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[ERROR] No.30163842 [DELETED]  [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

If thunder warriors > space marines in combat. Who the fuck was the emperor fighting on Terra to warrent such psychopaths? Did i miss some fluff?

>> No.30163894

Thunder Warriors were basically the Space Marine prototypes. Physically superior, at the cost of basically being a bunch of roided-up psychopaths, most of whom wouldn't live long after the wars ended in any case due to their bodies being fucked.

Space Marines were the streamlined production model. Less horsepower, but far more versatile and stable.

>> No.30163921

It was age of Strife shit yo, Technho-Barbarians, Psyker lords known as Witch Kings ruled over masses and more besides such human concerns existed on Terra

>> No.30163948

IIRC they mention a genocidal warlord who controlled the entirety of India and basically turned most of it into a concentration camp while he sorted out who was genetically pure by his own mad standards

>> No.30164007

so uh... pretty much emps?

>> No.30164035


>> No.30164045

Hey now, that Indian guy was a RIGHT WING EVIL FASCIST.

Emps is a LEFT WING GOOD NOBLEBRIGHT SOCIALIST, he freed mankind from the tyranny of Christianity.

>> No.30164057

I see the Emperor as basically the winner of a sort of Highlander situation. When the thousands of shamans reincarnated, they didn't reincarnate into one being, but several, but many. The Emperor had to slowly hunt them down and kill them to capture their gestalt souls and add their power to his own. It wasn't until 30th/31st Millennium or whenever the Great Crusade started that he was able to finish the job.

>> No.30164087


That's not actually true. You're right about the reincarnating into many beings part: The others were the Perpetuals.

However, the Emperor was fairly cool with the Perpetuals, as long as they didn't get in the way. He's spoken with Ollanius Pius before, and after he went:

> "I just want to live a normal life."

The Emperor answered - "My dear friend, you'll have as many of those as you want."

>> No.30164111

This, though I am pretty sure most fluff that I have read has always added the "may" before saying that they were stronger than space marines.

During the age of exploration space marines were also encouraged to become educated, the idea being that they would eventually finish their conquest and have to move on to being a member of society, Thunder warriors were generally incapable of such a life and therefore not suited to the emperors final plans.

>> No.30164114

Think for a moment.

Thunder Warriors ran around with metal plates and fucking ancient laspistols.

They were technobarbarians.

Space Marines ran around with the finest Martian military technology.

>> No.30164123


I haven't read the Outcast Dead, but I have to ask: Why were there still Thunder Warriors running around in 30K? Shouldn't they all have been dead by then?

>> No.30164126


Picture related.

>> No.30164128


The Imperials only kill mutants for having non-human genes. They don't kill people for having human genes.

>> No.30164129

They were spacebarbarians?
>ibn4 muh wolves

>> No.30164130

The other factions had their own proto space marines, plus powerful psykers and all sorts of crazy shit left over from the dark age of technology.

And it was all taking place in a terrifying post apocalyptic wasteland.

>> No.30164140

The Emperor made millions of Thunder Warriors. Possibly billions.

There had to be at least ONE Thunder Warrior who managed to survive long enough. There's more than enough life prolonging tech in the Imperium.

>> No.30164142

>Did i miss some fluff?

>> No.30164152

There were a small group of them using some sort of cobbled together tech to prolong their lives. It might have had something to do with stealing geneseed. I can't remember now.

>> No.30164160

I never saw much "may" it always was they were but they didn't last as long, we unsuitable for anything but constant war until they died and sometimes had to be put down because they were that unstable

Marines currently are weaker but much more stable, long lasting and generally useful other than as shock troops

The perfecting of the balance for marines came about during the golden age of technology because emps had the time and need of it

>> No.30165520


You're thinking of Cardinel Tang, he's mentioned a number of pre-heresy novels and in The Last Church

>> No.30165615

Shang Khal, Nathan Durme, Kalagann, Techno-Barbarian Lords and powerful Psyker chieftains Hard men with equally hard armies.

Consequentially, the ancestors of the Imperial Guard called "The First 100" named since they were the first 100 regiments of the Imperial Army came from normal human regiments from various sides of the Age of Strife who were hard enough to survive the AoS

>> No.30166800

My superior intellectual brethren.

>> No.30167889

If that's how you've been reading the fluff, you're an idiot.

>> No.30167968

Look where you are, then try to ask that question again.
For top kek's sake

>> No.30167996

Do you even understand the meaning of any of the words you're typing?

>> No.30168003


>> No.30168033

I heard he once marooned the Emperor on Alpha Ceti V

>> No.30168036

Yes, i do.
We'Re on 4chan, a place where there is debate for debate'S sake, where people troll each other about totally trivial things and who are butthurt if someone corrects them, because mommy and daddy never taught them to take critique.
For the Emperor.

>> No.30168086

Debate is one thing, but you can stop being intentionally any time you like.

>> No.30168100

>intentionally obtuse*

>> No.30168317

>Space Marines were the streamlined production model. Less horsepower, but far more versatile and stable.
I've thought about statting thunder warriors for deathwatch since a couple of my players are really into the HH-era and from time to time I've considered that maybe in addition to their comparatively unbalanced stats (S/T bonus, possibly WP/Fel reduction with some insanity to start with) the thunder warriors should possibly have some of the space marine organs withheld to represent the fact that these guys really were first-off-the-line prototypes not intended to be full-fledged space marines, rather than just being "strong space marines with extra nutty"
>no sus-an membrane: Thunder Warriors just had to eat the damage they took and live with it or die, no livesaving suspended animation
>no mucranoid: they weren't intended to fight in space
>no melanchromatic organ: they weren't intended to fight in other star systems
>no omophagea: either it wasn't ready yet or the Emperor didn't introduce it to the TWs to keep them more tractable
>progenoids: as far as I'm aware these just didn't exist in the TWs
>black carapace: they have one as far as I'm aware, but as a prototype it might be stiffer, less enabling of free movement (possible incurring a minor AG penalty) and be unable to link with any armor past the MkI.

>> No.30168382

I think Christianity was long gone by then. They did mention some church dedicated to a rock that fell from the sky, or some such silliness, but that was it.

>> No.30168476

>While the Eldar prove an elusive foe, too cautious of loss to confront openly, the champions of Humanity have proven a thorn in the side of the Suhbekhar Dynasty. So formidable have the Space Marines proven that some amongst the Court of the Hollow Sun believe they represent a supreme evolution of the human genome. Some even hold them to be an entirely separate species, one deliberately created, perhaps even by the prescient Old Ones.

-Outer Reach

Emperor confirmed to have used Old One technology to create the marines.

>> No.30168852

Or, maybe he sperged so hard, he shat Mini-Mes.

>> No.30168965

>It's Necron time!

No, Phaeron, no!

>> No.30168989

The church was the last one because by that point Emps has pretty much taken over all of Terra and burned that shit to the ground with his army of mutant abominations.
For fun, try reading that short story immediately followed by some of Lorgar's shit to see that the priest was right and it was Emperor's hubris that doomed humanity.

>> No.30169051

Then it's bug time!

>> No.30169129

To be fair, if you wake up after millions of years with absolutely no knowledge (presumably) of Big E and how he made them, it's not exactly a big leap of logic to think that Space Marines are a different species.

>> No.30169270

and since they are fighting you it is also not a leap to think they were made with help from your nemesis

>> No.30169342

Thunder Warriors: Prototype Model

Adeptus Custodes: Limited Edition Hand Crafted Luxury Model

Adeptus Astartes: Production Line Model

Primarchs: Blinged out "Only a few in existence" top of the line model with gold lined exterior

Grey Knights: Platinum Edition Limited Production Ver. 2.0

>> No.30169394

Oh, I forgot:
Sisters of Battle: Economic and fuel-efficient German Model
Stormtroopers: Cheap knockoff Chinese model

>> No.30169422

pretty sure whatever they were fighting wasn't as strong as the shit the Marines faces on a daily bases

but TW's were prototypes made from the Emperor's genes (only other guys that had that are the Custodes and maybe the Grey Knights) so they were more powerful but weren't as good as their marine counterparts for the emperors various missions after the Unification wars.

>> No.30169434

>Adeptus Astartes: Production Line Model
Kinda sad to see humanity's greatest described so meagerly, but I guess they're being described in the context of pretty lofty heights.

>Adeptus Custodes: Limited Edition Hand Crafted Luxury Model
Are the Custodes that much better than regular chapter Astartes? Are they "made" any differently or are they just much more carefully selected and even more well-trained?

>Grey Knights: Platinum Edition Limited Production Ver. 2.0

My question about Custodes "production" process makes me think - are there any books by BL or whoever which deal mostly or even partly with the main character(s) becoming a space marine? Would be cool to follow some jungle kid being taken from his planet and becoming an Astartes step by step.

>> No.30169482

>Grey Knights: Platinum Edition Limited Production Ver. 2.0


>> No.30169529

>Are the Custodes that much better than regular chapter Astartes? Are they "made" any differently or are they just much more carefully selected and even more well-trained?

I always thought of them as having their organs specifically tailored after the individual, taking much more time to grow and adapt into them.

Perhaps having it undergo further tests and having a higher standard on them to avoid chaos corruption. After all don't want one of the custodes suddenly going all khorne and chopping of the emperors head.

>> No.30169546

>imperial guard: public mass transit model

>> No.30169562

>Are the Custodes that much better than regular chapter Astartes? Are they "made" any differently or are they just much more carefully selected and even more well-trained?
yes to all. A handful of them managed to decimate the Gol Vorbak and the possessed marines only took them down through sheer numbers. As a last fuck-you one of them threw his guardian spear so hard it exploded out of a marine's back and took most of his torso with it. Constantin Valdor even dropped pre-heresy Horus in a fight.

>are there any books by BL or whoever which deal mostly or even partly with the main character(s) becoming a space marine?

Sons of Dorn and Space Wolf both deal with mai ncharacters becoming marines, Angels of Darkness has it as a side plot, Damnation Crusade (comic) has it as a recurring plot, On Mournful Wings (a short story) chronicles the trials of a space marine candidate.

>> No.30169568

Space marines a made by shoving organs into some kid.
Custodians are made by hand tailoring their DNA to the custodian template making each one a unique investment.

>> No.30169576


That book was so bad...

"I am the FIRST Thunder Warrior!"

wait... did you hear that? It was the sound of no one fucking caring.

>> No.30169588

>Constantin Valdor even dropped pre-heresy Horus in a fight.
There's no source on it.

>> No.30169614

Chaos Space Marines: jetted out off road customized fun edition

>> No.30169630


I hear this but they were getting dropped like Orks by the Thousand Sons

>> No.30169697

>Sisters of Battle: Economic and fuel-efficient German Model
That means Sisters of Battle would beat Space Marines in all technical aspects though. Try Japanese or something.

>> No.30169704

Makes sense, based CUSTom-made CUSTodes hhhhehehehe.

...I'll show myself the door, and maybe have a look at those books/that comic/short, thanks.

>> No.30169735

> Mc Neil's writing

>> No.30169949

I thought I had one but you're right, I can't find it, so nevermind that bit.
The Sons were in serious overdrive in that fight though. One of them was remote-piloting a fucking Titan and making it fire giant tongues of psychic flame out its hands If the odds hadn't been stacked so ridiculously against them (small legion vs the much larger space wolves, plus custodes, plus sisters of silence, Magnus sitting out 99% of the battle and sending away their space forces, getting attacked with almost no warning, plus Tzeentch screwing with them to make sure Magnus hit just that right amount of despair to give in) who even knows how Prospero might have ended. Then again, half the reason they were as pumped up as they were was that Tzeentch kept giving them more and more rope to hang themselves with.

Wonder what the rest of the Heresy might have looked like if Magnus had taken Tzeentch up on his initial offer and gobsmacked the Wolves' fleet before it even exited the warp.

>> No.30169999

Thousand Sons are best sons.

>> No.30170053

like most of the plot it could be explained with
>he farsaw it
>he choose the path of sacrifice to ensure hope would remain

>> No.30170093

>Wonder what the rest of the Heresy might have looked like if Magnus had taken Tzeentch up on his initial offer and gobsmacked the Wolves' fleet before it even exited the warp.

In the eyes of the Emperor, he was already the Great Betrayer and worst of all oathbreakers. It would only cement this truth earlier.

>> No.30170116


How would that make the situation worse for the Sons? Oh right it wouldnt.

>> No.30170128

It could have also spared us the SW faggotry.

>> No.30170296

The Church was clearly heavily influenced by Christianity, but yes, it was to a sacred rock.

I still like that the Priest Was Right.

>> No.30170404


>mfw Uriah said nope and stayed in the Church

A manly, manly tear was shed.

>> No.30170782

A prime example of the nobility of the Ultramarine! Look at how he defends the wounded Dark Angel from a deathblow. Is there any other chapter as heroic as they?

>> No.30171425

I think a better question would be, how would this affect the space wolves?

I mean, look at the deathguard. One dip in the warp and they came out nurgle. Just imagine what Tzneetch would fo

>> No.30171681

An entire legion of Horos?

>> No.30172120

9/10ths of the fleet wiped out, with a few handfuls being tossed about and mutated by the warp to leave a skeleton crew maintaining the Fang as the last of the Wolves.

What's really damning during the Hersey is the loss of the Custodes and Silent Sisters who now won't be there to help defend Terra, meaning the Fists, BAs, and Scars take a lot more casualties trying to hold the palace against traitor legions that now include an almost fully-intact 1k Sons, barring perhaps a few loyalists struck down by daemon-Magnus in an Istvaan-syle massacre.

Post-heresy, the Battle of the Fang ends in a massive curbstomp of the last few Wolves by a vengeful Magnus rather than the pyrrhic victory of destroying their plan to create successors.

With the loyalist Legions badly weakened and one of the nine annihilated entirely there are even fewer space marines to go around and them Imperium's future looks a whole lot more bleak.

>> No.30172401

The Battle of the Fang was even less than a Pyrrhic victory if you ask me.
Magnus got bitch slapped by a single Marine, lost almost all of his Spire Guard, his Marines got fucked badly (all by a hilariously low number of wolves), his fleeing fleet got dispersed and there was actually no proof that the wolf was anywhere near fixing the gene seed anyway. And he sacrificed his allies to do all of this.

>> No.30172511


Look at the qt 3.14 bird lady with her twisted second face and beak teeth.

>> No.30172514

...I think I may have missed this before, but...why does Tzeentch have tits?

>> No.30172574

>Adeptus Custodes: Limited Edition Hand Crafted Luxury Model

Actually the Custodes were probably the Thunder Warrior tech perfected, while the Space Marines are a completely different but related tech based on the Primarchs. So like Ferraris and motorcycles.

>> No.30172576


It's a mutated woman, son.

>> No.30172668

It's a Greater Daemon of Tzeentch. It can be female if it so chooses. Are you going to tell a Lord of Change what to be?

>> No.30172680

Except not at all

Magnus fought the best the SW had to offer and killed them

Spire Guard was expendable to begin with

Yeah, you know, that tends to happen when you attack one of the best fortresses, or fortresses in general

Nothing of value was lost in the retreat

And that was the only chance they had to solve the problem anyway

>> No.30172808

His attack was laughable still.
And wasn't his fleet like completely dispersed after the attack? As in "the TS are so fucking dispersed everywhere they are not a viable threat anymore, until they regroup which will take a long time"

>> No.30172869

They already knew that, they had gathered what they had after prospero to cripple the sw on the long run, I don't see the problem really, it all went like they wanted

>> No.30173034

So you're saying their fleet complete dispersal is what they planned all along? I didn't understand it like that, but I could easily be wrong.
Then their victory was a Pyrrhic one, but I still stand that their attack was laughable and that Magnus got bitch slapped is even more hilarious.

>> No.30173082

Not so much planned as EXPECTED, the only thing that got wrong was the dude managing to warn the rest of the chapter

>> No.30173191

>Thunder Warriors: Prototype Model
I usually describe them to people new to 40k as "Backcountry Meth Lab Astartes"

>> No.30173274

There are only 2 in Outcast Dead. They "survived" by messing with their gene seed. As far as they know, they are the only survivors of the Emperors purge. And even if other escaped too, they are long dead by now.
In the end they gain the gene seed of a Luna Wolf

>> No.30173357

yeah the book was just massive wolf wank

>> No.30173375

Just straight up world conquest.

>> No.30173380

>massive wolf wank
This is literally anything the wolves are in.

At least the Ultras got their fluff slapped around by McNeil.

>> No.30173448

that gave me a good chuckle

>> No.30173514

I'm always offput but how wrong those videos get the canon though.
>Emperor surprised about the Inquisition when he created it
>I never created the Grey Knights

>> No.30173519


>> No.30173667


>> No.30173686

No of a 1k son and 3 world eaters 1 emp child I think
The luna got away - wolf hunt audio

>> No.30173722

Back to /pol/
It was clearly Christian based
Btw McNeil has said the setting was the isle of Skye

>> No.30173793

But they all got butchered, except the Luna Wolf who dissapeared. So I assumed that he was taken by the 2 Thunder Warriors

>> No.30173829

>barely manage to survive because of luck while defending the best fortress outside of Terra from an assembly of morons and a few elite CSM that were low on numbers, losing every important char and the ability to get successors in the process
>massive wolf wank

>> No.30173905

>are there any books by BL or whoever which deal mostly or even partly with the main character(s) becoming a space marine? Would be cool to follow some jungle kid being taken from his planet and becoming an Astartes step by step.
The Space Wolf Novels, but the SW process is unique both biologically and in terms of how they are trained .ie they aren't trained at all. It is also much, much faster than the normal process due to leaving out stuff like how to use a boltgun and the fact that they have no initiate phase.

>> No.30174081

As yes, Indian Hitler from the year 28,501. Good guy once you got to know him. And we sufficiently genetically awesome.

>> No.30174713

I can see the 'are you frustrated' meme face being a chaos mutation.

>> No.30174921

>Are the Custodes that much better than regular chapter Astartes?

Yes in every respect EXCEPT for one; each one fights as an individual. Space Marines fight as a unit; they're indoctrinated with that brotherhood nonsense. The Custodes are all individual experts, totally self focused and reliant.

So while they're much stronger and better individually Space Marines have an advantage when they fight in groups.

The analogy used in the books is "Lions vs Wolves". The Custodes are the Lions and the Astartes are the Wolves.

>> No.30174957

SoB are smaller and less powerful, but more cost-efficient and reliable. Plus they never ever give up unlike Space Marines who flip to chaos every time they encounter a daemon.

>> No.30175015

the 4th one seems to implied he forgot he gave the order to make them

but yeah the later ones are turning to crap

>> No.30175032

Ohaio Carnac-kun!

>> No.30175068

By that same logic. Thunder Warriors are crocodiles.

If you get in the water, you're dead. Outside the water, crocodiles are pretty much useless. Sure they can catch a human, but you won't see a crocodile on land taking out wildebeasts.

>> No.30175075

It's been a while since I read the Space Wolf books, but basically they start by rounding up a bunch of teen who died in battle. Then they give them all a special drink which rewrites their DNA. Then they get dumped off in the woods somewhere.

The weak ones become feral and turn into werewolves. The stronger ones survive and make it back to the Fang. There is a part of the books where the initiates are doing bolter practice, so there is some amount of training involved. But a lot of it is handwaved by "memory engines" that just download everything the marines need to know into their heads.

This books was also written long before we got introduced to Wolfy McWolferWolf the Wolf Wolf.

>> No.30175097

Actually that's a pretty good metaphor, even though the wolf/lion one is off since lions hunt in packs too. Wolf and like, tiger might be better.

>> No.30175112

>Thunder Warriors are crocodiles.

I have some terrifying news for you anon.


>> No.30175122

warhammer 10k when?

>> No.30175141

>The weak ones become feral and turn into werewolves.

It's not even that, it's the ones who have the right genes. Which I guess is it's own test of strength.

>But a lot of it is handwaved by "memory engines" that just download everything the marines need to know into their heads.

That's the basic hypno-indoctrination that every marine gets during the scout training. Space Wolves just skip the scout part, and the organs all go in basically at once if the subject survives the Canis Helix rather than piecemeal over a decade or so.

>> No.30175145

>Emperor confirmed to have used Old One technology to create the marines.

That... actually makes sense.

>> No.30175153


I can't believe no one mentioned "Space marine" by Ian watson, it is literally the story of three young recruits becoming space marines.

Read it, it is amazing, it has squats...

>> No.30175158

>are there any books by BL or whoever which deal mostly or even partly with the main character(s) becoming a space marine? Would be cool to follow some jungle kid being taken from his planet and becoming an Astartes step by step.

There is an old book called Space Marine by Ian Watson that has this with Imperial Fists recruits. It's supposed to be quite good.
There is another called Sons of Dorn, also about Imperial Fists recruits. I read about half and got bored.

>> No.30175205

Those Dark Angles are always up to something.

>> No.30175305

>Dark Angles

>> No.30175401

forged in the same furnace of war mind

>> No.30175404

I've always looked at it like this.

Thunder Warriors were shock troops. They were built with one purpose in mind, point and shoot. You aimed them at an enemy and just threw them at them until they weren't there anymore. They weren't subtle, they were a blunt force weapon that you simply hammered away with until the job was done.

Space Marines were a less powerful, much more malleable fighting force. They were created to deal with any mission type you could throw at them, with varied tactics, armaments, and strategies. They were also much more refined than Thunder Warriors, leading to much more stability and streamlining.

>> No.30175911

So basically, thunder warroirs are standard calculators, and Adeptus Astartes are Excel?

>> No.30175932


Fuck that noise, what 'book' was that in?

>> No.30175950

Yeah, he's still going to die when super heretic Horus vaporizes him.

>> No.30175998

It was Tuesday.

>> No.30176019


If that is your threshold for outrage, don't read anything else from the Horus Heresy.

>> No.30176200

>thunder warriors > space marines
Not sure if possible. They were only power armoured above the waist.
To answer the question of who they were fighting. Degenerate mutant psychopathic cyborg heretic daemon tainted roid raging mad max barbarians.

>> No.30176321

The War Hounds, when the Emperor was first making the legions, were tasked with straight up murdering the last Thunder Warrior holdouts. The impression we get from it is that they only prevailed because of teamwork and took massive casualties.

>> No.30176346

I don't.

What the fuck is wrong with these people?

>> No.30176395

Well impressions are impressions and that is no reason to come to "power level" conclusions.
The simple answer is space marines clashing with like-space marines is a brutal confrontation that results in lots of casualties because they are equally matched.

>> No.30176446

>hey I need you to go murder your predecessors that accomplished all of the tasks I gave them because I made a better version
Man, space marines are kinda fucking retarded.

>> No.30176474

That same group of Space Marines themselves turned traitor so go figure.

>> No.30176491

If I recall it was something like five space marines died for every one thunder warrior.

>> No.30176495

I say impressions, but there's quotes from Kharn's scout sergeant to back it up that I lack, but sans a cite I can obviously not use that as my argument point.

>> No.30176538

It fits in with the Emperor. Here we have a guy that every few hundred or thousand of years would start a new religion to wipe out the old one, a guy who loves to create things and new kinds of people and betray them to destruction.

The only way in which the Emperor's actions don't fit is if you go into 40k automatically looking for him to be some sort of ultimate good guy, in which case you're on crack.

>> No.30176542

>you've nearly accomplished the goal given to you by the Emperor
>he's disappeared back to Terra and doesn't tell anyone what he's up to
>Horus tells you he's going to betray you
This makes the World Eaters look perfectly reasonable for going traitor.

>> No.30176557

I'll take your word for it but really spaces marines biffing each other is always by the skin of their teeth that one prevails unless they are outnumbered or ambushed in a trap.

>> No.30176608

He is an ultimate god guy
>well not really there are many layers of the Emperor conspiracy
>many conclusions can be made to his exist origins
>but no one is supposed to know about this.

>> No.30176754

I'm guessing you haven't read the outcast dead

>> No.30176839

>Addition of these aftermarket parts voids your warranty.
>Removal of the factory limiters voids your warranty.
>Adjustments beyond factory approved levels voids your warranty.
>Please enjoy your Heresy responsibly, and only use your Chaos Space Marines within the hellish landscapes of the Warp.

>> No.30178159

At least, they made Pius more than a myth to encourage Guardsmen into martyrdom.

He used to be a Terminator or Custodes, depending on which telling of the Horus Heresy you read. Now he's a Super Immortal.

But yeah, stay far far farrr away from Black Library's Horus Heresy

P.S. that series also features a Super Immortal besides Pius who killed Martin Luther King at the orders of an alien cabal. At this point I think the series is a competition between the writers to out-shit each other.

>> No.30178312

What book has Grammaticus doing that?

>> No.30178335

No, he was originally a normal guardsmen who stood up to a literal demi-god to protect the emperor. That's what made him a badass then GW fucked it up and made him a spehss muhreen.

>> No.30178359

>P.S. that series also features a Super Immortal besides Pius who killed Martin Luther King at the orders of an alien cabal. At this point I think the series is a competition between the writers to out-shit each other.
I actually like this part as it echoes back to the wacky days of Inquisitor Obi-Sherlock Kenobi or whatever.
The serious tone they'd been doing for the past few editions is marine-wank.

>> No.30178516

>Putting Inquisitor Obiwan Sherlock Clusseu and Alien Cabals/MLK asssassination in the same sentence.
Absolutely disgusting. A giant goofy pop culture reference is whacky. Having MLK killed by a alien cabal with a straight face is retarded.

The original fluff is from the 41st millennium that said "a legendary figure said to have...". But sure, if you believe the Munitorum, I guess he was. Meanwhile, the first fluff that actually showed the final battle between the Emperor and Horus in Realms of Chaos, he was a terminator. I'm personally more likely to believe an account of the Horus Heresy from an omniscient standpoint, than an account from 40k's Munitorum who thought Horus was defeated in a bunker.

True, we're just assuming that it'll be him.

>> No.30178722

Also the emperor didn't have full Genetech until he took luna
On top of that the humans on earth were often rad damaged - only date unification was there mass health programs to help with that and genocide of those too gone
But at the same time earth had its own ogryns in Mongolia (injoke about ogre kingdoms) and congenital dwarfs
Seriously I think they're setting up a unification era series of novels - emp vs chaos tainted kalagan, mad tang and power crazy dumme

>> No.30178751

Do you know how much of the Emperor's promethium is spent just so the Sisters can advance one mile?

>> No.30178858

Reliant Robins, only covered in skulls.

>> No.30178873

The emp is connected to humanity - he 'spider senses' what he needs to do so that humanity will survive in some distant past
The way 40k is written it's often suggested 40k is just another stage of humanity - probably ending with an ascendant emperor and a shattered humanity rebuilding around strong points like the legion home worlds - another reason for the emperor to let the primarchs be scattered
Also look at how the 2 thunder warriors behave - sick psychos on a level with curze at his worst, openly tolerating their men raping and murdering : not far off 40k chaos scum

>> No.30178882


You are showing your new, my friend.

>> No.30178908

Pretanis is the assassin

>> No.30178911



>> No.30178946

>Checking the wiki on some of the stuff I'm reading here because I'm still new to this.
>read about the time of ending, 13th Black Crusade, and the Golden Throne failing.

Shiiit. How fucked is the Imperium of Man? Or is there something that could pull their ass out the fire?

>> No.30179007

The second Emperor.

>> No.30179029

I imagine the plot would only actually advance if GW got incredibly desperate or bored, but there are a few random plot devices floating around in favor of the imperium

>> No.30179076

Orks: Politely referred to as a "Technical"
Tau: Bicycle.
Eldar: Your granddad's priceless 1963 Ferrari that he's only taken out of the garage twice in your lifetime.
Dark Eldar: Your granddad's priceless 1963 Ferrari with spinners, five-foot-high tripple-stack spoiler, undercarriage lights, body kit, double turbos on each of three superchargers, a heroin needle built into every handle and a wheel made of dildos.
Jokero: Geo Metro driven by professional clown. Somehow gets 60mpg.

>> No.30179123


>> No.30179152

Let's not forget our tame racing driver. Some say that if he ever travels at a speed less than 55 miles per hour, he will explode. And some say that he once had an illicit affair with a Lamborghini Imperiale. All we know is that he's called the Khan.

>> No.30179190

Hell no.

>> No.30179199


But aren't psychics hunted down like dogs by the sisters and such?

>> No.30179237

Well they might kill themselves when they become psychics. Otherwise they'd stop.

In any case, the Sisters typically don't bother with Sanctioned Psykers - the ones whom the Imperium has found to be strong enough to resist chaos on their own.

It's unsanctioned Psykers that the Black Templar and Sisters purge without a second glance

>> No.30179255

That's why they do it actually. Untrained psykers are inviting daemons or enslavers into the world. Trained ones are much safer.

>> No.30179260


On a long enough timeline, doesn't this mean that all Space Marines will become librarians and Grey Knights?

>> No.30179272

That passage is not common in-setting knowledge. As far as Imperial leaders are concerned, psykers are just mutants who happen to be particularly useful and dangerous.

>> No.30179302

>Directing anyone there
>Directing someone there as a citation.
If you want to prove that anon wrong, give him a real citation. Not /tg/'s collection of hyperbole and fanfiction or hyperbole to the point where it's indistinguishable from fanfiction.

>> No.30179341

You need to have the Gene-Seed and training to be a Grey Knight

>> No.30179385

I still think they should do comic book style, what if scenarios. What if the emperor died, what if sanguinius was named warmaster, etc. That'd let them release new models/stories without fucking the canon/having faggots cry about their race getting obliterated.

>> No.30179386

The Inquisitors who believe in the coming evolution are considered radicals. Not necessarily dangerous radicals, but definitely on the radical end of the spectrum

>> No.30179405

The Blood Ravens will steal the Thousand Sons' schtick and gift it to the entire Imperium.

>> No.30179772

Well yeah considering Magnus was the one pushing it - in scars it's revealed the khan was behind the librarius whereas Magnus wanted every marine trained as a psyker sorcerer
If the khan had been at nicea they wouldn't have got rid of the librarius - which begs the question wtf sent him to chondax at the time, since horus was not corrupted at the time. Cabal, lorgar agents , or a 3rd force that also changed Russ orders to a kill order
Maybe the alphas as they turned after ullanor yet b4 Nikea

>> No.30179821


I need to read more stuff. Only have the Space wolves oninbuses, the two sisters novels and audio books and not sure where to go from there.

>> No.30179824

Might have been something to do with the Khan giving zero fucks about anything. Nobody needed to manipulate him into not being there, he just decided he'd rather go off conquering.

>> No.30179861

>whereas Magnus wanted every marine trained as a psyker sorcerer

So what the non-psyker marines would just learn sorcery and incantation magic? That seems unsafe.

>> No.30179875

I've seen fluff (I couldn't give you a citation though) that implies the Emperor was accelerating the evolution, but didn't want humanity using psychic en masse until it was ready. The Horus Heresy slowed the evolutionary process by putting the Emperor on the throne.

>> No.30179946

Which is the problem. In the old Nikea, the Emperor only outlawed Sorcery, not psychic.

The distinction is that with sorcery, you are actively asking the chaos gods for help - and you don't need to be a psyker to be a sorcerer (though it certainly helps)

The Emperor really shot himself in the foot with the Imperial Truth, whether in his dealings with Lorgar, or because he couldn't give any explanation to Magnus why all that fancy sorcery was bad beyond "Cuz I said so."

>> No.30179962

>That seems unsafe.
Which is why that shit didn't fly with the big E.

>> No.30179996

Stop getting your information off Lexicanum. He specifically outlawed marine psykers/librarians at Nikea.

>> No.30180015

>The Emperor really shot himself in the foot with the Imperial Truth
Though the Imperium uses a variation of it, aggressively purging all knowledge of chaos. They've just learned from the Emperor's mistake that there are people on the top of hierarchy who need to know.

>> No.30180132

"Proposed that the education of human psykers to best serve mankind be made an Imperial priority. The conduct of sorcery would be ruled an unforgivable crime against mankind.

The compromise presented seemed to be what the Emperor was waiting for, and he declared it law without allowing any rebuttal." - Index Astartes.

That account doesn't make it sound like he outlawed psykers. Stop getting your fluff from Black Library

>> No.30180319

Nigga, it was the last church of the mormons.

>> No.30180368

Really cured that massive littering problem we had.Chop off a few heads and kills will make sure to ring the bin.

>> No.30181356

Rolled 6, 4 = 10

I thought it was catholics.

>> No.30181479

Why don't they make thunderwarriors anymore

>> No.30181499

Rolled 4, 5 = 9

>examples of Christianity

Let's just assume it's Christianity.

>> No.30182330

You know they aren't that mary sue?

They are just gene bulked shock troopers that are literally near psychotic and shell shocked and get old, sick, and pissed off.

Basically Space Marines = warrior monks and Thunder Warriors = super veteran soldiers.

Not exactly the same thing.

>> No.30182388

>Space Marines have an advantage when they fight as groups
That's called zerg rushing the enemy. Its just Astartes damage control.

>> No.30186346

I was surprised no one posted it before these two. I mean, come on, it's called "SPACE MARINE"!

On the other hand, it has Squats and Zoa... those Tyranid centaur things that got retconed, so maybe GW is trying to forget it.

>> No.30186582

As well as Ian Watson's scat-tastic fetishes

>> No.30188196

So the Black Templars are going extinct?

>> No.30188232


>acknowledging perpetuals

Fuck off, Abnett.

>> No.30188263

If you didn't manage to read the irony, you're an idiot.

>> No.30188275

Thanks for the post, Lilly Allen.

>> No.30188279


Muh Thunder Warrior Dex. Much wow, such flavor.

>> No.30188289

No It was some loosely christian inspired future religion based around a meteor because it would be silly for any present day religion to around in a recognizable form 28'000 years in the future

>> No.30188316

Pdf version

>> No.30188396


Jesus that's painful to read. The white on black is also bad.

>> No.30188412

I know, fuck me. Copy paste from dakka dakka worst decision.

>> No.30188438

all right, spaced out text but at least it isn't painful to look at.

>> No.30188460

Perpetuals and Cabal, the fucking shit that is making HH novels total shit when they used to be enjoyable low tier novels

Fuck Abnett

get him off all fucking novels involving SMs and back to writing Eisenhorn vs Ravenor or IG

>> No.30188472


Thunder warriors never went into space

>> No.30188482


zerg rushing is IG

>> No.30188485


>> No.30188495

tfw no Thunder Warrior mod for Space Marine.

>> No.30188535

they only sent out some Custodes and Silent Sisters as reinforcements to the Wolves, they didn't send ALL of them

>> No.30188544

Thunder Warriors were also mass produced so no
if anything, Custodes are prototype Primarchs

>> No.30188562


Malcador created the Inquisition not the Big E

>> No.30188575

On the Emperor's request.

>> No.30188583


>> No.30188585

it's more of Abnett forcing his shit down all the other writer's throats and BL allowing it because Abnett gives good head

>> No.30188599

I wonder if any of the original founders are still alive. I can kinda see Loken surviving long enough as a miscellanous deathwatch captain still fighting the good fight 10,000 years later. Or hell, they could be in Nemesis Tessera.

>> No.30188606


Garro, I reckon. Maybe Iacton as a dreadnought.

>> No.30188626

I would buy that Model, If that made something for Iacton and the Luna Wolves, I would be sold.

>> No.30188640

have the living loyalist Primarchs returning/recovering, the 13h Great Company of the Space Wolves accomplishing whatever the fuck they were supposed to be doing in the warp

Alpharius/omegon turns out to be a double agent shit and backstabs the chaos gods and alpha legion returns to the loyalists
Because the alpha legion turning jsut because they watched a fucking movies shown by a bunch of Xenos is stupid as fuck

>> No.30188663


>Iacton as a contemptor dread with the old Luna Wolves symbol on his shoulder, and the Deathwatch black on the rest.

>> No.30188677


mfw when Big E did not tell the Primarchs and SMs about Chaos because he told the Thunder Warriros and hey tried using sorcery against Big E to stop themselves from dying

so to Big E lesson learned is not to tell shit

>> No.30188680


>> No.30188713

What? The Thunder Warriors where made highly resistant to Psykers, there also are no recorded Psyker Thunder Warriors, primarily because their formation and organization is the same as the Imperial Army. Meaning, no Psykers.

>> No.30188723

Dunno about Alpharius and Omegon since there's been hints that there's a rift growing between the two since Omegon is starting to feel uncomfortable with Alph's end justifies the means attitude.

>> No.30188724


Mark 1 armor that thunder warriors use cannot operate in space

Cap lock just makes you look like an idiot

>> No.30188751

His reluctance not to use them probably stems from an earlier time when he thought jump-starting humanity's psyker-evolution early so they could have an army of psychics like the Eldar would be useful, and that ending up failing.

>> No.30188752


yes, in Pandorax one of them is still alive one, the most powerful psykers in GK history but

Fucking huge ending spoiler

Abaddon captured him, grafted a pariah onto his back and tortured cut off different parts of him so that he is basically useless

>> No.30188755

The Thunder Warriors captured a prison planet. Nice ad hominem though

>> No.30188762

Nope, from "the Serpent Beneath" I got the impression that they're both scheming against each other as well as against everyone else but the Legion, and Omegon is as machiavellistic as Alpharius.

>> No.30188778

not being pyskers does not mean not being able to use sorcery
Kor Phaeron and Erebus can use sorcery well enough

>> No.30188817


so you keep on saying
which prison planet did they capture?
when did they do it?
where did you read that?
they were basically all wiped out at he end of the unification war
the great crusade was the start of when the Imperium left the Sol system
so which planet did your thunder warriros capture?

>> No.30188848

Cerberus Insurrection (Unknown Date.M30) - The newly dubbed War Hounds were tasked alongside the Terran XXII Dracos Regiment of the Imperial Army to subdue the asteroid prison colony of Cerberus which had risen up in anarchic revolt in a state of near continuous rioting and mob violence. Initial attempts to impose order by Terran troops had been thrown back in disarray as it became apparent that among the insurrectionists was a renegade cadre of outlawed Thunder Warriors, long believed dead, calling themselves the Dait'Tar. With many of the Space Marine Legions already assigned to the first Expeditionary Fleets of the Great Crusade and en route to the stars, the Emperor Himself dispatched his War Hounds to Cerberus with explicit instructions to reclaim Cerberus colony and carry the Emperor's wrath to those that had defied Him. Within five hours, a signal was received from Praetor-Commander Calyb Hax of the XII Legion that Cerberus-Primary had been returned to Imperial Compliance. When asked by the leader of the waiting second wave how many prisoners to expect to transfer into custody, Hax replied that he had not been ordered to take any. The second wave of Imperial Army troops were tasked with the bleak task of clear-up operations in the wake of the War Hounds' assault, hunting down any survivors hiding in the warren of tunnels and passageways, of which there proved to be precious few. There were multiple reports of more than once coming across the hulking carcass of an armoured Thunder Warrior, often with three or four of his number in Astartes dead around him, of choke-points and defence posts turned into blood-soaked charnel houses and of scores upon scores of insurgents cut down from behind while fleeing in blind panic, their weapons abandoned. (From Betrayal/Massacre)

>> No.30188921

The way I read it with Nikaea and his webway project the Emperor was planning on the redundancy and elimination of psykers from the human species. At Nikaea he did not even to bother defining sorcery and instead simply banned all use of psychic power beyond the necessary functions of astropathic communication and navigation. With the completion of his webway even those would no longer be needed and with his euphoria killing Chaos mankind could simply abandon psychic power altogether. The benefits of not keeping psykers who are each of them a potential breach into the immaterium would outweigh the loss of mindbullets.
Remember it was prolific use and abuse of psychic powers that caused humanities previous fall in the first place.

>> No.30189142

>I can kinda see Loken surviving long enough as a miscellanous deathwatch captain
Can't be Loken.

When Abaddon found out Epithemeus was a surviving founder of the Grey Knights, "Now, which one are you? You can't be my erstwhile brother, I personally watched him die, and the rest of the Traitor Legionnaires are accounted for."

>> No.30189156

>Remember it was prolific use and abuse of psychic powers that caused humanities previous fall in the first place.
No, it was Warp Storms from Slaanesh making FTL nearing impossible, on top of the sudden appearance of Psykers (which had disappeared since the time of the shamans) that humanity had no idea how to deal with, on top of the Men of Iron rebellion.
(All of which could probably be directly or indirectly blamed on the Eldar partying Slaanesh into being.)

>> No.30189183

Keep in mind that Loken survived the encounter with Abaddon at the Dropsite Massacre, this is most likely what abbadabado is referring to.

>> No.30189221

Except that Abaddon knows that Loken became a founding member of the Grey Knights also means he knows Loken survived. The Emperor didn't create the Grey Knights and the Inquisition until the very end of the Heresy.

>> No.30189235

Loken dies by Tormageddon, you first heard it here.

>> No.30189634

More likely jealousy - Omegon is definitely the lesser twin whil alpharius gets to hang with horus etc
Also 3rd paradox maybe emperor winning without eventual stagnation

>> No.30189701

In Dune they still had Jews, who claimed to be faithfully following their faith as it was practiced by their ancient ancestors. They were of course practicing a completely different interpretation of the religion, which I suspect was the author digging a modern jews. Was he jewish?

Anyway, it'd have been kind of cool if that was a reference there but nooooo, can't have der juden due to being somewhat unrecognizable.

>> No.30189728

Pandorax? I thought that was a Dark Angels book. What are you doing there, Grey Knights?

>> No.30189755

It's Dark Angels and Grey Knights.
Sassmaster Draigo, Azrael, and Abaddon all share a cover.

>> No.30189767

Sucks to be him.

>> No.30189768

Frank Herbert identified as Buddhist.

>> No.30189786

The Imperial Guard were also there.
There was to be a victory celebration for their victory over the daemons held in honor of the Guard by the Grey Knights. Attendance was mandatory.

>> No.30189813

>There was to be a victory celebration for their victory over the daemons held in honor of the Guard by the Grey Knights. Attendance was mandato

Aww. Poor IG.

>> No.30189834

The Inquisitor-Acolyte (Though a full Inquisitor in practice since her master was killed early on) developed a soft spot for them over the last few months in the novel. She convinced Draigo to spend the extra time to mindwipe them instead.

>> No.30189843

>The Inquisitor-Acolyte (Though a full Inquisitor in practice since her master was killed early on)

Was she an Interrogator, or just a junior Inquisitor?

>> No.30189878

Junior Inquisitor I think, maybe an Interrogator.

In any case, by the war's end, even Draigo respected her enough to do her that favor, so I imagine she's not far off from her Rosette.

>> No.30189916

Fulgrim plans to use him to summon the avatar of Slaanesh to reality (The shota form)

>> No.30189925

The idea was catacahans would make ideal garrison settlers as the place was likely to be attacked in the future

>> No.30192563



>> No.30196369

Doesn't the Luna Wolf get recruited by the fledgling Inquisition? Or am I getting him confused with someone else?

>> No.30196566

Well there is some sort of Chaos daemon at Nicaea masquerading as various personages in Prospero Burns, so it was probably that that nudged Khan to give in to his inpulses and not attend

>> No.30197075

The War Hounds were the World Eaters before being renamed by Angron. So they met and fought a single Thunder Warrior amongst the Cerberus rebels, big deal. Still says nothing to prove that Thunder Warriors were still employed by the Emperor after his conquests were finished on earth.

The birth of Slaneesh was the end of the warp storms and the beginning of the great Crusade.
Psykers were discovered in M18 and fully used by M22 which was why they could have warp travel and expand, THEN be cut off from their expansions by warp storms which appeared for apparently no fucking reason. This coincided with the mass appearance of psykers all over the isolated holdings of the human empire which in turn led to psyker wars and loldaemons everywhere.
It's all in the timeline.

>> No.30197344

The birth of Slaanesh took thousands of years.
The reason why Slaanesh's birth caused the warp storms to disappear is because Slaanesh's gestation in the warp was causing them in the first place.

Slaanesh's birth was only sudden when compared to the other Chaos Gods

>> No.30197423

yfw according to a warp-vision in the Macharian Crusade book, the pleasure cults started appearing around the same time the Eldar got wind that DAoT was even a thing that was happening outside their borders and that the warp storms were caused by their 8000+ year long partying.

And it's highly likely psykers started suddenly popping up in vast numbers due to vastly increased warp activity.

Eldar think themselves guardians from chaos? Give me a fucking break.

>> No.30197505

Man, the Great Crusade happening right on the heels of the Eldar Fall always throws me for a loop for some reason. I dunno why, but I keep thinking it went Fall --> Warp goes derp --> human civilizations collapse --> Age of Strife --> Warp clears up again by itself --> Great Crusade. When obviously, this was not the case.

>> No.30197668

Nope. Warp Goes Derp when Pleasure Cults spread across the Eldar Empire -> Human Civilization Collapse -> Age of Strife -> The Fall/Warp Clears Up -> Great Crusade

>> No.30197739

So when, say, Fulgrim runs into Eldrad, he's meeting an Eldrad relatively fresh from watching his entire civilization as he knows it implode.

...hmm, maybe I should go read Fulgrim...

>> No.30199188

I think it's a more symbolic metaphor. Wolves are vicious pack animals, but when people think of lions, the common image is the male lion being fierce and regal, not the group of lionesses that do much of the actual.

Wolf and panther would be a good one, since Custodes are like James Bond x Bruce Lee + Space Marines.

And he took a bullet for the Emperor when they were storming Horus's bunker on Terra, according to the myth. But we know Horus didn't even go down to Terra during the siege, and the Emperor only brought Custodes and Astartes onto the Vengeful Spirit.

Before the new GK codex, there was actually a difference between psykers and sorcerers.

Considering the dumb knife-ear can't tell that Fulgrim's sword is a shard of his archenemy, that's the only way it makes sense.

>> No.30199895

Tonight, on Top Hammer.
Horus plays chess.
Guilliman writes a book.
And Ferrus Mannus drops a hammer.

>> No.30199981

>Considering the dumb knife-ear can't tell that Fulgrim's sword is a shard of his archenemy, that's the only way it makes sense.
No, that makes sense because there was strong slaaneshi magic countering Eldrad's farsight.

>> No.30199991

>Before the new GK codex, there was actually a difference between psykers and sorcerers.
There still is. The Ordo Malleus uses sorcery as a fire against fire thing. It's part of why they have so many traitors.
I guess it helps a little bit that they stick to wards with their sorcery.

>> No.30200703

Thunder warriors were stronger in combat than a regular space marine. They were the prototypes that the emperor used to see how far he could push the whole gene enhanced super soldier shtick, Needless to say he pushed it pretty far.

But You have to realize OP the age of strife was one where the emperor saw the other tyrants of terra and their techo-barbaric armies and decided to make soldiers even more fucking hardcore then them.

So thunder warriors we're born.

>> No.30202515

The GK codex says something along the lines of, "psykers and sorcerers are the same thing, the only difference is in the perception of people who don't really know what the fuck they're talking about."

Obviously I'm paraphrasing, but it does say that the Knights don't see a difference.

>> No.30204125

nice fake chest

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