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[ERROR] No.30255334 [DELETED]  [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

>they actually thought there wouldn't be a 40k list thread on the front page for more than five minutes


anyway, check my 1500 points before I go buy a forgefiend today then realize I hate it pls

Primary Detachment
Chaos Lord*, the murder sword, burning brand of skalathrax, sigil of corruption, mark of nurgle 170
Huron Blackheart** 160

x15 Chaos Space Marines***, power sword, x2 melta guns, x2 close combat weapons, mark of khorne, icon of wrath 294
x6 Plague Marines, combi-flamer, x2 flamers 164

Forgefiend 175
Forgefiend 175

Allied Detachment
Herald of Slaanesh****, lesser reward, exalted locus of beguilement 85

x15 Daemonettes of Slaanesh 135
x15 Daemonettes of Slaanesh, alluress 140

*Joins Plague Marines.
**Joins Chaos Space Marines
***Boltguns replaced with close combat weapons.
****Joins first Daemonettes of Slaanesh unit.


>> No.30255658

You probably don't want forgefiends. Get havocs, vindicators or preds instead.

Actually you should just rethink your whole army with things like "how do I capture enemy objectives", "how do I deal with this kind of threat and that one"in mind.

>> No.30255678

Gonna post a modified version of my first ever list, in hope of further advice.

Farseer 110 p
-Runes of warding.

Spiritseer 70 p

10 Dire Avengers 160 p
-Exarch with D sword and pisto.* (I assembled the exarch that way ages ago, so I am kind of stuck with him)

10 dire avengers 160 p
-Exarch with power weapon and shimmer shield.*

7 wraith guards 256 p

6 Striking Scoprions 152 p
-Exarch with claw, and crushing blow.

6 Fire Dragons 167 p
-Exarch with fire pike and fast shot*

>Fast Attack
5 Warp Spiders 150 p
-Exarch with twin-linked death spinners, power blades, fast shot and markman's eye.

>Heavy support
Falcon 170 p
-Scatter laser replaces the shuriken cannon, twin linked shuri catapults replaced with shuriken cannon. Also, it has spirit stones and holo fields.

Wraithlord 165 p.
-Ghost glaive, Bright lance and scatter laser.

Total: 1560 points.

*I honestly have no clue of what powers, or even equipment are good for these units. The ones who actually have wargear and that sort of stuff in this list, only have that, because I had already assembled them that way. I have never played the tabletop game itself.

I would appreciate any advice on this list.
I also have bunch of Dark Eldar models that I was suggested to use as allies for this list. 10 kabalites, 10 wytches, an Archon, a raider, a ravager and 6 reavers. Almost all un-assembled, as I have no clue what sort of load outs would work for them.

>> No.30255861

Needs more Baledrakes.

Since your foot-sloggin everything you either need to hug cover or go for a faster list.

Something like this maybe?

Lord: Mace, Bike, MoN, Sigil - 160
Huron - 160

9x CSM: PSword, Flamer, 9x CCW, MoK, - 169
6x Plague Marine: 2x Melta - 148

Fast Attack
BaleDrake - 170
5x Bikers: MoN - 140

Heavy Support
Land Raider - 230

Herald of Slaanesh: 2x Lesser Rewards, Locus of Beguile - 95
10x Daemonettes, alluress - 95
10x Seekers of Slaanesh: Heartseeker - 125

Total - 1492

>> No.30257038

What role are the Forgefiends going to serve?

Long range anti-tank? A lascannon predator would serve you better.

Close-range anti-tank (to slog up with your infantry)? Maulerfiend is the way to go.

Anti-air? You would have to shoot down one flyer (each) to make their points back, and what's worse, you're taking an entire turn to potentially hit something on 6s and then penetrate on a 5+ (assuming av12, which you should when contemplating anti-air), when you could just massage other targets with much easier rolls.

Anti-horde? You could take an entire squad of Chaos Space Marines for that point cost, and the squad will not only have more shots but will also be much more difficult to kill.

Distraction unit? av12 is no where near tough enough to serve as a distraction unit. Even with a 5++ you're probably going to get taken out on turn one.

All-around unit to plug holes in your army? Again, Chaos Space Marines are not only more versatile, but also put out more shots and are much harder to take out.

This is the main problem of the Forgefiend. It's a nice unit on paper, but when you think about how you're going to use it, you realize that it either doesn't do the job very well, or there's a much better option available.

Kitting a squad for close combat without giving them a transport is an absolute waste. You're going to spend at least 1/3 of the game just getting across the board, and that's assuming they even make it across the board.

Same problem with the Plague Marines. They'll never make it close enough to use the flamers, and even if they do, boltguns are plenty powerful enough to take out hordes. This is doubly a problem because your Lord, who is also kitted for close combat, will never get close enough to be effective in a timely manner.

You have a few huge problems in your list:

1) You're geared for close combat, but have no transports to get there.

2) You have no long-range anti-tank.

3) You have no clear anti-air.

>> No.30257087

Do Da Burny Dance!

160 x01 doc grotsnik
090 x01 warboss w/power claw, cybork body

165 x25 ork boys w/nob, big choppa
165 x25 ork boys w/nob, big choppa
150 x25 ork boys
325 x10 nobz w/big choppas, cybork bodies, painboy

080 x02 trukks w/boarding plank
070 x02 trukks

240 x12 burna boys w/cybork body
240 x12 burna boys w/cybork body
180 x12 tankbustas w/2 tankhammers

135 x03 killa kans w/grotzooka

>> No.30257094

Take both sets of runes on the Farseer. Always.

The Wraithguard really need a Wave Serpent. They have an incredibly short range, and need some way to get close enough to open fire.

Same with the Fire Dragons.

You have no air-air.

You only have one source of long-range anti-tank: the Wraithlord. And that's a very juicy target for your opponent's lascannons.

>> No.30257115

grotsniks on the barebones mob, warboss is on the nobz mob, nobs and tankbustas are inna trukk wit da boardin' plank, and the burna burna boys are inna other ones.

>> No.30257143

Flyers are going to be a serious problem for you. A Heldrake could massacre your boyz without having to worry too much about getting shot at.

What's the strength on the grotzookas? Orks is one of the two codices that I don't own, so I'm not sure whether you have anti-tank covered or not.

>> No.30257186


I don't unfortunately have any wave serpents, and I am not very interested in buying more vehicles, as I have no experience in painting them, and they are bloody expensive. The only eldar units I have that aren't in the list are a squad of guardians, 3 warlocks, and another wraithlord, all of whom color schemes I kind of dislike.

Should I give eldar missile launchers to either the falcon or the wraithlord? I understand that they can fire at airborne targets.

>> No.30257272

General advice for anyone trying to design a list:

So you've decided on an army, and maybe even gotten yourself a few models. You've poured over your books, and even tinkered around with a calculator to see how many points all the cool toys in your codex cost. But now you want to design a list.

A good list will take the required elements of your army (1 HQ and 2 Troops) and use them to really define the way you want your army to operate. A poor (or cheese) list will use these requirements as a necessary dumping ground before moving on to something else. The reason this is a poor decision is because it's essentially wasted points. You want to make sure that everything in your army is going to work for you in some way. You want value out of your points. So whenever you take a squad or upgrade, try to figure out how you're going to get value out of it.

Beyond that, there's a simple checklist that every list should cover.

1) Can I secure objectives? Do I have enough troops to cover/contest, and do I have the means to reliably get those troops into position to cover/contest?

2) Can I deal with av14? Regardless of what points you're playing at, whether 500 or 5,000, you should always plan for av14. Even something as simple as a lascannon or two can go a long way in a low-point game if you opponent decides to throw down a land raider or a leman russ.

3) Can I deal with flyers? Again, regardless of points value, you should always have the means to deal with flyers in case your opponent decides to bring one.

4) Can I deal with hordes? If my opponent tries to overwhelm me with bodies, can I inflict enough wounds to avoid getting overwhelmed?

If you can cover all of those points, then you should be well on your way to a solid list.

>> No.30257282

orks don't have anything with skyfire because their codex has not been updated yet.

grotzookas use a 5-5 blast template, but thats not really the way orks deal with armor. Killa cans have a strength of 5 and a power weapon, so they have a pen 10 in melee, and the boarding planks allow one ork to engage the enemy just like a charge attack, so the tankhammers which have a strength of 10 ap 2 are good to go, along with the warboss and his power claw, which is also strength 10 with several attacks each.

the tankbustas all have s 8 ap 3 rocket launchers, even with a bs of 2 you can always expect a few to hit. the burna boys can either use their flamers or can count as having power weapons in the assault phase, but not both. The nobs all have S 6 melee attacks with big choppas, S7 with furious charge.

>> No.30257306

I agree with what >>30257115. On your boyz free up some points so their nob can get a boss pole, you dont want the gits to run from a proper fight do you? Also having your boyz be at 30 keeps them in fearless range for longer.
As it is right now though you got a fun list to play, only problem being airborne armor

>> No.30257366

>I don't unfortunately have any wave serpents, and I am not very interested in buying more vehicles
Fair enough, but not having them is going to be a serious drawback for your army.

>Should I give eldar missile launchers to either the falcon or the wraithlord? I understand that they can fire at airborne targets.
The Falcon can't take a missile launcher, and the Wraithlord can't take flakk missiles, so neither of those options are available to you. Besides, I like the way the Falcon is kitted as is because it's clearly anti-horde, and that serves an important role in your army with Fire Dragons and the Wraithlord to deal with tanks.

Unfortunately, the only way to add some anti-air into your list would be to add a new unit. Either a flyer of your own (which you don't seem keen on doing), or some Dark Reapers (which are sub-par anyway).

I think your best bet would be to take an Aegis with either a quad-gun or lascannon and park one of your dire avenger squads (with the farseer) behind it.

>> No.30257390

>On your boyz free up some points so their nob can get a boss pole, you dont want the gits to run from a proper fight do you? Also having your boyz be at 30 keeps them in fearless range for longer.

where would i shave the points?

>As it is right now though you got a fun list to play, only problem being airborne armor

yeah, i don't know how to deal with that. I really don't like the new rule for airborne units, I suppose the tankbustas might get a few snapshots in.

Can aerial units engage other aerial units without difficulty?

>> No.30257407


Okay, I also play Eldar.

One HQ? Maybe two Farseers they are dirt cheap for what they do. Our HQ section is strong so long as we ain't talking pheonix lords.

Falcon? Er maybe not.
Double up whatever weapons you are taking on your wraithlord Make him a dedicated tank hunter (two lances) obviously always take 2 flamers, or go two scatter lasers or shuriken canon for the shreddy route.

You are missing WAVE SERPENTS. Not only one of the best things in our codex arguable the best dedicated transport in the game (but 140pts with the canon upgrade and holofields). Those Fire dragons need a wave serpent (I assume they are in the falcon?), and or those wraithguard.

You are missing anti-air. Crimson hunter is FINE but fragile, warp spiders really do the trick though you want another squad and maybe more overall. Your Farseer will GUIDE those warp spiders and then they will shoot down a flyer.

I find guardians with a warlock better points-wise for holding down an objective and crouching in ruins for cover saves. Roll the warlocks power, then auto-take shroud since it's arguably the best one anyways.

If you just like Dire Avengers (kiting is funny) take the sword and shimmer shield over the diresword and pistol. Disarming strike is alright if the Exarch needs to challenge a bitch.

Striking Scorps, mah space elf. Inflitrate them into ruins and run them into a tarpit but they work best as FULL units, seriously taking less than full is a huge detriment.

DE are fine allies but straight eldar is great,

>> No.30257410

>orks don't have anything with skyfire because their codex has not been updated yet.
Fair enough. Even without any skyfire, you still have a ton a meat your opponent has to go through. You might be better off just ignoring flyers are going for the table.

Especially since it seems your entire army is all about getting into close combat anyway, which would entirely negate your opponent's flyers.

Sounds like you have plenty of anti-tank and plenty of anti-infantry. And plenty of bodies to make it happen.

Like I said, I don't have the Ork codex, so I'm not an expert by any means, but it seems like a pretty powerful list.

>> No.30257458

Maulerfiends move 12" at a time.

>> No.30257459

yeah, the cybork body combined with the feel no pain on the nobs mob is pretty broken, cybork body gives a 5+ invul save and the dok confers feel no pain on the barebones boyz troop mob.

>> No.30257508

Yeah, you're fine just ignoring flyers. That's a ridiculous number of hoops to jump through for a casualty... and an even more ridiculous number of casualties to grind through for a kill point.

>> No.30257518

I'd add a couple things to that list:

5) Can I deal with a low (2+ or 3+) armor save troop choices?

>> No.30257552


>Like I said, I don't have the Ork codex, so I'm not an expert by any means, but it seems like a pretty powerful list.

thanks mang

>> No.30257573

Good point. Dealing with MEQ* and TEQ** are always important.

*MEQ = Marine Equivalent. S4 T4 3+ Armor.
**TEQ = Terminator Equivalent. S4 T4 2+/5++ Armor.

>> No.30257599

A super gimmicky but surprisingly way to free up points is grots. Just at first glace take out the squad of boys without the nob and the fill up the rest of the troop slots with 10-19 grot units (40-67 points each), put them in front of your boys for mobile cover for advancing or at your board edge to hold objectives. Exactly how to balance that points wise is up to you.
For anti-air you could consider a dakkajet with 6-4 Assault 3 profile, but again dont know where the points will come from or how to deal with 13+armored air

>> No.30257658

Having trouble beating the following Ork list at 1500pts. I know Orks are the oldest book right now but the guy in question has been using a FW Kill Krusha tank as a Lord of War since he Escalation came out and its cheap enough to fit into the points restriction limit. It's not like its a super amazing unit but the fact that it is throwing out Apocalyptic sized templates and is cheap enough he can still have a ton of scoring units my IG are having a hard time of it. He generally Blitzes with the 3 vehicles straight towards where ever the highest concentration of my scoring units with the goal of using the Hellstorm and 7" Blast Ignores Cover fire modes of the Skullhammer cannon on them. All 3 are Fast and usually Obscured. The Kill Krusha being immune to immobilized just ignores terrain and goes straight through buildings if necessary though they prefer to use the 3 in a close enough group to block LoS to advancing foot sloggers and to ensure they all get obscured.

His List

135pts Warboss w/Mega Armour, PK& Shoota, Cybork
85pts Big Mek w/KFF (Rides Kill Krusha)

150pts 10 Lootas (S&P due to Warboss)

100pts Nob+9Boyz w/PK&BP (Rides Kill Krusha)
2x 160pts Nob+19 Shoota Boyz w/PK&BP
40pts MSU Grots (ADL Quadgun)

2x 115pts Battlewagon w/Dedd Rolla & Grot Riggers
340pts Kill Krusha w/4 Rokket Launcha, Grot Gunners

100pts ADL w/Quad Gun

>> No.30257709

Do you have any Valkyries?

>> No.30257715

>yfw I even bother trying to make a decent Tyranids list

The poor Bugs get no love, what with actual competitiveness being out of the question and all, and I figured I'd just have some fun making a list themed around one of my favorite mythical creatures. I call it "Hive Fleet Basilisk."


Hive Flyrant with 2 Twin-Linked Devourers, Hive Commander, and Toxin Sacs: 260 points
Tyranid Prime (hear me out, folks) with Maw-Claws of Thyrax, Toxin Sacs, Deathspitter, and Flesh Hooks: 155 points


30 Termagants with Devourers and Toxin Sacs: 300 points [Outflanking via Hive Commander; Tyranid Prime joins this unit and thus Outflanks with it.]
Tervigon with Regeneration, Miasma Cannon, Toxin Sacs, and Cluster Spines: 265 points [Always takes Dominion. Guess why.]
25 Termagants with Toxin Sacs: 150 points
25 Termagants with Toxin Sacs: 150 points


3 Zoanthropes: 150 points
3 Zoanthropes: 150 points
2 Venomthropes: 90 points

Fast Attack

Hive Crone with Toxin Sacs: 165 points
Hive Crone with Toxin Sacs: 165 points


With this or any other Tyranid army, the first thing you do is bring lots and lots of terrain. Sure, your opponent may have Ignores Cover weapons, but it helps if he needs to bring those.

The Hive Tyrant and Crones fly in formation and attack targets of opportunity until they get shot out of the sky.

Each 25-model Termagant brood pairs up with a Zoanthrope brood, and they travel up the board toward midfield objectives; the Zoeys have to hide as well as they can from enemy fire.

The Tervigon and Venomthropes sit at home as the Synapse rallying point; Mommyfex hides behind a ruin so the Venomthropes can give her a good cover save while she spits out Termagants and fires her Miasma Cannon.

The Prime babysits the huge mob of Devilgaunts that Outflank and bury anything they can find in Devourer fire. If they manage to reach assault, the Prime's Flesh Hooks and Maw-Claws help in that regard.

What do you think?

>> No.30257746

1005 pts. IG noob list

> HQ
CCS - Astropath, Lascannon, Vox Caster

> Troops
Infantry Platoon
- Squad 1 - Commissar, Lascannon, Vox Caster
- Squad 2 - Lascannon
- Squad 3 - Lascannon
Veteran Squad - 3x Meltagun
Veteran Squad - 3x Meltagun

> Fast Attack
Vendetta, 2x Twin-linked Lascannons
Vendetta, 2x Twin-linked Lascannons

> Heavy Support
Manticore, Heavy Flamer

I'm pretty new to the Guard, so any help would be appreciated. My idea was command squads and Platoon sit back and hold backfield objectives, Lascannons hidden behind ablatives, Manticore for support, Vets go with the Vendettas.

>> No.30257763


Thanks for the input.

It seems that I need to get some wave serpents, if lacking them is that big of a drawback. (do you folks have any tips for painting vehicles?)

I should have specified that this list wasn't meant to be any sort of final or permanent list, just one that I could try out in a game, as I have never played the tabletop before. I have only seen like 2 matches in a hobby store, both of them during the last month, despite having collected Eldar, Dark Eldar and Nids for the past 5 year or so.

Basically, the goal of my list is just to allow me to play at least one game, because I kind of want my models to be more than just decorations kept in the attic.

It doesn't matter to me that much if the list isn't hugely competitive, I just generally want it to be playable, so that I can experience a game myself, instead of awkwardly observe one going on in the hobby store.

I got no friends to play with, as none of them are at all interested in 40k.

>> No.30257779


for those talking smack about my forgefiends, I have a few comments although I am thankful for criticism:

1) by mathhammer forgefiends actually outperform predators versus AV12 which is really the only long range AV CSM can deal with. they are also more durable with AV 12 on the side and 5+ invuln and IWND, because it's not hard to hit a predator on the side armor. only problem is forgefiends cost too much. there is no reason to take lascannons if you're trying to pop AV13, it aint gonna happen often, that's what melta is for, which I can infiltrate. so idk, at this point I think I have too many troops and need bigger threats for saturation and better AT

2) CSM transports a shit, I just played a game against triptide on vassal, and while I got raped, I did better than I thought with huron blackheart. he infiltrates the plague marines, and daemonettes are fine footslogging because they're fast but if you get lucky you can infiltrate them too. I took the relic first turn and would have wrecked that dude if it weren't for, you know, fucking three riptides

3) forgefiends are also decent AA according to the numbers, with only havocs on an aegis being comparable. taking some turkeys might also help but this is supposed to be a fast list with no reserves, and I have soured on the concept of reserves in general after previously running 2 drakes. heldrakes are great, but they are not the OP death machines the internet makes them out to be and if they don't come in from reserves immediately you're pretty much fucked

so now I'm thinking 1 horde of daemonettes, 2 hordes of CSM, and sticking huron behind an aegis with some havoc pals, maybe some preds for AT idk. all things considered, I think my list would have done alright if I wasn't facing tau cheese, I am a casual player and this was my first time going up against a tau netlist

will post revamped list here in a few minutes

>> No.30258117


My List:

95pts Lord Commisar w/PF, Carapace

527pts Infantry Platoon
PCS w/Standard, Vox, 2 GL
2x Squads w/Power Axe, Vox, GL
2x Squads w/Power Axe, Vox, Flamer
33 Conscripts

100pts Vets w/3 Melta

130pts Vendetta
138pts 3 Scout Sentinels w/Multilasers, HKM, Search Lights
130pts Hell Hound

230pts Leman Russ Exterminator w/Pask, HB Sponsons, Heavy Stubber
150pts Leman Russ BT

>> No.30258169

1500pt CSM army
230 Ahriman (will be riding with first TS)
277 x9 (8+1) Thousand Sons (Rhino)
300 x10 Thousand Sons (Rhino)
>Fast Attack
250 x10 Raptors (MoK, Icon of W, x2 Melta, x1 combi-melta, melta bombs)
>Heavy Support
140 Predator (Lasc sponsons, twin-lasc turret)
160 Havocs (x4 MLs, Icon of V)
140 x2 Obliterators
1497 points.

What do you think? My first 1500p list, and while i don't know exact enemy setup, i do expect MEQs. Won't be able to bring a heldrake, and the predator is there because i like preds.

>> No.30258263


When you take that many infantry models the price you pay is being unable to hide them. Also what are the Power Axes for? That's a lot of points to be spending on melee weapons for your guardsmen. Also all of those grenade launchers? No wonder you can't deal with Av14, your only anti-AV14 weapons start in reserves. Get some meltaguns for your regular infantry squads, you are also in desperate need on Manticores, barrage isn't an optional part of playing foot slogging guard.

>> No.30258346

CSM without actual chaos marines:

DP, MoN, flight, ML2, black mace: 295

10 Cultists
10 Cultists


2 Oblits, VotLW: 146
2 Oblits, VotLW: 146

DP, MoN, Flight, ML2, 2 greater rolls: 290

10 Plaguebearers
10 Plaguebearers


Warlord DP rolls on Bio, allied DP on Telepathy. Taking a gamble that S8/S10 aren't as common these days apart from Riptides and Wraithknights.

>> No.30258371


>What do you think?

It's fill of obviously beginner mistakes. Thousand Sons are too expensive to take in any list that isn't shaving serious points elsewhere and you also have a super expensive HQ and super expensive Raptor squad. You can have one of those three things at 1500pts. Especially because......

>Won't be able to bring a heldrake

Without a Heldrake you desperately need more of your own troops. Heldrakes are a scoring unit killer, they allow competitive Chaos lists to get away with taking fewer or weaker scoring units of their own because your objective denial is much stronger. Without one I wouldn't go with less than 40-50 scoring wounds at 1500pts. In addition to that another downside to not taking your linchpin unit is you now must over pay for Skyfire elsewhere in your list. You will die to enemy fliers easily, thus requiring you to take even more troops to compensate. No less than 60 scoring wounds if you are going this route.

>> No.30258447


When you can find me some steel legion meltagun infantry I will run out and change all of my special weapons to fit this edition better.

How about some tactical advice on how to deal with it? I've tried spreading my troops out more but that puts a lot of them in the open.

I could swap the regular russ for a manticore, it usually gets rammed to death by the battle wagons anyway though I'm worried with few road blocks it will only let them get to my scoring units faster.

>> No.30258465

Since most games are objective based, you might need some more scoring bodies for 1500. Even bare-bones cultists in reserve to capture a backfield objective late game can help.

Your Heavy Support slot is a bit cluttered, drop either the Havocs or the Obliterators to spend the extra points on the other. MoN is great on either and practically auto-take for Oblits.

>> No.30258555


No tactical advice will make up for "My T3 blobs are vulnerable to Apocalyptic Templates" and "I don't have enough anti-Av14 to deal with 17 HP worth of Front AV14 on the first & 2nd turn.

If you ditch the Lord Commissar and get a CCS w/Astropath it will help get your veterans in sooner. If you save points by also getting rid of the conscripts it will leave more table space so you wont be bunched up forever and get rid of the sentinels you can bring in another Vendetta.

>> No.30258577



>> No.30258613

You need transports and more long range anti armour.

>> No.30258621


I'm not going to go out and buy enough new models that is constitutes a fundamental change to my army just to deal with 1 opponent. Other than him I rarely ever run into Av 14.

>> No.30258626

Since 1,500 points looks like the theme for this thread, I'll give my list a go.

Codex: Inquisition - 1,499 Points

Ordo Xenos Inquisitor - 131 Points
- Psyker Mastery Level 1 (Divination)
- Force Sword and Conversation Beamer
- Power Armor
- One Servo-Skull
- The Tome of Vethric

Inquisitorial Henchmen Warband (12 Henchmen) - 221 Points
- 2 Crusaders
- 10 Acolytes with Hot-shot Lasguns and Carapace Armor
- Chimera with Two Heavy Bolters, Psybolt Ammo, and Searchlights

Inquisitorial Henchmen Warband (12 Henchmen) - 221 Points
- 2 Crusaders
- 10 Acolytes with Hot-shot Lasguns and Carapace Armor
- Chimera with Two Heavy Bolters, Psybolt Ammo, and Searchlights

Inquisitorial Henchmen Warband (12 Henchmen) - 416 Points
- 2 Crusaders
- 10 Acolytes with Hot-shot Lasguns and Carapace Armor
- Land Raider with Psybolt Ammo and Searchlights

Aegis Defense Line - 85 Points
- Icarus Lascannon

Allied Detachment - Codex: Inquisition

Ordo Malleus Inquisitor - 93 Points
- Psyker Master Level 1 (Divination)
- Daemonblade and Hellrifle
- Power Armor

Inquisitorial Henchmen Warband (9 Henchmen) - 180 Points
- 1 Crusader
- 8 Acolytes with Hot-shot Lasguns and Carapace Armor
- Chimera with Two Heavy Bolters, Psybolt Ammo, and Searchlights

Inquisitorial Henchmen Warband (7 Henchmen) - 152 Points
- 7 Acolytes with Hot-shot Lasguns and Carapace Armor
- Chimera with Two Heavy Bolters, Psybolt Ammo, and Searchlights

Xenos Inquisitor goes with the Land Raider Warband and hangs out behind the Aegis.

Malleus Inquisitor goes with the 9-man Allied Warband and rides around taking shots with his Hellrifle.

>> No.30258688


You are going to need to spend no less than $150 to fix that list for 6th edition. If you have a problem with that for either money or modelling reasons (I noticed you don't want to mix Cadian and SL infantry) then you just need to accept you will be seriously weak against templates & high armour.

>> No.30259655

Greetings /tg/
I'm relatively new to Nids, been slowly building an army, and I'd like some advice on what I should be looking for in order to strengthen my army. I don't have a coherent list yet, but I've got:

Flyrant with Twin linked Devourers.
1 hive guard
10 Genestealers
20 Hormagaunts
20 Termagaunts
10 gargoyles
6 warriors
2 Zoanthopes
1 Lictor

I'd like to get some Carnifexes now that the new codex has made them viable again, or should I hang onto the Trygon as my heavy support?

>> No.30259890

Iron Dakka
1500 point Iron Hands Space Marine list

HQ 090
145 x01 Librarian w/terminator armor, Thunder Hammer, Storm Sheild, Mastery Level 2

160 x10 Tactical Squad w/Heavy Bolter, Melta
160 x10 Tactical Squad w/Heavy Bolter, Melta
170 x10 Tactical Squad w/Missile Launcher, Flakk Missiles, Flamer
170 x10 Tactical Squad w/Missile Launcher, Flakk Missiles, Flamer

Trans 140
140 x04 Rhinos

225 x05 Terminator Assault Squad w/Thunder Hammers & Storm Shields

Heavy 330
130 x02 Whirlwind Tanks
200 x01 Stormraven Gunship w/Plasma Cannon, Multi-Melta

>> No.30260079

crap. corrections...

Iron Dakka
1500 point Iron Hands Space Marine list

HQ 145
145 x01 Librarian w/terminator armor, Thunder Hammer, Storm Sheild, Mastery Level 2

Troop 660
165 x10 Tactical Squad w/Heavy Bolter, Melta, Melta-Bombs
165 x10 Tactical Squad w/Heavy Bolter, Melta, Melta-Bombs
175 x10 Tactical Squad w/Missile Launcher, Flakk Missiles, Flamer, Melta-Bombs
175 x10 Tactical Squad w/Missile Launcher, Flakk Missiles, Flamer, Melta-Bombs

Trans 140
140 x04 Rhinos

Elite 225
225 x05 Terminator Assault Squad w/Thunder Hammers & Storm Shields

Heavy 330
130 x02 Whirlwind Tanks
200 x01 Stormraven Gunship w/Plasma Cannon, Multi-Melta

>> No.30260410


I'm a bit new to guard myself, but here's my take. I don't see the commissar as a worthwhile choice for a platoon command squad, especially if they're laying back with a lascannon. If you're worried about failing morale rolls (you are), put the commissar in a larger squad or take a platoon standard instead. Secondly, you have a lot of lascannons with your infantry on top of your melta vets and TL Lascannons on the vendettas. It's a lot of tank killing equipment for a 1000 point game, your opponent can only field so many vehicles in their 1000 point army. Autocannons may be more helpful against infantry while giving you extra points to buy flamers and voxcasters for your infantry squads.

If I remember the voxcaster rule correctly, both the officer's squad and the squad the order is being issued to needs to have a voxcaster. Unless your plan was to bounce orders back and forth between your CCS and PCS (I don't see why you would), you should have voxcasters in your regular infantry squads or drop voxcasters altogether.

>> No.30260452


Librarians can't take Thunder Hammers, not even as Terminators
Heavy Bolters suck dicks, and heavy weapons on Tacs suck unless you're going full gun-line - which you're not because Rhinos. If you want to run Rhinos so you can drive up on objectives, ditch heavy weapons and take a combi-weapon matching your special weapon instead so you can burn/tank-hunt/grav from inside the metal boxes. Also melta bombs on Tacs is a waste

If you shave some points here and there, you should be able to get a second TFC or an ADL and quad gun with the savings

>> No.30260505

Hey guys just a quick question i want to make like a small maybe 1k points SW army but use bears instead of wolves (or make them white scars and use them as bikes not chosen yet) anybody know were i can get some bear models that ship to the UK thanks

>> No.30260655

What sort of gear is good for a Dark Eldar Archon? Is the husk blade/soul trap combo worth while?

>> No.30260720

Anyway, I'm a guard player, a bit new, and one of my friends who I play against has Grey Knights. So far I've played three games against them and lost every time, thought narrowly. I'm looking to get a bit of an edge and have some fun at the same time, and for some reason only heard of the new Codex: Inquisition recently. It has me interested. Specifically the part about these inquisitor allies counting as Battle Brothers. Does this mean I can take an Ordo Hereticus inquisitor with servo skulls and a psyocculum, have him join my CCS (armed with plasma guns), and send them off in a chimera to hunt Knights in shining armor?

>> No.30260914

You are aware the Vendetta comes with 3 Twin-linked Lascannons, right?

>> No.30260987

You certainly could.

>> No.30260989

>Does this mean I can take an Ordo Hereticus inquisitor with servo skulls and a psyocculum, have him join my CCS (armed with plasma guns), and send them off in a chimera to hunt Knights in shining armor?
Yes. That's exactly what it means.

>> No.30261012

Except allied units can't share the same transports if I recall correctly.

>> No.30261108

Iron Dakka
1500 point Iron Hands Space Marine list

070 x01 Librarian, Storm Bolter

Troop 790
150 x10 Tactical Squad w/Heavy Bolter, Melta-Bombs
150 x10 Tactical Squad w/Heavy Bolter, Melta-Bombs
150 x10 Tactical Squad w/Heavy Bolter, Melta-Bombs
170 x10 Tactical Squad w/Missile Launcher, Flakk Missiles, Flamer
170 x10 Tactical Squad w/Missile Launcher, Flakk Missiles, Flamer

Trans 070
070 x02 Rhinos

Elite 225
225 x05 Terminator Assault Squad w/Thunder Hammers & Storm Shields

Heavy 330
130 x02 Whirlwind Tanks
200 x01 Stormraven Gunship w/Plasma Cannon, Multi-Melta

>> No.30261118

Fuck I think you're right. I'll have to roll without the chimera.

Does the Master of Ordnance still apply his ballistic skill to the scatter on his large blast attack?

>> No.30261161

And if the allies rule restriction carries in this case, that's a shame, because both the IG codex and the Inquisition codex have chimeras.

>> No.30261210

3 man Henchman squad with plasma guns?

>> No.30261235

HQ - Battle suit Commander
- Drone Controller
- 2 Marker Drones
- Positional Relay
- Stimulant Injector
- Flamer
- Iridium Armour
- Neuroweb Jammer
- Command and Control Node
- Multi-spectrom Sensor Suite

pts 204

Troop 1 - Fire Warrior team
- 12 Fire Warriors
- Shas'ui upgrade

- Devil Fish Transport
- 2 Seeker Missiles
- Decoy Launchers
- Disruption Pods

pts 232

Troop 1 - Fire Warrior team
- 12 Fire Warriors
- Shas'ui upgrade

- Devil Fish Transport
- 2 Seeker Missiles
- Decoy Launchers
- Disruption Pods

pts 232

Elite 1 - Stealth Suit Team
- Shas'vre upgrade
- Marker Light & Target lock
- Fusion Blaster
- 2 Marker Drones
- Drone Controller
- Homing Beacon
- Bonding Knife

2 Stealth Shas'ui
- Stimulant Injector

pts 182

Elite 2 - XV8 Crisis Team
1st XV8
-Shas'vre upgrade
- Burst Cannon
- Flamer
2nd XV8
- Burst Cannon
- Flamer

pts 84

Elite - XV8 Crisis Team
1st XV8
-Shas'vre upgrade
- Fusion Blaster
- Plasma Rifle
- Shield Drone
2nd XV8
- Plasma Rifle
- Missle Pod
- Shield Drone
3rd XV8
- Fusion Blaster
- Missle Pod
- Shield Drone

pts 202

Fast Attack 1 - Piranha
- 2 Seeker Missiles
- Flechette Discharger
- Disruption Pod

pts 81

Fast Attack 2 - Drone Squadron
- 4 Marker Drones
- 1 Shield Drone

pts 70

Total = 1287

All the models I have minus 1 devil fish. I dont know if I should try beef it upto 1500pts or shave it down to 1250pts.

>> No.30261264

1250 lists aren't that common to my knowledge, it usually goes 1000,1500,1850,2000 point games

>> No.30261309

Thanks for the advice! My original idea was to run them as a 30-strong blob with 3 Lascannons, hence the vox caster on one of the squads, but keeping them as separate Autocannon squads is probably better along with all the extras that will free up.

Yeah, must've been a typo I copy-pasted.

>> No.30261317

Yeah I suppose I have the models to accomplish that. And I could overcome the not so hot BS3 the henchmen have otherwise.

Surprised that didn't occur to me.

>> No.30261876

Psyocculom makes the unit BS10 so long as you're shooting at Daemons right?

>> No.30262104

Chaos Dakka
2000 point stupidly simple Chaos Marine list

HQ 068
068 x01 Chaos Champion, combibolter

Troops 1160
290 x20 Chaos Space Marines w/2 meltas
290 x20 Chaos Space Marines w/2 meltas
290 x20 Chaos Space Marines w/2 meltas
290 x20 Chaos Space Marines w/2 meltas

Fast Attack 390
110 x05 Raptors w/2 Flamers, Melta-Bombs
110 x05 Raptors w/2 Flamers, Melta-Bombs
170 x01 Heldrake

Heavy 381
381 x03 Predators w/2 Lascannons, havoc launcher

>> No.30262120

Psykers, but yes

>> No.30262664

Just starting 40k and want to know what army to start. Which of these would be considered cheap to bring to a 500pt game, and later after a few months, a 750pt game?

Flying Hive Tyrant
Land Raider Crusader/Redeemer
Trygon Prime

So basically thinking about starting Chaos, Dark angels, or Tyranids.

>> No.30262665

500 Point List

100 x01 Librarian w/terminator armor, combi-melta

090 x05 Tac Squad w/Plasma Cannon
090 x05 Tac Squad w/Plasma Cannon

110 x02 Razorbacks w/tl heavy flamers

110 x01 Dreadnaught w/Plasma Cannon

>> No.30262784

Which is almost everybody in a Grey Knight army if I remember correctly.

>> No.30262788

You dont have enaugh enti tank guns in your list.
Plus taking hot shot guns in every squad is a bit useless because you won't be fighting marines all day error day. Concider taking a coupled of melta/ plasma weapons plus the monkey to spice things up.

>> No.30262854

Oh, I totally misread that. It looked to me that the commissar was in the PCS but if he's in a regular infantry squad with combined squads that's where he should be. Maybe toss a voxcaster in the PCS but otherwise you're fine.

>> No.30263210

It doesn't matter in low point lists, but for higher point lists you should get into the habit of grouping the dedicated transports with the squads they're attached to so it's obvious which squad has which transport.

Your list is alright, but you should consider dropping the Librarian's Termie armour in favour of getting a Drop Pod for the Dreadnought. That way the Librarian can hitch a ride in a Razorback and the Dreadnought can deploy right near the enemy's lines if you have to go on the offensive.

Plasma cannons aren't a good weapon for a unit in a transport. Due to being blast, they will be unable to shoot on the turn they disembark. Since you have to start the game in the Razorback, you're forfeiting one turn of firing already.

Which chapter tactics are you using?

>> No.30263272

Even some of the vehicles are Psykers.

>> No.30263781

All Grey Knights and Grey Knight vehicles are psykers. A Psyocculom is absolutely devastating against a Grey Knights army unless they're loading up on Henchmen.

Everything but the Chimera counts as being a psyker.

>> No.30263812

>chaos champion, combi bolter

you mean chaos lord? a lord without any upgrades is shit, if you're going to go naked just take a sorcerer so he can buff a unit or something. combi-bolters are a waste of 3 points on infantry

>2 lascannons, havoc launcher

ditch the havoc, they are never good on preds. they'd only fit dakkapreds, and dakkapreds suck

I feel like all that footslogging MEQ would die to mass fire, but meh, haven't really seen a list like this at 2000 points, it is slow as balls and that is bad for CSM

>> No.30263888

I'd drop the terminator armor on the librarian so he can ride along with one of the tactical squads. Otherwise he's slogging all by himself, which makes for an incredibly vulnerable target.

Unless you plan on deep striking him in alone, in which case he's an unbelievably vulnerable target and an easy first blood, kill point, and warlord kill for your opponent. Not to mention 1/5 of your army taken out.

I'd drop the flamers for assault cannons. With the plasma cannons you're probably not going to get close enough to use the flamers anyway.

Dreadnoughts are generally not worth it. They're incredibly vulnerable, and die way too easily to be worth the point cost.

I would consider dropping the plasma cannons for either meltaguns (if you want to get your tacticals into close combat range) or either missile launchers or lascannons (if you want them to hang back and shoot).

As it stands, you only have 1 weapon that can harm av14 (the combi-melta), and absolutely nothing that can handle air.

>> No.30263900

OP here, how ya like me now:

1500 CSM/daemons

Primary Detachment
Huron Blackheart 160

x15 Chaos Space Marines, power sword, x2 melta guns, x2 CCW, MoK, IoW 294
x10 Chaos Cultists 50

Helbrute 100

Chaos Predator, lascannon sponsons 115
Forgefiend 175
Forgefiend 175

Aegis Defense Line, quad gun 100

Allied Detachment
Herald of Slaanesh, lesser reward 55

x15 Daemonettes of Slaanesh 135
x15 Daemonettes of Slaanesh, alluress 140


>> No.30263907

>unless they're loading up on Henchmen.
>implying there are Grey Knights players who don't want to win

>> No.30263930

1) I prefer to list transports separately, its pretty easy to infer 12 troops with no S10 melee goes on a trukk without a boarding plank
2) I plan on running everything separately, with the razorbacks engaging enemy squads in close combat while the tac squads entrench themselves behind cover and use the 36" range on the cannons to engage at a distance.
3) The psyker can stand on its on own with multiple wounds and termi armor, it forces the enemy to target it seperately.

>> No.30263965

Heldrake would probably be the cheapest to be honest. The Flyrant and Trygon prime are pretty much mainstays for Nids armies at the moment I think. I don't know much about the Dark Angels one, so I'm afraid I can't help you.

>> No.30263982

>3) The psyker can stand on its on own with multiple wounds and termi armor, it forces the enemy to target it seperately.

It's funny that you think that, but in reality you're just handing the enemy a free Slay the Warlord point, and very possibly a free First Blood as well.

Don't overestimate terminator armor. 2+/5++ is not that hot.

>> No.30264044

I disagree about the Havocs, at 12 points with a 5-5 template and BS 4, I put that shit on everything. and with 4 points left, there was nothing else i could spend it on except a combi bolter. (If you look closely you'll see its a 1999 point list)

The sorceror is a better choice though, you are right. The moe blobs put out a lot of dakka and are nigh indestructable, and with the meltas, vehicles will have a hard time avoiding them.

>> No.30264088

>Flakk missiles
Never, ever even once.

>> No.30264116

apparantely you never knew the frustration of playing old Tau. 100+ shots, not one fukkin' casualty...

>> No.30264143

Anecdotal evidence that defies statistics. Into the trash it goes.

>> No.30264153

You aren't going to be fighting space marines all the time. 5-6 hits on a tac squad with a strength 5 template still might cause a casualty or 2.

>> No.30264201

that was pretty routine, actually.

consider the standard bolter against a termi

2/3*1/2*1/6 = 1/18

>> No.30264226

well my main issue with the combi-bolter is that it's pretty much a non-event, so you're going to have to go through the trouble of magnetizing your HQ just to give it a shitty piece of wargear that you'll drop once you need those 3 points after switching your list around

the only thing havoc launchers can (barely) hurt are hordes, and why the hell would you be shooting AT weapons at a horde? you should be shooting at armor/MCs and havoc launchers do nothing to them

ditching the lord with the combi-bolter gives you 68 points for an HQ, then get rid of the havoc launcher and melta bombs for another 22 for a total of 90 points. now you have a mastery level 2 sorcerer with sigil of corruption, a respectable sorcerer who won't die if you look at him wrong and can possibly instant death enemies in challenges with his force sword while shitting psychic powers on motherfuckers/buffing your units

>> No.30264246

Both good points. I'll play around with the calculator and see if I can add in some Plasma Guns. Unfortunately, the only melta option would be a Combi-Melta, which is a waste on a BS 3 Acolyte.

The only thing I'm hung up on is the fact that an extra point of strength doesn't seem all that important. With 5 Chimeras, I can pump out 30 s6 ap4 shots every turn with a 36" range. And being as mobile as they are, I can get the Chimeras around to hit the side armor of things like Leman Russ tanks. Against Land Raiders, I have a Land Raider of my own with 2 twin-linked Lascannons, as well as the Icarus to pop tanks when it's not shooting at flyers.

On the other hand, some Plasma Guns might be nice. It gives me a way to deal with 2+ saves, something that is definitely a weakness in my list.

But I do like the abundance of Hot-shot Lasguns. It might be overkill when I'm not against Marines, but when I am, it's absolutely brutal against MEQ.

>> No.30264262

Meaning it takes all of 18 bolter shots, on average, to down a termie.

18 is far less than 100 so...

>> No.30264269

>implying that they would still be playing Grey Knights if they wanted to win

>> No.30264283

>Flakk missile
>Not frag missile
Flakk is S7 AP4 skyfire.
Normal missile launchers I'm ok with.
And frag missiles are S4.

>> No.30264300

>1) I prefer to list transports separately
At 500 points, and with 2 Tac squads we can pretty easily know what's what. At 2000 points, with 2 Dev Squads, 4 Tac Squads, a Sternguard Squad or 2, etc, it can become difficult to know who has which transport.

>I plan on running everything separately
You know how the main characters in every horror movie come up with the marvellous idea to split up (and consequently get picked off one by one), while every yells at the screen "No, you retards!"?

You're planning the wargame equivalent of that.

>The psyker can stand on its on own
How about some maths?

180 points of Guardsmen (no upgrades) = dead Librarian.

216 points of Shoota Boyz (no upgrades) = dead Librarian.

162 points of Eldar Guardians (no upgrades, not account for Bladestorm) = dead Librarian.

162 points of Fire Warriors = dead Librarian.

Sure, they'll need more than your point cost to bring you down in one turn, but it's an easy Slay The Warlord.

>> No.30264398

you seriously wouldn't let someone fudge a 3 point combi-bolter? thats just lawful evil, bro.

your right about the predators, i was thinking you could target them separately or something.

>> No.30264420

I would let them fudge a combi-bolter but most of the time you'd probably both just forget about it being there, kek

>> No.30264434

thats not really what it means. in fact, thats a good way to flunk statistics.

each shot has an 1/18 shot of hitting, that doesn't mean 18 shots have 100% chance of hitting. Its actually an incredibly bad rule of thumb, especially for miniscule percentages.

>> No.30264465

yeah, but havocs are 5-5 twinlinked, not 4-6 blast templates. But your right, they suck on a predator. I'm just used to seeing them on chaos rhinos.

>> No.30264470

Not when you're firing them at BS 1 because Flakk Missiles don't have Interceptor.

>> No.30264495

Nid List:
1x Flyrant with twin linked devourers-235pts
15xGenestealers-210 points
20x Hormagaunts wi/ adrenal glands-140 pts
30x Termagaunts wi/ fleshborers-120pts
2x Zoanthopes-100pts
10xGargoyles wi/adrenal glands-70pts
TOTAL: 1001 pts

I'm also looking to what I can do to make a better army for a 1500pt game. Advice? My plan is to have the gargoyles shield the flyrant, and use the gene stealers and Mawloc to smash up within the enemy and wreak havoc. I do feel that my list is threadbare though. Any advice would be appreciated.

>> No.30264513

If you fire 18 bolter shots at a terminator, on average you'll generate 1 casualty.

Sometimes you don't get any. Sometimes you'll get a bunch and laugh as your opponent removes his whole squad. But on average you'll get 1.

>> No.30264543

All of them. Unfortunately for you, all of them are also easily countered for relatively cheap point costs.

>> No.30264546

that hey, this might be a very good idea
but i would put hormagaunts insted of termagants, because you get another attack and run better, while those 25 shots don't do very much in the end
you may have for the first time given a reason to exist to the prime
too bad those 30 gants will die in 1-2 turns

>> No.30264580

you can usually tell by their loadout. you generally wouldn't put a heavy weapons squad in a transport, because they have to be stationary to fire. You wouldn't put a 10 man squad in a razorback. (normally) You wouldn't put 12 units in a squad if you weren't using a trukk.

Besides, you can usually take transports as troop choices if you have enough troop choices left. The reason I list them separately is because they have their own upgrades and it takes up less space.

Likewise, i don't attach sgt upgrades to sgts because nobody else can take melta bombs, for instance.

>> No.30264614

So if I drop 1 Crusader from each Warband, I can upgrade 3 Acolytes from Hot-shots to Plasma Guns.

Well worth the trade, I think. Not only does it give me more higher-strength fire power, but it also gives me an easy way to counter 2+ armor. Combined with the Hot-shots on the rest of my Acolytes, and armor will be powerless before the Inquisition.

Thanks for the advice, anon!

>> No.30264638

So one more question regarding the prospects of BS10 plasma guns. Will a roll of a one on the first shot count as "getting hot" or can you reroll that one and only suffer the "gets hot" if the second roll is also a one?

>> No.30264650


Don't worry about what's cheap in 500 point games. Figure out your 1500-1850 point army and buy it in pieces.

>> No.30264663

guardsmen and shoota boys have to get within and 18". the plasma cannon can fire at 36" with plenty of time to get behind cover, with two squads it can create a crossfire center field, and any swarms would likely be more worried about the twin linked flamers coming from the razorbacks or the twin 7-2 templates who are firing behind cover to care about a lone librarian.

>> No.30264676

Gets Hot only applies if the final roll is a 1, so you're safe unless your reroll also comes up as a 1.

>> No.30264769

oh, i thought you were talking about the havocs. People just bitch about not having any anti air all the time, so i put a couple flakk missiles on it. Is there something I should know about?

>> No.30264964

You only suffer Gets Hot if the final result is a 1. If you roll a 1 on the first result, but then reroll it, the rule does not result in a wound.

>> No.30265028

Except that won't work out nearly as well as you might expect.

Combat squads have pitiful damage outputs (Tacs have one of the lowest damage vs point ratios in the game), meaning that even with a Plasma Cannon, not a single enemy is going to be afraid of marching into your guns.

As for your Razorbacks, the TL flamers mean that they have to close to 8 inches to be able to touch the minis at their absolute front lines. That means they can be countercharged with grenades, even on snake eyes, the next turn. Alternatively, you have 110 points sitting about behind your lines, doing nothing.

The Librarian is a free VP just sitting about, and it's a fifth of your army's price for the privilege of a unit with no synergy with the rest of your army.

The Dread is decent, as it's your only response to AV14 (unless you count a single meltagun shot) but it will die to any sort of anti-tank weapons in a couple of shots.

>> No.30265168

Flakk Missiles are a horrible choice for anti-air, and for a few reasons.

1) They're overpriced. You're paying 10 additional points for a weapon that can only fire at flyers. Missile Launchers are good, but they're not 25-points-good. For that cost, you can take Lascannons and still end up saving points.

2) In my opinion, they're not particular good for anti-air. Flakk Missiles are only strength 7, which is rather weak against av12 flyers (which is what you should be planning for). You're GLANCING on a 5, which means even if you DO hit, chances are you're not actually going to cause any damage. I know a lot of people swear by the Quad-Gun, but for me, personally, strength 7 isn't enough to deal with flyers. This is more a personal taste than anything, because if you're firing 4 Flakk Missiles a turn, then you have a fair chance of bringing down a flyer.

3) This is the big one: no Interceptor. When it comes to anti-air, you REALLY want something that has both Skyfire and Interceptor on it. Without Interceptor, a Heldrake can come on, Baleflame your entire squad, wipe them out, and leave you without any anti-air. If you have Interceptor, you get to shoot at the flyer as soon as it comes on the table, and potentially wreck it before it ever gets a chance to do anything.

Put all these together and Flakk Missiles give you an overpriced, underwhelming, and potentially useless anti-air option.

>> No.30265229

Also, I went back and looked at your list again. Flakk Missiles are ESPECIALLY useless in Tactical Squads, because you're going to end up wasting an entire squad of shooting just so you can fire ONE weapon at a flyer (which could still miss, and even if it hits, it probably won't even glance).

You can potentially make an argument for Flakk in a squad of Devastators, but never take them in Tacticals.

You're better off taking a Stalker or a Hunter. Or even an Aegis with either a Quad-Gun or Icarus (depending on whether you want more anti-tank or anti-horde).

>> No.30265301

How are the gargoyles shielding the flyrant?

>> No.30265347

Flakk missiles suck because 6E increased missile launcher prices, and you still have to pay 10 points for flakk and it lowers your S from 1 compared to krak.

If Flakk were free, or MLs were cheaper so you only pay the flakk upgrade, and flakk were S8, it'd at least be okay.

>> No.30265421

They'd be able to dart across the board and act as a bullet shield while the flyrant moves, so he's not sitting in the open. The idea is that the gargoyles would "escort" the flyrant and absorb the 6's that would otherwise hit the flyrantt using Look Out Sir! Or is this a stupid idea? The flyrant on his own is good, but I worry about his staying power. If he goes down, my army will inevitably start to fold. What do you think of the rest of the list?

>> No.30265516

you win through attrition, not confrontation. anyone who wants a peice of your tac squads is going to have to charge through cover, and you will have plenty of time to pick off infantry from a distance before they close.

Everything in a 500 point game is disposable. Chances are the razorbacks will be able to fire twice before getting popped, and even when they do, big deal, its 55 points.

They are there to do interference while the plasma cannons do their job. If they jam, you lose, thats the risk you take with this list.

>> No.30265542

That doesn't work. Look Out Sir only functions with characters in units, and Hive Tyrants can't join units.

>> No.30265555

you're not gunna 1 hit a 20 point moe blob.

>> No.30265573

>and you will have plenty of time to pick off infantry from a distance before they close.

Right, no. Tac squads don't win shootouts, they're mediocre placeholder units for when you aren't running camo scouts or bikes, but they aren't going to be winning any shootouts.

>> No.30265630

come at me bro!

>> No.30265637

No Space Marine list has ever won through attrition. Taking cover is a basic level strategy that every other army will be using.

Nothing in a 500 point game is disposable. If the Razorbacks die, then good work losing more than 20% of your points.

Take it from someone who's been playing Space Marines a lot longer than you have, your tacticool strats confer little to no advantage and your battle plan has very little semblance of synergy.

>> No.30265674

Look, if its crunchy, the plasma will take care of it. If its squishy, the razorbacks will handle it.

>> No.30265760

Dude, what?

The ONLY way space marines win is through attrition. There crunch allows a couple of 10 man squads to survive till turn 4 or 5, they are there to get shot at, not to shoot back. Thats what the armor and heavy weapons are for.

Attrition means you grind them down over time, you don't swoop in for a turn 1 victory.

>> No.30265770

You are with a s6 ap3 template.

That's why Heldrakes are so powerful. They can wipe out entire squads of MEQ in one turn.

>> No.30265815

I challenge you to fit 20 models underneath a flamer template.

>> No.30265854

thought you were talkin' chaos, nm

>> No.30265880

I don't like meltabombs/flakk/heavy bolters, you should never use them and if you do your a retard.

>> No.30265945

its not about what you like bro, its about what i like. its my list, my preferences, and its for me to find out what works and what doesn't.

If you have a suggestion, thats fine, but put it within my frame of reference. I don't like x/y/z because in conditional situation a/b/c this sometimes happens (explain anecdote) is not a real argument.

>> No.30266007



>heavy bolters
Usually agreed, except when Psybolt Ammo is an option.

>> No.30266084

If you have Psybolt ammo you're far better off with asscannons or autocannons.

20 points will turn a HB into an asscannon with less shot and no rending, but it's turn an asscannon or an autocannon into a vehicle shredding monstrosity.

>> No.30266095

Here's the problem with each of them:

First off, drop the melta bombs. You're never going to use them. If you're taking Heavy Bolters, that means your squads are going to be camping somewhere and shooting at things. Which means they won't be charging anything, let alone charge at tanks. And if you're not in close combat with tanks, then the melta bombs are useless. So based on how you're gearing your squad, melta bombs are useless.

Flakk Missiles have been talked about here: >>30265168.

Heavy Bolters seem redundant. They're a good anti-horde, but really, your boltguns are good enough anti-horde already. Instead of spending points to make your squad better, you're spending points on being able to do something that your squad can already do anyway.

>> No.30266130

>asscannons or autocannons
If those are options, yes.

But those are options I don't have available in my codex.

But what I CAN do is take Chimeras with 2 Heavy Bolters and Psybolt Ammo. That's a damn good deal, imo.

>> No.30266171

Oh, an Inq player.

I dunno if psybolts are worth it on Chimeras though, since the name of the henchmen game is to keep it cheap. It could be fantastic on a Crusader with a multi-melta though.

>> No.30266242

>an Inq player
The few and the proud.

>the name of the henchmen game is to keep it cheap
If you're building a Grey Knights list out of Henchmen, then yes. Codex: Inquisition limits you to a maximum of 3 warbands per division, so you're actually better off investing a little more in your squads. For example, I take carapace armor and weapon upgrades for all my Acolytes, and I still have enough warbands to max out my primary detachment and allied detachment (which is also Codex: Inquisition).

>> No.30266381

1500 point list


Librarian, Mastery 2, Telepathy, Force Maul, Bolt Pistol, Meltabombs: 95(Warlord)

Command Squad w/ Apothecary, 3 Flamer/Bolter veterans, one Meltagun: 140

Razorback w/ Twin Linked Lascannon: 75

HQ: 290


10 man Tactical Squad w/ Veteran Sergeant, Combi-Plasma, Plasma Gun: 175

10 man Tactical Squad w/ Veteran Sergeant, Combi-Plasma, Plasma Gun: 175

Troops: 350

Heavy Support:

10 man Devastator Squad w/ four Plasma Cannons, Sergeant w/ Combi-Plas: 200

Heavy Support: 200

Subtotal: 840

Inquisitorial Detachment

Ordo Hereticus Inquisitor w/ Power Armor, Inferno Pistol, Force Sword, Psychic Mastery 1(Divination): 73

Ordo Xenos Inquisitor w/ Power Armor, Plasma Pistol, Force Sword, Rad Grenades, Psychic Mastery 1(Divination): 88

Inquisitorial Detachment: 161

Allied Detachment: Imperial Knight Errant: 370 Points

Fortification: Imperial Bastion w/ Quad Gun: 125 points

Total: 1496

One Inquisitor sticks with the Devastators, giving them rerolls on Gets Hot and scatter. The other stick with whichever tactical squad is in the bastion, to give rerolls on that anti-air fire.

The Knight Errant is there to handle Riptides, Swarmlords, Daemon Princes, and the like.

>> No.30266476

So will the Gargoyles be useful at all, or should I scrap them for some more Gaunts or warriors?

>> No.30266994

I really should stop thinking so narrowly about beating that friend of mine with Grey Knights, but...

Why the fuck was I considering attaching an Ordo Hereticus inquisitor with a psyocculum to a 3 man warband armed with plasma guns just to put them in a chimera...

When I could forsake the chimera and instead attach him to a combined 30 man guardblob squad WITH plasma guns.

And then issue "First Rank, Fire! Second Rank, Fire!"

>> No.30267035

Going to be fighting a lot of nids now with the new codex out. It's me vs 3 nid armies.

Chapter Tactics: Ultramarines

Inquisitor - Warlord(burnerofworlds)/Boltpistol/Chainsword - (added to acolytes)
x6 Acolytes w/boltguns + Rhino - 98pts
Chapter Master - Relicblade/ArtificerArmor/Stormshield - 190pts

Sternguard x5 - Sgt.w/Lightningclaw/Combiflamer + Razorback w/TLLascannon -
Sternguard x5 - Sgt.w/Lightningclaw/Combiflamer + Razorback w/TLLascannon
Legion of the Damned x5 - Sgt.w/Powermaul/Stormbolter squad/Plasmagun/Lascannon - 180pts

Scout squad x5 w/Sniperrifles/boltpistols
Tactical squad x10 - Sgt.w/Lightningclaw/boltgun squad/flamer/plasmacannon + rhino
Tactical squad x10 - Sgt.w/Lightningclaw/boltgun squad/flamer/plasmacannon + rhino

Stormtalon w/skyhammermissilelauncher
Stormtalon w/skyhammermissilelauncher



>> No.30267495

Couple of things to start.

1. Drop the lightning claws on the sternguard and tacs. Drop the powermaul on the legion's sergeant as well and consider getting your chapter master some serious toys.

2. I'd say drop the legion as well. 3++ is nice, but with just five dudes, they won't be causing much damage, especially if you're facing nids. Which leads me to my next point.

3. I see you have enough pie plates to cover most of the nid's forces with storm talons to drop the flyrants. I'm not entirely sure what the Inquisitor is there for, however.

4. Last point. Drop the plasma cannon on the tac squads. Heavy weapons are almost always useless on tacs. Get a combi flamer on the sergeant instead.

Last bit - more of a personal bias rather than anything but why the tll lascannon on the razorback? Why not the las plas razorback?

>> No.30267509

Plasma won't benefit from first rank fire! second rank fire! But otherwise the volume of shots should see at least 2-3 dead terminators unless you're facing paladins.

>> No.30267588

Not the guy you responded to, just wanting to state my opinion.
I'd argue gargoyles are now really good if you're wanting a fast moving screen of annoying poisoned attacks. Getting them into combat and keeping them fearless means that each of them will be putting out a poisoned attack that will almost always be rerolling to wound, unless you managed to get them into cc with a riptide, in which case you just gnaw its ankles with poison 6+.

Fun fact, gargoyles will do as well in damaging bio-titans as the miasma cannon, because of how poison rules work.

>> No.30267708

You might want to drop some zoanthropes. You have enough anti tank between the Crones and the monstrous creatures. And besides the extra lance shots the extra ones don't do much. I'd drop 2 from each squad and grab another tervigon, some warriors, or a tyrannofex.

>> No.30267727

If you plan on using them as look out sir bodies, no. But they can provide a soft screen - 5+ cover save for intervening models - and can force fire away from your hive tyrant for a round. You will have to revise your game plan for them if you want to keep them, basically

>> No.30267746

1.But I'm ultrasmurfs anon, wouldn't lightning claws make my odds of assaulting better? (same with maul)

2. They are just part of a project I'm starting to make true scale LotD from scratch. I thought it would be a good idea to include them.

3. The inquisitor is the warlord, his trait lets him drop more pie plates that ignore cover.

4. But anon... I'm mostly castling my box's wouldn't plasma cannons be more effective because they can hurt mcs and kill multiple gaunts?

5. Ehh, I already have a TLLC on one of my razorbacks, I thought I might as well keep it the same.

>> No.30267880

just thought of this list on the fly. I plan to convert all the the tzeentch models to nurgle ones (screamers of tzeentch to leaches of nurgle, lord of change to lord of famine, ect)

Ku'gath plaguefather

lord of change level 3

two units of 20 plague bearers with ridden and instrument

three units of 14 pink horrors with iridescent,locus of conjuration, and instrument

7 nurglings

two units of 3 beasts of nurgle

Fast Attack
one unit of 6 screamers

Heavy Support
soul grinder with MON and phlegm bombardment

daemon prince, MON, flight, warp-forged armor,greater reward, level 3 psker biomancy

>> No.30267909

forgot the total
It's 2500

>> No.30267943

>three units of 14 pink horrors with iridescent,locus of conjuration
>locus of conjurations

Um... only Heralds can take a Locus. You don't seem to have any Heralds.

>> No.30268217

Late, but touche friend.

>> No.30268340

Not the guy you're replying to, but I highly highly recommend getting at least one serpent. While serpents are expensive, hey are incredibly powerful and highly mobile. You can usually hit side armor on turn one (ignoring cover with the shield), and the shield has a crazy long range.

Also, like the previous poster said, taking wraithguard without a transport is really tough. Iyanden has it a bit easier because they can get Battle Focus, but they're still pretty slow to get across the field. In a lot of missions your opponent will be out of range the whole game. With a transport you can zoom in and totally destroy that Land Raider/Dreadnight/Wraithknight/Riptide. I prefer D-scythes as it means no to-hit rolls, and distort can be game-changing.

>> No.30268376

Jokes on you! My front armor sucks!

>> No.30268384

crud I forgot that, is it worth removing stuff to add heralds or should I use the points from the manners for something else?

>> No.30269126

>Inquisitor - Warlord(burnerofworlds)
You don't get to choose the Warlord Trait. You have a 1/6 chance of getting Burner of Worlds.

>x6 Acolytes w/boltguns + Rhino - 98pts
Ditch the Warband. Stick the Inquisitor with another squad, and use the points to buy something useful. You're spending 100 points on a unit that's like Space Marines... except worse in every possible way.

>> No.30269298

Woops, thanks for the heads up.

>> No.30269348

I could turn the unit into a group of 3 plasma gunners, how's that?

>> No.30269496

You could. But again, you're spending over 50 points (not counting any transport you take for it) on sub-par Space Marines. I honestly think you're better off just taking more Marines.

>> No.30269515

>over 50 points
Scratch that. ALMOST 50 points.

I get so used to playing around with my own list that I forget not everyone takes Carapace Armor.

>> No.30269533

Hypothetical study.

>Eldar Codex supplement
>Taking a Phoenix Lord now lets you take their Aspect Warriors as Troops.
>Taking Asurmen gives your Dire Avengers a special rule (let's say Fearless)

How bad is it?

>> No.30269593

If he uses the Iron Hands supplement doesnt it offer a special named "Force Thunder Hammer"? Not on my laptop which has all my WH40k stuff.

>> No.30269749

I'd be tempted as hell to build a Striking Scorpion army.

But fuck, no Warp Spider Phoenix Lord... and they've been my favorite aspect since 2e.

>> No.30269760

Frankly I don't think it would change much. It would be cool and open up some new semi-competitive builds but I doubt the composition of top-tier armies would change.

>> No.30270214

1. Not enough to make it count, I feel. Gaunts have shit for armor save so you only need more attacks but you don't have enough bodies to make assaulting worth it. You're also better off shooting the MCs rather than assaulting them unless you have something that can assault hard.

2. Ah. If that's the case I won't stop you from including the Legion but note that they won't be terribly efficient.

3. As mentioned by >>30269126, you don't get to choose the trait so don't go banking on it.

4. Plasma cannons are horrible against MC's - at best, you get one hit. You also don't get to use it on flying dudes unless you ground them first. If you absolutely must have a heavy weapon, missile launchers. s8 ap3 for big dudes and s4 ap6 blast for the gribblies and you save 10 pts out of the bargain. Don't get flakk missiles.

5. Gotcha. It was a point of curiousity, is all

>> No.30270266

You have two scoring units at 1500pts. Knights are terrible competitively, especially errants.

>> No.30270267

Great for friendly games - I know I would make a striking scorpion army in a heart beat - but as >>30269749 mentioned, it's unlikely that this will change the tournament meta much. I mean if you look at the lists that are making waves on the tournament scene, you will note that there are 0 Phoenix Lords and it's not because they don't unlock aspects as troops

>> No.30270289

Sorta. it's actually a force staff with the stats of a thunder hammer so semantics. I think it comes with something extra too but I can't be arse to check.

>> No.30270343

While I think the heralds + locus is a great idea - extra round of shots, divination for twinlinked s6 ap4 shots - you're going to have to drop either a lord of change or kugath to fit it in and if you drop kugath you have to swap the daemon prince to not nurgle. However, dropping the Lord of Change means you lose a really great greater daemon. I honestly can't make the decision for you.

>> No.30270360

>The Knight Errant is there to handle Riptides, Swarmlords, Daemon Princes, and the like.

Just take the Paladin. A single-shot melta weapon attached to a 370pt chassis isn't going to do dick against stuff like that, it's the Strength D sword that's going to be doing all the work, so you may as well take the version that has double the guns so it can multitask as hordeclear. You've got plenty of AP2 elsewhere.

>> No.30270385

so I was posting around with my idea for starting up sisters w/ around 500 pts, and i altered the list

500 pts
135 pts Saint Celestine
80 pts 5 battle sisters w/ meltagun + heavy flamer
80 pts 5 battle sister w/ meltagun + heavy flamer
105 pts 5 seraphims w/ 2 hand flamers & sister surperior
110pts 5 girl retributor squad w/ 4 heavy bolters
The battle sisters squads are kitted out to sort of deal with any sort of situation they across, with the retributors making up a beefy backline and providing a pile of heavy bolter fire, and the celestians providing an escort force for the saint as well as dealing with hordes with their 5 combines flamer templates

>> No.30270488

It's tricky.

Allies cannot ride inside an allied units transport.

However, the Independant Character rules say that an IC can join any friendly unit, and that while a member of that unit he "counts as part of that unit for all rules purposes" (pg39).

This suggests that as long as your allies are friendly, a single IC can join an allied squad, at which point he is functionally a member of that detachment, and roll in their transport.

>> No.30270521

All of those are cheap.

>> No.30270552

Death Korp Metlas, or convert some up.

>> No.30271002

I'd prefer it if Phoenix Lords could take a Free FOS for an Aspect Warrior squad, in the same way we get a Warlock council that we're supposed to pair with Farseers. They could represent the Disciples that sojourn with the Phoenix and have a couple of USRs thrown in to reflect this.
All-Diresword Exarch council, anyone?

>> No.30271050


You can always tell who has no clue what they're doing and has never played the army when they talk about the game like it's some action movie.

>> No.30271066

>Thats what the armor and heavy weapons are for.

Oh you mean the units with less guns for more points than xenos and IG versions? Space Marine firepower is shit period. All the good firepower is extremely overpriced. As is all the survivable armor like Spartans and Land Raider. 250-300 point for one unit? GTFO. You can get 1.5 Riptides for that which do both MORE DAMAGE and are MORE SURVIVABLE for LESS POINTS.

>> No.30271088

Didn't get any feedback from the last thread.
How easy would it be to crack these suits?

>> No.30272464

>implying anything that isnt pure cheeses will ever even register at the top teir

>> No.30272509

Guys, I have absolutely no idea how to field Draigo and/or paladins efficiently. Every list I make seems to lack basically everyhting from mobility to anti-air and anti-tank, not to mention it'd be next to impossible to reliably occupy more than one capture point.

Could you please help me ?

>> No.30272577

Dreadnoughts, Dreadknights and Stormravens fill your support roles to tackle air and armour, and the Stormravens can double as an effective delivery system.

Try to completely fill your Troops choice, even with single Paladins, to get maximum Holocaust for anti-Jew, uh, I mean anti-infantry.

Also, psycannons + psybolts are your friends.

>> No.30272596

god dammit /tg/ I brought this thread into this world, I can bring it back out

p-pls respond to my list ;_;

looking for ideas to replace the helbrute, he's basically just a distraction for armor saturation. if they shoot him then he did his job, if they ignore him they have an effectively STR 10 monster tearing an asshole in the side of their land raider while shooting melta shots up their ass

if only I had 25 more points, a skull cannon of khorne would do me over...

>> No.30272601

>looking for ideas to replace the helbrute, he's basically just a distraction for armor saturation.
More cultists. Since most of your offensive power is coming from your troops you could do with some babysitters.

>> No.30272633

>Storm raven
>transport for a death star
never, not ever.
its tempting, but the second the enemy learns whats inside, that Armour 12 is going to suddenly look very frail as he pelts it with everything he's got, and once its gone, they have to slog it up, which now days is damn tricky, as paladins are riptide/vindicator bait

>> No.30272644

The thing is a forge fiend can be long range anti tank, close range anti tank, anti air, anti horde and a distraction. It can do anything you need so is more adaptable to what your opponent throws.

So it's role in the list is "react to whatever bullshit your opponent tries"

>> No.30272648

Where did I say to put a deathstar inside it?

>> No.30272662

>and the Stormravens can double as an effective delivery system.
well pallies and drago, is a deathstar. i dont see what else they could be

>> No.30272680


Show me an MEQ army running 60 scoring wounds. Pls.

>> No.30272717

I could do it with sisters

>> No.30272765

I suppose. I just meant it more along the lines of it being a good way to get Paladins into combat.

>> No.30272801

sure buddy
>ever using sisters

ooooh boy

>> No.30272820

Which it is isent. paladins, by virtue of being 2w WS 5 terminators are both expensive and a massive fire magnet. they need a lot of protection, which even the zippy storm raven cant provide. the SR is a well armored flyer, not a well armored vehicle

>> No.30273028

what do you think of this

1500 Points Chaos Space Marine Warband with Daemon Allies

Primary Detachment
Huron Blackheart 160*

x15 Chaos Space Marines**, power sword, x2 melta guns, x2 CCW, MoK, IoW 294
x29 Chaos Cultists 126

Chaos Predator, lascannon sponsons 115
Forgefiend 175
Forgefiend 175

Allied Detachment
Herald of Slaanesh***, lesser reward 55

x15 Daemonettes of Slaanesh 135
x15 Daemonettes of Slaanesh, alluress 140

Skull Cannon of Khorne 125


*Joins Chaos Cultists unit.
*Boltguns replaced with CCW.
***Joins first Daemonettes of Slaanesh unit.

>> No.30273196

foot slogging marines are not what you would call good, especially if you have meltas which require getting close to work

also why H.blackheart with the cultists? whats the logic there?

>> No.30273372

I got some tau from a trade, don't know if i shoul try them or if they are too cheesy and boring to play, the guy gave them away for nothing anyway, at least i can sell them.

so far i have:
12 fire warriors
some pathdfinders
12 kroots
3 crisis
5 stealth suits
a devilfish
a lot of drones

i can also get another 12 warriors and 2 crisis suits from a friend if I want because he doesn't use them anymore

>> No.30273407

huron infiltrates the footslogging marines so they don't really need a transport. worst case scenario I roll a 1 on the D3 and can only infiltrate the marines, best case I roll a 3 and infiltrate the marines and both daemonette units, although the daemonettes are fast enough to not need it if I'm unlucky

huron can't infiltrate himself so he holds my closest objective with the cultists. meanwhile the infiltrating units rush forward into assault/claiming any objectives they can

the predator and forgefiends are long range AT for cracking AV12, AV13+ might give me a hard time but I have the melta marines if there's a land raider I really can't ignore for some reason. the forgefiends also serve double duty as AA and should take down 1 flyer in a pinch, but against flying circuses I'm fucked. it's not really that big of a problem because I mostly play casual games with 1 enemy flyer at the most

the skull cannon is there for armor saturation, and it gives my assault units assault grenades. it's mostly a distraction but can be deadly to hordes and even ram the shit out of enemy transports as a chariot with the gorefeast special rule

that's pretty much my strategy in a nutshell

>> No.30273628

i didn't say it'd be good

>> No.30273745

Seems solid, but I think you'd be better off with a second predator and some havocs or a vindicator instead of forgefiends.

>> No.30273765

So I've come into possession of some Necrons.

This is about 1k, right?

>30 warriors
>6 scarab bases
>3 wraiths

>> No.30273961

What do you guys think of my 1850 pts grey knights list ?



One squad of
5 DCA with sword/axes
4 Crusaders
3 Arco-Flagellants

Three squads of
3 Acolytes with plasma guns
3 Acolytes with boltguns
1 Chimera


Two Dreadknights with heavy incinerator and teleporter

Dreadnought with two TL autocannons and psybolt ammo

Aegis icarus

>> No.30274603

Draigo, a ten man paladin squad and 4 master crafted psycannons with hammers to taste will form the backbone of your army. Use grand strategy for scout - either to outflank or just move up six - and walk up the field and start shooting. Force charges to sling shot your army around. Use Dreadknights with personal teleporters and greatswords as means to tie up the more mobile elements of the enemy and their heavy armor. Incinerators also help thin out hordes quite a bit. As Draigowing you will not be winning the objective game unless you use grand strategy to make your non scoring units scoring or you're playing the relic or emperor's will. So you win by killing their means to score objectives and hold on one, maybe two objectives if you have another squad of paladins. Don't be afraid to run a solodin or a small squad of 2-3 paladins. They are scoring and can kill most things on a charge. If you need more specific advice, ask away - I'll be here a while yet

>> No.30274685

>Aegis icarus
This confuses me. The only squad that could man it would be the Death Cult squad, and you don't want them to sit back, you want them to charge forward.

Plus you already have the Vindicare.

I'd drop the Aegis. Give your Death Cult a Chimera instead.

>> No.30274698

Thanks for the advice.
I was thinking of adding a malleus inquisitor for the extra psycannon and access to divination.
What do you think of stormravens ? They offer a nice way to deal with heavy vehicles, but they never survived long enough to be a worthwile threat whenever I used them.

>> No.30274709

I plan to use it with the vindicare for reliable aa shots and id on the odd t4 character.

>> No.30274724


Is the Iyanden book worth getting?
Also, the reason for why my wraithguard squad is the way it is, is because I had 3 of the old, metallic wraithguards, which I can't wield as an unit due to the new codex, so I need to beef them up with the newer plastic ones. Thus, everyone gets Wraith cannons. However, as the wraiths are bulky, if I want to be able to stick them into a serpent, I need to reduce the squad size by one.
I am considering buying more plastic wraithguards though, as they look fucking fantastic.

>> No.30274735

The Vindicare shooting on his own is already better than the Lascannon.

>> No.30274741

>Is the Iyanden book worth getting?
If you're planning on running a Wrath-heavy army, then yes.

>> No.30274781

They sure do look nice. It'd be a shame not to give them transportation though, moreso if you have 2 units of them.

>> No.30274836

I have been considering getting it, as I was quite impressed by a wraith army I saw one dude use in the game store. Especially because of how easy the army seemed to be to transport.

My hesitance towards vehicles is two fold, firstly, I don't really know how to paint them, and secondly, they take quite large amount of space to transport, when compared to infantry that is.

Also, as wraithguards are bulky, you can't really transport a full squad of them.

The idea I had with the list here:>>30255678
was to pretty much use the Wraithguards as a slow marching force that would blast the crap out of anything that got in it's way, while the other forces supported them. I was planning on sticking both the Farseer, and the Spiritseer into the squad, though I am not exactly sure if two independent characters can join the same squad.

Again, I have never played the game, so I have no idea if my plan would have actually worked.

>> No.30274930

>I have been considering getting it, as I was quite impressed by a wraith army I saw one dude use in the game store. Especially because of how easy the army seemed to be to transport.
Here's what you get in the Iyanden supplement:

The ability to nominate a Wraithlord or Wraithknight as your Warlord (although they don't become HQ choices by doing so; you still have to take a required HQ which will probably be a Spiritseer anyway).

The ability to take up to 5 Spiritseers as a single HQ choice (meaning that your army could have up to 10 if you use both HQ slots for Spiritseers).

New set of relics, which are pretty awesome, in my opinion.

New Primaris Power for your Spiritseers that gives Battle Focus and Furious Charge to all units with Wraith models within 12" (but is Warp Charge 2).

New Warlord Traits, which are amazing if you use a Wraithlord or Wraithknight as your Warlord.

The supplement basically assumes that you're going to have pretty much nothing but Wraith models (and Spiritseers), and gives those models a huge boost.

But it does absolutely nothing for you if you're not taking Wraith models.

So the fewer non-Wraith models you have, the better the supplement will be for you.

>> No.30275116


It seems that the supplement wouldn't benefit me that much, right now at least, as I don't have that many wraith units.

I might consider it in the future. The primary goal of my current list is to just allow me to play a match, with some change of actually not being totally curb stomped.

>> No.30275498

I don't really like storm ravens though that's more due to me not liking flyers in general - to much hassle for their worth. Adding an inquisitor for +1 psycannon and divination is a great idea actually. Its something I haven't really considered.

As for anti tank, it depends on your local meta. Typically dreadknights and psycannons can take care of most things but if you really need some ranged firepower, consider either a vindicare or dreadnouughts with autocannons and psybolt ammo.

>> No.30275544

You can any number of independent characters in a squad. You can even have a squad comprised entirely of independent characters. As for the viability of your plan that will depend heavily on the leanings of your group. If your local group favors shooting and loads of it then you're in for a rough ride. The wraiths have short range on their guns and only move 6" a turn. Assuming you play on a 4x4 board, it'll take you 2 turns, maybe 3 for your wraithguard to be in range. If your local group favors assault armies and tactics then your plan will work better.

>> No.30275590


That's kind of the problem, as I have no experience with the game at all, or the people who play it at the GW store. (which is the only place in the whole country where 40k is played that I know.) This would be considerably easier if I had friends, or even acquaintances who played 40k, but I don't.

>> No.30275748

2000p Death Guard list

Typhus - 230
Necrosius - 160

6x PM: 2x Plasma, CombiP - 184
6x PM: 2x Plasma, CombiP - 184
6x PM: 2x Plasma, CombiP - 184
25x Zombies - 110
25x Zombies - 110

BaleDrake - 170
5x Spawn: MoN - 180
6x Bikes: MoN, 2x Melta, PF - 205

Predator: Las, Las Sponsons - 140
Predator: Las, Las Sponsons - 140

Total - 1997

>> No.30275796

Is the GW friendly? How are the people who play there like? If you plan on playing there, it would be good to get to know them. Take a look at their games, ask questions and poke and prod and learn about the local environment. And then come back and report your progress

>> No.30275960


From what I have seen when I visited the place a couple of times, the staff seems to be mostly pretty friendly. I can't say much about the people who play there, as I have been there during only two game days. The guy who played the wraith army was pretty bro tier though, and did answer my questions when I asked them.
Most of them, at least based on what I have seen, (which isn't that much) seem to be marine players, though there are at least 3 eldar players as well. There was also this one chaos marine player.

But again, I haven't really been there enough to know shit about the players who visit that place. The store isn't even located in the place where I live. It is located in the capitol, and to my knowledge, it is the only GW store in Finland.

>> No.30276160

Newer player looking to play Tau... Farsight Enclaves specifically. Here's my 1850pt list.

Commander Farsight (165pts)

XV104 Riptide Battlesuit (230pts)
-Heavy Burst Cannon, Riptide Shield Generator, Twin-linked Smart Missile System
-2 Shielded Missile Drones

Fire Warrior Team (238pts)
-11 Fire Warrior Shas'la w/ Pulse Rifles, 1 Shas'ui w/Pulse Rifle, Photon Grenades
-Devilfish w/ Blacksun Filter and Decoy Launchers
-Marker Drone
-Shield Drone

XV8 Crisis Team (257pts)
-Crisis Shas'ui w/ Advanced Targeting System, Missile Pod, Plasma Rifle
-Crisis Shas'ui w/ Shield Generator, Burst Cannon, Flamer
-Crisis Shas'vre w/ ATS, Missile Pod, Plasma Rifle
-4 Gun Drones
-Marker Drone
-Shield Drone

XV8 Crisis Team (242pts)
-Crisis Shas'ui w/ Burst Cannon, Fusion Blaster, Missile Pod
-Crisis Shas'ui w/ ATS, Flamer, Plasma Rifle
-Crisis Shas'vre w/ ATS, Burst Cannon, Missile Pod
-4 Gun Drones
-Marker Drone
-Shield Drone

XV8 Crisis Team (242pts)
-Crisis Shas'ui w/ Burst Cannon, Twin-linked Missile Pod
-Crisis Shas'ui w/ ATS, Burst Cannon, Plasma Rifle
-Crisis Shas'vre w/ ATS, Fusion Blaster, Plasma Rifle
-4 Gun Drones
-Marker Drone
-Shield Drone

Heavy Support:

Hammerhead Gunship (140pts)
-ATS, Automated Repair System, Railgun, Twin-linked Burst Cannon

Hammerhead Gunship (140pts)
-ATS, ARS, Railgun, Twin-linked Smart Missile System

XV88 Broadside Team (196pts)
-Broadside Shas'ui w/ ATS, Twin-linked Heavy Rail Rifle, Twin-linked Smart Missile System
-Broadside Shas'vre w/ ATS, Twin-linked Heavy Rail Rifle, Twin-linked Smart Missile System
-2 Missile Drones
-Marker Drone
-Shield Drone

>> No.30276357

What the fuck happened to your fluffy yin yang Nurgle/khorne dual pred list you said you made for your own created chapter?

This list has fallen so far off your "fluff" your clearly some sort of quasi-power gaming faglord. At least that's what I'd say if your list was either "good" or "fluffy"

I hope you never find a game.

>> No.30276481

List for a 2K point tournament.

>> No.30276498

Derp, forgot to include the list. HQ: 230
Chaos Lord (65), Mark of Slaanesh (15), Power Fist (25), Lightning Claw (15), Sigil of Corruption (25), Chaos Bikes (20). Total: 165
Herald of Slaanesh (45), Greater Reward (20), Total: 65

Troops: 735
Noise Marines x5 (95), Blastmaster (30). Total: 125
Noise Marines x5 (95), Blastmaster (30). Total: 125
Noise Marines x5 (95), Blastmaster (30). Total: 125
Daemonettes x20: 180
Daemonettes x20: 180

Fast Attack: 579
Heldrake (170), Baleflamer (free). Total: 170
Heldrake (170), Baleflamer (free). Total: 170
Chaos Bikers x7 (150), Power Sword (15), Meltagun x2 (20), Meltabomb (5) Mark of Slaanesh x7 (14), Icon of Excess (35). Total: 239

Heavy Support: 456
Obliterators x2 (140), Mark of Nurgle x2 (12). Total: 152
Obliterators x2 (140), Mark of Nurgle x2 (12). Total: 152
Obliterators x2 (140), Mark of Nurgle x2 (12). Total: 152


>> No.30276638

That sounds promising. I've gone through your list and the one thing it needs is a focus. What said focus is can only be decided after you have a better idea of how a game will unfold. For example, are you planning to go for the table, looking to kill everything that moves? Are you looking to hold objectives? You have a lot of units that fulfill different tasks - some of which aren't all that required depending on how you want to take the army. I know you're new to this, which is why I suggest taking the time to visit the GW a bit more, maybe check out some battle reports to get a better sense and feel for the game. In fact, it would be better if you started small - 500 points or so - to get the hang of rolling the dice and how the phases work while getting a feel for the units and how you would like to see them deployed.

>> No.30276899


Thanks for the advice. Now that I think of it, it might be smarter for me to make a smaller list first, so that I don't have that much stuff to keep track off, and many rules to remember, in the first match that I play.

A farseer with the all the runes 125p

5 Dire avengers 65p

5 Dire avengers 65p

6 Striking Scoprions 142 p
-Exarch with claw

>Heavy Support.
Wraithlord 165 p.
-Ghost glaive, Bright lance and scatter laser (or a second bright lance for tank killing, I don't really know which would be better. The laser lock rule seems pretty good though.)

Total:562 points.

>> No.30277008

While there's no hard and fast rule about it, I've found that people like their games in increments of 50 or 100 so for your list, why not make it a 600 point list? It would be easier to find a player if your list was in one of the more normal brackets - 500, 1k, 1500, 1750, 1850 and 2000. I say normal but as there's no hard or fast rule about them, that's really between you and your opponent what points level you want to set.

Now, onto your list. Scatter laser/bright lance will ensure your bright lance hits. However, depending on what you're shooting at, the scatter laser might be ineffectual whereas two bright lances at bs4 should see both hits 4 times out of 6. The only drawback is you lose anti infantry viability from the scatter laser. This brings back to the question of unit roles. What do you want your wraithlord to do?

>> No.30277081


I could get the list to 505 points by dropping the Scorpion exarch, or I could get it nearly up to 600 by giving one Avenger squad an exarch with power weapon and shimmer shield.

As for the wraith lord, at least from my meager understanding of the rules, it is the only unit in this list that could kill armored targets reliably. I just don't know if my other squads have enough killing power to fight off enemy forces without anti infantry support from the Wraithlord.

>> No.30277388

As I mentioned before, points limits are decided between opponents so don't worry about that too much.

At 500 points you won't have to worry about heavy armor. Unless of course someone is playing codex inquisition and runs a cheap inquisitor with a warband and a land raider... but what are the odds of that? You might see transports, but those can be dealt with by your other lighter units - spiders are amazing in this regard. My advice? Leave the wraithlord at home but consider bringing it at high points level

>> No.30277475


Alright. So instead I should bring the Warp Spiders? I have always liked the unit's look and fluff, though I don't know how they work on the tabletop that well. Their warp jump rules kind of concern me, with the fact that you can lose units due to random double you roll.

>> No.30277674

Spiders are arguably the best unit in the Fast Attack slot for Eldar with the ability to shit loads of high strength shots at a target. Ideally you'll want to give the exarch a spinneret rifle, but I understand that you're limited by the models. Something to keep in mind.

Scorpions are also a respectable unit in this codex and is capable of dealing with a variety of threats thanks to weight of attacks and the exarch with claw. Just don't goo throwing them at EVERYTHING as hardcore close combat units - this includes monstrous creatures - will eat them for breakfast.

Would you like a brief rundown of the units you have?

>> No.30277759


The experiments I have run with the models I have only include pitting 10 dire avengers against 4 Tyranid Warriors, and the results I got from those dice rolling tests only showed me how potentially amazing the bladestorm rule is.

So I would really appreciate any advice.

>> No.30278030

A quick write up of the units in your list above. If you need anything specific, just ask

Farseer - a great generic support HQ. Comes with great tables in the form of Divination and RUnes of Fate. As a rule of thumb you want spells that help your army or hinder theirs like Guide, Misfortune and the like.

Dire Avengers - They are slightly more survivable than guardians with longer range. Not exactly bad, it's just that the windrider jetbikes are better for their points. Still a respectable unit and a decent source for bladestorm. Note that the shimmershield provides a 5+ invulnerable save for the WHOLE unit until the bearer dies. Useful to note.

Fire Dragons - Cheaper and squishier versions of Wraithguards though their main bit is that they turn vehicles to slag. Usually brought in small numbers as suicide squads due to their shorter than normal range. If you need a vehicle dead, these guys are your man.

Falcon - while it packs more conventional guns than the wave serpent, it lacks the serpent shield, which makes it less than awesome. Still, it packs a mean punch and can carry units to increase its threat so it's still pretty good. It's just not wave serpent good.

Wraithlord - he's big, he's tough and he packs a decent amount of firepower. General consensus is to bring two bright lances and two flamers and use the flamers to eat infantry while your bright lances chew through vehicles.

>> No.30278050

Ah, one other thing. Bladestorm is indeed great as it allows even a meager guardian to threaten high toughness creatures and heavy infantry. Just don't go banking on it

>> No.30278108

Forgefiends and the Murder Sword? What am I reading?

>> No.30278389


I do have bunch of questions.
Firstly, should the farseer be put into a squad, or moved alone?
Secondly, are any of the Dire Avenger exarch powers worth it? They seem all to relate to Challenges, which I don't really understand how they work.
Regarding the Fire Dragons, is the firepike good weapon choice for the exarch?
I also would like to know if the wraith blades are any good, as I might get more wraith models, mostly because I really like the way they look.

I am kind of confused about how the Warp Spiders move. The rule in the codex says that they can either move as jetpack infantry, or make the warp jump. Is the Warp jump worth taking the risk of losing models?

Also, It might be worth mentioning that I do posses 3 warlocks, and a bunch of guardians along with a second wraithlord, but I am not really intent on using them because I painted them like 5 years ago, and they quite honestly look like shit.
That probably doesn't matter for this 500 or so point list we are discussing though.

Finally, I think that I mentioned it earlier, but I also have some Dark Eldar forces. 1 Archon, 10 wytches, 10 kabalite warriors, a ravager, a raider and 6 reavers. I haven't assembled most of them, as I am pretty much clueless of what gear works for them, especially the archon. I would appreciate some advice on them as well.

I have planned on making two workable armies, even small ones, that I could use to get some of my friends interested in 40k, without them having to buy an army for themselves. My whole motivation for that, and making this list in general, is that I am sick of having the models, but lacking any knowledge, or even opportunity to play the game itself.

>> No.30278395

Your burnaz and bustaz are very vulnerable to getting shot at at the start of the game when they're out of their transports.

Also, why is this >>30257115 in it's own post?

>> No.30278543

1850 pts grey knight combat group.

Malleus Inquisitor
Terminator armour, psycannon, psyker

10 Terminators
2 psycannons, 2 hammers, psybolt ammo

10 Grey Knights
2 psycannons, psybolt ammo

10 Interceptors
2 incinerators, 2 hammers, psybolt ammo
Justicar halberd

2 Dreadknights
2 heavy incinerators, 2 teleporters

2 TL autocannons, psybolt ammo

Aegis defence line

>> No.30278634

>HB Chims
why would you do this to me anon

>> No.30278645

1. You've got a good point anon

2. To true

3. He will be useful joined up with the Thunderfire cannon

4. Sounds great, I love me my explosives.

>> No.30278652

Questions! And hopefully satisfactory answers.

1. Always put your farseer in a squad. If he moves alone he's as good as dead. Which squad to put him in, however, is dependent on how you want your army to function.

2. First, Battle Fortune works outside of challenges giving the exarch a 4+ invulnerable save. As for challenges, they are a subsection of the assault phase. Basically when you charge a unit, and your unit contains a character - noted by having the (ch) symbol in their entry at the back of the codex - you can have the character challenge an enemy character if there's one in the unit you charge. If there's none, nothing happens. If the enemy accepts, those two models duke it out in their own little ring. If the enemy does not accept, the enemy character cannot attack this round. Now if you did not issue a challenge, your enemy can then issue a challenge and if you don't accept, your character cannot swing thi round. That's the long and short of it. As for the use of the dire avenger's exarch powers... you don't want your dire avengers to get caught in close combat so no, not very useful.

3. Warp spiders - in the movement phase - can opt to move the standard 6" or elect to do the warp jump where you move 6" + 2d6". This allows your warp spiders to get within striking distance as early as turn one, deployment willing. As for whether it's worth it, I would say yes if your squad numbers more than 5 models.

4. Wraithblades make respectable melee combatants. In some ways they are better than Scorpions - ap3/ap2 weapons, better strength, the option for an invulnerable save and higher toughness - and in some ways they are worse - I4, no grenades, bulky, not very fast, not a lot of attacks. Honestly I would pick scorpions over them any day of the week, but I won't lie - I build 5 of them and they look extremely badass and I have been trying to find a way to field them.

Comments about dark eldar to follow in continuing post

>> No.30278688

Hell Rifles are heavy weapons last time I checked anon, no-ones going to be riding around firing that. Also, what is the Land Raider for? No-one fits in it that doesn't have their own transport, and it's the worst sort of Land Raider.

>> No.30278714

As for dark eldar, I don't understand them very well. What little I know is that they want to go fast and the moment they stop, they die. I do understand where you're coming from though, about making multiple armies. I've been doing a bit of that myself - my buddies and i have created a sort of community chest where we loan models we own for use by other people. I do it so I don't have to fight proxy armies and I enjoy the modelling aspect of this hobby. I don't actually play eldar, but I've been tinkering with a couple of lists to get the imagination pumping to build those eldar models for the community chest.

>> No.30278742

Why interceptors?

>> No.30278795

To support the dreadknights.

>> No.30278808

Dark Eldar are a hit or miss army, if they can do heavy damage to you turn one they've got a good shot of winning. If you survive their initial onslaught and start popping their Origami vehicles, you'll win.

>> No.30279011

I see. I'm not a big fan of interceptors to be honest and for that price tag I would get a 5 man paladin team with psycannons and maybe a hammer in there to walk up the field or deepstrike, your call. Figure they would support the dreadknights better by picking out targets with psycannon fire as they march up the field

>> No.30279014


Thanks for the advice, I really appreciate it.
For me, one additional benefit of the 500 point army is that I don't have to paint nearly as much units, so I am not in as big of a hurry.

I take that the only useful gear for the Dire Avenger exarch is the shimmer shield/power weapon combo, and that his exarch powers are not that useful. Is getting the exarch even worth the points?

As for the warp spider movement, my confusion stems from how the rules in the codex say that they can move as either jetpack infantry, or make the warp jump. I take that the rule means that they can move like jetpack infantry, that is moving on the ground, and not using their jetpacks, right?

As for the Dark Eldar, I take that they might be too hard faction to play for a new player, and thus not very useful for me if I want to lure other people to this hobby. I also have a bunch of Nids, (1 tyrant, 6 warriors, a fex, 10 gargoyles, 3 raveners, bunch of gene stealers and gaunts.), but from what I have gathered from nid threads here, they seem to be crappy right now, which is why I was considering making the Dark Eldar stuff I have into the second army. They could also work as allies for my eldar forces, which is a bonus for me.

>> No.30279031

Trying replying to the people you are replying to.

>> No.30279049

IG and SW Long Fang Heavy Bolters are the only okay-ish infantry-mounted heavy bolters in the game, and they're still questionable.

>> No.30279074


>Taking Asurmen gives your Dire Avengers a special rule (let's say Fearless)

All the PL's have fearless. The problem is that the Avatar grants a fearless bubble as well as having a better statline for less points. It really grinds my gears that the Lords give no benefit to their respective aspects. You might as well have Karandras join Dragons so you can infiltrate something that otherwise can't.

Either give them unique rules that actually make them good squad leaders (Karandras had a cool one in apoc that let him jump from cover to cover and still assault) or at least give them a better statline than a temple assassin. They're the gestalt of millions of years of battle experience. WS7 my dick.

>> No.30279095

30 warriors is 390
Barge is 90
3 wraiths are from 105 to 150
6 scarabs are 90
Overlord is 160 for most loadouts, possibly more.
Cryptek is from 25 to 65 ish.

So not quite, but almost there.
Download the PDF

>> No.30279159

That Razorback is not going to last long, and you are taking the blatantly worse Knight.

>> No.30279242

Not a problem. Refer below for more detailed answers.

1. Typically people just don't pick up the dire avenger exarch for reasons you have just pointed out - he doesn't bring a lot to the table that changes the dynamic of a dire avenger squad aside from a 5+ invulnerable save.

2. The wording is a bit wonky but if you refer to the reference section of the rulebook, you'll find a section where it lists the movement speeds of the different types of units. Page 425. In the movement phase they move 6" but as they are jet pack infantry, in the assault phase spiders can elect to boost away, moving 2d6 in any direction. This is not a warp jump so no worries there. More information can be found on big rule book page 47.

Dark eldar definitely has one of the steepest learning curve in the game. As for nids, they aren't as bad as the internet claims. If anything, they're about a little under the middle line. They won't be winning tournaments much - hence the crying - but for friendly games they'll do just fine so don't worry about the nids sucking too hard.

>> No.30279271

What with the advent of dataslates, I wonder if we'll see dataslates for aspect warriors? It would definitely be cool I think and would allow people to rock out two farseers and still run a phoenix lord and his disciples

>> No.30279309


So, with how the models are equipped, they total up to 895.

So I was thinking of giving one of the wraiths whip coils and adding a unit of 5 deathmarks, which makes it 1k exactly.

Sound like a good list for a beginner?

>> No.30279344


Thank you, that clears things up considerably.
I had forgotten the movement rule of jetpack units during the assault stage.

Also, as I have no interest in making some sort of super competitive list, I guess that I can actually try to make the nids into a second army. Any advice for what would be a good loadout for the Carnifex and the Hive Tyrant?

>> No.30279358

How tall knight paladin? I estimate 6 inches, but i think it can be smaller.

>> No.30279386

Reports put it at wraithknight height. I think that's about 8-9 inches?

>> No.30279403


It's about a head taller than a Trygon, so it's about 6-7 inches.

>> No.30279454

People like two twin linked devourers with wings on the Hive Tyrant. As for Carnifex, I've a soft spot for the dakkafex - two twinlinked brainleach devourers. Keeps em cheap and increases their threat range against most MCs and Infantry

>> No.30279468

Oh? That's what I get for out dated news.

>> No.30279478

I was comparing it to the forge world avatar
>Complete resin model standing approximately 118mm (4.7 Inches) tall

>> No.30279488

HQ Formation:
*Company command squad - 50
-Heavy Flamer - 20
-Flamer X2 - 10
-Sniper Rifle - 5
*Chimera - 55
*Heavy Weapons Squad - 60
-Autocannon - 10
-Lascannon x2 - 30

Infantry Platoon:
*Platoon Command Squad - 30
-Power Weapon - 10
-Medi-Pack - 30
-Platoon Standard - 15
-Vox-Caster - 5
-Meltagun - 10
*Infantry Squad -50
-Vox-Caster - 5
-Flamer - 5
*Infantry Squad - 50
-Vox-Caster - 5
-Flamer - 5

Mechanised Formation:
*Basilisk - 125
*Stormtroopers - 85
-5 Extra models - 80
-Flamer - 5
-Grenade launcher - 5

Total = 750

>> No.30279489

It's a good base to start your collection, definitely as you'll end up using everything there and you'll want more - minus warriors - of everything there as well

>> No.30279494


Yeah, there's a picture in the WD announcing the Knights of one face-to-face with a Trygon. They're about eye level with each other, but the Knight has the big hunch which adds one or two inches.

>> No.30279617


I certainly wouldn't mind a Court of The Young King or a Phoenix Lord Retinue Dataslate. Phoenix Lords are one of the 3 redundant choices (PLs, Banshees and Falcons) in an otherwise awesome codex.

>> No.30279869

Mmm, that would be cool. Honestly, I really like the idea of dataslates and what they can do with it and this seems like the perfect thing to do.

>> No.30279939

Interesting, but there'd have to be a discount for the multiple exarchs (3-5pts per model) and then it'll still be debatable if the PL was pulling his weight in the list.

Would simply recosting the Lords fix the problem? Or do they need a boost to their stats and rules, instead and/or as well? As one guy says quite aptly, Imperial Assassins have better weapon and ballistic skills than them.

>> No.30279953


I personally am not too fond of the fly tyrants, or fexes with loads of guns, mostly just for aesthetic reasons. Are melee focused fexes, or walking tyrants anyway viable?

>> No.30279999


Dataslates and supplements do offer a pretty neat way of balancing the game in between editions.

>> No.30280032

They can still wreck shit, but the guns give them the option to shoot at stuff if they can't charge. If they don't have guns, they're stuck having to run to the enemy which means a turn, maybe 2 turns of nothing from the unit. Carnifexes have it the worse, as they only move 6" while hive tyrants with wings move a minimum of 12". Alright dude, heading to bed. If you have any more questions, shoot away and if the thread is still up when I get up, I'll tackle them or someone else will in my absence. Take care

>> No.30280078


Thanks for the advice you have given. It has been helpful, and it is appreciated.

>> No.30280187


You can't buy trukks as is, you need an unit that can take one as a dedicated transport. Your boys mobs are too large to take trukks.

>> No.30280498


You only have one troops choice. What I'm seeing is...
HQ - 1, Troops - 1, Heavy Support -1, Elites, -1.

Your heavy weapons squad is part of a platoon, not a CCS, too.

Also, infantry at a 750 points game is very small for guard.

>> No.30281264

Hey guys, mind giving me some pointers?
Don't play Warhammer, but I'm thinking about it.

Generally, I'm looking for an army that would let me field a few mid-to-large robots who can melee at least semi-effectively, and still remain semi-competitive.

>> No.30282109

This is my actual problem with the nid dex.

Walkrants are a total joke, melee fexes are more of a total joke.

The problem with the nid dex isn't that its mid teir, the problem is that to even be mid-teir with the nids you have to build like a WAAC powergaming faggot

>> No.30282569

Iron Hands Chapter Tactics lets you take Dreadnoughts as Elites and Heavy Support choices. You could have an army of 6 Dreadnoughts, plus more if you ally with another Space Marines detachment, letting you take even more.

>> No.30282768

That's pretty awesome sounding.
Are Dreadnoughts any good in this edition, though?
Or will my wicked army of big-robos get wiped every time I play?

>> No.30282775

A few things come to mind.
Orks dreadmob from the imperial armour books, or if you don't like forgeworld you can play grey knights with dreadknights or tau with their various battlesuits.

Dreadnoughts kinda suck though.

>> No.30282873

Ah damn, Dreads suck still?
That's too bad, it was part of what kept me from playing a while ago.
Looked at Necrons when they came out, way back in elementary school, but they're not really big ol' robots, more of a 'not-undead in spaaace' feel.

Tau would be cool, lots of shooty, which I hear is really good this edition, but they suck in combat.

>> No.30282995


Ironclad dreads in drop pods with Iron Hands rules are okay.

>> No.30283029

Actually the blood angel dreadnoughts are quite good. I'm no expert of the matter though.

>> No.30283042

storm giants (salamanders)

vulkan he'stan (storm giants chapter master)-190

5 Sternguard vetrans-120-185
-master crafted power maul-15
-3 combi-meltas-30
-2 meltaguns-20

Drop pod-35-50
-deathwind launcher-15

-space marine bike-20
-storm shield-15
-master crafted teeth of terra-35
-melta bomb-5
-teleport homer-10

5 space marine bikers-105-215
-vetrean sergeant-10
-master crafted power maul-15
-2 meltaguns-20
-attack bike-45
-multi melta-10

5 Scouts-55-95
-vetrean sergeant-10
-melta bomb-5
-master crafted power maul-15

land speeder storm-45-55

5 Scouts-55-95
-vetrean sergeant-10
-melta bomb-5
-master crafted power maul-15

land speeder storm-45-55

5 Devastator-70-190
-veteran sergeant-10
-master crafted combi-grav-10
-4 missile launchers-60
-4 flakk missiles-40

-hunter killer-10

stormtalon gunship-110-145
-typhoon missile launcher-35

>> No.30283052

Two TL Devs on Hive Tyrant. Same on Carnifex or base with AG if you want them melee

>> No.30283120

>Are Dreadnoughts any good in this edition, though?
Iron Hands (with the supplement) makes them a lot better. Take a Master of the Forge as your HQ and you can repair hull points all day.

Unfortunately, they're still only av12, which means they're pretty vulnerable to just getting wrecked or exploded.

>Or will my wicked army of big-robos get wiped every time I play?
Against an army with a lot of above-average strength weapons, yes. But against armies that don't have a lot of strength 6+ weaponry, then you should do pretty well. Running Iron Hands will make it so your opponent can't really glance you to death (unless you get really unlucky on a lot of different rolls).

>> No.30283293

So Iron Hands and Blood Angels have some war-worthy rules, and I looked up the minis too.

Damn, that Furioso looks good and mean.
You can ally BA and Iron Hands, right?
Might be able to do an army like this, if that's possible.

>> No.30283304

That's not a lot of bodies. At 1,500 points my army will outnumber you about 2-to-1, and I'm not even running a horde army.

Flakk missiles are garbage. You're paying 40 extra points for something that doesn't have Interceptor and is only s7, meaning that you'll need 5s just to glance any of the scary flyers (which is what you should be planning for).

Since you're giving them a rhino anyway, I would just take multi-meltas, ride them up with the rest of your army, and just melt everything in your path.

Your stormtalon can hunt flyers with its typhoon launcher's krak missiles anyway.

>> No.30283338

I completely blanked on glancing hits being able to kill stuff now.
I guess that happens when you only look at the models/read for fluff.

I'll still be screwed against something like Necrons/Tau/Eldar in most cases, right?

>> No.30283343

Nah man, it's the master of the forge that lets you take dreadnoughts as elite and heavy support. Iron Hands traits gives those bad boys the It Will Not Die special rule. It's pretty boss.

>> No.30283344

>Damn, that Furioso looks good and mean.
It is. Give it a pair of Blood Talons and it'll absolutely shred infantry in close combat.

>You can ally BA and Iron Hands, right?
Yes, but the Blood Angels won't benefit from Iron Hands chapter tactics.

>> No.30283422


>Sternguard vet
If you take meltaguns, you don't have access to their delicious ammo.

>Drop pod
I don't think the deathwind is worth it.

Bike is nice, stormshield is nice, the teeth however ? Mehhh. Also why no artificier armor ?

Since you already have pod vets with melta, you should consider giving them gravguns.

Their only hope of survival is to not look threatening enough for the enemy to bother shooting them.
Seriously, they're not going to survive. Why not increase the odds of making them useful by giving them sniper rifles and camo cloaks ?

I'm not a fan of flakk missiles. You'd be better off with a hunter/stalker imo.

Paying 10 points for a single shot missile launcher is not only useless, but detrimental as you don't use those points for something useful, like the enemy would. Even more so since you're increasing the odds of the rhino getting shot at, which the devastators wouldn't appreciate.

I hope I've been helpful in any way.

>> No.30283485

>Nah man, it's the master of the forge that lets you take dreadnoughts as elite and heavy support. Iron Hands traits gives those bad boys the It Will Not Die special rule. It's pretty boss.
You're right, my mistake. I don't play Space Marines, so I don't keep track of all the different tactics and rules they have (and I'm too lazy to pick out their codex from my pile to look them up).

>I'll still be screwed against something like Necrons/Tau/Eldar in most cases, right?
Actually, you'd have a better chance against Tau because their Pulse Rifles are only s5, meaning that Fire Warriors are entirely useless against Dreadnoughts. But they still have a ton of heavy weapons, and those will ruin your day.

Necrons can still glance everything on a roll of a 6, so they'll probably have a field day with your army.

Eldar will probably just kite you into oblivion. They're incredibly mobile (assuming Wave Serpent spam... which you should plan for against Eldar), which means they can usually get behind your dreadnoughts and pop their rear armor (which is only av10).

So yeah, all three are going to be a real problem for a dreadnought-heavy list.

The armies you're probably going to do well against are horde armies with a lot of low-strength attacks that try to overwhelm opponents. Tyranids, orks, daemons, that sort of stuff. But even those lists have ways of dealing with dreadnoughts.

And, what's probably the biggest nail in the coffin, is that you can still only take 6 of them, which is not a lot of models.

>> No.30283486

Eyup. Unless you're shredding them in cqc.

>> No.30283689

Well damn, that's a bit disheartening, but I could always just have that list on hand for fun, friendly games, and have alternate lists to deal with the shooty buggers.

Other than that, my other idea for a flavourful army would be something like the Death Korps, with some Dreadnoughts as allies.
If that even makes sense, thematically.

It wouldn't be my vision of a sea of medium-big models, but this is Warhams, not Battletech.

Oh and there are apparently two different Iron Hands lists, the Space Marine codex, and the Horus Heresy list. I assume whomever has been giving me the Iron Hands advice was referring to the Codex, not the Forge World stuff.

>> No.30283751

thank you for your input, but do what would you think of dropping the devastators getting a stalker and just doubling down on the scout/storm speeders?
p.s.I already ordered the first one today and I really think it could be pretty good
p.s.s. also gravs on the bikes is probably a good idea, but I think I might keep the attack bike multi melta, also maybe give one of the stern guard a heavy flamer and just drop the death wind launcher

>> No.30284050

>I assume whomever has been giving me the Iron Hands advice was referring to the Codex, not the Forge World stuff.

>my vision of a sea of medium-big models
Your best bet is probably going to be a Tau army using the Farsight Supplement rules. That lets you take Crisis Suits as troops, so you can build an entirely army out of mecha models.

An army like that is also fairly effective on the table.

Instead of a stalker, I'd just take another stormtalon. Their krak missiles are very nice for taking down even heavy flyers, and because they're flyers as well, they automatically have the skyfire rule. Not only that, but if your opponent doesn't have flyers, then they're still pretty effective against ground targets.

And, most importantly, for what you get, they're dirt cheap.

Another stormtalon would not only give you plenty of anti-air, but also make your army deal more damage to anything on the ground.

>maybe give one of the stern guard a heavy flamer and just drop the death wind launcher
With Salamander tactics, I think that's a great move. That not only gives your sternguard the ability to pop tanks with the abundance of melta, but also fend off hordes with a heavy flamer.

>> No.30284218

Cool, all the Crisis Suits sound pretty freaking scary.
Not CQC-viable, but certainly a nightmare of mechanized firepower.

>> No.30284241

Combat squad vet with 5 combi-meltas and 4 combi-flamers + heavy flamer.

>> No.30284269

You'd be surprised. They hold their own in cqc against unprepared opponents. But don't worry, with their jetpack move, they'll never be in cqc.

>> No.30284432

Horus Heresy Lists anyone?

Sons of Horus 1749/1750

Legion Centurion 190
-Siege Breaker
-3x Phosphex bombs
-Thunder hammer
-Artificer Armor
-Refractor field
-Jump pack


Apothecary Detachment 135
-3x apothecaries


Tactical Squad 260
-10x additional 100
-legion vexilla

Tactical Squad 270
-10x additional
-legion vexilla
-all swap bolters for CCWs
-power axe 10

Fast Attack
Reaver Attack Squadron 219
-4x chain axes
-sgt power axe
-melta gun
-jump pack
-sgt melta bomb

Heavy Support

Legion Heavy Support Squad 365
-5x additional
-10x missile launchers
-hardened armor
-flakk missiles

Legion Medusa 155
-Phosphex shells

Legion Medusa 155
-Phosphex shells

>> No.30284553

Planning a mono-Khorne daemon list, what would serve me better as a HQ. A winged DP or a blood thruster? Both would get a greater ether blade and maybe another reward depending on points.

>> No.30284616

I have a 40k question but didn't want to make a new thread.

A friend told me that the bionic eyes of tech-priests glow green, not red. Is this canon, or is he full of it?

>> No.30284655

I don't think there is any canon saying it has to be a specific colour.

>> No.30284722

it's probably (fluff wise) all up to the filter,and what it might do, like night vision or thermal, in a lot of books it probably glows green but that's because many people like to paint it that way, and that really has to do with them being complimentary colors

>> No.30284758

>the red robes and glowing green eyes and glowing plasma pistols

>> No.30284842

if you have a demon army as the prime FOC heralds are the way to go because you can have like 3 hqs for one slot, and that could keep you busy points wise till at least 1500

>> No.30284845


The glowy part of a plasma pistol is the radiator.

>it radiates

>> No.30284906


Sorry man, I don't really understand the terminology what you are using. What do you mean by AG?

Completely unrelated to that, I just ran few tests by pitting a bunch of my eldar models against my nids.
Is it possible for a squad of 10 dire avengers to completely wipe out 10 termagants in one round of shooting? Because if I understood the rules right, that happened during my test. Termagants couldn't even take armor saves.

Also, I have a question, if someone who is more well versed in the game can answer it. Does the rule regarding instant death from attacks whose strength is two times higher, or even more powerful, than the target's toughness apply in close combat?
I assumed that it did during the test, and because of that, a striking scorpion exarch with the claw and crushing blow, wrecks the shit out of tyranid warriors and raveners.

>> No.30284936

>Combat squad vet with 5 combi-meltas and 4 combi-flamers + heavy flamer.
kinda feels like a lot of points to fill a role the scouts already excel at

>> No.30284949

Question, /tg/.

In the Tau dex, can Drone Controller actually work on Missile drones or did they intend it not to work on them?

>> No.30285011

it radiates! it glows! it can do both! these are the miracles the stem from the dark age of technology!

>> No.30285048

I'll consider it but I'm looking for a big centrepiece model. The only reason I asked which is better is because I like both units equally from every other perspective. If a wanted to be competitive I wouldn't be playing mono-khorne daemons.

>> No.30285265

I actually think mono-khorne can be pretty competitive, but if were just talking about models that get my panties wet, I think souls grinders and khorne juggernauts are pretty dope (the herald in the pic isn't perfect but I like the Idea of using alt bodies in order to avoid khorne chicken legs)

>> No.30285613

I'm currently doing an escalation league hitting 1500 this month with monokhorne daemons.

I'm 14/2. It started to go downhill after 1k but I even managed to beat a grey knight player in a check match.

Bloodletters are often seen as bad, but that's comparable to plaguebearers and seekers which are amazing cost/value wise. Bloodletters are good, just not the best choice in the codex.

Skarbrand does as he pleases. Heralds with a greater blessing can punch anything to death with a charge, and flesh hounds with karanak leading them shuts down psych attacks all the time.

Soul grinders are good because their hard to get behind and must be delt with, all while they have high saves.

AV14 is difficult to deal with, but just walk across the field and grinder punch that bitch.

All my games have been "tabled" or turn 5 concessions (including my two losses)

You got to get off your ass and walk across the table and murder everything.

The best part? I don't slow the game down with all that psyker rolling bullshit. Talk about a time waster

>> No.30285648

It doesn't work, it's in the FAQ.

>> No.30285732

So I decided to dust off my old SW army, are Rhinos really as worthless in the current game as most make it seem?

If so... is there any point in kitting them out as Razorbacks and trying to match the old paintjob, instead or should they just go back in storage?

>> No.30285884

I'm looking at the FAQ, it doesn't say?

>> No.30286313

You either need a skarbrand aura or heralds in my experience. Bloodthirsters are better because they WILL close the gap. While flying they're hard to hit but can't be ignored, while your troops are 6" closer. Best case he slaughters everything, worst case you payed 250 for a whole turn of movement. Don't ever give him upgrades, he's sweet enough nekkid

>> No.30287242

>torpedo head
Are Bloodletters all really smart or what?

>> No.30287273

I've never seen a techpriest who's screens, lenses or filters weren't green or red. Either goes.

>> No.30287602

+ HQ +

* Rune Priest
2x Biomancy/Divination/Telekinesis, Chooser of the Slain, Melta Bombs, Rune Sword, Warlord (*)
* Power Armour
Bolt Pistol, Frag & Krak Grenades

+ Elites +

* Wolf Guard Pack
* 5x Power Armour
Combi Melta, 4x Combi Plasma, 5x Frag & Krak Grenades, 5x On foot, 5x Power Armour, 5x Power Sword

+ Troops +

* Grey Hunters Pack (5 bodies, plasma gun, lasplas razor) x 4

* Grey Hunters Pack (8 bodies, mark of the wulfen, wolf standard, melta gun, power sword, rhino)

+ Fast Attack +

* Land Speeder Squadron
* Land Speeder
Multi-melta, Multi-melta

* Land Speeder Squadron
* Land Speeder
Multi-melta, Multi-melta

+ Heavy Support +

* Deimos Pattern Relic Predator (FW)
Plasma Destroyer, Searchlight, Smoke Launchers

* Deimos Pattern Relic Predator (FW)
Plasma Destroyer, Searchlight, Smoke Launchers

>> No.30287791

A Bloodthirster is always preferable to a DP for an HQ option. DPs should always be in heavy support, never HQ.

That being said, give the bloodthirster two greater rewards for staying power. Give a lesser reward if you have the points for an etherblade, as it gives him a master-crafted weapon AND an extra attack for having two specialist weapons. If you roll poorly on the Greater Rewards, say getting 3+ armor when he already has it, swap it out for the blade of blood so that he can get Rampage as well.

>> No.30287905

I've also found mono-khorne to be pretty powerful.

In my case bloodcrushers have been extremely useful, despite their points cost. Putting Karanak in a bloodcrusher squad not only gives them rage, but also gives them 4+ DnW and allows them to scout alongside the dogs, getting them up the field that much faster.

Deep striking bloodletters is also very effective at making marine players shit themselves, especially when you have an icon in that bloodcrusher squad for pinpoint deep strike accuracy.

Skull cannons are also pretty great. Good armor, cheap, and gives assault grenades which is essential in this type of setup.

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