthought. I just feel like WtA isn't even worth it for playing werewolves. It's got its thing, but not really werewolves, those felt more like a costume to me.

>> No.30397992

>>30377275
To be fair, owod's entire theme was "OMG apocalypse soon fellow immortal", having all that with no actual apocalypse is... disappointing?

It's a commendable endeavour, but executed poorly.

>> No.30398105

>>30397813
Sorry about that, mate, there's just too much damn friendly fire in this thread even among those who should be allies.

Here: Have a dog, a beautiful landscape, and some of the best damn advice I've ever taken in WtF.

>> No.30398137

>>30398105
>Flame War... Flame War never changes.

>> No.30398203

How many bestiality That Guys were there in owod werewolf that white wolf had to specifically outlaw it in nwod werewolf

>> No.30398433

>>30389145
That .gif... 10/10

>> No.30399501

>>30395469
Are you familiar with pre-Revised botching rules?

>> No.30401347

>>30390351
Well, at least they are consistent

>> No.30401410

>>30376987
They're just enormous furfags.
Literally.
lycanthropy is a real thing, it just causes the victim to have the uncontrollable urge to dress up like an animal and whine about being oppressed every time there's a full moon.

>> No.30401702

>>30401410
lycanthropy is a real thing, it just causes the victim to have the uncontrollable urge to dress up like an animal and whine about being oppressed every time there's a full moon.
you are funny anon. and I don't mean this sarcastically, I like you

>> No.30401724

>>30401410

I prefer the new moon because it's dark and mysterious like me. Aroooo!

>> No.30402451

>>30401702
Well I meant it was a real thing in-setting.

>> No.30403356

>>30401410
>Become a werewolf
>Can't interact with human society nearly as much
>Leave all my friends, family, and connections behind after trying (and failing) to maintain them
>After months of struggling to adjust, my pack is my family now
>Meet new chick in pack whose smart, funny, strong
>Help her find her new place in the world because I wish someone had helped me find mine
>Fall madly in love with each other despite laws of our people
>Pent up lust for each other needs release the way it does for all living creatures of binary sex
>Have sex, use condoms, no Metis children
>Literally nothing different from human sex
I bet you think actual wild animals are furfags for having sex at all too.

>> No.30403394

>>30403356
ERrr, he was asked what his favorite take on werewolves, not calling WtA furfags.

Rampant furfaggotry is normal for WtA, but doesn't have to be.

>> No.30403534

>>30403394
>Rampant furfaggotry is normal for WtA, but doesn't have to be.
I think that was the point a lot of people were trying to make before some faggots tried to shit it up

>> No.30404260

>>30398203
Quite a few, and they were the writers.

>> No.30404701

Being an oWoD fanboy, I didn't jump ship when the nWoD came out. I just didn't feel like sinking the money into an entirely new line of rules and fluff when I liked the old stuff.

I won't comment on the quality of the game (nWoD), since I never got any of the books, never read any of the fluff, and generally wasn't interested for the above reason, and a much more important one:

I would have had to be the one to ST the nWoD stuff, just as I'm the only one who will ST the oWoD stuff in my group. And frankly, as time goes on, and it becomes increasingly obvious that I'll never got to play... I may just stop GMing altogether.

So. Damned. Tired. Of. ForeverDM.

As for the oWoD? It had good points and bad points. Masquerade didn't have to be angsty immortality - there were four different vampire faction/conspiracies, each one with their own internal factions. There was clan politics to muddy the waters even more. Hell, one of the BEST things you can do is use the metaplot and the vampire's own origin stories as red herrings. Nothing says any of it has to be true.

For Apocalypse, the best way to avoid yiffing is to NOT PLAY with anyone who will. They start? Stop being a social coward and kick them out of the game. Don't want to use the technology is evil crap? Play Glass Walkers and Bone Gnawers, or allow the players to discover that the Garou are just set in their ways and invented the whole "Mad Weaver" story to explain something they don't understand and are terrified of. Hate metis? Enforce the stigmas with NPCs. Don't hand out Reknown to metis unless they go above and beyond. Fuck, enforce Reknown all the time. Make the players EARN Honor, Wisdom, and Glory, and take it away when they act like fuckwads. That's what it's for.

>> No.30404955

>>30389987
Holy shit, I though I was the only one that liked that movie

>> No.30405500

>>30403534

Now I want to play a Psycho Mantis type character who's utterly sickened by sexuality in general from being forced to experience the thoughts of too many people before he or she found a way to control what thoughts get in.

>> No.30405633

My favorite kind of werewolf is the kind who hates being a werewolf, and possibly doesn't realize they are one. Waking up in a field, bloody, ribs broken , teeth bashed in. Not know how the fuck it happened. Not aware they're a Werewolf at all. I like the confusion and fear that goes with it. "Edgy", sure. That's how scary monsters are supposed to be, especially classic European ones.

>> No.30405648

>>30405500

Some kind of Metis with a severely compromised musculature and possibly facial disfigurement to go along with his psychic powers?

>> No.30405799

I like them to have decent control over human/hybrid/animal form, save for a certain trigger. The trigger isn't necessarily a full moon (that's just a popular one). You might have a guy that turns into a bear when someone puts a top hat on him, for instance, or a girl who turns into a hen whenever she hears certain ringtones/telephone ringers.

>> No.30405952

>>30397268
The emphasis in WtF is on Yu Yu Hashiko, not being a werewolf. Melee attacks in general in nwod are worthless, and werewolves are bad at them.

>> No.30406448

>>30405500
>sickened by sexuality
Why? Thoughts are just thoughts, they'd be as easy to ignore as ads.

>> No.30406498

I prefer WtF because it doesn't have WtA's rampant primitivism. In WtA just making scientific observations can metaphysically harm the world.

>> No.30406509

What a horrible night to have a thread about this.

>> No.30406511

>>30406498
>elder werewolves tutting at you for using a calculator and spurring on the death of the world

>> No.30406664

>>30406448
Ads sicken me

>> No.30407146

>>30406498

Only if you subscribe to the notion that technology is bad. While yes, in the default setting, technology, the Weaver, and the Technocracy are Evil, the setting is malleable enough that you can just chalk it up to werewolf elders being stuck in their ways and foolish about not adopting useful weapons in the fight against the Wyrm.

Besides, the Technocracy finally got a fair hearing in Sorcerer's Crusade and in Mage Revised, and they can legitimately be the "good" guys depending on how you want to play them.

When I run oWoD, I pretty much run all NPCs as shades of grey unless I'm dealing with formori, Banes, nephandi, Baali, or any other Infernalist type character.

Everyone else just believes their doing what is "right" or "good". Even the genuinely evil characters don't think of themselves as evil, and certainly aren't going to twirl their mustaches.

At least, not in my games.

>> No.30407283

>>30389201
>Seriously, a vampire can be beaten to death by three guys with lead pipes. Or three guys with guns.

And this is so bad because?

>> No.30407343

>>30407283

It's not. >>30389201 is just being silly.

Especially considering even in the oWoD guns were exceptionally deadly, and one man with a gun stood a decent chance of killing a neonate vampire.

Killing one with lots of stamina and Fortitude? No, not likely. Still possible though, with the right weapons.

>> No.30407901

>>30399501
I am not. How to they explain the situation? Do they explain where her underwear's gone?

>> No.30407951

>>30405633
I have seen that so many times that I developed a liking to just evil werewolves.
The unaware thing doesn't really exist but the werewolves pretend it does so their friend and families take pit on them. In reality the entire mind has been taken over by the wolf already.

>> No.30408030

>>30376987
In tabletops? nWoD werewolves are great.

But when it comes to werewolves outside of tabletops, say, in movies for example, they should just be people who involuntarily turn to werewolves and proceed to go fucking berserk.

>> No.30408167

>>30408030

nWoD werewolf has a serious problem in that the werewolves just aren't very powerful. A well equipped and trained human has little to fear from a werewolf in a direct confrontation and many werewolf powers are rather underwhelming, not to mention having what is easily the hardest magical resource to recover be needed to use most of their powers.

In a direct confrontation OWOD werewolves were overpowered. Several gift combinations border on impossible to counter, and the werewolves automatic set of ability just from being a wolf is huge. It seems like their was an overreaction in the new game in an attempt to address those 'problems'.

>> No.30408359

>>30376987
I like versions where they mostly come from fucked up supersoldier experiments.

Pic related, but werewolves instead of zombies.

>> No.30408406

>>30408359
I kind of like that idea. A werewolf apocalypse is something you don't see much.

>> No.30408456

>>30408167
Werewolves were only ever a threat to other werewolves. That was the whole point of the game.

>> No.30408468

Just found this thread, posting this image and going to sleep.

I will be back later to read shit.

I thought you should know that Anon.

>> No.30408948

>>30407901
>implying she ever had underwear to start with

>> No.30408971

>>30407951
Not if they beat their will saves.

>> No.30408977

>>30407951
>wolves
>evil

>> No.30409000

>>30407951
>>30408977
it is amusingly ignorant
any evil in the werewolf comes from the man, not from the wolf

>> No.30409014

>>30408456
What are you talking about.? Werewolves were always a threat to other mortal and supernatruall creatures. The conflictt with the forces of supernatural decay was core to the game.

>> No.30409842

>>30403356
according to WtF, condoms, abortions, drugs etc "preventables" don't work because the Unihar are spirits in nature and only require the ACT of sex in order to be born. Th act would also coun gay sex, so have fun being a hulking blood talon male...who's pregnant for being bottom last night.

>> No.30409878

>>30409842
....that's absolutely hilarious and I am going to inflict that on some poor bastard.

>> No.30409988

>>30409842
Nothing more shameful than being a proud member of a warrior tribe, when everyone can see that you're an oathbreaker.

pic not related.

>> No.30410407

>>30409842
Well alright then, duly noted.

>> No.30412399

>>30406509
>you will never be a brave female human warrior who holds hands with her werewolf combat partner and mate

>> No.30413038

>>30410407
I am telling you, the entire WoD franchise is one big magical realm

>> No.30413327

>>30409842
>Have sex
>Shit out ghost abortions
Why is it that everything I learn about WoD makes Wraith look like a better option?

>> No.30414218

>>30409842
it actually doesn't say that, ,that's just something the more furry fans decided

>> No.30414345

>>30406498
>just making scientific observations can metaphysically harm the world.
>what is quantum mechanics?

>> No.30414489

>>30409842
What? No it doesn't. I've read it over like three times already. Page numbers or gtfo.

>> No.30415068

>>30414489
"...unihar are spawned as the spiritual representation of their parents' wrongdoing." -Predators p.61

"If they (uratha) don't anchor themselves in the physical -with the seed and wombs of humans - their spirit natures breed together and escape." WtF core p. 44

I also remember reading about how abortions don't work, but from where eludes me right now.

>> No.30415345

So, just to be clear, mpreg is canon?

How does that work? Butt babies?

>> No.30415377

>>30413038
Most popular RPGs have plenty of magical realm content. D&D has Drow, Girdles of Masculinity/Femininity, a long list of spells with high kink potential. . .

>> No.30415445

>>30415068
Sounds like if there isn't a woman involved, you get some sort of free roaming spirit, not mpreg.

>> No.30416862

>>30381167
>Well, no, since all the players in the campaign are long-time WtA players.
That just doubly guarantees they're going to start yiffing the second or third game

>> No.30416892

>>30383499
I'd just like to let you know you're wrong. That's all

>> No.30416916

>>30395864
The best part of nMage, in my opinion, is that if you get far enough, YOU become the eldrich horrors.

>> No.30416918

>>30387666
>the rest of nWoD is dogshit.
You are so wrong I wish I could make it so you never existed.

>> No.30416940

>>30377586
While I don't know about wolf, oWoD mage lore was the shit.
Only WoD, new or old, where I could play CAPTAIN INFINITY, HERO OF TOMORROW fighting against the New World Order so I can steal a black space helicopter and meet up with my shaman friend on the moon.

>> No.30416945

>>30389162
>Furshit. Native American hippy Furshit.
I think you're confusing WtA with WtF

>> No.30417009

>>30390207
>Ladies, ladies, you're both stupid. CCP sunk the company because they didn't give two shits about keeping the tabletop alive, they only wanted the world of darkness rights.
This guy gets it. Though they're doing a good job circlejerking oWoD for all the still living fanbois. Gotta get that money while doing as little as possible. "Let's just scan these book pages and resell them!"

>> No.30417067

>>30390542
>Okay, but is Apocolypse still "Fuck this Wolf Or the Earth Will Die"/LUDDITE ECOTERRORISM
Short answer? Yes.

>> No.30417080

>>30395864
I like oWoD mage because a lot of the everythings are adorably stupid.
Plus, it had one of my best chars: a Verbena who believed in the roman gods and wished for nothing more than to crush the world under his sandal. He actually owned a fasces.
The sons of eather were the only tradition I ever played to type.

>> No.30417116

>>30391199
>Geist sold awfully because WW couldn't find it's ass with both hands around that time when it came to crunch. It's terrible written, but it has some interesting ideas that could have made it another hit like Changeling, if it had been handled properly.
I like you. We should be friends

>> No.30417145

>>30376987
The Dungeons the Dragoning version. Nothing like being a speess elf suddenly hulking out and biting someone's throat out.

>> No.30417186

>>30395864
I love you. Marry me.

>> No.30417220

>>30390664
Anything can be harmful.
There was a cult around Ayn Rand's books for a while there.
It only broke up because the guy in charge of the mailing list broke up with Ayn Rand.

>> No.30417263

>>30404260
lol

>> No.30417272

>>30407146
Don't forget about the void enginers. Those guys actually work with the traditions sometimes. (Apparently they think the space illuminati is a bigger threat than a guy casting fireball once before paradox punches him in the dick)

>> No.30417454

>>30417272
god paradox sucks dick for mages doesn't it.

>> No.30418345

>>30414345
>what is quantum mechanics?

Not what you apparently think it is.

>> No.30418744

>>30417220
>There was a cult around Ayn Rand's books for a while there.
>was
>past tense

There are still people who talk about reading Atlas Shrugged for the first time as if it were a religious experience. Funny thing is a lot of them also consider themselves Christians.

>> No.30421959

>>30418744
>Funny thing is a lot of them also consider themselves Christians.
Rand is the libertarian's Jesus.

>> No.30422000

>>30418744
> Funny thing is a lot of them also consider themselves Christians.
They're American Protestants though, they barely even count to begin with.

>> No.30422344

>>30418744
>as if it were a religious experience
>projecting that hard

>> No.30423864

>>30409000
It is because in the time and place where the werewolf myth originated farmers considered wolves as evil. Farmers depended on their animal so that they would not starve to death during the winter, and hey, guess who else depends on animals to survive?

But yes, today we just see wolves as wolves usually. I like how Dragon Age did them, when people who hate werewolves are transformed they will just "understand", I like it more than them just immediately going evil.

But the werewolves don't get a happy ending that involves them being werewolves. If you help them then eventually they spread like wildfire when the lady can't control them anymore and get crusade'd back to near extinction.

>> No.30423996

>>30409842
I don't think it actually works that way.

I read one book set in oWoD I think, (or maybe new. Hell if I know.) there was a gay couple of werewolves that the main character had a problem with not because they were gay, but because of the law that werewolves cannot mate.

Then he realized the reason that rule existed was to prevent metis from being born and had no problem with it, since they could not reproduce.

I am sure someone will just twist this into "SJW! SJW!" shit though, since it effectively makes gay relationships more okay than straight ones among werewolves.

>> No.30424036

>>30417067
Wasn't it more about how the world was already fucked, and it was just damage control now?

>> No.30424080

>>30415068
You still have yet to produce... anything.

>> No.30424125

>>30406509

Fucking love the art on that card. A dam shame the only three wolfir cards I know of are that and SIlverheart/Avenger. And then only Silverheart has soulbound (though it is fucking amazing. 5 mana for a 8/8 and +4/+4 to another creature. If nonwolfir dies you can place the bond onto a newly summoned mob too.)

Innistrad best.

>> No.30424134

>>30424036
I don't know what the emphasis is on "more (a subjective consideration), but "western civilization is evil" is definitely the key theme of WtA. Book of the Weaver does a good job of explaining how stuff like science is racism and not putting humans (especially disabled people, etc.) into death camps is pure evil, and how the Glass Walkers are a hair's width away from falling.

>> No.30424195

>>30424134
Eh, I thought the fact that you could be both a werewolf and into tech meant tech wasn't that evil.

The true evil was the Wyrm. The weaver was neutral in my mind when I read the core book.

>> No.30424241

>>30423996
>I am sure someone will just twist this into "SJW! SJW!" shit though, since it effectively makes gay relationships more okay than straight ones among werewolves.
but... didn't someone just get through explaining how gay relationships produce mpreg?

>> No.30424243

>>30424241
But it doesn't.

>> No.30424253

>>30380941
So, Jekyll and Hyde?

>> No.30424279

>>30424195
The weaver is what drove the wyrm insane.

Its open to interpretation: some text says that western civilization is the greatest evil imaginable because its of the wyrm, other text says that western civilization is the greatest evil imaginable because it is of the weaver. Both are equally valid.

>> No.30424322

>>30391855
Doesn't his size fluctuate a lot in the games and movies and such?

>> No.30424553

>>30423996
>>30424241
WtF and WtA are not the same thing

>> No.30424600

>>30424553
Care to explain which is which?

This is getting confusing.

>> No.30424729

>>30383499
This is like the faggiest post on 4chan I've seen in a month.

>> No.30424791

>>30388740
>A World of Darkness Werewolf expert

What ever became of Scaredy?

>> No.30424928

>>30424600
WTA: Garou, which, if m/f have sex, produce metis cubs that are sterile and deformed.

WTF: Uratha, which, if two have sex, produce a unihar, a purely spiritual child that hates them.

Both games have codes that say "don't yiff" in different language. Also, having sex in the war form is going to be difficult in either one. Crinos form for Garou makes it easier to fly off the handle, and is much more capable of dealing damage. Gauru form for Uratha is simply incapable of doing anything but attacking. Any given pairing is going to be two in human form or two in wolf form (possibly near-forms that are compatible, but not in human/wolfish).

>> No.30424949

>>30391111
Promethean doesn't seem like it would work with a group, either a one-on-one thing or a mixed group. The premise seems like something that needs to focus on just one Promethean rather than a group of them.

>> No.30425127

>>30424928
>Both games have codes that say "don't yiff" in different language
Don't 90% of the werewolf population comprise of the black spiral something, which are basically all rapists who kidnap humans and other werewolf to lock them in their basement and rape/impregnate them?

>> No.30426704

>>30425127
Those are not supposed to be playable. They are kind of bringing about the apocalypse.

They are like drow, but werewolves and worship the chaos gods of 40k.

>> No.30426929

>>30376987
So...what's the story behind the picture? My boner wants to know.

>> No.30426970

>>30424949
The uniquely personal nature of the Pilgrimage does strain the idea of society a good deal more with Promethean than other splats. You can have teamwork, but everyone has to be onboard.

Also IIRC having Promethans of differing humours is supposed to help balance them out.

>> No.30428347

>>30395864
That is the worst post I've seen in a long time. Everything example you give for oWoD is just a dumbed-down version of the same example for nWoD. Have I been baited?

>> No.30428583

>>30424080

>You still have yet to produce... anything.

Don't you ever think? They make no mention about the sex having to be heterosex.

>" What about homosexual activity, or less-direct sex-play? Most of the Elodoth take a conservative view, though, because they know how dangerous things can be if a sexual relationship continues to escalate." -WtF core, p. 44

why do you think that is? Maybe because the spirit side doesn't care about anything else, than the fact that there are two uratha rolling in the hay.

>> No.30430812

>>30426929
It's the Gangrel female player character from Vampire the Masquerade:Bloodlines video game.

At least I THINK that's who it is. been too long since I played that game.

>> No.30430820

>>30430812
Think it is one of the anarchs, actually.

That... one. You know. In the club.

Also best game.

>> No.30430842

>>30424322
Yes

>> No.30430846

>>30430812
>It's the Gangrel female player character from Vampire the Masquerade:Bloodlines video game.
>It's the Gangrel female player
Nah, it's Damsel. Brujah Anarch NPC.

Unless you mean the furbag on the ground.

>> No.30430973

>>30376987
>>30430846
And I am reinstalling it now.
Thanks after ventrue and tremere runs it is now time for brujah maybe.
Or gangrel.

>> No.30430986

>>30430973
Don't be a pussy and run Nosferatu.

>> No.30431034

>>30430986
I did, sneaking is fun.
Didn't have the energy to finish it though, after the first two playthroughs.
Bloodmagic rules, I was disapointed when I didn't see any results of joining the pyramid.

>> No.30431090

>>30430973
Gangrel's protean and benefits from raging make them hilarious to play against supernaturals.

When you berserk you try to drink from target unless you can't (in the case of anything not human/zombie), and instead you attempt to maul them to death. If you are a gangrel you get -1 to not frenzy and +5 to wits, strength, and stamina while frenzied in addition to the +2 stamina, +2 strength, +1 wits, and aggrevated-damage dealing greater claws from protean assuming it is on. Toss in Fortitude 5 and you get +5 soak to all damage.

Late game I would purposefully get my blood levels and health low to force myself to frenzy, then charge through the gunfire of a dozen vamps that were dealing absolutely no fucking damage to me.

Also you can stealth if you want thanks to Animalism, which I would do before going apeshit once I was revealed usually.

Basically when you play gangrel you play a werewolf that drinks blood and is super pissed.

>>30430986
Also Interestingly on my Nosferatu run my uglyness didn't hurt too much, I still ran around the streets all the time. Just have to not get too close to people.

Results in a few hilarious dialogues, like when the pawn shop owner gives you a complement on the work you have had done, or the bounty hunter who is the mad surgeon's captive freaks out assuming he worked on you too. Also gave the lady who worked at the cafe a heart attack and told the blood doll at the club "Once you go gross, nothing comes quite close".

God dammit why has no other game been half as great as Bloodlines when it comes to dialogue? It's ten fucking years old now.

>> No.30431125

>>30431090
No idea, they didn't put that much love in there I guess.
And you see what they did get for that.

>> No.30431147

>>30431125
On the same note I heard they planed to have house dagoth as a playable faction in morrowind.
Thats why it was so well fleshed out, not the only reason but a huge one I guess.

That stuff makes me sad.

>> No.30431226

>>30431090

Had to post this.

>> No.30431275

>>30431226
Hah.

>> No.30432336

>>30431090
>God dammit why has no other game been half as great as Bloodlines when it comes to dialogue? It's ten fucking years old now.

Making good games takes time. Time is money. Long development means taking financial risks.

>> No.30432801

>>30425127
10% of the total Garou population is made of the fallen tribe. 90% would make the angst quotient too close to Vampire's.

>> No.30433779

>>30432801
no, it is 90%.
It is a non PC race of "always chaotic evil" werewolves there to be slaughtered an masse, and if you ask "how come I am not depopulating the city with all those werewolf mooks I am slaughtering every session" the answer is "they repopulate really fast in their rape dungeons."

>> No.30433854

>>30433779
I believe you have them mistaken with fomori. BSDs are supposed to at least be imposing when they send the too-far-gone shocktroops out of the hives. Fomori, it's hit or miss, and they only require that a human have one bad day, or get injected with some kind of demon serum, etc.

>> No.30434275

>>30433779
They do outnumber every other tribe, but I don't think they outnumber every other tribe combined.

Their population figures are a result of their never ending blood orgys.

>> No.30434382

>>30431090
Gangrel strong. Nothing beats tearing niggas faces off

>> No.30437617

>>30431226
What does she expect going somewhere with snakes on the walls.

>> No.30437719

>>30376987
The kind that look like that and let me fuck them and go back to my life normally.

>> No.30438753

>>30424241
In several books in WtA it mentions that gay werewolf couples are fine. Hell, the Black Furies sourcebook even mentions that lesbian werewolves are a perfectly accepted thing within their tribal culture if your into that sort of thing.

Now. The person was right in that any sort of sex between werewolves of the opposite gender carries the chance of pregnancy regardless of preventatives taken.

But there isn't anything at all about two Lesbian Werewolves getting pregnant or a male werewolf who decided to be the passive partner getting Mpreg.

>> No.30438803

>>30438753
That passage may have been from WtF.

I don't know anything anymore. This conversation is confusing.

>> No.30438957

>>30438803
Maybe partly.
The WtA stuff was less 'ghostly' and more, 'Werewolf Fertility is hilariously potent.' with maybe a hint of wyld or something.

It's been a while.

>> No.30439009

I would like to mention that if you rage too deeply in WtA you go into 'thrall of the wyrm' or some such. Causes you to lose control even more than usual and do something horrible that ruins your reputation and possibly your character/teammates/enemies/everything around them forever.

What you do depends on your breed. Homids devour the nearest corpse, Lupus murder everything in sight, and for Metis you immediately turn on the nearest living or dead thing and attempt to fuck it. Possibly and likely to death.

Kinda wondering how you do that last one as female.

>> No.30439201

Reading threw this I wanted to add some of my input to the debate between NWoD and OWoD.
Before I go further I do want to say that I found out about the World of Darkness series, VERY late.
In fact it I was originally introduced to the setting when it was already deep into the New World of Darkness line. Despite that being my first contact with the series I was enthralled enough to dig up and find some of the oWoD books. Which I instantly became a fan of. In fact, other then Changling the Lost. I held most of the New World of Darkness line in general contempt.

Of the various game lines, as it pertained to OWoD I was a huge fan of WtA and thought that WtF was inferior for a number of reasons. Getting rid of the Triat, getting rid of both the Metis and Lupus and constraining Werewolves strictly to being Homids was in my mind a vast reduction in the complexity of werewolf society and was a serious shame as I had played all three types of Werewolves and the way those three played out and interacted with other Werewolves along with the more mundane society was absolutely fascinating.
I espicially loved playing Lupus because there was a heavy, "Outsider looking in." mentality and I developed a fascinating outlook based on this one amazing Werewolf Short Story that sold me on the idea of a Wolf that suddenly found itself turning into a man.

>> No.30439266

>>30439009
Here's a bit more info on it

>If a player rolls six or more successes on a Rage roll, the character enters a berserk frenzy, and spending Willpower will not bring her out of it. The character is said to be "in the Thrall of the Wyrm." The frenzy follows normal tendencies with regards to attack and duration, but it includes some even more horrific aspects.
> Each of the breeds of Garou carries a piece of the Triatic Wyrm, and during such frenzy, that Wyrm can demand its due.

>Homid:EaterofSouls has long held humans as its special childrem, and this attention includes Homid Garou. The Wyrm can drive such Garou to acts of cannibalism upon humans, wolves or eevn other Garou. When a Homid-breed Garou in the Thrall kills or incapacitates an opponent (friend or foe), her player must roll Wits (difficulty 7). If the roll botches, the Garou must stop for a turn and fest.

>Metis:Barred as they are from breeding, metis are special targets of the Defiler Wyrm. Metis Garou in the Thrall sometimes practice unspeakable acts of perversion on fallen opponents, regardless of their respective genders. If a metis kills or incapacitates a foe while in the Thrall, her player must roll Wits (difficulty 7). If the roll botches, the Garou stops fighting for a turn and slakes her unholy lust on her helpless opponent.

>Lupus:The savage, feral lupus feel the pull of Beast-of-War. A lupus Garou in the thrall will savage a fallen opponent, friend or goe, and not pull away until the body lies in pieces around her. The Garou loses all sense of mercy, regardless of her comparative Gnosis and Rage scored. When a lupus Garou kills or incapacitates a foe while in the Thrall, her player must roll Wits (difficulty 7). If the roll botches, the lupus must continues to attack until her opponent is torn limb from limb.

Not sure how I feel about it. It fits the theme of werewolves losing control, but it can trigger brutal necrogayfurry rape against your will for building a rageful character.

>> No.30439358

>>30439201
Other things that irked me was stuff like getting rid of the Triat and much of the old lore. Moreso ideas that seemed really rich and interesting.

Also the change in enemy going from tainted spirits, Pentex, Corrupted Humans and evil Werewolves the enemies in WtF seemed to be less interesting in many ways as they seem focused more on spiritual enemies and enemy werewolves then actual physical/mortal foes or abstract problems.

Another thing which made me nearly pull my hair out of my head was the divide between the Pure and the Forsaken. Where for some reason despite the Forsaken being heavily outnumbered by a more numerous foe intent on their eradication oftentimes fought amongst each other just as often as groups like the Pure. Which even today seems heavily counterproductive.

>> No.30439371

>>30439266
>Succumbing to the Thrall of the Wyrm is terrifying to the Garou. A normal frenzy is considered a defense mechanism against pain, a pure if brutal method of survival. A Wyrm-frenzy is nothing of the kind. It brings to light the inner struggle with the Wyrm, which is something few Garou are prepared to face. Unable to live with their deed, some werewolves even end their lives after such a frenzy.

So yeah. I can't imagine how awkward the table would be after your metis mauls your best friend to near death and then rapes him/her before committing suicide.

Aside from the metis thrall I have no problem though, aside from how it seems you can't spend any amount of willpower to shrug it off unlike a normal rage.

>> No.30439499

>>30439358
I continued to dislike WtF and many of the other gamelines for quite a while. But recently I began to actually....Mellow out as it were. Yes, there are warts on games like WtF, but WtA had it's own share of problems as well.

The problem was I was thinking and comparing WtF to WtA which while their isn't a problem in comparing the two, it does become a concern when you do it to the point where you refuse to give WtF a chance.
WtF does have some interesting ideas and themes. It might not be as 'Global' as WtA, but the ideas in it aren't terrible and focusing on a smaller location can be interesting from a narrative structure.

While there are things I still don't like about WtF, I don't hate it anymore and appreciate it as something that while different from WtA isn't terrible or bad.
It just needs to be looked at from a different perspective.

It would be a great thing if everyone here talking about which one is 'better' realized that the two games are different and that this isn't so much as a bad thing, but something that just is.
If you have a problem with either one there's a handy Conversion book for WtA and WtF you can use.

But I think we should move on from just having these comically kneejerk reactions of hating the newer or older books.

>> No.30441485

>>30390694
I don't get the whole Metis thing.

If you think about it, if you were a werewolf and a crucial part of the war is keeping the existence of werewolves secret and with how damn difficult it would be leading a normal, stable life within human society (and that's not even going into relationships with humans) wouldn't it be preferable for werewolves to seek out other werewolves as partners? Yes you can argue that mating between werewolves is technically incest, but so is werewolves mating with kinfolk, the only difference is is that they have a slightly larger genepool.

>> No.30441772

>>30441485

Metis are sterile. They can never reproduce, and are thus both a biological dead-end, and a spiritual violation. Certainly, if some female werewolves were willing to be impregnated with metis, who would then be used as disposable shock troops, this might work.

But it would be a self-defeating tactic, from a spiritual sense. I'm not sure how many here are actually familiar with WtA lore, but the werewolves aren't simply physical beings. They are spirits made flesh, and spiritual defilement is a fate worse than death for them.

>> No.30441807

>>30439266
>. If the roll botches, the Garou stops fighting for a turn and slakes her unholy lust on her helpless opponent.


Wait. Just wait. Metis, in general, have problems with premature ejaculation? Because, even for problems like PE, ejaculating in 3 seconds is pretty bad.

>> No.30441853

>>30441807
huh, that is a good point.
Forgot how damn awkward it is for the DM to say "roll willpower to not rape someone", the mechanics of the rape don't even work

>> No.30441915

>>30441853
Also when you consider dog breeding. The male dog is stuck in the bitch's vagina for, like, half an hour after ejaculation. Plugged up with the knot.

>> No.30442422

>>30441915
but they are human - wolf hybrids, they could have a human penis

>> No.30442478

>>30441485
Lupus werewolves are the fastest breeding, period.

Every batch of puppies is guaranteed to yield, on average, 1 werewolf. And they're mature in 2 years. And have the highest gnosis.

>> No.30442714

>>30442422
>they could have a human penis
True. Though I figure the more wolf-life they are, the more wolf-like their penis becomes

>> No.30442841

>>30376987
The Rackham wolfen were my faves.

>> No.30443604

>>30441485
That would make sense if it were an option. Metis are sterile, and always have some form of birth defect. It's not just a matter of breeding within a small gene pool. It's part of their nature that breeding among their own kind always goes badly.

In theory they should be breeding with humans and wolves (actual wolves, not werewolves) in roughly equal numbers. In practice there's a strong preference for human mates, which is considered a problem itself.

>> No.30448453

>>30442714
This is an odd conversation.

But I feel like /tg/ is the only place I will ever see such a thing that is not fetishy.

>> No.30451661

>>30448453
>that is not fetishy.
I feel ya. Didn't really occur to me until you mention it. But I enjoy the thought experiment. And hate furries. Always ruining any online game I join. Bastards.

>> No.30453972

OP's picture raped a werewolfminotaur to death :(

>> No.30455356

>>30397992
Exactly. Also, most of the oWoD lines have been milked dried. They've made all the splatbooks people actually wanted to buy and had resort to churning out more and more inconsequential shit to stay afloat.

>> No.30455387

The ones that eat people with no angst or remorse. Fuck Twilight and its kin. Vampires should be the same way too.

>> No.30455490

>>30378025

It's not a jumbled up remake. It's another game about werewolves with some similar themes.

>Whether the old one is better than the new one is undeniable, both in quality and the sense of epic, nay, MYTHIC fiction, but I do like WtF.

The thing is WtF wasn't supposed to be epic. It was supposed to be more local, personal and down to earth. I guess that's something a lot of WtA fans weren't interested in. I personally know a couple of people who really liked WtF but wouldn't touch WtA with a 10 foot pole. So it all comes down to personal taste.

>> No.30455491

>>30455387
Nigga those existed way way before twilight or anne rice.

If you let twilight's existence ruin supernaturals for you then that is your fault.

>> No.30455518

>>30377213
>>30395564
WtF isn't werewolves. It's shamans who sometimes take animal form if they feel like it.

>> No.30455591

>>30388687
As far as I understand WtF wasn't what WtA fans wanted and other people didn't care about it because they weren't looking for a werewolf game. It's pretty cool, actually. I really dig the Shadow, it's great. The problem is I'm not into the whole werewolf thing.

>> No.30455662

>>30455490
Exactly WtA was all about SAVE MOTHER EARTH, DEFEAT THE WYRM! WtF is all WE LOCAL POLICE NOW, BIATCHES!

>> No.30455666

>>30390296
The problem was that a lot of people who played pnp rpgs actually weren't that interested in the whole roleplaying thing. They just wanted to play awesome dudes with cool powers that do badass shit. That's why with the advent of the MMORPGs a lot of people left the hobby and the pnp business became way less lucrative.

>> No.30455777

>>30455491
Exactly. Some of the oldest Gothic fiction is about vampires being seductive assholes and what not. That's a great and timeless horror trope. I don't get why people keep pretending that vampires were mindless monsters before Twilight.

>> No.30455853

>>30455777
I think ti's mainly because before, we were supposed to view the dark, seductive vampires as bad, like an addiction or a temptation to do something you shouldn't. The modern way of doing a seductive vampire, judging by Twilight, is to have them be angsty edgy brooding Mary Sues. A correct use of the term, since nobody has any reason to love the irritating whiny bitch who has established that he wants to eat you or kill you and yet they do.

>> No.30456183

>>30418345
Observation changes things on a quantum level. What do you think they were referencing. Eat shit faggot.

>> No.30456224

>>30455777
>Varny the Vampire, mah nigga!

>> No.30456235

>>30434275
That and the fact that they can just corrupt any new recruits into joining. People forget that when your enemy can not only breed true, but convert others into their fold, it only spells disaster in large fucking numbers.

>> No.30456322

I remember when muju made this sketch from my post :3

>> No.30456335

>>30439499
Are you me? That's EXACTLY how I feel.

It's like everyone else doesn't understand that its possible to like both in different ways and appreciate the good things that both have brought.

>> No.30456383

>>30455490
I know WtF wasn't supposed to be epic. Hell, anyone who opens the core rulebook would know that. I was saying that WtF didn't compare to WtA in quality and a sense of epic fiction.

>> No.30456502

>>30377586
>>Implying oWoD lore is good
Go fuck yourself.

>> No.30456506

>>30456183
Now explain what that has to do with the weaver.

>> No.30456625

>>30456506
Weaver is too insane to fix the damage to a system that observation does on a quantum level. The end.

Though this probably implies that quantum entanglement would actually WORK and not break down upon observation had the Weaver not slipped off the deep end.

>> No.30456736

>>30455853
>judging by Twilight
You shouldn't judge whole genre by Twilight, though, should you?

>> No.30456757

>>30456224
>Though the earliest chapters give the standard motives of blood sustenance for Varney's actions toward the family, later ones suggest that Varney is motivated by monetary interests. The story is at times inconsistent and confusing, as if the author did not know whether to make Varney a literal vampire or simply a human who acts like one.

That's sound like a VtM PC alright.

>> No.30456929

>>30456736
I shouldn't have to, but it seems like every piece of vampire-related fiction these days that isn't connected to an old franchise just wants to be Twilight.

>> No.30456971

>>30456929
To be fair, part of the problem is labeling any supernatural interspecies romance as "Twilight-tier".

I have a creeping suspicion that it can be done right without the angst and drama on both sides of the relationship, but it either hasn't been done yet or it has and it's incredibly boring.

>> No.30456978

>>30456383
Interesting, however, that every sector of the nWoD now has dialed tiers, from local to cosmic. And that W20 had much the same thing, but in different language, as many of the stories about Garou tended to be about smaller, more approachable parts of the world and how some larger piece of the puzzle has an effect on them.

>> No.30456990

>>30383038

>tfw when you're the only person in the world who liked Changeling: The Dreaming

sigh

>> No.30457195

>>30456971
>I have a creeping suspicion that it can be done right
You called?

>> No.30457418

>>30457195
God damn, my fault. How the fuck did I forget about Buffy?

>> No.30457589

>>30417080
I wanted to run a gozno VtM for long time. Take the most over the top part of every line, the most hilarious splat stereotypes, make a crazy little system fitting all the pulp goodness and run the most cliché plot oWoD has to offer...

>> No.30457795

>>30437617
In WoD it's hard to find a club without some snakes or upsidedown crosses or ankhs or some other tacky goth shit on the walls. It's part of the personal horror package.

>> No.30457831

>>30439201
What short story are you talking about.

>> No.30457914

>>30456978
I've heard somewhere that when nWoD was young designers were told that they need to distance it from oWoD by changing the scope and toning down the wacky shit in favor of low-key "personal horror". Now that the line is old they are free to include the cosmic scale and a bunch of gonzo stuff.

>> No.30458307

>>30455666
... well than, my heartfelt thanks to MMORPG for acting as a sponge that cleaned up our community

>> No.30458338

>>30456502
The "lore" was bad and always was bad, but the *style* was unmatched.

>> No.30458502

>>30458307
I kinda agree, actually. A bunch of dudes who used to annoy me with their min-maxining and lack of roleplaying have left the group to play Aion or some shit.

>> No.30458591

I would like to see a werewolf from the old times talking with the modern werewolves and looking at them dissapointed like a wolf would be discovering that his grand children are puddles.

"Rules? packs? tribes? Bloodlines!? What the hell do you think we are!? vampires!?"

>> No.30458973

>>30458338
Go fuck yourself.

>> No.30459557

>>30458591
>packs

What's wrong with those?

And actually in some of the oldold myths vampires and werewolves were kind of the same thing. Can't remember which, but one of them would spring to life from the ashes of the other.

>> No.30461779

>>30455387
Literally every vampire in Twilight except the Cullens is like this. Even the Cullens' "friends" are all remorseless mass murders.

The setting's true werewolves are implies to be people eating monsters as well.

>> No.30462374

>>30457195
Buffy had plenty of angst and drama surrounding the human/supernatural relationships. They just did it a hell of a lot better than Twilight (which isn't really saying much).

>> No.30462756

>>30458591
>"Rules? packs? tribes? Bloodlines!? What the hell do you think we are!? vampires!?"

None of those thing were particularly associated with vampires either until pretty recently. Older vampire fiction mostly has them running solo or in very small groups.

>> No.30463227

>>30459557
>>30462756

Well, what I mean is that a real werewolf would be more wild, without the need to jerk off with the titles and all that. I imagine them more like wolves, just being what they are.

Rules? for what? you hunt, you eat, you win, you fuck.

Bloodlines? that's bullshit. You are alpha? you can fuck the alpha bitch, You are beaten by a younger one? you can fuck yourself.

And the pack stuff is just like using language to try so hard to sould more wolfy. You are from a pack or not, you don't need to say it.

Also I imagine some old werewolf frowning at someone calling himself Wolfbane, or Silverpawn, or Bloodfang the third. Wolves don't need names, why would werewolves need it?

>> No.30463275

>>30462756
Oh, and forgot to think that something similar could happen with vampires.

Had any of you read Carpe Jugulun from Discworld?

>> No.30464204

>>30457589
http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/product/80218/Dudes-of-Legend-Full-Version

>> No.30464401

>>30381379

>> No.30467917

>>30383594
Yeah

>> No.30468034

>>30377059
>>30387631
>That picture
Crap, I was trying to forget about that movie.
That was probably the most traumatizing thing from my childhood.

After that I had an irrational fear of werewolves until many years later pic related made me reconsider.

>> No.30468384

>>30468034
>Renkin San-Kyu Magical Pokan
Shit, its been a long time. That opening was badass though.

>> No.30468666

>>30468384
I kinda wish they had made a spin-off show with the same opening that was actually as dark and edgy as it let on.

>> No.30469909

>>30456335
Yeah. Sort of after a while you get tired of hating something that is still okay in some ways and just differnt in others.
If you don't LIKE some elements of WtF for example with say, the lack of Lupus? Theirs an honest to goodness conversion book with rules that let you put Lupus into a WtF game and make them fit into the setting.

Regardless of that point though. The games both try and be differnt things. WtA had more global themes and locations with enemies as varied as things like Pentex to the Wyrm and it's allies.

WtF has a multitude of Spirits that may not recognize your authority along with the Pure.

Really, the only thing that bugs me about WtF anymore is how if the Pure outnumber the Forsaken by a factor of 1 to 9 and their actually organized.....How are the Forsaken still a thing then? Especially sense the Forsaken seem to spend just as much time wasting their energy, time and resources fighting each other for land as they do the Pure.

>> No.30474107

>>30461779
>The setting's true werewolves are implies to be people eating monsters as well.
There's multiple kinds of werewolf in Twilight?

>> No.30474338

>>30458973
different anon, but maybe you should switch to decaf

>> No.30474376

>>30463227
but real wolves dont follow the alpha system, thats outdated beleif system, they simply follow common parents or essentially, defer to age over strength

so yeah, alpha wolf is either the parent of the majority of the pack or just the oldest wolf

>> No.30474429

>>30441807

Dogs ejaculate over several minutes in continual bursts, while tied with the female; the orgasmic rush only lasts during the swelling of the knot. In terms of the werewolf, he would likely experience debilitating pleasure for that 3 seconds, and then continue fighting afterwards while ejaculating on the floor.

This doesn't impact gameplay unless your DM rules your enemies have to make Dexterity rolls to not slip.

>> No.30474496

>>30463227

Would the alpha fuck his subordinate males to keep them in line?

>> No.30474628

>>30474107
There's a last minute reveal Jacob and co. are shape-shifters because of some Indian spirit magic one of their ancestors did. Meaning that they're unrelated to the "Children of the Moon." CotM being traditional werewolves who change under the full moon, and turn people with their bite.

This only matters to the plot because the vampire government has a standing kill-on-sight order regarding CotM.

>> No.30474729

>>30474376
To elaborate on this, the fighting for dominance thing was observed when unrelated wolves were held together in captivity. It was like aliens observing prison inmates to learn about typical human behavior.

>> No.30474748

>>30474628
So the setting itself allows for much more interesting stories that the ones that are actually told with it.

So the CotM are never seen in the stories, and the shapeshifters are just humans who happen to be able to turn into wolves, not werewolves that got spirit magicked?

Out of curiosity, what is the vampire government? Monarchy, council of elders, etc?

>> No.30475086

>>30474748
>So the CotM are never seen in the stories, and the shapeshifters are just humans who happen to be able to turn into wolves, not werewolves that got spirit magicked?
Pretty much. CotM are suppose to be near extinction, because the vampires have been making a concerted effort to wipe them out.

>Out of curiosity, what is the vampire government? Monarchy, council of elders, etc?
A trio of crazy old vamps got together and declared themselves co-rulers of all vampires. In addition to their personal power, they lead the largest coven in the world. So they're rule is generally accepted because no one wants to fuck with them.

>> No.30475830

>>30378025
The whole nWoD is just... meh. Especially Mage the Hippie Crap. Caves, ladders, Atlantis, Skytlantis, good sky bureaucrats, bad sky bureaucrats... Fuck. Just give more planes of existence than I can understand and a Technocracy to fight.

>> No.30475974

>>30475086
I see. Are the trio just old, powerful vampires, or are they some special progenitor breed different from regular vampires?

>> No.30475989

>>30376987
VtR: Gangrel. because none of the ridiculous spirit world/first laguage/metaphysical justification shit.

>> No.30476705

>>30475974
Just old. But REALLY old. Before Rome old.

>> No.30476748

>>30474429
Every day I learn something about you I didn't want to know before, Anon.

>> No.30476789

>>30476705
Well that's cool in itself. But I suppose like the CotM they don't really feature? Twilight doesn't seem that kind of story.

>> No.30477006

>>30476789
They're the antagonists of the final book, and make at least one appearance before that. They're called the Volturi if you want to look them up. Twilight has a wiki.

>> No.30477054

>>30477006
Cool, thanks. I wonder what other interesting ideas Twilight includes.

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