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[ERROR] No.30334703 [DELETED]  [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

/btg/ - Battletech General
The old General is dead. Long live the new General.

The wait continues for Era Report 2765: Federated Suns.

Old Thread

/btg/ does a TRO.

Never heard of Battletech?
>Read this to get a brief overview of the game and the fluff

what is Alpha Strike?
>BT too slow for you? AS has simplified rules based on Quick-Strike and Battleforce. Aimed for miniature play, fast games and newcomers.

How Battletech works?
>A summary explaining a little of everything. Read this if you stopped playing a long time ago or if you are a newcomer

>Battletech Wiki

>computer version of Battletech. Play with AI or other players

SSW Mech Designer
>create almost any mech you want. Useful to print existing mechs RS too

Battletech IRC
>come chat with whoever is online!
#battletech on irc.rizon.net

Rookie guides
>strategy and tactics

PDF links
>Want a book? Almost everything is here. We accept requests

>> No.30334877

To get the ball rolling: what are your favorite redesigns? Which ones are the biggest improvement over the originals?

>> No.30334952

>The wait continues for Era Report 2765: Federated Suns.

I am not waiting for this shit. ER 2765 is the worst pdf series they have. The Wars of Republic Era, on the other hand, is a must.

>> No.30335025

I agree with you

Reseen Marauder IIC best Marauder IIC

>> No.30335036

I just realized I put "Era Report" instead of "Field Report". I feel kind of stupid now.

>> No.30335071

I'm a big fan of the Shimmy version too.

>> No.30335151

Can't find the pic of it, but FD's version of the Falconer.

Because the legs on the original are just... what the fuck.
Pic related.

>> No.30335226

FD did a remake of the notoriously horrible Clickytech Atlas that absolutely boggled my mind.

>> No.30335227

this is now a Marauder and Falconer thread

>> No.30335264


>> No.30335322


>> No.30335325

The Falconer is still up in the previous thread, so it won't let me post it. >>30292833 Get it quick while supplies last!

FD Mackie, is a close second for my favorite FD remake.

>> No.30335366

I am done with Falconers, now is all Marauder

>> No.30335396


>> No.30335425

It seems like the Marauder was the one Reseen that was widely accepted and loved over the original Macross rip.

>> No.30335467

I like this Marauder. The art and the stats

>> No.30335494

actually, >>30335467 >>30335366 and >30335025 are all me. I really like the reseen Marauder

>> No.30335588


Even as an old-school Griffin fan, I think the PP version still has strong Griffin-ness.

>> No.30335602 [DELETED] 


Hey guys, how many Saladin tanks do I need. I have like six. Should I get ten, total? I think I should get ten. That's how Epic does it. It doesn't have much armor and just one gun.

>> No.30335621 [DELETED] 


>> No.30335637

True, though I was talking about the community in general from what I remember of the days when the Phoenix Project was fresh off the presses. The butthurt was absolutely overflowing from the fandom except in the case of the Marauder.

The only thing I can find to dislike about it is that it looks absolutely nothing like the Timberwolf, making it's IS nickname "MadCat" kind of nonsensical.

I would have liked them to retcon the MadCat to have beefier arms and the Reseen's side vents, but I was pretty alone in that opinion at the time.

>> No.30335654


Without a doubt my favourite Clan redesigns are the Vapor Eagle and Black Python. The originals are quite ugly, epecially the spindly BP. The redesigns are badass.

>> No.30335664 [DELETED] 


Mad the other guy's 6mm game has more fans that your ancient damage bubble filling grogfest?

Pic related, it's the Saladins I'll be rocking

>> No.30335688 [DELETED] 


Also, does it really need a hex base? Do tanks have a facing like the mechs do?

>> No.30335709 [DELETED] 

I think someone has the screen name "epic"...

I don't fault you for not reading the post more thoroughly, though. I did and I regret it.

>> No.30335795

>> No.30335813 [DELETED] 


I just bought one of these, and was disapointed it was this new version, and not the old one. This looks awful. I eventually gave one away, and I don't know what I'll do with the other.

I also don't like the new redesigned Longbow.

>> No.30335822

I like the original, but the absence of twin guns grinds my autism

>> No.30335841


I'm in two minds. I like the original design better, but I'm also a Macross fan so having the same mech in both is weird (wft is that Marauder flying around in space?). The PP version is more distinctively Battletech.

>> No.30335858 [DELETED] 

>Never gonna read the rules.
>Never gonna play the game.
You haven't called us dinosaurs yet, I'll give you that.

>InB4 he calls us dinosaurs while I'm looking for my reaction image...

>> No.30335918 [DELETED] 

>>Never gonna read the rules.
>>Never gonna play the game.
>You haven't called us dinosaurs yet, I'll give you that.

Well sell me on the game, Grandpa. I printed the starter rulebook (but not in color) but I'd rather have the real book. I have the original 3025 book and the 3050 book. I ordered and received Alpha Strike, but haven't found time to read it yet.


So I have six Saladin hover tanks - should I get four more? They don't seem to be very strong in the starter print-out rules.

>> No.30335951 [DELETED] 


I'm also looking at the old Longbows on ebay and the unseen ones are all like $25-35. I'd want like four, so that gets super-pricey, fast.

There's also that primed-white-with-metal-aerials version, which I'm sure is a recast.

>> No.30336037

>wft is that Marauder flying around in space?
Suddenly, Marauder LAMs.

>> No.30336093 [DELETED] 

>Well sell me on the game, Grandpa.
I took that bait a year ago. I'll let some other dumb sap do it this time.

>> No.30336094

While that is significantly better, I still think it's a dumb design.

>> No.30336270

I'm not saying it's great, just that the sheer amount of improvement was staggering, while still keeping it recognizable.

Which also brings me to the FD protomech remakes. That shit's like magic, mang.

(I used to have a pic with the whole lineup of them, but I can't find it for the life of me.)

>> No.30336458

some drawfag should finish the whole Proto line

>> No.30336515

>> No.30336698

this guy's art is so bad, I am thankful that besides LoT1 he didn't did any other cover after Tech Manual

>> No.30336752

>better quality pic is cropped
he sucks in every layer possible

>> No.30336956

Mmm, thanks. I think of these my favorite is the siren or the Minotaur.

His early stuff was okay except that he had clearly never seen a laser nor an explosion... And he smattered both of them all over every piece he made. Especially the godawful black-outlined explosions. Even his most iconic picture isn't immune to that shit.

>> No.30338641

Really? As far as I can remember, Marauder and Warhammer were the most hated reseen because how different they were and how popular the unseen are.

>> No.30338744

How do you improve on this?!?

>> No.30338769

Ohhh, I like that. Reminds me of Heavy Gear's art.

>> No.30338774


This nigga will never be canon

>> No.30338959



>> No.30339278

Smaller forearms, but that's it. The Archer is one of the best Unseens.

>> No.30339520


Marauder, Warhammer, Crusader and Shadow Hawk seem to attract the most ire.

>> No.30340034

Don't forget the Goliath and that abortion they call a Rifleman.

>> No.30340143

FD's remakes make me actually want to field protomechs, rather than vomiting at the very idea of using anything so retarded.

>> No.30340603

Nope. Both quads are better than the unseen and jetpack Rifleman is awesome.

>> No.30340916


Meh. I could care less what the Reseen look like. Fact of the matter is that Harmony Gold won't ever let the image issue go and Catalyst doesn't have the cash or willpower to fight it out in court.

Project Phoenix should have been a flat retcon that they always looked like that, but they hedged at the time and now whenever that option is mentioned the grognards flip their shit.

>> No.30341504

>The wait continues for Era Report 2765: Federated Suns.

The fuck is this series even about? Who gives a rats ass about 2765?

>> No.30341552

I hate the reseen marauder. It looks so gangly and disproportionate.

>> No.30341748

I need to agree with you. Original glaug was like 5 huge chunks connected by spaghetti. Shimmy chunkified the MAD here >>30335071 and FD proportioned the weapons here >>30334877 . Yes FD did bulk up the MAD but the biggest difference is he weapon/limb proportions, unless I am remembering shit wrong, which is quite possible.

>> No.30342048

Eh, it grew on me. Whats really important is that when the RS says the gun goes on the RT and the model ACTUALLY has that gun on the RT. My autism is satiated. I recently got an unseen Stinger LAM mini and I'm going to use it as a Wasp LAM until I find a Stinger LAM which actually has a weapon on the right arm that isn't on the left.

>> No.30342332


I do care what the reseen look like.

I want them to not look like shit. And by "not look like shit", I DO NOT mean "absolutely similar to the unseen."

Achieve that, which I think they have been slowly doing with the primitives, and yeah, let's leave the unseen in the dust.

>> No.30342368


Really? It's all subjective, of course, but the Goliath looked pretty cool. The rifleman was never cool in my book, but those godawful single-piece legs pointed in all sorts of odd directions while being too short... combined with the oddly shaped cockpit... and the radar dishes not really making any sense and being a pain to paint around... yeah, no, the reseen Rifleman can fuck itself.

>> No.30342557

Plog's reseen crusader is fucking amazing.
It makes the cockpit look good for once, it gives the skinny PP art some much-needed heft, and... fuck, it just looks great. It has motion, weight, character, and actually manages to equal the Unseen.

Besides the legs, of course. None of the Reseen had remotely good-looking legs, and Plog couldn't fix that.

>> No.30342887

Alright, so I have six Saladin tanks, should I get a few more? How many do you use in a large game?

>> No.30343010

Twenty or more, ideally.

>> No.30343394


Are they really that good? They don't seem to have a ton of armor.

Also, do they need the hex base? Do tanks have a facing like mechs? Infantry doesn't, right?

>> No.30343420

tanks do have directional armor, and thus they have a facing. they have a omni-directional turret, but the saladin's AC/20 is on the front and not the turret anyway. it has to face the enemy to fire. that and it has paperthin armor everywhere but the front anyway

>> No.30343507


So... yes on the hex base?

>> No.30343595

That was a joke, actually. I thought you were VV or summat.

6 Salads is more than enough for most anyone, and 20...
Actually, that's such a terrible idea that it loops back on itself and becomes fucking genius.

>> No.30343671


>> No.30344912

Hee hee. Itty bitty Thorn is still wearing his mecha-diapers, the little babby.

>> No.30345370

Every single time I see that frigging thing, pic related.
So I figured, why not debate a subject. Someone on the forums posted this, and I want to hear /tg/'s argument for or against what he says.

"The problem I have with Battletech, as is, mainly concerns with how for a game of Armored Combat, which was the mainstay until the Battle of Agincourt, where the English proved beyond all reasonable doubt that while a single Long-Bow could not change the entire nature of war- an entire group of them could- does not include Formations.

Since the time of Sparta, Rome and basically the entire Dark and Middle Ages, even well into the modern era Formations have been a key aspect of war because most war in the past revolved around specialized units. However Formations are absent from Battletech, because specialization has been arbitrarily removed from the game, or at the very least, blocked.

This made sense during the Succession Wars- when Mechs were rare. It does not make sense when factories are again producing brand new Battlemechs and creating new designs. At a Lance vs Lance or even Company vs Company level- yes. you might need generalists over specialists to cover such massive territory with such few numbers.

But, when it comes to Battles of hundreds of Mechs vs hundreds of Mechs, as we could see in the Dark Age where the Cappellans regularly would throw three-four battalions at a single world, in one wave, and follow up with a second wave, it is hard to believe that not even one Successor Lord would consider the idea of creating shock regiments, with the Energy/Tanks in front, followed by Ballistic/Missile based Strikers and Brawlers, with Artillery and support units at the end. In large-scale warfare this is generally what rules the day.

>> No.30345380

You don't see Archer-Knight-Crossbow-Pikemen combination troopers in the Middle Ages: you see archers in back, Knights at the side or held in reserve to flank (or charge in which case they are brought to the fore-front), Pikemen and Men-at-Arms for skirmishes and defense.

The fact that Battletech is following the generalist model, where formations make no sense, and are rarely used to me is a sign of stagnation in the meta-game. True, the recent 3045 Tech-Readouts show some innovative technologies, but the unit design still follows the tired-old formula.

In any case, Formations have been a staple of Armored Combat since the Bronze Age. Why we can't see any of this in Battletech, to me, makes the game see based on armored warfare, and more an attempt to replicate modern warfare, which to me is not really what the game is about."

Also have a Stormcrow, best Clan omni period.

>> No.30345406


That picture of the reseen Crud inspires something more like this in me though.

>> No.30345425

Only they did.

The star league and early succession wars featured formations of purely one kind of mech. Entire companies or even battalions of a single design, deployed to fill a specific role on the battlefield. After the first succession war, the practice fell out of use due to a lack of mechs. But the original star league generally didn't field mixed units of company size or smaller.

>> No.30345604


>Energy/Tanks in front, followed by Ballistic/Missile based Strikers and Brawlers, with Artillery and support units at the end.

Assuming that by "tank" he means "damage sponge" I could swear there was at least one canon unit that had tactics like this. Some Davion regiment maybe?

>The fact that Battletech is following the generalist model, where formations make no sense and are rarely used to me is a sign of stagnation in the meta-game.
What is he talking about? I see people talk about how to properly arrange your fire support/brawlers/skirmishers all the time. Unless he's trying to figure out why BT doesn't have 40k style "formations" where taking a certain combo of units gives you bonuses I think he's talking out of his ass.

As for my more personal opinion:
>you see archers in back
This is what the ARC-2R was built for from the ground up.
>Knights at the side or held in reserve to flank (or charge in which case they are brought to the fore-front)
This is how I use my 7/11 lights and 5/8+ medium/heavies most of the time.
>Pikemen and Men-at-Arms for skirmishes and defense.
Pikemen become my mid/long range heavies and men-at-arms become by brawlers.

Re-reading this, I don't think he mentions tanks/VTOLs/conventional vees at all aside from that one ambiguous mention of "tank". Does he seriously expect a discussion of formations in battletech not to at least MENTION combined arms forces? Or is he stuck on "Battlemechs are knights and therefore must conform to giant robot version of medieval tactics" mode?

>> No.30345611

And Draconis Combine fields nothing but entire battallions of Jenners, Panthers and Dragons, because the scenario writers really couldn't be arsed since only the forever-a-GM would play that side.

>You don't see Archer-Knight-Crossbow-Pikemen combination troopers in the Middle Ages

Hahaha, yeah. Keep talking, bro.

>> No.30345626

>entire battallions of Jenners, Panthers and Dragons
IIRC the Dragon is the only post Star League mech we can confirm as being fielded in company+ formations.

>> No.30345633


I agree with his thesis that BT has stagnated.

However, I think what he's saying is wildly different to what should be used to argue that point.

BT has stagnated *as a game* because of Catalyst's constant ineptitude at getting product out, making the gaming public aware that the game is alive, and their repetitive customer/public relations disasters.

The game is at a point where they can only continue with the existing fanbase if they appease the Suns and Capellan fans so the majority of BT players buy the product. The forum- and particularly the Catalyst staff- are extremely hostile to new players and even the suggestion that they should be making an effort to attract new players.

The poster in question's argument was poorly thought out and defeated itself because as >>30345425 points out, the SLDF era did exactly this, and even in the Clan Invasion era we have homogenous forces up to a battalion in size composed of a single design- the Combine had multiple battalions of Dragons, there's Barber's Marauders, IIRC the CapCon had Vindicator companies, etc.

>> No.30345752

>Since the time of Sparta, Rome and basically the entire Dark and Middle Ages, even well into the modern era Formations have been a key aspect of war because most war in the past revolved around specialized units.
>in the past
Get with the 31st century, man.

>> No.30345915

>You don't see Archer-Knight-Crossbow-Pikemen combination troopers in the Middle Ages:

The Chinese did use such formations occasionally in the small wars against pirates. They also had crossbowmen with polearms/two-handed swords and... I think pikemen with bows.

>> No.30345979

Dark Ages: commonly available hardened armor, lightweight clan weaponry and "cheap" low rating XXL engines - new lease on life for light mechs after a long era of inviability?

>> No.30345988


But the Dragon is one of those units that doesn't profit from being fielded at all. Never mind fielding it in uniform lances.

If you really wanna go ONE MECH ONLY, FINAL DESTINATION you're better off using something like the Wyvern, the Vindicator, the Orion, or the Bucket.

>> No.30346007


I think more lights should be using Stealth armour. Many are designed as scouts (either as their primary purpose or as a by-product of their speed), and Stealth armour helps with that and keeps the to-hits high, so their weak armour isn't getting hammered as often or badly.

>> No.30346014

I completely agree. Add this to the laundry list

>Extremely poor standards in miniatures. There are only 3 that are good - Timber Wolf, Daishi, Summoner. Less than 20 are acceptable, and the other 400 are shit tier. No use having 400 when they're shit tier. Even the "good" ones look like shit compared to any miniature company out there, from Corvus Beli to Gee-Dub. A game these days is built on the backs of how attractive its miniatures are. Even half-arsed nightmarishly complicated games like Kingdom Death can become a worldwide success purely because of that. Love it or hate it, that's how things are now.

>Shit fluff - The fluff, like many has said, is 60s Mary Sue 'murica winning over its other 60s racial stereotypes. DC is nothing but "muh honar!!", CC is just China, Davion is Britain, or whoever 'murica's latest dog is. Even Infinity, while basing off racial stereotypes, at least doesn't set it to a certain time period - ie. the 60s. They have their own unique political situation. Their most popular faction is space pirates neo-cyberpunk dudes. Think about it. In the 31st century, its the 60s again!

>Messy outdated product. The fact the core products are not only TW, but tactical operations, strategic operations, plus TROs and all the other shit, makes it a confusing mess for beginners.

> Muh 3025 fans. Fuck you, for the last time, we don't need to hear you crying over your outdated shit looking mechs. When was the last time you purchased any BT products? Fuck you for not playing people who wants to go beyond your shitty 3025 shit, dividing and making a minuscule TT game invisible. You're the cancer eating away at the game, but too proud of your oldbeard status to see the cancer that you are.

To CGL's credit, alpha strike is a huge step in the right direction, along with getting better manufacturers to make their starter box (if it ever comes out), but might be too little too late, not to mention muh 3025 fags crying over the newness of it.

>> No.30346109

>not to mention muh 3025 fags crying over the newness of it.

You clanners and your "3025 fan" strawmen. They barely exist. I know you haven't listened this far, and never will, but please trust me on this - people hate clans and clan players because of their own merits, not because of attachment to level 1 gameplay. Rather, even among the few existing 3025 purists, it is generally the achievement of clan players and their shit-leaking, cheetos-stained, creepy as hell powergaming animal-molesting intolerability that they are traumatized into not wanting to touch later tech levels.

Remember, people - friends do not let friends be molested by clan players! It is your civic duty to socially ostracize them!

>> No.30346122


Just as two quick examples, DA refits of the Panther and Jenner. The Panther as a slow light becomes viable again thanks to the Stealth Armour allowing it to sit at long range and blaze away with the LPL. The Jenner is a tough customer between its speed, full Jump radius, and full armour, though I'd seriously consider swapping the ER Mediums for standard ones just to keep the heat under better control while Stealth is active.

>> No.30346142


>You clanners and your "3025 fan" strawmen. They barely exist.

Over here? Not so much, I agree.

If you go to the official boards? Yeah, it's very much A Thing, and I run into it IRL as well.

Hell, not too long ago they even had a poll as to whether Catalyst should put out more 3025-era material. I don't know if Catalyst really cared, but there were a fair number of posters whose opinions are influential on the forums voicing their desire to get more material for 3025.

Unsurprisingly many of those posters were Suns fans and I suspect their vehemence in wanting more 3025 stuff can be traced to 3025ish being the last time (in their own minds) that the Suns was unambiguously the top dog of the setting.

>> No.30346257

Dahaha! I like the idea, I assure you, but I have to remind you that you are grievously overvaluing the units. You can never, ever forget the principle of affordability in BattleTech. Everyone dies in this game. This is the sole principle upon which all units should be chosen. And neither of those can afford to.

I've actually had people here argue to me that "being cheap is not a merit". Unsurprisingly, I've also met a lot of people who aren't very good at the game here too.

>> No.30346272

Personally, I think that Succession Wars materials are a must have, but that's more for making the game more accessible to new players. Getting the intro box with all these old 'mechs and then finding out "Oh by the way, unless you catch up with 25 realtime years of fluff you'll have no idea what the fuck is going on" seems like a raw deal.

But when I say "3025", I more specifically mean product made to complement the introductory boxed set contents only, but giving a few recommended options for expanding on the experience.

For example, the intro box has two mapsheets, and 24 standard mechs in all of the versions of the Total Warfare era box sets. All the 'mech lists in the campaign, all the gear, and all the game mechanics should be playable using exactly what comes in that introductory box, and any rules included in the product. RATs in the book should only include mechs found inside the Introductory 24, and a "First come first serve" mechanic for using the RATs, since players will probably have more than one given 'mech on each side.(ex: If player A and B both roll up a Cicada, but there's only one in the box, what do?). A Campaign system that isn't made with a Players-Versus-GM mechanic (As seen with the Chaos Campaign system, the Starterbooks systems) would be ideal for letting two players new to the game both participate and let their forces continue between missions.

>> No.30346419


>You can never, ever forget the principle of affordability in BattleTech.

Eh. FASAnomics. On the one hand, the FedSuns' economy is written as being barely better than the Combine's. On the other hand, they have the highest tech units of any faction until the Dark Age, at which point everyone is jamming expensive stuff on everything.

In the case of the Panther and the Jenner, they've pretty much got that stuff lying around- Stealth Armour would be the only real stumbling block, and by the Dark Age all tech is everywhere, with Stealth armour having had 90ish years to be acquired and dissected. More specifically, the Jenner is an evolution of the Experimental model we got a while back.


>Personally, I think that Succession Wars materials are a must have, but that's more for making the game more accessible to new players

Oh, no doubt. 3025/IntroTech is a great way to get into the game, but the Prototype Tech and other stuff in Sword and Dragon was counter-productive since Prototype rules are more complex than proper Level 2/Tournament-Level rules and then there's the matter of pilot and 'Mech special abilities. They fumbled that one, it could (and should) have been much cleaner and easier.

But what the pro-3025 crowd was actually asking for was that Catalyst go back and do more Historicals and Era Reports for that time period.

I'm already somewhat opposed to the whole Age of War/Star League historical thing because that was back story. We are much better served by going forward into plot that's not already predefined by FASA's "previously on" stuff or WizKids' DA time jump.

>> No.30346924

>>Shit fluff - The fluff, like many has said, is 60s Mary Sue 'murica winning over its other 60s racial stereotypes.


80s, except for the Combine, because non-white people being both affluent and technologically advanced was apparently too much. At least they loom reasonably large in the setting.

>CC is just China

CC is the Soviet Union, China and North Korea with a dash of MING THE MERCILESS in the fiction.

Talking about fiction... it seems that the fiction suffers from the cape comic problem of editors letting writers do their own thing rather than forcing them to write those cultures by the book. Those make them less of a parody of 80s world powers.

>> No.30346975

This gives me an idea.


No, this gives me a bad idea. And the Capellans think THEY have heat problems!

>> No.30348340


>The forum- and particularly the Catalyst staff- are extremely hostile to new players and even the suggestion that they should be making an effort to attract new players.

I could see how you might argue most of what you say, even if I don't agree with all of it, but the forums are actually pretty welcoming to new guys and there's some pretty regular discussion from the devs as to how to bring new guys in so this one just seems weird. Randall in particular has been talking about that one in blogs since he came on board I think - First Strike, Starterbooks, Intro box set, Alpha Strike - all new-guy stuff. They're trying - I just don't know how well it's working.

>> No.30348391

Design challenge: you are ordered to create the totem mech for the true coming IlClan - Clan Sexual Tyrannosaurus, formed in the aftermath of the Return of Disco. You are also obligated to select a thematically appropriate theme song for said mech, and include a youtube link to it in your post.

>> No.30348473

Anything becomes good when you make its primary armament clan shit.

>> No.30348499

Done. And with video! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFFgbc5Vcbw

>> No.30349568

What the fuck?


>> No.30349644

>point of comparison: 2 Dragons

>> No.30349664

So how do you make the back banners on the Draconis Combine figures? Is there a place that sells them?

>> No.30349757

I wouldn't bother. I don't see why anyone would paint drac mechs in the first place. No-one really plays the faction afterall, not even the hardcore weabos. It's just for playing mook bad guys.

>> No.30349773


Two Dragons basically make one Mauler.

>> No.30350011


Some of us... take pride in our shit...

Also, transfers? Who makes them?

>> No.30350042

Mauler has too few butt lasers, and too many heat sinks, dude.

>> No.30350456

I'm really surprised at how not-terrible the Maiuler is for how shit its loadout is.
Don't get me wrong, it's still a horrid, unoptimized mess.

But it's not as cripplingly bad as I thought it would be. It honestly reminds me of a slower SW-era Zeus. With waaaay too much ammo and massive heat problems.

>> No.30350547

It makes more sense when you fight a long campaign without reloads, or firing more than once per 10 seconds(Mechwarrior).

I'm guessing the designers tried to justify it with CASE.

>> No.30350975

I think he means BV. The Panther's clocking in at over 1300 BV which is not hugely out of proportion for TL 2 heavier lights, except it's also still slow as balls, so even with Stealth is doesn't have much to keep itself at range to make use of the stealth. Clantech doesn't help with BV either. Then you have the Jenner which has the move it needs, but also costs as much as plenty of TL 2 heavier-scale Mediums or lighter-scale Heavies. So while it does have speed and decent weapons, it still is paying a LOT for it, especially considering that it can really only fire 2 of its ERMlas when Stealth is up. And given stealth is there for long range stuff, I'm not sure why you gave it to a short-ranged skirmisher. Really, getting rid of Stealth for the Jenner would probably help. And you could stop using all clan equipment. Seriously the only thing on the Jenner that isn't clanspec is the XL engine and the Stealth armor. You're using Clan LiteTAG, ECM and AP as well as weapons.

If anything, the Jenner should have hardened armor since it's fast enough that the -1 run MP isn't crippling, swap down to standard Mlas, preferably ditch the Streak SRM and ammo and CASE entirely for more hardened... Just my thoughts. It'll still be roughly as expensive, but at least it'll have more chance to survive.

>> No.30350995

The point is that it's still a badly-made design.
The pointless light autocannons, the FF instead of ES, the thin armor, and the undersunk nature of the thing are all still terrible ideas.

Something like this would still have been a better idea than what we actually got. Or even taking a page out of the Dragon's book and replacing two of the ACs with a center-mounted LRM-10 and using the extra tonnage to put a bit more armor on and another HS or two.

Now, it is really fucking BV-cheap, however. Two for 2900 BV? That's still a lot of tubes and lasers for the price tag, optimization be damned. Which is why I will never truly hate the design.

>> No.30351076

>2900 BV
>4 lasers
a lot

>> No.30351154

Sure thing brah.

One mech that is constructed badly and uses clan weapons clearly means that therefore clantech is not better than IS, yep. Because the Vulpes would be just as good if not better using IS ERLLs.

Clantech IS better than IStech with very few exceptions, such as Plasma Cannons instead of Rifles and RACs which have more crits for longer range (Or it might be more tonnage, I forget) which still isn't totally cut and dry because they are different, it's not that they're worse than IS versions they're just not inarguably better. Unlike, say, their energy weapons, cheaper and less crit-taking ballistics, half-weight Missiles with no minimum range LRMs....

So yes, using clantech does generally tend to make a unit better than IS version of that tech. Can you styill fuck it up? Sure, look at the Loki Prime with its inability to deal with its heat and eclectic weapons. But bad design decisions care not about tech base, it's just that clantech can help make it harder to make bad design choices by being better and soft-patching things up.

Excuse me good sir, but what do you mean by aftermath? Return of Disco is still ongoing. And it will not stop going. It is going to boogie-oogie-oogie-oogie until it JUST. CAN'T. BOOGIE. NO. MORE.

>> No.30351213

There was a 'tubes and' in front of that. And I'd say that 1460 BV for two 15s and two ERLLs is pretty dang cheap. Now, you can't USE all that at once.
But it's there.
Taunting you.
And/or protecting you when a light mech gets under your LRM's minimum range

RACs are crits for range. They mostly suffer from being pretty much always a worse idea than SLRMs or cLRMs.

>> No.30351481

Ah, okay, it was crits, that's what I thought. But yeah, even with more crits, they gain range, so it's not that they're outright worse, it's just that they're not clearly, unarguably superior. And as you say, most of the time CLRMs or SLRMs are better. Possibly even HAGs.

And yeah, the Mauler's big thing is that it's low BV. And the reason it has low BV is... you guessed it, the AC/2s! Because they eat up a good 25-26 tons with them and their ammo. Tonnage that would otherwise be spent on armor and/or other weapons which would add a LOT more BV. And while the Mauler doesn't have as much armor as it could carry, it does still have 18 damage kicks and the IS of a 90 tonner. Now, I do wish they'd have gone with just 3 AC/2s and spent the last one's 6 tons on 6 more Heat Sinks, since it probably isn't getting that much of a BV discount for overheating, and another ~50 BV or so to let you use the LRMs and LLs would be awesome.

But yeah, a lot of time people lament a design for 'wasting' tonnage on light ballistics, but in reality using those tons for other things would bloat the BV a lot. Yes, on a mech that's already expensive you probably shouldn't waste tonnage on light ACs, or have it be the primary weapon (fucking T1 lights/mediums with AC/2 or 5 as the primary weapon, Jackrabbit Hermes Clint Shadow Hawk all my HATE) but it's not automatically a bad thing.

Yeah, if you get rid of an AC/2 and swap to standard you can get 4 more DHS for 1540 BV. Much better.

>> No.30351943


They always get ignored, and for a 90 ton battlemech getting ignored means you're doing something very right.

>> No.30352372

They get ignored after one round of firing only. And that's because they're dead after that.

>> No.30352656

Yep, sure thing. ~200 points of armor and ~135 of IS totally dies from 1 round of firing in an average game. Yup.

Oh wait, no it doesn't. Also, ANYTHING can die in 1 round of shooting because of TACs or heatshots or crits. And there's the psychological value of "Well it has an XL engine and ammo and low armor so I can save it for later since it'll die easy" except that it still has 200+ points of armor and the IS and you're not guaranteed crits to the ammo or XL engine. So yes, for a TL2 Assault, costing under 1500 is QUITE a feat, considering it does bring a dcent amount of fire to the table. 30 LRM tubes and an ERLL isn't a huge amount, no, but again, you're getting the durability of a heavy mech and the IS of an assault with the BV of a Medium. I'd say that's pretty good! And you CAN alpha if you don't mind overheating a fair bit. Which you might not since you'll probably be ignored more than you should be, and can take a turn to cool down.

The fact of the matter is that the Mauler isn't considered a shitheap mech because while it's by no means GOOD, it DOES cost as much as it probably should. So even though it has heat problems, even though it spends 26 tons of AC/2s and their ammo, even though it has low armor, it pays as much for that as you would expect. If it were 1700 no one would even think of using it, because it would be paying WAY too much for what you get. But you actually get it for a reasonable price. It's not GOOD, but it's not horrible.

>> No.30352852

this is true.

Unfortunately, the game is too unweildy to be played on that kind of scale. It would be far too cumbersome, even with a computer program like megamek, to play a large formation game when each individual unit must declare its own actions down to the very last detail.

>> No.30353268

what's up with IWM and those XBOX HUEG arms they like to make?

>> No.30353646

If you'd spent that time you invested in making an effeminate rant in fielding a Mauler against a live opponent, you'd know better.

>> No.30353846

As it so happens I actually enjoy girly things so thanks for saying I'm effeminate, it actually is nice of you to say.

That being said, fuck off. Have YOU ever fielded a Mauler against a live opponent? Because you know what? I haven't. I have, however, played a sizable number of games of battletech, and I know that ~1450 bv for an assault mech is quite good, especially considering what you're getting.

Put another way; the basetech Catapult is 1399 BV and gets you the same number of LRMs, though with less ammo. It also has ~40 points less armor. The Mauler, in contrast, has lower move speed, offset to some extent by the ER Large Lasers and the aforementioned armor, and higher Internal structure.

So yeah, I think the Mauler's not a great mech, but it IS appropriately priced, costing only a bit more than a basetech catapult. Could it be better, by dropping an AC/2 for more DHS and switching to standard armor to free up the crits that change would necessitate? Yes, it would be better, and only ~90 BV more. But for what it costs, there's far worse. Or would you perhaps care to argue that the Dasher D is totally worth its >2000 BV pricetag? Since apparently BV doesn't matter, only the effectiveness of the unit, and being cheap while still having decent firepower is inexcusable.

>> No.30353861

1/10 made me respond
Work on your bait, someday you too could be a master baiter

>> No.30353864

Whut up guys, I know I've been talking about whether or not I should get four Locusts, but I just visited my FLGS and I picked up a third Locust and a Madcat.

The were out of the Battlemaster and the Hatamoto-Chi.

I also ordered some samurai banners to do them up as House Kurita.

Now all I need are some magnetic bases from Litko

Wow, actually spending money on this game, that's pretty crazy...

>> No.30353880

>Because you know what? I haven't.

You can now go be urban african-american and verbose somewhere else, thank you.

>> No.30353891

Battletech needs to go back to being less of a setting and more of a system for punching robits giant face in.

>> No.30353914

You haven't said you have either. But hey, yeah, apparently it's my fault for trying to have an actual discussion on 4chan amirite? Please, continue to just shitfling and make wild claims with nothing to back them up. It's ever so entertaining.

>> No.30354081

I agree

>> No.30354792


Not so much from what I've seen. Randall's blog isn't the forums; when ways of getting people aware of the fact the game is still a going concern were bought up, a notable number of BMs flipped their shit. Paul in particular is extremely hostile to the notion that web pages he maintains as part of his job from Catalyst should be kept current- at the moment on http://bg.battletech.com/, Alpha Strike is NOW AVAILABLE! and FM 3145 is COMING SOON!

I mean really, wtf?

And when the ntion of being more pro-active with game store owners to get advertising material and product into the stores was bought up (by a game store owner no less, IIRC) the same crowd was all "it's not Catalyst's job to promote the game, if BT players want more people to be aware of BT as a game they should get up and go and promote it for us.

I can buy the upper echelons of the company wanting to bring in new players. However, they don't seem to have communicated this desire to those under that level, and certainly haven't picked people for the forum who can make that a reality.

In "I am brand new, what do I do next" threads the forum generally doesn't do too badly. But the moment a new player posts out of that environment, they get dogpiled by the usual suspects.

>> No.30355437

Whats the latest on the new beginner box?

>> No.30355501

the new NEW or the new REPRINT?
the new NEW we will see just after ilClan, and we don't know when ilClan will be released
the reprint is being held by chineses somewhere in China

>> No.30355507


Same as before: May-ish.

>> No.30356075


Better than tiny arms that are supposed to be GR or something. At least those big-ass arms are representing HPPCs.

Payload is what makes a 'Mech, and the Lament is a pretty good example of how art in BT is moving. I like it.

>> No.30356194

well, I like the Lament's art and payload, I just tislike this Templar-tier mini it got

>> No.30356811

That a custom piece or something from IWM that I haven't seen?

>> No.30356932


It's the Lament miniature they've been talking about.

>> No.30357776

Didn't realize that one was in the works.

>> No.30360063

>As it so happens I actually enjoy girly things so thanks for saying I'm effeminate, it actually is nice of you to say.


>> No.30360115

Pfft, as if. Homosexual and hetero are so fucking scrub-tier. Bisexual lets you get the best of both, it's like Clantech for sex.

>> No.30360121

>the reprint is being held by chineses somewhere in China

When the fuck will Catalyst learn to stop doing business with China?

They get screwed every time.

>> No.30360145

>not using glorious IS tech to slaughter effeminate Clanners

>> No.30360166


>> No.30360596

>Bisexual [...] it's like Clantech for sex.
Goddammit, anon. Making bisexuality look bad.

Though it DOES mean you're usually outnumbered two to one.

>> No.30360627

Nothing wrong with Clansex, just that a lot of people who use it are shit. With their double dragon dildos that use half as many batteries but last twice as long...

>> No.30360647

>posting a link to a picture on an imageboard

Kill yourself.

>> No.30360719

>expecting me to download the picture to my desktop, start a post, go to the file chooser, find the picture in the browser, upload it to the post, then submit it when I have the image already open in another tab anyway

What do you take me for, a non-lazy person?

>> No.30360741

Allow me to reiterate:

End your existence. You contribute nothing to this world.

>> No.30360763

no u

>> No.30361026

>> No.30361298


>When the fuck will Catalyst learn


I mean seriously, you could have just stopped the sentence right there.

Learning from mistakes requires admitting you're doing something wrong, and that's plainly never going to happen.

>> No.30362604


It's interesting in that they shipped a prototype mini off to a good painter in order to generate buzz. In this case, I think that the move was warranted. Some times, when the mini sucks, it's really, really not.

The problem is those people like >>30356194 who - from my point of view - have difficult to understand tastes.

>> No.30363079

My personal thoughts on the Mauler are that the prime version is crap unless used as a support mech. Its not an "assault" mech. Its a "support" mech. Long range sniping. But its poorly armed for that role since it can't use it weapons effectively. I'd drop all the AC2's and replace them with 1 gauss rifle and use the extra mass to add armor, heat sinks, and replace the XL engine with a regular one.

Them again, I am one of those guys who likes to custom almost all his mechs.

>> No.30363167

Hey, now it's another generic assault that's muh more expensive.

How about you fuck off, you munchkiny shit.

>> No.30363507

Except that that mech that you propose is roughly 2,100 BV, or about 45% more expensive. Which, as you'd know if you'd read my posts ( >>30353846 >>30351481 ), is not a good thing. Because now you're paying 2100 bv for... what, exactly? You still only have 28 sinkability after adding 3 extra DHS. So that's an ERLL and 2 LRM 15s and the gauss. So all you've really done is add the gauss and the armor. I mean, ~55 points of armor more is nice, as is a headcapper gauss, but I don't think it's worth making the mech that much much more expensive. Not to mention, as said by >>30363167 at that point it's just another generic assault mech with heavy armor and not any sort of real issues. The Mauler manages to have things that make it stand out, aside from its striking physical profile, while not making it TOTALLY shit. It has flaws, but they're not CRIPPLING ones. They might be, if it cost 2000+ BV. But it doesn't. It costs ~1450. And when most TL 2 heavies cost that much, and you're still getting some decent fire support and a good amount of armor, that's a good thing.

>> No.30363671

Is it wrong that I want pic related Mauler to be some form of canon, even though it's now "good?" I just want my dual RAC/5 carrier.

>> No.30363675

Well that looks much better than the art.

>> No.30363695

Or if it has to be a "bad" mech, take this.

>> No.30363931

> I just want my dual RAC/5 carrier.

What, the Rifleman 8D, Hammerhands 6D and 6E, Vanquisher 7V, Emperor 6D, Blackjack OG, King Crab 007, and Jagermech F aren't enough for you?

>> No.30363999

No! I must have more! All mechs should have RACs!

>> No.30364029


Maybe he's a Drac player, in which case he's shit out of luck on all of them.

In b4 "Blackjack Omni": that's a fucking Davion variant and we all know it. The Combine could field them in theory, but then in theory they can also customise a Mauler like the poster above wanted.

>> No.30364032

Well there's a fucktone more that have them if you don't need 2 of them. Seriously, Jihad and civil war era Feddies put them on everything.

>> No.30364066

Honestly? I'm fine with this.
A well done RAC mech is great. But they are worse than Plasma Rifles if you slap 'em on shit willy-nilly.

>> No.30364164

Hey guys, I just played this for the first time at my FLGS. I'm in love with it.

Thinking about buying a few 'Mechs for some squad combat. I kind of want to do a Prussian theme. Any ideas for mechs for that?

>> No.30364210

Yep, Drac here. Well, forever GM who has to play as the Combine a lot, and likes RACs.

>> No.30364228


>> No.30364270

I have zero idea on Prussian aesthetics, sadly. I will try to help if I can, however; what do you think would make a good Prussian-looking mech? Is there any kind of weaponry or equipment that you think would be appropriate?

Oh, I agree. The issue is that they DID get slapped on willy-nilly with little thought to it. Point is, go into Megamek, set Canon Units Only to true, set the year to whatever, then go into choosing a unit, Advanced Search and Add a RAC/5 and see all the tons of units with RAC/5s.

>> No.30364330


Prussian military doctrine was based around the line formation, of course. They wore spiffy blue uniforms and were one of the top militaries of their time. I'm thinking something that can fire at medium range well, but still rush in with a bayonet charge. Then possibly some artillary for the back.

looking into this now.

>> No.30364339


>The issue is that they DID get slapped on willy-nilly with little thought to it.

That's more of a thing with Project Phoenix and R-A/C-2s. Most stuff with an R-A/C- on it is pretty good.

>> No.30364460

>Prussian military doctrine was based around the line formation, of course. They wore spiffy blue uniforms and were one of the top militaries of their time. I'm thinking something that can fire at medium range well, but still rush in with a bayonet charge. Then possibly some artillary for the back.
>were one of the top militaries of their time

Yup, definitely Steiner.

>> No.30364515


Then I guess I know what to look at. Thank you for your assistance!

>> No.30364531

>They wore spiffy blue uniforms and were one of the top militaries of their time.

As someone has said, Steiner. They definitely love the uniforms. The fluff has them as hamstrung by their Social Generals (think /btg/-goers actually being given command abilities. Yeeeeah...) but I think, at least, that's more a thing that hampers their ability to do as well as they could, rather than meaning that they always fail and never manage anything right. Like many things on Battletech, the stereotype of the various factions is not actually as bad as it's made out to be.

For that kind of strategy you mention, melee weapons aren't a huge thing in BT. They're there, and they're not rare, but they're not common equipment that most mechs have, just FYI. That being said, sounds like you want a fast-ish Medium/Heavy with some ranged firepower and the ability to get stuck in. For this, I would recommend the Barghest, a Steiner mech (also, one thing to remember is that the major Inner Sphere powers have two common names, their House name and their 'name' name. For instance, the Lyran Commonwealth is House Steiner, The Free Worlds League is House Marik, etc.), Maelstrom, Nightsky and Rakshasa.

>> No.30364576


Don't forget the Griffin.

>> No.30364627

No, he needs the Banshee, what is it, 8S?
The one with the TSM and hatchet.
It's fucking amazing.

>> No.30364648


Oh man, I like the look of this one.


Thanks for the information. All my searches for Steiner were showing up as Lyran. I'll check out those mechs as well.

>> No.30364719


Other fast Steiner units:

Falconer, Blitzkrieg, Black Hawk-KU, Commando, Dart, Enfield, Fireball*, Firestarter, Firestarter Omni, Lynx, Mongoose II, Spector, Stealth, Stiletto, Talon, Uziel, Scarabus.

*I list this for completeness, but for the love of God never use one. Ever.

I think for what you're looking to try, a spine of Steiner Wall of Steel (Nightstar, Thunder Hawk, Devastator, Banshee) with a maneuver element of the faster 'Mechs mentioned to capitalise will be the go.

>> No.30364840

Well yes, but with both primary weapons having a minimum range it seems like it wouldn't fit with the charge in thing. Then again there is the one with the LPL in place of the PPC, right? That WOULD do quite well...

Also, Anon who's asking about BT and Steiner/Prussia, this guy >>30364719 is also spot on. Keep this in mind: Steiner gets a rap for being fans of Assault mechs and slow-moving walls of Gauss rifles. The thing to remember is that they gets quite a good number of heavies and mediums. Use those, because you do need some mobile elements in your force.

>> No.30364844

What are you talking about, the Fireball's great.
It costs the same as a bug for a kamikaze mech homing-missile that can kill some infantry while doing so.

>> No.30364967


Due to its size, its armour is an issue. And by "an issue" I mean "is seriously threatened by conventional infantry, never mind the battle armour it was intended to hunt or anything bigger."

The ER ML variant is a step in the right direction, but the prevalence of Pulse Lasers and similar to-hit improving weapons means venturing too close to an enemy in a Fireball is asking to be turned into its name.

>> No.30365014

It's... four tons of armor.
That's near-max on a 20-tonner. What more do you want?

Are you thinking of the Dart?

>> No.30365113


>That's near-max on a 20-tonner. What more do you want?

There's not much more you can do with the size, I know. But BA and infantry gives zero fucks about attacker movement modifiers, and the standard model has to come within 3 hexes (ie, short range for the SRMs) of Elementals to shoot them. Which is just not going to work in its favour- the Fireball will have +2 (running), +3 (3 mp, Jump, BA) plus range against the Elementals shooting back at +4 at most. It's just a poorly thought out or executed design for that job.

Against other 'Mechs, the firepower is anaemic until you get into the variants... which all still face the problem of being a 20-tonner, so armour is a massive issue.

I wouldn't even trust the "kamikaze" bit in your description from earlier- it's more likely to get gibbed by its opponents than it is to take both them and itself out.

>> No.30365244

Going from like 15 hexes away to smashing the fuck into a 'mech in a single turn makes it pretty hart to hit.

>> No.30365367


+4 to-hit.

That's all it gets. And if I'm up against a fast light with minimal armour and abysmally short-range weapons, you can bet that I'll be staying stationary to get a better chance of hitting.

Pretty much the only light with less firepower than the Fireball are the Ostscout and Ostcout IIC, which lack weapons entirely. And pretty much everything short of the Wasp with six small laser from 3025 will have better range.

The best use you're likely to get out of it is as an initiative sink. Maybe if a badly damaged opponent stumbles up against the map edge you'll be able to push them off, but that's about it.

>> No.30365388

Not really, that's what, a +4 to hit? Great. Except you're ending your move at 1 hex away from the charge target. So short range. And with the prevalence of pulse and targ comps, it's just not gonna have a huge chance to survive, especially with that XL engine. It would have a better chance at survival using those 15 hexes of movement to get good move mods and keeping at Medium range with something like an ER LL or ER PPC. But it doesn't have those. It needs to get close to do anything, even charge, and getting close is pretty much a death sentence.

>> No.30365586

I think what everyone seems to miss about the 3055 mechs was that they're not all from that date, and may have been in production as early as 3051. So we're talking about a designer whose only experience with PBIs would be like that Thor in the opening of MW3. So I think I can forgive stupid then. That it's still in production though? No way.

>> No.30365777

The Prussian army wasn't as top tier as internet wehraboos would have you believe. They only saw limited combat before the Seven Years' War, and *during* the Seven Years' War they only barely survived by being led personally by the head of state. Postwar, their tactics became ossified while their generals grew old and fat and they were wrecked by Napoleon. Then they basically did nothing for sixty years which allowed the fat old men to grow back in, fought badly against Denmark, and were only saved by fundamental changes in high-level military doctrine. They took horrendous casualties in 1870 and would probably have lost if their enemies had been more aggressive.

Historically the classic Prussian martial virtues were discipline and initiative, especially at the junior officer level, and these are both classic Steiner trademarks.

>> No.30365801


Uh, no? The Fireball was built in 3053 (MUL entry for ALM-7D) as a support unit intended to deal with Elementals when other forces on the Fireball's side ran into them.

This is a fail from the outset since under the old rules when you could only load Infernos in -2 racks you couldn't target BA or normal infantry with them any way. The other weapon is a Machine Gun, which will do dick all to BA.

It's not until you get to the -10D that you get a machine that can reliably take on other lights, much less anything else.

>That it's still in production though? No way.

Good news, then... the Corean plant that produced it got blown up during the Jihad, and I'm fairly sure they didn't put it back into production.

>> No.30367654


>discipline and initiative, especially at the junior officer level, and these are both classic Steiner trademarks

>Steiner trademarks


Those were things the Federated Suns had to bring to the table during the FedCom years. The Lyrans have always been lacking in those departments.

>> No.30368027

I don't know.

Myself, I never really used them. I can dig the samurai-esque backstory to the dracs, but flags just seem to be taking things to an excess.

On the other hand, to branch off of this statement, I recently bought a model of Hikone Castle, because it happened to be 1:250 scale (Almost Z-scale shit yeah). The only thing is that I recognize that there's a bit of an awkward aspect to address in Battletech - You've got infantry scale, and you've got 'mech scale. As such, I am wondering if there are any example illustrations of futuristic asiatic castles out there, or maybe someone even went so far as to design a castle to support 'mech-sized combatants?

The closest I'd ever seen was in a mission in Front Mission 4, but that was supposed to be mimicking a german-style castle.

>> No.30368385

It was not by my hand actuators (not that I have any) that I was once again given a post. I was called here by humans, who wished to pay me tribute.

>> No.30368783


Well, noblemen's manors apparently have mech-sized walls and gates in BT. We got an illustration of Kerensky smashing through one, but it would stand to reason that the Combine would only grant very few of its nobles the right to build such compound - what with them being wapanese and all... in any case, the one David White illustrations we got that has two Kurita mechs standing in a compound shows the walls, torii and buildings scaled to humans.

It certainly would be pretty cool for them to have that brut approach RL-Japanese took when they smacked a 25x35m all-steel Torii in front of the Yasukuni shrine.

>> No.30368986

Now, kids - things like this are why good players shouldn't give into FedFriends when they demand that RAC's should be houseruled into jamming only on 1's.

>> No.30369220

Kerensky smashing through one in which book, sorry? Could be worth it for the aesthetic reference.

I'm not thinking that I'll be able to start doing miniatures play anytime soon, but it would be worth noting now that I have a Castle model that is in Battletech scale.

>> No.30369303


Not that anon, but it might be Aaron de Chevalier kicking down Amaris' palace doors on Terra.

So you're probably looking at Liberation of Terra or something.

>> No.30369394

>Aaron de Chevalier
Who's that supposed to be, Alex Knight's shoddily-concealed self insert?

>> No.30369672

The lower-ranked Lyran officers (battalion-company level, some regimental commanders) DO fit that profile. The problem for them is the fat fucks at the top who are only there because they've got more connections than a spider's web.

>> No.30369723

It doesn't fit the FedCom picture, so it doesn't apply. The only acceptable canonical example for Steiner is "incompetent, uneducated, corrupt, cowardly", because anything else would intrude on the Davion's role as the naturally superior by birth, incorruptible, heroic, always morally correct even when not, freedom and liberty-loving natural strategic and tactical geniuses. I mean, they couldn't possibly save competent people from themselves at every turn otherwise, right?

>> No.30369779


>> No.30369974


No, he's been in BT since the beginning. He's Aleksandr Kerensky's best friend and second-in-command; when they finally attacked Earth he kicked the gates of Amaris' palace in so Kerensky could storm it.


Well, I agree with what you're saying about the Suns in general, but for this particular thing not so much. The Lyrans were pretty herp derp even in their initial presentation, remembering that back in 3025 the MechWarriors were hereditary nobility and all that. Suns officers being bought in to show the Lyrans initiative and discipline (which were the Suns' strong point before Stackpole and FASA decided they should be awesome at everything and bad at nothing) and which pissed the Lyrans off no end because they didn't like taking orders from anyone else and they especially didn't like that the Suns' way of doing things got results.

>> No.30370073

What are you doing, you retard? You are the commander of an interstellar fighting force, you have no right or reason to be in personal contact with enemy forces.

God damnit, I hate BT fluff.

>> No.30370185

BattleTech military leaders lead from the front for the same reason generals led from the front during ancient and medieval times.

Or to put it another way, it's a game about mechs set in the neo-feudal future of the 80s. Get over it.

>> No.30370912


C'mon! It's a great game, but it's also turned stupid as hell simply due to the writers. They could have confirmed these things by spending an afternoon in the library, or by talking with a friend who's been in the army. But no. They had to do it all "my way". And the end result is horrid garbage. There's no way of "getting over it". It's objectively idiotic, at the same time attempting to hold a facade of "SRS BSNS scifi military fiction" and then incorporating elements that barely made sense to 6-year-olds in the saturday morning cartoon version.

It would be better if they had gone 100% saturday morning cartoon style. But that's too much to ask, as the people who write the fiction take themselves far too seriously to "stoop so low" as to admit that they really aren't capable of writing serious science fiction.

>> No.30371117


Anybody know what mech this is?

Also, best way to get ahold of tons of plastic mechs? I don't see sprues on ebay anymore, what's up with that?

>> No.30371150


OP hey, what's this mech?


See, I don't know why you would paint them white. The red looks so much better.

Also this guy did 15mm mechs, and painted cherry blossoms on them and shit.

>> No.30371163


Cherry blossoms

>> No.30371545

>Anybody know what mech this is?
The Vixen.

>OP hey, what's this mech?
That one is the Grendel

>> No.30371590


It's the Incubus/Vixen. The others are reseen, I think.

>> No.30371634

Jeeze, what happened to it then?

>> No.30371669

They fixed it

Nope, they are unseen

>> No.30371882


Can't make it too Gundam because Harmony Gold holds the right to humanoid mechs larger than four meters for the whole world except Japan.

>> No.30372673

More like "we don't want to deal with international IP disputes fucking ever again"

>> No.30372871

>international IP disputes
>something that basically happened because the US did not recognize IPs not from the US or Canada until the 80s and HG basically banked on judges not giving a shit about them trying to rob a bunch of Japs silly

Yeah. Sounds very international.

>> No.30372919

Wat. More like the group that sold the rights to Macross to HG in the US didn't have the rights to sell, and HG has been strongarming everyone who complains since.

>> No.30373987

>who - from my point of view - have difficult to understand tastes.
wrong point of view then
if the art doesn't have huge arm, why make the mini with huge arms? everything but the arms are good, that's simple. you are the one that don't understand taste here

>> No.30374242

Design Challenge:

Take a classic mech, such as something from TRO:3039, and bring it up to 3145 tech levels without changing the original design's role.
i.e. If you start with a missileboat variant, it has to stay a missileboat, but it doesn't have to keep the exact same type of launchers.

Give a Longbow ELRMs, or make an XXL Charger; slap some X-pulses on that Grasshopper or toss some Thunderbolts on your Whitworth.

>> No.30374247

Get your eyes checked, nutsucker. I hate IWM most of the time but this one is great.

>> No.30374326

Uh, The Lament DOES have huge arms in the art. This is like the first art-accurate mech they've made in half a year.

>> No.30374393

can we expect the book by the end of the week?
like, tomorrow?

>> No.30374481


Fuck I love the cover art on the past two-three years of books.

>> No.30374531

that's because they are paying the artists to make them

at least I think so

>> No.30374675

So what's going on with the TRO? Muninn hasn't been posting much lately.

>> No.30374714

They only led from the front because they didn't have radios and other effective ways to quickly and effectively communicate and give orders, or get a good sense of unit positions except to be there.

Battletech however, has radios and sensors and all kinds of shit. So there really is NO reason for Kerensky or Stone to be on the front lines, or any high-level army officer. Because it puts you in unnecessary danger, and the fact of the matter is that anyone can hold a gun (or pilot a fuckhueg mech) but only a few people are good leaders.

>> No.30374807

Sunny was actually kinda clever about that. He piloted his Emperor just enough for the troops to think he was fighting with them, but most of the times it was piloted by a bodyguard as sunny hid somewhere safe with a good comms suite.

He had a bad case of real life.

>> No.30374886

>Sunny was actually kinda clever about that. He piloted his Emperor just enough for the troops to think he was fighting with them, but most of the times it was piloted by a bodyguard as sunny hid somewhere safe with a good comms suite.

Exactly. But Devlin, just... Also WHY does he have his own custom Atlas II when ALL the remaining Atlas IIs were taken with the SLDF when they fucked off after dealing with Amaris? Yes, that means the clans MIGHT have one or two kicking around, but then how come his II is still totally IS tech? It's so DUMB. And so is battletech. Dumb isn't necessarily bad, it's just dumb. But this is BAD-dumb.

>> No.30375011

I hope you don't mind a repost as long as it satisfies your challenge requirements.

>> No.30375084

fuck this rule

I will post my modern Strider X and Owens X because those two deserves DHS and some more

>> No.30375127

>While they were in possession of Defiance Industries factories on Hesperus II, the Word of Blake produced several runs of the Atlas II for their troops.

>Stone’s Atlas II was assigned originally to the Blakist garrison on Kittery, but it became Stone’s command vehicle when the planet was liberated.

-Technical Readout: 3075

>> No.30375169

He's still around, but work seems to have stalled.

He was unemployed when he started, but I think he found a job and is now busy. Also it's hard to make a /tg/ TRO when /tg/ doesn't know what the fuck it wants and only like 5 submissions were anywhere close to complete. And then some fuckwit who hates Muninn went around trying to troll him every time he posted anything, calling it "TRO: Muninn" and shit. He hasn't said much about it in the irc in a while though.

I think he actually should just do his own thing, 95% of you are faggots who do nothing but bitch about FedSuns and CapCon and tear down everything good in /btg/ and the hobby.

>> No.30375831

>I think he actually should just do his own thing, 95% of you are faggots who do nothing but bitch about FedSuns and CapCon and tear down everything good in /btg/ and the hobby.

EXCUSE me? We also bitch about the Clans, THANK YOU VERY MUCH!

>> No.30375974

Have you ever thought to yourself, Gee, I sure do love being a soldier in the GLORIOUS LYRAN COMMONWEALTH ARMED FORCES, but my CO is an idiot who can't tie his own shoes! How can I keep him from getting offed and being held responsible when he insists on being an idiot?

Well, think no longer! From the people who brought you the Hauptmann comes a new Omnimech, able to withstand even the most foolish of pilots! Introducing the Kommandant! Featuring as much pod space as the mass of TWO Hollanders, the Kommandant is built on a weight-saving Superheavy Endo-Steel frame and fitted with over thirty four TONS of Heavy Ferro-Fiberous armor! Why the need for such weight savings? Because the Kommandant features a standard engine, ensuring that it can stay in the fight longer and withstand the harsh beating that your CO will no doubt put it through! As if that wasn't enough, the use of a Tripod chassis allows for a special cockpit with a dedicated Pilot and Gunner, letting you and another brave HERO OF THE COMMONWEALTH deal with positioning and target priority while Uncle Hogarth deals with the innovative Touch-Tactics Screen! Nothing more than several buttons and LCD lights with an overview of the battle on a screen in the center, the TTS lets your CO feel like he's doing something while the real soldiers do what needs to be done!

Buy yours today!

>> No.30376087

>Featuring as much pod space as the mass of TWO Hollanders
this nigga needs a TMM to mount handheld Hollanders

>> No.30376184

>Fire support, inbound. Hunker down out there, Silver Hawks, the big guy is about to go down hard and we wouldn't want any of you to get a taste of his medicine.

>> No.30376215

Jokes aside, I fucking hate it when threads become bitchfests.

Any sort of fun or interesting conversation is stalled and low tier trolling leads to actual mad anons arguing for dozens of posts.

It feels like all the goodness in /btg/ stagnates and turns bitter.

>> No.30376432

Oh, I do agree with you. I enjoy a bit of levity, hence the joke, but I really do wish people wouldn't get so attached to their favorite fictional space nations. /btg/ used to be fairly chill 2-3 years ago when you got maybe 1-2 threads a month and they lasted for days and days before autosaging. I think it's a good example of how introducing lots of new people into a group can lead to a lot of loss in, well I'll probably draw some flak for this but, quality of that group.

Still, I think we manage better than some games here on /tg/. And we do manage to get things discussed a fair amount. I will agree that it's not nearly as much as it should be and the trolling and arguing really do drag things down.

>> No.30376477

Can i use Battletech to proxy Tau XV8?

>> No.30376529

Woah, big, slow mechs are quite susceptible to artillery? You're blowing my mind, man! Next you'll tell me that the Earth orbits the Sun, or that water is wet!

>> No.30376548

as soon as I see a giant post with any faction name on it, I close the thread. nothing good comes from those posts

by the way, why there's a Shadow Cat made of types? who made this?

>> No.30376758

Any other thoughts on >>30375974 ? Ideas for new configs, comments on the design, thoughts, criticism, etc?

>> No.30376795

What if we added 3 iHGRs with 10 tons of ammo?

>> No.30376816

You could do that, yes, though you'd have no weight for CASE and you'd have low battlefield endurance.

>> No.30377829

Yeah, and you don't want your bloody command mech to be that mech. You put some no-name guy in it who's competent but unimportant.

>> No.30377924

Mmhmm. So what do you do with the idiot CO then? Because he's still there and he's gonna want something big for himself. See, your plan is all well and good until it meets up with politics and idiots, like most plans in fact. Because guess what, if you didn't guess by the tone of the post for it, the idea is that it's there specifically because they expect him to draw a ton of fire and do stupid things. So giving him something so slow he can't possibly run ahead to his death, and armored enough to withstand a beating, is the goal. And if he gets left behind in a retreat because of his speed, well... command doesn't have to know about that.

Also, sure is ~assumptions~ that you have decent arty support, or that you'll be able to hunker down while the rest of the dude's company is hammering away at you and is probably using actually GOOD Lyran heavies and mediums that do move faster than 3/5, and can dig you out or flank to handle the arty.

It's not a good mech meant to take the fight to the enemy, it's a huge metal babysitter.

>> No.30378035

Wow, you're a cunt.

What kind of cunt?

The kind of cunt that sees
>who - from my point of view - have difficult to understand tastes.
And equates that to
>you are the one that don't understand taste here

"How do I collective versus individual sense?" -you

>> No.30378390


Uh,... are you sure? I'm looking for it on the IWM site, but can't find it.

>> No.30378454

>Uh,... are you sure?

about Vixen or Grendel? because that Vixen isn't made anymore

>> No.30378715


New Dragon design intended to act as bodyguards for Dragon-IIs, without being too reliant on ammo-dependent weapons to deal damage.

>> No.30378954


Yes the original Vixen mini has been OOP for, what 15 years or so? You're only going to get the redesign's mini unless you look on ebay these days.

>> No.30379549

>The Field Report 2765 AFFS is completed, but H:WotRE is so close on it's heels that we're gonna release together

Not one but two new books soon, fellow mechwarriors

>> No.30379954


Yay. "Why House Davion is more awesome than everyone else combined, parts 1 and 2."

Just what we didn't need.

I mean, it's not like HB: HK, IntOps, or ilClan were promised first and longer ago, or anything.

>> No.30380217

Now you are just being a faggot.
Please, stop

>> No.30380309


So wait, is that the redesign or the original? I just want the one in the photo.

>> No.30380320


No, u.

Seriously, though, it's obvious that the Republic historical is going to put a lot of focus and effort into the Victoria War. ilClan was supposed to come out before it, but that idea got shelved in a hurry, either because Catalyst has no idea what to do next or because of certain events and fallout on the official board.

The entirety of the 2765 books were announced and planned *after* all the writing was complete for HB: HK. It went to art before any work was commenced on the Republic historical, but was sidelined yet again. The frigging Fiefdom of Randis has a more recent and in-depth treatment than the Draconis Combine.

TL;DR: Some of us aren't Cappies or Feddies and would like to get a bit of respect for a change.

>> No.30380363

>implying House Davion isn't going to be the ilClan

>> No.30380473


They couldn't be that stupid, could they?

Oh, dear God. I'm hoping for Catalyst to not be that dumb in the face of all evidence to the contrary.

Hold me, anons :(

>> No.30380553

First, Wars of the Republic is also going to have a big section devoted to the Second Dominion-Combine War or whatever they're going to call it. The Cappies will probably get the most page time, but they're also going to lose twice.

Secondly, the AFFS during the Star League Era was notoriously weak, so the upcoming Field Report is probably not going to be especially glowing.

Thirdly, the Handbook: House Kurita is part of an unpopular and unprofitable series and is set before the frigging Jihad. We're lucky Catalyst is going forward with it at all.

tl:dr: Get a grip.

>> No.30380861


>First, Wars of the Republic is also going to have a big section devoted to the Second Dominion-Combine War or whatever they're going to call it.

Considering that the Ghost Bears never lose, I don't see it going well for the Combine.

Secondly, the AFFS during the Star League Era was notoriously weak, so the upcoming Field Report is probably not going to be especially glowing.

Whilst I would like to see that, the expectations are otherwise given the major military build-up everyone had and the way Suns fans have been predicting their Golden Lion will be a killer badass doom WarShip since forever. There's even a thread on this right now.

Yeah, we know how the 1st Succession War went, but the Combine was pretty herp derp in its 2765 FR.

>Thirdly, the Handbook: House Kurita is part of an unpopular and unprofitable series and is set before the frigging Jihad. We're lucky Catalyst is going forward with it at all.

The series became unpopular because it both stalled and focused on less-popular factions first. HB: HM and H: MPS were both given a higher priority than HB: HL or HB: HK. What were they really expecting to happen by doing that and delaying the series again and again?

>> No.30381117


Original mini


>> No.30382085

>Considering that the Ghost Bears never lose, I don't see it going well for the Combine.
Combine does ok, Nova Cat is the one fucked in the ass

>> No.30382253

>Whilst I would like to see that, the expectations are otherwise given the major military build-up everyone had and the way Suns fans have been predicting their Golden Lion will be a killer badass doom WarShip since forever. There's even a thread on this right now.

So? Fanboys are always giving in to wishful thinking. I seriously doubt the Federasts getting anything better than what the Cappies or Dracs got.

>The series became unpopular because it both stalled and focused on less-popular factions first. HB: HM and H: MPS were both given a higher priority than HB: HL or HB: HK. What were they really expecting to happen by doing that and delaying the series again and again?

The series stalled because faction-specific sourcebooks don't sell well anymore. TPTB have stated this numerous times.

>> No.30382333

>The series stalled because faction-specific sourcebooks don't sell well anymore. TPTB have stated this numerous times.

And you don't think this has something to do with opening the series on the least-played (FWL) and third most popular (Lyrans) instead of going Suns, Capellans, Lyrans, Dracs, Mariks, Periphery had something to do with this?

It's not like Catalyst were unaware of their demographic distributions for fans.

>> No.30382452


Not the first guy, but I don't think it does. It's not this series: it's faction books in general that don't sell well. I really doubt the order FanPro decided to release the books way the hell back when was going to change this fundamental fact (even if your ranking of faction popularity is right; I'm not aware TPTB have ever released faction popularity rankings).

>> No.30382593

Why would a fan of the FS or CC buy their book if it came out as the first in the series when they wouldn't when it came out later? And how would that make them buy other books in the line?

>> No.30382628


Okay I got to get the original one then. No wonder I like it so much, it's foreign

>> No.30382973


Well, it's not foreign so much as drawn by Victor Musical Industries specifically for TR: 3055. The remakes were made when the devs were gunshy of another rights fight (Though since the Vixen et al were made and owned by BT, I've never understood why.)

>> No.30383088


Because TEN YEARS AGO when the series started we hadn't lost anywhere near the number of players we did due to the Dark Age line, the Jihad plot, or Catalyst's general mishandling of BT.

Basically, what it amounts to is using the books you know will sell lots of (Suns, Cappie) to subsidise the production of the ones you know won't (everything else) with shorter print runs of those other products.

Not having a two-year gap between HB: HS and HB: HD would help. As would not having another two-year gap before HB: MPS (seriously, why did the Periphery even warrant a HB?). And then another two years after that for HB: HL. And we may get HB: HK a few days before the heat death of the universe. Maybe. If some more important Historicals or April Fools' products don't take precedence between then and now.

>> No.30383516

I think there's a bigger issue though.
Someone who's already a dedicated fan of any given faction had probably read the original faction book, and has also probably kept up with the various source material as to what's been going on since 3025.

So some new pictures and a couple new units that are often unusual sorts of things that will likely be rarely used on the table just didn't really make the new books worth the asking price.

And new players run afoul of the sheer amount of fluff there, much of it being inconsequential to the modern eras the game is really set in, and stuff like the BT universe PDF provides smaller, simpler overviews of the factions that gives them what they often want and need to know to get the feel of things.

>> No.30383803

>less popular or interesting than fucking space samurai and space chinks

Get out my face nigger.

>> No.30384037

>how come his II is still totally IS tech?
But it is not.

>> No.30384271

>Victor Musical Industries

What the -fuck- is Victor Musical Industries?

There's ANOTHER huge legal rights fuckup?!

>> No.30384689


They sub-contracted the IIC art for the Clan 'Mechs to Victor Musical Industries. IIRC they were Japanese, but it's been a while.

Long story short the rights may have been a bit messy due to the legal intricacies of FASA's demise, and as the anon mentioned Catalyst was probably worried about there being other IP rights issues if they used those images.

But the rest of the Clan machines were done in-house, so I don't know why they felt the need to revamp and wreck so many good-looking machines, like the Incubus and Vapor Eagle.

>> No.30384731

A Japanese company, now known as Victor Entertainment, that produces all sorts of entertainment, stuff, including the obvious music, but also TV shows and anime and such.
How FASA came to approach them to design the non-omni Clan mechs in TRO 3055, I don't know.

You'll notice that in the original TRO 3055 say "Battlemech Design © Victor Musical Industries", so I don't think FASA and onwards ever technically owned the designs, even if they commissioned them. Basically, Catalyst/Topps is beign gun shy and just not risking it.

I'm also curious as to why all the B&W illustrations are actually done by the usual artists- the color images are credited to Dana Knutson for the IS mechs and Nobuyuki Igame and Atsushi Takeuchi for the IICs, the only other Japanese name being credited is to the cover, Kazuhiko Miyake along with Steve Venters.

Makes me wonder about the original designs, and why that art wasn't used.

>> No.30384764

So yet another Battletech fuck-up and waste of money. Got it.

>> No.30385151

Can someone give me the lo-don on the Simian and Centaur BA?

>> No.30385331

Yup, totally looking forward to seeing how that went down in detail.
Fucking BDS.

>> No.30385438

>That feel when never having an Unseen Conjuror sculpt

>> No.30385670

The Simian is pretty much a medium swarmer, it only carries one gun and has magnetic battle claws, it's quirk being it combines 2 ground MP and 3 jump, which also leaves it slightly thin skinned at 7 points of armor.

The Centaur is all about bringing cheap artillery to the table. Each shot is kind of weak, but you make up for it numbers. They're slow, but have magclamps so they can hitch rides.

>> No.30385687

>2 ground MP
>3 jump


>cheap arty
Isn't vee-mounted tube arty already cheep enough?

>> No.30385980

>Isn't vee-mounted tube arty already cheep enough?
Not really.
Most arty vehicles drag along too many other weapons and shit, which isn't entirely unreasonable if you want it actually on the table, but you're still paying for capabilities you generally don't want to use.

And specifically, A Centaur squad is 269 BV. I think the only think cheaper is mechanized infantry using artillery field guns, like the Thumper Platoon in TRO 3085 at 79 BV, and you get a full size thumper for that too.

The thing is, they have the frailties of conventional infantry, and while they have 3 MP, they also have a transport weight of 40 tons, unlike Centaurs which can be schlepped around by many infantry carriers, and the magclamps letting anything else do it too.

>> No.30386417


You mean the BDS that won control of the Combine some time ago and has been setting policy ever since?

>> No.30386472


I thought they produced a mini for that?

>> No.30386626


They did. But it's been out of production for a long time and was replaced with an extremely derpy revised version.

>> No.30386740

Yes. Chief reason the Combine can't have nice things, and also the Nova Cats. Basically, I want to know in detail how much more intensely I need to dislike them than ever.

>> No.30387119

I actually came out of reading Handbook House Marik liking the FWL less due to the handbook being dry as shit and reading like a some sort of political documentary on all the different bills that were passed.

>> No.30387187


Which, unfortunately, is the legacy of sidelining so many factions so that the FedCom show (and later, FedSuns/CapCon show) got all the attention. The handbook series could have been done a lot better, but the problem for much of the pre-Jihad era is that everyone else spent their time picking their noses, drooling, and shitting themselves whenever they ran up against the might of the FedCom. So the majority of their history is "we did this thing, and it didn't work, so then we fought amongst ourselves and tried another thing, but that didn't work either so we fought amongst ourselves a bit more, and then..."

Those eras could have been made more interesting and fleshed out for the handbooks, but nope.

>> No.30387217

Pretty much this.

Which in part is why I liked the Jihad. Nobody was left twiddling their thumbs and herping the derp like they'd been doing since around the end of the 3rd succession war.

25 years of nothing is a hell of a way to go for the FWL.

>> No.30387468


Well, everyone was involved, I'd agree to that. Some factions (Combine and FWL, primarily) herped derps, but being stupid and active is still an improvement over being stupid and passive.

Not much of an improvement. But an improvement nonetheless.

>> No.30388337

Is MediaFire guy still with us?

>> No.30388664

Yes, kind of.
Need something?

>> No.30388717

Just wondering if you're going to be uploading Wars of the Republic and Field Report: Federated Suns.

>> No.30388941

Yes and no-ish.
I'll buy WotRE as soon as I see and upload for you guys. I dislike the FR series, so I don't buy any of its books. I'll upload it only when I find it in the internet.

>> No.30389109

>See, I don't know why you would paint them white. The red looks so much better.

Ash grey, for First Genyosha

Because this regiment carried the gear I wanted to use, according to Field Manual Draconis Combine.

Not interested in 15mm in the least, and painting cherry blossoms and the ilk on anything more than a lance would be agonizing.

>> No.30390986

Okay... still working on that pseudo "1:72" Papercraft mech project of mine.

I'll be drawing the elevations of the Glass Spider next.

>> No.30391287


A Marauder rebuild where the Medium Lasers and A/C-5 are replaced with Light PPCs, and BC3 is added.

Because reasons.

>> No.30391401


>> No.30392548

You are a mech engineer contracted to make a heavy fire support mech to put the Awesome to shame. An anonymous email sends you what looks like a Fafnir on four legs. Wat do?

>> No.30392612

Buy more Awesomes.

>> No.30392626

/btg/, what do you think of the optional rule in MegaMek that vees can't be targeted by infernos? Good idea or bad?

>> No.30392734

And while we're at it, how do you go hull down with vees in megamek? What does it do?

>> No.30392773

Stupid. "Oh, it's a vehicle, instead of some other thing? Better not fire this weapon that's useful against it."

>> No.30392793

Given it's listed as Dark Age, I'd drop a ton of ammo (14 shots per gun isn't horrible) to upgrade to CASE II.

>> No.30392801

Is it a rule because infernos are too good against vehicles?

>> No.30392826


>> No.30392841

"Oh, it's a vehicle? Better not let it use Double Heat Sinks and make it pay 50% more in weight for fusions engines than anything else! Also make it incredibly vulnerable to mobility crits. And give it terrain restrictions and higher MP costs to compound the difficulty in making them fast due to fusion engines weighing more."

If they're not going to do smart, realistic things with the vehicles, then I don't see how they have any ground to stand on demanding to use smart, realistic things with regards to what can and cannot target them.

Also, quadvees and tripods which have 2 crew gets all sorts of benefits for dedicated gunner and driver. Vehicles, which have ALWAYS had this? Nada.

>> No.30392870

Yes, infernos are kryptonite to vees.

The problem is that it rapes vees, and only overheats mechs. Vees are already vulnerable enough to multi-crit weapons, even with vee effectiveness and crits not immobilizing. It's meant to solve a weird artifact of the original rules, just like vees should be allowed DHS, not pay stupidly high amounts of surplus weight for engines, have retarded terrain restrictions (seriously, vees should go up a fucking slope faster than mechs) and all sorts of vee-hating faggotry.

It's a game about mechs, sure, but vees shouldn't be useless as anything except pillboxes.

>> No.30392964

>Also, quadvees and tripods which have 2 crew gets all sorts of benefits for dedicated gunner and driver. Vehicles, which have ALWAYS had this? Nada.

This right here is the most offensive, especially given the absurdly high crew sizes many BT vees have. When there are 14 dudes doing things then for fuck's sake give them a bonus to it. It would also explain how shit vees like the Scorpion can still be threatening: the Podunk Miltia might not be as hot individually, but when they each only have one job they are better than 1 mechwarrior trying to do everything himself.

>> No.30393043

It's still a stupid as fuck rule, similar to a lot of "fixes" that MM offers as unofficial rules. Instead of something logical like "Reduced inferno effectiveness vs vehicles", we get "Nope you can't shoot them". Instead of a cluster bonus or other slight fix for UACs, we get the stupid "get two to-hit rolls for UACs" rule.

I'd rather keep bad initial rules than try to fix them with worse optional rules.

>> No.30393058

Found this for ya.

>> No.30393069

That's because the only fix is to not allow it. Vees that take one heat over their capacity instantly die.

>> No.30393159

>That's because the only fix is to not allow it. Vees that take one heat over their capacity instantly die.
What. Vehicles take a critical hit at a -2 penalty when hit by an inferno missile.

You are using Total Warfare, right? You're not still using partial cover as +3 to hit and roll on the punch table, right?

>> No.30393261

Then stop bitching here and make a request to the MM people. They listen. A good number of the optional rules are things suggested by players.

>> No.30393855

Y-You mean there's a chance that for christmas I can have Megamek:1945?

>> No.30394108

If you can get them to have infantry and BA ride on vees, then yes.

>> No.30394182

Under the current rules (Total Warfare, Tactical Operations, etc...) there is no way for vehicles to gain heat. They take critical hits from infernos SRMs, and inferno arrow IV counts as 5 inferno SRM hits. Plasma weapons deal extra damage instead of heat to vehicles. Vehicles driving through burning terrain have a change of taking a critical hit. Extreme heat and cold slow vehicles down. Magma is the only hot thing that instantly destroys vehicles (Because you drove your tank into fucking lava)

Additionally, the "Vehicles are destroyed if they gain any heat" rule has been removed (mainly because it means nothing when nothing gives heat to vehicles).

>> No.30396091


Reject it and buy a bunch of Large Pulse Lasers from the Sea Sharks or Wolves in Exile. Then retool the Awesome line to produce the AWS-9Q, but with 4 Clan LPLs and 4 Medium Lasers. Or 3 Medium Lasers and C3.

>> No.30398174

>Then retool the Awesome line to produce the AWS-9Q, but with 4 Clan LPLs and 4 Medium Lasers. Or 3 Medium Lasers and C3.

My dick can only get so erect, man.

>> No.30398565

Hm. Read some stuff on spanish fencing styles, and thought of this. Something that has a good ability of keeping and dominating its own preferred range.

>> No.30399052

Stealth armor seems a bit dodgy to me, but t a jumping energy boat with snubbies so I can't really say no either.

>> No.30399060

You can only go hull down in a position that infantry have dug in at in MM, because otherwise a vehicle can only go hull down at half levels, which MM doesn't have, where it works similar to partial cover, but for vehicles. The exception is large vehicles, which use level one hexes.

Attacking a hull down vehicle incurs a +2 to-hit from any attack from the front or side(or whatever side happens to be between the LOS of the attacker and the vehicle if it's adjacent to a half level hex), and any motive crits are ignored, but a hull down vehicle can't fire any front (or appropriate direction if adjacent to a half level hex), so only turreted vehicles can really make full use of a hull down position.

>> No.30399413

>seriously, vees should go up a fucking slope faster than mechs
I'd say it's going down hill where vehicles should really work better, like how Heavy Gear does it: units walking have the same extra cost going up or down elevations, but units using ground MP pay the usual MP cost going up, but no extra cost going down.
The big thing for me though is vehicles paying extra compared to mechs.
TacOps pg 218.

Though anything 15 tons and below actually gets penalized for using those rules (though vehicles less than 15 tons often aren't carrying enough weapons to shoot at multiple things) and a vehicle has to be over 31+ tons to actually have bonuses, because the arbitrary way the construction rules determine crew numbers. I'd rather it work like support vehicles, where you actually pick the crew number and adjust control weight accordingly.

I agree those rules, or something simpler like quadvees and tripods use, should be standard rules.

>> No.30399666

That is a relatively new addition that has been errata'd in. Also you will notice these are optional rules, not core rules, and that as such, as well as their rather stealthy addition, means that it's going to be hard to make people aware of them, much less get them to use them, optional as they are. Quadvees and tripods though, have the benefits in their core rules, and have had them since their implementation (for CBT anyway, I dunno how WizKids did the Ares tripod for clickytech).

Similarly, Homing Arrow targeting an 8-hex radius around the hex it's fired at is now a core rule for Arrow IV rather than optional, as seen here in the latest errata thread: http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,18161.0.html

But it's not exactly being heralded and shouted to make people aware of it, is it? It's a fairly big rules change that makes homing arrow much less prone to "you stepped outside the arbitrary edge of the mapsheet, you're safe" kind of thing and does change things, but it's far from noticeable.

>> No.30399894

>That is a relatively new addition that has been errata'd in.
They date back to Maxtech, and were still there in TacOps' first printing.
>Also you will notice these are optional rules, not core rules
I.... did?
>I agree those rules, or something simpler like quadvees and tripods use, should be standard rules.
That, and the simple fact of them being in TacOps in the first place. I was pointing out that official rules that at least partially allow what those posters were wanting do exist, even if they are optional.

>> No.30400397

Yeah. I admittedly didn't fully read your post before replying. I say the tacops page and the first few words of the rule, recognized it, and wrote my post without reading the last sentence. Sorry if I came across as over-aggressive.

Though really the fact that the rules are there, and apparewntly have been for a long time but I've never heard of them being talked about before a few months back, and they only just recently made it into Megamek, is like... damnit, I'm not asking for vehicles to be superior to mechs, or even be as good as them. I just want them to either have their rules change to reflect their cost, which I feel is too high even with the discount they get to BV depending on motive type, or for said BV discount to be increased so that you're not paying as much for them.


>> No.30400592

Part of the mess with vehicle BV is also part of what was discussed earlier, some weapons/ammo types are just a lot more effective against vehicles, and it can really skew things.

I mean, look at what a Gürteltier costs, compared to an Emperor 6A, and that Emperor can quite easily wreck the Gürteltier with it's dual LBX-10s.

Even outside mech vs tank too, look at how much LBX Zhukovs cost, and they can easily disable tanks much more expensive than they are, and this still applies with TacOps vehicle effectiveness rules in play.

>> No.30400664

>I mean, look at what a Gürteltier costs, compared to an Emperor 6A, and that Emperor can quite easily wreck the Gürteltier with it's dual LBX-10s.

That's a reeaaalllly specific case that's clearly been cherrypicked to favor the 'Mech.

I could just as easily point out the BV disparity between LRM boating 'Mechs and vehicles and make the opposite case.

>> No.30400804

Exactly. I mean, I don't really mind with either keeping effectiveness the same but lowering BV, or keeping BV the same but increasing effectiveness to match the cost. I'd prefer the latter, as a tread-head, but at this point I just want them to be better at things other than spamming missiles for indirect fire or for in-universe being 'cheaper' since you know, as time goes on and comstar stops stagnating things, fusion engines probably are far less expensive in 3145 than in 3025. At least let them be good at being TANKS. Maybe they're slow, fine, but please for the love of god let them either survive location destruction OR stop armoring them like they're ~20 tons lighter on average than they actually are. I mean wouldn't the less complicated profiles of vehicles mean you could get more armor per ton than mechs where you have to shape it to legs and arms and shit? (please don't actually answer this and then the thread devolves into math arguing reality vs BT) I'm not asking them to replace mechs, just for them to either be useful or given cheaper BV to reflect their increased fragility.

Oh you mean the LRM boating vehicles which have paper thin armor? You know, MORE paper thin than even normal vees? Like, ~4-5 tons for the SIXTY TON LRM Carrier? Yyyyeah. It is cheaper. Because it dies to like, ~25-30 damage to ANY of its 4 locations. The Yeoman may be derpy but it's FAR less likely to die from 2 gauss hits to the same location than the LRM carrier.

>> No.30400955

Wait, they're in Megamek? Where?

>> No.30401029

Why does this bitch have capacitors? And x-pulse? and stealth? and JJ? You're trying to cram too much into one machine.

>> No.30401107

New thread here >>30401087

>> No.30401240


You're missing the part where the LRM-spamming vehicles can simply ignore heat, whereas the 'Mech cannot.

There's no doubt in my mind that many vehicles are pretty derpy in design, but I think that's more of a design problem than a rules issues.

>> No.30401421

Tell me something my friend - have you ever danced with a battle armor company in a pale IDF rain?

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